Volledige transcriptie van When Familiar Voices Become Scam Calls

all of a sudden it's like 60. 44 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:47,280 But this week is actually the first week of fall, technically. 45 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,680 So I guess that does make sense. 46 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,520 But yeah, we're here to talk about these scams 47 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,520 that are happening to a lot of people, 48 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,720 and I was inspired to do this episode. 49 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,080 And first of all, just a little history. 50 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,160 We have talked about this topic before on the podcast. 51 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,920 We've talked about deep fakes 52 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,680 when that was starting to be a thing, 53 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,000 and then we've talked about these voice cloning scams, 54 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,440 which I think was starting to happen maybe a year, 55 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,520 almost maybe two years ago. 56 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,520 But this is happening a lot more now 57 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,120 because, well, guess what? 58 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,680 AI is making these things a lot easier. 59 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,920 So cloning somebody's voice has gotten pretty trivial, 60 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:29,080 I would say, with the tooling that's available 61 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,000 and the technology has really increased. 62 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,920 I would say not just voice cloning, 63 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:37,720 but video cloning somebody through video or pictures. 64 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,960 And there are all kinds of issues happening 65 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:42,440 with this right now. 66 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,320 I saw a story on the local news 67 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,360 about some high school kid was nudifying girls 68 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,240 in his class, and he was using an AI tool for that, 69 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,320 and there's all kinds of crazy things happening, 70 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,520 and a lot of this is not good. 71 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,600 They're not good things at all. 72 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,720 Yeah, it is disappointing. 73 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,160 A lot of people are, well, it's not that bad yet, 74 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:06,640 and it's not really thinking, 75 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:10,080 and it's not, the AI is not sentient, 76 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:11,280 it's not super human yet, 77 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,680 but it doesn't really have to be damaging. 78 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,800 And that's one of the things we want to talk about. 79 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:17,800 Yeah, exactly. 80 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,160 So this LinkedIn post was super interesting 81 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:22,960 because the scam that happened, 82 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,600 I don't know it was to him or somebody he knew, 83 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,680 but somebody called sounding like this person's wife, 84 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,560 like exactly like his wife, 85 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,440 and his wife was asking for a credit card number 86 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,200 so they could pay for gas because they were out of gas. 87 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:40,360 Now, what's funny about this 88 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,000 is the gentleman's wife was sitting right next to him 89 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,440 and they have a Tesla, which doesn't require a gas, 90 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,940 and how are you going to use a credit card number 91 00:03:50,940 --> 00:03:53,680 without a physical card at a gas station is beyond me. 92 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,520 So a lot of red flags there, 93 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:01,200 but the person was kind of taken back by how realistic. 94 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,160 And I would say don't be fooled. 95 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:08,160 Yeah, don't be fooled by this kind of amateur looking 96 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,120 kind of attack because of those little anomalies, right? 97 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,160 It's going to get better in terms of its capability 98 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,360 or worse in terms of its impact 99 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,320 and its ability to convince people. 100 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,640 So I think we have to be on guard 101 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,240 and telling people to be on guard for it as soon as possible, 102 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,560 even if this stuff sounds wacky, 103 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,660 and how stupid is that that it's asking 104 00:04:30,660 --> 00:04:31,680 for a credit card number. 105 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,120 Next week it won't be, you know. 106 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,360 Yeah, well, it's kind of going back to the same trope 107 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,360 that we've always been talking about 108 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,000 is all of these social engineering scams, 109 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,440 they always start with a pretext of urgency 110 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,160 and it's an emergency. 111 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,900 And even it is someone, 112 00:04:50,900 --> 00:04:52,920 it sounds like somebody you know that you trust, 113 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,200 like your kid or your wife or significant other 114 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:56,720 or whatever, right? 115 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,600 It should give you some pause 116 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,880 because it's probably going to be out of character for them. 117 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,720 And even in an emergency situation, 118 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,920 which you kind of have to go back to thinking about, 119 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:09,960 well, how did my family handle 120 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,000 other emergency situations in the past? 121 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,000 And even talking with your family about, 122 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,760 well, what do we do if there is a call like this? 123 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,400 And one of the pieces of advice that we

often hear 124 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,440 is having some type of secret code or a phrase 125 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,260 or something that everybody in the family 126 00:05:28,260 --> 00:05:31,560 can share with each other in an emergency situation 127 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,960 to make sure that, yes, this is in fact, 128 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,520 my kid, my wife, whoever that I'm talking to on the phone. 129 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,240 Right, so while we're on that topic, 130 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,520 this is something I've known 131 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:44,960 and I recommend to people as well, 132 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,360 but I think it's a good idea to maybe walk through 133 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:49,880 a hypothetical example. 134 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,560 And I don't know if Tom, have you seen situations 135 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,320 where this kind of a secret phrase has been used? 136 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,480 What would that look like to somebody in a family? 137 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,120 I don't know anybody personally that this has happened to, 138 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,920 but I have read and I have heard many, many stories 139 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,880 of this actually happening. 140 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,880 And these calls are often from what I've read 141 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,880 is that they're very automated. 