Pełna transkrypcja odcinka Small Town Monsters w/ Jason Hewlett

interviewing someone who's had these experiences, if you can go with them to where they had it, you get a bet greater sense of of what their experience was like, you know, and and even to see how it's impacted them if even if it's a few years later, going back to these places, right? And then that makes sense too. If you're there you might as well try to investigate at the same time. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah, for sure. What what is it about the Pacific Northwest and I mean I guess BC in general that like why do you think it's it's so concent concentrated to to hear? Because I know there's like there's sightings, you know, in Alberta, the odd sighting, and you get Ontario and and whatever, ⁓ but the vast majority of of them seem to be in BC. And especially around that Harrison Lake area, correct? Yeah. Is there something special about it? Is that and that's going back historically as well, like like a hundred a hundred and fifty years there's stories from that area as well. Yeah, what is it about that area, do you think? Jason Hewlett: I like it's ⁓ I like it's interesting, just having been there, like and did you guys know on the island, I think just the terr it's partly the terrain, like the forests are so dense. Like, you know, we have we think we have pretty serious forests up here in the interior of the Shushwap, but I mean, you you go to Harrison Hot Springs or anywhere on the island and you know, you literally can step two feet off of a trail and you're gone. Like I think so I think that's part of it. So It's the climate. I think it's more hospitable. Like here in the interior, it can get snowy and cold, right? So maybe just the fact Harrison Hot Springs, I think, probably gets hardly any snow, at least lower elevations, right? ⁓ I think it's just it's more suited for if you know something like this exists. It it just probably has more adapted to that sort of terrain. There's the food supply is probably more consistent. ⁓ there's you know, the berries, it's everything just I think is more naturally designed for survival than to other parts of you know the world. Like the prairies would be a horrible place for something like that to try to hide because there's just nowhere to go, you know, where you could hide. ⁓ it's so flat. Yeah, the the when and the wendigo is its own its own, for lack of of a better word, beast when when it comes to that sort of thing. But I I think too also you've got to take into account that these are indigenous stories The Eh-Soteric Archives: All right. Yeah, unless unless it's the when to go. Yeah, yeah. Jason Hewlett: like Sasquatch, right? And so that like, you know, the term Sasquatch was coined because JW Burns was talking with the Shahalist people and he sort of mispronounced what they called them sasquettes. And just in the translation when he was writing his article for McLean's magazine, he called them Sasquatch. So it's like kind of I think it's where the indigenous people were, it's where their stories originated. So that's why I think there's just these accounts that are still happening, you know, to this day in these areas. as well. That's where the people who first encountered these beings lived. So it's just where they start. And I think, you know, you hear other accounts sort of all over the world. Because there are wild man stories everywhere, all over the world, but it seems to really be in areas where there's sort of also this connection to the original people who lived there, if that makes sense. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Well that that kind of leads into one of my other questions, which was gonna be, ⁓ whether you think it is more of a spiritual thing or if it is, you know, a a species. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like I I kind of I I dance between those those theories, you know, that is is it just like a forest ape that's just, you know, there's only a few of them left and and they're just kind of wandering around or is this have to do with, you know, a ⁓ more energetic kind of thing that's happening out there? Jason Hewlett: You know, you know, and I I'm like you, I flip flop on this all the time. I I mean and I know I know a lot of the people that I do I am in contact with, they're they are what to really cryptozoologists. So they're looking at wanting an explanation that fits into the flesh and blood camp. And I think I mean, I come from sort of a like a more of like a with the paranormal s side of things. So I'm open to the concept of there being sort of the spirit of the woods, which is a lot of indigenous people belie say that it is. And that's how it's so deeply rooted into their culture. And I couldn't even do justice to try to tell some of the connections and how it means to what it means to them. But I think to research this, and I know with the the work I've done lately, like on the series, say Sasquatch Quest, is approach it from that flesh and blood perspective. Because I think, you know, it's better to try to rule that out first and then kind of work your way back into something else, if that makes sense. Kind of like do the Occam's razor. So take all the other logical explanations and start trying to to rule them out and then work backwards and see what What you're left with. ⁓ I know people have had account you know, experiences that definitely seem far more paranormal than strictly flesh and blood, but at the same time, people are also reporting very physical encounters with something. So you kind of gotta and there's footprints as well. You know, so so whatever this is, it definitely can manifest itself in a physical form. So I think that's kind of what you have to start with, and then as a researcher, and then kind of work your way. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Right. Jason Hewlett: that makes sense. It's kind of an on the fence answer, but it's kind of the only way I can go at this point. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. No, I g I mean that makes sense to me. And that yeah, I I agree as well. I don't think

it needs to be a black or white thing. I think it can be a nuanced for sure opinion, right? About about how what is going on. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause there are there is physical evidence, so you can't deny that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: Yeah. Yeah, there definitely is, right? And you know, and I've even had experiences where it's definitely felt way more physical than anything anything else. If so you kinda gotta start with that. The Eh-Soteric Archives: What would be your your one ex speaking of that, like your one experience that really stood out as, you know, either one that kind of changed you or just has kind of stuck with you over over the years while you've been doing this? It can either be, you know, while while looking into cryptids or or UAPs or anything else, even what you did before and just strictly the paranormal. Is there one thing that stood out? One story? Jason Hewlett: Well, there's there's a couple. one of them would be just more kind of in the haunting thing. And it was like there's a place here in Camloops called Tronchill Sanitarium. And it's a former tuberculosis clinic that was also like a mental hospital. And when they decommissioned all these places in the eighties, it was just kind of left. And it it's out out out of town. You know, a good twenty minute drive out of town. And it's like its own little city. So it has like the hospitals, it has like, you know, a school, it has like, you a fire hall, laundry facility, and it's all it's All of it, because back then we got a lot more snow than we do now. Everything was connected with a tunnel system underground. And so I was doing research out there because it has a lot, you of course, as soon as it closed down, all the urban legends started in town about it being haunted, and all the people went out there and like, you know, they went into satanic ritual. You know, it just has that kind of vibe to it. And so I was doing some research and I was with a colleague of mine named Donna, and we had kind of been exploring in the tunnel system, and we came out in like the laundry room. And it was late in the day because we went during the day. I'd done stuff out there at night, but we this time we went during the day. And it's like, well, we should kind wrap it up and go back to the car. Should we go back to the car? But do you want to go back through the tunnels or you want to take the stairs and go up above ground and just walk back to the car? And she's like, ⁓ let's go do the tunnels. And so literally we'd walk through this door and it, you know, this doors are kind of, you can just throw them open and they slam shut on their own. So I turned and I grabbed the door and I pulled it open. And I got about this far and it reefed back. Like someone on the other side had grabbed it and pulled back on it. And I'm six one, you know, about one ninety then, maybe one eighty-five. And I was pulled off my feet and I hit the door. And Donna screamed and ran up the stairs and out. And I admit I wasn't that far behind her. And that really that really stuck with me because I'd never experienced anything like that before. Like something actually had a hold of the door and pulled on it. That's the only way that that could have happened. And with enough force to physically move someone of of my size and height. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. And you could fe yeah, you could feel the strength, I would think, in that instance. Yeah, yeah. Jason Hewlett: You could, yeah, 'cause it wasn't like you know, when you some doors stick or there's like a bit of a hydraulic, like you kind of feel a little bit of a you know, resistance, but this was like with force. It's like someone larger than me had a hold of it and just pulled back, like, no, you're not coming back in here, kind of thing, and was for holding the door closed. So that that one really struck with me. It was that was back in two thousand and four. And then most recently, and it's in the first episode of Sasquatch Quest, which relates more to Sasquatch, where my colleague Olivia Aslan and I were going up to this location where people had had These experiences, only to find out later that there'd been kind of like this Bushman recluse up there who was scaring people off. So we needed to kind of go and put to the test whether it was a Sasquatch experience or this this Bushman guy who had been arrested. And we went up there and it was like October, like a couple weeks before Halloween, and it was supposed to just be kind of wet and mild. And we got like halfway up this drive, which is like 90 minutes, 55 kilometers up this mountain, and it started to snow. And just wouldn't stop, but we'd gone far enough that we just wanted to continue and do our investigation. And we went hiking in. We had to stop the hike 'cause the weather was just getting too crappy. And we sort of set up a little base of operations. We're doing this investigation. And we had the thermal camera out and we'd been hearing movement in this stand of trees. Like just these sounds and almost like rummaging around. And with the thermal camera, we trained it on the spot where we heard the sounds and we picked up a humanoid shape. That stood out amongst everything else, especially because it was so cold. And we would get footsteps approaching us. Like it'd kind of walk towards us and then like retreat. So kind of like a slow bluff charge. And the sound was something like like Ollie words it is like it almost sounds like the Predator, like from the movie The Predator. It was like that weird kind of sound. And we were just like, we're in the middle of nowhere. We were two kilometers from the truck. The weather had turned miserable. It was like minus 10. And there was definitely something there. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Jason Hewlett: And it didn't feel human per se. That's the only word I can use. And Ollie is like an outdoorsman. Him and his wife run an outdoor outfitting company, you know, among other things. And he

