Julianne Williams
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The Joy Unleashed Show empowers and inspires women to reclaim their joy. We provide tools, resources, and connections to help you unlock your true potential. Through engaging conversations, expert insights, and transformative stories, we create a vibrant and inclusive community where women can break free from the limitations that hold them back. I'm Joyologist Coleen Greco, and it is my honor to be your host.
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Let's get right into the show.
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If you feel like you're stuck, if you feel like you don't quite know your purpose or maybe you know it, but you just can't find the path toward it. If you're uncomfortable in your own skin and want to finally master self-love, then we need to talk. I'm Coleen Greco and I'm your Joyologist. I help women just like you to reclaim the joy they feel is missing in their life through mindset coaching and nutrition coaching. Whether you have weight to lose,
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or simply need to get your gut in check, I've got you. We'll work together to retire limiting beliefs. Those are the stories that are keeping you from your purpose. I need you to hear me. Those are the stories that we need to get rid of in order to get you on your path to your purpose. We will work together to get you that life you've always dreamed of. It would be my honor to connect with you. Reach out to me via Instagram @TheColeenGreco.
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or email Coleen@ColeenGreco.com. Let's get you back to the show. Welcome back to another edition of Joy Unleashed. I am your resident joyologist and host for the show Coleen Greco. And today we're gonna talk with Julianne Williams and I'm so excited for this conversation. So without further ado, let's welcome her to the show.
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Hi, hi, Julianne. How are you today? I am doing well. How are you? I'm doing great. It is, uh, you know, the end of a week. I won't say which week in case, uh, you know, try not to talk about time, but, uh, no end of the week, super happy. It's warm outside. All good. Yay. Those are all good things. Which transitions me into, why don't you spend a moment, um,
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telling the audience about yourself, and then we'll just get into a lively discussion. Of course, thank you. My name is Julianne Williams, and I am a certified grief educator. I am a healthcare consultant. I am a four-time bestseller author in some books that I've put out. I have another one coming that I'm very excited about that I'll release probably in the next 40 days. And I'm a reformed executive, so that's me.
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Yeah, I mean, like, you know, small rap sheet there, right? Like minor accomplishments for books is the fifth one head above water. Is that the fifth is head above water. Yes. Okay. Thank you for sharing. And so all of her books are on her website and available on Amazon. So I want to give them a quick plug. Um, they have them up right here. One is called you can, you will. Yes. Very much agree with that philosophy. So that is, uh, you know, I love that one is called.
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Mom magic, moms for change. Tell us a little bit about that. So my backstory is that I lost my husband to suicide about 18 and 1 1 years ago. And that left me with two small children. They were seven and three. So I was thrust from being a married mom, little cute four people nuclear family, into single motherhood. And it's.
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was a very big change. So I wasn't, I didn't have that experience, obviously, until this event in our lives. And I learned that many times, single moms are not treated with the same, self-esteem, they don't get the same sort of props that sort of married moms do. They're not respected in the same way. And so, I sort of am a champion for that now because
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It's hard to be a single mom and you're still a great mom. It doesn't make you lesser. So my chapter in that book is really about knowing that you can enjoy being a single mom. It is hard, but you deserve respect and you should not accept anything less. I feel like you wanted to say credit for some reason and maybe you didn't, but that was the word I wanted to fill in the blank with. Okay, perfect.
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you do deserve a ton of credit and they, you know, single moms deserve a ton of credit. Having worked in corporate, I know it feels like there's more pressure on them than less. I don't feel like, you know, we give them, you know, enough grace to go to the appointments or go to the soccer games or fill in the blank. Is that your feeling as well? So, you know, interestingly, I ran a multi-
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billion dollar company when I was raising my children and traveled a lot. And I was lucky. And that's what I realized is that, you know, I was an executive. And so while I had a very stressful, high pressure job, I also had some freedoms. I quickly realized that people in my organization who were not in my role did not have the same grace that I did. And so you're correct, because if you're working as let's call it a certified nursing assistant, you have it's you know,
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And that shift may or may not coincide with what's happening with your family. That means weekends, holidays, etc. And there should be ways for us to help any parent, any parent be an active participant in whichever way they see fit in the life of their child. Amen to that. I talk a lot about helping women become the architects of their life. For some reason we feel this need, um,
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for permission, that it's okay to take that leap and do your own thing. You did, you were a corporate executive, and at some point made a shift. What was the driving force behind that? Did you just know that that was your birthright? Because there are lots of people that don't, and I would love for you to inspire them to take a look at their opportunities differently, and really invest in themselves. Because for many of them,
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There's so much more out there for them if they just take that first step. So the one thing I learned working in a high level corporate position as the president of a very large company is that I worked with a lot of men and men can teach us a lot as women in terms of things like scarcity, which we live in as women. We think there's not enough for all of us, but there is. But they also taught me things like
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You don't have to apologize. You can actually ask for money. You can ask for a raise. You can ask for a bonus for extraordinary performance. Then they actually taught me, too, that it's normal for people to go to their kids' events and not ask permission and not feel like it's weird. And when a man does it, when a man goes to the Friday afternoon school play, they're celebrated. Oh, look at that, Dad. And that is wonderful.
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It's not important, but what I am saying is for women, we feel as though it's taking away from something else. And yes, there is a give and take for everything. However, what I learned from men is they're celebrated when they do those things. We should be too. That means we have to take that step. And I learned that very, very quickly that my performance would show
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even if I went to the Friday afternoon play. And you might even overperform because you took that time to be with your family. Right. And you found that balance. And I can remember when I so I have a 17 year old and a 20 year old, almost 20, like pushing that off for as long as I know. It's heartbreaking. But I used to hide the fact that I had kids. I would never talk about my kids at work.
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ever, ever, ever, ever. It was like this unspoken rule that I can do it all, I can manage it all, I can work 25 hours a day, eight days a week, still have my kids do the things they were supposed to do on time, still have food on the table. And that is just not a reality. And I do think there is a bit of a shift happening. But wow, was that a terrible time in my life that it-
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there was a lot I missed. And I think eventually I got to the point where I laid down those boundaries saying, I'm going to the thing. And if that is a problem for you, I don't think we're a match. And that's okay. And my right. I agree. I look at the positions that we have held in our lives and the reality is that we...
