Pełna transkrypcja odcinka Mission 300

300. 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:17.600 So we are, you know, kind of putting our money where our mouth is. 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:26.079 It's not just a you know reform roadmap and and trying to galvanize partners, it's also sort of a World Bank and AFDB investment program. 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:36.560 What the feedback that I get from people on the ground, businesses, business people, what they say is, well, mission 300 is just the name. 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:38.480 There's no additional money coming. 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:42.240 They basically just package it in a new kind of way. 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:43.839 Are they right? 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:46.240 Well, yes and no, I'd say. 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:54.800 I mean, there there is definitely if mission 300 would depend exclusively on IDA funding, on World Bank funding, then we would never be able to reach the 300 million. 00:05:54.879 --> 00:06:01.360 Because I mean, just to give you an example, for West Africa, the mission 300 targets basically mean that we have to double our ambition. 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:05.759 Our original target for 2030 was around 50 million people to be connected. 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:07.439 Now we're at 100 million, right? 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:13.199 So, needless to say, that if this would only depend on IDA funding, we'd have to eat into the funding of other sectors. 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:26.160 So this is happening at some point, but also it's happening because we're being smarter with working across sectors and combining, for example, agriculture projects that have an energy component with energy projects that have an agricultural component. 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:30.480 But there's only that far we can go in terms of using existing funding more efficiently. 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:36.480 So the key for the World Bank is actually to provide new platforms where we can bring new donor funding on board. 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:41.279 And not only conventional donors, but also philanthropies and also commercial funding. 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:50.160 So we have to get a lot smarter with using the existing World Bank funding to leverage both additional donor funding but also private sector investment. 00:06:51.439 --> 00:07:00.399 Jan, you said initially that the compacts that each government prepares plays a central role. 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:11.360 Like in this compact, basically, the government lays out its strategy for electrification up to 2030 and beyond, I guess. 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:22.000 Now, the question that is most interesting to our listeners today is how many countries, how many governments are actually considering mini-grids? 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:26.480 And what role does mini-grids play in these compacts? 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:33.360 So I mean this is interesting, and I'd like to hear James on this because Africa East and Africa West actually vary quite a bit. 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:43.279 But in Africa West, you have a lot of, especially the

Francophone governments who are what I call, I mean, this is provocative, but I mean it's true in a sense. 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:54.160 We're still living in grid la la land to a sense that they still believe that you can reach electricity targets by just extending the current grid, which I mean, just the financing doesn't add up. 00:07:54.240 --> 00:08:08.800 It's the most expensive approach to bringing electricity, especially to rural areas, but also the economics don't add up because most of the, especially in Francophone countries, or utilities are really ailing financially and are already losing money with every customer that they're serving. 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:16.560 So if you add poor customers in rural areas with much higher connection costs to that equation, it's needless to say that it's highly unsustainable. 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.959 So there's not only a technology, but also an economic need to really think beyond the grid. 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:22.160 And this is really important. 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:31.360 This is where the compacts had a huge impact on policies and strategies because governments had to admit that they can't have a cake and eat it too, right? 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:40.080 If they want to commit to universal electricity access, they have to change the strategy with which they extend electricity reach and they have to think beyond grids. 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:46.559 And this was probably one of the key added values of the M300 in West Africa, that it completely changed the dynamics. 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:53.039 And the other added value is that it's not only about long-term goals and technologies and long-term strategies. 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:56.399 This is also about the short to medium-term reform agenda. 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:58.399 So governments needed to make commitments. 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:01.519 If, for example, for certain mini-grid regulation is missing. 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:25.600 So let's say the regulation for the encroachment of the main grid on the mini-grid or tariff regulation for mini-grids, then they have to provide a timeline, an ambitious timeline by which this will be implemented and fully endorsed and fully adopted, because if they don't meet the timeline, they risk losing funding or they risk the World Bank reallocating funding to other governments that really play ball and that they respect the ambitious timeline of their compact. 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:27.759 So I think these two factors were really critical. 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:37.360 And yeah, and for mini-grid operators, especially in the francophone and West African countries, that means that they finally have the visibility that they deserve as an important part of the electrification equation. 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:41.840 James, do we want to contribute from the East African side? 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:47.360 Yeah, I mean, I think East Africa is interesting in the ways that it might differ from West Africa.

