Pełna transkrypcja odcinka Connection & Restoration: Helping Kids Learn from Mistakes with Bridget Johnson

that I learned it was a huge light bulb moment for me was that, you know, we think we know what's going on. We have made assumptions, you know, we're the adults here. ⁓ I've seen this before, or you've done that before and you think you know. You don't know. It's really you're seeing the tip of the iceberg. And oftentimes we're not curious enough because either we're frustrated or we don't have enough time. And we don't ask the questions that will really get to the heart of what's going on. And kids know that and they know when you're engaged, they know when you're kind of just Checking the box and they'll respond accordingly. And so I had to slow down as a dean and not assume that I knew what was going on and be curious. So I encourage parents to be a little bit more curious about what's going on. And I know sometimes that's a eye roll from kids when you ask a lot of questions, but sometimes those questions can give you some insights that you actually didn't didn't have or didn't even think about. Do you have some favorite questions that we can pilfer from you? Like Great questions that always seem to work or icebreaker questions that you're like, all right, I'm gonna warm this kid up. Well, usually, you know, what I have been ⁓ saying a lot lately with even Deans ⁓ in the student life work is connection before correction. So spending a little bit of time just like, how's it going? What is happening? How'd that thing go last week? Or what's happened, what's coming up for you this week that you're nervous about? Is that giving you anxiety? You know, one of the things that I, you know, started as like, just what happened? Right? Like you think you seen that you your your child did something, you're like, ⁓ why did you usually it's why did you do that? Instead of saying why, like, what's happening here? What's going on? What made you make that decision? And and thinking about things that way is a you know, it's a slight change, but can really shift the the ⁓ trajectory of the conversation. I really Like what you just said about starting with getting the kids' perspective on what happened. And I really like that you just reminded us also that a lot of times we think we know what happened. We might not know. And case in point, I'm thinking about a perfect example. I've got three kids. So many times, one will come up the stairs and say, so-and-so did X to me. And my first inclination is to completely believe them, march down the stairs and be like, I'm gonna get this child in trouble, right? I'm gonna teach him a lesson, right? And really, I do such a better job when I do what you just recommended, which is to say, Hey, I just heard this. Can you tell me about what just happened from your perspective? Because a lot of times there's a thing before the thing before the thing. It's a lot more complicated than I originally thought. So that is such good advice, Bridget. Thank you. Thank you. Absolutely. And even before like marching down and and like having the conversation with the the other child saying, walk me through what happened. Tell me in your own words what happened. Cause it might already you might be get to the the bottom of things before you even have a conversation with the second child. Yeah. Well, and with that first child, I totally agree, Bridget. And and you just reminded me a lot of times it's like, well, why do you think they did that? They're like, well, because I hit them. You're like, well. ⁓ okay. You know, yes. Our kids, these are all beautiful learning opportunities. This is job security for us parents and mid-life professionals. But so our kids are gonna mess up. They're gonna get in trouble. Absolutely. That's what they're supposed to do. That is the whole purpose of adolescence. They are finding where the boundaries are. They are finding where the line is, and they're like, Can I put my toe on the line? Can I hover my leg over the line? What if I do like the karate kid things over the line? Is that okay? And is exhausting for us, but that is the process. That's how they learn. That's how they kind of figure out who they are as individuals. And we have to let some of that just happen. I don't think we can hear that enough as parents because there is a piece of us, whether we admit it or not, that sort of hangs on to our children's. Success or failure as a measure of our ability? ⁓ absolutely. And so what is it like? Obviously, like you've probably partnered with lots of deans over the years. You've pro partnered with lots of student life people. You've been one yourself. What are some stories you've heard about parents who've done a good job in the moment where they're, you know, when you're seeing those parents and you're seeing those kids and the parents are responding well? What are some things they do that you're like, I wish all parents would do this? Well, one, when you have to talk to the dean about your child, you're nervous, your defenses are up, you're ready to protect your child. You don't want them to have, you know, feel any harm or hurt or pain, right? That's usually usually the general thought. And that's a that's a normal, honest reaction, and it's natural. You want to protect your own, right? But I would say before we do that. Let's just take a step, take a deep breath, and come in with an open mind and listen to what the ⁓ the dean or the person that you're having the conversation with has to say about what's going on and try and kind of take that emotional kind of noise out, which is really hard to do. Let me be clear. I'm not saying, ⁓ just, you know, don't be emotional about your child having to have a conversation with the dean or go through the discipline process. That's an emotional time. And that's okay. But if you can just kind of take that down a little bit and say, okay, let me just hear what's going on. Let me actually also ask questions of my child about what's happening. And let's not take everything at face value because again,

