Pełna transkrypcja odcinka The Secret to Better Networking: Curiosity, Emotional Regulation & Boundaries with Jolene Watson

room and it turned out she was a career counselor. And she said, I hope you were laid off because right now the government has a grant where you actually get your full tuition paid for a one year program in entrepreneurial business school. Like, do you have a business idea? And I said, I do. And so within three months, I was enrolled in Praxis School of Entrepreneurship. So that was 13 years ago. And that's where I came up with my business plan that I wanted to be a speaker and a coach. And I did all the reports, the career reports on myself. And those were the top careers in the world, aside from veterinary dentist, which I had already done, which again, the I'm a career counselor as well, but that the personality side of choosing the right career is just brilliant. So in all of that, the biggest lesson I think that I learned and I co-authored a book recently and one of the sentences I wrote was, if you see a spark in someone, tell them. If you feel it, act on it. And then the last sentence was, What lights you up? Do that. So that's really what led me into entrepreneurship, which is quite a wild ride of how I got there, but it's been the best 14 years ever. Talia: There's so many goosebumps that are coming up, just so many things that you've said, because you know, I kind of had a journey on that regard where like things kind of blew up, not where I was expecting. And it's kind of led to that. So it's it's amazing how much you let serendipity kind of guide you and open to saying, you know what, I'm gonna see what does spark me joy, not what I'm good at right now, not what this, but what sparks joy. And then you work work went from there. And I just really appreciate that because it's such a different way and different mentality of how so many entrepreneurs look at something. They're starting a business because they're good at plumbing, not because they like it, but because so you're doing it the other way and you seem to have found such joy and are helping other people find joy. So I appreciate that. Emily Harrington: I feel like we need to reignite the book club just so you can read this and now have something to replace your fascination with untamed. Because hearing that one line out of the book, it's like this is Talia. Like she's gonna love this book. I know this from one line. She's gonna love it. Talia: Right, my face already hurts. I don't know how I'm gonna get through an hour of speaking to you because my face already hurts from smiling. So we might just have to cut it at like a 10-minute podcast to have a good one. Now you it's something that you teach is you teach networking etiquette and relationship building. What's the Jolene Watson: Okay. Talia: most important emotion to master when it comes to networking? Because networking is really scary for some people. It is very overwhelming and it it it does become an art. So what have you kind of learned about that? Jolene Watson: So I recently became an emotion-centered coach, an emotional regulation practitioner. And in all of that, there's over 250 emotions in Canada alone. Every country has different emotions. And I had to memorize 68 emotions in one of my certifications. And out of all 68, the story, the impulse, the purpose, there's one emotion that really stuck out to me that if you can master this, you're already great at networking, which is curiosity. to be genuinely interested in someone, want to learn more, tell me more my favorite statement, and not make it about yourself, to be curious about others. And if you can be authentic in that, you're already great at networking. Talia: Yeah. It's amazing that you say curiosity because that has been a common theme in probably one out of like every four podcasts that we've done. Entrepreneurs, the biggest thing that they've said about being successful, being happy is being curious. So it's amazing that you're saying not just for internal, but for the best way to be successful externally is for curiosity. It just really, you know, curiosity didn't kill the cat here. It's really changing the game. So I love that you brought that up. So as a Myers Briggs practitioner, and maybe you can kind of just give a bit of explanation as to what Myers Briggs is, just for some of us who don't quite understand it all completely. Now, can you tell us the importance of the platinum rule when it comes to connection and maybe also explain the platinum rule? Jolene Watson: Absolutely. So Myers Briggs, there's there's many personality tools or profiles in the world. Myers Briggs was initially, it's Carl Jung himself, the father of psychology, came up with psychological types in 1921. And during World War II, and this is really cool on the woman front, two women came together and said, We need to create an assessment that helps people understand their natural strengths and personality. And they actually did it specifically for women because women were going into the workforce at that time that would help them choose sustainable careers. So that's really where Myers-Briggs started. And it's extrovert versus introvert. Most people know that. That's that's Myers Briggs. But there's four, there's four areas in total is how we gain energy, how we gather information, how we make decisions and our lifestyle towards the world. And with all four of those areas and two sides, you have 16 personality types. When I first started with my certification, it would have been 14 years ago, and I love personality, I love the psychology of figuring out what your natural strengths are. I learned about the golden rule, which is to treat people the way you want. But as soon as I got into business, I realized that that rule is not good when it comes to networking, when it comes to business, when it comes to sales. And the reason is people are not like you. They don't want to be like you. They don't want to be treated the way you do because they have different personalities, values, religions, beliefs. So be

cautious with that. What my preference is, is the platinum rule, which is to treat people the way they want. And a perfect example is I'm intuitive in Myers Briggs, which means big picture. I love to focus on the future. I flip around topics very quickly, much more future focused. If I'm talking to a client that's detail-oriented, My style doesn't matter. My preference doesn't matter. I need to give them data, statistics, proof, get to the point and give them steps. So if you can be malleable in your approach and be willing to change your behaviors, that really is in line with the platinum rule, which works much more effectively. Talia: I love that too, because it's true. I'm coming in Jolene Watson: And my heart's too. Talia: and I, you know, like to be very touchy and and when I'm talking to someone, someone does might not like to be touched, right? So I have to acknowledge that this is how they want to be treated. If I want to start a connection, if I keep touching their arm and all they're thinking about is I'm touching that lady's touching my arm, it's not gonna work. it's already off to a bad start. So it is a really great way to look at it. And I've never I've never heard of that before. It's always been the kindergarten rule. treat others like you want to be treated and it doesn't always apply to everything. So that's a really kind of aha moment that I'm gonna take away from there when I'm networking. So thank you for kind of expanding my horizons there. Jolene Watson: Well, and and I'm a hugger too, but my favorite rule with networking is don't touch people you don't know. Never hug people. And if somebody waves or nods, don't touch them at all. They don't even want to shake your hand. So I'm very cognizant in decoding body language before I approach. Talia: And it's funny because like I'm not a hugger with my real life friends, like not my real life friends, but in like real life, like my my family does the awkward, like kind of shoulder pack kind of thing. But then I moved to a small town and I became a hugger. I'm like, what the heck did this happen? Like, so it's true, but I have to kind of find that balance of it all. So something that you kind of opened my mind to as well. Many people assume that great networkers are naturally outgoing. What advice do you have for the introverts who want to build meaningful connections? Without feeling like they're pretending to be someone they're not. Jolene Watson: Yeah, one of my favorite questions and topics. I've been studying introverts and extroverts for 14 years in detail. Like it's so fascinating. And a lot of people think extroverts are outgoing and introverts are shy. That's not at all the case. I know so many speakers that are introverts, hypnotherapists, they have no problem getting on a stage networking, but it's how they process information and gain and lose energy that's different. And introverts are much more reflective, they need more time to process. They lose energy a little bit