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can do it. So anybody who is in a job that allows them to do that, meaning you take that step to say, I am going to make sure that I participate in the things in my life, whether it be your children, your spouse, your parents, because some of us get sandwiched in between that, that you take that time. There are a number of positions, like I mentioned, that they don't have the
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flexibility that some of us have. So I think as employers, and it sounds weird because I'm an executive thinker, but I think that we do need to find ways to allow people who have inflexible schedules to have a little bit of flexibility around some of these events. Because also what I see happening is people then just call in sick and do other things.
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and managing your workforce is more difficult. But to your point, when we show others that are in our organization that their life is important to us as well, and their children are important to us as well, or their parents, I do believe that people rise up to the occasion and that you have a more loyal and committed person in your organization. And then that person has the opportunity to have a life that is more joyful. Completely.
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which segues into one of my favorite questions. How do you define joy or what does joy mean to you?
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That is a very interesting question. For me, joy is knowing, having that moment of contentment in a place of gratefulness. So last night, a girlfriend was over, and we were watching some crazy shows. And my son has moved back home to finish college.
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and he came downstairs and I just got to laugh and talk with him about nothing special. That was a moment of pure joy for me. I can completely relate. I have a child that you know isn't as much of a sharer as the other one and keeps a lot of things in. But when I see him be goofy with the dogs or his brother or my husband or myself, it just fills up your heart.
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It's just like one of those moments that, you know, you can't take a picture of, you can't necessarily journal as a reminder, but it's locked in the vault here, you know, forever. And so I love that you had that moment. And you're right. It's like that overwhelming sense of like peace. You're in the right place. Everything is in flow. And, um, you know, even if you're not having the greatest of days or bigger things are going on in your life,
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you can still find that peace and that contentment in the smallest of moments. I love that you shared that. Well, and to your point, when I have my clients for grief education, the one thing that I encourage them to do is to find one thing a day that will bring them a moment of joy, because it does spread in your life. When you
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begin to experience it, especially when you're grieving, that hope has been taken away. And if you can have a few minutes of joy, you realize that there is going to be a future that is different than the present. So I really encourage that. And we'd sometimes have to find joy. That's the other thing that I'll say about, what do I think joy is, is we have to find it. We have to seek what makes us happy. And you can't force it.
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but you can put yourself in situations where you're likely to experience. Like for me, going to a concert, I love concerts, I love music. I'm joyful when I'm at a concert. So I see that if I'm able. One of the examples I use with people, because sometimes as a joyologist, it's like, oh, you live in a bubble, you're always happy. No, not true. I have problems, lots of them. I can list them if you want, right?
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It's like when I go out to walk the dogs in the morning. Now, you know I'm in Boston. So it was yesterday, I think it was 25 degrees out. Oh, that's chilly. Right, it's like, oh, right. But I'm out there, I'm watching the dogs walk around, they're being silly, they're chasing after something ridiculous. And it's adorable and I can find the joy in that. Or I could focus my mind on the fact that I'm freezing and I don't wanna be out here and how much longer is this gonna take? Right.
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It's not that you're living this alternative reality. It's that you're choosing to give your attention and your energy towards something that fills you up rather than depletes you. Agreed, and it is the mind shift. And I know people talk a lot about that these days, but it is a choice. We do have to choose to be happy. And just as after I lost my husband, obviously I had a few years that were very, very difficult.
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wouldn't wish my experience on anyone. However, what I did learn is that if I was going to have a life and find happiness and joy, that it was going to be up to me. It wasn't anybody else's job. Well, and let's give you extra grace. You had, I think there were seven in three at the time. Correct. Yes. So not only did you have, you know,
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a horrific experience where you lost your husband, but you have these babies that are now completely dependent upon you, you know, for nourishment, for every, for everyday. And grieving and grieving the loss of their dad. Right. You know, right. So you know, how did you find your way through those, those early days?
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my faith in Jesus and knowing that there is a way through everything through my faith is helpful. I have an incredible family, very lovely network of friends who took really good care of me and my work gave me purpose because you have to find a purpose when you are in those places or I believe that.
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you lose yourself. And so part of my purpose, and one thing that really kept me going is I did have to get up every day and take care of my children. I couldn't stay in bed. I couldn't just hole up in my room. So that did get me up every day. And then my work really gave me, that was a time when I felt like things were okay and normal for at least a few hours every day.
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where I felt successful. And so that was very, very helpful. And then just grief in general, you just have to fill it and it's painful, but you don't get on the other side if you don't take the time to work through what's happening in your mind and in your body. How has that helped your own healing? You know, now being, you know, serving as a grief
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let's not pretend you only do one thing. In going over your bio several times now, I'm like, I don't know that she's ever really done one thing. You know, you have high capacity, but in that role, you know, that must help to some extent with your own healing. Is that fair to say? I think when we help other people and when we become a part of someone else's story,
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I believe we do heal. We have the opportunity to share things that were healthy and unhealthy. And we also have the opportunity to see someone grow. And I believe that that is good for us. It also makes us reflect on things that we may not have thought through at certain times, or we weren't able to,
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absorb everything at one time when it comes to grief, we have to integrate things over time. So I agree that it is helpful to help people heal in for your own healing process and and just for your own mental health. Yeah, you do have to make sure that you don't take on other people's grief, because that's a very easy thing to do for some of us.
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Yeah, I got sucked into a vortex recently, you know, that big spiral down and swear I didn't see it coming. And I thought I was being a really supportive friend. And then she completely lashed out at me and just ripped me to shreds when I was doing something helpful and thought, okay, I walked right into this lion's den.
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I need to get myself out. But it was a teachable moment because I didn't see it coming or I didn't want to see it coming. I thought I was being really helpful. But it has now taught me, and I knew to some extent, but this has really taught me like, you have to keep the energy here. You can't put it in. And there is a way to create space for people where they can share with you, but you don't have to take it on or fix it.
