Pełna transkrypcja odcinka Your Website Can't Compete With This New Rule

that are currently getting cited by these LLMs and then incentivizing them to promote your brand and talk about your brand uh from a content piece that is optimized in order to get cited. 00:02:43.531 --> 00:02:48.102 Um so that way you see that visibility score take off over time. 00:02:48.102 --> 00:03:07.074 and I have found in the last month that an article that I wrote that has the top 14 video platforms for entrepreneurs is the number one source of traffic to my newsletter. 00:03:07.074 --> 00:03:19.986 What is the LLM doing then in real time going out and checking all these websites like myunnoticedentrepreneur.com or fortuneentrepreneur.com? 00:03:19.986 --> 00:03:20.913 Yeah, absolutely. 00:03:20.913 --> 00:03:27.336 So what these LLMs do is that they usually are a neural network that has a cutoff when it comes to their training. 00:03:27.336 --> 00:03:33.358 So you know, with the latest and best models usually have a cutoff point of a few months ago. 00:03:33.358 --> 00:03:36.758 So their information inherently is not up to date. 00:03:36.758 --> 00:03:43.241 So what all LLMs have done in order to battle that of that is that they basically have turned into a search engine. 00:03:43.241 --> 00:04:10.533 So when you ask any uh questions that uh requires the model to know The latest information, what it does is that it conducts this process is called RAG, which essentially is just searching the web and uh figuring out what other articles are currently uh that that they can read that's been published since after their training date cut off, that they can reference in order to come up with an up-to-date and useful response. 00:04:10.533 --> 00:04:17.997 So what brands can do when you ask it a question, for example, hey, what are the best um tennis shoes? 00:04:17.997 --> 00:04:30.593 for playing tennis uh is that if you actually look at the model behavior is that he actually goes and reads usually dozens of sources, reputable sources in that space. 00:04:30.593 --> 00:04:37.495 And there usually a lot of people think, oh, it's from other people's website like from our competitors' websites, from my own website. 00:04:37.495 --> 00:04:41.615 Usually we see 85% are actually from external websites. 00:04:41.615 --> 00:04:47.774 So they're so it's n no longer enough just to optimize your own website to get cited. 00:04:47.774 --> 00:04:55.444 It's now imperative to make sure your brand is mentioned and vouched for by other external publications. 00:04:55.444 --> 00:05:00.199 So that's a really, really key point for anyone uh that's contemplating this. 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:07.483 What Farzad has just said is that your own website really may not even need tending at all. 00:05:07.483 --> 00:05:15.589 That you're really needing to do what in the old days was PR was to have the authority of a third party website. 00:05:15.589 --> 00:05:16.711 Farzad, right? 00:05:16.711 --> 00:05:28.812 So how does then link building and as you call it sort of digital brand mentions compared to what we would have called public relations in the old days. 00:05:28.812 --> 00:05:29.442 Right. 00:05:29.442 --> 00:05:34.494 Well the genus the the gist of it is that it's all follow the same principle. 00:05:34.494 --> 00:05:36.774 You're trying to get external validation, right? 00:05:36.774 --> 00:05:42.466 So it's it's one thing if I say, hey, we're the best for this, it means nothing. 00:05:42.466 --> 00:05:49.298 So uh but when somebody else says it and they are an authoritative source in your space, that means something. 00:05:49.298 --> 00:05:56.629 So that's the basis of how all of these search engines work back in the day when Google, you know, beat all the other search engines. 00:05:56.629 --> 00:05:59.463 was by developing this algorithm called page rank. 00:05:59.463 --> 00:06:07.247 So instead of just looking at the keywords on the homepage or the website, because uh you know you can easily manipulate that by keyboard stuffing. 00:06:07.247 --> 00:06:12.401 And that's how Google became Google is by looking at other sources. 00:06:12.401 --> 00:06:14.362 So this concept of Backlinks got into do. 00:06:14.362 --> 00:06:28.403 So the more authoritative websites in your space link back to your website or mention you and talk about you, uh it essentially passes along what we call uh link equity or or considered like a vote to popularity. 00:06:28.403 --> 00:06:31.766 And that's what uh pushes the websites up in the search ranks. 00:06:31.766 --> 00:06:44.312 Now the same principles also apply for LLM mentions, is that the more you're vouched for and talked about by other reputable publications, the more likely it is that you show up in the answer. 00:06:44.312 --> 00:06:46.233 But there are some nuances to that. 00:06:46.233 --> 00:06:49.562 So I'm happy to dive into it uh if that makes sense. 00:06:49.562 --> 00:06:50.423 Yes, please do. 00:06:50.423 --> 00:06:56.716 So we've got a smaller brand, you know, the SME, for example, the entrepreneur. 00:06:56.716 --> 00:07:12.499 what does that mean in terms of their brand onto one of these Because historically those bigger websites will only take news or articles or mentions from big brands. 00:07:12.499 --> 00:07:13.158 Mm-hmm. 00:07:13.158 --> 00:07:15.391 Yeah, so that's an excellent question. 00:07:15.391 --> 00:07:22.723 So a lot of people think that, oh, I need to get, like, for example, Forbes to mention me, uh, or I need to go on Reddit. 00:07:22.723 --> 00:07:33.029 so if you actually look at the percentage of citations, for example, Reddit is uh right around 5% or less of the citations. 00:07:33.029 --> 00:07:41.495 the vast majority of sources that get cited by these LLMs are actually not popular sources that you have heard of. 00:07:41.495 --> 00:07:47.423 They're The reason why is that there's something called topical authority for a publication. 00:07:47.423 --> 00:07:54.425 So when a website writes about anything and everything, like a