more quickly in large events or dealing with a lot of people, whereas extroverts tend to gain energy. So their energy increases Emily Harrington: Mm-hmm. Jolene Watson: in those events. Introverts are like 0%, about 2.5 hours into an event. So my favorite tip, and a lot of extroverts don't like to hear this, but introverts are way better at networking. They talk less, they listen more, they're much more reflective, often much more curious because they want to learn more as opposed to talking about themselves, which Extroverts are not egotistical, but they verbally process. So they love to talk and spit out ideas and change topics, which may be very uncomfortable for introverts. So I often coach my extroverts on practicing some introverted behavioral facets. It doesn't mean you become an introvert. Carl Jung himself said you're born one way or the other innately. But over the years, you can start practicing behaviors and become very mid-zone with your behavioral facets on each side. And I think that's something. To note is that you're not just an extrovert or an introvert. There's always a bit of both when it comes to behaviors. But more importantly, what's more appropriate for that situation? I'm an extrovert, but if I talk to somebody very introverted, talk a little slower. I don't change topics as often. I don't interrupt. I try to dial up my introverted self when needed. And so I think again, going back to that malleability, the platinum rule, and with introverts, and I do say this to my introverts. Sometimes they won't show up to events because they know it's gonna drain their energy. So one of my favorite tips is drive yourselves, never go with an extrovert, because you'll never get out. Drive yourself Emily Harrington: Yeah. Jolene Watson: so you can leave early, hand out three business cards, connect deeply and go home. You do not have to stay for the full event, but if you drive with somebody who's more extroverted, there's a chance they're gonna be the last one to leave. So just to keep that in mind. Emily Harrington: you've basically described the like the opposite ends of the spectrum that we sit in as Let's Network. So Talia's very much the extrovert among us. Laura and I are much more naturally inclined to be introverted that oftentimes you'll find her and I sitting in a corner with our snack while Talia's fluttering around the room. It's like Talia: To that point too, I have two two points to that. So I remember when I was leaving my corporate world, my mentor was just like, when you're going into this, talk less. And I was like, what? What do you mean? And then I kind of thought about it. She's like, listen more, talk less. And it has had a positive impact because I used to be as an extrovert, I I'd hear silence and I'd have to fill it. And it doesn't always have to be that way. There can be silence. People are comfortable in the silence. I'm just not. So it's something I'm working on. Now, you know, I'm kind of jumping off the questions here, throwing a curveball. What would you suggest to introverts and extroverts who are trying to work together? How would you, you know, recommend? We're Emily, Laura and I are still working on finding our groove and stuff, even two years in. So what recommendations would you give to extroverts and introverts trying to work together and kind of coming up with a you know, harmonious relationship. Jolene Watson: Yeah, it's in the the emotion of respect comes to mind. So if I know I'm working with introverts and extroverts and I'm facilitating a meeting, for example, I give extra space for brainstorming. But if I'm gonna bring up something new in that meeting, I know introverts need 24 to 48 hours for them typically to come up with questions and to get really curious and to be more creative. And so I'll say, hey, let's reconvene in two days. So I study both sides and I make sure that I allow space for both. And so that's just something I'm very cognizant of. And you can actually sit down and say, hey, in meetings, what would what would work best for you? And what should I do more of or less of? And then have a half an hour discussion and then start to gear your meetings to make sure everybody feels seen, feels heard. You know, sometimes introverts would rather email ideas and they don't want to brainstorm because that's often very stressful for them. And so I think anyone in a leadership position position or facilitating meetings needs to respect that, but to deeply understand. The people you work with, your colleagues. when I do my full-day workshops, the report is 16 pages. It goes into the 40 behaviors and it actually tells you how to change your behaviors in communication, conflict, decision making when working with your opposite. So this is something you can get very good at, but it does require a high level of respect, making that other person feel seen and heard. Yeah, there's there's a lot of work to be done, but I think the more we work at it, the better we get at creating that space. Talia: I really appreciate that too because I have been in so many workplaces where, you know, sometimes women don't feel that they're able to have a voice during those networking sessions or the brainstorming sessions, or introverts who are brilliant don't feel like they do it and they come after after it. And you're really not getting the full success of your team if you're not adjusting the requests out of them or how you work kind of thing. It's not just the old way or the highway anymore. You can have such a more better effective team if you work with the strengths and weaknesses of your teammates and build on that. Some people and not saying that an introvert is a weakness by any means. I'm just saying that if they are shy, work with that. Don't just ignore it and be like, well, if they can't raise their voice and they don't have that gumption. They have a lot to say. We just have to give them the opportunity to use their voice. So it's a

