TRANSKRYPCJA 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:16.879
All right, we are back.
00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:19.039
This is Creativity is the Cure.
00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:25.920
I'm your host, Malcolm Moore, and today, once again, I don't think we've talked on the podcast since 2024.
00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:29.039
This is my good friend Jonathan.
00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:31.519
Jonathan Firehawk Duplices.
00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:33.119
Did I say it correctly?
00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:39.439
Uh duplicis, if you want to go French, or duplicis, if you just want to do the English.
00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:41.439
I like your French better.
00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:43.600
Thanks, man.
00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:44.719
All right.
00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:49.280
So, Jonathan, we are here today to talk about the book that you've written.
00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:50.560
It's not published yet.
00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:57.119
It is absolutely astoundingly beautiful, and it's called Our Island Was a Forest.
00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:01.119
So tell everybody, tell everybody, what is your book about?
00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:04.879
How could you encapsulate it into two or three sentences?
00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:07.359
Well, I'll try.
00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:17.519
I'd like to say that I'm a Louisiana Creole with Syrian roots who was raised on Tongva land in Los Angeles.
00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:24.879
So the book is really about it's a vomiting up of certain ancestral trauma.
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:48.879
It is an avant-garde collection of poetry and prose that reflects my life growing up in Los Angeles as a creole, displaced person, and reckoning with that identity and trying to find my artistic voice through a lot of trauma and a lot of struggle, and eventually finding it.
00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:50.319
If that makes sense.
00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:16.400
Tell me, what does the title mean?
00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:16.960
I love it.
00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:19.199
Our island was a forest.
00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:20.800
Thank you for that question.
00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:39.439
I guess we can dissect that in many ways, but for me, I guess R, the collective R, Our Island was a forest is essentially this land that we occupy, Turtle Island, the United States, was bigger and greater than what we have inherited.
00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:39.919
Right.
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:44.639
You know, land-wise, soul-wise, intellect-wise.
00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:45.199
Yeah.
00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:52.080
You know, you can take that in a lot of ways, but I guess that's the simplest kind of way I can I can put it.
00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:54.960
We are greater than what we have inherited.
00:02:57.199 --> 00:03:03.199
I was one of the luckiest people to be able to read it right after you wrote it.
00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:12.240
And to describe to others, this is pretty wild, but these are the authors and books that it reminded me of.
00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:21.680
You don't sound exactly like them, but there's something about the voice and the vibe, and the fact that it's so unbound and brutally honest.
00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:38.719
It's fantastical, cinematic, and I gotta tell you, this book reminds me of a lot of my favorite people, like Carlos Castaneda, William Burroughs, Ane S Nin, Mark Richard, if you don't know about him, Fishboy a Ghost Story.
00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:40.080
Really made me think of that a lot.
00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:44.159
Flea's 2019 memoir, Acid for the Children.
00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:45.680
Oh my god, what a book.
00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:53.360
And then one that maybe not a lot of people know, but my mother gave to me uh when I was working in Serbia and Hungary.
00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:58.000
It's called Bury Me Standing: The Gypsies and Their Journey.
00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:03.120
And boy, your book really harkens back to this for me.
00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:05.360
If you don't know what that book is, you should check it out.
00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:07.280
I'm writing it down right now.
00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:07.680
Yeah.
00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:10.319
Even the title is just giving me goosebumps.
00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:11.199
Yeah.
00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:21.839
So I'm gonna give you a really big quote from your book, and I just want you to reflect, and I want to give people a little taste of what they'd be reading, okay?
00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:23.120
Okay.
00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:28.319
I am the living embodiment of a displaced tribe.
00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:30.160
I am a simarable.
00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:31.439
Did I say that right?
00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:33.360
Sim Simarabu.
00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:34.240
Simorabu.
00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:34.959
Cimarron.
00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:35.680
Simarron.
00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:35.920
Yeah.
00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:37.199
Okay, a maroon.
00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:39.680
I am the fugitive kind.
00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:42.319
They call us free persons of color.
00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:45.040
They call us free Negro owners of slaves.
00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:47.759
They call us creoles of color.
00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.399
I grew up with the word itself.