news site like Forbes, they're not a topical expert on anything. 00:07:54.425 --> 00:07:57.387 That website doesn't have a focus. 00:07:57.387 --> 00:08:03.869 They're writing about lifestyle and celebrity net worth and and also B2B SaaS. 00:08:03.869 --> 00:08:10.944 So the type of domains that we see to actually get cited by these LLMs are websites that are usually other companies. 00:08:10.944 --> 00:08:19.108 They have a blog or they have a content piece published on a website that's writing uh about a topic that they're an expert of. 00:08:19.108 --> 00:08:23.180 and and so those are the type of citations and mentions you want to go after. 00:08:23.180 --> 00:08:31.793 It's not necessarily chasing after you know, just doing PR for the sake of like doing that study and and publishing it on on publications. 00:08:31.793 --> 00:08:35.235 I I found little evidence and correlation between those. 00:08:35.235 --> 00:08:44.294 and what I found that works well, and that's something that we help direct our clients to is by analyzing the current citation pool for LLMs. 00:08:44.294 --> 00:08:48.756 being used by these LLMs and then you replicate what already works. 00:08:48.756 --> 00:08:50.349 So I'm happy to dive into that. 00:08:50.349 --> 00:08:58.428 Yeah, so I know we're getting a bit technical, but it's fascinating because it's changing the game entirely. 00:08:58.428 --> 00:09:12.149 And one of the dimensions to what you said is that in the PR business, which you know I had for 25 years in agency, clients focused really on the high profile publication that the CEO read. 00:09:12.149 --> 00:09:16.520 alluding to or stating is that yeah, absolutely, sort of. 00:09:16.520 --> 00:09:18.606 So you're you wrong direction? 00:09:18.606 --> 00:09:20.386 Have I gone barking down the wrong? 00:09:20.386 --> 00:09:22.147 Okay. 00:09:22.147 --> 00:09:23.130 Yeah. 00:09:23.130 --> 00:09:25.793 we usually see there are not news articles most of the time at all. 00:09:25.793 --> 00:09:30.807 Like look at paid advertising, TV advertising, PR. 00:09:30.807 --> 00:09:40.285 So when you whittle it down to SEO or GEO, that's what people call it, which is for search engine optimization, or some people call it generative engine optimization. 00:09:40.285 --> 00:09:43.283 Um, that's a different marketing channel. 00:09:43.283 --> 00:09:52.292 The way these engines work is basically if you want to show up in those answers, you need to go and be placed where they're looking. 00:09:52.292 --> 00:09:55.784 So, what happens is that, and it varies usually based on the industry. 00:09:55.784 --> 00:10:04.842 So, what you would need to do is to run the prompts you want to optimize for, like in your case, would be what are the best marketing podcasts for entrepreneurs. 00:10:04.842 --> 00:10:12.542 You run that prompt through any of the LLMs you want to optimize for, and then Take a look at the citations that show you where they're pulling their answers from. 00:10:12.542 --> 00:10:17.649 And then what you want to do is to replicate that citation pool. 00:10:17.649 --> 00:10:26.418 So not to do any guesswork, is to actually go and see, okay, what are the type of domains and the type of content that the LLM is searching for? 00:10:26.418 --> 00:10:29.461 So in that model's chain of thought, what are the questions it's asking? 00:10:29.461 --> 00:10:31.823 What are some of the content pieces it's referencing? 00:10:31.823 --> 00:10:34.230 And on what type of domains. 00:10:34.230 --> 00:10:40.484 And then what usually happens is that a lot of people try to get themselves cited on those specific citations that they pull. 00:10:40.484 --> 00:10:43.923 So they try to round reach, but obviously success rate on those are low. 00:10:43.923 --> 00:10:56.910 so what we've seen that works really well is actually find similar publications that follow the same structure of keyword pattern and and authority, and then write a new piece of content that follows the structure of that exist in citation. 00:10:56.910 --> 00:10:59.996 So once these new articles go live and get indexed. 00:10:59.996 --> 00:11:18.548 They end up replacing a lot of older citations, you see that visibility scoring go up over so a key part of what you're doing as a responder is helping people to understand which publishing websites they need to be on because those are the ones that the LLMs are tracking. 00:11:18.548 --> 00:11:19.827 Is that correct? 00:11:19.827 --> 00:11:20.589 Is that right? 00:11:20.589 --> 00:11:21.149 Yep. 00:11:21.149 --> 00:11:22.109 Okay. 00:11:22.109 --> 00:11:24.635 And you do that within the platform, presumably. 00:11:24.635 --> 00:11:32.389 within Respona, people type in what their domain is, what their product is, and what their avatar is. 00:11:32.389 --> 00:11:33.399 Is that right? 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:35.684 Yeah, so actually if you don't mind I could show you. 00:11:35.684 --> 00:11:38.421 Uh so yeah, absolutely. 00:11:38.421 --> 00:11:46.340 So I actually in preparation for our meeting, I have run a search for the Unnoticed Entrepreneur podcast. 00:11:46.340 --> 00:11:47.317 So want to share? 00:11:47.317 --> 00:11:48.506 Do you like to share screen? 00:11:48.506 --> 00:11:49.421 good you can share screen. 00:11:49.421 --> 00:11:49.923 Perfect. 00:11:49.923 --> 00:11:50.914 that's great. 00:11:50.914 --> 00:12:00.879 So basically I just put in your website here, theunnotice.cc, and I put in some prompts here that the model suggested, like for example, what are the best marketing podcasts for entrepreneurs? 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:08.322 you know, what business podcasts, tech practical branding and visibility teach, excuse me, practical branding and visibility strategies. 00:12:08.322 --> 00:12:10.703 And then I put in the models you care about. 00:12:10.703 --> 00:12:13.993 So that's Google, ChatGBT, Google AI overviews. 00:12:13.993 --> 00:12:19.205 Now what we give you in the second step is your current state of

