Pełna transkrypcja odcinka Knicks vs Sixers: Two Paths to an NBA Title

no one else has been able to do. 00:03:58.719 --> 00:03:59.840 And it's just it's wild. 00:03:59.919 --> 00:04:01.039 It's the kind of thing you couldn't make up. 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:02.240 So I've just been fascinated by it. 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:08.560 It it is it is storybook in that the two men at a shoe store back in the 70s. 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:26.639 Back in the 70s, yeah, and you know, through their their different roads, but building relationships, they would connect through the basketball scene, the South Jersey basketball scene, and then ultimately run tag team together to break a 53-year drought. 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:28.160 I thought that was incredible. 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:41.680 In your research, what was I always asked this of my writers and the authors who who, you know, um create books and different article profile pieces, what was that wow moment in your research that, like, you know, you looked at this like, yo, this is incredible. 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:43.279 So there's a few, right? 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:44.399 Uh, different buckets. 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:46.079 I kind of I'll put them in three, right? 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.839 So one is the Leon Wes. 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:55.920 Most people around the league and people on the outside kind of understand and say, oh, I get what Leon's getting out of this relationship. 00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:00.480 You know, Wes is the black guy who introduces him to the black players and he signs him, and that's sort of the cliche. 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:02.720 And so, but what and what's Leon getting at? 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:03.839 What's Wes getting out of it? 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:04.399 Excuse me. 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:11.360 And that's where some of the um, I'll say, rumors slash allegations come that Leon would pay Wes, you know, his money being funneled around. 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:12.720 I'll fast forward to the end. 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:14.720 I asked people because I want to ask people. 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:17.439 I had no understanding, no whiff of that being the case. 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:19.279 Um, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:27.759 Um, but I got a great story on what Leon how Leon how Wes viewed Leon as a mentor going up as he was um rising. 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:34.720 And like, you know, there was an agent once who um, when Wes was on his way up, basically made Wes an offer, I'll give you 500 bucks every player. 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:39.759 You direct a sign with me, and Wes meets Leon and he's all excited about it, and he's gonna do it, and it's a great thing. 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:46.639 And Leon basically they meet at like a hula hands at the Cherry Hill Mall, and Leon basically says, Um, that's crazy, do the math. 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:48.160 He's ripping you off, he's taking advantage of you. 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:52.959 And I just examples like that to show sort of no, this was a two-way relationship, right? 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:54.720 That that was good and interesting. 00:05:54.879 --> 00:06:00.399 Um, how Alan Houston's father is sort of the root of the West Knicks connection, which is really interesting. 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:23.680 So everyone knows the CAA Knicks stuff, but this predates that that Wesley's one of his first entry points into the world of sports is an assistant coach at Louisville named Wade Houston, who realizes there's a lot of athletic talent in Camden, recruits in Camden, gets told, hey, if you want to learn more about the kids, you gotta go check out this kid in the shoe store who knows all the, they don't use the word intel back then, but right, but all the intel, uh goes in, says, I'm looking for William Wesley. 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:27.839 William Wesley hears his full name being used, hides in the back because thinks he's in trouble. 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:31.360 When he finds out that a college assistant coach comes out, they hit it off. 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:39.120 Uh Milt Wagner, uh Billy Thompson, other uh Camden players now the corner of Louisville, Wade Houston is Alan Houston's father, right? 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:55.839 And so when Alan becomes sort of a nephew of Wes, and Alan then signs with the Knicks in the 2000s, and Alan Houston's very close to Dolan, and that's sort of Wes's entry point into Knicksphere and Dolan Worlds, which again, if we're talking about how he got here, like it starts there. 00:06:56.000 --> 00:07:01.920 And then the third is sort of the question of what does Wes actually do with the Knicks, and sort of seeing because it's interesting. 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:06.800 I talked to another agent who said, you know, I actually talked to Wes less now than I did before, which makes sense. 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:08.000 So it's like, what is he doing? 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:36.720 And sort of, I'll summarize and we talk more about it, but he's figured out a way, my understanding, is to apply all these soft skills he has inward in the organization and to be a connector and just sounding board and connector and helping people and all, and just lending real value to this line got cut from the piece, but I was talking to a general manager for another team, and he the way he phrased it was along the lines of you know, the Knicks were able to win a title in part, large part because they were able to optimize chemistry. 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:48.639 And this guy was saying, I don't think it's a coincidence that the team that was able to win a title because they were optimized, able to optimize chemistry was one that was put together by Leon and Wes, who have these uh seem to understand people in this unique way. 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:53.360 So those are sort of the three different buckets that to me it was like, oh, this is there's stuff here. 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:57.199 Yeah, uh the the the Houston piece was the one that caught me the most. 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:07.920 Yeah, was like, whoa,

