Pełna transkrypcja odcinka Reading Solzhenitsyn's '200 Years Together' w/ Dr Matthew Raphael Johnson - Part 94

true. Now I know 72 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:07.000 that there was some attempt to you know, get rid 73 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:08.879 of a lot of them, put them out of order. 74 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:11.399 I don't know if there were many destroyed, just so 75 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:17.000 it couldn't keep going. But by the mid nineties this 76 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:19.680 stuff had been now published and well not even in 77 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:25.720 English in certain places, and it just you know, those 78 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:29.240 those documents show that everything that people like us, you know, 79 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:35.600 are forbearers, were saying decades ago was absolutely true about 80 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:36.360 the US song. 81 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:44.279 A few Jewish a few Jewish planetpotentiaries are listed here. 82 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:51.120 In Belarussia Israel Laplevsky, brother of the Deputy General Prosecutor 83 00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:55.240 Gregory Laplevsky. We already saw him in the Cheka. Later 84 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:58.279 he worked in a senior post in the GPU as 85 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:01.560 a Commissar of State Security of second rank, and now 86 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:03.920 we see him as the Narkhama of Internal Affairs of 87 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:09.480 Belarussi Russia from nineteen thirty four to nineteen thirty six 88 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:13.560 in the Western Oblast I am Blat. He later worked 89 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:18.720 in chel Lyabinsk in the Ukraine Zi katz Nelson. We 90 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.439 saw him in the Civil War all around the country, 91 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:24.560 from the Caspian Sea to the White Sea. Now he 92 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:27.360 was a deputy head of the Gulag. Later we see 93 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:30.079 him as deputy in Arkama of Internal Affairs of Ukraine. 94 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:34.160 In nineteen thirty seven he was replaced by Laplevsky. We 95 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:40.040 see Dm. Sokolinsky first in Donet's Oblast and later in 96 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:47.120 Venetza Oblast, l Ya Fayvilovich and Fridberg in the northern caucases. 97 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:51.600 Yeah, we could. I don't want you to suffer anymore. 98 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:56.879 This is a list, you know, working for yeah, and 99 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:02.199 every republic and so that that that's seven what did 100 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:05.199 he say, seven point three percent figure. It's a little 101 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:09.319 misleading since at the mid and local levels they were 102 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:13.160 absolutely dominant, and remember they also control the Gulag and 103 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:18.199 they controlled the police apparatus at the at the federal 104 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:20.879 or what we would call the federal level, or the 105 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:24.000 all union level as they would call it. So he 106 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:26.800 is this just shows that, you know, he's he's refuting 107 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:30.240 the notion that Stalin had any purge of Jews as Jews. 108 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:37.519 It's not a nonsense. Jews were everywhere, maybe not to 109 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:40.160 the extent as they were in you know, in the twenties, 110 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.160 because you know, some of them just made good revolutionaries, 111 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:49.319 but not good workers. You know, I said it before, 112 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:53.279 but building a modern estate, you know, that's able to 113 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:55.480 support revolutions in other parts of the of the world. 114 00:07:56.360 --> 00:08:00.399 You know, your typical revolutionary nut job isn't isn't very 115 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:06.079 isn't very useful. But that figure can be misleading. At 116 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:08.759 seven point three whatever it was, what do you say, 117 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:12.800 seven point four percent of the total. You know, that's 118 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:19.879 misleading because they are they are in key positions, they're 119 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:22.680 in dominating of their undominant positions, not just at the 120 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:27.600 top level, but at the mid level as well. And 121 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.839 and you know, really only need to be honest, a 122 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:34.360 handful of Jews and any any group and they're going 123 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:39.279 to run it, especially since criticizing them was illegal, so 124 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:44.720 Russians and Georgians and others needed to come in and 125 00:08:44.720 --> 00:08:48.720 and staff the bureaucracy, and of course, you know, be 126 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:52.399 drafted into the army. But it didn't make it any 127 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:53.919 less of a judaic movement. 128 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:58.240 All these high placed MKVD officials were tossed from one 129 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:00.879 oblast to another and exactly the same manner as the 130 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:07.080 secretaries of obcoms. Take for instance, Vladimir Sasserski was planetpotentiary 131 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:10.679 of the GPU NKVD and Odessa Kievan in the Far East. 132 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:13.240 By nineteen thirty seven he had risen to the head 133 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:16.279 of the Special Section of the Main Directorate of State 134 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:20.360 Security of the NKVD. Just before Shapiro or look at 135 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:24.120 Smirnov Coral. In nineteen thirty three thirty six he was 136 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:31.480 head of the depropetskrof. Sorry about that, GPU NKVD. In 137 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:33.679 nineteen thirty seven he was in charge of the Western 138 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:37.840 Siberia NKVD. He also served in the central apparatus of 139 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:41.720 the GPU NKVD. In the mid nineteen thirties we see 140 00:09:41.720

--> 00:09:44.600 el Vool as the head of Moscow and later of 141 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:50.200 Saratov Police. The planet potentiary in Moscowl was el Belski, 142 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:53.840 after serving in Central Asia. Later he had risen to 143 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:57.200 the head of the Internal Services Troop of the NKVD. 144 00:09:57.320 --> 00:09:59.879 In the nineteen thirties we see many others. Fauscham was 145 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:02.320 in charge of the Border troops. Meersen was the head 146 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:05.320 of the economic planning section of the nkv D. L. I. 147 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:10.399 Bearnson and later LM. Abramson headed the finance department of 148 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:16.919 the Gulag and Abram Flixer headed the personal personnel section 149 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:20.639 of the Gulog. All these are disconnected pieces of information, 150 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:25.840 not ameniable to methodical anal methodical. I don't think that's 151 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:26.720 supposed to say anal. 152 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:29.120 Moreover, I think that's the misprint. 153 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:29.559 Yeah. 154 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:34.039 Yeah, there were special sections in each provisional office of 155 00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:37.480 the nkv D. Here's another isolated a bit of information. 156 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:41.279 Yakhov Braverman was the head of the Secretariat of the 157 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:44.679 Special Section of the nkv in Kiev. He later worked 158 00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:48.480 in the same capacity in the central NKVD apparatus. 159 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:52.480 You know, if we had read the previous paragraph, where 160 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:58.279 there's this laundry list of Jews, not just in Russia, 161 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:01.759 but in all of the provinces, in all the republics, 162 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:07.000 in dominant positions, you have to come to the conclusion 163 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:11.879 that Jews were not persecuted in this era. They were 164 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:16.080 thriving in this era. It was Russians and it was 165 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:19.559 Ukrainians who were not who were suffering. Because this is 166 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:22.679 a period of starvation. This is a period of the 167 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:26.120 continued destruction of the church, which is very core of 168 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:33.360 orthodox of Russian culture. And you know, bringing it up 169 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:38.240 it's a problem, you know, and it is considered a pogram, 170 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:41.519 as we've mentioned before, just to even bring it up, 171 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:44.039 just to if you're in argument with somebody over something 172 00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:45.639 and you say, well, it's because you're a Jews. You 173 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.240 believe this kind of thing. You're going to stick with 174 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:51.720 your other Jews that

