Fullstendig transkripsjon av Horse Training from the Great Dressage Master Nuno Oliveira

a symbol for, for ourselves, for life in general, What role and a great yeah. In reflection and a great ability to mirror ourselves evolve, grow spiritually, transcend consciously. Caroline Beste (7m 31s): I mean, it goes on and on and on. So yeah, we're streaming live usually through zoom to the Tao of Horsemanship every week, Monday through Wednesdays for at least the month of September this week I'm we are talking about training, horse training in general. And so yesterday we talked about, let's talk about horse training, the good, the bad in the us. And I talked a lot about my MateryMembership Program. It, and also in that it wasn't just about the programs so much is it was what the program or represented and why it is a program and why I designed it as such, versus I didn't just design it 20 days. Caroline Beste (8m 12s): Yeah. Training course or 12 a week training course that just gives you tips and strategies. It's really a training system. And in that training system, No it's class right now. Asters we're going to talk about my favorite. Great. Master one of them. I have two today. Nuno Oliveira and Nuno Oliveira yes. A classical Dressage trainer and instructor, but more than anything, he represented classical Horsemanship in the art of Horsemanship in the foundation of Horsemanship the principles of Horsemanship and that's what my method is all about. Caroline Beste (8m 54s): And I highly Revere him from I've only been able to study his books and steady what little there's been out there. No is. And apprentice of is, and I am going to read from one of his longest apprentices today that knew him very well. Yeah. We were just represented just like, I think Tom Dorrance did, they were like the The. No, Which is another word for it too. Caroline Beste (9m 24s): Not just gurus. No. In the masters of Just Western Horsemanship hear in the United States were Nuno, you know, is European and come from the classical horsemanship. And so it just really wanna bring those worlds together, you know, No old principles and theory. And the reason being is because the great masters that I revere, they cared about horses they understood. Caroline Beste (9m 58s): So of course they understood how important it was to look at the horse holistically. And Not here to be like, Oh, you know, Your, there's a spiritual aspect definitely to holism. It is part of the holistic, because you're dealing with all aspects of a being of being's wellbeing. I'm a being, horses or being yeah, No, No. You know, any socially and emotionally intelligent species has a capacity to evolve and grow and yeah, No, we need to wholeness. Caroline Beste (10m 39s): They're there their wellbeing. And that means the spiritual. That means the emotional and the mental. No, From me, I Revere him so much in the same with Dorrance's and says with Horsemanship and it just amazing. So yesterday we were just talking about horse training And you guys can find it Links to that. Podcast maybe not on YouTube or yet if you go the Tao of Horsemanship or maybe they've been shared already on my personal page here and today, we're going to be talking about horse training from the great master, his perspective, Nuno Oliveira and I'll more about who he is, where you came from. Caroline Beste (11m 20s): And tomorrow we're going to be talking about more in depth. We are going to be talking about dangerous horse the specialized topics tomorrow in what do we do with a problem Horses and, and we all are. I think we all kinda get anybody that's up to a follower of mine are a subscriber, have mine, a student of mine, your three with me. I think that the mass majority of you, that there are new problems. Horses do we create the problems? So I'm not gonna spend any time talking about that specifically, but I am good to be talking about what do we do with so many of these negative life. Caroline Beste (12m 1s): And when I do my monthly webinars on the MasteryMembership, and it goes out into phase the university of Facebook, maybe it, it, it becomes thousands of people, people that come to a webinar, I get flooded with questions, which I love, you know, we're here to take questions, so don't be shy and me every month and how you receive similar questions for people all over the world, the same questions, you all our learning, same horrible types of training, all of the world. Caroline Beste (12m 41s): And in some parts of the world, it's worse than others, depending on your level of education and affluence, but it's too, it just drives me crazy. And it's really sad. And that's one of the things I'm going to be talking about tomorrow is what do we do these problems? And unfortunately what I see professional out there and doing the same thing, then a lot of my other professional equine trainers and instructors, they're doing our work online and were starting to promote it through social media. Caroline Beste (13m 16s): And I'm here to warn, you guys know that there's a lot of tricks to the trade. Lot of my professional, some of the top, the most popular, just regurgitating, stealing language, using words to bait use, to do it and regurgitating it so that they don't have its kind of like it's very superficial. They really, there are good at talking the top that they are not good at doing it, actually showing you how to do it. Caroline Beste (13m 47s): I think my YouTube videos see for themselves with not just one of my bosses, but many of my horses and you certainly see me with horses that I used to work with. They no longer do work with any horses. I don't do horses set my own, but you get to see me. You get to see how real it is that you can develop everything you see with my horses. You can do this. I want you to have the same experience. So we are going to dive in deeper because what we're going to talk about today across the board, unless you get into traditional your size or do your PE in classical on your side or academics or the academic art of Riding

when you get into these older methods and they're all European based and that is unless you do. Caroline Beste (14m 34s): And it's, it's really isn't public or what's a word stream here in the States yet. Really? Isn't it still isn't we got competitive dressage but we don't understand classes really we've taken competitive or were taking class at your side as a European, right. masters' in, We bastardized it into a competitive dressage and we spend half the time preparing are horses and preparing the foundation. We spend half the time that the horse deserves and needs and they rush them in. Caroline Beste (15m 5s): We force them and we see that in many of, not just your son, what I'm going to pick on that one, because that's my favorite. My favorite. Absolutely. So Again Sabrina is here to take, you guys have seen it already. You say hi. Yeah, we've already got a couple of our, our students on the podcast. Welcome so before I read an interview from one of Nuno Alverez longest apprentices, one of them, and that will help you get a really great idea about who this guy is and why I think you so important. Caroline Beste (15m 47s): I'm going to read first, some of my favorite quotes of his that I've been collecting throughout the years. And when I got back into Horses as a second career of you, that don't know it. And it's important to understand this because this is, to me, part of classical training, classical horsemanship is I took two years off. Yes. I worked to prepare this. Nobody gave me money. I've I've made all my own money. Caroline Beste (16m 18s): You guys. And I had a business, another career, another business of my own before this business in web design and marketing in, in DC, it's a very successful, I got divorced, gave it to my ex husband, and then I went off into this direction, but I saved money for years and took my plan of action to get the hell out of my other career. And