Pełna transkrypcja odcinka Peer Experience in the treatment continuum

recovery has, you 73 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:59,240 know, to each one person, it's different. 74 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:04,200 So I wouldn't say that it's the same for everyone. 75 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,200 So everyone has their own way of recovering. 76 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,320 But that's where we come in and we encourage them. 77 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,800 We try and support them as much as we can. 78 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,640 We help them with social services. 79 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:26,400 We help them with the programs that they need in order to establish themselves in the community. 80 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:33,360 Again, so a SERPA is basically someone who understands and has gone through the same 81 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,800 thing that that person's gone through, but has come out on the other side of that. 82 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:38,800 Right. 83 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,160 And so it differs from a counselor in that you guys are encouraged to share your lived 84 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:43,680 experience with clients. 85 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:44,680 Absolutely. 86 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:55,880 Now, in obtaining your criteria, the actual certification, it takes some various classes 87 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:01,920 and groups that you have to attend, but it's not a very long process at all. 88 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,320 And it is so rewarding. 89 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,520 It is such a rewarding thing. 90 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,960 Could you tell us a little bit about, like, what kind of classes that you had to take 91 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:11,280 to become a SERPA? 92 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:12,280 Sure. 93 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:14,840 I had to do ethics. 94 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:20,560 I had to do trauma-informed care. 95 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:26,760 They asked you, how would you feel, and when you're actually doing the training, they ask 96 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:33,080 you how did you feel when you were recovering, or if you were in recovery, what would you 97 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,800 want people to do, or how you would want to be treated? 98 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,800 Oh, okay. 99 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:40,800 Yeah. 100 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:47,840 So this is something that we have to acknowledge because if you want to be treated a certain 101 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:52,720 way, you would treat others a certain way, correct? 102 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:53,720 Absolutely. 103 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:54,720 Yeah. 104 00:06:54,720 --> 00:07:00,480 So if I want someone to treat me a certain way, I'm going to first give off and treat 105 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,160 them that way so that way they can reciprocate them. 106 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:04,160 Right. 107 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,040 Let them know that they're not alone in what they're going to. 108 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:08,040 Exactly. 109 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,040 Gotcha. 110 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:10,040 Okay. 111 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:15,480 So, Destiny, you said you're a SERPA P. Can you explain what that P at the end stands 112 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:16,480 for? 113 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:17,480 Yeah, absolutely. 114 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,640 That's your provisional credential. 115 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:25,160 In order to get what we call that P dropped, there's a certain number of hours of coaching 116 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:31,600 that you have to do and have signed off on, and then an exam through New York State, I'm 117 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,800 pretty sure, that you have to take to get that full credential. 118 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,880 So right now, mine is a provisional, and it's a work in progress in getting the full credential 119 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:40,880 for the SERPA. 120 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:41,880 Gotcha. 121 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:42,880 Okay. 122 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:43,880 Awesome. 123 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,200 Well, thank you guys so much for explaining that for our listeners. 124 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,680 So I guess let's just jump right into it. 125 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:51,680 Why don't we? 126 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,440 What do you guys feel like the biggest issues are affecting peers in the workforce? 127 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:05,320 So I would say my biggest thing is kind of the, there's two, honestly, that I have. 128 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:11,200 The first one would be that mental health and substance abuse are treated as two separate 129 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,200 entities a lot of the time. 130 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:18,960 And there's like this fine line in the sand, and we're just treating one and not the other. 131 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:24,080 And as peers and going through this and having been through this in the past, you realize 132 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:30,600 that mental health has a lot to do with substance abuse and addiction, because ultimately, you're 133 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,600 self-medicating that undiagnosed problem you may have. 134 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:40,480 So I think addressing the mental health and knowing where your bounds are and not really 135 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:47,480 being trained on mental health and only specifically the substance abuse side is a real big hurdle, 136 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,400 and it should all be encompassed under one kind of treatment, if that makes sense. 137 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:52,440 Yeah, absolutely. 138 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:57,360 So, so when you guys do the SERPA classes, do they include any mental health classes at 139 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:58,360 all? 140 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:03,120 I don't think they're touched upon, but I don't think it goes as far in depth as it should. 141 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,280 Yeah, I definitely agree. 142 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:11,520 One thing that I have to clarify is that SERPA are not clinical. 143 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,880 Yeah, and there's a big line there too. 144 00:09:14,880 -->

00:09:20,640 Yeah, there's a difference between clinical and non-clinical, and clinical deals with 145 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:27,640 the mental health aspect of the substance use disorder, if you will. 146 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:28,640 Right. 147 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:33,000 Right, but then you also have it in the same token for the peer aspect of things. 148 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:39,960 You also have a mental health peer, which is a CPS designation, and that's the certification 149 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,760 you would get if you were to take that training course for the mental health aspect of things, 150 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:49,360 but to touch on what Destiny said, that ultimately brings us back to a piece of the first episode 151 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:55,120 in the conversation that we had where there's that lack of cross-training and mental health 152 00:09:55,120 --> 00:10:00,560 when you're taking a substance use curriculum course or certification, and vice versa, and 153 00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:06,400 how far apart these two worlds are when in reality, they shouldn't be. 154 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,280 Because of the high correlation between substance use disorder and mental health, there should 155 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,360 be more, you know, the left hand knows what the right hand's doing, and they both come 156 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,000 together to wash the face type of deal, you know? 157 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,000 Right. 158 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,000 But there's none of that. 159 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:24,040 And to kind of touch, based on what Miguel said with the clinical aspect as compared 160 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:29,840 to the, you know, non-clinical aspect, I did, I struggled very hard going from a SERPA 161 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,680 to a counselor, but even as a counselor on the clinical side, mental health is very 162 00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:40,160 kind of taboo to touch upon during counseling, and everything needs to be back to substance 163 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:44,960 abuse because we need to, you know, stay in our lane and stay in the clinical substance 164 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,160 abuse side or sub-side. 165 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,680 And if you touch on mental health, you're not trained. 166 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:51,600 That's not your area of expertise. 167 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,800 You're really not supposed to be doing that in a clinical setting. 168 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:55,800 Right. 169 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,040 But it's very hard not to. 170 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:58,360 Like it's very hard not to. 171 00:10:58,360 --> 00:10:59,360 Absolutely. 172 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:00,360 Yeah. 173 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:01,960 If you have a client who's going through a crisis, I mean, obviously you're going to 174 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,680 want to help them navigate that crisis, and that involves, you know, utilizing mental 175 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:08,800 health techniques and not necessarily substance use techniques. 176 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:09,800 Yeah. 177 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:10,800 Right. 178 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:11,800 So I'm informed care, right? 179 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,480 And we also, you know what? 180 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:24,960 I think that when we do this and we are touching clinically, I believe that we are borderline 181 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:32,000 clinical because the thing is, it's like we deal with those mental health aspects. 