there's usually more to the story. And you also want to make sure that you're asking questions of the adults too, to make sure that because sometimes they've got some things that they didn't actually disclose. I'm at that time that could be helpful for you. So context matters. When we can have a conversation and a back and forth about what's going on, not an accusatory or you don't like my child or you guys have never treated my child right, that it just makes it hard for everyone involved. I think what I really hear you saying is that partnership, curiosity is gonna get you and your child further. And support your child better. Absolutely than our natural fight or flight response will. Coming in hot, right? And the you know, the other thing I would suggest is before any of this comes up, like getting to know the folks at the school. And so for some parents that's easier than others, ⁓ with you know, with schedules, but if there is a a game that you can go to or if there's a time that you can come in and just say hello and introduce yourself or build relationship with those adults on campus, then we also have some connection there that comes before the correction part too. So as much as you can ⁓ be a presence ⁓ on your ⁓ kids' campus. And if you can't get there in person, you know, schedule some time to do a Zoom or just to kind of touch base with the people that are the adults that are in your child's life. I think what's really interesting too is I I've heard this and I've felt this also as a parent. At the elementary level, you feel super connected with the teacher. ⁓ absolutely. And and maybe you see the principal every day at the carpal line. The carpal line, uh-huh. All of that. Yep. But as you get older, or not you, well, you do, but also you Well, we all get older, unfortunately. As we get older. The kids, you know, in middle school, you know less of the teachers and potentially less of the admin. And high school the same. And a lot of times as parents, you really don't know them until your child is in trouble. And so I love that advice about just making that correction. Or that connection before you have the correction. That's so good. That's like a positive discipline we know for kids works for adults. Exactly. And I think it leads us into this next idea of the power of belonging and the power of how student life professionals really work to foster that for kids. Can you talk to us a little bit about, you know, what are deans and and student life professionals doing to foster belonging at school and why that's really important? And what parents can do to support that? Yeah, you know, belonging, and I feel like that's kind of the new buzzword in some ways right now. A lot of people talking about belonging, which is great because we wanna, we don't just want participation, right? Because that's not a clear metric of whether or not a student feels like they belong, that they're seen, that they heard, and that they matter. And so that's the thing that I think that student-like professionals are focusing on, not just kind of how many kids are doing what, how they're showing up, but looking at the engagement, looking at how they are kind of interacting with their peers, you know, having spaces where kids can kind of talk about in smaller groups what's going on, microcommunities or what we call advisory. You know, thinking about those spaces where there is, you know, a a smaller opportunity or a smaller space where kids can really talk about how they're feeling and what's happening, or hear about kind of how they're feeling like they're disconnected or don't feel like they're a part of. Oftentimes we'll hear those things and then we start to fix, right? We don't ask the kids like what would be helpful for you here. We've already decided, we know what to do, so we're gonna go in and fix. But I caution people, both parents and adults in schools, to pause a minute. And actually ask the kids what would be helpful in this situation. Cause some kids were like, it'll be fine, it'll blow over. I I understand what's going on while we're over here trying to fix, fix, fix, fix, fix. Other times I do have some concrete ideas about what would be helpful. And we need to spend some time listening to that. What really is rolling through my mind right now is two things. One, all the work of Al Alfred Adler, the psychologist who's Positive discipline is based off of it's like the two things that motivate human behavior is belonging and significance, which pairs up with the most recent research from David Yeager around children ages 10 to 25, that they really are focused on status, which is like a combination of those two things, right? And how when we get at the root of that, it's beautiful. And I think what you said though, that I really want to highlight is that so many times as adults, We strip away significance by taking the fixing out of the hands of the person. Yeah. And we do it because we're adults and we're like, ⁓ we know. And I love what you said that you ask the kids first. And how many times as a parent we hear a kid or