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WKPWP Interview Classics: Steve Austin addresses his awkward Dean Ambrose interview, Goldberg's return, WWE's product, plus Gabe Sapolsky

WKPWP Interview Classics: Steve Austin addresses his awkward Dean Ambrose interview, Goldberg's return, WWE's product, plus Gabe Sapolsky ၏ စာသားမှတ်တမ်းအပြည့်အစုံ

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WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.540 --> 00:00:03.020 You hear us talk about ways to unlock VIP membership 2 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:05.360 through your Apple account and the Apple Podcast app and 3 00:00:05.379 --> 00:00:08.880 also through Patreon or Spotify. To unlock a full VIP 4 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:12.619 membership with full access to archives, an ad-free website, and 5 00:00:12.699 --> 00:00:16.589 customizable podcast feeds that are compatible with the Apple Podcast 6 00:00:16.769 --> 00:00:20.190 app and many iOS and Android apps, along with streaming 7 00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:25.010 ability right from our ad-free mobile site, go to pwtorch.com 8 00:00:25.429 --> 00:00:30.539 slash govip. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. That'll give you all 9 00:00:30.550 --> 00:00:33.060 the details on everything you're missing out on by not 10 00:00:33.179 --> 00:00:36.659 being a VIP member. The whole array of VIP exclusive 11 00:00:36.679 --> 00:00:41.200 podcasts like the Wade Keller News Bulletins, our post pay-per-view roundtables, 12 00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:43.829 the fix that I host with Todd Martin, everything with 13 00:00:43.890 --> 00:00:46.070 Rich and Wade, and an array of other shows with 14 00:00:46.090 --> 00:00:49.429 different hosts and different themes, along with unlocking our archives 15 00:00:49.469 --> 00:00:53.409 dating back nearly four decades. Nearly 2,000 Pro Wrestling Torch 16 00:00:53.450 --> 00:00:56.929 weekly newsletters. Over two decades of podcasts on demand dating 17 00:00:56.969 --> 00:01:00.310 back to the mid-2000s, starting with pay-per-view roundtables, hundreds of 18 00:01:00.450 --> 00:01:03.829 fascinating retro radio shows, including many that I hosted in 19 00:01:03.850 --> 00:01:07.780 the 1990s, and an ad-free website, exclusive content on that 20 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:12.439 website only for VIP members, written and audio, and a lightning-fast, smooth, 21 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:15.980 ad-free VIP mobile site for all of our content. Don't 22 00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:18.519 miss out on all the benefits. Treat yourself to a 23 00:01:18.540 --> 00:01:25.670 VIP membership. pwtorch.com slash govip. Go all the way. Go VIP. pwtorch.com 24 00:01:25.890 --> 00:01:26.870 slash govip. 25 00:01:38.180 --> 00:01:41.680 Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller 26 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:45.379 Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's interview classic, 27 00:01:45.500 --> 00:01:48.659 where Wade Keller interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers. 28 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:58.250 Today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast for Saturday, November 7th, 2026. 29 00:01:58.250 --> 00:02:03.030 We jump back 10 years to a back-to-back interview episode, 30 00:02:03.109 --> 00:02:05.569 first with Gabe Sapolsky and then with Stone Cold Steve Austin. 31 00:02:06.030 --> 00:02:09.129 Gabe Sapolsky, then VP of Talent Relations and Creative for 32 00:02:09.189 --> 00:02:14.409 Evolve and WNN, discussed the Flow Slam streaming affiliation and 33 00:02:14.449 --> 00:02:16.889 what it could mean to indie wrestling and the development 34 00:02:16.930 --> 00:02:19.610 of talent, plus WWE's reaction to it, who his top 35 00:02:19.629 --> 00:02:22.509 stars are, what the marketing would be, and more. And 36 00:02:22.530 --> 00:02:25.530 then Steve Austin joined me to talk about current events 37 00:02:25.610 --> 00:02:28.990 for well over an hour, including the main event programs 38 00:02:29.030 --> 00:02:32.090 and wrestlers in WWE and what was working and not working. Plus, 39 00:02:32.129 --> 00:02:34.939 Goldberg's return, the awkward Dean Ambrose interview on WWE Network, 40 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:38.439 the