182 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:38,440 When they're going through the trauma at that moment, we're the ones that are there. 183 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:46,120 So we have to actually be the ones to try and talk to them and try and reason with them 184 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,080 so they can start feeling better. 185 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:49,080 Right. 186 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,880 And essentially that is mental health. 187 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:52,880 Absolutely. 188 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:57,800 So you actually started to touch on my next question, which was, do you consider peer 189 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,120 work to be clinical and why or why not? 190 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,600 And Destiny, I'll throw it to you because I feel like, Miguel, you kind of answered 191 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,960 that already. 192 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,400 So I was, like I said before, I've been both in the peer coach. 193 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,160 I've been in the peer coach position and now in the clinical counseling position. 194 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,880 And peer coaching is not clinical. 195 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:19,200 There are some aspects of it that may be clinical, but overall there is a stricter guideline. 196 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:24,040 You kind of have more structure. 197 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,640 You have less freeway. 198 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,400 I felt like as a peer coach, I was kind of a cross between a counselor and a sponsor. 199 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:32,400 Right. 200 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:33,400 I had those credentials. 201 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,080 I had that training, but I could also do some of that care management, help them out. 202 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:42,120 If they need help getting housing or things like that, I had more leeway and could actually 203 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:43,320 do it for them. 204 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,040 With the actual clinical case hack and the counseling, you are stuck. 205 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:51,440 Like I said, on that one train, you got to focus on their goals just specifically for 206 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:52,440 recovery. 207 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:53,440 Right. 208 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,600 You need branch out on other aspects or other life goals, but your main focus, your main 209 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:03,120 notes, your main clinical goal with them is solely substance abuse, where I felt peer 210 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:08,000 coaching was encompassing

the whole of a person more than a clinical side. 211 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,000 Right. 212 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,960 I think definitely, personally, I feel like peer work should be considered clinical. 213 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,800 I absolutely agree. 214 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,920 You guys do clinical work. 215 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,880 And the fact that you guys aren't compensated and you guys aren't considered qualified health 216 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:27,480 professionals personally, I feel like is a slight to you. 217 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,560 Because when you come down to it, you're obtaining of your credentials. 218 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:37,040 The only difference between the case hack and the SIRPA in terms of the work that you 219 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:42,880 guys do to get that SIRPA, I think is just the education part of it is you don't need 220 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,080 a formal program. 221 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,640 You actually do more work as a peer coach than a counselor because you have, like I 222 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,680 said before, that care management aspect. 223 00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:55,200 You're connecting them with resources. 224 00:13:55,200 --> 00:14:00,520 You're meeting them at maybe Tim Hortons because they don't have the transportation to get 225 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,880 to you where as a counselor, they're mandated to go to you. 226 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:08,400 So you're doing a lot more and you're out a lot more as a peer coach than in a clinical 227 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,120 counseling setting. 228 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:11,120 It's okay. 229 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,320 I wanted to pose a question and I want you to like really think about this, right? 230 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:16,320 Okay. 231 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,000 If someone is going through a mental health crisis, right? 232 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,200 And a peer is there, right? 233 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:23,200 Yeah. 234 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:28,680 And they suffer from substance use disorder and they feel like using and they talk to 235 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:38,320 the peer, the peer actually is doing a clinical job when you are talking this person down 236 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,240 from using a substance that they feel like using. 237 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,040 Right. 238 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:45,440 That is psychology. 239 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:46,440 Yeah. 240 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,640 That, that and essentially is clinical. 241 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:51,640 I agree. 242 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:52,640 Yeah. 243 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,800 I mean, honestly, I think the main difference would be as counselors were able to diagnose 244 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:03,720 a substance abuse disorder and give it, you know, like alcohol use disorder, mild, moderate 245 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:08,800 or severe, whereas peer coaches, we can't have that diagnosing factor. 246 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,080 But like I said, other than that, same as what Miguel said, you're getting that, you're 247 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:18,120 giving them that psychology that, you know, you're using a specific training, a specific 248 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:24,560 course, some type of, you know, tool that you learn to provide that service to the peer. 249 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,960 I was just going to say that I feel like, I feel like you guys should be able to diagnose 250 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:34,720 because a lot of the times you guys can see what the counselors don't because like the 251 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:40,800 yeah, well that and also I feel like the clients have a little bit more of like, because it's 252 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,760 not just a solely clinical relationship. 253 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:43,760 Right. 254 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:44,760 Yeah. 255 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,640 It's they have more trust with you guys because you don't have that like clinical aspect of 256 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:48,640 it. 257 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,640 So, yeah, that boundary they put up because they're in a clinical aspect gets taken down 258 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,120 and they see you more of as a confidant than they do as somebody they have to report to. 259 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,120 Right. 260 00:15:58,120 --> 00:15:59,120 Or even think about this, ready? 261 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:05,160 So, as for, this is what I've seen, you know, working as a clinician at these, at some of 262 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:11,280 these agencies where they are, some of the administrators are nervous with putting peers 263 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,280 in front of clients, right? 264 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,240 Because they're worried about boundaries, et cetera, scopes, practice, et cetera, right? 265 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:23,400 So what they, some of these administrators do is they'll train a peer in so many different 266 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:30,080 areas, mental health, first aid training, community health worker, criminal justice 267 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,240 involved peer, right? 268 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,920 So they'll keep on here. 269 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:34,920 Exactly. 270 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:39,640 So they're going to make a peer take more trainings and certification courses than they 271 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,760 would an actual clinical counselor. 272 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:48,080 And also just a touch base on what something you said Chris, self disclosure in a clinical 273 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,560 setting is so taboo. 274 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,800 They really kind of don't want you to self disclose to others. 275 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,800 Whereas a peer coach, like, it's not on that builds like we said before, they see you as 276 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,560 that confidant rather than someone they report to. 277 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:03,560 Right. 278 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:04,560 Right. 279

