(00:24:27) Podcast Clip of How Data Storytelling Gives You a Powerful Voice for Change w/ Stephen Harris

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storytelling is such a lost art and
devalued in many ways. But the efficacy

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of a great story hijacks the senses,
right? It takes and disseminates

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information in a different way.
Distills it so that we get what? The

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right response.

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Mm hmm. You're listening to leading
with data. A podcast by narrative

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science. In this show, you'll hear
tried and true strategies that make

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analytics more human and inspire data
driven decisions across your compass.

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Join us for insightful and
transformative conversations from data

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and analytics. Thought leaders. All
right, let's get into the show. Welcome

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everyone to another episode of leading
the data. I'm your host, Cassie Shield.

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Today I'm joined by my co host, Steph
Caldwell Staff. Great to have you back.

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How are you? Thanks, Cassidy. It's so
good to be here. I'm really excited for

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today's conversation. Yeah, I am too.
So Steph and I are joined by our guests.

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Stefon Harris. Stephan. Welcome to the
show. Thank you so much, Cassidy and

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thank you, Steph. We are Steph Square
today, so this is fantastic. I love it.

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So the only thing better than one step
is to so Stefan. Obviously, your data

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analysis and Data Analytics leader in
the industry. You're recently chief

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data officer at VM Ware. You're moving
over to Microsoft and Executive

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Management role in the Cloud and AI
business. So I love to open with a

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slightly different tangent. And that is
I love to ask my guess. What's your set

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up today? Like, Where are you? Home
setup. How's Covid treated you? Steph

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and I are freezing in Chicago. Looks
like you're in much better weather on

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the West Coast, but love to hear how
this is. You know how your setups

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evolved over the last 12 months? Sure
happy to share that. So welcome to my

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home office. I am here in San Francisco,
California I can't remember exactly

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what the temperature is, but I can tell
you that it's definitely not Chicago

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weather. That's for your I took my my
little Frenchie for a walk this morning

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and the sun was shining. The weather is
great. It is national wear Red Day for

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heart health. And you know, you asked a
little bit about the last 12 months,

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which have been quite interesting and a
bit of a roller coaster for me

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personally, but I'm glad the sun is
shining today. You know, Last year I

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lost both my brother and my grandfather,
neither of them to covid. But you know,

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tragically, my brother was in, you know,
a motorcycle accident which happened on

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June 17th. And the irony there is that
it was Juneteenth. Less than 45 days

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later, I lost my grandfather to heart
disease. Unexpected. Unexpectedly

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expected, I guess I should say, because
he was on a clinical trial, we thought

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things were, you know, taking a turn
for the best. And then all of a sudden,

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you know, he gracefully exited the
Earth in his sleep on August the 29th.

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And so, um, last year was quite the
world win for me, personally,

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professionally, globally. And then all
that went on, of course, with social

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injustice culminating, I think in what
I would say, the greatest wake up

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moment for the planet. And so with that,
I think I am eternally grateful that

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the conversations have sparked. We've
you know, we've seen things in a

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different way and a different
perspective. And while there has been

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great loss, there also has been great
game. And I'm just super excited about

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where we are in 2021. We've turned the
page on 2020 and more than joy that you

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see on my face. I'm excited to be here
with both you today.

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Well, let me first start by saying, I'm
so sorry to hear about your the loss of

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life and your family. And second, that
was just a beautifully articulated way

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to describe kind of Hopefully what
we're coming out of 2020 with, on the

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positive side, what are your hopes for
2021? Well, because victories, right? I

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think there are a couple of things I
you know, I'm hopeful that this year

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will be not only a year of reckoning
for 2020 and years past, but also a

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year for rebuilding, rebranding,
relaunching, reestablishing and

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reconnecting. You know, sort of the
five ours, I think, will be a great

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reconciliation for us all. I think this
year, you know, as I step into this new

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role with Microsoft, I'm super. You
know, I guess encouraged or

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enthusiastic around Not only just the
opportunity that exists within this

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space, but taking full advantage of the
opportunity to leverage platforms, be

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it this platform. The platform that
Microsoft offers the platform of social

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responsibility to be quite frank and
personal accountability, right that we,

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you know, we use these moments and our
knowledge and you know, our expertise

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to inform, to build literacy, not just
in the space of data and analytics, but

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how data and analytics show up to
inform each one of those moments, right,

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whether it be professionally,
personally, with respect to your health,

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with respect to your financial wealth
or building thereof, or with respect to

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understanding, you know, poverty in a
new way and so blurring the lines of,

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you know, politics so that we actually
turn the corner on people and get back

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to I think, what is core to us all.
Which is how do we actually live in a

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much more unified and cohesive way? And
I think my biggest challenge for

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everyone on the planet, regardless of
where you live, who you are. What you

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do is that you take a moment to pause
and not only reflect, but also

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challenge yourself to get to know
someone that's not like you. That

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doesn't look like you that doesn't live,
eat or breathe where you live. That

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doesn't exist in your personal circle
because you may actually not only learn

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more about them, but really, the
exercise and the outcome there is,

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you'll probably learn a lot more about
yourself. And so I am just that's, I

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think, the 2021 challenge, right?
Remember when everyone was doing the

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ice challenge? The ice bucket challenge.
It's like this is the 2021 challenge,

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right? Extend your arm and your heart
and your mind beyond yourself because

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you will learn something. And in that
right, our data are facts are

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information, and that's truly I think,
how we start to transform. We should

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just end the show right there. That was
amazing. What just struck me as you

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went through. That is, we've gone
through such hell to get to this point.

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And then when I hear conversations
about well, when we go back to normal,

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when we go back to this, I'm like, No,
no, we're not going back. We're going

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forward, Right? So coming out of this
is really about what we do with this,

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You know, this this obstacle that we
went through, how do we turn that into

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an opportunity? Moving forward to
change. And I think you summed that up

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so beautifully. Thank you. I was just
going to add to the conversation that

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I'm so happy that you started this
dialogue the way that you did, because

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it was the reason why we contacted you
in the first place. I heard you

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speaking on the topic of creating a
better, more empathetic world.

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Essentially, and that message just
really resonated with me. And it made

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of science, like we really exist to let
people be more of themselves. And

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obviously we want people to be the best
versions of themselves, which is why we

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do what we do. And I think that your
journey has really led you to such

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incredible heights but giving you this
platform where you can really encourage

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people to step into their power and and
do it in a way that is thoughtful and

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socially conscious. And there's just so
many qualities about you that I love.

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But I want the listeners to hear your
story because your story has so much

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power. I know. When we first met, I got
chilled. Talking to you typically start

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episodes like these with a brief
history of your education and career.

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So tell us a little bit about how you
became the person that you are. Wow,

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there's a lot there. So, you know, I
think foundational e I became the

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person that I am because of my family.
You know, I certainly and what I call

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maybe a mixed breed, if you will, right?
I've got in my heritage African

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American. Obviously you can see that
through the skin tone. But I also have

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German and Native American also running
through my blood lines. And, you know,

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it's interesting, as I just sort of
think about that. There were kind of

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foundational principles put in place,
you know, both on my mother's side and

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on my father's side and, you know, sort
of the spark of ingenuity and desire to

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become more was always the conversation
that was held by my grandfather. You

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know, he would always say your job. He
would say, My job is to make sure that

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I create opportunity and pathways so
that you can be better than I was. And

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your job is to do that for your son,
and then his job will. You know, he

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always believed that the next
generation was smarter, more

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intelligent and more informed than the
generation before. And he goes, that's

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the whole way things should work, is
what he would say, and you know, it's

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interesting. Some days I don't think
the generation today is smarter than

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the ones before, but that's another
conversation of for debate. However, we

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are probably more informed. I just
don't know that we're smarter. We gotta

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go look at the data of that. What I
will say is that I am forever grateful

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for, you know, the family that I have,
the family that I have created and the

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family to come, that I have yet to meet
or to know. You know, I have certainly

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a slightly different path. I'll talk
about my personal life first, and then

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I'll go back and and close out with the
education. But, you know, I was always

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taught that there were just certain
taboo things that you didn't talk about

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right. And you know, you you not only
are what you eat, but you are what you

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hear, what you experience, what you are
informed by. And so for much of my life,

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I wasn't showing up as my authentic
self. I was showing up as the person

