00:00:01 Have you ever admired a leader and wondered, just what it is? That makes her who she is? How he came to embrace the things that advanced him.
00:00:14 Welcome to Timeless Leadership where we look at the principles that define success.
00:00:21 This is a show for leaders at all stages of their careers, who aspire to understand what it truly means to be a leader.
00:00:30 And who is a leader? John Adams said, if your actions Inspire, others to think more, learn more, do more, and become more, you are leader.
00:00:44 Together we'll explore key principles, not only in the sense of the fundamentals, but also in the ethical sense. The habits, character traits, and virtues that form the backbone of leadership.
00:00:58 Principles that are just as relevant and essential in the twenty-first century as they were in the first century. This is Timeless Leadership.
00:01:13 Hello and welcome to Timeless Leadership where we explore principles and virtues that accompany successful and admirable leaders. I'm Scott Monty. And if you aren't subscribed to the Timeless &Timely newsletter where I regularly cover these topics, please check it out at ScottMonty.com. This week, we're exploring Humanity.
00:01:33 Now, in an age of technological wonder where your face can unlock your phone and we can receive a same-day delivery after asking a smart speaker for a product, it seems to be a little odd to be talking about humanism and Humanity. The ancient philosophers knew the importance of humanity with their 10 essential virtues. Let's review them quickly just in case you forgotten. They're wisdom, justice, fortitude, self-control, humility, love, positivity, hard work, integrity, and gratitude. These days, we focus on numbers and hard skills and that tends to distract us from these core values. These softer attributes.
00:02:23 We focus on follower counts and views on social media. We deliver long-term strategies while being held to short-term financial results. And we're enamored with the fluctuating price of Bitcoin.
00:02:37 What if we stepped back and looked at what drives all of this?
00:02:42 People. Our relationships. And the excellence that we pursue.
Tom Peters has been chasing Excellence for 43 years. He received his bachelor's and master's degrees in engineering from Cornell and his MBA and PhD from Stanford focusing on implementation. Tom worked at McKinsey & Company from 1974 to 1981 in 1979. He founded their organizational effectiveness practice.
00:03:18 In 1981, he left to found his own Consulting and advisory firms.
00:03:26 With 19 books to his name. Tom has been honored by dozens of associations for his content on management, leadership, quality, Human Resources, campaigning for more women in senior leadership positions, customer service, innovation, marketing, and design. If you've never heard him speak, Tom Peters is what would happen if Dale Carnegie, Peter Drucker, and Red Bull had a baby. Hi final book is Excellence Now: Extreme Humanism.
00:04:03 Tom, welcome to Timeless Leadership.
Well, thank you and I'm not entirely, sure I have anything to say because that was the best. Not the introduction of me. That was the best introduction to the topic of leadership. I may have ever heard, it's my pleasure to interview you today. It was really it was really wonderful, absolutely fabulous. I commend you for that was cool. Seriously. Cool. Thank you. I'm I'm I'm humbled by that. I mean you are a a guru to many in the management and Leadership feel. I've certainly been following you for a long time. I've seen, I think the fruits of your labor from CEO. I used to work closely, with who, who espouse? It's a lot of the stuff you talk about. That's Allen Malawi at Ford Motor Company in it. It's it's interesting to me, because you and he are both Engineers by training and yet, here you
00:05:03 I said, with scads of books on the shelves, behind the so, talk to me a little bit about why an engineer would approach something as and, and I'm, I know, I'm going to get on your ear, bad side with this approaching something with the softer side, like humanism, and, and Leadership, and, and such
00:05:23 First, I'm going to challenge your language just a little bit. I did not consider myself an engineer. I consider myself a recovering engineer. I can spend the day answering that question, but who am I to answer it? And this is not looking for points or people to do whatever my parents had no money.
00:05:51 Effectively, I went to a little private school and my mother started teaching the 5th grade to pay my way through that school. I went to Cornell is an engineer every single penny of my tuition was paid by the United States Navy and in return, I gave them for years of my life and in the middle of my education. Lyndon Johnson did the same thing. I think George W. Bush did in Iraq, and that is made up an event and we were allowed to fight a war Vietnam, and I was a civil engineer.
00:06:31 And so the US Navy has a group of combat engineers called the c b and c b s e. A b e is for the cafe construction more than you need to know. They start off at at Guadalcanal at any rate I had an extraordinary engineering education so at some point in August of 1966, my c-141 starlifter lands in Danang Vietnam and I am a junior officer in charge of a detachment
00:07:14 In the middle, we weren't Marines, or Special Forces guys going out and getting shot at every night. I did not want to overplay it people or one that people were killed, but that was not the main part of it, but your support. So,
00:07:29 My first appointment was 9 months.
00:07:32 I came home. I wish was Maryland. Annapolis. Maryland, I went up to Cornell.
00:07:41 and I,
00:07:44 Uninvited.
00:07:46 Stormed into the engineering Dean's office, and I won't use the exact language ideas because this is a family gathering. But fundamentally I said you screwed me.
00:07:59 You gave me the best technical education known to humankind. I landed at midnight in August of 1966 and I was legally the chief petty officers actually run the Navy. I was legally responsible for the lives of a Detachment of 10 or 15 Sailors. And my leadership training at the grave Cornell University was Zippity Doo. Dah 0. They may have forced us to take a psychic or something like that and that is 1 of 2.
00:08:38 Formative moments. I don't like words like Epiphany in the company was, I will admit a little bit in retrospect but it was huge and yes, I said I'm not over blowing this thing that she's Petty officers run the Navy to start, run the army. They were really in charge, but legally, I was the legally responsible officer for the lives of fourteen or fifteen people in a combat zone, two things, one thing, it reminds me of it and another thing I want to go back to, but Peter front of us who was a Johns, Hopkins, ICU doctor and I suspect most of the people we were listening to us know a little bit about this invented, you stolen from the airlines. When she's the first person to save the checklist.
00:09:24 And the use of the checklist and Health Care is to help reduce the 200,000 unnecessary hospital deaths that dump a little crappy stuff. Not think things. But at any rate, there's a quote of Peters that I use in my new book and abused in general. And he said, during dinner what, what I just said he said during my years in medical school, I probably looked through a microscope, 180 hours, a skill, which I've never used. Once since I graduate, I had zero hours 0 minutes and 0 seconds of leadership training. And now, what am I doing? Leading / managing, and I see you.
00:10:14 And I don't want to go on forever with us, but I want to do just the the other epiphany.
00:10:20 I was working.
00:10:22 Mackenzie something, I used to be incredibly proud of and with their horrid in disgraceful, involvement in the Oxycontin thing. More recently, I don't get it. Big companies tend to get worse over time so that we might have time to discuss. But at any rate, Mackenzie supported, the research that he came in, search of a silenced my call, her mom. And I were in the San Francisco, Mackenzie office, and one fine morning. As it were, we drove down the road, 30 miles to Palo Alto to interview. The president, got a name of John Young, first of all, we live two floors below the CEO of the Bank of America and if you went up there and were offered a cup of tea, it was probably a teacup that came directly from Buckingham Palace.
00:11:17 The president of this billion-dollar company, John Young, his suite was an 8 foot by 8-foot cubicle with walls, that came up to about your chest. So John's going through, stop were questioning in the introduces us to this thing called the HP way. Nobody use the word culture in those days. We use the way we do things around here and in the middle of the weight loss pill cutter, the four, most important letters in my professional life mbwa or managing by wandering around in the point of that really, in the reason, I raise it.
00:11:59 Is I work for McKenzie? I was used to working with citicorp and Jason had back and all these big companies and suddenly young demonstrated that you could be running, a billion-dollar company and induce human intimacy and it was like holy shit, you can do that. You can walk out of your office and actually talk
00:12:24 And it really made me sound stupid in 2021, but it was an epiphany to understand exactly what the hell you said in your introduction is so we hear this is the best and that is some point.
