TRANSCRIPTIE 🔗
Kevin Whitsell: Just a few days before recording this episode, my leadership career came to a sudden halt. Unintentional mistake, but still was something I had to take extreme ownership of. And I found myself sitting in my office and looking at our fleet of trucks, and I was forced to confront the exact loss of identity that we talk about on this show every week. But on the other side of that desk There sat a leader, in my case and in many others, that was carrying a weight just as heavy. The agonizing reality of having to sign off on the departure of a brother or a sister on the job who may be quietly drowning in personal chaos. Tonight's episode is one that is for the books. It probably go down in my favorites list for sure. Jason Yerkovich steps into the fire with me on this episode. And we don't just stay surface level, we don't just talk about the obvious We go deep into some very hidden corners of this first responder life that our public safety culture has tried to sweep under the rug for years. We talk about the dark rooms, we talk about the bottles of whiskey after our divorces, we talk about the inherited patterns of anger, and the lie of the stoic tough guy armor. And why bugles on the collar mean nothing if you don't care about what happens to your crew after they go home. From mirror affirmations to extreme ownerships to fatherhood to servant leadership and rewriting the blueprints we pass down to our kids. This is a very unfiltered conversation on human survival, moral courage, and quiet redemption. This is a silent war within. With battalion chief Jason Yerkovic.
Kevin Whitsell+: Well Jason, how are you
Jason Yerkovich: I
Kevin Whitsell+: doing?
Jason Yerkovich: I'm doing great. Thank you very much. It's a
Kevin Whitsell+: So don't
Jason Yerkovich: it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
Kevin Whitsell+: Yeah, I'm super excited to have you. I've been watching your s I actually discovered you a few months ago and it was like this guy's got it figured out and started just just binge watching. it was almost like a Netflix episode. So I love everything you're doing, dude. So you're you're really knocking it out of the park and I'm appreciative for everything you're doing.
Jason Yerkovich: That that's humbling. especially the part where you say I have it figured out 'cause
Kevin Whitsell+: Ha.
Jason Yerkovich: I don't, you know, and that's the beauty of it.
Kevin Whitsell+: Yeah, yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: I think it's these conversations that we have, you know, especially with people in the field that need to be vocalized and other people like you found my my feed and You found something that you related to. And that's that's truly the intent and the point of what I'm trying to do is find leadership not only within the four walls of my fire service, but that there's people out there, you know, and being on this show today
Kevin Whitsell+: Absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: i is a true blessing because the reality is it's September, it's Suicide Awareness Month.
Kevin Whitsell+: It is.
Jason Yerkovich: And we'll probably get into that, but man, for
Kevin Whitsell+: I'm sure, yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: first responders, let's let's be honest. If any of us are accepting of those numbers, yikes.
Kevin Whitsell+: Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to lead with something and just I don't know if you call this house cleaning or what it is, but you guys saw a video from me a few days ago, last Friday, I think it was. I was fired for my leadership position because of an inadvertent HIPAA violation. not something I did with ill intent. had a person that was missing for twenty-four hours, nobody could find them. so I logged into the our medical record and lo and behold, when you look at somebody's occurrences, that is actively logged into somebody's chart. We just got a new system last year. I was unaware that that that was considered logging into somebody's chart. So unfortunately, I lost my position. And if you put an associate right in front of me that had done the same thing, the outcome is the same. So I had to accept that and realize that that's Exactly what I would have done too. so when I was fired, it felt like for just a second and and really a few days there over the weekend I had time to process and go through all the the grieving emotions, if you will. But Jason, you've had to navigate this nightmare from the other side of the desk. You've actually had to fire someone.
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah.
Kevin Whitsell+: a close member from what you told me. So what's the
Jason Yerkovich: Oof.
Kevin Whitsell+: emotional weight you carried through that and how does it feel to have to deliver that? that news to somebody, knowing the weight that that carries.
Jason Yerkovich: Wow. I mean the pardon me, the weight is it's immense. and I say that that weight is immense if you care about your people. Right? If
Kevin Whitsell+: Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: you don't care about your people, that's that's not gonna be something that that's gonna
Kevin Whitsell+: That's right.
Jason Yerkovich: bother you or keep you up at night or cry about, you know. it's in my book, Carrying the Fire. It's one of my favorite chapters. It's about one of my closest friends who was a firefighter for me. And he he was going through life like we all have. I got to the point in my career and in this passion for wanting to help people because of the same things he was going through. You know, divorce, it's it's dark, it's tough.
Kevin Whitsell+: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: And you throw on personal. Personal life issues with what we deal with in our career, and it is just exacerbated to levels that are just very intense. So watching Chris go through it, I think the hardest part for me the day that I had to fill out his resignation was I tried, but what could I have done more? What could I have done to help this young man? not have to do this, you know.
Kevin Whitsell+: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: I was given the an unfortunate responsibility of
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helping choose that fate and I didn't want to do it. But at the end of the day I understood that For for Chris to get where he needed to be, then this might have been the option that had to be taken. And it was man, it was hard. Closed door, hugs, tears. but the reason it's one of my favorite chapters in the book is because he does find redemption. But the only way he finds redemption is the beauty of battling his own silent war within. And and I love when I started seeing your stuff and just the name alone hit me pretty hard because man, there's so many people that are dealing with their own silent wars that they don't have to do alone. not only do alone, they can approach these things better, you know. my
Kevin Whitsell+: yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: platform with the podcast show Built Not Inherited stems from my belief system in my book that I wrote that hey, we're inherited patterns and ways that we function and live life that we learn when we're children. And not only children throughout our lives with all the traumas or excuse me, doesn't necessarily have to be traumas, but with our experiences that shape the way we're gonna respond to something. And unfortunately for me, that was really in a negative way. It was kind of the traditional way we see in in our fields, temperamental. I
Kevin Whitsell+: Mm.
Jason Yerkovich: pop off real quick on anything.
Kevin Whitsell+: Same.
Jason Yerkovich: And but going back to that with Chris, it my friend, it was tough. And I I'm sorry to hear your news. I hope you're okay. And yeah, good.
Kevin Whitsell+: I am. I I am so I talk about this pretty explicitly all the time on
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell+: our on our channel.
Kevin Whitsell: I'm I'm a man of of pretty deep Christian faith. So I have really hinged on like God has been the author of my story and ordered my steps for many years and he's not gonna stop now. and I've actually got a couple interviews tomorrow, for senior VP positions and leadership positions, 'cause that's healthcare leadership is what I kind of migrated into after the paramedic career kind of came to an end for My wife and I had a child and I wanted something that was a little more stable and went into dispatch.
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: And then when I once I went into dispatch, it was like supervisor, manager. so I just have climbed the ladder since then and have really enjoyed the leadership part of it. And think that's why I love your stuff so much, is because it's a lot of leader focused stuff. it's a lot of stuff that I can certainly relate to. And I think one of the things that and and your books on my reading list. I'm super behind. I've got a stack like that. I keep interviewing authors. I tell Angel all the time. I said, You gotta quit putting people on the schedule that have have written books because I can't keep up. I usually like to read them before I talk to you guys. and she just laughs at me, but I'm so behind. I think I think
Jason Yerkovich: That's all good, my friend. That's life.
Kevin Whitsell: yeah, but I think when I came into leadership, what I had so much difficulty with and and have grown out of it over having to do it so often is I hated conflict. I did not want to have the uncomfortable conversations. And now I tell all my junior leaders that that hey, or I told all my junior junior leaders, hey, part of learning leadership is becoming comfortable with the uncomfortable. And so
Jason Yerkovich: Yep. Absolutely.