prospects of a Shawn Michaels-AJ Styles match, thoughts on Charlotte, 41 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:41.099 and then some UFC talk about Conor McGregor and Ronda 42 00:02:41.139 --> 00:02:44.580 Rousey at the end. Also, we got listeners ready for 43 00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:48.370 his new CMT Series Broken Skull Challenge that started up 44 00:02:48.729 --> 00:02:51.629 with new episodes that month. So let's get to it. 45 00:02:51.659 --> 00:02:54.219 Really fun interview classic episode here on the Wade Keller 46 00:02:54.479 --> 00:03:10.409 Pro Wrestling Podcast on Saturday, November 7th, 2026. Welcome to 47 00:03:10.449 --> 00:03:15.129 the PWTorch Livecast. I am Wade Keller, editor and publisher 48 00:03:15.169 --> 00:03:19.710 of the Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly Newsletter. established in 1987, 49 00:03:19.710 --> 00:03:25.409 and also PWTorch.com and MMATorch.com, covering the worlds of pro 50 00:03:25.449 --> 00:03:29.490 wrestling and mixed martial arts. You can get daily news 51 00:03:29.550 --> 00:03:32.909 updates on both pro wrestling and MMA at those two sites, 52 00:03:32.969 --> 00:03:37.770 along with exclusive flashbacks, editorials, live event coverage, and so 53 00:03:37.810 --> 00:03:44.169 much more. Mobile-friendly, desktop-friendly, check them out, PWTorch.com and MMATorch.com. 54 00:03:44.629 --> 00:03:46.449 And don't forget, you can support us when you shop 55 00:03:46.509 --> 00:03:52.889 Amazon by starting your Amazon shopping at pwtorch.com slash Amazon. 56 00:03:52.909 --> 00:03:56.889 Thank you, everybody, who's already doing that. And thank you 57 00:03:56.969 --> 00:03:59.110 for joining me today. We've got a big doubleheader on 58 00:03:59.129 --> 00:04:02.699 today's program. Coming up as our second guest on the 59 00:04:02.740 --> 00:04:08.439 program is Stone Cold Steve Austin. Yeah, Steve Austin joining 60 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:12.139 us in a few minutes. But first, we are pleased 61 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:17.189 to announce that Gabe Sapolsky. who has played many roles 62 00:04:17.250 --> 00:04:19.980 in pro wrestling over the years, going back to ECW, 63 00:04:21.379 --> 00:04:27.399 is going to be joining me to talk about flow sports, evolve, 64 00:04:28.019 --> 00:04:31.860 and what's going on with the future of indie wrestling 65
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00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:35.519 in this country. I think we've got him on this line. 66 00:04:35.579 --> 00:04:37.620 I haven't confirmed the number, but Gabe, is this you? 67 00:04:39.980 --> 00:04:43.810 Did you hear a beep, Gabe? All right, I guess not. Heck, 68 00:04:44.050 --> 00:04:46.029 I'll try this number. Gabe, is this you? 69 00:04:47.310 --> 00:04:48.100 Yep, I'm right here. 70 00:04:48.649 --> 00:04:50.139 Oh, okay, good. I wasn't sure what number you're calling from. 71 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:51.939 Good to hear from you. Thank you for calling in today. 72 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:55.560 Thanks for having me on, Wade. Am I really opening 73 00:04:55.620 --> 00:04:56.740 up for Steve Austin here? 74 00:04:57.560 --> 00:04:58.180 Yes, you are. 75 00:04:59.540 --> 00:05:01.879 Wow, this is a lot of pressure. You didn't tell 76 00:05:01.930 --> 00:05:02.439 me about this. 77 00:05:03.430 --> 00:05:05.529 He might be listening in any time now, so be sure, 78 00:05:05.550 --> 00:05:09.350 you know, that you make a good impression. No, yeah, 79 00:05:10.129 --> 00:05:13.689 when you're done, he'll be coming on. He'll be closing 80 00:05:13.730 --> 00:05:14.850 out the gig tonight. 81 00:05:16.189 --> 00:05:20.189 Well, I can actually hear the listeners tuning out until 82 00:05:20.250 --> 00:05:24.649 Steve Austin comes on. So hopefully some of them are listening. 83 00:05:25.250 --> 00:05:27.069 Well, first of all, I do want to say, if 84 00:05:27.089 --> 00:05:28.769 you have a question for Gabe Sapolsky, feel free to 85 00:05:28.790 --> 00:05:30.970 give us a call. Our phone number is 515-605-9345. 86 00:05:30.970 --> 00:05:31.230 That's 515-605-9345. 