really great way to look at that. So in the age of LinkedIn connections, followers and digital networking, what does meaningful relationship building actually look like? And I and I'm really interested to hear this because even though I would say I'm on the millennial spectrum, I am pathetic at LinkedIn. I think I've looked at it like two months ago, but it is a tool and it needs to be used effectively. It's not just a Facebook. So can you give us some kind of background on that and how you would recommend using LinkedIn for effective relationship building? Jolene Watson: Absolutely. I actually just gonna show you one of my business cards. I think LinkedIn is a brilliant business platform. And with every business card, I have about eight versions of my business cards, depending on the industry and the subject, but I always have the barcode for LinkedIn on the back. Because I don't want people to Emily Harrington: Kind of yeah. Jolene Watson: go to my website once and never again. I want to connect because that's a forever connection. They're gonna see my posts. If I really connect with them, I'll share their posts. So it's it's a lifetime connection. So I think LinkedIn is brilliant. And it should not be used like Facebook. It should be very business focused, sharing articles, commenting. If you post a video or a picture, people are more likely to follow as opposed to just words. So there's a lot of things to learn about the algorithms. But connection on LinkedIn, I think, is important. However, being an extrovert and being in Saskatchewan especially, it's very agriculture-based, but all of Canada is basically like this too. I'll connect with someone on LinkedIn, have a great conversation, but I always ask for an in-person meeting if possible. And I get off online as soon as possible. And I don't mind driving three, four hours for an in-person meeting, and I'll book other things when I'm there too to make it, you know, worth the write-off of the gas and all the things. But you're more likely to get business and create a deeper connection if you show up in person, because then you can read body language. It's I almost get all of my contracts by in-person meetings, and over the last thirteen years of running this business, ninety-two percent of my clients come from shaking hands, showing up, not online. And I'm not saying all businesses are like that, but I think there's a deeper connection to be had by getting off social media as soon as possible. Talia: And I don't know if you picked up this on Emily's body hues, but the moment you said multiple business cards and putting your LinkedIn Emily Harrington: Yeah. Talia: on the business card, the years in Emily's mind were like So after this meeting I'm gonna get a text be we're revamping the business cards. Jolene Watson: Another tip on business cards, it's one of my favorite topics. I don't know, I have a whole bunch of business cards, but my newest one, red is a real, really powerful color. Is if you put your picture on your business cards, people are 60% more likely to keep your card forever. If you put soft touch laminate and make it a little bit thicker, people immediately assume that you must be successful because your cards are so expensive looking. It's not expensive, but it looks really polished. And then on the back again, I always have my services, any awards if you've won them in LinkedIn. And I have multiple business cards. My No Thank You Forever keynote has its own business card. My stress management courses have the this is fine meme with information. It depends on the industry. My veterin cards actually have a cat on the front and it's more veterinary focused on the back. So I think why not customize your cards if you work with multiple industries. To me, that just makes sense. Talia: It does make Emily Harrington: Well Talia: sense and it's not something that I would have you're really opening my mind to a lot of things right now that I like, my gosh, I never thought of that either. Because it's true, if I'm going into a networking group with a lot more men, they don't care about all the floral little things I add. They want it kind of straightforward and straight to the point. So I I think that's a really great perspective to add to the show. Jolene Watson: And if you have Emily Harrington: Well Jolene Watson: engineers or more logic kind of people, dark blue is a very good color and black with black rim glasses. I do have a pink one focused for more warm industries, but I think it's really important to pay attention to color psychology. Emily Harrington: now you're really tapping all my buttons here. but I will say I think it was so fascinating when you talk about the in-person meeting and the success rate of those. And it really comes down to this idea that your network is your net worth, that relationships need to be at the core of your business building. Because as much as you know, social media has taken over, but we're also in this AI age where people are untrusting of things online, so that in-person relationship, that human connection is so important because referrals are still the best way to grow a business. Talia: And it's funny, like not even just like in the in the business world, but my friends I I had met my husband before Tinder and everything kind of became a thing. But my recommendation to them was always like have a little conversation, but then meet for coffee right away. If you start tack t texting for three weeks and stuff, by the time you get there, it's awkward or the spark is already gone, kind of thing. I was like, have a connection and then go. And if it's an awkward coffee, it's an awkward coffee. My friend was in and out of the works in like 30 minutes for a burger. She was like, No, it was terrible. But I was like, but then you learn, you know what you want, you know what you don't work, you know right away if you're gonna have that connection. So and then plus, you know, if you're making the

effort to drive four or five hours to meet with someone, that person's also thinking, that person is actually committed. It's not just something online that they can, you know, for lack of a better term, ghost, which also came in. After I started dating my husband. Now, you've mentioned it in one of your business cards, and I'm excited to dive into this because I myself have a terrible problem with saying no. And so one of your popular topics is no, thank you, forever. Emotional regulation and setting boundaries. How can professionals set healthy boundaries and say no when necessary without damaging important relationships? Jolene Watson: Yeah, so where that came from is one of my clients, I walked into his office randomly one day, and he's a CEO of this amazing company I've worked with in the past. And he said, Jolene, I want you to put your name forward for board nominations next week. And I said, no, thank you. Forever. And he started laughing and he goes, Did you just say forever? And I'm like, Yeah, corporate governance kind of kills my soul. I love working with boards on the personality side, but I don't want to be on the board. Well, he laughed. I told my coach that night and she said that. is the most brilliant statement I have ever heard. You need to trademark that. You need to make that your next keynote. So that's where it came from. But you don't have to say no thank you forever to everything. But if you have two or three things that you know do not light you up, don't do it. You're not doing anyone a favor because your full energy is not going to be in it. No thank you for now is also something you could say. Or yes please, always, you know, if somebody asks me to volunteer for anything about saving animals, I'm in, right? Corporate governance, I'm out. And if you know that ahead of time, it's a lot easier to be assertive, confident in your no or your yes, because we only have 1440 minutes a day. You know, this, I don't know if you can see it from here, but this picture, my mentor bought me that. And it's every line is a year of your life and every square is a week. And you fill that out. And it reminds you that you should really be doing the things that bring you energy and saying no to the things that don't. So that's that's my daily reminder to be cognizant. Now, on the other side of that, might you lose some friends? Maybe. The emotion is dignity. I am worthy. I decide for me. This is the Uber emotion that helps you set personal and professional boundaries and to act as a legitimate human being. If you start living in dignity, you absolutely extend it to others, which is a beautiful place to be. But we also have to remember: if you're a people pleaser, or you were, I'm a recovering people pleaser, you've caused this. If you say yes all the time, people absolutely are going to expect you to keep doing that. So it's common that they might not like it when you start setting a few boundaries. But if they're your true friends, they're