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who everyone else wanted me to be or to
become. And quite frankly, I thought

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that was okay. I thought what they
wanted me to become, what they want me

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to be, is good. It's it's a good thing
What I failed to realize was that the

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enemy of good the enemy of great is
good, right? And so I couldn't be great

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because I was limiting myself by what I
thought everybody else's definition of

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me was. And largely, you know, I spent,
and I do not regret a single moment of

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it. But I spent 15 years being married
to a woman, creating, you know, two

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beautiful Children, one of which will
be graduating from university in May of

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this year. The other who just recently
graduated from high school and only to

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discover or uncover unveil that. Hey,
I'm actually, you know, living the

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straight man's life. But I'm really a
gay man, right? And so those thoughts

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and, you know, parts of me were data
points that I didn't understand how to

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interpret or to analyze or didn't have
the right tools to manifest the right

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conversations right And so what do you
do when you don't have that? You fall

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back on. What others have said is the
right path forward, right? When you

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don't know how to chart that way,
define it and defend it. It's the

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behavior pattern that you fall back on.
And frankly, people do that in

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corporate America every single day,
right? It's no different. You know, I

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did my undergraduate studies at Hampton
University. I, you know, did graduate

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studies at G W. And then, you know, I'm
proud to say that I was accepted to

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Harvard Business Analytics program. And,
you know, I am in the thick of that

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right now. I will tell you that. You
know, the left brain side of what I'm

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doing at Harvard right now is extremely
challenging, but also creating that

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passion and and what I would consider
empathy quite frankly, right for the

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things that we asked our data
scientists to do right on a daily basis.

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And not only do we put that pressure on
them, but we we wanted to be accurate

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and fact based, or we wanted to tell
the story that we wanted to tell. And I

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think this is such a moment of
reckoning for me to allow facts to be

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facts and the story to be told in the
way that it the data suggests, right?

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So I am. I will be wrapping up my
Harvard program in the fall, which I'm

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super excited about. So it is hard core
nine months kick ass, right? Um, but

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I'm saying all of that to say that I
think education is the global equalizer

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and we have to figure out how to create
the pathways for education of every

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individual at every level, regardless
of who you are, where you live or what

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your socioeconomic status is, because
that's how we actually can all show up.

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Camilla Harris said. Something ever
quote on my white board in my office,

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my home office, and she said something
in an interview several years ago, and

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I think she might have been the D A
here in San Francisco when she said

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this, but I'm not sure of the timeline.
But she said, It's important for people

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like me to you know, who have a
perspective and experience to be at the

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table when important decisions are made,
and so I reflect on that, and

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immediately most people will call out
the D n. A element of that comment,

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which is a woman you know, African
American, um, you know, South Asian.

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But I actually see the words from that
code in a very different way. I see two

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very important words there, which are
perspective and experience, and for me,

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it doesn't matter. Yes, it matters, but
it doesn't matter that it comes from,

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you know, a female or male, or the
point being is that how do you actually

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develop perspective and experience
right by opportunity? And so if those

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are not afforded to you, if you don't
have the chance to trifle and adjust to

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learn to exercise that knowledge, to
build perspective and experience, then

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you're going to be on the sidelines,
you're gonna be left behind. And so

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this is an opportunity, I think, for us
to cultivate and to create moments that

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allow every individual to participate
and to engage. I think one of the

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biggest opportunities for all of us
being at the table, if you will, is

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remembering the time when someone
trusted us for the very first time,

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right, whether it was with information
or project or a secret. And how we

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managed and handled that opportunity
gave us yet another opportunity, right?

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And so I just encouraged everyone to to
be mindful of that. I'm curious. I had

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thought about this planet questioning,
But as you went through this, um, kind

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of change in your personal life, how
did that inform you? Professionally,

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You you you drew some parallels between
data points and how you're going

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through personally kind of that analogy
in a corporate setting. You personally,

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this being aware of who you were, who
you are and kind of what did now do

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about that, that kind of enlightenment
personally, Did it change for you real

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perspective professionally as well? It
did, actually. It changed a lot of

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things for me. Now, the one interesting
thing was, I should say that my ex wife

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and I were like best friends, right?
Like we were always just very open and

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communicative. And I think that the
essence of that friendship was always

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true. Love and passion and care about
the individual, which is important,

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right? So many people go through
divorces and, um, you know, they fight

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about the wrong stuff right. It's like,
Oh, my God. The material things in life

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just absolutely don't matter. You can
You can build that again For me

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professionally, it was such a journey
because I was in that dispensation of

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time where, you know, I was in
consulting, right? So it was like your

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profile matters, right? How you show up
matters what you say and do matters,

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and everything is all about client
presence, right? And so I distinctively

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remember leaving one consulting firm
going to another. And I left as a

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straight man from one, went to the
other and decided I'm going to be my

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authentic self when I show up. So I
showed up, as you know, LGBT, right?

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I'm gonna wear the badge of honor
proudly, right. And, uh, it was like,

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no issue. It's like, Okay, I remember
starting to connect back with other

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former colleagues. They were like, Well,
we kind of knew we were just waiting

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for you to kind of catch up with what
we already knew. It's hilarious, right?

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It's just like, Oh, my God. You guys
never said anything to me. It's like it

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wasn't our place to say anything, right?
Um But then I went back to my prior

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consulting company. I think it's okay
to mention them capture. And I and I

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just remember my HR business partner
saying to me, Oh my God, I'm just so

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glad, Right? She's like, This is so
awesome. You are going to be so much

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more free to go. Just operate and be
your authentic self and perform. And I

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will tell you that my career took such
a drastic pivot. But also my health

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improved drastically because I was
carrying around this burden in this

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weight of someone that I wasn't
projecting and portraying and

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constantly trying to be something that
I'm not. I took a little bit of a

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sabbatical, I remember, and I started
to write a book and I haven't finished

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it, but I need to I need to finish the
book. But the title of the book was

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living a double life, a truth untold
right? And so it was my way of starting

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to, you know, I guess create these car
thesis or whatever so that I could

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emote and put it down on paper about
what this journey has been like for me.

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But, you know, excited about what still
is yet to come, right? Because there is

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a voice, there is an opportunity. And
there are people, quite frankly, that

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are out there like me. I mean, I was
leading them, you know, my entire life.

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And so now it's like, you know, I'm
okay. You're okay. Kind of a thing,

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right? And so now we just, um Now we've
just got to figure out when I say we

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it's me and my soul and my my close
knit friends figure out, you know, how

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do we take the best of what this
experience has taught me and package it

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up for others to take full advantage of
it? It's an interesting journey. It

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100% allowed me to take everything that
I've learned professionally, be my

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entire authentic self and show up in
the room. And just a much more I would

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say confident way right. I wasn't
second guessing which voice was talking.

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I wasn't second guessing content that I
put on the page. But you know what was

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most important about this? Because I
wasn't afraid to be wrong. And so I had

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lived an entire life trying to always
be right. Always have the right facts

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always show up with the right answer.
Because again, I was hiding something

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right. Just like, make sure that
everything is so perfect, right? It's

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like, you know, people who wash their
baseboards on a weekly basis. Kind of a

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thing. Like what are you hiding there?
All right. You ready for your day

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towards to be dirty? That was me. Um,
so yeah, but I think that's just it's

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so enlightening for, you know, even you
know, any any audience listening to

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this. But you know a lesson for a
younger generation of just when you can

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be yourself and be authentic, it just
opens up a lot of opportunity for you

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and how you live your life. Well,
that's personally or professionally and

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like, the faster you can get to that,
you know, the more happy you're going

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to be. I agree. But I think the younger
generation struggles less with this. I

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think it's our generation and fast
forward ahead that actually have yet an

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opportunity to reconcile right with not
only themselves the people that have

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been in their path, and figure out how
to maybe even bridge into those moments

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of understanding, right? That's all
about the call of 2021 from my

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perspective. And so you know, it's such
a beautiful opportunity when you don't

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have to. Actually, my grandma used to
say, Put on airs like We don't put on

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airs in this family, you know, it's
just like you just you just need to be

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who you are. And so I just think that's
by I think that's just a beautiful

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moment. And I really feel like the
value opportunity or creation is is

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with the older generation because of
the structure. And you know how they

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have always operated and behaved and
informed us, right, who didn't have the

