Pełna transkrypcja odcinka Creating Soulful Relationships

. 00:02:17.770 --> 00:02:24.849 Um, and we have these, um, we, we marry somebody or we're with in a intimate relationship, we're in fantasy. 00:02:26.069 --> 00:02:31.050 And the minute we hit reality, they show us, um, that they think differently than us. 00:02:31.389 --> 00:02:40.650 And then we deal with that in a way that, uh, can be really brutal to, uh, our, our adrenaline. 00:02:40.909 --> 00:02:42.490 And we tend to go into automatic behavior. 00:02:42.620 --> 00:02:42.969 Right. 00:02:43.500 --> 00:02:48.009 Hence why you and I have a job working with, with family systems. 00:02:48.750 --> 00:02:52.889 And so one of the first questions he, he says, I'm not so interested in the problem. 00:02:53.590 --> 00:02:58.810 I'm interested in where that person is inside. 00:02:59.310 --> 00:03:01.719 Like, how are they hooked up? 00:03:02.030 --> 00:03:16.520 Because if I'm talking to a couple and that person's activated and they're in the limbic or emotional center of their brain, acting out childhood trauma, it doesn't matter what topic we're on, it's going to be at a much reg, more regressed place. 00:03:16.580 --> 00:03:19.919 And that's typically what we see in our own relationships. 00:03:19.979 --> 00:03:23.439 And as therapists, we see the topic could be anything. 00:03:23.740 --> 00:03:35.039 It could be the holidays, it could be how you spend money, but if I'm doing it from a place of woundedness, and if I'm doing it from a place of regression, we're gonna have the same old argument again and again and again. 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:39.000 So he points that out, like, where are you coming from? 00:03:39.500 --> 00:03:47.800 His supposition is, if I'm coming from my prefrontal cortex, my wise adult logic center, I have the capacity to be the following. 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:48.800 I love this list. 00:03:50.629 --> 00:03:59.039 Nuanced, wise, realistic, forgiving, flexible, warm, yielding, and humble. 00:04:00.860 --> 00:04:02.159 That's the wise adult folks. 00:04:02.789 --> 00:04:03.080 Okay. 00:04:03.250 --> 00:04:03.599 Where 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:04.240 Does that live? 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:04.520 ? 00:04:04.550 --> 00:04:04.840 Well, 00:04:05.349 --> 00:04:06.840 That lives in the prefrontal cortex. 00:04:06.841 --> 00:04:07.120 Okay. 00:04:07.229 --> 00:04:13.159 It's the ability to weigh and measure, to hold one more than one idea to use discernment. 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:13.879 Mm-hmm. 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:20.930 to manage emotions, to be aware of the feelings of others, as well as my own feelings. 00:04:20.930 --> 00:04:25.088 That's really what's distinguishes adults from children, the wise adult. 00:04:25.250 --> 00:04:28.569 I can imagine that I'm having an experience and you're having one too. 00:04:29.110 --> 00:04:32.490 So it's, um, a sense of generosity and compassion mm-hmm. 00:04:32.569 --> 00:04:40.370 and having a sense of belief that, um, you may be in a contrary conversation and you're not going to lose yourself. 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:41.290 Yeah. 00:04:41.670 --> 00:04:45.209 And this idea of the, the guilty is charged. 00:04:45.211 --> 00:04:54.810 Winning is a big, um, strategy that we tend to get into with other people, and it's really not efficient. 00:04:55.269 --> 00:04:59.410 His focus has largely been on working with men, um, and couples. 00:04:59.709 --> 00:05:06.250 And in our culture, in the patriarchal culture, it's about being top dog winning, um, keeping the ego safe. 00:05:07.149 --> 00:05:13.250 And it's not about cooperating, it's aga about me first and getting outta there unscathed. 00:05:13.250 --> 00:05:18.129 And so he talks about the you and me culture versus the us the title of his book culture. 00:05:18.790 --> 00:05:31.410 And he appeals to the sensibilities of a lot of busy people when he says, uh, practicing nuanced, realistic, forgiving, flexible, warm, yielding and humble states of mind is more efficient 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:33.560 In the, in the long run. 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:34.800 The short term in the long run. 00:05:34.829 --> 00:05:35.120 Yeah. 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:35.439 Right. 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:37.120 Because for the relationship ex. 00:05:37.660 --> 00:05:38.278 Yes, exactly. 00:05:38.300 --> 00:05:43.278 So you're coming into the, the idea I'm a, um, and, and non-violent communication. 