Full Transcript for Gloria Ramirez: The Toxic Lady

sort of coagulopathy that's happening in cancer patients, right? 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:42.079 Yeah. 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:43.439 And how about an ABG? 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:47.680 She's gotta be an ABG for those who don't know, arterial blood gas. 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:50.160 Yep, it's gonna look at the pH, the pH of the blood. 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:51.439 So I think probably, yeah, again. 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:53.040 So some sort of metabolic derangement. 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:53.360 Yeah. 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:53.920 I agree. 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:58.319 Probably some some organ failure related to, you know, Mets. 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:03.839 So maybe some renal failure, some liver failure, maybe an infection, so some sepsis. 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:08.560 Uh, and then, you know, Kate, you said it's almost always pulmonary as well when they're chain stoking. 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:12.240 And, you know, we know, as you said, people get coagulopathic with cancer. 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:16.399 So did she have like a pulmonary embolism, a large plot in her lung, anything like that? 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:24.879 So before there's much time for the ER team to figure it out, Gloria goes into cardiac arrest. 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:25.759 Oh gosh. 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:32.319 The team begins resuscitation, she is intubated, she is defibrillated for an irregular heart rhythm. 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:36.399 And then that's when the case takes its first very strange turn. 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:40.319 Wait, okay, so she was in a shockable rhythm then. 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:49.199 Yes, I nowhere could I see whether it was like V fib or VTAC, but everywhere, all of the sources said she was defibrillated. 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:55.040 Interesting, because I would think if she maybe had like a clot or something, it would be like a PEA. 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:56.480 Like yeah. 00:05:56.879 --> 00:06:10.720 If the oxygen, the the breathing is driving her uh instability, yeah, that you would think it would be like pulsus electrical activity, which is not a shockable rhythm, despite what you may see on television, right? 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:11.519 Yes, yes. 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:16.319 So she gets intubated and she vomits, which okay, this happens. 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:17.040 We see it, right? 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:17.920 Yep, yep. 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:25.680 But the respiratory therapist notices a fruity garlic-like odor coming from her mouth. 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:26.959 Ketones? 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:27.920 Yeah. 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.800 But would we call ketones garlic? 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:31.519 Garlic? 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:32.079 No. 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:34.160 I would call that fruity. 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:35.279 Yeah, fruity. 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:45.439 And when they go to defibrillate her and they expose her chest, they note that her skin is oily almost as though it has a sheen to it. 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:46.319 Hold

on, wait. 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:49.279 I'm just thinking, like, would they just sniff in up her mouth? 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:53.199 Well, it must have been so potent that I was just gonna say it had to have been stanky. 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:54.319 I mean, let's be real. 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:59.439 How many times has a patient's mouth been opened for them to put a breathing tube in and the whole room can smell it, right? 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:00.959 Especially if very real. 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:04.000 Especially if someone's been like mouth breathing, like in distress. 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:05.279 Yeah, I'll give you that. 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:06.000 I'll give you that. 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:11.680 But yeah, usually, I mean, I get fruity fruity breath is sort of a text uh uh textbook DKA. 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.519 Yeah, like someone with uncontrolled blood sugar, very high blood sugar. 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:16.480 But garlic. 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:24.560 But I've I can't think of anything that would just that would cause a garlicky smell beyond eating garlic. 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:26.079 Eating garlic, yeah. 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.800 And then do you can you guys think of anything that would cause this like oily skin? 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:34.319 Besides having soaked in a bath with oils? 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:35.120 I don't know. 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:37.199 Did she put something on her skin? 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:38.560 Sweat glands. 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:40.720 That's uh like sebaceous. 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:42.879 Are you talking about are you thinking about sebaceous glands? 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:48.240 Common, like on the oil, just like releasing okay. 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:50.160 So you just think she's like sweaty. 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:52.800 Well, more than sweaty, but yeah, maybe I don't know. 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:56.720 Yeah, I think sometimes people's sweat is weird, yeah. 00:07:56.800 --> 00:08:03.839 And I think people do have weird like sweat gland syndromes, but I don't feel like you often just see that like on their chest. 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:07.120 Usually it's like they had issues like in their armpits or whatever, right? 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:10.959 Yeah, they're they're more like heated place, not not so much on the chest. 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:18.000 That feels weird, but you're right that like maybe some lotion, maybe something she applied something to her chest. 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.319 Okay, what's it uh emulsifier? 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:25.199 Okay, she rubbing some type of like chemical on her body to cure cancer, yeah. 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:41.360 That's what I'm thinking, or like taking a supplement as an RN starts an IV and draws Gloria's blood, she says she smelled ammonia, windex, and then something even stranger happens. 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:48.799 When she looks at the blood sample in the tube, there are white crystals in the blood sample. 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:49.840 Oh god. 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.080 What has this lady been injecting? 00:08:52.240 --> 00:09:00.879 So this is documented by the nurse and also corroborated by a medicine resident and an attending physician. 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:04.879 Okay, so when I think about crystals in the blood, I think about precipitation. 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:07.519 We because we know what precipitation is, right? 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:19.919 When you mix something like two liquids, yeah, chemical, it creates yeah, a chemical reaction and creates that's a solid solid within the liquid that's called precipitation. 