Volledige transcriptie van Why Smart People STILL Reject Bitcoin | Brett Hansen (Bcuz)

everything, you know, went down. 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:38.480 And I was like, oh my gosh. 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:43.120 And I thought about all the times in my life where I just never jumped in with both feet. 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.959 I just said, Oh man, that was a good, that's that would have that's a good idea. 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:48.879 I think about like lithium mine, like in high school. 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:52.079 I'm like, oh, I should invest in lithium mines, like batteries are the future. 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:56.079 Like, if I would have done that, I'd you know, I'd be doing all right. 00:04:56.240 --> 00:05:06.079 Yeah, but like, you know, so like I just saw this as like one of those other things, like, okay, the future is definitely gonna be more digital. 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:12.079 This solves the double spend, or like um anything that's digital can be copied. 00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:14.399 Like this completely solves that. 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:18.879 And then like this is sound money for a digital age. 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:26.399 And I just kind of like, and then it like the price dropped, and I was like, oh my gosh, like, yeah, let's go. 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:36.720 Yeah, so yeah, that's you know, and then you know, all the other things start coming too, you know, the mining and the nodes, and you know, you just kind of pick your way at it as you become more interested. 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:39.519 Dude, that's amazing, that is incredible. 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:41.600 Um, and just being able to pivot too. 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:48.959 I think um, like you shared, like, you know, switching jobs or even even going back to 2020 where you're like, okay, well, let me take a deep dive into it. 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:53.680 It's so easy to gloss over it when you already said no to something a long time ago, right? 00:05:53.759 --> 00:06:02.639 Or you saw your friend, you're like, eight years, you know, I don't know where your friend's at now, but um, just looking at the way the time passes by and how we everything just comes full circle. 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:02.800 Yeah. 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:05.199 Now you're like, okay, cool, like let me deep dive into this. 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:08.800 And I think Bitcoiners have like this mind of just being curious. 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:14.000 And I think a lot of people need that because they're so like just like locked in, right? 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:19.759 Um, but with your book, um, I know your book asks like, why do we believe what we believe? 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:25.600 Like, this is a deep psychology question, and it can go many ways, and I'm super excited. 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:27.279 Um, why this question? 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:28.399 And where are you going? 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:29.839 Where are you going with this? 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:30.720 Yeah, yeah. 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:37.199 Um, it really started off with the idea of why why do people ignore Bitcoin? 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:38.720 Like, to begin with, right? 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:47.759 Like, like by all measures, like really intelligent people and successful people just ignore this thing and write it off. 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:59.040 And I think, like, to be honest, it's like the the pivot you just talked about is like sometimes people like generate these conclusions and consider it like solved, right? 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:00.879 Like and they never come back to it. 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:12.720 And so, you know, you can call that a belief or or you know, whatever we want to, you know, language has meaning and it goes through our filters in our brain, and like we all have a different interpretation of it. 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:22.879 But like, I think our brains do this this thing where we consider something examined, solved, and we don't necessarily come back to it. 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:31.040 Or it strikes so Bitcoin to me lives underneath all the logic, right? 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:33.920 I don't think you can go at somebody logically. 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:40.800 I think you need to understand the question underneath the question, right? 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:45.680 So and that is like what what does this idea threaten about me? 00:07:45.839 --> 00:08:07.519 And I think a lot of times it's status, it's you know, protecting social belonging, I think it's uh keeping a coherent worldview, and Bitcoin lives underneath and forces people to you know question some very, you know, probably ideas that they thought were concluded, or they thought they had already resolved. 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:21.279 And then it stirs up all this stuff, it's cognitive dissonance, and you know, you can either ignore the idea or you can, you know, I call it, you know, the map becoming the territory in the book. 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:25.839 Um, you know, a map is a way to navigate the world, a territory is something to defend. 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:34.320 And when your status and belonging and everything are tied to an idea in the fiat system, like this is how I made a living. 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:40.240 By all accounts, like this person's doing fine and has had no reason to question the way his life is going. 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:42.639 So why would you even take a look at it? 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:47.759 And you know, it just the the book kind of just churns through kind of all that. 00:08:47.919 --> 00:09:01.120 It starts off like uh, you know, showing the machine, and then what happens when like the machine starts uh collapse, and then the third act is like living outside, kind of like uh conviction without consensus. 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:08.639 When you're the the lone person in the room who sees the thing or has examined it, but then now you gotta live with all the normies. 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:09.440 Yeah. 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:10.080 Yeah. 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:16.639 Oh my gosh, that's such a great um way of explaining just

how the the human brain works. 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:30.799 Because when he was sharing with me a little bit about Bitcoin and early on, when he was diving in, obviously for him, light bulbs were just exploding out of his head, like all of these things were just coming, and he was like, We've been lied to, all of this stuff. 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:32.639 And for me, I'm like, what do you mean? 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:35.039 Like everything's fine, you know, like what are you talking about? 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:45.600 You know, like my dad's done well, my brother's doing great, you know, you're feet, you look around you, like you were mentioning, and it does cause you to kind of like, well, it can't be that bad, you know. 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:47.759 It's it can't like okay. 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:59.519 And then once you start peeling layers after layers, I think that's why it's so important to slowly, well, for in my opinion, to slowly start understanding something because it helps you actually unravel things like a, you know, like an onion. 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:05.279 You're like peeling one layer at a time, understanding what's underneath in that core of what's actually happening. 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:07.600 Um, and so I think that's a really great way. 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:10.159 Obviously, your book probably explains it way better. 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:12.240 And I can't wait to read it myself. 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:17.279 Um, but that's yeah, it's it's very true with the psychology of people. 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:23.519 And I love that you kind of dove dove into that side of people understanding Bitcoin as well. 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:31.279 And what kind of made you start kind of has it always been an interest of yours of how like that human behavior psychology works? 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:34.799 Yeah, I would say it's probably my my first passion. 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:42.960 I don't like even I think back to in high school in like 10th grade, we had an option to take a psychology class. 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.519 And I don't know, something about it just really struck me. 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:50.799 And um, my first go at college um was all psychology, right? 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.480 I just took two years and it was just like incredibly fascinating. 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.639 But there also becomes a point where I'm like, well, how do I actually monetize this? 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:00.320 Yeah, right, right. 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:07.279 So um, and I've heard you guys talk in the past about you know, college and and stuff like that, and just grappling with that. 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:14.399 But so, you know, I had uh kind of a moment and then I just took my student loan money and went to Europe and then kind of you know messed around. 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:15.200 Just whatever. 