00:05:43.420 --> 00:05:52.040 I'm a facilitator, and the idea is that you both come in with the intention of love and compassion and working things out mm-hmm. 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:53.439 as opposed to being Right. 00:05:53.440 --> 00:05:56.160 Regardless of what it, you know, what it is that we're gonna go through. 00:05:56.588 --> 00:05:56.879 Yeah. 00:05:56.899 --> 00:05:57.759 So very different 00:05:58.480 --> 00:05:58.480 Direction. 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:02.439 Well, you know, we start off with that idea, but then there's a, a button that's pushed. 00:06:02.670 --> 00:06:02.959 Okay. 00:06:03.500 --> 00:06:08.480 And our reflexes, we don't even get a chance to think. 00:06:08.838 --> 00:06:08.838 Yeah. 00:06:09.139 --> 00:06:13.199 We go right into how we protected ourself from assault. 00:06:13.220 --> 00:06:13.639 Mm-hmm. 00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:22.278 , I mean, if my frightened self is going to take over and you're now gonna be the enemy, you're gonna be the other. 00:06:22.310 --> 00:06:23.639 It's not gonna be about us. 00:06:24.259 --> 00:06:25.920 And I wouldn't even consider that. 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:28.680 Maybe you are regressed too. 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:31.720 Maybe your, you've gone offline, maybe you've had a hard day. 00:06:31.721 --> 00:06:32.120 Mm-hmm. 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:35.720 , maybe something work didn't happen at work, or you're not feeling well. 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:49.319 You see, children can't take that perspective unless they've been trained in it to know that parents are separate from themselves and have their a bad day and maybe, uh, aren't reflecting their best

selves unless a parent tells'em that. 00:06:49.660 --> 00:06:55.838 So learning how to take the other person's perspective, or at least create space for it, is a huge breakthrough. 00:06:56.278 --> 00:06:56.278 Yeah. 00:06:56.519 --> 00:07:10.120 I mean, we've taught active listening for years as therapists, but what he's really saying, it doesn't matter if you're creating room for the, the patient conversation of parroting what your partner said and reframing, reframing it. 00:07:10.660 --> 00:07:13.279 If you're activated, you can throw it out the windows. 00:07:13.300 --> 00:07:16.399 You're gonna say like, looks like you're feeling sorry for yourself. 00:07:16.459 --> 00:07:17.120 Am I right? 00:07:17.139 --> 00:07:19.759 You know, the active listening isn't gonna work. 00:07:20.180 --> 00:07:31.680 So it's much more a conversation about me and you trying to become us and the awareness that I've gotta get back online and be very generous. 00:07:32.259 --> 00:07:42.560 So how does one become, um, observant of when, when they're in the, the freeway of emotion of being activated? 00:07:42.910 --> 00:07:44.720 Like how, where are the stops? 00:07:44.721 --> 00:07:50.800 Where is where is, like I say with the metaphor, the freeway, where are the off-ramps to be able to get off that track? 00:07:50.949 --> 00:07:53.360 Well, one of them is to recognize the red flags. 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:54.240 Um, okay. 00:07:54.470 --> 00:07:55.480 It's escalating. 00:07:55.889 --> 00:07:58.839 Names are being called, um, stonewalling. 00:07:58.879 --> 00:07:59.759 I don't wanna talk to you. 00:07:59.839 --> 00:08:02.120 Contempt, defensiveness. 00:08:02.259 --> 00:08:03.839 The things that John Gottman talked about. 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:04.079 Yeah. 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:07.240 In, uh, the seven principles of making marriage work. 00:08:07.350 --> 00:08:12.160 It's like, oh, those are, when that happens, it's like weevils in the oatmeal. 00:08:12.180 --> 00:08:13.319 You don't wanna keep going. 00:08:13.660 --> 00:08:17.639 So being mindful if it's escalating and it's not working out, yeah. 00:08:17.910 --> 00:08:18.600 That would be a sign. 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:20.839 We're off track and he normalizes it. 00:08:20.841 --> 00:08:22.519 We're gonna get off track it. 00:08:22.521 --> 00:08:23.759 I'll use myself as a Guinea pig. 00:08:23.761 --> 00:08:26.319 I work with a lot of couples, but he's my own couple. 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:35.580 I can tell when Michaels does something and my blood pressure goes up right there, um, he said something and I'm activated. 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:37.419 I'm now offline my choice. 