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tools to operate and behave. The
younger generation seems to be

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operating in a you know, it doesn't
really matter, right? And if we don't

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have someone that's not like us, let's
go get someone that's not like us. I

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feel like the younger generation is
just operating at scale, frankly, and

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maybe technology has been the
perpetuators of that right, because we

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see here and can connect more than we
could ever before. So so they're more

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informed, they truly are more informed.
Uh, play at least gives me optimism,

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optimism for the future. Actually, they
can get They can go a lot farther than

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than we could, right, because they
don't have. Or even if they do have

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those bounds, they can navigate them
much more effectively, right, because

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they don't have to hide in the closet,
if you will. I think it goes back to

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what you said. You know, the advice
from your your grandfather and its

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advice that I've had from from my mom
as well, which is like her number one

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goal in life is that she builds a world
where I can stand on her shoulders, and

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I think that, you know, ultimately,
we're saying that but at, you know, an

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abstracted layer, this is maybe
switching gears a little bit. But I

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know that there is such a powerful
story to be told. Speaking of like

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lessons learned early or late lessons
learned, Period, one of your first

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career experiences was working with
NASA, and you were the lead on a

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project that didn't end well for lack
of being able to articulate that

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another way, and that at least as far
as you know, conversations we've had

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really set you on your path as data
professional. Tell us about that. Tell

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us that story, if you'd be willing.
Yeah, absolutely willing to tell that

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story. So I was at the time living in
Cleveland, Ohio, working at, uh it used

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to be NASA Lewis Research Center, And I
happened to be fortunate enough to be

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there during the time where it went
from Lewis Research Center, which is

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interesting to Land Research Centre.
That's another whole story in and of

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itself. So it went from Glenn to Louis,
and I was at the time working for the

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Ohio Aerospace Institute, and I had
built the, you know, in partnership

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with the team of other people, Right?
So it wasn't just I I was a team of us.

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We built the NASA Assurance Technology
Center, whose primary goal was to

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service the safety and Mission
Assurance Organization for the

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Enterprise for all of nasa's missions
and you know, such an interesting

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opportunity. But I remember in some of
the early days we were invited to

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Washington, you know, to present sort
of the strategy the plan roadmap and

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also have a budget ask and, um you know,
we were at the time wanting to kind of

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build out some of our PR a advanced
capability p r A. Stands for

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probabilistic risk assessments. And so
while the shuttle program and the

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agency had established that there are
acceptable risk thresholds, it was

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already known that foam would escape
the shuttle, right. It was a phenomenon

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that was, you know, frankly, well
understood, right and well managed by

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the agencies, engineers and by all of
the risk controls what we didn't

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understand at that time. Well, before I
say that I had asked for, you know, I

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think a budget allocation of like
$36,000 or something right back then

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that probably was a ton of money. Or at
least I thought it was right, you know,

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for for a tool that would help us
analyze and look at, you know, data in

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a different way from a p r A. From a
risk assessment capability perspective,

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but also, frankly, I was trying to,
like, build out additional capability,

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right? So it's like we can't just be
like knowledge management and looking

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at documents like how do we actually
bring some of the core technical pieces

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into the Assurance Technology Center to
give us a bit more value, right?

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Frankly, also a k A respect, right?
Let's just be honest. And, um, you know,

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I Maybe I didn't present all the facts
in a way that was compelling enough for

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the agency to say yes. So as a result
of that, interestingly enough, we have

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analyzed shuttle data, right? So we
knew that there was the opportunity for

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catastrophic failure. We didn't equate
the data there through the

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understanding and analysis of that time
for catastrophic failure. Also equaling

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loss of human life. Right? There wasn't
the connecting of the dots, and so

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therefore, the investment didn't go
forward. Well, shortly thereafter, STS

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one oh seven space shuttle Columbia
disintegrated upon reentry, right? We

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00:28:17.100 --> 00:28:23.510
knew that there was a challenge. We
knew that there would be an issue upon

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return. And we knew that, you know, the
damage to the shuttle was quite

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significant because the system's gave
us that What we didn't understand was

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how severe that would be. And for me,
watching that unfold was such a

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catastrophic moment, not only for the
world, it set our entire agency our

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space program back by decades, right?
We still are experiencing the effect of

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the loss of STS one. Oh, seven. What it
has done for me personally was it

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actually was sort of the spying
stiffening moment, which said, This is

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why what you say, how you say it and
the facts by which your message are

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informed vis a vis the data are so
important in the role that you play and

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you need to take this seriously right.
And so it wasn't that I wasn't taking

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it seriously before. It's that maybe I
didn't understand how to connect those

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dots in a way that would have helped me
to start the story by saying Our next

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00:29:47.370 --> 00:29:55.460
mission will have seven astronauts on
it who potentially may be at risk for

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00:29:55.460 --> 00:30:00.760
loss of life. Here's why. Right? So
it's like storytelling is such a lost

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00:30:00.770 --> 00:30:10.270
art and devalued in many ways. But the
efficacy of a great story hijacks the

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00:30:10.270 --> 00:30:15.900
senses right. It takes and disseminates
information in a different way,

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distills it so that we get what the
right response. And today I keep very

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close to me. I'll see. I'll turn my
computer slightly just so you can see

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it. But That's the award that I
received from NASA. And it has the

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seven astronauts on it presented to me
an appreciation for your contributions

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00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:41.630
in support of STS 107 the Columbia
accident investigation as a member of

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the NASA Colombia Task Force and, um,
the director of Johnson Space Flight

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Center. Issue that to me. And I look at
those beautiful faces every day, and I

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just remember it's my responsibility.
It's my job. It is irrespective of role

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00:31:01.790 --> 00:31:08.110
or whether I'm, you know, head of the
program or not. I have a voice, I have

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00:31:08.110 --> 00:31:15.180
information, and I have a personal
accountability to live not only the

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values and the core values, but also to
make sure that everyone is informed and

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that experience has forever changed me.
And so I do show up differently when it

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comes to knowing the facts and
articulating those facts. I do bring a

356
00:31:31.930 --> 00:31:37.610
different level of discipline, respect,
contribution and honor for the domain,

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and I think I sometimes can be maybe a
little bit too passionate about data,

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and people are like it's just data, and
it's like, you know, it's it's actually

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not just data, right. It's actually not
just insights. It's actually a way of

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life for me. And so here's why. Right?
And so thank you for for asking stuff,

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because I just I cannot let that go. Am
I the only soul individual? No, but I

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have been forever changed by those
moments. And I'm going to fulfill the

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call of this duty, you know, in the
data analytic space. Because these

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seven individuals may their souls rest
in peace were at risk because we didn't

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have enough voices saying the right
things with the right information to

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the right audience at the right time.
That was really well said, and I can't

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imagine going through that. So thanks
for sharing it. Yeah. You know, I I

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often think about, you know, how does
that then show up today? And I was

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00:32:45.020 --> 00:32:50.680
gonna ask you, like, how do you How do
you actually you now see, like what it

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could be, you know. And now this is
translated into maybe corporations now.

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But how do you How does that inform how
you take? You know, you move forward as

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a leader in data analytics and various
companies, and it's given me a boldness

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to challenge the norms. I'm not afraid
to go toe to toe with the smartest

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person in the room because I'm going to
ask questions very differently than

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your traditional leader executive team
member because of that experience. And

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sometimes people may be offended by
that and the and certainly that is not

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00:33:30.520 --> 00:33:34.420
my intention. I'm not here to challenge
your intelligence. I'm here to help

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00:33:34.420 --> 00:33:40.580
create a better set of outcomes. And
when I think about you know what I

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think about equality and corporate
space and Data Analytics and how it all

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00:33:45.710 --> 00:33:51.000
shows up, it's like I have these these
four highlights that basically have

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come from this book on winning with
data. I don't know if you guys have

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00:33:54.620 --> 00:33:59.550
read that book, but in the book it
talks about the data economy right and

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the fact that there are, you know,
bread lines. When it comes to data,

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there's obscurity, this fragmentation.
And then there are brawls. Right? Like

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00:34:10.550 --> 00:34:14.969
this is like it's so interesting when
you think about that and it's like,

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00:34:15.040 --> 00:34:19.750
Well, what is the data breadline
exactly? Well, it's those organizations

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that have created poverty from a data
perspective, and people are actually

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00:34:25.690 --> 00:34:32.699
trying to perform jobs at scale with a
lack of any investment around the data

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00:34:32.699 --> 00:34:36.980
analytic ecosystem. But they want me to
perform and create these beautiful

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00:34:36.989 --> 00:34:42.040
outcomes to compete with those at scale
that have invested where you haven't.

