Pełna transkrypcja odcinka Warning! Poly Memes and Media Might be Hurting You and Yours

me to thinking about how poly memes and poly tropes and poly things that are out there in social media can help and hurt us just as Kat talked about in the intro, right? They do provide a sense of access, but they also can hurt us because- They are coming from sometimes a place of bravado and noise, though maybe well-intentioned. The article, which again, we'll link, we'll go through a lot of things, but I wanted to kind of talk about a couple of different ideas. This whole idea of kind of rising, rising therapy talk and self-talk because we're all on TikTok and YouTube shorts and Instagram reels and we're just flipping through and we're getting... Really concise, quippy types of advice. The five warning signs that your relationship is dead. I'm old enough to know that when you would go to the grocery aisle, you would see all the Crappy magazines are like, you know, the three ways to reinvigorate your love life, the fourteen ways to make chicken better and the six ways your husband is not helping you. And so this is not a new concept, but it does give us a lot more access through. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Lax scientific basis and that that's leading people astray. That's quite a quote. And we get into, and I think that that's important because. Well, I don't think that people, I think that content creators have a 100% responsibility to be accurate. I think you and I both know that. We work really hard to make sure that we're researching our thoughts and things for. We don't represent ourselves as experts. We are just people who have experience and thoughts and ideas, and we do base that on reading and thinking. The article kind of goes on into some other things and kind of the misuse of terms and buzzwords. And I think Polly falls into this a lot. There are so many words. And so many ways that Polly gets represented that misunderstanding and misusing the terms and the buzzwords can really lead us down the wrong path. And it also intersects here with mental health that terms like gaslighting and triggered and abuse and toxic are wildly inaccurate most of the time when used online. And that leads not only to a lot of misunderstanding, but it also trivializes the serious mental health things that people are definitely experiencing and need the compassion for. Grace and help to go get, whereas internet memes and poly memes and things that intersect in that space can often ostracize that person, make them feel like they're not as, they're not as poly, they're not as, They're not as well as they like or their relationship isn't as strong as they like. Even worse, it really does devalue and minimize the very real experience that others are really seeing and experiencing and going through in their life. Yeah, I see this come out in a couple different ways. I love that you said, like, gaslighting and triggered. Like, when I think of the term triggered, I think of, like, To take it to an extreme, like a war veteran hears a car backfire and

they have an extremely violent response. But I've noticed in conversations with friends and on intermittent means like, oh, I'm triggered. I'm triggered. I'm triggered. Like, if you're triggered, And you're using that word to be like, oh, I don't like that. That's really different than a psychological trigger where you're getting a physical, emotional, and mental response to something. And it's the same thing with gaslighting. Like, your husband says something you don't like once. Oh, he's gaslighting me because, you know, whatever. Is he, though? Like, gaslighting is a psychological behavior that is a pattern over time. On the poly side of things, we get misrepresentation all the time where people will say, oh, I'm poly, but they're actually just cheating on their spouse, right? And then you'll get posts that you see where, you know, you're not really poly if red flag, red flag, red flag. Like if you experience jealousy, you're not really poly. And these types of phrases are, And these types of memes and like carousels that you see skirting across your, your Instagram board, they might resonate with you for a second, but in that media and in that delivery, You don't really take time to critically think about it the way you would if you were reading some of that advice in a book or listening to it in a podcast or something like that. It's just a one off. We're all just scrolling so fast that you take and internalize these little bits of information, these little buzzwords, and they become part of your vocabulary and part of your understanding on what is and isn't true. And that can lead you down a really dangerous path. Absolutely. And we're going to talk about ways that you can kind of evaluate the content that you're reading, but I think you make a really good point. We're all going so fast that we're seeing this and we're like, oh, this hits a itch that I have that I, I need to know more about this. There's also a lot of problem, I think, in kind of the rise of memes in both the self-help world, but also in the poly world. Of these kind of dangers of self-diagnosis, those types of things like you're really poly if the following things are true or you're not really poly if the things... Symptoms checklist, green flag checklist, red flag checklist, problem checklist. Right, right. Or worse, like, giving people non-evidence-based symptoms. Frankly, bullshit tools that help them evaluate their temporary frustration in a relationship and at the end of it are like, run. Just to kind of pull back a little bit on myself and a little bit more about my story, like Doc isn't just a... A childhood nickname that I have. I, I do have a terminal degree in education. I am a researcher. My primary focus is not necessarily relationships to be, to be clear. PhD is what he's trying to say. Exactly. But I, I understand how to read things and I also understand what I don't know and that's a big part of it. But the dangers of self-diagnosis in the poly space are also really real. Those quippy posts, those Things that are out there can often misidentify something that's going on in your life or give you some sort of language that, that then helps you to misidentify, which could potentially create a lot of problems. When you see things like that, they're like, oh, well, this validates how I'm feeling today. And so I'm just, I'm okay with that. What that's doing is it's delaying or maybe even replacing professional treatment that you need. Whether that's for yourself because you're struggling in poly and you need to, you need to be dealing, being, coming a better me to become a better we. Or whether that's some sort of couples counseling or polycule counseling with a poly-friendly therapist who can help you to work through the troubles that you're working through because you're like, I'm going to send this meme to my person and this really is going to help them understand my perspective. Maybe that's possible, I suppose, but it lacks real substance. And even worse than that is that if you're using memes and tropes and posts as a way of self-diagnosing and self-healing, It's gonna make recovery harder when you eventually reach that inevitable place where you're like, I need a therapist. Because you will have concretized. You will have crystallized. Your belief in internet memes and to the content creators, let me just say your first thought should be with this, create the danger of self-diagnosis here. Am I leaving out important information? Yeah, I think that's especially critical. And it opens the door for removing accountability from yourself. I have had this Yeah. I actually had a previous partner say to me that I don't even remember the name of the disorder. They found this super obscure disorder on the internet. They WebMD'd it or whatever they do. Told me they had this super obscure disorder and that was the excuse for all their behavior. Like, I have this that they had self-diagnosed. And they're like, this is my trauma. This is my whatever. And they dumped it on me as an excuse for why they were treating me poorly. And I had a choice there. Like, I could accept that. Or I could push them on it and say, okay, now that you know, what are you going to do with that information? And the answer was nothing. Like, it really was just a move to escape accountability for what was actually going on. For myself, I see myself in the self-diagnosis. I follow a lot of ADHD accounts and every time I see a meme or something like that, I'm like, oh, that's so real. And I'll send it to my partners and we'll have a little laugh or things like that. But before I received my official diagnosis several years ago, I would see those things and be like, wait, am I? So it can be a positive where you see yourself in it and it's kind of that, if it is to go and find more information and do more self-discovery, like if you see something that resonates with you, like these are all the signs of, you know, trauma or whatever, then