00:08:38.428 --> 00:08:50.940 Especially having read this book and, and learning from it and being reminded, we need to be reminded of these things cuz we don't get reminded enough in our culture that we can get activated and it look like high blood pressure and, you 00:08:50.940 --> 00:08:52.139 Know, headaches, clenched 00:08:52.139 --> 00:08:57.799 Fists and headaches and deep hurt pain and wanting to run sleep apnea. 00:08:57.928 --> 00:08:58.678 Sleep apnea. 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:01.720 And in the moment, just like with my body's going through, I feel defensive. 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:02.639 I feel contempt. 00:09:02.640 --> 00:09:03.639 I, I feel criticized. 00:09:03.980 --> 00:09:08.000 So what I do instead is I soften and take a breath. 00:09:09.500 --> 00:09:15.360 And now my adult, when I take a breath like Buddhas brain, the book Mark Hansen's book mm-hmm. 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:19.480 , I immediately signal to my heart that I'm not being chased by crocodiles. 00:09:19.990 --> 00:09:45.159 When I signal to my heart that I'm not being chased by crocodiles, my amygdala stopped sending messages to my brain that I am in deep danger and I am thinking from my limbic system, my emotional brain, which then allows my brain to tell me I'm safe, which allows my adrenals to calm down and stop pumping adrenaline so that I wanna fight, flight, fix, or freeze as well. 00:09:45.470 --> 00:09:45.759 Yeah. 00:09:45.820 --> 00:09:48.240 And faw make it all better. 00:09:48.620 --> 00:09:51.639 So when I become aware of that, I can stop and soften. 00:09:51.700 --> 00:09:57.919 And then when I take the breath and I take a step back, okay. 00:09:57.921 --> 00:10:10.320 Really, sometimes I'll literally take a step back and then my, I wait for my adult and because I've preloaded some of these thoughts, I'll say he's activated or he's not activated and I'm activated. 00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:12.480 I can literally assess who's activated. 00:10:13.580 --> 00:10:20.399 If he's activated, like he's yelled at me the other day, you're being so impatient,, you're just not patient. 00:10:21.340 --> 00:10:31.639 And because I had read Terry's book, I said, I took a breath and I thought he could be righted instead of going into my typically regressed defense posture. 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:33.919 I just looked at him and I said, you're right. 00:10:34.870 --> 00:10:36.129 And he looked at me like, what? 00:10:36.610 --> 00:10:37.090 . 00:10:37.509 --> 00:10:38.370 I'm not used to that. 00:10:39.470 --> 00:10:43.690 And, and I thought I would rather be free to quote my teacher rom doss than write. 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:44.090 Yeah. 00:10:45.409 --> 00:10:46.610 I was annoying. 00:10:47.049 --> 00:10:54.690 I couldn't see how annoying I was just smashing into things, trying to get out of the house and forgetting half the things I was, I was running out this, he was right. 00:10:56.470 --> 00:10:58.928 And then I create room for his point of view. 00:10:59.639 --> 00:10:59.928 Okay. 00:11:00.549 --> 00:11:07.769 I'm not as a woman, I was raised in the time era feminism, which says the guy is trying to crush you. 00:11:08.308 --> 00:11:09.570 And I learned to be harsh. 00:11:10.909 --> 00:11:16.129 And one of the things that Terry says about harshness, we all received it as children. 00:11:16.149 -->

00:11:17.250 Almost all of us did. 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:21.610 That there's no redeeming value in being harsh. 00:11:23.789 --> 00:11:26.370 So I'm looking at that too as a major principle. 00:11:26.370 --> 00:11:32.490 Could I have learned as a child without someone yelling at me, calling me a name, being impatient with me being harsh. 00:11:32.659 --> 00:11:33.289 Being harsh. 00:11:34.070 --> 00:11:35.928 So stop, drop and roll. 00:11:36.509 --> 00:11:37.570 And I just let go of it. 00:11:37.889 --> 00:11:38.769 I just let go. 00:11:39.230 --> 00:11:40.889 He said I was impatient, so what? 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:46.730 And I just kind of riffed on it and he kind of went, yeah, I'd like you to really remember your phone this time. 00:11:47.428 --> 00:11:50.129 You know, because you come up the stairs, you leave it nine times outta 10. 00:11:50.190 --> 00:11:51.049 I'm like, you know, you're right. 00:11:52.009 --> 00:11:52.370 I do. 00:11:53.220 --> 00:11:56.440 And honestly, Brenda, it felt like just, it just rolled off my shoulders. 00:11:56.678 --> 00:11:57.480 You don't have to carry it. 00:11:58.159 --> 00:11:58.678 I don't have to. 00:11:58.840 --> 00:11:59.480 I don't have to be. 00:11:59.480 --> 00:11:59.799 Right. 