you're off, you're done, even though 175 00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:56.639 it's completely true. Truth is never a defense in these things. 176 00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:02.000 So you know that people had to bite their tongue. 177 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:06.559 But I think at this stage Stalin had just kind 178 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:09.240 of a political bureaucrats. I mean, yeah, they all gave 179 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:12.799 lip service to the USSR, but they had to. They 180 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:15.960 had to be professionals in order to run, you know, 181 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.600 a Department of Defense or anything else. But I started 182 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:20.919 laughing when I saw the finance department of the Google HUC. 183 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:26.480 For some reason, it doesn't seem to go together and 184 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:28.399 h And also I should note, and I've said it 185 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:33.120 before too, that moving them around has a lot to 186 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:36.679 do with making sure that they don't get any roots 187 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:41.759 in one particular place, because then killing them or removing, 188 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:45.240 you know, expelling them, or doing something equally awful to them, 189 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:48.399 it's going to be more difficult. They always have to 190 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:51.320 be strangers to you, even though even though they're you know, 191 00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:55.279 they're going in or whatever, you can't develop any So 192 00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:57.679 that's why they're moved around so much. A lot of 193 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:03.440 secret police services do the exact same thing. So regardless 194 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:07.879 of the official numbers, we're seeing Jews in dominant positions 195 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:13.600 in pretty much everything with Russians, and you're writing than 196 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:19.080 bureaucracy and be a bolt in some Germans under underneath 197 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:22.639 them doing all the doing all the work. They're not 198 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:24.480 the ones getting their hands dirty most of the time. 199 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:30.000 So the n k v D had its own economic 200 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:33.200 planning section, you know, and but if, but if you're 201 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:38.200 going to have a purely planned economy, every aspect of 202 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:42.080 your existence has to be under state control, under state 203 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:47.360 observation and surveillance. There's no other way to do it. 204 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:51.000 That's why it doesn't matter where socialism is going to 205 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:55.840 take take place, the US, Canada, wherever and purely social 206 00:13:55.879 --> 00:13:59.320 coment takes over. They're gonna have to do that without 207 00:13:59.320 --> 00:13:59.639 the market. 208 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:00.399 What do you to do. 209 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:08.759 So, and that's what that's what you get. You know, 210 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.320 that's that's the main that's the main point here. But 211 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:14.840 that's why they get moved around. And but you notice 212 00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:18.559 though that, you know, a few weeks ago we saw 213 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.639 how Jews were just pushed around. They were getting any job. 214 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:25.039 One was in the navy. Then he became secretary of 215 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:28.080 you know, part of the agricultural department. Then he became 216 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.759 a head of propaganda. You know, that was just it 217 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:35.000 was ridiculous to hear it. They couldn't. Now you start, 218 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:39.080 you're starting to see more specialized, specialized expertise because even 219 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:43.960 though they're they're being moved around and they have different 220 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:48.039 job titles in different places, they seemed to be focused 221 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:51.519 on one thing. And that's that's that's a very and 222 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:57.960 that that's a Stalinist development. And more people were killed 223 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:02.720 by the Stalinist system, not because it was worse than 224 00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:07.559 Lennus one, but he had this bureaucracy built with a 225 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:10.799 lot of American money that he could use, that he 226 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:15.440 had at his disposal. You had rebellions all the time, 227 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:21.240 especially over a religious stuff. But as a bureaucracy became 228 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:25.679 more professional, more and more people were going to be murdered. 229 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:32.879 Later, in nineteen forty, when the Soviets occupied the Baltic 230 00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:35.879 states of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, the head of the 231 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:40.240 vincek NKVD was one Kaplan. He dealt so harshly with 232 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:42.919 the people there that in nineteen forty one, when the 233 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.039 Red Army had hardly left and before the arrival of Germans, 234 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:50.519 there was an explosion of public outrage against the Jews. 235 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:55.720 In the novel by D. P. Vitkovsky Half Life, there 236 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:59.799 was a phrase about the Jewish looks of investigator Yakovlev. 237 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:05.519 The action is set during Khrushchev's regime. Vitovsky put it 238 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:07.879 rather harshly, so that Jews, who by the end of 239 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:10.360 the nineteen sixties were already on the way of breaking 240 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:14.159 away from communism and in their new political orientation, developed 241 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.919 sympathy to any camp memoirs, were

nonetheless repulsed by such 242 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:23.080 a description. I remember v GERSHUNI asked me how many 243 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:27.279 other Jewish investigators did Vitovsky come across during his thirty 244 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:28.679 year long ordeal. 245 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:33.039 And you know, it really depends not just on the 246 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:36.960 ideology but on the personality. They were always pretty harsh 247 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:41.559 wherever they were. But you know, in some places it 248 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:47.320 was particularly nasty. And yet in history textbooks today they 249 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:51.440 will be condemned for welcoming to Germans. The normal population 250 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:58.399 welcoming the Germans in most of Russia did, most of 251 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:02.279 Russia did. It's unfortunate that the s s later on 252 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:09.279 messed that up, especially in Ukraine. But at least initially, 253 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:16.480 the infantry, uh, you know, regular army was just and 254 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:19.319 and you know they were they were giving information on 255 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:22.119 you know, the partisans. They're given information on, you know, 256 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:28.440 certain parts of the topography and everything else, and they 257 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:33.039 assisted that the German cause tremendously. So uh. This is 258 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:36.440 part of the reason why Stalin had the policy that 259 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:39.319 even if you had been a pow like Sulton EtuM 260 00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:44.720 was a German pow, you still were tainted. It could 261 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:49.640 really never be a part of society, you know, because 262 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:54.240 he was well aware of how hated his His movement 263 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:56.680 was may have been subconscious, you know, he thinks that 264 00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:58.880 he is the end of all history. He wasn't a 265 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:01.319 bad writer. People think of him as just a thug 266 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:04.480 and ignoramus. He was about the same as Lenin in 267 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:08.359 that in that department, his works were available online for 268 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:12.519 free in English any other language. I don't think Lenin 269 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:19.440 was bunch of a philosophy either. But but uh Stalin 270 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:23.240 took Lenin and Trotsky and then was able to amplify 271 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:27.279 everything through these Jews that they were unable to do 272 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.720 because they, you know, it was a new revolutionary government 273 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:35.480 that was dealing with practically civil war conditions. Now, while 274 00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:38.680 you still have rebellions all over the place, they weren't 275 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:42.640 nearly as large as they were in the twenties, and 276 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:46.359 but they existed. I don't want to downplay it. They're 277 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:49.240 very very strict gun laws. There were no gun laws 278 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.359 in Zarus, Russia whatsoever. You could you could do whatever 279 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:57.480 you wanted, uh, and I don't I guarantee you they 280 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:01.440 were not enforced against uh Jews in this period of time. 281 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.759 But that's you know, the point of this is, you know, 282 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:08.319 is it's to lay out a reason why they were 283 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:13.000 hated and why they were well there were Jews were hated, 284 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:17.160 and why the Germans were such a relief. Finally you 285 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:21.960 had some rational economic organization. You know, they kind of 286 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.200 just went in the attitude was, let's do the opposite 287 00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:29.319 of a Stalin did. If you go to my archives. 288 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:32.880 Really just really just a few months ago, and I've 289 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:37.039 done it before, but I've developed newer ideas. On the 290 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:43.599 little Court and in the forest of eastern Belarus. It 291 00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:48.920 was a fairly small National Socialist community and it did 292 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:56.240 extremely well. And look Court, it's had its own flag, 293 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:00.400 you know, had its own security services. And I strongly 294 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:03.200 recommend anyone you know that that was kind of almost 295 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:08.640 an experimental n S community that it was only made 296 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:13.839 possible by the German advance. But it wasn't too long before, 297 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:16.319 you know, so, I mean the Germans didn't have a 298 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:18.720 chance anyway, and they were well aware of it. Hitler 299 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:21.359 was well aware of it. They didn't have a chance. 300 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:23.680 The only reason they were able to continue this invasion 301 00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:26.359 is that they took all of the massive of supplies 302 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:33.720 that were at the western border of the USSR. The 303 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:36.240 German army was not ready for this kind of a thing. 304 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:40.559 The German Air Force certainly was not ready for this 305 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:42.079 kind of thing. They didn't have the armor for it. 306 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:44.720 The armor was very weak. It was not a blitzkreek 307 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.839 by any means. You had about two hundred and fifty 308 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.279 thousand horses that were used in bringing kind of a 309 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:56.400 blitz creek could be done that way. So so, but 310