when he sort of said we should go, it just felt like it was time that we should go because we were alone. There was something there. If the fact that it kept coming towards us and backing off suggested not really hostility, but we didn't feel safe at the same time. So we'd basically retreated. And that was kinda That was those were two things that really stand out. One in terms of like, say, maybe a haunting or ghost, and another thing that is definitely related to the the Sasquatch research I've been doing lately. And that's right. I think I mentioned like a physical presence. You could pick up the shape on the thermal, you could hear it, and you could hear the footsteps in the snow. So that just seemed like there was something pretty solid. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, that's wild. do you think that it's like 'cause I I I kinda wonder if there is sort of is ⁓ like a hostile sort of attitude that Sasquatch has. It is because, you know, some of the indigenous stories describe him as basically like a a watcher of sorts, right? He's sort of is just like protecting the forest. But then you hear these accounts where it's, you know, almost like approaching like a violent, you know, g kind of thing. It it w what's what's your take on that? Do you think he's he's hostile or or if it is a species in general, do you think that they are hostile or that they're just, you know, give like was he just giving you a warning saying like, Hey, like you're in my you're in my territory, watch it. Kind of yeah, claiming this space. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: Yeah, I I think I think that seems more likely to me than it being outright hostile. I mean, like anything, like some out you've got bears that are like pretty chill, and then you've got bears that can be pretty aggressive, I think, depending on the bear, you know, and the circumstances. I'm pretty sure Sasquatch to me would make sense that it's the same way. I mean, in a lot more accounts, like when you hear about like the skunk ape down kind of in Florida, they definitely seem way more aggressive than what you hear about like Sasquatch stories in the Pacific Northwest. So maybe depending on where they live inf influences their behavior. I know I spoke with a researcher named Jason Zackerson and he says it's probably like anything. You've got a a parent that's a jerk, their kids tend to be jerks, right? You know, and you've got a good parent and the kids tend to be pretty good. So I I I think it works that way. But I I definitely think if you enter into area that they perceive as their territory and say you're behaving in a way that they don't appreciate it, you're just they just don't want you there, they're gonna do things to try to to scare you off. ⁓ The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: think a lot of encounters that that are half are maybe strictly by accident, right? Like you kind of catch them unawares or just happen to stumble across them while they're doing something. ⁓ I think sometimes it's out of curiosity, like they're wondering what you're up to. then in other cases, say like with whatever went on, like we're going back up actually, ⁓ next weekend to the same spot that we were at in that first episode, now that it's summer and we're gonna continue kind of our and go back and research again the way that we had intended to. So I'm curious to see if we're gonna what we're gonna experience this time, if if anything. But I think definitely that night we were there, we were probably attracting attention 'cause we'd done some knocks and we were patrolling around and the weather sucked and there was probably like, What are you idiots doing up here? And I don't want you around here and go away sort of thing. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Right. And he's probably trying to save ya from getting cold. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: Maybe, yeah. Go, just go. What are you doing? You know, we'll take off. ⁓ yeah. The Eh-Soteric Archives: I did get 'cause I don't think there are very many Sasquatching, if any, that are end up with physical violence, are there? Not that I've like maybe historical ones like from long, long, long ago, but who knows how much truth there is to them. But for the most part it's sorry, go ahead. Jason Hewlett: Well no, no, I was just gonna say, yeah, that that's the other side of it, is how much truth like especially those early accounts in the newspapers when they were way more tabloidish, there's definitely a tendency to amp things up. But you hear like Ape Canyon, that was definitely a an account where there was viol where there was violence. you know. So I I think, yeah, I don't think I can't think of anything recently that fits into that category, though. You're right. I don't think there's been any any sort of real violent encounter. Yeah. recently, at least it's been reported. We heard when we were on Vancouver Island, we heard an a an account of someone who had been pulled from their truck by one. But we couldn't get that's all we heard. You know what I mean? It was like an anecdotal story told from someone to someone to someone. ⁓ I wish I could even say where it was. Was it like the Namint area? I'm not sure. But that's just it. We couldn't also find anything else to substantiate that. Right? It was just an anecdote. But that's like the one of the r rare that I've heard that would have been The Eh-Soteric Archives: Wow. Yeah, yeah. Right. Jason Hewlett: I guess even in the last ten years. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Hmm. I was just gonna ask about Vancouver Island. I we mentioned a bit off air and and at the beginning the you came here, was that to film when you were here or just to investigate or for fun or? Jason Hewlett: Yeah, Alex Petakoff and I, like he he's also with Small Town Monsters, and he does a series called Bigfoot Beyond the Trail. And you know, he's traveled all over Alaska and all over the states and everything. And we are working on a project basically called The Journey to Ape Island.

So it's one main documentary that's one of Small Town Monsters' big big films for the year that's gonna come out towards the end of the year, and that's Alex's film. And I'm also doing like a documentary, that companion documentary to it. as well as writing a book about the whole experience. And the book's gonna be called The Legends of Ape Island. So we were there for eighteen days, starting kind of in the Victoria era, and we worked ourselves all the way up to like ⁓ Port McNeil and Alert Bay, just talking to various researchers and experiencers and also going and having experiences of our own ⁓ as well to kind of like, you know, put these stories to the test and and you know, just sort of see if we have any in encounters of our own kind of thing. So it was like a real deep dive into the whole island lore, ⁓ which was fascinating. You know, I think we camped more days than we stayed in any kind of Airbnb or anything, but we really wanted to immerse ourselves in these spots where these stories happen. So which was and I'd only been to the island a few times and the furthest I'd ever been was Victoria. So for me it was really neat to kind of see that island and take in just how huge it actually is. Like it really surprised me. The Eh-Soteric Archives: For sure, for sure. Yeah, we we were actually talking last episode just about kinda how different each part of the island is. You know, the like Victoria has such a different vibe than than Nanaimo, then Tefino, than you know, you get up the further north you go, the more kind of isolated it feels and and yeah, I mean if if there was ever gonna be a it's a good spot to hide, you know. Like Jason Hewlett: It it really is. And that's I think what you know, like I know ⁓ Thomas Steinberg said if there's if Sasquatch exists in his mind, there's no doubt it would be on Vancouver Island. And you think, well, it's an island, like where could something hide? But once you you're right, once you go there, like once you get out of Victoria, even the first I think it was the first full day we were there, like we did all our interviews in Victoria and started heading north and we got to Cowichan Bay. And even in that one hour, the everything just felt different. Like the the forest looked different, the Towns looked a little bit different, and you started seeing just how there's huge spaces between towns where there's just nothing. It's just wild. And you're right, as you're like, you know, Port McNeil, like there's nothing around Port McNeil, like there's nothing there. ⁓ and you just you know, we went to Suquash, I think it's called, which is an old abandoned mine, and we're exploring around there, and like it's just things just feel primeval, and there's so many places to hide, like flying over Strathcona. We did a helicopter flight over Strathcona in the mountains there, you might as well be in the Rockies. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Jason Hewlett: And there's just nothing there. So for something that is

a an undiscovered primate, if there's a population of it, if they wanted to hide, there's so many places for them to hide and hang out. The claquot sound, you know, as well, is just amazingly huge. And just there's places there where they're they're not even logging, because how could you even get in there to log? So it makes sense that a Sasquatch population could exist in these spots. Like there's no doubt in my mind after having been there that it could. If they're real, they they're they're there. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. There's a lot of people that that claim that of having the feeling of being watched on Vancouver. Like no matter where you are on Vancouver Island, if you're just out at night, it feels like something is watching you. Did you get that when you guys were out there? Jason Hewlett: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. I I I think it like it was it'd be there's one place we went like there's certain places I can't say because we don't they're they're research places for people and we don't want to like reveal where these places are. But we spent a couple days somewhere and it just it just yeah, it had this vibe the whole time you're there. Like I you didn't feel uncomfortable or threatened, but you definitely felt like you were being observed. And we had that a feel like almost everywhere I went, I kinda had that feeling, especially camping. 'Cause you're like, you you're in a tent, which just gives you a total false sense of security anyways. But it just felt like every night there could be something around. And we would run audio every night. And there's some nights where you'd go back and review the audio. And you just you'd hear these things that just sounded a bit. It could be anything out there, but it's just I remember one son, I can sort of mention this. It was like We I we used my truck for the most part as transportation as a base of operations and it was parked off to one side and our tents were probably about a good twenty feet away from that. Cause it was a big camp area and it was was in the Nement area. And it just you know when you hear the sound of like a stick along a fence? It felt like something doing that. And I mean it was like three in the morning, and I we Alex was in his tent, I was in my tent, and we were just sound asleep. But it was just like, what what can make that sound other than something physically holding a stick and moving it? across the surface. Bunch of trees. It was really, really an interesting, interesting sound. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, send send some chills up your spine for sure. Jason Hewlett: Especially the next day, you're like, I slept through that? Like that's just nuts. What was that? The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. That would be the hard part, right? Listening to all the stuff that you missed. Like I I don't hear anything when I sleep. I can sleep through a hurricane and earthquake. I have slept through an earthquake. But yeah, but listening to it after and just knowing that's

