Pełna transkrypcja odcinka Exposing Vulnerabilities: Evolve Bank's Breach and the Fintech Trust Challenge

were able to hack into a large volume of their internal emails. 00:04:46.925 --> 00:04:52.706 Something like 9.9 gigabytes of PST files, which is basically Outlook data files are sitting out there. 00:04:53.201 --> 00:04:54.904 Why do they even have like don't? 00:04:54.904 --> 00:05:01.509 I mean many companies right sort of delete all their emails every three months or six months or a year. 00:05:01.509 --> 00:05:04.247 Right, it's like why was there access to so many emails? 00:05:05.331 --> 00:05:06.836 It is just it's amazing. 00:05:06.836 --> 00:05:08.000 It's like why was there access to so many emails? 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:11.223 It is just it's amazing. 00:05:11.223 --> 00:05:15.776 I'll tell you what we need to do a show sometime just on ransomware companies, because I went out and did a little bit of reading about LockBit and it's fascinating. 00:05:15.776 --> 00:05:20.351 They're basically, you know how you have banking as a service and software as a service. 00:05:20.351 --> 00:05:24.708 So LockBit is ransomware as a service, so is a business. 00:05:24.708 --> 00:05:32.699 Everybody, um, and and this group is flipping really, really good about good at it they're the world's most politic ransomware. 00:05:32.699 --> 00:05:36.509 Um, I guess firm, I don't know a better way of saying it group. 00:05:36.528 --> 00:05:37.591 I guess it's a ball. 00:05:37.591 --> 00:05:46.194 It is all about incentives, right, and the thing is we not want nobody wants social security numbers released on the dark web. 00:05:46.194 --> 00:05:47.964 It's not good for anybody, right? 00:05:47.964 --> 00:05:50.071 And I'm including LockBit. 00:05:50.071 --> 00:05:54.091 Lockbit isn't profiting off of having social security numbers on the dark web. 00:05:54.091 --> 00:06:00.024 Americans are obviously going to get screwed from this, and so that's what I'm saying. 00:06:00.024 --> 00:06:00.987 This is really kind of the worst case scenario. 00:06:00.987 --> 00:06:01.529 That's what I'm saying. 00:06:01.529 --> 00:06:03.637 This is really kind of the worst case scenario. 00:06:04.940 --> 00:06:05.321 Oh, it's horrible. 00:06:05.321 --> 00:06:10.033 What's interesting is, again, we believe the hack occurred toward the back end of May. 00:06:10.033 --> 00:06:24.387 In the first week of May the US government actually charged the founders of Lockpit, which is a Russian national Shocker, basically put a $10 million bounty on their head. 00:06:24.387 --> 00:06:30.581 So yeah, of all things right, I mean just we're talking weeks before this hack even happened. 00:06:30.581 --> 00:06:33.639 You know the US government basically was going out for them. 00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:39.882 So I mean, again, like we said at the beginning, there are just some weeks where you're like man, could we use a little good news? 00:06:39.882 --> 00:06:41.836 You know, just a little bit. 00:06:42.410 --> 00:06:46.149 Well, and Evolve so, really, honestly, a great target for LockBit. 00:06:46.149 --> 00:06:49.040 They're in this really interesting vulnerable position, right. 00:06:49.040 --> 00:07:00.663 So my guess Evolve is a small bank in the scheme of things, right, if you compare it up to Chase Bank of America, they are a small bank. 00:07:00.663 --> 00:07:01.425 They probably do not have the same. 00:07:01.425 --> 00:07:03.896 We know that they don't have sufficient security practices, right. 00:07:03.896 --> 00:07:07.411 They don't have the IT staff that one of these bigger banks has. 00:07:07.411 --> 00:07:13.269 But on the flip side, evolve has built their business as a partner to fintech companies. 00:07:13.269 --> 00:07:19.997 So Evolve is probably the number one biggest partner bank that supports fintech programs. 00:07:19.997 --> 00:07:24.077 They power a bunch of banking as a service software platforms, right. 00:07:24.077 --> 00:07:24.879 So those are the. 