And you're like, oh, I should look into that. That's a good thing. But if you're seeing that as an excuse and being like, oh, well, that's what's wrong with me. And then standing on that, that's completely different. So don't let your self-diagnosis lead you down a path of avoiding accountability for who you are. Right. And, and, and absolutely, I think that's part of it is that also gets into, that also starts to create problems within your polycule too, right? Because. Now you're like, well, I'm traumatized because of X, Y, Z. So therefore you need to do, you know, ABC in order to, so. The danger of self-diagnosis here is, is really, is a really real thing. And being in poly, I think you're exactly right. Like you read things and they're funny memes or quips like that's hilarious, right? Do we have a calendar kink or is it a... Or are we poly like that's cute and funny. And we all kind of understand that, but the real danger comes kind of comes in, in this place where again, you're avoiding that accountability and just saying this explains everything. If you found a two slide carousel, real TikTok, one minute video that explains your entire life, you might need, you might need more therapy than you think. Um, but let's, that's my, that's my hot take. If you find anything on the internet that like shapes your entire thought process, then you probably should get another therapist. I will say specifically on the poly angle, there's another one that I've seen have come recently on self-diagnosis where it was like solo poly and- Anarchist where people who were living fully functional poly lives for a long time or whatever all of a sudden discover this new word through social media and then suddenly they rework their entire identity around it because of one slide or carousel and they're like, yeah, wait. That's me. There's, there's a lot of that. Right. Oh yeah. And Polly. Yeah. And what does that look like? It looks like kitchen table, Polly garden, party, party, Polly. Like, in the pressure to become KTP even though that's not, doesn't need to be a real thing. Like, this is also part of that self-diagnosis because it can go the other way. Like, you're not real poly unless you're friends with your meta. You don't need to be. The other thing is that I think because poly is becoming more prevalent and I do think that, that, that internet memes and posts and tropes and things like that provide us a language by which we can begin a language by which we can identify and, And a language by which we, like, I want to repeat that, a language by which we can begin our poly journey. And to some degree, even though Kat and I are both poly, we're on, we're Continually learning and continually doing the things and I think our podcast has brought us a lot of that because we do spend time researching and reading and sharing things back and forth and collaborating on ideas and. And that's really helpful. But along with that kind of rise of poly in the media and internet and social media is also this pressure from self-improvement culture, right? Because going to a therapist is, is scary. And we used to be able to go into a bookstore and buy a self-help book on, you know, how do I quit biting my nails or whatever it might be. But, you know, the self-improvement culture now has a megaphone with the internet. And so- There is this constant thing in your algorithm around I'm on a self-improvement journey. I'm on a healing journey and trying to just be myself one day at a time sort of thing. And all of that's fine. And it's good that you understand and recognize that you're, you are a person in growth mode because growth is important. But do those things really help you? Are they keeping you fixed? Are they allowing for you to be good one day but crappy the next day? Like, and I don't mean feel good and feel crappy. I mean, be good and be crappy. Like, is that what's going on? And one of the things that I often hear, especially in my work and in my spiritual world too, is this, this real statement of healing isn't linear. And my response to that is in my head, there's in my head, my first response is, well, that's bullshit. And my second response is that you're right. It isn't linear, but it's also not circular. We're not constantly going back to the beginning over and over again necessarily. But again, danger of self-diagnosis, if you're on a healing journey but you're not healing with a therapist or you're not getting the professional help that you need, And that includes in poly. If you're struggling in your relationship in poly and you're struggling with poly things, getting a poly coach, getting a poly therapist because you can get a We'll put a link to that in the show notes as well, how you can search for a therapist that is, that is, uh, more open or poly-friendly. And I have to thank my partner for that because She just sent it to me so that I could help. I could find another therapist that was more poly open. Kind of where this gets to it is this idea of being able to evaluate the content online more critically. And it really is a critical thinking skill. By the way, we're talking about internet memes. We're talking about relationship memes. We're talking about poly memes. We're talking about mental health memes. Also, the news. Also, we're living in the land of AI. Also, we're living in the land of misinformation. If you're not thinking critically, Here's a, there's some really good resources out there to help you develop your critical thinking skill set, not just in classes, but legitimately good books, legitimately good workshops, legitimately good webinars led by. They don't teach it in school anymore. It's probably what they say. I mean, they eventually teach it in at least how I went to school. Anyway, but But it really becomes critical for us as poly people to evaluate the means that we see, whether they're dealing with relationships, ourselves, mental health, well-being, because there are