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:19.840 I was I was young and I traveled the world a little bit and learned some great life lessons. 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:26.240 Um, and then when I decided to go back to school, I like made a decision to be honest. 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:29.519 Like I just picked structural engineering like as a whim. 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:31.200 I was like, oh, this seems kind of interesting. 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:32.879 And I'm just like, I'll just go do it. 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:36.240 Yeah, you know, which sounds kind of weird, right? 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:39.039 But like I was like, ah, that seems interesting enough. 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:41.200 And then I don't know. 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:42.159 No. 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:53.039 Um but like to to your point, I think like in many ways, and just looking at you guys, um belief in a lot of ways is like a marriage. 00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:58.000 Um you know, like once you're married, you stop evaluating, right? 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:01.840 You stop like searching for the the other thing. 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:03.679 And and like that's the point of it. 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.440 Um and it it frees up a lot of a lot of energy, right? 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:10.000 But that conclusion is like something you protect. 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:16.559 You you protect this belief, you protect the sanctity of marriage and you know, the home and and all that. 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:18.960 And and that is the point of it. 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:21.919 And it's not a like a position to hold anymore. 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:24.559 It's um it's something you're loyal to. 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:34.960 I think we I think that's a great analogy for the way a lot of this like beliefs and I would call them inherited realities operate inside of us. 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:42.320 Like so much, like all the culture and family and school and and everything, like we inherited all this stuff. 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:43.759 Just like language, right? 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:53.679 We don't even we never even questioned it because just like the way to be honest, I don't know the next the I don't know the last word of this sentence that I'm speaking right now. 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:55.200 It's just coming to me. 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.000 And I think that's the way these beliefs actually just come to us. 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:03.200 When something attacks us, we feel it in our body, and like the response just comes, right? 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:10.080 The same way that somebody somebody said something negative about either one of you, each of you would probably feel something. 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:10.480 Yeah. 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:13.679 I think a belief hits us the the same way. 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:20.720 Um, so like in the end, unlike a marriage, like loyalty and operacy can pull in different directions. 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:21.360 Okay. 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:33.279 And it it causes um a tension inside of us, and we'll tend to operate or choose more coherent version that fits our world view that's gonna make life

easiest for us. 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:35.120 Dude, this is good. 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.399 Well, you're going through mid-sense and stuff like that when you're sharing that bread. 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:42.000 I'm like, I need to put my thinking cap on because bread's going deep right now. 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:43.120 No, it's good though. 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:44.080 I like it. 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:53.600 Um, and really we have to actually stop, zoom out, and just be like, hey, like, let me seek to understand how everything's working around here in our lives and stuff like that. 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:56.799 And going back to like where you were talking about with people, right? 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:58.399 It's like someone says something to me. 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:04.960 I don't know if it's just me, but I'm at to the point of my life now, Brett, where like if someone says something to me, I'm like, dude, you have a great day, you know? 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:19.840 Like I'm like, nothing is like gonna steer me off my path unless it's like has to deal with like my inner circle, like any outside trying to come in or negativity, it's literally like, dude, I disagree with you. 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:22.000 I'm I push back with that, but you know what? 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:23.279 You have a great day, right? 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:28.639 Like, we're just keeping it moving, and it's it's crazy how we change too, and our mindset changes over time. 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:33.120 Like what you were saying, like at when we're young, we're like, oh man, like, dude, what are they thinking of me? 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:34.080 Or what if I post this? 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:36.480 What do they say, or what how are they gonna react? 00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:37.519 Or like, is this cool? 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:38.559 Is this not cool? 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:40.320 But it's like them it's it's crazy. 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:47.360 Like the way we get older, and I wish I adopted this at an early stage, but we as soon as we get older, I'm like, nothing matters. 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:49.919 Like, I don't care about anything like that. 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.960 Like, it's just me and my family and like our goals. 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:54.799 Um, and so it's just funny. 00:14:55.039 --> 00:15:04.960 But um, I also wanted to go like I like how much of what we believe is actually like something we consciously choose, like versus something we observe from like family, culture, media, or stuff around us. 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:06.639 What what are your thoughts on this? 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:11.679 I think a vast majority is inherited reality. 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:18.000 I think a vast majority is like I said, it just it's it's ingrained in us like language. 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:26.320 Um now that that's not to say that we don't examine and change our beliefs, right? 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:34.879 And I think and I think the way like you're talking

about um, you know, nothing bothers me anymore, um, stuff like that. 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:38.639 I think that's really conviction without consensus, right? 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:45.440 Like you're no longer letting somebody else deter determine the value of the thing they use. 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:50.320 And I think that's the most important place we can get to. 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:52.879 Because there's a certain peace in that. 00:15:53.279 --> 00:16:06.879 And the only way that I think you can honestly get there for yourself is to examine those inherited realities from basically the beginning. 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:07.600 Okay. 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:14.000 Like, like nobody did you ever stop to think like nobody stops to think like what is money? 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:14.639 Yeah. 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:15.200 Ever. 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:15.600 Right? 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:24.000 And we just walk around, we use the thing, it's like, uh, I buy my coffee with it, I fucking take sorry, I take out a lawn, I you know, you're good, you're good. 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:24.639 You could cut some. 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:26.720 It's at a children's show, we understand. 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:37.679 So you want that's not to say that is not I, you know, and I'm not saying that we don't change our beliefs and question our beliefs and come to our own conclusions. 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:46.720 I'm saying just to start with, like our foundation is laid before we can even probably speak. 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:54.639 And it comes to culture, family, school, and we never we never chose the map we start out with to navigate the world. 00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:01.360 And the only thing I'm even asking anyone in this book, like, I don't ever claim to have a monopoly on truth. 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:03.200 I don't know the right way to walk life. 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:06.960 I don't think anyone does, and anyone who claims to is selling you something. 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:13.440 So I I just really the only thing I'm asking is just look at where that came from. 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.359 And I think there's a series of tells that happen. 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.160 And I think one is it arrives in your body first. 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:35.920 I think if you hear something and it hits you, it hits your nervous system physically, that's a belief being challenged, and your mind is coming up with an explanation before thought. 