00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:11,600 And as a case act, okay, you have to build like 15 minute increments, okay? 280 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,800 And it's like, that's nonsense. 281 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:20,320 In 15 minutes, like, and you get a caseload as a counselor, you get a huge caseload and 282 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,880 you have to have a certain amount of clients. 283 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,600 You have to meet a quota. 284 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:30,360 You know, there's so many different variables about being a counselor that I was, I was 285 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:32,920 actually going for my case act. 286 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:37,960 And then when I became a peer, it just like opened my eyes to a whole new world. 287 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:45,520 The thing is, I see that I can make more, more of a conscious, a connection with the 288 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:52,520 individual as a peer than I would as a counselor because as a counselor, 15 minutes, yeah, 289 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,560 I'm not going to build the rapport that I need in order to help that person the way 290 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,080 that I need to. 291 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:03,240 Well also too, in a clinical setting, you're getting a lot of people who are court mandated. 292 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:04,800 They don't even want to be there. 293 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:05,800 Yes, exactly. 294 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:12,360 And as a peer, these are people who are making the conscious choice, seeking you out where 295 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:13,360 they want the help. 296 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:18,760 They have the willingness, they have the readiness to begin the recovery journey where a lot 297 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,240 of the people who are in clinical settings and court mandated, like Chris said, they 298 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,840 don't even want to be there. 299 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:28,360 Chances are they're, you know, just doing what they can to skirt by their toxic, fake 300 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:29,360 year end. 301 00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:31,760 They're doing whatever they can just to get through the program. 302 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,280 And once they're done and they don't have probation or parole or anything like that, 303 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:36,720 they go right back to using again. 304 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:37,720 Never see them again. 305 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:38,720 Yeah. 306 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:39,720 So let me ask you guys a question. 307 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,120 Let me ask this brings up a further issue. 308 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:50,320 So do you feel that the peer is more essential to the recovery movement, I guess you would 309 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,200 say, or the recovery type of space? 310 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,840 Or do you feel the clinician is more important? 311 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:57,680 Or do you feel like it's even? 312 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:05,240 So what I can say for my own personal opinion, for

my own personal past experiences, I personally 313 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,960 would benefit more from a peer counseling does have its benefits in a clinical setting. 314 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,440 I'm not knocking it. 315 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:16,600 But what I needed when I needed something was more of a peer, somebody to help me, like 316 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:21,960 I said, and the overall aspect of my life, just not this singular thing, because addiction 317 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,560 causes problems in every single aspect of your life. 318 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,720 And it's not just this singular like pigeonhole that you have to focus on. 319 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,480 So personally, I think a peer was more effective in some cases, absolutely. 320 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:36,480 My go. 321 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:37,640 What do you think? 322 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:45,920 I honestly, when I've talked to my clients in the past, they feel that they don't want 323 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:51,360 to talk to their counselor, and they want to talk to me and serve at the peer. 324 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:58,120 And they have so they have they open up so much more, because they you identify with them. 325 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:04,000 Now, as a case act, you're not allowed to say, well, I identify with you because I went 326 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,000 through the same thing. 327 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,920 You're also mandated to report a lot of this to right exactly. 328 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:15,240 And they tell and like, when when people divulge like their deepest feelings and secrets to 329 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,880 me, I'm taking that to the grave. 330 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,840 Because the thing is, they're trusting me with this. 331 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:29,160 And that's where the difference comes in, because we can we can talk to them freely 332 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,440 and openly and candidly. 333 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:36,480 And as a counselor, I mean, you can't divulge any information. 334 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:42,480 So it's like, they come in, I'm going OK, I'm going to classes by. 335 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,280 Yeah, basically. 336 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:49,360 And it's like, you know, if they're court mandated, we have to do court reports and some 337 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:53,920 of the stuff if it's red flags or, you know, if they're nervous about getting in trouble, 338 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,320 basically, and having to serve more time in the clinical setting. 339 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:03,120 And so like Miguel said, they're not going to open up until their deepest darkest secrets. 340 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:05,600 And they don't have that same trust for you. 341 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:06,800 No, they don't. 342 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:13,560 And honestly, with when it comes to this is just to reiterate Oasis rules on, you know, 343 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,480 self disclosure in the counseling position, like you have to make sure it's going to be 344 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,320 solely beneficial for the client. 345 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:24,960 So that way it doesn't take the focus of the treatment and the session off of the client. 346 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:32,240 So my thing is in whose eyes is this judgment being made as far as being beneficial? 347 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,280 Is it the counselor that's providing the service or is it the supervisor that's overlooking 348 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,120 the service you're providing? 349 00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:45,000 And if it's the supervisor that's overlooking that service, how do they know in that moment 350 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,040 what your judgment was and why you felt it was beneficial to the client? 351 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:55,080 So there's those little things that I agree with you guys wholeheartedly that kind of 352 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,440 handcuffs, so to speak. 353 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:58,440 Handcuff. 354 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:04,240 I'm glad you used it because you're handcuffing people and not allowing them to do what they 355 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,120 need to do in order to help those individuals. 356 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:08,120 Yeah. 357 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:11,280 So I have a question for you guys that I want to pose. 358 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:17,400 Do you guys feel like as peers that your roles are defined pretty well for you? 359 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:18,400 Defined people? 360 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,520 I feel like we are whatever role our peer needs us to be in that time. 361 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,520 So it's very fluent. 362 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:25,520 Gotcha. 363 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:26,520 Absolutely. 364 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,720 If they need me to just be an ear and not say anything, that's exactly what I'm going 365 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:36,680 to do because people sometimes they just want to, you know, unload and just, you know, get 366 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,600 things off their chest. 367 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:39,600 Right. 368 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,360 They just don't want to hear any feedback. 369 00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:43,840 They just want to be heard. 370 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,680 And then other times they need solutions to a problem and they're coming you and whether 371 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:55,000 that be referrals, resources, finding a home, getting benefits, things like that, you know, 372 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,640 they're coming to you to kind of get that assistance. 373 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:02,240 So you can be a care manager like Miguel said, you can be a confidant, you can be an ear 374 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,520 to listen to, you can give them that life advice. 375 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:11,680 Now, kind of piggybacking off of Aaron's question, you know, with the defined lanes or roles of 376 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:17,360 your position, do you feel that peers