how could I make a living with Horses it's so expensive and not just make a living with them. Caroline Beste (16m 50s): I didn't want to do it. Traditionally. I was turned off by competition and showing as a young, a young girl, young child turned off by the way back then. And I had experienced so many amazing things with my late Horse. I mean, I was doing Liberty when I was 10 years old with him. I was riding bridal. As I was jogging with him through 500 acres of hay fields. I was learning how to ride. And then I did everything. Everything that I'm teaching today, I just wasn't following anybody's method. Caroline Beste (17m 21s): There's no method I'm in my fifties. There's no method back then. And so I took the course of going to college and, and then going off into a whole nother direction. And so, but I always wanted to do something Horses and most importantly, I have wanted to take what I have learned and be able to share that it was so magical. And it was akin to the black stallion in Alec Ramsey in its experiences and what I've read. And I knew it was fantastical and I was idealistic and I was young and I was creative and there's nothing wrong with that because I followed my dreams and I never stopped feeling or losing what I had discovered that I never stop that I just parked it. Caroline Beste (18m 3s): I banked it and kept it somewhere really sacred. But when I had enough money, my own money to finally invest in studying and getting back into horses, and this was very well thought out, plan of mine. I did it. I took two years off, two years off about myself, a horse farm had my first three. Horses my Trinity and my donkey. And I studied And and I'm not only studied one on one with some of our leading trainers today that I would not recommend. Caroline Beste (18m 36s): And in every discipline I studied the books I love to read. And back in the early two thousands, the internet was still new. Internet was very new. I mean, Facebook was brand new Facebook, you know, Facebook use to be MySpace, MySpace, and it wasn't used to be, Sabrina Arbogast (18m 53s): MySpace was a different software. Caroline Beste (18m 53s): Yeah. Then something totally different. Then Myspace and Facebook. So you can find a lot on the internet. It certainly wasn't anything about Spirituality. Maybe the first thing I found out was Bill and Tom Dorrance, but that's because I belonged when I signed up to the subscription of a Collective Horseman and my dad and I we're really into Horse Illustrated. I grew up with Horse Illustrated as a young girl and Western Worseman. So I knew about some of the more basic horseman that are still still around today. Caroline Beste (19m 29s): I never heard of Parelli until I was getting back into Horses and it was really skeptical about Natural Horsemanship, but skeptical and a good way. Well, at, at the same time it was, I can go to this new way, a revolutionary way of thinking and working with Horses. And so that was my first path when I got back into horses and I wanted to learn as much. And the biggest point I'm driving home in this podcast is taking your time to study. Caroline Beste (20m 0s): And I learned, I was learning already by taking my time to study how to become a better learner, because it was going to be really important to me as a teacher, because I had so many hardships learning and retaining information in testing. I have horrible time, all through schooling and in college. And so I wanted to figure out, you know, there's gotta be a better way to learn. How can I help students? And this has definitely going to help me with Horses because each horse is an individual, even though were all going to go to school and learn the same things. Caroline Beste (20m 36s): That's your classical Foundation learn the same things to give us a very well rounded education. Well b`alanced and were having trouble putting this video. So if you still see me, I still see you now. Yes. Yeah. But there'll be a lag time. Sabrina Arbogast (20m 50s): Yeah. They've been saying you've been stopping

and going. Caroline Beste (20m 53s): Yeah. Thanks to the weather and being rural. So it'll get better. After September. I started a worse time in Florida, so long story short and bringing all of this up because we, we don't we've seem to look. We definitely lost to this drive enthusiasm, excitement for learning in everybody and because of technology, because of the ease and accessibility of getting information instantaneously in, especially with our younger generations coming up and in every occupation, not just in Horsemanship, I mean, everything is your soap click and don't, I don't want you to call me old school. Caroline Beste (21m 36s): I mean, I am old school, in my life and my reasoning there and my thoughts, and as far as taking your time to study and learn, but that is the way it should be in, especially with horses. They are such a complex beings, not a mental, not so much mental, but emotionally and physically, there's so much to learn, especially the biomechanics of a movement. And then the complexity of the emotions and psychology, it's a much deeper than most people understand, even in there, even as professionals. Caroline Beste (22m 13s): So we need to take the time and study and train our eye, train our I before we start the kinesthetics, the tactile, the one-on-one visceral experiences Horses mean me to train our I, and then I'm gonna drive home a hard this week. Me to also be set up, to learn about the horse and not just the mechanics of the body movement and definitely not the mechanics of the exercises, meaning I don't want it to become mechanical. Caroline Beste (22m 50s): And unfortunately, so much of our training has become mechanically because everybody's trying to please you with your quick fixes that they rush the horse and they make things up here really easy and all this training. And some of you see guys, do you agree? What does that? Sometimes people are the trainers they are. So if the people are impatient, yes, they stand there and they're like, okay, what are you doing? I want you to fix my horse. What are you doing? They are not like, they get impatient with me on YouTube. Caroline Beste (23m 23s): They have their comments that we talk too much. Caroline out of a 30 minute video. Maybe 10 minutes is about principles in concept. Yes. People our age. Yeah. Like they just want it now. It's that kind of a no, no, no. I don't think so much in my generation because in older, because of the way we were brought up, but that's going to be as a parent, both of us being to our children and our sons are the same age. Sabrina Arbogast (23m 48s): Yeah. Caroline Beste (23m 48s): I mean, what's what are the millennials? You know? I mean, I can't even talk about them because I'm so disgusted with what's going on today in our country in so much of it is the youth. They don't have to be of what's grounding. Then where's the level of appreciation. There's instant gratification all the time. Instead of taking the time to earn something, earned the relationship and earn it character, it makes you have, if we don't have of that, well, we don't have any horse training. Caroline Beste (24m 19s): No, I mean, that's what are my method is all about, is taking the time to develop your horse. You have teaching you how to train. I like to say develop your horse. No, no, no. I just wanna get this fixed. My horse can't pick up the correct lead. It is horrifying. I mean, correct. You're a horse picking up the correct lead should never be fixed with you, riding them maybe a quick, honestly, but it needs a professional. I like mine to assess most of the time. It's a, it's a bigger issue that needs to be dealt with on the ground and by developing a horse. Caroline Beste (24m 55s): And then we will look at the rider, maybe the rider is getting in the way. That's a common question who are some pick up the correct lead or, or won't hold the lead and then