Pełna transkrypcja odcinka 22. Sleuth's Explosive Finale Farewell to Season One

actually Daniel Wazniat pastor. Daniel hulk Yard. Hi, you're you're on the air live. Thank you for calling. Absolutely So, Uh, how how did it go with your conversations with Danny Wozniak? Well, that went fine. I've we've basically uh touched base on the one and uh asking how family members were and everything, and uh we discussed a few things in general it went, it went well. And did you share with him the fact that you participated in Sleuth? Yes, I did, and he had told me that he had heard all of the episodes, and uh, you know, as with anyone who depending upon which here you're listening with or what are you're looking at it through, he had his differences of opinion, but he did here my my version and he said, yeah, you're entitled to that, and I said, I know, I'm entitled to it. And I think he was referring to my opinion about Rachel Buffett's participation what my thoughts were, and I told him that I just told him that, I just told him what I felt. And uh. I told him I thought that they were airing on the side of justice, as I would say, they were trying to get perspectives from both sides, and uh, you know, and I encouraged him. I said, if you have a difference of opinion with Sleuth, you need to call them to to make your case. And I said, other than that, we have the bloggers point of view and we have Sleuth point of view. And I told him at that time, I'm more inclined to listen to Sleuth art because it seems to have more of the players who are more objective, who were there and have nothing to gain from their point of view one or the other. And he disagreed. He you know, he has absolute faith in his blogger. Are you when you say the blogg are you talking about the blogger that has the website? Daniel Wozniak is my friend. Yes, yes, And my bottom line and all of this, after my conversations with Daniel is that I I don't know. I've I'm just not sure anymore. I've the Daniel I knew and the Daniel I'm talking to they're not the same people. I'm just I'm to come to that conclusion, and I've decided that I don't know what to believe anymore. I am talking to Daniel. I just feel like there's just it's hard to get a handle on and things that didn't know that actually happened that I've heard. He he says he won't go into it because he says, there are certain records that you know that have everything that absolutely happened, uh that he can be discussed because of some kind of thing about well, I guess a while back here, h there's that thing in the Orange County jail system where they were snitching, going on all kinds of stuff. And he said, because of that, there's certain people they need to have interviewed and they can't. And this went on, and I said, finally, I said, Dan, stop, I said, you know what, this is the way over my head. I said, I have. All I've asked is that I'd like to help you with your ministry. I'd like if you feel that you have been absolutely truthful and everything. But I said, that's got to be your call. I said, I really don't want to discuss this anymore because Linda, I don't know what the truth is anymore. I'm just not talked to Dan. I don't know if I'm being put on now. Why was he upset with what you said about Rachel. You would think that that would have pleased him. No, I don't think it did, because I think there's so much more connected to all of this. I don't think we'll ever get the truth here. But I do believe that someone's hiding someone from someone, and I just I don't I don't understand anymore. He took issue with the fact that his that that Darrell died because of the injuries. He took issue with that and said that was not true and that evidently the brother, whoever it was, was banished and told to leave the family. Well, I mean, I mean the injuries were a direct result of him going into a coma. Well that I don't know. I aparned that. He denies a lot of it and said that the brother is not allowed around there anymore. Right, that's why. That's why the brother is not allowed any there anymore, because he beat him to a pulp. And you know what, Bob Castillo came on the show and said, I saw him moments after he was beaten by Mike and he had bruises and black eyes and bleeding everywhere. It's sad because this is not the family I knew. And I feel from Merry in his mom I feel for all of them what's going on there, and this is tragic. And I never once got remorse for the victims that didn't even come up. It wasn't even volunteered. And usually the dan, I know what, I'll apologize or something like that, and felt bad, But that Dan's going that the Danson San Quentin, and my feeling is the Dan that belongs to San Quentin. What he did was unforgivable, but his lack of remorse is even more unforgivable. I just it just breaks my heart. I don't know what he's hiding, I don't know who he's hiding, but I don't think the total truth has come up well he. I think that we know that the the taking on Rachel and and framing her for her role in these murders are directly correlated to Tim's role in the murders. And I think that that's what's that's what's the big secret here. That's a shame. But I look at it this way, Linda. Unless someone goes after Dan, unless something breaks, it's not gonna happen. I mean, it's so now here. So now you feel like you you won't be able to get the truth out of him at this point, it sounds to me like that's what you're feeling. No, I honestly feel that way. I don't think the truth is going to come out and I don't and I've discussed it with my family and I just said, you know what, my family and I we need we need to move on. This is sad, but we appreciate your efforts. I will always support Sloth and what you've done. I think you've done an admirable job. You know, what do you do when you have a pathological liar and that's the only source you can get to. I mean, boy, you're you're taking that's a toy. Cause there when I talked to him on the phone, he was like, oh my god. If I had not known Dan, I thought we had gone back ten years

because he was that charming. But then something about what he was saying and how he said and what he was abating, I just said, yikes, this is not the Dan I knew. This is a different man that sitting in Quentin. And I pretty God will guide him and what he's going to do. But that's his call. And as far as all the people have been involved, I'm just I'm so sad for the families and for what everybody went through, the lives that were touched. But I appreciate the effort you put forth. Do you put a gallant effort forth? And in the end, the story is not finished. We don't know how it completely ended, and we won't. I just don't think we will. And who knows when Dan's gonna tell the truth or not. I don't know. Are you still Are you still planning on going to see him on January onee? No, No, I cut that off. I've it hurts too much. I can't. I'm not going to spend two hours and you know, I'm not going to spend two hours be like too, And that's about what it's going to turn out to be. It's that's what that's I just don't want to do that. And I'm just it's it's a waste of my time. And I've I've waited heavily. I prayed about it, I thought about it. I said, no, I said, I got to let let's go. You know, I've I hope you're able to pursue however further you're going to pursue, But that and is not ever going to tell you the truth because I don't think honestly, Dan Wisnia knows the truth. You know. The one thing about the truth versus a lie, you don't have to remember the truth. It's always going to be there. It's those lies that you have to sort it out and go, oh, was that the truth? Is that the truth? He knows the truth, he just refuses to share it for whatever reasons. No, I don't know, but I wish, I wish his family, his mom very well, that I've always turned but Dan, right now, I'm very frustrated with I mean, well, very frustrated Daniel. We appreciate you coming on and telling us everything and sharing with us, and I can hear in your voice how painful this all is, and I know how much it meant to you to be able to reach out to him and and maybe get some answers so that there could be justice all around here. But thank you for all your efforts, Daniel, and we will keep in touch. Okay, thank you learned that was a surprise, that was that was indeed, and uh, it's unfortunate, but I think he just learned a lot more about his old dear friend, Daniel Wozniak than he probably didn't want to accept um till now. Yeah, I guess the moral of the story is people change and whether you believe they can change it not. It sounds like, I mean, you could hear the hurt in his voice when he's talking about how much of a different person he is compared to the Danielle knew he was planning on seeing him January one and San Quentin, but I guess the phone calls are just too much to bear. So this was just a phone call that he had with him. He's had several almost daily in the last couple of weeks. So the fact that he's decided against visiting him says a lot. Yeah, it does. I wonder if that's going to change. I don't know. I wonder I wonder if this if maybe he was a source of support for him, even though he's not apparently being honest with him, if he was some sort of source of support, and the lack of phone calls, because it sounds like he's done. It sounds like he just just done. So I wonder if the lack of this contact might make him change his tune a little bit, maybe to come maybe to get him to come around. So, I don't know. I don't know. He has the blogger, yeah, that reaches out to him, and and his mother, and I think they both are there for him, whether it's financially or emotionally or otherwise. They they're the two that really are the steady influences in his life at this point. