Pełna transkrypcja odcinka The Hormonal Accelerant: How Midlife Brings Patterns to the Surface with Dana Bowman

00:04:46.694 And of course, and this is just the really quick, I'm giving you like the quick background. 00:04:46.725 --> 00:04:49.754 So this is like the liner notes and, uh. 00:04:50.095 --> 00:04:52.644 I just kept thinking I was too smart for that. 00:04:52.644 --> 00:05:01.675 I, I was an a plus perfectionistic kid, which turned into an A plus perfectionistic, totally messed up codependent young adult. 00:05:02.004 --> 00:05:10.480 Um, and because of those tendencies, I just thought I could outsmart, um, any sort of addicted profile and any sort of addicted behavior. 00:05:11.660 --> 00:05:14.120 Come to find out I wasn't smart enough for it. 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:19.220 I, I actually didn't really, there's a chapter in bottle called I didn't Dance on tables. 00:05:19.250 --> 00:05:24.079 Um, I wasn't like a problematic blackout party girl by any means. 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:29.240 In fact, my story was pretty much I drank, if I drank, um, it was by myself. 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:32.149 I didn't want anyone to see, like me out of control. 00:05:32.149 --> 00:05:35.180 I wanted to have a very perfectionistic. 00:05:35.750 --> 00:05:39.680 Just happy little boxed up life, everything tidy, right. 00:05:40.009 --> 00:05:43.009 Um, and I kept that going and wore a lot of masks. 00:05:43.009 --> 00:05:47.180 I was a teacher, a high school English teacher for many years and I was really good at it. 00:05:47.180 --> 00:05:48.379 I will just say that right now. 00:05:48.379 --> 00:05:54.920 I, I will come out and say that everything on the outside looked pretty darn, um, perfect. 00:05:54.980 --> 00:05:55.459 And. 00:05:56.279 --> 00:06:03.095 Do you remember like watching those acts with the people that would spin the plates like that, that old fashioned act where they'd spin the plates? 00:06:03.095 --> 00:06:03.774 I sure that was me. 00:06:03.774 --> 00:06:04.055 I sure do. 00:06:04.055 --> 00:06:04.214 Yep. 00:06:04.214 --> 00:06:04.375 Okay. 00:06:04.375 --> 00:06:04.735 Mm-hmm. 00:06:04.875 --> 00:06:05.095 Yep. 00:06:05.095 --> 00:06:09.689 Spinning the plates and I was keeping those plates spinning for a long time. 00:06:09.750 --> 00:06:13.290 And then what happened is I got married kind of later in life. 00:06:13.290 --> 00:06:18.750 My husband and I joked, we got married at like 36 and 37, so we're like nearly dead. 00:06:18.779 --> 00:06:19.259 We always. 00:06:19.314 --> 00:06:23.245 Joke that we were like with our walkers walking down the aisle, the geriatric 00:06:23.245 --> 00:06:24.535 marriage, like they called the 00:06:24.535 --> 00:06:25.014 geriatric. 00:06:25.014 --> 00:06:25.105 Yes. 00:06:25.105 --> 00:06:26.545 The geriatric marriage and yeah. 00:06:26.545 --> 00:06:26.754 Great. 00:06:26.754 --> 00:06:27.745 Congratulations. 00:06:27.774 --> 00:06:27.925 Mm-hmm. 00:06:29.634 --> 00:06:39.774 We made it, you know, and, um, I figured pretty much that, um, from marriage and there on, we moved, I started teaching at another

high school that everything was just bliss. 00:06:40.074 --> 00:06:43.014 Um, but because of the stress of that, my drinking was kind of going up. 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:57.329 And, uh, then I had kids and kids, uh, if you didn't know, um, it's in their contract that they are not going to like fit into your perfect little life and keep everything tidy. 00:06:57.750 --> 00:06:57.839 Yep. 00:06:57.870 --> 00:07:03.899 Um, and so they kind of blew me out of the water in terms of like motherhood and the isolation of that. 00:07:03.899 --> 00:07:05.189 I quit my teaching job. 00:07:05.189 --> 00:07:06.060 I was home. 00:07:06.449 --> 00:07:07.019 Um. 00:07:07.084 --> 00:07:09.095 And I just got very, very depressed. 00:07:09.095 --> 00:07:11.014 I had postpartum with both kids. 00:07:11.074 --> 00:07:19.235 Um, but actually when I look back, I, I kind of wonder, was it postpartum or was it just alcoholic tendencies, like coming to the surface? 00:07:19.355 --> 00:07:20.915 Well, you know, it's interesting. 00:07:21.185 --> 00:07:27.514 You, you talk about like the first, like you got sober after having kids and had some struggles right. 00:07:27.514 --> 00:07:28.595 Around perimenopause. 00:07:28.774 --> 00:07:30.334 These things aren't an accident. 00:07:30.485 --> 00:07:32.495 I mean, we talk a lot about a DH, adhd. 00:07:32.785 --> 00:07:47.185 On this podcast and how many women are diagnosed with A DHD either after having kids or during perimenopause, because when hormonally, the wheels come off the wagon, anything else that's bubbling under the surface is suddenly going to become unmanageable. 00:07:47.185 --> 00:07:48.564 It's almost like a catalyst. 00:07:48.564 --> 00:07:49.555 Well, I'll show up. 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:50.879 Yeah, it'll show up. 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:53.970 And I, I always felt like, um, it's a catalyst. 00:07:53.970 --> 00:07:54.779 Exactly. 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:59.730 Um, I don't want people to think that I'm like blaming my children for, you know, what happened to no. 00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:08.850 'cause it certainly wasn't on them, but they just, they just kinda, um, scratched the surface and opened up the wound that was already kind of festering there. 00:08:08.850 --> 00:08:13.139 And my, as soon as I was done breastfeeding and all of that, my drinking just went off the charts. 00:08:13.139 --> 00:08:14.490 It was really scary. 00:08:14.819 --> 00:08:17.009 And within about two years, I was hiding. 00:08:17.350 --> 00:08:26.319 You know, vodka in my upstairs closet and, and really was off the charts an alcoholic, full on, and, and then went into recovery and got sober. 00:08:26.709 --> 00:08:31.180 Um, all of that to say, I, I wrote two books about that. 00:08:31.180 --> 00:08:33.850 And then I talked about, you know, the whole journey with that. 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:37.000 And this is what happens sometimes. 00:08:37.090 --> 00:08:42.909 Um, alcoholism is really tricky and is any addiction is really tricky because it will constantly tell you that you don't have it. 00:08:43.710 --> 00:08:53.070 Um, so for example, if you got cancer and you were really sick from cancer, cancer would not keep trying to tell you that you didn't have cancer. 00:08:53.730 --> 00:08:59.789 Um, you would know it, you'd have the diagnosis, you know, the doctors would be treating you, et cetera. 00:09:00.090 --> 00:09:09.000 But with addiction, uh, addiction just messes with your mind in the sense that you're just constantly playing this game of, no, I'm fine. 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:09.600 Everything's. 00:09:09.835 --> 00:09:10.495 Okay. 00:09:10.495 --> 00:09:15.174 I've been sober now for so many years like that, that was me when COVID happened. 00:09:15.865 --> 00:09:15.955 Right. 00:09:15.955 --> 00:09:23.695 And, and once again, um, and this is kind of what I focus on in the book is that recovery change and, and life changes. 00:09:23.695 --> 00:09:34.945 Like you said, when we, when we have the PerMon menopausal symptoms and things like that, it, it's a symptom and then it just unfolds and, and reveals new stuff underneath. 00:09:35.309 --> 00:09:37.559 That we have to start dealing with. 00:09:37.830 --> 00:09:39.419 That's a perfect way to describe it. 00:09:39.419 --> 00:09:39.750 It was tough. 00:09:40.500 --> 00:09:40.889 Yeah. 00:09:41.250 --> 00:09:41.700 Yes. 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:55.740 That these big transitional moments for women that are both like significant in terms of where we are in life, but also hormonally, like, I think we cannot underestimate how bound we are to our hormonal fluctuations and cycles. 00:09:55.740 --> 00:09:59.220 And, and reveal is really the perfect word, right? 00:09:59.370 --> 00:10:03.450 Because it, it does, it makes it impossible to hide things anymore. 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:04.830 You just simply can't. 00:10:05.384 --> 00:10:09.644 It goes back to identity and I just kept, I kept writing and thinking about that. 00:10:09.674 --> 00:10:14.804 My identity when I first got sober, the identity thing was all about the new mom. 00:10:14.924 --> 00:10:28.575 Being a new mom, being a perfect new mom, like, you know, making the organic homemade, uh, pureed vegetables for their, you know, and making sure they never had sugar and making sure they were always alive and like, you know, it was just so. 00:10:29.190 --> 00:10:31.799 Much about the perfect mom. 00:10:31.860 --> 00:10:39.210 And then as soon as menopause happened, I mean, and then there was this lull in between there where you're just trucking along and you're a mom. 00:10:39.210 --> 00:10:46.860 And I, I kind of got comfortable in my recovery and I kind of got comfortable with my life and then menopause happened and it just shook everything up. 00:10:46.860 --> 00:10:48.179 It, I went gray. 00:10:48.179 --> 00:10:49.024 I, that was a choice. 00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:52.309 By the way, and I, I allowed my hair to, to go gray. 00:10:52.309 --> 00:10:57.649 I ended up doing a