00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:55.919 So you do have a couple of francophone countries, right, that have a similar kind of concession approach to what you find in some of the West African countries. 00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:03.919 But you also have a lot of countries that are trying to set up minigrids under a licensing scheme or a registration scheme. 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:13.840 And I think the compacts there, you know, I don't have the sort of matrix of mini-grid specific elements of the compacts in in Africa East. 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:21.519 But the one that I worked on in Madagascar, it touched on tariffs, it touched on the concession, accelerating the progress through there. 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:27.759 So, you know, the ones that I saw come through or come across my desk, mini-grids played a pretty key role. 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:34.879 And as Jan said, you know, the governments they realize that they're not going to achieve their ambitious energy access targets just by doing the grid. 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:40.720 And, you know, mini-grids in East Africa, at least in several countries, are a priority for the government. 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:47.039 Lamida, what is your impression from going through the compacts and what are your learnings from there? 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:48.399 Thanks so much, Nico. 00:10:48.559 --> 00:11:05.679 And I want to echo the views of Jan and James, really, where they said basically for the first time in history, we're we're starting to seem sort of all hands on deck and every sort of single component of the value chain taking full ownership of what needs to happen. 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:07.519 Obviously, the devil's in detail. 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:17.919 So and now that we've had the compacts published by 30 countries, the various task teams sort of in place and the various projects up and running. 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.000 Now it's crunch time to deliver. 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:26.559 But where we stand, and I'm sort of we did an analysis of 29 compacts before the 30th was published. 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:51.120 And we came up, and I when I say we, a group of 29 really grid companies representing a significant uh proportion of the market share in Africa came up with a position paper from our analysis, at least from commitments made publicly, we know that half of uh the mission 300 targets were positioned to be uh powered by DRE as a whole. 00:11:51.440 --> 00:12:00.639 And from that from that 150 million, from that 50 percent, we've deduced that about 116 million people can be connected through mini-grids. 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:01.840 What does that mean? 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:04.639 That means obviously significant capital to be deployed. 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:17.919 But I like Jan's point about uh how the delivery or the preparation of the compact has started to see governments take a mind shift towards uh exploring alternatives to the grid. 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:26.320 And from our vantage point, mini grids will provide a significant uh cost savings as an alternative to grid. 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:40.480 Uh from the uh analysis, I believe, and from the broad assessment of the cost per uh connection, we see that mini grids can achieve with about 28 billion to 46 billion. 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:45.919 However, people have told me to stop using those numbers and speak about what the current pipeline looks like. 00:12:46.240 --> 00:13:03.360 So from our membership, from the 29 companies that participated in the delivery of this uh paper, we see about 2.7 billion in pipeline being required to achieve about a I mean a significant chunk of that. 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:18.559 But essentially what what I'm the message I'm trying to pass across is that uh mini-grids are positioned to achieve a significant chunk of the mission 300 targets, and the private sector is willing and ready to take charge and support the achievement of the targets. 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:21.919 I'll stop there for now and talk a little bit more about the paper later. 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:22.799 All right. 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:29.279 So, Jan and James, now we have the commitment from the government. 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:37.759 Now I guess it's a lot of coordination work from mission 300 sites, from your programs respectively, to make it happen, right? 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:44.960 The money, the World Bank and the AFDB are probably requiring certain conditions to be set. 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:53.919 And some of these conditions are probably already laid out in the documents, the compacts that the government submitted. 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.159 But I guess it's a lot of pushing and communication here and there. 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:00.159 Now, what are the actual tasks now? 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:04.720 What are the next steps to implement these policy changes? 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:13.519 Yeah, that's a great question because I mean this is what we're all trying to wrap our heads around, especially on the new regional projects, including the regional tier. 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:26.159 So it's one thing to, you know, put the commitments in a compact and then also to follow up with governments to see, hey, you had promised a tariff reform, you know, by the end of 2025. 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:27.440 Where is that? 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:36.000 Um hey, you had promised a new regulation on grid encroachment from inequality operators by the summer of uh 2026. 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:37.679 So the follow-up is really important. 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:43.120 But what's even more important is that there are for each government there are different ways to get where they want to go, right? 00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:48.799 I mean, so first of all, there's a huge variety of governments when it comes to the role of DRE. 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:51.120 And some governments with a very good reason. 00:14:51.200 --> 00:15:05.519 There are certain countries in West Africa, for

example, including Togo, that actually where grid electrification is really important because Togo, because of its geography, is very prone to be much more ambitious on the grid than other countries that have huge rural areas like Nigeria, for example, right? 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:07.600 So there's no boilerplate strategy. 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:18.080 So for us, it's really important when we develop regional programs to leave a fair amount of flexibility between the different technology solutions and also between the different tendering solutions. 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:25.440 And so one example is the mix between DRE and grid, and even within DRE, the mix between mini-grid and off-grid. 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:35.200 Well, knowing that the optimal solution that we are really pushing now is to let the private sector decide what the optimal technology is for a given village is and not to second guess the technology. 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:41.279 So for mini-grid operators, this means that you sooner or later in West Africa won't be able to bid alone anymore. 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:54.240 You'll have to team up with other technology providers to be able to provide a continuum of DRE technologies in a given village rather than just oversizing a mini-grid and connecting everyone and their grandmother to the mini-grid, which is a very expensive solution. 00:15:54.480 --> 00:16:00.559 But also, you will have to give governments the choice between different market scaling instruments. 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:12.960 And this is particularly important in West Africa, where you have the francophone countries in the civil law tradition and the anglophone countries mostly in the common law tradition that have completely different approaches to scaling markets. 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:19.519 So the francophone approach is very concession-driven, whereas the other approach is very license-driven and much more open. 