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00:34:42.050 --> 00:34:47.739
It's like I'm sorry. That's like asking
me to bake a cake without an oven. It's

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00:34:47.739 --> 00:34:51.940
not gonna happen. I don't care how many
ingredients good ingredients you have,

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00:34:51.940 --> 00:34:57.480
right? Basics. Guys, when you think
about obscurity, right and it's like,

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Okay, so the data is obscure it the
ability for an analyst to perform any

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00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:12.540
kind of intelligent An analysis around
that data suffers because we haven't

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00:35:12.550 --> 00:35:17.540
managed the foundation and the basics
like, Where's the data catalog? Oh, by

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the way, what is a data catalog when
you go to a library? Could you imagine

398
00:35:23.140 --> 00:35:30.930
not having our cataloging system for
library and finding books like these

399
00:35:30.930 --> 00:35:36.200
are basic things that we've learned all
of our lives. But yet we get into these

400
00:35:36.200 --> 00:35:41.810
high society technology environments,
and it's like we lose the mind of the

401
00:35:41.810 --> 00:35:47.670
foundation of basics cataloging. Where
do you find it? How do you What are the

402
00:35:47.670 --> 00:35:53.250
metadata tagging? How do you manage
that at scale? It's like a library has

403
00:35:53.260 --> 00:35:59.280
no problem figuring out when a new book
comes out where it belongs, How it gets

404
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:00.960
catalog, and it's like

405
00:36:02.130 --> 00:36:05.280
the Dewey Decimal system. It's like
it's like These are basics. Guys, come

406
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:10.710
on. Why do we lose that foundational
intelligence at scale in corporations?

407
00:36:10.720 --> 00:36:15.970
Why I don't understand it, but their
basics and, you know, fragmentation,

408
00:36:15.980 --> 00:36:19.720
right? And it's not just fragmentation
of the data. It's fragmentation of the

409
00:36:19.730 --> 00:36:24.690
ecosystem. It's like, Nope, I can do it
better. So I go build this database.

410
00:36:24.700 --> 00:36:28.780
Nope. This is what we need for
marketing and finance and sales. And

411
00:36:28.780 --> 00:36:32.850
then all of a sudden, you create a data
team and you're like Now stitch all

412
00:36:32.850 --> 00:36:36.310
that together and make sense of it So I
can go talk to the financial analysts

413
00:36:36.310 --> 00:36:40.530
on Wall Street and tell them how great
company is doing right? It's like, Okay,

414
00:36:40.530 --> 00:36:46.760
that's just a mess and just crazy talk,
right? But we do it every day, and then,

415
00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:54.560
lastly is the brawls piece. I love the
fact that now I can get all the liars

416
00:36:54.560 --> 00:37:01.000
in the room from the C suite. Come on,
marketing. Tell me your lies. Come on.

417
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:04.520
Sales tell me your lies. Alright
Finance, Give me those good lives,

418
00:37:04.530 --> 00:37:09.720
right? It's like because they are all
operating off of their own fragmented

419
00:37:09.720 --> 00:37:16.060
set of intelligence, their own
definitions. They lack to catalog the

420
00:37:16.070 --> 00:37:21.600
information in a cohesive and connected
way that aligns to a scalable business

421
00:37:21.600 --> 00:37:28.490
process that you can operate by and
validate audit, check and stand behind.

422
00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:34.730
And you basically know that everyone's
standing in data bread lines to get the

423
00:37:34.730 --> 00:37:39.050
information that they can't get out of
data locked in your multiple e r P

424
00:37:39.050 --> 00:37:43.750
systems and all of your various
applications that you've built. But yet

425
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:46.160
you want the right answer right now

426
00:37:47.630 --> 00:37:52.600
on demand, right? It's like, yeah, we
got we got some work to do. And so

427
00:37:52.600 --> 00:37:57.880
those brawls get creative because sales
and marketing can agree on common terms,

428
00:37:57.890 --> 00:38:04.910
right? We see this happen in financial
services every day, right where our

429
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:08.890
money data, like the folks that are
imagining the money, should have it

430
00:38:08.900 --> 00:38:14.840
right. And in many cases they do. Don't
get me wrong. This is not a hit on

431
00:38:15.020 --> 00:38:20.790
financial services companies. They have
a challenging ecosystem to to manage

432
00:38:20.790 --> 00:38:24.500
around. How do I know? Been there Done
that, you know, spend my days with

433
00:38:24.500 --> 00:38:28.960
regulators during the Wells Fargo era.
And you know what? I think Wells Fargo

434
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:33.480
is a great company. They still are a
great company. They had. You know, all

435
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:38.640
of these factors were challenges bread
lines, obscurity, a fragmentation,

436
00:38:38.640 --> 00:38:43.170
right. The brawls were happening. And I
just remember sitting in an executive

437
00:38:43.170 --> 00:38:48.370
meeting, and I just asked a question,
How do you define long lost value? How

438
00:38:48.370 --> 00:38:51.280
do you What's your definition? Like
each one of the business leaders have

439
00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:55.610
been a different definition. Just like,
Well, maybe this is how the regulators

440
00:38:55.610 --> 00:39:02.610
are permeating and identifying that we
are lying to them. No, we just have our

441
00:39:02.620 --> 00:39:08.240
own self truths based on our little,
you know, uh, body of data. You know,

442
00:39:08.240 --> 00:39:13.970
that fits within our portfolio when you
aggregate that, it creates a lot. And

443
00:39:13.970 --> 00:39:20.080
so helping executives understand that
journey that both the company has been

444
00:39:20.080 --> 00:39:24.680
on, how people operating behaviour on a
daily basis and why that actually

445
00:39:24.680 --> 00:39:31.970
matters at the top is so important. You
know, I spent time. Uh, Stephanie. Okay.

446
00:39:31.980 --> 00:39:36.290
Let me as you as you move forward on
that. How do you do that? I mean

447
00:39:36.300 --> 00:39:39.610
because you're not like you're not.
You're talking big companies that

448
00:39:39.610 --> 00:39:43.050
you're you're involved with. You know,
the VM ware as you have Facebook, Wells

449
00:39:43.050 --> 00:39:48.500
Fargo, Microsoft. When you're in your
starting this journey at one of these

450
00:39:48.500 --> 00:39:54.990
companies, how does this conversation
happen at the senior level where you

451
00:39:54.990 --> 00:39:58.530
need to tell, obviously, tell a story
about, like, what does this mean to

452
00:39:58.530 --> 00:40:01.450
their business? And what do they need
to do? And typically, what they need to

453
00:40:01.450 --> 00:40:06.600
do probably is a lot of change. How did
that conversation go down, or how do

454
00:40:06.600 --> 00:40:07.530
you start that

455
00:40:09.210 --> 00:40:16.880
very carefully? Um, let me just talk
about maybe so First of all, thank you.

456
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:21.590
Consulting services for all that you
have allowed and afforded me to learn

457
00:40:21.600 --> 00:40:28.090
how to navigate in what I do today big
a big tilt of the head to, you know,

458
00:40:28.090 --> 00:40:32.020
the days of Andersen consulting. And,
you know, it's the young captive. And I,

459
00:40:32.030 --> 00:40:39.200
uh, at any rate, um, you know, one of
my last HR business partners said to me,

460
00:40:39.210 --> 00:40:46.750
Stefan, you got to exercise patience
because when you see something, it's

461
00:40:46.750 --> 00:40:51.090
like it just lights up for you all over
the place and everybody else doesn't

462
00:40:51.090 --> 00:40:57.600
see that you are layers below and you
can bring intelligence in a connected

463
00:40:57.600 --> 00:41:04.540
way that people don't get and you got
to give them time to get it right. And

464
00:41:04.540 --> 00:41:13.320
I said, I got it. But the way that
unfolds for me is I have learned to be

465
00:41:14.010 --> 00:41:19.950
a listener in a different way, meaning
when I go in and I do my first

466
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:23.020
interview with someone and they're
telling me about their business and

467
00:41:23.020 --> 00:41:28.080
they're telling me about you know what
they do. And they're also saying to me

468
00:41:28.090 --> 00:41:32.030
either directly or indirectly pair of
the land mines, the challenges, the

469
00:41:32.040 --> 00:41:37.180
things that I want fixed. I have
learned to distill to the lowest common

470
00:41:37.180 --> 00:41:43.610
denominator what it is that they
believe is problematic and then working

471
00:41:43.620 --> 00:41:49.720
like hell to trace that back, to get
beneath the symptom to the actual root

472
00:41:49.720 --> 00:41:57.220
cause. What is driving this behavior?
This outcome, this point of paying for

473
00:41:57.230 --> 00:42:03.390
a given stakeholder leader. And so it's
that kind of pattern that I follow that.

