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Shift Stirrers – Setting Up a gallery exhibition.

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WEBVTT 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.760 Welcome to the Shift Dirts. 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:07.360 Before we dive in, we acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands where we record. 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:13.199 Michelle and Rosemary work on the lands of the Bun Morang and Warangeri people of the Kulin Nation. 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:17.120 We pay our respects to elders past, present, and emerging. 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:29.760 As we talk about transitions and shifts in our own lives, we recognise that First Nations people have been adapting, surviving and thriving on this continent for over 65,000 years. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:32.399 The world's longest continuing culture. 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:36.799 Sovereignty was never seeded, always was, always will be. 00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:40.159 So, Rosemary, how are we stirring the shift today? 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:41.359 I'm not sure. 00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:42.880 I think you're going to tell me. 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:44.880 You don't know how we're stirring the shift? 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:49.759 Well, Rosemary, we are doing a podcast where we are all in the same room. 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:53.679 And we've got the lovely Donna and Anna with us. 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:57.280 And yeah, that's stirring the shift as far as I'm concerned, Rosemary. 00:00:57.600 --> 00:00:58.560 It certainly is. 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:00.799 Do you know why we stir the ship first more? 00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:01.679 No, I don't. 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:02.479 You don't. 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:15.920 We do it so that people who are interested in changing their lifestyle from a corporate career to a more artisian lifestyle can actually listen to what other people are doing and get curious about that change. 00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:17.439 So I'm Michelle Benson. 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:20.719 And I'm Rosemey Patterson, and we are the shifters. 00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:22.560 Yay! Thank you. 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:25.359 Okay, welcome Donna and Anna. 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:26.079 Now we do. 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:28.319 Hi guys, thank you for having us. 00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:30.959 Would you like to tell me a bit about yourself, Dana? 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:36.319 Okay, I see myself as a sculptor and installation artist. 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:47.439 I use um natural materials like bone, fish skin, pig gut that I clean and tan and um bring into my art. 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:49.040 Oh beautiful, beautiful. 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:53.200 I've worked with both Dana and Anna and their work is fantastic. 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:55.599 Anna, would you like to describe your work as well? 00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:56.640 Sure. 00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:02.799 So yeah, I'm a ceramic artist from Sydney originally, but I now live in like in Melbourne. 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:05.280 I usually work with Vecil. 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:08.159 Or most of my work will use slip in some way. 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:15.919 Very interested in looking at gesture and movement within different forms of slip, be it liquid or viscous. 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:17.919 That's okay, that's fascinating. 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:21.280 We're really happy to have you here. 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:23.680 This is going to be a giggly one, I can say. 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:26.080 Um I can't. 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:32.479 Now, what we're going to talk to you about today is about how to set up a gallery exhibition. 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:39.199 So a lot of people, um, a lot of our listeners are in their emerging stages of being an artist. 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:42.000 They're probably on their first, their second exhibition. 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:50.400 Roseme and I were fortunate enough to do an exhibition with yourselves and the lovely Amy Cohen, who is not with us today. 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:54.960 But we got so much from, I learned so much from you ladies. 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:59.680 So I just thought this would be something that our listeners would be interested in too. 00:02:59.919 --> 00:03:02.800 Um, Roseme, would you like to ask the first question? 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:08.960 Yes, and Michelle, we did it in this room, your studio, so that was a lot of fun as well. 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:10.080 It was fun. 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:12.479 And I am asking Anna. 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:18.560 You come from the graphic design and digital media, incredibly controlled films. 00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:24.240 Your ceramic work is more spent on tones, if I'm right, with gesture and action. 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:30.400 How has that design background influenced how you think about installing and displaying your work? 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:32.719 Yeah, it's it's a huge influence. 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:38.800 Um it's you know, I didn't know designer, so it's about a an easy one to shake off. 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:48.080 Um and all those design skills that I've learnt and um you know can carry through strongly into exhibition setup or design. 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:53.680 And I think a lot of artists actually intuitively have a lot of those skills and ability to see. 00:03:53.840 --> 00:04:03.840 I think how things are aligned and contrast and repetition, all those kind of design principles that you know artists probably engage with without realizing it, maybe. 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:09.840 So yeah, it's it's been um a huge influence, and I've had a long career in graphic design. 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:15.759 You know, I'm always happy to use my graphic design to do any promotional materials for exhibition. 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:18.879 What a grave extra to your house. 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:21.680 It's it is lovely. 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:37.839 Um I think I was thinking that when you said about the um intuitiveness of putting uh installing your work, and and I think that's that is something that you learn as an artist to trust that instinct. 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:43.040 And I think we all do that with you know