Kevin Whitsell: how do you sit across from somebody that you care about, like Chris, because you've mentioned this story. So
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: You sit across from Chris, how do you not come off as cold and bureaucratic and the company man, the one everybody hates? You know the leader. You've probably worked for before. I certainly have.
Jason Yerkovich: yeah, yeah, absolutely. I I think for me personally and my my we'll say my life story here. high school, I was a peer mediator. they requested me to do it. I I mention all this stuff in my book about my how I became to be myself and the leader that I am. And I am someone who grew up with faith, still do. I was an artist along with a football player. So being in those classes, being around those kids really opened my eyes to empathy, right? Because that that leadership quality that you're talking about, that that little cold, little tough, I mean, that was my football world. I played linebacker, I played in high school, I played a little bit in college. and When I think when if I want to go into the silent war within and I think about that with my leadership, when I was younger, I dealt with whatever issues I was in my own home. Nothing, nothing tragic or crazy, but they were my own traumatic experiences. So as a leader, and the the the personal things that I was dealing with internally were were a lot. So that silent war came out on the football field. That's where my leadership really developed. but on that football field, I mean it's uncomfortable saying this out loud. My goal on that field. This is hard to say. Was to kill someone. Did I really want that? No. But as a young boy, as a as a teenager, I had emotions internally that I didn't know how to deal with. So I thought on the football field where I was able to get these emotions out legally, that that hard, cold, tough thing was part of being a man. And
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: having that leadership. But it also as an artist, I had this other side to me and I had this strong faith. I started the fellowship of one of the or one of the people who helped start the fellowship of Christian athletes at my high school. And faith helped me. Faith helped calm me, right?
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: but I don't think any of my experiences with leadership or my anger or my temperament Or being that cold person, that none of that can change unless you find that ability to become aware. Becoming aware is a huge
thing. And that's what's changed my ability to lead in the fire service. the company man, stuff like that. That's not me. I've always felt in my heart of hearts that I I played football at a high level. I loved it. It was great. am I a tough guy? No, I'm not a tough guy. That that's not being a tough guy. Being
Kevin Whitsell: Right.
Jason Yerkovich: a tough guy is literally to me what I did on the football field and my coaches, that's what they love the most, is I wanted to pick people up. Picking people up. That is the greatest. I think that's the greatest strength. I think that's what makes people tough. so I don't fall in, Kevin. I don't, I don't fall into that, that whole old school hoorah, I'm a tough guy. I'm gonna make you. feel like you're isolated because I'm uncomfortable with your feelings. That's not me, man. I I'm come in my office, that door's open. I have an open door policy, right?
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: And if people if you have an open door policy, but you're not really listening to just shut the door. Shut the door. It's not an open door policy. You know? So
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah, it's not it's pointless at that yeah. Mm y you're not achieving anything.
Jason Yerkovich: no. I think the hardest thing When you have these experiences at work, especially in our fields and the fire service, when you have those people in, you have to understand that your responsibilities for me, whether it's the maintenance team, whether it's quartermaster, whether it's training officer, those things are on my plate. But those things pale in comparison to the health and the well being of my members. That's number one. We're gonna train, don't get me wrong. We're gonna train, we're gonna
Kevin Whitsell: yeah. Absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: we're gonna do those things. But if my priority isn't, I I am a fan of everyone goes home. But what happens when they go home? Right? What happens to their families? How
Kevin Whitsell: That's right.
Jason Yerkovich: are they dealing inside? And and to have a true open door policy. And to truly care about your members, you have to have the ability to want to listen. That can't be something that annoys you that somebody has issues and they have problems. That can't annoy you. Because then you're truly not there for their best intent. And as a leader, I think all of our leaders should. Do we miss that mark a lot? boy, do we? You know.
Kevin Whitsell: Mm, all the time. All the time.
Jason Yerkovich: That rank, that that that bugle, the the rank on the collar, that shouldn't be the priority at all.
Kevin Whitsell: we get so caught up in it. And the title and the little name tag on the desk, like that we just love that. And I I can remember first year of well, first probably six months I would say of leadership and not ever having a real title other than paramedic.
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: I was like, Hey, I'm somebody. I even got so much so that I got scammed. probably the first six months I was in because somebody, I guess, looked up my name and saw where I worked and then looked up the CEO's name and text me pretending to be the CEO. Of course I didn't have the CEO's number. And they said, Hey, I need you to go to the Apple store. Man, I walked out of that transfer center with my chest this big around and
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: I'm like, I have my golden ticket now. You guys can't tell me anything. I gotta go run an errand for the boss, you know, the big boss. And got about halfway there and started to think, what if this is a scam? My CEO is from Clarksdale, Mississippi. This is a 624 number that is not anywhere close to Clarksdale, Mississippi. so figured it out before I got to the Apple store and played along for a minute just to see what he's gonna have me do. He was gonna make me buy some Apple gift cards on my credit card and the company would reimburse me. I would have stopped there because I know that's not how corporate works.
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: But Yeah, you just couldn't tell me anything because I'd gotten so wrapped up in that identity of, hey, I'm a leader. And I tell people now that the only thing that makes us leaders is that somebody is willing to follow us. And if if
Jason Yerkovich: Absolutely.
Kevin Whitsell: nobody's willing to follow you, it doesn't matter what the nameplate says, it's useless. You have to have people that that believe in you and believe in your strengths and your characteristics enough and believe that you care about them or they're not gonna follow you anymore.
Jason Yerkovich: Nope.
Kevin Whitsell: And when you start caring about people like you're talking about, that makes people there's this silly video that I've I've talked about a few times. It's it's gotta be back from the seventies, but man in leader training at the hospital I worked at, they played these this thing relentlessly and there's this one guy that gets up just starts dancing and he looks like a fool.
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: But then somebody else does it and somebody else does it. And eventually the whole crowd's dancing.
Jason Yerkovich: Yep. Yep.
Kevin Whitsell: And the point is be the guy who is willing to dance first. You know. Yeah. And it's it's so silly.
Jason Yerkovich: I literally just saw that video three days ago.
Kevin Whitsell: It's so silly. They use it all the time. But it's
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: but I've kind of taken that into my mind and and kind of stored it somewhere and said, Yeah, I want to be the guy that people want to dance with. I
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: want to be the guy that people want to follow. And and yeah,
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah. And that's letting the guard down,
Kevin Whitsell: absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: the the the the leaders that are are the the the tough, cold, hard ones, we could say it. It it's it's pretty well known. That's it's it it's insecurity. they're
Kevin Whitsell: Absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: projecting on you and that's just something we can't do. Dance. I love it. Get up and dance like
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: nobody's watching and and The way people will respond is just, it's amazing. my peop my people know they I I tell them I love them, because I do. I genuinely do.
Kevin Whitsell: absolutely. Absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: this position, these positions, anything, like my appointed position as battalion chief, like, man, if I don't take that seriously, if I do not think of my members is more than just pawns in our fire department, then I'm I'm failing miserably. there are people, there are people who I want to just excel, succeed, surpass me. Do what you got to do, listen, focus, be empathetic, be a great paramedic, be a great firefighter, and you will be a leader. And then we'll have leaders all around. And when
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: we have that, then the team is just a force,
Kevin Whitsell: That's right. That's right.
Jason Yerkovich: It but it's these fields. It it the the competition to get promoted or
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: appointed, that drives a wedge a lot of times.
