(00:00:00) Podcast Clip of Dr. Rhonda Patrick on Sauna Benefits to Increase Health Span EP 275

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Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Coming up
next on the passion struck
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podcast. And this is one of the
most profound effects of the
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sauna. So there's been
epidemiological studies, these
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are observational studies
looking at correlations. And
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people that use the sauna four
to seven times a week have a 46%
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reduced risk of hypertension.
But there's also been
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intervention studies so people
that are into the sauna for 30
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minutes, and blood pressures and
measured blood pressure is
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improved. Both systolic and
diastolic blood pressure is
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improved after the sauna.
There's a pretty profound effect
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on blood pressure, which is not
only important for
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cardiovascular health, it's
extremely important for brain
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aging and brain health. In fact,
it's one of the most important
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lifestyle factors for preventing
dementia.
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John Miles: Welcome to passion
struck. Hi, I'm your host, John
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are miles and on the show, we
decipher the secrets, tips and
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guidance of the world's most
inspiring people and turn their
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wisdom into practical advice for
you and those around you. Our
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mission is to help you unlock
the power of intentionality so
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that you can become the best
version of yourself. If you're
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new to the show. I offer advice
and answer listener questions on
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Fridays. We have long form
interviews the rest of the week
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with guests ranging from
astronauts to authors, CEOs,
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creators, innovators,
scientists, military leaders,
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visionaries and athletes. Now,
let's go out there and become
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passion struck. Hello, everyone,
and welcome back to Episode 275
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of passion struck drink by Apple
is one of the top 20 Health
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podcasts thank you to each and
every one of you who comes back
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weekly to listen and learn how
to live better, eat better and
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impact the world. And if you're
new to the show, thank you so
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much for being here. Or you
simply want to introduce this to
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a friend or family member. We
now have episodes starter packs,
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which are collections of our
fans favorite episodes that we
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organize into convenient topics
that give any new listener great
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way to get acclimated.
Everything we do here on the
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show either go to Spotify or
passion stripe.com/starter packs
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to get started. And in case you
missed it last week, we had
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three amazing interviews. The
first was with Harvard professor
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Arthur Brooks, and we discussed
his number one New York Times
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best selling book from strength
to strength. I also interviewed
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Susan Max Salman, who is the
founder and director of the
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International arts and mind lab
center for Neuro esthetics at
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the Peterson Brain Science
Institute at the Johns Hopkins
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School of Medicine and we
discuss her brand new book your
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brain on art. Lastly, I
interviewed Seton Hall Law
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School professor Gaia Bernstein,
and we discuss her brand new
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book unwired gaining control of
addictive technologies. Please
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check them out if you hadn't had
a chance. And if you'd like
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today's episode or any of those,
we would so appreciate it if you
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gave us a five star rating and
review which goes such a long
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way in bringing more people into
the passion star community where
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we can give them weekly doses of
hope, meaning and action and
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inspiration. Now let's talk
about today's episode. The
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practice of using heat for
purification, cleansing and
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healing has ancient roots and is
observed in many cultures today
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you can find many variations of
this practice from the bad news
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of Russia the sweat lodges of
American Indians and the famous
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saunas of Finland sauna use also
known as sunbathing involves
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passive exposure to extreme heat
or short duration of time
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exposure causes mild
hyperthermia, which triggers a
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thermo regulatory response
involving various mechanisms
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restore homeostasis and prepares
the body for future heat
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stressors. In my interview today
with Dr. Rhonda Patrick, who is
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a renowned scientist and health
educator, we discuss why in
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recent years Sana Baden has
gained popularity as a way to
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improve overall health and
increase lifespan backed by
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compelling data from
observational interventional and
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mechanistic studies. She
explains how the ongoing OPO
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ischemic heart disease risk
factor study which is followed
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over 2300 middle aged men from
Eastern Finland has shown strong
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associations between sauna use
and reduced risk of disease. We
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discussed why using the sauna
two to three times per week was
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associated with only 4% Lower
all cause mortality and four to
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seven times per week decreased
all cause mortality by 40%. We
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discussed the most effective
intervention to extend your life
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and prevent chronic disease the
new implications of scientific
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discoveries for increasing your
lifespan and Rundas personal
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sauna regimen. Rhonda Patrick
earned her doctoral degree in
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biomedical science from St.
Jude's Children's Research
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Hospital at the University of
Tennessee Health Science Center
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has become one of the leading
public health educators on the
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brain and general health aging
answer and nutrition Rhonda is
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the host of the popular found my
fitness podcast and is a
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frequently requested speaker who
challenges the status quo and
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encourages the wider public to
think about health and longevity
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using a proactive preventative
approach. Thank you for choosing
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passion struck and choosing me
to be your host and guide on
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your journey to creating an
intentional life. Now, let that
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journey began.
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I am absolutely thrilled and
honored to have Dr. Rhonda
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Patrick on passion struck.
Welcome, Rhonda.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Thanks,
John. It's a real great pleasure
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to be here. I'm excited to have
our discussion all things health
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and longevity today.
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John Miles: Well, I have
consumed your content for a very
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long time. And I have to say you
are really, if not the first
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scientist, one of the first to
really bring rock solid academic
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content to the masses. So thank
you, for all that you've done.
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Over the years, there have been
a lot of people who followed
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after your start.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Thank you, I
enjoy what I do. It's nice to
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make a difference in people's
lives and feel good about it.
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John Miles: Well, before we jump
into the interview, I did want
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to give you a chance to talk
about your fabulous podcast
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found my fitness. But I thought
we'd just jump into that right
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off the bat because I think it's
such a valuable source for so
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many of the listeners of my
show.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Oh, I
appreciate it. Yes, I do have a
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podcast called found my fitness.
And I always enjoy getting new
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listeners. I do interviews with
experts. Most of the time. They
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are scientists, researchers,
physicians that are doing
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research in the fields of health
and medicine, and breaking down
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some of the low hanging fruit
lifestyle factors that on the
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science behind them in terms of
what people can do to improve
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the way they feel and the way
they're aging, improve their
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disease risk, lower their
disease risk in that sense. You
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know, we put out a variety of
great shows and episodes, we
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have one we just did on
Alzheimer's disease. And so you
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can check that out on Spotify,
Apple podcasts, YouTube, the
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podcast is found my fitness. So
thank you,
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John Miles: as the audience who
are regular listeners know, I've
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had a number of recent guests on
the show talking about
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longevity, science and reverse
aging. People like Mark Hyman
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Kara Fitzgerald, Amy Shaw, and
we'll call and I know this is an
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area that you specialize in as
well. Rhonda, however, I've
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gotten a lot of feedback from
the audience that they want to
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do more of this, but some of the
things that they hear maybe from
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David Sinclair or others are
cost prohibitive, and I was
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hoping that you could share some
of your more cost effective
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secrets that can go a long way
and helping the listeners
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increase their health span.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Well, I can
certainly speak two factors that
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I think are important for
healthy aging things that I
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personally am doing in my own
life, and also things that I
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think are low hanging fruit. In
other words, things that are not
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so difficult for people to do
what I focus on in my own life,
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as I head into my mid 40s is
really an important one, I think
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the most important one that
doesn't really cost any money
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because you can do it anywhere
for free is short bursts of
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vigorous exercise. So I mean
getting your heart rate up to an
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estimated 80% max heart rate for
short periods of time. And we
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can dive into this a little bit
later. But I think it's hugely
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important for improving the way
our brain is aging and also
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improving our overall health of
our cardiovascular health and
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other organs in our body as
well. So you can do a sprint,
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you can do you could do some
burpees. I mean, these things
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don't require equipment that
don't require a gym membership,
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right? They just require effort.
So really, you have to be
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willing to put an effort and so
cost prohibitive is one thing,
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what I've noticed is one of the
biggest barriers in that people
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tend to have is the effort
barrier. So if you could just
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bottle up exercise in a pill, I
mean, it would be the most anti
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aging pill you would ever find
like there's nothing more
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powerful and more potent in
improving the way you age,
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delaying age related diseases
and proving your mental health
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the way you feel, then exercise
and particularly vigorous
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exercise. So that's one two, I
really think there are a lot of
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low hanging fruit, things that
we can reach in terms of our
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micronutrient deficiency. So
these are about 40 or so
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essential vitamins, minerals,
fatty acids, amino acids, that
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we can get from our diet, we
need to get from our diet
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because our body requires them
we don't make them in our body.
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However, most people are not
eating diets that are getting
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adequate amount of certain
micronutrients. And one of the
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micronutrients is actually even
made from sun exposure. So this
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would be vitamin D. It's
actually much More than a
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micronutrient, it's a hormone
steroid hormone regulates more
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than 5% of our human genome. And
many genes are important for
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brain function making serotonin,
for example, which regulates the
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way you feel regulates your
executive function, your memory
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learning, but also the vitamin D
regulates your immune function
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and the way your immune system
is working, how you're able to
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fight off infectious diseases,
how that our immune system is
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working with age. So most people
nowadays, we spent a lot of time
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inside. We spent a lot of time
on our laptops in our cubicles
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doing podcasts here. I mean,
we're not outside doing farming,
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like we did pre industrial era,
right. So many people are not
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making enough vitamin D in their
skin. If you look at a lot of
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these National Nutrition and
Health Surveys, and Haynes,
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about 70% of people in the
United States do not have
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adequate levels of vitamin D
that would be blood levels of
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the precursor to the hormone of
about 30 would be the lowest
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amount to 30 nanograms per
milliliter. Ideally, if you look
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at meta analyses of a variety of
different studies published over
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the last 30 year, people that
have blood levels of 25 hydroxy
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vitamin D is actually the
biomarker that's measured when
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you go to the doctors and get
your blood vitamin D measured
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between 40 to 60 nanograms per
milliliter is the ideal range in
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terms of people have the lowest
all cause mortality. In other
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words, they are less likely to
die earlier in life from many
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different non accidental causes
of death, cancer, respiratory
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disease, heart disease,
neurodegenerative disease, for
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example. So vitamin D
supplements are one of the
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cheapest supplements that you
can buy, it's pretty much like a
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penny a pill, at least it was
before a lot of the inflation
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hits. So I mean, it's definitely
a cheap vitamin. And as I said,
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70% of the US is not getting
enough vitamin D globally. Even
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if you go to places like Egypt
or Saudi Arabia, a lot of people
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particularly women are covered
up when they're out in the sun.
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As we get older, we our bodies
are less efficient at making
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vitamin D from the sun. In fact,
we're 70% or so less likely to
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to make enough vitamin D from
the sun. So there's a lot of
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reasons that a vitamin D
supplement can be a very low
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hanging fruit and easy way to
kind of get you up to an
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adequate status. Another one
magnesium is something that's
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also required for vitamin D to
actually be converted into the
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steroid hormone. So it's not
just enough to have the vitamin
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d3 supplement your body
converted into this steroid
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hormone. Estrogen is a steroid
hormone. Testosterone is a
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steroid hormone. People are very
familiar with these steroid
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hormones. Well imagine if 70% of
the US population was deficient
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in testosterone, like that would
be big people would be thinking
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about it. So thinking about
vitamin D, in terms of the fact
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that it's a steroid hormone, it
is regulating our expression of
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our genes, it's important. Well,
magnesium is required to
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actually convert that vitamin d3
into the active steroid hormone.
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It's also required for a variety
of enzymes that are involved in
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what's called DNA repair. So
this is something just living
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metabolize. Every time we eat
food, every time we breathe in
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oxygen, we are converting it
into energy. And that whole
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process that we call metabolism
is a wonderful thing. But also
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as a byproduct of it, we are
damaging our cells, we're
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damaging our DNA. And that's
happening constantly. And over
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time, eventually, the DNA gets
damaged and a part of it that
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can lead to cancer, a mutation
that can lead to cancer. So DNA
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repair enzymes in our body are
repairing that damage all the
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time. But for those DNA repair
enzymes to work they need
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magnesium, magnesium is what's
called a cofactor for them to
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work. Well, almost half the
country doesn't get enough
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magnesium. Why is that? Well,
magnesium is that the center of
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a chlorophyll molecule and
chlorophyll is what give plants
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their green color. People aren't
eating enough greens. And so in
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order to get enough magnesium,
yes, you can supplement.
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Magnesium, you do need to be a
little careful with
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supplementing with magnesium,
there's different forms of it.
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Many of the forms are pretty
equivalent, if you're looking at
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magnesium citrate, or magnesium
malaise to magnesium glycinate.