00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.680 this is you know, this is why you know he 311 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:02.799 was done. He was a preempt invasion, was a suicidal mission. 312 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:08.480 But when he was victorious in the beginning, he was. 313 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:12.880 The Germans absolutely were loved by everyone. The man have 314 00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:18.680 had different reasons. But it's important to realize why. 315 00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:24.920 What an astonishing forgetfulness betrayed by that rather innocent slip. 316 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:28.039 Would not it have been more appropriate to mention not 317 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:32.240 the thirty years, but fifty years, or at least forty years. Indeed, 318 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:35.799 Vitovsky might not have encountered many Jewish investigators during his 319 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:38.559 last thirty years from the end of the nineteen thirties, 320 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.559 though they could still be found around even in the 321 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:46.880 nineteen sixties. Yet Vitovsky was persecuted by the Organs for 322 00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:50.640 forty years. He survived the Solofki camp, and he apparently 323 00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:53.920 did not forget the time when a Russian investigator was 324 00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:59.839 a less frequent site than a Jewish or a Latvian one. Nevertheless, 325 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:05.079 Ushini Garshuni was right and implying that all these outstanding 326 00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:07.759 and not so outstanding posts were fraught with death for 327 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:10.839 their occupants. The more so the closer it was to 328 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:12.960 nineteen thirty seven to nineteen thirty eight. 329 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:15.319 Yeah, the thing to keep in mind is that they 330 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:20.519 weren't perge for being Jews. Now, Sultanitan did say something 331 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:24.079 earlier and a few paragraphs ago that I'm writing on 332 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:27.160 right now that needs to be taken more seriously is 333 00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:31.839 that the Jews eventually pulled away from the Soviet Union 334 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:36.160 roughly in the late sixties early seventies, because you know, 335 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:39.119 Israel and the success of the Western world and stuff 336 00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:44.079 like that. You know, the capital was growing old, the 337 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:50.720 prophets weren't there anymore. Then you may have had some 338 00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:55.839 some actual anti jewishness coming out in the Party. Russian 339 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:59.319 nationalist groups looked to the believe it or not, in 340 00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:02.960 the in the eighties, Russian nationalist groups often were you know, 341 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.680 they looked to the Party for assistance. And when you 342 00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:16.000 read some of their about official documents here you have 343 00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:19.279 a nationalist point of view. They may have a picture 344 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:22.119 of Lenin on the top of it that scares people. 345 00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:25.880 They should not be frightening. Otherwise, it's purely at nationalist 346 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:30.559 urragement orthodox stuff, and it's only because the Jews had 347 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:34.319 pulled away, not because they were persecuted, but they wanted 348 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:35.799 to go to Israel. When to go to the US, 349 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:38.720 because we all know that the real promised land for 350 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:40.680 them is New York City. 351 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.759 Our arbiters confidently ruled from their heights, and when they 352 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:47.880 were suddenly delivered a blow, it must have seemed to 353 00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:50.240 them like the collapse of the universe, like the end 354 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:53.319 of the world. Wasn't there anyone among them before the 355 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:59.400 onslaught who reflected on the usual fate of revolutionaries. Among 356 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:02.599 the major communist functionaries who perished in nineteen thirty seven 357 00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:05.480 to thirty eight, the Jews can pry an enormous percentage. 358 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:08.839 For example, a modern historian writes that if from the 359 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:12.079 first January nineteen thirty five to the first January nineteen 360 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.160 thirty eight, the members of this nationality headed more than 361 00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:18.079 fifty percent of the main structural units of the Central 362 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.400 apparatus of the People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs, then by 363 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:26.119 January first, nineteen thirty nine, they headed only six percent. 364 00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:30.839 Yeah, you certain to note that, Oh, yeah, go ahead, 365 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:31.839 go aheadlet's do the next. 366 00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:32.799 One, okay. 367 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:38.039 Using numerous execution lists that were published over the recent 368 00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:42.279 decades and the biographical tomes of the modern Russian Jewish encyclopedia. 369 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:45.200 We were able to trace to some degree the fates 370 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:51.599 of those outstanding and powerful checkists read commanders, Soviet Party officials, diplomats, 371 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:54.440 and others whom we mentioned in the previous chapters of 372 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:55.039 this book. 373 00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:59.720 Yeah, it's I want to reiterate here, and Stalin really 374 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.000 had to choice in the matter. Salom was a revolutionary, 375 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:06.640 he was a bank robber, you know. But there's a 376 00:25:06.680 -->

00:25:12.119 big difference between carrying out a revolution. We mentioned with 377 00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:18.279 reflects on the fate of revolutionaries. Well, it starts to 378 00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:22.920 eat itself a revolution, A true revolution usually ends in 379 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.759 civil war. This was a controlled war, but it still was, 380 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:32.480 you know, their own destruction, same thing in France. You know, revolution, 381 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:35.319 of course is totalitarian, therefore it's left us by definition. 382 00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:42.720 But there was a great grief arbitrary in us in 383 00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:47.920 the system. And whether this benefited Jews or not, you know, 384 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:54.000 Jews still remained very powerful. But the Jews that were 385 00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:57.799 removed were not removed because they were Jews. It was 386 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:03.440 because they were often very wild revolutionaries. They didn't know 387 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.480 how to build a state, They didn't understand how bureaucracy worked. 388 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:09.599 But they had to be one if they were going 389 00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:12.039 to be a A the killing machine that they saw 390 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:14.680 on envisions. 391 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:21.720 All right, I am there. I've come to a paragraph 392 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:24.160 that is just a list of names. I'm not going 393 00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:27.240 to read every name here. I will read the head, 394 00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:30.359 I won't read the title. Here. Among the checkists, the 395 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:35.160 destruction was particularly overwhelming. The name of those executed are italicized. 396 00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:39.519 There's about thirty names here. You can see Shapiro's there, 397 00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:43.119 and the last name they mentioned is and is you 398 00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:46.519 GOODA so I will move on. 399 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.640 Yes, yes, thank god. I don't want to hurt you 400 00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:51.160 in any way. 401 00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.880 Nowadays, entire directories containing lists of the highest officials of 402 00:26:56.920 --> 00:26:59.000 the Central Apparatus of the main Director or of the 403 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.200 State Security the KVD who fell during the Edghoff's period 404 00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:10.000 of executions and repressions are published. There were there we 405 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:15.359 see many more Jewish names, but only accidentally. Thanks to 406 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.359 the still unbridled glassnos that began in the beginning of 407 00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:22.119 the nineteen nineties, we learned about several mysterious biographies formerly 408 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:26.559 shottered in secrecy. For example, from nineteen thirty seven, Professor 409 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:32.640 Grigory Mironofsky, a