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:37.680 Okay. 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:45.039 So I'm asking pause, not then in the moment, but like later, sit with like, why did I feel that? 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:46.720 Like, why will that hit my body? 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.680 And just actually think of you don't gotta tell the dude he's right. 00:17:49.839 --> 00:18:02.880 Like I'm I'm just saying, like because my whole thought process is with these uh, you know, inherited beliefs or you know, whatever, even things that we've sat with for a long time. 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:06.400 When we start to defend them, we're no longer updating. 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:15.119 We're we're constantly just defending the thing and the world is growing around us and new information is around us at all times. 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:27.359 And if we're not like questioning the thing we thought was already concluded, we're just doing the thing I did in 2012 when I thought Bitcoin was internet drug money. 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:27.839 Right. 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:29.039 Yeah, yeah. 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:31.039 Yeah, exactly. 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:39.119 Well, I I'm thinking about because I have a background in education and um, you know, thinking about like the term learned behavior, right? 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:44.720 Of understanding like because of where your environment is, is how you your behavior, right? 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:51.119 And I it kind of made me think of that initially, and it kind of um, I don't know if it parallels necessarily totally. 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:58.000 Um, but there are some instincts that we have, you know, that we're kind of born with, but also we also we are in an environment. 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:02.799 So whatever someone else where Anthony grew up is not someplace where I grew up, right? 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:07.519 And I he learned so many other things by being in his environment than I did. 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:22.160 But like you, what you were mentioning, that neuroplasticity of being able to learn and relearn something else and build kind of like if you're always defending where you were, you know, were or being a victim of something or whatever that might look, right? 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:30.640 I make it just makes me think you're making my wills turn as you're talking of that we can learn something new and it's okay. 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.880 You know, like your new belief system can it can be a good thing. 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:39.759 It's yeah, you're you're allowed to change your mind, and that's perfectly fine. 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:45.279 Like, I I don't know, like changing my mind all the time about all kinds of things. 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:49.200 Like, I you know, I reserve the right to change my mind at any point in time. 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:49.920 And you know what? 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:53.200 I might look back at this episode and go, like, you know what, I'm I was wrong. 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:53.839 You know what? 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:54.559 That's fine. 00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:56.319 It does it like that's fine. 00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:58.240 There's nothing wrong with that. 00:19:58.480 --> 00:19:59.279 Exactly. 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:00.400 That's really good. 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.079 Um, real quick, also, Brett. 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.480 Like, I know you mentioned like you mentioned like inherited beliefs. 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:06.480 Like, give me an example of like an inherited belief. 00:20:06.799 -->

00:20:07.920 What do you mean by this? 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:16.640 Well, just we'll start off with culture, culture in general, like is an inheritance, like your entire view of the world. 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:20.640 And you can even take somebody like we'll just use Bitcoin as an example. 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:30.880 Somebody in Nigeria or Ukraine or whatever is gonna look at Bitcoin significantly differently than somebody in the United States, right? 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:48.640 They're they're looking at it not necessarily as like a number go up or increase my asset, they're looking at it as, you know, property rights, as in, you know, as an escape from inflation, something that can't be taken from them, a way to um, you know, transfer the wealth across borders. 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:48.960 Yeah. 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:50.400 With 12 words. 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:54.480 You know, there's so many things to Bitcoin beyond like the price. 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:55.279 Mm-hmm. 00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:01.839 Okay, yeah, no, that's a great, yeah, because then it also be like, oh, number go up, or like, hey, decentralized, separate money from state. 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:05.119 So yeah, there's all of these different factors that go into play. 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:09.279 Everyone's viewpoint perspective is different on how they see Bitcoin. 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:10.319 No, that's really good. 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:11.359 Okay, okay. 00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:13.920 And then um, how does all this connect to Bitcoin? 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.319 Like, did like did studying Bitcoin change the way you think about police systems in general? 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:20.720 Or like, yeah, how does that factor in? 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:28.880 Yeah, so I think I think Bitcoin is one of the few places where we're actually in contact with consequence. 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:31.119 Break this down. 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:43.039 So all the systems around us are padded, and we're never in contact with the actual result directly. 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:49.519 So a bank can fail, you don't lose your money, there's you know, insurance and all this stuff, right? 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:52.960 Um other things like you think you're patient. 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:57.119 Well, when have you actually had to be patient where it cost you something? 00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:57.839 Right? 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:03.599 So, so Bitcoin in in my View is a great way to look at beliefs because it's a mirror. 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:04.559 It's not a forge. 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.599 Like it doesn't create responsibility on demand. 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:10.160 It doesn't create patience on demand. 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:13.359 It doesn't create low time preference on demand. 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:23.440 You bring all of it to Bitcoin, and Bitcoin shows you your actual relationship because now there's a cost to it, and you're in direct consequence with that cost. 00:22:24.000

--> 00:22:24.319 Okay. 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:30.160 I love that analogy of that mirror because it does in so many aspects. 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:34.799 I in parenthood, I've had situations where I've been held a mirror to my face. 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:51.359 You know, my kids might say something, and I'm like, dude, they're just showing me exactly how I'm responding to something and making me really change my behavior or change my belief system about how I thought everything was going to flow and how everything was going to go and how I thought about certain things of parenting, right? 00:22:51.440 --> 00:23:06.720 And so um that made me think of that because I always talk about how each of uh our kids has held that mirror and changed my belief system on how I thought I was gonna parent each one and how everything was gonna be my little type A side of my brain was gonna work, you know? 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:07.440 Right, right. 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:11.759 Like, think about like, you know, we have this idea like, hey, we're we're very disciplined. 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:14.000 Like, I mean, I know you go to the gym a lot. 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:21.039 Yeah, but you know, so like I'm I'm disciplined, and this is the time and the domain where I exercise this discipline. 00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:30.799 But like your children can come up to you, and you know, I'm not talking about disciplining your children, but like just your own discipline in like, hey, we're not gonna give in. 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:35.519 Um, or you know, like we need to maintain like boundaries and stuff like that. 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:39.839 But then like their little cute smiling faces are there, and you know what, you can have the ice cream. 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:40.480 Yeah. 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:40.960 Right. 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:47.519 So it's like, you know, the discipline of like where this is the kind of people we say we are. 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:54.559 And I think Bitcoin is really good at showing you the difference between the performance of who you say you are and what you actually are. 