00:12:39 Play Ronnie said come on. You guys want her with me for a while and I did you actually get use the word laundry. So we go in to, do you want to cross the road across the hall to one of the engineering spaces in the word bunch of Engineers? Probably you know, 29 2:38 would be the the major rain is so John talked to him the same way you and I thought it was nothing. Still did nothing formal. You know, they talked a little bit about engineering and he always automatically ask them what am I doing to make your life more miserable? And how can I reverse it? And they also talked about dropped passes at the 49ers game, the prior Sunday and so on, but it was professional, it was amiable, it was practically useful and then the topper and we were very unimportant people. So I damn. Well wasn't stayed for us. So he went over
00:13:39 Tonight is the guy over there that I'd like you to meet and the guy was some, you could kind of seats in the back of his head. He look like I do now. He was an old fart and he was talking to a young engineer dress dinner. Mackenzie black suit, black guys, flag shirts, Etc. Walk over with John. Who that was your 1977? An engineer still wore ties, but it was most casual shirt you've ever seen in your life has walked over and he said, Bob and Tom. There's somebody here, I'd like you to meet, I'd like you to meet Bill hulette. Fortunately, it wasn't being paid so you can see peeing. My pants Bill Hewitt,
00:14:30 The Packard of BHP David back or he was kind of a normal guy and handed all the money. But Bill was the guy who worked on the products, he was the engineer guy and he was having a comfortable conversation with somebody 26, 27 28. And they were chatting like a couple of peers. And, you know, this is a big computer screen days, but it was. Yeah, it wasn't the ten, great principles deprimo, got all ten of them, and it's in its own fashion. It was intimate, it was human. And then for the ones I've asked me to carry around MBA. It's also long-term the monster be the best way to make money and grow and I know you mentioned and we can talk about it. Perhaps the the end of the focus I've had on women's issues and I've said, I've had it for two reasons, won the literature says, women are better.
00:15:30 Leaders and two women by just about everything. And so my point is Ben. I do believe in social justice. I'm really interested in the social justice part of the women's issue. But that ain't what I'm talking about. I am talking about more active Enterprises and the people who buy your product. So it's hard ass and be a logic know. If you will be the best part of my education is it means that what I'm having talks about this Soft Stuff, you can't lay a finger on me. I have got my bases. Covered you ain't talkin to a philosophy major, you were talking to somebody with for quantitative degrees to engineer into businesses who is a combat veteran screw with me if you will. But I'm telling you the most important thing in the world is to walk.
00:16:30 Shop for zoom on the shop floor and have intimate conversations with people. And and I'm not telling you that as a guy who memorized all the Greek philosopher thought telling you that is somebody who could solve third order, differential, equations with both hands tied behind my back and it's really important. I've seen it and it makes me nauseated and talk when I'm focusing on women's issues and there's a woman who is speaking before me or I speak to these guys. Usually and say wake up. This is important that I can scream out of my can yell out of my to tell them they're idiots because I tell him that I'm an idiot to a woman and gets up there, not using my language. Max points that are a more pertinent and be have more data and you know, I had a shot going and I wish your you will have the video of this but there are
00:17:30 the brunt of their chest when you know when she speaks, which is
00:17:35 Call Al Jordan mobile that silly, but it's a passionate thing because so many of the other guests that had on it, it, it it feeds into each successive episode. I talked with Marilyn gist about leadership ability, and she was talking about Jim Saint, Edward Walker, she's an amazing woman Costco, you know, you walk into his office and he's got a 6-foot, you know, just a foldable table as his desk and he picks up his own phone when he can and answers his phone calls. I mean, it's it's that level of humanism and couple episodes ago, I had believe it or not. I had a practical philosopher on there is such a thing as practical philosophy.
00:18:35 Name of Tom Morris who goes around and visits lot of Corporations and we got to talking about how all of this wisdom. The topic was wisdom house. So much of this wisdom comes from our grandmothers and I want to pull the clip because Tom had something to say that you'll appreciate it, bro. The real deal of the people who are truly wise, whether it's somebody's grandmother, they grew up that person in your life. Yes. My grandmother is often. Not written down. We have the grandfather's, but we don't have many more white women riding down.
00:19:32 so what what can we do in end times worse to honor these women and to take their words of wisdom to Heart,
00:19:42 Imunch.
00:19:44 More brutal.
00:19:46 Then I used to be.
00:19:48 Maybe it's cuz I'm getting older and don't have that many more years left to scream and shout and wave my arms around.
00:19:56 What you can do is cut the crap, shut the hell up, and make sure if you're in a sizable company within 36 months 50% of your executive team as well. And, and if you're in a public company or private 50% of your board, quit screwing around. And if you dare tell me that you have a difficulty finding qualified women, I will not like that because I may die, I will be laughing so hysterically at that comment. And so you know,
00:20:31 You know, I don't I think I think I've got this right, but I said we're going to declare and we've come a long way, but we're going to declare a national holiday when a woman becomes a CEO and the day that we have more women CEOs of Fortune. 500 companies than we do men, whose first name is James,
00:20:54 I mean it's not like we're up to 41 women out of 500 but heinous, I've had it, I
00:21:02 You know, we're dealing with understanding more more everyday. The deaths of Art in a quality problems and I'm of an age where affirmative action was a big thing. Many salt is pluses that were minuses and so on, but I'm becoming his back to miss quit screwing around, I don't know. I'm not going to give you a medal when you've gotten your executive team to have for women instead of 3 out of 12 know. I'm going to give you a boot in the ass and say let's get going. Then you say, well we can't fire me up here, guys. I said by its band executive themed 18, and hit the 9 Mark, but no effing excuses and there is enough research to sink a battleship wood says, women are on average. There are great male leaders as you know and there are awful women.
00:22:02 On average, women are better leaders, better salespeople, better to go, she ate hers and better in bed, and my favorite book title ever met top. The Bible for god, sakes for the core and which will get me in trouble with various people, is LuAnn Loft and it's a senior person at Motley Fool and here's our book title
00:22:25 Warren Buffett, invests like a girl, and why you should too. And I love it. And when it came out, which is also terrific Papa hadn't heard about it, but he wrote the first review at Amazon that was the sweetest thing in the world. He said, you know, I don't know, I invested like a girl, but she's got it and the kind of things which speaks a lot of this is one example of you. And I were back to being offices for this discussion. You and I are sitting next to each other and we are Traders. And you had a really good day and I haven't had a great day and it's now 30 minutes before the market closes and I'll be goddamned if I'm going home with you. Having had a better day. So I start doing shit for the last 30 minutes.
00:23:25 Most of wood blows up, either that, or the next morning is that male testosterone, kicking in, and the research which is locked and it does says things like, women, don't do that kind of smartassery they'd actually think before they make decisions and so on. But it was a, what's my answer for the women's day? Quit screwing around. Its life is wonderful thing with some group.
00:24:00 Made it have a commitment dub, black lives matter and they were now it's mints and so on and a guy who had. So I think it's a headhunting, firm is an African American. Had a whole letter in each of the journal Wall Street Journal, New York Times and he said, this is wonderful what you've done for black lives matter. Will you please send me a photograph of your executive pay and that, which is where the rubber meets the road as they say in the world of Ford Motor Company's that other send me a picture of the executive team and then maybe we can talk about it. Well and it seems to me that over the last year or so, the pandemic has created an accelerator for allow companies to do a lot of innovative things and they know that would be part and parcel with it. Then you actually have a really interesting section. In your book called the leadership 7 / covid-19 you want to run through what those are and
00:25:00 Yes, I do. We can approach them.
00:25:05 when the pandemic started,
00:25:09 My wife.
00:25:11 Has done many things, but her start was at a tapestry as a tapestry Weaver, the big giant ones in City Island, in lobbies and so on, but nobody had masks and she and the bunch of other people started making masks and so I'm sitting in my home office and I said no, she said, she's actually trying to do something. Why are you sitting on your ass? And so with my colleague, Shelly, who, you know, we volunteered to be on podcasts or anywhere and arrogantly. Your we said, I will talk about leadership, amidst, the pan then I and out of that. Ain't this thing that I called the covid-19 leadership set and it sounds like the list you read at the beginning of this and then he respects be kind, be caring.
00:26:09 be patient be forgiving B+ be present, walk in the other person's shoes and my great-grand I suspect it's yours to is that
00:26:25 It has its happen in places, it hasn't happened but there is more of it.
00:26:31 Then there was a year ago and my great-grand a lot of people said this on many dimensions is the sum of these more Humane acts will stick. When covid-19 you. Hopefully, you know, reaches a stability point or the end or what have you. Let me see what my definition was my practical definition is I'm running a group of ten or fifteen people and we have three or four Zoom meetings a week and in whatever the last four months we've had 20 Zoom meetings and
00:27:13 Our friend. Dude, the finance person Mary as showed up or called bill. This is a gender-neutral point we'll call it Mary Bell. Mary Bell has showed up
00:27:27 On time for every one of the 20 meeting. And now we're doing a little evaluation and I say this person a little bit and that is your tennis record is so good. I know that you got two kids at home, I know that your wife or husband is teaching the 7th grade from the second floor. Be assumed. By the way, I know that your mother is in an assisted living place and we all know that's been problematic and I
00:28:04 Do what you need to do for your family yourself, your community. I am happy. As can be if you miss a meeting are happy, I'm happy. If you show up late, the four in a row but your productivity is not priority number one at this point and then, you know, and so that's my little Spiel for you. And then we put the asterisk on it, which is not what was going through my head. But guess what I did. I just didn't Kris productivity because something like, something like that, with a person like that, is going to lead them to focus more than ever perform or deal with their colleagues and so on. I mean, instead I did this, the part of me which is a, not quite recovered engineer, we are required to speak in equations and I did my equation which was k. Equal sign are equal sign p and that stands
00:29:04 Kindness equals, repeat business equals profit. And you know, I hope and you implied. This everything you're doing and it's coming from somewhere deeper than the implications on a spreadsheet. But the point is it is a wonderful thing. It's a magnificent thing.