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you can't fix it. And so part of what you are doing when you're supporting someone is just being there. There's really not a lot you have to say. All you have to do is be present and let them talk or cry or sit or however it is that they need to express themselves at that moment. And you don't have to take that on. As a matter of fact, it's better if you don't. You can hold that space as you said, by just being present.
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You don't have to do one thing. And you're right, it's actually more effective if they get themselves there on their own rather than the way that I might do it. So any number of reasons, you're absolutely right.
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It's something we, you know, it's something I learned in grief, which was people's time and attention meant more than things they could do for me. Just knowing I wasn't alone. Yes. Well, I want to give extra attention to your other books since I did touch on a couple of them. I want to make sure I promote them all. Tell me a little bit more about Unleash Her. That is a...
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wonderful title and head above water, a journey of emerging hope. That one has me captivated too. Can you give us some, some nuggets that maybe get people a little thirsty for more? Sure. So head above water is actually my story. It's the story of the loss of my husband on the cover, which is behind me is my daughter. And she was seven when she lost her dad. So I just tell my story and talk about,
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how I did get through. And hopefully that would encourage someone in a place that feels very dark. It goes through some of the principles that I realized that I put into place without knowing. Again, having such a beautiful network of people that God had given me, that definitely made it easier. Unleashed Her is an anthology I wrote a chapter in. And I actually wrote
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some things in that chapter that even my parents didn't know about my grief process. And so it's painful, but it was something I felt I needed to share because...
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I want people to understand that even in your darkest moment, there is a ray or just a spot of light that can be found. And so I talked about how I moved from significant and severe depression to a place where it doesn't mean I don't grieve and I'm not sad. I still miss my husband. It's going to be 19 years in June. I still miss him, but I can still live a life.
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That's really my story in that book. And then most excitingly, I have a book coming out, like I was saying, in the next 40-ish days. It's called Griefquake. And I take the analogy of an earthquake, and I compare it to grief, and I put my story in there, but also try to give people something to anchor to with those emotions. And I'll be releasing that book probably right after New Year's. After New Year's, OK. Just make a note of that. Griefquake. Yeah.
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I mean, I was having a conversation with somebody the other day and I said, for like, for some reason, vulnerability is seen as a weakness. And I caveated that by saying, I don't think it's a weakness. I'm constantly putting my story out there, my stories out there. You know, you know that my son attempted suicide and thankfully was unsuccessful. Yes. But that has helped so many people feel like, wow, it's not just me.
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and there was nothing I could have done to prevent it. These things happened the way that they were supposed to happen. And that, you know, took me a little time to understand. But why do you think there is the stigma around vulnerability? Because by you staying quiet and not writing these books and not, you know, going on podcasts and having your own show and all the things that you do to make sure that your story is told because it's supporting other people.
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What is that, what did we learn maybe as children or somewhere in society to tell us that this is wrong? Cause it's, it couldn't be more right.
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That's such a good point. I will tell you that while people knew that my husband took his life and that I was very sad, I did very quickly go into the mode of I'm fine. I'm healed, I'm fine. See, I can get through anything. Look it, I'm a professional. These kids, I'm perfect. You know what I'm saying. Say I got it. I wanted to downplay.
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what I was going through to other people because I wanted to appear strong. I wanted to show them that I could make it. And I did, however, I didn't really share my story until 2021, in depth. Primarily, probably because I was so busy raising my kids.
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And I had to financially recover after my husband passed away. I got all of about $10,000 of life insurance. And so it was just not a good situation. And it actually got even worse. But that's all in my book. And it was very, I mean, I'll say that my father-in-law actually sued me for custody of my children, for part-time custody of my children. And.
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And at a time when I didn't have a penny, truly, I couldn't afford to pay for his funeral the day he died. So I had a very rough four years. And so I really did spend a lot of time putting a face on that was very different than what was happening in my mind and in my body.
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I may have done it some for my children because I wanted to be a pillar for them. But I do think that mental health, and that's what that vulnerability is really about, is not a respected illness in our society. Because when we're being vulnerable, people begin to label us. And we get labeled usually in a way that is derogatory.
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So being vulnerable puts you in a position, in my opinion, that you are less than. And so we don't want to share and become less than. We've made not being 100% successful every minute of every day a failure. And that's just not how life works. I mean, I just say like a strong amen to that because one of the things that
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know, when you said that about your father-in-law, it takes my breath away, really angers me, makes me really sad, all the feelings, because that's somebody that's supposed to be in your circle, right? As, now I don't know him or anything about him, but as, by relation, he's supposed to be in that inner circle that helps to protect you and lift you up when you're down, not attack you. So I can't blame you for one moment for having to appear strong.
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because the inner circle wasn't protecting you. You had people protecting you, but the ones that were supposed to be there weren't, and that's not okay. And so I can't blame you for a minute, and I actually think I probably would have done the same thing. I got it. Because I think it also gives you a little bit of space to just try to figure out, where can I start to let those walls down and let people in? Because at the beginning,
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And I talk about this a lot in my coaching practices. Like in the beginning, excitement isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. The thing, the trauma just happened, the tragedy just happened, so everybody jumps and they want to know what they can do. The excitement starts to wear off. People go back to their daily lives. And it's like, I'm still here grieving and need help. It takes a long time for that to kind of peter out and.
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find its space. And so I hope that you applaud all your efforts because that's what you had to do. You were in survival mode and you did everything you had to do to make sure those kids were safe and so were you. So huge applause to you for that. Oh, thank you. The difficult things have taught me a lot and there are a lot of circumstances in that particular situation.
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And I know they were all led by grief. I have actually, I'm not angry about it anymore. I am sad that my children don't have a relationship. I'm also sad that they were put through a lot of additional trauma that they did not need. So small, eight and four at that time. And it went on for two, three years. And it really impacted them.
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That's I'm not angry anymore. It took me a while to get there, but I learned forgiveness is for you. And so while I do have a boundary about a relationship with that particular person, I don't hold anger. I just try now to use it as an experience that kind of pulls me forward.