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:42.480 And both approaches, there is no silver bullet, both approaches have their pros and their cons, which is really important is to give countries the possibility to follow their own way, to cook their own soup with their own ingredients, but then to also compare continuously what works best and what is the fastest approach, and to find ways to make countries join and reach critical economies of scale. 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:55.039 And so this is the third role where regional projects are really important because a lot of the countries in West Africa have markets that are too fragmented and too small to really attract large-scale private sector investment. 00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:57.360 So you have to help these markets to consolidate. 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:06.000 And so one way, and I'll stop here, one good example of doing so, is to organize large combined minigrid tenders across countries. 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:16.799 So rather than doing 20 minigrids in Liberia and 30 minigrids in Sierra Leone and another 10 in Chad, you could do hundreds across several countries in a single tender with different lots. 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:30.400 And especially if you want to do that across francophone and anglophone countries, it takes a fair share of harmonization of regulatory standards, which is not, as Nico's team you know, is not exactly uh a pedestrian challenge, but it can be done. 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:37.200 All right, James, before we go into East Africa with the same question, let me get uh Lamida's feedback first. 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:48.960 Lamida, is the private sector ready to deliver on the demands that regional Dare's is opening up in West Africa? 00:17:49.279 --> 00:18:00.400 Do we have enough mini-grid companies which are willing to deliver also solar home systems or team up with solar home system players and team up with mesh grid players? 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:11.200 And are they willing to basically roll out the technology across various countries at once and at the scale that regional DAES is expecting from them? 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.759 The simple answer to that is yes. 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:21.440 Now, obviously, if we compare what the ambition is against what exists today, it's quite scary. 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:31.279 You know, however, we've seen a strong evolution of the sector where we went from sort of experiments and you, Nico, are a pioneer in this in this sector. 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:39.759 You've seen various iterations of business models of types, and we've started to see companies in sort of where it innovate or divorce. 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:48.640 So, yes, we have companies now that uh understand the business, they can build it in their sleep, but need the capital and need the policy environment to achieve. 00:18:48.960 --> 00:19:03.119 And I would say that maybe the number that we currently have may not be able to achieve the target, but we've also seen a SWAT of local African-owned companies that are emerging as part of the initial Nigerian education project and other projects that have come up. 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:05.680 So to answer your question very simply, yes. 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:27.359 Now, in terms of multi-technology, I I love the concept of the regional deaths, which is you know not being overly prescriptive of the technologies that should be adopted, where I think we've learned enough in sort of natural education planning, in site selection to know what works best and what can achieve the viability in the respective locations. 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:29.440 So we started to see that emerge. 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:44.559 So if you look at a company like Anka Madagascar that is sort of partnered with an organization called Moon to basically work hand in hand to provide solo home systems whilst they figure out the financing required for mini-grids. 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:48.799 And then, you know, sort of it's sort of an innovative model where we're seeing companies working together. 00:19:49.039 -->

00:19:54.640 Some companies are sort of fully integrated where they're providing both solo home systems, mesh grids, and mini-grids. 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:59.440 And then some companies are starting to adopt the uh Anchor business model. 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:15.279 So not just PUE, but we're seeing companies that sort of power in a PPA-esque style, where they achieve a PPA with uh an Anchor business that consumes perhaps 40 to 60 percent of the power, where the residual power goes to the community. 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:21.839 So if we consider uh the state of the market today, we have companies that can achieve it at the scale. 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:38.160 But what is needed is uh continuous innovation in technology, rapid scale in capital mobilization, which I believe with the support of the ASEAN and the regional DS programs, we will be able to achieve and then a strong government-enabling environment. 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:39.279 What does that look like? 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:51.200 Adopting uh regulations that are able to protect the investment, adopting cost-effective tariffs aligning with the various standards, for example. 00:20:51.359 --> 00:21:01.039 The Africa Forum for Utility Regulators has a regulatory tool, which we started to see countries adopt, and a tariff tool, which we started to see countries adopt. 00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:11.839 So if we adopt those standards, which makes it much easier to build the regulations and adopt it or adapt it to their own local circumstances, we will achieve the targets. 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:13.680 Thank you, Lamida. 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:19.359 Uh James, do you want to provide the East African perspective and introduce the Ascent program? 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:20.400 Yeah, sure. 00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:27.359 I want to first come back to something you said in your initial question, Nico, about coordination and almost the effect that these compacts are having on that. 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:32.720 So in each of the countries where we operate, there's always a donor coordination group, right? 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:37.440 And in my experience, these donor coordination groups, you know, they're hit or miss. 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:40.400 In some countries, they work really great and there's very close collaboration. 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:43.440 In other countries, you know, it's sort of like a monthly check in. 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.799 Everybody says what they're working on, they say thanks, great, see you next month. 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:54.960 I think with the compact, we now have a common set of actions that we can all rally behind. 00:21:55.440 --> 00:22:02.640 So if the Germans are providing technical assistance to the regulator on the tariffs, Then and that's part of the compact, then that's great. 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:13.839 We'll make sure, right, that through our technical assistance to the Ministry of Energy, that the tenders, if it's a tender approach or the results-based grant program, is linked up with that tariff discussion. 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:19.519 You know, again, this is kind of coming back to this idea that Mission 300 is a different way of doing business now. 00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:25.519 It really has provided these anchor points that the different coordination groups can rally behind. 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.920 So maybe setting that aside for a moment, it's just, I think, something I've noticed. 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:36.240 In Africa East, the primary way that we are contributing to Mission 300 is the Ascent program. 00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:40.480 So the Ascent program was actually launched pre-mission 300. 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:55.279 It's a$15 billion program, of which$5 billion is from IDA, and an additional 10 billion is coming from development partners, foundations, and the private sector to connect 100 million people to electricity by 2030. 