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These are all pretty
bioavailable. But as you start
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to get higher doses above 150
milligrams, that could cause a
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little bit of a laxative effect,
I guess, is a good way of
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putting it. So I personally like
to get my magnesium from my food
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by eating more greens. It's also
really it's magnesium is found
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in nuts. Almonds are a great
source. And these are all really
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helpful foods to eat. We're just
not eating enough of them. So
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again, a low hanging fruit, eat
your greens, green, it's not
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that expensive to buy ahead of
organic or romaine lettuce or
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kale, right? You need a handful
of almonds right a day. So those
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are also a couple of great ways
to increase magnesium. I focus
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on that as well. But in addition
to that Harvard came out with a
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study back in Gosh, it must have
been 2009 that identifying Omega
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three as one of the top six
preventable causes of death.
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like up there with basically not
smoking and Omega three, and it
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was actually it was omega three
from marine sources. So this
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would be EPA and DHA, they're
both found in fatty fish, fish
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oil supplements are also another
way to get omega three. And we
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can dive into that a little bit
later, if you want. A lot of
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00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,970
studies have come out Bill
Harris's group has published a
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study recently looking at all
cause mortality, and what's
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called the Omega three index,
this is a way to measure your
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Omega three levels long term. So
it's a red blood cell, you're
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looking at omega three levels in
red blood cells, which take
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about 220 days to turn over
versus what I would say 99% of
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all Omega three blood tests that
you look at their plasma, which
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is really more reflected of what
you've eaten a couple of days
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before, you want your long term
status. So omega three index is
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a way to go for that. And people
that have an Omega three index
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high, so 8%, or more, which by
the way, is unheard of, in the
268
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United States, United States to
the average Omega three index is
269
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about four to 5%. Japan, they
have an 8% Omega three index,
270
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but people in the US that do
have an Omega three index of 8%
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or more, have a five year
increased life expectancy
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00:16:10,410 --> 00:16:14,220
compared to people in the US
that have a 4% Omega three index
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and mega three supplementation
is another thing I really do
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focus on, it's easy to go from
4% to 8% through supplementation
275
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of around two grams a day, Omega
three has the safety profile of
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a nutrient, but the
pharmacological effect, so it is
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00:16:30,660 --> 00:16:35,520
prescribed as a pharmaceutical
drug by physicians to treat high
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00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,610
triglycerides, for example. And
this is doses that are
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prescribed are like up to four
grams a day. So again, it's one
280
00:16:42,270 --> 00:16:45,330
of those easy, low hanging
fruit, people are not eating
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00:16:45,330 --> 00:16:49,020
enough fish. And it's pretty
easy and relatively cost, I
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think effective to supplement
within Omega three supplements.
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So I also choose to do that. And
then on top of my exercise, I
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also do the sauna, I do a form
of heat stress on the sauna, I
285
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know we were going to dive into
that in many ways. The sauna
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also mimics moderate
cardiovascular exercise. And
287
00:17:07,380 --> 00:17:10,650
that's also there's been studies
looking at the effects of sauna
288
00:17:10,650 --> 00:17:13,920
on all cause mortality, which
also have been shown to reduce
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00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:16,320
be associated with reduced all
cause mortality as well. So we
290
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,800
can dive into that as well. But
those are a few of the things I
291
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,330
do also focus on my sleep. But I
will say sleep. And there's a
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variety of easy things you make
making sure you're not drinking
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caffeine later in the day making
sure you are not being exposed
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00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,290
to bright blue light, when
sunsets like that's all the
295
00:17:34,290 --> 00:17:38,100
lights in the house should
either be really dim, or they
296
00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:41,190
should be read so that your
brain it doesn't think it's
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still daytime, sleeping in a
quiet cold room also helps. But
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I will say this exercise and I
as when it's funny because when
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I became parent, a mother about
five years ago, as all new
300
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:57,330
parents experience, you don't
get sleep, and there's nothing
301
00:17:57,330 --> 00:18:01,290
you can do. No health hack. I
mean, you can't like you aren't
302
00:18:01,290 --> 00:18:04,740
you have to attend to your baby,
right? So you're stuck, right?
303
00:18:04,740 --> 00:18:08,640
There's no little trick that you
can stop yourself from the sleep
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deprivation that you will
experience for a good year, I
305
00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:16,500
would say this and at that time
was wearing a continuous glucose
306
00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:20,040
monitor, which basically was a
way to measure my blood glucose
307
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,730
levels daily. And one of the
most interesting things I found
308
00:18:23,730 --> 00:18:27,870
from wearing it's called a CGM,
continuous glucose monitor. A
309
00:18:27,870 --> 00:18:30,300
lot of people ask me, oh, what
foods do you eat? Like what did
310
00:18:30,300 --> 00:18:32,520
you find? And I'll tell you,
what's the most interesting
311
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,150
thing I found was that my lack
of sleep was the thing that
312
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:39,810
caused my fasting blood glucose
and my postprandial blood
313
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glucose. So the my blood glucose
that rises after a meal to go
314
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:49,170
out of control, in some cases,
almost pre diabetic, okay, was
315
00:18:49,470 --> 00:18:52,710
the fact that my sleep was being
disrupted and it was so
316
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:56,880
profound, I was like, This is
insane. I can't believe this,
317
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,090
like I would never have known
that just disrupting my sleep
318
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would put me into this, like,
metabolically unhealthy
319
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category. And then I started
doing my high intensity spin
320
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classes. I was like, okay, like
I was able to get a moment was
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like after the first couple of
months, and it was clear that
322
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doing my high intensity
exercise, totally reversed my
323
00:19:25,950 --> 00:19:30,000
high blood glucose, both fasting
and postprandial it normalized.
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00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,270
I was back even though I was
still sleep deprived. I was back
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to what I normally was like. And
so I started diving in the
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00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,390
literature. And sure enough,
there's multiple studies showing
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00:19:39,390 --> 00:19:42,810
specifically high intensity
interval training and getting
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00:19:42,810 --> 00:19:47,370
that vigorous exercise getting
your heart rate up high, does
329
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,480
basically forgive the metabolic
effects of sleep deprivation.
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00:19:51,810 --> 00:19:54,960
And there's also been a very big
epidemiological study looking at
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00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:59,640
all cause mortality and sleep
deprivation, getting shorter
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00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,950
sleep better Rate duration, I
can't remember off the top of my
333
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head, I think it was six hours
or less or something like that a
334
00:20:05,070 --> 00:20:08,280
night was associated with a
higher all cause mortality. So
335
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,860
people were more likely to get
heart disease, cancer or
336
00:20:10,860 --> 00:20:14,130
respiratory disease sooner in
life, right and die from it. But
337
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,680
only in people that were not
physically active. In other
338
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,100
words, again, exercise can
forgive a lot of sins. And so
339
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:24,420
I'm not saying don't focus on
sleep, but I'm saying the number
340
00:20:24,420 --> 00:20:28,050
one thing to focus on is
exercise. So, with that long
341
00:20:28,050 --> 00:20:31,620
winded answer, John, let's dive
into whatever you'd like to.
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00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:35,550
John Miles: Well, I'm gonna just
go back to the supplements just
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00:20:35,550 --> 00:20:39,000
for a second. It's interesting.
I know a mutual friend of ours
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is Dom D'Agostino. He lives
right up the road for me here in
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00:20:42,210 --> 00:20:46,440
Tampa. And when he was on the
show, he said, as you did that,
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magnesium is one of the most
overlooked supplements that can
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00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:56,490
have one of the biggest benefits
to our health. I was hoping when
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00:20:56,490 --> 00:21:00,750
you talk about whether it was
vitamin D, the magnesium you get
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00:21:00,750 --> 00:21:03,090
it from plants. But if someone
wanted to take a supplement, and
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also omega threes, can you give
what dosages you would recommend
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and then with each they take him
in the morning or at night?
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00:21:11,820 --> 00:21:12,840
Well, certainly,
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00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:17,460
Dr. Rhonda Patrick: I can speak
to what I do, and perhaps speak
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00:21:17,460 --> 00:21:20,070
to some of the science I'm not a
medical physician. So I can't
355
00:21:20,070 --> 00:21:23,850
recommend anything to anyone.
With respect to magnesium. As I
356
00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:26,700
mentioned, there are different
forms of it. I take most of my
357
00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:30,060
supplements at nighttime after
dinner. And magnesium is one of
358
00:21:30,060 --> 00:21:33,780
those I do take magnesium
glycinate. And I think it's
359
00:21:33,780 --> 00:21:40,620
around 130 milligrams or so the
RDA for women is about 350
360
00:21:40,620 --> 00:21:44,580
milligrams a day. For men, it's
about 400 a day. And that level
361
00:21:44,580 --> 00:21:49,740
can go up for physically active
people that are exercising,
362
00:21:49,770 --> 00:21:52,680
people that are also going into
the sauna can go up anywhere
363
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,910
between 10 Even 20% for like
endurance athletes. And so
364
00:21:56,940 --> 00:22:00,690
oftentimes, you can find also
electrolyte supplements as well,
365
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,480
because you do lose some
magnesium from sweat, you're
366
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,360
mostly losing a lot of sodium,
but you do also lose some
367
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:11,520
magnesium. So the 125 or 30
milligrams or so a day that I
368
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,970
supplement with, I do that to
also make sure that I'm meeting
369
00:22:14,970 --> 00:22:19,680
my 350 daily requirement. And I
do take it at night. There's
370
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,440
some anecdotal evidence that
magnesium may also help with
371
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,880
sleep. And so I don't know how
solid that science is. But like
372
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,480
I do take mine at night with
respect to vitamin d3 is
373
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,930
definitely better than vitamin D
two, which is the plant version
374
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:39,090
of Omega three, sorry, vitamin
D. And the vitamin d3 is has
375
00:22:39,090 --> 00:22:42,000
been shown to be superior in a
couple of studies to vitamin D
376
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:47,160
to for people that are vegan or
vegetarians, a better source of
377
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:52,350
vitamin D would be like in so
like in is a plant source, but
378
00:22:52,350 --> 00:22:55,800
it is vitamin d3. So that would
be better than getting the
379
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,730
vitamin D to unfortunately, a
lot of the fortification of
380
00:23:00,150 --> 00:23:05,430
dairy and milk and nut milk
products are vitamin D two, it
381
00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:09,000
is what it is measuring blood
levels is key for vitamin D,
382
00:23:09,030 --> 00:23:13,170
because we have a lot of genes
that regulate how our body is
383
00:23:13,170 --> 00:23:16,170
metabolizing vitamin D, how we
respond to vitamin D
384
00:23:16,170 --> 00:23:20,160
supplements. And so you really
need to get a vitamin D blood
385
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,620
tests preferably before and
after, but definitely after
386
00:23:22,620 --> 00:23:26,460
supplementation to make sure
you're doing an adequate dose.
387
00:23:26,910 --> 00:23:30,930
And for myself, I'm typically
taking about 5000 or so I use a
388
00:23:30,930 --> 00:23:35,790
day. And my blood levels are
hovering around 50 nanograms per
389
00:23:35,790 --> 00:23:38,850
milliliter. Now some people
might need to take more than
390
00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:44,820
that, on average, it takes about
1000 I use a vitamin d3 to raise
391
00:23:44,850 --> 00:23:50,220
blood levels around five
nanograms per mil. So that's
392
00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:53,580
just a kind of rough, I guess,
guideline. But again, a blood
393
00:23:53,580 --> 00:23:58,320
test is absolutely essential for
vitamin d3. In terms of figuring
394
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,200
out the optimal, everyone's
different. And so again, the
395
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,610
range to be in ideally would be
40 to 60 nanograms per
396
00:24:05,610 --> 00:24:09,540
milliliter. Most people can get
that with around four to 5000. I
397
00:24:09,540 --> 00:24:13,680
use a day perhaps some people
live close to the tropics, and
398
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,920
they're out in the sun a lot and
they maybe require less. But
399
00:24:17,070 --> 00:24:19,140
again, only a blood test is
going to tell you that
400
00:24:19,140 --> 00:24:21,510
information with respect to
vitamin A started with Omega
401
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:24,930
three and I talked about the
Omega three index and I've
402
00:24:24,930 --> 00:24:28,920
measured mine the company that
does that as omega quant and
403
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,280
they're really good because I
did the it's a long term marker
404
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,460
of Omega three, most all of the
studies that have been done
405
00:24:35,460 --> 00:24:39,420
using and looking at the Omega
three index have shown that an
406
00:24:39,420 --> 00:24:46,140
Omega three index of 8% or more
is ideal with respect to lower
407
00:24:46,140 --> 00:24:50,550
all cause mortality, I 50%
Dementia risk on and on in terms
408
00:24:50,550 --> 00:24:54,630
of health status. So many
Americans unfortunately as I
409
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:58,890
mentioned are have an Omega
three index of about 4%. Studies
410
00:24:58,890 --> 00:25:05,160
have shown It takes around two
or so grams of Omega three
411
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:10,140
supplementation, EPA and DHA per
day to bring someone up from a
412
00:25:10,140 --> 00:25:14,430
4% Omega three index to an 8%,
on average. But again, test
413
00:25:14,580 --> 00:25:18,570
everyone is different. The best
way to know if your two grams a
414
00:25:18,570 --> 00:25:20,820
day is getting you up there
would be to do an Omega three
415
00:25:20,820 --> 00:25:25,980
index test. Now I personally
take a pretty large dose of
416
00:25:26,010 --> 00:25:30,150
Omega three and I do take it
throughout the day by take about
417
00:25:30,180 --> 00:25:35,610
close to anywhere between two to
three grams of a higher dose of
418
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,330
EPA Omega three, which I still
get, oh, DHA. Also, I have a
419
00:25:39,330 --> 00:25:43,620
higher EPA ratio in the morning.
