WEBVTT
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What does it take to make workshops work?
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And how can we facilitate collaboration that sticks and leads to results?
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My name is Miriam Hapnus, and with the Workshops Work Podcast, I'm on the mission to find the magic ingredients that make workshops work.
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Today with me on the show is Matthew Homan.
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And we speak about holding space.
00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:23.440
Literally.
00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:41.679
Matt owns a facilitation facility and we explore how it suddenly shifts the work we do as facilitators when we own the space in which we facilitate and invite the groups to join us there.
00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:55.439
And obviously we speak about the tools, we speak about neutrality, how COVID hit and how it helped transform and learn about the business and facilitation as such.
00:00:55.840 --> 00:01:04.640
So stay tuned and scroll down to the show notes to find all the links and to reach out to Matt and hit the subscribe button if you enjoyed the show.
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Thank you for listening.
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Hello, Matt.
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Welcome to the show.
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Good afternoon, good morning, good wherever we happen to be.
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Yes.
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I'm very excited, and we're already I had to quickly press the record button because we're already diving deep into the conversation.
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Um, and maybe we can pick up the thread where we left it.
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Being liked as a facilitator.
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And before we get there, when did you start calling yourself a facilitator?
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And actually, do you?
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I do.
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I think it is one of those titles that is underused and often underappreciated, though people who do it well add so much value.
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So I've embraced it.
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Though the first time I was came to this work accidentally, I think as many of us did, and I started a little conference, and it was for legal innovators.
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I'm a recovering lawyer and found myself in that event, not really knowing what I was doing, but enjoying a conversation that wasn't driven by PowerPoint, that wasn't presentation heavy.
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And we used a version of open space, and I say a version because we bastardized it probably so much early on because I didn't completely understand it as a tool.
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And someone in that conference said to me, man, I need you to facilitate something at my company because you're such a good facilitator.
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And I'd never thought of myself as a facilitator, would have never used that title.
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And you get introduced a couple times with that uh moniker, and I'm like, Yeah, like I'm a facilitator.
00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:04.320
What does it take to make workshops work?
00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:08.720
And how can we facilitate collaboration that sticks and leads to results?
00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:15.759
My name is Miriam Hapnus, and with the Workshops Work Podcast, I'm on the mission to find the magic ingredients that make workshops work.
00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:18.399
Today with me on the show is Matthew Homan.
00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:22.320
And we speak about holding space.
00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:23.440
Literally.
00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:41.679
Matt owns a facilitation facility and we explore how it suddenly shifts the work we do as facilitators when we own the space in which we facilitate and invite the groups to join us there.
00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:55.439
And obviously we speak about the tools, we speak about neutrality, how COVID hit and how it helped transform and learn about the business and facilitation as such.
00:00:55.840 --> 00:01:04.640
So stay tuned and scroll down to the show notes to find all the links and to reach out to Matt and hit the subscribe button if you enjoyed the show.
00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:05.680
Thank you for listening.
00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:08.159
Hello, Matt.
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Welcome to the show.
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Good afternoon, good morning, good wherever we happen to be.
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Yes.
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I'm very excited, and we're already I had to quickly press the record button because we're already diving deep into the conversation.
00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:25.280
Um, and maybe we can pick up the thread where we left it.
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Being liked as a facilitator.
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And before we get there, when did you start calling yourself a facilitator?
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And actually, do you?
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I do.
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I think it is one of those titles that is underused and often underappreciated, though people who do it well add so much value.
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So I've embraced it.
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Though the first time I was came to this work accidentally, I think as many of us did, and I started a little conference, and it was for legal innovators.
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I'm a recovering lawyer and found myself in that event, not really knowing what I was doing, but enjoying a conversation that wasn't driven by PowerPoint, that wasn't presentation heavy.
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And we used a version of open space, and I say a version because we bastardized it probably so much early on because I didn't completely understand it as a tool.
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And someone in that conference said to me, man, I need you to facilitate something at my company because you're such a good facilitator.
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And I'd never thought of myself as a facilitator, would have never used that title.
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And you get introduced a couple times with that uh moniker, and I'm like, Yeah, like I'm a facilitator.
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Uh and so probably the first time it hit me was maybe 25-ish, 23-ish years ago, and I've embraced it ever since.
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Beautiful.
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I love these stories of uh of discovery of the label.
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And my favorites are when uh someone else gifted us with the label.
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Oh, you're facilitator.
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And I love what you said that you might have misused the open space.
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And somehow yesterday I was recording with Thomas Lanthaler, and I always call him the MacGyver of facilitation because he just uses whatever is available to him.
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And we spoke about frameworks and tools and the importance to deviate from how it's supposed to be, so that we can make them uh our own and adjust them to the group's purpose.
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And I think when it comes natural to us, because we have not been trained, so you are stepping into the space as a lawyer, and then you hear about open space, and you sometimes it's the misunderstandings that then make it more valuable because you understand it in a way that works for you and the group in the moment.
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I think that's so true.
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And and for me, because I've never been trained as a facilitator, uh, that in many ways is the gift that this title has given me, in that I don't have a process, I don't have an approach.
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We've built our own.
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And I think that so much of what comes with perhaps the gray hair, the experience, the mistakes we make, is that we start to trust our instincts that an approach that may feel right in the moment is the right one.
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Not that it was in a book behind us that it was taught to us by a mentor.
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And that trust of, I'm pretty sure it will work.
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And if it doesn't work, I'm pretty sure that I'll be able to extricate ourselves from whatever danger this approach may have brought us into.
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Uh, has been one of my favorite parts of this work is the confidence to know that as long as you care about your the room, and as long as you are not an idiot about you know, about your capabilities, it's almost always going to be okay.
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Yeah.
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And I think the moment where we put away the the walking stick, so we have to stand on our own feet, we have to be fully present with the group.
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So in um I suffered for a long time from imposter syndrome because I haven't been trained as a facilitator.
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And similar to you, I developed my own methods because I thought, okay, this kind of makes sense.
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Right.
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And then reading about some of them afterwards, like, oh, this is actually how it's done.
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Isn't it fun to come across a method that is uh widely admired and adopted to know that you got there not first but differently without knowing that method existed.
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Yeah.
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And I think about how oftentimes I'm like, oh yeah, I'm lucky enough to have stumbled upon it on my own.
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And the validation I think comes after sometimes, versus feeling like you have to follow the recipes that you've been given.
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Yeah.
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And sometimes it's helpful.
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But I think if we do have, and then it's a experience, yeah, gray hair definitely helps.
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You cannot see them with my curls, but yeah, I sure and we left the thread at um of our previous pre-recording call at the um how important it is, or how difficult it is to let go as a facilitator the drive notion wanting to be liked.
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And I was thinking that's how I try to build the bridge to what you do.
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What I found fascinating from our exploration call is that you build a home, a space for workshops or meetings to which you're inviting groups to be facilitated.
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So you're building the home for the facilitator, and they are basically coming to your space.
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So this makes you literally the host.
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Right.
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And I wonder how this different dynamic changes the way that you approach the group and how you relate to the group, because I can imagine that when I'm going to someone's space, either to a client in their office spaces or to a conference space that has been booked, there might be a different dynamic to that.
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Yeah, I the I started Filament, it's been about 10 years or so, but it was really an accidental business.
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Uh again, I I loved the facilitation, but I never thought I could be a facilitator and run a business.
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And so I had a company that effectively drew pictures of hard-to-understand things.
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Right?
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Here's a map of your strategy, here's a visualization of your culture, here's a process map, et cetera.
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But the facilitation of those sessions, the learning from the client, I often see that clients would change.
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They would rethink their process, they would reimagine their culture because the facilitation was allowing them to have conversations they never really gave themselves room to have on their own.
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And so, but I had this company, we had seven or eight people, and I found this space.
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I live here in St.
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Louis, Missouri, right in the middle of the country, and I was looking for an office for that team.
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And I found this amazing space in an old loft building in downtown St.
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Louis at the time, and still was a city that it was affordable to take such a bet.
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And I ultimately took almost 10,000 square feet of space.
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I meant to do the meet at square meters to square feet conversion, and I just didn't get to it.
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So I don't know how much that is in the rest of the world, but it's a relatively large space.
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And I saw to I had this epiphany, Miriam, that wow, if I had the space, I could actually bring people here to facilitate it.
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And I could do, I could build the space for the meetings that I wanted to facilitate, and I could then build facilitation models that fit the space.
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And and that was it.
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That was the only idea because I think it's almost everyone who has facilitated the room, has always kept me from doing something I wanted to do.
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And not only you, but the group.
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The group, right?
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Like, like our biggest enemy as facilitators isn't the customers, their rooms they put us in.