our child say, ⁓ I got a bad grade, or ⁓ I blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And instead of saying, Well, hey. Tell me a little bit more about that, or what do you need to for support, or how do you want to change that? What support do you need from me? We're like, here's what you should do. We're swooping in. I got this. I got this. Let me put my cape on. One second. And and that is so natural. It is. Absolutely. Absolutely natural. So we have to like say, wait, bite your tongue. And so Need that little person on your shoulder saying, one second, just slow down. Well, and you really make someone feel like they belong and like they're important when you ask for their opinion about Absolutely. Absolutely. So adults, you can make your child feel like they belong by listening to them. Hashtag Bridget Johnson, put it on the Okay. So on the flip side of belonging, then there's

sort of this like, you know, middle school, high school, a lot of times, I don't feel like I belong. I don't feel like I'm important. But there are other things that I know deans have a little view into, or the student life professionals, like all the counselors, have a little view into out of like, here are some of the things that are going on that students are struggling with right now that might not be the same things that we struggled with as ⁓ absolutely. ⁓ my gosh. It's so hard. So much harder now. There's so many things. Give us the update. Give us the scoop. What do we need to be on the lookout for? Well, I mean, I we talk about this a lot already, but you know, social media has really changed ⁓ lives, everyone's lives, not just students' lives, but even my life. I mean, my life is wholly different and how I spend kind of my downtime and free time b with the advent of social media. But think about it this way in terms of students and not feeling like, you know, when we left school and we, you know, kind of came home, like that was our sanctuary in some ways. And now there's no escape. you're seeing this stuff all the time. And if you don't have some sort of like, you know, kind of curfew with social media or your phone, this can go well into the e night, not even evening, well into the night. And so you're distracted, you're comparing yourself to what other folks are doing. You're saying, ⁓ I need to be better. And what w all the negative things there people are are doing out there and not being kind and not having civil discourse and all of those things. affect kind of what kids are thinking about, how they feel like they're supposed to be in the world, what they need to do to give themselves status. You know, all those things that we've been talking about can really make it difficult for kids to figure out like how to be, really. And so so that's one thing. And I think the other thing is just we have now, for for better or for worse, like piled so many things in terms of tutoring and you know, working out and sports teams and AAU and travel this and travel that and you've got to build up your resume and like where do you want to go to college in third grade and like all of these things and like kids are really stressed because the parents are stressed. And so it's the it's the kind of the not the hamster wheel. I I don't know what to call it at this point, but this kind of you know, road to achievement, right? You know, everyone's got an idea of what it's gonna take for their child to succeed and what success looks like and what you talk to your friends about in terms of, you know, we do the same thing that the kids are doing. We're comparing, like how's the your child doing? And ⁓ my child's not doing that. Are we behind? Boy, we sometimes put too much stock in what we think will make our children happy and successful. Again, instead of asking and thinking about what they would like. The best thing for your child is for them to be excited and happy about the next level, not to just say, Well, this is what my parents wanted me to do or this is what I'm supposed to do. There's so many options out there now. It's and And you know, some people hate when I say this, but like a four year college is not necessarily the only option anymore. And it's not the only pathway to success. And so ⁓ our us traditionalists out there think that that's really the only way. And not only four year college, but certain four year colleges. And so thinking about that differently can really take the stress and the pressure off everyone. I wanna stay on this for a minute because it sounds to me I I don't think parents who've just been listening probably have thought quite so deeply as you have about would you see kids struggling when you see as a dean or as a counselor or as whatever student life professional you're in, you see a pattern of kids coming in. It's not just one, it's a lot who are overscheduled, who are stressed, who are always pushed to achieve or Perhaps without enough reflection about why or to what end. Yeah. Have you ever counseled some families or have you counseled ⁓ student life professionals around how to help families with this? Like what is their first best step to take if they're like, We want to get off this hamster wheel, but it just feels impossible? What what's my first step I need to take? Well, you gotta think about why why you're doing this. Kind of what's the end goal? And is it your end goal or is it your child's end goal? And that can get a little complicated. ⁓ and so you need to just be okay. Like, we're human, we're not perfect, and and it's okay to be like, ooh, maybe I'm a little too hard