okay, so obviously you see you know Alan Houston was is part of the front office now, but their relationship, his relationship with Wes and Leon go way back. 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:12.720 And so I thought I thought that was very interesting when I read that in the piece. 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:27.519 And that relationship aspect, that relational aspect, the the key strength of a worldwide west, it's interesting because especially when when we dissect the game now and we dissect front office moves, it's uh you know, what are the scouts saying? 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:28.879 What are the analytics saying? 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:31.279 Well, how are they evaluating talent? 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:40.960 How are they leveraging their assets, which was still key for the Knicks, but the softer skills, which World Wide West, that's his super strength, his superpower, right? 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:59.440 Whether it's throughout Nike, Jordan, the college scene, now the pro scene, that seemed to play a big part in really bringing together all these egos, all these players from different walks to navigate the troubling times that uh that occurred during a regular NBA season for many teams. 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:01.200 I I think 100%, right? 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.440 It's sort of like is it's interesting. 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:05.120 You want to think about like what's the lesson, you know. 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:07.440 We always try to learn a lesson from a championship team. 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:13.279 And maybe the lesson is most teams, you know, Sacramento Kings and New Orleans Pelicans excluded, right? 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:17.039 But most teams these days are pretty good on the analytics and the cap strategy. 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:20.960 Like, there's a lot of people who can do that stuff, and a lot of really smart people, and yes, some are better than others. 00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:24.080 And the Knicks have a guy who's great, Brock Aller, who's really respected. 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:31.120 You know, he's so good that I'm sure even I'll say casual, not that anyone here is listening is casual, but he's the rare cat strategist who fans know the name, right? 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:32.000 He's that good. 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:40.080 Um so but maybe if like everyone's having that, the thing that separates is the ability to just know people and see people. 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:52.399 And and what's interesting is like they they've built it with family, they've they've parted with family, they've fired family or traded family, whether it's Thibodeau, whether it's Quickly, whether it's DiVincenzo, but then they replaced it with like other members of the family, right? 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:56.159 So Thibodeau might be a brother, Mike Brown's a cousin, and then we know him well, right? 00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:00.960 And and Quickly might be a nephew, but Kat's another nephew from a different brother, right? 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:14.080 And it's just like you bring them in, and I'm assuming, I don't know, I'm assuming part of it's relationships, part of it's knowing, no, we know these people and their how they work and how they're gonna mesh with the other people we have in the building. 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:16.720 And like the thing I didn't get, I would have loved to have got that. 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:17.840 I knew it was a long shot. 00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:29.919 I wanted to try to find an example of the guy who they didn't bring in, not because they were a bad person, but because there was something about that person who they thought the chemistry wouldn't be right in the building because that they saw something that others didn't. 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:31.440 And I'm sure there are examples of that too. 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:36.320 I couldn't find it, I I couldn't get a specific example, but those examples certainly exist, right? 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:37.679 And there might be something to that. 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:42.399 That, like in this age of, like you said, analytics and cap strategy, there might be something to soft skills, right? 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:46.320 And turning inward and understanding how that could be maybe a separator. 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:53.360 Yeah, that would have been fascinating to hear who was a player that they considered, but kind of pivoted because they didn't think he was the right fit. 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:59.440 And one of the things that, you know, when Leon Rose was on the the Roommates podcast, he said, we wanted guys who we felt like could play here. 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:02.320 So that would have been uh interesting to uncover. 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:08.320 Uh what was also interesting to me was World Wide West, his reaction to having to deal Emmanuel quickly. 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:10.080 You know, that relationship that they had. 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:21.519 I mean, from a fan perspective, we were very down on it because we saw quickly come up over the years from you know unknown bench player to borderline starter, and we wanted to see that homegrown talent flourish. 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:29.440 But when to part with him, yes, you're bringing in OG An and Obi, and ultimately was worth the risk, but it was tough for the fan base to part with quickly as well. 00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:33.200 For sure, he someone told me he spoke to him at the end like that he was basically crying saying it's a hard day. 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:37.759 And it's but it is instruct illustrative that they were um they were about winning, right? 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:46.399 They were about winning, and there are people, again, I'll put my hand up, myself included, who used to think, yeah, yeah, like they want to win, but you know, it was not as extreme. 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:56.559 I put in the piece that you know there was a joke going around was that they had figured out the genius of Wes and Leon was that they figured out how to find a billionaire