And then in the evening, I take
420
00:25:43,620 --> 00:25:48,300
about two to three grams of a
higher DHA dose. So on average,
421
00:25:48,330 --> 00:25:52,140
I personally again, I take a
experimentally high dose of
422
00:25:52,140 --> 00:25:55,170
Omega three, I'm getting
anywhere between four to six
423
00:25:55,170 --> 00:25:58,230
grams a day, depending on the
day. And the reason I take it
424
00:25:58,230 --> 00:26:01,620
throughout the day is there's
two reasons behind my rationale.
425
00:26:01,740 --> 00:26:05,070
It's my personal rationale, I
may be overdoing it, I may be
426
00:26:05,070 --> 00:26:07,620
making things harder on myself,
like science may come out and
427
00:26:07,620 --> 00:26:09,630
say oh, the end just wants you
just once a day you want it
428
00:26:09,630 --> 00:26:13,290
done. So again, this is my
personal routine. When we take
429
00:26:13,290 --> 00:26:16,920
our DHA or EPA, there are
metabolites called specialized
430
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:22,350
pro mediators. And these are es
PMS, they are resolvins
431
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:25,410
medicines protections, there are
metabolites that are resolving
432
00:26:25,410 --> 00:26:29,250
inflammation. And it's been
shown that blood levels do rise
433
00:26:29,250 --> 00:26:33,090
after taking a supplement of
Omega three DHA and EPA of these
434
00:26:33,090 --> 00:26:36,720
s PMS. And so I kind of want a
constant flow of them in my
435
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,760
blood and my circulation
throughout the day. So that's
436
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,990
one reason why I do take it
twice a day. The other reason is
437
00:26:42,990 --> 00:26:46,290
that you mentioned gut health,
there's evidence that so every
438
00:26:46,290 --> 00:26:48,900
time we eat a meal, there's
something called postprandial
439
00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:52,410
inflammation. The bigger the
meal, the bigger the effect,
440
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,920
it's unavoidable. Okay, I
mentioned metabolism generating,
441
00:26:55,950 --> 00:26:58,740
I mean, it's damaged these
oxidative stress products, well,
442
00:26:58,740 --> 00:27:01,260
it just eating a meal, you're
gonna have an inflammatory
443
00:27:01,260 --> 00:27:03,570
response, and there's no way
around it. Part of that
444
00:27:03,570 --> 00:27:06,420
inflammatory response is the
release of something from our
445
00:27:06,420 --> 00:27:10,260
gut, called endotoxin, or LPs,
it's present in the cell
446
00:27:10,260 --> 00:27:13,950
membrane of bacteria in our gut
is where all the microbes are
447
00:27:13,950 --> 00:27:18,300
present, right. And when it gets
released into the circulation,
448
00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:22,650
it's inducing an inflammatory
response, which also results in
449
00:27:22,650 --> 00:27:26,430
an upregulation of low density
LDL cholesterol protein
450
00:27:26,460 --> 00:27:29,310
production as well, which is a
whole other tangent, I won't go
451
00:27:29,310 --> 00:27:32,100
there. Today, there's clinical
evidence that'll make three
452
00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:36,660
blunts that LPS response, which
is the major part of the
453
00:27:36,660 --> 00:27:41,310
inflammatory response from the
gut. So I also like to have the
454
00:27:41,310 --> 00:27:43,680
Omega three with my biggest
meal, which is in the morning,
455
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,500
and my other biggest meal, which
is in the evening. So I also
456
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:49,830
this is kind of my rationale.
And in terms of like getting the
457
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:52,830
supplements looking for a
quality supplements, there's a
458
00:27:52,830 --> 00:27:55,620
variety of third party testing
sites, I like to use a great
459
00:27:55,620 --> 00:28:00,150
one, pretty comprehensive is
consumer lab, they test a bunch
460
00:28:00,180 --> 00:28:03,270
of supplements to look for
quality contaminants, including
461
00:28:03,270 --> 00:28:07,290
Omega three. And so oftentimes,
you'll actually be able to find
462
00:28:07,290 --> 00:28:10,590
cost effective way you can get a
quality supplement that's not
463
00:28:10,590 --> 00:28:13,410
like the highest cost supplement
out there. International fish
464
00:28:13,410 --> 00:28:16,740
oil standards website, I F O S
is another website specifically
465
00:28:16,740 --> 00:28:20,370
focusing on omega three fish oil
supplements. It's a lot harder
466
00:28:20,370 --> 00:28:22,680
to sift through their data, you
got to really put some effort
467
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,620
in, but they're another resource
as well. So
468
00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:29,160
John Miles: okay, well, I'm glad
I'm taking all three of the
469
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,250
things that you're recommending.
I do the magnesium and d3 at
470
00:28:32,250 --> 00:28:36,990
night, and I do very high omega
threes as well. I unfortunately
471
00:28:36,990 --> 00:28:39,600
suffered some traumatic brain
injuries when I was in military
472
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,590
service. And actually one of the
doctors who treats me Dr.
473
00:28:44,370 --> 00:28:47,340
Michael Lewis was a colonel in
the military when he was on
474
00:28:47,340 --> 00:28:51,750
active duty for seven years, he
led the DoD Task Force looking
475
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:56,010
at Veterans suicide and
traumatic brain injury. And he
476
00:28:56,010 --> 00:29:00,660
said the number one indicator
that they found in both cases
477
00:29:00,660 --> 00:29:04,350
where people were significantly
low on omega threes, and when
478
00:29:04,350 --> 00:29:07,920
they introduced omega threes
into both populations, they saw
479
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:13,080
dramatic changes in health
outcomes and people reversing
480
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,100
the suicidal thoughts and
tendencies. So lots of research
481
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:20,490
here, but ever since I've been
working with him, I take it both
482
00:29:20,490 --> 00:29:24,210
in the morning and at nighttime
as well. glad my science I'm
483
00:29:24,210 --> 00:29:27,270
hearing is the same thing that
your research has found as well.
484
00:29:27,810 --> 00:29:29,010
Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Well,
there's actually a lot of
485
00:29:29,010 --> 00:29:32,700
evidence that has emerged over
the last decade look or meet
486
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:35,790
more more than not even maybe
last couple decades looking at
487
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,360
specifically even DHA
supplementation with respect to
488
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,470
TBI and traumatic brain injury,
a lots of animal studies for one
489
00:29:43,470 --> 00:29:47,640
but also some human studies
showing that it really does seem
490
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,520
to make a big difference with
respect to lowering the Glasgow
491
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,130
score. I think that it's called
when they do like they're
492
00:29:53,130 --> 00:29:55,380
measuring and so omega three has
been shown to be important for
493
00:29:55,380 --> 00:29:59,910
that. And interestingly,
traumatic brain injury is like a
494
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,340
insult in real time, almost that
sort of accelerates brain aging
495
00:30:05,340 --> 00:30:08,400
in the sense that with
increasing TBI is you have a
496
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,100
much higher risk of Alzheimer's
disease, which is the most
497
00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:14,820
common form of dementia and, and
basically blood brain barrier
498
00:30:14,820 --> 00:30:18,570
breakdown. And it's in this is
really interesting because blood
499
00:30:18,570 --> 00:30:23,490
brain barrier breakdown seems to
be at the core root cause of all
500
00:30:23,490 --> 00:30:26,850
forms of dementia including
Alzheimer's disease. And TBI
501
00:30:26,850 --> 00:30:30,690
also causes that the AP for
allele the biggest genetic risk
502
00:30:30,690 --> 00:30:33,000
factor for Alzheimer's disease
causes blood brain barrier
503
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,030
breakdown, type two diabetes,
one of the major lifestyle
504
00:30:36,330 --> 00:30:39,270
factors that increases the risk
of of Alzheimer's disease also
505
00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:41,640
breaks down the blood brain
barrier. And this is what's so
506
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,380
interesting, John is that there
is a transporter in the brain
507
00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:50,520
that transports DHA into the
brain a certain form of DHA
508
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,600
phospholipid form. It's called
MFS, D to A and those
509
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,660
transporters when you disrupt
them, the blood brain barrier
510
00:30:57,660 --> 00:31:02,460
breaks down. And also TBI, those
transporters go away with aging,
511
00:31:02,460 --> 00:31:05,460
they go away. But
supplementation with DHA, at
512
00:31:05,460 --> 00:31:07,890
least in animal studies has
shown to increase those
513
00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:10,410
transporters. In other words
that are responding. When you're
514
00:31:10,410 --> 00:31:14,520
bringing in more omega three,
the brain is responding by going
515
00:31:14,550 --> 00:31:17,160
I need to increase this
transporter to get more of that
516
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,460
DHA into the brain. So there's a
lot of what's called mechanistic
517
00:31:20,460 --> 00:31:24,990
insight into partly why the DHA
supplementation is so important
518
00:31:24,990 --> 00:31:28,260
not only for prevention of
dementia, and Alzheimer's
519
00:31:28,260 --> 00:31:31,230
disease, but also for people
that have undergone a traumatic
520
00:31:31,230 --> 00:31:34,500
brain injury or that are in some
sort of lifestyle, like the
521
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:39,690
military or combat of sports
should be absolutely focusing on
522
00:31:39,690 --> 00:31:42,660
making sure they are taking
their Omega three and getting
523
00:31:42,660 --> 00:31:45,450
enough of the DHA omega three in
their diet.
524
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:48,540
John Miles: If you want to go
back to sleep and exercise,
525
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,500
sleep is extremely important
because it's the cleansing
526
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:55,920
mechanism where you're getting
rid of the amyloid plaque and
527
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,040
it's getting flushed. And if
you're not getting enough sleep,
528
00:31:59,070 --> 00:32:02,100
which happens to a lot of people
who've gone through traumatic
529
00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:06,150
situations or traumatic brain
injuries, you're not flushing
530
00:32:06,660 --> 00:32:09,990
the system. And a lot of it ends
up building up which as you can
531
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:13,830
then lead to Alzheimer's and
dementia and ALS and other
532
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:14,400
things.
533
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,670
Dr. Rhonda Patrick: So we'll get
this John, the when the blood
534
00:32:17,670 --> 00:32:21,240
brain barrier breaks down your
brain is inefficiently flushing
535
00:32:21,270 --> 00:32:25,560
those amyloid aggregates and
other debris out of the brain,
536
00:32:26,190 --> 00:32:29,580
even when you sleep. And so
fixing the blood brain barrier
537
00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:33,000
is again at the root. It's one
thing it's I mean, if you think
538
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,480
about it, like if your blood
brain barrier, it's made of
539
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,780
vasculature and if it's
compromised, how you're going to
540
00:32:39,780 --> 00:32:43,350
be squirting the stuff into the
brain to wash it out. Right when
541
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:46,530
the vasculature is falling
apart. Yes, sleep is key. You're
542
00:32:46,530 --> 00:32:49,830
absolutely right. It's it's one
of the main times that our brain
543
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:53,610
is squirting the cerebrospinal
fluid through the brain or the
544
00:32:53,610 --> 00:32:57,660
glymphatic system is active to
rinse out all those toxins. But
545
00:32:57,660 --> 00:33:00,840
again, it's even it's less
efficient. And people that have
546
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,380
done undergone a TBI, or do have
Alzheimer's disease and their
547
00:33:04,380 --> 00:33:06,420
blood brain barrier is
compromised, and so becomes a
548
00:33:06,420 --> 00:33:08,430
vicious cycle, right? Because
then you're not getting rid of
549
00:33:08,430 --> 00:33:11,100
the amyloid. It's accumulating
more and more. And so it's
550
00:33:11,130 --> 00:33:15,240
probably one of the reasons why
TBI does increase Alzheimer's
551
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,550
disease risk is the blood brain
barrier breakdown and the fact
552
00:33:17,550 --> 00:33:21,060
that they're not efficiently
cleaning out the amyloid as well
553
00:33:21,060 --> 00:33:23,250
as people that don't have that
basically, breakdown of the
554
00:33:23,250 --> 00:33:24,090
blood brain barrier.
