Pełna transkrypcja odcinka It's All Write to Fuhgeddabout the Plot

myself somewhere like I was sitting on the subway and or I sat in the park. 00:04:43.790 --> 00:04:46.310 And even if I change it later. 00:04:46.894 --> 00:04:52.444 I like to put myself in a situation, put my character in a situation before starting that 00:04:52.444 --> 00:04:53.855 feels very like actor driven. 00:04:53.855 --> 00:04:57.894 That reminds me of yeah, maybe I I spoke about it before doing improv. 00:04:58.555 --> 00:04:58.615 Yeah. 00:04:58.675 --> 00:05:02.454 And doing improv actually prompted me to get back into writing. 00:05:02.514 --> 00:05:02.875 Oh, that's great. 00:05:02.875 --> 00:05:04.060 Which was really interesting. 00:05:04.764 --> 00:05:05.904 But yeah, that sounds like that. 00:05:05.904 --> 00:05:11.365 It's okay, have a place, have a setting, have an action, have an object, have a dialogue. 00:05:11.675 --> 00:05:13.774 It's all right if you improv your way in. 00:05:14.045 --> 00:05:15.245 Ooh, that's a good one. 00:05:20.211 --> 00:05:30.012 So most of your books were written contemporarily to the time, other than Swana in Love, how was it going back in time and setting it in a different time period? 00:05:31.041 --> 00:05:33.562 My first book, my main character's 19. 00:05:34.221 --> 00:05:39.411 And I was 26, 27 when it got published. 00:05:40.041 --> 00:05:42.802 And then, yeah, they went up in age from there for sure. 00:05:42.802 --> 00:05:43.041 And then 00:05:43.041 --> 00:05:43.762 down and then 00:05:43.762 --> 00:05:45.562 Swana is 14. 00:05:46.081 --> 00:05:48.632 a lot of thought was put into. 00:05:49.982 --> 00:05:53.072 How old she should be and when it should take place. 00:05:53.072 --> 00:06:01.002 And the parents are criminally negligent, so it had to take place before now because they would be in jail. 00:06:01.002 --> 00:06:01.992 They'd just be in trouble. 00:06:02.831 --> 00:06:06.372 So it had to take place in the seventies or eighties. 00:06:06.422 --> 00:06:10.081 And then I made her 14. 00:06:10.112 --> 00:06:11.012 I really. 00:06:11.942 --> 00:06:15.752 Deliberated about making her older, making her younger. 00:06:16.182 --> 00:06:20.141 She has a younger brother and I didn't want her to be too much older than the younger brother. 00:06:20.151 --> 00:06:30.742 And it's important that she loses her virginity in this book, and I thought that a girl like this would not be much older than 14 when she lost her virginity. 00:06:30.992 --> 00:06:34.504 So when I finally landed on 14 as her perfect age. 00:06:34.564 --> 00:06:42.004 Then I corresponded it with when I was about 14, so that's how I came up with the time. 00:06:42.665 --> 00:06:43.745 Ah, so you just went back. 00:06:43.745 --> 00:06:45.605 Did you keep journals when you were younger? 00:06:45.904 --> 00:06:46.415 I did. 00:06:46.415 --> 00:06:59.824 I obsessively kept journals and then my mother read them when I was 13 and I threw them down the incinerator in my building and I still dream about them. 00:06:59.975 --> 00:07:03.095 If I could do anything again, it would be not do that. 00:07:03.394 --> 00:07:09.384 I wish so much I had those back and I beg my kids to keep a journal and of course they don't. 00:07:09.384 --> 00:07:17.365 And when I talk to anybody who says that they wanna write a book and they're a kid I beg them to keep a journal. 00:07:17.555 --> 00:07:19.745 It's such a shame that I don't have them. 00:07:20.615 --> 00:07:24.425 So writing in your journal is actually currently part of your practice as well? 00:07:24.430 --> 00:07:24.629 Yes. 00:07:24.629 --> 00:07:24.790 Yeah. 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:26.430 I don't go out without it. 00:07:26.430 --> 00:07:30.819 And I choose really special books from a guy in Italy. 00:07:31.129 --> 00:07:41.980 A lot of writers can't write unless they've read first for an hour or two, or, people have different things that they have to do before they write, and it's my way in. 00:07:41.980 --> 00:07:54.009 I just write anything in my diary to get started in a writing session and it gets the bad stuff out of my head, and then I'm ready to sit down and work on my computer. 00:07:54.430 --> 00:07:59.139 So I write down dreams, I write down ideas for scenes all the time. 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:00.279 Oh, cool. 00:08:00.310 --> 00:08:10.040 Yeah, I can't imagine not having my journal with me as a writer, I really recommend that to anybody who wants to write like it's not All right, it's not All right. 00:08:10.225 --> 00:08:11.274 Not to have a journal. 00:08:12.134 --> 00:08:12.285 Yeah. 00:08:12.285 --> 00:08:13.904 Let's do a, it's not All right. 00:08:14.954 --> 00:08:15.615 Podcast. 00:08:15.899 --> 00:08:16.199 Yeah, 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:16.620 that'll be the 00:08:16.620 --> 00:08:17.279 companion. 00:08:17.334 --> 00:08:17.574 That's 00:08:17.574 --> 00:08:18.444 more my speed. 00:08:18.475 --> 00:08:25.254 I got in trouble the other day because I told Jennifer that I had written on my phone, I'd written in the notes app, and she said, why? 00:08:25.254 --> 00:08:26.694 Because you didn't have your journal 00:08:28.165 --> 00:08:29.154 and is that correct? 00:08:29.185 --> 00:08:34.815 No, I just I'm so slow and my hand hurts, so I was like, I, my thoughts were coming too fast. 00:08:34.815 --> 00:08:35.566 I had to type them. 00:08:36.149 --> 00:08:42.230 So Meryl is in Jennifer's workshop and you've been in Jennifer's workshop for a bit. 00:08:42.230 --> 00:08:44.690 Mostly, since 2007. 00:08:44.690 --> 00:08:46.820 Yeah, at the, I started in the New School. 00:08:47.054 --> 00:08:50.235 And then I was like dying to get into her private workshop. 00:08:50.595 --> 00:08:54.884 And then I finally did, she finally let me in and then I wouldn't leave. 00:08:54.884 --> 00:08:55.485 I'm glad I did. 00:08:55.738 --> 00:08:56.878 I'd love to hear the story. 00:08:56.878 --> 00:08:57.273 I don't remember. 00:08:57.327 --> 00:08:58.648 I know she doesn't remember anything. 00:08:58.648 --> 00:09:02.682 I'm