87 00:05:31.230 --> 00:05:41.779 Do not call to talk to Steve Austin tonight. until 88 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:44.240 we say goodbye to Gabe and bring Steve on to 89 00:05:44.259 --> 00:05:47.920 the show. That'll just create confusion and chaos. And you 90 00:05:47.939 --> 00:05:52.800 can also email us a question, pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. That's 91 00:05:52.860 --> 00:05:58.959 pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. Gabe, some changes going on in the 92 00:05:59.019 --> 00:06:01.720 wrestling industry. Last time you were on the show, a 93 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:04.779 really good conversation about a lot of things, big picture 94 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:07.759 in this industry. There's some micro-specifics that affect you that 95 00:06:07.790 --> 00:06:10.660 I want to get into. Also, of course, and we'll 96 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:12.160 start with that, and then I'll kind of broaden it 97 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:17.399 out afterwards, because you've been such a mainstay and survivor 98 00:06:18.300 --> 00:06:25.209 in an ever-changing world of independent wrestling, non-corporate wrestling, and 99 00:06:26.089 --> 00:06:32.050 also media changes, distribution changes. And Flow Slam is a 100 00:06:32.089 --> 00:06:34.449 new channel as part of the Flow Sports family now. 101 00:06:34.930 --> 00:06:42.670 well-established amateur sports, essentially, or recreational activity streaming service. And 102 00:06:42.910 --> 00:06:45.589 they announced a week and a half ago that the 103 00:06:45.670 --> 00:06:48.980 World Wrestling Network was the first affiliate of their new 104 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:54.399 professional wrestling distribution channel. They're charging $ 20 a month or 105 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:59.399 a lot less if you commit to a year. Let 106 00:06:59.620 --> 00:07:01.540 me ask this first of all, because I think with 107 00:07:01.579 --> 00:07:04.790 our listenership, There's people intrigued by this, but they just 108 00:07:04.829 --> 00:07:08.629 don't know a lot outside of WWE, NXT, and ROH, 109 00:07:09.050 --> 00:07:12.899 and references here and there to other things. What is 110 00:07:13.060 --> 00:07:17.420 World Wrestling Network, and what is your role in the 111 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:20.649 different affiliates under that banner? 112 00:07:22.329 --> 00:07:26.250 Well, first of all, I like that description of mainstay 113 00:07:26.329 --> 00:07:30.589 at Survivor. Thank you for that. Maybe I can go 114 00:07:30.610 --> 00:07:35.170 update my Wikipedia with that. That seems to be the 115 00:07:35.209 --> 00:07:37.649 best way to describe the last 23 years of my life. 116 00:07:39.769 --> 00:07:42.129 For the people who don't know, I was with ECW 117 00:07:42.269 --> 00:07:45.189 and then started Ring of Honor after that. 118 00:07:45.829 --> 00:07:50.000 What's that? Don't give the 30-minute whole lot. 119 00:07:50.019 --> 00:07:54.199 I was Paul Heyman's personal assistant. I actually doubt Steve 120 00:07:54.300 --> 00:07:59.029 Austin remembered me, but But part of my apprenticeship there 121 00:07:59.089 --> 00:08:01.829 was Heyman having me call Steve Austin with his flight 122 00:08:01.870 --> 00:08:05.769 info back in ECW. That was my first dealing with 123 00:08:05.829 --> 00:08:11.040 a major star. But then we started Ring of Honor, 124 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:14.279 and then from there, Dragon Gay USA evolved. I booked 125 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:18.259 for FIP. So it has been survival for over the 126 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:22.720 course of the 23 years. The World Wrestling Network is 127 00:08:22.740 --> 00:08:26.990 Sal Hamway's vision. and I'm its partner in some of 128 00:08:27.009 --> 00:08:31.639 the promotions of it. It's basically the main company, and 129 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:36.500 underneath it we have several different brands of wrestling, including Evolve, 130 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:40.600 which is the main brand, Shine, which is the one 131 00:08:40.620 --> 00:08:48.190 that features women's wrestling, serious women's wrestling, FIP, and ACW's 132 00:08:48.250 --> 00:08:51.990 in it. And we got some stuff up our sleeve, too, 133 00:08:52.009 --> 00:08:55.200 that we're going to announce Black Friday week. So, um, 134 00:08:55.299 --> 00:08:59.470 pay attention to www.live.com for that.
