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00:00:47
S1: On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye Dog Show with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. Today I'm joined by Poppy development trainer Steph Shaw, who's going to be talking to us about some of the spooky Halloween things that your dog might see out and about, and how we can work out whether our dogs are concerned and what we can do about that to help build their confidence and resilience, not just at Halloween, but around the year as well. I hope you enjoy these tips from Steph talking about Halloween and spooky things.
00:01:21
S2: I'm Steph, I work as a puppy development trainer at Seeing Eye Dogs, and I would love to give you some tips for how to work with your dogs around Halloween.
00:01:33
S1: So just to start off, what are some of the things that might be spooky during the season?
00:01:39
S2: It really depends on your dog. It's really funny because some of the things that we find scary or things that we think a dog would be spooked by. You know, kids dressed in funny costumes and skeletons hanging in dogs give like they don't care. It's just like, whatever. Ho hum. Oh, bones hanging from a tree. That's great. Love it. And then there'll be freaked out by something completely random, like a flappy black plastic bag or something like that. So it can be a little bit hard to predict sometimes, but you'll already have a pretty good sense of your own pet dog, whether they're a really confident dog and nothing fazes them, or they're the kind of dog that jumps at a leaf or a shadow. So, you know, just just be looking out for expecting unusual, weird things and that dogs that are somewhere in between, maybe normally pretty good, but it's the new stuff that might catch them by surprise. Those are the ones that we can really help by just being mindful and doing a little bit of prep work and planning.
00:02:47
S1: I guess those things that you said about the, the flappy things is like sometimes you'll see a cardboard painted a pumpkin or a ghost or something, and it's like the dogs are afraid of it being a pumpkin or a ghost. The dog is just kind of walking past and then see some like quick movement kind of flapping around. And then they're not even aware that it's supposed to be spooky. It's just is.
00:03:05
S2: Yeah. The ones that get a lot of dogs is actually like, if anyone has any Halloween decorations and they look like they're statues or inanimate, and then they suddenly move and go, whoa, those ones are pretty much a guaranteed jump scare for any dog. So yeah, those are the the kind of things to be aware of, I guess.
00:03:26
S1: Yeah, those are definitely the ones that scare me too. To be fair, those motion motion, sensory ones, I'm always like, oh, it's a person. And then no, it's not. And it still gets me every time. Yes. So when you are walking your dog, how might you know if you're if they're unsure or afraid of something in the environment, what are some of the signs that they might be nervous or afraid?
00:03:49
S2: Sure. So I mean, sometimes it's really obvious. Like if they literally something. Yeah. A skeleton turns towards them and goes, whoa. And they like jump and go, oh. And they kind of tuck their tail between their legs and they're scrambling to get away. That's really obvious. But maybe what people miss is the more subtle sort of signs that a dog's just a little unsure, or maybe needs a little bit more support than normal. So that could be things like if they were normally, you know, quite confident and tail up and wagging as they kind of go along. If you start to notice that there's hanging back a little bit, clinging a bit closer to you, tucking the tail is back. You might see dogs do things. We call them displacement signals. It's little things that dogs do that are, I guess, the same as like a person might chew their fingernails or like twiddle with their hair or pull out their phone and look at it. If they're just feeling like a little bit unsure, you just get busy fingers. I guess for dogs, those sorts of things will be licking their lips. Or like you'll see a little tongue flick as they lick their nose. And you might see them do that a lot within a short space of time. You might see them doing a lot of sniffing at places where normally they wouldn't care. There's nothing that interesting to sniff, and suddenly they're sniffing everything. Um, it's really hard to get their attention back. Sometimes you'll see them do things like they might get a little bit of a spook, and then they try and like literally shake it off. So you might see them shake as if they had got wet. Or they might do a big like yawn, even though they're not tired. And those sorts of things are telling us the dog was a bit tense, and they're trying to release the tension and kind of shake themselves back into like, oh no, it's fine. It was nothing. Sometimes you might notice dogs, um, that again are normally pretty controlled and they get almost like silly, excited, zoomie versions of being a little bit anxious. So you might notice them rushing and pulling when normally they'd walk quite nicely. You might have a dog that normally is quite polite around people, and suddenly they're really like wanting to rush up or bounce on people or really like, sniff them all over. So, you know, those are sort of signs where you're noticing basically a lot more activation energy or a dog that's like avoid it and inhibited. Those are some of the signs that you might notice. And barking is a big one, obviously. And that can be a one that is really obvious to us as dog owners, where we go, oh, they're barking because they're startled or worried or nervous or whatever. But if they're barking at a three year old in a cute outfit, sometimes that can make us feel really uncomfortable. And the parents feel really uncomfortable and might scare the kids. So I think it's always just good to be aware that your dog might see people in costumes and doing funny things, and even if they love
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three year olds normally, you know, they might have those like, oh my God, it's a talking pumpkin moments.