visibility as a baseline. 00:12:19.205 --> 00:12:23.664 So we sh I'm glad that for people that are listening, it's great. 00:12:23.664 --> 00:12:27.735 For the people that are watching, you can see that it's pretty poor. 00:12:27.735 --> 00:12:29.606 There's a lot of l room to grow here. 00:12:29.606 --> 00:12:30.376 But yeah, absolutely. 00:12:30.376 --> 00:12:37.413 So as you see, there's a lot of podcasts that are getting mentioned like marketing school, Neil Patel Masters of Scale, And and you deserve to be on there. 00:12:37.413 --> 00:12:48.368 So essentially what we do is we run these prompts through the models, and then we take a look and see if they are mentioned, and we pull all the citations that the model's using in order to drive that answer. 00:12:48.368 --> 00:12:54.990 So a lot of it is like 13 best podcasts for entrepreneurs to listen to, best branding podcasts, et cetera. 00:12:54.990 --> 00:12:57.403 And we enrich that by the type. 00:12:57.403 --> 00:12:59.874 And so we see exactly the type of domain they are. 00:12:59.874 --> 00:13:04.586 And then what we do in the last, so that's this is where a lot of tools stop, by the way. 00:13:04.586 --> 00:13:06.427 So they're like, okay, great. 00:13:06.427 --> 00:13:08.048 What am I doing with this information? 00:13:08.048 --> 00:13:17.471 So what Respona does is that we actually run all these prompts and filter out these citations to the editorial links. 00:13:17.471 --> 00:13:21.568 So for example, in this case, this is a article on Salesflare. 00:13:21.568 --> 00:13:25.390 On top 20 podcasts or startup founders in 2026. 00:13:25.390 --> 00:13:32.629 So what we're gonna do is we're gonna actually reach out to Salesflare and see if they'll be interested in adding you on there. 00:13:32.629 --> 00:13:35.077 A lot of the times though, they're not interested. 00:13:35.077 --> 00:13:40.349 So they don't respond, or they're you know, there may be a competing company. 00:13:40.349 --> 00:13:49.976 So what we do in majority of cases, we actually find similar publications to Salesflare that match their metrics and keyword profile. 00:13:49.976 --> 00:13:55.062 And then we write a new piece of content that follows the structure of the citation. 00:13:55.062 --> 00:13:59.803 So it would be top twenty plus podcasts for startup founders in 2026. 00:13:59.803 --> 00:14:06.205 And then we write an updated list that includes your podcast at the top, along with a backlink point into your website. 00:14:06.205 --> 00:14:11.246 So it still carries that same traditional SEO benefit, but more importantly, has your brand. 00:14:11.246 --> 00:14:25.227 Now, what we see, because those um publications are high authority, they basically have the opportunity to get re to replace a lot of the older citations because this LM is always hungry for new updated pieces pieces of content. 00:14:25.227 --> 00:14:28.220 That's the whole point of them even looking at the citations. 00:14:28.220 --> 00:14:36.393 So that's how we see that visibility score tick up over time is by helping you get placed on these type of publications that get cited. 00:14:36.393 --> 00:14:38.599 Farzad, that's fascinating. 00:14:38.599 --> 00:14:43.600 for anyone obviously that's listening, this video will be on the YouTube. 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:49.705 And of course, Farzad will give you a link at the end of the show as well to connect with Farzad. 00:14:49.705 --> 00:14:55.097 But what we've then got is a high domain authority website. 00:14:55.097 --> 00:14:59.889 I know that my current website domain authority is 31, for example, right? 00:14:59.889 --> 00:15:04.091 But it's not showing up on any of your, on any of the LLMs. 00:15:04.091 --> 00:15:05.572 So it's somehow... 00:15:05.572 --> 00:15:12.116 not being cited, even though it's in the top six in the UK and top 2 % worldwide of shows. 00:15:12.116 --> 00:15:22.602 It's invisible, which is fascinating because although it's done its work in some domains, it's completely useless in others. 00:15:22.602 --> 00:15:27.548 First of why would they not want to get an updated article? 00:15:27.548 --> 00:15:31.825 Um well, Jim, how many emails do you get on a on a daily basis? 00:15:31.825 --> 00:15:43.610 uh And actually I get them from people that want to place a backlink article on my website and I've said no because I haven't really understood what was going to happen. 00:15:43.610 --> 00:15:47.811 so there's also ignorance, right, on the behalf of the publisher. 00:15:47.811 --> 00:15:52.610 Like me, you think, am I going to get hacked in some way, right, by publishing this? 00:15:52.610 --> 00:15:54.099 So that's very interesting. 00:15:54.099 --> 00:15:54.469 Right. 00:15:54.469 --> 00:16:02.017 So usually success rate on just reaching out to the raw current citation pool is very has very limited success. 00:16:02.017 --> 00:16:04.759 So that's a a very contrarian thing. 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:10.703 And unless you do it in practice, it it it differs from you know what you would think would happen. 00:16:10.703 --> 00:16:19.188 So you're um basically when you do any sort of cold outreach to people that you have never heard of, the success rate usually hovers around one percent. 00:16:19.188 --> 00:16:19.538 Yes. 00:16:19.538 --> 00:16:28.115 So, if you have a handful, for example, you have 400 citations to reach out to, if you're lucky, you may be able to convert three or four of them to say yes. 00:16:28.115 --> 00:16:29.596 But that will do nothing. 00:16:29.596 --> 00:16:31.238 It's not enough to move the needle. 00:16:31.238 --> 00:16:45.960 So, what we found that works well is to create a pool of opportunities for each one of those citations to find similar publications, write new pieces of content following the structure, but then those new citations end up replacing a lot of older citations. 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:50.428 45% of the citations usually sir uh basically cycle through every month. 00:16:50.428 -->

