Pełna transkrypcja odcinka Star power

guide being out, the company started charging people seven francs and then it removed paid advertisements. 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:46.000 So it wouldn't look like a circular. 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:48.399 It wouldn't look, in their eyes, cheap. 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:54.720 So the charging made it this this clear promise about whose interest the recommendations served. 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:55.279 Yours. 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:56.800 Not the restaurants, yours. 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:58.959 Does that still hold a hundred years later? 00:04:59.040 --> 00:04:59.600 I don't know. 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:03.279 Maybe not the verdict's out. 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:07.680 Yeah, you sell the reason to travel, and then you'll sell the product needed to get there. 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:11.040 Restaurant becomes the attraction, tires benefit in the background. 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:18.639 Uh but a while ago, United used to stuff their seatbacks with the United magazine, and it included three perfect days. 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:19.360 Do you remember that? 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:20.959 This sounds vaguely familiar. 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:21.439 Yeah. 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:27.680 If you don't remember, I promise you that they were not doing three perfect days in places where United did not have a hub. 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.319 You know, I think it became a kingmaker, right? 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:36.079 Uh, from some of the originals, like Eugenie Brazier, one of my favorite names to pronounce, right? 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:39.040 Uh, she had two restaurants, three stars each in the 30s. 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:50.560 Uh, and then just about every celeb chef that you've heard of today on you know entire food network programming around people who are dedicated going to win a Michelin star. 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:54.160 But uh it it can convey with that too, right? 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:59.439 Gordon Ramsay, not one of my favorites, but he led a two-star restaurant, Aubergine. 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:00.959 And subsequently, he left. 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:02.319 He earned his third star. 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:06.399 Well, his sous chef, Claire Smith, she goes on to leave Gordon Ramsay. 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:09.279 She starts her restaurant court, also three stars. 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:14.560 Uh, the recognition formally belongs to the restaurant, but the public often gives credit to the chef. 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:17.439 So chef goes, Michelin acts as a kingmaker. 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:22.160 Let's talk for a second, too, about like what the stars actually mean, or at least what they meant. 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:25.279 I think they still, I think they still adhere to this definition. 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:30.560 But uh, when the star system came into place, one star means that this is worth stopping for. 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:36.800 And two stars means that it's worth a detour, and three stars means that it's worth a special journey. 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:52.000 It's interesting to see as that has morphed over the years uh with the modern restaurant world, how those things I think are still probably true, even though I think there's probably a little bit less distinction between a one and a three-star restaurant, at least to civilians. 00:06:52.079 --> 00:07:02.480 I know in that world, in the restaurant world, there's a big difference between those two, but the top rating is effectively staying, look, book a train, get a hotel, organize your weekend around dinner. 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:04.720 And that's probably true for some of the three stars. 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:05.360 They're probably cheap. 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:06.959 Matt, I think you got that reversed. 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:11.199 Like for a three-star mission on a restaurant, you wait to get the restaurant reservation. 00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:17.680 And when you are awarded a seat at the table, literally, uh, then you'll book your flight near a hotel afterwards. 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:18.399 Right. 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:19.279 Right. 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:24.480 Which is, I mean, kind of goes back to the original how this thing started in the late 1800s, right? 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:28.639 Which was uh get them to the place and they'll buy the hotel and they'll travel there later. 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:32.000 One of my favorite uses of the guide was in World War II. 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:44.240 And in fact, if you go back and uh watch World War II movies, or at least movies made about World War II, that the United States reproduced the 1939 guide for military use during the liberation of France. 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:52.240 All the town plans offered these useful street-level details, especially where road signs had been removed and buildings had been destroyed. 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:57.360 You could still kind of get into the guide and get a general layout of the town. 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:01.040 And you could get a general layout of where hotels and restaurants were. 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:06.399 The guide had accumulated enough practical knowledge to essentially become military equipment. 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:14.240 I love the same publication that could help you find the best dinner in a French countryside in peacetime and then navigate that town for liberation. 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:14.800 Pretty cool. 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:20.240 Yeah, the Michelin guide had been a known entity throughout the 20th century, obviously. 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:36.080 But I do feel like it entered another kind of zone starting, I would say in the 80s, 90s, as restaurant culture and fine dining culture in America took off, the Michelin guide started to become more of a thing. 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:41.759 I don't remember, not that we were that erudite as kids, though I would imagine we were pretty erudite. 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:51.440 I don't remember people talking in the mid to late 80s or early 90s as much