00:07:20
S1: What is going on?
00:07:22
S2: Oh, it is going on. And so yeah, we're just mindful to give them a bit more space than you normally would. Yeah.
00:07:30
S1: It's interesting, like you said, it's kind of a bit of like knowing your dog, but also just the range of different responses that might come or the, the various ways that a dog might show their discomfort. Like it sounds like it really does depend on the dog and I mean severity, but also just individually, like whether they get super excited or whether they just kind of shut down and start sniffing something.
00:07:50
S2: Mhm. Yep. And I mean, I guess they're really similar to, to people in that, you know, you can have people that when they feel a little bit anxious, they're the kind of person that usually gets a little bit like silly and giggly and cracks jokes and are to kind of break the tension. And then you'll have the people who kind of like they get a little bit anxious and they kind of like get a bit quiet and start like, oh, just, just move away and just do my own thing. And so they've got kind of like sometimes you'll know your dog's personality type, but you could have dogs that alternate back and forth. Yeah. Um, it's all in the range of like, normal dog responses. And there's nothing wrong with any of those behaviors. I guess it's just information about how they're feeling in that moment in time.
00:08:41
S1: I guess it's one of those things. It's kind of natural. And they're allowed, they're supposed to feel fear to some, you know, you don't want them to be overly fearful. But fear has a function, right? I guess developmentally.
00:08:52
S2: Yes, yes. And you know, there's some dogs often those like little terriers and stuff, and they look as if they just don't have any fear responses and they will take on stuff that is legitimately dangerous.
00:09:06
S1: Like, no, don't do it.
00:09:07
S2: You're like, do not leap off that enormous wall. You will die. And they're like, yeah, watch me. So, you know, yes, fear has a purpose. There's a reason for it. And the dogs that are a bit spooked by Halloween costumes are the ones that are going to survive a real zombie apocalypse. So, you know, good on them.
00:09:27
S1: Well, unless the answer really was to befriend the zombies and some Labradors or Goldens might try that, maybe. Oh yeah.
00:09:34
S2: Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:37
S1: So if you do encounter something that your dog is either kind of unsure of, you know, they're starting doing some of those more subtle signs or they're scared of what should you do? Does it depend on what those reactions are?
00:09:48
S2: Yeah, absolutely. So it sort of depends on what the distraction is. So if it's like an inanimate object, so they've seen like a statue of a cat or something like that. And that's given them a bit of a spook and they're just a little bit concerned. So
maybe they've kind of noticed it startled and they're kind of like, oh, I'm not sure I want to walk past that. Often you can just do a little bit of like, oh no, it's fine buddy. Come and check it out and just get them in a happy mood. Talk to them in a happy voice. Maybe if you've got some fun treats or a squeaky toy or something like that, you can just bring their mood up and kind of, yeah, break the tension a little bit and encourage them to, to go and check it out. And I love the dogs who have that reaction of like, they'll see, you know, that silhouette or something like that or a fake spider. Oh my God, what is that? And you're like, no, no, it's fine. And, and they come up and they creep up really carefully and they sniff it and realize that it's cardboard or plastic or whatever. And then they're like, oh, oh, it's not real, you guys. It's not real. Oh my gosh, no, that was so silly of me. I just think that makes me giggle every single time.
00:11:02
S1: It's cute because they're like, oh, I'm so sorry I was being so ridiculous, but I know better. I do know this. I'm actually such a brave girl or boy. And you're like, oh yeah, yeah. That's it.