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see if we see something on dateline or CNN or the news at some point that things have changed, maybe that would be even better. So let's begin now your questions that you've collected from various listeners I have, so I wanted to get started by kind of refreshing everyone's memory on what made you so passionate about the story. It really had a connection with my children and the fact that these were all musical theater people that were involved in this case, and I just I couldn't imagine that a person for musical theater would be capable of chopping up there, you know, killing their friends in there in the attic of a theater where they're performing in and chopping them up. It's just it was like the real life Phantom of the Opera. And it just shook me to the core because one of my daughters could have been kissing Daniel Wasna on stage, and that really did horrify me. And for so long, for so many years growing up as kids and even into college, my kids were passionate about musical theater. That was a safe haven for them, and so I had to find out what happened here. I mean, it almost sounds like he's two different people. The one person on stage that that's kissing girls and pretending to whatever, and then the other person who is even remotely whether it's from outside forces or not even remotely capable of taking such an action. And that's probably and I think I'd have to agree that's part of one of the reasons it's been this is Sleuth has been so compelling for me is to hear the story of what happened, how it happened, and are you serious a person like that can do that well? Funny? His favorite one of his favorite roles in musical theater was jackal and Hyde. The irony, the irony. Um So getting into the questions. One of the things we talked a lot about was some of the comments on Facebook and everywhere the podcast can be heard. I heart the app One of the things that a lot of people had kind of talked about is obviously your motivation, your long term goal for this particular podcast, this season of Sleuth, and whether it's to help the prosecution to get to to obviously to uncover a lot of information, which I think you've been amazingly successful at doing so. Certainly, congratulations on

doing that, because you've obviously worked really hard. Do you feel like you've been successful. As this is the final episode, do you feel like this has been a success. Well, I sure hope that Deep Throat decides to call in. Is that I think would be the final piece of the puzzle. And I never like to walk away from a puzzle unless it's finished. While I can share with my listeners what she told me, obviously, it would be incredible if, if, if she could come forward and and and tell tell, tell the story herself. But I have worked very hard and I appreciate you recognizing that. And I do feel like even if the justice that I was hoping for for the victims families, even if some of these others that were involved in this horrific tragedy, if they weren't brought to justice, at least from a social media aspect, and at least for all of my listeners, they know the truth. They know what happened here. Um, you might not have found it out in the courtroom, but social media could be a whole another courtroom in and of itself, because nobody is going to google any of these people's names without having them connected to this case. And I think the more people that listen to Sleuth, the more they're going to know how deeply they all were involved. Do you feel like I mean, obviously, listening to the show, it's not hard to see that what you're trying to do is come up with evidence. Neither the prosecution chose not to present or couldn't find themselves. Probably, I'm guessing they've got a lot of money that the budgets pretty big. They've got some deepockets over there, probably have most of the information I would imagine that you've presented. Um, do you think your motivation had anything to do with wanting to compel them to release some of the information or to use some of that information. Well, I just wanted the public to understand that you're not always going to get the truth in a courtroom. You're not gonna always here everything that happened in a case from a courtroom, or even from headlines or broadcast shows like Dateline or or forty eight Hours. There's only a limited amount of time they have to tell a story, and it's usually based on the goings on and the happenings in the courtroom. So I just thought, in this particular case, because there was a narrative that it was Dan and Dan alone, that's just struck me as not entirely truthful, that I felt like there was more to this story, and if I continued on the path of learning and and connecting with other people that were involved in the story, that I would get the answers that would flush out the picture of what really happened to Sam and Julie and to expose who else was really involved into what extent. And the only way to do that is is get out there and do investigating, you know, and just stick with it and and even if you're an island, onto yourself sometimes because when you're telling the truth and when you're investigating a case like this, you can't always please everyone all the time. There's

going to be hurt feelings at some point, there's going to be people that disagree with you or or want to dismiss you. But you can't let that stop you. You have to keep going because that is the only way you get the full picture, is to just keep going and keep interviewing people and keep learning the story behind the story. More people involved, like two sets of footprints maybe. Um, So, speaking of time, how much time do you think you've put I mean, you said it was what five years ago or so? That you first heard about the story. If you had to quantify, just off the top of your head, if you had to pick a number, how much time do you think you spent us in addition to the podcast on this particular case, Well, it was early December when I first heard about it. So it's been three years years. And I think the fact that you know, my children are are raised in our young adults, living their lives and they don't need necessarily my physical time as much as they used to. Um And because I'm not married, and it's probably going to remain that way if I continue to be investigative reporter I have. I have my time to choose how and where I use that time. So I I just I'm a seven day a week girl. Whenever someone calls or I hear from someone or a source that says, you know, meet me at such and such diner at midnight, I go. And yeah, I mean I don't have anybody to answer to. I don't have to like sneak out of a bed or have dinner ready at a certain time so that I can go somewhere to to talk to a new source. It's it's really my call, my decision, and my life. So I I chose to commit my life to this case because of the reasons I told you earlier, and because I care so much about the families, And I felt like there was a certain level of political expedients to this case because it was a death penalty case, because there was a diving force in the District attorney's office where they needed to win this at all costs, because their cameras were in the courtroom. They weren't going to lose in front of the cameras. There was a narrative that Dan and Dan alone