555
00:33:25,050 --> 00:33:26,970
John Miles: No, you're
absolutely right. And it's
556
00:33:26,970 --> 00:33:30,420
something that because I've had
these things, I have put a lot
557
00:33:30,420 --> 00:33:33,030
of effort and time studying
because I'm trying to do
558
00:33:33,030 --> 00:33:38,280
everything I can now to make
sure I don't have a long term
559
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,360
repercussions that I think
through the blood testing work
560
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,000
that I get done and the
supplementation and the sleep
561
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,390
hygiene and other things I'm
trying to make sure I'm not
562
00:33:48,390 --> 00:33:51,690
going to have these issues later
on in life. Well, Rhonda, we've
563
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,050
just deep dive on a couple of
very important areas for the
564
00:33:55,050 --> 00:33:58,110
audience. If I have time, I
might come and revisit a few of
565
00:33:58,110 --> 00:34:00,990
those. But I know one of the
things that the audience really
566
00:34:00,990 --> 00:34:04,380
wanted to hear about is right
now exposure to extreme
567
00:34:04,380 --> 00:34:08,610
temperature really seems to be
the rage. And we both know that
568
00:34:08,610 --> 00:34:11,730
temperature is a powerful
stimulus. And I wanted to ask
569
00:34:11,730 --> 00:34:18,300
you could you go into a little
bit of how to cold and heat kind
570
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:21,660
of overlap when we subject
ourselves to them? Where do you
571
00:34:21,660 --> 00:34:24,720
find the differences between the
two different stressors.
572
00:34:25,529 --> 00:34:29,069
Dr. Rhonda Patrick: The idea
behind exposing ourselves to
573
00:34:29,099 --> 00:34:37,079
intermittent stress is
beneficial in many ways because
574
00:34:37,109 --> 00:34:39,629
we have all these genes in our
body that are waiting to be
575
00:34:39,629 --> 00:34:42,269
pressed the buttons are waiting
to be pushed their stress
576
00:34:42,269 --> 00:34:46,319
response genes they react to
stressed and it's something that
577
00:34:46,319 --> 00:34:50,069
throughout human history. We've
pushed these buttons from the
578
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:55,439
times of our physical exertion
hunting, trying to get food for
579
00:34:55,439 --> 00:34:59,189
our families right or running
from a threat. So so that was
580
00:34:59,189 --> 00:35:02,579
the physical act. tivity type of
intermittent stress exercise,
581
00:35:02,579 --> 00:35:07,019
right? There's periods of not
eating food, we didn't always
582
00:35:07,019 --> 00:35:11,039
have Instacart and basically get
our groceries delivered to our
583
00:35:11,039 --> 00:35:13,889
door whenever we want it. That's
another type of intermittent
584
00:35:13,889 --> 00:35:17,939
stress like periods of not
eating right. And also, we've
585
00:35:17,969 --> 00:35:20,999
throughout our human history
eating plants. These are plants
586
00:35:20,999 --> 00:35:25,499
that have compounds in them,
like sulforaphane present in
587
00:35:25,499 --> 00:35:29,039
cruciferous vegetables like
broccoli sprouts or resveratrol
588
00:35:29,249 --> 00:35:32,669
present in the skin of grapes,
or curcumin in the tumeric.
589
00:35:32,669 --> 00:35:36,539
Root. Like these are compounds
that are used by plants to ward
590
00:35:36,539 --> 00:35:40,379
off insects to ward off fungi,
they're toxic to those animals.
591
00:35:40,379 --> 00:35:43,649
But when humans ingest them,
they activate stress response
592
00:35:43,649 --> 00:35:47,909
pathways. So we have a whole
host of genes in our body, that
593
00:35:47,909 --> 00:35:53,099
are just sitting around waiting
to be turned on by some types of
594
00:35:53,099 --> 00:35:55,469
what's called intermittent
stress. This is actually good
595
00:35:55,469 --> 00:35:59,459
forms of stress. Now there's
obviously chronic stress. When
596
00:35:59,459 --> 00:36:01,769
we think of the word stress we
usually think of as the bad
597
00:36:01,769 --> 00:36:05,189
types of stress. So the kind of
stress, financial stress, social
598
00:36:05,189 --> 00:36:08,189
stress, relationship stress, the
emotional stress, psychological
599
00:36:08,189 --> 00:36:12,119
stress, the the kind of PTSD
kind of stress, right, those are
600
00:36:12,119 --> 00:36:15,929
the chronic types of stress that
are causing rumination are
601
00:36:15,929 --> 00:36:19,439
causing the inflammatory
response to increase, it's not
602
00:36:19,439 --> 00:36:22,889
the good type of stress, whereas
the short bursts of like intense
603
00:36:22,919 --> 00:36:27,899
like stress, from exercise or
also from the heat. So that's a
604
00:36:27,899 --> 00:36:32,309
another type of intermittent
stress. And cold is also another
605
00:36:32,309 --> 00:36:35,339
type of intermittent stress. And
you asked how these types of
606
00:36:35,339 --> 00:36:40,229
stressors overlap. There's a lot
of contrast there for sure. And
607
00:36:40,259 --> 00:36:44,549
a little bit of similarity as
well. And the similarity has to
608
00:36:44,549 --> 00:36:47,399
do with what I was talking
about. We have these genes are
609
00:36:47,399 --> 00:36:52,439
called stress response genes.
And they oftentimes are genes
610
00:36:52,439 --> 00:36:56,759
that activate antioxidant
pathways, they're helping negate
611
00:36:56,759 --> 00:37:00,449
some of the oxidative stress
that happens just from normal
612
00:37:00,449 --> 00:37:03,299
aging, normal metabolism, but
also from other things like air
613
00:37:03,299 --> 00:37:06,479
pollution and ionizing radiation
and factors that are a little
614
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:11,099
bit external to us, right? Well,
there's also activation of anti
615
00:37:11,099 --> 00:37:14,279
inflammatory pathways, pathways
that are negating inflammation,
616
00:37:14,279 --> 00:37:17,999
because when you do expose your
body to this short term
617
00:37:17,999 --> 00:37:20,819
stressor, it does release a
little bit of an inflammatory
618
00:37:20,819 --> 00:37:24,779
response. But the body responds
in such a way that it produces
619
00:37:24,809 --> 00:37:28,439
anti inflammatory molecules,
often cytokines and other
620
00:37:28,439 --> 00:37:32,309
molecules to a more robust
degree such that the net effect
621
00:37:32,339 --> 00:37:36,929
is anti inflammatory, right and
it's last it's a lasting effect.
622
00:37:36,959 --> 00:37:39,599
There's other stress response
pathways that have to do with
623
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:44,009
repairing damage, DNA damage, or
getting rid of stuff, gunk,
624
00:37:44,129 --> 00:37:47,099
cellular debris, things floating
around inside cells, while one
625
00:37:47,099 --> 00:37:50,549
of the stress response pathways
is also activated by many
626
00:37:50,549 --> 00:37:53,759
stressors, including temperature
changes, and they're called Heat
627
00:37:53,759 --> 00:37:58,109
Shock proteins. Heat Shock
proteins, as their name implies,
628
00:37:58,109 --> 00:38:02,219
they do robustly respond to
elevations in core body
629
00:38:02,219 --> 00:38:04,259
temperature, whether we're
talking about from physical
630
00:38:04,259 --> 00:38:07,589
activity like exercise, that
elevates core body temperature,
631
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:11,249
or we're talking about the
ambient temperature change, like
632
00:38:11,429 --> 00:38:15,749
sitting in a sauna, dry, hot
sauna, or even an infrared
633
00:38:15,749 --> 00:38:20,579
sauna, or sitting in a hot tub
or hot bath. These are also
634
00:38:20,609 --> 00:38:23,969
increasing temperature and they
increase the production of
635
00:38:23,969 --> 00:38:27,479
something called Heat Shock
proteins. Heat Shock proteins
636
00:38:27,509 --> 00:38:33,179
basically help our proteins
inside of ourselves, maintain
637
00:38:33,179 --> 00:38:35,399
their proper three dimensional
shape so that they're not
638
00:38:35,399 --> 00:38:38,519
aggregating together. So heat
shock proteins play an important
639
00:38:38,519 --> 00:38:41,759
role. You mentioned amyloid
plaques earlier will amyloid
640
00:38:41,759 --> 00:38:46,289
beta plaques form because they
basically start to become
641
00:38:46,289 --> 00:38:50,159
misfolded. And when they become
misfolded, they aren't cleared
642
00:38:50,159 --> 00:38:52,649
out properly, we our system has
a way of getting rid of
643
00:38:52,649 --> 00:38:55,589
proteins. And that doesn't
happen. And so they start to
644
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:58,649
aggregate and form plaques. This
can happen in the brain in terms
645
00:38:58,649 --> 00:39:01,439
of amyloid beta plaques, it can
happen in the cardiovascular
646
00:39:01,439 --> 00:39:04,199
system as well. So heat shock
proteins play a role in
647
00:39:04,199 --> 00:39:07,079
preventing that aggregation and
in helping these proteins
648
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:10,829
basically stay in their proper
shape and form. He check
649
00:39:10,829 --> 00:39:15,509
proteins are activated by cold
as well, because they respond to
650
00:39:15,509 --> 00:39:18,449
stress, not just temperature,
temperature does robustly
651
00:39:18,449 --> 00:39:21,989
activate them. But cold stress
can also activate heat shock
652
00:39:21,989 --> 00:39:26,669
proteins. So I think that's one
overlap between I would say the
653
00:39:26,669 --> 00:39:29,969
heat stress and the cold stress
these two types temperature
654
00:39:29,999 --> 00:39:33,359
intermittent stress forms.
Another overlap between the two
655
00:39:33,389 --> 00:39:37,829
would be the release of what's
called norepinephrine. So
656
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:43,439
norepinephrine is it's a hormone
that is produced in circulation,
657
00:39:43,709 --> 00:39:46,439
and it regulates regulates
everything from basal
658
00:39:46,439 --> 00:39:50,069
constriction to heart rate, but
it's also a neurotransmitter
659
00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:54,329
that can produce be produced in
the brain. Now, cold exposure
660
00:39:54,689 --> 00:39:58,379
robustly activates nor
epinephrine and it is partly
661
00:39:58,379 --> 00:40:01,169
also one of those things that is
a stretch response, right? The
662
00:40:01,349 --> 00:40:04,769
stress kind of activates it,
which is why heat also activates
663
00:40:04,769 --> 00:40:09,239
norepinephrine, cold very
robustly activates it. And in
664
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,259
the brain cold exposure in the
brain is norepinephrine. And you
665
00:40:13,259 --> 00:40:17,309
can also measure that in plasma.