00:29:28 David Brooks.
00:29:30 The New York Times columnist, add a column. I didn't get out of his book. One of his books, maybe it was a year ago.
00:29:38 and one of the most powerful things,
00:29:42 I never read.
00:29:44 He contrasted what he called resume virtues and eulogy virtues resume virtues are Tom went to Cornell, you graduated in the top, 10% of his class. Then he was a veteran that he went to Stanford and graduated in the top 10% of his class and then you have to work for McKenzie. Free time to watch TV or the rest of the resume Birches. Janice Brooks says, the the eulogy virtues or what do they say about you at your funeral.
00:30:20 And that's all about.
00:30:23 What your decency is a human being when I use have used in the past, PowerPoint slides. One of the ones I have is a plain grey Tombstone and audit is Joe, T, Jones, 19, black tooth 2021.
00:30:45 13782600 $12.04 net worth when the market closed on the day that he died. Well. That's my point. I just love the people is
00:31:13 So as you and I are talking, I don't know. I'll be going to see if we're at the end of your work day Thursday, what's your eulogy score for Thursday?
00:31:25 What's your eulogy score, again, I'm not going to buy for the sake of making it into a spreadsheet, but just go through and I have there been a couple of times, just a little bit farther reached out or Del Sol Hospital. You would with someone instantly one of the people that I command you to have is Betsy Myers and Betsy
00:31:54 Was the women's initiative executive, whatever you want to call it in the Clinton Administration. She what ran a women's program at an engineering school in the Greater Boston area called that late. She's now mainly coaching and she's a wonderful person. She has to be there Betsy Myers sister of eating Myers, who was the spokesperson for Glenn. But betsy bug
00:32:28 It's called take the lead and you implied this and the point is, any human being, maybe we'll say over the age of 10, but any human being can be a leader on any day and know, the way I've always said, is it's a, the temperature in my car, went over Saturday in yesterday for the first time this year, but it's a miserable.
00:32:57 Ann Arbor or
00:33:00 South Coast Massachusetts Day, in February, it is gray, and his cold. It is sleeting. And on the way to work in the F2 a duet thing we stop somewhere and there's a little florist and you spend all of ten bucks pick up a little bunch of flowers and you come into the office and you go to the the coffee area and put them in a little pot somewhere and stick them on the receptionist desk or something like that, as an act of pure unmitigated unbridled leadership, just a grade-a. That's what leadership is all about.
00:33:39 That's what leadership is all about. So I want to jump back there just a little bit. You talked about eulogy virtues vs. Resume virtues. What do you hope to have on your Tombstone? Tom
00:33:54 Well.
00:33:56 My third book, which is thriving on chaos was devoted was dedicated to two people. One of them was William, William Donald Schaefer, who at the worst of times and there's some bad times. Now, was the mayor of Baltimore and to say that he turned Baltimore around this actually
00:34:19 Pretty good and not hyperbolic statement. And I went to the big event, which was his retirement celebration and Mary Schafer got up after all the other words and in the middle of his presentation, he said I would like to have a tombstone. And I would like you to have it out to work on it care.
00:34:47 And that'll work for me and you know it's right in this book. As you pointed out is my 19th. I said you know, Brady guy I'd love to have the royalty. I'd love to have you go out and buy all 19 of my books. I would cash the royalties Jack but here's the Dirty Little Secret. They all say exactly the same thing.
00:35:13 Yeah, it's 19 efforts to say, do your wandering around. Talk to the kids, bring the flowers behave like a decent human being. There's there's a, there's a quote from the great novelist Henry James, which I love and you probably know this one free things in human life are important. The first is to be kind, the second is to be kind. And the third is to be kind at Selanne, the whole point of what I've been doing for, as I point out the new book, 43 years. Since the research started is basically saying,
00:35:53 Be thoughtful because I be sharing focus on people. And I believe in you hinted that this earlier on it's far more important in the age of artificial intelligence than ever before the ability to stand out. I write a lot about 9 with you have products that move you. There was, there's a little quote, from a guy wrote a book called emotional designer's name is Donald Norman is a social psychologist by training, but he quotes in there it's the I think it's the the Mini Cooper, whatever it is Mini Cooper 8 or something like that. I think many of us know that car and eat close to Riverview and the reviews said, no car and recent memory has caused more smiles.
00:36:40 Now that's me is the best advertisement statement, whatever you want. And I think all of our service is being a Consulting bday. Podcasting, bday coaching, United States into the deepest, ennismore smiles, more interaction, more Humanity. Yeah, I think that's the way you stay ahead of the curve. I would also say and I know you have all sorts of people on
00:37:14 I know I'm really old but even if I was 25 years younger, I know that an insane amount of stuff is going to happen in the next 15 to 20 years.
00:37:27 But here's the secret.
00:37:31 First, you got to make it to this afternoon.
00:37:34 Life.
00:37:38 5 years from now, we'll be changed.
00:37:42 But the elements will be significantly. Recognizable my last book, before the current one was called the Excellence dividend, which was the Publishers chosen title.
00:37:58 I had an alternative title, which is plays a big role in the new book. And the alternative title was Excellence is the next 5 minutes.
00:38:08 Excellence is not a hill to climb Excellence. Is not an aspiration. Excellence will go at to ask, but it could be you and I having this discussion is after the meeting, lets out,
00:38:25 And Mary or same Sam, didn't contribute much. They were smiling much in their exceptional. People is you spend three minutes in the hall and say, you never, frown and kids are going to just have a little human. Three-minute interaction with somebody and you know that the whole world is changed for everybody and the Enterprise is changed by that. So, you know, that's really my message its Excellence is the next 5 minutes or it is nothing at all and we had to find out what you're doing. We are doing rather, is whatever I've been doing.
00:39:08 What's my current singing? I've been doing for forty odd years.
00:39:13 At this moment.
00:39:16 At this moment.
00:39:20 With all those years and all those 2500 speeches, and all those 19 books, and all those engineering Grace at this moment.
00:39:31 The only thing in my life that matters is the quality of our conversation.
00:39:39 this is that obviously if I had my wife was suffering from covid-19 or what have you but but this is it
00:39:49 I don't understand what happened before half an hour ago and I have no idea what's going to happen to half an hour from now, but this exchanges, you know, I'm doing my best to give me 43 years or actually 78 years. I didn't have the grandmother but I had it in one generation later which was my mother. And she, she was a Virginian by birth and some things happened in the South, but don't always make me happy and that's actually understatement, but the one thing I said, I know your mother loved me here. Certainly think so. But the most important thing she gave me with Southern manners,
00:40:32 Manners is a sound step, but it's, yeah, I said he won't understand my mother. You're opening Christmas presents is pretty big pile for you. You're a kid of Thirteen or something, whatever. And you're halfway through and your mother calls, a halt and the hall is so that you can write the thank you notes in the first half of the presents that you received and borders on exaggeration, but not by much. And then I said the other day that I said at the people because sometimes they almost get assaulted, I said I call nineteen-year-old.
00:41:11 711 clerks. Yes ma'am or yes sir. Because I am not allowed not to do that by my mother who has now been dead for 16 years and that doesn't matter noise. Well your support of all this.
00:41:32 My wife and I, I'm 70 hd70, and we wanted to see if you know who had her kind of life in order if something had. And so we had somebody who helps us with finances. And I remember it's the third time when it clicked Barbara Martin is the one that I work with, and I got an email from her and I don't know what it was about and I could have been Social Security Medicare, who knows? But the email started out with hi Tom, space. Better than
00:42:10 Space have a good day, Barbara.
00:42:16 Honest-to-god, a white bulb went off for me. I thought holyshit
00:42:23 it's next to the human conversation.
00:42:26 And it's either. It's trivial, but it's not trivial at all. And I have a great friend as a psychiatrist and I made this comment to him and you didn't quite last. I said, Steve.