counter canners. And it's like, well, we don't need a professional either to look at both of you to see what's going on. Is it the rider? Or is it the horse? It's a combination. It's so often this needs to be solved on the ground. And so here we go back to the groundwork and then there's to many people teaching you groundwork, and there's not enough writing. Caroline Beste (25m 27s): Everybody is still scared to right. Or are we still don't have a safe horse to ride. So are you all able to see me? Cause I can't see myself anymore. Now. I'm still seeing You I have might have a delay, but I am still seeing you. But I think we went through this before, where you can't see yourself, but yet everybody else came out. Thank God. That's what we went to SU. Oh my gosh. Yes. That's why you went to yeah. Okay. So let's start with Nuno and you know, let me know, let's read to know in the comments area, how many of you guys are familiar, familiar with Nuno? Caroline Beste (26m 2s): So here's some great quotes of his on Riding and every quote that I have I could spend a whole podcast on you guys. And I have a lot of quotes to talk about because every one of these for my students, every one of these quotes is in your MasteryMembership Program. I mean, I've been studying this guy and I would read his writings and I would take notes. And that one, I like these quotes at one aha, would stick out from me and I would wanna learn. Caroline Beste (26m 36s): And then it would go off and a two year sabbatical, it took and saved all that money. I would go off and start trying To find a classical dressage trainer in my area that knew something that taught. Similarly, was really cool, horribly disappointed. That does not surprise me until I came to Florida. And then when I became working at equitation instructor, my Portuguese instructor, who, who was not a Nuno follower, but very similar. And Cause, I'm very Baroque in my, and my dressage and I was taught that way. Caroline Beste (27m 9s): And then of course my work, another working equitation instructor, who

was phenomenal in, who certified me in Florida, Jean. So yeah, just amazing. Here's the first quote, the secret and Riding is to do only a few things, but to do them, right. This one stood out from me because when I was coming back, I'm always a student, but I was a full time student back then. Caroline Beste (27m 40s): Right? That was a learning from lots of different people in different disciplines, reigning, specifically natural Horsemanship and classical dressage. So what I couldn't stand in my dressage lessons was the barking, not the yelling, but the barking, but lets go, lets go, lets go do this, do this, do this. And it's like, they're telling you to do so many things or be aware of so many things in your body. What is the Horse doing? You know? Caroline Beste (28m 11s): So you got your focused on you. You're focused on the horse and then you're trying to focus on the combination of the two of you in how you're influencing each other. So there's like these three worlds you have to focus on when you are a student and taking a lesson. And I couldn't understand why they threw so many things at you. I don't do that. I'll get you to focus on one specific thing in a lesson. And there's other things affecting that, which there usually are either with you or the Horse we'll address them, but I'm never going to bark it. Caroline Beste (28m 50s): You never, so the secret in writing is to do only a few things, but to do them, right? So that means take your time and be patient take your time. And when you're developing your Riding Foundation or you're Horse's Riding Foundation, which is what my MasteryMembership is all about. There are they're have to be building blocks. You guys, you just don't start doing this and then you do this. It's all gonna fall apart. You have to have a curriculum or a step by step process. Caroline Beste (29m 21s): You have two you're going to school for you and your Horse. The next one is the more you do the less success you will have. How many of us have felt that way in a lesson, whatever discipline. So the more you do, the less success you will have, the less you do, the more you will go, right? MasteryMembership, students. This is great for you guys that get that become you become overachievers. Caroline Beste (29m 52s): There's a lot of us out there that are overachievers or you might get easily overwhelmed. This is for you. The less you do, the more we'll go, right? I mean it, a lot of these quotes, you guys are gonna hear it in the MasteryMembership in my words, but now you're gonna understand the next one. I don't want to have riders who tire themselves out instead thinking, and I'm going to add feeling a feeling of your whole life. Caroline Beste (30m 26s): No. So often we are pushing and forcing and making and fighting what they are. Horses whether its on the ground or under saddle Nuno says, I don't want to have riders sounds out, work by thinking instead. No is good to ride with closed eyes once and awhile. Absolutely. I think I say that thing. I would say that mastery membership, if you trust your horse or if you need to be led just to get the feel because so often when we open our eyes, we fixate on something and become very linear and that's just hardwired in us because of our, the way our eyes are positioned and were predatorial. Caroline Beste (31m 15s): So it's good to ride with your eyes closed. It's one of the best ways I've taught my students to actually feel the cannon, to ride the Cantor butt. That's on one of my skull horses and it's just a few strides, a canter. That's another thing that drives me nuts is to many. And I keep calling them backyard instructors because you know, no, you went to learn to ride. Caroline Beste (31m 46s): So they sticky want a horse. And before you know what you are trying the first or second time, no Training and capturing is an art. It takes time to develop the ability to arrive those movements in before you as a rider or learn to ride this movement. You, you have to make sure the horse is collected because if the horse is not collected either at the chart, which means their balanced and straight, or if you don't have that at the trotter, canter, it's impossible to ride. Caroline Beste (32m 17s): It's impossible for me to ride. It's like a pogo stick. Feel like a jarred at the whole time. It's impossible. You lose your balance or bouncing all over the Horse you're negatively influencing and affecting their balance. So that's, that's a whole nother conversation. No Nuno on the hands. That was Nuno a lot of writing. Here's Nuno on the hands. The hands have to be like cement. When the Horse resists in like butter, when the course yields So the hands. Caroline Beste (32m 52s): So I'm going to talk about what this means, because I don't want anybody in this interpreting this. We always want a soft and light hands in our, when we ride, because that's what creates and maintains a response of horse. If we're not closing or having resistance, we are going to create that in our Horse. What Nuno means by this is when the force resists. I call it shutting the door. You just close and hold on, let the horse resist against themselves. Caroline Beste (33m 26s): It doesn't, it's like creating a box. And I talk about this on my MasteryMembership. It's not about you pulling and fighting with a horse so that you are just holding back and letting the Horse figure it out. Then as soon as the horse relapses, you release, you're teaching the horse how to create their own a release. You're teaching a horse how to create your own a release, which helps them self Carrie make sense. Caroline Beste (34m 1s): Oh yeah. Pretty powerful. Huh? Oh yeah. Now, you know, I've been studying this stuff. I mean, I've been thinking about this on own time. I love listening to it when riding a well-trained Horse the fingers should only very rarely close. When I teach, I teach you that your fingers are like playing. When they're attached to the