to how to use a billionaire's checkbook to repay all the favors they owed from the his from history. 00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:02.960 I would say I would I personally went that far, but it seemed at times that we were more about family than winning, and there were some misfires. 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:07.039 You can say whether, you know, I'll throw Michael Kill Michael Kid Gilchrist under the bus, right? 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:11.120 Like they brought him in now as Kentucky guy, and there were other stuff examples of push Kentucky. 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:17.840 And I don't know, I don't know if this was a uh if something changed with them over the years, if they just got better at the evaluation. 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:19.039 Like I don't know that. 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:23.919 But again, I mean Wes quickly the firing Thibodeau is the example. 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:28.559 Like that is like that, that is, he was their guy, and I him and Wes had some tension, I think, later on. 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:36.480 But Leon, but that was Leon's guy, and they made a decision, and yeah, it was coming from Dolan, but my understanding is everyone was this was not like Dolan only. 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:43.120 Um, and they that was their guy, and they made a decision, and the correct one, but they made a really tough business decision, right? 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:48.799 And I think the way I put it was sort of like family was good, but need to fuel winning, not come at the expense of it, right? 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:50.720 And that's what they landed on. 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:55.200 Yeah, their path to ultimately having to push the chips in the middle. 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:56.559 You know, in the beginning it was nice. 00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:58.879 They signed Brunson, okay, Diamond and Rough. 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:05.840 Now you go get uh Josh Hart on the margins, but ultimately to get to the mountaintop, they had to make some critical decisions. 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:08.000 You have to make some tough calls, tough calls. 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:15.200 And I thought putting all the chips in to go get Mikal Bridges, which was heavily criticized in the beginning. 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:19.679 And today they're still criticized today, even if they won the championship. 00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:27.279 But going to get Bridges, and then as you said, Leon firing Tibbs, who laid the foundation and got this team two games short. 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:31.120 Right, that's a key part two, not just a friend, but somebody who did a great job, right? 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:35.679 That's a key part two, and as it and had as big a role in the turnaround as anyone, like 100%. 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:43.840 Yeah, that that was major, but I I give them the credit for having the stones to do it now, as you said, with with you know, maybe James Down putting a little gasoline. 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:57.440 You know, maybe they didn't have a choice, but I do think, you know, based on my conversations and things of that nature, it was coming to that point where it was just like, uh, we we just got to lean, go to another direction, but still, hey, they still had to pull the trigger on it. 00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:59.759 And you can see by the guy they hired, they did the opposite. 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:03.120 I mean, like, not you know, they went with to give them credit. 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:20.159 I'm loath not to give them, I'm loath to give James Dolan necessarily credit on this, but yeah, we want collaps where we don't like the lack of collaboration, the mile way of the highway, the grinding people down, and they went and got a guy who was uber collaborative, uh, did not believe in grinding people down, long view, experimentation. 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:28.799 So, like they again put the chips in and they they you know their actions, their actions backed up their words, and obviously it all you know it all it all worked out. 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:30.080 It all worked out, and they did it. 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:35.919 And this, as I, you know, you get a few calls, people joking, like, oh, you gave Leon and West the puff piece, and I'm like, okay, fine. 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:36.320 You know what? 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:46.399 Yeah, as we're seeing now, as we're seeing the start of the season, you win a title in MSG, that's not easy for many, for the reasons that are obvious, and you do that, you deserve your flowers. 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:48.240 Oh, people criticize you for the article. 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:49.440 People thought it was a puff piece. 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:50.480 Not criticized. 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:53.759 I get some jokes, you know, from from uh from in an NBA world, you know what I mean? 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:54.720 Which is fine. 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:55.600 Jokes, jokes, yeah. 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:03.919 I mean, listen, as you said, for those two to come in and do to do the job that they did for where many have failed and crashed and burned, quite frankly. 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:08.080 I I think it deserves the credit and it gives the fans a little inside look under the hood. 