committed these crimes, and it just didn't sit well with me. It sounds like there's plenty of evidence to prove otherwise, but for one reason another political or not, they aren't interested. Perhaps would you agree In the end, it's it's all about justice and we have to have faith in the justice system. If we lose faith in the justice system, we lose everything. So, speaking of politics, there's a new d A. After over twenty years, there's a new DA. Do you think Todd Spitzer, in your opinion, is going to maybe re look at this well. I've been told he's aware of the podcast and that he has been listening and oh, it's my earnest hope that he does re examine the case of Rachel Buffett as well as Tim and know A Buffett. But it's too early to be able to predict where he would potentially go with that, and we'll see. I wanted to address just to put it out there. I listened to the obviously the press conference where you were called out. That's pretty powerful stuff. So just to put it out there plain English, do you believe Daniel Wisnac belongs on death row? I think in the episode where Scott Sanders, Scott Moxley and Paul Wilson, who was actually a victim of Scott to Cry, he lost his wife of twenty six years at the hands of Scott to Cry, and Scott to Cry was another client of Scott Sanders, besides Daniel Wozniak, And I point blank said to the defense counsel, have I ever once said that I don't believe Daniel woznia belongs on death row? And his answer to that was no. Now, if there was ever a person in this story that I would potentially say that too, it would obviously be the defense counsel too. Schmooze my way into some kind of a trusting relationship, right, But I don't do that. That's not how I operate. I I believe that Daniel Wozniak is where he belongs. No matter how many times Matt Murphy says it, I have never once claimed otherwise. Well, I haven't heard it on the podcast myself, but as I said, I just wanted to come around to it one more time. I think Daniel Wisnia believes he's where he's supposed to be. Yes, I do. I think. I think part of that conversation we just heard from Daniel hulk Yard was him sort of saying, listen, leave me alone. I took the I'm taking the responsibility for all of it. If you keep going, other people could end up sitting in the cell next to me. And I don't want that. I'm I'm where I'm supposed to be and just leave it be. I think that's not Linda. So I kind of wanted to get into some more of the not quite as heavy questions. This is this and again this is probably gonna be the last one for me, and I've got a whole bunch of questions from the listeners that I'm really excited to get into episode seven. That was where you interviewed Rachel Buffett's ex boyfriend who happened to be her father's age or so something along those lines. A lightning rod of an episode. Yes, it was. It certainly was, and there were a lot of questions about that episode, primarily there was a lot of talk about flirtation during that episode. I heard it. I brought it up to you. We were talking on Facebook. I mentioned it to you. I said, Wow, that's interesting. How was that in studio? And your response to me was, I gotta tell you. I was stunned by the reaction that episode received. My partnering Crime Mike, who is my audio engineer, and uh, he was in the studio with me, and we left thinking, yeah, he's a character, but what a wonderful opportunity to open a window into a crazy world that the listeners would have never heard before. And never once did we say to one another, boy, he was really flirting with me or I was really flirting with him. I'm just not someone that even really. I mean, I know this might sound crazy, but I don't even really know how to flirt. I don't I've I've long passed the years in my life of flirting, and so for me, I'm always focused on extracting the story out of someone, extracting the truth out of them, telling, listening to

them, and and and trying to engage them make them feel comfortable in the situation. Obviously, there was laughter that I was also criticized for, and I thought we tried to touch upon that at the end of the episode by saying, the levity is is what sometimes makes you feel more at ease when you're sharing the most intimate details of a situation and a time in your life that maybe you're not altogether proud of, but yet you are courageous enough to come forward because if it helps, if it helps the case, if it helps the story, if it helps get to the truth for the victims families, He did that for them and and I I tried to alleviate his concerns about the laughter by saying, know, I have spent countless hours, week after week for years with with Steve hair, who first and foremost is one of the funniest men I've ever met, and I used to feel guilty about laughing, knowing why we were together, what we were talking about, what we were discussing, and he said, don't you ever feel guilty about laughing, because the fact that I can make you laugh and that we can find laughter and all this it keeps me alive. I remember you saying something about that it was for him, it was it was sort of his purpose at this point, and so you know, I apologize to any listeners that I offended. That certainly was not my intention. And if anything, again, the point was to allow for this person to feel at ease and to feel that he was in a safe place to share a very uncomfortable story. I and I in to agree, And as I said to you before, I think this is what you do. You're and you're good at it. Sometimes you just kind of have to go with the flow. And if that means it's if that makes it sound a little bit less than quote unquote professional or less than um serious, then so be it. But at least you're getting information. And I will tell you I think when I was I was listening to it, I think the things that may be stuck out to people was not you so much. I mean, yes, it was laughing. But so when he he talked a lot about he talked a lot about getting laid and he and he made a few sexual innuendows. I think maybe that's his sense of humor. Maybe he's like that with a lot of people. Um. And then at the at the very end, he said, Oh, but you're just so charming and funny, and I think that probably is what And then I think you probably chuckled after that because oh, thanks whatever. I think that's probably where people got that impression. I think he's has a sarcastic tone to his delivery sometimes, and I think that he was just being himself. And I can't judge a person for being themselves. I can only expect and certainly hope for them to just come on and tell me the truth. That actually brings up a good question that I have. So do you feel I don't want to point in the finger at anybody in particular, do you feel like anybody came in here and didn't tell you the truth or maybe stretch the truth, or maybe it was just here because they went Wow, it's a big podcast with over two million listeners, and I could be famous if I'm on here. Do you think anybody had motivations other than the whole truth, nothing but the truth? So help me, Linda, I don't think anybody that came on, uh said anything about the truth. I've spent countless hours was just about everybody that came on the podcast, and also vetted a lot of what they said with other sources. I think that the people that chose in the end not to come on, maybe we're afraid that they weren't going to be able to tell the truth. And they knew that I knew the truth. So that's all I can say about that. As far as the people that were on the podcast, I'm a stickler for the details. I'll drive someone crazy with the details. I mean, I'll call and call again and again to make sure that I get it right. Or if their story changed a little bit, why why did the story change a little bit? What was the where is where in lies? What really happened? You know? I mean, let's go back again and revisit this conversation about what happened eight years ago, that sort of thing. But I do everything to make sure that I get it right that and so you should. And I think that's probably one of the reasons you've been so successful with the podcast and why you have so many regular listeners, thank myself included obviously, so let's get to the questions that people asked on Facebook. These are there, There's a there's a few, um and the first one, I think, just because Bob's interview was recent, I kind of want to start with this. So Blake Harrison asked on Facebook why did Tim go to Bob's house? And when he went to Bob's house? Did Tim know what he was getting himself into when revealing all