Kevin Whitsell: They can, yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: but if you can gosh, and I know some people might watch and say, Well, it's easier to say when you're already in that position. But I could truly say, Kevin, that even coming up through the ranks, I wanted the best for everybody. You beat me in a test. Good. Awesome. How
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: can if you're promoted before me, how can we make you better for the department? Because
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: it at the end of the day, our public and our our the people we serve, they're gonna benefit from us giving giving a crap about each other. You know?
Kevin Whitsell: absolutely. Absolutely. How do you as a leader go from a difficult conversation back amongst what at one point, if you if you're like me and come up through the ranks over 10 years and these people used to be your peers? I mean, how do you walk out there and they know you just canned somebody or you just had a difficult conversation? Or the worst part for me is just getting them in the office. 'Cause I gotta walk into a room full of people and go, hey man, I need to talk to you in here. And everybody, ooh, There's
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: just that, you know, there's just that inherent thing that getting called into the boss's office is a bad thing.
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: So how do you manage walking back onto for you the bay floor or for me the hospital floor and and and feel like everybody knows I did something bad?
Jason Yerkovich: I think for me it's been a lot of repetition and action where they know that if I'm calling you in the office or if anybody else knows that it's gonna be a conversation. I'm not I'm not going after heads. I mean, unless it's egregious and it's something beyond,
you know.
Kevin Whitsell: Sure, sure. Yeah, I've had those too.
Jason Yerkovich: yeah. But if if I'm calling you in the office and there's issues and trust me, I I I Sometimes I feel like I'm in a lifetime movie with everything that's so stereotypical of of the
Kevin Whitsell: What?
Jason Yerkovich: issues and stuff and all the training that we have. And I'm like, my gosh, this
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: is really happening to me. but that's also the wrong way to look at it. It's really happening to me. No, it's happening to someone else. So let's figure out how I can have them come in the office, sit down. I've learned that you close the door, then you might get some it might be a little intense in the room. so sometimes I'll keep the door open. and I hate in this field the do you want representation? Do you want your union representation in here? You
Kevin Whitsell: yeah. yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: know, because it just implies something negative. And I know that there's that line I have to walk that I have to offer that.
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: You know? And I think the farther along I've come in my career. I think my members know that they're safe to talk in that room. they know that if I'm coming at them per se and something that they're not doing right or correct, that I'm truly wanting them to get better. That this is not I'm trying to write you up or have a oral written or a verbal or whatever. I'm not trying to do that. We're trying to figure out. How you can be better at what we need you at. I just had this past week, man. It was a rough, rough work week for me because of internal drama. And it was tough,
Kevin Whitsell: yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: you know, and I felt like I was in between. So we had this beautiful September 11th, 9-11 stairclimb event. and it was There was some drama behind it. That's all I'll say about that. But in the end, after the event, to my members on my shift, I'm like, wait a minute. I expect them to talk to me. And I need to talk to them right now. So I opened up and it was tough. It was after the climb. you're exhausted, you're tired. And I opened up. And by opening up, I actually got to hear things from my members that I had no idea was going on.
Kevin Whitsell: Mm.
Jason Yerkovich: So then they give me the insight, and I realized that some of the drama, some of the war that I was creating within wasn't really reality.
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah. Yeah. I've experienced that.
Jason Yerkovich: that's humbling and it's even better to The biggest thing that I I try to preach is that awareness, ownership, and action. If you can do those three things, then the impact you're gonna have on people is huge because in that moment I had to own that I started assuming things. And that yeah, it was embarrassing for a split second. But when they looked at me and they're like, Chief. That's not what it was. It's okay. And it's okay that you feel like this. I'm like, all right. Now it's reciprocal, you know?
And and I welcome that. I I don't I'm not someone when I played football in my leadership roles in life and stuff, I'm not someone who likes to look down. I don't want to look down. We're we're peers. I know we have a a structure in the fire service.
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: and I respect it. But at the end of the day, we're we're all the same. We're all in this together. So let's make it better for everybody,
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think what you're describing is is moral courage. It's you breaking down those boundaries and allowing people to be free to express themselves, but also, like you said, knowing that, hey, Chief will do the same thing to us. If Chief's got
Jason Yerkovich: Yes.
Kevin Whitsell: a problem, he's gonna come come directly at it. And I love that approach. But many times, and I think this is man, this is more beneficial for me than right now because Some of the things that you've said are mistakes that I've made. And, you know, even even some of your story that you've shared that I resonate with. I was a linebacker many moons ago. and because of
Jason Yerkovich: It's a special club, bud.
Kevin Whitsell: yeah. And because of my temper and because of that that overwhelming anger of dealing with some of my childhood traumas and the negativity that I had in my life, I quit junior year because I missed a tackle. It was in the North Half State Championship game, the one before the big one, and
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: got called out about it and would not I just didn't want to take responsibility for missing that tackle. And the guy got the touchdown and we lost because of my missed tackle. I was the last one he had to get by. Everybody else was way downfield.
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah, yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: And and that anger that you talk about has kind of followed me a little bit until I figured out how through And I did the FCA thing, all the things you said, very similar stories.
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: and and through a lot of a lot of faith and a lot of training myself and a lot of making many, many mistakes, I learned like, hey, this is not the way you want to go. But I'm I'm very curious and I'm I'm gonna swerve off like I told you we would, but I want to know how you got to this chief position. So, like for me, when I think about my journey to leadership management, whatever you want to call it. it it was very like I'm not gonna say dropped in my lap because I did go to school, I did work for it, I did do all those things, but it was very much unexpected when it finally came. I guess I was not pursuing it as as like this is gonna be what I want to do as a career.
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: so how did you get to the chief position? I mean, that's an appointed position where you are, right?
Jason Yerkovich: Yes, yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: So how did you get to chief? And how how did your professional career go before that?
Jason Yerkovich: I was I was
a paramedic firefighter, which I loved. I thought I was
Kevin Whitsell: Same.
Jason Yerkovich: I struggle. Yeah, I struggle with people who try to rush through that part of the career so they could be a back step or stuff like that. Because I just really truly think that it in the essence of public servants, being able to help people go every day, because we're on that on that box. You're helping every day. Sure, you have the mundane calls and you have the the regulars and stuff like that, but that's not for us to judge, you know? So I went through that part of my career, loved it. and then I tested for the lieutenant's exam. And at that point, I have a guy in my fire department, Joe Malley. I goof around, my wife and I, we talk about it. His wife says the same. We're yin to our yang. We help each other very much, and our shortcomings is the other person's strength. So it it's a constant circle of helping each other throughout our careers. And We went to the fire academy together and we I got to the lieutenant's exam months before that. And it was around that, those years in the service where you're a little disgruntled.
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: And I mean, we all know it. And you could tell a new guy, Yeah,
Kevin Whitsell: You mean other people have those too?