00:04:50.639 --> 00:05:00.639
The word seemed to be applied to everything in the household when I was a little boy, from food to music, architecture, and neighborhoods, but never people.
00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:02.879
Certainly not black people.
00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:11.199
I was deliberately not given enough context to understand the word beyond the most rudimentary level.
00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:22.000
I was routinely told, without being told, that any connection to blackness was ugly, intolerable, or unfathomable.
00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:26.079
That's pretty heavy.
00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:28.879
Yes.
00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:29.839
Yeah.
00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:33.040
I um wow, thank you for that.
00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:42.399
Um I would say uh as I'm feeling that and digesting my own words that you're reading to me.
00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:46.639
People in New Orleans were we're very
Load full transcript
tribal.
00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:49.040
You know, we have parishes, not counties.
00:05:49.360 --> 00:06:04.399
There's something really unique about Creole people historically, that uh after the Civil War we tended to cherry-pick facets of that identity that that was comfortable.
00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:24.720
You know, so certain families who could uh, as we say, pass, not only chose to pass, but they chose to cherry pick certain attributes and facets of the culture that they wanted to hold on to that excluded any ties to blackness.
00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:25.199
Yeah.
00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:30.720
And that carried that is carried on through the through the decades and through the century.
00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:46.000
And my family, my mother's family being of the light the light brigade, as uh Charles Munro Trotter used to say, um, they were able to do that in Los Angeles and to assimilate.
00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:57.199
And so their shame and their confusion and their discomfort around anything related to Africa or blackness, um it was felt.
00:06:57.360 --> 00:06:57.680
Yeah.
00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:00.160
It was felt very deeply by me.
00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:07.199
Uh you know, I was reading this part and of course thinking and hearing in my head one of my favorite bands, the Neville Brothers.
00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:09.120
My mother knew them.
00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:10.399
Oh my god.
00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:13.040
Yellow moon, yellow moon, right?
00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:17.600
Yes, yes, oh man, that's another question for another time.
00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:31.600
So, one more quote, and again, this is a big one, but this is also gonna give people a little peek into the fact that there are many different hues of colors going on in this book.
00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:34.560
You know, it's poetry, it's prose.
00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:38.000
You know, it's almost like a fever dream, too.
00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:40.959
And so listen to this one.
00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:47.600
She is a vision, she is the ultimate juxtaposition of bliss and brutality.
00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:57.279
I simply collapse into the chair before me while my wife opens up a leather bag containing numerous instruments of medieval torture.
00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:06.560
I am powerless to do anything except sit there and wait for the impending appointment with a deathless death.
00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:14.319
Suddenly, like an Olympic diver, I feel my consciousness getting ready to make a shift out of the body.
00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:32.720
I sit there while my being is permeated with voices from the oppressors, implanting me with thoughts that my wife is real, that she is the head honcho of this torture, that she is collaborating with them, that she is the very reason I was captured and brought here.
00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:39.919
The confusion is such that I have to fight off a new type of deliberate madness, nothingness.
00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:42.720
The Holy Sun awakens me.
00:08:42.960
--> 00:08:44.399
So what was going on there?
00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:46.480
I thought I had weird dreams.
00:08:48.720 --> 00:09:00.480
To be frank, that was written shortly after I had an experience with three UFOs in broad daylight in Los Angeles.
00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:06.639
I had an experience about four o'clock in the afternoon where I saw three UFOs.
00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:13.039
And later that night I had a ser well, you mentioned fever dreams.
00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:20.080
I had a series of incredibly vivid out-of-body experiences that were more than dreams.
00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:20.720
Wow.
00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:30.960
And in one of the settings of this out-of-body experience, I um that was what I was experiencing in a very real way.
00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:40.480
And um I'm still quite shaken up by it, but I had to get it out, and that's that's the way it came out.
00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:42.879
You must be still processing that.
00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:45.519
I mean, there's a there's a lot going on there.
00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:48.000
Yes, yes, brother, yes.
00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:48.879
Wow.
00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:50.080
Yeah.
00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:53.200
Now, on to an easier question.
00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:54.720
Well, not exactly easy.
00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:55.360
What is it?
00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:57.120
You're trying to get this published.
00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:00.480
What is it like these days, trying to get a book published?