TED Talk about it, which was crazy'cause I think I'm the only TED talk out there. 00:10:58.129 --> 00:11:05.990 It was a TEDx talk and it was about going gray and my identity as a woman and what that did to my identity. 00:11:05.990 --> 00:11:08.059 It was crazy and I loved how amazing love. 00:11:08.065 --> 00:11:08.215 I loved that. 00:11:08.539 --> 00:11:08.809 Yeah. 00:11:08.809 --> 00:11:09.320 I love that. 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:13.220 I did it because it was actually pretty well received and a lot of women responded. 00:11:13.220 --> 00:11:14.870 Were like the whole going gray thing. 00:11:15.350 --> 00:11:15.679 Um, oh, we'll 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:17.509 link to that in the show notes for sure. 00:11:17.514 --> 00:11:17.725 Yeah. 00:11:18.174 --> 00:11:19.105 It was fun. 00:11:19.105 --> 00:11:21.565 It was a, it was a crazy thing, but it was fun. 00:11:21.595 --> 00:11:31.434 Um, and going gray, getting older, starting to wrinkle, starting to like, not think of yourself as this young, sexy thing anymore. 00:11:31.434 --> 00:11:36.774 And, and you're, you can kind of get stuck in some really big, um. 00:11:37.845 --> 00:11:39.735 I mean, I'm sure every woman can relate. 00:11:39.735 --> 00:11:43.664 The whole getting older process for women is hard. 00:11:43.664 --> 00:11:46.544 Like we're supposed to be defy age. 00:11:46.544 --> 00:11:51.884 Like what, what, what do we hear about on every commercial in terms of like a facial moisturizer? 00:11:51.884 --> 00:11:54.735 You know, you have to defy age, you have to beat it. 00:11:55.004 --> 00:12:02.205 You have to make sure you're still young and pretty if you're gonna get irrelevant older, do it pretty, you know, whatever you try to do. 00:12:02.205 --> 00:12:03.705 So I had that hitting me. 00:12:04.004 --> 00:12:06.434 And then my recovery also was like. 00:12:06.809 --> 00:12:12.899 I had become, perhaps, I don't wanna say apathetic about my recovery, but it had become comfortable. 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:21.330 And then as I was going into these menopausal symptoms, one of my biggest ones was anxiety in middle of the night. 00:12:21.330 --> 00:12:21.419 Mm-hmm. 00:12:21.659 --> 00:12:25.500 Gasping for air, not able to breathe. 00:12:25.559 --> 00:12:25.919 Um. 00:12:26.544 --> 00:12:35.335 Doom, like this whole, uh, like three in the morning, um, I would be swept with these horrible feelings of I'm gonna die. 00:12:35.335 --> 00:12:42.625 I mean, it was just off the charts and I'd never had panic attacks or anxiety like that before, and I could remember getting up. 00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:52.830 And walking down our hall and at the end of our hall there's a bathroom and it looks out to this, there's a church right across from the back of our house and there's a little stained glass window of an angel. 00:12:52.830 --> 00:12:55.980 And I would just stare at that angel and be like, what is happening? 00:12:55.980 --> 00:12:58.230 I want to die, or I feel like I'm gonna die. 00:12:58.740

--> 00:12:58.830 Mm-hmm. 00:12:59.070 --> 00:13:01.200 And when I was drinking. 00:13:01.710 --> 00:13:04.980 I used to, and the babies were up in the middle of the night or whatever. 00:13:04.980 --> 00:13:09.840 I used to take those babies and I would walk'em down the hall and I would stare out at that angel. 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:20.549 And it was like the exact same feelings were happening, the anxiousness, the lack of sleep, the sweat, um, all of the aches and pains that were coming back. 00:13:20.610 --> 00:13:23.759 And I was like, I feel like I'm drinking again. 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:26.549 I feel like this is like a shame hangover happening. 00:13:26.549 --> 00:13:26.789 Like, 00:13:26.850 --> 00:13:27.600 oh wow. 00:13:27.629 --> 00:13:30.570 It's, it's bringing up a lot of the same. 00:13:30.779 --> 00:13:44.519 Literally physical feelings, physical bodily feelings, but also a lot of the anxiousness and depression that I dealt with when I was in my last days of drinking and my early days of sobriety too. 00:13:44.524 --> 00:13:45.225 It was mm-hmm. 00:13:45.419 --> 00:13:55.470 It, it just brought it all back and it was the first time since, I don't know, since early recovery or mid mid recovery when I had had that thought. 00:13:55.875 --> 00:13:59.865 You know, what would solve this is you could just have a glass of wine. 00:13:59.955 --> 00:14:03.585 And I hadn't had those thoughts in ages in years, really. 00:14:03.945 --> 00:14:06.945 Um, like I said, I got sober in 2014. 00:14:07.605 --> 00:14:12.524 And I actually got sober in 2011 and was sober for three years and then relapsed. 00:14:12.524 --> 00:14:13.965 That's what my second book is about. 00:14:13.965 --> 00:14:14.054 Mm-hmm. 00:14:14.054 --> 00:14:15.225 And then I sober. 00:14:15.225 --> 00:14:18.945 Sober from 2014 on, so it's been some time. 00:14:18.945 --> 00:14:19.424 Right. 00:14:19.455 --> 00:14:23.565 And to have that thought again, it was so, I know I wasn't gonna do it. 00:14:23.565 --> 00:14:27.884 I knew in my head I'm not, I'm not, you know, one day at a time I'm not gonna drink again. 00:14:27.914 --> 00:14:31.634 But all of that addicted, um. 00:14:32.070 --> 00:14:48.870 Tricky, slick sticky behavior and thoughts was coming back and it hit me like a truck and I was really, I was really floundering for a while, and because of that, I started participating in what I, what is called process addictions, which are. 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:57.269 Addictions that are a process as opposed to being addicted to a physical, um, thing like alcohol or drugs. 00:14:57.299 --> 00:15:01.080 I started participating in like scrolling endlessly, right? 00:15:01.470 --> 00:15:03.179 Um, eating endlessly. 00:15:03.179 --> 00:15:04.649 That's a process, you know? 00:15:04.889 --> 00:15:05.429 Um, right. 00:15:05.429 --> 00:15:05.605 The gambling. 00:15:05.605 --> 00:15:05.845 Okay. 00:15:06.674 --> 00:15:06.965 Yeah. 00:15:06.980 --> 00:15:09.615 All of that and it, it just

went off the charts. 00:15:09.615 --> 00:15:09.914 Yeah. 00:15:10.394 --> 00:15:10.695 Okay. 00:15:10.695 --> 00:15:11.384 That makes sense. 00:15:11.654 --> 00:15:13.304 I hadn't heard that term before. 00:15:13.365 --> 00:15:14.894 The process addiction. 00:15:15.105 --> 00:15:16.455 That makes a lot of sense. 00:15:16.754 --> 00:15:20.320 And is that where the, the sugar addiction in your Yes. 00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:22.245 In your subtitle came into play? 00:15:22.245 --> 00:15:22.335 Yes. 00:15:23.024 --> 00:15:28.514 I actually go through a lot of processes, addictions in my book, like risk taking, gambling. 00:15:28.514 --> 00:15:32.445 I didn't gamble, but I gambled with other things and, and talked about that as well. 00:15:32.445 --> 00:15:34.274 But the main one for me was food. 00:15:34.634 --> 00:15:42.855 And I, I sort of went off the charts in terms of eating sugar addiction, gained a lot of weight, did all that, um. 00:15:43.424 --> 00:15:53.865 And I found myself, like one of the, one of the stories I tell, which is funny to me now, but was really humiliating at the time, was that I was binging on food. 00:15:53.955 --> 00:15:56.715 Um, I wasn't binging and purging, but I was just binging out. 00:15:56.715 --> 00:16:00.434 And then like the next day I would exercise like crazy and do all of that. 00:16:00.825 --> 00:16:01.365 Um. 00:16:01.794 --> 00:16:21.745 And kind of, that was another process addiction where I was like madly exercising to try to deal with the fact that I was binging at night and I had been eating a bunch of Reese's peanut butter cups and there were wrappers literally that I shoved under my mattress, which'cause I didn't want anybody to know and it was embarrassing and I felt like an idiot. 00:16:22.075 --> 00:16:30.684 And then my sweet son found them and just'cause he was, I had asked him to vacuum or something and he came down the hall and he was looking at me with this. 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:37.860 Quizzical expression and had in his hand a bunch of rappers, and it's kind of silly. 00:16:37.889 --> 00:16:41.639 And he just looked at me and he goes, you owe me a bunch of Reese's. 00:16:42.149 --> 00:16:44.519 I was like, I, yeah. 00:16:44.789 --> 00:16:48.509 Um, I said to him out loud, which I was proud of. 00:16:48.509 --> 00:16:51.480 I said, mom's got kind of a problem with sugar right now. 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.590 And that was the first time I said it out loud to someone. 00:16:56.129 --> 00:17:06.900 Granted, I was saying it to my young son, which I mean, I don't know how much of that he really processed, but, um, to say it out loud in that moment was embarrassing. 