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:55.119 Yeah. 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:55.440 Yeah. 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:55.920 Yeah. 00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:59.839 And I love the what you were saying, that we're we live in a padded society. 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:02.319 Like we do get help, right? 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.720 When we from our system at points. 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:18.319 But that would that's the intimidating part, I think, for a lot of people with Bitcoin is that you you are self-sovereign over things, which is um awesome, but it's also that that security blanket that we think that we need, right? 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:21.599 To be able to help like for some people to getting into the space. 00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:25.920 I think for some people it's intimidating to know, like, oh man, this is all on me. 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:27.839 No one's gonna come and rescue me. 00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:41.839 And like you said, it's gonna hold up a mirror to be like, what is your actual relationship with waiting and actually realizing, like, hey, if you want this type of lifestyle of being self-sovereign or having that freedom to do things the way you want, do you actually believe that? 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.160 You know, like do you actually feel that way? 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.039 So it's such a great way of explaining that. 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:51.599 And I I'm seeing so many parallels around just life in general. 00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:52.240 Yeah. 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:56.319 You know, it's easy to be patient in traffic, it's easy to be patient with your children. 00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:59.599 Is it easy to be patient when you want that number to go up? 00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:03.839 Or you see, or you see the other thing outrunning it. 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:09.599 You know, the the the S coin or you know, the shit coins or you know, whatever. 00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:12.160 Like I had to battle with that a lot, right? 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:13.119 Early on. 00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:16.960 Yeah, you see the thing outrunning it, and it's like, no, I'm I'm a really patient person. 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:20.160 Like, you don't come to Bitcoin with diamond hands, like you don't. 00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:30.559 Yeah, you you gotta like live the thing, and it can instill all those values, I think, like over time, but that's a practice, that's not something that just shows up. 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:36.480 Like, it's it's the practice of sitting with the consequence and and owning it. 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:38.720 Yeah, that is so good. 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:43.680 And then um, just to pivot a little bit too here, Brett, is um uh fuggem. 00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:44.799 I see it everywhere. 00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:45.519 I love it. 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:47.200 Um, the bubblegum. 00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:49.200 I I actually, you know, I love bubblegum. 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:53.759 I don't know if you see my my ex, but I'm always carrying a pack of gum all the time. 00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:03.279 Um, I I guess I need some fugum, or if we could break down exactly this fugum and just break down this whole thing, how it started, uh, what are your plans with it? 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:05.519 Um to share with us. 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.240 This episode is brought to you by MicroSeed. 00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:14.079 Microseed engraves your entire Bitcoin seed phrase onto fireproof, waterproof, steel, or titanium. 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:17.359 Small enough to fin your palm, strong enough to last a lifetime. 00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:20.319 It's durable, easy to hide, and built for secure storage. 00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:25.839 If your seed phrase is still on paper, it's time to upgrade and take self-custody to the next level. 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:28.079 Because not your keys, not your coins. 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:34.799 Go to

microseed.io and use code LUNALUNA for a discount or check the link in the description below. 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:47.680 So um, back in the day, and may this might be a Midwest thing, but um when somebody said something stupid or like brought you down in some way, you just say what kind of gum? 00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:48.559 Fug them. 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:50.720 Like, like, don't worry about it, bro. 00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:52.000 Like, it's it's all good. 00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:58.480 So, like, to be honest, in like a group chat, I just said it randomly and you know, it became kind of this joke. 00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:01.680 I'm like, then I bought the domain. 00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:03.359 I'm like, you know what, this could be something. 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:04.559 I just bought the domain. 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:05.839 Like, you can just do things. 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:10.640 So I bought the domain and I got the the trademarks and everything for it. 00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:20.400 Yeah, and you know, like really, but as I as I grow with it, like the book and like everything I'm about parallels so much with Fugum. 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:23.440 It's it's a modality of pause. 00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:28.720 It's when that thing hits you that you're just brings your day down. 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:37.440 You can look down at a package, and maybe it gives you a chuckle, and there's all kinds of you know, things I can do with it, little comic strips, whatever. 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:45.599 But like it gives you a little chuckle, you pop a piece of gum, you exhale the negativity into the bubble, it pops, and it's gone. 00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:55.200 It's just oh I think it's a way to like it sounds weird to talk about gum like this, but like it can bring presence to your life. 00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:56.000 Yeah, right. 00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:58.799 Like it it can allow you to be where your feet are. 00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.079 It's something as simple as a piece of gum. 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:10.720 Like it's it's just the act of all the things I try to practice in life and just putting it in a physical form. 00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:11.680 Yeah. 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.640 You've made me think about gum completely differently now. 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:16.000 Yeah, yeah, right. 00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:22.160 But and and it's funny, and like, you know, I can make all these gifts, or what do you say, gifs or gifts? 00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:26.640 I don't do I say I think I say gifs, but it's probably gifs. 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:27.119 I don't know. 00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:28.799 It's whatever you want it to be. 00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:30.559 It's whatever you want it to be. 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:31.680 Yeah, fair enough. 00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:38.640 So, like, you know, and I make the gifts and it's funny, and like well, like that's that's the real thing, is I'm just trying to, you know, just let it go. 00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:42.160 Like, it protect your energy, optimize priority. 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.240 Is it worth arguing with people on the internet? 00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:46.160 Like, it's not like fuck them. 00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:47.119 Who gives a shit? 00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:53.759 Like, yeah, literally, you like some person isn't gonna determine the value of the way I look at the world or anything. 00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:54.640 Like, fuck them, yeah. 00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:55.680 Who gives a shit? 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:56.480 Exactly. 00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:57.279 That's so good. 00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:09.119 And like, I think people forget, and I think more helps me develop like this mindset like I was sharing earlier, like nothing really like kind of steers me away from like my energy or like tries to take it away whenever someone says something negative. 00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:14.240 I'm like, people forget like the death rate is a hundred percent still. 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:15.599 Like, who cares? 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:16.640 Like, who cares? 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:23.680 And no one's gonna remember, oh hey, Anthony sent that tweet out, you know, on August 30th at 10 a.m. 00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:25.119 Like blah blah blah. 00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:26.079 Like, what? 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:27.680 Nobody cares. 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.680 And if they do, fug them. 