of this evidence to Bob. When this person says why did Tim go to Bob's house, It's hard for me to answer because I'm not sure the time frame that these are referring to. I'm assuming I'm going to go with the assumption that this person is asking about when Tim went to Bob's house on Wednesday night talking about the gun, and he originally went to Bob's house on a Tuesday to share with him the debit cards, sims debit card to say he wanted to fill it with guests, and uh, let me involve you in my crime, right, And then I think that Lisa Golidge, who was his girlfriend at the time, had a lot to do with prompting Tim two do what he had to do to involve Bob in the revealing of of the evidence. She knew about the creative evidence. She she was there when it was put into Tim's car the night that they went to Dan's apartment. She knew. She even said to Bob Castillo, please help us so that Tim doesn't have to pay for a crime that Dan committed. Um So I think Tim going to Bob's the Wednesday night, the same night actually Dan was arrested, and I'm sure he found out Dan was arrested an hour earlier, and I'm sure Lisa then said he's arrested. The whole house of cards is going to come down. You have to get in front of this. You have to involve Bob and maybe he could help us get this gun to the police, the proper thorities to get it out

of your hands. And I think that's basically what happened there. As far as what was the second question, um did what did Tim know what he was getting himself into with the telling Bob about this evidence and to tag onto that he also wanted to know. Do you think Tim knew that Bob was going to roll on him as soon as I mean he did, he rolled on him pretty quickly. Do you think Tim knew that Bob was going to roll on him as soon as he had that evidence in hand, to make sure that he didn't get in trouble. Well, Bob didn't roll on him. What happened was is the the UH. The police ran the serial numbers on the gun and it came back to it was Daryl waznie X gun. And so Bob only knew what Tim was telling him, which wasn't much. It was one side of things. He was telling him the stories that Dan allegedly told Tim about what had happened with that gun, about how Sam. First he said that Sam had killed Julie with that gun and was on the run, and then he said at one point that another person was killed by Sam, so that there were two people that were killed by Sam, and so the stories kept changing. And the fact is is that Tim knew so much because he was there on the friday. He was there on the Friday when Dan came back with the first installment of money UH to give to Chris Williams, who loaned them the two thousand dollars to stave off the conviction. I mean Tim had the conversation with Dan during the intermission Saturday night in the nine performance when that young little boy overheard dance part of the conversation when he said, why did you have to break the window? When Tim did break a window to get into that apartment, he told him where the crate was to take the crate, the crate that had all of the bloody clothes and the tools that Dan used to dismember Sam's body. He told him where Sam's keys were to go sell the car. So Tim was involved ever since Friday of the murders, probably even earlier, but that's what we know at this point. So as far as how much did Tim know? Tim, Tim was looking to extricate himself as much as he could, but he was too involved. So I guess that I guess, maybe to rephrase the question, then, did Tim know while he was sharing all this information with Bob? Was it in Tim's even consciousness that everything he was saying was really quickly going to be shared with the police. I think Tim doesn't know the truth. Ever, he doesn't know how to tell the truth. From what I understand from his friends, Tim is just pathological, and so I think that Tim thought he could lie his way out of a situation. But yet somehow he did because he became a crucial witness for the prosecution for the state, and that is what saved him. That's they needed him so that they could dismiss any potential mental incapacitation defense from Daniel Wozniac. Well, he got what he wanted, I guess for now. Next question is from blithe Tyranny Diva on Facebook. The media referred to Rachel Buffett as an actress in quotes they weren't exactly specific as to her level or skill of an actress, but she took it as I'm an actress, I'm such a good actress. If the media had referred to Rachel Buffett as what she truly was quote want to be actress and not simply an actress, do you think that might have caused her to react differently to the media. And you think that if she thought she wasn't going to be famous from this or infamous or whatever, would she have maybe slipped up a little bit instead of feeling as if everyone bought her tetering, famed, innocent performance. I think Rachel's always about Rachel And one of the episodes was with Audrey McVeigh, who was their third wheel up until a week before the murders, and when the murders took place, and when the headlines were rampant all across the country, Rachel was certainly a player in in the telling of this case. Audrey had made a point of reaching out to Rachel and saying, can you know what can I do for you? I feel bad? Are you okay? Are you hanging in there? We're all the wedding plants were able to take care of the cancelation all that, And Rachel's response to Audrey was, why are you calling me? Because you just want fame. You just want you just want faming. You just want to be somehow attached to all this with me. And that was just horrifying to Audrey because that's the last thing she thought about or cared. But that just goes to show you the mentality of Rachel Buffett. So whether they called her an actress or want to be actress, or you know, half an actress, I think that Rachel was always going to look at this opportunity as her big break. I mean, one of the reasons I was told by a couple of her remaining friends was that she didn't want to take the plea deal that the prosecutor offered her up until a couple of weeks before her trial, which was a offer of accept and plead guilty to a misdemeanor and no jail and I'll expunge the misdemeanor after a year. She wouldn't take it because her thought process was, I'm not going to be able to have a book or a movie deal if I plead guilty to anything. But what if you're found guilty in the future. Well, she didn't think about that part. Again, the narcissism kicks in and you think, I'm gonna act my way out of this, and she went for this trial. What what boggles my mind is that she went all the way with this right and decided to play her card with a trial. Yet she didn't get up on the witness stand and speak on behalf of herself. She she she could have, and you would think that that would be the reason why she would go to trial, but she never did so. Christina Reynolds had a related question. Uh says, my question would be about Rachel's accessory conviction. Since she was convicted of the accessory charge, is it actually possible to move forward with a murder charge with the way of the law reads, would they have to throw away that conviction? Just curious on the on the legality. And that's actually a question that a lot of people have been asking. What now, as she done? Can all the seventh that ends that you've