going to stick around and they're going to support that. So it is something it's it's a little bit when you start getting used to setting boundaries, it can feel really difficult at first, but the more and more you work at it, the better you get. One of my favorite examples and in the workshop I give this template and you're you're entrepreneurs, so you know this. At least once a day, sometimes once a week, depends. Can you sponsor this? Can you do something for free? Can you give us money? So you can't say yes to everything financially and time-wise. So what I do now is I sit once a year and I say, What are my top three charities and nonprofits that are deep, deeply connected to who I am and my values? Then I volunteer, I do all the things. But then when someone asks me, I have a clear statement of here's my three, I've already chosen. Thank you for reaching out. So it shows that you're a kind person and you do give back to your community, but you can't do everything. So I think just having those statements in advance and knowing that you don't have to explain why you say no. It's not anyone's business. You could just say that doesn't work for me. Period. Talia: Yeah. It's amazing that you say that because it's really prevalent in my life right now. I'm actually creating a checklist. So my my real job is the downtown Kempfill BIA. And so we get asked for sponsorships all the time and we're nonprofit, but we do have a little bit of sponsorship money. So I actually created a checklist. So it has to at least hit six of these things. Like, is it in the downtown core? Does it is it one of our partners? Does it impact one of our businesses? It has to at least hit one of those. And then there's a mark at a 30. And it has if it hits like, you know, 25 to 30, we'll sponsor it and stuff. So at least by having those kind of scorecards, we can alleviate being like, I'm sorry, you you don't hit these checkpoints. So yes, we don't have to explain, but kind of just to ease it since we're a part of the community. One of the other things I wanted to kind of pivot on that you said, the no thank you forever. I don't want to go hiking at four in the morning. No, thank you forever. Don't ever call me for that. But for the charities, a cat. You're like, I am always in. Now, how do you say no thank you to things you want to do without ending up as a crazy cat lady with thirty cats in your house? Yeah. Jolene Watson: Well, where's my limit? I have four rescue cats, of course. Talia: Okay. Emily Harrington: Yeah. Talia: So that's where you draw the line. Jolene Watson: That's for but when it comes like I'm a professional cat cuddler and the animal control they own the city pound or they run it, they're my clients. So I I can go there anytime, walk into the back, cuddle cats, cuddle kittens, take pictures and find them homes. So Emily Harrington: No. Jolene Watson: that's how I don't keep them all is my goal, my personal purpose in life is to find homes for these cats. So that's something I'll do forever. The Saskatchewan SPCA, every conference they have, I'll speak for free. Like that's it saves them thousands of dollars. It's my give back. I get to support something I'm deeply involved with. And women, women in non-traditional roles. I I speak a lot with women in mining, women in trades, you know. So again, just to sit and think, does this align with who I want to be as my company? I put this in the business plan every year of which where I want to support. And this is interesting. One of the top reasons that people stay in a in a company, like stay, choose to stay there. Is service orientation to the community. So if you do volunteer and give back, I think it's important to tell people, and the emotion of pride just is I've done something really cool and I want others to know so we can better connect. It's different than arrogance, which is comparative. So I think it's important for companies to show that they're volunteering, that they're giving back, that they're sponsoring, because that's actually the number one reason people choose to stay. So again, share it, but be wise with your time. Right. And I don't do ongoing commitments. I'm not on any committee, nor will I ever be. That's not my I like to do one thing and then I'm out. One thing. That's that's my preference. Other people love the community meeting weekly or monthly. So it's to really figure out, again, going back to what lights you up and what fits your energy. Talia: And that's one thing I do struggle at. Like I was like saying to Emily and Laura, the Let's Network ladies, I was looking at my July calendar. I was like, and we have no nights available because I have said yes to everything that brings me joy. Sign my kids up for every activity. Let's go to book club, let's do this. And I just have to find a balance of saying no to the things that I want to do, experiencing the yellow and and kind of moving forward with that. So I have to figure out. what brings me joy the most and kind of go from there. So most people have heard of emotional intelligence. You are certified as an emotional regulation practitioner. Can you explain the model you use in your workshops? Jolene Watson: Yeah, so this is it's so amazing. It's the first assessment to ever exist of its kind. And my coaches are in Texas and Spain, and they have been the most incredible mentors I could have, both of these men. And so I'm now certified. But what it is, what their model is that I teach, and I'm the only one certified in Saskatchewan, which is pretty cool. There's only, I think, four of us in Canada, is emotional intelligence. A lot of people have heard of that. And they say you have to be more emotionally intelligent. Leaders need this. True. However, emotional intelligence is knowledge based. It's awareness of yourself and others. Can you read a room? Can you walk in and be appropriate? That's emotional awareness, right? Or intelligence. Literacy, when I had to memorize

those 68 emotions, the story, the impulse, the purpose, that's can you actually articulate the emotion you're experiencing? And those are two separate areas. They're both knowledge based. But what we often miss is the action part, which is the most important, which is emotional. Resilience, can I bounce back after challenge? But more importantly, emotional agility. In the moment, can I dial up or dial back emotions, pair emotions? And overall, emotional regulation is to be in choice. Now, something that I find fascinating from a neuroscience perspective is if you can actually name the emotion you're experiencing in one or two words. It activates the prefrontal cortex and immediately gets you out of fight, flight, or freeze. So when somebody says, well, the emotion made me do that, nobody makes you do anything. And emotion gives you information. It's your choice if you're gonna act on it or not. And I think a lot of people don't realize that we are in control of how we choose. You can't choose which emotion's gonna come up, but you can choose just to take the information it's giving. So this has been a one year process of meeting with my coaches, sometimes two to three times a week. diving so deep into all four of these areas. And I think that's something we miss when we just focus, for example, on emotional intelligence. Talia: And it and it's true. We've kind of been so focused on acknowledging the emotions, but then we're like, what do you do with them? And it's kind of gone off into the the universe. And it's like, well, we do have to kind of work within that kind of thing. Yes, you know, sometimes I have