And anywhere literally 20
666
00:40:17,309 --> 00:40:21,569
seconds at like 40 degree
Fahrenheit, water can increase
667
00:40:21,569 --> 00:40:25,199
it to fold. So those are some
overlaps. There's also some
668
00:40:25,199 --> 00:40:31,439
contrasting effects. So for
example, heat stress increases
669
00:40:31,439 --> 00:40:35,309
vasodilation says blood flow,
whereas cold causes
670
00:40:35,309 --> 00:40:38,519
vasoconstriction does the
opposite. But when it comes to
671
00:40:38,549 --> 00:40:41,669
the some of the similarities, I
would say, those are some of the
672
00:40:41,669 --> 00:40:45,539
top factors that come to my mind
with respect to like going from
673
00:40:45,539 --> 00:40:48,869
hot to cold, we can get into
that a little bit. But there are
674
00:40:48,869 --> 00:40:51,569
some cultures that do practice
that, for example, Finland,
675
00:40:51,569 --> 00:40:54,659
where Saunas are ubiquitous,
they're very common, most people
676
00:40:54,659 --> 00:40:58,499
have a sauna, a personal sauna
at their home. And there's
677
00:40:58,499 --> 00:41:02,009
public saunas that people can
freely use them as well. A lot
678
00:41:02,009 --> 00:41:05,549
of the Finns also go from the
hot sauna into the cold. And
679
00:41:05,549 --> 00:41:08,429
they kind of do that back and
forth as well. Not a lot of
680
00:41:08,429 --> 00:41:11,099
science, looking at that there's
a little bit it is something
681
00:41:11,099 --> 00:41:13,589
that is commonly practiced in
some cultures like Finland, and
682
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:14,939
also I think, Russia as well.
683
00:41:16,410 --> 00:41:19,110
John Miles: And I'd be
interested in understanding what
684
00:41:19,110 --> 00:41:22,500
led to your interest in saunas
to begin with,
685
00:41:23,970 --> 00:41:26,220
Dr. Rhonda Patrick: my answer
will probably surprise you. So
686
00:41:26,220 --> 00:41:31,080
my interest in saunas began back
in around 2009, when I was a
687
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:36,300
graduate student trying to
eagerly earn my PhD. And I lived
688
00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:39,330
in an apartment, a studio
apartment across the street from
689
00:41:39,330 --> 00:41:44,190
a YMCA. And so on my graduate
student stipend, which was not
690
00:41:44,190 --> 00:41:48,390
very much, I was able to get a
reasonable membership to the
691
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:51,660
YMCA. And so I would go over
there and they had a sauna. And
692
00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:55,830
I would use the sauna in the
mornings. For I would go into my
693
00:41:55,830 --> 00:42:00,330
research lab before I would do
my experiments for the day. And
694
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,570
graduate school is a very
stressful time as anyone who is
695
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,650
pursuing a higher degree, can
attest, it's extremely
696
00:42:07,650 --> 00:42:10,830
stressful. In the natural
sciences field experiments fail
697
00:42:10,830 --> 00:42:13,170
all the time, and you have to
change protocols, you have to
698
00:42:13,170 --> 00:42:17,910
get things right. It's a lot of
stress. And so what I really
699
00:42:17,910 --> 00:42:22,260
began to notice is that my going
to the sauna before going into
700
00:42:22,260 --> 00:42:26,190
the lab, was affecting my
anxiety and my ability to cope
701
00:42:26,190 --> 00:42:29,970
with the stress that I was
experiencing from being a
702
00:42:29,970 --> 00:42:34,980
graduate student. And it was
quite noticeable, in fact, so
703
00:42:34,980 --> 00:42:39,240
noticeable that I was convinced
that there was something going
704
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:43,260
on in my brain, the sauna was
affecting me somehow. And so I
705
00:42:43,260 --> 00:42:46,500
started to read into this
science trying to look and
706
00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:51,090
understand, how is it possible
the sauna could be affecting my
707
00:42:51,090 --> 00:42:54,540
mood? How is it affecting my
ability to cope with stress my
708
00:42:54,540 --> 00:42:59,490
anxiety level, and at the time,
I was connecting some dots, and
709
00:42:59,490 --> 00:43:02,280
there wasn't a direct, it wasn't
like there was a direct study
710
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:07,470
looking at the effect of sauna
on anxiety or even depression,
711
00:43:07,470 --> 00:43:10,530
which also kind of goes hand in
hand a little bit with anxiety.
712
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:13,260
Since then, there has been some
research but back then there
713
00:43:13,260 --> 00:43:16,260
wasn't. And so at the time, I
was kind of looking into the
714
00:43:16,260 --> 00:43:20,730
fact that the sauna, potently
releases beta endorphins, those
715
00:43:20,730 --> 00:43:24,510
are the feel good opioids that
we produce in our brain, that we
716
00:43:24,510 --> 00:43:27,780
produce them when we laugh at a
joke, or we give someone we love
717
00:43:27,780 --> 00:43:31,290
a hug or a kiss or we're
experiencing joy. We make we
718
00:43:31,290 --> 00:43:34,410
jump out beta endorphins. Well,
you also jump out beta
719
00:43:34,410 --> 00:43:36,810
endorphins, when you're
exercising, or when you use the
720
00:43:36,810 --> 00:43:39,330
sauna. The probably the most
interesting thing I was coming
721
00:43:39,330 --> 00:43:43,710
across at the time, was that
actually when you are in the
722
00:43:43,710 --> 00:43:46,560
sauna, because it's what a lot
of the sciences focuses on is
723
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,590
what I personally was doing at
the time. But there are other
724
00:43:49,590 --> 00:43:52,350
forms of modalities of heat
stress, like hot tubs or even
725
00:43:52,350 --> 00:43:55,650
hot baths, right? Or exercise,
right exercise elevating your
726
00:43:55,650 --> 00:43:59,250
body temperature. When you are
when you're getting hot, you are
727
00:43:59,250 --> 00:44:01,800
physically uncomfortable, it
feels uncomfortable, you don't
728
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,560
feel good. You're like this just
feels terrible. Like Hi, I want
729
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,990
to get out Oh hate it, or what
same goes when you're working
730
00:44:06,990 --> 00:44:09,540
out. It's like that feeling an
uncomfortable feeling? Well,
731
00:44:09,540 --> 00:44:14,460
there's another opioid that our
brain produces. In response to
732
00:44:14,460 --> 00:44:18,570
heat. It's called dyne orphan
and dine orphan is the counter
733
00:44:18,570 --> 00:44:21,780
opposite of endorphin. dyne
orphan is responsible for that
734
00:44:21,780 --> 00:44:24,900
uncomfortable feeling that
feeling of discomfort, it binds
735
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:27,960
to a different receptor in our
brain than the beta endorphin,
736
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,320
it binds to a receptor called
the Kappa opioid receptor. And
737
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,550
when it does that, this actually
affects the whole endorphin
738
00:44:35,550 --> 00:44:39,120
system. It affects the receptors
that endorphins bind to by
739
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,690
basically increasing them and
making them more sensitive to
740
00:44:42,690 --> 00:44:46,380
endorphin. It's a feedback loop.
Oftentimes in biology, you'll
741
00:44:46,380 --> 00:44:50,520
find this feedback loops are
very common, and it's the body's
742
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,520
way of trying to maintain
homeostasis. The body is going,
743
00:44:53,550 --> 00:44:56,670
Oh, I've got this uncomfortable
thing. I better counter that by
744
00:44:56,670 --> 00:44:59,880
making my receptors respond
better to the good feeling that
745
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,760
way. I'm not always feeling so
uncomfortable, right? The same
746
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,860
goes with the reason you're
making diner friend is because
747
00:45:04,890 --> 00:45:08,220
it cools the body down, your
body is hot, and your body's
748
00:45:08,220 --> 00:45:10,980
responding to that heat by
going, I need to cool it down
749
00:45:11,010 --> 00:45:13,950
diner from plays a role in the
central nervous system for
750
00:45:13,950 --> 00:45:17,940
helping some of that cooling
effect happen. And so, I came up
751
00:45:17,940 --> 00:45:22,710
with this hypothesis, that
through the heat stress, my
752
00:45:22,710 --> 00:45:27,510
endorphin system was now
sensitized days later. In other
753
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:31,680
words, when I was getting a
little hit of my endorphin, I
754
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,470
was feeling it better I was it
was a greater effect, and it was
755
00:45:34,470 --> 00:45:39,030
lasting longer. I published a
review article in 2022, in the
756
00:45:39,030 --> 00:45:42,630
Journal of general experimental
gerontology, where I talk all
757
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:45,510
about the many health benefits
of the sauna and how it can
758
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:48,870
improve and extend our health
span. And part of that I talked
759
00:45:48,870 --> 00:45:51,900
about this endorphin pathway.
But since then, there's been a
760
00:45:51,900 --> 00:45:56,130
lot of data looking at the
effect of heat stress in the
761
00:45:56,130 --> 00:46:00,540
form of actually infrared
radiation. So Infrared Saunas
762
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,260
typically don't get as hot as
traditional saunas, many of the
763
00:46:04,260 --> 00:46:09,630
health benefits from traditional
saunas happened around 174, I
764
00:46:09,630 --> 00:46:13,530
would say, to 179 degree
Fahrenheit 20 minutes at that
765
00:46:13,530 --> 00:46:17,400
temperature in terms of looking
at benefits on cardiovascular
766
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,510
related mortality lower up to a
50% lower cardiovascular related
767
00:46:21,540 --> 00:46:24,900
mortality, using that four times
a week, all cause mortality,
768
00:46:24,900 --> 00:46:29,400
40%, lower and other benefits,
well, infrared saunas only get
769
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,980
up to about 140 degrees
Fahrenheit, they use a different
770
00:46:31,980 --> 00:46:35,160
way to to heat up the body.
They're using infrared
771
00:46:35,460 --> 00:46:38,640
wavelength. So infrared
radiation. And so there's been
772
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,330
some research first came out of
Dr. Charles raisons lab, I had
773
00:46:42,330 --> 00:46:45,630
him on the podcast several years
ago, phenomenal guy, brilliant.
774
00:46:45,660 --> 00:46:48,660
And he had done a pilot
randomized controlled trial,
775
00:46:48,900 --> 00:46:53,100
looking at heat stress. And they
use this kind of funny device
776
00:46:53,100 --> 00:46:57,570
that was an infrared device that
basically would elevate core
777
00:46:57,570 --> 00:47:01,500
body temperature to a pretty
much feverish date. So I mean,
778
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:04,410
people were elevating their core
body temperature, I think about
779
00:47:04,410 --> 00:47:07,950
two degrees. And they were
getting up to about 100 degrees
780
00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:13,560
Fahrenheit, body temp, close to
101. And they had a placebo or
781
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,760
sham control, that would
basically just heat the person
782
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,880
up just a little bit, but it
wasn't like getting them. It
783
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,590
wasn't getting it was enough to
make them think they were
784
00:47:22,590 --> 00:47:24,600
getting the treatment, right, a
placebo control. And what he
785
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,170
found was just a single
treatment of that had a robust
786
00:47:28,170 --> 00:47:31,260
antidepressant response in
people with major depressive
787
00:47:31,260 --> 00:47:34,110
disorder, okay, these are people
that actually had major
788
00:47:34,110 --> 00:47:37,680
depressive disorder, and they
weren't typically responding to
789
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:42,480
antidepressants. And one
treatment of this heat stress,
790
00:47:42,510 --> 00:47:45,510
which was kind of like a quote
unquote, sauna. Had an
791
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:50,520
antidepressant effect that
lasted six weeks. The one
792
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:55,080
treatment, right, exactly. And
it was only so this was only in
793
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,750
the treatment group, the sham
control group did not experience
794
00:47:57,750 --> 00:48:02,400
that effect. And so since that
time trials and his one of his
795
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,690
mentees, Dr. Ashley Mason, who
now has her own lab at UCSF,
796
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,750
I've also had her on the
podcast, and I'm collaborating
797
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:13,020
with her on a couple of studies,
she has now carried on the
798
00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:17,790
torch, and she is looking at the
effects of her protocol, which
799
00:48:17,790 --> 00:48:21,660
is that using what's called a
heat bed, it's a infrared sauna
800
00:48:21,660 --> 00:48:25,890
heat bed, that is basically
raising people's core body
801
00:48:25,890 --> 00:48:29,100
temperature, again, to a similar
degree up to I think even up to
802
00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:32,250
like 101 Fahrenheit. So they
people are getting hot. And it's
803
00:48:32,250 --> 00:48:34,140
a pretty, pretty extensive
protocol. I mean, they're in
804
00:48:34,140 --> 00:48:38,700
there for like 45 minutes. And
the I can't it's not published,
805
00:48:38,700 --> 00:48:42,150
but I can't all I can say is the
results are looking very
806
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:45,690
promising. And it's very
exciting. So that's how I got
807
00:48:45,690 --> 00:48:49,110
into the sauna. The effects on
the brain, a lot of people are
808
00:48:49,110 --> 00:48:51,570
focusing on effects,
cardiovascular effects, very
809
00:48:51,570 --> 00:48:55,530
robust cardiovascular effects,
but also effects on mental
810
00:48:55,530 --> 00:48:59,370
health. And it's interesting
because we know exercises. In
811
00:48:59,370 --> 00:49:01,410
fact, there's been some new
studies coming out directly
812
00:49:01,410 --> 00:49:04,530
comparing exercise to
antidepressants being a better
813
00:49:04,530 --> 00:49:08,250
effect than antidepressants on
basically depressive symptoms
814
00:49:08,250 --> 00:49:12,480
than antidepressants, classical
antidepressants like SSRIs. And
815
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,590
so of course, as John focusing
on behavioral changes, you have
816
00:49:16,590 --> 00:49:20,580
to have a person that's willing
to put an effort to exercise and
817
00:49:20,580 --> 00:49:24,210
it's it is a problem people that
are depressed, don't have that
818
00:49:24,210 --> 00:49:28,830
motivation to go and run and get
on the peloton or get on the
819
00:49:28,830 --> 00:49:33,030
exercise bike or just do it like
some do. And that's great. And
820
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:36,120
it's exercise is king, but this
is kind of where the sauna comes
821
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,030
in. Right? Because you're
talking about people think it's
822
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:41,400
like a spa treatment, right?