474
00:42:03.390 --> 00:42:07.810
Then, after having enough of those
conversations, I go Okay. How do I

475
00:42:07.810 --> 00:42:12.940
group these? Right, Which of these are
related? Not related, Independent,

476
00:42:12.950 --> 00:42:18.850
connected not connected. And, you know,
how does this then create a cause and

477
00:42:18.850 --> 00:42:25.140
effect, which would then bubble up to
scenario A identified by marketing

478
00:42:25.150 --> 00:42:31.480
sales operations, employees. And then I
artfully decide which of these actually

479
00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:35.220
matter most for the audience in which
I'm addressing.

480
00:42:36.300 --> 00:42:39.140
You know, I had some unique experiences
and being aware where in my first

481
00:42:39.140 --> 00:42:43.740
couple of weeks Yeah, I guess what I
actually did read the policies that I

482
00:42:43.740 --> 00:42:49.630
was accountable for. And I did find
discrepancies in policy execution

483
00:42:49.640 --> 00:42:57.180
systems, alignment data that put my
boss at risk. So what did I do? Hey,

484
00:42:57.180 --> 00:43:03.970
boss, my job, Zain, is to keep you out
of orange, right? First of all, I do

485
00:43:03.970 --> 00:43:10.050
not think that your color number one,
number two it would be such a sad story

486
00:43:10.050 --> 00:43:14.120
for something to unpack or unfold
itself. Because no one was really

487
00:43:14.700 --> 00:43:20.750
prioritizing this right. And I brought
the scenario to him. He said, Great.

488
00:43:20.760 --> 00:43:24.970
Thank you. What's the plan to fix it?
Here's the plan to go fix it. I'm going

489
00:43:24.970 --> 00:43:28.710
to address the high risk of first and
then we'll scale and institutionalize

490
00:43:28.710 --> 00:43:32.390
this so that it doesn't become a
problem in the future. great brought it

491
00:43:32.390 --> 00:43:38.150
to his staff and people were like, How
do you know that? Like, how did you

492
00:43:38.160 --> 00:43:42.850
figure that out? Well, it's simple. I
took the policy, dissected the policy,

493
00:43:42.860 --> 00:43:46.380
heard that there were, you know,
challenges by the business leaders

494
00:43:46.390 --> 00:43:49.350
figured out what the symptoms were that
we're creating. The challenges

495
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:53.470
identified, the root causes, how to tie
back to the systems where they were

496
00:43:53.470 --> 00:43:57.260
gapped. And then where we were actually
not putting controls around data sets

497
00:43:57.260 --> 00:44:02.080
that were then allowed to pass through.
And no one's actually auditing it.

498
00:44:02.090 --> 00:44:07.850
Houston, we do have a problem, right?
But fear not. Here's how we're gonna

499
00:44:07.850 --> 00:44:14.090
fix it. And so it's just kind of that
methodical approach that I think has

500
00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:21.670
helped me help organizations teams
myself, and in that guess, what happens?

501
00:44:21.680 --> 00:44:29.000
I get educated on the business, the
team, the processes, and that's the

502
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:33.390
best thing that one can do when you let
an organization a piece of advice given

503
00:44:33.390 --> 00:44:37.300
to me by the chief marketing officer,
former chief marketing officer, of

504
00:44:37.310 --> 00:44:42.210
being where she said, become a student
of the business right? And if you do

505
00:44:42.210 --> 00:44:46.760
that, everything else and how you show
up and what you articulate will come to

506
00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:50.090
life in a much richer way for your
audience. And that's what I do have

507
00:44:50.090 --> 00:44:54.610
become a student of the business. Mhm.
We've got a lot of people listening to

508
00:44:54.610 --> 00:44:58.900
this podcast who are aspiring data
leaders who maybe haven't had the

509
00:44:58.900 --> 00:45:03.820
opportunity to have the top down
purview of the business. That's that

510
00:45:03.820 --> 00:45:08.040
you've had. Obviously, you didn't start
where you're at, but what would like a

511
00:45:08.040 --> 00:45:14.700
mid mid level analytics person? How can
they learn from your journey? And how

512
00:45:14.700 --> 00:45:20.460
can this, your consultation here be
like a compression algorithm for them

513
00:45:20.460 --> 00:45:24.750
getting to that level of oversight on
the business? I think there are a

514
00:45:24.750 --> 00:45:28.250
couple foundational things. The very
first thing that one needs to know is

515
00:45:28.250 --> 00:45:32.640
that there is no silver bullet, right?
So don't look for the silver bullet

516
00:45:32.650 --> 00:45:39.870
right. Think through what kind of
ecosystem you currently are existing in,

517
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:45.380
and better understand that that
knowledge creating ecosystem where it

518
00:45:45.380 --> 00:45:54.360
has gaps or are creating opportunities
never forsake what and why decisions

519
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:59.130
were made because they are historical
facts and data points that should

520
00:45:59.130 --> 00:46:04.650
inform your present and your future,
and they were purpose built in time to

521
00:46:04.650 --> 00:46:10.840
do what they were designed to do to
answer some question or inform some

522
00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:15.160
business or enable, right? Some
business process. And so, for that time,

523
00:46:15.170 --> 00:46:20.400
it was the right thing. How you tell
the story of where and how that

524
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:24.170
platform, that ecosystem, those set of
algorithms, you know, those metrics was

525
00:46:24.170 --> 00:46:32.670
kpi s Okay, Rs How they operated then
should not be a negative shadow cast on

526
00:46:32.670 --> 00:46:39.140
them, but yet a foundation to eclipse
to the next level. And so take what the

527
00:46:39.140 --> 00:46:44.470
new set of requirements are and tell
the story in a way that says what we

528
00:46:44.470 --> 00:46:49.800
built was great at that time. The gap
that we now are challenged with closing

529
00:46:49.810 --> 00:46:56.060
is X in order for us to actually
effectively close that gap at scale.

530
00:46:56.060 --> 00:47:05.060
But also do X, Y and Z requires in
right. And when you do that, you give a

531
00:47:05.060 --> 00:47:09.880
head nod and cadence to what was built
in the past and all those who are smart

532
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:13.080
individuals or executives that made
those investments and decisions and

533
00:47:13.080 --> 00:47:19.850
informed that stage of life. But you
also open up the gateway for the net.

534
00:47:19.850 --> 00:47:24.870
New understanding to be ushered in vis
a vis why you're there. And I think

535
00:47:24.870 --> 00:47:31.170
that is so important for the younger
generations, for the current generation,

536
00:47:31.180 --> 00:47:35.900
for the advanced generation, to
understand as a process for how you

537
00:47:35.900 --> 00:47:42.500
effectively dr transformation and
change at scale. Just know that, hey,

538
00:47:42.510 --> 00:47:46.250
that investment decision, maybe it
wasn't going. Maybe it's a bad one, and

539
00:47:46.250 --> 00:47:50.310
hindsight is always 2020. So let's not
go there, right? Let's just talk about

540
00:47:50.310 --> 00:47:56.410
how do we get to the future? Focus on
the future. Do not, you know,

541
00:47:56.580 --> 00:48:02.630
rejuvenate the past because it's just a
data point in time for you and you've

542
00:48:02.630 --> 00:48:07.410
got to get after the business of
building. You know what is necessary to

543
00:48:07.410 --> 00:48:15.460
close that gap, that is, I believe what
I wish someone had said to me. To me,

544
00:48:15.460 --> 00:48:19.830
there's so many cultural implications
of that, somebody who is constantly

545
00:48:19.830 --> 00:48:23.980
speaking with business leaders who are
maybe, maybe, in some cases, the person

546
00:48:23.980 --> 00:48:27.380
that made the decision to bring in an
existing piece of technology. Maybe,

547
00:48:27.380 --> 00:48:31.800
maybe not. Maybe they inherited the
stack as somebody who's been with so

548
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:37.960
many different organizations that had
their status quo and as my perception

549
00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:42.620
and you came in kind of disrupted that
to some extent. How do you build

550
00:48:42.630 --> 00:48:47.130
culture around that to make that
comfortable or if it's not comfortable

551
00:48:47.140 --> 00:48:51.290
again? Just what is your advice to
somebody who's trying to be that?