00:11:59.830 --> 00:12:00.600 What a burden. 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:02.120 And that's the ego burden. 00:12:02.230 --> 00:12:02.519 Yeah. 00:12:02.549 --> 00:12:09.159 It's just like saying you carry all this burden, all this weight you have to maintain the sense of, um, protection and being Right. 00:12:09.389 --> 00:12:12.480 This is what, what Terry's list of what the adaptive child. 00:12:12.940 --> 00:12:13.159 Go 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:13.320 Ahead. 00:12:13.549 --> 00:12:19.879 Well I was just thinking you've been having a very tight, high dense load of patients. 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:20.240 Yes. 00:12:20.379 --> 00:12:24.600 And and it's interesting that you are impatient when you are like full of patients. 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:25.080 . 00:12:25.779 --> 00:12:27.000 That's my youngest as in 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:28.558 Part contact as a therapist. 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:28.919 Yeah. 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:31.360 I sit with this my wise adult. 00:12:31.509 --> 00:12:31.799 Yeah. 00:12:32.259 --> 00:12:33.720 My wise adult breathes. 00:12:35.129 --> 00:12:37.600 Takes time, does a lot of listening. 00:12:37.820 --> 00:12:38.240 Mm-hmm. 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:42.120 enters the stream, uh, in a very different way. 00:12:42.419 --> 00:12:45.360 And that's really important for all of us to be aware of. 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:49.840 I have my professional self and most of my clients are like that. 00:12:50.230 --> 00:12:51.039 They do fine. 00:12:51.041 --> 00:12:52.320 They're very successful people. 00:12:52.470 --> 00:12:52.759 Yeah. 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:54.759 They know how to work with their clients. 00:12:54.760 --> 00:12:57.200 They know how to work in their businesses and run things. 00:12:57.629 --> 00:13:06.039 It's when we get home that we regress because I'm gonna take off that mask and put it on this door and I'm gonna be the child now. 00:13:06.110 --> 00:13:06.399 Yeah. 00:13:06.779 --> 00:13:08.320 And you're gonna take, you're gonna take care of me. 00:13:09.419 --> 00:13:11.320 So what does Terry say that what Terry's 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:12.639 Talking about the adaptive child. 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:20.080 The what I've learned to be when I'm activated, this is how the brain goes black and white versus nuanced. 00:13:20.940 --> 00:13:23.919 Perfectionistic versus realistic. 00:13:25.250 --> 00:13:28.330 Relentless versus forgiving. 00:13:28.331 --> 00:13:30.610 Like, I'm gonna fight you tooth and nail to the ground. 00:13:30.928 --> 00:13:33.049 I learned to do that with two older brothers who teased me. 00:13:33.090 --> 00:13:35.808 I just get in there like a wolverine versus forgiving. 00:13:36.980 --> 00:13:39.169 Rigid versus flexible. 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:42.169 Like maybe part of what he's saying is right. 00:13:42.490 --> 00:13:42.490 Mm-hmm. 00:13:42.570 --> 00:13:44.009 and I benefit from it. 00:13:44.899 --> 00:13:46.529 Harsh versus warm. 00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:48.330 Think how much distance there is. 00:13:48.331 --> 00:13:48.730 Mm-hmm. 00:13:48.769 --> 00:13:49.529 between the two. 00:13:49.530 --> 00:13:49.850 Maybe 00:13:49.870 --> 00:13:50.850 He cares about me. 00:13:51.269 --> 00:13:54.450 See my activated brain would never think that Michael cared about me. 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:55.928 He's been critical of me. 00:13:56.129 --> 00:13:56.129 Yeah. 00:13:56.130 --> 00:13:57.928 Like my brothers were critical to me. 00:13:58.169 --> 00:13:58.169 Yeah. 00:13:58.509 --> 00:14:03.970 And when I really, I, I just wanna do a commercial for maybe your parents didn't abuse you, but your siblings might have or mm-hmm. 00:14:04.049 --> 00:14:05.330 somebody else in the family. 00:14:07.169 --> 00:14:09.850 Um, hard versus yielding. 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:18.409 Like if I'm just staying on this place versus yielding, yield the position that's an, an adult certain versus humble. 00:14:20.230 --> 00:14:22.970 So much healing happens with humility. 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:33.450 When the ego burden is literally heavy when I go, I can be wrong, I can be late, I can be ignorant of something and I still have a right to exist 00:14:34.070 --> 00:14:35.370 And it's all okay. 00:14:35.850 --> 00:14:43.450 I mean, you may not wanna perpetuate it, but the idea is that the, I think you said the key word is I could benefit from this. 00:14:43.730 --> 00:14:47.009 I could benefit, and this is a hint for all of us. 00:14:47.429 --> 00:14:52.240 If I'm tight in my body, the somatic, the soma mm-hmm. 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.120 , I am going to be black and white. 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.720 Perfectionist, relentless, rigid, harsh, hard, certain. 00:14:58.740 --> 00:14:59.799 So I need to take that breath. 00:14:59.909 -->