00:17:07.170 --> 00:17:13.740 But also I had a moment where I, I thought to myself, you just said that out loud, like you just finally. 00:17:14.325 --> 00:17:26.924 Came forth, and that's what helped me with my initial sobriety was that I finally, after all of this horrific addicted alcoholic drinking, I finally had my lowest point. 00:17:26.924 --> 00:17:32.414 And in my moment of surrender, I called my husband and said, I can't, I can't quit. 00:17:32.714 --> 00:17:34.934 And said the words out loud, you know what I mean? 00:17:34.994 --> 00:17:35.924 Finally got it out. 00:17:36.884 --> 00:17:39.075 Something kind of flipped in that moment. 00:17:39.075 --> 00:17:47.115 A switch was flipped and I said, I've gotta start squaring up with sugar and they, I need to like understand what's happening to me right now. 00:17:47.505 --> 00:17:49.515 And that's when I started thinking about it all. 00:17:49.964 --> 00:17:50.234 Okay. 00:17:50.325 --> 00:17:53.055 What you said, like, not I've gotta stop eating. 00:17:53.115 --> 00:17:55.484 I have to understand what's happening to me. 00:17:55.484 --> 00:17:55.785 Right. 00:17:56.035 --> 00:18:00.474 That is such a different paradigm than, than a shame paradigm. 00:18:00.474 --> 00:18:00.535 Yeah. 00:18:00.744 --> 00:18:02.305 Like, oh, I'm, I'm gaining weight. 00:18:02.305 --> 00:18:03.174 This isn't healthy. 00:18:03.174 --> 00:18:04.404 I'm, I have to stop this. 00:18:04.404 --> 00:18:04.704 It's gonna be 00:18:04.704 --> 00:18:06.295 all carrots from here on. 00:18:06.295 --> 00:18:06.384 You 00:18:06.384 --> 00:18:10.644 know, like, yeah, no, I need to figure out, I need to understand myself and 00:18:10.884 --> 00:18:11.095 yeah. 00:18:11.154 --> 00:18:13.375 I think at midlife that is. 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:15.839 I think we don't do that often enough. 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:18.809 I think we're critical of our own behaviors and habits. 00:18:18.809 --> 00:18:25.380 I think we think about where we should be, what we need to be doing, what's on our list, what we've failed at, 00:18:25.859 --> 00:18:28.799 what's on, what's on the list, and let's get a list going. 00:18:28.890 --> 00:18:29.515 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 00:18:29.775 --> 00:18:30.154 But not. 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.049 But not, I want to figure out what's happening inside me. 00:18:34.349 --> 00:18:35.099 Exactly. 00:18:35.190 --> 00:18:43.230 You must have done so much work to get to that point where that was the, that was what you needed to solve was I need to understand myself and my system. 00:18:43.259 --> 00:18:43.319 Yeah. 00:18:43.950 --> 00:18:45.960 And it took me a long time even after that. 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:51.299 'cause I am a real, like, as I talked about my perfectionist qualities, um. 00:18:51.414 --> 00:18:54.744 Prior to this, there had been lots of times where I'm like, that's it. 00:18:54.775 --> 00:18:56.694 I'm gonna get rid of all the chocolate and the sugar. 00:18:56.694 --> 00:19:01.615 And I would throw it all out and I'll be like, it's going to be carrots and like kale soup for a whole week. 00:19:01.615 --> 00:19:05.335 And I would do those over the top, which is exactly what I did with the alcohol. 00:19:05.335 --> 00:19:06.595 Like, I did the same things. 00:19:06.595 --> 00:19:09.025 I'd throw out the alcohol and I'd be like,

I'm not gonna drink. 00:19:09.055 --> 00:19:13.855 And then of course I would fall apart and, and, you know, end up bing out again. 00:19:13.914 --> 00:19:19.734 And the, when I finally kind of decided that it, it wasn't like I had this huge. 00:19:20.019 --> 00:19:22.359 Moment where I'm like, okay, like this is it. 00:19:22.509 --> 00:19:24.519 It just kind of came to me naturally. 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:32.259 I think my body was exhausted and had gone through so many ups and downs of trying to stop and then, you know, benching out again. 00:19:32.259 --> 00:19:42.369 And then the shame and the secrecy where my body and I just sort of decided to hang out with each other and I was, I told myself. 00:19:42.765 --> 00:19:44.714 If you're gonna binge out, that's fine. 00:19:44.835 --> 00:19:51.494 Let's just do it and let's let people know and let's explain what's going on and just do it. 00:19:51.555 --> 00:19:53.474 And if you, if you have to, fine. 00:19:53.474 --> 00:19:58.154 And we're gonna try to see what, you know, what's going on with your head. 00:19:58.154 --> 00:20:03.920 And I started researching and I started writing about it and, um, kind of went on a journey in that. 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:11.450 That took me a long time because menopausal stuff is not explained very well in the scientific community. 00:20:11.450 --> 00:20:21.500 And a lot of the information that's out there that I was trying to find, I mean, there are books and I, and I'm really grateful for all of them and I have some great ones, but it took a while, like. 00:20:21.630 --> 00:20:24.869 And even like trying to talk to my doctor was just a joke. 00:20:24.930 --> 00:20:25.855 I hate to say it, but 00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:29.579 this is no, this is, this has come up time and time again on this podcast. 00:20:29.579 --> 00:20:29.640 Yeah. 00:20:29.670 --> 00:20:33.329 That, that we are the ones, we are doing the research. 00:20:33.390 --> 00:20:33.509 Yeah. 00:20:33.869 --> 00:20:34.109 It's on us. 00:20:34.109 --> 00:20:35.940 We're, we're asking for the scripts. 00:20:35.970 --> 00:20:40.769 We are like, we're finding other people who can give us a script of say this to your doctor. 00:20:41.009 --> 00:20:44.940 We're we are passing the word around between our friends. 00:20:45.089 --> 00:20:46.799 No one has prepared us for this. 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:48.089 No one's talked about it. 00:20:48.424 --> 00:20:54.275 Our doctors aren't bringing it up to us in our thirties and in our forties and saying, okay, be prepared for this. 00:20:54.275 --> 00:20:58.924 And one of my last guests, and I said, yeah, like imagine if this was menopause. 00:20:59.224 --> 00:20:59.585 Yes. 00:20:59.914 --> 00:21:01.265 And, and, and how? 00:21:01.295 --> 00:21:05.015 Like, oh my God, you better believe we'd all be prepared for menopause. 00:21:05.015 --> 00:21:05.789 There would be 00:21:05.789 --> 00:21:06.109 a booklet. 00:21:07.140 --> 00:21:09.244 There'd be a flyer or something. 00:21:09.575 --> 00:21:11.315 There be some preparation. 00:21:11.375 --> 00:21:11.884 Yeah. 00:21:11.990 --> 00:21:13.789 Now we have to know the secret knock. 00:21:13.819 --> 00:21:19.549 We have to know, we have to be ready to make understanding our bodies and our brains at this stage of life. 00:21:19.579 --> 00:21:21.140 It has to be our full-time job. 00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:25.579 Forget the fact that we also have jobs and families and homes. 00:21:25.730 --> 00:21:27.799 Now you're also your own researcher, 00:21:27.849 --> 00:21:35.049 yeah, it's very frustrating and it's just darn right rude because like I, you get so much layered on you already as a woman. 00:21:35.049 --> 00:21:40.269 And then I remember just kind of yelling at my husband, like, I have enough to do. 00:21:40.299 --> 00:21:42.549 I don't have time to try to figure this out. 00:21:42.549 --> 00:21:44.349 Like he's, because he was the ones like. 00:21:44.525 --> 00:21:45.694 You need to figure this out. 00:21:45.694 --> 00:21:46.744 And I'm like, why? 00:21:46.924 --> 00:21:48.394 It's a medical thing, right? 00:21:48.394 --> 00:21:51.724 Like why can't, I was never told about menopause. 00:21:51.724 --> 00:21:53.825 I was never, it was never explained to me. 00:21:53.825 --> 00:21:55.025 I was never warned. 00:21:55.025 --> 00:21:58.744 I was never given, you know, and I had to look all that up myself. 00:21:58.744 --> 00:22:00.005 I had to do all the reading. 00:22:00.005 --> 00:22:02.900 And then of course there's like incorrect information out there, right? 00:22:02.900 --> 00:22:08.285 And so it was very frustrating'cause I felt like I have enough to do in my damn life. 00:22:08.285 --> 00:22:11.285 I don't need another thing to do on top of everything else. 00:22:12.089 --> 00:22:12.960 Exactly it. 00:22:12.990 --> 00:22:17.789 And then I'll, I'll, you know, take to my personal doctor chat, GPT and be like, 00:22:17.910 --> 00:22:18.150 yes, 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:20.339 you know, blah, blah, blah, blah is happening. 00:22:20.339 --> 00:22:21.089 What could that be? 00:22:21.089 --> 00:22:23.130 And it's sort of like, um. 00:22:23.740 --> 00:22:28.359 Like, well, you might need more estrogen or you might have too much estrogen. 00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:29.950 I'm like, well, that's just great. 00:22:30.609 --> 00:22:31.029 Terrific. 00:22:31.029 --> 00:22:31.420 Not helpful. 00:22:31.420 --> 00:22:31.690 Thank you. 00:22:31.690 --> 00:22:33.250 So, no, I mean, and that's the thing. 00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:39.069 It's like there aren't easy answers and we aren't able to monitor our hormones. 00:22:39.099 --> 00:22:41.075 24 7 there, it's, there's not like a. 00:22:41.450 --> 00:22:43.549 I mean, and everyone's different. 00:22:43.549 --> 00:22:57.380 Everyone has different chemistry and I mean, the fact is there just has not been research and money and science going into understanding what happens to women at this stage of our life because frankly, it's not important