Cause, um, we're, we're, 135 00:08:59.570 --> 00:09:01.909 we're gonna, the flow slam deal allows us to take 136 00:09:01.929 --> 00:09:06.129 something to the next level. So, um, we're, we're definitely, uh, the, the, the, 137 00:09:06.169 --> 00:09:09.549 the WWN is going to, um, be, uh, it's, it's 138 00:09:09.590 --> 00:09:13.909 going to be expanding. So, um, so basically, uh, those 139 00:09:13.990 --> 00:09:17.220 brands are, the goal is to present a different style 140 00:09:17.240 --> 00:09:20.860 of wrestling. And we are taking all that over and 141 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:26.429 out of flow slam.tv, um, starting this Friday with the shine, uh, 142 00:09:26.629 --> 00:09:31.139 I pay-per-view and, um, flow slam.tv has already put a 143 00:09:31.179 --> 00:09:33.740 lot of the evolve and shine and dragon gate USA 144 00:09:33.820 --> 00:09:35.779 shows on demand. They're going to have the whole back 145 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:38.940 library there too. So it's going to be, uh, it's 146 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:40.600 going to be a really good deal. It's a 20 147 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:43.320 bucks a month. You get to where we're committed to 148 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:45.720 doing five live shows a month. So you get that 149 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:50.240 and the entire back catalog. And, um, it's only $ 150 150 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:51.519 if you commit to the whole year. So that comes 151 00:09:51.539 --> 00:09:56.240 out to $ 1, 250 a month. So you put five in 152 00:09:56.259 --> 00:09:59.360 the $ 1, 250, it comes out to $ 250 a live show. 153 00:09:59.419 --> 00:10:01.659 So it's a pretty good deal and the future of 154 00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:04.399 where distribution of pro wrestling is going. 155 00:10:05.620 --> 00:10:09.710 Yeah, the future of the distribution of pro wrestling is right. WWE, 156 00:10:10.690 --> 00:10:13.370 a few years ago, a lot of people crunched the 157 00:10:13.409 --> 00:10:16.070 numbers and looked at the pay-per-view data and said, they're 158 00:10:16.090 --> 00:10:21.230 cannibalizing this pay-per-view data or this pay-per-view revenue by converting 159 00:10:21.269 --> 00:10:24.049 to streaming, they might be doing it too soon. My 160 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:28.559 thinking is think long-term on this type of thing. If 161 00:10:28.580 --> 00:10:30.860 you can get in early, I mean, you don't want 162 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:33.340 to start before you can have a reliable signal or 163 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:35.000 before you have a payment method set up that is 164 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:36.799 convenient for people. You don't want to give a bad impression. 165 00:10:37.179 --> 00:10:39.600 But once the technology is there and you're pretty sure 166 00:10:39.659 --> 00:10:42.820 it's the future, you know, it's sort of like Netflix. Yeah, 167 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:45.580 they'll mail you a DVD, but they really just want 168 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:48.700 you to sign up online. And that's been their philosophy
169 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.850 since for even when there were blockbuster stores in every corner. 170 00:10:51.950 --> 00:10:53.940 They were trying to convert people to the streaming method 171 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:58.440 because they knew that was the future. The DVD industry, 172 00:10:58.820 --> 00:11:02.340 it's strange, Gabe, that people look at $ 20. And, I mean, 173 00:11:03.539 --> 00:11:06.789 it has to seem so strange to you because people 174 00:11:06.909 --> 00:11:10.529 are looking at $ 20 going, what? You know, WWE only 175 00:11:10.549 --> 00:11:13.950 charges $ 10. And I've heard a lot of that. And 176 00:11:14.090 --> 00:11:17.019 if you compare it to DVD pricing... And the number 177 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:19.450 of events you're getting, that has to frustrate you because 178 00:11:19.490 --> 00:11:22.269 you get it immediately. You get it live. You have 179 00:11:22.590 --> 00:11:24.789 perpetual access to it for as long as you're a member. 180 00:11:25.450 --> 00:11:27.309 You can watch it on any device, all of that stuff. 