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And it took me a bit to get there, I'm going to tell you. But again, if I let that hang on in a different way, that is how people steal your joy, is when you give them control. I was just going to say that. My brother-in-law is a psychologist or a child psychologist. I can never remember which. Actually, I think he's retired now. But he used to say this phrase that every so often, people say something and you'll never let it go.
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this one I loved, he said, it is far worse to be them than be around them. And so how can you look at that person that was torturing you with compassion saying, what is going on in their life? This is the way that they feel they have to deal with this. My learning moment is to never do that to anyone else, have compassion. And so I, again, I applaud you. I think that's amazing. And that's how you reclaim your joy is you, you don't
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absorb it, you don't take it in. And, you know, there's always the path through isn't always like a straight line, but there is always a path through and you found it and you got to the other side. And I believe faith as well has 100% to do with that. Yeah, it's all about the journey. It's all about the journey. It's all about the journey. And so what brings you joy these days?
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Wow, eating. I love food and wine. You love softballs, right? What brings you joy? Well, you know. I love food and wine. And really spending time with my kids. I feel right now I have had the opportunity to step away from my corporate existence for a little bit. It's been almost two years. And I have appreciated God giving me time back with my children, because I did have to travel. I was.
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in a financial situation that I had very few options. And so I had to find the most efficient way to make a living, meaning the most money that I could. And so we made a lot of sacrifices as a family for me to be able to do that. And so now there are 26 and 22, and I get to spend time with them and have fun with them. And I feel God's given me time back. And it is really, this last few years has been very joyful to really settle down
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my life from traveling to reintegrate into the places that I know do bring me joy, family, friends, and really be in the moment of that, which I think is really where the joy comes from. I feel like that's the jackpot right there. What are some of the things, because I do ask this question too pretty often, because I feel like there are lots of people that don't have that daily regimen.
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to set themselves up for success and things that bring them joy. What are the two or three or four practices that you employ every day to make sure you've set yourself up on a path to have the best possible day? What's your regimen? So, I'm not a great morning person, just so everybody knows. So the morning's for me, I'm not going to be that person that gets up. Sorry, it's what? What is it? Like nine there now? It's nine.
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8-4, well, that's, I mean, 8 o'clock is reasonable. What I mean is I'm not the 5 a.m. person, you know, I'll do it, but you know, I'm more of the 6 37 person. Yeah. So that means that, you know, usually I am out and going before eight, you know, around eight. And so I don't spend a lot of time in the morning necessarily, you know, doing all this stuff that other people do, like meditate and run and I used to, not anymore.
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So now actually what I it is praying I the first thing I do when I wake up is I do pray and I give thanks to God for another day because I have also lost a number of my friends and family in the last five years. And so I realized every day is such a gift and i'm so grateful to have another chance every day so my my prayers I that's how I start my morning.
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And I would say I do try to find some time every day to do something that I enjoy. And that means maybe I just want to sit down and watch the news, which I know is depressing. But it's just the act of sitting down for a moment. So I try to do something every day that just lets me relax for even if it's five minutes. It changes your perspective. And then the last thing.
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I would say that I do is I try to spend time with somebody that I love, even if it's a few minutes on the phone or even if it's texting, even though I don't love texting because of my age, I think, because it's hard to get the emotion, but really just to spend time with someone that I can connect with. I love it. I absolutely love it. For me.
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Same thing. I love journaling though, but I can't do it first thing in the morning. The boys are in and out of the kitchen and making all kinds of noise. The dogs, my husband's still here, things like that. Once they're gone and wherever they need to be and the house is quiet again, that's when I can get that done. So first thing in the morning is a workout because I always say I work out before my excuses wake up. Yes, yes, yes.
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But journaling, meditation, listening to some nice calm music, those are some of my cornerstones to just feel like I've got this. And sometimes when I don't feel like meditating, it's mindless TV that just takes me away to another world, preferably on a beach somewhere. Exactly. But the point is, is that it's just a give, you know, whatever you're doing, you don't have to judge. Right.
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I mean, obviously we're talking about things that are not unhealthy. Like you're not doing drugs or things like that, that are not good for you. But if you just, like you said, it's okay to watch mindless TV and not say, wow, I just wasted 30 minutes. No, you didn't. You just took a vacation. And so I think, you know, not having to label what we're doing.
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is something that allows that to then become joyful. I love it. That's awesome. So Julianne, where would you like to point people to? I have your Instagram, but maybe tell people where they can find you. I'm also on Facebook, Julianne Williams, and it is Brave Enough Community. And that's because my saying in my book with my daughter is that you are brave enough in every moment. And you only have to be brave enough for a moment to keep going.
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You don't have to be brave enough for tomorrow right now. You just have to be brave enough for right now, for that minute. And so that's my thing of my coaching that I offer people, you know, informally. So that's, you can find me on Instagram and on Facebook. And then I have a show called Step Into Your Life and a podcast. And so the podcast is on everything you can listen to it on Spotify and so on and so forth.
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But my show is on Phoenix TV, which is on Apple Roku and Fire. And it's in 127 countries. But you can also see my shows now on YouTube if you don't want to go onto Phoenix TV. And it's my channel, which is Brave Enough Community. Or Brave Enough is the tag. And then it's Renew, Recreate, Recover You. It's kind of long. But it is there. So if you just remember Brave Enough, you can find me.
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Yeah, and I think your number one episode had like a joyologist on there or you know, it's the funniest thing I had this really cool woman on there named Coleen who taught me how to integrate joy into my life. So watch me go online I Love it. I've loved this conversation. Thank you so much And we will have all of the links to all of the places you can be found
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and your books, of course, because I really, first of all, this cover for Head Above Water is just gorgeous. And I can't wait to hear or read about Griefquake. So really looking forward to that. Thank you so much for being on and- Thank you for having me. Thank you. I feel joyful every time I talk to you.
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This is the complex.
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I just lost my train of thought. I'm gonna have to edit that out. That was another episode of Joy Unleashed. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel so you never miss an episode.
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Thank you for tuning in to Joy Unleashed. As always, it's my honor to be your host and joyologist, Coleen Greco. Follow me @TheColeenGreco on Instagram for daily motivation and inspiration. And don't forget to leave my show, a review on Apple podcasts. Until next time sisters.