00:15:00.200 Yeah. 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:09.679 I need to take a step back, maybe go wash my hands, listen to the podcast, listen, read the book. 00:15:09.681 --> 00:15:10.919 There's lots of resources. 00:15:10.921 --> 00:15:15.720 But I'm really down the rabbit hole with Terry cuz he's really, he's a seasoned therapist like I am. 00:15:16.539 --> 00:15:27.080 And to know that I can listen with love and interest, uh, David d Burn's work in the five secrets of effective communication. 00:15:27.100 --> 00:15:30.960 It begins with I can validate what the other person is experiencing. 00:15:31.580 --> 00:15:32.799 If I were you, I'd be you. 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:34.159 I can ask questions about it. 00:15:35.019 --> 00:15:37.080 Nobody thinks to do that when you're activated. 00:15:37.081 --> 00:15:39.799 Like tell me more about my impatience and how it's upsetting. 00:15:40.019 --> 00:15:40.559 I'm curious. 00:15:41.750 --> 00:15:42.039 Yeah. 00:15:42.139 --> 00:15:54.629 And the idea of those questions, a sense of curiosity feels like that's the language of prefacing us versus me. 00:15:55.529 --> 00:15:55.750 Yes. 00:15:55.990 --> 00:16:01.870 Cuz once I bring you in, you have your own way of seeing the world that could benefit me. 00:16:02.190 --> 00:16:02.190 Yeah. 00:16:02.450 --> 00:16:04.309 And you are alone in it. 00:16:05.009 --> 00:16:16.830 And if I join you, even if you're like with people who have Alzheimer's or any kind of dementia, they, they don't recommend saying there's no flying monkeys on the wall or you know, or Uncle Burt is not standing there. 00:16:16.899 --> 00:16:18.509 It's like, what is Uncle Burt saying? 00:16:18.940 --> 00:16:22.629 What that, what I'm experiencing at that moment is my reality. 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:23.070 Right. 00:16:23.169 --> 00:16:28.590 If you join me in it with love and patience and empathy for that's what I'm experiencing. 00:16:30.090 --> 00:16:37.899 So the idea of why it's attracting you, like the idea of it's grabbed you. 00:16:38.700 --> 00:16:41.659 Um, you find a lot of validity as as I do as well. 00:16:41.660 --> 00:16:42.019 Mm-hmm. 00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:44.980 , how is this living? 00:16:45.250 --> 00:16:50.059 Like how can you apply this, um, say with children or, um, 00:16:50.740 --> 00:16:50.740 Yeah. 00:16:51.100 --> 00:16:52.220 You know, with within the family. 00:16:52.730 --> 00:16:53.019 Well, 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:55.980 We don't need to be harsh with our kids. 00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:58.259 We can ask them what they're going through. 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:00.220 We can validate their experience. 00:17:00.620 --> 00:17:00.620 Mm-hmm. 00:17:00.700 --> 00:17:03.460 if they come home and say, I hate my teacher. 00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:07.299 Um, rather than, oh, your teacher, I met her back to school. 00:17:07.579 --> 00:17:07.858 I'm back to school. 00:17:08.049 --> 00:17:08.779 They're just fine 00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:09.180 Know. 00:17:09.181 --> 00:17:09.579 Dismissing. 00:17:09.580 --> 00:17:09.940 Dismissing. 00:17:09.940 --> 00:17:10.059 Yeah. 00:17:10.060 --> 00:17:11.180 I wanna drop out soccer. 00:17:11.380 --> 00:17:14.220 A lot of my kids say, uh, the parents are like, they can't drop outta soccer. 00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:14.940 Invest in it. 00:17:14.941 --> 00:17:15.940 You know, they're gonna be team player. 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:17.980 Ask'em what they're going through. 00:17:17.990 --> 00:17:19.900 Don't, you're not in it to win it. 00:17:19.970 --> 00:17:20.259 Yeah. 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:21.420 You're gonna join him. 00:17:21.858 --> 00:17:24.140 I feel tired, I don't wanna go to practice tonight. 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:26.900 Ask more questions. 