552
00:48:51.670 --> 00:48:55.980
Change agents who may not be in a
culture that's willing to receive that

553
00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:56.590
change?

554
00:48:57.770 --> 00:49:03.570
Don't throw out the baby with the
bathwater, right? And I heard that said

555
00:49:03.570 --> 00:49:07.960
so many times that I was just like,
What the f are they talking about? To

556
00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:13.310
be honest, and it's like, Okay, the
bathwater is all the noise, right? It's

557
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:17.720
all the stuff that actually can be
replaced, right? The baby is what we

558
00:49:17.720 --> 00:49:22.300
want to keep because we want to
cultivate. We want to nurture it. We

559
00:49:22.300 --> 00:49:27.400
want to grow it because it does serve a
role and will continue to grow as part

560
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:34.110
of this organization's D. N. A. So what
do we need to do to dress the baby

561
00:49:34.110 --> 00:49:39.920
differently? What do we need to do to
build an exercise muscle? What do we

562
00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:44.270
need to be feeding in the way of
investment around this particular

563
00:49:44.270 --> 00:49:50.380
foundational capability? And then how
do we want this to show up two years

564
00:49:50.380 --> 00:49:55.550
from now? Five years from now, six
weeks from now. And I think that is the

565
00:49:55.550 --> 00:50:02.340
focus on how you drive, collaboration
and navigate a challenging cultural

566
00:50:02.350 --> 00:50:08.080
ecosystem. Because what you've got to
get people to agree on is we're gonna

567
00:50:08.080 --> 00:50:13.250
keep this part of the baby, right? This
part of the solution, because it is

568
00:50:13.260 --> 00:50:18.000
that has value, and we're not going to
start all over from scratch. Now there

569
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:23.660
may be opportunities or places where
you have to expose it all, and you have

570
00:50:23.660 --> 00:50:29.330
to start from scratch. But I guarantee
you 95 times out of 100 you're probably

571
00:50:29.330 --> 00:50:34.020
going to pull something from the
previous foundation into the future.

572
00:50:34.030 --> 00:50:38.830
The question is, how do you do that in
an artful way that you don't poison the

573
00:50:38.830 --> 00:50:45.120
future right with the past and that
becomes the art and the balance. And

574
00:50:45.120 --> 00:50:49.680
the only way you get that to happen is
by getting those teams of those

575
00:50:49.690 --> 00:50:55.490
individuals who are so invested in the
baby to understand how we want the baby

576
00:50:55.490 --> 00:51:02.390
to become a mature, viable adult, right
as part of this solution and the path

577
00:51:02.390 --> 00:51:07.230
to getting them there, you know,
requires us to do X, y and Z. So they

578
00:51:07.230 --> 00:51:13.000
have a vested interest in making sure
that that investment shows up and is

579
00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:18.090
part of the D N A of the Net new thing
in some form of fashion. And that's how

580
00:51:18.090 --> 00:51:20.580
you build the bridge because you do
need them. They've got all the

581
00:51:20.580 --> 00:51:23.500
requisite knowledge. They understand
how the ecosystem, the application, the

582
00:51:23.500 --> 00:51:27.870
systems, you know, the processes,
whatever work, the outcomes. Well, you

583
00:51:27.870 --> 00:51:33.060
need that knowledge in order to build
the net new thing. And it's always a

584
00:51:33.060 --> 00:51:37.830
dangerous place to think that you know
it all, because peeling back layers of

585
00:51:37.830 --> 00:51:43.530
application and design definitions of
what things meant mean or meant often

586
00:51:43.540 --> 00:51:49.130
become the become less the outlier and
become actually, the more you know the

587
00:51:49.140 --> 00:51:53.790
thing that is requisite in order to
create foundation of success for the

588
00:51:53.790 --> 00:51:57.980
future. It feels like something you've
learned along the way from the

589
00:51:57.980 --> 00:52:04.760
consulting days, Um, as well as from my
days of being in corporate, where you

590
00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:08.770
make a decision and you own it, and
it's like, Oh, God, I made that

591
00:52:08.770 --> 00:52:15.410
decision. That's not what I really
meant. You can't walk it back at that

592
00:52:15.410 --> 00:52:22.580
point, right? It's like, uh, yeah, so
you know, I have another quote on my

593
00:52:22.580 --> 00:52:27.550
board. You know, Peter Sing and Daniel
Kim. They had this philosophy right

594
00:52:27.550 --> 00:52:33.230
that the methods by which we learn and
the systems of the experiences that are

595
00:52:33.240 --> 00:52:37.860
created and managed by those sort of
knowledge environments, they're deeply

596
00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:43.600
fragmented, right? They aren't
connected. And so that's where we show

597
00:52:43.600 --> 00:52:47.530
up. We have to say, Okay, what are all
the different pieces of this puzzle?

598
00:52:47.540 --> 00:52:56.520
And while we don't actually know what
the puzzle is going to create, we know

599
00:52:56.520 --> 00:52:59.770
that there is some level of
relationship between all these pieces.

600
00:53:00.150 --> 00:53:05.580
How do we forsake, You know, some
presupposition about what it should be

601
00:53:05.590 --> 00:53:10.000
and work together as a team to stitch
the pieces together, maybe re carve

602
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:14.430
some of them to create that beautiful
piece of artwork right that we all can

603
00:53:14.430 --> 00:53:19.550
be proud of. As we look back on, you
know what needs to be, you know, a gap

604
00:53:19.560 --> 00:53:24.420
right? As a set of capabilities or
insights and analytics or ecosystem or

605
00:53:24.420 --> 00:53:29.340
new application that runs in the cloud
leverages ai. Alright, how does that

606
00:53:29.350 --> 00:53:35.320
actually happen? And I think that's
just an opportunity. An example of not

607
00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:39.080
throwing out the baby with the
bathwater and figuring out how you take

608
00:53:39.080 --> 00:53:42.270
the pieces of the puzzle and build
something brand new.

609
00:53:43.550 --> 00:53:49.400
You have a hell of a white board there.
I'm going to see that sometime. I think

610
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:53.950
it's actually like it's like a 6 ft
white board. I'm embarrassed to kind of

611
00:53:53.950 --> 00:53:58.140
show it to you, but I will. It's like I
don't know if you can see you see it.

612
00:53:58.150 --> 00:54:05.170
Yeah, it's like a glass whiteboard. I
love writing on glass. Um, I think my

613
00:54:05.170 --> 00:54:09.040
wife is a little bit of my cut out the
part where you see all my boxes from my

614
00:54:09.040 --> 00:54:14.300
last it. I don't think my wife would
appreciate me whining on our bedroom

615
00:54:14.300 --> 00:54:20.410
wall where I sit. Do not do that, but I
have to say, I love all of the art

616
00:54:20.410 --> 00:54:25.410
behind you. The kid art is amazing.
Yeah, you know, if we I like to say we

617
00:54:25.420 --> 00:54:29.300
killed two birds with one stone, I had
a really boring background and I had a

618
00:54:29.300 --> 00:54:33.280
bunch of kids aren't sitting in the
closet. I love it, you know, it's funny.