always scared to let new people in, so it always takes about a year. 00:09:02.998 --> 00:09:09.597 What happened was I wanted it so desperately that I met your mother at a party and said, can I be in? 00:09:09.597 --> 00:09:12.268 I was like, I'll just be in her workshop if Jenny won't let me in. 00:09:12.298 --> 00:09:12.327 Oh, 00:09:12.327 --> 00:09:14.607 boy, that, that spurred me to action. 00:09:14.638 --> 00:09:18.677 And then Your mother called and she's, or I called her and she said Jenny really wants you. 00:09:19.326 --> 00:09:20.466 And I was like, oh, okay. 00:09:20.647 --> 00:09:20.866 Yes. 00:09:22.392 --> 00:09:24.371 So that's a method I use with everything. 00:09:24.552 --> 00:09:24.731 Oh yeah. 00:09:24.731 --> 00:09:28.331 It's almost like a sitcom when you're like, I'm getting in one way or another, 00:09:28.331 --> 00:09:29.621 Jenny really wants you. 00:09:30.221 --> 00:09:31.081 It's yes. 00:09:31.914 --> 00:09:32.095 yeah. 00:09:32.095 --> 00:09:34.524 What has it brought to you and to your life? 00:09:34.804 --> 00:09:39.784 I seeing somebody who had done this, I was 25 at the time. 00:09:39.825 --> 00:09:41.105 And, I loved her books. 00:09:41.105 --> 00:09:43.875 I'd read three of them by the time I met you. 00:09:44.174 --> 00:09:47.294 And they both, they all came to me in weird ways. 00:09:47.294 --> 00:09:51.554 Like my friend Amy Harsuvonnegat gave me Going Down she's like, you'll like this. 00:09:51.975 --> 00:09:56.955 And then I met this guy near Washington Square Park who was selling books on the street. 00:09:57.274 --> 00:09:59.914 And he gave me High Maintenance or sold me High Maintenance. 00:09:59.914 --> 00:10:01.955 He's like, oh, the author's always coming by here. 00:10:02.004 --> 00:10:05.394 And then I was walking by the New School and I saw her name in the catalog. 00:10:05.394 --> 00:10:07.105 I'm like, oh my God, this is meant to be. 00:10:07.764 --> 00:10:08.154 Yeah, 00:10:08.154 --> 00:10:09.684 I never knew any of this. 00:10:10.225 --> 00:10:12.235 Yeah, it feels very ordained or like destined. 00:10:12.235 --> 00:10:12.715 Very, yeah. 00:10:13.434 --> 00:10:19.375 And so I've since written two books and starting a third under her auspices. 00:10:20.394 --> 00:10:20.725 Yeah. 00:10:20.725 --> 00:10:21.534 And they're great. 00:10:26.783 --> 00:10:32.932 What would you say is the, what sets your workshop apart or what's your method for running this workshop? 00:10:33.472 --> 00:10:35.783 We work very hard. 00:10:35.783 --> 00:10:38.932 We're very critical and we have a lot of fun. 00:10:38.962 --> 00:10:56.952 We laugh a lot and we bring in a lot of pages I think what sets it apart is the lack of rules In a lot of workshops, there are rules, like you can't say anything bad about the work or the person can't defend himself or his pages. 00:10:57.503 --> 00:10:58.793 We don't have any rules like that. 00:10:58.793 --> 00:10:59.513 We don't have time. 00:10:59.562 --> 00:11:05.447 We really tear things to shreds and we try to make things better. 00:11:06.418 --> 00:11:09.388 If you're reading pages, you can say anything you want about those pages. 00:11:09.388 --> 00:11:12.613 You can defend them up and down because I really feel like. 00:11:13.482 --> 00:11:21.942 We get to what we wanna say sometimes when we're making those defensive remarks and we say what we're trying to do in the pages. 00:11:21.942 --> 00:11:26.802 So I think those rules that a lot of workshops have don't help at all. 00:11:26.852 --> 00:11:33.513 We're not a support group although we can be very supportive, but we're all there to be published. 00:11:33.513 --> 00:11:38.673 We're all pretty commercially minded and we really care about good writing. 00:11:39.493 --> 00:11:44.952 During COVID, I, when we moved to Zoom, I started to invite famous agents to come and talk to us. 00:11:44.952 --> 00:11:50.023 And since then we've gotten some book deals and that sets us apart also. 00:11:50.052 --> 00:11:52.633 'cause we really try to get people published. 00:11:52.993 --> 00:11:53.773 That's amazing. 00:11:53.773 --> 00:11:54.283 Yeah. 00:11:54.283 --> 00:11:55.543 It's been really great. 00:11:55.923 --> 00:12:00.072 And I feel like, when you say these things, it seems so, simple. 00:12:00.133 --> 00:12:04.722 You're like, we're there to, we're there because we like writing, we're there to, actually make the work better. 00:12:04.722 --> 00:12:07.663 But it's funny how you get in other spaces. 00:12:08.072 --> 00:12:11.102 'Cause yeah, the group makes the workshop work, 00:12:11.493 --> 00:12:12.092 so Yes, it does. 00:12:12.092 --> 00:12:16.082 And also in my workshop we read every single week. 00:12:16.273 --> 00:12:24.043 So in other workshops that I've been in, it's your turn once a month or it's your turn once a semester or twice a semester. 00:12:24.957 --> 00:12:26.668 You're bringing in work every single week. 00:12:26.668 --> 00:12:28.707 So the deadline is a big part of it. 00:12:28.758 --> 00:12:31.158 Just that your writing helps. 00:12:31.368 --> 00:12:33.197 That's why I'm always like Wednesday and Thursday. 00:12:33.197 --> 00:12:33.437 No. 00:12:33.618 --> 00:12:34.248 Yeah, 00:12:34.248 --> 00:12:34.937 exactly. 00:12:34.988 --> 00:12:40.427 It puts you in a pretty professional schedule, so that sets it apart too, and also that we never stop. 00:12:40.427 --> 00:12:44.113 It's just ongoing and it's a lifestyle choice. 00:12:44.692 --> 00:12:45.857 That feels, it feels very. 00:12:47.107 --> 00:12:47.408 I don't know. 00:12:47.408 --> 00:12:48.668 It feels very renaissance, 00:12:48.951 --> 00:12:53.181 I think it's very 1920s and Paris kind of 00:12:53.181 --> 00:12:53.270 thing. 00:12:53.270 --> 00:12:53.961 That's what I was thinking. 00:12:53.961 --> 00:13:01.316 that la Boham, like I was thinking like the Harlem Renaissance and Yeah, and all the writers just, it really 00:13:01.316 --> 00:13:03.235 felt like that during COVID too, because.