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:05.279 When this program was launched at the end of 2023, it sort of raised a lot of eyebrows in a good way among the senior, very senior management at the bank. 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:21.519 They said, wow, here we have a regional program that's extraordinarily ambitious in an what had previously sort of been a niche space, the energy access space, that is actually contributing a significant result for the region. 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:32.880 And so it was actually one of the catalysts for launching Mission 300, because if Ascent can do 100 million by 2030, let's build on that and see if we can get to 300 million. 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:34.559 So how are we doing it? 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:40.960 Ascent has country verticals and regional horizontal programs. 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:46.559 So the country vertical projects are what you would think of as a standard World Bank operation. 00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:50.559 We often have an investment part and a technical assistance part. 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:59.920 But what makes it different under Ascent is that each of the projects pick from a standard menu, basically, of activities. 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.839 So there's the building out infrastructure on the main grid. 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:12.319 So not grid scale generation, but building out distribution networks, doing grid densification, basically adding new connections on the main grid. 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:23.039 And then supporting the private sector DRE sector to connect everybody that's not on the grid or shouldn't be connected to the grid for cost and time reasons. 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:26.319 And then there's a third pillar, which is policies, regulations, and planning. 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:33.599 So all of the Ascent projects have some element of these three investment and programmatic activities in them. 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:38.400 Then we have a suite of horizontal regional programs. 00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:48.880 So there's a regional technical assistance facility that can provide technical

assistance to companies, to investors, and also to governments to help develop pipelines of projects. 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:59.519 There's a regional equity facility called Zafiri, which was just recently launched, and that actually covers not just Africa East, but also Africa West. 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:02.960 So that's a continental-wide equity platform. 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:13.279 And then we have a regional line of credit, which is implemented by the Trade and Development Bank, which provides debt to distributed renewable energy companies, including minigrids. 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.519 And we have a regional results-based grant program. 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:20.640 Let me pick up on the regional results-based grant program because there's an important nuance here. 00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:24.640 And it kind of marries the matrix approach that we're taking, right? 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.359 The country verticals and this horizontal program. 00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:29.119 And it also brings in the coordination piece. 00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:30.079 So it's all linked. 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:38.559 So this regional results-based grant program is open to DRE companies, including Minigrids, of course, that are operating in Africa East. 00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:41.200 But it is intended to fill the gap. 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:57.920 So if you want to build a mini-grid in Uganda, for example, and there's no results-based grant program for mini-grids in Uganda, the regional results-based grant program can step in and provide those results-based grants to you in order to help you build the mini-grids. 00:25:58.480 --> 00:25:58.799 Okay? 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:14.079 So it really the objective is to make sure that if you are operating as a DRE company in Africa East, we are at least putting solutions on the table for you that cover debt, equity, results-based grants, and technical assistance. 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:15.039 Sounds great. 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:19.599 So now it also becomes clearer why there are two programs. 00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:28.319 Because you have different starting conditions in West Africa compared to those governments and countries in East Africa. 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:38.960 Whereas some countries in West Africa, like Nigeria, like Sierra Leone, like Senegal, they are very much advanced in mini-grid deployment. 00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:47.839 Whereas there are also some countries in East Africa, like Burundi and some others, that are a little bit behind. 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:54.799 So why did you make the split between East and West and not advanced versus a little bit behind? 00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:57.680 Yeah, I mean, Nico, you you that's exactly right. 00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:14.960 But there's another very important factor that actually led to these two different approaches between ascent and regional layers, which is if you look at the access gap in West and Central Africa compared to East Africa, you'll see that in

East Africa, the access gap is a lot more distributed. 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:23.839 So basically, if in East Africa and the Bank's East Africa region, which by the way also includes the DRC, that's an important detail to not forget. 00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:30.000 I think you have to go to at least 15 countries to get to 70% of the total access gap. 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:37.039 If you do that same exercise in Africa West, I don't remember the exact numbers, but 70% is a lot less countries. 00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:38.240 I think it's around five countries. 00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:44.240 So basically, in Nigeria plus the large cyber countries, you already have 70% of the total access gap. 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:53.759 That in the past had the consequence that in West Africa, the bank was a lot more opportunistic in a sense that we really focused on the large access gap countries. 00:27:53.839 --> 00:28:09.039 So Burkina Fazo, Niger, Chad, Mali, and Nigeria, with very large long-term commitments, individual national programs that really push the access agenda across grid and off-grid solutions. 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:14.240 And then M300 came along, and we noticed that, well, this opportunistic approach isn't going to cut it. 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:22.640 We need another business model for all these smaller, more fragile countries that not only are small and fragile, but very fragmented regulatory systems that are very different. 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:32.319 So you basically, as a mini-grid operator, you have to reinvent the wheel every single time you move from one small West African country, let's say Sierra Leone, to the Central African Republic, for example, right? 00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:34.960 Completely different regulatory frameworks. 00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:40.640 So there's a clear need to harmonize these frameworks and create economies with scale. 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:51.599 And this is this additional challenge that we were put once M300 came along, because we couldn't just opportunistically focus on the large countries and just put more money on our big country-level programs. 00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:58.160 We needed to invent, in a sense, a new regional way of doing things and pushing the access agenda across West Africa. 00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:01.119 And that's the big difference between Ascent and regional Dayers. 00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:02.160 All right. 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:02.720 Good. 00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:10.400 Now, so let's break it down a little bit more and make it more tangible for mini-grid developers and operators. 00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:20.640 When can these companies expect those two Ascent and regional Daes programs to be ready for implementation? 00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:29.279 So at least for Ascent, I think at last count there were 14 or 16 countries that now have an active or approved national program. 00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:37.119 I would say conservatively, about half of them have started to implement in the Africa

