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Welcome to up close with Palm Offside.
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Celebrating art, entertainment, and the human spirit.
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Chris Wally, thank you so much for joining us today.
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Thank you very much for having me.
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Yes, so um, it's the premiere of Rajeeb Joseph's Archduke at the Royal Court.
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Um, so this really feels like a beautifully irreverent comic exploration of the young man who assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand.
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Um, what was your initial reaction to reading Rajib's script when you first read it?
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My very first reaction was this is very funny.
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Uh it was a rhythm that I immediately fell into the rhythm while reading it and found it like so enjoyable to read.
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Uh it just kind of like moved along at such a pace that it was just very difficult to stop reading it.
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You know, sometimes you can put something down and go get a coffee or whatever.
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I just wanted to keep because it kind of felt like once the train had left it wasn't wasn't stopping.
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So yeah, that was my initial reaction.
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And then being struck just by I mean, I don't want to give anything away, but uh its viewpoint and the story uh it chooses to tell, and you know, the depiction of these boys and the decision they're faced with and how they actually ultimately reach this point where they're going to to to do something that that changes the course of of history and what that means to them, and do they realise what they're about to do?
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Um I find that very interesting that do people at the time realize the impact of their decisions, you know, or do people just do things?
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Yeah, I mean it I feel like I didn't really know that much about the archduke or the people who killed him either.
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Um, how much of this the history were you aware of before going into this play, too?
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I knew there was a guy called Cavrillo who shot Franz Ferdinand and started the war.
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That was probably the extent of it.
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I didn't know he had TB.
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I didn't know he was part of the Black Hand um uh organization.
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I didn't know, yeah, I didn't know much at all um about it.
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So yeah, it was was uh eye-opening in that way to particularly know that all these boys had TB and to know that there was a group of them that were sent there because you just hear about Gavrillo, but there were two more boys.
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Absolutely.
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I mean it's uh it's a very powerful story and one that feels very timely as well, given that you know, um ongoing cycles of violence uh continuing to happen today.
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Um, what was it about this piece that sort of like resonated with you as well when you read it?
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I think initially, you know, when I read something, initially it's just like what's my what's my engagement with this?
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Like, regardless of it's if it's making me laugh, if it's making me like upset, if it's making me question things, like how engaged am I, how much do I want to turn the next page to see what what what's happening?
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Um and this for a number of reasons, but particularly the the dialogue really amused me, really made me laugh.
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Um, so that was the first thing that kind of resonated with me.
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And then I find it very interesting, I think, the stories of like of the perpetrators of violence or the perpetrators of you know, people who have been radicalized.
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I think it's interesting to do character studies on them as opposed to just the telling of the events and stuff.
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Like sometimes it's interesting to see what caught what was it that caused someone to become this person, because I think if we can learn and empathize with that and learn from that experience, then I think that's ultimately what creates change.
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Um, you know, trying to understand the person can lead to trying to stop those things from happening again.
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Um yeah, but but firstly it was it was the the dialogue and the the humor, yeah, for sure.
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Were you able to connect with your character quite quickly as well um as you began going to rehearsals too?
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Yes, I found a lot of myself in the dialko.
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I reading the script the first time felt I kind of understood him and his humor and his kind of need to be seen while also putting on this ego of I don't care if you look at me, but don't stop looking at me.
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Yeah, he's a bit of a bluffer.
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Yeah, I mean you're working with this A-less team as well, you know, Lindsay Turner and also S.
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Devlin as well, uh, on this production.
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Um, what has it been like, you know, being in rehearsals and you know, how do you sort of envision this script you know playing out on the Royal Court stage?
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Yeah, I mean it's amazing to work with such an incredible team and such an incredible cast.
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Um I always try my best to just step into rehearsals with an open mind because in my experience, they're just the process has just never been the same.
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So I try, I kind of have my way of working before I start rehearsals and my own process.
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But when I step into the room, I kind of just throw that all out the window and and just try and be as adaptable and malleable um and kind of say yes to everything until maybe something if something is still jarring with me after a while, then I'll kind of go, okay, well, this is how I thought about it, but I always want to try things first.