619
00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:36.860
I still have a piece of art that I have
sitting on my desk from my daughter

620
00:54:36.860 --> 00:54:41.090
that was created some time ago. And
it's like, you know, you think that

621
00:54:41.090 --> 00:54:45.150
your kids create you, keep them and you
know, it's broken on the back end cause

622
00:54:45.150 --> 00:54:54.650
Daddy accidentally dropped it. But I
wanted I wanted to pick up on something

623
00:54:54.650 --> 00:54:59.460
that you said, And you know, I've heard
this comment that we come out of 2020

624
00:54:59.470 --> 00:55:03.600
and in the corporate world, this is,
you know, it's accelerated. This kind

625
00:55:03.600 --> 00:55:07.100
of data are digital transformation like
5 to 10 years. I mean, you hear this

626
00:55:07.100 --> 00:55:11.730
comment being said for sure? I love
your thoughts on, like, where is the

627
00:55:11.730 --> 00:55:16.620
industry going? What gets you excited?
What are the opportunities you see? Is

628
00:55:16.620 --> 00:55:22.670
you kind of tackle your next journey of,
you know, and and did this phenomenon

629
00:55:22.670 --> 00:55:26.910
that we go through really open up this
opportunity to accelerate change in,

630
00:55:26.920 --> 00:55:31.030
you know, business? Essentially, I
think so. I'm a big believer that it

631
00:55:31.030 --> 00:55:37.760
has for a couple of reasons. I think
what we saw happen at scale in spite of

632
00:55:38.540 --> 00:55:42.430
moments of failure. Let's forget about
that, right, Or maybe just use them as

633
00:55:42.440 --> 00:55:46.790
additional data points. But what we saw
happen at scale was more information

634
00:55:46.790 --> 00:55:54.760
being shared across state local federal
governmental lines than ever before,

635
00:55:54.770 --> 00:55:59.520
right? Wrong or indifferent in this
expediency of that information, right?

636
00:55:59.520 --> 00:56:06.000
That's a different sort of channel. We
had third party services, individuals.

637
00:56:06.010 --> 00:56:13.280
People started to come together to
solution at scale more than ever before.

638
00:56:13.290 --> 00:56:18.610
So, like the insights were being
provided and all of a sudden you had

639
00:56:18.610 --> 00:56:25.950
this mom and pop shop who, you know.
Their primary business was dry cleaning,

640
00:56:25.960 --> 00:56:31.910
and they turned their dry cleaner into
a production warehouse for masks. Like

641
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:42.020
what? Like you saw a convergence
happening that transformed that gave us

642
00:56:42.030 --> 00:56:53.150
the power to think beyond our core and
create in spite of a lack of X, y and Z,

643
00:56:53.630 --> 00:57:03.790
and then provide in a way that had no
financial benefit. So we started to

644
00:57:03.790 --> 00:57:10.940
solution as scale as a planet. I think
about that for a minute when we didn't

645
00:57:10.940 --> 00:57:16.630
have all the answers. When we had some
facts, when we saw what we thought we

646
00:57:16.630 --> 00:57:20.780
needed to do, like whoever thought that
they walk into a Neiman Marcus and buy

647
00:57:20.780 --> 00:57:28.210
a mask what, like I mean, whoever
thought in America, you would have to

648
00:57:28.210 --> 00:57:34.060
walk like masks were scary things. You
only wear them on Halloween, right?

649
00:57:34.070 --> 00:57:41.630
It's like the world has changed. We as
a people actually have more embedded

650
00:57:41.630 --> 00:57:46.740
good in our DNA than we actually give
ourselves credit for, even when bad

651
00:57:46.740 --> 00:57:52.810
actors show up on the platform. And so
I have hope that the insights that were

652
00:57:52.810 --> 00:57:59.340
shared the efficacy of the data at
scale has now invoked right, wrong or

653
00:57:59.340 --> 00:58:07.300
indifferent? Yeah, communities and
cultures and corporations to behave

654
00:58:07.300 --> 00:58:12.500
responsibly and to take personal
accountability at every single level.

655
00:58:12.510 --> 00:58:18.750
Right. And for me, that requires a
foundation of being informed. And I

656
00:58:18.750 --> 00:58:25.380
just feel like now, more than ever
before, we will solve problems in a

657
00:58:25.380 --> 00:58:31.200
very different way. We will challenge
the norms of data and facts that are

658
00:58:31.200 --> 00:58:37.090
presented to us to better understand
sourcing and, you know, avoid the bread

659
00:58:37.090 --> 00:58:41.780
lines and the fragmentation and pierce
through some of that darkness of a lack

660
00:58:41.780 --> 00:58:49.320
of intelligence to bring forward right
in a very profound way, what is truth

661
00:58:49.330 --> 00:58:53.410
or the answer or the insight and not be
afraid of what that truth is telling us.

662
00:58:53.420 --> 00:58:59.970
But to take that and then create the
action plan right that opens the

663
00:58:59.970 --> 00:59:04.710
doorway for, you know, every community,
every culture, every corporation, right,

664
00:59:04.720 --> 00:59:09.380
every country to participate. And I
think that is a beautiful thing. We

665
00:59:09.380 --> 00:59:15.300
were not doing that before unless it
was sponsored by some program, right or

666
00:59:15.300 --> 00:59:21.730
sponsored by, you know, a country or
corporation. And I just think that the

667
00:59:21.730 --> 00:59:27.570
world will be a very different place
going forward because ideas are now

668
00:59:27.580 --> 00:59:33.240
right. The they become the accepted way
of bridging the gap in communicating.

669
00:59:33.620 --> 00:59:39.720
And those ideas then are informed,
validated and, um, you know, built

670
00:59:39.730 --> 00:59:45.950
based on data and facts and insights
that may be worked before. And that

671
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:51.220
goes for everything, right? Art of the
possible to you can become right the

672
00:59:51.220 --> 00:59:56.930
Angela Gorman on the steps of the
Capitol to you know, the you know, the

673
00:59:56.930 --> 01:00:02.180
mom, the single mom who's now I had to
quit a corporate job, care for kids,

674
01:00:02.190 --> 01:00:09.110
educate them, and it's looking for a
way to to continue to thrive right to

675
01:00:09.120 --> 01:00:12.770
the, you know, the corporate executive
who should take some personal

676
01:00:12.770 --> 01:00:16.980
accountability and maybe not by a pair
of Christian louboutins, and take that

677
01:00:16.980 --> 01:00:21.040
and invested in your local community
Instead, I'm just speaking to myself.

678
01:00:21.040 --> 01:00:31.250
So, uh, have a way of reckoning with my
own truths, Right? So, um anyway,

679
01:00:31.250 --> 01:00:36.730
that's Yeah, that's just that's just
who I am. I guess so. I related to that.

680
01:00:36.740 --> 01:00:42.980
I want to I want to take it just a
little bit further, and this may or may

681
01:00:42.980 --> 01:00:47.210
not be self serving, but we'll find out
one of the things that you said as part

682
01:00:47.210 --> 01:00:52.020
of this conversation like data is an
equaliser. Education is an equalizer.

683
01:00:52.030 --> 01:00:55.280
One of the reasons why we I wanted to
talk to you in the first place is

684
01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:58.780
because you believe those things.
Obviously, narrative science believes

685
01:00:58.790 --> 01:01:03.270
that the consumption layer of how
people consume data is fundamentally

686
01:01:03.270 --> 01:01:07.980
flawed. It is not an equal playing
field for people that don't have the

687
01:01:07.980 --> 01:01:11.740
level of education that I think the
three of us sitting in this room

688
01:01:11.740 --> 01:01:17.400
certainly have. What do you believe is
the future of how people consume and

689
01:01:17.400 --> 01:01:22.920
interact with data like, what is that
future look like in your head? Scary.

690
01:01:22.930 --> 01:01:29.230
But I'm gonna say it. I think the
future of how people interact is going

691
01:01:29.230 --> 01:01:34.140
to be at every touch point, right? Like
from the moment you wake up in the

692
01:01:34.140 --> 01:01:39.910
morning to the moment you go to sleep.
There will be different ways for you to

693
01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:47.640
experience, visualize, interpret, learn
and provide feedback into our

694
01:01:48.010 --> 01:01:52.740
continuously connected digital
ecosystem. Right? Wrong or indifferent?