specialist in poisons, headed the Laboratory X, 410 00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:37.079 in the special section of Operations Technology the NKVD, which 411 00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:40.920 carried out death sentences to injections with poison by the 412 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.640 direct decision of the government in nineteen thirty seven through 413 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.640 forty seven and in nineteen fifty the executions were performed 414 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:52.079 in a special prisoner cell at Laboratory X, as well 415 00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:55.160 as abroad. Even in the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies, 416 00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:00.599 Myronofsky was arrested. Only in nineteen fifty one his cell 417 00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:04.079 he wrote to Berya quote, dozens of sworn enemies of 418 00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:07.279 the Soviet Union, including all kinds of nationalists, were destroyed 419 00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:11.359 by my hand end quote. And from the astonishing disclosure 420 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:14.039 of nineteen ninety we learned that the famous mobile gas 421 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:17.960 chambers were invented, as it turns out, not by Hitler 422 00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:20.920 during the during World War Two, but in the Soviet 423 00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:25.319 NKVD in nineteen thirty seven by Isay davidovich Berg, the 424 00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:28.519 head of the administrative and maintenance section of the NKVD 425 00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:32.359 of Moscow Oblast. Sure he was not alone in that enterprise, 426 00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:36.559 but he organized the whole business. This is why it 427 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:39.640 is also important to know who occupied middle level posts. 428 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:43.039 It turns out that id Berg was entrusted with carrying 429 00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:46.279 out the sentences of the Troika of the NKVD of 430 00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:51.160 Moscow Oblast. He dutifully performed his mission, which involved shuttling 431 00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:54.880 prisoners to the execution place. But when three Troikas began 432 00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:58.799 to work simultaneously in the Moscow Oblast, the executioners became 433 00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:02.160 unable to cope with the sho number of executions. Then 434 00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:07.720 they invented a time saving method. The victims were stripped, naked, tied, mouths, plugged, 435 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:10.759 and thrown into a closed truck outwardly disguised as a 436 00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:14.680 bread truck on the road. The exhaustiums were redirected into 437 00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:17.720 the prisoner carrying compartment, and by the time the van 438 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:21.480 arrived in the burial ditch to prisoners were ready quote 439 00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:25.599 unquote ready well Berg himself was shot in nineteen thirty nine, 440 00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:28.160 not for those evil deeds, of course, but for the 441 00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:32.559 anti Soviet conspiracy. In nineteen fifty six, he was rehabilitated 442 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:35.480 without any problem, though the story of his murderous invention 443 00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:38.160 was kept preserved and protected in the records of his 444 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:41.440 case and only recently discovered by journalists. 445 00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:45.559 Yeah, I think you know what Schultensia was getting at there. 446 00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:51.880 He just gave one small example, and no one bothered 447 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:57.200 to notice that the Germans were using diesel, which is 448 00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:03.200 not necessarily poisonous the exhaust the Russians were using, the 449 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:10.240 Soviets were using gas gas engines. That that whole phenomenon 450 00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:14.559 after the war was a lot of projection. The Soviets 451 00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:18.119 projected a lot of their evil onto whatever enemy they 452 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:24.240 you know, Germans or even the Italians in the Spanish 453 00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:27.039 and I love this notion of the I've I've read 454 00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:32.799 bread trucks, meat trucks. So when they're bringing foreign dignitaries 455 00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:38.160 around these trucks, mobile murder vehicles, say, you know, meat deliveries. 456 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.000 Oh they're doing so well, you know, it's it's only 457 00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:44.680 only these people can think of that. But none of 458 00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:48.039 them were executed because they were too evil. That was 459 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:51.200 not the issue. They weren't executed because they were Jews either. 460 00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:56.039 You know, we've been over this before, and there was 461 00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:59.200 a lot of chaos for some of this prior to 462 00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:03.559 the war. But after the war, with American assistance, we'll 463 00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:08.640 be reading this soon, the Jews again rose to great prominence. 464 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:14.119 It was a new generation now so you know, it's 465 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:18.519 it's not it's not it's it's not the same the 466 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.039 same level of as someone like Trotsky. These people were 467 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:30.319 getting older and but yeah, that the bread truck thing. Uh, 468 00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:33.359 and then that then the projecting that onto the Germans 469 00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:36.839 is you know, there is a place for psychology here, 470 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:40.079 the concept of defense mechanisms. I mean, I use projection 471 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:44.160 all the time in American foreign policy. You know, whatever 472 00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.599 they whatever the US is going through, they projected onto 473 00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:55.000 another country that's not you know, and that's the only 474 00:31:55.039

--> 00:31:57.079 way I think most of the you know, American foreign 475 00:31:57.079 --> 00:32:00.640 policy bureaucunts could deal with it. Those who aren't already sociopaths. 476 00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:06.200 A big problem psychologically is you know, how many of 477 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.519 these party members were not sociopaths and then had to 478 00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:12.960 somehow deal with this. That was a big issue. We'll 479 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:13.799 get to that a bit later. 480 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:18.559 There are so many individuals with outstanding lives and careers 481 00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:21.960 in the list above. Bela Kun, the butcher of Crimea, 482 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:25.279 himself fell at that time, and with him the lives 483 00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:30.960 of twelve commissars of the Communist government a Budapest ended. However, 484 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.599 it would be inappropriate to consider the expulsion of Jews 485 00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:36.759 from the punitive organs as a form of persecution. There 486 00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:42.200 was no anti Jewish motif in those events. Notwithstanding that 487 00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:46.319 if Stalin's praetorians valued not only their present benefits and power, 488 00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:49.680 but also the opinion of the people whom they governed governed, 489 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:52.720 they should have left the NKVD and not have waited 490 00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:55.640 until they were kicked out. This wouldn't have spared many 491 00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:58.400 of them death, but surely it would have spared them 492 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.880 the stigma. The notion of purposeful anti Jewish purge doesn't 493 00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:06.640 hold water quote According to available data, at the end 494 00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:08.599 of the nineteen thirties, the Jews were one of the 495 00:33:08.599 --> 00:33:12.319 few national minorities belonging to which did not constitute a 496 00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:16.839 crime for an NKVD official. There were still no regulations 497 00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:19.960 on national and personal policy and the state security agencies 498 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.880 that were enforced from the end of the nineteen forties 499 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:24.880 to the early nineteen fifties. 500 00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:28.839 Yeah, you know, they were the only group. You know. 501 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:37.119 Stalin enforced the anti Semitism laws as much as Lenin did. 502 00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.400 He gave interviews, he spoke on this topic. He wrote 503 00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:44.720 on this topic, anti Semites and Russian nationalists were a 504 00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:50.480 great evil that old myth about him being a nationalist 505 00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:58.359 or even orthodox. It's really hard to dislodge the union 506 00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:03.240 of the Russian people by Nozadav who I've worked with before, 507 00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:07.440 has done a great job in Russian trying to trying 508 00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:12.840 to get rid of that. But but you know, even 509 00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:17.039 even today, you go to one of one of the 510 00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:19.000 one of the parties that got kicked out of Ukraine, 511 00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:22.079 it's someone one party state in Ukraine. Today I came, 512 00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:25.679 I'm talking about this again. There are four parties make 513 00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:27.880 it look like the multiparties, but they're all exactly the same. 514 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:32.199 Their agenda is exactly the same, mostly in English on 515 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:39.159 their website. I lost my train of thought. What was 516 00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:39.760 I talking about? 517 00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:44.400 You're talking about Ukraine and parties and oh. 518 00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:47.599 Yeah, and some of the so called socialist parties, the 519 00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:51.440 Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine. One of my favorites. I 520 00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:54.440 cited from them all the time. Her name was an 521 00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:59.079 Italia something. And you know, the Communists tended to be 522 00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:04.440 more Urasianists than anything else. And they talk about the 523 00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:10.880 important place of Orthodoxy and in national life. You know, 524 00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:14.320 they get a little iffy about Nicholas a second, but 525 00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.039 but otherwise, you know, I use them quite a bit 526 00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:21.079 to the you know, to to understand especially Ukrainian affairs, 527 00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:29.039 but elsewhere too. That's why the left right distinctions in 528 00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:35.199 Soviet Ukrainian or Soviet Russian Ukrainian politics, uh sometimes fail. 529 00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:38.760 They call themselves progressive socials. What the help does that mean? 530 00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:43.199 And yet I'm reading there years ago, I'm reading their 531 00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:46.280 agenda and I'm like, god, I agree with almost every 532 00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:53.119 every word of it, and so and people they still 533 00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:54.639 will use a picture of Lenin at the top of 534 00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:57.480 their website so they don't want to read it. No, no, 535 00:35:57.639 --> 00:36:01.320 there's nothing wrong, and it throws people off. I've been 536 00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:03.840 dealing with that for a very long time too. And 537 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:05.760 I don't know if you know this, but I was 538 00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:12.679 the first to translate the Decoration of Independence and the 539 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:18.920 first Constitution of the Eastern Republics of Ukraine into English 540 00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:24.000 when it first happened in early, very early twenty fourteen, 541