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:31.293 Evolve is the bank behind a bunch of software platforms, including infamous Synapse. 00:07:31.293 --> 00:07:38.964 That powers a bunch of other programs as well as just working directly with really big companies like Affirm and Stripe. 00:07:40.271 --> 00:07:41.173 Yeah, I mean Evolve. 00:07:41.173 --> 00:07:42.459 I was just looking at it now. 00:07:42.459 --> 00:07:48.262 I mean, you know, when we think of the big boys, evolve is based out of Tennessee, if I remember right. 00:07:48.262 --> 00:07:56.418 You know this is sub $5 billion in assets when you talk about total assets for the bank, so a small bank, but a massive player. 00:07:56.459 --> 00:07:57.201 Durban exempt. 00:07:57.891 --> 00:08:07.475 Yeah, I mean massive player, though when it comes to fintech, I mean the number of companies that they service is I mean you're talking. 00:08:07.475 --> 00:08:09.872 Affirm Earning Marketta. 00:08:09.872 --> 00:08:12.819 Lord Alloy Bond Branch. 00:08:12.819 --> 00:08:16.702 Dave Melio, mercury Love. 00:08:16.723 --> 00:08:19.896 Mercury Mercury, I think Mercury previously, but not currently. 00:08:20.237 --> 00:08:23.637 Yeah, not currently, and I think that's a good point. 00:08:24.649 --> 00:08:26.478 Yeah, with Mercury, although I'm curious. 00:08:26.478 --> 00:08:47.966 So if Mercury customers I mean presumably if personal information was hacked, evolve still has all the personal information from Mercury customers, even though they have since switched off it, unless, as part of their switching, they I mean I honestly I don't even think you can request that data be deleted. 00:08:47.966 --> 00:08:58.241 I think the banks need to keep that data in order to comply with regulations and for future reporting, and so it stems the damage. 00:08:58.241 --> 00:09:01.734 It makes Mercury look good that they've moved off of Evolve. 00:09:01.734 --> 00:09:13.975 Anyone who's signed up super recently will not have been a victim, but it seems like most Mercury customers are still impacted by this, as well as anyone else who has moved off

of Evolve. 00:09:15.198 --> 00:09:20.096 Did you get a chance to read the post by Supes over at Sardine AI? 00:09:20.096 --> 00:09:21.419 Nope, when he talked about this. 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:21.780 What did he say? 00:09:21.801 --> 00:09:22.582 It's fascinating. 00:09:22.582 --> 00:09:23.571 He did a. 00:09:23.571 --> 00:09:28.139 Supes went on a thread rant about this a couple days ago. 00:09:28.139 --> 00:09:28.961 So everyone doesn't know. 00:09:28.961 --> 00:09:32.392 Supes is the founder of Sardine AI, which is again in this. 00:09:32.392 --> 00:09:36.899 You know the AML KYC space and fraud. 00:09:36.899 --> 00:09:39.491 Very fascinating one because he's like you. 00:09:39.491 --> 00:09:40.453 Please understand. 00:09:40.453 --> 00:09:42.942 The second your social security number is compromised. 00:09:42.942 --> 00:09:44.451 It's compromised. 00:09:44.451 --> 00:09:47.216 There's no tokenization around your social security. 00:09:47.216 --> 00:09:52.085 There's no way to go out and get a new SSN issued, right, or an EIN. 00:09:52.085 --> 00:09:54.273 I mean it's again. 00:09:54.273 --> 00:09:57.158 We are in this day and age. 00:09:57.158 --> 00:10:02.393 We talk about this in banking all the time, but this extends far beyond banking. 00:10:02.393 --> 00:10:10.475 What we rely upon for PIA data is data that can't be changed your date of birth, your social. 00:10:10.475 --> 00:10:15.499 You know I mean, let's go back to the day right, your mother's maiden name, your favorite hobby. 00:10:15.499 --> 00:10:17.037 I guess you can change your favorite hobby. 00:10:17.037 --> 00:10:18.495 You can't change your mother's maiden name. 00:10:18.495 --> 00:10:21.878 You're not changing your date of birth, you're not changing your social, you know. 00:10:21.878 --> 00:10:27.169 I mean, just like you said, when that PII data is out there, it's out there, I mean- there. 