societally. 00:22:58.089 --> 00:23:01.059 Um, not, yeah, I do think Gen X women are changing that. 00:23:01.059 --> 00:23:02.619 I think we are demanding. 00:23:02.950 --> 00:23:08.890 I mean, and when you look around, it's like there are a lot of podcasters and like there are doctors on Instagram. 00:23:08.890 --> 00:23:09.835 There are like, mm-hmm. 00:23:10.809 --> 00:23:12.940 Now it's a little easier to find. 00:23:12.940 --> 00:23:17.079 It's like, oh, follow these three people and subscribe to their newsletters. 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:17.410 Right. 00:23:17.414 --> 00:23:17.755 Uhhuh, 00:23:18.015 --> 00:23:18.595 you get three. 00:23:18.625 --> 00:23:18.914 Yeah. 00:23:18.914 --> 00:23:19.275 Mm-hmm. 00:23:19.375 --> 00:23:21.309 And, and, and those are great. 00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:26.470 And I'm really grateful that it's changing, but I have to admit, like it was the same. 00:23:26.849 --> 00:23:31.019 I keep coming up with like the similarities between when I got sober and when this happened. 00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:31.079 Yeah. 00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:32.880 Because it was the same thing. 00:23:33.029 --> 00:23:44.250 I would go to my doctors and I finally fessed up and said, look, I'm sober now, um, and I'm, and this, and this is happening, or I'm feeling this or should I be taking this medication? 00:23:44.250 --> 00:23:48.359 And they treated me, first of all with, it was. 00:23:48.845 --> 00:23:51.785 Kind of shaming that, the, the way they treated me. 00:23:51.785 --> 00:23:59.585 And it was also really clear that the doctor that I had at least was not, did not understand sobriety or recovery at all. 00:23:59.585 --> 00:24:01.625 And so just didn't really have anything to tell me. 00:24:01.894 --> 00:24:05.674 Um, and I felt sort of lost, like, why did I even tell him? 00:24:06.025 --> 00:24:06.805 That I was sober. 00:24:06.805 --> 00:24:11.454 It didn't really change anything in terms of what's going on with me, but I feel like I'm going crazy. 00:24:11.815 --> 00:24:14.964 Um, and then the same thing happened when I, when I spent a puzzle. 00:24:14.964 --> 00:24:16.164 I'm like, what's going on with this? 00:24:16.164 --> 00:24:20.755 Of course, I also shot myself in the foot because, because of my symptoms. 00:24:20.825 --> 00:24:28.174 Being during COVID and avoiding my doctor for like a year, I came in there finally and was like, look, I'm having these crazy hot sweats. 00:24:28.174 --> 00:24:30.005 I'm waking up gasping for air. 00:24:30.005 --> 00:24:36.724 My main thing was like the breathing, my throat would close up and I couldn't breathe, um, which is a symptom of menopause. 00:24:36.724 --> 00:24:49.565 I found out and I thought I was like having, I, I didn't know what was going on and they had absolutely no help for me in terms of, um, what to do or they wanted to give me anti-anxiety medication, which. 00:24:50.089 --> 00:24:56.269 I understand like it's an anxiety thing, but the word menopause was never even mentioned until about my first appointment. 00:24:57.019 --> 00:24:59.240 So you felt like you couldn't breathe? 00:24:59.240 --> 00:24:59.329 Yes. 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:02.000 And And that's something that actually happens in menopause. 00:25:02.089 --> 00:25:03.170 I didn't know that. 00:25:03.349 --> 00:25:03.529 Yeah. 00:25:03.529 --> 00:25:04.549 It's another symptom. 00:25:04.579 --> 00:25:13.789 It, it's one of those that's like in terms of the most prevalent symptoms you get the hot sweats, you get like everyone kind of jokes about menopause and talks about hot sweats. 00:25:13.789 --> 00:25:14.539 That's the thing. 00:25:14.539 --> 00:25:15.410 It's the trigger word. 00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:31.089 But for me, the middle of the night breathing issue where I would be gasping for air and I felt like I was choking and dying, it's, it's, um, it was a closing of my throat and it was happening in terms because of anxiety and also hormonal shifts in the middle of the night. 00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:34.720 Um, and I was, I had to. 00:25:34.845 --> 00:25:40.605 Find out that myself, I had to do some research on my own, um, and figured it out. 00:25:40.605 --> 00:25:46.605 There isn't really anything I could do for it except take anxiety medication, um, which didn't really work for me. 00:25:46.634 --> 00:26:01.250 But the main thing that I found in terms of at least having the conversation is that the doctors kind of treated me like I was either making it up or I, um, was making too big of a deal out of it and that, oh my god. 00:26:01.789 --> 00:26:03.859 Yeah, it's the same with my sobriety. 00:26:03.859 --> 00:26:04.579 It was not, 00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:06.559 well, aren't you precious about your breathing? 00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:07.190 Yeah, I know. 00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:08.960 Geez. 00:26:08.990 --> 00:26:10.190 You feel like you're dying. 00:26:10.190 --> 00:26:24.065 Well, okay, so and then that was the other part that I had a hard time with in terms of addicted mindset and being, um, a woman who's, you know, in recovery and is sober, they wanted to give me all these heavy, heavy, um, a lot of. 00:26:24.775 --> 00:26:31.045 S medications I don't really wanna touch because they're things that I could kind of get addicted to in terms of how they would make me feel. 00:26:31.045 --> 00:26:35.384 I was trying to explain that and um, we just were not communicating well. 00:26:35.384 --> 00:26:35.444 Yeah. 00:26:35.775 --> 00:26:35.865 Mm-hmm. 00:26:36.105 --> 00:26:42.075 Um, I have a better doctor now and that's kind of helped the conversation, but I still, every time I go in. 00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:45.009 I can see her trying and I get it. 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:51.490 Doctors are overwhelmed and overloaded and I don't wanna really just throw her under the bus, but there would be the same conversation. 00:26:51.490 --> 00:26:52.480 She'd be looking through the chart. 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:54.759 She's like, okay, so I see that. 00:26:55.089

--> 00:26:57.430 You don't want this medication for this. 00:26:57.490 --> 00:27:01.960 Um, and I'm like, yes, because I'm sober to have the same conversation again. 00:27:02.289 --> 00:27:08.140 Um, and it just felt a little bit diminishing in terms of what I was dealing with. 00:27:08.140 --> 00:27:08.559 So, 00:27:08.859 --> 00:27:08.950 mm-hmm. 00:27:09.309 --> 00:27:10.599 Fun times, right? 00:27:10.630 --> 00:27:13.809 Trying to get medical help in terms of this hormonal stuff. 00:27:13.809 --> 00:27:14.170 And 00:27:14.890 --> 00:27:17.769 so what, so what happened after that? 00:27:17.769 --> 00:27:20.769 And did you find, have you found help? 00:27:20.769 --> 00:27:22.779 Have you found relief and support? 00:27:23.125 --> 00:27:26.444 Well, one of the main things I found a therapist. 00:27:26.474 --> 00:27:27.194 Okay. 00:27:27.285 --> 00:27:28.664 And she was amazing. 00:27:28.664 --> 00:27:34.964 In fact, she is a, I can't remember the difference between the psychologist and this and the, she's the one that could administer medication. 00:27:34.964 --> 00:27:35.924 Psychiatrist 00:27:35.924 --> 00:27:36.494 can do med. 00:27:36.494 --> 00:27:36.585 Yes. 00:27:36.585 --> 00:27:36.974 Psychiatrist. 00:27:37.035 --> 00:27:37.545 Thank you. 00:27:38.095 --> 00:27:40.525 She, and I don't know how I happened upon her. 00:27:40.525 --> 00:27:49.464 It was kind of like a miraculous like event where I found, and I, I write about her in the book and I say Everyone should have a Kayla Wirick. 00:27:49.464 --> 00:27:51.144 Like, I love my doctor. 00:27:51.414 --> 00:27:54.954 Um, because she sat me down and I started explaining all of this. 00:27:55.144 --> 00:28:05.494 Stuff and I thought we were just gonna talk about mental stuff, but then she goes, you know, there's like a really great, I, I was on anti-depressants, which I have been on since I've been in my twenties. 00:28:05.825 --> 00:28:07.230 And she's like, there's a great, um. 00:28:08.099 --> 00:28:11.009 And a depressant that's really helpful for menopausal women. 