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:26.720 What is she mixing in her blood that's we've all seen a lot of blood specimens, yes, right, in our time. 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:29.039 Have you ever seen crystals? 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:37.759 No, not in a blood sample, but do you think something was in her blood that mixed with the chemical in the tube that created precipitation? 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:42.799 Maybe because some of the two the tubes have like additive space to it. 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.159 It was like a bad tube or something, and then the nurse who drew the blood faints. 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:52.240 Oh god, oh god, this lady's been putting something in her body. 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:58.639 So I mean, at first I'm like, you know, is this is someone just not up for a code today? 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:00.960 You know, it's it's all just a little too much for them. 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.360 Well, what what smells like ammonia? 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:07.360 Well, so usually it would be cleaners, like you said, you said Windex, right? 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:11.279 So wind blas thingers, rodent urine breaks down into ammonia. 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:14.639 So whatever you when you smell like rat pee or something. 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:15.279 Oh god. 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:25.039 Um, and then intense exercise or low carb, high protein diets can cause your sweat or breath to carry an ammonia scent. 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:29.200 That makes sense because protein breaks down into ammonia. 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:45.919 Okay, so I'm like, okay, so maybe this nurse wasn't feeling well, maybe this was all just like too too intense, but then that medicine resident who was next to her and verified the the particulate in the blood sample, she said, I feel really dizzy. 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:47.440 She got really nauseated. 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:52.639 She walked out to the nurse's station, and as she gets to the nurse's station, she passes out. 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:53.919 What? 00:10:54.240 --> 00:11:03.519 What could you be exposed to that would make you I mean, unless she was like covered in some sort of chemical that's gonna chloroform? 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:06.320 Doesn't chloroform, you breathe it in, you pass out. 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:07.279 That's what I was thinking. 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:10.559 Yeah, yeah, but why would she have

covered herself and I don't know that's weird? 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:12.720 She's I'm like, is this lady a terrorist? 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:17.279 I'm thinking weird vitamins and mineral exposure. 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:23.919 Yeah, I mean, I think we had we definitely see a lot of patients who are taking weird supplements who have crazy reactions, right? 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:24.399 Yeah, yeah. 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:44.240 Because I think we talked about this in the big pharma episode that I think a lot of people think like, I don't want to take medicine, I don't want to be on medicine, but it's fine if I take these 24 supplements because they think their supplements are not prescribed, they're benign, and really we see these crazy reactions with them, specific, especially if you're taking multiple. 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:48.000 So, okay, you think she's taking something and it's causing some kind of weird reaction. 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:48.399 Okay. 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:50.480 That's a good yeah, maybe I'm not sure. 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:59.360 I mean, or there could be maybe we're just like blaming the patient, but maybe there's some other kind of like toxic or environmental exposure happening to the ER, right? 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:00.480 Or her home. 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:01.919 Okay, yeah, okay. 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:06.080 Or maybe the nurse and the med medical resident just didn't get lunch that day. 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:06.720 I don't know. 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:07.759 Blood sugar. 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:08.480 Okay. 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:13.360 Well, the situation escalates rapidly. 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:14.320 Oh gosh. 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:22.639 We end up with 23 people in the emergency room who have symptoms within 30 minutes of contact with this patient. 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:28.799 So these symptoms include dizziness, headache, respiratory irritation, tearing, nausea, and vomiting. 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:31.360 And many of them had to be hospitalized. 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:32.480 Sounds like a gas. 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:36.720 So then, as a result of all of these people getting sick, the ER is evacuated. 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:37.519 Oh, God. 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:45.120 With the exception of a handful of staff who are wearing protective equipment and they remain behind and they are still coding Gloria, right? 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:46.960 So still coding? 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:48.320 She hasn't been resuscitated. 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:50.000 She has not been resuscitated. 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:51.759 How long has this been happening? 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:53.840 They code her for 35 minutes. 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:54.399 Okay. 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:57.200 And does she achieve ROSC? 00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:00.879 She does not achieve Rosk, and she is ultimately pronounced dead. 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:01.519 Okay. 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:03.919 No return of spontaneous circulation. 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:04.240 Okay. 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:10.639 And in the meantime, though, the whole ER has is moving outside and they're like taking care of patients in the ER parking lot. 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:10.879 Yeah. 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:11.440 Yeah. 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:12.320 You know what? 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.000 Healthcare workers are heroes. 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:14.399 That's all. 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:16.080 Where was this again? 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.480 This is in California, Riverside, California. 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:19.200 Wow. 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:28.320 The medical resident I told you about, the second one who like fainted, she ended up spending two weeks at intensive care with hepatitis and avascular necrosis. 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:29.120 Oh my god. 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:29.840 What? 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:30.720 Yeah. 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:34.559 So you said your first theory was anthrax, right? 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:35.519 Oh yeah, right? 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:36.399 Colleen. 