intersections between poly and that. As well as neurodiversity and things like that. It's important for you to assess it and we'll give you more specific advice, but if this is where you're going to stop listening to the podcast, because maybe you're feeling a little bit triggered or maybe you're just feeling a little bit like you're wearing wet socks, which is probably more likely the feeling that you're having versus being triggered. Yeah. Ew. Right. Ew. That's exactly right. I'm not triggered. It's just gross. Um, it sucks. Yeah. So it's important, like going back to, going back to Marin's statistic, her claim is that over 50% of the advice that you see online is inaccurate. I don't know what that is for the poly space. We're all just poly-ing together. Absolutely seek out reputable sources and references for your mental health well-being, for your relationship well-being, for how you're operating and acting in your life, in your polycule, in your relationships. And there are places you can find reputable sources of information that is not Instagram or TikTok or YouTube. If you have a full-time job or a job that provides you employee assistance program benefits, You have those and you should take advantage of those and you can get into counseling and you can find a licensed counselor and we'll put a link to how you can use something like psychology today to find a counselor for open and poly. I want to jump back real quick to the whole self-improvement culture thing that we were talking about because I've seen, I kind of sit in a weird space because I also have a hand in the wellness community and I have a health Health and wellness several certifications in that lens and I work with people one-on-one and I seem to to see a lot of it going both ways where you'll see people kind of have that like go-getter attitude like I'm gonna fix this I'm gonna Muscle my way through basically. You just need more motivation. You just need more dedication. You just need more resources. And then you'll see people on the other side that are like, Healing isn't linear, you know, it's a journey, it's this, that, and the other thing, and they'll be very wishy-washy with it and use that, again, as an excuse to not move forward on a journey, right? They're like, well, I'm on my healing journey, right? Well, sweetie, your healing journey has been fifteen years and you're still in the same place you were fifteen years ago. So maybe you need to walk a little bit faster on that path. I have run into that a lot where people kind of get stuck in the journey and And this is not a hike where we're meandering through the woods and enjoying the scenery. They're stuck in the journey at the most painful parts and they can't push past it. And for Polly, that could mean repeating the same cycles over and over and over again and not enjoying your relationship. There's, there's definitely poly people out there that are really, really, I don't want to say addicted because again, that's misusing a word, but they're really addicted. Yeah. So much so that they forget to have an actual relationship that's based on, like, love and fun and happiness and the stuff that you want out of a relationship. I had the... Interesting interaction with someone a couple of months ago who was looking for a partner and we met in a mutual space and the first thing she did to me was... Kind of complain a little bit that she was having trouble finding a partner. And I was like, well, what are you looking for? Whatever. And she told me, I was like, oh, okay. I'm like, you know, that might be something I'm interested in. Conversation then pivoted. To her basically trauma dumping on me and explaining to me all of her problems, why nobody likes her, why nobody wants to get together with her, like, all this stuff. And I'm like, okay, from, I appreciate you being transparent with your history, but But I'm not seeing anything good here. Like, there was no balance to it where it was literally just a dump, a download of information of all the negatives. So I'm like, okay, maybe you need a little more, like, the internal counselor in me kicked in and was like, hey, maybe you need a little more work on your own journey before you seek to share that journey with someone else and build a relationship because it is hard to build relationships When you're not working on yourself and you're not in a place where you can have a healthy relationship. Nobody's perfect. You might not get to that magical destination but at least you're in progress. So I wanted to really point out that the self-improvement side and the self-improvement advice that you get from social media is Can be a little contradictory because you can have the rah-rah crew that's like, you just need to muscle through it. You just need to motivate yourself. You just need to do all of that. But you'll also have the people that are like, no, it's okay to take a break for twenty years and sit on your couch and eat bonbons and Stuff like that. You'll also get the people out there that are quick fixing it. Like, if you drink this green juice, you will magically lose twenty pounds and all your health things will disappear and things like that. Like, guys, that's just marketing. So having that art of your brain that sees things and thinks about them critically and be like, what is the source here? Like, Am I being sold a green juice from an MLM or am I being sold a green juice from a licensed physician who basically just uncovered a new plant in the Congo? Like, I don't, I don't know. Something like that. Like, Think about where the information is coming from before you just blindly accept information and make it part of your internal psyche as a foregone conclusion. I think that's really important. Which is really a good way to think about it. Is your poly meme that you just saw healing you or hurting you? I've seen so many of these that are like... Jealousy management, how to manage your jealousy, how

to do boundaries, how to do compersion, how to manufacture compersion, which let's be real. It does not happen to everybody. You might not have joy over other people. But there's not have and I think not not being able to manage your jealousy to like to some fantasy level. I think this is also part of it is like it creates it creates a deficit inside you. Yeah. When you're like, but I'm poly, I should just be able to do this. It creates unrealistic expectations. It does. And then you start to, then that starts to tear away, not just at you, but because you're being torn away, it starts to tear away at your relationship. Yeah. I really want you to think about how repeating these words to yourself and even to your partners, you know, without context or deeper exploration of what they are. It really does prevent you from emotional growth and true self-awareness in your relationships. Like if you can boil your personality down to a bunch of memes and that's it. There's work to be done there because we're humans. We're complex. That's not, we can't be summed up in a summary or in a meme. 100%. Yeah. So really try to look when you're, when you're consuming some of this content, how to distinguish between memes that kind of validate your personal experience, like my ADHD memes that I consume on the daily. Devalidate your personal experiences and then kind of see them through the critical lens of which ones are just reinforcing harmful relationship tropes or toxic positivity. The other part I see this a lot is... In some of the groups that I'm on, on Facebook, I will see a constant stream of negativity. And the result of that could also be like, there must be something wrong with my relationship because all these other people have things going on in their relationship. I, and I think that's an important point to like understanding that your social media is the victim of an algorithm. And so you might be finding yourself trapped also in this, in this algorithm that is just making things worse for you. It's, you know, you like to post about jealousy. So now you see seven posts about jealousy and three of those posts you liked and one of them that you shared. Well, tomorrow you're going to see fifteen And the next day you're going to see thirty and all it's going to do is reinforce a lot of negativity. Like both Kat and I come out, have a shared spiritual background. We believe and understand in synchronicities and things like that that people believe in and experience in their life. The algorithm is not a synchronicity. If you like a post on being angry with your partner because they, you know, they sleep all day, then you're going to find seventeen of those things in the next week. And that's just going to reinforce your Your sense of vitriol or venom or frustration. And that works the other way too. If it's like, oh my gosh, I just love it. I just love ice cream and you get all the ice cream and puppy posts forever. Like that can also give you that dopamine hit, but it is a dopamine hit. I love ice cream and puppies. So please send me those dopamine. Right. Dear algorithm, please send more puppies and ice cream. I mean, I just recently had to blow away a lot of my social media accounts so that I could restart. Yeah, I think that is important too. Like, I regularly take breaks from social media so I'm not getting inundated with messages that I'm not ready to receive or messages that I'm not in a good place to receive. I had to take a pause from a lot of my Facebook groups in the poly community simply because A lot of them were relationship advice and a lot of them were just people constantly asking like, is this okay? Is this not okay? Looking for validation, looking for help, looking for therapy, all that kind of stuff. And I got to a point where I was so saturated with everything else in my life that I just wasn't in the right headspace to be helpful but also consuming that information because I didn't want it impacting my relationships. Thank you for saying that. Right, Headspace. So, Kat, what are some questions that people who are listening can ask to kind of be a little bit more critical? I think the first thing that anybody should ask when they see something online and it resonates with them or it gets them emotional. I'll say that. So if you see a news article and you're feeling rage or whatever about it or you're seeing a meme and you're like, Oh, this makes me feel so obscene or this makes me feel so sad or if you're having an emotional response to a piece of content, the first thing you should ask yourself is, is the information accurate and credible? And we all know that that's in some cases a thankless job where you're trying to figure out if it's credible. But if you have people that you follow regularly that you do trust their content and it's professional and it's evidence-based, My number one phrase that I've been saying to everybody right now is I want the receipts. So if you're going to make a claim about something and you're going to and this is I mean, again, we're in the United States, so we're living in the heyday of, hey, this news is wild. I am constantly asking for the receipts. Like, if you're going to claim Going back to Doc's point earlier about 50%, where did it come from? What's your source? And can I go look it up myself? Because I'm not taking anybody's word for it anymore. Basically, my, my tolerance is very low for someone rattling off a stat and not having the receipts of where that came. I'm going to go look that up because A, I want to trust you and B, I want to trust the information that's going out there. So the first question is definitely is the information accurate? Is it credible? Or is it just someone's personal opinions and anecdotes? A lot of poly advice and memes and things like that are based on one person's Personal experience with it. And you'll see that in the comments when the monogues get on it. You'll see one monogamous person be like,