00:16:52.046 So okay. 00:16:52.046 --> 00:16:53.697 And it's that it's that's interesting. 00:16:53.697 --> 00:16:59.789 That's an interesting statistic that 45 % are refreshing every month, which means two things. 00:16:59.789 --> 00:17:02.591 One is it's never too late to start. 00:17:02.591 --> 00:17:05.031 And the second is that you have to keep going. 00:17:05.031 --> 00:17:05.419 Right? 00:17:05.419 --> 00:17:06.510 You do have to keep going. 00:17:06.510 --> 00:17:08.084 it's not a one-off strategy. 00:17:08.084 --> 00:17:09.565 only company that is doing this. 00:17:09.565 --> 00:17:18.653 So the more of your competitors that are following the strategy, then the more competitive your space gets and the more you have to um follow. 00:17:18.653 --> 00:17:22.955 so it's definitely something that requires upkeep and something you have to do consistently over time. 00:17:22.955 --> 00:17:25.294 Uh Just like any other marketing strategy. 00:17:25.294 --> 00:17:28.326 It's not free to get placed on a organic search results. 00:17:28.326 --> 00:17:40.826 but when you do make a work, you have an evergreen flow of customers coming to you that are already qualified and ready to purchase and they already have established trust in you because they already have you know. 00:17:40.826 --> 00:17:44.250 been recommended to you or recommended to them by by an LLM. 00:17:44.250 --> 00:17:49.607 So usually the conversion rate on those leads are way, way higher than what you would get through ads or any other channel. 00:17:49.607 --> 00:17:50.961 that's very interesting far. 00:17:50.961 --> 00:17:52.132 So a couple of things there. 00:17:52.132 --> 00:17:53.692 You mentioned cost. 00:17:53.692 --> 00:18:13.257 You know, I looked up what value would be if I charged for the unnoticedentrepreneur.com uh and it was about 30 to $40 uh was the value that one of these LLMs gave me for my domain for posting something. 00:18:13.257 --> 00:18:20.722 uh to pursue this link building strategy. 00:18:20.722 --> 00:18:22.065 How does that work? 00:18:22.065 --> 00:18:22.568 Yep. 00:18:22.568 --> 00:18:27.869 So that depends on how competitive the I would say the industry is. 00:18:27.869 --> 00:18:33.010 And so what for us, what we do is we have a flat rate price per placement. 00:18:33.010 --> 00:18:34.442 So we take care of the whole thing. 00:18:34.442 --> 00:18:37.372 It's a done for you service from start to finish. 00:18:37.372 --> 00:18:39.393 And the pricing is paid per placement. 00:18:39.393 --> 00:18:41.094 So it's guaranteed placements. 00:18:41.094 --> 00:18:46.714 It starts starts from $100 per placement and all the way up to $500 per placement. 00:18:46.714 --> 00:18:50.756 And when you place an order, uh you can actually uh select. 00:18:50.756 --> 00:18:53.397 the quality tier you like to get a placement on. 00:18:53.397 --> 00:19:01.133 When we run our own analysis, we give you an action plan that gives you exactly how many uh brand mentions you need and

what quality tier. 00:19:01.133 --> 00:19:02.202 So it's not guesswork. 00:19:02.202 --> 00:19:04.173 You're basically going off of a plan. 00:19:04.173 --> 00:19:22.157 Okay, $100 to get one, but the ROI of that could be that you're then found in an LLM or do you have some target that you need to do five or six or 10? 00:19:22.157 --> 00:19:23.204 Yeah, absolutely. 00:19:23.204 --> 00:19:24.586 So there's no minimum. 00:19:24.586 --> 00:19:32.612 Uh one thing uh so for each set of prompts, we when we run the analysis, we tell you exactly how many citations we need to go and replicate. 00:19:32.612 --> 00:19:40.627 And and then we will calculate the total cost, you know, depending on uh how many prompts you want to optimize for, how many models you want to optimize for. 00:19:40.627 --> 00:19:44.710 If you want to start with just one model, one prompt is much less expensive. 00:19:44.710 --> 00:19:51.469 And if you want to shoot for the stars and go after more keyword or more prompts and more models and obviously it's gonna cost more. 00:19:51.469 --> 00:19:55.741 so when it comes to Respona, we have a flat rate price per placement. 00:19:55.741 --> 00:20:07.632 And then when you place your order or or when you create a campaign, we actually give you um how much exactly it's gonna cost to uh get ranked and and and maximize your visibility. 00:20:07.632 --> 00:20:10.943 So your monthly budget essentially determines how long that's gonna be. 00:20:10.943 --> 00:20:14.767 So if you're spending like a thousand dollars a month, it's gonna take a number of years. 00:20:14.767 --> 00:20:19.020 You know, if you're spending you know, five to ten grand a month is gonna take a few months. 00:20:19.020 --> 00:20:22.886 So that's again just for these set of prompts and these set of models. 00:20:22.886 --> 00:20:24.618 but every business is different. 00:20:24.618 --> 00:20:31.888 So if you if you're looking to just basically optimize for one or two prompts and in your small business, then you can start small. 00:20:31.888 --> 00:20:37.684 And then if you wanna if you're a larger business with a bigger budget, you can go after uh much more competitive prompts. 