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:31.839 Yeah, and if they do, fuck them. 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:32.640 Think about this. 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:39.200 If you had$1,440 in your bank account and somebody took one of them, would you give them the rest? 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:40.799 No. 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:43.839 Well, there's 1,440 minutes in a day. 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:51.279 If somebody took one of them, are you gonna spend the rest of your day like worrying about with some person on the internet or even in your life? 00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:51.920 Right? 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:53.839 Like it doesn't matter. 00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.079 Like, yeah, just move on with your life. 00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:05.519 And it comes down to like this like controlling your own self-control and not letting external things determine value to you. 00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:06.319 Yeah. 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:07.519 I love that. 00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:09.119 Practicing the pause too. 00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:18.319 I did like a a study once on that, and it's it's so helpful because you can be very reactive in this world too. 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:22.319 And I feel like um I think the system kind of makes us that way, right? 00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:27.759 Like where you're just you are going and going and going, and you're just trying to get to the next thing, to the next thing. 00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:30.559 You're there filling up, you're filling up your calendar, you're doing all these things. 00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:35.119 Not saying that we really do that, but that's what it feels when you look at the people around you. 00:30:35.200

--> 00:30:41.920 It can you start seeing people just being busy for or busy, not even productive, just busy doing random stuff. 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:47.200 And so when I was studying about that, it really put things in perspective for me. 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:50.400 Cause truly, what are we like, what am I reacting for? 00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:51.359 What are we doing? 00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:53.119 What's the purpose of this? 00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:56.880 You know, like really understanding why we're doing certain things. 00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:59.759 Um, and I think that's such a great reminder. 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:09.039 Cause even I'm even considering like starting to give my kids gum now because it's like, let's just get back to like blowing a bubble and like, okay, let's calm our bodies now. 00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:13.200 Like if we're all because obviously we're human, we're gonna have reactions at some point. 00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:20.319 It's not like we're not gonna like, you know, get flustered or whatever, but that's such a great point because we homeschool too. 00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:26.960 So there's times where I'm like, oh my gosh, we need a breather, you know, and let's just let's just blow bubbles, let's do it. 00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:31.920 And there's studies that show like gum helps with memory retention and all kinds of stuff like that too. 00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:35.839 But you know, it I I developed this practice a long time ago. 00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:41.519 Um, like a a being present practice is any it's not it sounds weird to say out loud. 00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:51.119 Anytime like I touch a handle, like on my truck or like my door handle, like I'm when I'm walking into somewhere, I take an inventory of what's happening. 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:54.799 And it's just a quick little like, what am I feeling right now? 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:58.319 Um, how can I be more present in this moment? 00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:12.319 Just kind of like an exhale, just in it is it's just a way to to pause and be cognitive of my present self and just just recenter and be where my feet are. 00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:15.599 Um that's so good. 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:16.799 Like, but you know what? 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:17.359 It's crazy. 00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:26.559 The way my mind works is now every time I touch a door handle to my car, like it will always like this, like little things like this, they stick with me. 00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:32.079 It's kind of crazy because now I'll touch my like door handle when I go into my car, and I'm gonna be like, okay, cool. 00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:33.200 Like I'm about to drive. 00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:37.119 Like, let me make sure I'm aware and I'm focused and not on my cell phone. 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:40.400 And I have my family, so let's do this. 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:46.000 And then, like, or even when I go to work now, I can see myself like unlocking our our office. 00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:46.640

I'll open it. 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:47.839 I'm just gonna be like, okay, cool. 00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:52.079 Like, I need to focus right now and like help as many people as I can today. 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.720 Like, because it, you're right, it's weird. 00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:59.680 There is always a pause whenever you're touching a door handle because you're walking into a new space. 00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:00.640 That's exactly what it's like. 00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:16.799 That's so you're always walking in a new space, whether it's like even coming home, you're like, I'm walking from outside to inside, and I'm about to take in three kids, a dog, my wife, like you know, it's really oh my god, stuck like this, Predict me or ever. 00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:18.319 Yeah, yeah. 00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:19.599 That's exactly right, man. 00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.000 And to be present in that new space, right? 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:30.559 And but like to push further, if you know, it opened with the fogum, you can do the same thing by unwrapping a piece of gum. 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:32.960 Yeah, it's just a check-in. 00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:36.000 And like it may not be in the new space, right? 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:51.519 But it's like it's just a way to check in with yourself and be present in in the moment, which I think, you know, I think a lot of problems stem from like our inability to sit alone with ourselves, yep, and be present. 00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:56.559 So yeah, a lot of people, I think that kind of drives them insane, right? 00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:58.160 And that's what they do in prison, right? 00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:04.799 When like solitary or whatever, they'll put you by yourself because they know that a lot of people can't handle being by themselves. 00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:06.400 Again, it probably this might be totally different. 00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:15.199 I've never been in solitaire, but I'm just saying, like, I like I love and there is so much comfort and peace when I'm by myself. 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:24.079 I really like will soak it up because it's like a these little moments in your day and moments in your life where it's rare, uh in my opinion. 00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:29.119 So, for example, like when I'm in my car and I'm coming home, love that little moment by myself. 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:36.800 If I have if I go on a walk sometimes where the the whole family's taking a nap and I gotta take my dog for a walk, like that, that's peaceful to me. 00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:46.880 Or going to the gym and I'm like locked in and it's just like me and my music or a podcast, I'm like, it's peace, you know, or even just reading a book. 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:48.559 Again, that's peaceful. 00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:50.559 That time alone is peaceful. 00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:56.960 I always look for it too, but I also I'm not like seeking it because I do love being with my family. 00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:59.199 Uh, but that is very,