East Doctor. 00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:43.519 And the regional line of credit, so the debt facility, is open for business. 00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:48.559 And we're hoping to scale up the regional results-based grant program as well. 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:49.680 So stay tuned. 00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:54.240 And as soon as we do, because we have we ran a pilot phase, so we have all the systems in place. 00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:58.559 As soon as that additional financing comes through, then we can start rolling with that. 00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:01.119 So really it's country by country, right? 00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:06.559 But in I would say in in many of the countries in Eastern Africa, we have programs that can support you. 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:08.319 Lamida, is that true? 00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:13.440 Are mini grid companies rolling already, or are they still waiting for something to happen? 00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:18.160 What I would say is that what is needed is not so much that a program. 00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:19.759 It's more the pace. 00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:23.119 You know, how quickly can we deploy the capital? 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:28.400 We have a framework where we say the volume, the speed, the efficiency, and the impact. 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:36.000 So, in terms of you know, how much is available, and then how do we move from committed capital to dispersed capital? 00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:39.440 I would say this honestly, that we are also looking inwardly. 00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:45.839 What are the things we as an industry need to do so that the perception of risk is changed or we upskill ourselves? 00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:55.680 So there's a lot of conversations inwardly, leveraging our mini-grid CEO roundtable around joint ventures, consolidation, multi-technology approaches. 00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:57.119 So that's that's one thing. 00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:11.440 But on the side of what is expected, I would say if we have more money dispersed, as much money dispersed as committed, or a less of a divergence between what is committed versus what actually gets into these companies. 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:15.680 More flexible types of funding, I guess more equity into the sector. 00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:18.720 So we're encouraged by the emergence of the theory. 00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:23.599 But I think we need more of the theories, or as a theory, the fund itself to be scaled up. 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:30.000 And I guess more technical support to ensure that these companies can absorb the capital as much as possible. 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:35.440 And I'll talk a little bit more about what we're doing in our own sphere of influence to help with that. 00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:39.200 The pace of the deployment, so due diligence moving a lot quicker. 00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:56.079 So even at the RBF level to the equity or the commercial capital level, how do we ensure that the investors are speaking to themselves and so that we can sort of potentially grandfather due diligence or portfolio type due diligence or things like that? 00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:02.319 So more innovative approaches to due diligence in terms of the efficiency, I think that also speaks up to the speed. 00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:09.359 But it's like how do we ensure that as we identify bottlenecks along the value chain, we address them as quickly as possible. 00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:17.359 And then the impact is obviously how do we make sure that we're impact focused and not just counting sort of boxes for exercise. 00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:20.799 So we're encouraged by all that is happening right now. 00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:25.920 But I guess you know, being all of a twist, we're asking for more to be done as quickly as possible. 00:32:26.400 --> 00:33:08.960 So, James, coming back to you, if I understand you correctly, what you said was basically the structure is there, the willingness of the government is there, but we still run the risk of basically run Mission 300 against the wall by all these nitty-gritties of implementation procedures that are country-specific and that basically need to be negotiated between the Ministry of Finance, who needs to finally sign the loan agreement with the World Bank, without any well, short-term cash flow that can cover these loans, right? 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:12.640 Other than tax from other parts of the country. 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:16.240 And this basically can hold back implementation. 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:22.160 Can I just can I yeah, let me let me come in here because I think this is a super critical point. 00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:29.680 There's a big difference between having a program approved by the World Bank Board and getting money to start to flow. 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:32.000 And it's actually a perennial challenge. 00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:35.920 You know, there's a lot of bureaucracy and steps on both sides, right? 00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:46.480 Internal to the bank, but also external on the government side, to put in place all these different elements that you need, for example, to set up a well-functioning results-based grant program. 00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:53.279 What we're trying to do more and more, at least internally, is you know, not reinvent the wheel every time, right? 00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:57.759 We all know kind of what an IVA should be doing, right? 00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:03.279 So we don't need to spend a lot of time rehashing what an IVA should do in the terms of reference for that. 00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:08.320 There are certain things that we can do internally that are that should just be copy and paste or highly replicable. 00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:11.760 But the politics behind it is often tricky. 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:18.400 I mean, maybe this is controversial, but like for many of these programs, the government is borrowing from the bank. 00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:25.679 So it's not free money, borrowing from the World Bank, and then we're

asking them to give it away for free to private companies. 00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:29.760 That's not you know a breakfast table conversation. 00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:31.519 Yeah, sounds great, have a great day. 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:31.920 Right? 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:34.639 I mean, these can be really tough negotiations. 00:34:34.880 --> 00:35:00.719 And even if it is, for example, like an IDA grant to a very low-income or you know fragile country, the conversations can be really fraught because maybe one technology is favored over another, maybe one approach is favored over another, but what we can do as the bank is bring that international experience and say, if you want to do it this way, here's our experience doing that way, and it's going to set you back three years. 00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:01.599 Exactly. 00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:05.920 I really like what James just said because this really summarizes the key challenge. 00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:13.599 There are certain issues when it comes to mini-grid that can't be solved just by speed, scale, and financial engineering. 