reigns, it's like playing an instrument and you are communicating right? Getting feedback through the rains that instrument, your communicating. Caroline Beste (34m 34s): Yes. The small in rain fingers can yield that never the thumb in the art of righty, any excuse to yield is justified. There is a world of difference between holding and pulling. So when we go back to the hands, have to be like cement becomes resistant. Caroline Beste (35m 7s): We're just holding was shutting it down. Creating were shutting the door down the door, going forward, which means most of the time you guys have to shorten your rains. Most of the time you're riding with rains too long. And then you pull many pool on that horse. The horse is going to push cause that's instinctive oppositional by nature. So yes, by love that there is a world of difference holding And pooling. Caroline Beste (35m 40s): Each use of the hand has to be proceeded by an action of the upper body. Otherwise the rider is merely influencing the Horses head. Nobody's teaching you guys this you're all getting the word in the space and get 'em all in a frame, pushed them in at account. And one of the number one things I do not agree with in any Dressage I have ever studied. It doesn't matter who it is is this whole note that you've got to push a horse in the contact. Caroline Beste (36m 17s): So when I develop horses to ride, I develop their Movement first. I develop the Movement that I want to ride first, before I ride it. And it's developed in a way that they can collect that Movement there Balanced and Horses Balanced and straight up that equals collection. When Horse is collected, they can carry themselves is called self carriage. They can carry themselves. There's no reason why have to be have to hold them. Now my boss is have to be responsive and like to contact or they need to respect the contact. Caroline Beste (36m 52s): Damn straight. Looking at me, YouTube videos or looking at my backup will get my, my stock and my backup out here, close the door. And that of course the skills that are shut up and you can see the pools. Sometimes he just see me do this and hold the reins. You must teach that to your Horse though. So each use of the hand has to be proceeded by an actual of the upper body. Caroline Beste (37m 25s): Otherwise the writer's a merely influencing the Horses hand. Horses head don't play with the rains when they are, but yield first and then play with the rings did point. Well, this is all according to a bit, being in the horses mouth, I change, I train organically and naturally on the ground first. And then all of that collection and plasticity in the movement and self carriage, undersell it so much easier. Caroline Beste (37m 55s): And when you do have contact is just to rebalance the Horse. You don't want to play with the rains when they are tight, because obviously you are playing with it versus now. And you're giving them mixed messages. The hand should be like a filter or not like a lid or an open. I like that. And open tarp or in the lid screwed on tight. You, it should be like a filter. So what does that mean? It's constantly you're getting information. What do you do? You have to be taught what it is a lot better to risk losing a bit of contact. Caroline Beste (38m 39s): Stop Nuno on the legs. Leg action does not necessarily a need, but the calf, it becomes active as the leg of the rider starts at the hip. It is often enough to just use that damn straight. So a perfect example would be in Wolf film this later on in this year, it would be when I am developing like and loving and my school masters, and I'm developing them in a lay healed or a truck, half pastor or a canter half the class. Caroline Beste (39m 20s): I never used Lei to develop my own courses. I don't teach them. You change the leads you, the Lake either is too the hip. It is through the weight distribution, but before all of that even happened, when I ride, they're already taught this level of maneuverability on the ground. And when you follow teachings, it takes like the standard of school with Riding. Caroline Beste (39m 53s): It can take eight years to develop all, have to develop the upper level movements. And that means that the Horses developed on the ground, the first to perform all those movements before they're introduced to the Movement and then the writer has to learn the Movement and the bits, that whole history of a b***h, it was just to re never to teach. So that person, then it became a way of controlling the worst. And now we have thousands and thousands of this or a reiteration. Caroline Beste (40m 25s): So when you understand the bits purpose, it was just to rebalance the worst. So the old school never taught with a bit and they never introduced Riding until way after the Horse was fully developed. Those are all developed to do a change of lead, simply needs to change on the ground so that when I go to ride that Movement simply in the Movement and a switch or a natural switch have the way this is going to your totally going to influence them. Caroline Beste (41m 2s): Especially when you understand flip fall in your, in the air, it is the easiest way. Yeah, it does get bit complicated. And that's why have you really happy? Horses That love to work with me. And that's what I want to teach. All of you. The dome obviously have the emotional, mental and cause in the soundness, I've never had to wrap my Horses. I've never had a lean Horse banging. Caroline Beste (41m 34s): The Horses sides will be ankles, especially in a city truck, certainly history, the horse's gait. I never, I understand this completely. I never understood why so many dressage instructors. You've got to keep kicking them with your ankles and squeezing them to get their back. You know, if you teach a course how to move correctly as a professional athlete, which takes time and stamina and strength and straightness in Balanced, they will carry themselves a dancer, the rest

of their lives. Caroline Beste (42m 10s): We see it with my horses all the time. We may be out of shape, but we know how to carry ourselves. We just need to get back into shape. And so when the horses engages the hind end, like they're suppose to then everything else will open up, including the top line in the shoulders like me, like I'm doing in front of you, everything will open up, which means the whole back will open up. And the beauty of riding bareback. And I've certainly felt this in my left side saddle, it was with and, my Western, but the beauty of right, the bareback as while you can just feel that it gives you such a deeper level of sensitivity to your horse says movement and it keeps you really humble. Caroline Beste (42m 54s): You can't make stupid mistakes and you can't be greedy. You can't be selfish. You can't take advantage and you shouldn't be riding if you don't have confidence, or if you don't trust your horse. And my whole MasteryMembership Program is designed to develop that confidence in you and to develop the horse in every way and talking about right now, believe it or not is my life's work. So banging on a horse to the side. Yeah. And never did get that because if we're doing that totally interrupted your ability as a rider to maintain your balance and to be quiet, quiet. Caroline Beste (43m 29s): It's horrible that we see it often. Yes. Ma'am. Sabrina Arbogast (43m 29s): Dorenna Jones was wondering what type of bareback pad you use or recommend... Caroline Beste (43m 39s): I think you, yes. You sent me an email, maybe in college. I got that. And you might've responded on, on YouTube. You know, one of my website, Tao of Horsemanship, And go to my shop. You go to what you see the direct pad and I have tried a million and this is a bare back pad I've been using, but the last 10 years or so <inaudible>, pad, go to my website. I get, so I appreciate it. And you who don't even go straight