00:10:27.190 --> 00:10:27.812 I mean it's just game over. 00:10:27.812 --> 00:10:34.974 I mean, honestly, it's like after after the um equifax hack, a lot of that is out there anyway. 00:10:34.974 --> 00:10:49.879 Um, I think, frankly, this is not the first time that we've realized, like, look, we cannot depend on social security number, on knowing social security number, as proof that somebody is who they say they are and a proof of their identity. 00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:57.270 Right, we got to step up it, like has to. 00:10:57.270 --> 00:10:58.592 It's an arms race and it's got to continue to be multifaceted. 00:10:58.592 --> 00:11:05.784 I know other data that was leaked that is a little bit less sensitive, but the full 16 digit card numbers referred to as the pan. 00:11:05.784 --> 00:11:14.725 I think a firm just confirmed that their card product is totally compromised. 00:11:14.725 --> 00:11:16.676 That's kind of rough right. 00:11:16.676 --> 00:11:19.119 There's a lot of protections baked into cards. 00:11:19.119 --> 00:11:22.299 People can get those reissued, but it's a huge pain in the ass. 00:11:22.299 --> 00:11:34.836 A lot of settlement files, ach files, I think, even people who did not have an account at Evolve but who sent a transfer to somebody who has an account at Evolve. 00:11:34.836 --> 00:11:36.421 Some of their information has been compromised too. 00:11:36.929 --> 00:11:41.000 That's what makes this interesting, because that's where we've gotten in the gotten. 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:42.692 I don't think that's great English, everybody. 00:11:42.692 --> 00:11:48.402 That's where we're at now, in 2024, with FinTech. 00:11:48.402 --> 00:11:57.477 That's part of the skin in the game level that we're at, because we're talking about banking as a service, or blank as a service. 00:11:57.477 --> 00:12:25.759 There's multiple layers of integration, right, I mean, I'm, I'm a bank, I am servicing, say this, this, this payments company, and then there's a kyc vendor that sits out there and a fraud vendor that's out there and take your pick, and so the spider webs of tracking this back to figure out the impact is the CSI for fintech and hacks like this. 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:28.184 That's a business model. 00:12:28.184 --> 00:12:29.755 That's something I should have gone into. 00:12:29.755 --> 00:12:33.220 But again, everybody, I like what Maia referenced when you talked about Equifax. 00:12:33.220 --> 00:12:36.078 That was back in 2017, the hack that occurred there. 00:12:37.212 --> 00:12:37.476 Again. 00:12:37.476 --> 00:12:38.349 This isn't new. 00:12:38.349 --> 00:12:40.537 We already lost everybody's social security number. 00:12:40.537 --> 00:12:41.259 Let's be real. 00:12:41.590 --> 00:12:45.181 It wasn't secret, amen, it wasn't secret, we it wasn't secret. 00:12:45.250 --> 00:12:46.111 We lost it again. 00:12:46.111 --> 00:12:52.610 Um, but this is I mean it's really far reaching my well one of my biggest concerns. 00:12:52.610 --> 00:12:54.033 I mean, sam, this is our industry, right? 00:12:54.033 --> 00:13:02.438 You, you and I have kind of bet our careers on FinTech and this is a huge trust-breaking moment. 00:13:02.438 --> 00:13:13.155 Um, equifax lost a lot of trust in the breach, but people can't really decide whether they're a part of Equifax or whether they're using it or not. 00:13:13.155 --> 00:13:18.302 The credit bureaus do not have strong consumer brands, right? 00:13:18.429 --> 00:13:22.875 They are mostly, and so that was sort of a side A lot of this consumer stuff. 00:13:22.875 --> 00:13:34.158 I mean, dude, everybody who gets instant payouts from Uber I think they might have been affected because Branch, the payments provider there, was powered by Evolve. 00:13:34.158 --> 00:13:49.719 I mean FinTech, like all of the stuff that people love from FinTech, which is those instant payouts, right, which is fee-free banking, which is all that stuff that Stripe does, which is buy nowfree banking, which is, um, all you know all that stuff that stripe does, which is buy now, pay later from a firm.