00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:14.519 And then there's also a great sleep, blah, blah, blah. 00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:15.720 That's great for menopausal. 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:29.549 It's like she knew the information and it was really a godsend that I found her because she was able to sit me down and say, okay, first of all, all this stuff is okay and normal, and what you're going through is not crazy and you're not making it up. 00:28:29.549 --> 00:28:34.289 So she validated me and then she was able to find, um, medications that are. 00:28:34.316 --> 00:28:38.516 Helpful for a woman who's going through that hormone shift, and that really helped. 00:28:38.516 --> 00:28:44.125 And first of, in terms of my sleep, in terms of my mental state and the anxiety went away. 00:28:44.425 --> 00:28:52.736 Um, and honestly, I kind of think just because I had someone who listened to me and knew what it was that I was going through that helped 00:28:52.945 --> 00:28:53.125 yes. 00:28:53.846 --> 00:29:02.965 I was so strung out on feeling alone and isolated, and then having my Kayla as I call her come along, um, was super helpful. 00:29:03.086 --> 00:29:03.536 So yeah. 00:29:03.536 --> 00:29:07.915 And then on the flip side, I started writing like crazy. 00:29:07.915 --> 00:29:12.836 And one of my things that I pushed for or talk about a lot is that we need an outlet. 00:29:13.615 --> 00:29:15.236 Um, we need to be creative. 00:29:15.236 --> 00:29:17.875 Like you have your podcasts, that's your outlet, right? 00:29:17.905 --> 00:29:23.365 That's your, that's your moment where you're like creating this to help others, but it's also helping you, I'm assuming. 00:29:23.726 --> 00:29:24.925 Yeah, that's what I had. 00:29:24.925 --> 00:29:28.226 And, and the writing, we need something. 00:29:28.226 --> 00:29:34.796 In January, I did a 12 week workshop with, for midlife women based on the Artist Way by Julia Cameron. 00:29:34.796 --> 00:29:35.006 See? 00:29:35.006 --> 00:29:35.395 That's 00:29:35.395 --> 00:29:36.236 exactly, 00:29:36.445 --> 00:29:36.746 yep. 00:29:36.746 --> 00:29:38.155 And it's be, it was like. 00:29:38.566 --> 00:29:41.476 It's, it's not just for real artists. 00:29:41.476 --> 00:29:42.405 You don't have to be a, 00:29:42.465 --> 00:29:42.615 I 00:29:42.615 --> 00:29:42.915 know. 00:29:42.915 --> 00:29:43.246 A painter. 00:29:43.455 --> 00:29:43.665 Yes. 00:29:43.740 --> 00:29:44.625 Or a writer. 00:29:44.746 --> 00:29:45.766 Or a sculptor. 00:29:45.766 --> 00:29:47.026 Or a musician, exactly. 00:29:47.056 --> 00:29:51.736 But it's basically bringing you back into alignment with your own creative flow. 00:29:52.365 --> 00:29:53.355 We're all creative. 00:29:53.355 --> 00:29:54.256 We are all creative. 00:29:54.260 --> 00:29:54.441 All creative. 00:29:54.766 --> 00:29:55.036 Yes. 00:29:55.066 --> 00:29:55.306 Yeah. 00:29:55.385 --> 00:30:03.036 And I think that women, especially, we get to this age and things are shifting in terms of our bodies and our responsibilities and our brains. 00:30:03.246 --> 00:30:12.486 And if we don't have something that brings us a sense of creativity or play or connection with ourselves, we are gonna become disconnected. 00:30:12.576 --> 00:30:12.756 You 00:30:12.756 --> 00:30:12.935 know? 00:30:12.935 --> 00:30:13.776 Oh my gosh. 00:30:13.776 --> 00:30:14.316 You are preach. 00:30:14.316 --> 00:30:14.405 It's 00:30:14.405 --> 00:30:14.855 essential. 00:30:14.855 --> 00:30:15.935 The word. 00:30:15.941 --> 00:30:16.230 Mm-hmm. 00:30:16.391 --> 00:30:19.326 I, I write about that and I talk about it in, in the book. 00:30:19.326 --> 00:30:21.546 And I say, if we're not in line with something like. 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:32.711 What happened for me during this period was I started to experience, for the first time in my life, I started to experience boredom because I wasn't as interested in the things that I used to love. 00:30:32.711 -->

00:30:37.330 And it was like my shifting hormones were taking joy away from me and kind of sucking the joy. 00:30:37.330 --> 00:30:42.371 I'm like, I used to love to read what's going on, like I'm not Yes, getting the same enjoyment out of it. 00:30:42.671 --> 00:30:48.760 Um, so for me, writing has always been the thing and I started writing again and that really like. 00:30:48.816 --> 00:30:58.596 It was sort of like, um, just allowed me to get this weird analogy, but it felt like my body just got excited and, and, and alive again. 00:30:58.596 --> 00:30:59.736 I got juicy again. 00:30:59.736 --> 00:31:02.796 I got interested in things again, and it really helped. 00:31:02.796 --> 00:31:15.066 And I, I say it like whenever I bring up creativity, I was talking to my dad who's like an ex farmer and I mean, he's just a business guy and he was like, well, I'm not creative, like, I don't know what you're talking about. 00:31:15.066 --> 00:31:17.586 And I said, dad, you used to take the lawnmower. 00:31:17.586 --> 00:31:18.546 They have a lawnmower. 00:31:18.631 --> 00:31:32.221 From like 1995 in their garage and he would go out there and tinker with it and fix it miraculously, like bring that thing back to life and all of those little things that you had judged and fixed, like that's creativity right there, right? 00:31:32.221 --> 00:31:34.201 Like it's amazing what. 00:31:34.855 --> 00:31:38.365 We write ourselves off if we're not out there sculpting something. 00:31:38.365 --> 00:31:38.576 Right? 00:31:38.875 --> 00:31:40.885 Cooking can be creative, right? 00:31:40.885 --> 00:31:40.945 Yeah. 00:31:41.336 --> 00:31:44.816 Like creating a playlist for yourself can be creative, 00:31:45.476 --> 00:31:50.875 you know, or, or the meals that you make or, you know, even just going on a walk and connecting with nature. 00:31:50.875 --> 00:31:56.336 Like all of that is stuff that really does help keep our soul aligned with our body. 00:31:56.770 --> 00:31:59.351 The physical with the absolutely spiritual and the mental. 00:31:59.351 --> 00:32:00.790 I wanna take your thing. 00:32:01.270 --> 00:32:02.050 Oh my gosh, you should. 00:32:02.050 --> 00:32:03.580 It was, it was, yeah. 00:32:03.580 --> 00:32:11.651 It starts January 12th and we, when it's 12 weeks and it was like, I did the artist's way for the first time, like a year ago. 00:32:12.010 --> 00:32:12.461 Um. 00:32:12.540 --> 00:32:18.151 But doing it in a group and with midlife women, so it's like the lens is just different. 00:32:18.691 --> 00:32:19.316 Oh, I love that. 00:32:19.316 --> 00:32:20.280 And I, it's my favorite. 00:32:20.280 --> 00:32:28.351 I've been doing writing workshops for like over a decade, and this is my favorite one I've ever taught because it wasn't about how to be a better writer. 00:32:28.560 --> 00:32:29.881 It wasn't craft based. 00:32:29.881 --> 00:32:31.996 It was, it's like, how do you unlock yourself? 00:32:32.461 --> 00:32:34.080 How do you come back to yourself? 00:32:34.290 --> 00:32:34.530 Right? 00:32:34.530 --> 00:32:34.915 Like, how do you, 00:32:35.101 --> 00:32:35.461 how do you align yourself? 00:32:35.490 --> 00:32:36.240 I always talk about 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:36.836 calibrate Yes. 00:32:36.836 --> 00:32:36.996 Alignment. 00:32:37.020 --> 00:32:37.111 Yes. 00:32:37.141 --> 00:32:37.411 How do we 00:32:37.411 --> 00:32:38.101 calibrate? 00:32:38.925 --> 00:32:39.145 Yes. 00:32:39.455 --> 00:32:40.066 Goosebump. 00:32:40.391 --> 00:32:41.050 Excited. 00:32:41.080 --> 00:32:46.840 No, it, it's, it was a juicy one and it was like, I feel like this is what we need at midlife is reminders. 00:32:46.990 --> 00:32:50.471 And like you said, something like almost coming back online in you. 00:32:50.471 --> 00:32:53.590 It's like things that had been dormant, started firing again. 00:32:54.490 --> 00:32:54.550 Oh, 00:32:54.550 --> 00:32:54.691 love my gosh. 00:32:54.691 --> 00:32:54.836 Love that. 00:32:54.971 --> 00:32:57.431 And maybe that's the way to keep us healthy. 00:32:58.080 --> 00:33:07.500 In a variety of context, whether we're talking about sobriety, whether we're talking about a process addiction, whether sugar or scrolling, which so many people 00:33:07.830 --> 00:33:08.310 Oh yeah. 00:33:08.461 --> 00:33:08.730 Have 00:33:09.631 --> 00:33:15.750 talk about, I still, and I still do it, I, I, I want to elaborate or, or let people know here that I'm not like this fixed person. 00:33:15.750 --> 00:33:16.080 Like 00:33:16.171 --> 00:33:16.471 right 00:33:16.530 --> 00:33:18.810 when I wrote the book, I was going through it. 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:19.361 Right. 00:33:19.361 --> 00:33:19.570 Yeah. 00:33:19.570 --> 00:33:24.040 And I still am, and there wasn't like some big huge, like I'm all fixed. 00:33:24.040 --> 00:33:25.151 I don't scroll anymore. 00:33:25.151 --> 00:33:26.441 I just scrolled this morning. 00:33:26.441 --> 00:33:31.540 Like I, I do it right, but it's not as bad and it's not as tied to shame. 00:33:31.540 --> 00:33:40.631 And there's so much more out there than these process addictions where we end up doing this stuff that we know we shouldn't, um, that I found. 00:33:40.705 --> 00:33:43.526 So that, I mean, it's been so helpful, but 00:33:43.526 --> 00:33:48.175 Well, but you got to the root of what was you, you got to the root of it rather than just like 00:33:48.685 --> 00:33:48.955 Yeah. 00:33:48.986 --> 00:33:56.695 Judging a behavior you were doing and, and I think we are all, we are all going to do the wrong thing for our bodies and our lives and our schedules. 00:33:56.695 --> 00:34:00.145 We are going to consciously overbook ourselves. 00:34:00.171 --> 00:34:00.391 Yes. 00:34:00.490 --> 00:34:03.056 And we're going to avoid going through the closet. 00:34:03.326 --> 00:34:08.876 And we're going to eat a shit load of cookies one night, and we're gonna scroll and we're gonna dissociate. 00:34:09.101 --> 00:34:14.471 Like we cannot live in perfect healthful alignment