00:20:37.684 --> 00:20:48.759 It doesn't have to be that it's only for big players because if that's the case, then the playing field is completely not level anymore. 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:49.380 Right. 00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:50.380 It's never been level. 00:20:50.380 --> 00:20:53.461 uh bigger brands always take the cake. 00:20:53.461 --> 00:21:01.278 Uh but but in terms of small businesses, what the competitive advantage you have is that you could go after some of the non competitive prompts. 00:21:01.278 --> 00:21:08.535 You know, if you wanna compete for what are the best CRM in the market, yeah, Salesforce and HopSpot, they're gonna kick your butt. 00:21:08.535 --> 00:21:14.721 but if you're going after, for example, hey, what are the best CRMs for home improvement businesses in the UK? 00:21:14.721 --> 00:21:21.627 then that's a much more manageable thing to optimize for because then there are not the sales force of the world that are competing for that. 00:21:21.627 --> 00:21:25.805 So you can definitely dominate that with a very small budget in a short period of time. 00:21:25.805 --> 00:21:33.034 Farzad, I think you've hit on something really, really important there, which is the segmentation. 00:21:33.034 --> 00:21:43.523 So that, as you say, your prompt can be as defined as possible for your ICP, even, I guess, down to geography and ICP and... 00:21:43.523 --> 00:21:48.490 suppose it's almost infinitely filterable, your prompt, right? 00:21:48.490 --> 00:21:51.853 Is that what we define as a prompt? 00:21:51.853 --> 00:22:02.303 Yeah, so it would be a question and the main thing we're optimizing for is the intent, not that specific prompt because no two persons are going to be typing the same exact query. 00:22:02.303 --> 00:22:05.007 So traditional search, you're optimizing for keywords. 00:22:05.007 --> 00:22:07.925 Uh with with uh LLMs you're optimizing for intent. 00:22:07.925 --> 00:22:21.643 So for example, if I'm optimizing for what are the best home improvement CRMs in the UK, now if somebody's asking an LLM, hey, you know, I run a window replacement company and I'm based out of the UK, what are the best CRMs I should use? 00:22:21.643 --> 00:22:23.195 it will be optimized for that as well. 00:22:23.195 --> 00:22:27.846 So essentially we are optimizing for intent, not specific prompts. 00:22:27.846 --> 00:22:35.017 but that would basically give us the guidance we need to go after the type of citations that will get you placed on those group of prompts. 00:22:35.017 --> 00:22:36.791 That's very interesting. 00:22:36.791 --> 00:22:42.694 And you also mentioned the need to optimize for different LLMs. 00:22:42.694 --> 00:23:04.926 Do you want to just also just explain that dimension to this because that potentially means you could have the same campaign, but I guess certainly you've got Gemini, Claude, GPT, Copilot, and then possibly Manus if you're going down that path and Grok. 00:23:04.926 --> 00:23:05.863 Right. 00:23:05.863 --> 00:23:06.758 So. 00:23:06.758 --> 00:23:07.337 Yeah, absolutely. 00:23:07.337 --> 00:23:11.839 I mean we usually recommend Google AI overviews, Claud and Chat GPT. 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:14.260 And they're usually the main ones we're gonna optimize for. 00:23:14.260 --> 00:23:23.446 But obviously when you do take a look at responses from like Perplexity, copilot, etc., they also uh usually follow similar patterns of citations. 00:23:23.446 --> 00:23:27.637 So they end up having very they work in very similar ways. 00:23:27.637 --> 00:23:34.773 But if you care about certain models, that usually ends up um determining the tracking and determining that North Storm metric. 00:23:34.773 --> 00:23:44.979 So if you care about showing up in Chat GPT and Claude and Google AI algorithyms which is

what most people use, usually uh that would also help your perplexity to go up as well. 00:23:44.979 --> 00:23:49.023 So it's it's they kinda help each other as kind of a tide that raises all. 00:23:49.023 --> 00:23:49.884 Okay, good. 00:23:49.884 --> 00:23:57.665 it's not as though you're having to spend on one platform and another one is a Greenfield campaign. 00:23:57.665 --> 00:24:00.787 Okay, that's fantastic. 00:24:00.787 --> 00:24:12.676 Because when you and I spoke a couple of years ago, you kindly gave me access to RISMO and my own admission was I couldn't really figure out how it worked. 00:24:12.676 --> 00:24:16.352 So the human, the loop. 00:24:16.352 --> 00:24:21.095 in this case, which is why now I'm still at zero, of course, on your metrics. 00:24:21.095 --> 00:24:30.603 What help do you actually give your clients to figure this out or not to figure it out just to get the result? 00:24:30.603 --> 00:24:31.336 Absolutely. 00:24:31.336 --> 00:24:32.817 We definitely struggle with that. 00:24:32.817 --> 00:24:43.076 We know when we had a uh do it yourself average software, you know, you said had to hire staff that knew what they were doing and you had to, you know, manage them and use it on a daily, and it's a lot of work. 00:24:43.076 --> 00:24:53.054 So what we did at Respona last year is that we developed this in AI and also with the network we built, we actually built this into a done for you productize service. 00:24:53.054 --> 00:24:56.537 So you can kind of kind consider it like a vending machine for brand mentions. 00:24:56.537 --> 00:25:00.569 So you can go in there and you're like, I want one listical mention on a publication of this quality tier. 00:25:00.569 --> 00:25:02.490 And we take care of the whole thing. 