00:42:42 If you are boss and you will show me your last 10, 10 line or more emails, I can do a complete American Psychiatric association quality diagnosis of you as a human being and he said exaggeration. But it is that you know, this is.
00:43:10 Do you just are you guys moving so fast that everything I do and no Humanity to? It is all. And where, where's the high Tom Wright World changes when you when you, when you read that high time, I don't know how it changes. But, you know, I'm not a neuroscientist but there are neuroscientist now by the hundred and they know that all sorts of Waverly, diggle, these happened in your head when somebody says thank you or somebody says I'm sorry, you're somebody says hello and the Brain. Just go Zippity Doo Dah Day. Yeah, but it's interesting because, you know, technology has allowed us to do so much of this so much faster and to reach so many more people but at the same time, it's allowed us to forget the essentials of what's important in human relationships. Just yesterday and my newsletter I talked about the importance of the Pickle Barrel. Do you have a pickle Barrel in your life? Now this is going probably farther back than
00:44:10 Then I will certainly further Back to Me, Maybe farther back than you the old General Store when when that was the center of the town's existence and you will go in there for everything from, you know, your postage stamps, go to flour, to canned goods, there would be a pickle Barrel there, and they usually be a guy sitting next to it and it take the lid off and you have a conversation, right? And it would become the center of the community and you didn't just go in for a transaction, you were part of an intricate community and a relationship, whether you like it or not, that you had to deal with other people in a kind and a polite Manner and we kind of need some version of that to return again. Are we getting better or worse because of Technology?
00:44:58 I,
00:45:00 I'm not in anyway, here's my answer.
00:45:06 I was at dinner.
00:45:09 The really big deal.
00:45:12 Investment guy was not Warren Buffett but I'm almost at late in the middle of dinner and turn to me.
00:45:21 Is a private dinner solo, not read some name. You turned me any said time. Do you know what the biggest failing of CEOs is? And I was born a smartass and I said, no I don't. I can think of 50 but I can't narrow it down to one any, they didn't crack a smile. It does smile last night that kind of thing. But he said they don't read enough.
00:45:45 they don't read enough and
00:45:49 That's mainly.
00:45:52 My answer to you regardless of your age regardless of your position.
00:45:59 Because of this change, you have got to become an intense student in a way that makes your. If you have one, PhD, studies look like small change. And the reason I veered to that is I was
00:46:19 about to try to answer your question and I was going to kind of refer to
00:46:27 some of these things that say that the kids, there's a new generation on name, the people who were born on the day that the iPhone was released or later and you seen it and I seen it and you see a couple or 4 people sitting down at a dinner in a restaurant back when we used to do those things and all four of them were looking at their iPhones
00:46:53 And they message each other now because of my age or your age that's pretty damn antisocial. But that's not the point. The point is back to my neuro biological illusion again. A couple minutes ago is screwing with her brain.
00:47:15 And you have referred to. I remember what the, what the comments you weren't? I don't know if mr. Baris or whatever it was but you learn to do, Zoom better.
00:47:29 Etcetera. But there's some big stuff going down with this technology. Shirley turkle. Is that her name has been writing about this and then she served UC Berkeley, maybe for years and years and years. But the enormity of it.
00:47:48 Is.
00:47:50 more significant than the jobs that a I might or might not talk and
00:48:02 I can understand the language and people who are third. My age probably can't mostly either without the training but you really, you got to be a student.
00:48:12 You got to smell it and think about it and talk about it and talk with your friends about it. I'll talk with your colleagues about it and and really you never really pay attention. I think student note has always been important I said again, other than the good manners, the other thing that my mother did was she turned me into an intense reader by probably the age of 6. It was a little more cautious on that Dimension, but doesn't matter what the starting point was. But you know, bumps after books, after books were shoved into my hands and then my hands were, but you won't be able to keep up, but
00:48:55 Can you should for example as we happen to be having this conversation, we had the big hack of the giant Pipeline and people in the South back to the olden days. In long lines, to get gas, will the release of cyberweapons over the next ten or Twenty Years. God knows what it's going to do to us now. You probably can't understand unless your training is in that area, gotta love those, I can understand it, but I can be a lot more aware.
00:49:27 And a lot more thoughtful and I just, I won't refuse to use the word, keep up, because that's not the point. Just aware thoughtful engaged on this stuff. And if you do it enough, you got there and I hate you more than 25 people there. Definitely going to be a book club.
00:49:54 That's it. That's a great point. And then to me, we know I was a Classics major as an undergraduate and I didn't fully realize the value of the classics until later in my career, where I got all, we're talking about human nature. We're talking about things that have been the same for 5,000 years and look, if I can understand the patterns, then it doesn't matter. What AI or technology comes next. All be able to predict how humans are likely to react and I even Mark Cuban, you know, as as technologically advanced than investor as he is, he has that on the record many times that a Philosophy degree will be worth more in 10 years that an engineering degree because we need that the basics of ethics and collaboration and communication skills and things that a i and, and and machines aren't going to be able to bring to us. So
00:50:54 Receive money. Any place that doesn't have a blast, we made yours, but if you I'm not trying to Peddle cattle books, and so it's very easy to find it without buying a book somewhere in the book where I think. Maybe I talked about the read thing is a book reading list of about 6 books, all of which are why the liberal arts will dominate in the digital age. And, you know, I buy that in every every sense of the word it it makes perfect sense to me and I am jealous of your bitch session. My session is why when do the greatest universities in the world Cornell and Stanford. And each of them had a business school quad and Engineering quad, then they had the real quad with liberal arts. And I'm not sure there's like five years of Cornell.
00:51:54 5 years at Stanford but I could even find the liberal arts Squad girl, making its criminal. Is there I was a hundred yards from some of the greatest people and brains in the world. And I said,
00:52:20 What is the course? What the hell I am in an old man's walking group? We walk for a couple hours, every Sunday, one of my closest friends, I work for many years for the CIA and he said, he's a physicist and he was involved in taking the crappy film that came out of the belly of a U-2, spy plane, and cleaning it up and enhancing it with software. So that you could see if the bad guys had missiles part here or there, but we got to talkin about it and it wasn't the conversation. You and I are having it came out of nowhere, it away and he said, she knows Place damn thing. When I was in the CIA is he said there was a guy and kind of did what I did and he did better a lot. And I said, you know,
00:53:19 He said, guess what? I actually have a secret that I never have a team. That doesn't have at least one musician on it.
00:53:26 He said that person just said, I don't know what they do and I don't know how they do it and it doesn't matter. They just look at the world in a different way. And they ask questions that an MIT trained physicist or whatever would never asked. And he said, he said, I don't understand.
00:53:50 But it really work. I was just writing something and I said, if you got well, do you think we could say? There's a there's a write-up on how Google found. The stem was the least important thing in the world even Birches with the most important. But that's for another day and another conversation. But I just lost the, no, no, no, I text by teams without a musician, that's amazing and end music. A woman is a woman Emily Chang.
00:54:19 I believe I was in Silicon Valley for 30 years and almost made me throw up. It was called brotopia colon something like Breaking the Boys Club Med dallatee of Silicon Valley and it was loaded with awful stories. But the one thing, I remember this goes back there with its discussion to is. She said,
00:54:44 30 or 40% of people.
00:54:49 Writing code.
00:54:51 Facebook ad been women.
00:54:55 This is really important work here. She said the code would have had a different Sensibility.
00:55:04 And I love that word and you're the philosopher but that's ability is a high-powered work. It would just
00:55:12 Something would probably have.
00:55:15 Call different smell different. Tasted the Earth. And I'm not a Facebook or Zuckerberg fan and that's a gross understatement, but, but I thought it was really an incredible. Why? The book was awful, one of the joys of Twitter is being able to talk with people like that. Do I get off on there was so many of the people who are listening to us or probably over the age of 40. May remember the Enron Scandal and the woman is the cover off. It was a woman by the name of Sharon Watkins and thanks to Twitter, Sharon and I have a great conversation going on with it anyway.
00:56:04 Thank you so much for your time. Tom Peters, the book is excellent. Now extreme humanism, get it wherever fine, books are sold and continue in the pursuit of excellent. Next time. It was a great pleasure as many dimensions as I can. It was a wonderful experience. Thank you.
00:56:30 Each of us has the power of extreme humanism within us more than any process or technology-driven Improvement. The way we show up and treat each other is what will Define our excellent. Thank you for joining us and for being an advocate for Timeless and principled Leadership whenever and wherever you find it. I'm Scott money until next time, may you dream more learn, more do more and become more for you or leader.