very interesting. 00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:03.519 You got me thinking about like all these moments in my day now, like that I have. 00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:06.719 Yeah, well, it's it's just great because it's applicable, right? 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.840 Like everyone wants something that they can apply in their life. 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:17.039 Um, because some people are really and it there are so many resources, almost, almost we know too much sometimes. 00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:19.360 I feel like we have too much information, right? 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:25.519 Where I'm like, gosh, like now I'm I'm almost like decision fatigued because I don't know what's gonna work for me, right? 00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:36.800 But like keeping it simple, you keep it so simple, Brett, with like the things that we can just do in that moment where we're going a little like, okay, like how am I feeling right now? 00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:38.960 I obviously feel my heart rate getting up. 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:44.639 I'm getting a little frustrated, my kids are getting frustrated, or whoever's you're around, like, okay, let's just pause. 00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:57.679 Let's just take a breather, step outside, you know, whatever we got to do, eat some gum or blow bubbles even, like just with like a bubble, you know, regular bubbles, you know, just doing stuff like that where we can just keep it simple. 00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:00.800 And I think that's super important for people to just remember. 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:06.159 I feel like uh even in the Bitcoin space, it's very simple. 00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:14.159 You know, like everything that I feel like people's thought processes and like about overall health and wanting the world, it's very simple. 00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:18.239 We just make it harder than it needs to be, just as like humans, right? 00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.920 Um, I'm like so excited to read your book, Brett. 00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:29.760 So many things that are just popping off in my brain, like how Anthony was when he was reading Bitcoin, like that's how my brain's going right now about all that you're telling us. 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:30.320 Yep. 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:34.079 Hey, but uh Brett, uh Bitcoiners talk a lot about thinking for yourself. 00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:39.519 Uh, but can Bitcoiners fall into the same tribal belief traps that they criticize everyone else for? 00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:40.559 Do you think? 00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:44.320 Yeah, no, they're 100% in the same thing. 00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:49.519 Like the machine it doesn't stop just because like you own an asset. 00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:49.920 Yeah. 00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:51.760 And just because you thought about something. 00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:55.920 And I would also argue that like the analysis stops. 00:36:56.400 --> 00:37:14.000 And I would also argue that just because you came early, you understood the thing, you diamond handed, it ran, but now you start taking it into other domains, and now you're like you're the person who diamond handed, and now you think that is the same in other domains as well. 00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:16.159 And it's not always the truth, right? 00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:30.639 And you stop like evaluating it's like, oh, I worked here, and now you're not applying like the same the same processes that got you to conviction in Bitcoin in other things as well, like the questioning and things. 00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:33.599 There are things I think Bitcoiners are very good at. 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:36.559 So stories are compression, right? 00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:41.760 We take a mass amount of information and nuance and compress it into a story. 00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:45.280 An example would be don't trust verify. 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:47.519 It's something you can walk out of the room with. 00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:49.760 Who practices it? 00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:51.599 Not that many. 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:54.559 Who's who's verified the Bitcoin code? 00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:56.559 Who's actually sat and read the code? 00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:01.039 Who's who's like plugged it into Cloud and like like what is this thing doing? 00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:04.559 Who looked at you know the cold card code? 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:13.599 Like I'm just saying, like we we have this a lot and it's the same in every domain, and Bitcoiners aren't immune to it. 00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:22.000 Um, and to think that you are because you thought really hard in one domain, isn't the same thing. 00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:25.840 And the thinking hard and the questioning should never stop. 00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:28.559 Yes, yeah, that's so good. 00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:30.239 We should never stop questioning. 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:31.760 And I think that's what's great. 00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:34.239 That makes Bitcoiners great too, is because like they question. 00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:40.639 I can actually speak for myself, not Bitcoiners, but for me, I was like, man, I was just working hard, I was doing everything right. 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:52.000 I went to school, got a degree, worked my ass off, worked for night big companies, built amazing relationships, got to do amazing trips and things, and then but it still felt empty. 00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:53.920 It still felt like I was missing something. 00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:58.239 It still felt like I was going backwards and I was running full speed and forward. 00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:09.840 Um, I went into like a profession in real estate where it's like, oh, big money, it's it's it's pretty, it's like the next thing, like it's an asset, it goes up, it's an investment, you can do so much. 00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:15.280 Like, I did all of these things, and I was still like nothing was right. 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:22.559 And then I okay, well, let me look into this Bitcoin thing, and I felt like I was always thinking for myself, like, how do I make a move? 00:39:22.639

--> 00:39:23.280 How do I pivot? 00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:23.840 How do I grow? 00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:27.360 How do I get out of this like race, this fiat mindset? 00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:30.719 Um, but it's so funny because we're all like getting finesse. 00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:34.719 We're all like no one, like you said, no one questions what is money. 00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:38.880 I'm like, there's no way, like, how do my parents not know what money is? 00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:40.559 How do my grandparents not know what money is? 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:44.800 It's wild how nobody knows like what money is, you know. 00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:45.119 Right. 00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:52.239 And and reciting facts like so reciting facts isn't the same thing as understanding the thing. 00:39:52.559 --> 00:40:00.239 The book opens up with a story of me reciting facts to like my vice president, and then him asking me a question that I couldn't answer. 00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:09.599 And it's just like it it it just stuck with me forever because it's like I thought I was doing the thing, I was doing the performance. 00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:16.800 And I think every we do this in all domains, but it's like the performance of like and you know what? 00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:19.119 My first book was a performance. 00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:24.000 It was just the argument of why you know Bitcoin is sound money for digital age. 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:31.360 And it is the argument's sound, but it had no soul in it, it was just facts, it was just like, hey, here's the argument. 00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:46.320 There was no like humanity in it, and I really learned a lot from that um pivoting into writing this one, but you know, it's it's real, and it's it's like stuff that I just grappled with, and I think we all grapple with. 00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:53.440 Um Yeah, do you feel like that's sometimes like a stepping stone for people too to like be able to learn? 00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:59.840 I feel I mean, I I've navigated that same, you know, process of, and I think we do in our schooling system anyways, right? 00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:07.519 Of like teaching to a test or um taking a test and getting like, you know, making sure we get 100% on it. 00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:16.559 But then if someone asks me anything on that test after 10 minutes, I'm not gonna be able to recite or tell or anything about that specific topic. 00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:24.320 I there's been so many times where I was like an A student, but I it was always just so I could just get a good grade in on that test, you know. 00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:26.239 So I feel I moved out 100. 00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:34.400 Like right, and so and moving into this age that we're moving into, so information was always gatekeeped, right? 00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:40.639 There was always gatekeepers of information, like college, teachers, like you know, everything, right? 00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:44.159 But now information is out there, right? 00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:45.199 It's almost infrared. 00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:47.280 You can get the information anywhere. 00:41:48.000 --> 00:42:03.199 So really it's those critical thinking skills, the ability to ask why, but then filter the information and not just filter the information that agrees with you and agrees with the the you know what the room thinks. 00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:09.679 Yeah, right, because belief doesn't operate separate from belonging. 00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:11.599 Right? 