within their scopes and within the, you know, the 377 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,320 agency they work for, do you feel that they're respected? 378 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,680 Do you feel that they are, yeah, respected for the work that they do, that they're, you 379 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,880 know, welcomed for the work that they do, or do you feel that they are not and this 380 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,720 could potentially be reading to, you know, a shortage of peers in the workforce. 381 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,960 What are your guys' opinions on the shortages? 382 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,200 There's quote unquote saying that we're having in the peer workforce. 383 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,200 May I go first? 384 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,280 Yeah, absolutely. 385 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:51,720 I feel that we are not acknowledged for the work that we do. 386 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:59,240 I feel we're not acknowledged and I feel that the people that are at the helm since 387 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:06,000 they hold positions and sort of, and, you know, titles and, you know, these college 388 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:12,480 degrees, right, they look down upon us because we have less education. 389 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:13,480 Gotcha. 390 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,160 However, this is not about education. 391 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,160 Right. 392 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,160 It is, but it isn't. 393 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,240 Yeah, I mean, the whole point of your guys' position is for you guys to be able to share 394 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,240 that lived experience. 395 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,960 So that should be what is valued over education. 396 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,600 Destiny, what about you? 397 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,360 Do you feel like you're respected in your role? 398 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:39,240 I feel no, and I feel like there's a big push for anybody who is a peer to get that case 399 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,720 act, to go into that clinical role, which like you said, is causing those shortages 400 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,200 because it's this big push and everybody needs that degree or that credential and everything 401 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:54,400 needs to be a more clinical setting and follow, you know, these New York State Oasis regulations 402 00:24:54,400 --> 00:25:00,240 more to a T and things like that. And like Miguel said, if we don't have that bachelor's 403 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:05,160 or that piece of paper to say that we went to school for so and so long, then yeah, we're 404 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,440 automatically undermined. 405 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,200 We're automatically less than those who may have that. 406 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,200 Yeah, I agree. 407 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,000 You know, I can, I can see how that, that is, that comes into play. 408 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,600 Like I kind of took the opposite course of some individuals. 409 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:24,520 Like I got my case act team, my degree first, and then I got the peer certification. 410 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:30,280 So like I saw how things were from the clinical side of things, right from the get go, how 411 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,280 things operated. 412 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:37,440 And then I was so handcuffed in that role that I felt it was best to transition to the 413 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:43,840 peer role because we're better able to provide those true person centered levels of care 414 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:49,680 that they talk about and aspire to get to with the individuals, with the peer certification. 415 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,280 You guys want to know something crazy though. 416 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:58,440 So in the leap meeting earlier in October, the whole point of, or the whole topic of 417 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,640 the meeting was about peers. 418 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:07,080 They gave us some like very interesting information where the SERPA right now, like through Oasis' 419 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,360 data, the SERPA is being obtained by more individuals than the case act is. 420 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:13,560 It's actually becoming a requirement, I think. 421 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:14,560 Really? 422 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:21,840 Yes, because where I work at, I know a lot of the higher ups are having to go back and 423 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:28,760 get the SERPA because now to have their certain criteria for whatever their credentials are, 424 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,640 the SERPA is now actually becoming required. 425 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:37,320 But like Chris said, you're so handcuffed into this role, it's hard to switch bases 426 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,080 to the peer coaching and see it from that aspect, especially people who have been in 427 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:47,360 this field for years and this is the role that they've known for 10, 20, 30 plus years. 428 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:48,360 Yeah. 429 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:50,040 Well, also that's interesting too. 430 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,840 So wait, okay. 431 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,000 How are they able to differentiate between who has lived experience and who doesn't? 432 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,360 Because a lot of people that are higher ups in these agencies do not have lived experience. 433 00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:02,760 Yeah, I was just going to ask that too. 434 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:08,720 I thought that the peer, if they're doing that and making the peer role certification 435 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:14,080 mandatory, if that's really what's happening, then that totally takes away from the whole 436 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,360 purpose of the peer. 437 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:19,960 The peer is based off of lived experience, whether it be in your own personal addiction 438 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,440 and recovery or your family member or friend. 439 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:24,440 Right. 440 00:27:24,440 -->

00:27:27,640 Stopper from that and you have that family perspective and that allows you to get that 441 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:28,640 family. 442 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:29,960 And you are the other side of receiving. 443 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:30,960 Right. 444 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,920 So like if they're just saying, no, you got to take this just because we need peers on 445 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,440 staff, then dude, you're not really a flippant peer, man. 446 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:39,440 You're just a fraud. 447 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:40,440 You're just a number. 448 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:41,440 Yeah. 449 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,440 You are basically. 450 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:51,040 I feel that you're going to take the peer, I'm telling you, this should be for lived 451 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,080 experience only. 452 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,640 And that goes back to the lack of respect that we get or the lack of recognition. 453 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:57,640 Absolutely. 454 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:58,640 Absolutely. 455 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,440 Because just like if you want a case that you have to have an associates, right? 456 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:04,440 There's a requirement. 457 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:05,440 Right. 458 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:14,040 I mean, as far as like to become a case that you need a college degree. 459 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,040 You know what I'm saying? 460 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,040 Yeah. 461 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,000 And like it's like that's the we went to school of hard knocks. 462 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:26,400 So let me ask you guys this, like, why do you think personally, why do you guys think 463 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,520 it is that these agencies are pushing for the higher ups to get that surprecredential 464 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,320 even if they don't have lived experience? 465 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,760 Because it's all just a credential, it's that name or that, you know, those letters after 466 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,400 name that piece of paper, you know, why they wouldn't just make them get it if they really 467 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,920 needed that lived experience. 468 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:49,480 The more like Miguel said earlier, the more, you know, schooling or whatever title or degree 469 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:54,200 you have is more important than anything else in the big scheme of things. 470 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,200 Right. 471 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,200 No, that's not that. 472 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,400 No, it shouldn't be. 473 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:58,400 There should be. 474 00:28:58,400 --> 00:28:59,400 I'm going to be perfectly frank with you. 475 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:04,760 I know certain certifications give you like if you're going to like renew or like acquire 476 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,760 a certification, some of them give you that lived experience. 477 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,240 Some of them take that into consideration. 478 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:15,520 But I honestly feel like, and this is my opinion, that lived experience with a little bit of 479 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,280 training, with a little bit of guidance, with a little bit of room to grow should supersede 480 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,880 that of a person that has none. 481 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,960 I'm not taking anything away from their hard work to get that degree and to get all that. 482 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,160 I think you need to be in the trenches a little bit longer. 483 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,160 Right. 484 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,160 You know what I'm saying? 485 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,160 Yeah. 486 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,160 Yeah. 487 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,560 To make it fully broad. 488 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:36,560 Yes. 489 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,440 What these people are really going through. 490 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:39,440 Right. 491 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,080 Well guys, I think we're going to take a little break here to do a little ad break. 492 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,440 So we will be back after this ad read and enjoy. 493 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,880 Hello, everyone. 494 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,720 So I'd just like to give a few shout outs to some of our community supporters. 495 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:02,480 We have a lot of community businesses that show support to some of our initiatives. 496 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,880 And one of the big shout outs I'd like to give is to Franco's Pizza. 497 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,800 They're donating all of the pizza that we have to serve our guests for our holiday basket 498 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:18,720 raffle on Saturday, December 7th from 11 a.m. right here at Trinity Church here in Buffalo, 499 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,220 New York. 500 00:30:20,220 --> 00:30:24,800 Inside this raffle, you'll have multiple different baskets that were also donated by 501 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,680 Coleman's Cleaners. 502 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:31,640 Anderson's Custards, Sign Memorabilia from the Buffalo Bills, Buffalo Savers and the 503 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,280 Buffalo Bandits. 504 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,720 So we're hoping to see as many people as we can here and a big shout out and big thank 505 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:43,360 you to those businesses for donating another big shout out to Wegmans. 506 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:50,480 They donated some 200 hour gift cards to our Thanksgiving turkey dinner drive last year. 507 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,600 We were able to feed 60 families this year. 508 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,120 We were able, we're trying to serve double that number and thanks to Wegmans, we're 509 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,920 on a good path to make that number. 510 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:03,360 And then last but not least, Public Auto Connect. 511 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:04,360 You've seen the rest now. 512 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:05,360 Deal with the best. 513