00:13:03.775 --> 00:13:04.975 We were working, 00:13:05.336 --> 00:13:06.865 it was a lifeline during COVID. 00:13:06.865 --> 00:13:07.855 It was like, yeah, 00:13:07.855 --> 00:13:10.285 We were working and we just didn't stop. 00:13:10.285 --> 00:13:13.676 And a lot of us finished whole books during that time. 00:13:14.515 --> 00:13:14.755 Yeah. 00:13:14.875 --> 00:13:16.140 So you've finished a, including me. 00:13:16.140 --> 00:13:16.221 Yeah. 00:13:16.225 --> 00:13:16.405 Yeah. 00:13:16.436 --> 00:13:20.275 Do you wanna talk about the process of how COVID changed your writing or, 00:13:20.426 --> 00:13:24.270 I was forced to go to my country house with my family and. 00:13:24.691 --> 00:13:33.410 I hated it so much, My kids were on Zoom school and I had never even been in the house for 14 days and we went for 14 weeks. 00:13:33.870 --> 00:13:36.931 And I wrote, I just wrote all the time to get away from 00:13:36.931 --> 00:13:37.530 those people. 00:13:37.591 --> 00:13:37.951 Yeah. 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.421 I hadn't published in a long time and I hadn't really wanted to publish. 00:13:41.421 --> 00:13:45.461 I thought I was done or I was just, I was writing, but I wasn't. 00:13:45.880 --> 00:13:48.280 I wasn't driven to finish anything. 00:13:48.640 --> 00:13:53.380 I was working on something that just maybe I just wasn't motivated to finish. 00:13:53.380 --> 00:14:01.010 And then during COVID, somebody gave me this book True Grit, which I had never read, and I just fell in love with this book. 00:14:01.010 --> 00:14:09.020 It just inspired me so much that this writer, Charles Portis, could have this 14-year-old character, a girl. 00:14:09.591 --> 00:14:13.250 Set out to avenge the murder of her father. 00:14:13.311 --> 00:14:17.240 And I don't know, I just thought if he can do it, I can do it. 00:14:17.301 --> 00:14:19.880 And I did it during COVID. 00:14:20.008 --> 00:14:28.918 I remember one of the things you were struggling with this book was to have'cause it main character is 14, but to have her be older and look back and you ended Oh. 00:14:28.918 --> 00:14:29.788 Whether or not to do 00:14:29.788 --> 00:14:30.057 that. 00:14:30.057 --> 00:14:30.898 Yeah, I tried. 00:14:31.572 --> 00:14:35.942 Some alternate first and last chapters where she's an adult. 00:14:36.462 --> 00:14:41.503 Like that book Who Will Run The Frog Hospital by Lori Moore, which is a great book. 00:14:41.602 --> 00:14:44.263 It was another book, a model book for this book. 00:14:44.722 --> 00:14:55.283 She starts out as an adult in a cafe with her husband, and then you flash back for the whole duration of the book to something that happens to her one summer and then. 00:14:55.582 --> 00:15:14.133 It ends with her back in that cafe with her husband, and I decided against it ultimately because it just, it didn't really feel pure to the book, when I first attempted the other, the alternative idea of starting with her as an adult and ending with her as an adult. 00:15:14.643 --> 00:15:16.773 Those were sort of isolated chapters. 00:15:16.773 --> 00:15:28.893 But what Lori Moore did so brilliantly in her book Who Will Run The Frog Hospital, is there were just these little moments all through the book where we're aware that she's looking back, but very seamlessly. 00:15:28.893 --> 00:15:30.048 And I didn't want that at all. 00:15:30.048 --> 00:15:33.827 I really wanted to lose myself in the 14-year-old voice. 00:15:33.888 --> 00:15:35.447 So that was the choice I made. 00:15:36.918 --> 00:15:40.187 And then this book is also takes place within eight days. 00:15:40.427 --> 00:15:44.868 How was that to how that was a shorter period than any of your other books, right? 00:15:44.868 --> 00:15:45.648 Oh, by far. 00:15:45.648 --> 00:15:45.947 Yeah. 00:15:45.947 --> 00:15:49.368 My, my first couple of books take place in a year. 00:15:49.467 --> 00:15:54.447 Each'cause I couldn't figure out, I just technically couldn't figure out how to do anything other than that. 00:15:55.123 --> 00:16:01.062 And then one book took place over four or five years, and that felt like a revelation. 00:16:01.633 --> 00:16:05.273 And I had always wanted to write a book that took place in a short amount of time. 00:16:05.273 --> 00:16:11.918 'cause I always admired that so much like Catcher in the Rye or True Grit takes place in a very short period of time. 00:16:11.918 --> 00:16:14.798 But then it flash forwards at the end to a sort of epilogue. 00:16:15.663 --> 00:16:17.533 I didn't think I could do it, but I just did it. 00:16:17.888 --> 00:16:26.745 You have to track breakfast, lunch and dinner and uh, you just have to have real a lot of control over your time you have to stay in the narration. 00:16:26.745 --> 00:16:30.490 You, you can't obviously jump ahead, but you can have a ton of flashbacks. 00:16:30.490 --> 00:16:31.091 Of course. 00:16:31.370 --> 00:16:31.760 I'm. 00:16:32.436 --> 00:16:34.586 Impressed when writers play with time. 00:16:34.586 --> 00:16:40.625 'cause you can both condense and extend time in, in books and especially in a novel that's only eight days. 00:16:40.836 --> 00:16:42.696 I feel like I forgot that was happening. 00:16:42.796 --> 00:16:42.916 Yeah. 00:16:42.916 --> 00:16:48.975 There's a girl in the workshop right now who's writing a book that she announced would take place over about a year. 00:16:49.995 --> 00:16:54.676 And she's on like page 60 of one scene. 00:16:54.725 --> 00:16:57.666 And I'm like, I don't think your book's gonna take place in a year. 00:16:57.666 --> 00:17:02.916 because it is 60 pages and we're on night one and they haven't gotten to the movies yet. 00:17:03.306 --> 00:17:08.320 So she realized, oh yeah, it's gonna take place in a week. 00:17:09.721 --> 00:17:12.435 Are you a kind of person who thinks. 00:17:12.681 --> 00:17:16.101 Can the work dictate the form and time Oh, of 00:17:16.101 --> 00:17:17.121 course it has to. 00:17:17.490 --> 00:17:18.840 You have to tell the