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:10.080 And you didn't even speak to these guys. 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:18.080 I mean, what is what is that like in terms of a research process to put this story together without even going to the primary source? 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:21.840 I mean, listen, and then uh, you know, what's the bane line of Batman? 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:23.039 I was born of darkness, right? 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:25.519 Like the teams I've uh, you know, the teams I've covered. 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:37.120 I this is my New York and the Knicks are sort of my NBA home covering games there, and uh these two books did not have participation, so I've just gotten used to uh the idea of main principles won't participate. 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:38.639 Um that's fine. 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.399 Yeah, my thing is I

just call everybody. 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:42.480 I just literally, I just call everybody. 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:44.399 This was like this became again. 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.559 I want to do this because I believe this was the story. 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:49.279 I believe this was the key story of this team that hadn't fully been told. 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:53.360 People know about it, and like again, shoe store, and then we yada yada yada to the end. 00:15:53.440 --> 00:16:04.399 Like, there's there's I this is it like the family, the Leon West relationship, and then building out a team that mirrors what they built, what they did and their and their trajectory, right? 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:08.000 Like to me, that is that's the story of the Knicks. 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:10.799 I mean, we even mentioned like the Rick Brunson, right? 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:18.000 Leon, like the karma of Leon Rowe sticking by a guy who was the equivalent of a 10-day 10-day guy for his entire career, right? 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:28.799 And you get repaid via karma that that guy's son by Leon Rowe sticking with him while he's like becomes the biggest agent, has Iverson LeBron, and through Karma, you get rewarded that guy's son becomes like basically Tom Brady for you, right? 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:31.120 Um like that this stuff's there. 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:40.159 So, yeah, it'd be nice to finally be able to fully sit down and like ask all these people these questions and get internal dialogue and stories or whatever. 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:41.519 Um, but it's fun. 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:45.120 To me, it's like you're sort of telling the story of modern NBA history. 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:46.480 They represent modern NBA history. 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:51.200 You can tell the story of the modern NBA and the growth of what basketball world looks like through their trajectory. 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:51.679 Yeah. 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:58.399 I also did find it interesting because one of the things I always wondered, especially with Wes, is like, is there anything out there, man? 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:00.879 Like, I just hope nothing comes out because he's notorious. 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.120 Like he's got you know, he's got the Kentucky relationship. 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:08.640 Of course, we we came up now, NILs and everything make these things a little bit like ah, whatever. 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:20.079 But before that, you know, the the the relationships in college, you always wanted to like scrutinize a little bit because you know, guys had come under fire for getting money and boosters and all, you know, all the shady stuff going on. 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:23.519 But you never you never heard of anything from from uh about Wes. 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:26.000 No, I when I say I wouldn't say I tried. 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.559 I asked anyone I spoke to, I would ask those questions. 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:36.880 I'm a believer in that, like, and

what I would tell even if people who are the friends of theirs, I'm saying I'm gonna ask you this on the record because then answer me on the record and don't get offended. 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:38.880 So we can put it in there saying no, right? 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:40.319 Like saying it didn't happen. 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:44.880 So again, I don't know, and you know, if Wes was short answer, no, I didn't hear anything. 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.000 And where I've sort of landed, and maybe I'm naive, right? 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:53.119 And I could be I've been wrong and played at times, whatever it might not play, but missed stuff before in my career. 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:54.880 It's 40 years already, right? 00:17:54.960 --> 00:18:09.680 And over the course of 40 plus years, even when money's involved, at some point stories come out via people feeling screwed or burned, or just money changes relationships from all perspectives. 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:19.680 Whether someone felt a player's um, whether a player had like an uncle being paid off and that was directing them to Leon and that this had, and then they found out like that would happen, and you find out about it, right? 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:21.599 These things get out, and it just didn't get out. 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:30.640 As I like someone, I talked to someone from basketball world, and they said the funny part about back then was we used to joke you didn't become a man in like the 90s until um you fired your first agent. 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:35.440 The reason being usually the first agent was picked because somebody in the family was on the take. 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:39.039 That they find out, they feel burned, then they go to the next agent, right? 