00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:10,120 If you're looking for a new or used car, please don't hesitate to reach out to Public Auto 514 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:11,120 Connect. 515 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:16,840 They're located at 1754 Abbott Road right here in the city of Buffalo. 516 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,120 Also thank you again, last, last, lastly. 517 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:26,880 Thank you again, big shout out to Eric White at Big Indian Drip Fit for their donations 518 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,720 and time spent helping hurricane, plowing, cleanup efforts. 519 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,880 They're wonderful people. 520 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,960 Eric is always about community. 521 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,200 I just want to give him a shout out and let him know that we here at Creative Restorations 522 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,280 I&C, we see you Eric. 523 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,800 We appreciate all that you do for the community and we'd love to be a part of anything else 524 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:48,800 you have going on. 525 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,680 So everyone, I just gave a shout out to thank you so much. 526 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,120 All right. 527 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:01,280 So now we want to get into what solutions do you guys feel like can be implemented to 528 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,440 try and make things a little bit easier for people that want to become peers or that are 529 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:06,440 currently peers. 530 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,880 So yeah, before we start too, let's just do a quick recap, right? 531 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,120 So we discussed in a synopsis type of format, right? 532 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,680 So we recap, we're going to recap what we talked about. 533 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,960 So what we talked about first was the lack of respect, right? 534 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,360 The peer position, not being offered a seat at the table potentially when it comes to 535 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:31,120 the clinical aspect of things being viewed as non-clinical when potentially we are providing 536 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,960 certain services that are clinical. 537 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:33,960 Yeah. 538 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:39,400 And the last one was the some certain mandates that we're hearing about potentially, again, 539 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,360 this is all allegedly until we have the facts, right? 540 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:47,600 That certain administrators at certain agencies are being mandated to take the peer course 541 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,240 and have that added to their, quote unquote, repertoire of credentials. 542 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,480 Why? 543 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,160 We don't know. 544 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,520 But that's the last one I think we'll discuss. 545 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,520 Right. 546 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,280 And specifically why if they don't have lived experience, why are they taking these courses? 547 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,760 Like it's one thing if they have the lived experience, but why are people who don't have 548 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,320 lived experience in a higher up position taking these courses? 549 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,320 Absolutely. 550 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:11,320 So let's start. 551 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,960 And whoever wants to, let's start with a solution to any one of these problems or a solution 552 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,600 to a problem that we potentially didn't list. 553 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,800 Maybe you have something that you thought of while we took our advertising break that 554 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,040 you might want to talk about as well. 555 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,800 So whoever like to take the floor, it's all yours. 556 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:34,400 So I'll start and I will say first and foremost, you know, the big thing, like I said before, 557 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:39,440 is encompassing that mental health aspect and training peers and an overall aspect with 558 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,880 it, but also to touch on the credentials. 559 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:48,840 I think that surplus should be people with that lived experience, not mandated for a higher 560 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:54,120 ups, not just another credential or a diploma, because you're not going to go see an orthopedic 561 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,920 surgeon if you have cardiovascular issues, right? 562 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,600 We are a specific, you know, service. 563 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:02,600 We're a specific. 564 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,360 We specialize in a certain area, specific area. 565 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:06,360 Yes. 566 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,360 Absolutely. 567 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,520 Honestly, I think what we need is more people, like I said, how we have the mandates through 568 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,280 court and things like that. 569 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,520 Not many of those people have their own personal experience with addiction or have gone through 570 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:20,520 addiction. 571 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,640 So I really do believe that we need more people who have that experience or peer coaches to 572 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:30,000 be at the table like we've discussed in decision making overall with Oasis regulations or court 573 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,760 mandates or what have you. 574 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:37,440 We need more of a say, more of a input and a view and a perspective that's being taken 575 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,440 seriously. 576 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,440 More of a voice. 577 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:40,440 Exactly. 578 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:41,440 Yes. 579 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:42,440 Yeah. 580 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,120 And to piggyback off of that, I mean, there is the LEAP panel, but as a member of the LEAP 581 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:52,360 panel, and I'm going to talk about this because it is directly from

Oasis, the LEAP panel has 582 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:58,600 not been what it has been advertised to be in terms of like having that voice at the table. 583 00:34:58,600 --> 00:34:59,600 Yeah. 584 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:00,600 Right. 585 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,400 And even though it seems like Oasis is having these initiatives to have people at the table, 586 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:10,120 I can tell you as somebody who's on one of those panels, it's not what it's all cracked 587 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,600 up to be, unfortunately. 588 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:12,600 So unfortunately. 589 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:13,600 Yeah. 590 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:14,600 Yeah. 591 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:15,600 It's really sad. 592 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,520 I mean, there are so many people on the panel that are peers and also clinical staff that 593 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,960 have like that perspective that's needed. 594 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:28,200 And Oasis is almost like dangling this forum in front of us. 595 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,360 We selected you for this panel, but we're not actually really listening to what you're 596 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,360 saying. 597 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:33,360 Yeah. 598 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,360 They hit you with that dirty dance. 599 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,720 It's more for a show and pony dance than an ad. 600 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:39,480 They hit you with that dirty dancing. 601 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:40,960 No one puts my baby in the corner. 602 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,680 They basically put you in the corner and telling you to sit down. 603 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,400 And that doesn't make sense, especially when we've touched on that. 604 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:50,400 It's like, come on. 605 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:51,400 You know what? 606 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,920 We're your first line of defense. 607 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,840 First time, some of the reasons why some of those court mandated clients stay in treatment. 608 00:35:58,840 --> 00:35:59,840 Yeah. 609 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:00,840 Right? 