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:37.519 I said anthrax. 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:39.840 It sounds like a little quick for anthrax. 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:46.080 Anthrax is whether it's inhaled or contracted through the skin, it's usually one to seven days. 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:49.120 Inhalation can take up to 60 days for symptoms. 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:54.480 And you get mild food-like symptoms like fever, muss-like, and cough, and then you get severe breathing problems. 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:57.360 You might also get like rashes or blisters on your skin. 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:03.759 So it doesn't really sound like anthrax, but it does seem like the way it's being contracted feels very similar, right? 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:04.240 Yeah. 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:09.360 Like airborne or lady radiate, like, did she have like radiation? 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:10.799 Was she super radiated? 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:19.120 And she's she like was she actually like the radiate radiation was coming from her and exposing everyone to radiation? 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:22.879 Early signs, you get nausea, vomiting, headache, diarrhea. 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:23.759 Okay. 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:32.639 Then people feel better, and then they get bone marrow failure, GI distress, neurologic damage, fever, internal bleeding, fatigue. 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:34.559 Uh, but how long does that take? 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:37.200 It says usually it takes a couple of weeks. 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:39.440 So that's a no. 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:40.080 No. 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:43.519 Uh that's leaking poison. 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:45.279 What what color was she? 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.879 Like, was she was her skin like orange? 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:50.720 Was she like green? 00:14:50.879 --> 00:15:00.960 Like, what was I don't know, but I have to assume, given that we have all these details about the odor, the sheen, the breath, the the blood, the crystals and the

blood. 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:08.320 Yeah, that if it was something like she was orange or she was blue or she was yellow, that we would have heard about that, right? 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:10.720 I just feel like her liver can't be normal. 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:13.200 No, nothing's normal, clearly. 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:20.159 So after Gloria is declared dead, her body is isolated and it is transferred into an airtight container. 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:20.720 Uh-huh. 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:35.840 An autopsy is performed using strict hazardous material precautions, but they find no evidence of toxic, volatile, or hazardous vapors detected in association with Gloria's tissues, bodily fluids, or the ER air samples. 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:36.799 Yes, Colleen. 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:41.440 Oh does she have family that's also been presenting similar? 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:45.519 No, she has family, but no one else that has any of these symptoms. 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:47.759 You know who else didn't have any of these symptoms? 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:48.480 Who? 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:51.679 The people who transported her in the ambulance. 00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:54.480 Oh, something else is causing this. 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:57.440 Is she just the is she just a variable? 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:04.399 Is she like where where we thought it was coming from, but really it's like they ate the ER add from lunch? 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:05.120 All right. 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.799 Well, I think you kind of covered some of the the differentials here, okay? 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:10.559 The doctors and nurses are getting sick. 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:12.399 Some of them are sick enough to be hospitalized. 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:19.360 They're describing odors and visible abnormalities in the patient's blood, but there's no toxic chemical you'd expect to explain it. 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:30.720 So kind of the general theories are that there is something originating from Gloria, which you hit on, maybe a medication, a home, a remedy, metabolic product, or chemical reaction occurring within or around her body, right? 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:34.399 So they were hallucinating when they saw stuff in her blood. 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:36.639 At least three had a shared hallucination. 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:37.360 Maybe. 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:42.080 I mean, last week we talked about a shared psychosis. 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:44.559 Yeah, you were like, it's a psychosis. 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:46.159 Yeah, you believe that, Megan. 00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:49.360 So I don't don't say like, oh, shared hallucinations. 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:51.360 I really couldn't decide what to believe last time. 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:58.320 I will say though, when you kept saying they're trading sourdough, I was like, they're making sourdough, but you're right, it would be in the wheat, which would be transported. 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:01.440 Other theory is that there's something

originated in the hospital, like you said. 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:03.600 So maybe they're blaming her, but it's something else, right? 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:04.880 Because it wasn't in the EMT. 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:06.319 Family didn't experience this. 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:11.680 So maybe some kind of chemical contaminated IV solution or environmental exposure. 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:12.240 Yep. 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:17.200 Are there multiple things happening at once and it's just sort of like a perfect storm, right? 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:20.079 Like her illness explains some findings, but there's something else happening. 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:25.920 Or was this just a psychogenic response in response to an extremely stressful event? 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:30.880 But the the resident had avascular necrosis and hepatitis. 00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:33.039 No, two weeks in the ICU? 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:47.839 You guys might be surprised to learn that given that the majority of these patients were women, the official story and what many assumed at the time was that this was another mass psychogenic illness. 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:50.079 I'm tired of people blaming women. 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:56.319 So two scientists from California's Department of Health and Human Services interviewed 34 staff who'd worked in the ER that night. 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:02.480 They noted that those within two feet of Gloria were more likely to fall ill, and nearly all of those affected were women. 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:12.960 People who had skipped it that evening rather than those who had a full stomach were also more likely to have developed symptoms, which could be either they were processing something quicker, right? 