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Um I think it's easy to sometimes kind of oh no, this is the way I thought of it, but you know, put being put out of your comfort zone can often reveal more interesting things.
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I think it's best idea always wins.
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Um so yeah, it's it's very exciting being in a room full of people where they a lot of people have really good ideas, yeah.
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And also, like, you know, when you're dealing with a story which has you know a very dark undertone, but also a lot of humour, as you say.
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Do you find yourself leaning more into the comedy or more into the drama of um the play?
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I never see stuff as like black and white like that, in terms of like the comedy and drama.
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I think I think like when things get categorized as that, as like, oh, is it comedy, is it drama?
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It's like my experience of life as Chris, which I guess is kind of my only reference point.
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Uh some of the the the most serious or dramatic moments in my life have bred some very, very humorous moments, you know.
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When people are very down, their crutches comedy and humor, and um that's been my experience of stuff.
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So I don't I don't really I struggle to find the truth in in drama if there's no um levity in it.
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So for the boys in this, like it's very funny, but the situation is so serious, you know, it's it's life and death for them, but that's so I I find situations funnier.
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If I'm if I'm to find something very funny, the situation to me has to be believable, and the characters have to really have like high stakes, and that is often where the most humor comes from.
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Because when something means something to someone and there's something else in opposition and they're arguing, then I find a lot of humor comes from that.
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So they kind of run parallel in this.
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Um, so yeah, it's it yeah, to answer the question more succinctly, they're both they're both kind of working in tandem.
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Yeah, for sure.
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And you know, when you're experimenting with different ways of approaching the text and rehearsals as well, you know, at what point do you sort of go, that's the way that you know lands the best, that's the way that works the best.
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Yeah, it's a good question.
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Um it's a good question.
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I think when something works, this is particularly if something is like a comedic moment, you it's undeniable.
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The feeling the you get, you know, it's kind of like I mean, it's what I love so much about acting, is it's that thing that you can't really explain, it's the energy of the room.
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You feel like the room is getting charged and more uncharged and more charged, and it's almost like when things are going well, you feel the room get brighter.
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Um, and that's the magic of theater because you can't really explain what that feeling is, but you just know and you're like, ah, that's what works.
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But then having said that, that might only work on that night with that audience, with that choice that the actor made before you.
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So I think it's just being open to everything, and and something works, I think, when you're when you're sound like the classic wanker actor thing to say, but when you're really listening, you're opening yourself up to receiving those moments.
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But having said that again, there are certain physical things that you can do that get a laugh every time, so it's kind of like uh a lab, I guess.
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I find yeah, it's definitely exciting.
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I mean, earlier on in the year you were doing Orphans, which I guess was sort of similar in that was a very dark story, but also very funny at the same time.
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Um, did you um how yeah, how did again how did you sort of begin to you know approach this text and this character as well, and you know, begin that brotherly bond with uh Fred Woodley Evans as well?
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Yeah, Fred's great, it was great casting that again.
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Um I think I usually approach everything by just reading it, and then I have my initial thoughts, and then I read it again and just read it again, and then I try to read it and just read it, but I, you know, people are like you have to just read it and like not make decisions.
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I find that as soon as I start reading something, I start like doing the voice, and I start I can't help it, I just get too too excited, so I start doing stuff.
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Um but that'll that'll often be what I start doing then at the very beginning of getting into a character is just reading it, saying it out loud, moving my body.
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I I struggle to sit still at the best of times, so I kind of have to read something and I'm moving.
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Like if someone's
watching me read something in a cafe, they're like, that guy is mental.
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It's just I'm just talking to myself, I can't help but like act it out and kind of look around, and so I kind of find my way in there.
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I guess it's like as if it was like a pile of clothes, and I'm kind of wriggling my way into something.
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I just keep trying loads of different things until something feels right, and then once I'm kind of figure that stuff out, it's really really about finding out what I think my character's objectives are.
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Because I think if you don't have an objective, I don't get why you know.