well, this never works because I had one friend one time. That had a poly relationship and it blew up their whole life. You'll see those one-off anecdotes from monogamous people, but you'll also see them from polyamorous people. They'll put them into memes. They'll put them into slides. There's value from personal experience, but try to be aware of what's being presented. Is it a one-off opinion or is it, you know, a factual like research study or something like And then just learn to sit with it. Like, if you read something, sit with it and think about it. Like, that's what happens in real critical thinking. It's not about immediate responses. It's about... Sitting in that uncertainty and sitting in that wonder and allowing yourself to get clarity. I think another question to ask really is this, what emotions is this post giving me right now? I don't say trigger, but what, what emotions does this post create within me and why? Like, am I engaging with this post, liking it, commenting on it, reposting this content? Because It aligns with maybe something that I hold really deeply and truly, or is it because it's hitting that current or immediate feeling that I, that I have or even worse because A feeling that you don't have, but you're like, oh my God, I can feel like that. Like that. That's like the worst. We really want to ask this question of, oh, I'm reading this post. Does this really align to my overarching values and my existing beliefs? Like, is this something that is, am I just experiencing a temporary setback or is this truly what I believe to be true? Or is this like, am I, is it just hitting an experience I'm having that is temporary, but in the grand scheme of things, not really, not really a long standing experience that I'm having. And lastly, again, understand that the algorithms are going to feed you what you interact with, which is important to understand. Is engaging with this, is it helpful to my overall well-being? Or is it just meaning that impulsivity that I'm feeling for whatever reason, whether that's a diagnosable reason or it's just like a I'm tired and hungry reason or whatever it might be. But pay attention to your emotional response to what you're reading. Same for headlines, by the way, right? Like it's that headline scrolling mentality of the world is ending. Is it? Yeah, that's always a tough one for me. Another great question to ask is could this content unintentionally harm or mislead someone? Again, going back to that personal anecdote, I remember one of the content creators that was going through a breakup and everything was flavored through the lens of that breakup. So that information that they were putting out there really wasn't unbiased. And again, we are having the value of our own personal experiences, but They were basically posting a lot of content that was reinforcing some, some tropes that you hear all the time, negative stereotypes, really over simplifying things. What was probably a very complex experience, you know, some of those relationships were, were years or decades long and they were simplifying it down to a couple of slides, right? That is no way the whole story, it's never going to be a whole story and Kind of cutting it down to that, those little quicks and putting that out there really can change your perception of everything. So Think about it in terms of there's always more to this story. So you really don't want to lead others to kind of misunderstand the nuanced concepts related to polyamory or whatever the topic is. You're boiling down a really complex issue into a couple of slides that have some marketing going into that and you got to ask why and what the intent is. You know, is the intent to get you riled up in illicit emotional response or is it That really gets to like asking, asking a little bit, especially about that oversimplification or what might be missing is also important. What, when I'm looking at this article or I'm looking at this post or I'm watching this video, giving yourself a moment to say, what's missing here? What might be oversimplified here in my own situation? Like, so this hits for me, but what might not be hitting? What might it be missing in my own life? What it might be missing in the content creator's life? What it might be missing just in general? Uh, and what's oversimplified? Like, does this, does this post or does this meme overlook some context or not provide context? Um, Going back to your story about the creator that was going through a breakup, like it was clear that that person was going through a breakup, but we only see one part of the context. This is her point of view. It's not, it doesn't, it lacks, it lacks balanced context. Is it not showing you the complexities of the relationship? Like what, You know, what other things might be going on like that we just don't know about. It's easy to oversimplify and it's easy to, uh, to vilify things that make us feel uncomfortable, right? Because that's how we deal with things. So is this post maybe distorting or trivializing real experiences that real people have going through going through problems is real. But is this post really like, is this post really helping that or like people might be going through A depression or a, or a medical issue that is causing them, causing them problems in this, the post that you just reposted is just going to exacerbate what they're already feeling when you could have just leaned in and helped. The kind of follow-up question when I'm reading things is how could I add context or nuance to this post if I decided to share it or if I decided to internalize it to my own life? What context and nuance for my own life should I apply here? I love that especially because we love to share like we see something that resonates and we love to share it but adding that additional layer of context like hey partner I'm sharing this with you because these sentences stood out to me. I would love to have a conversation

with you later about this because I think this is important to our relationship. That can be huge. Um, Does the post that you're sharing or does the post that you're reading contribute meaningfully to the conversation? Like, is it there to help build genuine understanding, empathy, and awareness? Or is it really just... Clickbait, trying to reinforce cliches and superficial understanding. And more importantly, does your contribution to it. So a lot of times people get into it in the comments section, like, are you adding to the conversation or are you just more noise in the room? Or are you just riled up by someone saying something in the comments that you don't like? So is it meaningful? Is it worth your time? Is it worth your energy? All that kind of stuff. I think of there's one content creator that I follow that is a transgender athlete and And I absolutely adore their content. It is amazing. It is always really interesting. It's really precise. So it's not full of fluff. It's precise. The receipts are there. It's all backed in data. It's backed in science. And they are really good at breaking down what they want to say about the topic and then how it's going to be presented. It is a fantastic use of the platform because it is educating on a really important topic and they don't engage in fights in their comment section, which I'm sure you can imagine there's a ton of them. They only engage in very meaningful ways where they can back up what they're saying and it's really it is authentic from their experience because they are a transgender athlete but it's backed up by studies by research and by science. So it is a meaningful contribution to the content community and also the conversation at large. You know, one of the things that because I, I have a diagnosed neurodiverse household and work in this space in my, in my professional world and, um, One of the things that I picked up along the way was kind of a three question test. Is what I'm posting true? Or is what I'm saying sharing true? Is what I'm sharing helpful? And is what I'm sharing kind? And this is what we use in our neurodiverse family to help overcome some of that raw honesty that sometimes comes out from our friends and In our family members, but, and from ourself, but being able to kind of go through that, go through that test is really important. And so while all these things are important to your personal consumption of internet means and tropes and media as a content creator, I hope that you take this into consideration as well. But also these things apply to the larger world on whole, especially around polyamory and the more it's, the more it grows in our media presence. So in our next segment, we're going to take a look at The media presence in the media spin as it were on polyamory. Hey listener, thank you for being here today. Today's topic may be a bit heavy or touch on items that are similar to depression. This is your reminder that if you suspect If you're experiencing