story, 00:17:18.961 --> 00:17:19.351 right? 00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:21.121 And Absolutely. 00:17:21.121 --> 00:17:21.330 Yeah. 00:17:21.330 --> 00:17:29.925 You have to see what all we do is talk about what serves the book, so of course the time period has to serve the book and the duration. 00:17:31.066 --> 00:17:31.816 Absolutely. 00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:35.580 So Ariana has just started writing her first novel. 00:17:36.391 --> 00:17:36.631 That's great. 00:17:36.631 --> 00:17:40.017 Any any suggestions on how she might go about that? 00:17:40.557 --> 00:17:42.416 Yes, I have suggestions. 00:17:42.467 --> 00:17:49.067 I think you should sink into a character who's not unlike yourself if you don't have one in mind already. 00:17:49.666 --> 00:17:58.217 And then instead of knowing your whole plot or outlining, which if I had to outline, I would've never written one single word. 00:17:58.781 --> 00:18:05.541 Just let your character have little tiny adventures that I think of as scenes. 00:18:06.172 --> 00:18:09.951 And don't write in order. 00:18:09.981 --> 00:18:12.142 Don't write, don't start at the beginning. 00:18:12.451 --> 00:18:17.942 Start in the middle and just sink in and see what happens. 00:18:18.106 --> 00:18:18.676 Thank you. 00:18:18.676 --> 00:18:19.037 Yeah. 00:18:19.037 --> 00:18:26.366 I was trying to give myself a page deadline of what did we say, 50 pages by the first day of summer. 00:18:26.366 --> 00:18:30.606 And I find myself just writing little snippets and I'm like, they don't really go together. 00:18:30.606 --> 00:18:32.317 And I've been like, no. 00:18:32.317 --> 00:18:34.176 Yeah, if you have 60 pages, beating myself up about pages that are 00:18:34.176 --> 00:18:36.336 totally random or feel all over the place. 00:18:36.336 --> 00:18:36.997 That's great. 00:18:36.997 --> 00:18:38.106 That's still amazing. 00:18:38.247 --> 00:18:41.156 Well, It's that sinking thing in thing I keep talking about. 00:18:41.207 --> 00:18:48.317 When you write short stories, not only do you have to come up with new plots, but you have to come up with whole new main characters and names. 00:18:48.676 --> 00:18:57.136 Takes me 25 years to name a character and you keep changing things up so much that becomes part of the challenge. 00:18:58.007 --> 00:19:02.537 So with a novel, you're just living with these people for a very long time. 00:19:03.355 --> 00:19:09.535 I think that was one of my thoughts was a couple of my stories that I really was loving and I was working on. 00:19:09.954 --> 00:19:12.625 I started to think, actually this is the same person. 00:19:13.224 --> 00:19:14.634 In some of them like the same. 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:15.180 Of course it's, yeah. 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:21.174 And I was like, maybe this is one bigger story and I'm having trouble because it's too small. 00:19:21.234 --> 00:19:21.714 Yeah. 00:19:22.085 --> 00:19:25.494 And people worry that they don't know what they wanna write about or. 00:19:26.170 --> 00:19:27.250 They don't have a big plot. 00:19:27.250 --> 00:19:31.089 Or if I had to have a plot or a big point, I never would've written anything. 00:19:31.089 --> 00:19:34.839 I just had this tremendous desire to express myself. 00:19:34.869 --> 00:19:39.339 I had been an actress and I was really frustrated being in other people's plays. 00:19:39.339 --> 00:19:45.720 And I would I loved auditioning'cause it was my two minute little show that I was in control of. 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.839 And then I would get in a play and I would just think, oh no. 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:58.400 And, and then when I started writing, I just, I could just work, I could just express myself, which I wanted to do so badly. 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:09.829 So that's really the requirement is to want to express yourself and then how you do that will come and what you say will come. 00:20:15.618 --> 00:20:21.598 When I was in Jenny's new school workshop for the first semester, she gave out prompts and I still remember some of them like. 00:20:22.138 --> 00:20:26.429 How much is in your bank account, how you like to be kissed other stuff. 00:20:26.669 --> 00:20:30.239 And so I would just write the scene based on three words. 00:20:30.298 --> 00:20:34.828 And at the end of the semester, I had 86 pages that were all over the place. 00:20:35.068 --> 00:20:38.159 And then I was like, all right, I have to figure out how these all go together. 00:20:38.368 --> 00:20:39.749 And it took me like 20 years. 00:20:40.288 --> 00:20:41.578 I can give prompts again. 00:20:41.669 --> 00:20:43.108 Yeah, i'd love that. 00:20:44.219 --> 00:20:45.324 How do you come up with your prompt? 00:20:47.413 --> 00:20:47.743 Right. 00:20:47.749 --> 00:20:48.088 I don't know. 00:20:48.088 --> 00:21:00.392 There's no particular way just what I think would feed a scene, like for the one she just mentioned, I think was called what you see at the ATM, because that's Important. 00:21:00.692 --> 00:21:08.507 It's a great way to feel emotion or to raise the stakes in a scene is to worry, have money running out. 00:21:08.551 --> 00:21:13.021 Yeah, is a great thing for some characters to have to grapple with. 00:21:13.352 --> 00:21:16.771 And it sets you at a place so you're not just I have this much money. 00:21:16.771 --> 00:21:18.511 You're like with the character. 00:21:18.511 --> 00:21:18.602 Right? 00:21:18.602 --> 00:21:18.692 And 00:21:18.692 --> 00:21:25.531 then the idea of the prompts, like one of the prompts is your mother's closet and the idea is to just riff on it. 00:21:25.531 --> 00:21:35.221 So maybe you think about a time your father gave your mother something and your, and then they had a big fight and then you end up writing about your parents' divorce. 00:21:35.957 --> 00:21:40.297 It's not literally your mother's closet, it's whatever that prompt gives to you. 00:21:40.777 --> 00:21:43.596 Do you find yourself writing to these prompts when you give them out 00:21:43.905 -->