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The Joy Unleashed Show empowers and inspires women to reclaim their joy. We provide tools, resources, and connections to help you unlock your true potential. Through engaging conversations, expert insights, and transformative stories, we create a vibrant and inclusive community where women can break free from the limitations that hold them back. I'm Joyologist Coleen Greco, and it is my honor to be your host.
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Let's get right into the show.
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If you feel like you're stuck, if you feel like you don't quite know your purpose or maybe you know it, but you just can't find the path toward it. If you're uncomfortable in your own skin and want to finally master self-love, then we need to talk. I'm Coleen Greco and I'm your Joyologist. I help women just like you to reclaim the joy they feel is missing in their life through mindset coaching and nutrition coaching. Whether you have weight to lose,
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or simply need to get your gut in check, I've got you. We'll work together to retire limiting beliefs. Those are the stories that are keeping you from your purpose. I need you to hear me. Those are the stories that we need to get rid of in order to get you on your path to your purpose. We will work together to get you that life you've always dreamed of. It would be my honor to connect with you. Reach out to me via Instagram @TheColeenGreco.
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or email Coleen@ColeenGreco.com. Let's get you back to the show. Welcome back to another edition of Joy Unleashed. I am your resident joyologist and host for the show Coleen Greco. And today we're gonna talk with Julianne Williams and I'm so excited for this conversation. So without further ado, let's welcome her to the show.
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Hi, hi, Julianne. How are you today? I am doing well. How are you? I'm doing great. It is, uh, you know, the end of a week. I won't say which week in case, uh, you know, try not to talk about time, but, uh, no end of the week, super happy. It's warm outside. All good. Yay. Those are all good things. Which transitions me into, why don't you spend a moment, um,
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telling the audience about yourself, and then we'll just get into a lively discussion. Of course, thank you. My name is Julianne Williams, and I am a certified grief educator. I am a healthcare consultant. I am a four-time bestseller author in some books that I've put out. I have another one coming that I'm very excited about that I'll release probably in the next 40 days. And I'm a reformed executive, so that's me.
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Yeah, I mean, like, you know, small rap sheet there, right? Like minor accomplishments for books is the fifth one head above water. Is that the fifth is head above water. Yes. Okay. Thank you for sharing. And so all of her books are on her website and available on Amazon. So I want to give them a quick plug. Um, they have them up right here. One is called you can, you will. Yes. Very much agree with that philosophy. So that is, uh, you know, I love that one is called.
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Mom magic, moms for change. Tell us a little bit about that. So my backstory is that I lost my husband to suicide about 18 and 1 1 years ago. And that left me with two small children. They were seven and three. So I was thrust from being a married mom, little cute four people nuclear family, into single motherhood. And it's.
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was a very big change. So I wasn't, I didn't have that experience, obviously, until this event in our lives. And I learned that many times, single moms are not treated with the same, self-esteem, they don't get the same sort of props that sort of married moms do. They're not respected in the same way. And so, I sort of am a champion for that now because
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It's hard to be a single mom and you're still a great mom. It doesn't make you lesser. So my chapter in that book is really about knowing that you can enjoy being a single mom. It is hard, but you deserve respect and you should not accept anything less. I feel like you wanted to say credit for some reason and maybe you didn't, but that was the word I wanted to fill in the blank with. Okay, perfect.
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you do deserve a ton of credit and they, you know, single moms deserve a ton of credit. Having worked in corporate, I know it feels like there's more pressure on them than less. I don't feel like, you know, we give them, you know, enough grace to go to the appointments or go to the soccer games or fill in the blank. Is that your feeling as well? So, you know, interestingly, I ran a multi-
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billion dollar company when I was raising my children and traveled a lot. And I was lucky. And that's what I realized is that, you know, I was an executive. And so while I had a very stressful, high pressure job, I also had some freedoms. I quickly realized that people in my organization who were not in my role did not have the same grace that I did. And so you're correct, because if you're working as let's call it a certified nursing assistant, you have it's you know,
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And that shift may or may not coincide with what's happening with your family. That means weekends, holidays, etc. And there should be ways for us to help any parent, any parent be an active participant in whichever way they see fit in the life of their child. Amen to that. I talk a lot about helping women become the architects of their life. For some reason we feel this need, um,
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for permission, that it's okay to take that leap and do your own thing. You did, you were a corporate executive, and at some point made a shift. What was the driving force behind that? Did you just know that that was your birthright? Because there are lots of people that don't, and I would love for you to inspire them to take a look at their opportunities differently, and really invest in themselves. Because for many of them,
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There's so much more out there for them if they just take that first step. So the one thing I learned working in a high level corporate position as the president of a very large company is that I worked with a lot of men and men can teach us a lot as women in terms of things like scarcity, which we live in as women. We think there's not enough for all of us, but there is. But they also taught me things like
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You don't have to apologize. You can actually ask for money. You can ask for a raise. You can ask for a bonus for extraordinary performance. Then they actually taught me, too, that it's normal for people to go to their kids' events and not ask permission and not feel like it's weird. And when a man does it, when a man goes to the Friday afternoon school play, they're celebrated. Oh, look at that, Dad. And that is wonderful.
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It's not important, but what I am saying is for women, we feel as though it's taking away from something else. And yes, there is a give and take for everything. However, what I learned from men is they're celebrated when they do those things. We should be too. That means we have to take that step. And I learned that very, very quickly that my performance would show
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even if I went to the Friday afternoon play. And you might even overperform because you took that time to be with your family. Right. And you found that balance. And I can remember when I so I have a 17 year old and a 20 year old, almost 20, like pushing that off for as long as I know. It's heartbreaking. But I used to hide the fact that I had kids. I would never talk about my kids at work.
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ever, ever, ever, ever. It was like this unspoken rule that I can do it all, I can manage it all, I can work 25 hours a day, eight days a week, still have my kids do the things they were supposed to do on time, still have food on the table. And that is just not a reality. And I do think there is a bit of a shift happening. But wow, was that a terrible time in my life that it-
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there was a lot I missed. And I think eventually I got to the point where I laid down those boundaries saying, I'm going to the thing. And if that is a problem for you, I don't think we're a match. And that's okay. And my right. I agree. I look at the positions that we have held in our lives and the reality is that we...