00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:28.000 and I was criticized for supporting them all over the place, 542 00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:33.119 all over the place. He's just communists. Well, yeah, I 543 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:37.760 know the symbolism is which you have to understand. It 544 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:41.800 makes a certain amount of sense. But just read the 545 00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:45.880 material and for the most part, you know ninety percent 546 00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:50.280 of it is something that we would say. And I 547 00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.760 always I always admired the so called Progressive Socialist Party 548 00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:57.199 of Ukraine. I used I excited for them, I used them, 549 00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:59.880 I did my research. Yeah, had so many historical works 550 00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:05.159 on there. And uh, the so called right wing as 551 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:11.159 the media called it, were liberals, neoliberals connected with the US. 552 00:37:11.559 --> 00:37:13.280 So then that's part of the reason, one of the 553 00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:15.280 reasons that and in the Communist Party of Ukraine was 554 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:17.480 a little bit harsher, a little bit different in that respect. 555 00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:22.719 There was some Trotskyite and whatever, uh they were all 556 00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:26.880 they were all kicked out for various reasons, leaving only 557 00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:33.559 the four with that one single ideology. But but it's 558 00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:38.320 important to bring this out, and we're talking about, you know, uh, 559 00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:41.840 the ideology of of of this era and what happens 560 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:45.920 later on. But I'm not sure what he means here 561 00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:48.920 by belonging to which did not constitute a crime for 562 00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:57.880 an a for any n k v D official, you know, 563 00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.320 I don't. I don't fully understand what he's talking about there. 564 00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:06.280 But regardless, Yeah, the notion of a purposeful anti Jewish 565 00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:09.119 purge doesn't hold water. It didn't happen it wasn't seen 566 00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:18.639 that way. They were Philo Semitic, Fino Jewish all the way, 567 00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:21.039 and no one was no And remember just because they 568 00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:23.719 were pursed did mean they were killed. Some of them 569 00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:26.559 were shot, some of them were just forcible, forcible retirement. 570 00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:30.519 So that goes especially for the military. So you know, 571 00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:33.000 it's a complex era, and there was a lot of 572 00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:38.039 As I've said, there's a lot of complexity and chaos 573 00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:42.440 at the period because everyone's getting kicked out and that's 574 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.079 never good for the health

of the society. But everything 575 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:46.719 changed then, of course, in nineteen forty one. 576 00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.400 Many party activists fell into the destructive wave of nineteen 577 00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.159 thirty seven in nineteen thirty eight. From thirty six to 578 00:38:55.239 --> 00:38:58.599 thirty seven, the composition of the Soviet of People's Commissars 579 00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:01.519 began to change noticeably as the purges during the pre 580 00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:05.559 war years ran through the prominent figures in the People's Kommissariates. 581 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:11.079 The main personage behind collectivization, Yakovlev, had met his bullet. 582 00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:16.199 The same happened to his comrade in arms Kalmanovich and 583 00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:20.480 Rukimovich and many others. The meat grinder devoured many old 584 00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:25.840 honored Bolsheviks, such as the long retirede Ryazanov and the 585 00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:30.519 organizer for the murder of the Tsar Golshenk Golshaikan, not 586 00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:35.960 to mention Kamenev and Zenovyev. Lazark I Ganovich was spared, 587 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:39.280 although he himself was the iron broom in several purges 588 00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:42.320 during nineteen thirty seven to nineteen thirty eight. For example, 589 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:44.960 they called his swift purge of the city of Ivanov 590 00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:46.519 the Black Tornado. 591 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:51.960 I do want to note that Goloshchenkin, yes, he was 592 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.519 involved in the murder of the Tsar, but he was 593 00:39:55.559 --> 00:40:00.719 the first dictator of Kazakhstan that that you could only 594 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.920 be called genocidal policy against the natives there. Of course, 595 00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:09.239 he knew zero about Kazakh life. That wasn't the point. 596 00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:13.760 It was to destroy how they were living, mostly you know, 597 00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:20.719 pastoral sheep herders and goat herders and everything else. And 598 00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:25.000 there were these nomadic peoples. They were completely destroyed. I 599 00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:28.079 think I mentioned in a few weeks ago. He was 600 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:33.840 replaced by yet another Jew who was also persed eventually, 601 00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:38.800 and by the time they were done, Kazakhs were a 602 00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:42.400 minority in their own country. 603 00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:46.960 They offer us the following interpretation. Quote, this is a 604 00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:49.840 question about the victims of the Soviet dictatorship. They were 605 00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:53.480 used by it and then mercilessly discarded when their services 606 00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:55.400 became redundant. 607 00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:56.320 End quote. 608 00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:59.679 What a great argument. So for twenty years these powerful 609 00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:03.679 Jews were really used. Yet weren't they themselves the zealous 610 00:41:03.679 --> 00:41:06.800 cogs and the mechanism of that very dictatorship right up 611 00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:10.079 to the very time when their services became redundant. Did 612 00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:12.760 not they make the great contributions to the destruction of 613 00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:19.440 religion and culture, the intelligentsia and the multi million peasantry. 614 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:23.639 Yeah, this was, you know, we'd say, you know, what 615 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:28.159 a great argument, you know, used by immergially discarded, well 616 00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:33.719 discarded by whom? Who could that be? The assumption is 617 00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:37.119 that the party is inherently Russian or Ukrainian or something, 618 00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:42.719 and they're just a small piece of it. No, they 619 00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:46.800 were a huge part of the party, and those that 620 00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:50.639 perved them were often themselves Jews. We've talked about that 621 00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:54.000 in earlier discussions too. 622 00:41:56.599 --> 00:41:59.559 A great many Red commanders fell into the acts quote 623 00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:01.920 by the same Imber of nineteen thirty eight, without exception, 624 00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:06.000 all commanders of military districts who occupied these posts by 625 00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:10.599 June nineteen thirty seven disappeared without a trace. The political 626 00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:13.679 administration of the Red Army suffered the highest losses from 627 00:42:13.719 --> 00:42:17.519 the terror during the massacre of nineteen thirty seven. After 628 00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:23.119 the suicide of Gamarnik Your Gamernick, of the highest political 629 00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:28.440 officers of the Red Army death claimed all seventeen Army commissars, 630 00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:32.000 twenty five out of twenty eight corps commissars and thirty 631 00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:36.239 four out of thirty six brigade divisional commissars. We see 632 00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:39.239 a significant percentage of Jews in the now published lists 633 00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:43.039 of military chiefs executed in nineteen thirty seven to nineteen 634 00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:49.480 thirty eight. Grigory Stern had a very special military career. 635 00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:53.599 He advanced along the political officer's path. During the Civil War, 636 00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:57.480 he was military commissar at regimental, brigade and divisional levels. 637 00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:00.880 In nineteen twenty three to twenty five, he was head 638 00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:05.199 of the special detachments of the Coorisim, a short lived 639 00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:09.239 republic after the Bolshevik Revolution troops during the suppression of 640