00:21:48.500 Everything that I tell anybody I do myself. 00:21:48.550 --> 00:21:51.891 Of course I'm, we're just writing for our lives here, we're. 00:21:52.726 --> 00:22:00.046 We're all struggling to just get through this very crazy, stupid hard, wonderful experience of writing. 00:22:05.201 --> 00:22:13.753 Have you ever taken advice from another writer or teacher that you felt really affected you in some way? 00:22:13.804 --> 00:22:15.753 I think the answer is no, actually. 00:22:15.804 --> 00:22:19.344 I feel like I learned everything I know from watching. 00:22:19.344 --> 00:22:31.324 I love Lucy and Carol Brunette and Saturday Night Live and sitcoms like Meryl and I have sitcoms in common and reading, just. 00:22:32.388 --> 00:22:33.858 Meryl's a big reader too. 00:22:33.909 --> 00:22:39.308 She and I just read a book called All Fours by Miranda July and we both really liked it a lot. 00:22:39.909 --> 00:22:43.328 And so we had a lot of conversations about it. 00:22:43.828 --> 00:22:49.888 And I think we learned from that book we learned to try to push ourselves to be raw. 00:22:50.578 --> 00:22:52.558 And I think that book really. 00:22:53.189 --> 00:22:59.128 Will inspire some good writing from us, but I didn't take any advice from Miranda July. 00:22:59.568 --> 00:23:00.344 You took it from the work? 00:23:00.344 --> 00:23:01.848 From the work, yeah. 00:23:01.898 --> 00:23:06.078 I'm not against taking advice, but I just don't, I don't think I have actually. 00:23:06.078 --> 00:23:08.364 I think I'm pretty independent in this process. 00:23:09.134 --> 00:23:17.864 But I have a lot of writer friends and there's nothing I like more than hanging out and talking about writing but I don't think we really give each other advice. 00:23:17.864 --> 00:23:23.953 I think we, we do commiserate and we do, we, I find we actually have quite similar processes. 00:23:24.173 --> 00:23:29.993 you're synthesizing everything, the writing that you read, the shows you watch. 00:23:30.023 --> 00:23:32.304 That's, I use my real life all the time. 00:23:32.304 --> 00:23:33.683 That's where the prompts come from. 00:23:33.763 --> 00:23:38.624 Like I probably wrote that prompt about the ATM after, particularly horrifying moment at the atm. 00:23:39.884 --> 00:23:43.934 I don't remember, but I'm sure that I experienced that and thought this is. 00:23:44.189 --> 00:23:46.558 F this is what I need to do in my writing. 00:23:46.648 --> 00:23:46.858 Yeah. 00:23:46.858 --> 00:23:49.074 Is have my character freak out over money. 00:23:50.278 --> 00:23:57.848 Sometimes I used to'cause some people leave their receipts and I used to, I always like to look at the receipts to see how much money people have Of course. 00:23:58.118 --> 00:23:59.588 Make up stories about them. 00:23:59.588 --> 00:23:59.648 See, 00:23:59.648 --> 00:24:01.114 That's such a great character quirk. 00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:08.779 So your books have a lot of great sex scenes. 00:24:08.809 --> 00:24:09.470 How do you 00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:10.359 they do? 00:24:10.930 --> 00:24:12.319 very yeah, rich. 00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:19.535 My first book is about a hooker and I think it's been called the only book about prostitution with no sex in it, 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:21.890 which is crazy'cause I wouldn't remember that. 00:24:21.890 --> 00:24:24.680 There's no sex in it'cause it feels sexual. 00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:27.720 There's sex, but she's adding up money in her mind the whole time. 00:24:28.299 --> 00:24:28.809 Right. 00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.559 My new book has, I think it has some real sex scenes. 00:24:32.609 --> 00:24:34.769 What is your question about sex scenes, Meryl? 00:24:35.910 --> 00:24:35.913 I don't know. 00:24:35.970 --> 00:24:36.809 I like them. 00:24:36.859 --> 00:24:42.740 How do you approach writing sex in novels that are not, and also writing sex in a way that. 00:24:43.789 --> 00:24:54.105 I don't wanna call it literary, but when you read sex in a quote unquote literary fiction versus a romance novel, there is some differences, I would say, it. 00:24:54.109 --> 00:24:55.170 how do you write literary sex? 00:24:55.700 --> 00:24:58.250 I've never read a romance book, so I don't know. 00:24:58.400 --> 00:24:58.789 All right. 00:24:58.910 --> 00:25:02.194 I write it the way it would happen. 00:25:04.130 --> 00:25:06.734 It's like anything else, like going to the atm? 00:25:07.069 --> 00:25:07.369 I don't know. 00:25:07.369 --> 00:25:09.339 I get I know I'm like I don't know. 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:15.891 I'm not a square, but I do get like weird sometimes when I'm reading sex scenes or even if I'm trying to write them where you're like. 00:25:16.805 --> 00:25:19.625 Do I put that detail in or I'm like, oh, is this corny? 00:25:19.625 --> 00:25:20.765 Is this I don't know. 00:25:20.894 --> 00:25:26.085 We've had some hilarious sex scene moments at the workshop over the years. 00:25:26.085 --> 00:25:26.265 We 00:25:26.265 --> 00:25:29.025 all like Mo, most of us like to write about sex. 00:25:29.085 --> 00:25:29.734 Oh my God. 00:25:29.805 --> 00:25:30.174 Especially 00:25:30.194 --> 00:25:31.005 during COVID. 00:25:31.005 --> 00:25:33.164 Everybody was writing sex left and right. 00:25:33.194 --> 00:25:34.035 Really? 00:25:34.065 --> 00:25:35.174 It was crazy. 00:25:35.174 --> 00:25:37.815 Nobody was having it, but everybody was writing it. 00:25:39.095 --> 00:25:40.805 I was having a lot of sex with my shower head. 00:25:41.075 --> 00:25:41.855 Yeah. 00:25:42.005 --> 00:25:43.835 Meryl likes to write about masturbation. 00:25:43.865 --> 00:25:45.724 I do not like to write about that. 00:25:46.234 --> 00:25:48.994 But you did one and I think, which one was it? 00:25:48.994 --> 00:25:49.805 With the Grim Reaper. 00:25:50.714 --> 00:25:50.865 I 00:25:51.255 --> 00:25:51.765 don't remember, 00:25:52.289 --> 00:25:54.315 but I will say 00:25:54.375 --> 00:26:08.335 that my friend who's a writer, Arthur Nersesian who

Meryl's friends with too, he wrote the book The Fuck Up, and he's written 14 novels and he says that a book has to hit all the chakras. 00:26:08.605 --> 00:26:13.404 Ooh, it has he, he says if a book doesn't give him at least one hard on, it's not a good book. 00:26:13.829 --> 00:26:14.529 So I think of that 00:26:14.529 --> 00:26:15.289 hundred percent agree. 00:26:15.535 --> 00:26:16.884 I think of that for Arthur. 00:26:16.884 --> 00:26:19.964 I try to give Arthur at least one erection per novel. 00:26:25.894 --> 00:26:33.503 In a first person book you have to be very intimate with the reader and you have to decide when is it's too much information. 00:26:33.554 --> 00:26:37.243 Because you don't wanna be a naval gazer or whatever that phrase is. 00:26:37.433 --> 00:26:44.663 You don't wanna discuss every single inch of your body, but you want the reader to feel like a part of you. 00:26:45.233 --> 00:26:48.864 So you have to, that's just, that's where a workshop can be very helpful. 