00:00:14 Welcome to Timeless Leadership where we look at the principles that define success.
00:00:21 This is a show for leaders at all stages of their careers, who aspire to understand what it truly means to be a leader.
00:00:30 And who is a leader? John Adams said, if your actions Inspire, others to think more, learn more, do more, and become more, you are leader.
00:00:44 Together we'll explore key principles, not only in the sense of the fundamentals, but also in the ethical sense. The habits, character traits, and virtues that form the backbone of leadership.
00:00:58 Principles that are just as relevant and essential in the twenty-first century as they were in the first century. This is Timeless Leadership.
00:01:13 Hello and welcome to Timeless Leadership where we explore principles and virtues that accompany successful and admirable leaders. I'm Scott Monty. And if you aren't subscribed to the Timeless &Timely newsletter where I regularly cover these topics, please check it out at ScottMonty.com. This week, we're exploring Humanity.
00:01:33 Now, in an age of technological wonder where your face can unlock your phone and we can receive a same-day delivery after asking a smart speaker for a product, it seems to be a little odd to be talking about humanism and Humanity. The ancient philosophers knew the importance of humanity with their 10 essential virtues. Let's review them quickly just in case you forgotten. They're wisdom, justice, fortitude, self-control, humility, love, positivity, hard work, integrity, and gratitude. These days, we focus on numbers and hard skills and that tends to distract us from these core values. These softer attributes.
00:02:23 We focus on follower counts and views on social media. We deliver long-term strategies while being held to short-term financial results. And we're enamored with the fluctuating price of Bitcoin.
00:02:37 What if we stepped back and looked at what drives all of this?
00:02:42 People. Our relationships. And the excellence that we pursue.
Tom Peters has been chasing Excellence for 43 years. He received his bachelor's and master's degrees in engineering from Cornell and his MBA and PhD from Stanford focusing on implementation. Tom worked at McKinsey & Company from 1974 to 1981 in 1979. He founded their organizational effectiveness practice.
00:03:18 In 1981, he left to found his own Consulting and advisory firms.
00:03:26 With 19 books to his name. Tom has been honored by dozens of associations for his content on management, leadership, quality, Human Resources, campaigning for more women in senior leadership positions, customer service, innovation, marketing, and design. If you've never heard him speak, Tom Peters is what would happen if Dale Carnegie, Peter Drucker, and Red Bull had a baby. Hi final book is Excellence Now: Extreme Humanism.
00:04:03 Tom, welcome to Timeless Leadership.
Well, thank you and I'm not entirely, sure I have anything to say because that was the best. Not the introduction of me. That was the best introduction to the topic of leadership. I may have ever heard, it's my pleasure to interview you today. It was really it was really wonderful, absolutely fabulous. I commend you for that was cool. Seriously. Cool. Thank you. I'm I'm I'm humbled by that. I mean you are a a guru to many in the management and Leadership feel. I've certainly been following you for a long time. I've seen, I think the fruits of your labor from CEO. I used to work closely, with who, who espouse? It's a lot of the stuff you talk about. That's Allen Malawi at Ford Motor Company in it. It's it's interesting to me, because you and he are both Engineers by training and yet, here you
00:05:03 I said, with scads of books on the shelves, behind the so, talk to me a little bit about why an engineer would approach something as and, and I'm, I know, I'm going to get on your ear, bad side with this approaching something with the softer side, like humanism, and, and Leadership, and, and such
00:05:23 First, I'm going to challenge your language just a little bit. I did not consider myself an engineer. I consider myself a recovering engineer. I can spend the day answering that question, but who am I to answer it? And this is not looking for points or people to do whatever my parents had no money.
00:05:51 Effectively, I went to a little private school and my mother started teaching the 5th grade to pay my way through that school. I went to Cornell is an engineer every single penny of my tuition was paid by the United States Navy and in return, I gave them for years of my life and in the middle of my education. Lyndon Johnson did the same thing. I think George W. Bush did in Iraq, and that is made up an event and we were allowed to fight a war Vietnam, and I was a civil engineer.
00:06:31 And so the US Navy has a group of combat engineers called the c b and c b s e. A b e is for the cafe construction more than you need to know. They start off at at Guadalcanal at any rate I had an extraordinary engineering education so at some point in August of 1966, my c-141 starlifter lands in Danang Vietnam and I am a junior officer in charge of a detachment
00:07:14 In the middle, we weren't Marines, or Special Forces guys going out and getting shot at every night. I did not want to overplay it people or one that people were killed, but that was not the main part of it, but your support. So,
00:07:29 My first appointment was 9 months.
00:07:32 I came home. I wish was Maryland. Annapolis. Maryland, I went up to Cornell.
00:07:41 and I,
00:07:44 Uninvited.
00:07:46 Stormed into the engineering Dean's office, and I won't use the exact language ideas because this is a family gathering. But fundamentally I said you screwed me.
00:07:59 You gave me the best technical education known to humankind. I landed at midnight in August of 1966 and I was legally the chief petty officers actually run the Navy. I was legally responsible for the lives of a Detachment of 10 or 15 Sailors. And my leadership training at the grave Cornell University was Zippity Doo. Dah 0. They may have forced us to take a psychic or something like that and that is 1 of 2.
00:08:38 Formative moments. I don't like words like Epiphany in the company was, I will admit a little bit in retrospect but it was huge and yes, I said I'm not over blowing this thing that she's Petty officers run the Navy to start, run the army. They were really in charge, but legally, I was the legally responsible officer for the lives of fourteen or fifteen people in a combat zone, two things, one thing, it reminds me of it and another thing I want to go back to, but Peter front of us who was a Johns, Hopkins, ICU doctor and I suspect most of the people we were listening to us know a little bit about this invented, you stolen from the airlines. When she's the first person to save the checklist.
00:09:24 And the use of the checklist and Health Care is to help reduce the 200,000 unnecessary hospital deaths that dump a little crappy stuff. Not think things. But at any rate, there's a quote of Peters that I use in my new book and abused in general. And he said, during dinner what, what I just said he said during my years in medical school, I probably looked through a microscope, 180 hours, a skill, which I've never used. Once since I graduate, I had zero hours 0 minutes and 0 seconds of leadership training. And now, what am I doing? Leading / managing, and I see you.
00:10:14 And I don't want to go on forever with us, but I want to do just the the other epiphany.
00:10:20 I was working.
00:10:22 Mackenzie something, I used to be incredibly proud of and with their horrid in disgraceful, involvement in the Oxycontin thing. More recently, I don't get it. Big companies tend to get worse over time so that we might have time to discuss. But at any rate, Mackenzie supported, the research that he came in, search of a silenced my call, her mom. And I were in the San Francisco, Mackenzie office, and one fine morning. As it were, we drove down the road, 30 miles to Palo Alto to interview. The president, got a name of John Young, first of all, we live two floors below the CEO of the Bank of America and if you went up there and were offered a cup of tea, it was probably a teacup that came directly from Buckingham Palace.
00:11:17 The president of this billion-dollar company, John Young, his suite was an 8 foot by 8-foot cubicle with walls, that came up to about your chest. So John's going through, stop were questioning in the introduces us to this thing called the HP way. Nobody use the word culture in those days. We use the way we do things around here and in the middle of the weight loss pill cutter, the four, most important letters in my professional life mbwa or managing by wandering around in the point of that really, in the reason, I raise it.
00:11:59 Is I work for McKenzie? I was used to working with citicorp and Jason had back and all these big companies and suddenly young demonstrated that you could be running, a billion-dollar company and induce human intimacy and it was like holy shit, you can do that. You can walk out of your office and actually talk
00:12:24 And it really made me sound stupid in 2021, but it was an epiphany to understand exactly what the hell you said in your introduction is so we hear this is the best and that is some point.