00:11:12
S2: Yep, yep. Yeah, yeah. So and then there's things where maybe it's a really big reaction and maybe a dog is legitimately freaking out and they're trying to get away. In which case, you're not going to drag a fearful dog into a situation where they're legitimately terrified because they're not thinking logically at that point. If you're talking to them in a happy voice and it's like they can't even hear you because they're too focused on whatever they're spooked by. Just bail. Just give them space, give them time, take them somewhere where they can just shake it off and have a bit of a sniff around and don't force them into situations where they're panicky. And especially so if what they were spooked by is a person, for example, for example, because we don't want to have a situation where the dog's telling us, I don't want to go near that, that zombie like in their head, the person dressed up, it's not a person, they're only seeing the costume. Maybe we don't want to see what happens if we force a scared, terrified dog into a situation where they think they're about to get eaten by a monster, you know, just yeah, it's it's, you know, not an everyday thing. We can just go, you know what? I'm just gonna cross the road. We get past this, and it's one day a year. You know what? Yeah, we can just avoid them.
00:12:37
S1: And I guess thinking about that, if you're on a walk and your dog does have a big reaction, is that when you'd kind of be best to turn back or go home because does it make a difference if they've seen one big thing, the next thing they encounter, would they be potentially as worried about that as well, if that makes sense?
00:12:53
S2: Oh yeah. Absolutely. So I mean, I'm sure a lot of people listening now, they might have been in a situation where you've been to a scary movie or something like that, where there's a lot of like tension. And then after the movie, maybe it's dark in the evening and you hear a noise and you have this like, oh no, it's fine, it's fine. Whereas normally that noise would cause zero reaction. But you're a little bit on edge because you've just watched a scary movie. And you know, dogs are really the same. Like if they've been primed, I guess, to be in a mood where they're watching for scary things and they're already a little bit shaken up, they're going to be a lot more quick to react to stuff than if they were just in a happy, cheerful, bouncy mood. And the scary thing appears, or a noise happens, they might go, huh? What's that? Oh never mind. So yeah, the mindset definitely matters. So I would if you think your dog's had a big scare and they're really having a terrible time, you know, just take them home. Whatever. Go go somewhere quieter for a walk later on. Something like that. Yeah.
00:14:05
S1: How might you get your dog involved in kind of Halloween and trick or treating fun.
00:14:11
S2: So one of the things, and it can vary depending on where you live because some people in their areas. There's a like trick and treat tradition in certain streets. They find other people get no trick or treaters at all, at all. But if you're in a situation where you're kind of expecting you might get some trick or treat visitors, that's a really good thing to prep for in advance. And I genuinely like including dogs in little activities. So the kids can say trick or treat, and you could get your dog to do a trick, and then the kids could throw them a treat. And it really just makes it a fun sort of experience.
00:14:51
S1: That's cute. That's so.
00:14:52
S2: Cute. Yeah. So yeah, it depends a bit on your dog, but yeah, it can really. Yeah. Just let them be part of the the holiday and make it a bit of fun. But you kind of want to be prepped in advance for that. So maybe you have some like extra tasty treats all ready by the door in a jar and you've maybe got a leash ready. So if someone comes, you can clip your dog on the leash. You You can show your dog that you've got the treats for the dog. So everything's kind of like calm and under control before you even open the door to people. And yeah, the leashes can be quite handy because sometimes people visiting may not love dogs. Most people do. But every now and again, it's the dog that's going to be the scary thing, rather than the person in the costume being the scary thing. So yeah. Yep. So if you wanted to take your dog with you, like if you were taking your kids, say, and you've got the dog along with you as a family outing, some people like to have little cute costumes for their dogs. And there's nothing wrong with that in my mind. Um, as long as the dog is comfortable in the costume. So just something to be mindful of. Some people can think, oh my gosh, it's amazing. My dog's all dressed up as a bee and it's the cutest thing ever. And the dog just
looks utterly miserable.
00:16:13
S1: So I'm not having fun here.