00:17:26.901 --> 00:17:27.858 What's it like for you? 00:17:27.859 --> 00:17:28.940 Going to practice every night. 00:17:29.259 --> 00:17:29.259 Mm-hmm. 00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:31.980 Uh, I can't get my work done. 00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:33.099 That's gotta be difficult. 00:17:33.700 --> 00:17:36.140 I don't have time to be, you know, just to relax. 00:17:36.690 --> 00:17:41.140 Well that's gotta be hard and inquire many times when you choir. 00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:44.059 Cuz generally they hire me to inquire gently. 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:48.259 The kid will say, I'll say, are you saying Cause I'll ask a question. 00:17:48.368 --> 00:17:50.480 Does that mean you don't wanna play soccer anywhere? 00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:51.440 No. 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:52.480 I, I like soccer. 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:55.920 I just don't wanna be doing league soccer. 00:17:56.019 --> 00:17:57.400 I'd rather just play at the school. 00:17:57.460 --> 00:17:57.880 Mm-hmm. 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:03.400 , I like soccer or I'd like to take this season off cuz I really like to read. 00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:11.970 So the idea of valuing what's going on in one's life, not dismissing it well, 00:18:12.089 --> 00:18:16.809 He so frightened his parents that if they get off the beaten track, we brutalize them. 00:18:17.049 --> 00:18:17.049 Mm. 00:18:17.430 --> 00:18:28.450 And so often what we're here to do and is nurture our children, guide them at in a conversation that is non-critical and empathic. 00:18:29.990 --> 00:18:34.529 And then set healthy limits from that place with them 00:18:35.569 --> 00:18:35.769 Together. 00:18:36.150 --> 00:18:43.130 And not what, what you're explaining is feeding the back line. 00:18:43.368 --> 00:18:51.769 In my, my dialogue about when we teach our children, when we show by modeling that we dismiss our children mm-hmm. 00:18:51.849 --> 00:18:59.608 as kids, they learn that their real thoughts, their ideas, who they are, their needs are dismissed. 00:19:00.049 --> 00:19:00.049 Mm-hmm. 00:19:00.130 --> 00:19:00.130 . 00:19:00.529 --> 00:19:02.930 And this is what you do with these parts of our life. 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.809 When we have a need, my parent dismissed it mm-hmm. 00:19:06.890 --> 00:19:08.849 , um, or not fully engaged with

it mm-hmm. 00:19:08.930 --> 00:19:11.690 , I was encouraged to give it up for their needs. 00:19:12.368 --> 00:19:12.809 Um mm-hmm. 00:19:12.890 --> 00:19:12.890 . 00:19:13.150 --> 00:19:32.009 So as you mature, you take that conditioning with you so that when you're older and working in, in a profession or in a relationship, um, you're, you've learned to rely on the, the facility within yourself to dismiss your needs. 00:19:32.549 --> 00:19:32.769 Yes. 00:19:33.430 --> 00:19:34.809 And not even to know their needs. 00:19:35.049 --> 00:19:35.049 Yeah. 00:19:35.050 --> 00:19:38.608 Because in many cases where children are helicoptered Yeah. 00:19:39.190 --> 00:19:43.690 And essentially rewarded for being better than everybody. 00:19:43.750 --> 00:19:44.170 Mm-hmm. 00:19:44.210 --> 00:19:48.130 , um, again, that, that sense of inflation. 00:19:48.890 --> 00:19:53.089 I see kids who are suicidal because they're really good at what they do. 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:55.769 They're awesome students, they're awesome athletes. 00:19:56.549 --> 00:20:04.130 And they are saturated with this idea that if they couldn't do those things, it'd be unlovable. 00:20:04.868 --> 00:20:11.009 So they either become bullies to themselves or they, they achieve these heights and bullied. 00:20:11.010 --> 00:20:12.490 They grew up to be bullies to their children. 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:12.890 Yeah. 00:20:13.358 --> 00:20:15.690 Only love these es these elevated parts 00:20:16.868 --> 00:20:21.970 As well as all the somatic issues that mature by 40 50. 00:20:22.490 --> 00:20:26.769 Or sometimes they erupt when we're in our fifties, like irritable bowel or mm-hmm. 00:20:26.849 --> 00:20:29.608 , um, the immune autoimmune, things like that. 00:20:29.930 --> 00:20:30.049 I 00:20:30.049 --> 00:20:31.289 See our kids checking out. 00:20:31.650 --> 00:20:31.650 Yeah. 00:20:31.651 --> 00:20:33.890 When they're overly helicopter, they get to an age. 