00:25:02.490 --> 00:25:06.673 So we filter out the publications, we go after them, we know what to say. 00:25:06.673 --> 00:25:08.635 We already have relationships with a ton of them. 00:25:08.635 --> 00:25:15.621 And also write the content that is optimized and get your brand placed from A to Z and it's done for you. 00:25:15.621 --> 00:25:27.500 And then it ends up being way cheaper than you trying to do an in-house because when you have to when you take into account your time, the publisher fees, and software tools you need, it ends up being significantly more expensive. 00:25:27.500 --> 00:25:33.385 Like one case study actually I like to highlight if you scroll all the way up at the top of the page is with Opus Clip. 00:25:33.385 --> 00:25:35.386 And so yeah. 00:25:35.386 --> 00:25:36.778 Absolutely. 00:25:36.778 --> 00:25:41.434 So so Opus goes on at Respona.com There are some case studies here. 00:25:41.434 --> 00:25:43.515 Do you want to talk about the Opus Glip one? 00:25:43.515 --> 00:25:45.573 Because that's a pretty impressive headline. 00:25:45.573 --> 00:25:47.885 Yeah, that's that's the newest one. 00:25:47.885 --> 00:25:56.794 So they came to us last year and they were they were they had some foundation level visibility, but they were nowhere near the top. 00:25:56.794 --> 00:26:03.336 So we help them now rank number one in their space when it comes to the group of uh prompts that are relevant to them. 00:26:03.336 --> 00:26:09.125 is AI video editing is a very competitive space too, right? 00:26:09.125 --> 00:26:10.516 Yes, yes, indeed. 00:26:10.516 --> 00:26:36.191 And then basically, what we helped them do is basically to analyze the citations for their target prompts, and then we created brand mentions for them on reputable publications that follow the patterns of those citations and then now they're ranked number one in their space and also added about a hundred thousand to the monthly visitors each month because these tradition these um Brand mentions there still do follow back links to help with your traditional SEO. 00:26:36.191 --> 00:26:38.483 So you're kinda hitting two birds in one stone. 00:26:38.483 --> 00:26:46.423 So not only you're increasing your brand visibility and AI answers, but you're also showing up in organic search as well as in Google other searches as well. 00:26:46.423 --> 00:26:49.361 You've got that's Opus clip. 00:26:49.361 --> 00:27:00.747 Then you've also got here some agencies using the product, I guess, to serve their clients and matchmaker, which we know of course is in the podcast space. 00:27:00.747 --> 00:27:05.409 They've got a 90 % uh reduction in the time it took to do outreach. 00:27:05.409 --> 00:27:07.000 So that's been a lot quicker, right? 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:22.516 And then also you've got a fitness network, Generation Iron, they've got a 100,000 monthly organic traffic increase in six months, which You know, for a local business is a significant uplift, isn't it Farzad? 00:27:22.516 --> 00:27:23.682 I had a thought. 00:27:23.682 --> 00:27:24.355 Yeah, absolutely. 00:27:24.355 --> 00:27:29.028 So they're they're a they're a global brand, so they're not a local business. 00:27:29.028 --> 00:27:34.384 Again, these numbers might look daunting for a small company and I might be listening. 00:27:34.384 --> 00:27:42.641 we have companies that are one person shows and they're happy to dominate, you know, they they're happy to get a few hundred visitors to their website a month. 00:27:42.641 --> 00:27:51.430 And we have global brands that spend over a million dollars a year with us, and agencies that you know sort of upsell what we do and then resell to their clients. 00:27:51.430 --> 00:27:55.234 So we have people from all walks alike that use the same system. 00:27:55.234 --> 00:27:57.237 Again, the fundamentals are the same. 00:27:57.237 --> 00:28:00.931 If you're a bigger brand, you're just going after more competitive prompts and keywords. 00:28:00.931 --> 00:28:05.246 And if you're a smaller brand, you're going after smaller, less competitive niches. 00:28:05.246 --> 00:28:15.384 How would a founder start this process? 00:28:15.384 --> 00:28:16.958 Yeah, absolutely. 00:28:16.958 -->

00:28:23.039 So usually a good starting point is to start with a small test order just to try out the system. 00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:27.402 So what my recommendation is always is to start with a small test order. 00:28:27.402 --> 00:28:30.323 Let us build a few listicles for you, kind of go through the process. 00:28:30.323 --> 00:28:37.066 It's gonna cost maybe a f few hundred dollars, but that will give you the confidence to know if that's the type of service you wanna utilize. 00:28:37.066 --> 00:28:45.435 And then if so, then we have you know, obviously AI visibility campaigns that you can run on recurring basis that basically helps to put together a more long term plan. 00:28:45.435 --> 00:28:55.079 But usually a good starting point is to go in there, submit a small test order, just let us build a couple of listicles for you so you get exactly what uh we are gonna give you. 00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:59.515 Okay, and we've talked really sort of more B2B. 00:28:59.515 --> 00:29:14.500 What about companies that are in the B2C space, that maybe don't have a website, but maybe have a product, you know, like uh my wife has teapots that she imports from China, but they're only on Shopify. 00:29:14.500 --> 00:29:21.624 So can you help with that kind of company as well? 00:29:21.624 --> 00:29:22.779 Yeah, absolutely. 00:29:22.779 --> 00:29:26.634 So when it comes to e commerce, I actually went through this last night. 00:29:26.634 --> 00:29:37.652 Like I've been playing tennis for a few years and I wanted to find a new pair of tennis shoes 'cause I've been happy with mine, but I've been looking for a new uh pair and I was like, Let me do some resource. 