142 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,880 Like this isn't a human obviously on the other end. 143 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,160 I guess it could be because there are voice cloning 144 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:22,920 technologies that can be used, 145 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,080 but often these things are prerecorded. 146 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,400 They're built in with, you know, pauses 147 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,660 and they wait for a response 148 00:06:30,660 --> 00:06:33,240 and then the other piece of the recording kicks in 149 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:34,120 and things like that. 150 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,920 But I think the idea around the family's safe phrase 151 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:42,240 or code word is just something that is discussed 152 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:43,640 with your family previously, 153 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,600 you know, in a previous conversation about, 154 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,920 hey, what do we do if there is a scam like this 155 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,040 and you call me or my kid calls me and says, 156 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,500 hey, I'm in a car accident, I need help. 157 00:06:54,500 --> 00:06:56,840 It's as simple as, hey, give me the code word 158 00:06:56,840 --> 00:06:59,360 or the code name, right? 159 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,520 If it sounds suspicious. 160 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,520 Right, I think you want to tell the person 161 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,080 why you're asking if it is a real call. 162 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:09,440 You're gonna say, hey, do you remember 163 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,640

we talked about having, you know, 164 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,520 the chance that somebody might be trying 165 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,360 to impersonate one of us and I just want to make sure 166 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,000 it's not you being impersonated and so yeah, 167 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,120 then you could say, do you remember the phrase? 168 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,880 Now they'll say, oh, you know what, I forgot. 169 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:25,720 What do you do that? 170 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:26,800 Yeah, right. 171 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,160 Personally, I feel like I would know right away, right? 172 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,760 Because I know if my kid's gonna call me 173 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,080 in a panic situation, for example, 174 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:39,640 we use Life360 to track our kids, right? 175 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,360 And it's, of course, they know that we're doing this, right? 176 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:44,920 It's not like they don't know, 177 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,600 but I've been in situations where my kid 178 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,040 needs assistance somewhere, right? 179 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,720 For whatever reason and I can look it up on Life360 180 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,240 and I can see that they're in the location 181 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:54,920 they said they were gonna be at, right? 182 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,000 And they're calling me from that location and, right? 183 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,160 There's things that you can do to verify, 184 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,680 but I think the code word is definitely helpful 185 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,320 for situations that you're not sure, right? 186 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,160 Like the, hey, I just got put in prison, dad. 187 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:11,120 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 188 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,960 I need bail money and you look up on Life360 189 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:16,880 and they're at their friend's house 190 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,160 a couple doors down, right? 191 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,880 Like there's things that you can do, right? 192 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,040 To kind of verify location. 193 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,680 So the code word doesn't necessarily have 194 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:25,640 to be one of those things, 195 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,040 but I think it's more about being aware 196 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,560 that this is happening and it could happen to anybody. 197 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:35,640 And how do you prepare yourself and your family for this? 198 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,000 And I think it's not always going to be 199 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,560 just an emergency situation. 200 00:08:39,560 --> 00:08:42,280 One of the things I've learned over the last decade 201 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,440 or two teaching people about social engineering attacks 202 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,560 is attackers can leverage any emotion 203 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:51,400 that they know you're gonna respond to. 204 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:52,920 And so if they do a little bit 205 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,920 of open source intelligence on you, 206 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,920 like at your Facebook page or your LinkedIn profile 207 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,800 or other things that may be published about you, 208 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:03,320 they might be able to guess things 209 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,400 that would be emotional triggers for you. 210 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:08,720 And if they can do that, 211 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,280 they can create a pretext or a story around it 212 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,880 and impersonate somebody and then talk to you 213 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,040 about maybe some opportunity that is just too good to, 214 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,480 you know, if you're addicted at gambling 215 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,360 or other kinds of, you know, 216 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,080 things that you just love to do and you can't resist 217 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:26,320 and they know that, you know, 218 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:27,440 they're gonna impersonate somebody 219 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,480 who's got a really compelling story around that 220 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,560 to get you to act in whatever way. 221 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:36,440 Maybe it's to help them pay for something or whatever. 222 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:37,280 So I'm just saying, 223 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,560 it's not always going to be an emergency or a problem. 224 00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:42,760 The other advice we tell you too 225 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,560 is you can call that person back 226 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:47,520 on their known number, right? 227 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,200 So even if that call is spoofed 228 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,960 and it looks like it's coming from a family member 229 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,080 or a trusted person, it's okay to like say, 230 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,560 hey, can I call you back on your number? 231 00:09:58,560 --> 00:09:59,840 And then you actually call them 232 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:01,320 and you'll probably find out very quickly 233 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:02,440 if it's a scam or not. 234 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,880 So that's another trick that you can do. 235 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,000 If you don't have that code word, right, 236 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,440 with your family, you can just call them back 237 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:10,400 at their real number. 238 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,360 This is sort of a situation where as security nerds, 239 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:14,800 right, we would say, 240 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,520 this is a great example of a situation 241 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,080 where you could use a tabletop exercise 242 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:20,440 with your family. 243 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,400 So let's pretend, let's pretend I get a call saying, 244 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,800