depression, we encourage you to seek support from somewhere outside of just an online podcast. Seek professional help in your area or use resources such as the National Alliance on Mental Illness N-A-M-I dot org. If you are in immediate need of support in the U.S., dial 988 for 24-7 free confidential support. You can also visit them online at 988lifeline.org. Always remember that feelings are temporary, you are valuable, and you are not alone. Thank you for being here, and thank you for being in our network. The last segment we talked a lot about how you can be a better consumer parenthetical content creator in the poly help space. Let's talk a little bit about celebrity polyamory because it's starting to come out more and more, isn't it, Kat? Yeah, let's talk about the famous people. Let's talk about famous people. And is, is their polyamory story? Is it a blessing? Is it a curse? So there's a couple of things that are kind of happening pretty recently to the recording of this. And that is Neo's poly relationship announcement, which you could read about on CNN. We'll link this in the show notes if you haven't read it. Uh, where this, um, where this, where Neo was talking about or introducing his four romantic partners and referring to his relationship as polyamorous and, and really it, Created quite a, a stir, quite a stir out there as you might expect. And again, thinking about the sensationalism of media and the sensationalism of media, Of the internet, right? We can expect that. Yes, there was going to be a reaction. Like there's positive things. Some, some of it is celebrating his openness and visibility and honesty about his poly relationships, which I think is great. And there are, of course, some negativity, right? The criticism of the power dynamics, calling it, uh, polygyny at like, which is one man, multiple women, harem collecting, uh, And of course, there's just like the just raw sensationalism, right? They're going to focus on how many partners does he have? What is their, what is their dynamic? How are, what, what are the ethics involved? How do they work on these things? And And then, of course, offering a probably unfounded advice on that, which we hope would get a get an actual polyamorous therapist. But but let's be real about that. And honestly, is what we're seeing in celebrity polyamory, is it actually polyamory or is it just... The sensational celebrity, all famous version of non-monogamy and we're just likening it to rock bands and singers and guitarists and groupies, right? Is that polyamory? Yeah. Or is it celebrity polyamory? And so it's just something to think about as you read this, like, is this my real life in polyamory? Would I also be Neo? Would I have four partners? Would, would I invite this into my comment section? Or is it just a little bit too sensational? Also, as a polyamorous person, as we read these stories, I think it's important to understand how does this impact Our life as polyamorous people. I got it. I got a text message when this came out. Like, is this what it looks like for you? Uh, No, decidedly not and decidedly less. And I'm okay with that. Like I just, but that's not my, that's not my poly life. Yeah, I would definitely say it does flavor the social opinion of polyamory and it impacts the public understanding of it, right? Because if Take it back to before you even knew you were polyamorous, right? We all live up, we all grow up in kind of a monogamous culture unless you have a unique family situation where that's the default and that's the norm, right? So the only, if the only public exposure and the only first time you see a polyamorous representation is in the media, is in the celebrities coming forward, I think most of us is our first experience with polyamory might have been the girls next door like Hugh Hefner with his bunnies. He was openly polyamorous. He had all these women living in his house. He was in a relationship with all of them, that kind of stuff. If that's the only representation that you see because you only consume that type of media, it does change the public perception of it. I remember coming out to a friend of mine about being polyamorous and saying, you know, I have a boyfriend and a husband now. And she's like, what? Like, Uh, like that sister wives show, you know, are these your Mr. Wives? And I was like, no, these are not my Mr. Wives. Like, these are not my brother husbands, as she said, which we'll talk about in a couple of minutes. About the TV section. You tend to look for patterns, right? You tend to look for patterns in other people's relationships and other things like that. You tend to try to see yourself there. So if I say to you, I'm in this relationship. You're going to go back in your little data drive in your head and try to figure out the first representation you've seen of that if it's something, if it's something you're not really familiar with. There's a lot of celebrities that have come out in quotes over the last several years about having open relationships and holiday amorous relationships. Sometimes they use that word. Sometimes they just say we're open. A few notable ones that I'll call out is Will and Jada Pinkett Smith. They long time were rumored to have an open relationship. It was discussed openly on Red Table Talk and I remember the backlash being like, oh, Will lets his lady step out on him and So there's always that different perception on whether it's the man doing it or the woman doing it. So women who have lots of partners. I found that in celebrity land, it's only acceptable if you're like bisexual or Or a lesbian because I think it can be fetishized a little bit more. That's really interesting. Yeah, I, I remember hearing like if you were, I think maybe it was Miley Cyrus. I could be misspeaking here. I didn't look this one up. It's not in my notes, but I think Miley Cyrus came out as being bisexual and then at one point in time she had like a girlfriend and a

boyfriend at the same time. Everybody's like, well, that's fine. Like, that was more socially acceptable than if a woman had, like, three men partners and things like that, which we can go down a whole different path about internalized misogyny in America, which is different. She identifies as pansexual. Okay. Thank you for real-time fact-checking me. But I remember that being a conversation for some people. Bella Thorne has also openly discussed being polyamorous and dating multiple partners. Tilda Swinton spoken about it quite a lot of times being in just a relationship that doesn't fit monogamous norms. Some people will not just say polyamorous. They'll just say we're non-monogamous or we're open or use any other. We're in an open relationship, I think, comes up often. Ezra Miller, Shayla Woodley, lots of others have mentioned it kind of either in roundabout ways or directly coming out, but I have noticed that the immediate response to a lot of those is to Like, pick at it and sensationalize it. Like, you say the one thing in the interview the one time and that's the thing that they focus on which I think is kind of A pattern that we see with society like we're drawn to the sensationalism the different the the slightly outside the norm and It's from a curiosity, but it's also from a, ooh, look at that type of scenario. So some questions that you can kind of explore with yourself when you get this information and possibly inevitably get questions about it are questions. Are these celebrities practicing polyamory? Are they just experimenting with open relationships? How does wealth and status affect their ability to navigate non-monogamy in ways that most people can't? Right. If, if you walk outside and say, hey, I'm polyamorous, there's probably going to be some backlash. But if you have your money to protect you, that conversation might be a little different. Probably also makes dates a lot easier. Oh, yeah. I can roll up in my Rolls Royce and take you out to dinner, doc. But yeah, you can date a lot more people when you got a lot more money to spend, right? You can have a lavish date every day of the week, which I'm sure Neo's doing with all his partners. But it's always important to remember that there is a disconnect between celebrity and reality. Even on reality TV, which we're about to talk about, everyday polyamory probably looks pretty boring. There's not a lot of big flashy dates. There's not a lot of that. You know, it's a lot of calendaring. It's a lot of logistics. It's a lot of that kind of stuff. But are they, are they showcasing something that's even relatable to you? That's like when you see people going on mega shopping sprees and TV shows like my super What is it, my super sweet sixteen or something? Like, is that reality? Or is it so far removed from reality that what you're seeing them do doesn't even resonate? I'm not saying that we take relationship advice from celebrities, but I think sometimes... How they show up in the