a quick temper, but I have to realize how to kind of deal with it and move forward effectively or not, you know, sometimes I cry if I'm really emotional. Like it's not you know, when you're so mad you cry and it's just like And I have to be able to kind of acknowledge that and use it to move forward in a healthy manner. Not there yet, working on it. There Jolene Watson: Yep. And it's practic. Nobody's perfect. Talia: you go. Now you've received significant recognition for customer service excellence. What separates organizations that create loyal customers from those that simply provide a product or service? And I feel like this is a really important question because for so long. Companies were praised for their customer service, and you would go into the brick and mortar stores and you would talk to people and you would build that relationship. You know, I read a really interesting article where people used to have a full career at Sears, and that was a great career. And people would keep going back to buy your washing machines and everything. Then we kind of shifted a little bit, especially during COVID. Where we didn't want to see people, we just wanted to order online. We kind of liked being in our own holes and everything. And now we're shifting back to we want that relationship. We want to talk to people. We don't want to just go online. We want to support the businesses that make our community amazing. So many brick and mortars are closing because we had focused online for so long. So, you know, can you give us a bit of a deep dive into that? Jolene Watson: Yeah, customer service. I've won two customer service excellence awards. And the reason for that, I would say, is again curiosity, deeply curious about what their challenges are, not what I think I should teach. So if somebody hires me to do a keynote, for example, or a full-day workshop, I do surveys in advance to everybody, ideally. So I know exactly what their challenges are, where they're falling, what their personality preferences might be ahead of time, which really helps me. Because I'm a career options coach. I also study extensively every industry and what their personality types are. And I cater my presentations, details are big picture, introvert, extrovert. So I'm very customized in that approach. You'll never get the same workshop twice, depending on the industry, the follow-up, the post-survey sessions, feedback forms to say, did I do it well? What could I do better? I get a brand new certification every year. I remember my favorite example is I was doing Myers Briggs and I'm certified in the stress management side as well. And I had the whole workshop. This was a tractor company in Saskatchewan. Two weeks in advance, they said, we want you to do change management. Can you do that? And as an entrepreneur, you say, yes, then you figure it out, right? And I was like, okay, I could do this. So where I got certified, turns out, was having a change management course three days later. So I drove 10 hours to Edmonton there and back. got this certification course, came back, revamped my entire PowerPoint, added in the change management piece. They loved it. So I think being able to be adaptable and not what you think is best, what do they need? What do they want? Make sure you're talking to the decision makers and the people that actually, you know, because sometimes they'll say, this is what we want and this has happened to me. And I'll say, well, should the CEO or this leader be in this session? And then it turns out they want something completely different. So making sure you're talking to the the right people before you figure out the objectives the needs, but it's all about them. It's not about you. And I think that's a big piece of customer service. I remember, I love Toyota. Love it. And I remember this was 10, 15 years ago maybe, I wanted a silver Corolla. That was on my vision board. I wanted that. And I walked in and he sold me exactly what I wanted. Cool. He didn't ask any questions. I look back at that and it's similar where you live too, but the snow, the minus 50, That was a horrible car for winter conditions. I got stuck in snowbanks all the time. I should have had an SUV with all-wheel drive, studded winter tire. They didn't even bring that up. Like, hey, where are you gonna drive? Are you on the

highway a lot? Are you scared of driving? How do you like driving on ice? I would have immediately spent more money and bought an SUV, but they didn't ask. So you might say, Well, that was great customer service. They gave you what I wanted. True, but not what I needed. So I think you really have to take a deep dive and ask lots of questions and really amp up your curiosity. Talia: No, it and it's Jolene Watson: Okay. Talia: true. I I say I've said many times I'm horrible at sales because I lack the the kill at the end kind of thing. Like, let me know. And Emily has been like, Talia, you are great at sales. You do find those connections, but it's just kind of making the tie-in together where it's just like find out who they are. Don't be afraid to ask. If you ask, you'll probably get more yeses than you will know. Stop being afraid to do it. but kind of combine both the curiosity and the the gumption almost to kind of ask at the end, which I I still struggle with. Emily Harrington: Well Jolene Watson: follow up, right? Don't forget to follow up. I think sometimes it's not the right time. Maybe the budget's gonna come in later, but so they don't forget about you. Emily Harrington: Well, I think that's also a really good point too, Talia: Absolutely. Emily Harrington: where we can talk about like women in sales, because when you think of a traditional salesman, we so many of us we still think of Batilla's dad, like the car salesman that's just gonna be like, Yeah, whatever, or we've all had an experience like that with a salesman before, right? But that natural curiosity, that ability to ask insightful questions and be able to actually help solve a problem for the customer. Is what makes women Talia: it's true. And I think this is where, you know, everything you've spoken about, Jolene, is very important because women do sales differently than men. It's not gonna be the same way that we all approach a sale, and that's okay. You know, there are strengths and weaknesses to both, and don't feel like just because you don't have like the silver tongue. That you're not going to be a good salesperson. There are very many ways to be effective. I was listening to, I've I've mentioned it before, and we've actually had Catherine Scott on the podcast, listening to her with sales, she very clearly got rejected from a client. And then she was, she didn't just take it. She was just like, I understand what you're doing, but just so you know, I'm an expert in this area, and this is where I, and you know what I mean? And so she didn't take it, she put in her her You know, her strengths and then left it kind of thing. But I really appreciated that rather than just kind of being like, okay, she gave it one last shot and then she like moved on. She didn't let it get to her. But I always kind of walked away from that being like, you know, rejection isn't a huge deal. So don't be afraid to mention it or don't be afraid to ask because you know, thank you. Next, we're gonna, we're gonna be okay. So as technology and AI continue to change how we communicate. What human skills do you believe will become even more valuable in business? Jolene Watson: Definitely the emotion side, the authentic connection, creating connections is the title of my networking course, and AI will never be able to do that better than an actual human because we have social acuity. AI will never. They cannot read that. I think AI has its place. I get it to reword my emails. The one thing that I find fascinating is to be charismatic, you need to be definitely more on