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:16.960 Or it could be what Kate said, maybe they're all just hypoglycemic. 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:18.240 You know, I don't know. 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:26.160 They released a report that the incident was due to mass psychogenic illness or mass hysteria, but this was an unacceptable answer to people who were hospitalized with organ dysfunction. 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:26.799 Yes. 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:35.839 And Julie Gorczynski in particular, who spent two weeks in the ICU, the medical resident, she filed a six million dollar lawsuit against the hospital and coroner's office. 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:41.519 So the forensic science center at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, they're called in for like a second opinion. 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:41.839 Okay. 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:42.720 For her. 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:44.960 So you guys aren't buying psychogenic? 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:46.559 No, not one bit. 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:47.119 No. 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:48.880 Unless shrooms are involved. 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:50.720 Could they be exposed to shrooms? 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:51.200 Okay. 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:52.640 I was thinking shrooms too. 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:53.119 Yeah. 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:55.200 I mean, I think well, mold. 00:18:55.359 --> 00:19:00.559 Could they be exposed to mold that could be presenting like a shrooms, like environmental mold? 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:06.640 I mean, I think we talked about how a lot of like psychogenic illnesses, it's not the patient faking it. 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:08.799 It is a physical manifestation, right? 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:09.680 Something else. 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:14.079 But you don't usually see multi-organ failure and cardiac arrest from that, right? 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:28.640 You might have you might have like what they used to call pseudo-seizures, which is not an acceptable term now, but like you might have like seizure activity with a normal EEG or something, but you're not gonna be your heart is not gonna stop, you're not gonna be in V fib, VTAC, you're not gonna be in organ failure. 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:33.839 So yeah, I don't know if I really if I believe I think psychogenic illness is not an option for me. 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:34.400 No. 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:42.480 So the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Forensic Science Center became involved and they identified several substances in Ramirez's samples. 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:44.799 So this gets a little sciencey, Kate. 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:46.000 This is gonna be so up your alley. 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:46.480 Okay. 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:53.119 There was an amine, a derivative of ammonia that may have formed as her body broke down Tegan, which was an anti-nausea medicine. 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:55.839 And so that might explain the ammonia odor. 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:05.839 They also found nicotinamide, which is a B vitamin that is sometimes mixed into illegal drugs like meth and can cause euphoria. 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:12.640 But they couldn't figure out like why would she have been taking nicotinamide? 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:13.119 Right. 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:16.160 Because everyone's like, she doesn't take drugs, she's not doing drugs, right? 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:19.359 And her and the rest of her talk screen was normal, was clear. 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:19.759 Okay. 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:26.720 They also determined that she had been taking a lot of Tylol and codeine, which they said that could have helped, like contributed to liver liver damage. 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:30.480 But none of these findings really explain what happened. 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:30.960 Okay. 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:34.000 They found something much more interesting. 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:36.799 What they found was DMSO2. 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:43.200 So they were like, well, you know, DMS-04, that's toxic, but how did we get from O2 to O4? 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:44.640 And how did she get O2 in her body? 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.759 Oh, like a chemical reaction that's like this. 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:48.240 Yes. 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:59.839 They theorized the DMSO2 was a product of DMSO, and then they

theorized that DMSO2 converted to DMS-O4, and that's what caused her illness, but that her toxicity, I guess. 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.519 But the DMSO2 is what was found in her in her blood. 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:12.880 This all starts with DMSO, which is dimethyl sulfoxide, which is a liquid solvent derived from wood pulp that is found in hardware stores. 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:17.359 It used to be used topically for pain as well as anxiety. 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:26.960 Other indications included treatment of pain related to interstitial cystitis, antibacterial agents, cervical cancer treatment, and chemotherapy IV infiltration. 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:34.799 But the rise of this potential water drug was stopped suddenly when animal tests showed that prolonged exposure to DMSO altered the lens of the eye. 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:43.519 The FDA ceased clinical trials of the drug in 1965, though in 1978 approved a 50% solution of DMSO as a treatment for interstitial cystitis. 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:53.279 So for the most part, rarely this could be used for like painful urinary tract lesions, but otherwise it's it's been eliminated, not allowed, not used medically anymore. 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.720 People were still buying 99% DMSO at the hardware store. 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:58.240 It's like a liquid solvent. 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:09.200 So in 1980, the FDA had Actually, issued a warning to physicians to counsel their patients that, like, you shouldn't go to the hardware store, buy this, and use this to treat your pain and anxiety. 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:12.400 Well, this is a theory. 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:22.160 But people who were using who were using the DMSO to treat their pain and anxiety would report a garlic-like taste and also a slick sheen on your skin. 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:24.160 DMSO is renally excreted. 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:31.759 So if she's in renal failure for something else, it could cause it to accumulate in her body and she would have higher than normal levels. 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:34.000 She was totally doing this. 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:34.559 Okay. 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:35.839 But here's the problem. 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:39.119 This all sounds like it's this all setting up to be a good story. 00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.880 But just wait until I explain how they theorized this reaction occurred. 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:49.359 Okay, so they're saying that she actually was doing this or that what she was doing was creating this in her body. 00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:55.519 We have no proof that she took DMSO and her family says she didn't take DMSO. 00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:00.559 But this is what the scientists, when they're like, you guys didn't like that psychogenic illness theory. 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:02.000 Here's our scientific theory. 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:02.640 Okay. 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:06.799 But now how do we get from DMSO to DMSO4? 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:11.359 She was doing a couple of yeah, add some