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:50.799 And like, so this stuff was rampant, and I actually, where I landed, and again, maybe I'm naive, where I landed is that Wes and Leon, part of the reason they were able to thrive and become who they were, is because they were the opposite of this. 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:53.759 So they stood out in this world, and that's at least how people understood it. 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.200 And I asked the best example I got, and I put she's on the record, it's great. 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:03.759 Krissa Chin, who spent um like 30 years around the NBA, she's union the lead, Nike, she's basically known as the NBA mom. 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:07.440 She's really close to players, and she said, I never heard anything about that. 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:16.480 And I would have, I would have think that at some point somebody got burned for whatever reason, which would happen if you have money involved or things like that involved or favors, she would have heard about it. 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:17.599 So that's all I could say. 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:18.079 I don't know. 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:30.480 The Dolan aspect is very interesting because we're we're we are in a time now when I mean he's getting tomatoes, shoes, whatever flying objects you can find at at his head, you know, if if you want to put it that way. 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:36.000 But um I and you have people who say, Well, they won the championship in spite of him, they won it in spite of him. 00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:37.599 I mean, he did hire them, right? 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:38.880 He did have the relationship, right? 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:46.480 The relationship, if he doesn't have the relationship with Wes from back in the the the beginning of the 2000s, are we here today? 00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:47.200 I don't know. 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:48.319 Okay, that's fair. 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:50.400 I I saw yeah. 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:56.400 I think I'm a little more uh seeing uh let's say off a ring discourse and what you were saying, and I'm not criticizing. 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:01.359 I think I'm a little more on the in spite of him uh side of the spectrum than you are. 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.799 Um yes, he hired them, which is true. 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.839 Not obviously true, which is and it's a fair point. 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:16.160 Um I also think, which maybe would back you up a little more, but I also think some of the uh they won because he was absentee for five years. 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.640 I think a lot of that stuff has been greatly overstated. 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:23.839 Um I'm not saying like he let them make their decisions, but I mean I'll give an example. 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:36.160 Talk to any anyone beatwriter who was around the team when Thibodeau was there, even there are times where after a game and the beatwriters way in the hallway, you get you gotta walk by Dolan's office, wherever he watches the game, his suite or whatever, to get to the locker room. 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:42.240 So usually you'll be shocked to learn MSG Security doesn't want us going through, you're not supposed to go through until Dolan's kind of clear. 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:43.839 Not an absentee owner, right? 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:50.640 I'm not saying he was telling Thibodeau who to start, but if the owner's meeting with the coach, I'm just giving you one example, you give millions of others, like that's not an absentee owner. 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:54.640 So some of this stuff about the sphere and he was gone, that's why they were able to thrive. 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:56.559 I I think that's overstated. 00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:58.240 Um, I think he gave him a little space. 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:00.640 I have this in a piece I'm an MSG insider, right? 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:06.000 Like that Jalen, when the Jalen, when they signed Jalen, they put them their neck out on the line. 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:08.720 Immediately Jalen was a revelation, Brunson. 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:21.839 Uh, and that then let Dolan, the person was telling me that that he thought that per this this MSG insider believed that that was a major place for a major thing for Dolan to be like,

oh, these guys, I can trust these guys and kind of give them a little more space. 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.920 Um, but we're seeing it now, man. 00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:26.640 Like managing managing up with him is it's difficult. 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:27.680 It's it's very difficult. 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:28.880 Certainly is. 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.279 Uh down the turnpike south a little bit. 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:37.519 You have this Philadelphia 76ers, who the Knicks swept on their way to that elusive championship. 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:41.599 And now at the helm, you got Bob Myers first and foremost out as Darrell Mori. 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:47.359 Bob Myers just comes in, he's tasked by Josh Harris to find his new GM, and he picks one Mike Gante. 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:53.279 Now, you look at Leon and these guys, it took them six plus years to make their way up here. 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:59.839 Now, Mike Ganty takes a job with no experience, and he's he he gets a Jalen Brown phone call. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:06.240 In his lap, and then by the way, one of the greatest players of the sport, and then by the way, now you gotta win a championship this year. 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:07.920 Uh yeah, we threw him. 