about Michelin-starred restaurants as they would say 10 or 20 years later. 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:58.159 Like once you get to the 21st century, this is a thing that shows up on the front pages of the New York Times when the stars come out. 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:08.720 90s, early 2000s, not only do you have maybe more awareness, more restaurants and more awareness of fine dining, but you've got the rise of review systems online. 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:11.759 You've got the rise of cable food shows. 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:21.360 And while those are certainly peripheral, maybe, I think Michelin's status as kind of the old warrior in that world got another bump. 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:35.120 In the midst of TripAdvisor and all the other kind of early internet ranking and rating systems, Michelin was able to leverage a lot of its history to kind of establish some authority. 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:39.519 And I just want to mention that Michelin as a company still owns the guide. 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:45.039 It remains part of the same French tire company that created it 126 years ago. 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:54.320 Like you'd figure in the age of media consolidation here that some outside entity would have bought it or at least partnered with the company. 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:56.080 So that's like, look, this isn't what you do. 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:57.600 We do media, we'll take over the guide. 00:09:57.679 --> 00:09:59.840 You will still have your name on it, we'll give you a partnership fee. 00:09:59.919 --> 00:10:02.639 But Michelin, Michelin still owns it outright. 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:06.879 Until the 1990s, Michelin was really just focused on Europe. 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:12.080 Uh, and in 2005-6 is when they published their first guide to New York City. 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:14.960 Uh, in about a year later, they did Tokyo. 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:17.600 And the year after that, Hong Kong and Macau started to follow. 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:28.639 And so the decisive move out of Europe into North America and Asia happened around the time large rating systems, like you mentioned, TripAdvisor and the like, were really starting to gain some ground. 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:34.080 Michelin had authority in the space, uh, but they didn't have a presence there outside of Europe at the time. 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:44.159 Uh, from call it the next era, 15 to 18, uh, they started really adding countries all around the world: Brazil, uh, Seoul, Bangkok, and Taipei. 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:47.279 Uh, they didn't get to Canada until 2022. 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:48.240 Think about that. 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:56.240 For all the quality fine dining in Toronto and Vancouver or Dubai, they didn't even get there until COVID. 00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:01.120 So I mean, it seems like Michelin's been a global thing for much longer than it really has as a rating system. 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:08.720 It's interesting to think of the United States as the Michelin gods of Brooklyn or San Fernando Valley. 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:10.559 You know, it's like when I moved to New York City. 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:11.919 You mean overpriced? 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:12.960 Yes, exactly. 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:22.320 When I moved to New York, every food review of a restaurant in Brooklyn would start with something along the lines of like, oh, I made my way across the bridge. 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:32.240 Like they were, like they were crossing into some misty foreign land that would always be this kind of exotic, like, wow, you'll never believe what I found in Brooklyn Heights. 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:34.240 It's like, I think we can believe it, man. 00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:39.600 It's to it's it's not, this isn't the 1860s. 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:42.799 We're, you know, it's it's 2007. 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:46.080 I think there's probably some okay restaurants out there for you to check out. 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:51.279 It's interesting that America kind of had a little bit of that guff thrown its way by Europe. 00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:55.039 It's like, what could there possibly be worth starring a North America? 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:55.679 Nothing. 00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:56.799 Nothing, I say. 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:01.279 The the expansion, though, you have to ask, does it dilute? 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:06.240 Right one you got 3,900 starred restaurants today, right? 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:08.399 And a whole bunch of those bib gourmands. 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:14.320 Uh of the starred restaurants, there are 161 restaurants with three stars. 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:17.440 That's pretty exclusive global recognition. 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:22.480 Uh around 552 stars and about just a little over 3,000 with one star. 