every moment of the day. 00:34:14.650 --> 00:34:16.601 But it's like, but how's your foundation? 00:34:16.601 --> 00:34:18.460 And I think that's the question, right? 00:34:18.610 --> 00:34:19.690 How's your foundation? 00:34:19.690 --> 00:34:19.960 Exactly. 00:34:19.990 --> 00:34:21.710 What is it built on exactly? 00:34:21.710 --> 00:34:24.460 Is it built on understanding yourself and and self love? 00:34:24.820 --> 00:34:26.920 Is it built on being in alignment? 00:34:27.221 --> 00:34:27.311 Mm-hmm. 00:34:27.340 --> 00:34:27.760 Um. 00:34:28.181 --> 00:34:28.780 You know, that's 00:34:28.780 --> 00:34:29.141 so true. 00:34:29.476 --> 00:34:33.101 And that's where, for me, that's where the addictive behaviors came from. 00:34:33.101 --> 00:34:38.891 Because I wasn't looking at myself, I wasn't allowing myself to really feel feelings. 00:34:38.891 --> 00:34:42.521 I wasn't allowing myself to really work on the foundation of Dana. 00:34:42.550 --> 00:34:48.820 Um, there was a lot of stuff from like my, just my childhood and my young adulthood that I didn't really wanna deal with. 00:34:49.070 --> 00:34:50.990 I didn't like to be, yeah, uncomfortable. 00:34:50.990 --> 00:34:53.210 I didn't like to deal with discomfort and pain. 00:34:53.661 --> 00:34:58.701 Um, and then because of that, and, and because I started out my life with this. 00:34:59.275 --> 00:35:06.206 Hardcore alcoholism, the addicted patterns kept happening with, with the food and the processes and all of that. 00:35:06.536 --> 00:35:13.525 But my theory, and this kind of sound kind of might kind of sound harsh, but it's not meant to be, is that we're all addicted to something. 00:35:13.525 --> 00:35:15.775 We all have addicted patterns in our lives. 00:35:16.166 --> 00:35:24.956 Um, and so when I finally got to a point where I could really accept that and look at data for who she is and try to work with her and. 00:35:25.561 --> 00:35:26.340 Forgive her. 00:35:26.371 --> 00:35:29.940 Like I just had to do a lot of grace with Dana. 00:35:30.271 --> 00:35:30.360 Mm-hmm. 00:35:31.081 --> 00:35:33.271 Um, no more black and white thinking. 00:35:33.271 --> 00:35:38.010 No more in terms of good, bad, like you've, it just took a lot of work. 00:35:38.610 --> 00:35:46.050 Um, but it really, really, it really helped and it resulted and I always feel like this is one of those moments of kismet where. 00:35:46.411 --> 00:35:49.081 Um, because of the work and because of the hard work. 00:35:49.110 --> 00:35:52.380 I have this book now and I wish I could hold it in my hands. 00:35:52.380 --> 00:35:54.900 I still haven't gotten the author's copies and I'm waiting. 00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:56.101 I'm so anxious. 00:35:56.190 --> 00:36:01.891 But it's kind of like that baby that came out of all of that and Oh man, it's, it's such a blessing. 00:36:02.041 --> 00:36:02.400 Yeah. 00:36:02.550 --> 00:36:02.791 Yeah. 00:36:03.121 --> 00:36:03.840 Absolutely. 00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:11.460 No, I, I, I think that it is hard work, but I don't think there's any work that's more worthwhile than that. 00:36:11.490 --> 00:36:12.001 Like I. 00:36:12.610 --> 00:36:21.760 I feel like everyone should be in therapy, but I al but I really feel like perimenopausal and menopausal women like this is, it's not just because of our need. 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:26.351 And this is something that I realized when I was doing my artist's way group with midlife women. 00:36:26.351 --> 00:36:38.021 I was like, oh, we'll use this lens of midlife womanhood because we have all the, the, the deck is stacked against a sandwich generation and hormones and we're all, you know, frazzled and overwhelmed and caregiving. 00:36:38.291 --> 00:36:38.621 Yeah. 00:36:38.621 --> 00:36:41.380 But what I didn't realize is like, but also. 00:36:41.635 --> 00:36:48.206 We are ready to step into this new level of, of wisdom and power. 00:36:48.206 --> 00:36:48.266 Yeah. 00:36:48.476 --> 00:37:02.335 Like we are, we're, this is a time, like it's worthy of our exploration to do that work, whether it's therapy or you know, or getting back in touch with our own creativity or working with a coach or like, this is a great time to do it. 00:37:02.516 --> 00:37:07.766 Not just because life is hard, but because we are all becoming more amazing at this stage of life. 00:37:07.766 --> 00:37:07.856 Yes. 00:37:08.275 --> 00:37:08.510 You know? 00:37:08.510 --> 00:37:08.670 Yes. 00:37:09.110 --> 00:37:10.340 There's all this potential. 00:37:10.340 --> 00:37:20.721 Like at one point when I was, when it was a dark time for me and I was really suffering and feeling like I was stuck, um, I felt like I was on a precipice, like a clip. 00:37:20.721 --> 00:37:22.760 I'm like, I am, I'm wiser. 00:37:23.001 --> 00:37:24.621 I'm older, I'm wiser. 00:37:24.621 --> 00:37:26.090 I have all this potential. 00:37:26.090 --> 00:37:31.371 And I didn't really, like, my brain didn't really come up with those words, but I felt like I was on a cliff. 00:37:31.581 --> 00:37:32.030 Okay. 00:37:32.210 --> 00:37:32.420 Yeah. 00:37:32.420 --> 00:37:34.911 And I was like, I need to learn like how to get. 00:37:36.206 --> 00:37:39.896 Across the clip, somehow there's gotta be some sort of impetus or push. 00:37:40.255 --> 00:37:42.445 Um, and I don't wanna be stuck anymore. 00:37:42.445 --> 00:37:49.885 I don't wanna be stuck in this zone of overeating, feeling sorry for myself dealing with all these hormones and feeling depressed because of it. 00:37:50.126 --> 00:37:51.416 And also invisible. 00:37:51.416 --> 00:37:54.291 It was really like, that's the, the TEDx tox. 00:37:54.291 --> 00:38:00.005 I, I ended up calling or talking about, there's a thing, a real thing called Invisible women's syndrome. 00:38:00.005 --> 00:38:05.916 And it, it, it occurs between 55 and 75 for women where they literally feel invisible. 00:38:06.275 --> 00:38:10.476 Um, and all of that was happening, but I was like, but I still have so much good to

me. 00:38:10.476 --> 00:38:12.666 I have so much that I can do. 00:38:12.666 --> 00:38:13.956 I have so much potential. 00:38:13.956 --> 00:38:18.726 But it just felt like it was getting squashed and I had to find a way to. 00:38:19.101 --> 00:38:23.721 Un squash myself, which is really a technical term, but anyhow, um, 00:38:23.811 --> 00:38:24.831 I love that. 00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:26.840 No more squashing. 00:38:26.931 --> 00:38:27.260 Yeah, 00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:28.851 no, that's brilliant. 00:38:29.181 --> 00:38:32.181 Like what a, what an interesting way to frame that. 00:38:32.181 --> 00:38:36.650 Like playing small or just, just, just the stuckness. 00:38:36.681 --> 00:38:42.076 I think that happen and, and I do think that that's why I, I think Gen X women are. 00:38:42.501 --> 00:38:45.351 Are revolutionary in many ways because mm-hmm. 00:38:45.471 --> 00:38:52.581 It's not just about finding the right form of collagen or following the, the Meow Belly diet. 00:38:52.581 --> 00:38:53.360 It, it's, oh yeah. 00:38:53.780 --> 00:38:57.981 It's not about us refusing to age, it's, it's about us. 00:38:58.356 --> 00:39:01.115 Refusing to succumb to the fear of aging. 00:39:01.115 --> 00:39:01.206 Yes. 00:39:01.445 --> 00:39:02.916 Or invisibility. 00:39:02.916 --> 00:39:04.356 Or irrelevance. 00:39:04.356 --> 00:39:04.445 Yes. 00:39:04.476 --> 00:39:06.846 It's like we, we aren't going to do that. 00:39:06.846 --> 00:39:09.275 We are changing the narrative, I believe mm-hmm. 00:39:09.516 --> 00:39:18.760 About what midlife means, and I think we'll continue to do it into our sixties and seventies and eighties and, and, and I think that that's, I think that's new, you know? 00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:19.041 Yeah. 00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:27.210 I have too much to say, you know, I just have too much to say to, to let it all be, um, invisible anymore. 00:39:27.481 --> 00:39:36.811 And I, I just spent the weekend with my parents and I was kind of watching my mom and I remember telling her about the stuff that's happening, the book that's coming out. 00:39:36.811 --> 00:39:38.971 You know, she's always so amazed. 00:39:38.971 --> 00:39:42.235 Spite the stuff that I do, like the TEDx thing took forever. 00:39:42.235 --> 00:39:44.065 They were like, they did not know what that was. 00:39:44.065 --> 00:39:45.806 And they were, they were like, what? 00:39:45.806 --> 00:39:46.856 You're talking to Ted? 00:39:46.856 --> 00:39:47.876 Like what's happening? 00:39:47.931 --> 00:39:48.371 Oh my God, 00:39:49.391 --> 00:39:49.971 that's amazing. 00:39:50.070 --> 00:39:53.126 So my mom always says stuff like, she, this is what she says. 00:39:53.231 --> 00:39:53.570 I'm just. 00:39:54.585 --> 00:39:56.925 And you weren't like nervous and you weren't scared. 00:39:56.925 --> 00:39:57.916 And I was like, yeah mom. 00:39:57.916 --> 00:39:58.786 I was terrified. 00:39:58.786 --> 00:40:00.135 Like, you have to memorize the whole thing. 00:40:00.135 --> 00:40:00.795 It's