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And you can't put stuff on the walls, you can't move the furniture, you get a big boardroom table because those who design the rooms or the who picked the rooms for us don't have an appreciation of the nuance of how much space matters.
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And so found the space.
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Uh I had no money, bootstrapped everything, but we've we happened to be happening to find a bunch of library chairs and tables that were being retrofitted.
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We found amazing space.
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It just was beautiful.
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And so having the space for the meetings, there were a couple things that just completely surprised me, and I still am gobsmacked by the what an impact they had on the business.
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Is the one is that we realized that we were selling something people had never bought, disguised as something they buy all the time.
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So we were selling meetings to them, even though the kind of work we were doing they might have described differently.
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But because we had space, we got past that first barrier of why should we hire you to work with us.
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And having the space all of a sudden became our best salesperson because it was cool, it was interesting, it was different.
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And so they would come into the space and realize that, oh my goodness, or at least surmise that we might know what we're doing, even if we didn't.
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So it became in many ways for us early the proof that we were real versus the kind of conversations I used to have when I would go to visit them.
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Oh, what makes you different?
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You're just like all these other facilitators.
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Well, we were the ones who had the space.
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And then the second thing, and this was this really shocked me as well, is I started to realize how much power we had and how the power dynamic had shifted when I was hosting versus when I was being hosted.
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It became relatively easy to tell the CEO of a big corporation here in town, no, we started banning PowerPoint.
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We wouldn't let our clients show PowerPoint slides in their meetings anymore.
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We were able to pivot more readily because we had our copier and we could print new tools and change approaches.
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And we also realized that we were way smarter about the business the moment we stopped renting our space to other people.
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And that we're all that was we made lots of mistakes early because we would have good clients like, oh, we're bringing an outside consultant.
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Can we use a space?
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We're like, oh, we love you, fill in the blank of the company, happy to do it.
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And I realized that if someone was going to have a bad meeting in Filament, I wanted it to be our fault.
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That's a space.
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And because I was so because it was filament, that was the space.
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And I didn't want someone to say, I went to Filament and had a bad meeting.
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And we saw some of those state-of-the-art meetings that other people were paying people a significant amount of money to do in our space, weren't that good.
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And the moment we stopped renting space and started selling meetings that included food, that included snacks, that included facilitation, that included an illustrator who draws in every session, that didn't include the projector because we weren't using PowerPoint, that had a fridge full of beer.
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If you wanted to grab something at two in the afternoon, you could.
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Like we weren't in the business of counting things.
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We were in the business of hosting people in our space.
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And it just changed everything in so many ways that I hadn't expected or appreciated until looking backwards, I realized we're value that we didn't think we could extricate from the business model and totally did.
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Yeah.
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Oh, thank you for this exact and for telling the full story.
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There's so much to unpack.
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And what I first want to reflect on is the role as a physical, as you said, it's a shift in the power dynamics.
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And you're creating a space of abundance and generosity, and an abundance in space and attitude also translates into an abundance of mindset and how you deal with each other.
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And I'm just thinking of the moments as an external facilitator.
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I come in, I I have to be escorted everywhere I have to go because I need a badge and because it's high security.
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Or um I have to ask, oh, can I do need more sticky notes?
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Can you please, please find someone to so there's always this making myself small, but it's not really that.
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It's yeah, restrictive in movement and restrictive in creativity and everything that I I usually bring my own sharpies because the pens are never good enough that everyone else provides because they're cheap on it because they don't see the value.
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So I think the space that you create represents directly your value system.
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It it also gives people a sense when they come that the medium will be different.
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Right?
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The shelf behind me is one of about 20 of these of books and knickknacks and my childhood toys are around, right?
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The things that the things that I grew up with.
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So the moment people come in, the signal to them that it will be different.
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There's almost always something that they find that they're curious about.
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Uh, it signals a sense of play almost from the from the the get-go.
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But I'll say one other thing that having space has changed for us is it's allowed us to try more things.
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If we wanted to do an event, and we just tried one of these last uh two weeks ago, we called it play days, but we literally realized lots of our customers struggle with AI.
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They just haven't had a chance.
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So we just we called it play days.
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Say we came in, we give them 60 minutes of here's how we use it and hang out with us all day long and play.
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And 60 or 70 people came for that event, and it was just the gift of permission.
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But because we have space, it was easy to do.
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We didn't have to swipe a credit card to rent a ballroom, we didn't have to ask for a favor.
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So we constantly are able to try new things here in a way that we never that I never felt easy that was easy to do when I was always looking to borrow, beg, steal, or rent someone else's space.
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Yeah.
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Very interesting.
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And then suddenly the funnel.
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So speaking from a business perspective, the funnel is a very different one.
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Because when you invite people to your space and you they walk in and know that this space stands for something and it's not rentable with other facilitators, then there is already you build a relationship from moment one and you connect it with positive experiences and learning.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Having uh and and having the capacity to invite to help, we've had here in the US, as everyone in the world knows, a handful of, I'll just say, puzzling decisions coming from our leaders in this country.
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And that's to be as uh generous as I can with with the language.
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And we we know that lots of the nonprofits in our town that we know that we engage with don't know what's happening.
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And so we spun up a thing called the Uncertainty Summit.
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We invited nonprofits, we just let them come.
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We didn't charge for it because again, the space doesn't cost us anything extra for a day.
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Yeah, and we were able to uh give generously a sense of come think about it.
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We're gonna help you with some of the tools and approaches we have, plot a different path, not giving them that path because we don't present ourselves as experts.
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And again, it gave them room to have a conversation that they generally just have been too harried, too stressed to be able to have.
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And so again, the space gives us it's the coolest tool in a facilitator's toolkit that no one else has, or very few people do.
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Yeah.
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In other ways, it's very difficult to make it your own.
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Yeah, that is fascinating.
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And how have you as a so I can see the role as the host shifting?
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And what is the impact on the group in terms of power dynamics?
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It uh there's a a couple of things that change.
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I think the one thing that changes is because the space is built for the kinds of facilitation that we want to do, we have two big rooms.
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One that I'm sitting in here now with my desk, but we have a bunch of couches and chairs and comfortable spaces for breakouts.
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We have another room that has our gigantic 30-foot whiteboard in the front of it.
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Uh, has a big, gigantic television that we painted the wall black so no one can see it on a stage.
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And we make the table small, we make it really hard to plug in a laptop.
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Like all the things that we do to kind of we can design against their worst impulses is one way where power shows up, I think.
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The other way is that at the very beginning, when they come, I'm welcoming them to my place.
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Our other facilitator, Lauren, does the same, like, welcome to our space.
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:21.519
And just like you're a host, we could ask them, frankly, if we wanted to take your shoes off at the door, like someone might at their home.
00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:30.559
Uh, we don't, but like we've already shared that dynamic and it feels comfortable and interesting and creative and different.
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:49.359
And so we get so much goodwill from the very beginning, even from the skeptics who come in in a way that when they're coming straight from a meeting down the hall into a boardroom or training room, or they're coming down from their hotel room into a windowless ballroom, it just doesn't.
00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:55.759
We still work on the road quite a bit, but every time I'm on the road, I'm like, wow, like why can't I have filament here?
00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:57.039
Yeah.
00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:04.880
And I can imagine that it also helps the leaders relax because suddenly they're um they're the same.
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.640
They're also one of the guests.
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:07.519
Yes, yes.
00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:13.119
And and I think what all good facilitators do is we turn leaders into peers, right?
00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:14.559
Especially with the breakouts.
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:25.200
But what where it hit me probably at the most was the CEO of one of our biggest companies came in and he was visiting a session we were doing for one of his leaders.
00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:32.240
And that leader came up to me and said, Matt, what should I be doing for this next segment of the of the session?
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:38.480
And the CEO's like looked at me and snapped at him, like, Why are you asking this guy who is the space rental guy?
00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:40.000
Effectively is what he thought.
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:42.240
And our client said, No, no, no.
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:46.559
Matt has been guiding us through this entire two days with our team.
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:49.759
I've worked with him four times before at other companies.
00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:56.079
He's not a space rental place, he's our partner, peer, and guide.
00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:09.119
And that peer thing is another thing that's happened here in that when our space, we now can believe we are, and we're treated as our customers as their peer, no matter where they are in the hierarchy of their organization.
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:22.799
And that's difficult to do when everyone in the executive suite of the top floor of a building is nervous about offending the CEO or every word she might say.
00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:34.720
And I one of my favorite stories, we had uh a senior leader, and everyone at their offices, as we were planning, because they were live, they were right down the street, they were tiptoeing around, can we wear jeans?