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:38.289 It's usually adolescents, uh, when they're gonna rebel and they find something to numb. 00:20:39.470 --> 00:20:45.529 So they'll find, uh, oh my gosh, everything, um, alcohol, pot, you name it. 00:20:45.530 --> 00:20:55.759 They'll take grandma's pills, they'll take, take anything, but they will drop out completely because there's no place for them to have their own thoughts except the thoughts of they have their, the parents' thoughts. 00:20:55.819 --> 00:21:00.039 And like bronze says, your children are, they really have their own thoughts. 00:21:00.040 --> 00:21:00.880 They come from tomorrow. 00:21:00.980 --> 00:21:05.079 And we seem to be so frightened of their thoughts if we create room. 00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:11.319 I remember with my son Zack, he was quite a different thinker and I had to stand back when he'd say, I don't see why I actually have to go to college. 00:21:11.320 --> 00:21:12.358 What's this college thing? 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:13.000 It's such a drive. 00:21:13.539 --> 00:21:16.880 And

I would have these long conversations where I'd listen to him. 00:21:16.881 --> 00:21:18.799 Like, what else would you be thinking with? 00:21:18.800 --> 00:21:20.118 Like, tell me your thoughts about it. 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:20.279 Yeah. 00:21:20.280 --> 00:21:22.118 He says, well, I can learn on my own. 00:21:23.150 --> 00:21:27.210 And we went way down the rabbit hole with what interested him. 00:21:27.211 --> 00:21:30.608 And it was quite frightening because he was saying things that 00:21:30.890 --> 00:21:31.490 Frightening for you, 00:21:32.569 --> 00:21:33.130 Frightening for me. 00:21:33.289 --> 00:21:36.970 Cuz he said, I don't see why I can't just live in nature and read books. 00:21:37.868 --> 00:21:40.809 And I'm thinking he, that's, don't we call that houseless homeless? 00:21:41.390 --> 00:21:54.608 And I'm having all these fantasies, but I, I learned to stay with him because he would, he was such a strong kid in this, um, he would just shut down and do what he wanted to do anyway, so I went along for the ride and I found that he had beautiful thoughts. 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:55.009 Yeah. 00:21:55.390 --> 00:21:59.410 And I just ask him questions like, so if you live out in nature, where would you live? 00:22:00.269 --> 00:22:04.450 And have you looked into shelters and you didn't go to university? 00:22:04.608 --> 00:22:06.410 And what if you changed your mind, how would you go about it? 00:22:06.608 --> 00:22:06.930 Like with that? 00:22:07.190 --> 00:22:12.289 So it can lead to these beautiful, brave conversations that are nuanced. 00:22:12.809 --> 00:22:14.769 I gotta tell you that, that's how I lived my life. 00:22:15.608 --> 00:22:16.970 Ah, like zacharia 00:22:17.289 --> 00:22:17.289 . 00:22:17.290 --> 00:22:17.450 Yeah. 00:22:17.730 --> 00:22:18.009 I did. 00:22:18.170 --> 00:22:20.329 I didn't go to college until I was 40. 00:22:20.789 --> 00:22:21.009 See? 00:22:21.069 --> 00:22:21.569 And you're 00:22:21.569 --> 00:22:21.730 Here. 00:22:22.029 --> 00:22:22.410 I'm here. 00:22:23.069 --> 00:22:27.250 And I lived out in nature and I read the books and I, you know. 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:27.970 Yeah. 00:22:28.349 --> 00:22:31.490 So, um, it is possible. 00:22:31.809 --> 00:22:32.130 You see, I 00:22:32.210 --> 00:22:33.250 Think we need to see those things. 00:22:33.368 --> 00:22:38.089 I think there's such a tight narrative in the patriarchal view that we must get ahead of everybody. 00:22:38.608 --> 00:22:38.608 Yeah. 00:22:39.049 --> 00:22:44.849 I, I just paid for Zach to go get a bachelor's degree for eight years while he took every elective and explored his musical career. 00:22:45.269 --> 00:22:52.289 So we ended up getting some of that living up in Humboldt County and really got to explore his wild sides, which was great. 00:22:52.490 --> 00:22:52.569 . 00:22:52.690 --> 00:22:53.049 I love it. 00:22:53.059 --> 00:22:55.170 Until he was 40 and then he became a psychotherapist. 00:22:55.210 --> 00:22:55.769 I know, me too. 00:22:56.630 --> 00:22:57.730 You guys gotta talk. 00:22:58.730 --> 00:23:21.930 Um, the little attention or the atten the adjunctive, I should say, um, outcome of this conversation is in my larger work of, um, working with people, um, in how, how how they abdicate their own self-worth Yeah. 00:23:22.269 --> 00:23:45.170 Is many, most of us have all been taught from our, our parenting, you know, our primary caregivers, our, our school, our society, the concentric circles, um, to dismiss that inner work that what you've just been des describing, and it leaves this imbalance, but it does create this need for validation. 