media, we internalize some of that alongside those memes that we talked about in section one. Hey there, amazing human. Just a quick pause to say thank you for tuning in to the Poly Pathways podcast. Whether you're here for your first episode or you've been along this polyamorous journey from the start, we see you. We appreciate you and we're so glad you're here. If you're loving this conversation, we've got a little request. Don't keep all this polyamory goodness to yourself. Hit that subscribe button or follow button wherever you're listening right now so that you don't miss an episode. And then share this podcast with a friend. Whether it's the deep dives, practical tips, or little doses of relationship realness, there's plenty more to come and we don't want you to miss a thing. And hey, let's keep this conversation going. Follow us on social media at Polly Pathways Podcast wherever you like to social. That's where the magic happens between episodes. Updates, behind the scene moments, and yes, The occasional meme, because let's face it. Polyamory is definitely meme worthy. Your support through subscribing, following, and sharing is the best way to make it possible for us to keep creating content for this incredible community. So thank you. You're the reason this podcast exists. Alright, let's get back to the episode. Now let's talk about reality TV, which is honestly, this is a wild week to be talking about it because there was news in the poly community, which we are absolutely going to talk about. But I want to skip back a section and talk about reality TV. Um, kind of television's portrayal of non-monogamy. Yeah, so this is not an area where I think you or I have a lot of experience. So here's our caveat. I don't watch reality television. I think we've discussed this in other episodes that if it's pretty much, if it's not Star Trek, it's not happening. And, and. in the odd horror movie with my youngest on Fridays, but which has been a terrible experience as of late, but So how does television's portrayal of non-monogamy hurt or help individuals or couples who are looking for that sort of different relational path? This is also an area where I've had, I've had input people who are like, who find out that I'm polyamorous and are like, so it's kind of like that sister's wives thing. Right. And I'm like, no, it's not. Like, that's a different, that's polygamy, that's a different thing, and here's how it goes. But it's difficult when they see the portrayal on Things like sister wives or brother husbands and they see that portrayal and they, and that's the whole frame of reference that they have. So again, as a consumer, um, of polyamorous information or just information in general. We want to probably also recognize that we if our frame of reference is limited, we need to know what it's limited by and what it's limited to. So sister wives kind of introduced mainstream audiences, right? More and more people to this idea of plural marriage, right?

This idea that I'm, I'm wedded to these other women. They operate and act as sister wives and it's based on religious polygamy, right? Which is not egalitarian. It is very egalitarian. In many cases, it's very much a patriarchal type of setup with a lot of command and control type things set up in there. But it extends. It goes further, doesn't it, Kat? Yeah, oh, it definitely goes further than that. And like I said, my friend came up to me and was like, oh, you should go on TV since you guys have this all figured out and start girls. Part-year-old joke called Brother Husbands and this was, ah, this was like four years, maybe, like three and a half years ago that somebody said this to me. Well, lo and behold, they did actually come out with brother husbands as a show. And one of the polyamorous content producers that I follow, Progressive Love Academy. So Kenya is very out about having partners. She has multiple husbands. And she was the star of the show. Full disclosure, I did not watch the show because, again, I don't watch reality TV. We're about to talk about the only reality TV show I did watch. But it was the attempt to kind of flip the gender dynamic and flip The script, as we know about TLC and we know about these types of shows, is this really a true representation of polyamory or is it just for shock value? For this particular show, they did go out and find polyamorous people, but because it's TV, they get to rewrite their story through the lens of an editor. So even though they are trying to gain validity by using people that are actually polyamorous, you still have to question what you're seeing. It's a TV show. It's meant for entertainment. So there are pieces and parts that are gonna be cut and edited in such a way that really can change the story. I'm remembering a friend of mine who was on a reality TV show Gosh, seven years ago, maybe. And I remember she was so excited about the premiere of the show. Like, they went and did the filming. She couldn't talk about it for a long time. The show came out. She was so upset. Over the way they edited her, they basically cast her into a role. They made her look really stupid. They made her look really mean. They basically rewrote her entire personality. And people were giving her lots of hate online. Because of the way she was edited. Now that's not a representation of who she is in real life, but it fits the narrative of the show. So Even though I did not watch the show, I can imagine there were some shenanigans that went on where they tried to cut it in a specific way to sensationalize it to the audience. Interestingly enough, I did watch a reality show, I think mid-COVID, I think. There was a show that came out on Netflix called How to Build a Sex Room. That I think was a very good representation of polyamorous people because one of the, I think there was only like eight or Eight to ten episodes of this show. I watched them all because it was super fascinating. I loved the lady that they