to their website that is pack for so many reasons. Caroline Beste (44m 13s): So many reasons the lakes have a straight so that they can gently absolutely. Now a few closing, but through touching. So that means apply pressure. Oh, you are in a way, you know, hide, you get tense. We have a long relapse slay that just gently touch is the horse. So yes, we do have to create a level of responsiveness and our horse to understand what were activating. Caroline Beste (44m 46s): But when you are, we learning to be a balanced, quiet, effective rider. You have to have quiet aids and you need relaxation because a body where you lose your balance or get tight, maybe it makes common sense. Doesn't so much of a MasteryMembership. It is steering all of my students to develop this, that responsiveness in the trust level of competence, to be able to apply different levels in their Horse not to speak out because they've had so many bad experiences with pressure, but also developing the student, the persons feel and timing through this process and which develops softness in the human in lightness because were trying to develop responsiveness and our Horse instead of just pushing in making and punishing. Caroline Beste (45m 43s): If you're legs are stiff, you risked that your horse becomes hard. And now if your legs, our stiff and tight, intense, wow, you risk that your course group that is hard in your mouth, or do you know what that, how that happens? You do you know what that means for how that happened? If you don't that's OK. I'll answer the answer as for me, cause I, this stuff is deep and if you're a late is or a stiff number at any time we attention in our body, we, we, as a writer create opposition to Movement. Caroline Beste (46m 25s): So of course, sitting on our Horses back to your top line and when we get tight, we are opposition and our body creates opposition in the inability for energy and movement to flow through the horse. Okay. So that's just one thing. It also creates imbalance in a horse because now our horse is being made to go forward. And we use that as an example, we're trying, yeah, we've lost our balancing the tight enough and yet were kicking or clucking in or hitting the Horse to go forward that they're trying to, they are trying to capture R Balanced. Caroline Beste (47m 2s): And so I do get it. Now, if we fix the horse hard in the mouth, it doesn't mean that our cut that is not about our contact and their mouth so much tension follows through their topline. And of course it's, the horse is in balance right through the pine dam when they can catch their Balanced that way they kept you here, like, okay, so they can see it here. We're on balance. It doesn't mean we're cooling on that. Okay. It just means that our, the restriction of Energy in bodies, the horse is feeling and it goes through their bodies are the same way, their top line as their spine goes right through to the pole and the tension is there. Caroline Beste (47m 38s): Okay. It makes sense basically a reflection of where the tension and our body, right? No, I understand. Now when you have a really well balanced Horse and of course it's strong too, then they'll catch themselves back here in the hind end instead of here in the, in, well, we do it in the hands, but when we're more balanced through our core and our balance point, then everything happens like in martial arts and happens in our core and our stomach. But at the beginning, as a writer happens here in our own hands, it happens braces and a leg, but the better you get, you go with that movement and there'll be a nanosecond of, of like a tummy crunch. Caroline Beste (48m 21s): What do you just see? Who's up for a nanosecond. Let it go. And its really cool. It is. So of course it's that's it. I'm going to go home to try it now. Well its kind of like a half halt. So when you so have helped a great, a great way to really train both of you and your horse to be extremely sensitive and responsive to the, to be aware of the shifting of weight. I've learned

that. Just see me. Yeah. Yeah. It was really, Oh lorry. My body's has taken a beating it with all of that because I'm the writer that has used my core and my body, not my hands. Caroline Beste (48m 58s): So that's why I have all the pain that I have. Spurs are a lot less useful. Then one might think a spur that is constantly touching versus sides does not drive the horse for it. But on the contrary, if we'll make the horse sluggish, it makes them know that does make a makes it a lot of things is a horrible hard. When you touch the horse with stiff legs, the Horse will become stiff. Caroline Beste (49m 29s): We talked about that or just like the hands. So the legs have to give them a tape. The areas of the legs are reflected in the Horses. Now there we go. Again wow. How many of us have ever thought how our body position, lack of balance tension that affects the mouth. And yet our instructors are constantly screaming at us to be in and out, right? Yeah. You know, that's another great advantage of MasteryMembership program is not just about teaching you how to develop your horse from start to finish. Caroline Beste (50m 3s): And then all of the gaits and then collection is teaching you how to become a rider. So not just a trainer of your horse, he is teaching you how to become one with your horse in so many ways, but also had a ride. Absolutely how to write. So here's a Nuno on the seat. I do not forget the hips and legs drive the horse forward while the hands simply channel this course through gentle reign. It's so I'm, Again, I'm not a believer in using leg leg as another supporting aid in it is rarely ever used. Caroline Beste (50m 43s): Its mostly used at the very beginning while the horse is still developing their balance and strength and straightness with me as a rider low, once the horse gets to where they can, they're powerful and they're through and they have that level of plasticity in the movement. Then I'm always winning them off a little bit of the leg, not alot. And then if it becomes there really one with me when my body goes, if they follow or my buddy guides, that movement doesn't get any safer than that. Caroline Beste (51m 14s): When a horse is so trusting and tuned in to you to allow you to guide them like that, their focus is totally on you. And that's one of the biggest points that keep driving home me about getting a horse to a point where you're completely safe with them. You know that they're so focused on You in and then you have this full relationship component. Just, it just doesn't get any better than that. I mean, s**t can be going on all around you and you two are lost in your own little world and it really is. Caroline Beste (51m 44s): Its real. And my students have witnessed it with their horses. Some of you guys that are on the MasteryMembership because it was a newly released last year and talking about older students that were studying with me for a while. And then we've been in situations where now the trees are