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:36.240
What should the dress code be?
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:38.000
We've never seen our CEO wear jeans.
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:41.119
And I just told the CEO, I said, you know, I need you to wear jeans.
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:42.400
It's like, okay.
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:44.960
And and everyone was like, What?
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:47.759
Like, I'm like, because you're gonna be coming to my place.
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:52.079
And that would have that could have never happened in the traditional way that we used to work.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:52.880
Yeah.
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:53.519
Yeah.
00:20:53.680 --> 00:21:00.559
And still the the story where you were confused or called the space rental the guy.
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:09.359
I think it says so much about the importance of labels and how we tend to put people into compartments.
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:22.000
And I think this also how facilitators are often seen by those who are not used to work with facilitators or the woo-woo people who ask you to express how you feel and sit in a circle.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:33.200
Um and I haven't seen this downside of being confused with suddenly owning the space and being literally the spaceholder.
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:38.799
So you're um in your company that then you're all doing the same thing.
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:45.759
So there's no one who would be the go to person for the logistics and the space who would literally be the space guy.
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:51.680
Yeah, so we the the way we have uh we have someone who leads hospitality for us, and and she's amazing.
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:58.799
We have a full time artist who draws in every meeting, two facilitators, we have a project manager, a virtual admin.
00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:05.119
So we're probably Small team, but it it's when you sleep in your own bed, you can do more work.
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:19.759
And so we might have a week here at Filament, might have two, three, rarely four, but sometimes four days worth of events that versus the in the olden days, one day felt pretty good.
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:22.640
Like if I could do a day a week, it was a good living, right?
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:26.720
Uh, maybe a day every other week, a day every third week, depending upon how I priced it.
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:30.480
But we have a team that's that's committed to delivering a really great experience.
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:38.000
And again, because they're here all the time, our clients are here all the time, we we've started to realize what's important to them and what's not.
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.440
And it's not the kinds of things that event planners care about.
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:47.519
It's they don't care about lunch as long as it's okay, because all of the other things about the experience are different.
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.640
And still a very bad lunch or no lunch can destroy the entire experience.
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:53.599
Oh, absolutely.
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:59.839
But when you ask an event planner what people care about, they they care about the food, is what they'll say, or the coffee's hot.
00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:10.799
And it's because we we've built, and this is maybe straying into kind of bigger meetings, but we have so many places that build these amazing containers for terrible meetings to get poured inside of.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:20.079
And and we've kind of started from the like building from the middle, like from that center out versus from the outside in.
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:20.880
Yeah.
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:22.559
And is this a model?
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:24.640
Are you planning to expand?
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:28.400
Is this something that more cities could have?
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:34.000
Like a yeah, I'm thinking of this, um, yeah, models of co-working spaces.
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:35.920
So we are here in St.
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:37.279
Louis post-COVID.
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:41.759
We moved to uh an amazing space here in the center of the innovation district.
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:43.519
So we have a big innovation district here in St.
00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:43.920
Louis.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.200
Uh, they invited us in.
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:48.400
We don't pay rent to be here, we deliver programming to the district.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:51.200
So the business model is dramatically different.
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:57.920
We do monthly sessions uh around training uh and collaboration.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:06.559
We uh support the leadership of the district and their board, we do fun events, like we'll, but we'll do all things that are all kind of layered through with our DNA.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.319
And so what we've learned, it's taken us a while.
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:15.920
We've we've been at this 10 years, is that we now realize that what we're selling effectively is innovation as an amenity.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:24.799
And so we're starting to have conversations uh with other innovation districts who all have these spaces that are amazing but are not particularly activated.
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:30.000
And it's not just the co-working spaces, which is now a fairly undifferentiated uh amenity.
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:32.480
Like you've seen one, you've seen most of them.
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:35.119
But by having space, we do a couple things.
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:37.119
We invite people in who could be tenants.
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:38.400
We're like, oh, this is really great.
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:39.519
I'd like to work here.
00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:45.119
We're able to provide services at a discount to tenants who are already here as a benefit for being in that district.
00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:52.640
And we're also able to deliver and be an extension of that district, engaging with the community, working with nonprofits, doing other programming and things.
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:58.319
And so the the long answer to your short question is that we now finally think we've cracked the code.
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:03.920
It took some time to really figure out what our core uh value proposition is.
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:12.799
But I would expect that in the next two to three years we'll uh have passed to at least four to five additional filaments and maybe more.
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:13.599
Fascinating.
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:16.640
And two things came up that I would like to touch upon.
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:21.039
Um, I'll park the COVID question for a while.
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:24.720
You came out the other end, and I'm curious how.
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:35.200
Um, but before going there, all these innovation spaces that might look just the same that as yours, but things are not happening inside of them.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:36.240
What's the difference?
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:44.160
There was a and this may be before the shift uh that happened in workplace behaviors and and such and uh post-COVID.
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:55.359
But it's a long time that like real estate developers, whether they're developing innovation districts or uh big buildings in midtown Manhattan, used to think that amenities were differentiation.
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:59.759
So uh let's put a ping pong table in because that will show we're innovative.
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.119
Or let's have a coffee bar or let's upgrade the gym.
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:12.960
And it's an arms race they can't quite win because there's always a way to make the amenity better, make the lobby fancier, make the place seem cool.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:21.920
What rarely do we see happen is this intentionality around the services that that amenity can deliver to the tenants, right?
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:24.079
From how do we think about collaboration?
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:25.680
How do we just meet better?
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:27.279
Meetings are terrible.
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:32.960
Uh, we never thought we'd be in the meeting training business, but we're doing a lot of it now because everyone hates their meetings.
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:36.799
Uh, how do we think about solving problems with intention?
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:40.079
How do we think about connecting with others in the building?
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:47.680
That service layer in most spaces is done on an ad hoc basis if anyone owns it at all.
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:51.519
And it is almost always centered on happy hours and drinking.
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:55.440
And and that's one thing that has changed post-COVID.
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:59.119
People don't come to a Thursday afternoon happy hour quite as much as they once did.
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:04.480
But on top of that, that like we've always thought people connect better when they think together, not when they drink together.
00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:06.000
Oh, I love the sentence.
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:06.559
Thank you.
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:07.359
You're welcome.
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:14.319
And and so when when alcohol is at the centerpiece of some sort of engagement, it's unfriendlier to introverts.
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:17.119
It frankly is unfriendlier to women than it is to men.
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:26.079
And so we've always taken this approach of what's a different and better way to accomplish these things that this district that others might want to do.
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:35.599
And because we've got a common through line, because we've got a reputation, because we deliver other things, it is uh it's just been an easier and a better way to do it.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:41.599
And so again, another unexpected insight from from having the space and doing the work.
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:49.759
But like people come to filament things now because they know they're a filament thing and they trust us regardless of what the subject matter is or what the goal of the event might be.
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:53.920
Yeah, because it's created with intention and care.
00:27:54.400 --> 00:28:05.759
And I what I observe everywhere is that even with sports clubs, and I can imagine that in co-working spaces it's similar, if not even worse.
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:10.559
People come to a sports class and they don't look at each other.
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:21.279
They're all treating that so they're in the small space, they're sweating with each other, it's very intimate, and they don't even look at each other or share a word or say hello or bye.
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:22.160
Nothing of that.
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:28.000
And I as a facilitator, each time it kind of physically hurts.
00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:37.759
And I haven't been active in a co-working space for a while, but from the times I remember and the times I enter some, it's similar.
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:41.839
People go there, they don't look at anyone, they go to their table.
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:52.319
So it feels as if there's maybe a fear of connecting, or maybe it's because of the it's post-traumatic COVID.
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:54.720
What can you do to change that?
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:58.160
Maybe not in a yoga studio, but at least in a co-working space.
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:19.119
They think the challenge is more complicated than others, and they struggle to believe that others, that person sitting next to them can help them.
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:29.839
And so, in many ways, by giving them a framework, by giving them a uh a place, by giving them permission to say, here's what I'm working on, sometimes that's enough.
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.000
And we've realized, Miriam, is we use all of our tools, we use lots of these things we call tools sheets.
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:40.880
They're effectively canvases or worksheets, but we've learned that people's compulsion to follow directions overcomes their reluctance to share.
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:49.759
And so the moment that I say to a group, here's a framework, uh, I want you to think about a challenge that we all have, how might you address it?
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:54.720
Break them into small groups, give them the Sharpie to write on the sheet, they'll do it because there's a rule follower in every group.
00:29:54.880 --> 00:30:01.440
And then when they come back, it's not me sharing, it's our group sharing, even if I'm the one doing the readout.