going on. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: Yeah. Yeah, it it's it's a nerve and then once you hear that kind of that was early on, so like every other night when you go to bed, you kind of the last thing you think of is like, Well, what could happen tonight that I'm not aware of? Sort of sort of thing, right? The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. And that's not your mind playing tricks on you, right? That's actual evidence of of yeah, of of something that you've recorded. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ and you meant sorry, you mentioned your truck, just a little sidebar. You mentioned your truck, because you can tell from your videos, your truck's a big part of your of what you do. Spend a lot of time in it. What's your go-to piece of equipment when you're investigating? Like your number can't live without have to bring it on every on every excursion. I realize there's probably many, but like one. Jason Hewlett: Ha ha ha. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Would it be like yeah, would it be a thermal camera? Would it be this the recorder? Would it be yeah w and you do most of the the kind of stuff yourself, right? You create the the equipment that you bring. Jason Hewlett: We do we do like yeah, we do we either are able to purchase it or like Ollie's a really good inventor. Like at he's good at making stuff. So I mean I mean the obviously the camera, especially with the night vision, even if we're not gonna film something for like an episode, it's just good to have your camera because it's another set of eyes, especially with that night vision and and an IR light attachment to it so you really can cast out into the the woods. audio I think is super important, ⁓ because it picks up again, it's like an extra set of ears and you can just put it down and leave it somewhere like Like I said, every night on the island, we ran every quarter all night. ⁓ which I think is so invaluable. ⁓ the thermal is another big one. I think that's those are I'd say the big three, because the thermal just can pick things up that the eye can't. And it's, you know, especially in those dense bush of like, you know, around Harrison Hot Springs or, you know, on the island, it just it just picks up heat sources. And you can run you can run the thermal too while you while you sleep in your tent. And we've we've done that. ⁓ so I think that's crucial. But the big one, and it's the same as a paranormal investigator, is is your your own body will tell you if there's something wrong. And we you just need to be in tune with it and you know, quiet yourself enough to to pick up on that. Like it's just even as a crime reporter, I remember going to places where someone was murdered, and it just feels different in that spot than you know, 30 feet away. Like you, we just are I think we were When we were like hunter gatherers running around on the plains and just trying to survive, I think we were way way more in tune with that and we've lost something just living in our cities with all our lights and electricity and noise. So that when we go into the woods, I don't think we were quiet enough to really pick up on on things unless you start really spending a lot of time in the bush. I I I don't know if does that make sense? Like that to me it just does. Like we like we've I've I've felt things before I've heard them and seen them. If that The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, and I think they like from what I've everything I've sort of looked into is that they do have well Sasquatch specifically has a big you know, energetic presence i and to to where it can even i interfere with electronics and stuff like that, right? Like have you experienced that where you're I know in the one episode I watched, like your the thermal just like stopped recording in the middle of it. Like, i it's do you think that that has something to do with it? Is it do they have the ability to Jason Hewlett: Mm-hmm. The Eh-Soteric Archives: To to mess with with ⁓ camcorders and things like that or Jason Hewlett: Yeah, like it's tough to say because especially in that one, it was so cold. I think the sometimes the equipment just wasn't able to handle the load. But at the same time we ha we had stuff that was going on. And I've had my camera shut off on me again while doing other it happened it's even in the most recent Sasquatch quest episode when we're up on Morris Mountain or Mount Keenan, as it's also known in the mystery valley around Harrison Hot Springs. We heard a disturbance near where the vehicle was. Pete and I walked by back to check it out and the camera just turned off. Like it For no there's no reason why it should. It I've got a battery pack on it that could run for twelve hours sometimes, or even just the regular batteries can go for six. Why would it just turn off on its own? And that was ideal weather conditions. ⁓ I've had in the shoe schwap area, because our family had a place there, twice over the span of twenty years, I think it felt like just being hit with that fear frequency you hear about, that infra sound. ⁓ One time it was 1996. I was rebuilding the deck on the cabin with these other people. They'd gone home. I planned to stay the the ex that one extra night because I was tired and didn't want to drive. Then it was really quiet. And ⁓ we'd been there four or five days and ate dinner, was fine, cleaned everything up, was fine, was gonna sit down, listen to some music, and read a book. All the hair went up on the back of my neck. I went from completely calm to like absolutely terrified. And in my head, it's like, you can't be here anymore. You need to leave right now. And so I just packed everything up. I loaded it into the truck. ⁓ at that time it was very much a cabin and t before leaving, you had w had to turn the pump off. Otherwise, it could just malfunction. You needed a new pump. Pump was outside under the deck, and that was the longest five minutes of my life walking around the cabin as it was getting increasingly dark, shutting that pump off and running to

the the the the car or truck. I think it was the truck at that time. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: And driving the hour back to town. And I felt that sensation the entire hour drive back to town. It wasn't until I was back in the city that I kind of calmed down. ⁓ flash forward to 2017. New cab in same spot. Had been out there for a few days, was again, was having a holiday, had one more night to stay out there, ate dinner, dusk was setting in, and the same feeling overtook me again. And I knew exactly what it was. Like I remembered it from the previous experience. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm. Jason Hewlett: So I just packed everything up, put it in the truck, didn't have to turn the pump off this time, which was great, locked the cabin, got in, drove. And it the same thing. It took an hour to get home. And I didn't calm down until I was home. And my wife was like, What are you doing back early? And it's like it was just time to come home. That's the only I just the only way I could explain it to her, 'cause she's more of a scully. So this made sense. But that I and I I can't explain that because I grew up at that cabin. I've we sold it in twenty nineteen. So I was going out there The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: It was my late forties when we sold it, so for like most of my entire life. And that's only happened twice. And I can't explain why it would happen. Other than that, is there's Sasquatch strong Sasquatch stories there. The Eh-Soteric Archives: I had a a very sim I lived in Scotch Creek for a year it on on the Like near was it on off the Squilock, Squilock's Anglemont Highway there. Yeah, yeah. and lived there, loved it, and had a very similar experience. Was it lived in a kind of a solo cabin, like a small cabin on a big property, went out night to have ⁓ at night to have a smoke, and this and I'd never felt this before in my life, this overwhelming rush of negative energy and something that was inside my head, but it wasn't me telling me to get out. It was like a deep vo a deep voice. Jason Hewlett: Yeah. Yeah. The Eh-Soteric Archives: saying get out get out and like a wind rush I went inside I packed my stuff up I think a week later and I moved back to Ontario. Not solely because of that there were other things too but and it it's it really scared me. ⁓ and that's probably the most scared I've actually been in in the woods as well. It's interesting that you mentioned the same thing. Something about that area. Jason Hewlett: Yeah, and that would be it is. And that like we were more you know where Talking Rock Golf Course is? I don't know if that would have been there when you were there. But it it's sort of it's it's it would be like a from where you are, it would be about a twenty minute drive. So you know what I mean? So it's like very similar location as well, not that far off. And it's just yeah, it it's that's what it just it. It's like you you've got to go. You're not supposed to be here. And you know The Eh-Soteric Archives: N ⁓ no. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: It makes no sense. And I I went back out like a week later, kinda like, ⁓ shit, something like that's gonna happen again and nothing did. And it took like twenty years for something like that to happen, almost forgotten about it until that sensation struck me again. And it's like, ⁓ I remember this. This isn't good. It's time to go. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Yeah, if it yeah. I I I only had it the one time and definitely felt like an energy to me. I didn't I wouldn't have equated it with a Sasquatch type energy, but I didn't know a lot of those things like what I'm what I'm Definitely definitely felt it. So crazy. I think you yeah, I think you have to be sort of I I mean you have to be open to the energies and receiving them too, right? Like you said, like when when you were really into the paranormal end of things, did you find that those experiences would happen more frequently the more you were researching it and like or like was it always something that kind of like Did did you were you were you always kind of experiencing paranormal stuff or was it something that you really had to like open yourself up to in order to actually start experiencing it more and more? Jason Hewlett: No, no, I I I've had experiences my entire life. So so when these things happen, I'm usually not very frightened by them. Like you know what I mean? And that and they don't really bother me. You know, you'll you'll have moments of being startled, you know, because something happens, but you can c even like even in the house I'm in right now, ⁓ there's like we've had stuff happen in this house for and we've lived here almost twenty years. Like I can remember just sort of hanging out down in the basement. you know, listening to music, waiting for a buddy of mine to pick me up 'cause we did a did a campus radio show at the time and you it was Friday nights at ten. So he'd pick me up just after nine. And I'm just listening to music. And I get the sensation that someone's behind me. So I think it's my wife's come down. And I turn around and there's like this dark shadow shape there. And we stare at each other for a second, it just turns around and takes off. Like it inhumanly fast. You know, kind of just Okay, and went upstairs and just did the due diligence. I said to my wife, it's like, you weren't just downstairs, were you? And she's like, No, why? And I'm like, ⁓ no reason. Just went downstairs again and waited for my buddy to show up. Like it's just you kind of I think this stuff's around us all the time. So I'm not really alarmed by it. But when something happens like that weird fear frequency sensation or the door out at Tronqueel or seeing that shape in the woods, those things stand out because it's not just an energy. There's just something more tangible to you. You are in some way being affected by it. ⁓ and that's where I think this this stuff is way more powerful I think than most people