00:13:49.719 --> 00:13:51.948 Like there's a ton of consumer demand for this. 00:13:51.948 --> 00:14:03.397 But this is kind of a big trust-breaking moment and I gotta say I mean, ever the social security numbers were out evolve as a small bank. 00:14:03.397 --> 00:14:04.480 They don't have the it. 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:15.120 I can be a little bit understanding for some of the stuff with the, with the hack, but the comms has been abysmal people are getting emails, the timing, the confusion. 00:14:15.460 --> 00:14:18.192 It seems like nobody knows exactly what happened. 00:14:18.192 --> 00:14:23.754 Um, I am getting my phone is blowing up with text messages from people saying, hey, I bank with mercury. 00:14:23.754 --> 00:14:26.160 Like am, is my money at risk? 00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:29.200 Hey, like I have an Affirm card, what do I need? 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:35.679 Like nobody is on top of this stuff and Evolve is way behind the ball. 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:40.221 I mean, you kind of casually mentioned the cease and desist against Jason for reporting. 00:14:40.221 --> 00:14:45.461 I feel like that shows how much they've sort of lost the thread on this. 00:14:46.331 --> 00:14:47.875 Yeah, I'm with you on that one. 00:14:47.894 --> 00:14:50.160 They're out of control it's interesting. 00:14:51.452 --> 00:15:10.980 Yeah, I mean, and that was a Twitter thread that was going on when Jason was talking about this and he literally mentioned something about a firm and Max Levchin, right out in the blue, replied to Jason and said yeah, if there's anything you can do to give me more information to help with this, I give Max Levchin props for that Right. 00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:13.495 Get out in front of this Wise has done that. 00:15:13.730 --> 00:15:15.658 Max has had great comms throughout this. 00:15:16.510 --> 00:15:19.039 I'm a big everybody just so we can get past this. 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:22.355 I'm a Max Levchin fanboy, so I like Max. 00:15:22.610 --> 00:15:24.437 I think he's brilliant One of the PayPal mafia. 00:15:24.437 --> 00:15:26.335 Everybody Very good at what he does. 00:15:27.410 --> 00:15:30.259 And proved that buy now, pay later was a real thing, because everyone yeah. 00:15:31.169 --> 00:15:34.056 Through, like it feels like Max's, like force of will. 00:15:34.777 --> 00:15:35.859 Yeah, max, come on the show. 00:15:35.859 --> 00:15:36.921 Come on, baby. 00:15:36.921 --> 00:15:38.423 Would love to interview. 00:15:38.423 --> 00:15:42.293 But yeah, I think he did a fantastic job jumping in front of this. 00:15:42.293 --> 00:15:43.974 Wise has done the same thing. 00:15:43.974 --> 00:15:48.616 You know, on the comms part, I think Mercury has done a good job, mercury has been excellent, you know. 00:15:49.717 --> 00:15:50.538 I kind of you know. 00:15:50.538 --> 00:15:51.458 I think it evolved. 00:15:51.458 --> 00:15:59.966 I think you positioned this correctly when Equifax had this you know, massive hack everyone back in 2017, and they were fined. 00:15:59.966 --> 00:16:02.086 I think it was like $1.3 billion, if I remember. 00:16:02.086 --> 00:16:03.711 It was a chunk of change. 00:16:03.711 --> 00:16:04.615 They had to pay out the door. 00:16:04.615 --> 00:16:06.419 Equifax can survive that. 00:16:06.419 --> 00:16:19.282 Evolve is not a large bank they aren't and on top of this, they had the whole Synapse debacle, which was also happening, this whole reconciliation issue that they had. 00:16:19.282 --> 00:16:21.917 They had the OCC come at them with the. 00:16:21.917 --> 00:16:32.754 You know they got nailed there and then you know just not that I think it was yesterday or the day before. 00:16:32.754 --> 00:16:35.460 You know, now you've got congressmen more or less coming after Evolve too. 00:16:35.460 --> 00:16:37.283 You know it's been reported. 00:16:37.283 --> 00:16:42.541 So some rough days in Tennessee, I think, right now. 00:16:42.701 --> 00:16:43.143 Rough days. 00:16:43.143 --> 00:16:43.595 So we have. 00:16:43.595 --> 00:16:46.977 So there's a couple of weaknesses that have been highlighted by recent events. 