TRANSCRIPTIE 🔗
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:12.640
Feed Up the Middle. Welcome to Up the Middle, a
2
00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:15.439
show that isn't about being middle of the road. It's
3
00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:19.079
about bringing the opposition into the room so our audience
4
00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:22.679
can hear exactly how the other side thinks. It's about
5
00:00:22.839 --> 00:00:26.239
arming our listeners with the best arguments by testing them
6
00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:30.399
against the other side in real time. Partisan extremist shows
7
00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:35.679
reached the converted. Up the middle reaches the undecided. They're persuadable.
8
00:00:35.960 --> 00:00:38.039
If you want to join the forty five plus percent
9
00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:42.079
that is the swing voters and independence, join the show
10
00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:46.759
that those people actually listen to. I'm yours the voice
11
00:00:46.759 --> 00:00:51.600
that sounds like yours, because like you, it's filled with
12
00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:56.880
common sense. Let's go up the Middle. What you're about
13
00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:59.679
to listen to is part of a two hour live
14
00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:04.599
rate recorded Sunday evenings at ten pm Eastern. You can
15
00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:08.000
listen to that show by going to www. Dot Mastiff,
16
00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:14.640
dot Media, slash u TM all right up next. Three
17
00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:18.719
Florida Republicans recently charged with various accounts of election interference
18
00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:23.319
and voter tampering. July twenty twenty six, the Florida Department
19
00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:27.640
of Law Enforcement formerly charged three local Republican election officials
20
00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:31.519
in Saint John's County, Florida, following a nearly two year
21
00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:36.280
investigation into a frauduently primary election scheme in August of
22
00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:42.239
twenty twenty four, three politicians are accused of participating in
23
00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:47.239
a coordinated effort to trick local super voters by creating
24
00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:51.200
and mass mailing tens of thousands of fake voter guides
25
00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:56.959
that unauthorized use of the official logo and branding for
26
00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.000
the Republican Party and the styling of the Saint John's
27
00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.879
County Republican Executive Committee, and did so to endorse an
28
00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:14.159
alternative slate of candidates. Three charges for Sarah Arnold, Saint
29
00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:19.560
John's County Commissioner and District two, Christian Whitehurst Saint John's
30
00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:27.479
County Commissioner District I, and Dillic rumrelt Row Dylan Rumrel,
31
00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:35.400
Saint Augustine Beach City Commissioner and former mayor. A prominent
32
00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:40.120
political campaign consultant, Brianna Jordan, was also charged alongside of them,
33
00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:47.639
as well as a few campaign associates criminal charges. Because
34
00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:51.439
the case presented local conflicts of interests, he was reassigned
35
00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:54.840
by an executive order from Governor Rondasanis to the eighth
36
00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:59.479
Judicial district. Each of the three elected officials faces the
37
00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:05.560
sameriminal misdemeanor charges. They are creating an unauthorized voter guide,
38
00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:10.840
first degree misdemeanor under Florida Statute one oh six point
39
00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:14.840
one four three six. It is illegal to represent a
40
00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:19.080
publication as an official party endorsed voter guide without explicit
41
00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:23.680
written permission from the party leadership and without including the
42
00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:28.800
legally required disclaimers stating who actually paid for the endorsement
43
00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:34.879
or advertisement. Number two criminal conspiracy, second degree misdemeanor under
44
00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:39.599
Florida statute. They are charged with conspiring together to orchestrate
45
00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:44.120
the scheme. Just talking about it is actually against the law.
46
00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:50.199
According to criminal affidavits, the officials directly participated in a
47
00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:55.120
secret envelope stuffing operation at a Saint Augustine residence to
48
00:03:55.199 --> 00:04:00.479
prepare between ten thousand and thirty thousand of the fakeners
49
00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:07.840
to be distributed ahead of the twenty twenty four Republican primary. Wow,
50
00:04:09.319 --> 00:04:12.120
I gotta do something here on TikTok to keep me going.