the empathetic side, but also the logic side. So if you can play that role of both, people tend to see you as more confident. So if you're more warm or people pleasy and have a lot of smiley faces, you can say make this email more competent, because I'm emailing an engineer, for example. Or if you're a little bit too abrupt, you can say warm up this email. So I think AI has a beautiful place in communication in written form, but it could never replace that in-person connection and the longevity of that. Talia: Absolutely. And it's true. When you get into a room with someone, it's a completely different ballgame than from what you're emailing. And you know, sometimes emails, regardless of AI edited or not, can come across as cold. And you may not have meant it that way, but you're reading it in a completely different way. So having those connections, building those relationships, because if I've had a relationship with you and I get an email. I know you're warm and fuzzy and lovely. So I'm not gonna read your email a certain way. But if I don't know you and I read them, you know, like, that's rubbing me the wrong way. So I do think building those relationships before you kind of continue on the AI thing is going to be the make or break for successful relationships with entrepreneurs. So something else that we kind of have spoken about with team building and everything, you speak on employee retention. What's one thing leaders consistently underestimate when it comes to creating a workplace where people genuinely want to stay? And I think this is so important right now because so many people are doing the virtual thing. So what's to say that why wouldn't I work for this business and do it virtually when I could go work for that business and make 10 grand more if I'm gonna be in my office anyway? So this I think is gonna be a really important topic moving forward. Jolene Watson: It is, yeah. And I just had a friend who just quit her job because they wouldn't let her work at home. She prefers to work at home and she does better that way. So I think the digital the hybrid is gonna stay. That's that's never going away. But what you can do for employee retention and building that trust and that culture where people actually wanna stay, it's not necessarily about money. A lot of people think it is, but that's not even in the top ten. So what I mentioned the service orientation was

number one of why people want to stay at companies. What was interesting, Psychometrics Canada, where I got certified in Myers Briggs, did a study pre and post-pandemic. And it was, why are you staying with these companies? And there were six, like creativity, influence, security, they were all in there. But interestingly enough, during the pandemic, career development doubled and became number two. Now, on that side, what that means is are they actually recognizing your natural gifts, your strengths, your talents? Are they giving you opportunities for growth? Do you want to become a leader? Have they talked to you about that? If you're missing that, you're gonna lose employees so quickly because they don't know what their trajectory is within that business. And that boss that I had mentioned before who told me to go back to entrepreneurial business school, I didn't mention that he was a thinker, I was a feeler. So we were butting heads, we were polar opposite in our decision making. And I was gonna quit my job. I would I had my resignation letter ready. I was ready to quit. And he said, My gut feeling says you're gonna quit. I'm like, Do you want it now or later? I got the letter. And he started laughing. And he goes, No, no, I'll pay for your Myers Briggs. I think I have a feeling about why we're so different. And he immediately changed his leadership approach and I started taking things less personally. And since then, I hire thinkers always to balance me out on the coaching side. But something he did going back to retention is he gave me a scorecard and I share it now with my clients. And it was, what are the top 10 things that are most important to you, your needs and your wants? And I want you to rate them from one to ten. You can have two tens, just put them in order. The bottom piece that took me about a week to come up with that. The bottom piece, he said, now I want you to rate how happy you are in each of those areas. And it gives you an overall score. But what that gave him was, hey, I can maybe do two of these 10 things that are most important to her. Maybe I can't give her a raise or do some of these other things. I had never had an employer approach me to say, what do you want? And how can I help you stay? And I think that's a piece of the puzzle that sometimes is missing in those performance reviews that they have once a year. The the you know, monthly check in should be more the norm as opposed to once a year. So career development would be my answer for that. Talia: And it is true. So my background is HR. I took it at Humber College. And, you know, professional development training, training opportunities are so important within organizations, but as soon as there's a financial crunch, what gets cut first is the training. And that's when businesses become stagnant. That's when the employees get unhappy. That's when things start to slip because no one's no one's brainstorming. No one's learning something new. No creativity is happening. So I think it really is important to have those opportunities and to acknowledge that that leads to more success. You could be a very successful business, but there's always room to grow and there's always room to improve. Jolene Watson: Yeah. And you might have seen this meme in the HR world. And I've profiled a lot of HR professionals and they tend to really sit in between feeling and thinking with their behaviors because they have to be both on a daily basis. But I think it was Peter Breckland who said, CFO says, what if we invest in our employees and they leave? And the CEO says, What if we don't and they stay? That's one of my favorite quotes because to your point, yeah, they might leave, but you're investing in that person in that moment and it's going to create the culture you're looking for. Talia: And not only that, when you when you kind of say it that it's interesting too, you might not be investing in your staff, but other organizations are. So all of a sudden all of their staff are growing and developing and you know, moving light years ahead, but you haven't put your money in. So then you're like, why didn't we think of that? Well, you didn't give us the tools to learn and think about it, right? So it's it's not just about the people, it's also about the bottom dollar. It's a very, you know, linear cycle there. Jolene Watson: Mm. Absolutely. Emily Harrington: That's also an interesting point. no, it Talia: Emily, I thought you were vibrating. There she is. Emily Harrington: reminds me of a story. I made a recommendation of, hey, I want to pursue this education, this career development. And it was met with that resistance of, well, you could take that education and move on and support another organization. And those things stay with you. As an employee, those things stay with you of am I valuable, am I not valuable enough that you want me to continue to grow and thrive here? And it's interesting because it plays such an important and pivotal role in not only the longevity of the employee, but their buy-in, that if the company hits a tough point, they're gonna walk. And it's a lot more expensive to replace an employee than it is to give them additional opportunities. Talia: it's true. And like I look back at my the corporate job I was with EY Canada. Fantastic organization. They treated me so well. You know, I had the vacation, I had the learning opportunities. I I loved it. So to make that decision to leave was heartbreaking. It's just so it and it wasn't about the money by any means. It was because they built an organization that I was proud to be a part of. They had volunteer days, they had those things that you could do. So so building that was way more important than the money was ever kind of thing. I miss I definitely as an entrepreneur miss the vacation days, but that's okay. Yeah. Now, just to kind of go back to like the networking kind of portion of everything, can you give us some body language tips that help to