00:16:46.977 --> 00:16:51.556 So one we've got like a concentration risk in the fintech ecosystem. 00:16:51.556 --> 00:17:03.972 So many products were powered by Evolve on the backend, that then, right, with this one hack, it's taken down like a ton of the fintech industry including. 00:17:03.972 --> 00:17:05.518 Well, yeah, so that's one risk. 00:17:06.230 --> 00:17:16.881 A second risk, you know, having these sponsor banks, since it's so difficult to get a bank charter and to be regulated, as a bank in the US has had all these interesting things. 00:17:16.881 --> 00:17:22.442 So the sponsor banks don't really have the end customer relationship, and that's what the fintechs want. 00:17:22.442 --> 00:17:29.171 They say, hey, we want to own the customer relationship and all the communications with them and we just want to kind of rent out your bank charter. 00:17:29.171 --> 00:17:41.240 Well, we're in a weird ass position now where, like, even a bunch of the startups that were backed by Evolve have shut down, right, so they don't even exist anymore. 00:17:41.661 --> 00:17:44.535 Their customers' information was leaked in the Evolve hack. 00:17:44.535 --> 00:17:46.199 Well, who's sending out the emails? 00:17:46.199 --> 00:17:47.260 Who's sending out the notification? 00:17:47.260 --> 00:17:51.096 Is it Evolve, this company that they may not have even heard of before? 00:17:51.096 --> 00:18:02.519 Right, it's got that small print at the bottom you signed up for a Glorify account and there's this tiny print that are like banking services provided by Evolve, na, like whatever the whole thing, and then you get an email from them out of the blue. 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:18.000 So I feel like the customer comms piece has just been done really poorly, both because we have like a little bit of incompetence, but also just as a structural weakness like this is the

way that the fintech ecosystem is structured. 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:30.634 It's a lot of benefits to separating out the customer relationship to be owned by the fintech, but this is we're kind of seeing one of the weaknesses too, particularly if the fintech is shorter lived than the bank, which is going to be the case. 00:18:30.634 --> 00:18:34.211 It's almost by design that banks are pretty hard to fail in the US. 00:18:34.932 --> 00:18:38.420 Yeah, I think there's a great quote in paymentscom today. 00:18:38.420 --> 00:18:45.651 It was from Thread CEO, jim McCarthy. 00:18:45.651 --> 00:18:46.133 Thread being T-H-R-E-D-D. 00:18:46.133 --> 00:18:46.755 Welcome to FinTech. 00:18:46.755 --> 00:18:48.402 There's so many companies named the same thing, but this is a good quote. 00:18:48.402 --> 00:18:49.566 He said the regulators are now awake. 00:18:49.566 --> 00:18:56.042 Too many people are focused on the as a service part but have minored in the banking part of it all. 00:18:56.042 --> 00:19:02.740 If you're going to play in that space, I'd argue that if you fail at the banking part, the service piece doesn't even matter. 00:19:02.740 --> 00:19:05.183 Yeah, yeah, 100%. 00:19:05.183 --> 00:19:12.763 There's a lot Like what Wade Arnold, the founder of Move Railwork, says there's a lot of fin in fintech, but there needs to be a bit more. 00:19:12.763 --> 00:19:26.112 You know, what I find really interesting about this is way back in the day, when I was on subs bouncing around under the ocean, we had what we called casualty operating procedures. 00:19:26.112 --> 00:19:37.631 They were cops, Maia, and there were these 13 manuals that basically addressed every single situation that would take our guidance system down and not allow us to launch nuclear missiles. 00:19:38.311 --> 00:19:47.185 And they were step-by-step manuals that, by the way, as the navigation supervisor where I worked, I had to have them memorized. 00:19:47.185 --> 00:19:49.217 I had 13 manuals. 00:19:49.217 --> 00:19:52.734 I knew every step, every step, and we practiced. 00:19:52.734 --> 00:19:54.119 We did drills. 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:57.078 Practice just didn't sound like the military. 00:19:57.078 --> 00:19:59.215 We drilled on them over and over again. 00:19:59.215 --> 00:20:00.400 We'd do them in the dark. 