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:11.440 And I I my understanding is like that was not the plan. 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:12.960 Again, not gonna break news. 00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:26.880 You know, every I'm assuming I know about him, or I was told about him, but I'm assuming every GM, every person, sorry, prospective GM who interviewed for that job with Philly probably had the same pitch of slow, let him beat in George, you know, those contracts we can't move. 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:32.960 Maybe we can move Paul George's contract next year, build around VJ and Tyree, slow asset accumulation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:33.119 Right? 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:36.559 All that optionalities, everyone's fair or I'm sure that was thrown around, things like that. 00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:45.599 Uh, then, like you say, the Jalen, and listen, I I I'm all I'm uh with you that I think it probably did fall into his lap, but I'll, you know, same way we'll give Leon and Wes credit for their stuff. 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.559 We'll give Gansy and them credit for executing and taking advantage. 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:51.920 Um, but yeah, it definitely changed the trajectory. 00:22:52.000 --> 00:23:02.559 The inf the interesting part is I I'm assuming, I don't know, like in the Embiid being on the roster with his contract sort of gives you an almost gives you an out to try to do both, because like you can't trade him. 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:07.039 So you just gotta, you're basically two plus years here if you to play it out. 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:17.440 So like why not, why not just go for it in a way that you know it that doesn't hurt you long term, and obviously anyone you add LeBron and Jalen Brown for the cost of basically Paul George is a bad contract. 00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.720 I I hate talking about players like that, like as a contract, but that's your value. 00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:24.079 You basically dump the contract, uh, attach one pick to that. 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:27.039 It took another pick to get Jalen Brown, and you got LeBron a minimum. 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.720 Like that's like everyone, like that's that you didn't give up anything. 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:32.799 Um I don't know, this is an announcement. 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:36.319 As a fan, I'm just really excited for this the New York Philly thing this year. 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:37.200 I think it's gonna be a blast. 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:38.720 I think it's gonna be so fun. 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:40.480 Yeah, I I think it is gonna be fun. 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.920 And look, Philly sent a message on on banner night and opening night. 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.839 They they they took that game from the Knicks. 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:51.599 Uh, we'll see if Jalen Brown plays tonight in in the second matchup, but I'm I'm looking forward to it. 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:56.160 Uh but from the Philly side, look, these were worthwhile gambles you had to make. 00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:02.640 You still have a your young, dynamic backcourt and maxi and edge comb that you can build around for a few years to come now. 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:03.680 You had to do it. 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:06.799 This is a team that's under a lot of pressure to get it done. 00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:11.119 The Brown thing, I look, I still don't understand why Boston did it. 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.160 Yes, they want to sell you on the analytics and this, that, and the third. 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:18.160 I like Jalen Brown as a player, so I thought that was a no-brainer for Philly. 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:25.839 And then look, you get a player in LeBron James, who, while he's not who he who he once was, he's still an extension of the of the coach on the court. 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:31.279 And you have one of the highest IQ players to ever play the game kind of blending this all together. 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:38.400 To me, their swing skill or or their swing effect is gonna be on the defensive side, how well they can defend and how well they can stay healthy this year. 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:40.240 LeBron probably had a minimum, too. 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:51.119 That was sort of the uh I'll say the genius of it, because I think, you know, recognizing that the Lakers weren't gonna pay him and that all of a sudden I think he's partly in Philly because he looked up and said, Oh, oblique, there's nowhere for me to go, right? 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:55.200 That's like people want to know why you think the Sixers, and he's talked about the Knicks thing, whether true or not. 00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:58.319 I kind of believe it, I don't know, but I believe it just based on how he goes. 00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:02.960 And I think the