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:31.679 At what point does to your I think you mentioned this earlier, having a star versus three, if you're not in the industry itself, would you would you shake it off, Matt? 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:37.120 You know, like, oh no, I'm not going across town for a two-star restaurant. 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:38.480 Brooklyn? 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:39.360 No, sir. 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:43.200 Well, hasn't this created a lot of tension and stress with chefs? 00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:46.720 I'm trying to remember if Momofuku dealt with this. 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:48.399 I I need to, I need to go back. 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:51.039 We need to research maybe for our part two of this. 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:58.240 Like, chasing that star and losing a star means losing prestige, it means losing sleep. 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:02.159 And and you know, I was I was reading this thing the other day as we were researching the episode. 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:15.039 It's like winning the star introduces you to a whole new set of champagne problems because it means more bookings, which is great, but it also means potentially higher prices, often higher prices. 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:18.799 You got staff

that's going to want more money, good for them. 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:24.240 You got more expensive ingredients, you got customer expectations that are now through the roof. 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:33.039 When you walk through and even at a one-star, for civilians who walk in for a special date night and do it, they're expecting something massive. 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:41.440 An open table analysis in New York found that a star gain increased the probability of a dinner period being sold out by eight points. 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:43.120 That's pretty significant. 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:48.879 Uh, the analysis found no statistically significant demand decline after you lose a star. 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:52.240 So maybe Matt, the best strategy is to get one and get rid of it. 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:54.720 We also saw a study on pricing. 00:13:54.960 --> 00:14:02.399 Restaurants that reached a third star at some point in our lives, their prices went up dramatically, not unexpected. 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:07.759 Uh, but for your first star, you can count on a 30% menu increase. 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:10.240 Same thing you had yesterday, 30% more. 00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:11.919 Another star, another 30%. 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:25.039 And by the time you get to the difference of menu pricing, there is a 500% revenue premium being paid at a three-star restaurant than what they'd have had prior to being starred. 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:26.480 That's kind of hard to find, though. 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:28.159 There's some loose data going around there, right? 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:29.919 You don't just go zero to three. 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:31.039 So there's a build. 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:44.159 Uh, but when you look at corresponding and similar restaurants, 500 more than a 500% increase in what you pay as a diner because of that star uh might actually be a bit of a turnoff. 00:14:44.240 --> 00:15:00.879 And I think that's what gets you to the champagne problems of the restaurant tour and the chef is that uh we've actually seen ratings drop, like approval ratings by diners decline as the stars go up because that expectation and that price point rise so dramatically. 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:02.000 There was a place in Atlanta. 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:02.320 I don't know. 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:03.759 Have you ever been to Lazy Betty in Atlanta? 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:04.480 You spent a lot of time. 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:05.360 No, but I've heard of it. 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:06.159 I've heard of it. 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:14.480 When they got their first star, they said they had a 30% increase in business the day, you know, in reservations, the day the star was released. 00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:19.679 Well, and it creates expectations, and those expectations are felt by everybody. 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:25.759 British and Irish research found that trip advisor ratings improved after star losses. 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:30.320 Lower expectations kind of help people feel more comfortable. 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:37.360 People become less demanding about service and they become less focused on value, and they're not they're not freaked out about the price. 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:42.480 Now, for the 1% of people out there who go to Michelin star restaurants all the time, that's not a problem. 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:46.799 But for everybody else who's out on date night, those are things that are going to come up. 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:48.559 You're always going to be thinking about the money. 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:48.799 Yeah. 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:53.600 And it's really the chef Sebastian Brahe, who had a restaurant, Le Suque. 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:55.600 It was a family restaurant. 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:57.840 Uh it got its third star in 1999. 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:01.840 He took over from his father, Michelle, in 2007. 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:06.799 In 2017, he asked Michelin leave the restaurant out of its next guide. 