give it credit for. I don't think it's anything evil or demonic or anything like that or I think it's just this this force is around us and it can it can impact us and and Sasquatch somehow is a part of that. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah, I ha I have this kind of ongoing theory also that as, you know, like we're in this time of whatever call it awakening or whatever, right? People are y the veil is thinning and people are becoming more aware of, you know, the the realities of the world that we live in and and I I think that these things tend to increase during those times. ⁓ and I know there's been like even lately there's been quite a surge of of Sasquatch sightings. I know that like down in Ohio there was a bunch in April. In southern Ontario, there was a cluster of them in the beginning of April as well. And I I just yeah, I ⁓ so I'm I'm trying to kind of connect the dots to to w you know when there's like an influx in say like a w ⁓ awareness or even like a Schuman resonance spike or things like this, that is that, you know, is that when these creatures tend to show up? And and is there a way to correlate between, you know, okay, you know, the the Schuman resonance spiked over the last week and the veil is really thin and then there's a cluster of sightings all of a sudden and then they go away for a while when the energies kind of dissipate. Like Yeah. I d ⁓ what what are your thoughts on on that? Jason Hewlett: I think especially with Sasquatch, like if you talk to any any indigenous person, like they they've been telling stories about it every day and people see it all the time. All the time. ⁓ and I really found that on the island. Like and it was what was so interesting to me, and this relates specifically to the island, is Alex and I would everywhere we went, we'd ask people questions about Sasquatch, even just casually. No one was like ⁓ you're an idiot, or that's just weird. Everyone was like, ⁓ yeah. And then maybe the people talk about it. They're you know, my cousin had a sighting, or we saw this, or you know, or that sure sounds like a Sasquatch story. You know what I mean? Like this people just took it at complete face, and not just indigenous people on the island, like everybody on the island took it completely at face value. And even if they weren't believers, they weren't surprised to hear about it. ⁓ and I've never experienced that with anything ever in my entire life. So I think. I don't know there's anything in particular in terms of energy or stuff. I think it's just people are just now becoming way more open to it. And I think I think the pandemic had a lot to do with that. ⁓ because one, people were probably just ⁓ they were forced to be quiet and and settle down and pay attention just to the world around them. And two, I think it made a lot of people question life and how we were living day to day. Like, you know, before you know, it's always like, you know, you go to school and you get a job. The Eh-Soteric Archives:

Right. Jason Hewlett: And you do your career for your entire life, and you know, then you kind of retire and you die. And, you know, I think that's really a ridiculous way to think about how your life is supposed to be. And I think people started questioning that more and wanting to know more about the world around us. I think that with that came certain openness to spirituality. And then with along with that, things like Sasquatch and High Strangeness and the Paranormal. I think that people are now just so they're when they hear a story like out of Ohio with the Ohio flap and the Ontario flap. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Agreed, yeah. Jason Hewlett: Which you're right. They're both really like back to back almost these things happening. People aren't dismissing it like maybe they were before. People are like, okay, maybe there's something to it and they're start paying attention. I think that's what's going on more than anything else right now. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. I could totally see that as well. I I I agree a hundred percent with your answer. I think it also could add a bit of because everyone's more aware, yeah, everyone's just more open to seeing it, or if it is just an energy manifestation thing because everyone's more open to it and because everyone's talking about it, that's what's manifested, but yeah, yeah. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: That that makes sense as well, right? Like you hear about like always the I don't not that this is what it is, but like the Tulpa theory, like if enough people believe in something, you can make it happen. I think yeah, I think if you're people like, ⁓ I want to have a Sasquatch experience, you know, or ⁓ it'd be cool to see a UFO or or you know, like maybe there's ghosts in my house. I think you're gonna tune into that energy more than for the longest time people like like I I'll to go back to my my newspaper writing experience when I was a crime reporter, which is like 2003 to 2014. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: If I had told anyone I was interested in this stuff, my credibility as a crime reporter would have been completely shot. Cause I I believed in Sasquatch and I ⁓ you I I believed in ghosts and stuff. Now, if I worked for a newspaper, I could probably write a weekly column about it. Cause people are that into it, right? Like there's there's like the travel channel isn't a travel channel. It's a paranormal ghost hunting, Sasquatch hunting channel. And same with history as well, right? It's all about that stuff. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Jason Hewlett: 'Cause people are into it and if people are into it then it sells and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I think, yeah, I think, you know, now that everyone's paying ⁓ into it, they're paying attention to it, they're seeing it more and I think you're right, they could also be just then manifesting that energy more than than when they're denying it and ignoring it. Because if you deny and ignore something, it tends to eventually

just to kind of go The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah, yeah, for sure. ⁓ with with that, do you think that there's so I've I've read that there's like correlations between UAP sightings and and Bigfoot sightings. in your research, is there any crossover there that that you've encountered? Jason Hewlett: I I not not from my research. I know I've heard the exact same thing. I mean I've I've you know talked to people who've said they're alien abductees who said they were on the ship and saw Sasquatch on the ship. You know what I mean? Like you you hear these sort of stories. ⁓ and you have places like Skinwalker Ranch where apparently everything is happening. Like I read George Knapp's book from like I it was that was quite a while ago. It's called I I think it was called ⁓ Hunt for the Skinwalker or something like that. There was a book and then that Jeremy Corbell adapted it into a documentary of his own. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Okay. Jason Hewlett: And you know, there's they have like, you know, scientific evidence of like, you know, strange lights and hairy creatures and large wolves and paranormal stuff all happening. So I think these things could all exist side by side. I again it's like I don't want to go and explain it's like trying to explain big Sasquatch is strictly a paranormal thing. I don't think that's the way to go about it, but you definitely hear of multiple things happening in multiple locations at the same time, like these hot spots. ⁓ I haven't been to one so I haven't had anything like that happen where I could say for certainty. And it you know, ⁓ it's hard to haven't I've only had like one thing that I could call even a UFO experience in my life, so I'm probably not the best person to ask about that sort of stuff. But I I I haven't seen these things exist side by side, but I've definitely heard many people talk about, you know, the will o' wisps in the wood and then they see like a Sasquatch roaming around kind of thing. So The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah, yeah. Huh. Yeah, I know that one was always a weird connection to me. I I never really saw what they had to like wha what does Sasquatch have to do with aliens, but but I have you know, I've ⁓ yeah, same thing. I've I've come across several stories where it's like the yeah, they're always connected, but ⁓ Yeah, I don't know. I wanted to maybe I wanna dig into some other crypta I know we're very Sasquatch heavy, but I know you've also looked into quite a bit into Ogopogo and coming f from that area, ⁓ ha have you had any Ogopogo sightings? Jason Hewlett: Mm. I haven't. Like I you know, that was one of those interesting things when Eli and I were making cursed waters, like I had had nothing. Like, you know, and I'd been to going to Lake Okanagan for like forever. And every time we would go, even as a kid, I'd have to go and look look at the lake and stuff like that. And I even would take my son and go over and go look at the lake, but I've never seen anything. ⁓ but I mean I think