00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:12.840 rebellions in Central Asia. Until nineteen twenty six, he was 641 00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:18.039 the head of the Political Administrative a political administration division. Later, 642 00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:21.519 he studied at the Military Academy for Senior military Officers. 643 00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:24.760 In nineteen twenty nine through thirty four, he was a 644 00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:28.199 military advisor to the Republican government in Spain, not to 645 00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:33.039 be confused with Manfred Stern, who also distinguished himself among 646 00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:38.039 the Red Spaniards under the alias of General Klaber. Later 647 00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:40.679 he was the chief of Staff of the Far Eastern 648 00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:44.239 Front and conducted bloody battles at Lake Hassan in nineteen 649 00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:48.000 thirty eight together with Mechlus, at the same time conspiring 650 00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:54.280 against Marshall Bluksher, whom he ruined and whose post of 651 00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:58.599 the Front commander he took over after the arrest of 652 00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:01.800 the latter. In March nineteen thirty nine, at the eighteenth 653 00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:05.039 Party Congress, he made this speech quote, together we have 654 00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:10.119 destroyed a bunch of good for nothings to Kashn to 655 00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:18.920 Kashchevski's gamarniks uberv ubershevs while he himself later was shot. 656 00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:22.960 While he himself was shot later in autumn nineteen forty one. 657 00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:28.760 Stearn's comrade in arms in arms in Aviation, Yakov Schmushkevich, 658 00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:32.039 also had a head spinning career. He too began as 659 00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:35.000 a political officer until the mid nineteen thirties. Then he 660 00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:38.199 studied the Academy for Top Officers in nineteen thirty sixties 661 00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:41.519 thirty seven. He had also fought in Spain and aviation 662 00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:44.840 and was known as General Douglas. In nineteen thirty nine 663 00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:48.840 he was commander of the Aviation group at Kalknol. After 664 00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:51.760 that he rose to the Commander of all Air Forces 665 00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:54.800 of the Red Army, the General Inspector of the Air Force. 666 00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:58.280 He was arrested in May nineteen forty one and executed 667 00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:59.199 in the same year. 668 00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:04.480 There's a lot here. First of all, for those who 669 00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:13.559 maybe haven't been following closely, the Revolutionary Brigade is not 670 00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:18.920 the same as a regular army. This was a and 671 00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:22.079 he old Kim Hoffmann agrees with me on this in 672 00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:27.000 his Stalin's War of Execution, which

is a strongly recommend 673 00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:31.760 You know, they didn't know much about military strategy as 674 00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:37.760 formal ideas. They knew guerrilla warfare, they knew cell structure 675 00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:39.960 of that kind of That's why they were Jews with 676 00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:43.559 these ranks. They weren't really colonels in generals. It's like 677 00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:45.760 Trotsky was a head of the Red Army, but from 678 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:51.239 what he had no military experience. He was a revolutionary though, 679 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:55.800 but he also knew that he seldom knew that he 680 00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:59.000 had to create a regular army. And that's why some 681 00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:02.760 of these people had to go. Oh number two, I 682 00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:07.280 do want to point out calcum go. We covered this 683 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:10.079 when else at the Barns a few years ago. It 684 00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:16.239 showed it proved the superiority of Soviet weapons far fares 685 00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:20.400 spirit than the Germans or anything the Americans had. Their 686 00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:23.920 new tanks were used there. They the Blitzkrieg was created there, 687 00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:27.679 not by the Germans, it was it was a Soviet 688 00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:36.079 idea that I remember. But by nineteen forty one Stalin 689 00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:43.199 had more amphibious tanks than Germany had. Total German tanks 690 00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:48.159 were radically inferior to the to the Soviets, and and 691 00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:53.599 was on display at that battle. Yeah, people may point 692 00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:56.920 out the Finnish War, but that that Manorheim line was 693 00:46:56.960 --> 00:47:01.599 considered impregnable and they did it. That was not, you know, 694 00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:03.679 seen by people who knew as a defeat. It was 695 00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:07.559 it was something that you know, people thought no one 696 00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:11.519 could do, that they were willing to do it. Uh 697 00:47:11.559 --> 00:47:17.199 So Calcuan goal proves that that invading the USSR there 698 00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:21.960 was no sense of victory. Germany didn't have the equipment. 699 00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:28.760 Their tanks were inferior, to say the least. Uh. Either men, 700 00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:32.519 we were solid, they're there, high level commanders of course, 701 00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:35.400 World War One vets, many of them, they were solid, 702 00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:41.119 but they they had no chance against against what was 703 00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:45.519 on display in Mongolia. The Japanese, who were also fairly advanced, 704 00:47:45.559 --> 00:47:49.360 lost very badly. And so those are two important things 705 00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:53.119 to come out out of this. And so I know 706 00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:55.599 there's certain I say the same things over and over again. 707 00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:57.920 I don't know who's following each and every episode and 708 00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:01.280 who's just picking one at a time. But these are 709 00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:06.280 very important insights to understand this stuff. But you know 710 00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:09.440 stng wand the situation where a guy would work his 711 00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:12.880 way through the ranks like a normal soldier, not just 712 00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:17.079 become a gorilla with a rifle who then later called 713 00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:20.679 the colonel. You know, he can't have that anymore, and 714 00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:23.400 that was the point of the persias. 715 00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:27.920 I'm going to read a couple of sentences here and 716 00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:31.199 then I'm gonna skip over a very long list of 717 00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:35.320 names that and most of a lot of these names 718 00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:36.400 we've already heard. 719 00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:39.960 We've been talking about so it's painful. 720 00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:45.679 The wave of terror spared neither administrators nor diplomats. Almost 721 00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:50.079 all the diplomats mentioned above were executed. Let's name those party, military, 722 00:48:50.119 --> 00:48:54.000 diplomatic and managerial figures we mentioned before on these pages 723 00:48:54.039 --> 00:49:02.079 who now are persecuted. It's like one hundred names here. Yeah, yeah, 724 00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:05.199 that list follows up with This is indeed a commemoration 725 00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:09.559 roster of many top place Jews. Below are the fates 726 00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:13.760 of some prominent Russian Jewish socialists who did not join 727 00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:19.360 the Bolsheviks or who even struggled against them. Boris Bogdanovich 728 00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:23.719 was an Odessa, the grandson and son of labor suppliers. 729 00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:27.000 He graduated from the best commerce school in Odessa. While studying, 730 00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:30.559 he joined social democrat societies. In June nineteen oh five, 731 00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:32.480 he was the first civilian who got on board the 732 00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:37.000 Mutantish battleship Petempkin. When she entered the port of Odessa. 733 00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:39.679 He gave a speech for her crew, urging sailors to 734 00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:43.079 join Odessa's labor strike. He delivered letters with appeals to 735 00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:47.159 consulates of the European powers in Russia. He avoided punishment 736 00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:49.519 by departing for Saint Petersburg, where he worked in the 737 00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:53.239 social democratic underground. He was a Menshevik. He was sent 738 00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:58.000 inced to two two year long exiles, one after another. 739 00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:01.280 That's a long name,