original plan when he went to LA was to retire there, and they clearly didn't want him anymore. 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:03.519 Oh, they were. 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:07.359 I mean, I haven't met a Lakers fan that liked the LeBron era. 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:13.279 And and the team has been very like basically as up front about it, while being polite without saying it, right? 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:17.920 So it's what happened is they didn't want to get a pay him, they didn't want to embarrass him, so then he said, Okay, I'm gonna leave. 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:22.799 And he had no max contract, there was no big market, there was nowhere he can go where he could win, and he wanted to live. 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:34.319 So it's like, okay, I guess I can go from Philly to New York, but he and by going a minimum, you then turn it into a valid sweepstakes because LeBron, on a minimum, that like that that's as valuable an asset contract as you can have in the NBA. 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:40.559 The ironic part about the Knicks Sixers is like, is it gonna come down to which one of them like is able to trade for Brooke Lopez to be the backup center, right? 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:42.000 Like they're gonna be fighting over each other. 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:43.599 But like honestly, right? 00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:54.720 They both need they both need another five, and it's it really could come down to who has that guy who in game five and six of a playoff series can can get them through it, which sounds insane, but I don't know. 00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:58.480 Who's the guy that can make a little stop, get a little offensive rebound here and there? 00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:04.880 I mean, that I was surprised to see them, you know, sign Taco Fall and let when to when the Knicks go with Tony Bradley. 00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:14.640 I thought the winner, the loser of the Knicks third string tryout would have easily gone to Philadelphia, but Tony Bradley ends up going to uh to Utah and the Sixers sign Taco Fall. 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:16.400 So uh very interesting. 00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:24.000 Um, you know, we've had to endure two weeks of Knicks fans crashing out over the slow start, but nevertheless, we are here, two and three. 00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:25.279 They were two and three last year. 00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:25.839 There you go. 00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:28.559 There you go. 00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:30.640 Yeah, it's uh big and the NBA Cup. 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:32.240 We got the NBA Cup, it's big cup night. 00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.400 Big Cup Night Cup night, big cup night. 00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:38.000 Um what biggest surprise in the league so far that you're watching? 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:39.839 Ooh, I mean the Memphis. 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:42.559 Memphis was I don't even know what to make about that. 00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:46.799 Uh it's yeah, I have I haven't watched all six of the games. 00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:48.160 I'm gonna out myself here, right? 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:50.000 Sorry, I'm not crushing NBA tape like that. 00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:54.240 Um but I will shout out Ty Jerome, as we were talking before, uh New Rochelle. 00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:55.519 Uh I believe he went to height, right? 00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:57.920 New Rochelle, so I thought that's Jerome. 00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:00.240 Yeah, um, I mean that makes no sense. 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:01.039 I mean, which I love. 00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:04.880 Like six and oh is I don't know, something about six, it makes a big difference in five. 00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:05.359 You know what I mean? 00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:07.759 No one's starting to creep in, and it's like, right six, right? 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:08.960 Am I overstay at six or five? 00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:10.000 It might be five. 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:10.480 It might be five. 00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.000 Oh, am I right five, die overstate, whatever. 00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:12.400 But they're five. 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:15.519 But they're the biggest they're the biggest surprise to me, I would say. 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:18.000 Um, obviously, Miami's struggling out of the gate. 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:19.839 Like I thought I didn't love me neither. 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:26.559 Like, I wasn't someone who thought they would be like a finals team, but I I I didn't think you'd come out looking like you don't know how to play basketball. 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:26.880 Yeah. 00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:29.039 Um, so those would be my those would be my two. 00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:29.920 Yeah, likewise. 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.680 I mean, it's it's nice to see the Grizzlies, you know, they scrap their tough competitive team. 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:35.759 I mean, Cam Boozer looks amazing as a rookie. 00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:35.920 Yeah. 00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:43.759 I think this entire rookie class, uh, I mean, you got at least five, six guys that are showing you some really, some real nice flash as first-year players. 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:46.720 And then uh, as you said, the Ty Jerome story. 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.759 They have Jeremy Grant. 00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:48.880 I was watching the game last night. 00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:55.759 They were in Portland against uh John Morant, against his old team, and um, yeah, they they just uh just really took it to him in that second half. 00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:58.640 Zach Edy looking like a player as well. 00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:02.400 So we'll we'll see where uh where that ends up for Memphis, man. 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:04.400 And what's interesting about them, I never know. 00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:06.880 I'm gonna buy the Tomas, I don't know how to pronounce his last name in the right. 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:07.839 Salo, I think. 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:08.160 Yep. 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:13.519 Yeah, so he's I I think if you look, he's actually the first true European coach to be in the NBA. 00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:20.880 Like