falling down, you know, horns are blaring and YouTube we're right in that That focus together. We don't even here it be to be taking you. What'd you say bays our Jackie's more time to take care of you. Caroline Beste (52m 16s): Yeah. So the seat is number one. For me, the writer contains the horse with the head of upper body, arms and legs, our aides supporting names as I call them. So your main aid is your seat, your hips in your upper body. Cause your, our body's heavy and in your hands and your legs just gently guide, they are supporting aides. Move your hips towards your hands. We just posted that we are, that looks like with me, riding Sundance very bad, completely bare back and completely bitless bridleless, sorry. Caroline Beste (52m 53s): Bridleless, in an open field. We have that posted on my Facebook. So you guys get to see how I am moving my hips towards my hands. Not holding and moving. Yeah. Keep playing with her in, moving her back towards me. So your hands, maybe your hips towards your hands rather than moving your hands towards your hips, use your hands and legs sparingly and keep the balance through your seat. The rider has to feel the back and follow them out. The focus more on the back then and now he's big on the back. Caroline Beste (53m 27s): And so am I, so am I hope, I hope I can get to read some of this seven pages of interview. So there are some miscellaneous quotes for a horse to be in balance. It has to be relaxed, which is why it must not be confessed. So this is what I refer to as Pilates. Oh this is why I've been doing Pilates with horses from this or this one quote that says it has to be relaxed. Caroline Beste (53m 59s): So like Pilates like yoga or when we stretch, we are lengthening. When we, our lengthening, we are strengthening or none of this can happen and less for the last, the opposite is tension embrace. So when we allow our body's to stretch, we have, we have to breathe into it and we have to relax. When we stretch, we are lengthening and through the lengthening we are strengthening. Caroline Beste (54m 30s): And when this happens through my lunging methods, whether it's the free lunch or lunging online, we were always looking for the horse to become round the best cure, have the top line or a longitudinal stretch. And so that means a horse is not travelling like this. The horse is starting to release and relax its top line, which means it naturally, if you just do what I'm doing, it releases its shoulder area is weathers and then its pole. Then eventually the whole nose and head we'll get very low touch the ground. Caroline Beste (55m 3s): You have seen it in some late YouTube videos and its in a MasteryMembership Course and then the worst is starting to really use a tie and in this way. Okay. So how do you develop a real core balance? Because if it doesn't, it rushes forward and they trip, they speed up. No two aides does not mean to leave the horse on its own, but to keep the contact while doing as little as possible, the rider has to rest on a horse but not withdrawal. Caroline Beste (55m 37s): What about to lose impulsion you ladies have to intervene. Perhaps there's others. So we, each time we lose impulsion or you can push the more you can add some supporting aide like I offer and my courses a little bit more. Energy a little more weight. The horse up. You don't have to use a labor all the time or are you going to get stuck using the leg all the time to learn, to see the aides? Caroline Beste (56m 10s): When the horse is resisting the left rein, try to substitute the left rein aid with the left leg. Hmm. I teach that in MasteryMembership too. As part of your shoulder in one should not learn how to ride by learning the reign aides. But by learning how to feel, feel what you're riding, what does it feel like in your body? What does it feel like underneath? How does it show up in your body? Caroline Beste (56m 40s): So often we're not even body aware. You don't even know cause we are. So we talked to force the horse to go push them careful danger. When talking to writers about impulsion they tend to, when you mentioned lightness to them, they tend to throw the reins away, right? Or what's on his own. Then the name of lightness is not working, but it's just strolling with this. Horse the one that pushes and pulls as a wild person. Caroline Beste (57m 15s): Sorry. So my favorite quotes, I hope they've left an impression on you, man. They short did it with me when I was reading. And do we have any questions? Okay. So this I'm gonna read through this quickly. This is going to be an interview from the Eclectic Horseman and the interviewee actually was Wendy Murdoch and she was interviewing one of his longest apprentices. Caroline Beste (57m 46s): Tina Drummond, before we get to this interview, let me just give you a quick background on who Nuno is Nuno it was 1925 and died February 2nd, 1989. He was a Portuguese equestrian horse trainer and just dressage instructor. And if you guys remember, when I said earlier in this podcast, I was certified in the nation here in Florida, back in 2013, by both a Portuguese instructor who came over and my instructor here in Florida, his teachings have inspired riders and trainers all over the world to adopt the Baroque or classical style of working with the horse and art and art, which goes back hundreds of years and encompasses the fundamentals, which most modern disciplines can be traced back to so much of this, the Baroque in Portuguese and I love working cattle. Caroline Beste (58m 50s): So much of it has to do with working cattle and the horse's ability to maneuver. It just is beautiful. It is a dance , a dance. That's what I love about working equitation when a great, the way his insight and his personal style to us. But if it leaves behind a protege, we were left with a window into the past that can guide us into the future. Nuno Oliveira was an undisputed master of horsemanship not to compete. Caroline

Beste (59m 21s): He practiced his art for himself into is horses. It sounds like maybe it doesn't, it don't show his long time student, Tina Drummond shares her history with the great master you just spent more than 17 years under mr. Alverez Tulia judge. She currently has a private stable in Connecticut, the teen to continue to train horses using the methods she learned from Mr. Oliveira is one of the few people recognized by mr. Oliveira to carry on his teaching. Caroline Beste (59m 52s): It seems to me that she, more than anyone could de-mystify the man in his time, the following is an interview with Ms. Drummond about Mr Oliveira and his methods. And I agree, I think this is a fab and spec in a perfect person to talk about him so far that I've seen question what made Mr. Oliveira a Master answer. Mr. Oliveira is understanding of horses gave him the acute stability. Caroline Beste (1h 0m 25s): Did you take advantage of like what some people call tiny, to me that means reading the Horses thoughts, but No Writers, just a moment has been sensed taken advantage of also for that. What a phenomenal seat. I think there are a very few people that have seen like his Question. What was Mr. Mr. Caroline Beste (1h 0m 55s): Oliveira background? Answer between from mates road and Rhonda, who is one of the last change that Is Royal school Miranda's training can be traced back to Mara, Mara Alba, a French classical Riding to Portugal right At the top. When the grant That is quite se that time of the leg, where in there, sorry, if I'm butchering some of this, it literally came down from France In light of change, changed the Royal family. Caroline Beste (1h 1m 31s): It changed the Royal family. Exclusively. These two fingers taught other chains. Really the method became used by the Portuguese bullfighters. And that is how it works out. And that's worth interpretation too. So basically Nuno was Portuguese and it's starting to rain. No, no, no, no. It's the blower. And he was part of, yeah. Is it gets interesting part of the French classical chaining. Caroline Beste (1h 2m 7s): Next question. Why hasn't there been another, Mr. Oliveira answer. We've seen riders of equal ability and stature, but he was a first to take the French classical route and grafted with Botcher in German school or during school of Dressage Boucher. So he was the first to, to take the classical front right style method and yeah, from buying it graft it successfully with Boucherie as well in the century general a lot. Caroline Beste (1h 2m 37s): Hope both methods it's together in the 19th century, but nobody has any pictures or videos. No, we didn't have a mission of disseminating Boucher. There is also very few writers had the classical French formation right in the one cause of the rigid mindset that the classes are a school formation puts in. Do you not 10 to dabble in Boucher. Right? Awesome. Dressage the latter were afraid of the