O's. 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:13.599 She was doing some ozone treatments. 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.559 Whippets? 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:15.599 No. 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.839 So again, if you think about because ozone is O3. 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:21.839 You guys know that, right? 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:25.759 It's ozone, is that ozone is three oxygens. 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.160 That's why I don't know what ozone is. 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.359 Like the ozone layer? 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:31.680 Yeah. 00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:32.640 Oh, oh, sorry. 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:34.319 I thought I thought it was like a drug. 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:34.720 Yeah. 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:39.839 Well, actually, when you said when you said ozone, I thought you were talking about some sort of like, yeah, like hyperbaric oxygen situation. 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:41.680 Yeah, you mean so like ozone. 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.039 You said DNSO, which is one oxygen. 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:45.680 Yeah. 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:48.480 And then how does it get to DMSO4? 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:50.000 You add three oxygens. 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:51.519 See, why do you guys think you get it? 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:52.640 I'm too smart. 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:54.559 I didn't know that joke at all. 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:56.240 So it came back. 00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:57.680 You think the aliens abducted? 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:07.359 No, now it's like there's like it's there's like health trends that are like they're like do the ozone, like there's like oxygen bars, and you like you do the ozone. 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:08.240 Okay, okay. 00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:08.799 I got you. 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:09.440 I got you. 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:09.680 Yeah. 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:11.200 So this is a treatment people do. 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:15.279 I thought you were about to take this down a whole alien abduction angle. 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:15.759 No. 00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:17.759 She was abducted, went to space. 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:22.720 I was I was thinking still along the lines of like, what are some alternate treatments for cancer? 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:24.319 No, I don't understand that. 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:28.559 DMSO4 is a potential chemical warfare agent. 00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:37.599 When inhaled or absorbed through the skin, it causes dizziness, headache, convulsions, coma, lung injury, and bradycardia. 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:51.440 Of the 20 types of symptoms reported by the staff, from the fainting to the convulsions to Gorczynski's hepatitis, only one, nausea and vomiting, is not a symptom of dimethyl sulfate exposure. 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:57.440 So they're like, this DMS-04 is gonna would explain this. 00:24:57.519 --> 00:24:59.519 But again, how did we get to the DMS04? 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:14.559 So they theorized that when she arrested, she shows up to the ER, they first thing they do is her ABCs, they put her on oxygen. 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:23.599 Okay, and somehow this DMS now gets that extra oxygen and becomes DMSO2. 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:24.240 Okay. 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:32.880 But DMSO here, I was thinking, okay, but now we gotta get from DMS O2 to DMS O4. 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:33.759 Uh-huh. 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.839 Yeah, we're gonna go to three next. 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:42.160 No, we're the next, well, yes, but I guess because of the the IV fluids, the H2O. 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:45.279 That's not not even IV fluids. 00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:47.920 I was like, whoa, hold up. 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:50.400 What could they give her that will give her another O? 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:54.799 Maybe not, maybe not what they gave her, maybe what they did to her. 00:25:55.119 --> 00:26:06.640 Maybe when they defibrillated her, the electrical current split the DMSO2 molecules, which rearranged with natural sulfates in her system, to create DMSO4. 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:09.359 Does that happen? 00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:10.319 Interesting. 00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:14.559 Well they were unable to make it happen in a lab. 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.200 Okay, well, this that seems like a stretch. 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:20.880 But this is the theory, the theoretical solution that they propose. 00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:21.440 Uh-huh. 00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:21.839 Yep. 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:24.559 Again, nobody could demonstrate this actually happened. 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:29.359 The proposed mechanism was theoretical and it has never been reproduced. 00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:32.720 But to believe either, you have to assume she was doing it. 00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:38.559 You have to assume she was doing DMSO, which is like the first thing, which again, her family disclaims she lists on. 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:40.480 You know what, you know what I have to say to that? 00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:43.440 You know what House would have to say it to that, Dr. 00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:44.000 House? 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:45.039 Everyone lies. 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:46.240 Everybody lies. 00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:47.279 That's right. 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:53.519 You have to be that you have to be in agony to want to start using something from the hardware store. 00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.079 DSMO. 00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:57.519 Okay. 00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:02.079 The head of the lab said, hey, hey, hey, we never said this is what happened. 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:04.079 Just that people should look into it. 00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:04.640 Okay. 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:09.279 You guys believe that this that she did this DMSO and that that's fine. 00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:10.720 So she could have done it, period. 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:14.240 Done, would maybe explain again, like the odors. 00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:17.279 Again, doesn't explain the spread, right? 00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.480 And the symptoms unless it's DMS-04. 00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:26.400 And you believe that oxygen supplementation and