00:29:37.652 --> 00:29:42.946 So I just asked Claude, Hey, find me the best tennis shoe for my you know, for a male twenty eight year old. 00:29:42.946 --> 00:29:46.920 and and so it and it gave me an option and I actually put an order immediately. 00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:48.945 I didn't even do any more research. 00:29:48.945 --> 00:29:51.826 I just trusted it blindly and then place to order. 00:29:51.826 --> 00:30:01.770 So that's the type of uh product that obviously it uh again, if their customers are searching and asking, Hey, I want teapots, beautiful teapots, like where would I buy one? 00:30:01.770 --> 00:30:06.023 Um, then that would be something that could be beneficial to them. 00:30:06.023 --> 00:30:17.740 Obviously I'm pretty confident that's probably a little less competitive than tennis shoes so they it might not require as large of a budget as you know, probably Asics a Adidas has to spend in order to show up in those answers. 00:30:17.740 --> 00:30:18.280 okay. 00:30:18.280 --> 00:30:22.163 um So what's coming to me a couple of things. 00:30:22.163 --> 00:30:25.625 One is that this isn't really optional. 00:30:25.625 --> 00:30:31.892 Everyone has to think about this off site visibility, right? 00:30:31.892 --> 00:30:42.221 That the old days that you needed to make sure your own site was perfectly SEO'd with new articles and probably a nice logo and you worried about the fonts and so on. 00:30:42.221 --> 00:30:45.242 That that's not the place to be worried. 00:30:45.242 --> 00:30:46.116 anymore. 00:30:46.116 --> 00:31:08.709 right that we and that we then need to be generating quality content for someone else to be willing to house it right and with that content are you writing that with AI or are you writing that as humans or is that a mixture Yeah, everything we do is a make sure humans and AI. 00:31:08.709 --> 00:31:10.962 Uh AI is great at certain things. 00:31:10.962 --> 00:31:15.749 Uh it's not out of point yet to deliver the type of quality that we look for. 00:31:15.749 --> 00:31:21.171 Um so we definitely have uh humans at every step of the process that quality share everything. 00:31:21.171 --> 00:31:27.205 so uh yeah, so that's why uh we want to make sure that you know every customer is happy with all the deliverables. 00:31:27.205 --> 00:31:31.548 So we have a team built out to make sure everything is double checked. 00:31:31.548 --> 00:31:32.459 OK. 00:31:32.459 --> 00:31:34.862 And I'm assuming this is multilingual as well, right? 00:31:34.862 --> 00:31:38.344 The same principles apply regardless. 00:31:38.344 --> 00:31:41.787 What about video and images? 00:31:41.787 --> 00:31:52.275 Is off page search only text or is it also applying to your YouTube videos and other formats? 00:31:52.275 --> 00:31:52.854 Yeah, absolutely. 00:31:52.854 --> 00:31:57.208 YouTube videos definitely uh get cited by LLMs. 00:31:57.208 --> 00:32:00.333 Social links like Reddit also get listed. 00:32:00.333 --> 00:32:03.926 but usually they're a very small minority of uh mentions. 00:32:03.926 --> 00:32:07.759 The vast majority of them are gonna be those editorial pieces that I mentioned. 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:14.386 Um but that said, you know, it doesn't stop you from creating YouTube videos, doesn't stop you from engaging in social. 00:32:14.386 --> 00:32:26.530 So again, there's these are other marketing channels that help, but the vast majority of the work, I know it's kinda like eighty twenty, is gonna be mainly working on those external citations and and brand mentions. 00:32:26.530 --> 00:32:31.506 authority website to have like an editorial website? 00:32:31.506 --> 00:32:42.021 I'm just thinking about the unnoticedentrepreneur.com and I have 145 articles on there that I've painstakingly written uh over the last few years. 00:32:42.021 --> 00:32:58.913 Is the opportunity for people who are entrepreneurs to actually build out a website that's almost in parallel to their business website, which includes their own products and listicles that becomes a source of backlinks. 00:32:58.913 --> 00:33:02.057 Is that something that people are thinking about as a strategy? 00:33:02.057 --> 00:33:07.858 Usually having one more site is more trouble than it's worth because one citation is not gonna do anything. 00:33:07.858 --> 00:33:19.404 so

having us invest that much time and effort building out another website, um, you're better off just reaching out to other publications that So that's usually uh not something I would recommend. 00:33:19.404 --> 00:33:22.891 I would edit this question out of the podcast then. 00:33:22.891 --> 00:33:24.810 That was a dumb question. 00:33:24.810 --> 00:33:26.471 All right, it was just a thought. 00:33:26.471 --> 00:33:40.211 Okay, so far as I said, it sounds as though everyone has to think about this, that Respona has got a product, and I've seen it because I remember a couple of years ago, you were doing link builder. 00:33:40.211 --> 00:33:44.431 sounds like now you're doing brand authority and it's really moved on quite a bit. 00:33:44.431 --> 00:33:48.151 As an entrepreneur, just share with us. 00:33:48.151 --> 00:33:57.240 What's been a learning in the last couple of years uh with the changes that are coming in with AI? 00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:03.287 What's your experience and your advice to entrepreneurs that are grappling with what's happening? 00:34:03.287 --> 00:34:05.741 is completely getting revolutionized. 00:34:05.741 --> 00:34:10.543 And one thing that we've seen a lot of success with is product type service. 