00:12:39 Play Ronnie said come on. You guys want her with me for a while and I did you actually get use the word laundry. So we go in to, do you want to cross the road across the hall to one of the engineering spaces in the word bunch of Engineers? Probably you know, 29 2:38 would be the the major rain is so John talked to him the same way you and I thought it was nothing. Still did nothing formal. You know, they talked a little bit about engineering and he always automatically ask them what am I doing to make your life more miserable? And how can I reverse it? And they also talked about dropped passes at the 49ers game, the prior Sunday and so on, but it was professional, it was amiable, it was practically useful and then the topper and we were very unimportant people. So I damn. Well wasn't stayed for us. So he went over
00:13:39 Tonight is the guy over there that I'd like you to meet and the guy was some, you could kind of seats in the back of his head. He look like I do now. He was an old fart and he was talking to a young engineer dress dinner. Mackenzie black suit, black guys, flag shirts, Etc. Walk over with John. Who that was your 1977? An engineer still wore ties, but it was most casual shirt you've ever seen in your life has walked over and he said, Bob and Tom. There's somebody here, I'd like you to meet, I'd like you to meet Bill hulette. Fortunately, it wasn't being paid so you can see peeing. My pants Bill Hewitt,
00:14:30 The Packard of BHP David back or he was kind of a normal guy and handed all the money. But Bill was the guy who worked on the products, he was the engineer guy and he was having a comfortable conversation with somebody 26, 27 28. And they were chatting like a couple of peers. And, you know, this is a big computer screen days, but it was. Yeah, it wasn't the ten, great principles deprimo, got all ten of them, and it's in its own fashion. It was intimate, it was human. And then for the ones I've asked me to carry around MBA. It's also long-term the monster be the best way to make money and grow and I know you mentioned and we can talk about it. Perhaps the the end of the focus I've had on women's issues and I've said, I've had it for two reasons, won the literature says, women are better.
00:15:30 Leaders and two women by just about everything. And so my point is Ben. I do believe in social justice. I'm really interested in the social justice part of the women's issue. But that ain't what I'm talking about. I am talking about more active Enterprises and the people who buy your product. So it's hard ass and be a logic know. If you will be the best part of my education is it means that what I'm having talks about this Soft Stuff, you can't lay a finger on me. I have got my bases. Covered you ain't talkin to a philosophy major, you were talking to somebody with for quantitative degrees to engineer into businesses who is a combat veteran screw with me if you will. But I'm telling you the most important thing in the world is to walk.
00:16:30 Shop for zoom on the shop floor and have intimate conversations with people. And and I'm not telling you that as a guy who memorized all the Greek philosopher thought telling you that is somebody who could solve third order, differential, equations with both hands tied behind my back and it's really important. I've seen it and it makes me nauseated and talk when I'm focusing on women's issues and there's a woman who is speaking before me or I speak to these guys. Usually and say wake up. This is important that I can scream out of my can yell out of my to tell them they're idiots because I tell him that I'm an idiot to a woman and gets up there, not using my language. Max points that are a more pertinent and be have more data and you know, I had a shot going and I wish your you will have the video of this but there are
00:17:30 the brunt of their chest when you know when she speaks, which is
00:17:35 Call Al Jordan mobile that silly, but it's a passionate thing because so many of the other guests that had on it, it, it it feeds into each successive episode. I talked with Marilyn gist about leadership ability, and she was talking about Jim Saint, Edward Walker, she's an amazing woman Costco, you know, you walk into his office and he's got a 6-foot, you know, just a foldable table as his desk and he picks up his own phone when he can and answers his phone calls. I mean, it's it's that level of humanism and couple episodes ago, I had believe it or not. I had a practical philosopher on there is such a thing as practical philosophy.
00:18:35 Name of Tom Morris who goes around and visits lot of Corporations and we got to talking about how all of this wisdom. The topic was wisdom house. So much of this wisdom comes from our grandmothers and I want to pull the clip because Tom had something to say that you'll appreciate it, bro. The real deal of the people who are truly wise, whether it's somebody's grandmother, they grew up that person in your life. Yes. My grandmother is often. Not written down. We have the grandfather's, but we don't have many more white women riding down.
00:19:32 so what what can we do in end times worse to honor these women and to take their words of wisdom to Heart,
00:19:42 Imunch.
00:19:44 More brutal.
00:19:46 Then I used to be.
00:19:48 Maybe it's cuz I'm getting older and don't have that many more years left to scream and shout and wave my arms around.
00:19:56 What you can do is cut the crap, shut the hell up, and make sure if you're in a sizable company within 36 months 50% of your executive team as well. And, and if you're in a public company or private 50% of your board, quit screwing around. And if you dare tell me that you have a difficulty finding qualified women, I will not like that because I may die, I will be laughing so hysterically at that comment. And so you know,
00:20:31 You know, I don't I think I think I've got this right, but I said we're going to declare and we've come a long way, but we're going to declare a national holiday when a woman becomes a CEO and the day that we have more women CEOs of Fortune. 500 companies than we do men, whose first name is James,
00:20:54 I mean it's not like we're up to 41 women out of 500 but heinous, I've had it, I
00:21:02 You know, we're dealing with understanding more more everyday. The deaths of Art in a quality problems and I'm of an age where affirmative action was a big thing. Many salt is pluses that were minuses and so on, but I'm becoming his back to miss quit screwing around, I don't know. I'm not going to give you a medal when you've gotten your executive team to have for women instead of 3 out of 12 know. I'm going to give you a boot in the ass and say let's get going. Then you say, well we can't fire me up here, guys. I said by its band executive themed 18, and hit the 9 Mark, but no effing excuses and there is enough research to sink a battleship wood says, women are on average. There are great male leaders as you know and there are awful women.
00:22:02 On average, women are better leaders, better salespeople, better to go, she ate hers and better in bed, and my favorite book title ever met top. The Bible for god, sakes for the core and which will get me in trouble with various people, is LuAnn Loft and it's a senior person at Motley Fool and here's our book title
00:22:25 Warren Buffett, invests like a girl, and why you should too. And I love it. And when it came out, which is also terrific Papa hadn't heard about it, but he wrote the first review at Amazon that was the sweetest thing in the world. He said, you know, I don't know, I invested like a girl, but she's got it and the kind of things which speaks a lot of this is one example of you. And I were back to being offices for this discussion. You and I are sitting next to each other and we are Traders. And you had a really good day and I haven't had a great day and it's now 30 minutes before the market closes and I'll be goddamned if I'm going home with you. Having had a better day. So I start doing shit for the last 30 minutes.
00:23:25 Most of wood blows up, either that, or the next morning is that male testosterone, kicking in, and the research which is locked and it does says things like, women, don't do that kind of smartassery they'd actually think before they make decisions and so on. But it was a, what's my answer for the women's day? Quit screwing around. Its life is wonderful thing with some group.
00:24:00 Made it have a commitment dub, black lives matter and they were now it's mints and so on and a guy who had. So I think it's a headhunting, firm is an African American. Had a whole letter in each of the journal Wall Street Journal, New York Times and he said, this is wonderful what you've done for black lives matter. Will you please send me a photograph of your executive pay and that, which is where the rubber meets the road as they say in the world of Ford Motor Company's that other send me a picture of the executive team and then maybe we can talk about it. Well and it seems to me that over the last year or so, the pandemic has created an accelerator for allow companies to do a lot of innovative things and they know that would be part and parcel with it. Then you actually have a really interesting section. In your book called the leadership 7 / covid-19 you want to run through what those are and
00:25:00 Yes, I do. We can approach them.
00:25:05 when the pandemic started,
00:25:09 My wife.
00:25:11 Has done many things, but her start was at a tapestry as a tapestry Weaver, the big giant ones in City Island, in lobbies and so on, but nobody had masks and she and the bunch of other people started making masks and so I'm sitting in my home office and I said no, she said, she's actually trying to do something. Why are you sitting on your ass? And so with my colleague, Shelly, who, you know, we volunteered to be on podcasts or anywhere and arrogantly. Your we said, I will talk about leadership, amidst, the pan then I and out of that. Ain't this thing that I called the covid-19 leadership set and it sounds like the list you read at the beginning of this and then he respects be kind, be caring.
00:26:09 be patient be forgiving B+ be present, walk in the other person's shoes and my great-grand I suspect it's yours to is that
00:26:25 It has its happen in places, it hasn't happened but there is more of it.
00:26:31 Then there was a year ago and my great-grand a lot of people said this on many dimensions is the sum of these more Humane acts will stick. When covid-19 you. Hopefully, you know, reaches a stability point or the end or what have you. Let me see what my definition was my practical definition is I'm running a group of ten or fifteen people and we have three or four Zoom meetings a week and in whatever the last four months we've had 20 Zoom meetings and
00:27:13 Our friend. Dude, the finance person Mary as showed up or called bill. This is a gender-neutral point we'll call it Mary Bell. Mary Bell has showed up
00:27:27 On time for every one of the 20 meeting. And now we're doing a little evaluation and I say this person a little bit and that is your tennis record is so good. I know that you got two kids at home, I know that your wife or husband is teaching the 7th grade from the second floor. Be assumed. By the way, I know that your mother is in an assisted living place and we all know that's been problematic and I
00:28:04 Do what you need to do for your family yourself, your community. I am happy. As can be if you miss a meeting are happy, I'm happy. If you show up late, the four in a row but your productivity is not priority number one at this point and then, you know, and so that's my little Spiel for you. And then we put the asterisk on it, which is not what was going through my head. But guess what I did. I just didn't Kris productivity because something like, something like that, with a person like that, is going to lead them to focus more than ever perform or deal with their colleagues and so on. I mean, instead I did this, the part of me which is a, not quite recovered engineer, we are required to speak in equations and I did my equation which was k. Equal sign are equal sign p and that stands
00:29:04 Kindness equals, repeat business equals profit. And you know, I hope and you implied. This everything you're doing and it's coming from somewhere deeper than the implications on a spreadsheet. But the point is it is a wonderful thing. It's a magnificent thing.