defibrillation got her from DMS-0 to DMS-04? 00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:26.960 No. 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:32.160 How many times did they and then and then they were unable to do that to replicate that in a lab? 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:33.359 No, I don't believe that. 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:33.759 I know. 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:41.599 Keep the old literally the only other idea was that it was like caused by a psychogenist's. 00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:44.480 Well, let me tell you the third theory. 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.119 So now we get a little conspiratorial here. 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:47.440 Okay. 00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:47.920 Okay. 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:51.200 There is another proposed culprit, methylamine. 00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:53.680 You can have an ammonia-like odor. 00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:54.240 Uh-huh. 00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:58.960 It is associated with methamphetamine production. 00:27:59.200 --> 00:27:59.839 Ooh. 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:06.640 In 1997, New Times LA reportedly published a dramatically different explanation. 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:09.599 New Times LA, by the way, no longer exists. 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:10.000 Okay. 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:10.400 Okay. 00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:11.200 All right. 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:24.880 They claimed that Riverside County was a major center for methamphetamine manufacturing and distribution, and that hospital employees had been stealing methylamine and selling it to methamphetamine manufacturers. 00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:26.319 Methylamine's in the hospital. 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:27.759 Oh, we get in the pharmacy. 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:30.720 And anesthesia and analgesics. 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:31.200 Yeah. 00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:31.519 Okay. 00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:39.359 So the theory is that hospital employees were smuggling this out to sell to meth cookers. 00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:41.759 So they have like their own side hustle going. 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:42.160 Yeah. 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:45.440 And but like, but how would they get this out of the hospital? 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.720 Because it turns to gas very quickly when exposed to oxygen. 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:49.440 Oh, okay. 00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:52.400 So they were putting it in DMSO4. 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:54.559 They were putting it in IV bags. 00:28:54.720 --> 00:29:02.000 This is allegedly putting it in IV bags and then transporting the IV bags out of the hospital. 00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:04.240 Oh, but somebody gave her one. 00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:10.799 And maybe there was a mistake and they hung the bag or the bag had remnants in it or something. 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:15.039 And again, now this is a whole crazy theory that was proposed. 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:17.200 She had no meth in her system. 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:20.079 She had no evidence of this methylamine. 00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:24.559 But again, they were like, well, when exposed to oxygen, it disappears. 00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:26.559 So it wouldn't be in her autopsy. 00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:28.720 So this was a seventh crazy theory. 00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:32.559 Was there this underground meth business happening? 00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:35.039 And now the family has their own theory. 00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:40.319 And I think a lot of this stems from things feel very conspiratorial from their standpoint. 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:40.720 Yeah. 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.119 Because it took 10 weeks for them to get her body back. 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:53.039 So by the time they got her body back from these two autopsies, they the body had significantly decomposed. 00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:55.440 They hired their own pathologist, Dr. 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:58.880 Richard Fukamoto, to perform another autopsy. 00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.400 Is that the one that's always in trouble for messing up the I don't know. 00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:12.000 So when he got in there to do his autopsy, the organs were reportedly contaminated with fecal matter or missing. 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:13.440 The heart was missing. 00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:14.079 What? 00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:19.200 And and that blood sample that had particulate in it, missing, gone. 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:21.039 No one has ever seen it again. 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:30.799 So everyone's like, this like poor handling of the body makes us really suspicious that there was something else going on and there's some kind of cover-up, right? 00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:32.960 That there's some kind of investigation cover-up. 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:42.640 And when they went back in 1989, the hospital was cited for algae and mold-related sanitation issues and cross-contamination issues. 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:51.519 And uh prior to this, there was some like back sipe and plumbing issue, failing metylation systems and recurring sewer gas backups. 00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:56.319 So the family was like, you have this history of toxic gas and plumbing leaks. 00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:59.279 All of the evidence from our loved one is missing, right? 00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:00.559 For her autopsy. 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.039 Did you guys mess up? 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:07.599 Like that's what happened to her, was like, because they claim, you know, she wouldn't have died if she hadn't gone to the hospital. 00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:11.599 Although I would argue she was had terminal cervical cancer. 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:16.160 Those are the theories, like psychogenic, the DMSO to DMSO4. 00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:19.759 Was there some kind of underground meth business going on? 00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:24.960 Or was the hospital covering up because the hospital had some sort of environmental toxin that made everyone sick? 00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:26.000 What do you guys think? 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:31.759 But only like 24 people got sick that were close to her. 00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:36.799 Yeah, the majority were within uh do I say two feet? 00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:37.599 Yeah.