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:26.640
And so by being able to find a common problem or challenge, giving them an artificial thing to think about, uh a constraint that feels silly but might lead to some more insight, people will gather and engage, but they need the permission, they need the framework, and they need to trust that it's not going to be silly, that it's not going to embarrass them, uh, that it's not going to feel frivolous.
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:46.079
And then so what I hear in that is um for co-working space to find a hook that is maybe a specific problem around which to gather um or just the permission to to speak to the person sitting in the office or in the desk next to one.
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:46.559
Right.
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:47.039
Yeah.
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:56.880
And although it's uh for a facilitator, it's obviously it's fantastic to know that people how did you say it?
00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:58.160
It sounds brilliant.
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:06.720
Um people are more um are easier to follow instructions than yeah, their their compulsion to follow instructions overcomes their reluctance to share.
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:07.759
Yes.
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:10.880
Is reassuring it is for a facilitator.
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:12.559
Isn't that scary as well?
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:15.680
And especially when we speak about innovation.
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:25.839
So isn't there a tension between the compulsion to follow instructions and don't we need those who also break the instructions, the rebels?
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:27.839
Is there a space for that?
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:28.799
100%.
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:34.319
And someone always tries to tries to break the exercise or deviate a bit from the work.
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:55.920
But the point is, and I think that that as a facilitator, we all I think appreciate this, that regardless of what the framework is we're using or the tool we're giving, as long as they're talking with one another about something that they all feel is important, and that is a that is uh attached at least tangentially to the work, is a win.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:01.200
And so I don't mind a bunch if I find one group taking a sh a bit of a tangent.
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:12.240
But the difference is if I say to them, Miriam, that I need you to talk about this for the next 30 minutes, they'll all take the tangent, and there's no way for me to tether them back and pull them back in without sitting in every group.
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:18.960
But if I say, if I say to them, here's the thing that I'm gonna make you fill out, yeah, that will guide their conversation.
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.000
At least it provides guardrails where the guardrails don't exist.
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:26.559
And then I could go to each group and say, you know, the quality of this conversation must be amazing.
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:31.920
You're clearly in first place there, but you're in last place on the quantity of words you've put on that sheet.
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:40.720
And it is just a small little joke, but all of a sudden, someone in that group will be like, oh, we gotta, we gotta get going and pull them back to the exercise.
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:57.519
And again, the only reason we use these tools is to it helps us scale facilitation to a room of a thousand people, if we have to, because we don't need to be guiding every group, every breakout through every stage gate of the conversation we want them to have.
00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:00.960
Yeah, where the framework is definitely a facilitator.
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:01.680
Yeah.
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:06.480
Yeah, and and that's also interesting where the prompts also matter.
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:31.839
I have the impression that if it's too if it's too wide and too leaves too much room for interpretation, then the groups go into tensions or spend their time with discussing what is actually meant, because it there's always someone who needs more control, needs more understanding, and then the entire group speaks about what to do and not how to do it.
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:32.640
Right.
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:45.839
Or if it's too scary and touches something that is maybe outside the comfort zone, then they also go on tangents just to distract themselves and to rather speak about something else.
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:50.240
One of the favorite frameworks that we've developed is called easy, hard, safe, crazy.
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:52.240
And it's literally four boxes on a sheet of paper.
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:56.880
But we'll we'll frame the question, and the question sometimes emerges during our work.
00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.599
Sometimes it's something we plan ahead with our customers.
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:01.519
But we start with the how might we question.
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:12.960
And then the four quadrants are some easy things we can do right away, some hard things we can begin to explore, some safe things everyone else is going to do too, and a few things so crazy they just might work.
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:28.239
And what we found, and again, it gets to the things that go unsaid in conversations, is that it's not so much that people are afraid to share crazy ideas, although some of them are, it's that they don't share the easy and the safe ones because they think everyone has already had them.
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:39.280
And so to be able to say to someone, there's a quote we have on the wall by Scott Birkin that says, you know, everything is obvious to someone, but nothing is obvious to everyone, something along those lines.
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:45.760
And so all of a sudden you'll see someone say, Well, this is easy, and everyone else's eyes get as big as saucers, but you're like, what a brilliant idea.
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:53.360
And it doesn't matter what box the ideas go in, but it's giving them permission to share in any way that they might identify it.
00:34:53.440 --> 00:35:00.320
And we found those four categories seem to capture the most and broadest variety of topics, and then they'll come back.
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:13.440
And that's an early exercise, it's more of a generative exercise, but you've now seen them have a conversation about things that might improve their organization, might make them work faster, might help them overcome their culture difficulties, whatever the challenge is.
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:20.639
And and it is just an amazing, simple, simple way to get them to share things that might go unsaid.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:23.599
Yeah, I love that on so many different levels.
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:29.280
It's also, I mean, the beauty of four boxes.
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:46.719
Easier than putting things into boxes um gives just enough boundaries to enhance our creativity, gives permission to share the something that we think are so mundane and so simple.
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:50.559
I wouldn't otherwise, or something that is so crazy that we wouldn't dare either.
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:52.880
But but we gotta have something in the crazy box.
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:53.119
Yeah.
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:55.440
So who's got a crazy idea, right?
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:56.400
Yeah.
00:35:56.800 --> 00:36:11.199
And and then all the different discussions that then can then even emerge from the box as you zoom in, because the easy ideas, or okay, is it so easy that we have overlooked it, or is it so easy that our competitors will do it?
00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:16.880
Is it so easy that we're actually underestimating some challenges?
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:18.239
What are we not seeing?
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:20.000
Where's our blind spot?
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:27.039
So depending on how to look at each of these boxes, can create different conversations.
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:37.360
And on top of that, there's a surprise of these boxes because it's not the how do you call the general four boxes with the challenges and the risks?
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:38.320
SWAT.
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:39.679
Oh, the SWAT analysis.
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:40.400
Oh, I hate the SWAT.
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:45.840
Yeah, everyone is tired of the SWAT because been there, done there, done there.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.480
Um and yours is not that different.
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:50.800
So the same things could be in there.
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.719
We have uh we have another one that's very similar called none sumlots all.
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:57.440
And we just have them take a snapshot of the organization.
00:36:57.599 --> 00:36:59.199
What happens if we don't change anything?
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:02.960
What happens if we can kind of nibble around the edges and change some things?
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:07.679
If we could change lots of things, and then what if we could start with a blank sheet of paper and change absolutely everything?
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.000
And again, it's just it's the conversation.
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:25.679
The the tool is so small in the scheme of the ways you want them to talk, but it gives them a place to take those conversations in a way that as an individual guide you can do in a small room, but then the extroverts always win, right?
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:29.519
They're the ones who always because uh like me, I can't think without talking.
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:31.039
I've learned that about myself.
00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:32.559
Yes, me too.
00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:36.880
We are terrible for people who think to speak, they hate us.
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:37.679
Right.
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:38.480
Yes.
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:40.400
Sorry, I interrupted you.
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:41.519
No, no, it's okay.
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:49.519
Just the the the the tools, the frameworks, the the they allow us to get the most out of out of our out of our folks.
00:37:49.599 --> 00:38:03.280
And also, it also shortens our preparation time because there we have a lot of these kind of evergreen generic exercises that we know work as long as we frame them and prime them with the right question, we use them at the right time.
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:15.119
And each filament meeting looks and feels different, but there's a handful of things that you know I can go to the closet and say, okay, this is the exercise we didn't think we needed, but we need now, and here it is.
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:16.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:28.559
I'm I just want to express, and sometimes it's so easy to forget how valuable the simplicity of some exercise or tools are.
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:45.280
And then we get excited with new tools and fancy things and forget that sometimes the and there is actually this is a perfect spot where simplicity meets um the boundaries.
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:52.559
So we want to be very specific in what we ask, but not so specific that we just get the generic.
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:53.360
Right.
00:38:53.920 --> 00:39:12.239
And I was wondering whether this might and thinking the thought, maybe it's ridiculous, but um whether it's something that you acquired from your previous life as a lawyer, where the talent is in interpret so there's huge restrictions, right?
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:23.519
You have all these paragraphs, you have all these laws, and they are as they are, and still you it's your task to find the creativity, the flexibility, the nuance within them.
00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:26.400
It's funny, I I I I've never thought of it that way.
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:39.199
I I think that lawyers often believe they're being paid to make things more complicated because it then reinforces their expertise as the only ones who can decipher this language that they've that they use.
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:44.639
So it's a little bit of self-fulfilling, almost a flywheel of the more lawyers get involved, the more nuanced.
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:46.559
The how do I show that I'm smart?
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:48.880
How do I show that I brought value?
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:50.480
It's also billing by the hour.
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:51.840
That's a whole nother conversation.