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can do it. So anybody who is in a job that allows them to do that, meaning you take that step to say, I am going to make sure that I participate in the things in my life, whether it be your children, your spouse, your parents, because some of us get sandwiched in between that, that you take that time. There are a number of positions, like I mentioned, that they don't have the
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flexibility that some of us have. So I think as employers, and it sounds weird because I'm an executive thinker, but I think that we do need to find ways to allow people who have inflexible schedules to have a little bit of flexibility around some of these events. Because also what I see happening is people then just call in sick and do other things.
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and managing your workforce is more difficult. But to your point, when we show others that are in our organization that their life is important to us as well, and their children are important to us as well, or their parents, I do believe that people rise up to the occasion and that you have a more loyal and committed person in your organization. And then that person has the opportunity to have a life that is more joyful. Completely.
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which segues into one of my favorite questions. How do you define joy or what does joy mean to you?
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That is a very interesting question. For me, joy is knowing, having that moment of contentment in a place of gratefulness. So last night, a girlfriend was over, and we were watching some crazy shows. And my son has moved back home to finish college.
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and he came downstairs and I just got to laugh and talk with him about nothing special. That was a moment of pure joy for me. I can completely relate. I have a child that you know isn't as much of a sharer as the other one and keeps a lot of things in. But when I see him be goofy with the dogs or his brother or my husband or myself, it just fills up your heart.
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It's just like one of those moments that, you know, you can't take a picture of, you can't necessarily journal as a reminder, but it's locked in the vault here, you know, forever. And so I love that you had that moment. And you're right. It's like that overwhelming sense of like peace. You're in the right place. Everything is in flow. And, um, you know, even if you're not having the greatest of days or bigger things are going on in your life,
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you can still find that peace and that contentment in the smallest of moments. I love that you shared that. Well, and to your point, when I have my clients for grief education, the one thing that I encourage them to do is to find one thing a day that will bring them a moment of joy, because it does spread in your life. When you
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begin to experience it, especially when you're grieving, that hope has been taken away. And if you can have a few minutes of joy, you realize that there is going to be a future that is different than the present. So I really encourage that. And we'd sometimes have to find joy. That's the other thing that I'll say about, what do I think joy is, is we have to find it. We have to seek what makes us happy. And you can't force it.
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but you can put yourself in situations where you're likely to experience. Like for me, going to a concert, I love concerts, I love music. I'm joyful when I'm at a concert. So I see that if I'm able. One of the examples I use with people, because sometimes as a joyologist, it's like, oh, you live in a bubble, you're always happy. No, not true. I have problems, lots of them. I can list them if you want, right?
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It's like when I go out to walk the dogs in the morning. Now, you know I'm in Boston. So it was yesterday, I think it was 25 degrees out. Oh, that's chilly. Right, it's like, oh, right. But I'm out there, I'm watching the dogs walk around, they're being silly, they're chasing after something ridiculous. And it's adorable and I can find the joy in that. Or I could focus my mind on the fact that I'm freezing and I don't wanna be out here and how much longer is this gonna take? Right.
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It's not that you're living this alternative reality. It's that you're choosing to give your attention and your energy towards something that fills you up rather than depletes you. Agreed, and it is the mind shift. And I know people talk a lot about that these days, but it is a choice. We do have to choose to be happy. And just as after I lost my husband, obviously I had a few years that were very, very difficult.
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wouldn't wish my experience on anyone. However, what I did learn is that if I was going to have a life and find happiness and joy, that it was going to be up to me. It wasn't anybody else's job. Well, and let's give you extra grace. You had, I think there were seven in three at the time. Correct. Yes. So not only did you have, you know,
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a horrific experience where you lost your husband, but you have these babies that are now completely dependent upon you, you know, for nourishment, for every, for everyday. And grieving and grieving the loss of their dad. Right. You know, right. So you know, how did you find your way through those, those early days?
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my faith in Jesus and knowing that there is a way through everything through my faith is helpful. I have an incredible family, very lovely network of friends who took really good care of me and my work gave me purpose because you have to find a purpose when you are in those places or I believe that.
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you lose yourself. And so part of my purpose, and one thing that really kept me going is I did have to get up every day and take care of my children. I couldn't stay in bed. I couldn't just hole up in my room. So that did get me up every day. And then my work really gave me, that was a time when I felt like things were okay and normal for at least a few hours every day.
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where I felt successful. And so that was very, very helpful. And then just grief in general, you just have to fill it and it's painful, but you don't get on the other side if you don't take the time to work through what's happening in your mind and in your body. How has that helped your own healing? You know, now being, you know, serving as a grief
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let's not pretend you only do one thing. In going over your bio several times now, I'm like, I don't know that she's ever really done one thing. You know, you have high capacity, but in that role, you know, that must help to some extent with your own healing. Is that fair to say? I think when we help other people and when we become a part of someone else's story,
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I believe we do heal. We have the opportunity to share things that were healthy and unhealthy. And we also have the opportunity to see someone grow. And I believe that that is good for us. It also makes us reflect on things that we may not have thought through at certain times, or we weren't able to,
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absorb everything at one time when it comes to grief, we have to integrate things over time. So I agree that it is helpful to help people heal in for your own healing process and and just for your own mental health. Yeah, you do have to make sure that you don't take on other people's grief, because that's a very easy thing to do for some of us.
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Yeah, I got sucked into a vortex recently, you know, that big spiral down and swear I didn't see it coming. And I thought I was being a really supportive friend. And then she completely lashed out at me and just ripped me to shreds when I was doing something helpful and thought, okay, I walked right into this lion's den.
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I need to get myself out. But it was a teachable moment because I didn't see it coming or I didn't want to see it coming. I thought I was being really helpful. But it has now taught me, and I knew to some extent, but this has really taught me like, you have to keep the energy here. You can't put it in. And there is a way to create space for people where they can share with you, but you don't have to take it on or fix it.