00:29:28 David Brooks.
00:29:30 The New York Times columnist, add a column. I didn't get out of his book. One of his books, maybe it was a year ago.
00:29:38 and one of the most powerful things,
00:29:42 I never read.
00:29:44 He contrasted what he called resume virtues and eulogy virtues resume virtues are Tom went to Cornell, you graduated in the top, 10% of his class. Then he was a veteran that he went to Stanford and graduated in the top 10% of his class and then you have to work for McKenzie. Free time to watch TV or the rest of the resume Birches. Janice Brooks says, the the eulogy virtues or what do they say about you at your funeral.
00:30:20 And that's all about.
00:30:23 What your decency is a human being when I use have used in the past, PowerPoint slides. One of the ones I have is a plain grey Tombstone and audit is Joe, T, Jones, 19, black tooth 2021.
00:30:45 13782600 $12.04 net worth when the market closed on the day that he died. Well. That's my point. I just love the people is
00:31:13 So as you and I are talking, I don't know. I'll be going to see if we're at the end of your work day Thursday, what's your eulogy score for Thursday?
00:31:25 What's your eulogy score, again, I'm not going to buy for the sake of making it into a spreadsheet, but just go through and I have there been a couple of times, just a little bit farther reached out or Del Sol Hospital. You would with someone instantly one of the people that I command you to have is Betsy Myers and Betsy
00:31:54 Was the women's initiative executive, whatever you want to call it in the Clinton Administration. She what ran a women's program at an engineering school in the Greater Boston area called that late. She's now mainly coaching and she's a wonderful person. She has to be there Betsy Myers sister of eating Myers, who was the spokesperson for Glenn. But betsy bug
00:32:28 It's called take the lead and you implied this and the point is, any human being, maybe we'll say over the age of 10, but any human being can be a leader on any day and know, the way I've always said, is it's a, the temperature in my car, went over Saturday in yesterday for the first time this year, but it's a miserable.
00:32:57 Ann Arbor or
00:33:00 South Coast Massachusetts Day, in February, it is gray, and his cold. It is sleeting. And on the way to work in the F2 a duet thing we stop somewhere and there's a little florist and you spend all of ten bucks pick up a little bunch of flowers and you come into the office and you go to the the coffee area and put them in a little pot somewhere and stick them on the receptionist desk or something like that, as an act of pure unmitigated unbridled leadership, just a grade-a. That's what leadership is all about.
00:33:39 That's what leadership is all about. So I want to jump back there just a little bit. You talked about eulogy virtues vs. Resume virtues. What do you hope to have on your Tombstone? Tom
00:33:54 Well.
00:33:56 My third book, which is thriving on chaos was devoted was dedicated to two people. One of them was William, William Donald Schaefer, who at the worst of times and there's some bad times. Now, was the mayor of Baltimore and to say that he turned Baltimore around this actually
00:34:19 Pretty good and not hyperbolic statement. And I went to the big event, which was his retirement celebration and Mary Schafer got up after all the other words and in the middle of his presentation, he said I would like to have a tombstone. And I would like you to have it out to work on it care.
00:34:47 And that'll work for me and you know it's right in this book. As you pointed out is my 19th. I said you know, Brady guy I'd love to have the royalty. I'd love to have you go out and buy all 19 of my books. I would cash the royalties Jack but here's the Dirty Little Secret. They all say exactly the same thing.
00:35:13 Yeah, it's 19 efforts to say, do your wandering around. Talk to the kids, bring the flowers behave like a decent human being. There's there's a, there's a quote from the great novelist Henry James, which I love and you probably know this one free things in human life are important. The first is to be kind, the second is to be kind. And the third is to be kind at Selanne, the whole point of what I've been doing for, as I point out the new book, 43 years. Since the research started is basically saying,
00:35:53 Be thoughtful because I be sharing focus on people. And I believe in you hinted that this earlier on it's far more important in the age of artificial intelligence than ever before the ability to stand out. I write a lot about 9 with you have products that move you. There was, there's a little quote, from a guy wrote a book called emotional designer's name is Donald Norman is a social psychologist by training, but he quotes in there it's the I think it's the the Mini Cooper, whatever it is Mini Cooper 8 or something like that. I think many of us know that car and eat close to Riverview and the reviews said, no car and recent memory has caused more smiles.
00:36:40 Now that's me is the best advertisement statement, whatever you want. And I think all of our service is being a Consulting bday. Podcasting, bday coaching, United States into the deepest, ennismore smiles, more interaction, more Humanity. Yeah, I think that's the way you stay ahead of the curve. I would also say and I know you have all sorts of people on
00:37:14 I know I'm really old but even if I was 25 years younger, I know that an insane amount of stuff is going to happen in the next 15 to 20 years.
00:37:27 But here's the secret.
00:37:31 First, you got to make it to this afternoon.
00:37:34 Life.
00:37:38 5 years from now, we'll be changed.
00:37:42 But the elements will be significantly. Recognizable my last book, before the current one was called the Excellence dividend, which was the Publishers chosen title.
00:37:58 I had an alternative title, which is plays a big role in the new book. And the alternative title was Excellence is the next 5 minutes.
00:38:08 Excellence is not a hill to climb Excellence. Is not an aspiration. Excellence will go at to ask, but it could be you and I having this discussion is after the meeting, lets out,
00:38:25 And Mary or same Sam, didn't contribute much. They were smiling much in their exceptional. People is you spend three minutes in the hall and say, you never, frown and kids are going to just have a little human. Three-minute interaction with somebody and you know that the whole world is changed for everybody and the Enterprise is changed by that. So, you know, that's really my message its Excellence is the next 5 minutes or it is nothing at all and we had to find out what you're doing. We are doing rather, is whatever I've been doing.
00:39:08 What's my current singing? I've been doing for forty odd years.
00:39:13 At this moment.
00:39:16 At this moment.
00:39:20 With all those years and all those 2500 speeches, and all those 19 books, and all those engineering Grace at this moment.
00:39:31 The only thing in my life that matters is the quality of our conversation.
00:39:39 this is that obviously if I had my wife was suffering from covid-19 or what have you but but this is it
00:39:49 I don't understand what happened before half an hour ago and I have no idea what's going to happen to half an hour from now, but this exchanges, you know, I'm doing my best to give me 43 years or actually 78 years. I didn't have the grandmother but I had it in one generation later which was my mother. And she, she was a Virginian by birth and some things happened in the South, but don't always make me happy and that's actually understatement, but the one thing I said, I know your mother loved me here. Certainly think so. But the most important thing she gave me with Southern manners,
00:40:32 Manners is a sound step, but it's, yeah, I said he won't understand my mother. You're opening Christmas presents is pretty big pile for you. You're a kid of Thirteen or something, whatever. And you're halfway through and your mother calls, a halt and the hall is so that you can write the thank you notes in the first half of the presents that you received and borders on exaggeration, but not by much. And then I said the other day that I said at the people because sometimes they almost get assaulted, I said I call nineteen-year-old.
00:41:11 711 clerks. Yes ma'am or yes sir. Because I am not allowed not to do that by my mother who has now been dead for 16 years and that doesn't matter noise. Well your support of all this.
00:41:32 My wife and I, I'm 70 hd70, and we wanted to see if you know who had her kind of life in order if something had. And so we had somebody who helps us with finances. And I remember it's the third time when it clicked Barbara Martin is the one that I work with, and I got an email from her and I don't know what it was about and I could have been Social Security Medicare, who knows? But the email started out with hi Tom, space. Better than
00:42:10 Space have a good day, Barbara.
00:42:16 Honest-to-god, a white bulb went off for me. I thought holyshit
00:42:23 it's next to the human conversation.
00:42:26 And it's either. It's trivial, but it's not trivial at all. And I have a great friend as a psychiatrist and I made this comment to him and you didn't quite last. I said, Steve.