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.199
That the longer I take to do anything, something, the more money I make.
00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:02.400
And where we've really boiled so many things down to simplicity is it comes to the fact that you've got to describe how to do it.
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:07.039
And and I saw this in COVID when we were trying to explore all these different tools to use online.
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:11.440
And no matter what the tool was, if it was new to someone, one third of people would not be able to figure it out.
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:22.400
And and that has really shown up both before and after in our tools that the tool needs to be so basic that it doesn't need a facilitator to guide them for through.
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:24.320
It's the hey, here's what you're gonna do.
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:25.760
The instructions are on the sheet.
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:27.679
Go do it, I'll tell you when to come back.
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:30.880
Like that's almost the way that I want all of our tools to work.
00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:56.159
Some have a bit more nuance, but getting people the capacity to giving them the mind space to think about the problem they're solving and not also the instructions on how to solve, how to engage with a tool that helps them solve the problem, it pulls more of their attention and insight into why they're there and not to also decipher our process we're using for them to get to where they need to be.
00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:56.960
Yeah.
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:01.039
And then I'm I'm thinking about what you said previously.
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:08.400
So other facilitators coming to your space um and creating not good enough experiences.
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:33.519
What is it that distinguishes because if you're using and I'm thinking of about that, as you mentioned, that um lawyers want to make it complicated so that they stand out at the experts, it could be easy as a facilitator to fall into that trap to make it as complex and then groups rely on us to facilitate it because otherwise they wouldn't.
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:39.760
Or you have to sell um and spend a lot of money to get certified in a certain method.
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.320
So, what is it if you take all that away and you make the method and the tool so simple?
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:46.079
What is left in your perspective?
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:53.519
For us, I think the the simplicity is the it allows us as facilitators to do our best work.
00:41:53.599 --> 00:42:03.920
Um, because we're not at once trying to put people into a dilemma of something they can't understand and then show our expertise to extricate them from that same dilemma.
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:13.760
Uh it so for us, what I'm meeting here at Filament is different because we trust our clients more than I think most facilitators do, to the point of what we're talking about.
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:15.360
The space feels different.
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:21.519
They're constantly in small groups, they're using these tools, they're coming back, they're reporting out, we're sharing, we're unpacking, and we rinse and repeat.
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:23.280
We draw, so we don't have PowerPoint.
00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:24.480
That's a big differentiator for us.
00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:29.280
I don't hate PowerPoint, but I know that I'm the first meeting they've had in years that did not have any PowerPoint involved.
00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:31.440
It's a big differentiator for us.
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:37.840
But the simpler it is, what we find happen is that it allows them to have the conversations that they just never get to have.
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:40.639
And we get credit for that, even if we're not in everyone.
00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:45.599
And on top of that, we generally give the tools that we've used in an event to them to continue to use.
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:48.800
And I've had people come to me and say, Man, I I love that framework that you use.
00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:50.559
I'm like, You've never worked with us before.
00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:51.440
Where'd you get it?
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:57.679
Oh, my husband brought it back from a nonprofit session that he led or that his company or his team led.
00:42:58.239 --> 00:42:59.360
We use it all the time.
00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:04.400
And so the the simpler the tools are, the more likely people are to continue to engage with them.
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:09.280
But I don't want to shine because I have something complicated to give you to think through.
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:14.079
If you're coming to us and paying the money to use this, you've got something complicated you already need to think through.
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:17.039
I don't want to layer additional complexity of mine on top of yours.
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:17.920
I love that.
00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:18.400
Yeah.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:36.559
And what just came to my mind is um a recent experience leaguing a train the trainer was um about the groups would go through a self-assessment and then in the coaching session with a group, it's all about interpreting the results of the assessment.
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:47.840
And what the core of this train the trainer was to be able to allow the results to just be the results.
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:56.960
And most probably there is no value in these results because everyone is biased, half of the people misunderstood the question.
00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.519
So there is in the worst case.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.360
It's absolutely wrong.
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:05.199
And still it's important because it's a um conversation opener.
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:27.519
So if and I'm I'm just thinking back of that to that, thinking about the tools, if we come in with the complicated tools, we get married or or we fall in love with the results that this tool uh raises, and then we lose the openness to allow other things outside of that to emerge.
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:45.280
So if if I would or if the trainers that I trained would spend hours to analyze the results of the team assessment, then they would spend hours to present their solution, which is worthless to the team as long as they don't feel the ownership and engage.
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:51.440
Yeah, you know, one of the things that that we uh uh we'll kick off lots of our meetings with the framework we get, oh, I actually have one right here.
00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:54.880
There's a little half page cards and it says, I wish, I wonder, I worry.
00:44:55.519 --> 00:45:06.320
And so the question as I think about the meeting we're about to begin, as I think about our companies next year, as I think about the project we're kicking off, whatever the prompt is, I wish we would, I wonder if we could, and I worry that we won't.
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:08.400
And so people take just a moment to fill it out.
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:11.679
We call on someone, we always ask the volunteer to go first or last.
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:13.039
They're so always joke.
00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:13.519
I'll go last.
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:15.679
Okay, okay, then make them pick the person to go first.
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:18.000
And and we just ask, share one of the three.
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:22.639
And so someone might, you can see where the worries are, the what like and they'll they'll choose.
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:24.480
But each person picks the next person to go.
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:27.840
So I don't have to be the bad guy calling on people from the very beginning.
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:36.159
And it can unpack, we can unpack over 10 minutes or an hour and a half the nuance of what they're thinking.
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:42.079
And it validates for others, oh, everything people have already said, all the things I had on my card or what have you.
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:44.000
We collect the cards, we scan them.
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.960
Uh, I have an AI that reads everyone's terrible handwriting.
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:56.480
And we're now able to give back to effectively our customers a sentiment analysis of what the room was thinking about that day about this thing.
00:45:57.280 --> 00:46:02.639
And and what's so cool about it is again, it's the easiest, simplest thing.
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:04.320
It takes a minute to describe.
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:18.960
The instructions are on the card, but it leads you down the path of a conversation they want to have versus you assuming that we have to begin with this presentation or this data or this analysis.
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:23.679
And as a facilitator, the questions you ask are tell me more.
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:26.960
Like what do you what do you mean by that?
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:27.840
And that's it.
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:31.519
And and now an hour of your day has gone through, everyone has been heard.
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:35.440
They've had a chance to introduce themselves quickly with a name and a title if they feel important to them.
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:39.920
But the simpler the frameworks, the the better it feels to the customers.
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:52.159
And frankly, the easier it is to modify and keep playing with them because you're sharing you're changing one little piece of it versus having to go back into a complicated thing that you've built over years.
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.599
It's why SWOT actually works as much as I hate it.
00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:03.519
There's four things, and the words in the initials are the things you're talking about, and the strengths, the weaknesses, the opportunities, threats, etc.
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:12.960
And so we just keep on looking for other things like that that that we can own, you know, I literally or figuratively, because people also, there's value in the novelty.
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:19.519
Oh, I've not had this approach before, versus what you said earlier, like, oh, who's gonna stand the flip chart and start writing these things down?
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:20.320
Yeah.
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:20.800
Yeah.
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:27.519
And I love how you uh just mentioned how you introduce or include the digital and AI.
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:30.320
What have you learned from COVID?
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:34.159
So as a businessman and as a facilitator.
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:41.599
So as a one of our one of our core tenants has always been we want to do in-person things you have to be together to do.
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:45.119
And so information delivery is not one of those things.
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:47.039
Insight discovery is.
00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:53.599
And so we built our first four and a half years of this business on only doing in-person stuff.
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:57.599
We wouldn't do hybrid and we rarely did virtual.
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:06.239
We had a couple signals from clients as COVID was just starting to make the news where they were telling us it's gonna be real, it's gonna be more serious than anyone thinks.
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:14.079
A gigantic insurance company, one of our universities, like they knew that it wasn't here in the US, a hundred people on a cruise ship, right?
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:15.679
And it wasn't gonna be done by Easter.
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:22.639
And so we started to invest relatively quickly in increasing our capacity to do this work online.
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:34.480
And as I mentioned earlier, we tried every tool and realized that unless our clients were gonna give us an extra hour of walking through the laggards and how to use it, they weren't particularly effective for us.
00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:37.840
And so technologically, we ended up just using Google Slides.
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:47.920
We would put our worksheets on a slide, we would give everyone the link because nearly everyone can get a Google thing through their IT department, and they would break out and we would use Zoom breakout rooms again.
00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:50.480
Like the the the we used that we made it as simple as possible.