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:02.277 We'd do them with our air mask on. 00:20:02.277 --> 00:20:04.518 We would do them while diving deep. 00:20:04.518 --> 00:20:05.499 We'd do them with our air mask on. 00:20:05.499 --> 00:20:06.680 We would do them while diving deep. 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:08.080 We'd do them while doing an emergency surface. 00:20:08.080 --> 00:20:14.711 We would go through every scenario and they would constantly get updated because we'd think of another terrible thing that could happen, because essentially, we could end the world. 00:20:14.711 --> 00:20:20.093 That was, the job of the submarine was to launch nuclear missiles, you wonder. 00:20:22.278 --> 00:20:30.516 Dude, it doesn't look to me like Evolve that I'm just gonna say it might be good, everybody yeah critical large data leak. 00:20:30.596 --> 00:20:31.376 What do we do? 00:20:31.376 --> 00:20:32.358 What's step one? 00:20:33.020 --> 00:20:37.455 yep, yep, yep, because right now you've got about five or six different things hitting all at the same time. 00:20:37.455 --> 00:20:45.260 I get it, I understand, I feel your pain, but man, everybody, um, let's do better. 00:20:45.651 --> 00:20:47.317 Their leadership team is going to get some ulcers. 00:20:48.049 --> 00:20:52.662 Yeah, I'll say this, Maia, and this even ties back to the Synapse debacle that was going on. 00:20:52.662 --> 00:21:06.824 When you read, we have to remember, at the end of the day, we're servicing real people, whether they're small businesses or individuals, consumers who can't access the money they put into synapse, you know, and say, hey, I'm out $30,000. 00:21:06.824 --> 00:21:09.335 I'm actually suicidal, I believe that was one of the letters. 00:21:09.355 --> 00:21:10.138 I mean it's unacceptable. 00:21:10.910 --> 00:21:12.477 That's at the end of the day. 00:21:12.477 --> 00:21:15.230 We have a fiduciary and ethical responsibility. 00:21:15.230 --> 00:21:16.836 I'm preaching everybody, but I don't care. 00:21:17.309 --> 00:21:28.156 We have a fiduciary and ethical responsibility to do better to remember who we're servicing Ethical and, frankly, regulatory responsibility to do better, to remember who we're servicing. 00:21:28.156 --> 00:21:30.143 Ethical and, frankly, regulatory responsibility yes give people access to their funds. 00:21:30.163 --> 00:21:31.226 So everybody, let's do better. 00:21:31.226 --> 00:21:32.770 Okay, how's that? 00:21:32.790 --> 00:21:41.021 let's do better let's wrap this up I know we're in the middle of this, we don't even know all the consequences exactly, yet still unfolding but excited to keep an eye on it. 00:21:41.021 --> 00:21:43.094 Hopefully it doesn't take down the whole industry. 00:21:43.094 --> 00:21:45.259 Hey, that would be nice. 00:21:46.221 --> 00:21:49.518 Please don't I like working here everybody. 00:21:49.518 --> 00:21:52.114 Hey, go out and read Jason Malika's. 00:21:52.114 --> 00:21:57.084 Oh, jason, come on, mikula, sorry, jason, I keep trying. 00:21:57.084 --> 00:21:58.934 Great Twitter feed. 00:21:58.934 --> 00:22:01.457 There's others that are reporting. 00:22:01.457 --> 00:22:03.217 Great, a lot of reporting going on right now. 00:22:03.217 --> 00:22:08.720 The story is unfolding, even some of the things that we talked about we're going to get more clarity on. 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:13.074 But again, everybody, let's just do better. 00:22:13.074 --> 00:22:14.519 Hey, thanks for listening. 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:17.537 Really, we really do appreciate it. 00:22:17.537 --> 00:22:18.412 We love this space. 00:22:18.412 --> 00:22:20.491 Like I said, Maia and I just keep learning, right, Maia? 00:22:20.491 --> 00:22:22.814 I mean, every week something new comes up. 00:22:22.814 --> 00:22:23.936 It's fascinating. 00:22:24.217 --> 00:22:25.882 You know it's fun when there's so much drama. 00:22:28.251 --> 00:22:31.481 Yeah, drama Drama's fun as long as it's not your drama or mine. 00:22:31.481 --> 00:22:33.978 Hey everybody, have a great week. 00:22:34.730 --> 00:22:41.503 So thanks so much for listening to another episode of Artificially Intelligent part of the Money 2020 Network. 00:22:41.503 --> 00:22:43.655 We will see you next week.