51
00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:22.040
So there's that additional felony. Note. While the three elected
52
00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:23.879
officials face up to a year and a half behind
53
00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:29.560
bars if convicted, their political consultant Brianna Jordan, faces the
54
00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:33.279
most severe legal jeopardy. In addition to the voter guide
55
00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:36.480
and conspiracy charges, she was hit with third degree felony
56
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:41.560
charges for tampering with physical evidence. Prosecutors alleged that once
57
00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:44.920
she realized an official investigation was closing in, she took
58
00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:49.680
the remaining undistributed fake voter guides into her backyard and
59
00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:59.240
burned them to destroy the evidence. Mm hmmm. While the
60
00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:02.120
Florida Department of Law Enforcement in the Eighth Judicial Circuit,
61
00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:06.959
state Attorney's Office ultimately pursued misdemeanor charges against commissioners Sarah Arnold,
62
00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:11.240
Load full transcript
Christian Whitehurst, and Dylan Rumrell, legal analysts and election integrity
63
00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.920
advocates noted that the underlying actions of the scheme could
64
00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:22.000
have theoretically intersected with several felony level statutes. Prosecutors generally
65
00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:25.519
have broad discretion and choose charges based on what they
66
00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:29.160
can prove beyond a reasonable doubt with the available evidence,
67
00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:33.759
not all the time, sometimes they make charges anyway. However,
68
00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:37.160
looking at the nature of the secret envelope stuffing operation
69
00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:42.160
and mass deception plot, the three could have potentially faced
70
00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:46.800
the following felony charges. But didn't tampering with physical evidence
71
00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:50.800
third degree felony. This is exact charge that their political consultant,
72
00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:56.199
Brianna excuse me, Brianna Jordan, was hit with. Under Florida statute,
73
00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:59.240
it's a third degree felony to alter, destroy, or conceal
74
00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:02.519
any document or thing with the intent to impair its
75
00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:08.839
verity or availability in an investigation. Why they weren't charged.
76
00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:13.879
State affidavits explicitly note that it was Jordan who panicked
77
00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:17.319
and ordered an intern to buy a backyard grill to
78
00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:21.480
burn the remaining undistributed fake voter guides. Once local media
79
00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:25.879
broke the story, because there was no evidence that Arnold
80
00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:30.120
Whitehurst or Rumrel directly participated in or directed the physical
81
00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:36.360
destruction of the evidence, they avoided this felony count grand
82
00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:41.279
theft were organized scheme to defraud under Florida law and
83
00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:44.879
organized scheme to defraud in Bob's a systematic, ongoing course
84
00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:48.319
of conduct with intent to defraud one or more persons
85
00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:53.160
by false or fraudulent pretenses. Furthermore, the operation were poorly
86
00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:55.759
cost tens of thousands of dollars to print, stamp, and
87
00:06:55.879 --> 00:07:01.839
mail up to thirty thousand counterfeit items. Why they weren't charged.
88
00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.279
White collar fraud and grand theft charges typically require proving
89
00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:10.839
a distinct, measurable financial loss to a specific victim or
90
00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:16.199
the illicit personal acquisition of tangible property funds. While the
91
00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:20.000
scheme was a massive political fraud designed to trick voters,
92
00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:24.240
it did not strictly fit the statutory
definition of a
93
00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:29.519
financial fraud scheme aimed at dealing money or property from
94
00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:34.279
the victims. Number three would be identity theft and the
95
00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:40.279
criminal use of personal identification information, a third degree felony conspiracy.
96
00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:45.120
Conspirators explicitly used the official name, registered trademark, logo, and
97
00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:50.240
likeness of Saint John's County Republican Executive Committee without authorization.
98
00:07:50.839 --> 00:07:55.079
Under Florida statute, Fraudulently using the identity and the information
99
00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:59.519
of another person, which illegally includes a business or incorporated
100
00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:03.879
politicals the committee can be a felony. Why they were
101
00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:09.040
in charge, prosecutors chose to utilize a highly specific, tailored
102
00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:15.079
election integrity law instead. Florida statute explicitly criminalizes the unauthorized
103
00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:20.000
publication of political party voter guides. Exactly what they printed
104
00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:25.879
is a no note. Because the legislature created a specific
105
00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:33.200
statute explicitly governing fake voter guides. Prosecutors almost always default
106
00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:37.080
to the specific statute rather than attempting to apply broader,
107
00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:42.399
more generalized identity theft laws felony election fraud is number
108
00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:47.879
four corrupt practices. Florida has strict felony laws regarding to
109
00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:52.360
voter intimidation, ballot stuffing, and official misconduct by public officials.