00:16:15
S2: I'm not having fun at all. So maybe try it on before the day and just. Yeah, make it a fun and gradual introduction. And if you think it would be the cutest thing ever to put a, like a one of those Elizabethan collar cones. The cones of shame on your dog and turn them into a martini glass. Super cute. It's a great like desensitization exercise, I guess, for if they needed it again for the vets. But you're going to like pair it maybe with a lot of yummy treats and lots of praise, and sometimes doing those things and people coming up and going, oh my God, they're so cute. Look, they're in Martini and giving them pats. That could actually be really fun and make those costumes or bits of equipment or something a nice experience for the dog, especially if they've got personality where they're a bit of a ham and they love getting attention from strangers. Um, so that can be a lot of fun. You can teach your dog to do tricks for treats. So, you know, a lot of dogs know basic tricks already, maybe like shake hands or something like that, but maybe a Halloween themed one could be teaching them to play dead. So by that I mean getting them to like lay down and then roll onto their side and then wait for a second and look, you know, as if they've been shot or something like that. But you know, that behavior can be also really handy. We use it for when we're training, seeing eye dogs. We use it for cooperative care, which makes our vet visits more happy and fun experience. So yeah, if you want to teach your dog to play dead, you can, if you get a treat and sort of get them to sit, put the treat on their nose and just take it straight down to the ground between their front paws. So that'll hopefully get them laying down. And then if you hold it in your fingers, imagine it's a magnet. Move their nose towards one of their back knees and you'll notice that'll make them flop like halfway over. And then if you take it to the ground in front of them, hopefully they'll sort of roll onto their side and you can kind of build up the time there for a second or two and give them a treat, and you can get them to do tricks for treats. And that can be so much fun for, for kids wanting to show off their cool dog for Halloween. And yeah, be a bit of fun for everyone.
00:18:38
S1: So I guess, I guess even though said puppies kind of can't do some of these tricks, you know, people often ask what tricks do they know? And well, well, kind of sits and downs and obedience stuff. It's a good point that some of that cooperative care stuff is kind of a bit of a trick in itself. There are a few more different things that you can teach. I'm thinking of my retired breeding dog. She's very good at that lying on her side. So now I just need to pair the cue and hey presto. Yeah. So great idea. So when we're thinking about kind of the spooky or the scary stuff that might come along and how to help our dogs through that, I feel like one of the questions that comes up, and I always kind of want to hear people's answers on this is about that reinforcing of fear. Can you reinforce fear by reacting to your dog or giving them treats when they're behaving in a way that's fearful?
00:19:30
S2: Yeah. So it's, I guess, a really common misconception. So we know that we can reinforce our dogs for doing behaviors. If they sit, we give them a treat. They're more likely to sit more often. But there's a difference between thinking something, doing something consciously, voluntary movements and feeling and experiencing emotions. And if you think about your own experience of the world, you'll realize how true that is. Say, you know, as a kid, I was terrified, legitimately, like terrified of the Easter Bunny. So if I saw someone dressed as the Easter Bunny, I would start screaming, freaking out. But it didn't take very long for me to realize that the Easter Bunny meant that I was going to get chocolate Easter eggs.
00:20:30
S1: It's scary until it gives you chocolate. Wait a minute, this isn't the consequence.
00:20:34
S2: So like so someone dressed in a terrifying costume handing me chocolate while I was a little bit scared did not make my experience of fear worse. It actually had the opposite effect. So we could make a dog's fear worse. If they're fearful and then something scary happens that's going to impact their level of fear where they go. I see an Easter bunny and then it violently attacks me with a machete. That would make their fear worse. And Innocence, I guess, reinforced the experience of being scared of whatever it was, which is, you know, very different than we see something spooky. We get food that's actually going to be a nice, happy, warm, fuzzy feeling. And that's going to actually reduce our experience of fear when we see that thing in future. So yeah, I hope that made sense.
00:21:30
S1: Yeah, that definitely makes sense because it's basically the food is more just creating a positive association rather than reinforcing some idea that you had you as a child with the Easter Bunny, which is fascinating. Um, but also kind of makes sense because those they're not like rabbits. They don't look like rabbits. They're.
00:21:47
S2: Oh, no, no.
00:21:49
S1: And if the rabbit was that big, it would be scary. It's like that whole thing of, would you rather fight one elephant sized rabbit or like a hundred rabbit sized elephants? You know, that thing? It's like that. Anyway.
00:22:03
S2: Yeah, I know that one.
00:22:04
S1: Yeah. So. So when we're looking, I guess at the kind of all all year round stuff or even prep for this, you know, what are the kind of, are there any things that you can do generally to improve that confidence and resilience in your dog?