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in your books and in your your ceramic works. 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:51.839 And I and I think that's one of the most difficult things to learn or or to let go or to yeah, to let go of no, it's to trust, isn't it? 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:53.680 To trust is that instinct. 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:55.199 And that's yeah. 00:04:56.240 --> 00:05:02.319 Maybe time or you know, some people just seem to have it, but it's taken me a little time to trust. 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:14.000 And I well I think that's how it worked really well with all of us here, because when something was off, there was so many other people that could say, Oh yeah, okay, I see that, and what about if you try that? 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:20.079 And and they offered different ways of of just moving, even it was just slightly to the left or to the right. 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:22.480 It you know really helped bring it all together. 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:25.519 Yeah, and that was a collective absolute yeah, yeah. 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:26.560 That's great. 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:27.759 That's wonderful. 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:36.079 Your materials, bone, gut, copper, skin, hair, they're not conventional gallery materials, and I remember them hanging up here. 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:41.360 You knew what you wanted, which installing work that's both fragile and has such a presence. 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:44.879 What have you learned about displaying those pieces over the years? 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:47.759 I think it's it is that trust that we were talking about. 00:05:47.920 --> 00:06:00.000 So um I think originally I thought everything that I made was really fragile and I was really worried that um that they would move too much or they might you know, might fall apart. 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:00.639 I I don't know. 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:09.120 I think that um having it here, what what was wonderful was that everything that I was nervous about actually became a bonus. 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:10.319 It was such a plus. 00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:18.720 I learned so much about how because previously when I had had an exhibition, everything was in a tight environment. 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:24.160 So it had a plinth on the floor, it didn't allow people to walk through the work. 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:44.240 And so I entered this exhibition with this huge fear of, oh my gosh, there's you know, people are going to be banging it and and walking through it and touching and in actual fact, because that happened, I grew so much in that one, I trusted my work, and two, there was such awe and wonder both ways. 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:51.040 So from people who were walking through it, but also for me to watch their faces and how they were experiencing the work. 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:55.759 So I guess this uh doesn't answer the question, but then I've just I've gone off somewhere. 00:06:55.839 --> 00:07:00.079 But that was, yeah, it was really exciting, and it was such a huge lesson for me. 00:07:00.319
--> 00:07:07.600 I've really walked away going, Wow, okay, it's opens up doors of of other ways that I can do my exhibition. 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:20.240 Huge benefits of um, you know, if you haven't exhibited much before, is just getting out there and doing it because you're gonna see your work in a different way, and it's really exciting to have it, you know. 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:21.759 It's just a small exhibition. 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:28.720 We set it up opening night, you've got people coming in, gauging, and you Yeah, it's you don't see yeah, it's very informative. 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:31.279 Everything is informative, that's exactly right. 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:36.000 I'm I'm gonna add to it to that and say that I've been to a couple of exhibitions lately. 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:37.759 Names I can't remember. 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:41.759 I always think of her as the dot lady and yeah, yeah. 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:48.720 Yeah, that's what and uh she her work is so immersive. 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:58.800 And I think that my perception of when I exhibit and how I exhibit has changed because of experiencing her work. 00:07:59.120 --> 00:07:59.839 That's fantastic. 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:06.240 Yeah, I think that that's something if you haven't done an exhibition before and you're thinking about doing one, go to big exhibitions. 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:11.439 Yeah, because uh even we went to the Vivian Westwood one, which we were actually doing a podcast on. 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:19.759 We learned so much going to that, and the way they present them these days and the immersiveness of them is just incredible. 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:21.600 Yeah, that's that's a good learning. 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:26.480 Oh, yeah, it's you go in with that in mind, you know, the curse of the designers. 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:29.279 You're always kind of looking at, oh, how is that thing done? 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:40.320 Do but yeah, you do, and um it's nice just to put that lens on for a minute when you're in a new exhibition and just just look around and see how things are done. 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:41.600 Big and small. 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:52.320 Lighting, I think we didn't have much lighting in here that we played with, but lighting is so important, and and and in my next exhibition, lighting is gonna play a huge part, actually. 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:53.679 A huge part. 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:54.639 That's great. 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:59.360 I remember Anna, you working with your pints for a long time and changing them. 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:03.120 This question is about what makes a display resonate. 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:06.879 So your work seeks resonance with the natural world. 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:12.320 Like when you walk into a gallery and see your work installed, what's going on there? 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:18.799 So you've hit the nail on the head, I think, with lighting is really key, especially the porcelain work. 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:26.240 And just like considered lighting, I think, is is also I mean I like exhibitions that have created a mood and a story. 