00:26:48.864 --> 00:26:49.489 We, we can say. 00:26:50.288 --> 00:26:51.848 Meryl, it's too much. 00:26:51.909 --> 00:26:54.398 But we never have, we never, we've never said that yet. 00:26:54.398 --> 00:26:54.401 Not yet. 00:26:54.554 --> 00:26:54.894 Not yet. 00:26:54.909 --> 00:26:54.969 We're 00:26:54.999 --> 00:26:55.778 still working on it. 00:26:57.068 --> 00:26:59.169 But I remember when I was, you never will young. 00:26:59.169 --> 00:27:05.798 My my parents would read me like Heidi or whatever books they were reading me, and I would ask them, when do they go to the bathroom? 00:27:06.068 --> 00:27:06.459 Right. 00:27:06.459 --> 00:27:07.058 There you go. 00:27:07.058 --> 00:27:08.739 So then they would add that in. 00:27:08.979 --> 00:27:11.949 My father would add in and then Heidi went to the bathroom. 00:27:12.278 --> 00:27:12.578 Okay. 00:27:12.578 --> 00:27:13.179 That's really weird. 00:27:14.528 --> 00:27:15.068 That's cute. 00:27:15.068 --> 00:27:16.269 But with Swanna in Love. 00:27:16.513 --> 00:27:29.624 This writer I know named Marilyn Rothstein, who wrote a great book called Crazy to Leave You and husband's another Sharp Objects, and her new book is called Who Loves You Best. 00:27:30.104 --> 00:27:35.403 She read my book and she said to me your character is obsessed with pee. 00:27:35.703 --> 00:27:37.084 There's just too much pee. 00:27:37.084 --> 00:27:40.709 There's, and I thought that was the stupidest thing I ever heard in my life, and I. 00:27:41.453 --> 00:27:51.804 Read the book again, and she's 14 and she's worried about where she's gonna go to the bathroom, and she's worried about her little brother wetting himself. 00:27:52.493 --> 00:27:54.874 But there was a lot about pee. 00:27:54.953 --> 00:27:56.034 So I took some out. 00:27:57.394 --> 00:27:58.473 but it's a road trip. 00:27:58.473 --> 00:28:01.503 And all you do on a road trip is worry about the next time you're gonna pee. 00:28:01.554 --> 00:28:01.864 Truly. 00:28:01.868 --> 00:28:03.104 But she was very disturbed. 00:28:03.810 --> 00:28:13.171 I did take out several pee references, so if you want more pee in my book, you can blame Marilyn Rothstein for that one 00:28:13.171 --> 00:28:14.310 more pee in the book. 00:28:19.365 --> 00:28:25.846 One thing we wanted to touch on, is it the exciting news that your book Swanna in Love is going to become a movie? 00:28:26.026 --> 00:28:26.986 Yes. 00:28:27.030 --> 00:28:27.891 That's so great! 00:28:27.911 --> 00:28:28.131 Yes. 00:28:28.516 --> 00:28:30.046 We're saying it here first. 00:28:30.046 --> 00:28:30.736 Yay. 00:28:30.816 --> 00:28:44.346 A great screenwriter named Liz Tigelaar, who wrote, she adapted Little Fires Everywhere and tiny, Beautiful Objects or whatever that, that, I guess those are well done. 00:28:44.455 --> 00:28:45.385 She's really good. 00:28:45.385 --> 00:29:02.185 Yeah, and she apparently, she claims, I hard to believe Hollywood people ever, but she claims that she has a tradition of going to Cabo with a bunch of girlfriends and reading one of my books every few years. 00:29:02.665 --> 00:29:08.766 And she went to book soup in LA and she said I wish there was a new Jennifer Bell book. 00:29:08.796 --> 00:29:10.040 And the guy said, there is. 00:29:11.135 --> 00:29:28.605 So she took my book with her friends to Cabo and apparently they read it out loud and then she optioned it and she put it together with a great producer likely story productions and it looks like it could happen, but it also could not happen. 00:29:28.605 --> 00:29:29.115 We don't know. 00:29:29.175 --> 00:29:29.655 knock wood. 00:29:29.776 --> 00:29:30.286 Yeah. 00:29:30.885 --> 00:29:34.365 So where are you in the process when these things happen? 00:29:34.365 --> 00:29:35.326 I'm very curious. 00:29:35.355 --> 00:29:39.976 In the past I've always been the writer and now I'm not the writer 00:29:40.306 --> 00:29:43.695 at three of your books have been optioned or before all of them. 00:29:43.695 --> 00:29:44.596 All of them have been optioned. 00:29:44.596 --> 00:29:46.486 The first book was optioned. 00:29:47.010 --> 00:29:48.570 27 times. 00:29:48.641 --> 00:29:56.230 First by Madonna and then by a company called Muse Films, and I was the writer for all the different options. 00:29:56.651 --> 00:30:01.721 Did you have to change it based on every person you were working with or you just kept the same script? 00:30:02.211 --> 00:30:06.431 Yeah, the first option was with Madonna and she was gonna be the director. 00:30:06.520 --> 00:30:06.790 Wow. 00:30:06.820 --> 00:30:12.540 So it, it was under her direction, I had to have meetings with her and discuss every little thing with her. 00:30:13.080 --> 00:30:16.300 And it had to be, to her approval. 00:30:16.421 --> 00:30:28.361 And then there were all kinds of different directors and different actors, with High Maintenance, first it was optioned by HBO and then it was optioned by Fox 2000. 00:30:28.361 --> 00:30:32.171 So those

were two totally different scripts and those were series. 00:30:32.750 --> 00:30:33.590 So that was different. 00:30:33.590 --> 00:30:36.800 That was a totally different experience and great. 00:30:36.800 --> 00:30:37.851 I loved it so much. 00:30:37.961 --> 00:30:39.911 So with this, I'm nothing. 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:43.480 I'm just, i'm an executive producer, which means nothing. 00:30:43.530 --> 00:30:45.151 But I'm excited anyway. 00:30:45.181 --> 00:30:47.641 we have to ask, how was Madonna? 00:30:47.641 --> 00:30:52.320 Oh, I was like, I was gonna interrupt you before, but I was like, how was working with Madonna? 00:30:52.381 --> 00:30:59.840 It was very fun and exciting and she is very respectful as a collaborator. 00:30:59.871 --> 00:31:04.191 She always acted like I was an expert and I knew what I was doing. 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:07.480 She was extremely demanding. 00:31:07.540 --> 00:31:11.020 And I think that's because she's very demanding of herself. 00:31:11.431 --> 00:31:23.661 I would have a meeting with her and I would think to myself in my mind, okay, now I'm gonna go out to lunch and I'm gonna lie in bed for the rest of the day and I'd be walking out the door and I'd literally be fantasizing about lunch. 00:31:23.661 --> 00:31:28.881 And she would say, so can I have these pages by four o'clock because I'm flying. 00:31:29.211 --> 00:31:31.401 At four and I wanna read them on the plane. 00:31:31.451 --> 00:31:45.010 I would just be dumbfounded I was breathless being in her presence, and then I'm supposed to actually go home to my tenement apartment and write a huge amount of work by four o'clock. 