Jason Yerkovich: you could tell a new guy three years and seven years, watch. And they'll be like, Yeah, okay. And then three years while they're on the job, I'm like, Hey, little disgruntled, bud, and it's okay. It's okay. So I was probably seventh, eighth year. Little disgruntled and I didn't want to take the test. I was having a pity party, frustrated. not yet at that point in my life understanding my own patterns and my inherited patterns. And so I wasn't taking ownership of those yet. But luckily I had Joe there and Joe was like, All right, bud, here's the deal. We need you. We need you to take this test. there's a lot of guys here. We believe in you. And it would be a beneficial if you take this test for the department's sake. And I was like, man, I'm not gonna argue that because it's about the team. This isn't about me. so sure, I'll take the test. Then I took the test. I did I did decent, ended up decent enough to get promoted off that list. it was I mean, and anybody out there in this field and any of these fields with these kinds of ranking and testing, understand that sometimes it's timing in your department's structure. In mine, we hired or we promoted four or five off of one list. So there was retirement, attrition, and my timing was there, you know, and I like to clarify that to people. I'm I'm a normal person. I got lucky with the timing wise for that purpose. so I become lieutenant, love lieutenant. Lieutenant's fun. You know, you get to go inside, you get to be with everybody. still responding to all the ambulance calls with the guys. loved it. Amazing. Then battalion chief starts those talks start coming because my battalion chief was retiring. And I'm in
the workout room in the basement again. No, I'm not gonna do that. No, no, no, I'm not
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: gonna do it. Joe Malley's down there. Hey, there he is. Years later, Joe's there. Jay, do I gotta give you the same speech? And I'm like, man, dude, but Lieutenant's so fun. I wanna I mean, the administrational part, you guys,
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: I'm not really wanting to do that that much. Not yet, at least. But at that point in my life, I had confronted myself. I had gone through divorce. that was the time in my life where I started to become aware and challenge myself because I had to take ownership. I was listening to Jocko and and Goggins and stuff like that, and ownership was huge. So I realized I'm like, you know what? I'm I'm I'm at this point in my life. Because of my decisions. This isn't anybody else. This is Jay. This is my life. So at that point, after Joe had given me the speech again. I was like, all right, here's the reality. It's if you guys and the members believe in me and you want me to do that, then I'll go for it. I'll do it. and then I got promoted or I got appointed by the mayor in the village. And after becoming a battalion chief, that was a struggle. That was some struggle bus. I had written a letter to my members the day I got appointed, had the little ceremony and everything. And that letter said to them, I want you guys to know I, in my heart of hearts, this is a very hard decision for me. most people celebrate this stuff. A lot of people who want that that title, this is something
Kevin Whitsell: Sure.
Jason Yerkovich: they celebrate, but this was hard for me. Because I felt like I was gonna have a little gap now with the members, because no matter how close you could be with people, that position's a little different. so I accepted it. And when I got appointed, I I did. I went through some some internal struggles mentally with do I wanna do this? The administrative part is not. I mean, I I was an art director, worked on a computer and switched careers to get away from a computer. And then all of a sudden I'm in front of a computer.
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: I have back problems. I'm like, why do I have back problems? And my wife's like, You're sitting down, dude. And I'm like, my gosh,
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: come on. This age thing stinks by the way.
Kevin Whitsell: Tell me about it.
Jason Yerkovich: so with that and understanding all that, I had to take a different approach. I had to stop making a pity party for myself because I had chosen and I had accepted the role. So I'll advise anybody in a leadership role. They teach you this, but I see guys not do it. Whether it's lieutenant or whatever rank, when you get that position, you need to take the time to have a meeting with your people. You have to set your expectations, your standards. And you have to have communication lines completely open. They have
Kevin Whitsell: That's it.
Jason Yerkovich: to be open. That's the one thing that we not the one thing, but that's one of the big things in this career. And Kevin, I'm I I I I know we miss the mark so much. Right. Otherwise,
Kevin Whitsell: man, do we ever
Jason Yerkovich: we wouldn't have a a beautiful title of the silent
Kevin Whitsell: Uh-huh.
Jason Yerkovich: war within. And it's ironic that it's beautiful. It's a beautiful title because it's truly what's happening to so many people. But if we open up these lines of communication and we have conversations like this, like
Kevin Whitsell: yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: you just said, right? Something resonated with you. It made you realize, man, I should think about this a little differently. And that's why I love conversations. I like I said, I just had one with my members, and I'm the one who was emotional, frustrated. And they talked me off the ledge. And I was like, thank you guys.
Kevin Whitsell: it I it changes. it just changes everything because I can remember when I started so I had a a co manager, so it was two same positions, so it'd be like two chiefs pretty much in the hospital
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: system. and and he was basically handling the schedule. Well, this schedule gets put kind of in my lap because he he wants a different responsibility and I'm willing. I don't have any problem with that. We talk about it. And I quickly realized that I was a horrible scheduler. I do not do well at it. Everybody on our 56-person interdisciplinary pediatric and neonatal critical care team was angry at just me. And I was like, this is awful. Like his worst week. And I can remember my my staff in our little calm center. that I also managed and where my office was right next door to, just rallied and was like, dude, you're fine. this is part of it. And just just really rallied around me. And then that same staff that that was in that little call center when I got canned pretty much, I walked back into the office to say my goodbyes. And that, you know, my boss was super accommodating and let me get my things. Just really peaceful. And I knew something bad was happening when I walked in her office for our one on one and she was actively crying just bawling and I was like, they came with a decision. And I, you know, I didn't get upset. I kind of saw it coming after they
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: investigated. but that little team in that call center just just rallied around me. I was like, this is BS, you know, I don't want you to go anywhere. You know, I'm gonna quit too I said, no, that's silly. I said, listen I said, I cannot take responsibility for all the good things unless I'm willing to take responsibility for the bad things. I said, I would be so hypocritical if I sat here and preached to you guys for the last 12 months that that I had this change of heart. I was a leader for 18 months of that organization. I said, for the last 12 months I've preached this extreme ownership. I said, how ignorant
would I look if I was not able to take extreme ownership for my actions and say, hey, this is what happens. And this is just what it is. It's fine. I did it. I have to pay the price for it. That's what ownership looks like, that it's in the good and the bad that you take the ownership. It's not just
Jason Yerkovich: Yep. Yep.
Kevin Whitsell: cherry picking and saying, I did I've made our call volume go up by 25%. Well, that's great. Yeah, but I also made a bunch of mistakes along the way, and you have to own those as well. So when you said that, that's the first thing that popped in my mind when you talk about Jocko. Cause big fan, but some of the stuff he says is has been so Life changing for me and going, you have to take responsibility for you. And you're still trying to be in the fight. Well, you're not in the fight anymore. You're the guy that's supposed to stand back and detach and go, let me look at the whole situation. And what a change, you know. And
Jason Yerkovich: Water change, absolutely.
Kevin Whitsell: and those guys just just rallied around, but I think it it does going back to that vulnerability piece of it. So Why do you think as men, especially in this position, in these type of positions, why are we so closed off and don't want to have that vulnerability? Why does why is that still seen as almost a weakness at times?
Jason Yerkovich: I think that's it's in a easy way to frame it. It's tradition of the fire service in in all of our fields, first responders,
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah, yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: military, everything like that. I just think that it gives you the when when we're taught those ways to be the closed off, to be the tough, you don't have to be accountable for emotions now. So it's one less thing on your plate. And with the way we're having conversations now and the way we're talking, I think that's you're gonna be exposed now, you know, which is a good thing. but I also want to clarify too. I was watching a podcast with Huberman and
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: he had mentioned I forget who he was interviewing, but one of their first lessons for the day, there was four lessons, but the first one was shut up. Right? Wake up.
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: You're you're maybe not having ownership and you're dwelling on something or you're feeling sorry for yourself. Be grateful. Right.