charging in this area, or maybe I need to take a step back. Maybe this is more about me than it is about them. And so that's the first question. What's the end goal here? And also talk to your Child again, what's the end goal for them? Are we lining up? Because it's different if everyone's on board about what the goal is and understanding kind of what it may take to get to a certain goal. No, and that's different for everyone. And there's some like if you want to go to MIT and you want to major in, you know, bio blah blah blah, because I am not a science person. There are certain things that you have to do. There are certain classes that you have to take. There are certain marks that you're gonna have to make before you are even eligible to do those things. And so do you s how do you set yourself up for that path? And so there are paths, right? And so also, you know, yeah, I say that, but then I take a step back because also people, I wanna play professional sports or I wanna do, I wanna even play at the college level. And so for some people. People think that that means, okay, now you have to do all that sport all the time. That's the only thing you can do. There's no other pathway. Now we need to get you trainers and all the things. And that's also not necessarily true

anymore. And so just thinking about healthy ways to ⁓ kind of ⁓ achieve the goal that you want, ⁓ that still gives you some some free time, some agency and some space. To be a child, because what people forget is that once you get to that next level, you know, the the tr the pathway to adulthood, ⁓ you're in the fast lane. And so it comes at you pretty fast and you're wishing, ⁓ what happened to spring break? What happened to those times? You don't we don't get spring break as adults, ⁓ unless you work in schools, but you know, if you're in corporate America, there's no spring break. Not really. So you might get three weeks of vacation a year. So think about that. Is that what you want to rush to? Well, and Bridget, I think you bring up something really interesting because I think a lot of times there are these sort of milestones that we look at those without looking at the like further ones. So when I coach families, I always start with exactly what you talked about, which is the why. Like, why are you doing all this? What do you want? What are you trying to achieve? And actually, like I really challenge families to look even more forward than college or a job, but like the kind of person they want their kids to be. Yeah. Because honestly, that's actually the piece that you guys will probably agree on. Like your kids and you might not agree on whether they should go to whatever college or whether they should take six APs or whether they should have this type of job or make this kind of money. That's actually your kids' decision and you can certainly be a guide, but you all both will agree, hopefully That you want to be good person. You want to be a person of character, of honesty, of loyalty, integrity, you know, trustworthiness, all that stuff. That doesn't negate the other milestones. Not at all. It just puts them at like a little bit less, right? Of an intensity. And I wonder if what I'm hearing you say is that parents are maybe forgetting that farther piece because they're they have their eyes so fixed on college or, you know, the varsity team or the six APs. I agree with you one thousand percent. We've gotta think about people and and not the goals and not the kind of the achievements. You know, if you ask a parent if you would rather your child to be happy and healthy and safe or have a lot of achievements, which would you choose? Yeah. Well and I think this circles back to what you were saying earlier about the real hard struggle of social media. Mm-hmm. And that comparison trap we can get into because we see what other people are doing, like, wow, they went on a you know, six day baseball tournament to play the Braves. And ⁓ you know, like my kid's still hitting off a whistle ball, like, ⁓ gosh, we were mine. And that I think what you just highlighted is something for parents to be aware of because it can create anxiety in parents. ⁓ absolutely. Yeah. What are some of the, you know, let's The kids who maybe have kind of overcommitted, what are some of the things that a parent could look for if they are like, Are we doing too much? Like what what are some of the signs that student life professionals see coming out at school of kids who are stressed, anxious, overcommitted, you know, struggling with the pace of their life? How much sleep do they get at night? ⁓ can mm-hmm. Sleep matters for all of us, not just students, but certainly during your adolescent years, you want to make sure that they're getting enough sleep. And are they up because they are working on projects? Are they up because they didn't have enough time to do their homework because they were at four other things in the evening? With that, so how free time and downtime is spent? Do they have any? And what and if they do, what is that time spent doing? ⁓ I think those are the two things that you can look at. And we see how that manifests itself when kids come to school and they've had the average five hours of sleep. Like, are you kidding? I would be a mess ⁓ at a as an adult. But thinking about that for students who le need at least eight to ten hours of sleep, if they're operating on five hours of sleep, that ⁓ can only go on for so long before that unravels. And you see that in irritability, you see that in just a lack of being able to focus. ⁓ you see that in just