00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:23.840 We're always reading the room, but like you think about I don't know, at work or something, a person will be complaining about something, but then like go into the meeting and be a totally different character, right? 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.400 Yeah, you always a lot. 00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:27.599 Oh my gosh. 00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:32.400 So it's like just becomes this performance, and like that's not to say like what they are. 00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.599 I think you know, the underlying belief is is different in each room. 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:59.039 I'm just saying that whether it's performing to a test, you know, in the academic setting or you know, in the work setting, like just being a different person, your boss, and all this, like we need consensus as a species because our underlying equipment evolved when belonging had a cost. 00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:02.320 And if you were tossed out of the tribe, you were probably dead. 00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:03.039 Yeah. 00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:21.039 So that's in my mind, I'm thinking like of all the times I needed to like morph my thoughts and even my underlying beliefs and even values, so I could fit the room and fit the mold. 00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:23.039 And I think about like graduating college, right? 00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:25.519 I was never more empty than when I graduated college. 00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:30.719 I completed the thing, I got the goal, I had the title, I was that guy. 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:31.760 And you know what? 00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:34.960 I wasn't that guy because it wasn't aligned with who I was. 00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:35.760 Yeah. 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:42.320 And we I think a lot of us do that. 00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:58.480 Like, we we chase the title or the you know, the the monetary benefits, and we think it's gonna be this thing, and it's gonna give us so much joy and provide all this safety and everything for our families, which is awesome, and we all want that. 00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:01.360 But if you're not at Peace with yourself. 00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:03.519 What's it friggin' matter? 00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:09.280 Like you're not gonna come home and be a good dad if you're mad at your job all the time. 00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:09.760 Yeah. 00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:14.480 Like, you know, it's you're not gonna be present when you're thinking about your work all the time. 00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:14.880 Yeah. 00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:16.559

You're not gonna be where your feet are. 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:17.119 Yeah. 00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:17.599 Yep. 00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:33.119 You know, to add on to that, like, so you're not happy at where you're working at, and this thing sucks the life out of you because you're giving your best time, day, energy, hours, years to this system, this job, this whatever it may be. 00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:44.320 And then you come home and then you're like mad, upset, deals didn't go through, you're tired, and you just take it out on loved ones, right? 00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:48.159 Or you're so tired that you're just giving them complete leftovers. 00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:48.639 Yeah, right. 00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:53.679 And you're just going to say, like, that's that's like that's money right there. 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:55.840 Like, that's yeah, that's so true, right? 00:44:56.480 --> 00:45:02.320 Um because you're not where your feet are, you're just you're not present with those people in that moment. 00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:07.920 Because like why are you trying to build the thing? 00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:13.760 Well, the reason you're trying to build the thing is the exact thing you're nor ignoring in that moment. 00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:20.400 And you're putting the pressure on yourself to do that, but like it's right in front of you the whole time. 00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:43.760 Um, and I just know that I fell into that trap myself, and just like thinking about how I just kind of worked my way out of it, and I just kind of made all these developed all these little heuristics or whatever, just like you know, um, touching the door handle, just things like that, just little tricks and stuff just to be more more present in in our everyday lives. 00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:44.159 Yeah. 00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:45.119 That's good. 00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:48.320 And people always say, like, I would die for my family. 00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:49.519 But like, oh yeah. 00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:52.079 We always say, like, would you live for your family? 00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:54.559 Would you live a present-filled life? 00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:58.159 Would you live like a would you live fully for your family? 00:45:58.320 --> 00:45:58.559 Yeah. 00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:00.719 Rather than like, oh, I would take a bullet for them. 00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:01.760 Blah, blah, blah. 00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:04.320 I'm like, yeah, bro, but would you live for your family? 00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:07.280 Would you do everything possible to give them the best life ever, right? 00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:15.599 Whether it's pivoting out of a new job, whether it's learning a new skill set, you know, whether it's starting a new business, like whatever it may be, like would you live for your family? 00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:20.400 Like, bro, who cares if you like what good are you dead to if like you took the bullet for them, right? 00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:21.920 Like, what are we talking about? 00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:24.800 Uh no, that's a really good that's really good. 00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:25.440 That's really good. 00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:28.159 Everything's really easy in the abstract. 00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:28.719 Yeah. 00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:29.199 Right? 00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:31.360 It's all really easy in the abstract. 00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:32.159 And it's the same thing. 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:33.760 I'll just bring it back to Bitcoin. 00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:35.760 Bitcoin takes the abstract away. 00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:37.840 And it's right, yeah. 00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:41.760 The consequence is actually right there, and you actually have to do it. 00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:43.519 It's not abstract anymore. 00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:50.239 Your relationship with all these things is right there, and the consequence is in front of you, and you have to make a choice. 00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:52.239 And that choice is who you are. 00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:53.119 Yes. 00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:54.000 Yes. 00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:54.960 That's good. 00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:56.880 So much deeper than just Bitcoin. 00:46:56.960 --> 00:47:06.960 It's your whole who you are becoming in when you are learning more about Bitcoin, the value system that you're developing, the person that you want to become in Bitcoin, you know. 00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:20.159 Um, I think this is such an impactful message that you've been able to one, go through it yourself, which has been total, probably, you know, that personal development, but also being able to share it in words, on pages, on books. 00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:30.880 And I I love that you were so authentic in saying that your first book was really about just kind of, in a sense, re for lack of better words, regurgitating information so that people understood it right. 00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:38.159 But then this next book is something that really comes from that humanity aspect of understanding our minds, understanding our belief system. 00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:43.039 And I'm just really excited to kind of be able to understand that better personally. 00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:50.239 I always think that's one of the areas that we really love is that personal growth aspect of just finding ways where we can be more present. 00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:54.239 And if it aligns with our value system, we will try it. 00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:55.039 You know what I mean? 00:47:55.199 --> 00:48:00.559 And it's it's super important for us to be able to do those things and continue to grow. 00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.880 And we always say we're lifelong learners. 00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:05.519 Like if we're not learning and growing, like what's the point? 00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:06.159 You know? 00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:06.960 Yep. 00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:08.800 And I just want to like add 100%. 00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:17.840 Seek to understand where, like, on your book, like, hey, where's where's Brett coming from on this?