German teacher. Caroline Beste (1h 3m 26s): Understandable. We saw the very forceful and . Sure. Mr. Oliveira had the classical French formation and the open mindedness to combine it. That said Portuguese that's that last one? No, no. I'm going to say Spanish. Yeah. The which really isn't three decretive to the culture, but he had an open mindedness to combine it with Boucher. That combination along with is innate Riding ability. Is that something that happens very rarely. He is the only purely Latin trainer writer that went on altruism fully committed to it and had the exactitude in knowledge of the classical chaining to back it up there. French. I have also branched off on the 20th century to different breeds of horses the selle francais and the thoroughbred style around the influx of thoroughbreds to used for racing or the friendship also brainstorm in the 20th century. Caroline Beste (1h 4m 1s): As in the sport, in the Calvary, therefore the French adapted the classical French information and style of riding REVOLUTION or fashion Latins needed a horse to come back on the hunches for bullfight. You're a rider still ride in a class for balance because it continue to breed for it in America. There are very few I bare courses or a few people ever feel a classical training. Few people ever feel festival training or breed horse so I don't know. Caroline Beste (1h 4m 36s): No. How many have you guys know what they mean by a Barrick, but any of your you're Iberian horses are specifically talking about your lucid. Tanya is in there and delusions, your radiance can be Iberian to, but specifically the Andalusian, but do your breed. They are bull fighters. That's why you've seen nothing. No, but, and Andalusians and lose a ton. It is right out of your work in equitation, right in your eyes because they are bred have to handle a maneuverability to sit back in the lunches. There were a red wasn't Brett for that. Caroline Beste (1h 5m 7s): No, I do need, yeah. So interesting. I love it. There's a different field too. A horse that has that haunch equilibrium. There is, I think the lipizzaners have to have a supplement that worked for the song and then around this, on the front of it, Is it comparable to that? Of the IB? Or of course they're, Again, there's a different quality right? In the different, if you right. Basically you're going to ride in a more dramatic style. Yes. Then the French question. So the breed of horse has really dictated in many respects method of training, the direction people have taken with their Training. Caroline Beste (1h 5m 42s): Yeah, I answer. Right. So What about Mr. Oliveira was recognizing that an unfortunate he is for us while most people emphasize the haunches, he saw that I bear courses at the hight in the front end to take the contact that the voucher, right. Flection out into the proper point of contact when flexing it and yes. Yeah. Iberian horses or so like in the forehand, because there's their higher built. They have a there with their area there. Not doing it

A hell there, we have a different angle Or to the shoulder so that there are, so its kind of the Friesian Horse do you see stepping away? Caroline Beste (1h 6m 16s): And if you were a number of Calliope yeah. And she paddled that, it wasn't very good. They can fix that. That's correct. They're young still. But she had that region, she was a war lender. So she was Fresian and Andalusian, which is pretty. Yeah, she is very pretty, but weaker in the hind end than the hand delusion because she or her body was more of a region. Gotcha. So like she may have gotten the height in the front, but That's too so many reasons When you say yeah. Caroline Beste (1h 6m 49s): Okay. Yeah. So a building her. Yeah. Tell me her hind end late gymnastics early in your ability to two, We relate from your hind end with it helped her. She was so heavy on that. And you had the panel. Yeah. It doesn't help. Right? She didn't land correctly. Okay. Yeah. Did that with the, nobody wanted to listen to me. We saw where that got us. So these horses have the flexibility in the back. Basically this is the Iberian disconnect In your chest. Caroline Beste (1h 7m 23s): Neck muscles keep a range of motion upward that allows him to accept the vouchers. And then it gives them landing gears. They can be otherwise they can look like runaway sewing machines. I call it paddling. I'm not the only one parked on your haunches. So that's, what's a genius about him. Is he got it? Basically if I were riding horses in his youth that were anglo Arabs cross with loose autonomy. Hmm, wow. Wow. Then when he got, anglo prints and anglo Arab owned by my mother, he told me that he had to really dabble. Caroline Beste (1h 7m 55s): It is and to understand the horse that has all the rigidity is and how problems are the angle era have in order to get him into the classical position, dealing with the top line of contradictions, then the Anglo era would produce. Then he understood a lot about the math releases leading to the NEC releases from her. Paula, you went back to the point, Work to get them in more forward exuberant fashion. He created gaits and landing gears, cadence and attitude that are really different. All of a sudden yourself, or is it that you saw the four word relaxation and fluidity of a beautiful girl. Caroline Beste (1h 8m 29s): You saw the suspension in the front end. This is what made a system so different. Woo. I'm just, I'm dizzy. Just talking about this. I'd love this question. How does the system is so different answer or Mr Oliveira was particularly open-minded for a Latin who was completely focused on his Latin, the Portuguese school in his youth. And he was at first one to dabble and voucher ism. We thought it was a great idea. People were shocked even in a French school, be at a certain vision of Riding. Caroline Beste (1h 8m 60s): I think as a vision, as an end result is going to be a more open minded. It bringing in different systems, Joanne, Mister up. And this is something wonderful. One day there's no, mr. Oliveira System there's only Mister Oliveira and then it has a great quote because it is that he was able to understand and accept like each horse where you need something different, different types of training at different times. And he was able to stay fluid throughout the yeah, No, It isn't that beautiful job of it makes me wanna cry. Caroline Beste (1h 9m 35s): He went from only training. I bury courses and I Barrick manner to a completely different way of thinking about Horses Oh, he would say to me the right moment and do what has to be done to break the contradictions for any of you out there. If this is over your head, I completely understand Yours In reading him and taking these quotes that I've shared and using them as daily mantras. Caroline Beste (1h 10m 6s): And it's like, I always say to my students, you only know what you know, you do. We don't know what she did. More ICAP to leave. Are there any, not just from my courses, but also try to apply. And you went out there and that at the same mindset in a way I know there isn't, there's only one, right? But I kept in mind it and I was always an artist student, all the Wars. And then We listen to, We were happy that I never made my guys' for the most part, do anything than never compromised for them in over the years. Caroline Beste (1h 10m 43s): More and more meaning, Same quotes. They took on more and more of a deeper understanding and meaning what it takes time. I mean, I think if you come into this, this podcast, Are you, You think like this, you're going to pick up and get this it's going to hit home. But if you're new in your coming in and wanting to learn all of this, Just, don't be overwhelmed and don't get scared off. Okay. Just take a deep, pull Yourself up, have a lot of courage and dive, soak it up, right it down and do what you can with it. Caroline Beste (1h 11m 24s): Or be like her paperwork. She's like, can I have this pick that up? I'm like, yeah. But I mean, if you really love the horse and you will, and, and you wanna learn how to develop them, this is the one is what to do. So take your time and enjoy it. Enjoy it. So patina, when I saw the progression in his writing and his personality as a teacher, when you got a sudden influx have exposure to riders in spoke with them, he would always go back to forming a Horses in roundness, in a suspension, particularly in the piaffe and facade. Caroline Beste (1h 12m 1s): He was incredibly good at that system. The, the technique later on in my life, I'm like a good wife. He matures towards the end of his life. He went much more completely. And the Boucher as System because you told me now I wanted to focus. Only on that I asked, why are you articulate since it did not like when you look to that point, he said, I am tired. The end, my career I've played in all of these forces wanted to explore how Hi I can send it books as hard as that is when I solve horse massage in hit his belly with this