being just kind of a zombie. I feel like you're not just preaching about student care and self-care, you're also preaching about parent self-care. You know, I laugh like so many parents, their lives and mine included, revolves so much around our kids' activities and their schooling. And they're on one hand, there's something beautiful about that sacrifice. And it Ought to be that way. And on the other hand, there's something disturbing about it and the way that it can lead to entitlement, it can lead to codependence, it can lead to kids not feeling like they can do anything and therefore don't have to do anything, right? It's just like there's so much imbalance that I know that the student life leaders at schools are really thinking about. Yes, balance. So what Do you see deans working on or student life professionals working on right now in schools that you're really excited about that you think is going to help move the needle on some of this for kids and for their families? Yeah, that's a good question. And I think a lot of student life people are thinking about restorative practices and relationships a lot right now because again, that connection, right? And so how you can kind of see what's going on with students, how you can better support them. How you will know if they're feeling like they belong and that they're being seen and that they matter is by building those relationships. But first, you know, starts with the adults on campus, right? Modeling that good behavior in terms of how we check on each other, how we show up for people, how we support them, ⁓ and and signaling that we care about, you know, the the people that we work with. We

can't do that work with students. If we don't start first with the adults. But I that's the thing that I'm seeing right now that's very heartwarming for me, that people are really, you know, thinking about relationships more in a way that they hadn't before. So, Bridget, for parents who aren't familiar with restorative practice, can you give us the like dumbed-down version? Absolutely. Restorative practice is really the science behind relationships, full stop. ⁓ relationships matter when you think about the community. and ⁓ repairing harm. And so you can't restore anything that you haven't already had, right? So you can't restore something back if there's nothing there. And so that's what restorative practices talks about is how you build relationship and how you acknowledge and make sure that people feel like they matter before there is harm. So that when there is harm, that you have something to go back to. What we want ⁓ people to think about is how We are building relationships in our everyday lives, knowing that we're not perfect, knowing that we're gonna make mistakes. And when we do, being able to call back and ⁓ on that relationship to get grace, ⁓ benefit of the doubt, those sorts of things, so that we can move forward in a healthy way. So I'm hearing you say, like you have continued to say in this podcast, relationships are important. Proactive relationship building, connection is important between parents, students, and that that triangle of connection and really strong connection is what when somebody does something human, since we take human all the time. That because we have those relationships, because we have that connection, we can repair the broken in a lot easier way. And that we respond to mistakes and brokenness with an eye towards repair, which I think is really special. I feel like that's a change from when you and I were growing up. ⁓ absolutely. Even when I was, you know, as a dean, I I feel like that ⁓ thinking has shifted. I'm like, man, if I had these tools with me as a dean, things would have felt differently. Well, and it's funny that you say that because you know, belonging and significance, those are feelings. Right. You feel like you belong. You might not actually belong, but as long as you feel like you believe it's good. Yeah. Everyone's good. You might feel like you're important. And that's what's important. So let's take an example right now. Let's say my child cheated on a test. Well, when I was in school where I went to school, that could be grounds for expulsion, where it's like, okay, you cheated. Sorry, Bub, you're out. Right. And that is one certain obvious consequence and depending on school policy and stuff. That, but let's say it's a sixth grader who's brand new to the school, and you know, y'all have decided to have a little bit of a like, well, let's teach this, let's use this as a teachable moment instead of a punishment moment. What might restoration look like now versus when we were growing up for a situation like that? So I I love the example you brought up, and I love the fact that you said, you know, kind of punishment, because one of the things that people talk about or they think that restorative practices is is the absence of consequences. And that's not true at all. You know, it can be both and there can be some restorative work that happens about repairing the harm that you've done to the community. And there also can be consequences for your actions because that's the world we live in. And so if we walk down that path of saying that there are no consequences for your actions, we're not setting students up for success in the real world. The difference is is that we're not just handing out ⁓ a ⁓ ⁓ consequence or punishment. The difference is now we we talk about why we we made the decisions that we made, what sort of harm that this caused in the community, how we can repair that harm, but then also