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: So I do think there's aspects of like the way I teach my members all the time with culture. There's good that we bring forward and the bad we leave behind, but we have to start calling out the bad. And I don't necessarily, I think there is a part where the shut up. Be grateful, there is a part of that because we do have to toughen. We do have to be tough because our jobs are tough. And you know what? Even outside of our jobs in life, in men, in women, people, people in general, life is tough. And we do, we create and we have these wars within our own selves because we don't talk. So, like I said, I think I'm I'm hoping that there's enough people who You know what? Have the courage to have these conversations and not just open up about your feelings, but have the courage to be a leader who says, you know what, I want to listen and genuinely mean it. Because
Kevin Whitsell: Mm. Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: not listening, it's just, I mean, you talk about like guys Jocko, you talk about guys in that level of intensity and that that world. I can promise you. That if they have a leader who next to them is like, hey man, proud of you. I got you. Very proud of the work you're doing. I don't care how old you are, who you are, or
Kevin Whitsell: yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: how big of a a tough person you are. Being supported is what makes us thrive. It it's it's something in humans that we need, you know, and the parts that Wh where we have these conversations, the parts that we might butt heads with some people who don't believe in this is because they think that's weak. And I think that's hysterical because it's absolutely not. Challenging yourself to to feel and then feel for another human being that you're leading, they're gonna be so. They're gonna just be so much better in their careers. They're gonna be great leaders. And that is what you can pass on. Because if your goal is to get a a rank or a bugle and and it's about your name.
Kevin Whitsell: You've lost.
Jason Yerkovich: The wrong reason.
Kevin Whitsell: You've lost already. And you you won't progress. We want to give a massive shout out to our founding sponsor, Five Arrows Forge. When Jason Minershagan launched Five Arrows Forge, he created a coaching movement rooted in faith, built on grit, and designed for lasting growth. Jason is a two-time number one best-selling author, certified NLP trainer, and veteran firefighter who has walked through the fire both on the job and the home front. His coaching program helps men break through anxiety, PTSD, and self-sabotaging behaviors so they can step back into their household as leaders that they were called to be. if you're ready to do the real work and rebuild your mindset, head over to fivearrowsforge.com. Take the first step today at fivearrowsforge.com. So t so tell me about to to kind of switch gears a little bit, tell me about where this built not inherited. I think we've talked a lot about building ourselves and having having these experiences, but where did this this podcast, this book name come from?
Jason Yerkovich: the book well it's carrying the fire. Yep.
Kevin Whitsell: Carrying the fire, yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: break the pattern, lead with purpose.
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: that all came from divorce for me personally. I mean, I think
Kevin Whitsell: Really.
Jason Yerkovich: it was there. It was there. I I mean
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: we become aware when we allow it to come out. And it was there.
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: but that extreme ownership comes and the
book idea I I I've always been passionate about leadership. servant leadership is my I I love it. I just I think
Kevin Whitsell: Same. Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: I just think you can get so much So much more accomplished when you're a servant leader, you know? Because people feed off of it and then they it just gets passed on and passed on. So
Kevin Whitsell: for sure.
Jason Yerkovich: while going through those dark times, I needed to own where I was at. And that the book idea came from there because The support for my membership, the the the guys, they seemed to embrace my approach and what I was doing. And I started getting positive feedback from other departments in our in our division. And it's something I'm passionate about. I I leadership has been a part of my entire life. So that's where the book came from. and then from the book, if you're gonna change your patterns. If you're gonna be aware, you're gonna own it, you're gonna act on it. And then what's the impact? So built not inherited is about the impact. People who have changed either their blueprints or that of others to create a positive impact. And we've got a a list of guests. I mean, the first one that we're gonna have, she is just a brilliant human being. And I wanted Built Not Inherited as the title because I didn't want a fire service focus. I'm gonna have people first responders, obviously, because I just think that this topic is so high up on the the level of importance to talk about. But I want people to know, like, even with my book, like it's not just for first responders. I've actually the feedback I've had the most, probably the best, is spouses of first responders who have read it,
Kevin Whitsell: Absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: you know? And that, to be honest, I didn't even expect that. And when I would have these conversations and people come up and they're like, hey, I just want to say I I really enjoyed it. I I passed it to my brother, my father, my my husband. I'm like, wow, that I didn't I didn't see that angle, but I'm very appreciative of it. Because that means those people have someone in their life that cares. You know.
Kevin Whitsell: Yep. Yep. You're right. You're right. So when does so has the podcast already started and I just missed it or has it not started yet? Okay.
Jason Yerkovich: No, we're just we're recording. Yeah, we're recording right now. I told my my best friend who's doing it with me, Jack Daly. I was like, maybe I started teasing this thing way too early. But it the reality is I I made an announcement a couple of weeks ago. I said, you know what? If if we ignore our our wives and our kids, then we're not living the message. So let's have summer be summer. Our kids are little. Let's enjoy them and dedicate our time to them, live the message. And then it's not going anywhere. So we're we're getting to it now, recording stuff. And it's exciting because I I admire what you do. I admire people who have the courage to invite people to share personal things. It's it's it's a really cool thing, and I think social media wise, let's Let's chalk that up to a positive for people. because now when I get I get reels and stuff and I I look at that stuff, I'm looking for this kind of content and my algorithm's going to that content because all the other stuff I anybody else do you. It's just it's not my thing.
Kevin Whitsell: Well gosh. Yeah. Well, how easy is it to and and I fell into this a few years ago, five, ten years ago. I was going through a dark period for me where I was really having that I had one bad call. I talked about it probably a thousand times. And I I when I public speak, that's that's what I speak on is this one call and I've I've coined it now the call that started the war. And it was it was this call that I'd been a paramedic for five, six years and and had this had this mentality that, I've I've seen everything. There's nothing that's gonna surprise me. And for some reason that this little five year old boy that drowned just did me in, just done. And
Jason Yerkovich: Feel it, brother.
Kevin Whitsell: and really just bottled all that up until the hinges on the proverbial suitcase finally broke open and I had this rage-filled anger outburst that scared my whole
Jason Yerkovich: Mm.
Kevin Whitsell: family and had to had to start looking for some type of help. And I I had never been the one that asked for help. I was always the helper. And and
Jason Yerkovich: Yep. Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: that was so hard. So during that that kind of stuffing period, because this outburst didn't happen until like 2021. And during this stuffing period I got into like Look at all the stuff these people have got. Look at how happy their marriage is. Look at how perfect this social media life is. And that's not true. I mean, it's just nobody shares the bad stuff on on
Jason Yerkovich: No. Gosh, no. Yep.
Kevin Whitsell: on the reels and the and the profiles and all that stuff. But so so when I started this many years ago, or when I started getting this idea many years ago of hey, one day I might go public speak about this, or one day I might have a podcast, you know. throwing all those stuff. One day I might write a book. all these things. I just wanted to be real. I just wanted to be away from that persona of, hey, life's perfect. Look at my, two kids and and my perfect golden retriever and everything's perfect and great. And that's just not true. Life sucks. Life
Jason Yerkovich: No.
Kevin Whitsell: does what it does. And we just keep on going. So to have people say yes to my show that that People know, you know, the Shea Tree Cardiologies, the Paramedic Sophies, you know, all those big names that we've had on the show and now you that people follow and that people know and to come on and say, Yeah, me too. Like, yes, I went through something. Yes, this sucked.
Jason Yerkovich: Me too, bud.
Kevin Whitsell: it's just so free it's been so freeing and cathartic to me even to hear everybody else because
shoot, six, seven years ago, if you if I just would have had that one person. To come alongside me and say, I've been in that darkness too, dude. It sucks. I get it. That would have meant the world. Because it's just like you talked about earlier. We desire to be supported. We have that inner need to have somebody else next to us that can go through the suck with us sometimes. And for us to come on and have real conversations like you and I've had, that's huge. That's huge to me because it would have made all the difference in the world. So when you start your podcast. What are you looking for in a guest? Who are you gonna have on? what what is your idea of this this perfect guest?