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:28.399 I find it's they really resonate. 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.919 You know, you're kind of guided through the space and nothing's jarring. 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.519 Go to the next, be it visually or thematically. 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.600 And yeah, you it it's a space that guides you through. 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:46.720 You know, you know, you get to some shows that are too crowded or too many works and you don't want to go in there. 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:48.480 I think you get lost in it, don't you? 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:51.200 Yeah. 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:55.600 Well, because you want the pieces for people to spend time with each piece. 00:09:55.919 --> 00:10:02.399 And it's it's like going into an op shop and it's really crowded, and I just have to walk out because I can't I can't think enough. 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:04.000 So really I think it is. 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:09.120 It is it's pulling back and and allowing each piece room to breathe. 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:09.759 I love that. 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:10.559 And you know what? 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:14.080 I I think about that statement all the time now. 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:16.159 Have to let the work breathe. 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:18.960 It's gotta stop being so cluttered. 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:25.200 And in fact, some stuff that I'm working on at the moment, I'm now I'm thinking about this hand myself, is it breathing enough? 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:29.840 So yeah, it is something that is always, always in the back of my mind. 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:36.559 And I think Donna helped you with your letting it breathe, whether how many things to display. 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:37.200 That's correct. 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:39.039 Can you talk about that? 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:46.879 Well, I actually had when we had our exhibition here, I had I think 24 paintings ready to hang. 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:48.799 But I ended up only hanging five. 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:54.639 Um, and I'd also got some porcelain masks, which I I still have up there. 00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:57.120 And um I hung them. 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:06.320 And I think that it was the fact that there was less there made what was there look more uh not important, but it all could speak. 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:06.799 Yes. 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:10.320 That so it could breathe and speak, which I think is very important. 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:20.399 That they played off each other, so it it may it gave that whole space an air of where we could go in and experience it. 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.720 Whereas if it had been cluttered, it would have been just where are we going here? 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:26.159 What am I supposed to look at? 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:28.639 You know, what what am I supposed to understand from this? 00:11:28.720
--> 00:11:30.799 And I think that's where it is, isn't it? 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:32.639 It's just trying to focal point. 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:38.159 Yeah, to understand what you're trying to say, or I don't know, I don't think it's about trying to understand it. 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.000 It's about trying to have presence, isn't it? 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:45.360 Yes, room to see and so Donna, your question was similar. 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:55.600 That's they've sort of almost done it anymore from you on that about making work truly sing, and especially with your other world worldly stillness. 00:11:55.840 --> 00:12:03.200 Well, I think um I kind of like the the word sing, but uh for me I really aim for stillness and presence. 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:11.200 And I like the idea that one, the work asks people to stop and feel and breathe. 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:13.440 You know, just that to remember to breathe. 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:24.080 Because I think we live in such a fast-paced world that we're it's full of media and social media and you know, it's all bang, bang, bang, fast, it's all got to be over in a second. 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:32.960 And I think we just all need to just stop and breathe and to feel and listen again to what we have already. 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:39.120 Um yeah, I think that's it's just oh you know what's a lot because you've got such beautiful details. 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:44.159 So you get the right lighting and you draw and you're fascinated by it because you're wondering what it's made out of. 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:53.759 Um, but also when we had the exhibition here and they were just shifting ever so lightly and they're dangling down, just very soft movement. 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:54.799 It was just stunning. 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:55.440 Thank you. 00:12:55.600 --> 00:13:03.840 I'll get you to send me photos of the work from that exhibition so that I can actually add them to the podcast and people can see what we're talking about. 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:08.639 Because you know, Donna, I can still visualize your work in here. 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:16.240 I can I I I have beautiful plants hanging out there, but I I can still if I close my eyes, I can still see your work. 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:19.759 And that to me means that it really made a statement in me. 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:25.039 So it's from all your wisdom now we're on to um mistakes for our listeners. 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:33.519 Um I know, but but with your designer, you'd probably have a trained eye for what else sort of some mistakes you might want to tell our listeners okay. 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:43.840 You know, the types of exhibitions I've been involved in, some have been, you know, more at the ward shows where you send your work in and you really don't get a say. 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:45.919 So let's make that click. 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:52.000 Yeah, you can write down, and I've done this with special needs that it has, and it