a lot. 00:40:01.186 --> 00:40:04.695 Um, and she goes, I just never could do the stuff that you do. 00:40:04.695 --> 00:40:08.056 And she has this look of almost resignation about it. 00:40:08.056 --> 00:40:12.166 And I know it's a different generation and it's different kind of look at things. 00:40:12.465 --> 00:40:20.266 Um, but it, it just felt small and I felt kind of bad for her'cause it, it just felt kind of small and I thought, I don't wanna be that. 00:40:20.326 --> 00:40:22.065 I don't wanna be small and I don't wanna. 00:40:22.311 --> 00:40:23.780 Disregard myself. 00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:24.681 Um, no. 00:40:24.771 --> 00:40:26.570 Anymore, so, yeah. 00:40:26.570 --> 00:40:28.490 And you don't have, and we don't and we don't have to. 00:40:28.851 --> 00:40:29.061 Yeah, 00:40:29.266 --> 00:40:29.755 exactly. 00:40:29.755 --> 00:40:32.481 And I'm, I'm really excited to read your book and 00:40:32.630 --> 00:40:33.050 Oh, great. 00:40:33.170 --> 00:40:33.291 I'm 00:40:33.291 --> 00:40:33.411 glad. 00:40:33.411 --> 00:40:43.280 I think like, rather than being for this very narrow niche, if you, if you've experienced these things you like, it sounds like the lessons that you've learned Yeah. 00:40:43.311 --> 00:40:47.510 And your process is something that we can all apply to our own. 00:40:47.510 --> 00:40:47.521 Yeah. 00:40:48.771 --> 00:40:53.871 Exploration of ourselves and our own journey towards healing ourselves from whatever it is. 00:40:54.201 --> 00:40:54.260 Yeah. 00:40:54.260 --> 00:40:57.320 And you know, when you said that you, everyone has, okay. 00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:00.021 Did you read Liz Gilbert's new book all the Way to the River? 00:41:00.231 --> 00:41:00.920 Yes, 00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:01.161 of 00:41:01.161 --> 00:41:01.610 course. 00:41:01.610 --> 00:41:01.851 Yes. 00:41:01.851 --> 00:41:03.351 He caught a ton of shit. 00:41:03.590 --> 00:41:09.831 For, for saying that everyone uses something or someone, people were just clutching their pearls. 00:41:10.190 --> 00:41:10.521 I know. 00:41:10.521 --> 00:41:10.581 Yeah. 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:12.110 Like, who the hell are you? 00:41:12.170 --> 00:41:12.800 Like, yeah. 00:41:13.010 --> 00:41:13.760 Everybody. 00:41:14.090 --> 00:41:17.061 We all, we, we, we don't know how to cope with life. 00:41:17.061 --> 00:41:17.931 It's crazy. 00:41:18.081 --> 00:41:18.951 It's intense. 00:41:19.101 --> 00:41:20.751 We're not really sure why we're here. 00:41:20.871 --> 00:41:23.675 Like it's, we, we do things to numb out. 00:41:24.175 --> 00:41:28.615 Or to mask or to cope or to like, everybody does it. 00:41:28.615 --> 00:41:34.976 So the fact does fact that people were just horrified by her proclamation I thought was ridiculous because I think you're right. 00:41:35.275 --> 00:41:40.735 I think we all have unhealthy patterns, whether it's in our relationships or within our own bodies. 00:41:40.735 --> 00:41:43.315 And anyone who doesn't believe that they do. 00:41:43.650 --> 00:41:45.570 You know, has maybe achieved enlightenment. 00:41:45.570 --> 00:41:48.451 And I don't think those folks are the ones throwing stones at authors. 00:41:48.451 --> 00:41:49.110 So I don't know. 00:41:49.141 --> 00:41:50.106 No, I could be wrong. 00:41:50.106 --> 00:41:50.126 I don't 00:41:50.126 --> 00:41:50.670 either. 00:41:50.791 --> 00:41:50.971 Um, 00:41:51.030 --> 00:41:52.050 I agree with that. 00:41:52.050 --> 00:41:57.061 And I think we all either have inner or outer stuff that we're, we lean on for release from pain. 00:41:57.090 --> 00:41:58.380 'cause the world is painful. 00:41:58.831 --> 00:41:59.070 Mm-hmm. 00:41:59.311 --> 00:42:09.751 And, um, and yeah, this was my journey and I, I totally is one of those moments in terms of writing that book where again, I'll say I wrote through it like I was writing through the pain. 00:42:09.751 --> 00:42:10.740 So, um. 00:42:11.541 --> 00:42:20.210 But I also love the book in the sense that I feel like it's funny and it shows the humor in things and, and gave moments of true levity because that's how I write. 00:42:20.210 --> 00:42:24.021 I love humor and I love writing funny'cause that's kind of who I am. 00:42:24.291 --> 00:42:24.860 Um, me too. 00:42:25.431 --> 00:42:37.460 And it gave hope, and I know a lot of people have talked about in terms of, um, reading books like this, it's one of those moments where, um, are you gonna read a drunk, a log where everything's awful and it doesn't really offer. 00:42:37.806 --> 00:42:41.795 Um, a way out or a moment of hope, and I feel like humor provides that. 00:42:41.856 --> 00:42:47.405 It gives us that, that moment where we're all kind of on the same page and we're all together in it Anyhow. 00:42:47.405 --> 00:42:47.525 Yeah. 00:42:47.525 --> 00:42:49.536 Now it sounds like I'm just bragging about my book. 00:42:49.536 --> 00:42:49.655 No, 00:42:49.655 --> 00:42:49.865 no. 00:42:49.865 --> 00:42:50.766 But, but you know what? 00:42:50.766 --> 00:42:51.005 Okay. 00:42:51.005 --> 00:42:59.166 Speaking of Liz Gilbert, I have two friends and, and my writing community who went to, um, a, like a, an event of hers in Vancouver. 00:42:59.376 --> 00:42:59.465 Mm-hmm. 00:42:59.706 --> 00:43:03.155 And she came up to one of them and said, do you love your writing? 00:43:03.451 --> 00:43:03.871 Mm-hmm. 00:43:04.251 --> 00:43:05.070 And my friend said, yeah. 00:43:06.141 --> 00:43:06.650 I do. 00:43:06.650 --> 00:43:09.081 And she's like, good, I love mine too. 00:43:09.231 --> 00:43:12.021 Like, why shouldn't you brag about your book? 00:43:12.021 --> 00:43:13.731 Why shouldn't you love your book? 00:43:13.731 --> 00:43:14.840 And, and. 00:43:14.945 --> 00:43:23.615 And, and I totally agree with you on the humor as, as a lifeline and I, my memoir, which is coming out in December, 2026. 00:43:23.826 --> 00:43:24.846 So that's exciting. 00:43:24.846 --> 00:43:25.170 Oh, very exciting. 00:43:25.411 --> 00:43:25.570 I know. 00:43:25.570 -->

00:43:25.891 That's 00:43:25.891 --> 00:43:25.931 awesome. 00:43:25.931 --> 00:43:26.451 Congratulations. 00:43:26.471 --> 00:43:34.505 But I also wrote my way through it, it like, if, if Brene Brown says right from the scar, not the wound, I'm also a big fan of writing wall hemorrhaging. 00:43:34.505 --> 00:43:38.405 I think that's very useful because like you said, you write your way through it. 00:43:38.405 --> 00:43:38.465 Yeah. 00:43:38.615 --> 00:43:42.186 And I think maybe if there, if there's a takeaway to listeners here. 00:43:42.260 --> 00:43:52.820 I think it's, it's what you said about when you had your moment of like, when you, well in, in Liz's book that like saying, my life like this has become unmanageable. 00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:53.061 Right? 00:43:53.061 --> 00:43:53.121 Yeah. 00:43:53.150 --> 00:43:59.960 Something like I, I've identified that this is not sustainable, it's not working, rather than going to shame or judgment. 00:43:59.960 --> 00:44:00.141 It was. 00:44:00.940 --> 00:44:02.561 I need to understand what's happening. 00:44:02.621 --> 00:44:09.280 Like I would say to anyone who is at this pivotal midlife, not crisis, but whatever it is, um, yeah. 00:44:09.340 --> 00:44:11.380 Chrysalis that you're about to go into mm-hmm. 00:44:11.826 --> 00:44:25.240 Go into the midlife chrysalis and figure out what is, what is, what's at the root of this, what do you need to understand about yourself that you're not currently understanding, that's resulting in whatever pattern you're stuck in, that that feels terrible. 00:44:25.510 --> 00:44:28.630 And then, you know, whether you write your way through it or. 00:44:29.081 --> 00:44:34.900 Or evening, walk your way through it or journal or meditate or yoga, but like, I think you're right. 00:44:34.900 --> 00:44:37.360 Doing that, doing something creative like that. 00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:37.931 Something life-giving. 00:44:39.081 --> 00:44:39.380 Yeah. 00:44:39.380 --> 00:44:40.911 To, to help with your healing. 00:44:40.911 --> 00:44:41.420 I don't know. 00:44:41.451 --> 00:44:44.751 I just, I think you're onto a really beautiful formula here. 00:44:44.900 --> 00:44:45.141 Yeah. 00:44:45.141 --> 00:44:48.110 About getting curious at what's going on. 00:44:48.231 --> 00:44:48.471 Yes. 00:44:48.501 --> 00:44:49.460 And that's a word I use. 00:44:49.460 --> 00:44:51.201 You need to get curious about yourself. 00:44:51.201 --> 00:45:04.340 If we get curious about other things, you know, like I'll end up researching Tom Hiddleston for like 25 minutes because I wanna know what makes Tom Hiddleston tick, or, um, I don't know why I picked that person, but. 00:45:04.496 --> 00:45:05.391 I just think he's cute. 00:45:05.391 --> 00:45:06.590 Well, now I wanna, now 00:45:06.791 --> 00:45:07.496 I wanna research him. 00:45:07.496 --> 00:45:07.646 Yeah. 00:45:07.646 --> 00:45:08.186 No, I, I've 00:45:09.206 --> 00:45:09.655 really pointing 00:45:09.896 --> 00:45:11.695 towards stimulus, rabbit