Jason Yerkovich: I will say, I'll just say it right now. Our first guest is gonna be a woman, Jamie Ballantini, and she runs a non-for-profit called Rising Lights. And it's an organization that helps special needs kids when the bus stops coming and there's no school and there's nothing after. So what do we do to help these kids? And what she does is just Absolutely amazing. I think it's so inspiring. And and that's the point about the show. It's not just our own internal blueprints, but changing in the impact of others. So it's going to be exciting to sit down and talk with her and see how she got there, you know? Because even with your show, I I I just I love how the worlds collide, right? Like I do believe that that silent war within, there's a part of the changing your blueprints and being aware of your blueprints that helps ease that silent war within. You know?
Kevin Whitsell: Yes.
Jason Yerkovich: So the way our worlds collided, I I I love and I embrace because there has to be something to being aware and owning and building. being built and not inherited, right? Well, that has helped me quiet that silence of that war in my own head. And I've said this on other podcasts, and I have to reiterate this to people like that war. If you stop the work, it's coming back.
Kevin Whitsell: Absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: Right? We're not doing the old school compartmentalizing and tucking it
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: away. No, we're being aware and we understand, Kevin, it's there. This job, it it it's gonna be there. You you work in the EMS field, it is going to be there. It is such a tough and amazing field, and I have so much the utmost respect. I tell new members all the time: you drive down that road and you see a private ambulance and you think you're better than them, get out, get out. We're all
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: doing the work. And I just I love your platform because I think in the first responder world, the military world, these are things that we have to be better on. As long as these suicide rates keep going up or stay the same, we are not doing our best.
Kevin Whitsell: Well, that's what I was gonna say when you said that's the first thing that popped in my mind. we can't keep doing it the way we've been doing it. And compartmentalizing is the way that we do it. And that's why you see a high suicide rate, not just with us, but when our older people that are in that our our legacy firefighters start to retire, that age group has such a high, high mark of suicide. And the reason that is, is because For years we've compartmentalized and we've identified ourselves as a firefighter. And there
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: is, I'm sorry, but there is more to me, and I had to learn this the hard way. There is more to me than just Kevin the paramedic or just Kevin the leader. there's Kevin the dad, there's Kevin the guy who loves to fish. There's Kevin the guy who loves to ride foilers. I have all these hats that I can interchange. And when we start to embrace some of those other hats, we realize life is not surrounded. by the fire service. And that's part of the part of the platform. you know, we're no and we talk about it often that we get so hung up in this identity crisis that this is all we are. And for so long, that's all I was. I didn't know how to turn EMS off. I didn't know
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: how to quiet the noise when I walked in the door. I didn't have any of those resiliency tools I go out and teach now
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: to to have people Hey, you can shut it off like there's a way to shut it off. And
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah. And you see on my socials, train for your life. Right? We
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: train for our fields because the importance is just insane. It's so important that our muscle memory that we're trained to be able to do our jobs without thinking. So why not train our brains to be able to handle the things that come across in a healthier manner? Man, I just I think about I'm remarried now. I think about my wife now. I think about my kid and my step kids. And I stopped training for my life. I'm gonna fail my family. And
Kevin Whitsell: You're exactly right.
Jason Yerkovich: I and I can't, they can't afford that. I can't afford that. I I I love my family so much. I am just beyond blessed. But
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: if I don't treat my life the way I treat my responsibilities in the firehouse for complete strangers, I'm falling short, man. I'm falling short.
Kevin Whitsell: If we try and this is one thing I'm so grateful for. So I was always heavy, heavy on the trend. And I'm so glad that I was because when that five year old that probably wouldn't had a ha wouldn't have had a chance and did wound up not having a chance, but man, when I fro when my brain said it's too much, my muscle memory kicked in. And I knew exactly what to do. And that was the That was the beautiful part of that call that yes, that muscle memory is there, but at the same time, we have to train our minds just as heavily to be able to have that muscle memory to to know to kick it off, to know to hey, this is the time that I'm supposed to be here for my family. Jason, our co-host,
that's usually with me, tells a story that that really made him change. And he walked into his house and he can hear all the joyful. joyful things of his home. He can hear his children laughing. He can hear his wife laughing with him. All the things we just love and and so precious. What? Is that my chicken? Boy, go on. What chicken is that? What chicken is that? The chicken that's in the refrigerator. It's just gotta be fried. That's it. I'm sorry. Yeah, the joys.
Jason Yerkovich: The joys, my friend.
Kevin Whitsell: But we have to train our minds the same way. And it's it's so interesting to see how many people in our profession truly come on this platform and say very similar things that a couple of years ago I lost it, you know, or I went through a divorce or I lost a a great woman or I lost a great man. We've had women come on and say the same thing. And
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: and it just goes back to you have not figured out that there's more to this life than just that job. Because it is something, because it's so important, we get so wrapped in it. And and I don't think that's necessarily always a bad thing, but you have to know how to take the wrapping off. You you have to know how to make it stop. And so many of us do not. So I think that's why I love my platform. We've gotten way off script and I love this. This is the best. These are the best conversations. So tell me tell me your why. Tell me the why you do this. Why you keep showing up, why it's important to you.
Jason Yerkovich: 'Cause I'd been in the dark place. I don't want anybody if I can help someone avoid that and to assist them to learn these lessons in life before I did, then it's a it's a huge win. And and it's not for me, it's for that person because with this conversation I I I relate to so much the of what you're saying and pretty sure you felt pain and it hurts, you know. post separating, divorcing,
Kevin Whitsell: Same.
Jason Yerkovich: alone in my condo. I mean, was your typical firefighter. What's who's gonna be my best friend? It's gonna be a bottle.
Kevin Whitsell: Same. That's exactly what I did. And it was just to go to sleep. It was just to make the noise stop. Of all the Yep. Yep.
Jason Yerkovich: But then it makes the noise worse the next day. It it gets so loud, So if you and I can have these conversations and somebody sees it, one person, and they don't have to go to that point, man, that's awesome. Because we owe it, like we said, not just in life, the why, my why now for sure, and my field and my job. Is to say, and I tell them all the time, that culture that we're building here, we will bring the good from the past, but I will tell you every story of the negative of why I'm doing what I'm doing. Because if I don't teach you and I don't tell you, then you're just going to take advantage of it. Because you don't know the reason
Kevin Whitsell: That's right. Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: why I I'm I'm fighting for you guys. I might be a battalion
chief, I might wear white. I might have the two bugles, but my fight is still for my blue shirts while defending my village and doing my best due diligence for my village. But the more I keep their priorities of health and being the best public servants, then the village and everybody, we're all succeeding. And they're gonna support that, you know. So the why is it it's to help people,
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: and and I and wearing this darn rink, I don't get to be on the ambulance, you know. I'm I'm in a car, I'm in an SUV. I I'm part of reels and skits that make fun of me.
Kevin Whitsell: You're exactly right. You're exactly right. You are.
Jason Yerkovich: So to make to to to make the point, the fact is if I could pour everything into these, my members, my family, then they're gonna live life and they're gonna pass it on. And they're gonna pass it on and they're gonna pass it on. It's just that little little trickle, man. It could become it could become an ocean if we all just put in that effort to help each other. That's all.