gets ignored. 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:54.240 So just be prepared for that. 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:59.600 If you're sending your work off to a you know, a show that's curated elsewhere. 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:09.440 Um yeah, and and actually, like because I've had a lot of things go a bit wrong with that, and I I don't think I would enter work that has conditional. 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:21.440 Having said that, and I agree, because I've also had that where you feel like your work was overshadowed by something my mind's very earthy, so you can yeah, if it's full of something that's really bright, they kind of don't work together at all. 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:30.159 But having said that, with the last exhibition, group exhibition I was in, they were so careful with the way they displayed it. 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:31.679 I was really overwhelmed by that. 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.519 I was something like no, but it is something, yeah. 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:41.919 So that there is good out there, but just I guess what I was saying is once you've released it, you don't have control. 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:42.879 You don't have control. 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:46.559 And unless it's a painting that becomes quite challengeable. 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:53.440 I I can I can tell you a story and um uh um of someone very close to me that I know very well. 00:14:53.759 --> 00:15:03.120 Uh a prince in Paris when she was in Paris, and um took it in to get it framed and said to the frame, well, you framed it wrong. 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:07.759 And the frame said, No, this piece is supposed to be standing up. 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:09.279 I said, No, no, no. 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:15.360 She's a newt by Monet, and she's supposed to be lying down, and um, yeah, it was supposed to be standing up. 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:18.159 And Monet. 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:24.000 When it comes to comes to that, really, whoever takes it away can do whatever they like with it. 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:25.600 Well, that's that's yeah, yeah. 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:36.480 And this is an aside from what you're saying, but uh I believe that once you've created something and it goes to someone else, it's it's it's it's its own person, its own story. 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:38.799 It creates its own thing. 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:40.799 So you're no longer in control of that. 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:42.159 Yeah, yeah, you're rough. 00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:43.840 Release the control. 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:53.759 But then I guess my other advice is the flip side of that, which is more the artist run initiatives and that kind of you're doing everything yourself. 00:15:53.919 --> 00:16:11.200 So that's um I think I've been in situations where artists hadn't really thought of you know, so just taking the time to prepare before you come in, like get everything, lots of preparation, make sure if you need to get shells and things sorted that you do that. 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.720 Don't necessarily rely on the space to provide that for you. 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:19.120 Often they will, but um they might not be in the best shape. 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:24.320 You know, I you know, just painting a plinth as well can really enhance your work. 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.799 I think it's a certain type of white, which works well with my porcelain, for example. 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:40.879 That's a good thing to consider, and I think um, yeah, when you're setting up a show and you know, everybody's there and everyone wants to be respectful of everybody in space. 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:47.200 Sometimes a leader will kind of come out, and other times, you know, it's like, no, what do you want? 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:48.159 Yeah, what do you want? 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:50.960 Like everyone's usually love too lovely, anyway. 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:55.279 Um so it can be a long day of just negotiating. 00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.120 It is important, I think, at some point. 00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:58.480 No, no, no, I agree. 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:06.880 I I have to admit that this was the first group show that I'd ever set up that put works into group exhibitions and you've got no say in it. 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:14.079 And the other exhibitions, the solo ones I've had, I've been in control of where it's going, but I've had somebody to help me install it. 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.240 So it's um yeah. 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:20.799 But so this was the first one, and and I think you were the you were a great leader, Anna. 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.640 I think I think there was a lot of clarity between everyone. 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:25.839 I think it worked out really well. 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:28.079 I think we all Tom, of course, Tom Ells. 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.559 Who actually came and um did a lot of the installation, which took pressure off us? 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.480 Oh, it was fantastic, yeah, yeah. 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:44.319 And he had such great experience and and he had his own aesthetics and he his aesthetics sort of reached us reached in with all of us, didn't it? 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:47.359 But like we all agree that that it was all it was all good with. 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:50.960 I think it made made it um cohesive. 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.440 Yeah, right. 00:17:53.839 --> 00:18:01.759 I was thinking that when you're actually in a group exhibition and everybody's got different things, getting that cohesive feel. 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.440 And a lot of people did say to me, oh wow, it's cohesive. 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:09.119 So getting that cohesive feel I think is very, very important. 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:16.559 And that was the the flow that Adam was talking about was you know entering in and then having a direction, how to flow around the room. 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:21.759 And if you watch, most people had that direction, almost like a figure eight. 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:25.119 Yeah, and we