They don't have to do much but
823
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,370
be willing to get in there and
feel uncomfortable. Like it's
824
00:49:44,370 --> 00:49:48,210
not comfortable to be hot, very
hot. Okay. So you are still
825
00:49:48,210 --> 00:49:51,450
going to be uncomfortable,
right? But the response to
826
00:49:51,450 --> 00:49:56,610
uncomfortable feeling could be
so beneficial and so worth it.
827
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,120
And I do think that compliance
is easier to get a person to
828
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:04,350
step into a heat bed sauna, or
compared to getting them to get
829
00:50:04,350 --> 00:50:07,470
on a peloton, at least in my
experience with family members
830
00:50:07,470 --> 00:50:10,260
for that I personally am trying
to get them to work out, I can
831
00:50:10,260 --> 00:50:11,280
at least get them in the sauna.
832
00:50:12,990 --> 00:50:14,820
John Miles: I just want to
reiterate some of the things
833
00:50:14,820 --> 00:50:17,190
that you just talked about. So
some of the health benefits
834
00:50:17,790 --> 00:50:22,020
associated with sauna are better
cardiovascular health, it aids
835
00:50:22,020 --> 00:50:26,430
in reducing the risk of
congestive heart failure, if I
836
00:50:26,430 --> 00:50:30,660
understand that correct.
Hypertension, inflammation. So
837
00:50:30,660 --> 00:50:34,290
those are just some of the
health benefits not getting into
838
00:50:34,290 --> 00:50:37,740
the mental health and cognition
benefits. Did I miss any of the
839
00:50:37,740 --> 00:50:39,810
major ones? Well, yeah,
840
00:50:39,810 --> 00:50:40,830
Dr. Rhonda Patrick: let's dive a
little more into the
841
00:50:40,830 --> 00:50:43,050
cardiovascular because it's a
little more nuanced than that.
842
00:50:43,050 --> 00:50:47,880
So sauna in many respects heat
stress, hot tub, hot bath sauna,
843
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,450
the physiological response to he
is happening the same thing
844
00:50:51,450 --> 00:50:54,540
that's happening with exercise.
So the physiological response is
845
00:50:54,540 --> 00:50:58,620
very similar. Your heart rate
elevates to about 120 beats per
846
00:50:58,620 --> 00:51:01,290
minute, that's indicative about
moderate intensity aerobic
847
00:51:01,290 --> 00:51:05,280
exercise, you your blood flow is
increased to the skin to fill a
848
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,310
specific state sweating. So you
start to sweat, it helps you
849
00:51:08,310 --> 00:51:11,100
cool down. These things all
happen when you're in a sauna,
850
00:51:11,250 --> 00:51:14,670
or hot bath or hot tub and or
when you're doing physic
851
00:51:14,670 --> 00:51:17,010
moderate physical aerobic
exercise. In fact, there's been
852
00:51:17,010 --> 00:51:21,240
a head to head comparison, the
sauna, 20 minutes and Asana hot
853
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:26,430
sauna, mimics 20 minutes on a
stationary bike and intensity
854
00:51:26,460 --> 00:51:29,640
aerobic exercise. So this is I
think about 100 or so watts,
855
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,610
basically on a stationary bike.
So the same effects are
856
00:51:32,700 --> 00:51:36,060
occurring. So basically, while
you're doing the sauna, while
857
00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:38,370
you are exercising on the
stationary bike, your heart rate
858
00:51:38,370 --> 00:51:42,090
elevates, your blood pressure
goes up during that activity.
859
00:51:42,420 --> 00:51:46,710
However, when you are completed
with the sauna, or the exercise
860
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:51,510
bike, blood pressure goes down
and improves, it goes down even
861
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:53,940
below what your baseline is.
This has been a head to head
862
00:51:53,940 --> 00:51:56,760
comparison, the sauna. And this
is one of the most, I would say
863
00:51:56,790 --> 00:52:00,900
profound effects of the sauna.
So there's been epidemiological
864
00:52:00,900 --> 00:52:04,740
studies, these are observational
studies looking at correlations.
865
00:52:05,130 --> 00:52:10,200
And people that use the sauna
four to seven times a week, have
866
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:14,760
a 46% reduced risk of
hypertension. But there's also
867
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,270
been intervention studies. So
people that are again, just get
868
00:52:18,270 --> 00:52:22,350
on get into the sauna for 30
minutes. And blood pressures and
869
00:52:22,350 --> 00:52:25,830
measured blood pressure is
improved. Both systolic and
870
00:52:25,830 --> 00:52:29,880
diastolic blood pressure is
improved after the sauna. And so
871
00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:33,420
there's a pretty profound effect
on blood pressure, which is not
872
00:52:33,420 --> 00:52:36,030
only important for
cardiovascular health, it's
873
00:52:36,030 --> 00:52:41,280
extremely important for brain
aging and brain health. In fact,
874
00:52:41,310 --> 00:52:45,930
it's one of the most important
lifestyle factors. Early blood
875
00:52:45,930 --> 00:52:49,140
pressure control is one of the
most important lifestyle factors
876
00:52:49,500 --> 00:52:53,790
for preventing dementia. And
about 50% of people in the
877
00:52:53,790 --> 00:52:59,490
United States have hypertension,
but 20% of young adults. So
878
00:52:59,490 --> 00:53:05,100
these are people that are age 18
to 39 20% of those young adults
879
00:53:05,100 --> 00:53:08,340
have hypertension. That's where
it's the most dangerous and
880
00:53:08,340 --> 00:53:10,650
those are the people that
probably don't care as much.
881
00:53:10,650 --> 00:53:13,020
They're like I'm young,
whatever. Well, it's the
882
00:53:13,020 --> 00:53:16,260
cumulative exposure to high
blood pressure that's damaging
883
00:53:16,260 --> 00:53:19,350
blood vessels at the blood brain
barrier that that thing we
884
00:53:19,350 --> 00:53:22,950
talked about at the beginning of
this podcast that starts to
885
00:53:22,980 --> 00:53:26,190
basically it's like the early
signal of blood brain barrier
886
00:53:26,190 --> 00:53:28,140
breakdown when you're when
you're basically damaging those
887
00:53:28,140 --> 00:53:31,950
blood vessels. So blood pressure
is extremely important early on.
888
00:53:32,340 --> 00:53:34,890
And so that is one of the things
that both exercise and sauna
889
00:53:34,890 --> 00:53:38,310
have in common. They very
robustly improve blood pressure.
890
00:53:38,340 --> 00:53:41,940
You mentioned congestive heart
failure. Well, the sauna use
891
00:53:41,970 --> 00:53:45,060
there's been studies out of
Finland from Dr. Yari Larkins
892
00:53:45,060 --> 00:53:48,300
lab director, Dr. laukkanen has
done a lot of these
893
00:53:48,330 --> 00:53:53,130
observational studies looking at
the sauna. And he has found that
894
00:53:53,370 --> 00:53:58,260
sudden cardiac death is 22%
lower in men that use this on a
895
00:53:58,260 --> 00:54:02,280
two to three times a week. 63%
lower and men that use this on a
896
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:06,930
four to seven times a week. This
is a typical Finnish sauna, 174
897
00:54:06,930 --> 00:54:10,680
degrees Fahrenheit temperature
around 20% humidity so it
898
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,940
actually feels a lot hotter 10
to 20% Humidity actually, and 20
899
00:54:14,940 --> 00:54:18,870
minutes was like the key sweet
spot for actually the numbers
900
00:54:18,870 --> 00:54:24,390
that I just quoted. But in
addition to sudden cardiac death
901
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:27,720
will all cause lower
cardiovascular related mortality
902
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:30,810
from different types of
cardiovascular disease is also
903
00:54:30,810 --> 00:54:34,110
affected. So men that use Asana
two to three times a week have a
904
00:54:34,110 --> 00:54:38,730
27% lower cardiovascular related
mortality. If they use the sauna
905
00:54:38,730 --> 00:54:42,330
four to seven times a week, a
50% lower cardiovascular related
906
00:54:42,330 --> 00:54:45,570
mortality. Again, this is what's
called a dose dependent effect.
907
00:54:45,660 --> 00:54:50,250
The more frequent Asana use, the
more robust the effect all cause
908
00:54:50,250 --> 00:54:54,150
mortality was also lower. So
this is dying from other causes
909
00:54:54,150 --> 00:54:56,580
in addition to cardiovascular
disease like respiratory
910
00:54:56,580 --> 00:55:01,170
disease, for example, again,
dose dependent effect 24% lower
911
00:55:01,170 --> 00:55:04,170
in people that are used in using
the sauna two to three times a
912
00:55:04,170 --> 00:55:07,770
week. 40% Lower people that are
using the sauna four to seven
913
00:55:07,770 --> 00:55:09,990
times a week. And again, the
temperature is typically around
914
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:14,730
174 degrees Fahrenheit 20 minute
session was the key effects,
915
00:55:15,060 --> 00:55:18,690
we're still seeing at a lower
duration in the sauna, but they
916
00:55:18,690 --> 00:55:21,480
were not as robust. So for
example, the sudden cardiac
917
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:25,710
death I mentioned four to seven
times a week was 50%. Lower, it
918
00:55:25,710 --> 00:55:31,080
had to be at least 19 minutes or
greater spent in that 174 degree
919
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,520
sauna. So if people were in
there for just 11 minutes, up to
920
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,570
11 minutes, the reduction in
cuts and cardiac death is only
921
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:45,330
11%. Lower. So the duration in
the sauna is also important as
922
00:55:45,330 --> 00:55:47,820
well, with epidemiological
studies are observational
923
00:55:47,820 --> 00:55:50,490
studies, there's always the
potential for reverse causality,
924
00:55:50,490 --> 00:55:53,550
right? Well, maybe people that
are healthier can just stay in
925
00:55:53,550 --> 00:55:57,000
the sauna longer, while your
doctor like Dr. laukkanen is
926
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,240
very aware of these things. And
they control for many different
927
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:03,300
potential factors body mass,
serum cholesterol, blood
928
00:56:03,300 --> 00:56:06,210
pressure, smoking, alcohol
consumption, physical activity,
929
00:56:06,270 --> 00:56:09,000
socioeconomic status, they
control for all these factors.
930
00:56:09,270 --> 00:56:14,070
In addition to that, within a
cohort of unhealthy people. So
931
00:56:14,070 --> 00:56:17,070
these are people that were
metabolically unhealthy had type
932
00:56:17,070 --> 00:56:21,300
two diabetes, they had
hypertension. They also had a
933
00:56:21,300 --> 00:56:25,380
protective effect if they stayed
in the sauna, as well. And so
934
00:56:25,380 --> 00:56:29,040
it's not just a Oh, you have to
be healthy to stay in the sauna.