had on there. They were building... Dedicated romance or sex rooms for couples and in one case a polyamorous group and not even all the, not even all the partners were represented on that show, but it showed that. There was a space for them to be together and from what I could tell all the interactions that they showed on that show of this polyamorous group. Was positive, right? The polycule itself, they made agreements about what they wanted in the room, they made requests of what they wanted included in the room, like it was a very healthy poly representation that I think up to that point, I had not seen on television. So I don't know which episode it is. I'm about to look it up. But that was a good representation of like a polycule on TV that I can call to memory. Yeah. And that was later in the, later in that series, but also, yeah, that was a very nice representation of how it went. Of course, then like, yeah, we're talking about sister wives and brother husbands, but the real opening, um, For a lot of people into what polyamory might look like from a limited frame of reference is The Bachelor and The Bachelorette. Because it is kind of poly like dating. They're all around. They all know each other exists. But the truth of the matter is it's pretty, it's a pretty monogamous show. And, and this is just my opinion. If you like The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, good for you. And I, I love that. I find it toxic as hell. And I find, and again, because maybe it's the, it's the sensationalism. It's the edits for drama. It's all that stuff that. Draws us in as an audience or a consumer of this media. And that makes it feel like we're like, oh yeah, like this is like a fricking disaster. It doesn't need to be chaotic. Polly doesn't need to be chaotic. It doesn't need to be drama. And it doesn't need to be your partner sniping and being catty or shitty with each other either but again if that's your limited frame of reference then that's probably what you think might be the case so The bachelor and the bachelorette just thrive on that poly dating structure where they've got one person, they're dating all these people. I can't even imagine a world in which dating twenty people and trying to make eliminations would be something I would even mildly entertain. That, that would definitely be a point where I'd be like, I need to call my therapist. Something is wrong in my head. Here's the thing, regardless of whether it's dating a lot of people or poly dating or whether you think this is what polyamory looks like, it ends in one way and that is monogamy. It probably has another end, which is bad. Yeah, yeah. The, the, the ending of monogamy, right? That's really kind of in it. And I think that shows like that really perpetuate a couple of, a couple of, I think, bad poly traits. And that is one is. Polly until you've met me or Polly until you've meet until you find the one person, but also Polly for me, but not for thee. You don't see a lot of the bachelors

or the bachelorettes or their dating prospects dating each other or talking about them dating other people outside the show. It promotes misconceptions and it promotes a lot of bad things. Perception of the poly space. Yeah, and I think it really enforces the whole that it's okay to be poly as long as you're looking for the one. Like, it's poly until you find that one person that's going to make your poly go away. And it hurts me to see the number of people out in the community that are That internalize that whether they realize it or not, but there's a lot of people that go out and they date multiple partners with the idea that Eventually they're going to find the one to settle down with and I think that's really super invalidating to everybody who is having poly experiences. Right. Caveat though, Kat, like there are, there are lots of people who go from poly to monogamous and that sort of ambi, ambi, uh, Multi-amory or ambi-amory, I can't think of the, I can't, that's, yeah, that's a, that's a hard thing to say, but there are people who, You know, can have a relationship with multiple people and can have a relationship with one person and they're still, we still consider them part of the poly community, but I, I, I absolutely understand your point. I'm just a caveat to people out there who are monogamish. Monogamish. I love that term. Yeah, I, I really just, some, especially The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, all that kind of stuff, like, it's, I hate the stereotypes that it reinforces, like about there's one main partner and then there's additional ones. So the traditional hierarchical, it's always about who you're going to marry, who you're going to have that picket fence with, who you're going to, you know, live with, all that kind of stuff. And then there's just always playing up the jealousy and the competition side and things like that. That stuff is just really, really crazy. There's a book out called The One to Watch that talks about basically a larger woman. She self-identifies as a fat woman being the first fat woman on a reality show. And how that show ends in the book, I think, is... Really healthy and a very interesting take on how people are talking to each other at these shows that we probably aren't seeing behind the scenes. Like, it's probably not as toxic as we think it is, but they talk a little bit about Casting everybody in a specific role like the nerd, the jock, the whatever, like those traditional types but I really don't think that any of these shows truly reflect the diversity that is present in a lot of polyamorous relationships. All the different types of people, roles or no roles, like, I think it's just really, really different than what they can contain on TV. And I think that, yeah, and I think that it also, just like monogamy, it tries to cast polyamory in one light and try to, and it tries to put it in a box. There is no right way to poly. You just need to have the tenacity and And the value to do it the right way

or for you, like you need to be able to talk about it and you need to be able to, you know, what these shows reinforce all these toxic, terrible behaviors, not to say toxic, but just terrible behaviors. But in those things do happen in poly because we're our human beings and we're in relationship and stuff like that's going to happen. But if you don't have the value and the tenacity to see your way through it, I think that That's where those shows stop, right? They're like, oh, we're going to create a problem and blow this up. Whereas in polyamory, we want to be able to have the value to commit to that relationship over time. But, Kath, what if? Like, are we ready to For a real poly show with a real polyamory polycule? Like, is that a thing that we could be ready for? Is the world even close to being ready for something like that? So I have thought about this probably way too much. And it is, as I commented to you before we started recording, it is hilarious that I put together this outline and started making these notes. Literally two days before Polyfamory actually came out that they had filmed with TLC a show when Teo was pregnant. And so they filmed over a year ago and all this stuff. But basically, I'm going to read to you what I wrote down as my notes. Before that news broke. So this episode is going to come out after that news is out because it just came out two days ago. But I wrote before they announced that I was like, what would an ethical polyamory reality show look like? And I specifically wrote in my notes that Polly family probably had the best chance at representing us accurately. And I, I wrote in my notes, it could be like John and Kate plus eight, but way less toxic because basically John and Kate plus eight was, oh my gosh, there's all these kids. What do we do to manage this properly? And in their situation, they have a beautiful blended family, multiple dads, multiple moms, and lots of kids. What a great representation that would be. But I wrote that my concerns would be that sensationalized editing and filming really plays to the drama like TV shows are entertainment. They're not, even the documentaries, we call them mockumentaries for a reason because they're not real. They have to play up an angle in order to get people interested and engaged. It's a psychological game. It's marketing. It's all those things in one and a lot of the drama and negativity is what draws audiences in. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Because that's what people are there for. They're there for the entertainment. I think that that nature of reality shows is really to manufacture that drama. And since polyamorous lifestyles for many of us is like a lifelong thing, And it's very normal for us. Like, if you're a long-term polyamorous person, you probably just think of it as normal until somebody points it out. I've gotten to the point where it's normalized where it's like, yeah. These are my partners. This is my life. Like, and it would be really boring, I think, for people to watch. Like, if we just portrayed the ins and outs of our daily life, it would have a very... Truman Show-esque quality to it where we're just watching the paint dry because our lives, I don't think, are really all that much different from other people's lives, especially if there's kids involved and more partners. It's just more people. There's more conversations. There's more interactions. So there's really not a whole lot of drama. There can be. I'm sure there's some polypies out there that really thrive on drama. But the representation to the outside, I think, of just a normal life would be somewhat boring. So they have to rewrite it with the script in order to make it TV-worthy. I don't think... Largely, to answer your question, I don't think the world's ready for just a boring representation of Polly because it's not mainstream enough. It's not like you can be What was it, the newlyweds? So Jessica Simpson, way back the other day, and the newlyweds. And it's like, well, what's interesting about newlyweds? Nothing. Except they... Probably boink like bunnies. The show didn't last a long time because there wasn't a really much interesting beyond the fact that she was being portrayed as super duper dumb, I guess. I don't know. But the most, um, I think incredible thing that this news that dropped and it's, you know, we'll drop their handles in there. They're a great family. I love reading their stories. I don't personally know them, even though I think we've exchanged comments once or twice from one of my other accounts, but yeah. I love that when the news broke, they said, I hope you can tell the difference between TV and real life. And anybody that has been following them for the past several years through their journey, They know what they're like. And they said, you know, it's been a year since we filmed this and we're all still here. We're all still living together. So if you hear the drama or you see the drama, you know, it's all manufactured because that's TV. And some of the other content creators have really jumped in and they're like, oh, TLC did them dirty. But it's not that they're doing it. Like, TLC has a job to do. Their job is to sell spots. Their job is to create content. Their job is to give the people what they want, basically. My biggest concern is that now there's an additional layer of pressure for them to hold the banner of being the perfect representation of what polyamory is. If you're the only polyamorous person in your friend group, you might feel this as well. And anytime you have relationship issues or you have any conflict, people are really quick to say, oh, of course it's not working out because you're polyamorous, right? Right. So if things were to go sideways after the release of a show like this, It would be a very quick, you know, falling down the hill into the narrative of, well, of course it didn't work because they're polyamorous. People are really