turned we didn't know what children was installing, didn't we? 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:25.599 No. 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:34.559 It was quite a feat actually to sit to look at all our works and work out which ones resonated with each other and where they needed to sit in relation to each other. 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.119 And I think that short period of time we did. 00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:38.480 And we did very well. 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:48.240 But I think what was one of the best things that happened with that is that you had invited us here prior to the setup day to get to know the space and understand it. 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:53.039 I guess that in that way we kind of had where things may or may not go. 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:54.480 Is it lunchtime, Michelle? 00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:58.160 Too it's uh for me though, uh it's left me with a beautiful feeling. 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:06.559 I think it blessed this studio in a way because um I I'm I d uh to to actually have an exhibition in here again would be a feat. 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:10.240 I'd have to hire a taxi truck on a taxi truck. 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.960 And I don't think I could I I don't think I could do it. 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:14.799 So it's got lovely memory. 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:20.000 It was such a good idea, and it was um yeah, it was really beautiful. 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:24.079 Um not just on your eye, but you seem to work on each other's. 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:38.400 I think um well, I think that was um not so much the installation part, but our work, the work that I bought in because I knew um what Amy's her uh textile work was, I bought work in that really complemented that. 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:42.720 I mean I bought a heap of other things which we didn't put out because they weren't necessary. 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:47.119 Um so I chose the ones that complemented each other and it was it was exciting. 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:48.720 We had that moment of a buzz. 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:50.640 So oh, these were great together. 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.160 And it was really funny because we were all happy just sitting hanging around. 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:54.640 Yes. 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.039 The whole again, we were just all happy just hanging around. 00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:58.880 Yeah, in the space, it was nice. 00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:00.160 So we've got feeling nice. 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:05.119 So um let's move to the next question, and I'll just ask it and see who wants to answer it. 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:05.359 Yeah. 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:06.960 That's how we're going, isn't it? 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:15.200 So um when we talk about how installation transforms experience, we've talked about the flow of demand setup. 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:23.599 Um, how can you give an example of um how the installation might have changed the way people engaged in the experience? 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:38.720 I can I can give an example of that um some of the
work I did at uni, which has a lot of pieces, and I install that in a room at uni, and it's kind of my first experience of like understanding what it means to activate a space. 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:44.480 Like I had the work hanging, I I couldn't control the lighting so much, so it was natural lighting mostly. 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.279 But a lot of space between these objects. 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:56.319 Watching, I like with your work done, and watching people just walk amongst it and that very quiet, sort of contemplative state they got in. 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:58.720 I was quite like amazed by it actually. 00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:00.319 And um it was lovely. 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:12.480 And then I did the same, I displayed the same piece of work in a gallery setting, which was a bit more controlled, the pieces were closer together, and the light was such a different feel, I can't tell you. 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:25.279 Like it sort of put people outside of work, just not even because of the way like you could still sort of walk near it, but the lighting of it as well gave it but you stepped back from it rather than moving in. 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:27.759 Yeah. 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:34.000 But the benefit of that particular show was it had all these beautiful shadows came off the work. 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.119 So I think they were both successful. 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.039 Um exhibitions, I just think displays, I should say. 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:46.640 But um it was just really, really informative for me to see the work in those two environments. 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:47.519 I learned a lot. 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:52.640 Yeah, I think um that's interesting because I had a my last solo the exhibition. 00:21:52.720 --> 00:22:01.279 I I um I really wanted my work to be in like more still and and have that uh find a Balance within it all. 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:05.839 And the gallery put this bright light on it. 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:13.279 Which was lovely because it had copper bits and it and it kind of picked up my nose and all and there was a lot of shimmering things happening. 00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:15.680 But there was a lot of shadow. 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:24.240 And um like the shadows from my work, I think they're gorgeous, but I was a little bit overwhelmed by the shadows because I thought it took over. 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:25.440 Shriveling it. 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:25.839 Yes. 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:28.480 So but that was on opening night. 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:32.160 During the day, when the light was coming through the windows of the gallery, it changed. 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:39.920 Then it softened the shadows a little bit, which I was so glad to see because I really I didn't want the work to be about the shadows. 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:41.279 I wanted the work to be about the work. 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:42.079 Is that what I said? 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:44.880 So anyway, it lighting can be a challenge. 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:46.319 That is a funny way, isn't it? 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.400 It was always opening night, and the words can look really different from the rest of the show. 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:54.000 Can I throw in a curveball question? 00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:55.359 That's that's not the question. 00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:02.720 I've used um Erin as our sound designer recently, and she's creating the background music in this podcast. 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:06.640 Uh and uh I've learned a lot about sound from Erin. 