00:48:50.559 --> 00:49:00.239
But the biggest lesson we learned is that we got called to do some work that I would have otherwise said no to because it was necessary, it was in the sciences.
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:06.079
And so we actually did really well in COVID after that first two months of terror.
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:14.239
All our meetings canceled, like we had$200,000 worth of meetings cancel in a single day, which was at that point a really significant part of our revenue.
00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:16.320
The first month, no one did anything.
00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:19.280
The second month, everyone thought they could do it themselves.
00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:25.119
And by the third month, they realized that their meetings were even worse than before and they needed some help.
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:29.280
And once we got to that third month, COVID wasn't great for anyone.
00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:36.800
But the learnings we had, the validation that the tools and approaches we had that worked in the room worked really well virtually.
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:42.239
Because again, the breakout rooms, the popping from room to room, just like we do here, the tools were the same.
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:47.679
And the moment we peeled the complexity back out of the process, it was amazing.
00:49:48.159 --> 00:50:02.719
And we also were able to do some work that we would have said no to because it would have seemed outside of our wheelhouse, too complex, rooms full of PhDs, talking about satellite imagery or uh crop sites.
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:04.880
But the tools and the conversations work.
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:06.800
We don't have to be smart about the conversations they're having.
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:09.920
We just had to be smart about ways to get them to have the conversation.
00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:15.679
And we continue to use those lessons even back when we're mostly in person again in the work we do today.
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:16.239
Yeah.
00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:22.320
And what have you learned as a businessman from losing 200,000 in a day?
00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:41.519
As a business person, think smarter about accounts receivable, get paid the moment the contract's signed, even if it's shocking to me how small a discount large corporations will take if will pay how fast large corporations will pay big dollars if they can save a percent or two.
00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:47.440
So we've front-loaded a bunch of our uh bunch of the way our contracts work.
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:52.400
We have gotten better at the process on how we qualify customers.
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:55.840
And I think the other thing is that uh, and and Blair Enns says this.
00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:04.960
He talks about how the the sample is the sale, is we would do these things called sketch sessions, whenever clients would hire us and they'd hire us, we'd sign the contract, we'd do it all that.
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:10.639
And then we would come together, we draw with 90 minutes with them on the whiteboard and talk about their event.
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:17.119
And we realized that if we just gave that part away for free, we would accomplish a couple of things.
00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:24.639
One is we would have them invite their advocates and heretics into the mix and they could see how we'd work before the contract got signed.
00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:28.639
So they had a sense to understand how we were different, often in our space or even virtually.
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:34.159
And then we would often realize the scope of the work would increase because they're like, oh, here's another problem we have.
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:38.800
That I wish, I wonder, I worry is the best sales set of questions ever.
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:50.239
And so we would find that we started doing that in COVID, but we started to realize that the lessons we learned in COVID shifted our entire the way we think about our funnel, the way that we engage, the way that we sell.
00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:52.719
And it has been transformative for the business.
00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:55.679
So if I thank you for sharing that.
00:51:55.760 --> 00:51:57.920
I find this very, very inspiring.
00:51:58.239 --> 00:52:18.159
So if I understand you correctly, you would have a pre-conversation, which is basically a sales conversation, that you would sketch so you visualize what they explain, what their core problem is, and maybe some first idea somehow to solve it or to at least identify where the gap is and how you can help them to solve it.
00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:21.119
And they would bring more than just the client.
00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:25.440
So we we did one yesterday, the day before yesterday, that they brought seven people in.
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:38.480
So all of a sudden, now before we've identified exactly what the scope is, before we have proposed a contract, before they've gotten a price from us, we've had seven leaders for an hour and a half sampling what it means and feels like to work with us.
00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:43.039
That's a high investment from their side in the beginning.
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:47.119
And psychologically, so they have invested already.
00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:50.159
So they're part of it's like the IKEA effect.
00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:54.880
So they've been part of the building, so they want to keep it on continue.
00:52:55.360 --> 00:53:00.719
And if you have seven people, the likelihood of having at least one who says, why not?
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:07.119
And and now we've built seven people who can go back to their organization and explain what they've heard.
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:11.360
We send them the pictures of the visuals we've created, and they see us work.
00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:17.519
And and and this is another piece of having space, Miriam, that is different is that I can schedule a couple of those a day.
00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:21.440
Like I don't have to get on an airplane to go do that with an artist.
00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:23.920
So the cost of that to us is relatively minimal.
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:24.559
Yeah.
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:34.480
What I find fascinating is often we say we want to minimize the group, we want to speak only with those who are the decision makers, especially for these early conversations.
00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:39.119
And you're doing the exact opposite for very smart reasons.
00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:56.239
And at the same time, thereby also showing them that it is possible to have a conversation and an exchange of ideas with such a large group, where I would say 99 of the cases beforehand, having seven people in a room without a facilitator is always a nightmare.
00:53:57.199 --> 00:53:57.840
It is.
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:06.880
And and we uncover so much more from them and about them than we ever would have gotten in a sales conversation because it doesn't feel like a sales conversation.
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:11.599
That that was the big epiphany, is that you know no one felt it was a sales conversation.
00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:16.159
It's a conversation about their challenges and and just learning more about them.
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:23.039
Yeah, it's leading selling through care and content instead of pushing them.
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:29.519
And I think nowadays it's we're bombarded with everyone has the best solution for us anyway.
00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:35.519
We're bombarded with cold, cold sales calls or emails.
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:37.280
Um, they all sound the same.
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:50.559
So I think to get this extra care to be listened to, I can see that there's value, and then to get it for f to already get value for free, then there's the entire reciprocity mechanism switching on in our brain.
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:52.639
Oh, we received this nice drawing now.
00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:53.760
We really want to work with them.
00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:59.920
And and we ask them to bring the people who will be most challenging on their teams to the process.
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:00.639
That's what I talk about.
00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:02.800
You can convince them and they don't have to.
00:55:03.039 --> 00:55:03.199
Right.
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:05.840
The uh like that's why we say bring your advocates and heretics.
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:14.239
I want to I want you to bring the people who you're most concerned about this, and who will be the otherwise the ones who are you know bitching and moaning.
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:15.760
Why are we doing something different?
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:17.840
Why don't we like like the ones who complain?
00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:24.079
Like I if they're in the room, at least now they go back and say they're on the planning team, right?
00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:28.480
It it it it takes the teeth out of their criticism a bit.
00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:37.119
And even when they still are skeptical, they've now seen us address their skepticism in the work we're doing, even in that early process.
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:44.480
And see that it's okay and maybe even favored to have the skepticism because you can work with that.
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:47.280
If everyone agrees, they wouldn't need you anyway.
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:56.320
And to I think to find the joy in this disagreement and the creativity that's a could can be a big learning moment for them as well.
00:55:56.639 --> 00:56:00.239
And if they're all skeptics, we might realize we don't want to work with them.
00:56:01.119 --> 00:56:04.000
Has it happened to you that that you said maybe we're not for you?
00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:05.519
Only a couple times.
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:22.559
Uh, and it was pretty clear from the get-go that the person who was bringing them in was was not didn't have uh power's not the right word, but they they were we were too big a difference for them in an organization that might not be good at taking any risks.
00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:28.079
So ideally we'd be great for them, but we'd also realize that their team just wasn't ready for something like this.
00:56:28.239 --> 00:56:32.559
And other times we've just realized like they've rescheduled 10 times, right?
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:34.480
They can't bring the team in.
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:40.559
And at that moment, we realize like this is a signal to us about the rest of the engagement, so we're not a fit.
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:51.840
And oftentimes we're just able to price that high enough that they decide against it, uh, or at least makes it easier for us to justify doing the work because we know it's gonna be a lot of extra hand holding and engagement.
00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:52.639
Yeah.
00:56:52.880 --> 00:57:04.000
And funny enough, then putting a higher price tag on it also pushes them to really commit and stick to the work because um have to walk the talk.
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:04.320
Yeah.
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:06.079
Put the mouth where the money was.
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:06.559
That's right.
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:07.199
Yeah.
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:09.920
What remains your facilitation challenge?
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:18.079
So this is where facilitator and business person overlap is I'm here in a town, and and it goes back, Maryam, to your very first question.
00:57:18.159 --> 00:57:20.320
Like, when did you first start calling yourself a facilitator?
00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:23.039
Is that as we think about growth, both here in St.
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:42.239
Louis, the work we do on the road, but also looking at other locations, the finding other people who can do this work well is crucial for us because our like the we the clients want to hire someone who's gonna do the work with them, not a salesperson who will hand them off to a facilitator.
00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:46.239
And and we realize that our model is a bit different, the way that we work is a bit different.
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:50.239
We're a bit more opinionated in some ways than the purely neutral facilitator.