610 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:01,840 We're the reason behind that. 611 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:02,840 Yeah. 612 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:03,840 Yeah. 613 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:04,840 We're that boots on the ground. 614 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:05,840 We're that first line of defense. 615 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:11,280 So to not be able to respect that position or have clear defined roles with that position 616 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,800 or to offer that position, to seat at the table when it comes to operations or planning 617 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,680 or policy changes, it makes no sense. 618 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:20,680 I have a question. 619 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:21,680 I have a question. 620 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:22,680 Sure. 621 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:23,680 Okay. 622 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,040 Now, as peers, right? 623 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:36,120 When a client comes in and expresses their needs, we are there to help them reach those 624 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,600 goals and obtain those needs, correct? 625 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:39,600 Yes. 626 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,840 Now, what is the purpose for a counselor? 627 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:51,800 The counselor is supposed to allow them to connect resources to help them to get through 628 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,160 some difficult moments, right? 629 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,160 Yeah. 630 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,160 Okay. 631 00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:02,880 And this is exactly what the peer is doing also when the person is going through a moment 632 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,360 of anxiety, an emergency. 633 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,680 They feel like they're going to use. 634 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,240 Do you think they're calling their counselor or their peer? 635 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:13,440 Most likely their peer. 636 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,160 I think the difference is like, okay. 637 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,800 So as somebody who's right now, I'm a clinician. 638 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,800 So one of the things that we have to put in all of our notes is what therapeutic technique 639 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,960 we utilized during the session. 640 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,880 And that I think is where the difference is where like, you know, let me put it this way. 641 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,400 So like, personally. 642 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,800 So that's exactly what we get trained for. 643 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:35,800 Trauma-informed care. 644 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:36,800 Well, you know. 645 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:37,800 Well, to expand on that. 646 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:43,800 It's the justification for billing for the insurance company. 647 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,320 That's why you have to put that in your note because if you don't put that in your note, 648 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,200 then they can't bill for that billable service. 649 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:57,240 Well, it's that, it's that, but it's also like certain agencies have certain policies 650 00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:01,400 when it comes to like what specific counseling styles that you can use. 651 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,400 So like, for example, I'll give you an example. 652 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:09,600 So like an agency that I worked for in the past was abstinence based where like my general 653 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:15,320 like wheelhouse is harm reduction, but I couldn't tell somebody that was using, oh, you know, 654 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,080 go to a needle exchange, for example. 655 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,920 Whereas a peer could appear can say that because they have that lived experience as an account 656 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:22,920 sir. 657 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,920 I can't say that because it's not what advice we can get. 658 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:26,920 Right. 659 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:27,920 Exactly. 660 00:38:27,920 -->

00:38:29,520 That's where the difference, the difference lies in my opinion. 661 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:30,520 Right. 662 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,800 Because it goes from whatever advice you do give it, it then differentiates between the 663 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,520 clinical lane and our clinical lane. 664 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:37,520 Right. 665 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:38,520 Yeah. 666 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,000 I have clinical value, but now you have to acknowledge what happens when that, when 667 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,160 that happens, right? 668 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:46,160 We're saving lives. 669 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:53,680 We're saving lives and people, people like they really discount the peer because when 670 00:38:53,680 --> 00:39:00,360 a person is going through an event or a difficult moment at that, you know, an emergency or 671 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,360 whatever have you a mental breakdown. 672 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:03,360 Okay. 673 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,800 They feel like using and they want to escape because I knew I wanted to. 674 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:08,800 That's how I felt. 675 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:09,800 I wanted to escape. 676 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,360 I didn't want to feel what I was feeling. 677 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:18,640 Now, if I had someone that I can talk to when I was going through those stands, I probably 678 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,040 wouldn't have got high and I did. 679 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:29,640 And that's where the difference, the difference maker is you want to have those people calling, 680 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:30,640 reaching out. 681 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:37,600 You want to have them make them feel as comfortable and as loved and as accepted as possible. 682 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,600 And I feel like to appear, you have more like the way of time. 683 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,760 With counselors, you are a time slot in the schedule. 684 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,160 It is very addictive. 685 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,440 You have a certain set of sessions. 686 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,800 You are mandated to go to a week, a certain time schedule where I feel like there's more 687 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:59,160 fluent, you know, less restraints with being a peer. 688 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,920 And also an interesting fact that I just want to like touch on too is me having that lived 689 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,480 experience, me being a peer before a counselor and absolutely no knock to my fellow counselors 690 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,440 and my colleagues, but I have seen I have better success rate with the patients that 691 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:19,560 I see, whether it be retention, attendance, you know, less inpatient or more willing to 692 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:25,400 go to inpatient, more people willing to, you know, look at math services and just all around 693 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,560 like higher success in that patient care. 694 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,240 So my thing is for a possible solution to this, right? 695 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:35,520 And I think we touched on it a little bit in the first episode. 696 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:43,280 I think the first thing that we should do, right, is make cross training, cross certification 697 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,920 in the mental health and substance use sphere, right? 698 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:52,120 If you have a counseling certification, you should also be trained as in depth as you 699 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,920 were for substance use for mental health. 700 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,840 And you should gain both license-sures or certification upon your graduation because 701 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:04,160 then you can provide both services because of their high degree of correlation. 702 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,160 Peers? 703 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,160 Yeah. 704 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,080 Peers should be cross-trained in CPS. 705 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:13,080 If you're a CPS, which is the designation for the mental health peer, then you should 706 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,600 be cross-trained as a surpa or a car depending on where you plan to work and utilize that 707 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:18,600 certification. 708 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:19,920 So that's the first thing, right? 709 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,520 I think that cross training should be there. 710 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:27,240 Second thing, and tell me if this could be a good idea, guys, there should be a hybrid 711 00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:34,440 position between the peer and counselor, a combined position where you have the clinical 712 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:40,280 ability to diagnose a potential mental health disorder and provide clinical services, but 713 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:47,440 you can also fall back into your lived experience and work as a peer for those cases that we 714 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,800 feel that's needed or where you're able to utilize that skill to break them, walls of 715 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,840 ambivalence, and form that therapeutic alliance a little bit better. 716 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:04,400 I think maybe if we have a hybrid position, maybe that then kind of solves multiple problems 717 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,320 in one solution potentially. 718 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,120 I agree with that, yeah. 719 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:10,120 Yeah. 720 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,720 And then the last one, and I'll get off my high horse because I can do this for fucking 721 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:18,240 days, man. 722 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:26,920 The time for, well, hey, you don't have a degree, you don't have XY and V clinical, right? 723 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,600 I think the days for that are over. 724 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:37,200 I think the days for offering peers $15, $16 an hour when people at McDonald's are making 725 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,080 $19.20, I think that those days are over. 726