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:13.680 And I was wondering, have you used sound in your excessions in certain ways to actually transform an exhibition as well? 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.640 That's really great. 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:15.680 That's a great question. 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:21.440 I have in the past used sound for outdoor exhibitions. 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:28.640 And it is it was meant to create uh, you know, another world being used to bring people into an attorney table. 00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:39.599 Um, one one exhibition that's they were done, it's like a done on the um train station, uh one of the um rooms in the old uh train stations. 00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:44.960 So passers by and people commuting can can see your art. 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:52.559 And this particular piece had a heartbeat that went for it, but they asked us to turn it off because it was scary. 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:55.519 It was a book book. 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.400 So you know, maybe sometimes you have to think about it. 00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:16.559 I've been thinking about the uh, you know, bringing music for ages in with my art, but then I wonder if it will, especially with my installations, whether it will steer it too much for people not to let allow the viewers to have their own mind, you know, make up their own mind about their and finding like their selves in it. 00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:20.160 You know, it would be made yeah, it's it's something that could be quite fun. 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:22.480 It c it it could it could be a lot of fun. 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:29.440 Um and it's something that I'm thinking about for my next ex for my exhibition when I'm when when it gets it gets finished. 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:35.359 Yeah, it's definitely something that I think it's uh yeah, things that it's really worth looking into. 00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:44.160 Well we we looked at it with the podcasts and I think it's we um it makes a big difference because you can use it to change the tempo of a conversation. 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:48.559 Uh you can use it to make something some more serious or more sad. 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:50.720 And I I learned all that thank you, Erin. 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:51.759 I learned all of that. 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:54.960 We should keep moving because I have got no idea how long we've been going. 00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:56.960 I've got no idea either. 00:24:57.440 --> 00:24:58.079 That's
okay. 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:00.319 Um, great. 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:13.279 So practical wisdom for first-time installers for someone who is going to be installing their first solo show and they're working with unconventional materials, maybe not burning gut at something challenging. 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:14.559 So for you, Donna? 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:17.759 I'd say yeah, I think I think that's a great question. 00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:26.720 I definitely think that you have to know your materials, and I don't I don't think it matters what you're using, you just have to know your materials, how they move. 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.640 You need to, I'll guess again, overcrowding. 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:31.519 Don't overcrowd. 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:33.279 Give everything space. 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:39.599 And and that's something like you said, Michelle, you made all these beautiful paintings, but you didn't use them all in your exhibition. 00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:42.240 I make a lot of work, but they don't all go in. 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:42.640 Yes. 00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:50.400 And I think that there are certainly I've been to a couple of exhibitions where I just wish they'd pulled back a little bit. 00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:52.880 You know, there there were too many ideas happening. 00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.920 Um, and and I'm not saying that I'm perfect because I love it. 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:01.519 But yes, when you just think, okay, but you've got this idea and you've got this idea, you've got this idea and you've got this idea. 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:03.839 What happened if you pulled at least two of them out? 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:04.079 Yeah. 00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:06.480 And then just kept the two flowing. 00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:16.160 And I think your idea of a a retail store is a good idea for an emerging artist to think about you're walking and wear so much stuff, you just walk straight out. 00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:16.880 Yeah. 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:17.279 Yeah. 00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:18.160 And Anna? 00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:21.200 Um, yeah, I think Darnell, you're right. 00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:24.960 Like bringing extra work if you can, I think, is a really good idea. 00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:30.000 But just be prepared, you're not going to show it all exactly what's going to work best into you in this space. 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:30.799 A lot of the time. 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:32.319 Sometimes it you can't do it. 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:37.920 If you can bring one or two extra pieces, I I always think that's a good way forward. 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:38.799 Be prepared. 00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:39.839 Be prepared. 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:40.960 Have to be prepared. 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:41.839 I've always got it. 00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:43.039 Preparation. 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.480 Yeah, I think I think we talked about the toolbox we both. 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:46.880 Yes. 00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:50.000 Yeah, the install toolbox is is key. 00:26:50.160 --> 00:27:00.400 Yeah, you got your tape measures, your rulers, yeah, yeah, museum gel, um, drills, draw bits, touch-up paint, electrical cords, like whatever you might need. 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:01.039 Oh, totally. 00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:02.720 Go over overkill it. 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:06.079 Like it's it's because you'll never have enough enough. 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:11.680 And even if the gallery has most of these things, you've got multiple people wanting to use them at the same time. 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:12.160 Yes. 