hole and I'm there. 00:45:11.695 --> 00:45:11.815 Who knew? 00:45:12.295 --> 00:45:12.715 Right? 00:45:12.715 --> 00:45:13.135 Yahoo. 00:45:13.135 --> 00:45:13.356 Who knew? 00:45:13.650 --> 00:45:25.885 Um, but it's just funny how we, we give that to so many other things in our life and, and we talk, you know, we will end up, we will research for ages about stuff about our kids so that we can help them. 00:45:26.275 --> 00:45:27.985 Why do we not do it about ourselves? 00:45:28.300 --> 00:45:44.710 And I love how you pointed out the chrysalis thing, because even as I talk about the word stuck and feeling stuck and feeling, you know, like you're in limbo and that moment before where something creative comes along and that feeling of stuckness, that's, that's okay too. 00:45:44.771 --> 00:45:46.001 And that's necessary. 00:45:46.001 --> 00:45:51.380 And there's a part where hunkering down and isolating might not be the healthiest, but there's right. 00:45:51.731 --> 00:45:53.291 There's a time for that, you know? 00:45:53.291 --> 00:45:54.731 Well, you can't skip it. 00:45:54.911 --> 00:45:59.650 I think sometimes you literally need to sit in your shit before you do anything else. 00:45:59.740 --> 00:46:00.460 Exactly. 00:46:00.465 --> 00:46:01.115 And the pain. 00:46:01.420 --> 00:46:03.731 And you need to just allow it to happen. 00:46:03.731 --> 00:46:04.990 Allow it, and sit with it. 00:46:05.291 --> 00:46:06.400 It's kinda like childbirth. 00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:06.911 I mean, you have to. 00:46:07.036 --> 00:46:09.826 Sit through that, those pains and deal with them. 00:46:09.826 --> 00:46:13.936 Although I wasn't personally dealing with them, I was on drugs at the time. 00:46:13.936 --> 00:46:15.646 Which, sorry, it's still, sorry. 00:46:15.945 --> 00:46:16.695 Natural wait metaphor. 00:46:16.695 --> 00:46:18.556 No, the analogy is Yep. 00:46:18.556 --> 00:46:19.005 Anyhow. 00:46:19.141 --> 00:46:22.036 And, and know that you're not gonna be in labor forever. 00:46:22.065 --> 00:46:22.335 Right. 00:46:22.335 --> 00:46:22.666 Exactly. 00:46:22.666 --> 00:46:23.206 Like this is 00:46:23.206 --> 00:46:25.065 not, I down and dealt with it. 00:46:25.385 --> 00:46:25.865 Yeah. 00:46:26.135 --> 00:46:26.376 Yep. 00:46:26.376 --> 00:46:27.545 And kind of isolated. 00:46:27.545 --> 00:46:38.076 And it was, and, and I knew I was doing it and I was aware of it and, and let myself kind of feel sorry for myself and feel shitty on some days, and then slowly I think it was okay. 00:46:38.226 --> 00:46:44.945 I think the difference was the feeling stuck part when I finally looked at that too and said, okay, so this is what you're doing right now. 00:46:45.096 --> 00:46:48.635 I see you're feeling sorry for yourself and you're not, you know, you're not. 00:46:48.815 --> 00:46:55.295 Really doing much and you're eating too much and you're not really getting outside or dealing with anything that's exercise related. 00:46:55.295 --> 00:47:00.036 'cause I really, I have to run every day or my brain is bad, you know, that kind of thing. 00:47:00.036 --> 00:47:01.626 But I wasn't running and all of that. 00:47:02.045 --> 00:47:07.235 And I, I faced it and I finally was like, okay, all right, I see you, I see you stuck. 00:47:07.505 --> 00:47:10.565 Um, that's, you're gonna be stuck, I guess, for a while. 00:47:10.565 --> 00:47:14.706 And then as soon as I did that and admitted to it and, and it. 00:47:15.025 --> 00:47:17.335 It was able to kind of work itself out. 00:47:17.485 --> 00:47:26.365 The kinks were working out at the time, and I slowly got back into, into, um, a creative practice and writing every day and then running, and, you know. 00:47:26.871 --> 00:47:28.791 It's like you have to face it and look at it. 00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:29.505 It's like the mm-hmm. 00:47:29.585 --> 00:47:31.760 I used to tell my kids that they had nightmares. 00:47:32.210 --> 00:47:35.871 Um my son Henry, was really scared of the clown it. 00:47:36.201 --> 00:47:45.860 And um, I told them, in your dream, I want you to, in your scary dream, I want you to go up to the it clown and I want you to boop it on the nose and just go, boop. 00:47:47.150 --> 00:47:48.411 And it's the same. 00:47:48.411 --> 00:47:51.710 It's kind of like, okay, I'm gonna boop you, we call it the boost roll. 00:47:52.251 --> 00:47:52.371 Yes. 00:47:52.371 --> 00:47:53.780 That is brilliant. 00:47:54.045 --> 00:47:54.945 That is brilliant. 00:47:54.945 --> 00:47:57.226 Yeah, I think I, I don't know. 00:47:57.226 --> 00:47:58.365 And, and, and you know what? 00:47:58.365 --> 00:48:04.246 We are gonna have, like, we are gonna have dips, we are gonna have ebbs and then we're gonna need to get back into the flow. 00:48:04.246 --> 00:48:11.115 And I think we need to have the grace and patience during those to know that sometimes we forget and then we're gonna remember again, you know? 00:48:11.175 --> 00:48:11.326 Yeah. 00:48:11.626 --> 00:48:18.525 It's not gonna go away forever and the body will come back and I, I mean, hopefully the body will come back to where. 00:48:19.865 --> 00:48:22.356 It, it needs to be, it'll balance it itself out. 00:48:22.356 --> 00:48:25.326 I know for me, if I go back to drinking, it won't, right. 00:48:25.476 --> 00:48:27.425 'cause that will just take me off the rails. 00:48:27.425 --> 00:48:33.335 So there are some things in place where I know, like some really bad stuff if I, if I do this. 00:48:33.425 --> 00:48:33.485 Yeah. 00:48:33.576 --> 00:48:34.025 Um. 00:48:34.096 --> 00:48:35.865 So I have some boundaries in place. 00:48:35.865 --> 00:48:39.585 I'm not gonna allow myself to just go all out into like, you know, right. 00:48:39.766 --> 00:48:40.786 Fitness and squalor. 00:48:41.115 --> 00:48:44.565 Um, but I do, I'm, I just, I guess the word is gentle. 00:48:44.626 --> 00:48:47.326 I'm just a lot more gentle with, with all of this. 00:48:47.740 --> 00:48:54.856 I, I just remember when I was a little kid, I wanted to, I had a best friend who had horses and I wanted to learn how to horseback ride'cause it was awesome. 00:48:54.856 --> 00:48:55.635 And I loved horses. 00:48:55.996 --> 00:48:59.746 And I just remember one time I just got on this mare and I was just ready. 00:48:59.746 --> 00:49:02.956 Like I was, we were gonna just canter off and I fell. 00:49:03.251 --> 00:49:08.501 Off the horse because I tried too hard to do too much and the horse wasn't ready and I wasn't ready. 00:49:08.771 --> 00:49:11.891 And my friend Tracy walked up to me and I was lying on the ground. 00:49:11.891 --> 00:49:12.971 And she's like, you all right? 00:49:12.971 --> 00:49:13.601 And I said, yeah. 00:49:13.601 --> 00:49:17.231 She goes, you need to be gentle with yourself and the horse. 00:49:17.590 --> 00:49:22.121 And I just always remembered that like, be gentle with yourself and the horse. 00:49:22.181 --> 00:49:23.320 So yeah. 00:49:24.096 --> 00:49:26.195 Those are the perfect words to end of this episode with. 00:49:26.195 --> 00:49:27.365 Yeah, that was good. 00:49:27.371 --> 00:49:27.641 Am I good? 00:49:27.646 --> 00:49:27.846 Wait, 00:49:27.936 --> 00:49:28.806 bring it home. 00:49:29.405 --> 00:49:30.065 That was brilliant. 00:49:30.275 --> 00:49:30.365 Oh, I 00:49:30.365 --> 00:49:31.596 landed the plane. 00:49:31.835 --> 00:49:33.155 Landed the plane. 00:49:33.215 --> 00:49:36.215 No, I, um, just, I got the goosebumps now. 00:49:36.215 --> 00:49:37.326 This was, um. 00:49:37.746 --> 00:49:40.206 Just, I felt like I just took a wisdom bath. 00:49:40.235 --> 00:49:40.775 You know? 00:49:40.925 --> 00:49:44.436 I felt like this was a, an hour of just marinating in the good stuff. 00:49:44.436 --> 00:49:44.826 So 00:49:44.916 --> 00:49:45.126 yeah, 00:49:45.126 --> 00:49:52.681 thank you for being so generous and vulnerable and inspiring, and I can't wait to read your book and we'll link to your book and yay. 00:49:52.820 --> 00:49:54.545 And your TEDx talk. 00:49:54.545 --> 00:49:54.606 Yay. 00:49:54.635 --> 00:49:58.746 And all the places that our listeners can find you in the show notes. 00:49:58.746 --> 00:50:00.036 thank you so much Dana. 00:50:00.335 --> 00:50:01.416 thanks for being here. 00:50:01.956 --> 00:50:06.215 Together, we're going to make midlife neurodivergence less of a mystery.