00:22:19
S2: Absolutely. Yeah. So I think one of the biggest things is giving your dog a little bit of freedom to explore the world and maybe not like micromanaging everything for them. So it can actually be
really helpful if we think about resilience as being when we experience something that's potentially difficult or potentially scary or whatever, and we kind of learn through experience how our own actions can make that experience better, or that we can do stuff that we didn't think we could, or that stuff we thought was scary. Isn't that bad? Or maybe stuff is bad and we're scared. But there's people around us who are happy and loving. And even though we felt bad, we got through it and everything was okay in the end. So yeah, I think to sum that up, I guess it's not being a helicopter parent and maybe setting up little experiences for your dog. It can be as simple as like going for a walk on a longer leash than normal and letting them maybe if they want to go see if they could step up on a rock or balance along a log, or if they want to go and check out a little spooky bag that made them jump a little. Super amazing. Let them go for it. As long as it's, you know, not something that's going to hurt them. So, you know, if they got a spook from a cat that jumped out of a bush and the cat does not want the dog near them, that is not the time to go. It's fine dog. Go check it out because they will get biffed in the face.
00:24:06
S1: Yeah, that's not going to help if they get actually bashed by a cat. You know that feels yeah. Good. Good point. Yeah.
00:24:13
S2: It's like when it's safe to do so actually. Yeah. Encourage your dog to sort of work through those little things where maybe they're not sure. Um, and, you know, let them do a little bit of problem solving on their own, but definitely like, if they're a little bit hesitant, a lot of, yeah, I call it the jolly routine, but it's okay, you can do it. Yeah. Come on. Um, so yeah, setting up stuff where maybe. Yeah, they're just trying new stuff, going for walks in new places, letting them meet new people and having those new people give them treats and all that sort of stuff. It really builds a bit of a pattern for the dog of like, hey, everything works out in the end. All of that positive reinforcement training that we do with our puppies kind of builds a dog that's quite optimistic about the world, because they're expecting good stuff to happen all the time.
00:25:05
S1: And I guess then they kind of get that experience of like, oh, well, I've investigated 1 or 2 of these things and this looks more similar and I don't know, some sort of generalization and, and such.
00:25:16
S2: Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:19
S1: So just to finish off, is there anything else that you would like to share on the topic of, you know, Halloween or confidence or scary stuff?
00:25:28
S2: Yeah, absolutely. So a couple of things to be mindful of, I guess. So one is just, if you've got kids who are going to maybe bring home lollies and things like that, especially if you've got a dog that's really food motivated like a Labrador, just make sure your kids know to put all of the lollies well out of dog reach. And there may be dropped lollies and chocolates and stuff around the streets and things like that, and also little bits of plastic. So just in the couple of weeks leading up to and after Halloween, just being aware of those sorts of things can be, yeah, a good little preventative measure to make sure nothing goes wrong. No dogs digging through kids school bags and getting getting into the chocolates. And another one, not dog related, but just because I. As well as loving dogs. I love our wildlife and I think a lot of people don't know this, aren't aware of it. But you know, those fake spider webs that people put up that looks like kind of the stuffing that you'd get out of a toy. And it's that kind of like, yeah, tangly cottony stuff. Yeah.
00:26:39
S1: Cotton batting stuff.
00:26:41
S2: Yeah. Yep. So I see it around a lot, but that stuff, if we have it up, especially at night, birds and bats and, you know, those kind of animals can get really helplessly tangled in that stuff. So it's actually one of the decorations that's really good to just avoid and not use. Um, so yeah, but yeah, other than that, I think just a little bit of prep work and a bit of a mindset of having a really positive time and including our dogs and stuff can make Halloween or Howloween a really fun experience.
00:27:18
S1: Oh dear Steph, that was, it was good, but it was bad, you know? Yeah, it was fun. No, I liked it, I liked it overall, I liked it. Um, but you know, that is the type of thing that you have to groan about a bit. Oh, awesome. Thank you so much for the tips. And it's a good one as well. Thinking about environmental, the impact of, of these types of things, because especially, you know, our lovely native animals and stuff, they don't know, they don't understand to avoid these things. So that's a really good tip as well. You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Steph, talking spooky things and getting our dogs nice and resilient around strange and potentially novel objects. If you'd like to find out more about seeing eye dogs, the work we do, or how you can help, head to our website at australia.org. If you'd like to become a volunteer puppy carer and you live in parts of the East Coast, which are listed on our website, you get to work with an amazing trainer like Steph. Learn all the things that there are to know about dog socialization and looking after a puppy. And then you're doing it for an amazing cause whilst seeing eye dogs covers, vet bills, food costs, etc. etc. so if you're interested in this amazing volunteering opportunity, head to our website at australia.org. Thank you for listening to the Seeing Eye Dog Show. And don't forget to tune in same time next week for another episode.