accumulated that's probably somewhere on the annals of the Orange County District Attorney. Can this all be brought up by Todd Spitzer whomever? Um So, I guess the question is what can be done now to Rachel now that she's been convicted of just this seemingly small the two families of accessory after the fact. The law is simple. You can convict someone of an accessory charge and then you could subsequently charge them with murder or accomplice if there is a new act. If if new evidence and a new act comes forward that you weren't that wasn't used in your original charge and conviction of the accessory charge. If a new act comes forward, you can be charged with murder even though you've already been convicted of an accessory charge. So Mark Bigeinger, I hope I didn't mess up his name, asks how much involvement do you think Noah had? Given that the theater is on a military base. There's a couple of questions, given that the theaters on a military base, what federal laws are in place, and how do they work in relation to a civilian committee in a crime? And and his last question was is Tim still in jail on pro violations? So I'll do the last one. First, Tim is out. He was out about a week ago. And as far as the military base being federal grounds, at first, the FBI was involved and they were there on the scene when the when the when the body was found. But from what I understand from Mr Murphy, he said that the FBI is not as effective at prosecuting murders, so the they eventually relented and gave it to the d a's office. That's what I was told by Mr Murphy. As far as Noah's involvement, I think he certainly knew. He certainly sounded like he knew quite a bit of what was happening. When he visited this Spaths two days after Dan had confessed to the murders. He was an interesting Yeah. He went down to the Spaths with Rachel and her two leader bottle of vodka and he shared with John Spath how I mean John Spath was incredulous. He couldn't believe that Dan, the man that he had known for quite some time, because he had been dating his daughter for two years and they really considered him family. I mean they went on family vacations together, holidays, and so he did. He voiced to know how he found it shocking that Dan was capable of such horrific murders when he never saw any of those tendencies in him. And Noah said, yeah, no, I can believe it. We used to sit around and plan murders together, how we would get away with it, and and uh and honestly, I I think that the motivation was money, because he was being evicted and I was really pressuring him. I was like, what's going to happen, dude, I this is at least that's in my name and my credit is going to get destroyed. And he told John Spat that Dan told him as long as I could get four hundred dollars a day, he said, will be fine. What a miraculous number to pull out of the air exactly what they were doing, so, I mean, you can just deduce from there. Unfortunately, that's all we'll be doing because they just

let everybody else go. It seems like, well, the reason that the police said they didn't go further. They did originally charge him with accessory after the fact because in his car was underneath the driver's seat was Noah's car. Yeah, Noah's car was an envelope with four in it, which was the payment that they had received that day when they went by Wesley's house to pick up the money, and Noah was in that car. So breaking news on Sleuth. I think that's the first time we've talked about the that is the first time I mentioned the fo in his car. Yeah, so they arrested him for access way after the fact. But I asked the Coast to Mesa police why they didn't pursue charges against Noah, particularly after the Spats came forward and share with them what Noah was telling them, and they said, well, he was very helpful in convincing Rachel to take the stress test, the voice stress test. I said, well, what else is he going to say? Of course he's not going to say don't take it. It's gonna look guilty if he does that. So I I don't know. I scratched my head on that one. But there was a lot of scratching that went on in this case. So, speaking of co conspirators allegedly, Arlene Vorhees asks, how was any documentation in correlation with Tim's involvement kept out of any legal discussion discovery? Why wouldn't Daniel's defense want to bring that to light during the trial, even though Daniel would have adamantly fought against it. Well, that's a question that I have asked the Ends counseled directly, and there are certain questions he does answer for me, and certain he won't, and that's one he won't because he feels that that uh is a direct correlation to his strategy. But I can say what I feel. What my opinion is, which has always been my opinion throughout the investigation of this case, is that Daniel doesn't want anybody to point the finger and his brother. He doesn't want his brother to have to go down for any of this. He wants to take it all himself, which is why I think he was upset with Daniel holk Yard when Daniel Holker came on the show and talked about how he felt Rachel's involvement is really what took them to the dark side, and that Rachel was really the mastermind and all that because Rachel and Tim spent about a week together after Dan was incarcerated, after he confessed to the murders. She went to where the hotel where where Tim and Lisa Goulds were staying, and they did a whole bunch of smoking meth together, and I think that's where they talked about, Okay, you go down, I go down, whatever I mean. And that's been something that Tim told me directly. I mean Tim told me a matter of fact, we spent that week together and we decided if you go down, I go down. I mean, what else is that? I said, what does that mean? He goes? So I don't think Dan wants to roll over on anybody because he just doesn't want to feel guilty of involving them and and having them end up where he is. In fact, I was told by a source that he very specifically told this blogger that Daniel Halkyard refers to this blogger as a woman that has a website community she was in the theater community d and she has a website that says Daniel Wazniac is my best friend, or Daniel was Nac my friend, something like that and uh, Allegedly, Dan Wasniac told her that I'm very worried with this podcast and Linda Sawyer's investigation because I think if she keeps going, Tim will end up in a cell right next to me. So interesting that he's listening all of the information that's come out, like what is going on, He's got to be going nuts if he's got no matter what his um, no matter what he wants to put forth, it's here right. Obviously he also had a narrative, right, so the d A can have a narrative. Daniel Woznia can have a narrative. I'm about the truth, okay, so the truth is all that matters to me. And from what I understand, Dan is very upset with the investigation that Sleuth has brought forth, and and he actually directed the blogger woman to go speak to Tim while he was incarcerated, while he was in the county jail. Yeah, from what I understand, the bloggers shares with Dan certain elements of the podcast that she believes would irritate him or upset him. He's actually written to me and told me that he wanted to cooperate with me, but every time he mentions my name to her, it's like this Linda Blair peace bitting moment, and she, for whatever reason, I guess, feels some kind of rivalry, but I don't feel that way towards her. In fact, I have invited her on the program. She declined, But again, I'm all about seeking the truth. I'm never going to sugarcoat the truth, and that's the bottom line, and I don't want to hurt anybody in that process. That that is what my job is. And so if Daniel hears that Mike's injuries to his father is what exacerbated his death. I mean, he was a diabetic, he was a very sick man, but he wouldn't have died if he didn't have those injuries. And they were injuries that weren't tended to write away by medical professionals. So that's the truth, that's what happened, and I have to I have to share that with the public because again that's my job. So let's go back to talking to about Tim. Chris Baker said, given the way that Tim has seemed to always treat Dan, and you've been pretty clear in the podcast that he wasn't that he wasn't. Dan's the biggest fan um. Why is it then that, with us all this animosity, why do you believe that Dance continued to cover for him? I mean, he wasn't he wasn't his best friend, he didn't like him, he said bad things about him to his friends. Given all this, why still still why is he covering for him? Maryanne Wisniak his mom. The mom. The mom is all he has left besides the blogger woman. The mom financially puts money in his account every month so that he can have whatever amenities at San Quentin provides, And he doesn't want to disappoint her anymore than he already has. I mean, let's face it, this woman's been through Helen back. All three boys have just been an absolute