181 00:11:27.750 --> 00:11:30.710 Those are all pluses. Is that a hard adjustment for 182 00:11:30.769 --> 00:11:33.610 you to now be talking about and trying to sell 183 00:11:33.649 --> 00:11:37.529 people on $ 2. 50 is a good deal? Come on, people, 184 00:11:37.649 --> 00:11:41.570 as opposed to– The mindset before, which is, oh, I 185 00:11:41.610 --> 00:11:44.429 get to watch an indie event on DVD, this is fantastic, 186 00:11:44.769 --> 00:11:47.750 which was the attitude in the, actually, VHS era at 187 00:11:47.769 --> 00:11:50.769 the beginning of ROH. People were just happy to have 188 00:11:50.789 --> 00:11:52.990 access to this great show that otherwise they would have 189 00:11:53.009 --> 00:11:54.309 had to drive across the country to see. 190 00:11:56.149 --> 00:11:58.799 It really is amazing to me and frustrating at the 191 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.940 same time, because I did come up in an era... 192 00:12:02.409 --> 00:12:06.159 People were paying $ 25 for a VHS of an ECW 193 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:10.639 show and a videotape. And even $ 20 was the going 194 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:13.120 price when we started Ring of Honor of a videotape 195 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:15.720 and then a DVD. And, you know, we still get 196 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:18.529 $ 20 for Blu-rays, but anybody will tell you that the 197 00:12:18.649 --> 00:12:22.909 physical media is just dying and has been for a 198 00:12:22.929 --> 00:12:25.710 long time. There's still an audience for it. And it's 199 00:12:25.730 --> 00:12:29.149 still something we produce. But it's definitely not what it 200 00:12:29.210 --> 00:12:31.279 used to be. But it used to be $ 20, $ 25 201 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:36.970 per show. Now, for $ 20, I look at it. Right now, 202 00:12:37.009 --> 00:12:40.269 you buy ThePostLame.tv just for November for $ 20. You're getting 203 00:12:40.289 --> 00:12:44.649 this Friday's shine show. We're running Evolve on November 12th 204 00:12:44.769 --> 00:12:48.549 out of New York. Evolve November 13th out of Joppa, Maryland. 205 00:12:48.870 --> 00:12:51.389 We have loaded cards for that. That's three live events 206 00:12:51.429 --> 00:12:54.289 right there for $ 20. and the whole back catalog that 207 00:12:54.309 --> 00:12:57.789 you can watch anytime. So it's like, to me, that's 208 00:12:57.830 --> 00:13:01.110 an amazing deal. But I do understand that the market 209 00:13:01.129 --> 00:13:06.500 has been set by WWE at $ 10, even New Japan's $ 10. 210 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:08.259 So I understand that's a price point, and that's why 211 00:13:08.299 --> 00:13:10.539 we're trying to go above and beyond and offer more 212 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:14.220 with all these live events. And I know Flowslam.tv is 213 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:17.500 also looking to acquire other independents and add it to 214 00:13:17.539 --> 00:13:21.639 the service. So that's no secret. So we're trying to 215 00:13:21.710 --> 00:13:24.649 do our best to go to give as much as 216 00:13:24.710 --> 00:13:29.289 we can, especially live content, because streaming is a live platform. 217 00:13:29.929 --> 00:13:32.929 And once we start making these announcements Black Friday week, 218 00:13:33.230 --> 00:13:37.049 that's going to show that we're offering more. And hopefully 219 00:13:37.370 --> 00:13:40.450 we do give enough value so that 250 a show 220 00:13:40.490 --> 00:13:42.350 is worth it. You know, it is a little discouraging 221 00:13:42.370 --> 00:13:44.820 when you say to like, you know, we're kind of 222 00:13:44.860 --> 00:13:48.500 we're working our hardest right now. and we're presenting these 223 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:51.740 events that we're really proud of, and, you know, it's 224 00:13:51.779 --> 00:13:54.259 hard to get people to think they're worth $ 5 each 225 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:58.289 or something or $ 2. 50 each or whatever. So, yeah, it 226 00:13:58.370 --> 00:14:01.389 is frustrating, but at the same time, we understand that 227 00:14:01.450 --> 00:14:03.049 this is the age we live in, and you can 228 00:14:03.070 --> 00:14:05.090 either go with it and make it work for you 229 00:14:05.490 --> 00:14:08.610 or fight it. And we've been in this gap for 230 00:14:08.629 --> 00:14:12.029 a long time because we did have our service at WWNlive.com 231 00:14:12.049 --> 00:14:14.409 where we were charging $ 15 per event a la carte. 232 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:19.159 we weren't able to offer subscription service. It was something 233 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:22.039 we were looking into before this FlowSlam deal and actually 234 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.450 had in development because we realized that's the direction things 235 00:14:24.470 --> 00:14:26.210 were going in. That was going to be a big 236 00:14:26.230 --> 00:14:30.990 risk for us and a big gamble. And then FlowSlam.tv 237 00:14:31.029 --> 00:14:34.850 came along and they made this something