quick to make assumptions and And the added pressure on us as polyamorous people, and I'm sure on the polyamory group, is they're now going to feel that additional pressure that if anything goes wrong in their relationships and they don't represent as completely perfect and happy, People are going to look at them through the lens of a microscope. I hope that's not the case, but that's my biggest concern when stuff like this comes out. When you make yourself a public target, the pressure is on yourself to be the, like, The representation of the happiest version of this lifestyle, which is not fair because nobody's perfect and nobody ever will be. But that lens is there and I worry about that a little bit. Yeah. And the only real way to tell your story authentically, right. Is to tell it yourself. And so that's, you know, I hope that I hope that for poly because I think poly family deserves. To be portrayed honestly and in transparently because I think that they do great things. I'm sure just like anything, right? We pull the camera back. We see that there are, um, We see that there are issues that they have to face together as a group. And that's, that's absolutely going to be true. But again, like I, I hope that for them, this, this portrays them fairly. Yeah. But I also met a lot of people who've been on said reality TV shows only to find out that most of it is just editing craziness. Yeah, even watching the edit of the trailer for it, and I did read a couple of the comments and I stopped because they were largely negative. They're like, we need to see this. Why are people doing this? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Think of the children. Like, we never think of the children when we're talking about things, the old funding books. Yeah, think of the children. But yeah, I really do think there is that additional lens of it that can be jarring. And At the end of the day, people are people. People are imperfect. Families, especially family dynamics. Like, just think of the family you grew up in. There's probably dysfunction there, public or not, no matter how well mommy tries to hide it or daddy tries to hide it. Families are rife with conflict because it's multiple personalities. Small children are a pain in the butt. We love them, but they're a pain in the butt. So there's, there's always those layers of complexity. Like there is no picture perfect family out there. And zoom back and think, of course they have issues. Of course they have problems. But when you're watching the TV show, those probably aren't the real issues that they experience in real life. It's probably... Something that you could pick out that like, oh, this will play well on TV and then work through that issue at that time. And will they get emotional? Sure, they'll get emotional because they can treat it as a real problem or maybe it is a real problem, but... I would, I would not watch the show if you are going to go watch the show. I might watch a few episodes if I can make time for it. I would watch it with a grain of salt and be like, yeah, it's still reality TV and reality TV by its nature is not reality. Sharing is caring, and we're all about sharing resources. If you know a company that would love to partner with Poly Pathways, please have them reach out to us at polypathwayspodcast at gmail.com. Thanks for listening. And I think that brings us really nicely to kind of the kind of the wrap up, right? Is that, that is that you're consuming internet media memes and tropes and posts and reels and TikToks and shorts and all of those things. You're seeing celebrities come out in the, in the news media and in the media in general talking about their open or non-monogamous relationship and we're starting to see It represented on TV. All of these things, these platforms, these, these mediums are designed to keep you on platform, which means that they're going to hit Some sort of dopamine trigger in your brain that makes you scroll again, makes you maybe double tap for the like. But you really need to take a look at how these things are affecting you as an individual, your partners, and your polycule. There is a double-edged sword here. There's absolutely helpfulness in having a word or a language or a phrase or even a prompt. To create a conversation within yourself or within your polycure with your partners. But that's not, it's not just the post. It's not just send the post. It's have a conversation. It's also recognizing that. As a polyamorous group, as a polycule, or as a couple in polyamory, your value cannot be on sharing a goddamned internet meme. Or a, or a news story, or I saw in The Bachelor that this happened, or in Polly, in Polly Family on TLC, this happened, and this is what we're experiencing, and so this is the end of the world. As polyamorous people, we are dedicated to the value of being able to continue our relationship with Rupture and repair, shore things up, improve and enjoy our life together. But if your value is just in sharing a trope or sharing a meme or sharing a story, And it's just there to reinforce your emotional impulse. Then, then that's a, that's a caution for you to pull back a little bit and really, really to. Look inward and be a more critical consumer of poly memes and things. That said, we also want to know what your favorite poly memes and things are. Like, is there a show out there that you think... Represent something more completely or an account out there that's doing really good work that's evidence-based that you verify that you really enjoy and that speaks to you. Some of the time and we want to know your story. I also want to know a little bit of your story about how you don't engage with social media and you don't. Do those things because of maybe why you're, how it's affected you individually or how it's affected your polycule. But as always, if you're enjoying this show, we got other ones coming up. Like, what about the kids? As Kat said, like, who's going to talk about the kids? What about the children? And, and honestly, what I'm looking really forward to, and that's kind of creating, maybe it's akin to this, creating an external environment of joy for your polycule. And I think that that's really an important thing as we, As Kat and I move forward with the Polly Pathways podcast, we encourage you to subscribe, leave a review, follow us on social media at Polly Pathways podcast, wherever you like the social media. But we're just glad that you're part of the discussion and we're glad that you're part of it. And I hope that this episode gave you at least a pause in your internet scrolling, doom scrolling, poly doom scrolling, algorithm scrolling. Habit to maybe change the way that you think about how these tropes both help us, but also hurt us and how we can be a more careful consumer of poly media. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, consider subscribing and follow us at Poly Pathways Podcast on all the social medias that you enjoy.