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:24.159 There are certain structural issues that are clearly embedded sometimes in and like really deeply ingrained politics that you can only solve through the conversations that happened around the compact. 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:30.159 So, for example, I mean, we just talked about the format with which tenders are being done, right? 00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:36.320 If you'd want cross-country tendering, there will have to be some give and take between francophone and anglophone countries. 00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:38.320 There has to be adaptation on both ends. 00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:46.880 If you really want productive, economically viable mini-grids, you can't just throw more money at the problem or just make the mini-grids bigger. 00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:52.639 If mini-grid operators lose money per every customer, then they'll just going to be lose more money if you extend these mini-grids. 00:35:52.719 --> 00:36:05.920 So you have to find a way to allow mini-grid operators to either only connect the part of the village that can run economically viably or to team up with other technology providers to extend the grid with using other technologies. 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:07.599 This is something that we see in Nigeria. 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:08.159 Sure. 00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:16.480 Now, coming back to my initial question, like when do you think mini-grid companies can start applying for grant funding? 00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:20.079 And when do you think they can actually start building? 00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:21.599 It is country by country. 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:24.400 So let me just tick off a few that I'm aware of. 00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:33.280 In Madagascar, we have a results-based grant program that has already exhausted, I believe, the allocated budget for mini-grids. 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:34.639 So it got off the ground. 00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:40.880 We worked with the big companies, we worked with the smaller local companies, so we had a fairly successful RBF program there. 00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:45.440 And the intention is to continue that with a follow-on World Bank program in Madagascar. 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:50.639 In the DRC, we have a results-based grant program which includes mini-grids. 00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.199 There was an initial call for proposals. 00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:56.639 It was exclusive to existing mini-grids in the DRC. 00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:02.880 The idea was let's test out the internal systems and processes with you know mini-grids that already exist. 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:05.519 So helping them extend and densify their grids. 00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:09.360 But the very next window that's going to be open is for new mini-grids in the DRC. 00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:11.039 So that's under the agree project. 00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:19.039 I think it's also important to remember that Ascent is not the entire universe of energy access projects that the bank has. 00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:31.360 So those two countries that I just mentioned, we have the DESTEM project in Madagascar, so it's not Ascent, that launched this results-based grant program for mini-grids, and the Ascent program is coming in to continue that. 00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:36.559 In DRC, we have the Agree project, which has this results-based grant program for minigrids. 00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:48.000 We have the regional results-based grant program, which was open to minigrid companies, and indeed we had one of the leading mini-grid companies apply and is slated to you know start deployment any day now. 00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:52.480 So there are programs that are moving, and there are others that are moving a bit more slowly. 00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:55.519 Nico, to answer your question for Africa West, when are we ready? 00:37:55.760 --> 00:38:00.079 Africa West, as I already mentioned, we have large ongoing national programs already. 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:07.679 I mean, Nigeria is the most important example that we we are, I think, now in the RBF facility at 100,000 payments per month. 00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:13.920 So this is really, it's it gained cruising altitude very rapidly, the Nigeria program. 00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:23.679 But we also have programs in Niger, in Mali, in Chad, and in Burkina Faso, who are fairly large and are now finally gaining traction. 00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:37.199 But the real game changer for the smaller countries that I mentioned will be the regional dayers, which is going to the board in the next couple of weeks and which will be ready to make first disbursements in autumn of this year, so towards September, October. 00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:38.239 All right. 00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:52.480 James, you earlier mentioned Safiri, which is the equity vehicle under IFC supporting mini-grid companies, for example, in acquiring equity, right? 00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.119

They're basically providing equity to the mini-grid companies. 00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:03.119 So now I recently talked to Safiri managers and they said, yeah, ticket size is at around 15 million US dollars. 00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.920 They prefer to take a majority stake. 00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:11.360 They can go and prefer to go in partnership with other equity providers. 00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:16.400 So we're talking already about a ticket size of 30 million US dollars. 00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:23.360 Now, if both want to take, or one has already taken a majority stake, now how much is left for the mini-grid company after all? 00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:25.519 That's an excellent question, Nico. 00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:31.679 And I and I think we've we've already also taken steps to engage the promoters of the theory. 00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:34.880 I guess I echo the views of what you said. 00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:37.599 Now I believe it depends. 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:38.719 I think it's relative. 00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:49.519 Some companies within our membership, for example, are starting to explore the this consolidation where they some sort of merge or joint venture. 00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:58.159 I think the devil's in the details, and one of the things we're looking to do is develop a blueprint for what that looks like in collaboration with the Zafiris now. 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:06.639 Whether they're willing to give away 50% or a significant chunk of their funding, I think uh remains to be seen. 00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:12.159 And I think that there's a negotiation to be had uh with Zafi on what that looks like. 00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:16.880 On Zafiri, I I wanted to say, and this is really important, Lamid, you've you've said this. 00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:20.320 There's not enough game in town on equity investment in general. 00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:22.960 And the World Bank has identified this problem pretty early on. 00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:30.559 So there's actually not just Safiri, there's also the patient capital facility that's been implemented by Africa 50 that has a very complementary approach. 00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:33.039 Nico, you put your finger where it hurts the most, right? 00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:41.840 You see, Safiri really fills a very important role that was completely missing, but it still has a fairly large ticket size for smaller companies. 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:44.400 And this is exactly where the PCF comes in. 00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:57.119 The PCF, unlike Safiri, doesn't follow the um the investment platform or the permanent equity vehicle, which is the correct term of Safiri, which makes direct investment, often takes a majority stake. 