00:57:50.480 --> 00:57:52.000
So we have to have stories to tell.
00:57:52.079 --> 00:58:03.119
And I joked about the gray hair, it's not gray hair, but it's being perceived, having the capacity to believe yourself as and being perceived as a peer to the most senior people in the room.
00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:15.840
Because the moment you're in awe of someone who might be someone that you see on the news or that you know is making made a billion dollars last year, you've lost.
00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:24.000
And so the challenge we have is codifying our process a bit, but finding others who can deliver it.
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:31.920
And because to your point about facilitator, the best facilitators rarely have facilitators on their LinkedIn profile.
00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:37.679
They're artists, musicians, creative directors, lawyers, teachers, right?
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:45.679
They realize that they've got this natural knack for getting smart people to think together better, but they've never identified themselves or called themselves facilitators.
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:48.480
So it makes it harder to find those people.
00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:49.280
Yeah.
00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:58.480
And also speaking to the authority, power dynamic, there is still kind of a weird label on facilitator.
00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:02.559
That's why some would prefer to call themselves uh consultants.
00:59:02.880 --> 00:59:09.440
We we talk about being, and this this is one of the promises we make to our clients is we are catalysts, not consultants.
00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:23.360
Because even though some might view us as that, we have been really intentional about avoiding that word for our work because a consultant needs to be perceived as having expertise in a given domain.
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:26.079
And clients like, oh, we want to be innovative.
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:28.880
Who exactly like us have you done this exact same work with before?
00:59:29.119 --> 00:59:29.280
Right?
00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:30.639
It's the kind of question you get.
00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:49.360
As a facilitator, we're able to work across 40 or 50 different industry verticals, uh, nonprofits, educational institutions, government, big corporations, small businesses, because we even though we realize that, and I've learned this uh one of my favorite lessons is that everybody's broken in the same five ways.
00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:54.639
They all think they're broken in completely unique ways, and they all assume they're more broken than everybody else.
00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:58.639
And so people like, oh my goodness, you don't know our industry.
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:00.159
Do you have problems communicating?
01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:00.880
Yeah.
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:03.039
Is your strategy clear to your team?
01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:03.679
No.
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:10.000
Uh are you worried about technology changing the landscape of your work?
01:00:10.159 --> 01:00:10.480
Yeah.
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:12.800
Like, I mean, it's it, there's all the same things.
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:27.360
And so where our clients and where we've leaned into this from a value proposition as being facilitators versus consultants, Miriam, is that you know, I can tell someone if you want a consultant who knows your industry who will give you the playbook they've given to all your competitors, that's what you do.
01:00:27.519 --> 01:00:36.320
But if you want someone who can pull together some interesting threads from different industries, completely different sectors, then we can add more value.
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:36.960
Yeah.
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:45.199
And I think the Monday morning argument, do you want people to actually get onto the doing after the workshop on Monday morning?
01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:48.800
Uh if they build the solution themselves, yes, they will.
01:00:49.119 --> 01:00:57.679
If they were handed over the handbook on how to change the how to change the company now to survive, uh probably not.
01:00:58.079 --> 01:00:58.320
Yeah.
01:00:59.199 --> 01:01:00.880
You use the n-word.
01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:03.039
And I'm very curious.
01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:06.239
Neutrality is the big some facilitator.
01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:12.960
Thank you for defining what the n-word is, because if that's said and that's the only clip that comes out of the out of this thing.
01:01:13.519 --> 01:01:14.079
Oh gee.
01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:15.280
Yes, thank you.
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:15.840
Thank you.
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:18.800
Neutrality.
01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:20.400
Yes, neutrality.
01:01:20.719 --> 01:01:21.679
Oh, whoa, whoa.
01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:23.119
Um, I haven't even thought of that.
01:01:23.199 --> 01:01:24.239
How naive am I?
01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:29.440
And maybe it's yeah, outside the US, we are maybe less sensitive to that.
01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:31.039
The neutrality word.
01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:33.360
Oops.
01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:36.719
Um recalibrating.
01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:40.639
And you said that you're um less you're opinionated.
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:41.360
I love that.
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:43.039
I would love to hear more about that.
01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:50.960
We part of why our clients, I think, enjoy our work is because they get ideas from us, not just from themselves.
01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:53.440
When we do our best work, people are in small groups.
01:01:53.679 --> 01:01:56.880
I hummingbird from group to group, or the facilitator does.
01:01:57.039 --> 01:01:59.360
And we might be able to say, have you thought about this?
01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:04.000
Or here's something another one of our clients has done, or here's an idea for you.
01:02:04.239 --> 01:02:12.639
And and in the breakouts, when we do it well, they either take that idea or discard it, but they come back and it's their idea, it's not ours.
01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:18.239
But we're I I've always struggled with the complete neutrality of facilitators.
01:02:18.320 --> 01:02:21.360
And I know that there's a school of thought that that is the only way to facilitate.
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:27.199
But in the front of the room, when they come back and gather, I will push them hard sometimes.
01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:31.280
I will be able to not only ask the questions, but say things that they can't say.
01:02:31.519 --> 01:02:44.960
And again, this is where being able to be viewed as a peer elevates your capacity and the permission your clients give to you to treat them as such and to be offering insight and advice.
01:02:45.199 --> 01:02:57.519
Now, we never tell them what to do, but uh it's not uncommon for me to be dismissive potentially of something that isn't a big enough idea for them, oftentimes with humor.
01:02:58.960 --> 01:03:07.440
Very rare, very rarely with judgment, but they're hiring us because of the work we've done, uh, and not just because of the process.
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:13.360
And so that's where I find myself, and and it's one of the most difficult parts is how do I not stray too far?
01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:18.559
And because we also we've also been in those worlds, all of us, where we know the answer because we've seen it last week.
01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:23.119
And so I'm very careful not to cross that boundary.
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:27.440
But I might suggest in a handful of groups, hey, have you thought about this?
01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:28.000
Yeah.
01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:35.199
So that that's one of that's one of those things that the older I've gotten, the less worried I am about it.
01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:42.000
Uh, because I also realize that when clients come to visit us, that's one of the things that we've sold them to expect.
01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:43.760
Yeah.
01:03:44.079 --> 01:04:01.440
And I think there's a nuance whether you let someone struggle and there's no need to struggle, and giving them a little push a hint, a new direction would just elevate them on a next level, as opposed to giving them the solution, end of story.
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:06.719
And I think the neutrality, so for me, the neutrality is um in the outcome.
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:11.199
I'm not attached to what you agree upon in the end.
01:04:11.360 --> 01:04:14.480
And that's as much neutrality that um I have.
01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:15.039
Right.
01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:20.400
Because otherwise, yeah, I think as humans, to be fully neutral, very difficult.
01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:30.000
And and it in some ways the neutrality, and again, this isn't this isn't the way that the best facilitators use it, but it's it's a bit of saying, I don't care what you do.
01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:32.719
And that's rarely true.
01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:41.440
Like I care what uh whether it's the the team members you've brought, the impact on your culture, the impact on a community because you're a nonprofit.
01:04:41.599 --> 01:04:42.639
I mean, like, I care.
01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:48.400
And I've always believed, and it's kind of the core of of who we are, is the world works better when people meet better.
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:50.880
And I want them to work better.
01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:54.639
I want them to get to a place where they've made progress.
01:04:54.880 --> 01:05:02.480
And sometimes that requires a bit more prescriptive facilitation versus the complete neutral whatever you all think.
01:05:02.639 --> 01:05:02.880
Yeah.
01:05:03.039 --> 01:05:05.599
And I think they are also nuances of neutrality.
01:05:05.679 --> 01:05:12.880
So it it can we can be very neutral with lots of care because we believe in them and don't want to give it away.
01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:16.480
And I think there are moments where it makes sense to be totally neutral.
01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:17.440
But uh course.
01:05:17.679 --> 01:05:18.079
Yeah.
01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:23.280
Final question What is it that you wished you had known before?
01:05:23.440 --> 01:05:25.920
Or what advice would you give to your younger self?
01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:30.960
So uh only partially joking, it would have been to go to business school versus law school.
01:05:31.599 --> 01:05:37.440
Um I though I love being a lawyer and it's taken me in places that I would have never, never imagined.
01:05:37.760 --> 01:05:50.239
But I think the advice I would have given myself that's that's that's a bit more serious than that, is to lean in to my creativity and my instincts sooner than I did.
01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:59.760
And whether that shows up as it may be imposter syndrome to some, but there were lots of times when the things that were obvious to me, I thought.
01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:07.679
Wouldn't work because I wasn't seeing them in the world, whether it was an approach, whether it was a business or a way to think about this work.