Ogopogo's fascinating. And and t what was really interesting, especially while researching that one again, and it ties into the indigenous stories, is like what people call Ogopogo isn't the traditional monster either. Like to the West Bank First Nations, it's like their water spirit. So it is very it is just a spirit. Like it's very much the lake itself to them. And it'll occasionally manifest itself into a physical form that people have seen. But that's not even what it's called. Like Ogopogo is a made up word. It was created in the Vernon dance halls related to a song called the called the Funny Foxtrot, where they referenced this thing in the in the the lake and to make this rhyme, they just called it the Ogopogo because it rhymed with The Eh-Soteric Archives: Okay. Okay. Jason Hewlett: that so people got a hold of it and they just started started calling it Okopogo. The original name, N's naha eek, I think is what it is. Like it's just, you know, it's not the easiest to pronounce things. So why would you you know you take Okopogo and you'd run with it? ⁓ and you know, because it became so popular, they turned it into like you know, a stuffed animal and a two you know, like a maybe it wrote kids' books about it and all this turned it into a tourism icon. The two vastly different things. ⁓ but Ogop Ogopogo, what people are seeing, is probably, I think, one of the one of the most documented lake monsters in the world. And it's one of the few that has like multiple witnesses to the same sighting at the same time. And it's I think been videoed videoed the most, the most pictures and the most video of it, which I think is really interesting that we've got that here in in British Columbia. Like it's it's huge. I think it's second only to to Nessie, really, in terms of recognition worldwide and perhaps even champ as well. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say and it seems to be a lot of water cryptids that are Yeah. The aquatic ones are the ones where they get picture and video of and it like is and multiple witnesses of the same event. ⁓ I think there's one in Alberta called the Sadie that in Saddle Lake as well. Yeah, yeah. And same thing. There was a like a big Jason Hewlett: Mm-hmm. Yes. The Eh-Soteric Archives: cluster of them in the eighties and it was multiple people seeing it over a few days and the University of Alberta actually went in and did a search and couldn't find anything, but like it was a big deal. And y you don't see the same thing for for the the bipedal hominids for for lack of a better term. Jason Hewlett: Mm-hmm. No, ⁓ other than like the like say something like the Ohio flap where just a bunch of people seem to have these sightings at once. And I think it's because someone hears about it, so everyone's now alert and paying attention. right. But yeah, no, the lake monsters are fascinating. And I like I talking with Ken Gearhardt, who's like, you know, he's been cryptozoologist forever and written many books, and he he actually even says like if you look at all these lake monster sightings and accounts, he calls it the lake monster belt. They're all roughly the same geographical within the same distance of each other geographically. If you look at it on a map. The lakes are very similar, like all long and deep, large salmonid population. So it's almost like there's this area of the planet that's just really good for whatever these things are to live in. Right? So I find that kind of interesting too. And you know, you look like Lake Okanaga, and it does not easily connect to the Pacific Ocean, but it does. So, you know, the Cadburosaurus descriptions are very similar to what Okopogo's description are. So is it the same species that just somehow makes its way back and forth to the Pacific Ocean or not? The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Champ as well, I would think, right? There's can get through the St. Lawrence out to the Atlantic Ocean. Yeah, and the Cadborosaurus, they actually found am I incorrect? They found there were pictures of it. I know they're very old and they dissected something they believed was the Cadburosaurus and there might have been a physical specimen as well. Huh. Like there actually was this, but from like the thirties up at some Yeah, yeah. And then that that's Jason Hewlett: Mm-hmm. It c it could do that. Way back, yeah. Yeah, and I'm not sure what ha what came of that, if anything, in the end either, but The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. It could have just been a deep sea monster that particular one as well, right? 'Cause there's been a few things that have washed up on the beach, but Yeah. Yeah. Well when we did we did ⁓ kind of a like a rough cryp cryptid episode early on when we started the show and kind of went through some of the Ogopogo stuff and and theories and you know, there are like i th there are super old sturgeon that are in, you know, hundred, hundred and fifty year old sturgeon that are swimming around too and and they get to be massive and They'd surface every now and then and bob and weave on the t on top. But ⁓ I I'm sure you I'm sure you saw that like there was like a global news ⁓ piece, like I think it was when was that, twenty eighteen or something like that? And that old couple was were out on a boat and saw like a horned creature that came. Okay, yeah. Jason Hewlett: Mm-hmm. That was twenty twenty-two and we actually interviewed them. We went out on their boat, Eli and I, to the spot where they saw it and took the picture. ⁓ and that thing is to me is really interesting. It sure did create a stir among people too. Like when you look at it, it looks like the statue head of Ogopogo in the park there. Like it has enough of a resemblance with like the nodules on its head, like the horns and the way that it's set up. So And they weren't they weren't out there looking for anything. Like that's what I find really interesting. They got this great picture. Well, they were just kind of out there sailing, and it

was October, and the the there was no one else really out on the water, and theirs was a sailboat, so it wasn't creating any noise. ⁓ and they just happened to see it as they were going by. And in the picture, you can even see what looks like like a a long serpentine neck going down into the water. And what really struck me When Dale, he was a gentleman that was talking about it, like he said, if it was a log it would have been bobbing up and down 'cause you're looking at that point, it's like a couple hundred feet deep. But it wasn't. It was just sitting there just beneath the surface, almost like watching them as they went by. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah, I couldn't explain away that one. It was very it yeah, it had a very kinda like dragon esque gargoyle look to it and and I ca I couldn't yeah. I'll I've never seen a log look like that or Jason Hewlett: Yeah, it's a hard one. Mm-hmm. No, or someone said it was like an upside down crawfish or that it was a duck upside down like no, it doesn't look like anything like that. And a crawfish this thing was like they they describe it as like being three feet across the head. So that's a really big crawfish. You'd see more of those size things. Like it just yeah, it just it is crazy. It didn't make s it it's one of those hard to explain thing, like explain away things in a moment like that. And then when you're out that far, like two, it's the same thing as like Vancouver Island with Sasquatch. When you're The Eh-Soteric Archives: No, no. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: Like how can something exist in a lake? Well, when you suddenly go out in the middle of a lake on a sailboat and you know this thing is like has no really defined depth to it, it seems like this it suddenly it becomes this very massive place that something could potentially survive in. Especially if you factor in it could it could make its way to the Pacific Ocean, you know. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. And when you spoke to that couple, they were still convinced that that's what it was that they saw? Jason Hewlett: ⁓ yeah, they were they you know they they were convinced that it was what they saw. They had they hadn't really the only reason they went to global news is because Dale was like, Well, if it is like some weird deadhead, it's a boating hazard and we should let people know that there's this boating hazard out there in the water. They they've they were never seeking fame or anything like that. Like they just w and they were never interested in in this stuff. Like, you know, the wife, Colleen, had heard the stories 'cause she kinda grew up in the area, but other than that, was they're like the the last people that really cared about having an encounter with something. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Fair enough. Huh, that's cool. Yeah, it certainly didn't seem like they had any reason to make it up or you know what I mean to do it for why would they waste the time, right? Yeah, no, it was just yeah, just ⁓ an old couple trying to enjoy their