00:23:45.500 --> 00:23:47.319 But we don't give it to ourselves. 00:23:47.460 --> 00:23:50.319 We look for it outward and we crave it. 00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:50.599 Mm-hmm. 00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:52.920 , we act because we don't own it ourselves. 00:23:53.099 --> 00:24:05.079 We haven't been able to, uh, we haven't been val validated, we haven't been encouraged to believe and, and value who we are and what we say and how we wanna do things. 00:24:05.180 --> 00:24:10.559 And we're having all of these discordant, you know, pressures saying, no, do it this way. 00:24:11.299 --> 00:24:18.759 So when we're older, we tend to not have that stealthiness inside and that sense of belief. 00:24:19.380 --> 00:24:24.160 And we do abdicate and we, but we still have the same appetite. 00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:28.480 But instead of self-fulfilling it, we search for the outward. 00:24:28.700 --> 00:24:31.839 We, we go outside to validate mm-hmm. 00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:31.920 . 00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:44.960 And that's where we hook up with a lot of issues that allow us to experience these things to then create discordants and, and heartache and grief to come back eventually to that line of self-care. 00:24:45.349 --> 00:25:02.000 Because we, we, we travel all those places, all those positions outward, and we, we get those, uh, those, those attendant lovers that, that, um, can build us up and suckers dry because we don't know we have an experience from within ourselves. 00:25:02.358 --> 00:25:02.358 Mm-hmm. 00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:04.960 what that looks like and feels like, you know? 00:25:05.118 --> 00:25:05.118 Yeah. 00:25:05.358 --> 00:25:06.720 We, we we need the outer. 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:07.079 I 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:11.200 Love when I'm watching you because what you're doing is your hands are coming to your heart mm-hmm. 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:11.279 . 00:25:11.940 --> 00:25:18.279 And they're saying when you know, when you're in, when you're going in and you're, you know what you need and you desire and then your hands go out. 00:25:19.059 --> 00:25:21.720 And so that is the, I call that the point of power. 00:25:21.868 --> 00:25:26.519 When I take the point of power away from what is heartfelt Yeah. 00:25:26.539 --> 00:25:32.118 And close to me and I place it out in you, uh, then I'm gonna be disappointed. 00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:32.440 Absolutely. 00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:33.960 Because I just absolutely gave you my passion. 00:25:34.670 --> 00:25:37.519 It's like Zach, well quote one last time before we're done. 00:25:37.779 --> 00:25:46.039 He said to me when I bought him the last set of oil paints and he'd given up painting for music and he said, if you love painting so much, why don't you do it? 00:25:46.059 --> 00:25:46.480 Mm-hmm. 00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:54.160 , which I started because I realized I wanted a son who was an artist, but I did not, or at least when he showed an interest in art, I thought that was fabulous. 00:25:55.059 --> 00:25:57.118 And when he gave it up, I was heartsick. 00:25:57.618 --> 00:25:59.759 And when my son handed it back to me, yeah. 00:26:00.220 --> 00:26:02.680 It first I was insulted and then I was invited. 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:05.759 I stopped arguing in a harsh, rigid way. 00:26:05.760 --> 00:26:09.839 Became more yielding my wise adult said, I think my kid just taught me something. 00:26:09.910 --> 00:26:10.200 Yeah. 00:26:11.069 --> 00:26:16.079 I've denied myself the artist within, which is the name of our next talk We're gonna get to. 00:26:16.289 --> 00:26:17.358 Thank you so much, Deborah. 00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:17.680 All right. 00:26:17.681 --> 00:26:18.279 Thank you Brenda. 00:26:24.380 --> 00:26:30.160 And that concludes this week's episode of the Soul Path Sessions podcast with Deborah Mights Pearson and Brenda Littleton. 00:26:30.819 --> 00:26:39.358 If you'd like to hear more about living a more soulful life, please subscribe to our channel on your favorite podcast app and be sure to check out the show notes and links below. 00:26:40.059 --> 00:26:47.000 For more information from Deborah, visit soul path sessions.com and for brenda brenda littleton com. 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:50.160 Thank you for listening and remember to follow your soul.