935
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,560
Well, guess what? unhealthy
people were staying in the sauna
936
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:34,530
for 20 minutes, and they
experienced a benefit. So I do
937
00:56:34,530 --> 00:56:37,590
tend to think the reverse
causality arguments a bit lower,
938
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,710
particularly considering now all
the intervention data we have,
939
00:56:40,710 --> 00:56:43,080
as I mentioned, the blood
pressure into there's
940
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,660
intervention, sauna studies
showing that it lowers blood
941
00:56:45,660 --> 00:56:49,710
pressure, there's intervention
trials showing that it improves
942
00:56:49,710 --> 00:56:53,340
heart rate variability. So this
is the ability of your heart to
943
00:56:53,340 --> 00:56:57,030
respond to a stressful situation
which you want your heart to be
944
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:59,130
at your heart to be able to if
there was a heart attack or
945
00:56:59,130 --> 00:57:01,800
something like that happening,
you want your heart to respond
946
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,370
in a favorable way, right. So so
intervention data is also shown
947
00:57:05,370 --> 00:57:08,580
to improve what's called
arterial compliance. So this
948
00:57:08,610 --> 00:57:11,520
people that spent 30 minutes in
the sauna, their arterial
949
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,520
compliance was approved. In
other words, the ability of
950
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,630
their arteries to respond to a
to to constrict and not
951
00:57:18,750 --> 00:57:21,600
invasive, dilate again,
responding to a stressful
952
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:25,500
situation is improved. So that's
also from again, intervention
953
00:57:25,500 --> 00:57:29,280
trials, also intervention trials
showing that inflammatory
954
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,810
biomarkers, so they do go up,
but this response is also in the
955
00:57:33,810 --> 00:57:36,660
body producing more anti
inflammatory molecules. So for
956
00:57:36,660 --> 00:57:41,220
example, il 10, is also
increased after a sauna. Looking
957
00:57:41,220 --> 00:57:47,280
at the greater body of evidence,
the observational data, and the
958
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,730
intervention data as well. I
think putting them together, we
959
00:57:50,730 --> 00:57:53,520
also have mechanistic data from
animal studies. I think in
960
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,990
general, it all points to the
fact that heat stress is a
961
00:57:57,990 --> 00:58:01,800
beneficial type of stress on the
body and moreover, it's
962
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,760
beneficial in combination with
exercise and other words, I've
963
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:10,770
been talking about how sauna
mimics your heat stress mimics
964
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,010
moderate cardiovascular
exercise, but the reality is
965
00:58:14,010 --> 00:58:18,060
there's data showing that
actually people have a better
966
00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:21,780
what's called cardio respiratory
fitness, oftentimes measured by
967
00:58:21,810 --> 00:58:25,260
Vo two max this is the ability
of your lungs to breathe and
968
00:58:25,260 --> 00:58:29,130
oxygen during physical activity
and get them to your muscles
969
00:58:29,130 --> 00:58:33,750
performing working muscles. And
cardio respiratory fitness is a
970
00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:38,010
biomarker of health IT can
predict again it's can predict
971
00:58:38,010 --> 00:58:42,000
healthy aging, it's associated a
higher cardio respiratory
972
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,790
fitness is associated with a
lower all cause mortality. So
973
00:58:44,790 --> 00:58:49,710
people that actually exercise
and use the sauna have a higher
974
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:53,580
cardio respiratory fitness
compared to people that exercise
975
00:58:53,610 --> 00:58:58,680
only or sauna on me. So the two
together are better than the any
976
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:03,060
one alone. And then even on top
of that Dr. laukkanen has come
977
00:59:03,060 --> 00:59:06,630
out with some new data, looking
at intervention studies, people
978
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:10,860
that are exercising or alone or
they exercise ng the sauna.
979
00:59:11,460 --> 00:59:15,000
Again, they're vo two Max was
improved if they did both
980
00:59:15,150 --> 00:59:17,910
compared to exercise alone.
There was also a variety of
981
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:21,240
lipid markers that were also
improved as well if they did
982
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,810
both compared to just exercise
alone. So I think for people
983
00:59:24,810 --> 00:59:27,870
that are already physically
active like myself, it is just
984
00:59:27,900 --> 00:59:30,660
another reason to go okay,
here's one more thing that
985
00:59:30,660 --> 00:59:34,740
actually is king, so that's
clear. But if I still want to do
986
00:59:34,740 --> 00:59:38,250
something even more on top of
that, adding the heat stress in
987
00:59:38,250 --> 00:59:41,040
the form of the sauna, even hot
baths hot baths can increase
988
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,650
heat shock proteins we know a
sauna increases heat shock
989
00:59:43,650 --> 00:59:47,640
proteins, you can sit in a 30
minute 163 degree Fahrenheit
990
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:50,670
sauna and increase your heat
shock proteins 50% While going
991
00:59:50,670 --> 00:59:53,790
in a hot bath. We talked about
cost effective strategies the
992
00:59:53,790 --> 00:59:58,200
beginning not everyone has a
home sauna not everyone has a
993
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,650
gym membership or not everyone's
Em has. This isn't Finland where
994
01:00:01,650 --> 01:00:05,430
everyone the Saunas are
ubiquitous, right? Most people,
995
01:00:05,460 --> 01:00:09,840
not everyone, but most people do
have a bathtub in their home and
996
01:00:09,870 --> 01:00:14,610
hot bath 104 degrees. That's a
typical typical temperature of a
997
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:19,110
hot tub. So 104 degrees, 20
minutes, shoulders down, okay,
998
01:00:19,110 --> 01:00:21,840
it's not easy to do, it's hot,
it's hot, you're gonna want to
999
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:25,110
cheat but you can't cheat. So
Shoulders down will increase
1000
01:00:25,110 --> 01:00:30,240
heat shock proteins by to fold
after 20 minutes. So again, heat
1001
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:32,520
stress, we talk a lot about
sauna that's where a lot of the
1002
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,850
science is. hot baths have also
been shown to improve depressive
1003
01:00:35,850 --> 01:00:38,970
symptoms increased brain derived
neurotrophic factor, this is an
1004
01:00:38,970 --> 01:00:42,810
important neurotrophic factor in
the brain that plays a role in
1005
01:00:42,810 --> 01:00:45,690
not only brain aging, but also
in mental health because it
1006
01:00:45,690 --> 01:00:49,020
helps the brain respond to
changing environments and
1007
01:00:49,020 --> 01:00:52,410
stressful things. So being able
to adapt to a new environment.
1008
01:00:52,410 --> 01:00:54,960
It's called neuroplasticity,
brain derived neurotrophic
1009
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,650
factor increases neuroplasticity
as we age, our ability to do
1010
01:00:58,650 --> 01:01:01,410
that decreases. It's why young
people can adapt to things so
1011
01:01:01,410 --> 01:01:05,670
much better than older people
can. But depression also has a
1012
01:01:05,700 --> 01:01:09,330
malfunction in the neuro
neuroplasticity. And so people
1013
01:01:09,330 --> 01:01:13,230
that are depressed, often
there's a connection between,
1014
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,970
they're not able to adapt. And
that's causes depression, when
1015
01:01:17,970 --> 01:01:19,800
things are changing, and you
can't adapt to it. It's
1016
01:01:19,830 --> 01:01:21,750
depressing, like you're you're
anxious, it's like it's it
1017
01:01:21,750 --> 01:01:24,600
causes depression. So Hotpads
also plays a role in that I know
1018
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:26,880
we talked about the saunas
helping with depression. But I
1019
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,300
do think there's also a role for
other modalities of heat stress
1020
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:33,270
as well, muscle mass as well. So
this is another thing that heat
1021
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:36,360
shock proteins effect. This is
something that is extremely
1022
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,660
important with age. And in fact,
when we were at the beginning
1023
01:01:39,660 --> 01:01:42,210
talking about my strategies,
some of the low hanging fruits
1024
01:01:42,210 --> 01:01:45,150
things that I'm doing to improve
the way I age, I failed to
1025
01:01:45,150 --> 01:01:48,270
mention that I have increased my
protein intake, I have increased
1026
01:01:48,270 --> 01:01:53,400
my protein and the RDA protein
intake is 0.8 grams per kilogram
1027
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:57,840
body weight. And that has been
shown by a variety of experts
1028
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:02,100
like Dr. Stuart Phillips, Dr.
Brad Schoenfeld, these are both
1029
01:02:02,130 --> 01:02:05,310
experts in physiology, I've had
him on my podcast. And they've
1030
01:02:05,310 --> 01:02:08,340
really shown new techniques,
radio labeling, labeling
1031
01:02:08,340 --> 01:02:12,360
techniques that have found that
actually 1.2 is more like the
1032
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:17,010
minimum requirement for optimal
daily protein intake, 1.2 grams
1033
01:02:17,010 --> 01:02:19,470
per kilogram body weight, and
when you're physically active,
1034
01:02:19,470 --> 01:02:22,800
and when you're older, that
number may even go up to 1.6.
1035
01:02:23,130 --> 01:02:26,040
And so protein intake is really
important for maintaining muscle
1036
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:29,040
mass. It's one of the major
signals for muscle growth, in
1037
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,490
addition to strength training,
which I also do, I should have
1038
01:02:32,490 --> 01:02:35,250
mentioned that as well, strength
training and protein intake are
1039
01:02:35,250 --> 01:02:38,040
very important for maintaining
muscle mass, which is extremely
1040
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:40,950
important for aging. I mean,
frailty is a big thing. As you
1041
01:02:40,950 --> 01:02:43,890
get older and you succumb to
some respiratory virus and you
1042
01:02:43,890 --> 01:02:46,800
go into the hospital, you're
going to start losing muscle
1043
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:51,150
mass at a rapid rate. And this
could be the sort of initiation
1044
01:02:51,180 --> 01:02:56,640
of the downfall, that trajectory
down into mortality. And most of
1045
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:58,890
us experienced a family member
or a grandparent, perhaps a
1046
01:02:58,890 --> 01:03:00,990
parent that is that has
experienced that. So it's
1047
01:03:00,990 --> 01:03:04,440
probably a very common we all
we've it's, it makes sense,
1048
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:08,460
right? Well, going back to the
heat circling back to the heat,
1049
01:03:08,490 --> 01:03:11,970
heat shock proteins, in
particular, play a role in
1050
01:03:11,970 --> 01:03:15,570
preventing muscle atrophy. So
that basically break down on
1051
01:03:15,570 --> 01:03:19,260
muscle. And this plays a role
not only during aging, but also
1052
01:03:19,260 --> 01:03:22,980
during injury. So there's been
some studies that have been done
1053
01:03:22,980 --> 01:03:27,600
on people where they basically
take a limb and inactivate the
1054
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:32,220
limb by putting like a cast on
it for a period of a week or so
1055
01:03:32,220 --> 01:03:36,120
and then expose those people to
a local heat where their limb is
1056
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:39,390
basically immobilized. And then
or they have a control where
1057
01:03:39,390 --> 01:03:42,090
they're just at normal room
temperature. And it was found
1058
01:03:42,090 --> 01:03:45,780
that basically exposing this
inactive this muscle that is not
1059
01:03:45,810 --> 01:03:49,230
being worked, right so there's
it's undergoing atrophy, it was
1060
01:03:49,230 --> 01:03:52,950
38% less likely to undergo
atrophy if they was exposed to
1061
01:03:52,950 --> 01:03:56,100
heat. And there's been a variety
of animal studies confirming
1062
01:03:56,100 --> 01:03:59,460
this where you put a little
animal in a little sauna and
1063
01:03:59,490 --> 01:04:03,000
they're immobilized a limb and
basically it's like they're over
1064
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:07,650
30% likely to less likely to
have muscle atrophy occur a lot
1065
01:04:07,650 --> 01:04:11,340
of ongoing interest now in the
effects of heat on basically
1066
01:04:11,340 --> 01:04:14,970
preventing muscle atrophy. But
it is just yet another I think
1067
01:04:14,970 --> 01:04:19,740
benefit to using the sauna or a
hot bath or a modality of heat
1068
01:04:19,740 --> 01:04:24,240
stress again to help maintain
healthy muscle mass. So these
1069
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:26,520
are some of the really robust
benefits mental health
1070
01:04:26,550 --> 01:04:29,730
cardiovascular health all cause
mortality, also respiratory
1071
01:04:29,730 --> 01:04:34,320
health, it plays a role in the
lungs vo to max healthy aging
1072
01:04:34,380 --> 01:04:37,920
muscle it's just an endless list
and it's very it's to me, it's
1073
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:42,750
very apparent that the sauna or
heat stress itself through other
1074
01:04:42,750 --> 01:04:47,100
modalities like hot baths, hot
tubs Jacuzzis should be added to
1075
01:04:47,100 --> 01:04:52,110
the list of healthy lifestyle
habits that people can do to
1076
01:04:52,110 --> 01:04:55,650
improve their aging process the
way they're aging their health
1077
01:04:55,650 --> 01:04:58,350
man and to improve their disease
risk profile
1078
01:04:59,700 --> 01:05:02,550
John Miles: and then One last
quick question for your onda
1079
01:05:02,550 --> 01:05:06,750
would be what is your personal
sauna protocol from the
1080
01:05:06,750 --> 01:05:09,210
standpoint of duration,
temperature, humidity and
1081
01:05:09,210 --> 01:05:09,900
frequency.