00:34:10.543 --> 00:34:18.275 Uh I think Sequoia just put out an article says the next trillion dollar company is a software company that's masquerading as a service firm. 00:34:18.275 --> 00:34:31.141 So essentially, um people want outcomes and nowadays with AI and and in our opinion, still humans are important as well, can deliver the outcome in a uh systematized and productized way. 00:34:31.141 --> 00:34:36.184 And that's a much better uniconomics for the business, a much better experience for the customer. 00:34:36.184 --> 00:34:46.067 So having a service, it's got outcomes that are well defined and clearly defined for the buyer. 00:34:46.067 --> 00:34:47.407 Okay, that's fine. 00:34:47.407 --> 00:34:48.148 And I can see that. 00:34:48.148 --> 00:34:50.070 And that's really what you've done with Respona, right? 00:34:50.070 --> 00:34:53.311 And you've managed to make it into a huge success. 00:34:53.311 --> 00:34:59.318 Farzad, yeah, I'm gonna ask you, what do you think's coming next with AI? 00:34:59.318 --> 00:35:02.989 You've talked about the productization, but what do you think is coming next? 00:35:02.989 --> 00:35:07.684 I think we're all gonna lose our jobs sooner or later with the way things are progressing. 00:35:07.684 --> 00:35:08.472 it's just not true. 00:35:08.472 --> 00:35:10.545 I I'm actually an AI optimist. 00:35:10.545 --> 00:35:20.389 I I think that um rate of GDP growth is going to explode, much like it did with the invention of the computer and um and and electricity. 00:35:20.389 --> 00:35:38.442 Uh so I think this is definitely one of those pivotal moments in history where we're gonna look back and and look fondly on because I think it's a development that is going to improve humans I would say well beings in terms of medicine, in terms of the economy, uh significantly like we've never seen before. 00:35:38.442 --> 00:35:42.094 So I I I'm very optimistic and I'm very excited for the future. 00:35:42.094 --> 00:35:44.275 but again, people disagree with me. 00:35:44.275 --> 00:35:46.728 Uh I guess nobody really knows what's gonna happen. 00:35:46.728 --> 00:35:47.728 So we have to wait and see. 00:35:47.728 --> 00:35:53.362 But uh my opinion, if you don't know what's gonna happen, better hope for the best and hang tight. 00:35:53.362 --> 00:35:57.297 Well, I think as you said, it's a sea change, right? 00:35:57.297 --> 00:36:17.472 In the same way that electricity or, you know, the internet or mobile phones and before that, even the printing press and tractors, you know, that came in, the mechanization of farms created huge dislocation, but then much greater yields in crops from the same amount of land. 00:36:17.472 --> 00:36:24.117 And some people no longer worked on the land, but then they worked in other economic areas that meant that the economies were able to grow. 00:36:24.117 --> 00:36:31.090 But it does require everyone to be flexible and to innovate, which is plainly what you and Respona have been doing. 00:36:31.090 --> 00:36:32.190 Yeah, absolutely. 00:36:32.190 --> 00:36:33.864 I appreciate the the kind words. 00:36:33.864 --> 00:36:36.869 We're doing our best, so fingers crossed, see what happens. 00:36:36.869 --> 00:36:38.373 we can see great results. 00:36:38.373 --> 00:36:42.262 Farzad if people want to contact you and connect with you, how can they do that? 00:36:42.262 --> 00:36:46.860 Uh, best way to contact us is via LinkedIn. 00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:50.402 So my name's Farzad Rashidi and there aren't a ton of us out there. 00:36:50.402 --> 00:36:53.976 So uh definitely a great way to get in touch with me there. 00:36:53.976 --> 00:37:00.753 And then also our website's Respona.com That's R E S P O N A, Respona dot com. 00:37:00.753 --> 00:37:03.715 If they want to learn more, they're welcome to visit there. 00:37:03.715 --> 00:37:05.251 Wonderful. 00:37:05.251 --> 00:37:12.815 You've shown me how poorly I'm doing on my own SEO, for which I'm grateful and obviously a little bit embarrassed. 00:37:12.815 --> 00:37:22.681 But I'm grateful for you coming on the show and really educating me and my friends here on how we can survive. 00:37:22.681 --> 00:37:32.226 Because the reason I thought it was so important to have this conversation is because a lot of smaller companies and bigger companies, if they are invisible to LLMs. 00:37:32.226 --> 00:37:34.606 the leads will dry up. 00:37:34.606 --> 00:37:45.414 and that source of new business has been really fundamentally important to so many companies, especially all those ones that are doing remote work. 00:37:45.414 --> 00:37:51.961 So that's why I really wanted to talk with you about how brand mentions are being affected by LLM. 00:37:51.961 --> 00:37:54.429 So thank you so much for coming on and sharing. 00:37:54.429 --> 00:37:55.349 It is my pleasure. 00:37:55.349 --> 00:37:56.737 Thank you for having me on, Jim. 00:37:56.737 --> 00:37:58.360 It's it's great to catch up. 00:37:58.360 --> 00:37:59.539 Yeah, it really is. 00:37:59.539 --> 00:38:11.960 So as always, I'll put all the details in the show notes and I'll include Farzad's contact details and just encourage you to have a think now about your own strategy. 00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:18.760 It's no longer enough to have a pretty website and to believe that you're going to be found. 00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:25.059 As we said at the beginning, over 90 % of businesses are potentially invisible. 00:38:25.059 --> 00:38:34.731 The upside of that is if you're in the 10%, you have the possibility to get the other 90 % business. 00:38:34.731 --> 00:38:40.670 So as with all of these things, as we said in China, every crisis is also an opportunity. 00:38:40.670 --> 00:38:45.451 Thank you for listening to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur with me, your host Jim James. 00:38:45.451 --> 00:38:47.842 Until we meet again, encourage you to keep on communicating.