day on the water and came across. Jason Hewlett: Yeah. Yeah, last chance to sail before the weather turns crappy, right? 'Cause I remember that October was pretty nice, like October twenty twenty two. It was decent weather and so yeah. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. On your ⁓ and just not trying to get off water or aquatic cryptids, but ⁓ I'm curious, very curious about the Wendig Wendigo or Wendigo Watiko, that that episode that you did. ⁓ what was it like not what was it like researching it, but like it because we we did an episode on it and it was the first that I'd actually learned about it really. I hadn't heard about it much. I'm from the east and it's not just Didn't didn't know a lot about it, but it really freaked me out. The stories about it really you know what I mean, and the fact that it there's actually court case evidence of it being used. You know, can you speak to that at all or or wanna talk about that episode at all or anything that you noticed? Jason Hewlett: Sure. It was, yeah, it was one of those stories. Like I heard about the story, like I mentioned in the documentary, because as a kid, it was in the Incredible Hulk comic. The Incredible Hulk fought the Wendigo. And that's the first time Wolverine showed up. So I was a comic book nerd. So I thought that was I thought, and at the time I thought that's just a really cool supervillain. You know what I mean? And I'd draw pictures of it myself. And it wasn't until later that I'm like, ⁓ crap, this is like a real, a real thing that's that people have heard about. And I think the The what is fascinating about the Wendigo is the fact that it it it is documented in Canadian criminal law as people s saying it as a cause for them to commit horrible acts of murder. ⁓ you know, with the Swift Runner, he murdered and ate his entire family. You know, Jack Fiddler would kill people say because they they were believed to be turning into Wendigos and they needed to be stopped and that's the only way you can stop it. And I think you d you don't hear about like Nessie ending up in in you know criminal criminal law. I don't even think Sasquatch has been blamed for you know what I mean? It really. So it's the only kind of thing where it's there's that real historical documentation to it. And and what is it? Because it up until Algernon Blackwood wrote a book, it was it wasn't a physical thing at all. It was like a state of mind, almost like a mental illness. And there is actually a Wendigo psychosis in, you know, in psychiatry manuals. Is a cause for the way people behave. And it's only really within the Algonquin and Cree people, but still it's there. So it's like it's this interesting intangible thing that's now being called a cryptid. To me, that was just really fascinating to kind of you know, res researching it was really, it was kind of tough because it's it's very dark. So you spend your your days really diving into this dark, dark, dark, dark, dark stuff. And out of all the stuff I've researched and look into, it's the only one that there's just nothing good about the Wendigo. You know what I mean? Like ⁓ there's no belet benevolent Wendigo stories. It's just this thing that either possesses you and makes you kill people or it's this monster that will just go around eating other people and and seemingly forever unless you like carve out it and melt its heart of ice. Like it's just it's heavy, heavy stuff. ⁓ And it was just really interesting to kind of be have the opportunity to research and then ultimately make a make a film about it. 'Cause I wasn't originally supposed to to make the film. ⁓ I'd written the book and small town monsters that had, you know, signed a contract to ⁓ publish the book 'cause I'd they'd published my Okopogo book along with Cursed Waters. That's what they do. They they have a book tie in sort of for one sort of film a year, two films a year. ⁓ and the original person who was gonna direct the film left the company, basically. Or didn't want to make it. And then Seth Breedlove, who's the who owns runs Small Town Monsters and does a lot of the films, he was originally gonna come up and and make it. And then something happened in terms of scheduling and time. And so he's finally like, Do you wanna direct it? Like direct this film. I hadn't directed anything for them before. And I was like, Sure, okay. ⁓ why not? And so I kinda just had had to put this thing together really quickly on on a short timeline 'cause everything was supposed to come out at Halloween and we made that deal in like March. ⁓ And I'd shot some footage while researching the book and that's kind of a lot of the stuff that w that's it from northern Alberta. I'd taken my camera with me 'cause I just like to film anyways. You get a sense of place filming it filming. And I I'd interviewed with the intention of knowing there was going to be a film, but maybe the Eli wouldn't be able to make it up to Canada. We didn't know maybe we wouldn't be able get these people again. So I kind of filmed them as traditional interviews. So able to take that and then I f filmed all the wraparound investigative stuff that we did in the woods and then kind of put it all together. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: ⁓ with my editor Jason Morris. ⁓ so that was interesting. And and I the fact that there was a case near where I live that someone claimed was Wendigo related was a real interesting opportunity to conduct an investigation into something that I don't I don't think ever had been investigated in that way ever anywhere else. I couldn't find anything like that. So the the fact there was a story that we could kind of jump on to and apply our investigative technique to thought was a really interesting opportunity and would work well in the film, no matter what worked out in terms of that that night that we spent, that time we spent in the woods. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah, there the when we did our our episode on it, yeah, it was hard

to find any not like the other cryptids we've talked about. There weren't a lot of stories about modern stories anyway about the Wendigo. It was mostly cultural references or books or movies or things like that. Yeah. ⁓ and we I did we did stumble apost the ⁓ upon the deer man. Have you heard of that one in Alberta? And I Jason Hewlett: No, w no, I don't think I have specifically. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah, it it's we 'cause when we did our episode on cryptids, we try to find a couple that not a lot of people have talked about or there's not as much info about. And that was one of them that I think it was a twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, a bunch a bunch of sightings and then that was kind of it. I was just I noticed it kind of seemed Wendigo like, like in its description and kind of how it creeped up on people, but but other than that, yeah, it wasn't there aren't a lot of of discussions of Wendigo from in the last hundred years really, I don't think at all. Jason Hewlett: Not no, only kinda when it kind of became in popular in popular culture and that was that episode of Supernatural. Kind of really brought it into the forefront again, like the people paying attention. Now it's like, you the the video game Until Dawn has Wendegos it. There's that movie Antlers that has, you know, the Wendigo. And even then a lot of what the modern depictions are is nothing like what the original one. When it became kind of a a more of a monster, it didn't have the the antlers or anything like that. It was just look more like a rake, what we'd would describe as a rake. So The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: somehow the antlers have been adopted into the pop culture of what the Wendigo is. So that's what you know, people see something that looks like it's got like antlers running around in the woods like a deer. It kind of just I think becomes misidentified or people just call it a Wendigo because that's what everyone thinks it is. ⁓ when I was researching it, I did find some cases. Like there's one in Surrey where people claimed they saw a Wendigo in one of the green belts, which thought was really weird that a place like Surrey, which is like this huge Right in the middle of the city, people were thinking they were seeing a Wendigo for a while. ⁓ but yeah, there aren't very many modern accounts. This one up here at Paul Lake was just really odd, and it came to me after I was talking with someone and they they're What's your next book to book about? And I'm like, The Wendigo, and it's like, ⁓ I heard of this, you know, my wife thought she saw something on the side of the road, and the way she described it, it looked like a Wendigo. 'Cause it was standing in a cloak and it had like the the big antlers kind of going up. And so Okay, well why don't we go look into that? Just sort of apply our investigative technique. And it was like there wasn't like a lot of for people who haven't seen the movie yet, like we we went out that we used like, you

know, we used like laser grids and we did EVP sessions and we did the SD's method. And that was kind of we had a trigger object go off too that made absolutely no sense 'cause it was based on changes in heat fluctuation and the temperature hadn't changed at all and it was like right behind me, aimed away from me, and it went off. ⁓ of course I had the was trying to make sure the footage was turning out. So I turned the camera off for like, you know, like 10 seconds to check, and then also all the lights start flashing and all that kind of stuff. ⁓ so that was interesting. But when we were doing the SDs method, which for people who don't know, one person has a spirit box, which is a device that run cycles through AM FM frequencies, ⁓ and can, if you believe it, pick up a voice, a spiritual voice. Because we the big thing is that spirits are believed to be. made of energy and when we die that energy maybe goes into the Earth's electromagnetic field and they can use this device to communicate. So they wear it with headphones on and stand away from the other person who asks the questions. And so they can't hear what the questions are being asked. But they will s say whatever kind of comes across across the spirit box. And we were in the middle of nowhere, there's no AMFM frequency up there. And I'm asking all these questions Nothing's coming through the spirit box. So I kind of stop like I'm ready to quit doing it. And suddenly Ollie, who's the one, the speaker basically, is like, keep talking. So that's what he heard in the spirit in the spirit box. Like, okay. And I so I kind of just went, are you hungry? And he responds with, We are. And then that was all we got. So I don't know what what that was about, but I thought it was interesting that he heard. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: The keep talking came through and I'd stop talking. And then of course the Wendigo is supposed to be f fueled by an insatiable hunger. And so it said we we are when I asked if you're hungry. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah, you got me on that one. I I watched that up. That gave me a little bit of a chill when when he said the we are part. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: Yeah, it was it was creepy being there and hearing him say it. Like and it was like completely dark, you can't see anything, you know, except the light that we had in front of us. That was it. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah, I could could only imagine. And there's not a lot of noise associated with the Wendigo when it approaches either, right? It's more of a a vibe or a mood than it is kind of noise, right? It's not noisy like Sasquatch or or other cryptids can be. So Out West here. Sorry, ⁓ the out west here, there's a there's like a female version of of Wendigo that's ⁓ talked about in indigenous lore here, and she screams. Jason Hewlett: No. The Eh-Soteric Archives: ⁓ She has she she has like when she approaches it's like a a shrill, like shrieky scream kind of thing. But that's the only yeah, that's and it's it's a definitely like a it's a female versus you know, there's more of a masculine kind of frame around the traditional Wendigo. So Jason Hewlett: No, no, no. There is, yeah. That'd be I if I heard a scream in the woods, man, I think I'd be out of there. A scream quite like that. ⁓ no, the one it wendigo's fascinating. I I think in a way it's still like my favorite folk folk story, just because of the complexity to it. ⁓ and that it is again, there's been a f at least two to three court cases in Canada directly related to the Wendigo. And that's just amazing. And I even people said there's a gentleman, I think Vince Lee. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Jason Hewlett: He was on the Greyhound the guy on the Greyhound bus back in two thousand and eight who killed the passenger next to him and basically started eating him and cutting off pieces and putting him in the and he had apparently before going on that bus ride had read an article about the Wendigo and you know, went off. It's it's just it's it's just it's just creepy. Like there's just so much about it that's wrong. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah, it's very creepy. And that Algernon Blackwood guy, when we did ours, like the the story itself is creepy. And then you look into that guy and just when he wrote the story and how it kind of his career took off after that. Like he was the w the first person on television in England. First he was on the first radio broadcast and the first television show in England. And he wrote the Wendigo, yeah. And he's part of the what the order of the Jason Hewlett: Wow. Yeah. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Golden golden order of the Hermetic Dawn. Like a real kinda out there guy. And one of our takes on it was that possibly he was trying to create something. You'd take this story and amplify it and create this terror and kind of create an I guess what it would be an egregore. Yeah. Well, 'cause he was an occultist, right? So he's, you know, trying to actually like seed it into the consciousness. Yeah. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: Mm. He succeeded. That's when it that's when it took on a whole new life. Literally, as a as suddenly this thing that was a a physical monster. Right? So mission accomplished. Because that's all people relate to it now. They're surprised when you they hear that, you know, like Swift Runner never turned into anything. He just ate his family and was like in the end, wanted to be hung because he was so ti he was so believing this thing was kind of come into his prison cell and take him over fully. You know, then he'd be doomed to wander the forest. You know, like it's just it's just The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm. And it Yeah. Jason Hewlett: Yeah, it's just messed up. Like it's just a messed up story. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. It it is like it and I'm sure you see it a lot because of the way that you guys do your interviews, that you you speak to a lot of witnesses and you get a lot of First Nation accounts. So you you and you clearly