00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:41,080 That's an insult. 727 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,280 Yeah, it's an insult for an individual that's made it through the trenches, the mud, the 728 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,280 muck, the mire in their life to make it to the point they've been able to turn around 729 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,800 and make it, to be able to offer those services to individual struggling like them. 730 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:55,800 The miracle. 731 00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:01,280 That's worth, right, that's worth more to me than any fucking degree I will ever earn. 732 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:02,280 Hell yeah. 733 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:03,280 Right? 734 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:04,280 Hell yeah. 735 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,480 Let's get that seat at the table. 736 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:08,960 Can I propose something? 737 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:09,960 Yes. 738 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:15,280 Okay, so do you guys feel like it would be beneficial to have a lived experience panel 739 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,680 at the local level, like at local health departments? 740 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:19,680 Absolutely. 741 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,840 Oh yeah, without a doubt. 742 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:22,840 Absolutely. 743 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,960 I would say yes as long as they're not in charge of running it. 744 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:26,960 No, that's fair. 745 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:27,960 No, no, no, no. 746 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:28,960 I agree, I agree. 747 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:34,280 I think the people with the lived experience should be running the panel and they should 748 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:40,520 have someone there from the local county to provide guidance, right, assistance, support, 749 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,360 but they shouldn't be running it unless they themselves have lived experience. 750 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:45,360 Right. 751 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,680 Right, like if we're trying to make it to where like we want that seat at the table, 752 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,880 we want her to be able to have our own panel. 753 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,200 We don't want to have it the same thing happening again at a local and smaller level. 754 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:56,200 You know what I mean? 755 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:57,200 Yeah. 756 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,000 Like if we want to make, yeah, like so if I just, nothing bad against the county, like 757 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,000 I love that. 758 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,000 I work with them directly. 759 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,040 I love, you know, everything about what they're doing, but I just feel to stay consistent. 760 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:08,680 You gotta have lived experience. 761 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:13,600 It has to be some of your peers that are working with the county that are a part of it, right? 762 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:14,600 Yeah. 763 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:15,600 Absolutely. 764 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:22,600 So, I guess like what steps

do we feel like we can take or even other agencies or maybe 765 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,600 government officials can take? 766 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,600 And Miguel, I'm going to throw it to you for that. 767 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:27,600 Okay. 768 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,600 Hey, Miguel, to add on to that buddy. 769 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:35,680 What do you think the community as well can do to assist us in getting these things addressed 770 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:36,680 and brought to life? 771 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,680 Do you think we can collaboratively do some things with the community? 772 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,680 What are your thoughts on that? 773 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:42,680 Absolutely. 774 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:48,040 I think we can do a lot of things with the community, but first, right, we need to stop 775 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:49,040 competing. 776 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,800 We need to stop treating this field like it's a competition. 777 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:52,800 Yeah. 778 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,400 And like, you know, I want to get to this client. 779 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:57,400 Money grab. 780 00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,040 There's plenty of clients to go around. 781 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,480 Believe me, there's plenty of clients to go around. 782 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,200 Now the thing is, if you wouldn't treat each other like it's a competition, we'd be helping 783 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:07,200 each other. 784 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:08,200 Yep. 785 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:09,880 Which is what we're supposed to be doing. 786 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:10,880 Yeah. 787 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,240 We're the first solutions that we need to get. 788 00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:14,240 Absolutely. 789 00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:19,440 Because as long as we have this competitive attitude, we're not going to touch as many 790 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,880 lives as we can if we didn't. 791 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:26,600 And I think we really miss in the mark when we think about it, because the thing is, why 792 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,240 are we here to help people, to help them? 793 00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:31,240 Yeah. 794 00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:36,600 And we start making it about us and our company and how, you know, we need to compete with 795 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,520 this person and that person for a grant. 796 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,080 There's enough money to go around. 797 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:46,040 The thing is, it's like certain grants go to certain people, certain grants go to some 798 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:51,200 other people, but everybody gets a fair share. 799 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,200 You know what I'm saying? 800 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:58,640 If that was fair across the board, then we would touch so many more lives. 801 00:45:58,640 --> 00:45:59,640 I agree. 802 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:00,640 And I see it every day. 803 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:01,640 Yeah. 804 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:07,440 Getting back on track with as far as like solutions, the solutions for the community is getting 805 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:08,440 involved. 806 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,120 Community needs to get involved. 807 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,360 They need to understand and go and learn something. 808 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:22,400 If you don't know about substance use disorder and mental health, go attend an Alenon class 809 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,360 or group and learn about it so that that way you can educate yourself. 810 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,520 It can happen to anyone at any given moment. 811 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,680 So people need to understand how serious this disease is. 812 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,080 How do you guys feel like the respect issue can be solved? 813 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,320 Make it that we are an actual professional. 814 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,040 I don't think we're viewed as professionals. 815 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:47,840 Don't allow these people who don't have the experience or the lived stuff that we've gone 816 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:53,720 through to attain these credentials just because they need it for some type of certification 817 00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:54,720 or mandation. 818 00:46:54,720 --> 00:47:00,800 Like I said before, I can't just go and get my doctorates just because I need it, right? 819 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,560 I need to have that certain specialty about me. 820 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:05,560 Right. 821 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:06,560 Yeah. 822 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:13,240 So I think to piggyback off of that, a solution is that serpas need to be QHPs. 823 00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:14,240 Yeah. 824 00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:16,520 They just do. 825 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,720 And wages, like I said before, need to match. 826 00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:19,720 Yes. 827 00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:20,720 Right? 828 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:26,320 We are kind of like, serpas don't get paid the same as counselors or what they say, mental 829 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,600 health professionals or things like that. 830 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:29,760 And we're doing the exact same thing. 831 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,360 Or like I said, sometimes even more of the work. 832 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,640 And are wages really reflect that? 833 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:35,640 Yeah. 834 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:41,360 And now this is also guys that if you use substances in the past and you have that lived 835 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:46,240 experience, someone that hasn't had that lived experience, right? 836 00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,760 And hasn't used drugs, looks down on you sometimes. 837 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,080 And sometimes they're only even on Kylie. 838 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,080 Stake-wise huge. 839 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,080 Absolutely. 840 00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:00,400 It even comes from our own colleagues at times that haven't even gone through their experience 841 00:48:00,400