1082
01:05:10,650 --> 01:05:13,410
Dr. Rhonda Patrick: So I have a
couple of different protocols.
1083
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:19,500
Oftentimes, I switch between
using a traditional sauna, hot
1084
01:05:19,500 --> 01:05:25,590
sauna, and using a traditional
hot tub, Jacuzzi. And so my hot
1085
01:05:25,590 --> 01:05:30,600
sauna protocol is I typically do
a high intensity workout on my
1086
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:34,410
peloton bike. And meanwhile, my
son is warming up and I'm
1087
01:05:34,410 --> 01:05:38,610
usually it's usually about 175
degrees Fahrenheit sauna these
1088
01:05:38,610 --> 01:05:44,910
days, then I get into my sauna.
And I do put water on hot rocks,
1089
01:05:44,940 --> 01:05:51,180
and I generate steam. My
hygrometer in my sauna measures
1090
01:05:51,180 --> 01:05:55,560
that I raise the humidity up
about I would say, to about 15%
1091
01:05:55,770 --> 01:06:01,350
humidity, so it feels quite hot,
hotter than 175. And I stay in
1092
01:06:01,350 --> 01:06:05,220
there, typically 20 minutes, it
depends if I don't do a high
1093
01:06:05,220 --> 01:06:08,550
intensity workout, right before
I get in that I will probably
1094
01:06:08,550 --> 01:06:12,630
say in about 30 minutes. And so
it really depends on whether or
1095
01:06:12,630 --> 01:06:15,810
not I'm getting into that sauna
right after the workout or not.
1096
01:06:15,810 --> 01:06:19,620
Now in terms of frequency, how
many times a week I do it. So it
1097
01:06:19,620 --> 01:06:23,820
depends. I also like to do a hot
tub, we have a Jacuzzi outside,
1098
01:06:23,850 --> 01:06:26,580
I like to do it after I put my
son to sleep. And my husband and
1099
01:06:26,580 --> 01:06:29,910
I go in there and it's we're
under the stars, it was a bit of
1100
01:06:29,910 --> 01:06:35,610
a very sort of relaxing effect.
And also it's our time together
1101
01:06:35,670 --> 01:06:38,880
away from away from our child.
So we have our personal time
1102
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:42,600
together. And honestly, I do two
forms of heat stress a day, but
1103
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,840
I probably get my heat stress, I
probably am I'm doing I would
1104
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,960
say likely about six times a
week, I do a lot. And that's
1105
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,140
because I do add in the hot tub
as well. And I do like doing the
1106
01:06:52,140 --> 01:06:56,490
hot tub at night because it
helps with my sleep, it seems to
1107
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,970
really improve my sleep
efficiency. So I don't really
1108
01:06:59,970 --> 01:07:02,760
have a lot of issues with
latency would in other words
1109
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:05,370
falling asleep. But in terms of
like how many times I wake up,
1110
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:09,210
heat really seems to help with
that. And so I like doing that
1111
01:07:09,210 --> 01:07:13,050
hot tub at night. And I usually
am in there about 20 to 30
1112
01:07:13,050 --> 01:07:17,220
minutes, and it's 104 degrees
Fahrenheit, the temperature of
1113
01:07:17,220 --> 01:07:20,820
my Jacuzzi. And so I switch
between those into like
1114
01:07:20,820 --> 01:07:24,690
sometimes I'll do the sauna two
or three times a week. But I
1115
01:07:24,690 --> 01:07:28,830
also at the same time I'm doing
hot tub Jacuzzi four to five
1116
01:07:28,830 --> 01:07:32,250
times a week at least I'm
probably getting something in
1117
01:07:32,250 --> 01:07:35,760
the form of a hot tub or hot
sauna six days a week for sure.
1118
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,270
John Miles: So I think what I've
just learned is when I walk out
1119
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:42,600
of my spin class, we've got
saunas in our clubs, so I'm
1120
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:45,660
going to have to use it now,
four times a week.
1121
01:07:46,770 --> 01:07:49,950
Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Nice, yeah,
four times is the sweet spot if
1122
01:07:49,950 --> 01:07:53,520
you're looking for the so the
minimum effective dose in terms
1123
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:56,970
of heat stress, to get any
benefit at all would be two
1124
01:07:56,970 --> 01:07:58,950
times a week, right? That was
like you were at least getting
1125
01:07:58,950 --> 01:08:03,630
something at two times a week,
but to get the robust data
1126
01:08:03,660 --> 01:08:06,900
effects so like if we're talking
about all cause mortality, two
1127
01:08:06,900 --> 01:08:10,560
times a week was like 24%, lower
all cause mortality compared to
1128
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:14,910
one time a week, but four to
seven times a week was 40% Lower
1129
01:08:14,910 --> 01:08:18,450
all cause mortality. Yeah, so
four times a week would be I
1130
01:08:18,450 --> 01:08:21,210
would say what I would call the
minimum effective dose with
1131
01:08:21,210 --> 01:08:24,990
respect because you want to get
that robust effect. So So I do
1132
01:08:24,990 --> 01:08:29,490
aim for four times a week as my
minimum effective heat stress
1133
01:08:29,490 --> 01:08:32,820
dose for example, and we didn't
get much into cold but it's got
1134
01:08:32,820 --> 01:08:36,990
its own separate set of benefits
and I honestly I do a lot less
1135
01:08:36,990 --> 01:08:42,690
cold in the winter. It's hard.
It's just so hard in the summer.
1136
01:08:42,780 --> 01:08:45,510
I'm all about it. I'm in that
cold we got a cold plunge I'm
1137
01:08:45,510 --> 01:08:48,600
all I'm in there it's 50 degree
Fahrenheit and it's just tend to
1138
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,330
really like the heat more but
the cold has has its own set of
1139
01:08:51,330 --> 01:08:52,170
benefits as well.
1140
01:08:53,310 --> 01:08:56,400
John Miles: Where's the best
place? If someone wants to learn
1141
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:58,830
more about you read your
articles, get your great
1142
01:08:58,830 --> 01:09:00,780
newsletter, etc to do so.
1143
01:09:01,260 --> 01:09:03,480
Dr. Rhonda Patrick: I have a
podcast found my fitness podcast
1144
01:09:03,480 --> 01:09:06,990
is on Apple podcasts on Spotify
and YouTube just Google found my
1145
01:09:06,990 --> 01:09:10,410
fitness all one word. We have a
website called found my fitness.
1146
01:09:10,740 --> 01:09:15,990
My fitness.com You can go to it.
It has topic pages where we have
1147
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:18,840
articles on many of the things
we talked about including the
1148
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:22,020
sauna. We have a newsletter we
put out that's phenomenal. We
1149
01:09:22,020 --> 01:09:25,200
talk about a lot of important
things that I think are
1150
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:28,350
important sauna micronutrients,
I also put out a lot of show
1151
01:09:28,350 --> 01:09:31,800
notes on on my newsletter as
well. So you can sign up for
1152
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:36,390
that at found my fitness.com and
slash newsletter or just go to
1153
01:09:36,390 --> 01:09:39,900
Falmouth fitness.com. And you'll
see that there but you will find
1154
01:09:39,900 --> 01:09:42,870
everything there found my
fitness.com has our topic pages.
1155
01:09:42,870 --> 01:09:47,310
It has links to our podcasts. It
has our newsletter. So pretty
1156
01:09:47,310 --> 01:09:49,980
much everything can be found
there. Thanks so much for a
1157
01:09:49,980 --> 01:09:54,390
great discussion. John is very
interesting and love conversing
1158
01:09:54,390 --> 01:09:56,250
with people with similar
interests.
1159
01:09:56,940 --> 01:09:59,220
John Miles: Yes, well, thank you
so much for coming on the show
1160
01:09:59,220 --> 01:10:01,980
again. I know this is going to
be a fan favorite. So really
1161
01:10:01,980 --> 01:10:03,270
appreciate you doing this
Rhonda.
1162
01:10:04,770 --> 01:10:07,230
Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Awesome, my
pleasure. Thank you so much,
1163
01:10:07,230 --> 01:10:07,590
John.
1164
01:10:07,740 --> 01:10:10,260
John Miles: I thoroughly enjoyed
that interview with Dr. Rhonda
1165
01:10:10,260 --> 01:10:12,570
Patrick. I've wanted to have her
on the show for a very long
1166
01:10:12,570 --> 01:10:15,330
time. And I wanted to thank
Rhonda and Dan Patrick for the
1167
01:10:15,330 --> 01:10:18,240
honor and privilege of having
her here today on the show links
1168
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:20,670
to all things Rando will be in
the show notes at Passion
1169
01:10:20,670 --> 01:10:23,580
stark.com. Please use our
website links if you purchase
1170
01:10:23,580 --> 01:10:25,950
any of the books from the guests
that we feature on the Show All
1171
01:10:25,950 --> 01:10:29,520
proceeds go to supporting the
show and making it free for the
1172
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:33,360
listener videos are on YouTube.
At passion struck clips and John
1173
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:35,940
are miles advertiser deals and
discount codes are in one
1174
01:10:35,940 --> 01:10:39,180
convenient place a passionate
start.com/deals. I'm on
1175
01:10:39,180 --> 01:10:42,060
LinkedIn. And you can also find
me at genre miles on both
1176
01:10:42,060 --> 01:10:45,120
Twitter and Instagram. And I
provide daily tidbits of
1177
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:47,820
inspirational content that
complement everything that you
1178
01:10:47,820 --> 01:10:50,760
hear on the show. And if you
want to know how I book amazing
1179
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,430
guests like Dr. Rhonda Patrick,
it's because of my network, go
1180
01:10:53,430 --> 01:10:55,890
out there and build yours before
you need it. You're about to
1181
01:10:55,890 --> 01:10:58,680
hear a preview of the passionate
strike podcast I did with Dr.
1182
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:02,430
John list, who is the Kenneth G.
Griffin Distinguished Professor
1183
01:11:02,460 --> 01:11:05,670
in Economics at the University
of Chicago. He is also the chief
1184
01:11:05,670 --> 01:11:09,180
economist at Walmart, we discuss
his latest book, The voltage
1185
01:11:09,180 --> 01:11:13,440
effect, how to make good ideas,
great and great ideas, scale,
1186
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:19,380
Unknown: scalable ideas are all
alike. Each unscalable idea is
1187
01:11:19,380 --> 01:11:23,850
unscalable in its own way. But
when it's unscalable it will be
1188
01:11:23,850 --> 01:11:28,770
because of one or multiple of
the five vital signs. So each of
1189
01:11:28,770 --> 01:11:32,310
these five vital signs you need
to check the box. And if you
1190
01:11:32,310 --> 01:11:37,500
check the box of each one, you
have an idea that has the DNA of
1191
01:11:37,500 --> 01:11:41,160
something that's scalable, you
still have to execute. And
1192
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:44,370
that's what the second half of
the book is about. It's four
1193
01:11:44,370 --> 01:11:48,000
little behavioral economics
secrets to execution. But the
1194
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:52,260
first half really establishes
there is a science of scaling in
1195
01:11:52,260 --> 01:11:55,980
a science of ideas. And we need
to start taking that science
1196
01:11:55,980 --> 01:11:56,700
seriously.
1197
01:11:57,090 --> 01:11:59,740
John Miles: Remember, we rise by
lifting others so please share
1198
01:11:59,792 --> 01:12:02,910
the show with those that you
love and care about if you know
1199
01:12:02,962 --> 01:12:05,925
someone who is looking at
longevity bio hacks or wants to
1200
01:12:05,977 --> 01:12:08,991
understand the science behind
saunas, and definitely share
1201
01:12:09,043 --> 01:12:12,213
today's episode. The greatest
compliment that you can give us
1202
01:12:12,265 --> 01:12:15,488
is to share the show with those
that you care and love. In the
1203
01:12:15,540 --> 01:12:18,658
meantime, do your best to apply
what you hear on the show so
1204
01:12:18,710 --> 01:12:21,568
that you can live what you
listen. And until next time,
1205
01:12:21,620 --> 01:12:22,920
live life passion struck.