painful nightmare for her. I mean, no matter what happened in that house, no matter what went on, and what's the cause of it, we might not ever know, But how much can one woman take? And so I think that because she only has tim left, I think that he will do anything to make sure that he's free to still be in her life, whether or not she hears a recording of her eldest son talking to her middle son about when mom is dead, When will mom be dead even even knowing that and even hearing that Tim is still all she has because Mike has been banished and Dan's sitting on death row. So that brings me to a good question follow up question from Jamie Carroll. Clearly there was something going on in the Wallasniac family. How do all of the boys come out as such horrible people? And would you consider that lack of parenting or overparenting. Well, I don't want to judge Marianne Wozniak in her role in all of this. I can only tell the listeners what I've learned from family members, which was that Marianne was a working mom and her mother really was the caregiver in the boys lives. Whenever there was a problem with one of the boys with someone else, it was always the other person's fault. It was always it's not you, boys, it's them, or or she'd always throw money at the problem. Bottom line is let them get away without any consequences to their behavior. And so that and the combination of the control Maryanne Wosnia desperately tried to hold onto with them. I mean, I think that when you're at work, you're a boss, right and you make decisions and choices, and people jump and listen and do what you ask of them. But she'd come home and didn't necessarily have that same control, even though she tried. She tried to dictate with them certain choices that they would make, and tried to tell them how they needed to live their lives, tried to control the people that they chose to date. And what happened was, in order to escape from that control, they started to lie. They started to lie because they wanted to please her and yet at the same time live their own life. And so the lies just became part of everyday living. It became part of their reality. And and I think lies turn into cheating and stealing and and then this lifestyle of drugs, and it's all about the control or lack of control. And they said, no matter how hard they tried, they just couldn't live up to her standards. And so what do you do when you feel like you're less than You just say the hell with it and you just kind of go crazy in your life and do whatever makes you happy at the moment, or escape it in some way in any way, because you're constantly aware that you're not able to please this woman you're supposed to love, right, and that's supposed to be there for you unconditionally. But she was never happy with anything that they did. So when it came time for them to break out and do something on their own. So I think that if they stayed within her boundaries of what was acceptable Christian behavior, they

would try to walk that line. But they're boys, and they wanted to go do some wild things too, and and that was just scorned upon and and uh and so the lies began, and that began. I think the whole, the whole unfortunate life of crime. Wow, says a lot. It says a lot. So Becca and Mendoz asks, well, the Hair and Kibewishi families file a civil case against Rachel or Tim for their involvement. I think that's a really good question because obviously more of the details that haven't been answered, like the bloody shoes, the sneakers that they pulled out of Tim's closet with grass on them, the footprints in the attic, the dusted prince in Sam's car that were never validated, than the results were never found out. I think all those things would come to light in a civil case. I don't know if the families can withstand going through a civil case. They've been through a lot, and this has been an arduous process. That's been many years that they've had to go to court, and uh so, whether or not they have the fortitude to go through it again, I don't know, but I think they'd get a lot of answers if they did. I think you're probably right. So Leslie Ashley had a few questions. The first question is if Rachel and Dan were so broke, how are they paying for their wedding, even the modest wedding. And I can tell you from experience because I've worked in weddings, even the modest weddings are at least a few thousand dollars. And were his parents invited to the wedding? So to answer the question about payment, I had met Rachel's parents and one of the pre trial hearings, one of Rachel's pre trial hearings, they sat in front of me and we talked at Lengthen one of the things that Mr Buffett wanted me to be clear about was that he was paying for the wedding. That they had gone to a local restaurant and they had worked out some kind of arrangement where they were able to get some kind of a discount for the food, the buffet, whatever. So it was really just the honeymoon that Dan was supposed to be responsible for, and uh, yeah, so he was. He he was paying for that. As far as Dan's parents being invited, I think that they were invited, but he had come up with some kind of a phony email that he had sent to them, because in the end, I don't think he really wanted them to come. So he sent an email saying, you know, get back to us if you want to come or not, and then they answered, but they answered an email that never went to anybody. So the buffets thought that they just didn't want to come because they didn't respect Rachel. So again, it was just part of all of the manipulations of of Dan and all all of the lies and Deceit was Mike Wosniac ever charged for the attack on his dad. No, not at all, not at all. Ever reported the police because that's what Daniel Holacar mentioned. I think that Daniel Wozniak was upset with I did say that Marian Buffett refused to allow Darryl to go to the emergency room because Dan Wozniak, her son's trial was in the process of happening, so she was worried another Wisnia headline because with the injuries that Darryl had, there was no question that the authorities would have been called by the r doctors and she knew that. So he didn't have the medical tension he needed at the time he needed it. That was told to me, not only by Tim, but by Kathleen Comfort as well. And as I told you, Bob Kristilla in the episode twenty says, I came there the night he was beaten up and it was horrific. I mean there were two black eyes, bruises all over his legs, blood everywhere. It was just awful. That's now, this is just this is as follow up from me. That's murder, that's technically maybe second degree. Their still murder and there's no statute on that. Do you think that could come back after the information you've perhaps from Bob's testimony, from Bob's interview, the information you Vancard, do you think that could come back to Mike. I don't know if the d A or the authorities want to look at anybody at this case. Other than Dan Wosney act. I hope they look at everybody. I hope that they examine Rachel and Tim and Noah and Mike. I think I think they all deserve the scrutiny of a proper vetting of new charges on these people that were involved in these crimes. So Leslie Ashley also asked did Scott Sanders ever have a clue or hint to the informant scandal prior to the Woesniak into Chry case or was this the one thing that really brought the whole thing to bear. I think the combination of Scott Sanders having Daniel Wozniak as a client as well as Scott to Cry as a client, he was able to sort of cross reference both of his files and both of his findings, and and and and through that process he found out about these informants and what was going on, and that sort of blue it all up from there. But it was because he had that unique perspective of having both of these clients at pretty much the same time. Gene Hopkins asks what level of contact does Dan's mom and Tim Wilsniack maintained with Dan at San Quentin? Tim never sees Dan never talks to him, never sees him, didn't see him when he was in County Jail. Went to see him once with his mother when Darryll died the father um. But mary Anne she sees him quite often. She goes up for holidays. Understanding, My understanding is that Marian is pursuing the purchase of a condo up there. I know that Tim told me that his eyes got a little watery when he told me that, because I said to him, well, what about you, You're still here, and he said, that doesn't matter to my mom. So yeah, so there's definitely a rivalry there. There's no doubt about it. Whether or not Mary Anne can appreciate it or recognize it, I don't know. But it seems as if her focus is still on Danny, not Tim, which may be the reason will according to Bob, is the reason that Tim held so much hostility towards Dan, and I think that's correct, and I think that I think also she's she's an elderly woman, she was an older mom. And how many times can you put your son in rehab? I mean it's been