Kevin Whitsell: I ha I have to ask this, and this is just for more personal reasons than it is for the show. Does being a father change the way you show up?
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah, for sure.
Kevin Whitsell: For your for your members.
Jason Yerkovich: For sure. For sure. Fatherhood,
Kevin Whitsell: Absolutely. Yeah, I think so too.
Jason Yerkovich: hands down, single most life altering, changing thing that will ever happen in my life. And babe, I love you. You're amazing. I'm glad we met. But she understands. She's got triplets. My stepkids are triplets. They are the they're the reason. You know? I I can't. I've been asked before about the book and I said I put that book out. And that book is like my son, right? I have to live it now. I can't put something out there and be something else. I can't live a life where my son is gonna watch me repeat the patterns that I repeated, and I love my father, and I love my grandfather, and I love my mother, and I love my grandparents, but just like a fire culture. Take the bad and get rid of it. But that to do that, you have to look in the mirror. And do you want to do
Kevin Whitsell: Absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: you want to challenge yourself? Are you strong enough to challenge yourself? Right? Because I think in a culmination of everything that we're talking about here, that's tough. I know plenty of tough guys. Truly. know plenty of them. But
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: the people that I find where I'm like, wow. are people who are very self-aware. They own their mistakes and their members know it. I've watched it. I've learned. I've learned from my own, my own mentors, you know? And those
Kevin Whitsell: Sure.
Jason Yerkovich: are the people that just, man, the impact's huge.
Kevin Whitsell: Absolutely. Absolutely. And and hopefully, and and you say look in the mirror, and that's so funny. I've shared this so many times, but when I started therapy, she she because I got really personal with my therapist really quick, we developed a great relationship and she said, You love Amazon
Jason Yerkovich: Good for you.
Kevin Whitsell: and God, I do love Amazon. My wife hates it. but it's like Christmas every day showing up at the door. Who doesn't love that? But she said, I want you to go on Amazon. I want you to buy something. So I was like, okay, this is great. I love this already. I can say my therapist made me do it. and she made me buy this little, little shower mirror. It's almost like a shaving mirror. And she said, every day, because I had really poor self-image issues, like everything about
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: me that I would say about myself was just inherently negative. And she said, Every day I want you to look in that mirror and say something nice about yourself. Can I tell you that was the most uncomfortable thing to do for the first couple of weeks? But but once
Jason Yerkovich: yeah. Excuse me. yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: your brain falls into it, it's so easy. And of course, I hinge it on my faith and being a good father and a good husband, and that I'm beautifully and wonderfully made, and that I am very much an image bearer of God. And I say those things to myself, but I also say, hey, you're a good leader because you take responsibility. Hey, you're a good leader because you genuinely care about your people. And and that's the worst part of not being with them. this morning was extremely difficult, having to wake up on a Monday morning and having nowhere to go and nothing to do. And I'm like, this is pretty tough. I don't like this.
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: and getting back into the to the job market is kind of a fun adventure because I said to my dad, I said, this is getting on a dating website after you've divorced.
Jason Yerkovich: Ha ha ha.
Kevin Whitsell: this is like, hey, back on the market. I'm ready. Single and ready to mingle. Everybody come over here. but I am having a little bit of fun with it. And I and I do poke jokes. But really the the basis of it is you have to look in the mirror and and self self build a little bit. Because If you listen to the world, they're gonna tell you you're wrong, you suck, all these things. You're gonna have videos
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: made about you riding in your SUV and driving up to the fire scene. but if you listen to that and you take any merit in that, you will just self-destroy. I mean, you just will. So you have to be able
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: to take responsibility and go, hey, I am good at these things. Hey, I did care about my people. Hey, I really was. I left an impact with people. I didn't leave an impact on the company. I said for years, my my former company is much bigger than any of us. So when I die or when I leave, they'll have my job posted the next day. And that's just the that's just the way it is. Yeah, it might be that day. But yeah.
Jason
Yerkovich: Hopefully it's the next day. It might be that day. You know what I mean? But you know what the thing to your to your point about self-affirmation, it's vocalizing that and telling people this, it's a great thing, right? Because what do I think of? I'm 45. I think of the mockery of Stuart Smalley on Saturday Night Live. I'm good enough. I'm strong enough. You know? And that
Kevin Whitsell: yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: is something that we mock. Is especially as men. But the
Kevin Whitsell: yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: reality is the power in self-affirmation. It is
Kevin Whitsell: There's such a power in it.
Jason Yerkovich: there's such a power in it. like the power of prayer, it's positive thoughts, it's positive mindsets that help you build into a stronger person because what you tell yourself, you're gonna believe it, whether you you think so or not. You are going to believe it. It becomes you. And I hear you so loud and clear, brother. The negative self-talk that I did for so many years. And guess what? Still do. Still do. It's a battle. You know, the
Kevin Whitsell: That's a battle.
Jason Yerkovich: first day I wrote, wrote on my bathroom mirror with a marker, positive things. I felt the same thing. I'm like, this is dorky. You know, I feel I feel goofy, you know. But all of a sudden every day I'm reading it before I shower or while I'm brushing my teeth.
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm.
Jason Yerkovich: And it's like I told my wife when I met her, she was like, I don't believe. She's like, I just don't believe that you were negative in the past and stuff like that. She goes, You're so, you're so positive. And you try to be so positive. I go, babe, I hope you understand that I
Kevin Whitsell: It's a work.
Jason Yerkovich: try to be, but I'm convincing myself that I am too. and that's I do it excessively to help that convincing of my own brain. And guess what? Ten years or seven years later, after starting to do that, it is me. It's I don't feel fake anymore. I don't feel like a fraud anymore.
Kevin Whitsell: Mm-hmm. Right, right.
Jason Yerkovich: Positive Jay, hey, I've arrived. I'm here. And now the most important thing is my son sees it. And my son, the reports I get, he's 10 years old. Or he's gonna be 10 in two weeks. The reports I get from the teachers, he cares. He's a leader, he's a positive light, and he wants to help all the other kids in class. And I'm like, all right, Jay, if you need a reminder, that's it right there. You're doing something right in life.
Kevin Whitsell: my six-year-old is on a kindness fundraiser. That's what the school's doing, this kindness fundraiser. And he's just, dude's kidding it. And I'm like,
Jason Yerkovich: Awesome.
Kevin Whitsell: you got it, dude. But part of it too is your environment. I see it behind you too. Like I can always tell the guests that are inherently positive and the guests that tend to steer toward the negative side. Because
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: you and I have the things we
love behind us. This this painting, this Dan Sun painting. Everybody knows Dan Sun, you know, Daniel Sundial. We had him on our show
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: and he just affirmed me so much that everything that I was doing well he's a counselor now. I didn't know that, but he's a counselor now. He wrote a book called Unstuck. Great book. but he just affirmed it, he's like, you can always tell the people who love their their self enough to make their environment feel some kind of way, whatever the feeling is they're trying to achieve, whether it's this intense energy or whether it's Positivity or sweather like me, all the things that I enjoy looking at every day. All my stickers. I'm an avid sticker collector. I know that's dumb. I know that's high school stuff, but I love love my stickers. I love all of them. I love them. I get I get picked out about my stickers. I love all my stickers. I love all my
Jason Yerkovich: It's not dumb. Nah, it's not dumb. Come on, man. Good. Yes.
Kevin Whitsell: patches and my coins over here. I just love all that stuff. And when you surround yourself with that, it only brings up the mood of the room.
Jason Yerkovich: Mm-hmm.