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:12.879 And he described the pressures of the anonymous inspections and just wanting to have greater freedom to cook. 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:15.919 And so in 2018, Michelin honored the request. 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:19.120 And then in 2019, they put him right back in with two stars. 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:22.399 I wonder what Bourdain would think of that. 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:23.039 Was he a star? 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:24.399 I can't remember if he was a star guy. 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:25.120 I don't think he was. 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:28.000 He wasn't like a real star fan. 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:31.440 No, Leal was not a starred restaurant. 00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:35.360 I also think to a lot of the conversations we're having, I don't know if he'd have wanted it to be. 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:36.080 I mean, no. 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:38.960 Well, here's what we do know about Anthony Bourdain. 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:46.399 Uh, he said passionately about his show no reservations, uh, we destroy what we love on this show. 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:56.639 Uh, and what he meant by that was the flood of tourists that would arrive after the television exposure, uh, that was that destroyed the vibe of a place. 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.080 Restaurants would expand on all that popularity. 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:02.240 Uh, places became less charming. 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:03.120 They're packed. 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:05.119 Uh, longtime customers got frustrated. 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:07.039 You lost the culture of the neighborhood. 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:18.480 Uh, he was, I think he was pretty clear that at least maybe not on Michelin stars, but that the publicity that came with either his show or something like a guide can often destroy the place. 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:27.119 Michelin reported 7 million social media followers and 3.5 million active app users in 2025. 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:32.079 Its recommendations also circulate through restaurant

publicity and travel coverage, of course. 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:42.960 The badge reaches customers who have never opened a Michelin guide, will never buy it, will never even get on the site, but they just know it because the the recycle of the brand is so powerful. 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:52.480 And because it's so powerful, as a lot of people who listen to this podcast have probably heard or read, uh, there become partnerships. 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:59.839 Whenever you have whenever you have influence and access, you start hearing the word partnership a lot. 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:07.839 And cities and states, without question, pay to enter Michelin's field of vision. 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:21.839 Tourism organizations have committed substantial sums to destination partnerships, for instance,$2.7 million over three years for an arrangement that Texas got into with Michelin. 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:28.240 Now, that arrangement, I think, covered Austin, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio, all the big cities. 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:32.160 Sorry, Marfa, sorry, Tyler, we'll come, I'll come for you next. 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:41.279 Each of those cities committed about$270,000 over three years, with the state matching their combined contribution. 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:53.359 No stars are guaranteed, but this is obviously something that the tourism boards and the state tourism office are all in coordination with each other about. 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:58.640 Even Boston, I think, just paid over about a million for three years. 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:00.319 I hadn't heard that about Boston. 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:07.200 Buffalo uh recently declined a funding proposal, as they would call it. 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:09.119 Uh, you don't call it a ransom, Matt. 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:10.079 It's a funding proposal. 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:16.480 But the tourism chief of Buffalo questioned a financial commitment the return and turned it down. 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:34.480 Uh I was in, I was still a resident in Virginia uh when the state declined, I think it was$120,000 annually, uh, to be well, in and obviously they've been chosen to be out of uh some southern expansion of Michelin star of Michelin ratings. 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:38.079 And Washington, DC, of course, right across River State Inn. 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:50.079 So the Inn at Little Washington, one of America's great restaurants, uh continued to appear in the Washington Guide, interestingly enough, not in Virginia, even though it's at least an hour into Virginia. 00:19:50.240 --> 00:20:02.319 Uh but its inclusion, I guess, says that you know Virginia's decision not to pay the price to be rated, uh, it didn't end Michelin's coverage, but kind of damaged it a little bit. 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:10.079 I wonder why the Michelin rankings it doesn't seem like they affect hotels that much. 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:15.680 For all your time in hotels, do you did you ever sweat Michelin keys? 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:24.960 Uh you know, Matt, I'm gonna dance around this a little bit, but uh because m my employer today has two properties with two Michelin keys. 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:26.400 Oh, how delightful. 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.240 It is though they're they're both delightful. 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:29.119 Good for them. 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:33.359 So I say I'll dance around this because we no, you we don't chase it. 