countless half a dozen times, in and out, in and out. How much money can you spend, and she doesn't like spending money. She has money, but she's very frugal, so she is one that would rather not spend money. I mean, in the case of Daniel Wasniac's defense, I mean, he was represented by a public defender, A damn good public defender. I mean, honestly, he was very fortunate in the lawyer that he had. But yeah, why not. Why she's got the money? This is her baby question. I thought, with all that money, you'd think top notch. I mean, I come from New York City, so you pay for what you get as far as defense counsel and as far as justice. And when I first came into this courtroom, I actually had a friend with me at the time, and that friend turned to me. And this was when Matt Murphy was sitting at the you know, the prosecution table, and Scott Sanders was at the defense table with was the exitting next to him. And Scott got up for some motion and started talking, and my friend turned to me and said, who's paying for him? And I turned back, I said, you are, and and that'sender a public defender. But I guess in Orange County the public defenders off is the community pays a decent amount of money for top notch lawyers, and so for people that are indigent or people that don't have the means that they have, they have good counsel that they have options for their representation. So, speaking of was next representation, Cheryl Scotchio asked what was next defense? He obviously freely admitted everything and brought the police to the body. So why did he plead not guilty? Was he given the chance to plead guilty and avoid the death penalty? He was not given the chance. It was asked, and it was turned down by the public. The public defender asked for that, and the d A said no. And the fact that they went to trial was because he was trying to fight the death penalty. So l Bush wants to know at what point in the story did Rachel and Tim stop visiting rioting expressing support Dan. Well, as I said, Tim really never did support Dan, and Rachel stopped within a month of his incarceration. She from what he told Steve Hair. Steve Hare had visited Dan several times while he was in County jail waiting for his trial, and he told Steve Hair that Rachel came one day about a month into his time there, and walked up to the glass plated window and just put her two hands up in the air with and flipped him two birds and walked out and he never saw her again. And he has no idea why. Wow. Well, the next question I was gonna ask you is does he know how quickly she moved on? But I guess that sort of explains it. Well. I think after listening to this podcast, he knows how quickly she moved on. And also in the trial he heard the statements about her of what she said to police the morning after he was arrested for accessory after the fact. Remember he was arrested Wednesday night from his bachelor party, and then that early the next morning, three o'clock in the morning, she was taken

from coast from cam to Martinique to the Coasta Mesa police station and it's there that she said that you know, he wasn't the greatest lover, he didn't have a lot going on downstairs, and she wasn't crazy over the top about him, but that was okay. So all these things were said in court, in open court. In fact, I can recall Steve Hair getting up in the courtroom and sort of turning around to all of us and had this like chess their cat smile on his face because they were talking about the size of Dan's penis and that made him happy. So but uh, yeah, I think I think Dan had a pretty good idea after that incident with her flipping him the birds, that that she was done with him. M So, speaking of Steve Hair, a question I actually had that I was gonna ask earlier. He's upset you. You've talked a bit about him being upset with you, and I just wanted to see if you mind going telling us why and what your opinion is, and do you think there's any possibility to reconcile in the future. I've tried. It's definitely painful. I care very deeply about theirs and I want what's best for them, and I reminded them that I made a promise to their son and I have continued to keep that promise. And part of that is the ability to reveal the truth about this case. And the reason his son was a target was because of his background, because Sam shared his background with them, and when I invite guests on my show and I interviewed them just like you're interviewing me right now. I don't ever intend to censor anybody or two delete or edit out answers that they give me, because that's not what a journalist does. A journalist exposes the truth. A journalist digs deep till they get to the truth. And part of that is allowing guests to come on and tell their story and tell what they know. And so when I asked Scott Sanders the question about what what did he perceive as the most egregious ruling that Judge Connelly had imposed during the case, and he said the fact that he wouldn't allow Sam's passed in as a killer. He used the word killer. I think he probably regrets that word, but that's the word he used, and that's what he said. That was his sentiment because he felt the prosecutor opened up that door by sharing with jurors how Sam was a decorated veteran and presenting this image of Sam as as this person that should be honored and admired, which his time in the service should be honored and admired. Right, But because legally the prosecutor opened up that information, he also opened up the door to the defense counsel saying okay, but we should know then, the whole story of Sam Hair, which included this past where Sam was charged with murder. So that's, in essence, the core of why the Hairs we're upset with me? And I find it very disturbing that the prosecutor in this case took advantage of that situation by saying that I am somehow denigrating Sam's past, that I am denigrating Sam's memory when there's over thirty five hours of content in Sleuth, and four minutes of it was dedicated to that conversation. And so the thrust of my work and what I've done here has all been in memory of Sam and Juley's so that they can rest in peace knowing that everyone involved in their murders has faced some consequences. And That's always been my intent, and that's what I've always hoped would be the final impression of my work. Wow. So the last question I think this is pertinent. This is Leslie Ashley. Again, a lot of people from Dan's past have said some very good things about him, about who he was, their impressions and so on. What do they or you think is really wrong with him? Is he just a psychopath? That say, able to charm and manipulate people. There's all kinds of reputable people defending his character. What do you think to kind of wrap this up, what do you think it is really the issue? As he just really thinks he's a really good actor. Do you think he was going to get away with it or do you think there's really perhaps something deeply wrong that would make him do what he did. Well, there's clearly something deeply wrong with him, and no, he's not a very good actor. I think the reputable people that the listeners are referring to are people that have since realized they didn't really know Dan Wassniak at all. I mean, you heard Daniel Holkyard today say myself and my family were pulling away here, we're done. I don't know who this person is, and maybe they never knew who this person is. In the fact, the Spaths said the same thing by the end of their episode. We're not condoning anything he did. Uh. We we think that we were duped by Dan and we never really knew him. So I think that, ah, the reputable people have far left Dan's side, and I think Dan, from a very early age learned how to live two different lives and and the dark one took over. It's unfortunate because now there's two less people walking around because of him, and maybe a few more people that have yet to be prosecuted. You got it, Well, this has definitely been illuminating. I'm glad to hear you say so. I um definitely appreciate the opportunity. And you didn't hold anything back. And I'm really happy for all the questions and thankful that everybody stepped up and and they were really good questions. There were a lot, and again thank you to everybody on Facebook and everybody to ask questions, because there was a lot of good stuff there. I mean, I had a few that I've been asking you, but some of the stuff they asked, I went, wow, yeah, that's I didn't think about that. So I'm glad they were there. And I'm really uh pleased with the ability to be able to do this for the listeners because the listeners the end are so important to me because they inspire me, and they they keep me motivated to stay on course, to stay on track, and and I'm so grateful for each and every one of them. So I hope that I have been able to address all of their questions. Uh, and I hope that they feel that they now know more than they did before. And there you go Season one of Sleuth.