Kevin Whitsell: I'm really I'm and My staff used to pick on me about it, but I've all time I've got a diffuser running over my head right now because I like this I like the sense, the manly sense, the whiskey and rum, or whatever it is.
Jason Yerkovich: Yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: But and they'd say, You're so bougie. I was like, No, I make my environment what I want it to be. And that's such a part of it. Yes, it's speaking into yourself, but the but the other part of that equation is make your environment feel like you want to feel throughout the day. if you wanna if you wanna live in a positive environment. Be positive. Surround yourself with other positive people. Encourage people to be positive. Make your environment well. Man.
Jason Yerkovich: Yep. Yep. And not only that, my friend, do that when you're leading people and and encourage them to make the in the environment positive like you are, because it how we walk through the door is gonna dictate the day. If I walk through the door and I'm in a bad mood, those guys are gonna be like, crap, why the heck is Jay in a bad mood? You know? So And I know we gotta fight through that sometimes because sometimes we all live, we all have lives. We all
Kevin Whitsell: We all live, yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: have personal lives, but yes, that environment. So as leaders, that's that's a great where that's a great place to start, right, Kevin? Is by yourself
Kevin Whitsell: Yep. absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: at home and then you build on that. And I love it, man. I collect all the stickers, man. You got we got one time around in this life. Enjoy, be happy, right?
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah, it's the thermos You're right. You're right. So tell us tell us where we can find all your things. I want people to have a good a good image of you and where they can find your material, where they can get the book. just
Jason Yerkovich: Sure.
Kevin Whitsell: tell us all the things.
Jason Yerkovich: All right. the book, like I said, is carrying the fire. it's available on Amazon. you can order it, look it up online, and there's other sites. Amazon, get it from Amazon. It's $16.99. it is a I like to call it a manual, not just a book. it's a quick read. I wrote it with the intent of people in our fields. And that's not saying I dumbed anything down. I'm understanding that reading a book for me might take me nine years. So I wrote it to be able to for for other people to understand that they can read this thing pretty quickly and start start putting it to action and start changing their own lives. so the book, like I said, on Amazon, Built not inherited is going to be coming out. you can find all my other stuff with Jason Yerkovich underscore author for Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube. That YouTube page will convert to the built not inherited, which I've already started to do, but it's under Jason Yerkovich author. TikTok, all this stuff. never thought I'd be saying that out loud, honestly. I never did, but
Kevin Whitsell: Me either. Me either.
Jason Yerkovich: Like I said, if if if this is the the platform that can help just build these strong conversations. and I say this all the time like if I reference men or the it's just my experience in life, right? So I resonate with that a little more. But it's everybody. These conversations and women, you're light years ahead of us with the conversations.
Kevin Whitsell: No, absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: you know. But if we can do it, I I'm watching my father on his 16th or 17th year of retirement. And guess what? He wasn't in our fields, but men of the past, they died when they retired because they sat on a couch, they had no friends, and they didn't have conversations. And my dad has a group of friends. man, if I showed you this golf picture they had from last weekend, they the behavior on these guys is like teenage boys. I'm like, But that's why they're all thriving. Because conversation, yes, man, we're we're all one. We're all one big unit. Let's all just love
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah, that's what I want to turn into. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: each other, build each other up and and make life better for everybody. So that's where they can catch me on all those Jason Yerkovich
Kevin Whitsell: Man. Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: author. That's where all my socials are are part of.
Kevin Whitsell: So go buy the book, go follow this guy. I'm telling you, he is putting out some banging content. he is hitting the nail on the head. He is somebody I have followed for the past few months and love when you come across my screen. I'm gonna stop every single time and watch the whole thing. So you get my all the points for the engagement. So I I absolutely love your stuff. Yeah,
Jason Yerkovich: I appreciate it, brother. That's mutual, my friend. That's mutual.
Kevin
Whitsell: I love your stuff. Well, thank you for such an honest, open conversation. thank you for the no judgment zone on my news to start the thing and you're you're you're awesome dude. I'm I'm telling you, I am I'm stoked for everything you're doing.
Jason Yerkovich: Kevin, that's mutual. And I there's your your path is gonna be filled, fulfilled. You're gonna still
Kevin Whitsell: Absolutely.
Jason Yerkovich: be building people up and you're gonna find where you belong and where you're meant to be. God willing, and that's gonna happen. And
Kevin Whitsell: Yeah.
Jason Yerkovich: and I could say your the way you're going about it and the way you express yourself as a man, I could say I'm proud of watching that. That's pretty cool. We could all learn from that. Yeah.
Kevin Whitsell: Well, thank you. That does mean a lot for me. It really does. Guys, this is these conversations, the whole reason we started the podcast. It's the whole reason we started a nonprofit. We're we're now going out doing CISM. we're going out to local departments, we're doing it and and we're providing education to other departments, we're providing education to counselors to be first responder trained. there is a training out there that is particularly for counselors to know how to deal with first responders. We're providing that at no cost. that's through our nonprofit. If you guys want to donate to that, that's the only way that we keep going with that mission to provide education and peer support and the CISMs that we provide around the Memphis area. but also now getting requests after doing our first conference, getting requests to come and do other conferences across the country. I've got three phone calls this week. with battleforge foundation in utah with west tennessee healthcare that whole system out there wants one and with a guy up in new england which is crazy to me because I'm in Memphis Tennessee and everybody automatically deducts at least 10 IQ points every time I open my mouth because I have a southern draw. so battle I fight I'm fine with it. I have no issues. but guys we Appreciate your support. We appreciate you listening. And you guys have just made this thing what it is. And I am so, so grateful. I can't tell you the gratitude that I have every morning when I am saying those positive, reaffirming things for what we have been able to build here. We manage a team of five people that have all gone through the same trainings that I have and have learned to express themselves in such a beautiful way. I've watched people get to open up. to these people and them have some true life-changing experiences. So if this helped you or if this resonated with you, go out and share it. just just tell Spotify that you like what we're doing. Share it. Give it a like, give it a comment, give it whatever the platforms require. But Jason, again, thank you. This has been absolutely amazing. As we say every single week to close our show, be safe. Take care of your mind. And we'll talk soon. Bye everybody. The war isn't fought in the flashing lights or the chaos of the call. It's fought in the quiet after the rig is backed in and the boots are off and the noise dies down. If today's conversation hit home, don't keep it to yourself. Share the episode with a brother or sister on your shift who needs to hear they aren't fighting alone. Take 10 seconds right now, rate, review, and leave a comment on whatever platform you're listening on. Every review, every comment, and every share helps us break through the silence that we are fighting against and help those providers who are bleeding out in the dark. We read every single message and we love to interact with you. None of this happens in a vacuum. A massive thank you to our incredible team here at Asilent War Within. They work tirelessly to make sure this platform stays standing. And a special non-negotiable thank you to our founding sponsor, Five Arrows Forge. Without the belief and backing of Five Arrows Forge, this show simply would not exist. Founded by firefighter author and NLP master coach Jason Minershagen, Five Arrows Forge is bringing real operational level mental health readiness to first responders, men, and fathers. They take mindset coaching out of the classroom and put it right where it belongs, the home front. If you are ready to break repeating cycles, shift limiting beliefs, and lead your family with conviction, go visit them right now at fivearrowsforge.com. If you're struggling and you need real vetted resources, or if you just need a safe place to land, go to our hub, a silentworldin.com. Everything we do, every resource we've gathered is right there waiting for you. Remember. The war in your own head stops the moment you stop fighting it alone.