01:06:08.159 --> 01:06:14.159
And I've made, I always love the idea of calling some mistakes or failure tuition versus failure.
01:06:14.400 --> 01:06:16.559
Because like I'm willing to pay tuition to learn a lesson.
01:06:16.639 --> 01:06:18.960
I just don't want to pay to take the same class twice.
01:06:19.280 --> 01:06:20.159
I love that.
01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:25.119
And and I I didn't trust myself early enough.
01:06:25.280 --> 01:06:28.719
I doubted myself still as the business was progressing.
01:06:28.880 --> 01:06:30.159
And like, why is this working?
01:06:30.239 --> 01:06:31.920
There's got to be something I'm missing, sort of thing.
01:06:32.079 --> 01:06:43.920
So the advice I'd give is is to lean in a bit more to the instincts and perhaps even find ways to test them sooner to build those proof points that build confidence earlier in my career versus later.
01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:45.199
Love that.
01:06:45.519 --> 01:06:45.920
Thank you.
01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:46.480
Thank you.
01:06:46.880 --> 01:06:49.760
Is we almost spoke for one and a half hours.
01:06:50.079 --> 01:06:54.239
Is there anything that you wanted to share that we haven't touched upon yet?
01:06:55.119 --> 01:07:03.280
I uh I do have it, it's it's something that I do out of uh it's a labor of love for me, but it may be one of the coolest things we've built at Filament.
01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:04.719
And I'll give you the link to share.
01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:07.039
We created this thing called Thanksgiving here in St.
01:07:07.199 --> 01:07:07.599
Louis.
01:07:07.760 --> 01:07:10.159
It's a thing that pairs businesses with nonprofits.
01:07:10.400 --> 01:07:13.519
What we realized is that our our clients had the same challenges.
01:07:13.760 --> 01:07:19.760
And so what we do is we work with nonprofits here in our town and we help them come up with a challenge that can't be about money.
01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:21.760
Otherwise, they would all be about money.
01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:25.679
And we then uh uh invite business partners in.
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:27.840
So mostly teams from businesses.
01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:29.039
We have a draft.
01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:33.119
So they pick a challenge, but they don't know the nonprofit it belongs to till after they're paired.
01:07:33.280 --> 01:07:36.800
And then we teach the business partners how to run an innovation day.
01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:42.320
We build the tools, we do a workshop with them, but on a single day, they all gather.
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:45.199
So the business partners bring a team of four or five.
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:51.599
Uh, oftentimes for them, now it's younger emerging professionals, high growth potential leaders.
01:07:51.760 --> 01:08:04.559
And then the nonprofits bring a similar size team of the executive leader, a person close to the problem, maybe a board member, a volunteer, a constituent they serve, and they spend a day here in our innovation district working on those problems.
01:08:04.719 --> 01:08:09.840
And we've learned that the nonprofits never take the time to work on problems that aren't attached to their survival.
01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:21.680
So they might think about culture or team or strategy or scaling and offering or pricing or those sorts of things that they never otherwise give themselves the time to think deeply about.
01:08:22.560 --> 01:08:27.119
The business partners recognize that those problems are very similar to the ones that they have.
01:08:27.279 --> 01:08:31.439
And we ask them to partner, not be saviors, but to think creatively about the problems.
01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:35.760
And by the end of the day, we have what looks like a middle school science sphere.
01:08:35.920 --> 01:08:42.960
Everyone has these poster boards where they talk about the problem, the potential solutions, the experiments they're going to try, what they'll do next.
01:08:43.119 --> 01:08:49.439
They make an unreasonable request to the world, something that would be meaningful to change their trajectory as a nonprofit.
01:08:49.680 --> 01:08:53.760
But we've brought as many as 800 people together for this day.
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.079
We had last year was about 50.
01:08:56.159 --> 01:08:59.439
The year before, we had 70 nonprofits all got help in a single day.
01:08:59.600 --> 01:09:01.119
And I share that for two reasons.
01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:10.560
One is I it's just I love the way that facilitators can think about doing good that isn't, and the business partners pay us, but the nonprofits participate for free.
01:09:10.640 --> 01:09:14.079
But it's also a thing for me that had we never had space, it could have never happened.
01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:32.960
And so I've just loved being able to kind of realize that this unique set of skills that we as facilitators have, the communities we're parts of, that we can think creatively to do some amazing things that have impact beyond just us being in the room.
01:09:33.119 --> 01:09:36.800
And that for me has been one of the most rewarding things about it now.
01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:42.159
We've had 160 or 70 not different nonprofits in our town have have gone through Thanksgiving.
01:09:42.319 --> 01:09:46.319
Some have said it's the best day they've ever spent when it comes to the future of their organization.
01:09:46.479 --> 01:09:54.880
And it's all because we had a unique vantage point on playing in both worlds a bit and the curiosity of like, what if we got them together?
01:09:55.039 --> 01:09:55.760
What could we do?
01:09:56.159 --> 01:10:00.159
So that's the last piece I'll share just because it's something I'm deeply proud of.
01:10:00.239 --> 01:10:01.680
Uh and we'll share the link.
01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:03.279
It's it's it's pretty cool.
01:10:03.600 --> 01:10:05.039
Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
01:10:05.199 --> 01:10:09.039
And I can totally see how it's valuable for the businesses.
01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:16.159
Because one of the coaching questions is what would you advise your best friend if they shared the same problem?
01:10:16.319 --> 01:10:16.720
Right?
01:10:16.960 --> 01:10:21.119
So when we look at the problems of others, it's so easy to find solutions.
01:10:21.279 --> 01:10:24.560
And as you mentioned before, very often they have the same problems.
01:10:24.880 --> 01:10:28.399
So then, oh, what if we applied that to ourselves?
01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:33.520
Because most of our advice to others is actually us projecting our problems on them.
01:10:34.640 --> 01:10:36.640
Yes, yes, it is.
01:10:37.039 --> 01:10:44.239
And and and and those business partners all of a sudden get connected to the community and to a problem they might not have ever knew existed.
01:10:44.399 --> 01:10:44.560
Yeah.
01:10:44.800 --> 01:10:50.000
I do have one last thing I'll share just because it's something that hit us literally and figuratively last week, is uh St.
01:10:50.079 --> 01:10:53.279
Louis, Missouri got hit by a terrible tornado last Friday.
01:10:53.520 --> 01:10:58.399
And uh you see any opportunity to support relief efforts here in St.
01:10:58.560 --> 01:11:00.640
Louis, uh, it would be deeply appreciated.
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:08.800
The communities that were impacted most were the ones, almost as always, who have the least capacity to respond and to come out of it better on the other side.
01:11:09.039 --> 01:11:14.079
So if you're looking for a donation to make, take a look at some of the nonprofits here in St.
01:11:14.159 --> 01:11:15.199
Louis who are doing great work.
01:11:15.279 --> 01:11:20.640
The tornado was devastating for just parts of our town, but for those that hit, it was absolutely destroyed.
01:11:20.800 --> 01:11:26.079
So if you feel like giving, that would be something that would be a valuable thing and would go towards a very good cause.
01:11:26.319 --> 01:11:26.640
Thank you.
01:11:26.720 --> 01:11:29.119
And we'll put the links in the show notes.
01:11:29.359 --> 01:11:29.760
Thank you.
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:35.039
Thank you so much, Matt, for your commitment to the work and uh for sharing with us.
01:11:35.119 --> 01:11:36.079
It was very inspiring.
01:11:36.399 --> 01:11:36.800
I loved it.
01:11:36.880 --> 01:11:39.680
It was so fun to talk with you, Miriam, and thank you for the work you do.
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:46.399
Elevating facilitators is something that has been long overdue, and it's work that makes every bit of work better.
01:11:46.960 --> 01:11:47.680
So thank you.
01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:48.640
Thank you.
01:11:49.760 --> 01:11:53.520
Thank you for staying tuned and for listening until the very end.
01:11:53.680 --> 01:11:58.479
I hope that you found the inspiration and the wisdom that you are looking for.
01:11:58.640 --> 01:12:08.960
And I hope that you will subscribe to the show so that you never miss any of the interviews with another inspiring facilitator from across the world.
01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:19.760
I'm devoted to continue this podcast and to deliver weekly an episode that uh maintains the quality that you expect and you deserve.
01:12:20.159 --> 01:12:35.600
And if you would like to help me to maintain this quality and to keep the podcast free, please help us visit workshops.org slash support to make a small donation to keep the podcast free.
01:12:36.159 --> 01:12:37.039
Thank you so much.
01:12:37.600 --> 01:12:40.720
I hope to be in your ears next week.