00:31:45.010 --> 00:31:45.191 It was. 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:48.611 But I, she wasn't being a bitch. 00:31:48.611 --> 00:31:51.020 She was just that's what she would've done. 00:31:51.320 --> 00:31:51.681 Right. 00:31:51.921 --> 00:31:52.191 Which, 00:31:52.191 --> 00:32:00.895 so it was a constant it was just a constant grind because she just wanted so much and got so much. 00:32:02.105 --> 00:32:04.385 That's a testament to like her legacy. 00:32:04.655 --> 00:32:05.256 That makes sense. 00:32:05.260 --> 00:32:06.840 She had great ideas. 00:32:06.881 --> 00:32:09.401 She didn't take the time to explain her ideas. 00:32:09.941 --> 00:32:11.830 Like she would say, this beginning doesn't work. 00:32:11.830 --> 00:32:12.671 And I'd say, why? 00:32:12.671 --> 00:32:16.151 And I'd give her 10 reasons why it worked so well and why she was wrong. 00:32:16.151 --> 00:32:17.471 And she's no, it just doesn't work. 00:32:17.530 --> 00:32:23.786 And I never knew if it was because she was Madonna and she didn't feel she had to explain herself, or if she just. 00:32:24.490 --> 00:32:28.151 Or she didn't know how to explain herself if she wasn't analytical in that way. 00:32:28.151 --> 00:32:34.780 But I would sit up in bed a couple of days later and realize 10 reasons why she was exactly right. 00:32:35.020 --> 00:32:41.351 And that happened over

and over again that she was right and I would have to figure it out on my own. 00:32:41.381 --> 00:32:45.361 She didn't explain it to me, but she was great to work for. 00:32:45.810 --> 00:32:47.131 She was a little bit. 00:32:47.461 --> 00:32:52.691 Unrealistic about no, she was actually, she was, I would say the opposite. 00:32:52.691 --> 00:32:55.810 She was overly realistic about money. 00:32:55.810 --> 00:33:01.931 Like she would, I would write a scene that took place in Grand Central Station and she'd say, no, we can't shoot there. 00:33:02.320 --> 00:33:03.671 It would be too expensive. 00:33:03.671 --> 00:33:04.451 And I think 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:05.681 she had her producer's hat on. 00:33:05.711 --> 00:33:08.020 She had the producer's hat on constantly. 00:33:08.020 --> 00:33:11.121 And I would think You're Madonna, make it happen make it happen. 00:33:11.121 --> 00:33:18.461 We'll have Grand Central Station, we'll do it at three in the, but she was very focused on having a financially viable project. 00:33:18.461 --> 00:33:23.010 She did not want her first film to be a money suck. 00:33:23.131 --> 00:33:25.215 And I did not think that way. 00:33:26.520 --> 00:33:27.740 So that was strange. 00:33:27.740 --> 00:33:29.641 But she's a business woman. 00:33:31.020 --> 00:33:44.101 That is a big thing when you're writing, like when we were writing our screenplay we had intended it for Katie's Mom to be small, but then at some point it started getting big and then we had to cut it back to small again. 00:33:44.101 --> 00:33:47.955 And that was really hard because we'd envisioned these bigger scenes, but then we had to. 00:33:49.020 --> 00:33:54.651 Yeah, Madonna ran a tight ship, we can say the whole time, but she was just, she was creative. 00:33:54.651 --> 00:34:03.171 She was, I describe her as having tentacles on the all over her body, like she was just a feeling creature. 00:34:03.861 --> 00:34:09.311 She, not particularly analytical, but so smart. 00:34:10.391 --> 00:34:15.610 Sensuous and feeling, so I really loved the experience. 00:34:21.014 --> 00:34:23.965 So this is your first novel published by Akashic. 00:34:24.324 --> 00:34:24.804 Yeah. 00:34:24.864 --> 00:34:29.574 I was with Riverhead Penguin Putnam for my last four books. 00:34:29.635 --> 00:34:33.085 And then I didn't write for a long time. 00:34:33.085 --> 00:34:49.989 And then I had some issues with this book because I, we didn't tell people what this book is about, but it's about a 14-year-old girl who has a love sex relationship with a 38-year-old married dad in 1982. 00:34:50.829 --> 00:34:56.050 And a lot of publishers were very scared of it, I think. 00:34:56.130 --> 00:35:03.184 It went around on submission right at the height of the Me Too, most heightened moment I think. 00:35:03.875 --> 00:35:07.545 And people were scared of it and I was prepared for that. 00:35:07.545 --> 00:35:14.474 And I was prepared to have conversations with publishers where they might wanna make her older or make the guy younger. 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.869 Or change it in some way because she's not a victim at all. 00:35:19.869 --> 00:35:21.130 She doesn't feel like a victim. 00:35:21.130 --> 00:35:26.530 And the books that have come out that are on this topic, the girl very much feels like a victim. 00:35:27.110 --> 00:35:37.485 Anyway, I got a lot of nos and Johnny Temple at Akashic wanted it and I just had so much respect for him. 00:35:37.485 --> 00:35:40.635 He published Arthur Nersesian and the guy I told you about. 00:35:40.684 --> 00:35:42.275 So many other great books. 00:35:42.735 --> 00:35:44.565 It's just a great independent press. 00:35:44.614 --> 00:35:45.695 So I went for it. 00:35:45.775 --> 00:35:50.244 It's been easily the best publishing experience I've ever had. 00:35:50.244 --> 00:35:54.864 It's been the most enjoyable, the most respectful, the most fun. 00:35:54.864 --> 00:35:59.800 And I've gotten great reviews and all the attention I wanted. 00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:03.429 So I just think it's a great place to publish a book. 00:36:07.833 --> 00:36:15.788 How do you manage the disappointments that come with being a writer and, you're optioning these movie deals. 00:36:15.788 --> 00:36:20.858 You have this book that has quote unquote taboo topic that these publishers didn't want. 00:36:20.858 --> 00:36:22.657 You had so many nos before you got your Yes. 00:36:22.657 --> 00:36:24.518 How do you manage that? 00:36:25.967 --> 00:36:27.467 Probably not that well. 00:36:27.467 --> 00:36:34.007 It's a miserable feeling and I see it in my workshop members trying to get agents. 00:36:34.007 --> 00:36:43.052 It's so hard to get an agent these days and probably people listening to this podcast might be trying to get an agent and there's just a firewall up. 00:36:43.052 --> 00:36:45.693 You just can't, you can't break through. 00:36:45.753 --> 00:36:47.393 And it's very unfortunate. 00:36:47.572 --> 00:36:48.952 How did I handle it? 00:36:49.003 --> 00:36:55.503 Of course I've been extremely lucky and I haven't had to face what some other people have faced. 00:36:55.503 --> 00:37:01.047 But it's not fun, it's, you have to enjoy the good times. 00:37:01.168 --> 00:37:08.487 And I, when I did get my book deal for this book, Swanna in Love, I just became determined to enjoy every single second of it. 00:37:08.907 --> 00:37:11.277 Like this podcast, like I'm just enjoying it. 00:37:11.338 --> 00:37:12.117 And that's. 00:37:12.898 --> 00:37:17.157 How you get through the hard times is trying to enjoy the good times. 00:37:17.157 --> 00:37:17.217 Yeah. 00:37:18.987 --> 00:37:21.327 Is that what we're trying to do in the 2025? 00:37:21.327 --> 00:37:22.438 This crazy year? 00:37:22.588 --> 00:37:22.648 Yeah. 00:37:22.648 --> 00:37:25.898 This is a crazy year, it's so hard to get published. 00:37:26.288 --> 00:37:31.978 All the more reason to write whatever you wanna write, and write it the way you wanna write it go for