build trust quickly? And it's so funny having this conversation. I know no one will see it because it'll be like Spotify and stuff, but like I'm sitting up straighter, I'm like making sure I'm on. Like I was like, my gosh, this is an expert here. And I was like, like I'm reading the questions, but I want you to know that I'm paying attention. So I'm working really hard right now. Normally I'm like bent over like a croissant. So right now I'm sitting up really straight. Jolene Watson: And that's that was my first tip is Tony Robbins. I met him, that was like so amazing. But one of the tips that he gave is if your spine is straight and your postures correct, number one, you look more professional, but number two, your memory retention doubles. So your listening increases, your curiosity goes up. So people want to be around you and you just look like you know what you're doing. So walking with purpose, sitting, even on Zoom, sitting with purpose, creating a lot of space between your chin and your shoulder, that's When we're stressed, we tend to lift up our shoulders, and people notice that from across the room. So just to create that space, have the posture that looks professional, I want to be here. The other tip, if you're online, and for those of you that are listening and not watching, I have a microphone in front of my face at all times, and people automatically assume I'm an expert because of this. It is such a simple thing to do. It's one of my recommendations if you're online. Always have a microphone in front of your face. Smiling genuinely. Right. So that people can see the crow's feet, the wrinkles. Never get Botox around your eyes because people will think you're disingenuous. Because we look for those wrinkles that are created with those natural smile lines when you ignite your cheek muscles. So looking approachable. Now eye contact depends on the culture. Every culture is a little bit different, but one of my favorite universal kind of tips is to look at someone long enough to see the color of their eyes. Then you can look away. But don't stare someone down. So be just cognizant of your own decoding and encoding, they call it, like your own body language, but reading other people. Another thing with networking, when I walk into a room, I look at people's shoulders and their feet. If they're facing each other, squared off, don't approach them, even if you know them. They're actually subconsciously saying, we don't want a friend right now. But if somebody has one foot turned out or one shoulder placed out, I will approach, especially if it's a business event, I will approach strangers because they're actually subconsciously saying, Anybody can join us right now. So just watching people's feet, watching shoulders, watching their body language, being cognizant of your own, I think those are all really important in professionalism. Another really cool tip, I love color psychology. I have this blazer in 32 colors. Same blazer, love this blazer, is if you wear the color of shirt or blazer that matches the logo of the company you want to work with or collaborate with, they're more likely to feel more warmly towards you. So I'm very conscious, and I actually I think I have them here, I'll be able to show you this. So these glasses, I have 52 pairs of glasses as well, and different shapes elicit different emotions, different generations prefer different shapes. So I'm very cognizant. However, these glasses, this is one of my pairs, you can actually buy the toppers, Talia: Little snap ons. Jolene Watson: yeah, and change up your colors. So when I work with engineers, for example, it's always black or dark blue and cat eye. Always. Cause it demands competence, right? So I I think how you it doesn't matter what kind of clothes you wear, the brand, who cares? But do you look polished? Are are they steamed? There's no stains, there's no wrinkles. Like people do notice things like that. Apparently, people notice shoes. I'm not a shoe person, but now that I know that, I polish my leather shoes. I'll actually be cognizant that people may be looking at every angle, right? And so just to be aware of how you show up. Talia: That's amazing. Actually, our event next week, we have it's called Styled for Success. And we have a stylist coming in to find the best colors and find the best outfits for moving forward. So it is a thing. And you know, Emily and I always say to people when you're coming to a networking event, you're nervous. If you dress to feel confident, you're gonna feel more confident walking into that room. If you feel like if you don't feel great in your own clothes and your own skin at that moment, it's gonna come across with networking. So fake it till you make it. You know, dress the way you want to appear and kind of go from there. Now, the next question I want to ask you, and I'm very excited about this. You've been speaking professionally for years. What's the biggest mistake people make when presenting, whether it's on stage, in meetings, or during networking conversations? Because this is one of my bucket lists. I want to do a a speaking event at one point in the next few years kind of thing. So what are the mistakes that people make and how to be successful when presenting? Jolene Watson: So we'll start with on stage, and this is one of my biggest pet peeves ever as a speaker at conferences. Is if you have a one-hour time frame or a 30-minute time frame, I don't care if you have four more slides. You're done. The second your time is up, you say, Well, that brings me to my last slide. They don't know that you have more slides. When you say, I'm almost done, I just have five more slides, and then you take their coffee break or you take that next speaker's time, people remember you very poorly. So, how I mitigate that, I bring three to four timers when I have a large space to speak in so that I can quickly glance and know exactly where I'm at. You can get clickers that have

they'll vibrate in your hand that'll give you a warning that'll tell you your time's up. So being cognizant of respecting people's time and this goes sideways all the time. Or if you're speaking and the speaker in front of you goes five minutes over, I cut mine by five minutes and I keep the event on time. So that would be my first tip. If you're on stage and there's a podium. Don't, if you can help it, don't stand behind a podium because then you lose all your body language. Ask for a microphone that you can hold or a hands-free microphone and use the stage, use your presence. People generally appreciate that. Never hold the podium. People do that when they're extremely nervous, and people notice that from across the room. If you have a microphone, never hold it with two hands. That also indicates nervousness. So just one hand, even if you have a clicker in one hand and a microphone. Showing the palms of your hands as you speak shows that you're trustworthy. This goes way back to our reptilian brain. If we can't see someone's hands, they may have a weapon. That's where that comes from. And so news anchors do it all the time. So even if I have a clicker and a microphone, I'll still generally show my palms as I'm speaking. Utilize your body language, not just your voice. And so those are two things for being on the stage. If it's just a networking event, talk about yourself, sure, but make sure you ask a lot of questions of others. Just