00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:19.679 Like, what's his perspective on this, right? 00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:21.599 Uh, he's a big corner like us as well. 00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:23.599 But like you said, we see it from different angles. 00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:25.679 We see it from different our inherited beliefs. 00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:29.599 So let's see where he sees it from and how this whole thought process works. 00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:34.960 And which is really cool because I did not think we were gonna go into like stuff like this right now on this uh podcast today. 00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:35.519 Yeah. 00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:47.599 And um one of the one of the final questions we we always really appreciate asking our guests too is you know, if someone's just coming into the Bitcoin space, um what's some great advice? 00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:58.400 I mean, if they listen to this episode, they'll have great advice, but what is other advice that you would give someone just stepping into learning more about what Bitcoin is and coming into that space? 00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:06.000 Yeah, I've I've heard you ask that on other episodes, and I think it's it's such a great question, right? 00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:12.320 Um the first thing is write it down first before you have skin in the game. 00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:21.920 Write down why you think Bitcoin is and the the reason why is it's the smartest thing I did. 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.840 And I I just wrote down the world is becoming more digital. 00:49:26.239 --> 00:49:31.360 Um there's only 21 million Bitcoin is sound money for a digital age. 00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:43.360 And the reading the reason why I think writing it down is so important is that if you're in a calm space with no skin in the game and no money at stake, right? 00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:51.760 And when a 70% drawdown hits or it starts running, you're gonna be a totally different person in that moment. 00:49:52.960 --> 00:50:02.159 And paper doesn't change, it's gonna hold that thought that you had when you were calm and thinking clearly. 00:50:02.559 --> 00:50:07.679 And I think to me, that was the the most impactful thing that I did. 00:50:08.079 --> 00:50:15.360 And I think the other thing is is smaller is don't let somebody else's conviction stand for your own. 00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:20.239 Yeah, you gotta build your your own conviction. 00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:32.800 Um when because when you outsource it and you know those drawdowns hit or it runs, uh it does something you don't expect or does exactly what you do expect. 00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:47.119 If somebody else's conviction is a stand-in for your own, you're no longer thinking you're for yourself and you're just playing the performance and you're playing to the room and not your own um like the reason why you got in it. 00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:48.159 Yeah. 00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:50.159 So it's so good, Brett. 00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:51.039 So good. 00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:52.000 I love that. 00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:58.400 And it did the whole idea of writing it down, was it you came up with that, or did someone tell you to do that before you got into the Bitcoin space? 00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:03.440 Well, so like I studied a lot before I actually bought Bitcoin. 00:51:03.599 --> 00:51:12.000 And like a lot of these things were like, you know, books I read, like even I don't want to say Ray Dalio said it, but like whatever. 00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:14.880 Some some books somewhere said, like, write down your thesis. 00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:16.880 So, you know, I really thought about that. 00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:22.320 I talk about this in the Belief Machine actually in like the last section is called Three Lines. 00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:22.880 Okay. 00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:31.360 Um, but like when I wrote it down and I understood it to the best that I could at the time, I still got trapped. 00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:35.760 I was still trading all these other things, right? 00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:42.559 And really what saved me was finding it in a notebook because I used to write everything down. 00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:51.519 Well, I still write everything down, but I used to write down like daily like number, you know, everything and like different article headlines that I'd find and stuff. 00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:57.599 But like I found this and I'm like, oh my god, like this isn't why I got into this in the first place. 00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:05.039 Like, why am I like sitting here in this parking lot trying to figure out what the Tampa Bay Zoo is gonna name the baby rhinoceros? 00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:06.320 Like, this is ridiculous. 00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:07.599 Like, what are you even doing here? 00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:09.280 Just so I could buy the meme coin. 00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:11.440 It's like, what are you even doing here? 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:16.079 So I don't know, it was just like it it kept myself in check. 00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:23.360 I know it's it's ridiculous, but like I was that guy, yeah, but it told me where I was coming from to begin with. 00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:25.679 It it gave a foundation, right? 00:52:25.840 --> 00:52:35.199 Yes, and I think it's important that we all understand like why we got into this in the first place, because that's where it's really gonna come from when it matters. 00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:37.039 Yes, that is so good. 00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:41.360 Even when it goes up or even when it goes down, too, you're so right. 00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:45.920 Like, that's just like you could just fall back on on that what you wrote down. 00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:50.480 That is so good because you do change when it goes up, and you do change when it goes down. 00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:55.920 And you and you change when you and you change when it stays leveled as well, too, you know. 00:52:56.159 --> 00:52:57.840 Um, dude, that's so good. 00:52:57.920 --> 00:52:59.280 Look, and I'm so glad we all grow. 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:00.960 Like, look at you, look at you, Brett. 00:53:01.039 --> 00:53:03.119 You know how much guessing this is right off. 00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:07.920 Thank goodness we all grow. 00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:10.880 Oh my gosh, that's so good. 00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:11.760 That's so good. 00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:23.840 Well, we appreciate you so much, Brett, and what you're doing, just one for just the human race and all of the things that you're sharing with us and the psychology behind so much of what um goes into how our beliefs happen. 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:26.719 And I this always has always interested me as well. 00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:37.039 Um, but then also into the Bitcoin space, really helping people understand why they believe what they believe and and really questioning um a lot more about what's going on around them. 00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:38.159 So I love this. 00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:39.280 This has been awesome. 00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:41.840 Um, but yeah, where can people connect with you? 00:53:42.079 --> 00:53:43.199 Um, yeah. 00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:49.599 Um, first and for I guess because 21 on X, I guess. 00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:53.039 Um, and then the beliefmachine.org. 00:53:53.280 --> 00:54:06.159 Um I've been putting essays and just kind of like after afterthoughts um from just kind of thinking about how other people are interacting with this book and it's it's bringing up other things, right? 00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:10.960 Um so kind of like a continuation of the book, thebeliefmachine.org. 00:54:11.119 --> 00:54:15.519 I guess I have a YouTube channel as be every every beac 21. 00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:16.480 Um, everyone. 00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:18.880 And chew fuggum.com. 00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:19.760 Yes. 00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:20.639 Fuggum. 00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:22.719 We are buying that gum ASAP. 00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:23.440 Fuggem. 00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:26.639 That it's gonna be a great reminder for us to just be present. 00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:34.719 And it was all of these, all of this was such a great reminder of what's really important and just being present, you know, knowing where your feet are, like you said. 00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:39.440 So we appreciate you, Brett, and thank you so much for being on our show. 00:54:39.519 --> 00:54:45.039 And thank you to our audience who's tuning in today to To the Moon with the Lunas, and we'll see you all on the moon. 00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:46.159 Peace. 00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:50.719 You made it this far, so you might as well hit that subscribe button. 00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:53.840 You won't want to miss the conversations we got coming next. 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:56.320 Thanks for watching, and we'll see you on the moon.