110
00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:58.240
Why they weren't charged under Florida's election code. Voter tampering
111
00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:02.960
or election fraud felony generally require interference with the mechanics
112
00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:08.559
of voting, such as tampering with voting machines, illegally marking
113
00:09:08.600 --> 00:09:12.919
a ballot, forging signatures in mail in ballots. We actually
114
00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:15.559
got one of them, by the way, it's another story,
115
00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:21.679
not this one. Or destroying actual votes. Distributing this leading
116
00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:27.080
campaign literature, even when highly deceptive and malicious, is legally
117
00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:32.399
classified as a campaign finance slash disclosure violation rather than
118
00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:39.799
direct ballot tampering. So I asked AI if that was
119
00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:44.320
a formality or loophole, whereas that they just haven't furthered
120
00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:49.320
their criminal scheme into that third degree felony, It is
121
00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:54.039
less about a loophole or an uncompleted scheme, and more
122
00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:57.600
about the way American statutory law and prosecutor of strategy work.
123
00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:02.120
The case boiled down to specific legal definitions and strategic
124
00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:07.039
calculus by the Eighth Judicial Circuit State Attorney. It's not
125
00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:11.600
a loophole, it's statutory tailoring. In criminal law, there is
126
00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:15.399
a core doctrine in the legislature writes a specific law
127
00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:19.919
to punish a very specific behavior. Prosecutors are generally expected
128
00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:24.039
to use that law rather than stretching a broad, generic
129
00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:28.559
law to fit Larida has a statute explicitly written for
130
00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:34.039
exactly this scenario. Because of specific law exists for distributing
131
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:39.480
fake party endorsements. I mean, did this happen before? Is
132
00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:47.679
that why we have this law? Uugh? Because specific law
133
00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:51.039
exists for distributing fake party endorsements using a broad felony
134
00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:54.559
like identity theft or grand fraud would be seen by
135
00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:59.240
a judge as an overreach. If prosecutors tried to charge
136
00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:03.080
them with felony identity theft for using the local GP logo,
137
00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.120
defense attorneys would argue that the legislature intended fake political
138
00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:10.759
mailers to be handed under the election code, not white
139
00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:15.039
collar property theft laws. The felony charges could easily be
140
00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:20.840
thrown out. In that case, the evidence blocked the felony path.
141
00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:25.879
They didn't escape felony charges because the scheme wasn't furthered enough.
142
00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.759
The scheme was fully completed. They successfully printed, stuffed, and
143
00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:34.480
mailed thousands of fake guides and it directly impacted the
144
00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:39.240
August twenty twenty four election. One candidate and Marie Evidence
145
00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:43.360
lost her primary to Commissioner Whitehurst by just eight hundred
146
00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:49.200
votes and blames the fake mailer. Instead, they avoided felonies
147
00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:53.039
because the chain of execution the burning of evidence destroying
148
00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:56.759
evidence as a third degree felony. However, the FDLI investigation
149
00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:01.399
and sworn affidavits from interns in campaign stayoffs staff revealed
150
00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:05.200
that their political consultant, Brionna Jordan, was the one who panicked,
151
00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:09.440
bought a backyard grill, and physically burned the leftover guides
152
00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:13.039
from local
media broke When local media broke the story,
153
00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:15.840
because the state couldn't prove the three politicians ordered or
154
00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:19.440
participated in the backyard burning, only Jordan got hit with
155
00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:24.600
a felony. The post office handoff, Jordan and her intern
156
00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:27.080
were the ones who physically took the bins to post
157
00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:34.039
offices in other counties to hide their origins a strategic
158
00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:37.960
decision by the prosecutor. Misdemeanors are much easier and faster
159
00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:42.120
proved to prove beyond a reasonable doubt than complex felonies.
160
00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:45.159
Charging them with a felony would require proving things like
161
00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:49.559
intent to commit financial fraud or conspiracy to destroy physical evidence,
162
00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:52.879
which opens the door for a skilled defense team to
163
00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:57.679
create doubt. With the misdemeanor charges, the state's cases open
164
00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:01.879
and shut. Witnesses placed Sarah Arnold, Christian Whitehurst, and Dylan
165
00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:06.200
Rumrell inside their rented campaign house directly sticking stamps and
166
00:13:06.279 --> 00:13:10.519
labels on unauthorized mailors. The state has them dead to
167
00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:16.399
rights on the literal text of the statue. Even though
168
00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:20.440
the charges are only misdemeanors, the consequences for these politicians
169
00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:23.960
isn't just a slap on the wrist. Sarah Arnold chose
170
00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:27.120
not to run for a re election as the investigation loomed.