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I think anyone has in every moment in in someone's life they're trying to do something, and they're trying to achieve something.
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Like maybe on this call, I'm trying to impress you with my answers, and I'm trying to be so I don't know, whatever it is, if you can find out, or if I can find out maybe what their objectives are, that's the start of getting into it, I guess.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I guess um with treat as well, you know, he has this um very physical transformation in the play as well.
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Um, was it quite challenging, you know, going you know, from um being this quite volatile character to then being you know someone who presented themselves in a very polished way?
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Yeah, it's a good question that I don't really know sometimes how I like physically go about doing stuff.
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It's kind of like when I like I said, when I'm reading and I'm moving, and it kind of just starts to happen and just kind of start to feel it out.
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Um and then when Forbes' character comes in in the second half, when he's more polished up, it's still like Treat is who he is, and then Forbes comes up, he just tries to polish whatever that is.
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But like if he was a dirty glass, he's still a dirty glass, you know.
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But maybe there's been a little bit of shining going on in it, but you know, he's not he's not really changed that much, he's just kind of got a bit more more swagger about him.
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Um, but yeah, I I I don't think he like fully changes who he is at his core, really.
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He just yeah loves himself a bit more.
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Yeah, I mean when that transformation happens, you know, I initially thought you know a fourth character had just showed up in the play.
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Um was that part of the intention as well?
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Do you think that was part of Treat's intention as well?
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I didn't.
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So you saw that play, did you?
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I did, I loved it.
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Yeah, and Fred as a yeah, I interviewed Fred at the time as well.
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Oh, nice, nice.
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Um yeah, I think it's like you know, this treat has has has lived a life of of poverty, poverty and having to provide and the pressure every day.
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If he doesn't go out and rob and brings bring bring money home and put food on the table, the boys are are are gonna die.
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Um and then when Forbes when Harold comes in and he alleviates that pressure, not only does he do that, he also gives him loads of money, he gets he gets carried away.
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Uh, so like he does become a different person.
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I guess it's like you know, you you could know someone who's like a certain way and then they reach a high level of success and they change, you know.
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Who they are at their core is probably still the same, but but but their their their idea of themselves and stuff can change now.
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Over time, if you if you fall into that and you believe that, then he really does.
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I think you really can become a different person.
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You can you can believe who you've turned into.
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But I think when we meet Treat during that, he's still in the very early stage, so he just kind of fancies himself.
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Just I think he just he's he's like it's like do you ever go see see a film and you come out of the film and for a while you're like walking around and you feel like the character sometimes, I know what you mean.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, that's what he feels like.
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He's just seeing just seeing good fellas, and he thinks he's a gangster.
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Like sometimes I come out of a film and I'll actually end up wearing clothes that I thought the character or I saw the character was wearing, or and I'll have this idea in my head, and I'll look at myself in the mirror and be like, oh geez, I don't look anything like that person.
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But I've for a while in my world I convinced myself I've like turned into them.
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It's yeah, it's interesting.
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Um, I mean, how was it as well, you know, doing that play in German Street as well, you know, when you've got the audience so close up to you, too?
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Um, was that fun to see the audience so close up, or do you prefer not to see faces?
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No, that was honestly one of like the most incredible experiences I've had on stage.
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It was like it was amazing being in a room that that that's that small with like 60 seats, you know.
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I feel like what you can achieve and the you know the intensity, and it was a theater experience, unlike anything I've had as an actor.
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It really allowed you to really I don't know, it was just more conducive to feeling things and to being more immersed and lost in moment to moment.
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I I have never been in a theater of that size, let alone perform in one of that size, and it also it also had a feeling of like something was special was happening.
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I like I think it does in that theater because you kind of feel I don't know, as an audience member, you also feel like oh I'm in this like secret thing that's happening.
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It feels like you're in someone's room and you shouldn't be in there.
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It feels like almost voyeuristic, and it was fucking cool to perform in a room like that.
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Yeah, it was it was amazing.
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I loved it so much.
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Yeah, it's a really special theatre.