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:16.079 Um, so you're gonna be the hero in the toolbox, which is good. 00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:16.480 Yeah. 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:20.880 And also when you're setting up, just be prepared that you're probably gonna move your work. 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:26.319 Just, you know, make sure your work's packaged in a way that you can move it without damage. 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:34.400 You know, you got people with ladders and spirit levels and things can get broken, especially if you know it's your first time doing it. 00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:35.039 Just you know. 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:39.920 And with me, the um with installation work, I I come with a map. 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:46.319 So I know exactly and usually I know the room size and I know how I'm going to how where I want it placed and things. 00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:55.440 So I come with a map of so for me, the positioning on the ceiling, where I want each piece, and then also um how far off the floor. 00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:01.039 So I always measure my work when I've done it, hung it um up on or in the studio. 00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.799 I measure it from the floor because you don't know how tall it a ceiling is. 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:12.960 So it's much better to know that you want that piece this far off from the floor and the next piece to be on the angle, this angle, and then that to be that far off. 00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:19.839 I I agree with you, but that brings the point that you've you're actually so prepared that you viewed the venue. 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:22.240 You're having just turned it out to the end of the venue. 00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:23.920 Oh yeah, no, you have to do you have to. 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:29.680 I think when you're there, you talk to the gallery owner on quick that they have, all that kind of stuff. 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:43.759 Uh and I think uh yes, definitely speak with the gallery before you don't go in, talk with them, need to um find out if you're gonna have somebody helping you install or whether you need to bring an army in with you. 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:46.720 Um, you know, uh have they got a ladder? 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:47.920 Do you need to bring your ladder? 00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:49.440 I just always bring my toolbox. 00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:51.599 If you bring your toolbox, just bring your toolbox. 00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:57.759 Because you do not want you do
not want to have to go out and do a bunnings trip or you know, a hardware trip or whatever. 00:28:58.000 --> 00:28:58.160 Yeah. 00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:14.880 I know, I know somebody just recently um who actually was about to put on an exhibition and there was some circumstances and the Galleriona just gave her the keys and said, It's about to you and Yeah, that the Galleriona couldn't be there. 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:20.000 And um she certainly had to find an army to help her to put it together. 00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:26.319 And I know you mentioned something about you had to go in and set all the stuff up at the top once, was that? 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:26.960 Yeah. 00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:32.960 No, I thought that I might have to, and um, so I did a a quick trip to the gallery. 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:38.799 I made an appointment with the curator, and I said, okay, it's all going to be suspended. 00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:50.799 This is, you know, I'm gonna use this X amount of space on the ceiling, and I took in what I thought we could I could hang the work from, and they just said, not your work, we want it straight from the ceiling. 00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:59.839 So that's when I had a floor map that was down on the floor, and also all the measurements from the ceiling, how far each dot was going to be. 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:13.440 But again, you have to be prepared that things are not always going to work out because certain spots couldn't be taken because there was going to be an electrical cord, you know, they they couldn't just put a drill up and put a hook up in the ceiling. 00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:21.519 So you have to be flexible enough to know that it's not always those will be perfect and you're gonna have to bend yourself slightly. 00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:22.559 So it's give and take. 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:23.359 Yes, of course. 00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:24.960 Make sure they've got power points. 00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:31.440 You can bring restriction cords and tape to cover and you've got to do all the definitely. 00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:33.440 And make sure there's no trip hazards. 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:34.880 You've painted walls as well. 00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:35.759 I've painted walls. 00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.160 Yeah, I think this is a great yes. 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:42.160 Yeah, that was a really that was a good um a good good one actually. 00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:47.680 There's uh my porcelain work which is from uni actually, and I originally put it on a on a paint. 00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:50.799 You know, I'd reflected on it and decided it wasn't quite right. 00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:55.920 So I just I just went in and painted the wall a different colour, really soft, beautiful blue. 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:58.960 It just works so nicely with the porcelain. 00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:01.680 And it also sort of defined the space of the work. 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:07.119 So it almost so nudged it out a bit and yeah, it gave it the breathing room. 00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:10.480 Um yeah, so that was that was good. 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:21.680 And and um most most galleries will allow you to do this just to return it to the original colour, and they'll usually have a big bucket of paint for you to do that with to bring you. 00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:25.200 It's easier than you think to change certain things to hum. 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.880 And um I've seen that you've had actually uh took out hanging things. 00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:33.039 I had to hang a big porcelain work and there was nowhere to hang it. 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.680 So I actually I won't well I didn't I didn't want to hang it on the wall, I wanted it suspended. 