171
00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.120
Christian Whitehurst and Dylan Rumrell are facing massive public pressure
172
00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:36.200
to resign immediately. Florida law gives Governor Ron DeSantis the
173
00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:40.360
executive thardy from missuspend elected of local officials from office
174
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.639
when they are facing criminal charges, meaning a misdemeanor conviction
175
00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:50.159
can still completely end their political careers. There we go
176
00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:59.559
so again, and this is where I mean, I get it.
177
00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:06.159
They're guilty, They're guilty, but there's always that what if.
178
00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:09.120
And keep in mind, I spent twenty three years in
179
00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:19.399
law enforcement. My job was to find people guilty right wrong.
180
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:28.159
My job was to investigate to find the truth. And
181
00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.679
I've always said in this conversation that there are plenty
182
00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:36.960
of people who went unpunished in my investigations because I
183
00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:39.879
was not there. When I say I was not there,
184
00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:45.919
I was not capable, based on the investigation, to find
185
00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:51.639
them guilty of what we were investigating. Oh, I could
186
00:14:51.639 --> 00:15:00.519
have found more circumstantial help. This lady in Kansas from
187
00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:02.879
the forty eight Hours episode that I watched last night
188
00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:06.399
with my neighbors was convicted of murder in another state
189
00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:11.559
that they couldn't prove she was in. How do you
190
00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:18.120
murder somebody in another state when the prosecution can't prove
191
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:27.600
you were there? And the girl's the woman, the murderer's daughter,
192
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:34.399
the alleged the accused daughter, the daughter of the accused.
193
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:36.799
There we go. That sounds better you can hear what
194
00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:39.919
I'm saying there. The daughter of the accused said, all
195
00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:45.240
mom had to do was show us how she wasn't
196
00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:52.080
in Kansas. No, actually that's not all she had to do.
197
00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:58.399
All she had to do was sit there. It's the
198
00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:05.279
prosecution's job to show and prove beyond a reasonable doubt
199
00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:09.399
that in fact, she was no longer in Colorado and
200
00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:15.960
was in Kansas and committed those murders. Same thing with
201
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:21.080
my obligation as a criminal investigator, and there were plenty
202
00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:23.320
of cases we could not take far enough to make
203
00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:29.000
that proof. So we didn't make the allegations. We didn't
204
00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:34.080
roll the dice, we didn't try to pin other things
205
00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:40.759
on them, like this case with these Florida public officials.
206
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:46.200
I get it. I don't need to see felonies on
207
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:51.480
them if there's no felonies that they committed. But I
208
00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.200
think the bigger lesson here is this is the party
209
00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:59.120
who's talking about election interference, that they're going to be
210
00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:04.359
the ones give election integrity. And believe me when I
211
00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.359
tell you, these are not the only three that I've
212
00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:21.200
got who have committed such acts. There's another one. I
213
00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.720
don't have them collated. They're all in like inboxes from
214
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:29.279
Facebook or I texted myself. When I see this stuff,
215
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.920
usually I open up a copy of the show notes
216
00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.440
in my phone on Google Docs, and you know, I
217
00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.880
can access this stuff wherever. But I've been sending it
218
00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:43.920
to myself just out of in the interest of time.
219
00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:46.599
Now it's not really collated as well as what I
220
00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:53.160
would like. Anyway, I'm not seeing any of the Democrats,
221
00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:58.000
the ones the Trump administration is actually accusing of election
222
00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:07.240
interference actually doing the election interference. Again we get back
223
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:13.559
to projection. Mm hmmm. Hey a, it's Zeros. My podcast
224
00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:17.680
episodes are created from my two hour weekly radio show,
225
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:21.160
so sometimes as is now ends abruptly at the end
226
00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:23.400
of the segment, there's a bit of a transition into
227
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.279
the next one, so you'll hear the rest of the
228
00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:28.440
show in the next episode. Please join us Sunday evenings
229
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:32.079
ten pm Eastern or up the Middle live by going
230
00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:40.200
to www dot mastuff dot media slash u t M.
231
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:44.160
Thanks for listening. Hey A, it's Zeros. My podcast episodes
232
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.759
are created from my two hour weekly radio show, so
233
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:51.160
sometimes as is now ends abruptly at the end of
234
00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:53.440
the segment, there's a bit of a transition into the
235
00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:55.480
next one, so you'll hear the rest of the show
236
00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:58.799
in the next episode. Please join us Sunday evenings, ten
237
00:18:58.839 --> 00:19:02.440
pm Eastern up the Middle live by going to w
238
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:10.200
w W dot Mastuff dot Media, slash U t M.
239
00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:15.319
Thanks for listening. That's all, folks.