695
01:01:52.750 --> 01:02:00.460
What I worry about is exactly what you
just talked about, which is access and

696
01:02:00.470 --> 01:02:09.330
consumption in a way that allows the
personalization of my environment and

697
01:02:09.330 --> 01:02:15.980
my my limitations or my overly gross.
I'll call it connectedness because I

698
01:02:15.980 --> 01:02:25.050
can write. I worry about that scale of
equality being available to the

699
01:02:25.050 --> 01:02:31.250
majority of populations. And I think
the digital divide is actually a real

700
01:02:31.250 --> 01:02:35.820
thing that I didn't really understand
maybe five years ago, but becomes more

701
01:02:35.820 --> 01:02:43.010
apparent to me. Now let's take the
current pandemic. So how many 75 year

702
01:02:43.010 --> 01:02:49.430
olds are actually logging onto the
Internet, checking their iPad, looking

703
01:02:49.430 --> 01:02:54.160
at their cell phone, waiting for a text
message to come in to tell them to go

704
01:02:54.160 --> 01:02:59.440
get the shot? No, I'll tell you what's
happening. Their daughters and sons and

705
01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:04.580
grandchildren and nieces and nephews,
while we may have enabled them with the

706
01:03:04.580 --> 01:03:12.670
devices, were the ones logging on,
using our emails using our like It's so

707
01:03:12.670 --> 01:03:18.460
like We've created a solution with a
series of levels of problems that we

708
01:03:18.460 --> 01:03:25.570
expect to be solved through technology.
But we've forgotten the fact that how

709
01:03:25.570 --> 01:03:29.700
many of these people even have a
vehicle that they can drive. So now you

710
01:03:29.700 --> 01:03:34.940
got to give somebody a ride. Okay,
where's that service? Hey, uber, Here's

711
01:03:34.940 --> 01:03:42.130
an opportunity. So it's like it's like
This is why Camilla's statement of it's

712
01:03:42.130 --> 01:03:48.450
important for people like me who have a
perspective and experience to be at the

713
01:03:48.450 --> 01:03:53.550
table when important decisions are made.
Because we made this decision of how we

714
01:03:53.550 --> 01:03:57.190
were going to roll this out. But what
we didn't think about was, well, maybe

715
01:03:57.190 --> 01:04:00.840
everybody doesn't have a car. So
where's the walk up service? In bed? In

716
01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:05.320
the community, maybe people don't
actually have access to the Internet.

717
01:04:05.330 --> 01:04:09.740
They don't have an email. They don't
know what a website. I mean, they know

718
01:04:09.740 --> 01:04:16.770
what it is, but to interact with it and
they don't trust right that if I put my

719
01:04:16.770 --> 01:04:19.710
information in there, it's going to be
used in the right way.

720
01:04:20.790 --> 01:04:30.350
So it's like these are basics, right?
But in all of our infinite wisdom, we

721
01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:39.570
somehow forget that There's a
generation, a group, a community that

722
01:04:39.570 --> 01:04:45.490
doesn't map to our solution or
experience. And the only way we can

723
01:04:45.500 --> 01:04:52.770
actually improve or reduce that fear of
creating bigger gaps in the digital

724
01:04:52.770 --> 01:05:01.140
divide as we advance in technology is
by having representation, right so that

725
01:05:01.140 --> 01:05:07.800
the voice and the persona, if you will
of those communities is effectively

726
01:05:07.800 --> 01:05:13.510
represented. And, you know, I don't
know they will ever solve this at scale.

727
01:05:13.890 --> 01:05:19.540
But I do know that building awareness
is the first step that we must actually

728
01:05:19.540 --> 01:05:26.170
take so that we can be more inclusive
in our thinking and in our behavior,

729
01:05:26.180 --> 01:05:31.990
which is why it's important to have a
multicultural board. It's important to

730
01:05:31.990 --> 01:05:40.570
have a highly diverse, inclusive and
equitable way of operating in your

731
01:05:40.580 --> 01:05:46.440
everyday life. It's important to be
able to pause and look across the room

732
01:05:46.450 --> 01:05:50.580
at someone who's not like you, doesn't
represent your core values, doesn't

733
01:05:50.580 --> 01:05:54.310
have the same religious beliefs,
doesn't have the same socioeconomic

734
01:05:54.310 --> 01:06:02.720
status and say, What do you think like
is that so hard? Really, And to give

735
01:06:02.720 --> 01:06:09.570
that person the floor to be able to say
Well, here's how I see it right because

736
01:06:09.570 --> 01:06:16.130
again, back to my 2021 challenge to
folks having the opportunity to

737
01:06:16.140 --> 01:06:22.330
experience that not only hopefully will
create some level of empathy or

738
01:06:22.330 --> 01:06:28.940
sympathy, but will become the great
education moment for self. And for

739
01:06:28.940 --> 01:06:34.890
those in that or part of that
experience, I don't know if you could

740
01:06:34.890 --> 01:06:40.680
have wrapped up in a better summary our
entire conversation than you just did

741
01:06:40.680 --> 01:06:44.590
there at the end. That was That was
beautiful. Thank you. Thank you, thank

742
01:06:44.590 --> 01:06:50.400
you. I just I'm thankful that staff I
don't know how she did it. She bear

743
01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:54.500
It'd be out somehow. She's like, you
know, don't take this wrong in the

744
01:06:54.500 --> 01:06:58.100
wrong way, but like, you know, like, I
want to be a truffle pig when it comes

745
01:06:58.100 --> 01:07:01.480
to data like, I want to find all the
errors and just, like, go fix it like

746
01:07:01.480 --> 01:07:03.960
Steph just ferreted out. She's like,
All right, let's let's go talk to this

747
01:07:03.960 --> 01:07:08.020
guy. So thank you for that. Because
you've given me an opportunity to share

748
01:07:08.030 --> 01:07:12.560
and connect with you guys and to hear
and learn all about you know, your

749
01:07:12.560 --> 01:07:15.670
organization, your platform, your
capabilities and I'm super excited

750
01:07:15.680 --> 01:07:19.320
about what the future holds for us both.
Well, thank you. That's one of steps.

751
01:07:19.320 --> 01:07:26.150
Many superpowers. She is definitely her
superpower. I would love to. You know,

752
01:07:26.150 --> 01:07:30.040
I'd love to, uh, you know, Steph and I
both love to wish you the best in your

753
01:07:30.040 --> 01:07:35.010
new journey of Microsoft. Sounds
exciting. Um, where do people find you

754
01:07:35.010 --> 01:07:43.090
if they want to get in touch really
easy. I am at S Harris SFO. That is my

755
01:07:43.100 --> 01:07:47.520
Twitter handle. And of course, you can
always reach out to me on linked in.

756
01:07:47.520 --> 01:07:57.040
But, you know hey, just s Harris s f O
s. Harris SFO. That's perfect. We'll

757
01:07:57.040 --> 01:08:00.540
add that to the show notes. Thanks
again, Stephan. This was enjoyable.

758
01:08:00.550 --> 01:08:04.960
Really enjoyed it. And thanks for co
hosting. That's a wrap of leading with

759
01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:08.110
data for those who are listening. You
want to check out more episodes, you

760
01:08:08.110 --> 01:08:12.370
can find us on all major podcast
platforms. You can google us at leading

761
01:08:12.380 --> 01:08:16.189
with data podcast or check us out at
the science dot com backslash leading

762
01:08:16.189 --> 01:08:22.740
the data. We tell stories every day. We
tell them to friends and colleagues

763
01:08:22.750 --> 01:08:27.120
their core to the human experience. But
often when we tell stories, we're just

764
01:08:27.120 --> 01:08:31.210
trying to explain something and connect
with someone. This is especially common

765
01:08:31.210 --> 01:08:36.000
in business and an important skill for
all leaders. To improve our book, Let

766
01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:40.790
your people be People will teach you 36
ways to use storytelling to transform

767
01:08:40.790 --> 01:08:45.040
your business, uplift your employees
and ultimately let your biggest asset

768
01:08:45.050 --> 01:08:49.930
your people be more human. Visit
narrative science dot com slash book to

769
01:08:49.930 --> 01:08:54.899
download your own free copy. That's
narrative science dot com slash book.

770
01:08:55.870 --> 01:08:59.569
Thanks for tuning in to today's episode
leading with data is brought to you by

771
01:08:59.569 --> 01:09:02.990
narrative science. If you're a fan of
the show, leave us a rating on Apple

772
01:09:02.990 --> 01:09:06.750
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773
01:09:06.750 --> 01:09:08.790
people like you catch you next time.

774
01:09:09.970 --> 01:09:10.180
Mhm

775
01:09:13.569 --> 01:09:13.779
mm.