it. 00:37:32.275 --> 00:37:33.594 and that's really hard to do. 00:37:34.164 --> 00:37:35.994 You have to get really vulnerable. 00:37:36.534 --> 00:37:36.985 Sure. 00:37:37.034 --> 00:37:37.514 It's, yeah. 00:37:37.514 --> 00:37:39.019 It's a, that's what art is. 00:37:39.019 --> 00:37:41.204 Art is, that's what art is. 00:37:41.324 --> 00:37:42.525 It's pretty vulnerable. 00:37:42.914 --> 00:37:54.210 I feel like sometimes I'm in a war with myself where, I feel what I want to say and then I write it and I'm like, that's not I'm still not saying it all I don't know, for me I'm just, yeah, it 00:37:54.210 --> 00:37:58.710 takes a really long time before you're a good judge of what you're writing. 00:37:58.710 --> 00:38:00.659 It doesn't take a long time to be a good writer. 00:38:00.659 --> 00:38:07.545 You could be a good writer right away, but it takes a long time to have a sense if, is this good or is this bad? 00:38:07.545 --> 00:38:11.715 And that's why a workshop is great because you shouldn't really be judging it that way. 00:38:11.715 --> 00:38:18.065 You should just be writing it and then giving it to reader you trust or a workshop you trust. 00:38:19.099 --> 00:38:22.519 Not trying to decide yourself if it's good or if it's bad. 00:38:23.375 --> 00:38:32.905 Now I have a sense when I write something that's not good, but for many years I wouldn't have even attempted to try to know if something was good or bad. 00:38:33.485 --> 00:38:43.085 It's interesting'cause I feel that some of my friends do write in a vacuum and they're like, oh, I'm not gonna show it to you until I've, really chiseled and I could never do that. 00:38:43.135 --> 00:38:47.125 I'm like, I on the opposite extreme, as soon as I write it, I'm like, tell me, is it good? 00:38:47.215 --> 00:38:47.664 Is it good? 00:38:48.894 --> 00:38:49.764 Maybe too much. 00:38:49.795 --> 00:38:52.135 I think that's a really good I question. 00:38:52.164 --> 00:38:59.034 'cause I do feel like there's some folks who feel like they need to be super precious of their work and they feel like that gives them the motivation. 00:38:59.215 --> 00:39:14.204 And then I was just listening, I think it's called the Harvard something, the Harvard Method, and it's mention what you're doing all the time because the theory is that you're always one connection away from meeting the person you need to meet or doing the thing that you need to do. 00:39:14.514 --> 00:39:20.275 So if you just keep mentioning what you're working on, all the connections will start to come into place. 00:39:20.304 --> 00:39:25.014 You asked me just a moment ago, how do you have a thick enough skin Yeah. 00:39:25.045 --> 00:39:35.034 For this business and being in a workshop certainly helps because you're getting practice getting notes every single week, and you're getting bad reviews every single week. 00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:35.219 It could be. 00:39:36.125 --> 00:39:49.938 You you have that support of your friends and you know, ultimately that your book is good because people have signed off on it, so I knew my book was good, and that gives you a lot of strength. 00:39:51.378 --> 00:39:51.708 Yeah. 00:39:52.967 --> 00:39:55.427 What Is it all right or not all right to do? 00:39:55.938 --> 00:39:59.177 It's all right to not know what you wanna write. 00:39:59.177 --> 00:40:04.518 It's all right to have no idea what your plot is or what your big point is. 00:40:04.907 --> 00:40:09.797 You just wanna have to have a tremendous desire to express yourself. 00:40:10.398 --> 00:40:11.538 And just go for it. 00:40:11.538 --> 00:40:15.708 So it's all right to just get started and write. 00:40:16.338 --> 00:40:16.967 Oh, I love that. 00:40:17.547 --> 00:40:19.288 Thank you so much for joining. 00:40:19.288 --> 00:40:20.273 Are you working on anything? 00:40:21.012 --> 00:40:21.463 Yeah. 00:40:21.463 --> 00:40:21.583 Now 00:40:21.583 --> 00:40:24.913 I'm writing a new novel Ooh. 00:40:25.092 --> 00:40:27.612 And Meryl's in my workshop with me. 00:40:27.612 --> 00:40:29.623 I bring it in, I bring in pages. 00:40:29.623 --> 00:40:30.583 It's a lot of fun. 00:40:31.302 --> 00:40:33.512 And yeah, we will see what happens. 00:40:33.512 --> 00:40:33.873 That's exciting. 00:40:33.873 --> 00:40:35.523 And you're gonna bang it out in Paris? 00:40:35.577 --> 00:40:39.447 I'm heading to Paris to live there for two whole months by myself. 00:40:39.538 --> 00:40:40.407 Oh, that's exciting. 00:40:40.407 --> 00:40:40.827 And I hope 00:40:40.827 --> 00:40:41.967 to do a lot of writing there. 00:40:42.208 --> 00:40:42.447 Yeah. 00:40:42.447 --> 00:40:43.827 Enjoy that for the summer. 00:40:43.887 --> 00:40:44.307 Yes. 00:40:44.367 --> 00:40:45.597 Oh, amazing. 00:40:45.657 --> 00:40:46.108 Yeah. 00:40:46.663 --> 00:40:46.963 All right. 00:40:46.963 --> 00:40:47.742 Bon Voyage. 00:40:47.742 --> 00:40:48.733 Thanks for coming 00:40:48.733 --> 00:40:50.112 Merci, thank you. 00:40:50.713 --> 00:40:52.543 And thanks for having me on your show. 00:40:57.572 --> 00:41:01.773 That's a wrap on today's episode of It's All Right With Jennifer Belle. 00:41:01.876 --> 00:41:05.126 You can find us on Instagram at It's All Write. 00:41:05.146 --> 00:41:08.905 W-R-I-T-E Pod, so it's all write. 00:41:08.925 --> 00:41:14.476 Pod on Instagram and you can also email us at itsallwritepod@gmail.com. 00:41:14.925 --> 00:41:21.405 We love to hear from you, write a review, subscribe, all those fun things that you do on the internet. 00:41:21.556 --> 00:41:22.576 Thanks so much.