I don't know how to pronounce, and. 740 00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:02.960 To Vologda, Siberia. 741 00:50:04.280 --> 00:50:07.440 Before the war he entered the elite of the Menshevik movement. 742 00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:11.639 He worked legally on labor questions. In nineteen fifteen he 743 00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:13.920 became the secretary of the Labor group at the Military 744 00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:17.920 Industrial Committee. Was arrested in January nineteen seventeen and freed 745 00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:20.519 by the February Revolution. He was a member of the 746 00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:24.599 Executive Committee of the Soviet of Workers and Soldiers, Deputy 747 00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:28.880 of pet Deputies of Petrograd, and regularly chaired its noisy sessions, 748 00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:32.400 which attracted thousands of people. From June nineteen seventeen, he 749 00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:34.280 was a member of the Bureau of the All Russian 750 00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:38.280 Central Executive Committee and persistently opposed ongoing attempts to the 751 00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:42.280 Bolsheviks decize power. After the failed Bolshevik Revolution in July 752 00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:45.079 nineteen seventeen, he accepted the surrender of the squad of 753 00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:51.119 sailors besieged at the Petro Pavust Fortress. After the October 754 00:50:51.159 --> 00:50:53.639 coup in nineteen eighteen, he was one of the organizers 755 00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:57.480 of the anti Bolshevik workers movement in Petrograd. During the 756 00:50:57.519 --> 00:51:00.360 civil war, he lived in Odessa the civil where he 757 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:03.159 tried to restart the Menshevik political activity, but at the 758 00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:05.719 end of nineteen twenty he was arrested for one year. 759 00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:08.800 That was the beginning of the many years of unceasing 760 00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:12.400 arrests and sentences, exiles and camps, and numerous transfers between 761 00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:15.159 different camps, the so called great Road of so many 762 00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:18.280 socialists in the USSR, And all that was just for 763 00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:22.280 being a Menshevik in the past and for having Menshevik convictions, 764 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:26.639 even though by that time he no longer engaged in politics, 765 00:51:26.679 --> 00:51:30.320 and during brief respites simply worked on economic posts and 766 00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:34.400 just one in a quiet life. However, he was suspected 767 00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:38.880 of economic sabotage. In nineteen twenty two, he requested permission 768 00:51:38.920 --> 00:51:42.800 to emigrate, but shortly before departure was arrested again. First 769 00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:45.920 he was sent to Solofki prison camp and later exiled 770 00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:49.199 to the Peshora camp in the Urals. His sentences were 771 00:51:49.239 --> 00:51:53.559 repeatedly extended by

three years. He experienced solitary confinement in 772 00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:57.679 the Sustyle camp and was repeatedly exiled. In nineteen thirty one, 773 00:51:57.719 --> 00:52:00.320 they attempted to incriminate him in the case of the 774 00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:03.599 All Soviet Bureau of Mensheviks, but he was lucky and 775 00:52:03.639 --> 00:52:06.400 they left him alone. Yet he was hauled in again 776 00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:09.679 in nineteen thirty seven, imprisoned in the Umpst Jail together 777 00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:15.199 with already imprisoned communists, where he survived NonStop interrogations, which 778 00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:18.880 sometimes continued without a pause for weeks. At any time 779 00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:22.159 of the day or night. There were three shifts of investigators. 780 00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:26.039 He served out seven years in the Kargopol camp. Several 781 00:52:26.119 --> 00:52:30.719 other Mensheviks were shot there. Later he was exiled to Cyclists. 782 00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:33.440 I can't pronounce that. In nineteen forty eight he was 783 00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:37.239 again sentenced and exiled to Kazakhstan. In nineteen fifty sixty 784 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:40.840 he was rehabilitated. He died in nineteen sixty a worn 785 00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:42.079 out old man. 786 00:52:43.639 --> 00:52:46.480 Yeah, these you know. He was so much of the 787 00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:52.519 opposition both the Lenin installing. It was more extreme against 788 00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:54.800 Stallin because of who he was in the system that 789 00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:59.280 he created. It came from the left, It came from 790 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:04.199 other Communis and anarchists. It wasn't like there were Monaricas 791 00:53:04.239 --> 00:53:09.280 out there doing this. I've been asked before why in 792 00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:14.360 Heaven's name didn't didn't zarre Nicholas the second shoot Lenin 793 00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:22.000 and Trotsky, And I don't have a clear answer for it. Yes, 794 00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:25.280 I mean, you know, he was considered under protection from 795 00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:29.840 from the Germans during the war. He came in quite late. 796 00:53:30.039 --> 00:53:36.079 Trotsky was there. Uh. Being being sent to Siberia was 797 00:53:36.119 --> 00:53:38.679 not really a punishment there. Remember, they didn't have much 798 00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:42.280 of a prison system. Being exiled to Siberia meant you 799 00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:46.519 went to live with somebody who was you know, compensated 800 00:53:46.519 --> 00:53:50.679 for it, and you could just leave at any time. 801 00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:55.840 There were no barbed wire or anything else. And the 802 00:53:55.880 --> 00:53:59.559 assumption is that you wouldn't make that long trek. Well 803 00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:04.039 he did and many others did too. Sometimes you're you're 804 00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:06.800 like Boomer. Conservatives love these people because they were anti 805 00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:10.480 anti Stalinists, despite the fact that if they had power, 806 00:54:10.519 --> 00:54:12.639 they would have done the exact same thing, just to 807 00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:15.199 a different group of people. They would have purge a different. 808 00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:15.800 Group of people. 809 00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:19.760 The Great Road of Socialist in the US s ARM. 810 00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:25.880 This man was just simply not not considered trustworthy. Uh. 811 00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:29.559 And also, by the way, on the the mutiny of 812 00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:35.679 the the Temkin. I have a lecture and also a 813 00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:40.079 paper published on that that the story there is completely 814 00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:44.599 is mostly nonsense and like everything that your typical you know, 815 00:54:44.679 --> 00:54:49.239 boomer believes, and that that's worth I think, I think 816 00:54:49.239 --> 00:54:51.760 the parties of you published it. I can never remember, 817 00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:54.800 but I love this idea. You know, if he avoided 818 00:54:54.800 --> 00:54:58.920 punishment by going to Saint Petersburg, you know, to year 819 00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:03.119 long exiles, these really weren't much punishment. There was just 820 00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:05.800 simply a matter of time before he made his way back. 821 00:55:06.119 --> 00:55:11.320 Same thing for damning for the rest of them, you know. 822 00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:13.320 And if it wasn't for the revolution, he would have 823 00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:18.639 been you know, Zaryn Nicholas was extremely lenient to these people, 824 00:55:20.840 --> 00:55:22.559 and I hate to say it was it was an 825 00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:27.000 error on his part. And these you know, extic Siberia 826 00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:33.320 sounds awful, right, it sounds terrible, but it really wasn't. 827 00:55:33.719 --> 00:55:36.000 Not for your typical Russian with the Jew, you know, 828 00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:40.480 Jew or Russian. They didn't perish there, they didn't die there, 829 00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:44.239 and they were able to write, you know, Lenin wrote 830 00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:49.679 wrote many works there. It wasn't going to prison to 831 00:55:49.719 --> 00:55:52.000 a great extent because these aarist didn't really have a 832 00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:55.000 full prison system, yet they were forced to create one 833 00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:58.800 very late. But of course the Soviets, with American assistance, 834 00:55:59.199 --> 00:56:03.360 created a real regular prison system, not just the gulags, 835 00:56:03.360 --> 00:56:10.880 but the separate prison system as well. So the opposition 836 00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:17.400 to Stalin came from other Communists, at least at this point, 837 00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:20.599 or at least people who used communist rhetoric. That was 838 00:56:20.599