understand the historical aspects of of the stories that you're doing. So it's unfortunate to see, and I'm sure you can see it, which I'm now starting to see, how the historical story and then the modern story, how there is a a change, right? And Wendigo is a perfect example of that. It's very different from the historical accounts. ⁓ would you say there's one that's very similar to it? Like what would be the most similar to or what would match most with the historical accounts of of a of a cryptid? Or would all the rest kind of fit that that bill? Sorry, go ahead. Jason Hewlett: I think it's it's tough because even Sasquatch like it like in some like Maybe Sasquatch to a degree, because like they were a lot but not but not. Like I think I think ever all of these stories in some way, shape or form have been taken and just twist not twisted, but just sort of it's like anything over time the stories just gets like like Sask Sasquatch even. But it's Sasquatch is so different from like nation to nation to nation. Like there's the West Bank call it strunitum, and even then it seems it seems more like Sasquatch. It's a it's this being in the woods, but they call it like there's a it's this being in the woods. would occasionally like eat their children. You needed passage to get through the woods, but it was d very much, you know, it it smelled like what people describe it smelling like. It was like this hairy creature. But if you go on the island, like like you know, the the Sasquatch isn't called Sasquatch. They they referred to it as Zunaqua and Buquwa. And the Zunaqua is the female and the Bukwa is the male, and the male is smaller and more shy and is kind of like the the chief of the ghosts and and the other dimension whereas the Zunaqua is more like Like a like this motherly mother of the four. You what I mean? Like it's just they're just so different than than what we are talking about today. But at the same time, like a lot of modern indigenous art about Sasquatch looks exactly like Patty from the Patterson Gimlin film now. So it's like these things have sort of just meshed into this one modern cultural reference, but the origins are so removed from them. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: But I, you know, even even people who are indigenous almost align more with modern versions of Sasquatch than the traditional teaching. So I think it's just we've taken all this stuff and just made it so vastly different. Partly I think because, as you know, Westerners or people who are from Europe, that's kind of what we we simplify it. We we like to make it something so we can understand. So it's a lot easier to even say it's this wild man of the woods or it's an interdimensional being than trying to describe how deeply rooted into culture it is and how it's actually two different things with two different you know what I mean, two different energies? Like how do you describe that in in an easy way without taking an hour? So I think that we've just kind of simplified everything into a way that makes it easier to understand and maybe in some ways easier to market and sell kind of thing, right? Like The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. And easier to say isn't true as well, right? Yeah, yeah. Because you in in the midst of that, I'm sure there are some stories that aren't true. There I would think there are some, but that it muddies the water for the rest of them. Jason Hewlett: Yes. Yep. Like I think the moot the Moochalot Harry story is one that I think it it it isn't a true Sasquatch story. And it was ⁓ well, who is the guy? Peter Byrne, I think, wrote about it in his book, and he wanted to write up something that could compete with the Albert Osman story, which I think there's a lot more validity to it. But even when Albert Osman first was telling the story, it was less Sasquatch. He had more like he was abducted by like a tribe of Natives, wild natives, kind of thing. Like it even that story kind of changed with time, but ⁓ there's something to it. When you hear the story, we talked about it in in Sasquatch Quest, where the Sasquatch would come and light fires on Morris Mountain every four years, kind of thing. That even if you look that's what Harrison Hot Springs sells it as. But if you go back, I think a lot more of the Salish not the Salish, the Shahalas people. It was more of a tribe they fought with. You know what I mean? And kind of would That that tribe then has become Sasquatch over time because it make yeah, it just it's I think these stories just have a way of kind of being twisted and adopted in different ways and like the like the was it the telephone story where you tell one person a story and then they turn around and tell it to someone else and then they just go down the line and it becomes a little more elaborate and different e with each telling. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Same kind of idea. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And that the you that doesn't happen though with a lot of native traditions though. Like when the with their oral stories, and I'm not I can't do them justice either. But a lot of them a lot of their stories do kind of seem to stick to it for the most part, don't they? Jason Hewlett: Same idea, just it just morphs a bit, right? Yeah, th th yeah, like if you talk to someone they're they the people who they're there's almost like people are entrusted with that story to pass it on and so they tell it very much the same way each each time. And and a lot of the times, especially someone who'd be deemed an outsider, it's hard to get them to talk about their their stories as well. ⁓ with the Wendigo, it was because you don't talk about the Wendigo. Like you just it's like almost like, you know, bloody merit. If you say it so many times, you're drawing it to you and that's just bad. So they don't want to talk about it. ⁓ The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: Only reason I could find someone to talk about it is 'cause I found a woman who's an

experiencer who is related to the Morgan Knudsen not related to but friends of Morgan Knudsen who was one of the researchers in Alberta I talked to. And they had an i a joint experience. So then this Alicia Pro Warner was willing to talk about it. But, you know, the only r the only way we could get a hold of someone for a journey to Ape Island was I went to the Royal B C Museum and there's a gentleman named Wed Lede Speck who's an indigenous elder and he knows all these stories and he was willing to talk about it. You know what I mean? Like it's it's could be hard because of I think because we've taken them and changed them, or we'll take something that's sacred to them and portray it as just a monster. And maybe also as a way of preserving the accuracy of the story at the same time. Right. When w with Wed Ledi, he wanted to be sure that we weren't gonna change his stories into something else. And we had to really convince him that we were just gonna he would tell it, we would present it as he told it, and that would be the end of it, kinda thing. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Well it's been commodified so much as well too, right? Like, you know, it's it I'm sure it is just something that's so deeply ingrained in their culture and and so many people have used it to, you know, create, you know, a theme park or ⁓ yeah. So it's it ch it cheapens it out in a way, right? So Jason Hewlett: Yeah. That's hence with Ogopogo, that was the big thing. Like they Corley Miller, who's with West Bank First Nations, made a point of saying what you guys are talking, what Tourism Kelowna is selling has nothing to do with our water spirit. You know, like like absolutely nothing. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Right. Yeah. yeah, I mean we we've covered a lot of the crypta. Is there is there ⁓ one thing I did want to bring up, and I'm not sure if you've looked into too much, is the Mothman. one of my favorites. I love I love the Mothman Prophecies is like a great movie. ⁓ but I I have you looked much into into that? Jason Hewlett: Hm. J like I like you, I mean I really enjoy the film and I've read the book. The actual the actual book. ⁓ John Keel's book, which is vastly different than the movie. Like they're almost two completely different entities. ⁓ aside from the the th the what actually happened at at Point Pleasant. ⁓ I so I've done a bit of research. Obviously I haven't been there ⁓ myself or anything like that, but I just think it's it's another one of those things almost like the Wendigo that is now being called a cryptid, but really is something far The Eh-Soteric Archives: Okay. Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: More than that. Like it's just it I you know, it's like th it's this harbinger of doom almost, right? Like and I know there's been sightings in the Chicago area. There's a rash of sightings I think in like the late twenty teens where the people were seeing them in in Chicago for some for some reason. What is it? I d I don't know, but it's it's certainly I know John