because you get 20 business cards doesn't mean you were successful. It probably means you didn't deeply connect with enough people. Do they want to connect with you again is always the piece that matters, not how many people did you connect with. So again, just authentic curiosity, watch the body language. And you said fake it till you make it. Well, my goodness, if I walk up on the stage with my shoulders slumped and I'm holding the microphone, even if I'm confident, that's gonna portray that I'm not. So you can really play around. And Tony Robbins talks about this too with the power pose, you know, the hands on the it actually increases your testosterone. So Talia: Yes. Jolene Watson: there's neuroscience behind it. It's not fluffy stuff. So when I teach, it's always practical application. What can I do to activate my parasympathetic nervous system? How should I be breathing? One of my favorite tips if you're nervous, if you chew gum or yawn or take deep breaths, it calms you immediately because you would never do those things in an emergency. So when I drive on pure ice, I chew gum because it tricks my body into thinking that I'm safe. It gets me out of that fight, flight, or freeze. So I think just knowing the neuroscience as well can really help you be professional and poised. Talia: Definitely gonna take a few of those suggestions back because I know I've gripped a podium or two. Now you have built this award-winning business. Looking back, what's one piece of advice you would give to an entrepreneur just starting out? Jolene Watson: To definitely know that it's gonna be more work than you think it is, but that's okay. Courage, resilience, those are emotions you're gonna need. There were some years where I worked a lot of 16 hour days, but I was creating my dream. And as stressful as sometimes it is, the reward will outweigh that every time. There's nothing more exciting than entrepreneurship and creating something and helping in the area that you chose. The other thing, and this is something that I did from day one, I mentioned I went to Praxis School of Entrepreneurship, which was the program, right, to learn everything you need to know about being a business owner. And they had mentors in that program that basically held your hand and taught you everything from bookkeeping to listening to networking to sales. And I ended up teaching there for 10 years. As soon as I graduated that program, I immediately got on a mentorship program and had three mentors in the next five years. And now I hire coaches. I always have a mentor or a coach, whether informal or formal. Because to have somebody on your side to bounce ideas off of, even other entrepreneurs that you meet for coffee can be very informal, but you need that to keep up that courage and resilience because then this won't shock you, but entrepreneurs are four times more likely to succumb to mental health issues. It's a lot. Like they're doing all the roles, right? Especially if they don't have the funds to hire a bookkeeper, for example. You do everything. And so just to make sure you keep your purpose and get people to support you and you can work your way through anything. Talia: No, I believe that. I believe that. Especially too if you have employees. There's a like that whole added stress about everyone else's livelihood. So many Jolene Watson: Yeah. Talia: professionals are feeling overwhelmed and stretched thin. What's one practical strategy people can use to better manage stress while performing at a high level? Jolene Watson: Yeah, I'll give you two, one on the emotion side, because I have my two certifications and one on the personality side. So overwhelm is not an emotion, it's a state, it's a condition. So it's hard for your brain to process that. In fact, it can't. But if you say, I'm feeling overwhelmed, cool. Am I actually fearful? Do I know the trigger? Or is it anxiety? I don't know the trigger. Or is it actually doubt? Never done this before, so maybe I need more learning to get through this or action-oriented. If you can name the emotion, again, you activate. Prefrontal cortex, you get into logic mindset, solution-oriented mindset. I'm going to solve this problem. But to have a state or a condition, your brain cannot process that. But it gives you information, but you need to go deeper. The other side, the personality side, and I'm certified in this and I've been teaching this for 13 years and I think it's so powerful. They separated out 92,000 people into 16 personality types

with the Myers-Briggs and interviewed them and said, What are your triggers? Acute stress, chronic stress, how do you get back to balance? How can others help? What makes it worse? Each of those personality types had very different answers and they have customized reports. But most importantly to remember is that when you're under acute stress, you flip your personality type to the opposite. Extroverts shut down, they become introverted. Introverts will often get loud. Thinkers who are very logical might get emotional and cry in public, something they would never do. Whereas feelers might flip over to the thinking side and get very critical or tough. That is normal, however. If you practice behaviors on both sides and I pay for my report every year and I track my behavioral movements, in the future you can temper your stress responses if you practice those behaviors, because when you flip, you're gonna have neurons that have already been created with that behavior. So you'll get better at stress. So that's one of my favorite tips from a personality side is you can actually get better at stress by practicing new behaviors. Talia: Which is something I think we all need to work on, especially with the state of the world. I think we're all just kind of in fight or flight at this moment. so it's really Jolene Watson: Yes. Talia: important to kind of practice, yeah, not just how you react to it, but how you deal with it. And just like for the final thing, if every listener could walk away from this conversation with one mindset shift about relationships, communications, or success, what would you want it to be? Jolene Watson: And this ties everything together. And it's my favorite quote that I came up with. You cannot change your personality type, but you can always change your behaviors and your emotions. That's it. Talia: Appreciate that. Well, this has been a very humbling, eye opening kind of deep thinking one because there's taking a lot away from here on how to better myself and and better how I network and and and deal with people. So I really appreciate the time you took to chat with us. Thank you so very much. Jolene Watson: You're most welcome. It was an honor to be your guest. Emily Harrington: Now before we let you go, can you tell our audience how to find you online? Jolene Watson: Absolutely, JoleneWatson.com or JoleneWatson at live.com for email. Super simple. And I actually have an entire brand new video on emotional regulation. So it has its own page. And there's also a workshop tab and a speaking topics page. So it's really easy to navigate the website. And that's my final tip. Anyone that wants to be an entrepreneur in the future, or even if it's just a consideration, buy your name in a website domain.ca.com because then if you ever decide to do it, you already own it. Talia: Appreciate that. My brother gave me that tip too, so I really do appreciate it. Well, thank you so much. Jolene Watson: You're welcome. Emily Harrington: Thank you. Yes, we are so excited. And I guarantee that as much as my brain's on fire, Tally's is equally on fire. So I don't know who'll send off the rapid fire text messages first. But we are Talia: Yeah. Emily Harrington: we hope that everybody who listens got just as much out of this episode as we have. And thank you for listening. We will catch you on the next episode of Let's Network the Podcast.