00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:41.680 I don't think it's hospital environmental exposure. 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:46.240 Yeah, I feel like there would have been a second patient with similar, you know what I mean? 00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:47.039 Like I don't know. 00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:50.799 I kind of buy the DMSO4 coming from her. 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:52.880 It looks accessible. 00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:58.960 Well, I mean, DS DMSO seems, I mean, I I buy that she was doing that. 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.680 Yeah, I mean, I think it definitely makes sense. 00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:04.480 We see weird, like I said, supplementation reactions. 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.359 The DMSO ingestion makes sense. 00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:10.880 I can see the family not wanting to be like, are you you're saying she did also? 00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:16.960 I mean, like the this lady died, you don't even get to mourn your loved one because it's like she died, and also she made 23 people sick. 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:17.359 Right. 00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:21.920 And it's like she has a nickname is like becomes a science project. 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:24.400 You can't even like let her rest in peace. 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:26.960 She has a nickname, the toxic lady. 00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:27.680 That's like the story. 00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:29.599 The story of Gloria Remair is a toxic lady. 00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:32.720 And so maybe they're like, I don't like that this is her reputation. 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:40.720 And we do not believe that she would put any kind of holistic, non-prescribed treatment on her body that could have caused this. 00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:46.160 But I the defibrillation splitting and causing the DMSO4. 00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:49.920 I mean, what we defibrillate patients all the time, right? 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:56.480 And they don't have weird chemical reactions because their atoms are not excited. 00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:01.759 Yeah, I don't know if I believe that part. 00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:06.960 I think she was like emitting something that caused people to be sick. 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:10.799 I think she was definitely rubbing DMSO on her body. 00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:17.680 I definitely think she was doing that, but I don't think I also don't understand how you just split from two to four, like two to four. 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:19.200 That's not how it works. 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:22.000 There actually has to be like a reaction. 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:23.680 So I don't believe that. 00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:27.839 Her official cause of death was kidney failure related to cancer. 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:33.200 I just yeah, I think she was definitely using the chemical for pain. 00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:34.400 Okay. 00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:40.160 That's the only thing that makes because if it was mold, how do you explain the DMSO2? 00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:46.240 Well, you could say maybe she was using this cream, and that's what caused the garlicky breath. 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:47.839 Garlicky breath and the sheet. 00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:49.680 But she did have DMSO2. 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:54.079 So what about what else would have gotten her to two other than one? 00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:58.079 Well, is DMSO4 a stable or unstable molecule? 00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:02.400 Is it looking for more stability? 00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:06.559 Because if it's looking for more stability, it's gonna find something to help it become more stable. 00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:14.079 DMSO4 is stable under normal room temperatures and pressures, but reacts and decomposes easily when exposed to water, heat, or strong chemicals. 00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:16.960 If you apply heat to it, it's going to react. 00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:28.719 So if you're if it's stable under room temperature, which is 70 degrees, and then you put it on your body, which is 98 degrees, it's it's more likely to react. 00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:32.159 So you're saying then that science makes sense to you from that standpoint. 00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:35.119 That she had uh been using it. 00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:41.519 I just think I like my evidence, and if it can't be reproduced in a lab, I'm not buying it. 00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:44.480 Well, I don't know how to go about with DMSO4. 00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:45.599 I don't think that. 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:47.360 I don't know if I believe that. 00:34:47.599 --> 00:35:00.320 What I'm saying is I think she could be rubbing DMSO and it could become DMSO2 in her body from being being destabilized with and that doesn't necessarily mean that's why everybody got sick. 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:02.320 Like two separate things. 00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:08.639 Yeah, I I think it could be like she was doing that, but that doesn't mean that that's what caused everyone else around her to get sick. 00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:13.519 So you are you saying you think it's like a psychogenic illness again? 00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:14.960 No, no. 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:16.159 What do you think? 00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:22.639 The DMS-04 story, again, even just like it converting DMS-04 being this toxin that radiates everything fits. 00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:24.480 They're saying this is every single symptom. 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:27.039 It explains the odor, it explains the sheen. 00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:37.760 But I need someone to give me a better explanation of how that conversion happened because I don't believe that defibrillation is what got us from DMS02 to DMS-04. 00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:42.159 But I feel like if it was, I feel like the methane feels like a real jump. 00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:49.679 I feel like if it was like a mold or a toxin or a gas, why were all these people within two feet of the patient? 00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:57.519 And why didn't it like was it never an issue before or after, unless they secretly, I mean, like I feel like the ER would know if they were like shut down. 00:35:57.679 --> 00:35:59.920 Yeah, I