Thank you, thank you. Before I say goodbye to all of my listeners at the conclusion of Season one of Sleuth, I first need to explain the condition of my voice. We have been recording the finale episode now for the past two days, and at the end of yesterday's session, I'm sure you could hear my voice was starting to go, and this morning I pretty much lost it. I suppose it's pretty ironic that after over three hundred interviews and this relentless, exhaustive investigative journey I've been on for three years, I was bound to lose my voice on the very last day. So bear with me, because I am going to share with you scratchy voice and all what I know after spending time with my sorece Deep Throat. At the beginning of this episode, I told you that I had been trying for weeks to persuade Deep Throat to come forward. I had lunches and dinners and phone calls and texts, and while she did tell me everything she knew, she was trepidacious about coming forward. I tried to explain to her that it would be helpful not only for the victims families, but we could go to the police, we could go to the New d A and share with them everything that she knew. But she still felt that the consequences of her coming forward were too severe, too grave, and so I promised her, while I was going to tell the details of what she shared with me to my listeners, I would still maintain her anonymity and not reveal her identity unless I had her blessing. So I've decided to call Deep Throat on air right now for my final attempt to see if she will in fact come forward on her own and share all she knows about her conversation with Rachel Buffett and Rachel Buffett's role in these murders. All has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system is not available at the town. Please recall in your message when you have finished recording. You may hang up or press one for more options. Hi, this is Linda Sawyer from Sleuth. I wanted to give you one last opportunity to share with the listeners everything that you shared with me regarding your conversations with Rachel and her confession to her role in the murders of Sam and Julie Kibuishi. I guess no matter what was said, you know that you can rely on me to maintain the anonymity of your identity. I had only wished that somehow you had found the courage to come forward, because it would mean so much to so many people, most importantly for the memory and for the souls of Sam and Julie. Have a good day. I tried, ye. So there you have it, my last attempt at getting Deep Throat to come forward. So let me share with you everything that I know based on my conversations with Deep Throat. It starts with a gentleman by the name of Billy Elliott, and Billy Elliott was Rachel Buffett's boyfriend when they met at Medieval Times. They started dating, and they had maintained a relationship from medieval times all the way to not Sperry Farm, which is where Billy now works, and Rachel knew many of the people that worked there as well. In the cast Billy

would often have parties at his house, cast parties, and it was there that Deep Throat first Rachel Buffett and they developed rapport and Rachel felt comfortable I suppose because she was actually one of the only women at these parties, and so she would pull her into a room privately and and so of open up about the role she played in the murders of Sam Harry and Julie Cabuishi, and she basically over time, this was several encounters, she confessed that she knew everything and she was in on the plan from the beginning. But she was one thing that she said the Deep Throat that was really disturbing, Well, there were many things that were disturbing, but the one thing that really struck Deep Throat is so odd was that she really didn't think there was anything wrong with her not coming forward. Rachel just didn't understand why it was a bad thing that she didn't tell anybody about the plan. I mean, honestly, could you believe this? I just it just escapes any logical, reasonable thinking. But that's what she told her. And she said the brothers, Tim Tomosniak and no A Buffett they all knew too, they were all involved in the planning. And Deep Throat went a step further and told me details that Rachel told her about the crime scene, specific details about the crime scene that, in deep Throat's mind, only someone that was there for the murders could have known. I specifically asked her, do you think Rachel was there for Julie's murder? And she said yes, based on what Rachel told me. And and think back about Who's interview with Ashley Mathis, when Ashley Mathis told us the story about Rachel barging into their apartment and just heading right for the deck because the deck was right opposite Sam Harre's apartment, and she clearly wanted to see into Sam's apartment and to see who was there or what you could see from that deck, for fear that maybe Ashley or Haley, her roommate, could have seen Rachel there. I mean that when I told the defense counsel that he he said, I wish I knew that story, because that, to me is quite damning. There's no other reason why Rachel would have done that a day after Dan confessed to the murders. She wouldn't have done that for Dan's sake. She would have done that for her sake. We know at this point that Rachel pretty much makes decisions and choices based on whatever it is that works well for her. So it all fits, doesn't it. Deep Throat also told me there was another person that Rachel also confessed this story too in the details, so there are two people. I guess that Rachel decided it was time to tell the truth. But the most frightening element to what I learned from my conversations with Deep Throat is that Rachel Buffett, Billy Elliott, and a host of other actors who met in Nottsbury Farms decided to venture out on their own to produce a cheap back galley, low budget film starring Rachel Buffett, with the subject of the murders of Sam Hare and Julie Kibuishi. How they portrayed her role in all this remains to be seen because the movie is top secret and supposedly Billy Elliott only has a copy to this movie. The making of this movie and the subject matter that's portrayed shows how demented this woman's mind is that she would choose this subject matter for a movie that she started. After learning about this movie depiction, this sick, demented movie that was shot about Sam and Julie's murders, I immediately reached out to Lieutenant at Effort at the Costa Mesa Police Department and asked him if we could meet regarding new information that I learned. His response was that he couldn't meet with me because the case of Sam Her and Julie Kabie she is essentially close posed, but that if I had any additional information or evidence that I should reach out to the Costa Mesa detective now in charge, which is Sergeant Scott Stafford, which I planned to do at the conclusion of this episode. And with that, folks, I hope that you have been able to appreciate all the work that myself and my team at Sleuth has put into this journey that started three years ago and is ending today. And I feel so honored that each and every one of you took the time out of your lives to spend time listening to Sleuth, recognizing and acknowledging the work, and sharing it with your friends and associates, And truly, from every chamber of my heart, I thank each and every one of you, because without you, we might not see justice. And it's because of the power of the people and the amalgamation of all of your voices that can help pressure authorities and the justice system in Orange County to do the right thing that maybe, for once we might see complete justice for Sam and Julie. Thank you, God, bless and have a wonderful new year. If you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth, share it with a friend and be sure to leave a rating or review. Follow Sleuth on I Heart Radio, or subscribe where every you listen to podcasts so that you never miss an episode.