sometimes teams bring in European guys, but they're all every time that happens, they're Europeans whose basketball background is NBA, right? 00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:21.759 It's sort of a misnomer. 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:28.240 Like we want to bring a European coach, so let's get somebody with a passport, but that doesn't mean they're a European basketball player if they if they played in the NBA, right? 00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:28.400 Right. 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:31.599 He's the first he's really the first one. 00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:36.319 Uh I guess David Blatt was the other one that failed fizzled out after one year, but he's the first one to really do it. 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:41.519 And it's it'll be interesting, and I don't know enough about the dynamics there, whether like he's driving. 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:49.920 I it's something I'm just watching that I think could be it'd be interesting to pay attention to if that's if him being the first and them sort of um you know beating out expectations. 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:51.279 Sure, for sure. 00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:53.440 Uh what's next on the horizon for you? 00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:55.839 Uh any books, any any new pieces? 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:56.880 What's next for you? 00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:57.599 Not yet. 00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:58.400 Working between things. 00:28:58.480 --> 00:28:59.599 Yeah, where's the uh the Leon? 00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:01.119 I devoted a lot to the Leon. 00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:04.400 I'm glad people liked it because I devoted a lot to the Leon West uh story. 00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:06.160 So that sort of took my bandwidth. 00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:10.640 Not nothing on the uh, I mean, always stuff here and there, but nothing, nothing worth sharing at this point. 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:11.119 Okay. 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:16.000 Well, listen, when when it comes out, we'll look out for it, and uh we'll look forward to having you back on the show, man. 00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:17.680 But definitely good to have you back on. 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:28.640 Excellent piece on on Rose, and which you guys can find on New York magazine, nymac.com, and also the uh the Gancy Philadelphia article on The Ringer. 00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:31.119 So that's our guy, Yaron Weitzman. 00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:35.680 Yero, enjoy the weekend, enjoy the Halloween weekend with the kids, and we'll catch up, man. 00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:36.720 Thank you, buddy, YouTube. 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:37.759 All right. 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:38.960 All right, guys. 00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:40.400 Great show as usual. 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:42.960 Shout out to our guy, Yaron Weitzman, for coming through, man. 00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:44.720 Excellent NBA writer. 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:47.519 I hope you guys enjoyed the uh today's show. 00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:50.400 And and uh, if you guys haven't seen that piece, you know what? 00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:54.160 I'm gonna drop it here on the Knicks Fan TV side. 00:29:54.400 --> 00:30:00.559 This is the article on this is the article on uh what happened here? 00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:01.839 Oh, it's too long of a link. 00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:02.240 Okay. 00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:03.759 Well, I can't drop the links. 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:05.039 Sorry, I can't drop the link. 00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:07.200 Too long of a link to drop in the YouTube chat. 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:14.400 But just head to nymag.com or just Google Leon Rose Worldwide West, NY Mag, and then on the ringer side, you can look it up. 00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:17.680 It's one of the like most recent NBA articles that they have. 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:21.519 Alright, tonight, Knicks vs Sixers NBA Cup. 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:25.200 And we got you guys covered here on the number one show for the fans by the fans. 00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:28.400 We got play by play live with TK2K for you guys that are at home. 00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:31.680 For you guys that are in the New York area, join us for the Watch Party. 00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:36.400 We will be at Printers Alley, 215 West 40th Street, right in the heart of Times Square. 00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:37.279 Good time to be had. 00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:38.880 Doors will open at 6 o'clock. 00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:40.559 We'll have our guy uh Eric L. 00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:41.680 Beats on the ones and twos. 00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:44.000 Live game audio, great food, great vibes. 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:46.319 You guys know the deal, man, how we set you guys up. 00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:49.119 And then after the game, join us a post game live. 00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:52.000 CK Alex myself will be here breaking it all down. 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:53.839 And hopefully the Knicks get revenge, man. 00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:54.960 Forget these sixes. 00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:58.000 We need to defend the cup, and it starts tonight. 00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:58.799 I'm out of here. 00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:01.039 Salute to the franchise channel members, Will Adam and I.