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I agree.
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It's like a west end like a basement theatre, and it's amazing that it's on the west end, it's there, you know.
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That's the thing, it's not like you're not traveling outside London somewhere.
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Yeah, yeah, it's an amazing place.
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Um, did you feel like you were able to get closure after such a short run as well?
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You know, I think you're only on for like three weeks.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I mean, you miss it.
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That that that's been my favorite play since I was like 16, since I was maybe 15.
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My drama teacher Trina Scott showed me that play when I was younger, and I fell in love with it, and I've been wanting to do it since then.
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So when this came along, it really felt like a gift.
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Um, yeah, I'm not done with treat.
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I I want to do it again.
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Uh it was okay to close the chapter then because we knew what it was, we knew it was three weeks, but I think I wanna I wanna play him again for longer.
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So I think knowing that I want to do that and that that I'm sure will happen at some point, I could accept it after the three weeks.
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But yeah, it was difficult to get.
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Yeah, was it always treats that you wanted to play, or was that a part of you that was drawn to Philip?
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No, it was always Philip.
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Oh really?
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I always wanted to play Philip.
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And when I was younger, I put a production on with my friend Cave Creed and we put it on ourselves for charity.
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We did the whole play, and I played Philip and he played treat.
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And then when I was trying to get it done myself, I was always trying to play Philip, and then when I was offered treat, I was like, okay, well, let me think about this, and let me like, and then once I had that in my head, I was like, Oh no, no, I only want to play treat because you know I wanted to experience that side of it, and I was way younger when I played Philip, I was also like 19, so kind of turning 30, it felt like yeah, that was actually the correct casting and the natural progression was to to swap over.
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So maybe have old is in the future for you as well.
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Oh, yeah, exactly.
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Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's that's on the cards in 30 years, yeah, yeah.
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I'd love that.
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Then it would be complete.
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Yeah.
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Um, I feel like everyone who um loves theatre loved um Portia Coughlin as well.
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Um, I feel like that was such a landmark piece for the Almeida at the time, too.
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Did you feel like you were doing something that was really special when you were doing it as well?
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Yeah, I think when when I when we were doing the first read through and I saw everyone that was cast and heard everyone, I was like, wow, this is an amazing company of of actors, and uh I just thought Carrie was amazing, um Carrie Cracknell.
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Um and her vision I just yeah, it did it I'd be lying to say if I didn't like feel in the room that like this was an amazing show, and I felt so blessed to be a part of it and and to watch these performances and it felt like it had such a weight.
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And Archie's Archie who who um played Gabriel, I think it was Gabriel's character's name, it was Porsche's um twin who's who's passed away.
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Uh his voice was just amazing and haunting in the music.
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Umuna who's doing uh a show actually in the Royal Court soon as well.
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It was just amazing.
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I I just remember being so transported by by Carrie's vision, the music, the performances, and I was like, oh, this is cool.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And Marina Carr's um work is it feels very Irish.
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Um yeah, it worked so well in London.
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Um, why do you think like this piece like resonated with people so deeply and when they were watching it?
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Yes, I think I think it's grief,
you know.
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So much of the story is about grief, and everyone can relate to grief in some capacity.
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Um I think good writing is always gonna be universal in some in some way, you know.
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It's if you can capture um what it means to be human, uh, you know, so much of that is going to be universal for everyone, and then you're just I also think that people relate to specificity, even if the people don't know a place or they've never heard of that place or met anyone from that place, you can tell when something's specific, and I think people are moved by specificity because then everything becomes so much more believable uh and relatable, and then their grief becomes your grief.
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And I think Marina being such a clever and observational and like just an amazingly specific writer, she achieves that, and then with yeah, every other ingredient in in that show, yeah.
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I think I think that's why it resonates so uh resonated so much.
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.799
Yeah, for sure, and also like working with Alison Oliver as well.
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:38.079
How did you sort of begin to develop that sort of fractured marital relationship between these two characters?
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:40.960
Uh we just had a lot of fun to be honest.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:46.079
It was just just running the scene, talking about the scene, talking about who these characters were.