don't believe the mold. 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:02.000 I don't believe the the meth. 00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:03.599 I think she was toxic. 00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:07.679 And I don't think that what like the family said if she hadn't come to the yard, she wouldn't have died. 00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:09.920 So whatever happened, they believe happened in the ER. 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:10.880 I don't believe that either. 00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:12.480 No, me dying. 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:19.519 But it is interesting also that she all they did in the in the ambulance was add oxygen, right? 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:24.880 Supplement her with oxygen, and then and none of the none of the EMTs got sick. 00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:28.480 And then they defibrillate her in the yard, and all the people at the feet of her are sick. 00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:29.760 Yeah, that is interesting. 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:30.320 I don't know. 00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:32.079 Real medical mystery. 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:41.119 Are you saying when they defibed her and the sheen on her body, the sheen is what became DMSO4? 00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:44.400 In 1994, did they have the paddles still? 00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:46.159 Was it paddles or pads? 00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:47.679 I think it was paddles. 00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:48.960 I'm sure it was paddles. 00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:50.880 In ER, it was always paddles, but you know what? 00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:52.880 It's always paddles on TV now, too. 00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:53.360 Yeah. 00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:55.519 Yeah, the nobody uses paddles. 00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:01.599 Defibrillators transitioned from handheld metal paddles to self-adhesive stick-on pads between the late 70s and early 90s. 00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:04.639 So they should have already been stick-on at this point. 00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:12.320 Kate, I gotta say, the whole time, I've not been thinking of the sheen as being, I've been thinking about something in her blood. 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:14.960 Yeah, I didn't think of the sheen either. 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:16.719 But it may be that makes it more sense. 00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:20.719 If something happened on the sheen, that's much more exposed to the air. 00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:26.719 But also, you when you have a wet patient and you're defibrillating, you gotta wipe them down. 00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:28.400 She said it was a sheen, right? 00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:35.840 Like almost like what I'm thinking of is like I don't know, like an emulsification, like like oil. 00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:41.119 I think if it's enough, if it's enough that you're like, I noticed it, unless you're just saying it's just like shiny skin. 00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:41.440 Right. 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:42.639 Good questions. 00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:48.719 We're all going with DMS04, but but don't there's no real questions. 00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:49.440 Yeah. 00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:50.719 Okay, hold on. 00:37:50.960 --> 00:38:00.159 Now I'm thinking,

could you get DSMO4 from the sheen on her skin plus everything in the air with the shock? 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:01.119 I don't know. 00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.800 It seems like it's not rough replicable, so I don't know. 00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:06.400 You know what I'm talking about? 00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:07.119 Yeah. 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.199 And how do they replicate the study? 00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:10.400 I guess that's my question. 00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:12.960 So we we agree that she's toxic. 00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:15.599 We agree we have no idea why. 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:24.480 We agree that her family is lying because everybody not lying in in denial, in denial, or they might not know she was using it. 00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:26.639 Right, because everybody lies per Dr. 00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:27.760 Gregory House. 00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:28.320 Yeah. 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:32.880 That's an that is a that's a real head scratcher right there, Maggie. 00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:33.360 Yeah. 00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:39.039 Guys, just a reminder, don't forget to check out our Facebook and Instagram pages at Three Scheme Queens. 00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:41.840 That's the number three scheme queens, all one word. 00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:44.239 We're also on Reddit, same username. 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:56.880 If you want to check out our website, go to three schemequeens.com and you can find links to our social media accounts, our BuzzSpour page, all of our episodes, additional content, and our contact page where you can engage with us and share any updates on the topics that we have discussed. 00:38:57.039 --> 00:38:59.280 Let us know how we're doing and what you want to hear next. 00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:04.320 There are also opportunities to financially support us with links to buy us a cup of coffee and links to our merch store. 00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:09.519 As always, if you choose not to financially support us, we appreciate the follows, the downloads, the listens, the likes. 00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:11.039 Kate, what should the people do? 00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:11.599 Yeah. 00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:14.480 Obviously, if you have theories, let us know. 00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:16.239 We're very open to it. 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:17.360 Tell us what you think. 00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:21.199 If you want to pontificate, we we want to be there with you. 00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:24.079 We love to well, some of us love to pontificate. 00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:24.880 Yes, yes. 00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:32.079 And then after that, I want you to take out your phone right now, text three people that you think would enjoy this episode. 00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:47.760 And uh scroll on down, leave us a five-star review, leave us a comment, share us on your social media platform, interact with us on our social media platforms, send us an email if there is a medical mystery that you are just dying for people to dissect. 00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:49.119 We're here for you. 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:53.199 The three scheme queens are here for you. 00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:55.360 Okay, see you next Tuesday. 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:56.320 See you next Tuesday. 00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:58.079 See you next Tuesday.