00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:01.599 But the PCF has a fund of funds approach that basically can fund other funds. 00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:11.199 It could even theoretically invest in Safiri, but that would make very little sense because the key the key opportunity that PCF is following on is much smaller investments. 00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:13.920 So it's the below 10 million investment. 00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:25.440 And it is really focusing on creating new specialized vehicles that focus on certain geographic areas, starting with Nigeria and starting with the ASF, which is a pan-African fund. 00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:33.280 And the other detail is that a lot of the funding that the bank put into Safari is earmarked either for East Africa or for certain countries. 00:41:33.440 --> 00:41:36.960 And what the PCF is doing is really pan-African funding from IDA. 00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:42.880 So it's been a complicated process because both of these vehicles are completely new to the World Bank. 00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:52.239 But it's we can already tell that it filled a very important need because we have a lot of demand in terms and a very rapidly growing pipeline, investment pipeline. 00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:54.239 But Nico, what you said is critical. 00:41:54.400 --> 00:42:01.360 We have to make it possible to reach smaller ticket sizes in an economically viable way. 00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:05.840 And we need a variety of approaches and not just there's no silver bullet in equity investment. 00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:07.519 There's no right or wrong way to do. 00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:09.039 All right. 00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:10.239 New subject. 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:12.719 What about public infrastructure? 00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:20.480 I'm talking about health centers and schools in regional Darius and in Ascent, respectively. 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:22.400 How are you treating those? 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:30.079 Because there is definitely great demand by governments to also get those public infrastructures electrified. 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:30.960 Yeah. 00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:38.480 So they're definitely part and parcel of the Ascent program and the Ascent strategy, particularly on a country-by-country basis. 00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:43.039 We're trying to work as much as possible with the energy as a service model. 00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:49.760 So basically moving away from the traditional EPC plus two years or three years of OM. 00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:53.039 I think that leads to a lot of you know broken systems over time. 00:42:53.599 --> 00:43:01.199 So there's definitely an opportunity there for minigrid operators to extend into this sort of business area if they're not already involved. 00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:16.480 Maybe another thing to say is whenever we are supporting a mini-grid, we're aiming to connect all of the public infrastructure in that area, whether it's by a regular metered mini-grid connection or a standalone solution. 00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:19.280 So that I think is another area that we're working on. 00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:30.800 And maybe one other thing to say is that at least under some of the programs that we have in Ascent, we're trying to where it makes sense, stack digital and energy connectivity. 00:43:31.119 -->

00:43:33.440 And this can be a real coordination challenge. 00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:46.079 But in Madagascar, we're trying to have a program where for every public education or public health facility that's targeted by the project, we're providing not just an energy solution, but also a digital connectivity solution. 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:50.880 So that that school or that health clinic has high quality internet and high quality energy. 00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:55.920 And both of those services would be provided under an energy as a service model. 00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:56.719 All right. 00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:00.880 I mean, we learned a lot from Africa, right? 00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:07.840 So the energy as a service model evolved from experiences that we made in Uganda and Kenya and really important lesson learned. 00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:17.199 So in a sense, we're replicating these lessons learned in West Africa and under regional areas, we have a big component to roll out the energy as a service concept. 00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:20.320 Same thing also when it comes to digital energy co-delivery. 00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:24.800 This is really critical, especially when it comes to the actification of health centers and schools. 00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:31.679 The added value of each kilowatt hour really grows exponentially once you also support digital connectivity, of course, right? 00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:34.320 So this is this is an important add-on. 00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:50.159 But what's really important also to underline is that the kind of paradigm change that is implied in changing from a logic that is just about financing kilowatts to a logic that is about financing kilowatt hours over the long term. 00:44:50.400 --> 00:45:04.639 This is a game changer also for governments, and this is where the complex play a really important role because ultimately that means for the government that we will stop trying to pretend that we can solve a long-term operating problem with a short-term CapEx subsidy. 00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:05.440 What does that mean? 00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:15.119 That means that if you want operators to actually stick around and maintain and operate the systems that they're building, you need a completely different incentive scheme. 00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:23.679 You need an incentive scheme where you don't just dole out big CapEx subsidies in the beginning and then hope that operators made enough money to stick around in the long term. 00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:28.880 I'm exaggerating here, but this is basically the simplified version of the traditional approach. 00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:50.320 But you work with governments to find a scheme where governments enter into a long-term commitment with a private sector operator, pretty much like a PPA and the in the grid connected solar space, to commit themselves to providing a monthly fee for each health center or school over a very long period of time, ideally 15 to 20 years. 00:45:50.559 --> 00:46:05.760 And then the World Bank's added value is not just providing subsidies, capex subsidies, but providing a scheme where we can backstop the obligation of the government to make this long-term commitment and to make these monthly payments over a long period of time with the instruments that we have. 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:19.679 And MIGA, we're working very closely with MIGA to develop new instruments that can backstop the government's obligation, the government's payment obligation over a longer amount of time, and then by extension, finally mobilize real capital investment. 00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:27.599 Because the key thing here is that the more RBF we spend on CapEx, the least private sector investment we will have on CapEx. 00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:33.360 So, in a sense, CapEx subsidies are crowding out private sector investment rather than crowding it in. 00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:51.920 And the game changer in here is that if we can credibly backstop government obligation over longer term, then private sector operators can go see their local banks and say, hey, I don't only have signed a long-term service agreement with a government, but I also have a meager guarantee backstopping the payments over 15 to 20 years. 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:56.800 Now please provide me with the loan that I need to electrify these 50 health centers. 00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:58.000 All right. 00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:00.880 Thank you all for your contributions. 