--> 00:48:01,400 themselves. 842 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:02,400 It happens sometimes. 843 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:03,400 And you know what? 844 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:04,400 It's unfortunate. 845 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,320 Yeah, honestly, we touched on this on the first episode too, where there's things that 846 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,200 happen in the overall picture, right? 847 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:19,480 At different agencies that if systemically it wasn't happening, our bad policy wasn't 848 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,320 in place for these things to happen. 849 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:22,880 These things never would have happened. 850 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,760 So a lot of the culpability, right? 851 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,120 It goes back to that bad policy. 852 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,240 And that bad policy breeds bad work environments. 853 00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:36,800 Three bad supervision, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? 854 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,600 So with that being said, it's just, you know what? 855 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:44,280 There's going to come a time where I think, and it's going to be really close in the future 856 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:49,440 where there's going to be so much pushback the way money is being spent with the opioid 857 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:55,200 settlement, the way everything that we discussed in this podcast episode, we're going to have 858 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,840 so many individuals that are coming to Oasis that are going to go to the governor and say, 859 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,640 well, some things need to change, right? 860 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:03,640 Things need to change. 861 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:08,360 If things don't change, who's going to provide these services to these individuals that are 862 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,600 struggling because as you can see, everybody's leaving the field. 863 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,320 And we're in an epidemic. 864 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:18,600 So to be in an epidemic and to have that need and to have the lack of resources and people 865 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,720 to fill those positions is horrible. 866 00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:25,560 It shouldn't be even be a thing right now. 867 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:31,080 So this is one of the crucial initiatives that we do at Creative Restorations is we 868 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,120 help individuals that are going through what we've went through, right? 869 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:39,120 We've talked about this, that journey that they're on, whether it's in current addiction 870 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:44,440 or whether they're working their version of recovery and they're just seeking out our 871 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,480 services, you know, whether it be peers or care management. 872 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,680 So we get those individuals, if they express a desire, you know, I love seeing you guys 873 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:52,880 do what you do. 874 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:53,880 I have an interest. 875 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:54,960 How do I do that? 876 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,080 We give them that information and we're going to link them to an agency that's going to 877 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:06,360 get them trained as a peer so we can get that person back out here with us if they so choose 878 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,200 to do what we're doing. 879 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:14,040 So what I think the purpose of me saying this is what I think is happening is an oasis probably 880 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:15,040 doesn't realize this. 881 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,600 Things, the things are not right. 882 00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:23,680 You're taking away that one avenue of marketing, that one avenue of workforce retention that 883 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,840 you would have there if you would just do some things different because if people are 884 00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:32,160 so stressed out, they're so overworked and underpaid, they're not going to go out there 885 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,760 and hit the ground for you and market for you and say, Hey, let's, hey, why don't you 886 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:36,760 come in this field? 887 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,760 They're going to tell people to stay the fuck away from you. 888 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:39,760 They're exhausted. 889 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:40,760 Absolutely. 890 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:41,760 Don't do, don't get this job. 891 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:42,760 Go be a welder. 892 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:43,760 Go be an electrician. 893 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:44,760 People are exhausted. 894 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:45,760 Yeah. 895 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:46,760 Right. 896 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:52,440 And listen guys, we mentally, we're mentally exhausted sometimes and we're under overworked 897 00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,760 and underpaid. 898 00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:54,760 Okay. 899 00:50:54,760 --> 00:51:00,240 Because the thing is, surplus are taking the client's problem and making it their own. 900 00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:01,240 Yeah. 901 00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:02,240 It's so hard to catch. 902 00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:08,520 And helping the right and it's science helping the client, the client solve it. 903 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:14,440 It's finding a solution for, for your client, you know, and, and while dealing with our 904 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,720 own personal problems at the time. 905 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:18,880 So you can take multiple approaches, right? 906 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,920 Guys, we can take multiple approaches. 907 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,160 We can take multiple ways to solve the problem. 908 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,200 So let's just say in the nutshell, tie this thing on up. 909 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:27,200 Right. 910 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,280 Let's just, let's just listen a little bit more. 911 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,120 Let's just be a little bit more empathetic. 912 00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:32,120 Right. 913 00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:37,600 Let's just be a little bit more cognizant of the environments in which we place our employees 914 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:38,600 in. 915 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:39,600 Right. 916 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,880 Let's be more cognizant of the policy that we put in place for the individuals that are 917 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:44,640 seeking out these services. 918 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:48,480 So at the end of the day, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to keep our colleagues. 919 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:49,480 Yeah. 920 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:50,480 And how we treat our colleagues. 921 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:52,080 We're going to keep grinding for this change. 922 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:53,680 We're going to keep striving for this change. 923 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,920 We're going to keep having these tough conversations, right? 924 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:56,920 Miguel, right? 925 00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:57,920 Absolutely. 926 00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:58,920 Absolutely. 927 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,560 We're going to have these tough conversations. 928 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:01,560 Right. 929 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:07,240 So I think leading into our next episode, Aaron, do we have some esteemed guests from 930 00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:08,240 Nami coming in? 931 00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:09,240 Are we working on that? 932 00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:11,640 We sure do have some esteemed guests. 933 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,640 We have Sherry and we have, I believe, Carla. 934 00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:15,640 Yes. 935 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:16,640 Carla from Nami. 936 00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,000 Are you going to be on our next episode where we're going to be talking about the link 937 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:21,960 between mental health and addiction. 938 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,560 I want to thank you guys so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your thoughts with 939 00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:26,560 us. 940 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:27,560 We really appreciate it. 941 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:28,560 Thank you. 942 00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:29,560 Thank you for having us. 943 00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:30,560 Yeah. 944 00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,360 And to all of our listeners, thank you for listening. 945 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:38,640 You can find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash creativerestaurationsinc716. 946 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:44,000 You can visit our website at www.creativrestaurationsinc.org. 947 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:49,800 And obviously you can find us on YouTube as well, creativerestaurationsinc for subtitled 948 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,080 versions of this podcast episode. 949 00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:56,800 Thank you guys again and we'll see you on the next one. 950 00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:23,560 Bye.