Keel thought it was one of the what he called the ultra terrestrials. 'Cause his th his theory's really neat. ⁓ The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: He basically says there's like this, I can't remember what he exactly calls it, but it's like there's this energy that's on this planet that is interacting with us all the time. And that's he used the example of like, you know, back in the days of the building of the Great Pyramids, people would call say they saw chariots of the gods, like literally chariots flying through the sky. And then in the Victorian area, they they say they see these mysterious airships that look like these weird dirigibles flying around. And now, you know, when he was writing this book, I think it was in the 60s, people were seeing flying saucers. But he says it's the same thing, just as our we advance our interpretation of what we're seeing changes with time. And he says there's these beings that he called ultra-terrestrials that come from this place or this energy, and they're like a mothman, or they're like the men in black. Because the original men in black were nothing like Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith. Like they just they they talked weird, they dressed with their clothes never fit right. And they'd always show up after people would see like a mothman or just some UFO and they just would almost like try to discourage people from talking about it. And that that's those stories have just mythed into being government agents. But he thought they were just this other energy interacting with us. And he could never determine why there's this energy here and why it's messing with us, but it's it's a part of the natural experience on this planet. And I I always find that really fascinating. And for him, it was a way of describing Sasquatch and Lake Monsters and all this other stuff. It's all this interconnected energy. that we are just interpreting i in a certain way. But it's here why it's interacting with us, what its intention is, he couldn't d determine, but he just believed it was like this natural part of our experience on this planet. The Eh-Soteric Archives: And it does explain how everything changed over time. I I I agree a lot with John Keel's kind of ideas about stuff. I I think Jack Jacques Vallet has a some of that are kind of similar in some ways, but also different as well. But John Keels is the one that I I think I kind of would adhere to the most out of all of them. 'Cause it does yeah, it explains why it changes over time. I always for the longest time to me I like, ⁓ 'cause they're not they're making it up. You know what I mean? It's in their consciousness, that's why they're but Jason Hewlett: Mm-hmm. The Eh-Soteric Archives: I then got to a point where I realized that can't be true either. And then this explains everything. Not everything to me, but it explains a lot to me, enough that I'm comfortable, yeah, saying I agree with it. Jason Hewlett: Yeah, yes, exactly. Because, you know, enough people are having these experiences that there's something to it. Right? Enough people are seeing what they're saying, like Mothman wasn't seen by just one person, and many people saw it over multiple nights in different locations. So how can you discredit that? Not everyone is having the this hallucination if it's the same thing in different places at different times, right? Like it's there's and then there's something to it. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. And they were seeing it without knowing that other people had seen it. It wasn't some of them had seen it before there was even a panic about it, right? And they'd seen it. And I it it turned up at Three Mile Island, I think, too, as well, before Three Mile Island went down. There was Mothman reports of En Chernobyl. Yeah, like there's a lot of evidence around the world of a of a being something like that that that shows up at these weird moments. And yeah, who knows if it's still Warren or because it actually is Yeah, you know, the reason why it happens, but yeah. Jason Hewlett: And Chernobyl, I think, as well. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Well and that's kinda yeah, I mean that plays into s sort of like how I feel about it with even even with Sasquatch, right? It's like I I it would be really interesting to kind of draw that connection and look at the timelines of when there are these clusters of sightings and see what was happening in that area during that time, right? Like what was happening in the world during that time, what were the energies like, you know? ⁓ Jason Hewlett: Mm. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Well yeah, the Mothman one is is definitely and like I I kind of lump it in with like the Wendigo stuff too. It's it has much more of like a paranormal and almost like a demonic kind of vibe than than just a straight up like cryptid yeah. Yeah. Malevolent energy kind of Yeah. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: Yeah, yeah. It's it's never like, you know, Mothman shows up and someone saves a puppy or something like that. It's always something really bad tends to h I I can't remember if anything happened in Chicago after that that spate of sightings. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. It just turned into what Chicago is now. It was the warning of that. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. so yeah, I'd I I I don't know when we're gonna end this, but I did wanna ask. I I'm gonna ask you on air. We can take it off if you want, but Jason Hewlett: So The Eh-Soteric Archives: It what's the possibility we can join you on a on an excursion or a trip or if if you're ever heading out this way, if you need any help, you definitely ⁓ we we watching your shows, I would love to be a part of that. How does someone become a part of that? Huh. Jason Hewlett: ⁓ so I g I guess yeah, it's just a matter of k being in the right place at the right time. Like over I you know, I always I'm always open to working with for people. I mean, I've got more projects obviously on the go. So and you know, too, like even if it's something if I'm in

the lower mainland, if it's easy enough for you guys to come over when I'm doing something that would be doable as well, right? And ⁓ it'd be you guys would be a good resort resource to interview about this stuff. 'Cause I I like to interview different people. You know what I mean? Like at the the all I always think The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Jason Hewlett: The more people you can bring into something to interview and share their knowledge, the better. And so, you know, if we could do that and you guys could share your info like be interviewed to share info and then be around for the investigation part, I think that'd be really cool. And it's something we could definitely talk about because I'm gonna be doing this for a while longer, you know, at least, right? Like knock on wood. So And I appreciate you guys wanting to. I that that that's like almost like the best praise someone could have about a project 'cause it means it it has some validity to somebody. So The Eh-Soteric Archives: Right on. Yeah. Yeah, no, that'd be fun. Yeah, I I as we mentioned earlier, I I personally really like your approach to it and I like that you interview the different people as well as go to the specific places where things happen and you know what I mean, take your shot, as Andrew said, and see see kind of what you can get out of it. I I think that's a a very good way to go about it. And yeah. Definitely how I would do it if I'd come up with with the idea or had the the intuition to do something like that before now, but Yeah. Yeah. And I've spent some time at at the Harrison Hot Springs and stuff as well. And it's it definitely has I remember the first time I went there, I was like, There's something about this place. It's it has that like I don't know, sleepy hollow kind of feel to it. Like there's there's some it's just so quiet and you know, outside of the the guys, you know, ripping around the lake in their boats during the day. But then at night it has a totally different feel to it. So it's done. We have to book a trip then. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: It it The Eh-Soteric Archives: Go to Harrison Hot Springs. Jason Hewlett: I I thought Harrison Hot Springs is beautiful too. Like I just love being there and and going out and hanging with the family. But you're right. Like I've when we filmed a big good chunk of Sasquatch quests there last November, I'd always been there in the summer. So and when you're there in November, it has a completely different feeling because it is like dead. Right? And it yeah, and at night it gets there just it just starts to feel kind of it has you're right, it has a different vibe to it. Sleepy Hollow is a great terminology to use. to describe it in the end. It's it's a great spot. I'd love to be there for Halloween. I think that'd be really cool. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well yeah. I don't I think I ripped through all my questions. Did you? Yeah, I I if you if I would ask him anything that he won else, is there anything else you want to speak about or talk about or any of Jason Hewlett: I think I think we've we pretty much hit the nail on the head with everything that I can think of. You guys ask great questions. It's that's awesome. The Eh-Soteric Archives: And ⁓ thanks man, thanks. ⁓ anything anything you'd like to say kinda on exit or I I you pretty much mentioned everything at the beginning about where people can find you, but I don't know if you wanna Jason Hewlett: Yeah, I I think just you know, I I appreciate that people are much more open to these subjects. Like the fact that we're sitting here doing a show about it shows just how people are so you know, whereas like twenty years ago, I don't was I think Jim Harold had was the only guy with a paranormal podcast at the time. You know, and now like, you know, you're getting to do the show. And and to have something from the Canadi like Canadians do this kind of stuff and being willing to talk about I know in the States it's far I think it's more accepted in the States than it is even in Canada. But the fact that there's The the A that Small Town Monsters is an interest in Canadian content and that you guys like you out of Victoria are doing, you know, a show talking about it too, I think is fantastic. I I think it's and you know, I appreciate that people are doing that now. 'Cause the more of us that do, the more open people are going to be. And I think the greater chance we're gonna have of getting any solid answers to this these mysteries as well. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I agree. It's ⁓ yeah, let's let's bring it bring it more into the collective consciousness and and maybe we'll actually catch one of these things one one day. Jason Hewlett: Rather catch than someone I I the th the thought of someone wanting to shoot it to me is really for that's not the answer. That's not the answer. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. That would be awful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No. I just want a non blurry video. I'll settle for that. Yeah. Jason Hewlett: Yeah. Yeah, I think that would be that would be wild. That's what I'm trying for. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Yeah. Yeah. Well I don't think there'd be anyone better to nail it, so hopefully hopefully it is you. Jason Hewlett: Thank you. Thank you so much. The Eh-Soteric Archives: Thank you. Well, yeah, I know this was a lot of fun. Thanks again for for joining us. And ⁓ yeah, everyone check check out Jason and his work ⁓ with small town monsters. And ⁓ I know you have a couple books for sale and stuff as well. So I'm definitely gonna pick up that that Wendigo book. I want to read that for sure. So ⁓ All right. ⁓ from the land of the high seas and the tall trees, I'm Mike. I'm Andrew. Have a great night. We'll catch you next time. Jason Hewlett: Thank you.