00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:09.519
Because so many people self-publish, but you want to get a real publisher, somebody that can help get this message out to as many people as possible.
00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:12.799
What's your experience been like trying to do that?
00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:14.799
Thank you for that.
00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:19.919
It has been a hustle, it's been a journey, it's been an enlightening experience.
00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:31.840
I've been very fortunate in the last six or seven months to have met some champions of my work and some and some visionary individuals in their own right.
00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:35.840
Um, our mutual friend, JC Gable, is has been one of them.
00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:36.720
He's amazing.
00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:49.519
Um really uh blown my mind with his insights and brilliance, and also saddened me because the publishing industry is not what it used to be, as you know.
00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:50.159
Right.
00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:55.440
Amazon and and other entities have um conglomerates.
00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.399
Yep, conglomerates have taken a hold of the market.
00:10:58.559 --> 00:10:58.879
Yeah.
00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:12.399
Also, the education system in this country has I think contributed to uh or the broken the brokenness in the education system here in this country has also contributed to people reading less.
00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:12.960
Yeah.
00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:45.600
Um, as well as just the the instant I don't want to go after the social media world, but there's something to be said about the youth who are able to grab, you know, 30 seconds of history in a TikTok video instead of you know going to the library and and reading and and questioning and digging under, you know, the soil for for things that can't be shown to you.
00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:52.480
There's there are only things that you can read and experience and and sit with and then talk to other human beings.
00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:55.120
Um that's a crazy idea.
00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:56.720
Right?
00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:02.000
I don't know if you know this, but apparently Frank Zappa never went to college.
00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:05.519
He said he just went to the library and taught himself.
00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:06.879
Oh my God.
00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:08.720
James Baldwin as well.
00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:09.279
Yeah.
00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:17.360
You know, yeah, and you know, I've brought this up before, but of course, very famously Andy Warhol once said that everybody has 15 minutes of fame.
00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:22.480
I think it's maybe down to 15 seconds now and getting lower, right?
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:30.799
Oh my goodness, yes, yes, so yes, so what do you what do you hope, though, with finding a publisher?
00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:38.639
It's I know that you've talked to quite a few people, and JC has been so helpful to us trying to do this.
00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:41.919
But what type of publishing company are you looking for?
00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:43.759
What type of people do you want to reach?
00:12:44.080 --> 00:13:05.519
Well, Malcolm, uh, one of my prayers every day, outside of you know, my soul and my blood family being taken care of, is that my is that my work finds a beautiful home and that um I am able to touch the hearts of all sentient beings.
00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:09.679
You know, there's there's the specific and the universal.
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:27.039
And I I would like to believe that my work is uh both and it's not just for you know people of color or people who are on a spiritual path or who are seeking uh something alternative in a capitalistic and brutal society.
00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:43.600
I think the work is about trans transcendence, and any publishing company that deals with and works with magic or the avant-garde or just a humanistic kind of framework, I would be honored to work with them in in any capacity.
00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:49.360
I would like to be a light in the machine, and it's taken me a long time to admit that.
00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:52.000
But you could be a ghost in the machine too.
00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:52.960
Ooh.
00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:56.960
I would I wouldn't mind that at all.
00:13:57.039 --> 00:13:58.480
I would welcome that too.
00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:00.159
Well, here's a fun question.
00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:02.080
Is there gonna be an audiobook?
00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:03.200
Most likely.
00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:04.720
Most definitely, yes.
00:14:05.039 -->
00:14:07.759
Just come out to the desert and record it here in my studio.
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.799
Oh, hey, let's set a date for that.
00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:11.200
Yeah.
00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:12.720
Oh my goodness.
00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:14.320
That's so fun of you.
00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:15.600
Yes, yes.
00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:31.519
Are you interested or excited about the idea of you know going to independent bookstores to unveil your book, but also read some of it and answer questions?
00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:32.799
Does that appeal to you?
00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:35.200
I've been dreaming about it, my brother.
00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:35.759
Yes.
00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:39.440
Because that's that's the real work, you know.
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:55.519
I mean, outside of writing the thing and doing the thing, I guess it's kind of like musicians, you know, once they finish the album, it's you you get on the road and you start touring and you really give that gift to the people in a direct way.