00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:41.119 So I had to bring in my own bean. 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.960 I've brought in my own little piece of wood fantastic to hang off. 00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:46.480 Yeah, yeah. 00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:49.200 It was a lot of effort, but it worked well. 00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:50.799 I want to look gorgeous. 00:31:51.039 --> 00:32:01.440 I have seen installations that had that's why I bought all this mesh in to say, well, okay, I can hang up from this, you know, this is the size, in some exhibitions, especially um group exhibitions. 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:06.480 Again, uh there's one specifically that I'm thinking of, and it was hanging from from mesh. 00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:11.759 And I guess that was because it had to be presented to the gallery already hung. 00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:18.319 But it does take away from not a beautiful beam, but some mesh um can can affect too much. 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:23.519 Well that's okay. 00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:25.279 Yeah, true, true. 00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:26.480 Okay, fair enough. 00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:29.680 Well my goodness, what a big lessons. 00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:31.680 Um huge lessons. 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:31.920 Yeah. 00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.960 What's your favourite lesson in the show? 00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:38.160 I'm gonna have to read because I can't remember. 00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:39.759 Not tell your mind then. 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:40.240 Okay. 00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:44.000 What keeps coming up for me is less is better. 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.640 Be more, but less is better. 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:56.480 And that whole thing of less visual noise, and so you're sort of trying to tell a story with an exhibition, I guess, and you have less visual noise. 00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:04.559 Donna's talks about space for people to actually absorb and and sit as well. 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:05.920 So what about you? 00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:07.839 Okay, scout, be prepared. 00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.480 That is the biggest thing. 00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.240 Boy Scout, be prepared, considering the viewer's journey. 00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:18.880 I think they're the two big things that I think that you do need to think about. 00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.920 I agree with yours, by
the way, and I would have chosen that secure. 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:23.359 I would be the first. 00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:26.559 Roseme, I know we still had guests here. 00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:31.119 We usually do this after guests are gone, but Roseme, what's been inspiring you lately? 00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:32.400 I've got no idea. 00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:33.440 No idea. 00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:48.880 Well, I'm off to the post office to pick up my piece of Gretrafts and I'll be my latest book, I'll be bringing them to your market next Sunday, so that'll be great to be roaming around. 00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.039 We'll be roaming around like the quarters. 00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:52.480 We aren't going to be roaming around. 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.039 We're going to do a market special and we're roaming around. 00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:56.319 That's such a good idea. 00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:58.000 What's inspiring you? 00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.759 I think that um I'm still working on my new sculptural pieces. 00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:08.239 And I'm inspired by the feedback I've got off Dana and Anna, which which has made me think a bit more. 00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:15.119 And even the statement today, less is more, and I'm looking at them going, Yes, how can I make that less but more? 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:27.599 So yeah, and also I think actually I'm inspired by the fact that we've done this in the gallery in in studio space, and it's such a beautiful space to do it, and then I feel so comfortable. 00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:29.519 I'd like to do more like this rosemary. 00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:30.000 Right. 00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:30.719 A lot more. 00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:33.360 So everybody, thank you, Donna. 00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:33.920 Thank you. 00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:38.400 And Port Melbourne for now. 00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:40.800 Port Melbourne or South Melbourne, we'll figure it out. 00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:41.840 South Melbourne. 00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:44.639 Okay, and thank you, listeners. 00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:45.920 Okay, bye for now. 00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:49.440 Thank you so much for listening to Shift Stirrers Podcast. 00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:56.639 If you enjoyed this episode, please hit that follow button so you can get notified whenever we we release new content. 00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:04.159 We'd love to hear feel from you and feel free to reach out to us at theshift stirrers at gmail.com. 00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:09.360 Or you can find our individual email addresses and websites in the show notes below. 00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:10.800 We love questions. 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:16.000 You can also connect to us on Instagram at ShiftStirrers. 00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:27.280 If you found value in today's conversation, we'd be incredible, incredibly grateful if you could leave us a review or a rating on your podcast platform. 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.760 It really helps others to discover the show. 00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:34.639 And if you know someone who will benefit from this episode, please share with them. 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.000 Until next time, keep stirring the shift. 00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:43.840 Just a quick disclaimer Michelle and Rosemary are not experts in any of these discussions today. 00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:49.360 We present this podcast in the interest of getting you curious to make changes. 00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:50.000 Thank you.
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