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:35.599 It doesn't feel like it's as I here's the point. 00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:38.240 It's not it's but we appreciate the hell out of it. 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:38.640 Right. 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.200 It's not that you shouldn't chase it necessarily. 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:46.799 It's just it feels like the weight of it in the hotel world is very different than the weight in the restaurant world. 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:56.880 Like in the restaurant world, a Michelin star and like maybe like a James Beard Award, maybe one or two other things are like are the the the now the gold standards, like everybody aims for those things. 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:03.119 Whereas in hotels, I don't hear a lot of language and hospitality about oh, we really need that key. 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:03.839 Right. 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:16.160 You know, what I was just saying about the 500% price increase uh when a restaurant gets its third star, I promise you there's no 500% price increase when we want our second Michelin key. 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:16.960 Right, right. 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:17.839 No, exactly. 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:19.440 That doesn't work quite that way. 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:30.880 But you know, I think in a way though, like the Michelin key, while it is uh somewhat distinct in how elevated it is, as compared to call again, trip advisor ratings or something like that. 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:37.039 Um or even just the star ratings that you see the customer reviews on a booking.com or an expedia, right? 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:45.599 They may not be branded like all the others were thrown out there, but uh that's something we should probably get into a little bit more because a deep dive into what do the ratings mean. 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:54.000 Is it does it matter that Michelin has the authority to send a mystery shopper and that person knows the industry so well they know what to look for? 00:21:54.240 --> 00:22:01.680 Or the wisdom of the masses when you've got 40,000 reviews over a decade by people who simply bought it on Expedia? 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:10.720 Two years ago, uh I think in 24, Michelin launched its keys in France, and in 25 they went global with it. 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:14.559 There are two and a half thousand hotels that they recognize. 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:22.319 About eighteen hundred of them have a key, around six hundred with two keys, and just about a hundred and fifty with three keys. 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:31.759 The hotels first got into Michelin's selection based on design, service, the personality of the product, the hotel, they the value, and the location. 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:36.160 Uh and it's a bit of an expansion because Michelin bought tablet hotels in 2018. 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:38.240 They didn't buy the company for nothing. 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:42.160 They earned commission on those bookings that they make through the tablet platform. 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:51.119 Uh and it is actually a very high-end, nice platform to shop for luxury products, luxury hotels. 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:56.000 So from tablet, they kind of expanded a little bit and began raiding raiding hotels. 00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:56.400 Why not? 00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:59.839 They were already then getting into the hotel business, had gotten into the hotel business. 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:05.680 They are already associated and affiliated for a century with high-quality luxury experiences in dining. 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.799 Why not establish or transfer that over to the hotel world? 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:09.759 And so they have. 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:15.039 And Michelin says that nobody pays, you know, hotels do not pay for fee selection. 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:17.039 I can attest that's true. 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:21.839 They pay for their own flights, they pay for their own hotel stay, they're anonymous, so we have no idea when they're coming. 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:23.519 All that is very true. 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:28.799 Um you do have some restrictions to use their branded collateral. 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:38.559 If I would like to market that key on my digital content, if I would like to include the award, uh, I do need to buy the rights to share that award. 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:40.799 So I can't just put it on there having one it. 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:44.960 I have to make sure I buy the rights to the logo. 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:45.440 Right? 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.519 So there's a little bit of that that goes on, but it's quite frankly, it's very reasonable. 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:59.519 And when I look at you know, just the hotel you're in me, when I look at how much we pay for presence in rating ratings guides, this one is not exorbitant. 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:07.279 And I think it remains some credibility that they are doing it anonymously and that they can only capitalize after the fact. 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:12.079 So in the next episode, we'll talk a little bit about Michelin's future. 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:26.720 We'll talk about Michelin's legacy, how it affected every other rating system in the world, and we'll look at kind of the general state of the union of ratings and what do ratings mean in the influencer era. 00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:33.920 And all questions I'm sure we will be able to answer easily within twenty to twenty five minutes.