00:42:42 If you are boss and you will show me your last 10, 10 line or more emails, I can do a complete American Psychiatric association quality diagnosis of you as a human being and he said exaggeration. But it is that you know, this is.
00:43:10 Do you just are you guys moving so fast that everything I do and no Humanity to? It is all. And where, where's the high Tom Wright World changes when you when you, when you read that high time, I don't know how it changes. But, you know, I'm not a neuroscientist but there are neuroscientist now by the hundred and they know that all sorts of Waverly, diggle, these happened in your head when somebody says thank you or somebody says I'm sorry, you're somebody says hello and the Brain. Just go Zippity Doo Dah Day. Yeah, but it's interesting because, you know, technology has allowed us to do so much of this so much faster and to reach so many more people but at the same time, it's allowed us to forget the essentials of what's important in human relationships. Just yesterday and my newsletter I talked about the importance of the Pickle Barrel. Do you have a pickle Barrel in your life? Now this is going probably farther back than
00:44:10 Then I will certainly further Back to Me, Maybe farther back than you the old General Store when when that was the center of the town's existence and you will go in there for everything from, you know, your postage stamps, go to flour, to canned goods, there would be a pickle Barrel there, and they usually be a guy sitting next to it and it take the lid off and you have a conversation, right? And it would become the center of the community and you didn't just go in for a transaction, you were part of an intricate community and a relationship, whether you like it or not, that you had to deal with other people in a kind and a polite Manner and we kind of need some version of that to return again. Are we getting better or worse because of Technology?
00:44:58 I,
00:45:00 I'm not in anyway, here's my answer.
00:45:06 I was at dinner.
00:45:09 The really big deal.
00:45:12 Investment guy was not Warren Buffett but I'm almost at late in the middle of dinner and turn to me.
00:45:21 Is a private dinner solo, not read some name. You turned me any said time. Do you know what the biggest failing of CEOs is? And I was born a smartass and I said, no I don't. I can think of 50 but I can't narrow it down to one any, they didn't crack a smile. It does smile last night that kind of thing. But he said they don't read enough.
00:45:45 they don't read enough and
00:45:49 That's mainly.
00:45:52 My answer to you regardless of your age regardless of your position.
00:45:59 Because of this change, you have got to become an intense student in a way that makes your. If you have one, PhD, studies look like small change. And the reason I veered to that is I was
00:46:19 about to try to answer your question and I was going to kind of refer to
00:46:27 some of these things that say that the kids, there's a new generation on name, the people who were born on the day that the iPhone was released or later and you seen it and I seen it and you see a couple or 4 people sitting down at a dinner in a restaurant back when we used to do those things and all four of them were looking at their iPhones
00:46:53 And they message each other now because of my age or your age that's pretty damn antisocial. But that's not the point. The point is back to my neuro biological illusion again. A couple minutes ago is screwing with her brain.
00:47:15 And you have referred to. I remember what the, what the comments you weren't? I don't know if mr. Baris or whatever it was but you learn to do, Zoom better.
00:47:29 Etcetera. But there's some big stuff going down with this technology. Shirley turkle. Is that her name has been writing about this and then she served UC Berkeley, maybe for years and years and years. But the enormity of it.
00:47:48 Is.
00:47:50 more significant than the jobs that a I might or might not talk and
00:48:02 I can understand the language and people who are third. My age probably can't mostly either without the training but you really, you got to be a student.
00:48:12 You got to smell it and think about it and talk about it and talk with your friends about it. I'll talk with your colleagues about it and and really you never really pay attention. I think student note has always been important I said again, other than the good manners, the other thing that my mother did was she turned me into an intense reader by probably the age of 6. It was a little more cautious on that Dimension, but doesn't matter what the starting point was. But you know, bumps after books, after books were shoved into my hands and then my hands were, but you won't be able to keep up, but
00:48:55 Can you should for example as we happen to be having this conversation, we had the big hack of the giant Pipeline and people in the South back to the olden days. In long lines, to get gas, will the release of cyberweapons over the next ten or Twenty Years. God knows what it's going to do to us now. You probably can't understand unless your training is in that area, gotta love those, I can understand it, but I can be a lot more aware.
00:49:27 And a lot more thoughtful and I just, I won't refuse to use the word, keep up, because that's not the point. Just aware thoughtful engaged on this stuff. And if you do it enough, you got there and I hate you more than 25 people there. Definitely going to be a book club.
00:49:54 That's it. That's a great point. And then to me, we know I was a Classics major as an undergraduate and I didn't fully realize the value of the classics until later in my career, where I got all, we're talking about human nature. We're talking about things that have been the same for 5,000 years and look, if I can understand the patterns, then it doesn't matter. What AI or technology comes next. All be able to predict how humans are likely to react and I even Mark Cuban, you know, as as technologically advanced than investor as he is, he has that on the record many times that a Philosophy degree will be worth more in 10 years that an engineering degree because we need that the basics of ethics and collaboration and communication skills and things that a i and, and and machines aren't going to be able to bring to us. So
00:50:54 Receive money. Any place that doesn't have a blast, we made yours, but if you I'm not trying to Peddle cattle books, and so it's very easy to find it without buying a book somewhere in the book where I think. Maybe I talked about the read thing is a book reading list of about 6 books, all of which are why the liberal arts will dominate in the digital age. And, you know, I buy that in every every sense of the word it it makes perfect sense to me and I am jealous of your bitch session. My session is why when do the greatest universities in the world Cornell and Stanford. And each of them had a business school quad and Engineering quad, then they had the real quad with liberal arts. And I'm not sure there's like five years of Cornell.
00:51:54 5 years at Stanford but I could even find the liberal arts Squad girl, making its criminal. Is there I was a hundred yards from some of the greatest people and brains in the world. And I said,
00:52:20 What is the course? What the hell I am in an old man's walking group? We walk for a couple hours, every Sunday, one of my closest friends, I work for many years for the CIA and he said, he's a physicist and he was involved in taking the crappy film that came out of the belly of a U-2, spy plane, and cleaning it up and enhancing it with software. So that you could see if the bad guys had missiles part here or there, but we got to talkin about it and it wasn't the conversation. You and I are having it came out of nowhere, it away and he said, she knows Place damn thing. When I was in the CIA is he said there was a guy and kind of did what I did and he did better a lot. And I said, you know,
00:53:19 He said, guess what? I actually have a secret that I never have a team. That doesn't have at least one musician on it.
00:53:26 He said that person just said, I don't know what they do and I don't know how they do it and it doesn't matter. They just look at the world in a different way. And they ask questions that an MIT trained physicist or whatever would never asked. And he said, he said, I don't understand.
00:53:50 But it really work. I was just writing something and I said, if you got well, do you think we could say? There's a there's a write-up on how Google found. The stem was the least important thing in the world even Birches with the most important. But that's for another day and another conversation. But I just lost the, no, no, no, I text by teams without a musician, that's amazing and end music. A woman is a woman Emily Chang.
00:54:19 I believe I was in Silicon Valley for 30 years and almost made me throw up. It was called brotopia colon something like Breaking the Boys Club Med dallatee of Silicon Valley and it was loaded with awful stories. But the one thing, I remember this goes back there with its discussion to is. She said,
00:54:44 30 or 40% of people.
00:54:49 Writing code.
00:54:51 Facebook ad been women.
00:54:55 This is really important work here. She said the code would have had a different Sensibility.
00:55:04 And I love that word and you're the philosopher but that's ability is a high-powered work. It would just
00:55:12 Something would probably have.
00:55:15 Call different smell different. Tasted the Earth. And I'm not a Facebook or Zuckerberg fan and that's a gross understatement, but, but I thought it was really an incredible. Why? The book was awful, one of the joys of Twitter is being able to talk with people like that. Do I get off on there was so many of the people who are listening to us or probably over the age of 40. May remember the Enron Scandal and the woman is the cover off. It was a woman by the name of Sharon Watkins and thanks to Twitter, Sharon and I have a great conversation going on with it anyway.
00:56:04 Thank you so much for your time. Tom Peters, the book is excellent. Now extreme humanism, get it wherever fine, books are sold and continue in the pursuit of excellent. Next time. It was a great pleasure as many dimensions as I can. It was a wonderful experience. Thank you.
00:56:30 Each of us has the power of extreme humanism within us more than any process or technology-driven Improvement. The way we show up and treat each other is what will Define our excellent. Thank you for joining us and for being an advocate for Timeless and principled Leadership whenever and wherever you find it. I'm Scott money until next time, may you dream more learn, more do more and become more for you or leader.