00:21:46.160 --> 00:22:04.400
There was an awful lot of time went into backstory, and we did a lot of improv, which I thought, like any thing that was referenced in the play, you know, where Portia and Um Raphael met when they met.
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:34.079
We sort of improvised that scene and what that would have been like in earlier points in their relationship, which gave us such you know, it's amazing when you're on stage and you're speaking about a memory as Raphael, and then you can relate to that memory in your head because we we explored that scene, you know, you're kind of just building this character, and then you're you're even building their memories, which I think has such an effect on your performance.
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:54.000
Um and Alison just being so incredible is such an open actor that you know, if there was work that we wanted her to do before the show started, or lock in, or kind of like get into character for 10 minutes before, or whatever it was, you know, we kind of supported each other in in that way.
00:22:54.079 --> 00:23:02.799
So um and I'd known Alison before as well, and Alison is a very committed actor, so you kind of know that you can really push it.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:13.200
We're both we're both up for pushing it as far as we can and and trying to squeeze the sponge dry, if that's a good way of putting it.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:19.200
Yeah, so did your um energies like sync up like very naturally, then like going into hassles?
00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:20.160
I think so.
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:36.880
Yeah, we're both from Cork, we're both a little bit mad maybe, um, but both kind of very serious about the work, and I felt like that energy in the whole all across the board in that cast, you know, everyone we had so much fun, but we also took it incredibly seriously.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:46.559
Um and then we definitely kind of because the nature of the play is so dark, we kind of all went a little bit mad every Saturday night, which which was fun as well.
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:48.319
I can imagine.
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.759
Um, it's amazing as well, you're just like looking over your career as well.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:55.359
You know, you keep coming back to do theatre um as well.
00:23:55.440 --> 00:24:04.240
I was like wondering what is it about the theatre that keeps you attracted to doing stage work as well as to uh instead of just sticking to screen work.
00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:20.880
I I kind of left drama school and I did Lieutenant Finish Moore this play, and then actually I didn't do theatre for like five years, maybe even six years, and and I I suddenly realized I don't know if I'm getting any better here.
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:38.720
Um sometimes feel with the opportunities that I've had on screen, I feel like I feel like sometimes I've not gotten a chance to play roles on screen that I can really get my teeth into in a way that I would like.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:56.880
Whereas I feel like on stage those opportunities come by a lot more frequently, in my experience, and I found that after doing Portia Cochran and playing Ray Fuel, it was this character that was just so different to me, like really, really different.
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:06.319
I mean, he's a father of three with half a foot that runs runs like uh this uh god uh abattoir.
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:09.680
You know, I was like, how do I get into this guy?
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:25.440
And that was so rewarding just exploring that and trying to discover who he was, and then really getting to to be an actor, which is ultimately what I love is like playing parts that are trying to trying to understand who these people are.
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:27.359
That's why I started this, it's so fun.
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:38.000
And I was like, oh god, I'm getting these opportunities on stage, and I'm getting to do these this every night and work with these amazing actors.
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:53.920
And and I honestly felt first of all, the the feeling of being on stage is unlike anything, you know, having that direct link to an audience and feeling that instant feedback, and you just feel like you're sharpening your your instrument every night, and it's just super fun.
00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:58.319
So I was like, more of that, please, and then yeah.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:06.000
Um, yeah, you mentioned the lieutenant of Inishmour where you won your Olivier as well,
um, quite early on in your career.
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:10.480
Um, was that a nice feeling, or did it just pass you by at the time?
00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:13.839
Yeah, no, it was uh it was a very nice feeling for sure.
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:18.480
It was uh it was great, I was so appreciative of it.
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:30.880
I think it was weird because it was like my first play, and I won an Olivier, and I think a part of me was probably looking back was a bit like ah, that was that was gas.
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:39.839
Um, and a part of me then was probably uh maybe took it a little bit for granted, you know.
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:45.839
I guess it was, you know, not took it for granted is is is the wrong word, but I just came out of drama screen.