hand, like it looks so swamped with a tiny little Course with a weak back. Caroline Beste (1h 12m 45s): And he managed to hit his stellar a few times the size with this at the back of his pastern. And now I have never seen anybody do that with any breed, particularly the week horse but it wasn't exaggeration because all of a sudden, Mister Oliveira we really tight on that. You would not let it go. He was a dog and a bone when he was working on an idea at the same time, when he was training through sequential IE, when it had to form a horse in two years, he would say, okay, today we do this. Caroline Beste (1h 13m 18s): If you was having a resistance, he would go in the bathroom at 4:00 AM and meditate on how to fix it. Then come the particular technique. Then if you needed to read, or you would see him like the book while at the end of the night question. So did, so he did do a lot of studying and reading answer absolutely up, down, up, down. And I started reading a big once. That was quizzing United state's if I hadn't read. So I thought German, how would I possibly read in your mind? Caroline Beste (1h 13m 49s): I thought it would contaminate. I would be contaminated, really a German book. Then when I went to Israel, a bear, I said, what you just did to disengage the horse forward. And the shoulders was time Brett. And he said it, of course, he quoted me to a page number in a book. And I said, wait a minute, your training me in a French system. What does this German stuff is coming in? What is this German? I have this concern that I was going to start pulling on the reigns, franking on the person. If I did anything that you looked at me here as if I had completely lost my mind. Caroline Beste (1h 14m 20s): And he said, stank breath is just Boucher. On the other side of the rind, it is just blood on a different muscle structure and a different equal that bring him on a horse, boom in the sky. That's a brilliant, what is it? Quality? Is it that made this courses so spectacular answer you were in and lightness. It goes beyond the impulsion in the collection. Mr. Oliveira is of course is never looked school. If you asked from a movement like the size, you always right. Got it. So trained, but they never felt school in that they never said in that position that they were expected to hold and could not move a certain way. Caroline Beste (1h 14m 58s): I highlighted this highlighted some other stuff, two right there, question. How did you achieve such likenesses? Horses answer by having such countries all over the horse. So you need the horse's back. We couldn't anticipate the Horses lack of equilibrium, redistribute it, and then be able to focus all this attention, breaking down to simple resistances, such as a short leg or stiffness back then. Independence of fates, basically the question. Caroline Beste (1h 15m 29s): How did he lose his bat answer? You said, you said to me, you use your bath, like an accordion, right? He used it the lower pelvic area. Yeah. When you bring the Honches down the mid drip to live the front, end up too, the hand and the shoulder, we used the hops, depending upon which way he used his back. So, you know, he's in three parts and when you use it laterally, right? No. And side of the other two pivot to the horse, that is a very Portuguese bullfighting stuff. Yeah. Caroline Beste (1h 15m 59s): He is his back in his also working on a invitation. I can relate to that. PO's a leg with an inside shoulder. Yes. Yeah. Sidelight to the inside shoulder. Basically. He used like a class. Yeah. I don't know if any of you guys get that, but I sure do love it. So Sabrina. It will be interesting. Yeah. Mmm. For you. And when I get the new rate have bill and we had a new space, a better space, and I have family after all, it is two years. Caroline Beste (1h 16m 31s): What up is going to show up. Yeah. But you know, if you're thinking of any like Sundance, we didn't really know Smokey is critical by the time. Right. And lays crippled. Now that if you look at, I mean, you know, light bulbs might be going off, like yeah, yeah. No way they move. Yeah. For sure. I am excited. Caroline Beste (1h 17m 1s): So, you know, no, that's an interesting point. You real quick that I am going to do a shout out to all of my students out there who have so much material. You guys telling me that On the MasteryMembership and, and, and overwhelmed because you feel like you're going too slow, but you know that you can't speed up things. You know, look at me, I'm come to a point in my life where I don't even rent. I don't even hesitate taking almost two years off of my Horses It it feels amazing. Caroline Beste (1h 17m 34s): My gears have shifted cause I'm producing what producing all this content to share with all of you. And it's not that it would spend time with my boss is every day coz I do, but its different. And I think the biggest point I want to, I want to drive home is really practice being present and enjoying. Cause before you knew it, the way that program is set up, its so organic things that you are thinking about today that you wish you were going to actually happen before you even utilize it. Caroline Beste (1h 18m 7s): And I don't want you to be so attached to the goal or the end results that you lose sight of how he is. All of this learning is. And then it's really good to Step that and detach in a healthy way, in a different way, especially from your goals. Sabrina Arbogast (1h 18m 26s): Yes. Lydia has a question that he or she wanted to know if you know anything about Kitty Wilkins, she apparently provided thousands of Horses for World War II. She's known as the Horse queen of Idaho. Caroline Beste (1h 18m 38s): No Kitty Wilkins and what was she going to buy it and no I don't. Wow. So she would get the horse to go to war. Wow. Wow. Sabrina Arbogast (1h 18m 45s): That's amazing. That's amazing. Caroline Beste (1h 18m 51s): I think so. Absolutely now I don't but thank you for who she is. So were going to wrap up for you guys. I can always I'll continue tomorrow plus you know, some other stuff to bring up, like I said, well, we'll continue tomorrow with Nuno the rest of it and had a help. Caroline Beste (1h 19m 25s): How to work with challenging Horses hopefully on the dowel page and hopefully through Zoom. So if we can look at beautiful Sabrina so yeah, so I hope you all join us and you share join us tomorrow, who will be focusing on working resolving challenges with our horses, how to go about it. And more specifically, so many of the common challenges out there that I received, I received thousands of these two, these webinars I've done in it. Caroline Beste (1h 20m 4s): And it's like every one of them, it's a common thread. And I want to talk about that tomorrow and then we'll finish up with Nuno and if we have any additional questions for tomorrow, don't hesitate. All right. Thank you everyone. Bye. God bless you. See you tomorrow.