from my wife, apparently who's trying 245 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,800 to access a bank machine or something 246 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,680 and they're having trouble 247 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:33,760 and they need something really quickly or whatever. 248 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,240 How do you know what that's gonna look like? 249 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:37,960 So you have to sort of walk through some scenarios 250 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,360 with the people that you're expecting 251 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,920 to potentially have this happen to. 252 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,440 Yeah, and what I find interesting too, 253 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,800 if I did a little bit of research to kind of see, 254 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,160 what are the typical voice cloning scams 255 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,360 that are out there that have been used in the past 256 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,200 and not surprisingly, 257 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,240 but they all have to do with money 258 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,600 in some way, shape, or form of. 259 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,920 Yeah, there's not much other reason for an attacker to do it 260 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,480 unless they're really trying to kidnap you or something. 261 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,080 Right, right, right. 262 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,360 But there's usually cryptocurrency involved, 263 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:16,800 gift cards, some type of bank deposits, 264 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,840 or we've seen ones where they want you to change an account, 265 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:27,240 like go to this link or call me back on this number 266 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,600 and I need to verify some information about you 267 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,520 because of a situation, right? 268 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:34,960 Yeah, the first couple of times it happens, 269 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:36,200 it's gonna feel really weird, 270 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,000 but I think we'll all get used 271 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,200 to having those kinds of calls at some point. 272 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,320 Yeah, I mean, it's not ending anytime soon 273 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,840 and I think the phone companies are trying 274 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,560 to do the best they can with weeding out 275 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:50,960 and preventing a lot of these calls from happening, 276 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,120 but my phone is still like ringing off the hook 277 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,280 with numbers and scams and things. 278 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,520 I pretty much send everything to voicemail these days. 279 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,120 I have unfortunately said, 280 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,440 oh, that's an interesting number 281 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,040 and I end up picking it up 282 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,960 and then you hear that like long pause of- 283 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:10,440 Long pause, yeah, the auto dialing. 284 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,240 And they're like, oh, no, all right. 285 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:14,280 That's true. 286 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,680 Almost every time I get a call if I answer it 287 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:17,800 and I don't know who it's from 288 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,840 and you hear that, give it a second and a half, 289 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,040 two seconds, hang up. 290 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,080 If they really wanna talk to you, they'll call back. 291 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:25,120 But yeah. 292 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,080 Yeah, exactly. 293 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,160 So the message for everybody is, 294 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,480 be aware that this technology has gotten a lot better. 295 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,860 AI voice cloning is trivial to do these days. 296 00:12:35,860 --> 00:12:38,840 There's tons of tools out there that do this 297 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,240 and it's just getting a little bit more dangerous, 298 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,440 I guess, from that perspective. 299 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,760 So it's good just to be prepared, 300 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,680 have a conversation with your family 301 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:51,400 to talk about these types of scams that are happening, 302 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:52,560 create that code word, 303 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:55,200 make sure that you're calling back numbers 304 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,600 that sound like somebody's trying 305 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,920 to impersonate a family member or a friend. 306 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,640 That's always good advice, right? 307 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:01,480 Yep, yep. 308 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,520 And I'm not an American, 309 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,480 but I have a sense there could be an opportunity 310 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:07,700 coming up in the next few weeks to a month 311 00:13:07,700 --> 00:13:09,640 where you might be influenced 312 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,200 by other kinds of imitations that you've seen, 313 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,200 whether it's online or in an email or whatever, right? 314 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,240 People trying to influence how you might vote. 315 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,080 Yeah, there's a lot of that happening 316 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,400 with the midterms is what you were looking to say. 317 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,000 I think that's what I'm trying to say. 318 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,960 Yeah, it's amazing to me the amount 319 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,480 of misinformation and disinformation 320 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,920 that I've already seen on TV commercials 321 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,400 and flyers in the mail about both sides. 322 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,480 All candidates, it's crazy. 323 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,200 And actually impersonating candidates, right? 324 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,840 And saying things that they would never say. 325 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,800 That's right, that's right. 326 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,720 It's a big, big problem 327 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,960 and it's really only getting worse. 328 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,560 And I think it's gonna be harder and harder to detect 329 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,280 if someone was deep faked 330 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,800 or there's a voice cloning situation going on. 331 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,280 And that's why we all have to be much more aware 332 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:07,560 of these situations. 333 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:10,520 All right, well, I think that's all we have time 334 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,000 for today, Scott. 335 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,040 But again, I wanted to thank everyone for listening to the show. 336 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,520 Thank you for subscribing to our YouTube channel. 337 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,200 And until next time, stay safe, stay secure and stay private. 338 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:23,960 Thank you for listening or watching. 339 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,720 If you liked this episode, hit subscribe, 340 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,600 share it with your friends and colleagues 341 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,880 or jump into our community at sharedsecurity.net 342 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,640 slash supporter to keep the conversation going. 343 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:36,800 Thanks again and we'll see you next week 344 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,320 for another episode of Shared Security.