00:26:45.920 --> 00:27:05.039
It was my first play, and that happened, and then maybe that's why I kind of wanted to go off then and had this idea of just doing TV and film, and realized it was just like a very young and naive way of seeing things, but it didn't pass me by, but I also maybe didn't really fully understand what it was.
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:08.640
But then again, you know, what are those things as well?
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:16.640
Ultimately, you know, some of the best performances I've ever seen have not even been nominated, so yeah, super, super grateful for it.
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:25.599
Um, was aware at the time of what it was, but then ultimately also in a way which actually might be a healthy thing, was kind of like, oh yeah, okay, that's fine.
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:27.440
Let's crack on.
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:28.559
Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:33.839
I mean, what would you say is sort of like the biggest misconception about being being an actor in general?
00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:39.759
Oh, biggest misconception is that everyone's loaded if you're on TV.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:45.680
Uh that everyone, yeah, everyone's everyone if you're on TV that you're fucking rich.
00:27:46.000 --> 00:28:11.680
Um I think I think maybe if people don't know the industry and they just know what actors and it's kind of the idea of actors, maybe there's a misconception about like the level of work and how how taxing it is as a as a profession and how much work needs to go into making it look like there's no work.
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:15.599
Um, you know, of course, obviously there's varying degrees of that.
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:21.039
Like uh, but yeah, that might be more misconception.
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:26.559
But then again, if you're having fun and you really love what you're doing, what's that all saying?
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:29.680
Love what you do, and you'll never work a day in your life.
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:31.920
Um, but there is truth to that.
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:35.519
Uh God, I don't know what the other misconception is.
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:36.799
Yeah, I don't know.
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:38.480
I'll have to come back to you on that.
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:39.279
Yeah.
00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:41.839
Um, it's been it's been so interesting talking to you.
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:43.359
Um, just as a last question, I guess.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:47.599
Um, what do you hope audiences take away with them when they come and see Archduke?
00:28:50.079 --> 00:29:07.759
Questions like qu I always think a successful piece of theatre, successful film, to be honest, a successful piece of art is a conversation starter and a pub after.
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:13.279
Like, I I want people to come away from the show and then go for a drink and talk about the show.
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:14.400
But what do you think that was?
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:15.519
And what do you think this was?
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:18.079
And and like, what do you think they went on to do?
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:19.119
And what do you think this?
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:34.400
And yeah, if it if it lives on in people's heads after, and if they're thinking about it days later, have that in your head, and then it kind of incubates, and it kind of once you've had that idea, it cooks away slowly in your head over time and marinates and gets better and better.
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:36.880
And I think the same can be said for a good show.
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:46.559
I don't know if you've ever seen anything, and then you kind of leave and you're like, Whoa, okay, that was good, but then like each day that passes, you're like, That was really good, that was really, really good.
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:53.920
It kind of gets better in your head because it's making you think, and so yeah, I think that's a cool thing to take away from the show.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:58.480
Yeah, when was the last time you had that experience yourself as an audience member?
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:00.720
As an audience member.
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:08.079
Uh I had a big time actually with a film with a film called Tar, you know.
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:11.759
Oh, yes, the Kids Blongers and uh Yeah, yeah.
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:14.960
I remember coming out of that and being like, wow, okay, I don't know how I feel about that.
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:22.319
I think I liked it, and then every day it got better and better and better in my head, and I was like, geez, that's an amazing film.
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.079
But it took me a while to kind of really like sit in it.
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:48.400
Um with theater, then the last time I had that I remember like the last time I saw something, I mean uh see see so much that blows me away and stuff, but I remember seeing the motive in the queue and being very excited after that and wanting to see it again um at those two performances like Mark Addison, Johnny Flynn.
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:54.480
Um yeah, but the sort of the the incubator thing, I'm not sure.
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:55.440
I'll have to think about that.
00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:56.480
For sure.
00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:58.720
Um, Chris Wally, it's been such a pleasure talking to you.
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:00.640
Thank you so much, Carlos.
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:01.119
Cheers.