what are the consequences for causing harm in the community? If we want to keep down the likelihood of reoccurrence, that's what we need to do because if we don't talk about these things and don't talk about the why, then they're more likely to re-reoffend. For lack of a better term. I think that's so cool. So I think about like, let's say my child cheats today, instead of just being suspended or expelled or getting a zero. That those things might still happen. They might, yeah, absolutely. And probably should in some ways, right? But there's the with r restoration, there's an and piece. Exactly. You have the consequence, and you empower a kid to learn how to make it right. So maybe they have to like write an apology letter or they have to do the assignment over, or they have to do a presentation on the temptations of cheating and how to avoid them with AI, you know, or whatever. In order to help that child come back into the community and not be ostracized. Exactly. I'm curious because, you know, every parent out here, their nightmare is for their kid to get in so much trouble that they get expelled or suspended or are a consistent behavior issue. Sure. Are schools doing anything where they are also helping the parents get restored with their kid or the parents feel restored back into the community? Cause that feels like a piece that a lot of parents they're like, everyone's gonna hate me because my child is that did X, right? And so that's a great question, Peyton. And I think ⁓ people are starting to do that work, but I think there's more work that needs to be done in that area. And talking about restorative practices with families at whether it's you know parent-teacher conferences or newsletters or however you communicate with your your parent community, that language needs to be in there as well because we want everyone speaking the same language. We don't want kids to have different language at home than they do at school. And so if everyone's thinking about this in that way, then when these things arise, we're we're all

talking about kind of what needs to happen next and and how. And what we're restoring to. Well, and I think what you've also just provided us for parents listening is an incredible model for how to be strong and kind by holding your children to expectations, by allowing consequences, and then by adding this piece that we didn't have when we were growing up, which is then teaching your child or guiding your child into How to make it up, how to come back in to the family or to relationship with you in a way that they can then use the rest of their lives with their colleagues and their spouses and their kids when they mess up. And I just think that's a really beautiful model that I I I'm like, let's do a workshop, Bridget, for parents. And this. I'd love to, happy to do that. I think that's great. And I think the more that parents are thinking about. ⁓ relationships with their children in that way, the happy and healthier I think people overall will be, not just the students, but the the parents as well. I laugh. Teachers always say they wear many hats, but parents wear all the hats. You are the dean. You are the student life. We are the nurse in school with it. But we are a microcosm of school. And school is a microcosm of a like when it's done well, like a really good family. Absolutely. So I I just love that partnership. And I think the work you're doing with Deans at Deans Roundtable, with your podcast, with all the resources that you have coming out to support deans and student life professionals. Parents, you all need to share all this stuff with your schools because Bridget has got some fantastic stuff coming out. ⁓ Bridget, where can they find more information about what you're doing that they can share with their schools or that they might even be able to like steal and use themselves? ⁓ absolutely. So website dingsroundtable.org is where you can get all that information. We ⁓ post weekly blog posts on LinkedIn, Instagram, and TikTok, but all of those things are on the website. So if you go to website, it's one stop shop. There's also a link to the podcast. So if you're interested in listening to the podcast, you can do that as well. And so, but also, you know, I'm here as a resource. If you have some questions for me, would like to reach out. Bridget at dingsroundtable.org is where you can find me. Bridget, that is so fantastic. I hope a lot of people reach out and call you. Your podcast is fantastic. All your LinkedIn work is so good. I strongly recommend a like, follow, and share for her. Thank you. And you know, we will definitely put all your contact information in the show notes as well. Bridget, if as we wrap up, is there anything that you're like, gosh, I just want to close with this? ⁓ that's a good question. You know, I I think we need to all of us need to give ourselves a little bit more grace. We are working hard out here, we are trying our best, and we are human and we're not perfect. So it's okay to say, you know what, I'm gonna do over, I'm gonna do this again, or I'm sorry I didn't get this quite right. I am striving to do things a little bit differently and a little bit better. And and thank you for giving me that grace. Bridget, the words I'm taking out of today are connection and restoration. ⁓ I love it. Well, y'all, that is it for this episode of What Great Teachers Know That All Parents Can Use. I'm Peyton Williams from Bobend Consulting, signing off till next time. Thank you for sharing all the things you learn in this podcast with the people you love.