00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:04.639 Now let's have final statements and then close the session. 00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:05.679 Who wants to start? 00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:23.039 I think the conversation has shown one thing very clearly, and I've already underlined this during our exchanges, is that I really strongly believe, and this is what also recent experience is showing, that especially when it comes to further developing the mini-grid industry, there is no silver bullet. 00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:31.199 And most importantly, scale and financial engineering will not solve the structural issues that we have to focus on. 00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:46.639 And I think M300, with its compacts and the firm government commitment to the regular reforms that it takes to really bring mini-grid location to the next level, is all about solving these tough political structural problems together. 00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:59.360 And this is where the mini-grid industry also has to contribute and to be very vocal when it comes to governments respecting the timelines and their promises for these tough and hard reforms. 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:15.840 And I must say that over the past two years, I really enjoyed this journey and especially the exchanges with mini-grid operators who experienced in this challenge and who have provided the World Bank with a lot of great ideas to solve the structural challenges that also the World Bank has created. 00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:20.400 And one of the most critical examples, I mean, we've

already discussed this, is RBF. 00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:29.039 The way that we deliver RBF needs to really follow and feed the industry and solve these structural challenges. 00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:32.800 And the other big challenge is that the way that we organize tenders. 00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:40.239 I just mentioned that tenders alone for starters are not a silver bullet, especially minimum subsidy tenders take a lot of time to develop. 00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:46.480 So we have to actively look for more developer-driven market development models that don't depend on tenders. 00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:53.119 And so these are, I think, two prominent examples of the tough structural challenges that the World Bank will have to work as well. 00:48:53.199 --> 00:49:01.840 And I'm really looking forward to continuing to work with Nensis, but also the mini-grid industries for inspiration and support in this really challenging journey. 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:02.400 Thanks. 00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:06.400 Lamita, do you want to say some final words? 00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:07.760 Final words. 00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:09.360 Final words. 00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:19.920 Yeah, so so for us, the critical path is this let's use the momentum from the compacts to start to take more constructive action, which we're doing. 00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:31.760 But the critical path includes one, you know, governments all compact countries should have in place the necessary regulatory and frameworks. 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:47.840 And the tools, we have the tools that can help them develop their regulations within days, like the RFO regulatory tool, the RFO tariff tool that can be used to adopt to quickly generate regulation. 00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:55.280 Now, how we navigate the approvals, I think is probably down to what the complex structures that need to be unclogged. 00:49:55.679 --> 00:50:06.800 We want to see the successful advertisement of funding from the Ascent program, the regional DAS program, and the Nigeria Daes program, to name a few. 00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:19.280 And then we want to see the Firi really come to the table and the other instruments like the Africa 50 fund really come to the table and we start to see due diligence commencing and deployments moving. 00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:23.920 And then we see a role for ANDA as a sort of a voice for the private sector. 00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:27.760 We started to take steps on our own path to support these companies. 00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:34.480 For example, our CFO placement program, which we've launched in collaboration with CAMCO. 00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:39.599 As a phase one, we're going to provide five CFOs placed with 10 companies. 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:48.400 We've also seen the emergence of the executive placement program by the AFDB Cepha, uh, to name a few, but we need those programs scaled up. 00:50:48.639 --> 00:50:54.800 We're going to be reaching out to the World Bank and other players to support a scaled-up version of these programs. 00:50:55.039 --> 00:51:00.639 And then we continue to leverage data as a tool to inform decision making. 00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:06.239 So that's one of the areas that ANDA will sort of be taking ownership and responsibility for. 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:09.440 But ultimately, we're encouraged by all that is happening. 00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:15.119 But we need more, quicker, efficiently, and at scale. 00:51:15.440 --> 00:51:16.559 Thank you very much. 00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:25.199 So there's a J word that we have only sort of scratched the surface on in the conversation today, and that's jobs. 00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:37.360 We hear this over and over again from our corporate management, but also if you just read the statistics on youth unemployment in Africa and projected youth unemployment in Africa, I mean it's pretty staggering. 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:46.800 I think where there's a really exciting nexus is at mission 300 and at mini-grids. 00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:50.960 Because mini-grids are engines of local economic growth, right? 00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:58.079 They're providing high-quality, productive energy for communities to drive job growth. 00:51:58.559 --> 00:51:58.880 Right. 00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:15.119 And to the extent that we can leverage that intersection in our conversations with policymakers, in our conversations with funders, in our conversations with donors in the private sector, I think it's going to continue to emphasize this pretty critical point. 00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:17.360 So I just wanted to maybe end on that, right? 00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:21.039 I I like to say that you know mini-grids are engines of local economic growth. 00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:34.480 But when you tie that to the jobs needs across Sub-Saharan Africa, and you pair that with this, you know, Mission 300 super ambitious energy access program, I think the results could be pretty exciting. 00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:41.199 We just have to kind of all continue to push in the right direction and cut where we need to cut and advance where we need to advance. 00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:42.000 All right. 00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:42.800 Thanks a lot. 00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:45.039 Thanks a lot, Jan, James, Lamida. 00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:46.559 This was an exciting discussion. 00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:54.960 I think we haven't touched upon all the possible points, but I think we gave a good overview of what's happening right now under mission 300. 00:52:55.119 --> 00:53:04.239 And I'm looking forward to inviting you to a new session again after a year or two to see how things that are currently in the planning have evolved. 00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:04.880 Thanks a lot. 00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:05.519 Thank you. 00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:07.039 Thanks, Nico, for sponsoring. 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:07.840 Thanks so much. 00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:20.159 This episode of the Mini Grid Business has been brought to you by Finances, your one-star chat for sustainable minigrids. 00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:30.079 For more information on how to make mini grid work, visit our website to finance.com to contact us to the links to the show notes.