00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.080
And um it comes alive.
00:14:58.399 --> 00:14:59.840
Yes, it comes alive.
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:05.759
And what happens after that is is absolute alchemy, it's divine alchemy.
00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:07.440
Yeah, yes, yes.
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:13.360
And you know, this just flashed in my mind, but also I keep thinking of William Blake.
00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:15.919
Oh, one of our heroes.
00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:17.679
Yeah, this is like that.
00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:30.000
This will will truly transcend time, and when you have passed on to the next world, it'll still be here, giving life to many people and helping people that feel like they don't fit in.
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:34.159
Thank you.
00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:35.360
Thank you.
00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:40.879
I'm very close with um a shaman in Los Angeles who's who's also a dear friend.
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:47.279
She's the first shaman I ever worked with, and and she told me uh six months ago when I finished it.
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:51.840
She said, uh Jonathan, this is not just a book.
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:53.759
Um, this is an offering.
00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:56.960
And there are some more offerings that you have to give.
00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.639
So I'd like to like to think of it that way as well.
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:02.320
So you're just beginning.
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:03.120
Mm-hmm.
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:05.919
Well, how can people reach you?
00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:10.720
I'm gonna guess Instagram and is there an email address you want to give out?
00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:18.960
If people are checking this out, especially publishers and they're interested, how can people find out what you're up to and contact you?
00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:34.720
Yeah, uh, Instagram is definitely the number one way, John Duella on Instagram, and uh email would be uh John Duella, J-O-N-D-U-E-L-A at gmail.com.
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:40.159
All right, I'm gonna leave you with this.
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:41.440
I was thinking to you this morning.
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:46.559
I woke up, and as I always do, I make some espresso and I read books.
00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:48.240
I know, crazy idea, right?
00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:48.960
Reading.
00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:55.360
And I pulled out a book of one of our favorite authors that we talk about all the time, the one and only Alan Watts.
00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:56.399
Are you ready for this quote?
00:16:57.279 --> 00:16:57.840
Yes.
00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:00.879
This one, I was like, this is for Jonathan.
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:01.600
Here we go.
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:02.799
Advice?
00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:04.319
I don't have advice.
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.039
Stop aspiring and start writing.
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:09.680
If you're writing, you're a writer.
00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:18.079
Write like you're a goddamn death row inmate, and the governor is out of the country and there's no chance for a pardon.
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:30.400
Write like you're clinging to the edge of a cliff, white knuckles on your last breath, and you've got just one last thing to say, like you're a bird flying over us, and you can see everything.
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:35.759
And please, for God's sake, tell us something that will save us from ourselves.
00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:44.799
Take a deep breath and tell us your deepest, darkest secret, so we can wipe our brow and know we're not alone.
00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.720
Right like you have a message from the king, or don't.
00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:49.680
Who knows?
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:53.519
Maybe you're one of the lucky ones who doesn't have to.
00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:55.440
Wow.
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:56.640
Boom, right?
00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:57.839
Wow.
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:00.720
Thank you for that gift.
00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:02.000
My goodness.
00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:04.160
I'm feeling that all over.
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:06.480
Yeah, it's right on, right?
00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:09.759
Is that what you felt like when you were writing?
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:10.880
It's a possession.
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:11.519
Yes.
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:12.319
Yeah, yes.
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:13.599
Has to come out.
00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:14.960
Has to.
00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:15.440
Yeah.
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:17.599
Otherwise it stagnates and we die.
00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:19.279
Death of the heart.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:21.519
Wow.
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:22.960
All right, Jonathan.
00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:23.839
Love you, brother.
00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:26.319
Thanks so much for coming back to talk to us today.
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.039
And I would love it when you do get published.
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.559
Let's get you back on here and let's discuss it some more.
00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:34.160
Love you too, brother.
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.559
Thank you for everything, always.
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:57.680
Hello, my name is Jefferson De Leon, and I am a scientist in the biotech sector and a comedy musician, and I am a proud sponsor of the Creativity is the Cure podcast.
00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:00.960
Because creativity is central to who I am and what I do.
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:05.519
Check out my creations on my website, JeffersonDeleon.com.
00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:11.039
That is J E F F E R S O N D E L E O N E dot com.