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you can't fix it. And so part of what you are doing when you're supporting someone is just being there. There's really not a lot you have to say. All you have to do is be present and let them talk or cry or sit or however it is that they need to express themselves at that moment. And you don't have to take that on. As a matter of fact, it's better if you don't. You can hold that space as you said, by just being present.
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You don't have to do one thing. And you're right, it's actually more effective if they get themselves there on their own rather than the way that I might do it. So any number of reasons, you're absolutely right.
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It's something we, you know, it's something I learned in grief, which was people's time and attention meant more than things they could do for me. Just knowing I wasn't alone. Yes. Well, I want to give extra attention to your other books since I did touch on a couple of them. I want to make sure I promote them all. Tell me a little bit more about Unleash Her. That is a...
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wonderful title and head above water, a journey of emerging hope. That one has me captivated too. Can you give us some, some nuggets that maybe get people a little thirsty for more? Sure. So head above water is actually my story. It's the story of the loss of my husband on the cover, which is behind me is my daughter. And she was seven when she lost her dad. So I just tell my story and talk about,
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how I did get through. And hopefully that would encourage someone in a place that feels very dark. It goes through some of the principles that I realized that I put into place without knowing. Again, having such a beautiful network of people that God had given me, that definitely made it easier. Unleashed Her is an anthology I wrote a chapter in. And I actually wrote
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some things in that chapter that even my parents didn't know about my grief process. And so it's painful, but it was something I felt I needed to share because...
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I want people to understand that even in your darkest moment, there is a ray or just a spot of light that can be found. And so I talked about how I moved from significant and severe depression to a place where it doesn't mean I don't grieve and I'm not sad. I still miss my husband. It's going to be 19 years in June. I still miss him, but I can still live a life.
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That's really my story in that book. And then most excitingly, I have a book coming out, like I was saying, in the next 40-ish days. It's called Griefquake. And I take the analogy of an earthquake, and I compare it to grief, and I put my story in there, but also try to give people something to anchor to with those emotions. And I'll be releasing that book probably right after New Year's. After New Year's, OK. Just make a note of that. Griefquake. Yeah.
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I mean, I was having a conversation with somebody the other day and I said, for like, for some reason, vulnerability is seen as a weakness. And I caveated that by saying, I don't think it's a weakness. I'm constantly putting my story out there, my stories out there. You know, you know that my son attempted suicide and thankfully was unsuccessful. Yes. But that has helped so many people feel like, wow, it's not just me.
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and there was nothing I could have done to prevent it. These things happened the way that they were supposed to happen. And that, you know, took me a little time to understand. But why do you think there is the stigma around vulnerability? Because by you staying quiet and not writing these books and not, you know, going on podcasts and having your own show and all the things that you do to make sure that your story is told because it's supporting other people.
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What is that, what did we learn maybe as children or somewhere in society to tell us that this is wrong? Cause it's, it couldn't be more right.
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That's such a good point. I will tell you that while people knew that my husband took his life and that I was very sad, I did very quickly go into the mode of I'm fine. I'm healed, I'm fine. See, I can get through anything. Look it, I'm a professional. These kids, I'm perfect. You know what I'm saying. Say I got it. I wanted to downplay.
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what I was going through to other people because I wanted to appear strong. I wanted to show them that I could make it. And I did, however, I didn't really share my story until 2021, in depth. Primarily, probably because I was so busy raising my kids.
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And I had to financially recover after my husband passed away. I got all of about $10,000 of life insurance. And so it was just not a good situation. And it actually got even worse. But that's all in my book. And it was very, I mean, I'll say that my father-in-law actually sued me for custody of my children, for part-time custody of my children. And.
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And at a time when I didn't have a penny, truly, I couldn't afford to pay for his funeral the day he died. So I had a very rough four years. And so I really did spend a lot of time putting a face on that was very different than what was happening in my mind and in my body.
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I may have done it some for my children because I wanted to be a pillar for them. But I do think that mental health, and that's what that vulnerability is really about, is not a respected illness in our society. Because when we're being vulnerable, people begin to label us. And we get labeled usually in a way that is derogatory.
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So being vulnerable puts you in a position, in my opinion, that you are less than. And so we don't want to share and become less than. We've made not being 100% successful every minute of every day a failure. And that's just not how life works. I mean, I just say like a strong amen to that because one of the things that
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know, when you said that about your father-in-law, it takes my breath away, really angers me, makes me really sad, all the feelings, because that's somebody that's supposed to be in your circle, right? As, now I don't know him or anything about him, but as, by relation, he's supposed to be in that inner circle that helps to protect you and lift you up when you're down, not attack you. So I can't blame you for one moment for having to appear strong.
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because the inner circle wasn't protecting you. You had people protecting you, but the ones that were supposed to be there weren't, and that's not okay. And so I can't blame you for a minute, and I actually think I probably would have done the same thing. I got it. Because I think it also gives you a little bit of space to just try to figure out, where can I start to let those walls down and let people in? Because at the beginning,
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And I talk about this a lot in my coaching practices. Like in the beginning, excitement isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. The thing, the trauma just happened, the tragedy just happened, so everybody jumps and they want to know what they can do. The excitement starts to wear off. People go back to their daily lives. And it's like, I'm still here grieving and need help. It takes a long time for that to kind of peter out and.
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find its space. And so I hope that you applaud all your efforts because that's what you had to do. You were in survival mode and you did everything you had to do to make sure those kids were safe and so were you. So huge applause to you for that. Oh, thank you. The difficult things have taught me a lot and there are a lot of circumstances in that particular situation.
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And I know they were all led by grief. I have actually, I'm not angry about it anymore. I am sad that my children don't have a relationship. I'm also sad that they were put through a lot of additional trauma that they did not need. So small, eight and four at that time. And it went on for two, three years. And it really impacted them.
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That's I'm not angry anymore. It took me a while to get there, but I learned forgiveness is for you. And so while I do have a boundary about a relationship with that particular person, I don't hold anger. I just try now to use it as an experience that kind of pulls me forward.