--> 00:56:22.280 the only way that you could ever get to anybody. 839 00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:28.960 So and you know, why why Nicholas didn't just shoot 840 00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:33.920 some of these people? I don't have an answer, And 841 00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:34.480 it's a shame. 842 00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:40.760 We're sort of at a point here where he's just 843 00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:45.480 he's going to cover these people, and he covers like 844 00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:48.880 five or six of them, and then who were active 845 00:56:49.480 --> 00:56:53.320 anti communists but were communists, or anti Bolsheviks but were 846 00:56:53.320 --> 00:56:56.360 Communists themselves. And then he comes up to a list 847 00:56:56.519 --> 00:57:00.599 of people who Jewish, people who seemed to be completely 848 00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:07.599 like innocent, They just were they were just persecuted by 849 00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:12.079 uh by the Bolsheviks. So what do you want to do? 850 00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:14.440 We want to read through all of this, it'll take there, 851 00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:18.679 it'll take another twenty minutes to read through all of this. 852 00:57:18.800 --> 00:57:20.239 Or do you want to save it for next time? 853 00:57:20.559 --> 00:57:22.159 Or do we want to give the do we want 854 00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:24.519 to give the listeners or reading assignment of their own? 855 00:57:26.119 --> 00:57:30.079 Just no, no, I don't I don't mind reading this stuff. 856 00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:36.079 I trust Sultan Eats and Sultan Eatson's biographies. He had 857 00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:42.280 very good sources. And I think we should save the 858 00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:47.079 rest for uh, for the next time we load we 859 00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:51.199 load these people up. You know, I'm exhausted by the 860 00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:55.960 time we're done with this. But uh, there's a lot 861 00:57:55.960 --> 00:57:59.400 of information here, but I think I think it's important, 862 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:06.599 you know. But again, in conclusion, no one was persecuted 863 00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:07.440 because there were a Jew. 864 00:58:11.039 --> 00:58:14.199 Yeah, that's the most important thing to uh, yeah, to 865 00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:19.239 you know, once you realize that, you realize that the yeah, 866 00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:22.719 there there was a big difference, and the reason why 867 00:58:22.840 --> 00:58:25.760 is because there were well, I mean, how much of 868 00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:28.599 it do you think has to do with like like 869 00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:33.559 doctor j Outo Poll. He says that a lot of 870 00:58:33.559 --> 00:58:38.760 the reason why or the main reason that Poles, Poles 871 00:58:38.920 --> 00:58:42.679 and Germans were at this time being you know, taken 872 00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:45.400 out into the forest and shot en mass you know, 873 00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:49.039 up to sixty to seventy thousand, was because they were 874 00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:53.639 a diaspora people. And that the reason why there were 875 00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:55.960 a couple of reasons why the Jews weren't persecuted for 876 00:58:56.039 --> 00:58:58.320 being Jews is one, there were a lot of Jews 877 00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:01.880 in charge. And two, at this point, they weren't a 878 00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:04.519 diaspora of people who had another country that they could 879 00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:08.159 collaborate with. He said that he believes a lot of 880 00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:11.840 the Polls and a lot of the Germans were persecuted 881 00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:14.360 and executed because there was another country that they could 882 00:59:14.360 --> 00:59:15.639 possibly collaborate with. 883 00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:21.079 It was very dangerous to them. You're exactly right. This 884 00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:26.559 was essentially the Jewish homeland for a while, so they 885 00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:28.159 were not a deospora of people. I mean, of course 886 00:59:28.159 --> 00:59:33.119 there were Jews elsewhere, but the bulk of certainly the 887 00:59:33.159 --> 00:59:39.880 overwhelming majority of the Kenazi were in USSR, a huge 888 00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:42.000 one with eighty percent of the Jewish population was there. 889 00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:46.079 So they were not a despora of people. But at 890 00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:48.880 the point at the time you had Polls and Germans 891 00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:52.079 who had strongly anti Communists governments. 892 00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:57.400 Lithuanians I think Lithuanians were another group that was ye 893 00:59:57.599 --> 00:59:59.440 were persecuted as well. 894 01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:05.760 Yeah, yeah, Tartars certainly were as well for a different 895 01:00:05.800 --> 01:00:09.519 set of reasons. Charters were just simply relocated, which is 896 01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:15.840 really hard to do properly. They were not the hospital people, 897 01:00:16.480 --> 01:00:20.360 but there were Turkic you know, and there was an 898 01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:26.719 you know, an auto an empire that was unfriendly. Not 899 01:00:26.719 --> 01:00:31.400 so much the not sorry at some point, but even 900 01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:36.679 the earlier on. At this point we're talking about the 901 01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:43.000 Young Turk movement, which was somewhat more sympathetic and cooperated 902 01:00:43.039 --> 01:00:45.760 with the USSR quite a bit, but also had many 903 01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:52.039 major ideological disagreements, eventually just siding with the West. Not 904 01:00:52.119 --> 01:00:56.480 that long afterwards, but Automanism still was in the back 905 01:00:56.480 --> 01:00:59.280 of the minds of those making policy here that maybe 906 01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:01.480 they can't be trust so maybe they were someone of 907 01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:05.840 the hospital of people, but they were dangerous. They were 908

01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:13.079 perceived as dangerous. And because Marxism was materialists, literally everything 909 01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:17.320 is made of material, just mattering the void, killing a 910 01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:20.360 whole bunch of them, what doesn't mean that much. I 911 01:01:20.360 --> 01:01:23.199 don't know how you'd be upset about murder if you're 912 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:25.559 you know, you can't really be a consistent materialist. But 913 01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:29.280 if if you are, what's a big deal about murders? 914 01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:32.679 Just more more, you know, just atoms falling falling down. 915 01:01:34.679 --> 01:01:36.360 What's the big deal? What's the big problem with it? 916 01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:39.679 And I think that was part of the mentality too, 917 01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:44.480 anything that they needed to do to to maintain themselves, 918 01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:47.679 and this was an error to what we're talking about 919 01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:51.000 where you know, again, Salon Solomon felt himself far more 920 01:01:53.599 --> 01:01:58.880 secure in his position than Lennon ever did. But I 921 01:01:58.880 --> 01:02:01.760 don't want to I don't want to downplay the fact 922 01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:05.760 that there were plenty of rebellions everywhere, especially against cuctivization. 923 01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:12.440 It was non stop. And as far as the persecution 924 01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:15.679 of the church, you know, it just there was no 925 01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:19.360 one left to kill after a while. Everyone else either 926 01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:21.719 was either were dead, they were underground, or they were 927 01:02:21.760 --> 01:02:25.400 in exile. So as far as these ethnic groups, yes, 928 01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:29.320 it were very dangerous. I absolutely right to make that assumption. 929 01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:31.679 And of course, as we all know, they tried to 930 01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:34.360 blame the Germans for some of this, and only recently 931 01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:35.679 we're found out to be lying. 932 01:02:39.639 --> 01:02:43.079 All right, we will pick up the next time, and 933 01:02:43.639 --> 01:02:46.239 I'll just remind everybody to go to the show notes 934 01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:49.039 page and to go to the description. 935 01:02:48.679 --> 01:02:49.199 In the video. 936 01:02:49.280 --> 01:02:52.079 I have included a link to doctor Johnson's latest book 937 01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:54.639 on Ukraine. That's another way that you can support him. 938 01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:57.320 Go pick up that book. But there are multiple ways 939 01:02:57.320 --> 01:03:01.519 to support him. There and m hm yeah, we will 940 01:03:01.559 --> 01:03:03.840 see uh. We will be back in a couple of days. 941 01:03:04.360 --> 01:03:06.239 As always, thank you doctor Johnson. 942 01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:16.280 Oh no, I appreciate your help. Thank you m m 943 01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:28.360 h h