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And it took me a bit to get there, I'm going to tell you. But again, if I let that hang on in a different way, that is how people steal your joy, is when you give them control. I was just going to say that. My brother-in-law is a psychologist or a child psychologist. I can never remember which. Actually, I think he's retired now. But he used to say this phrase that every so often, people say something and you'll never let it go.
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this one I loved, he said, it is far worse to be them than be around them. And so how can you look at that person that was torturing you with compassion saying, what is going on in their life? This is the way that they feel they have to deal with this. My learning moment is to never do that to anyone else, have compassion. And so I, again, I applaud you. I think that's amazing. And that's how you reclaim your joy is you, you don't
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absorb it, you don't take it in. And, you know, there's always the path through isn't always like a straight line, but there is always a path through and you found it and you got to the other side. And I believe faith as well has 100% to do with that. Yeah, it's all about the journey. It's all about the journey. It's all about the journey. And so what brings you joy these days?
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Wow, eating. I love food and wine. You love softballs, right? What brings you joy? Well, you know. I love food and wine. And really spending time with my kids. I feel right now I have had the opportunity to step away from my corporate existence for a little bit. It's been almost two years. And I have appreciated God giving me time back with my children, because I did have to travel. I was.
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in a financial situation that I had very few options. And so I had to find the most efficient way to make a living, meaning the most money that I could. And so we made a lot of sacrifices as a family for me to be able to do that. And so now there are 26 and 22, and I get to spend time with them and have fun with them. And I feel God's given me time back. And it is really, this last few years has been very joyful to really settle down
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my life from traveling to reintegrate into the places that I know do bring me joy, family, friends, and really be in the moment of that, which I think is really where the joy comes from. I feel like that's the jackpot right there. What are some of the things, because I do ask this question too pretty often, because I feel like there are lots of people that don't have that daily regimen.
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to set themselves up for success and things that bring them joy. What are the two or three or four practices that you employ every day to make sure you've set yourself up on a path to have the best possible day? What's your regimen? So, I'm not a great morning person, just so everybody knows. So the morning's for me, I'm not going to be that person that gets up. Sorry, it's what? What is it? Like nine there now? It's nine.
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8-4, well, that's, I mean, 8 o'clock is reasonable. What I mean is I'm not the 5 a.m. person, you know, I'll do it, but you know, I'm more of the 6 37 person. Yeah. So that means that, you know, usually I am out and going before eight, you know, around eight. And so I don't spend a lot of time in the morning necessarily, you know, doing all this stuff that other people do, like meditate and run and I used to, not anymore.
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So now actually what I it is praying I the first thing I do when I wake up is I do pray and I give thanks to God for another day because I have also lost a number of my friends and family in the last five years. And so I realized every day is such a gift and i'm so grateful to have another chance every day so my my prayers I that's how I start my morning.
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And I would say I do try to find some time every day to do something that I enjoy. And that means maybe I just want to sit down and watch the news, which I know is depressing. But it's just the act of sitting down for a moment. So I try to do something every day that just lets me relax for even if it's five minutes. It changes your perspective. And then the last thing.
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I would say that I do is I try to spend time with somebody that I love, even if it's a few minutes on the phone or even if it's texting, even though I don't love texting because of my age, I think, because it's hard to get the emotion, but really just to spend time with someone that I can connect with. I love it. I absolutely love it. For me.
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Same thing. I love journaling though, but I can't do it first thing in the morning. The boys are in and out of the kitchen and making all kinds of noise. The dogs, my husband's still here, things like that. Once they're gone and wherever they need to be and the house is quiet again, that's when I can get that done. So first thing in the morning is a workout because I always say I work out before my excuses wake up. Yes, yes, yes.
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But journaling, meditation, listening to some nice calm music, those are some of my cornerstones to just feel like I've got this. And sometimes when I don't feel like meditating, it's mindless TV that just takes me away to another world, preferably on a beach somewhere. Exactly. But the point is, is that it's just a give, you know, whatever you're doing, you don't have to judge. Right.
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I mean, obviously we're talking about things that are not unhealthy. Like you're not doing drugs or things like that, that are not good for you. But if you just, like you said, it's okay to watch mindless TV and not say, wow, I just wasted 30 minutes. No, you didn't. You just took a vacation. And so I think, you know, not having to label what we're doing.
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is something that allows that to then become joyful. I love it. That's awesome. So Julianne, where would you like to point people to? I have your Instagram, but maybe tell people where they can find you. I'm also on Facebook, Julianne Williams, and it is Brave Enough Community. And that's because my saying in my book with my daughter is that you are brave enough in every moment. And you only have to be brave enough for a moment to keep going.
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You don't have to be brave enough for tomorrow right now. You just have to be brave enough for right now, for that minute. And so that's my thing of my coaching that I offer people, you know, informally. So that's, you can find me on Instagram and on Facebook. And then I have a show called Step Into Your Life and a podcast. And so the podcast is on everything you can listen to it on Spotify and so on and so forth.
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But my show is on Phoenix TV, which is on Apple Roku and Fire. And it's in 127 countries. But you can also see my shows now on YouTube if you don't want to go onto Phoenix TV. And it's my channel, which is Brave Enough Community. Or Brave Enough is the tag. And then it's Renew, Recreate, Recover You. It's kind of long. But it is there. So if you just remember Brave Enough, you can find me.
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Yeah, and I think your number one episode had like a joyologist on there or you know, it's the funniest thing I had this really cool woman on there named Coleen who taught me how to integrate joy into my life. So watch me go online I Love it. I've loved this conversation. Thank you so much And we will have all of the links to all of the places you can be found
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and your books, of course, because I really, first of all, this cover for Head Above Water is just gorgeous. And I can't wait to hear or read about Griefquake. So really looking forward to that. Thank you so much for being on and- Thank you for having me. Thank you. I feel joyful every time I talk to you.
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This is the complex.
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I just lost my train of thought. I'm gonna have to edit that out. That was another episode of Joy Unleashed. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel so you never miss an episode.
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Thank you for tuning in to Joy Unleashed. As always, it's my honor to be your host and joyologist, Coleen Greco. Follow me @TheColeenGreco on Instagram for daily motivation and inspiration. And don't forget to leave my show, a review on Apple podcasts. Until next time sisters.