that was very 238 00:14:34.889 --> 00:14:38.429 appealing to us because it allowed us to offer our 239 00:14:38.490 --> 00:14:39.669 product at this price. 240 00:14:40.370 --> 00:14:40.570 Um. 241 00:14:40.730 --> 00:14:43.990 to to uh... to to the masses and we realize 242 00:14:44.009 --> 00:14:46.190 that this is the way things are going and flow 243 00:14:46.210 --> 00:14:49.909 slam is is a tremendous company that was the big 244 00:14:49.929 --> 00:14:53.049 thing about this deal is a foul we we did 245 00:14:53.110 --> 00:14:57.070 research on them wwe is an investor in them uh... 246 00:14:57.730 --> 00:14:59.950 if you google them and you'll see a wall street 247 00:14:59.970 --> 00:15:02.289 journal article where they've raised quite a bit of money uh... 248 00:15:03.490 --> 00:15:07.570 with sal uh... actually went down to austin texas and 249 00:15:07.710 --> 00:15:11.740 visited their headquarters and was just blown away by the 250 00:15:11.779 --> 00:15:16.120 amount of employees they have and their whole complex there 251 00:15:16.139 --> 00:15:19.940 of office buildings and the technology that they're developing. So 252 00:15:20.059 --> 00:15:24.039 this was our chance to partner with a rising major 253 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:27.559 company that is at the forefront of the streaming industry, 254 00:15:28.259 --> 00:15:31.889 and we took it because this is definitely the future. 255 00:15:32.070 --> 00:15:34.190 It's going to be a one-price subscription service, and now 256 00:15:34.210 --> 00:15:36.529 it's just a matter of offering as much as we 257 00:15:36.549 --> 00:15:37.850 can to justify that price. 258 00:15:38.950 --> 00:15:40.460 I got some follow-up questions for you. We're going to 259 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:42.379 go to our commercial break. Our first commercial break will 260 00:15:42.389 --> 00:15:44.740 be back right after this word from our sponsors. More 261 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:49.000 with Gabe Sapolsky of Evolve and the World Wrestling Network 262 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:54.320 available on Flow Sports platform in the Flow Slam channel. 263 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:02.340 We know you're a pro wrestling fan. Did you know 264 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.740 that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of your 265 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:09.759 favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch Daily Casts? Just go 266 00:16:09.820 --> 00:16:15.240 to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a VIP membership tier. 267 00:16:15.259 --> 00:16:17.259 You get a seven-day free trial, by the way, to 268 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:18.710 kick the tires a bit and see if you like 269 00:16:18.730 --> 00:16:21.350 the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and you 270 00:16:21.370 --> 00:16:24.149 can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows like 271 00:16:24.169 --> 00:16:26.500 the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship, 272 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:30.940 our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch DataCast lineup. Again, all commercial-free, 273 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.000 a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership, you 274 00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:37.440 can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with 275 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:39.100 Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that I 276 00:16:39.139 --> 00:16:41.820 host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin's 277 00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:46.720 post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with 278 00:16:46.740 --> 00:16:50.149 different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup. Go 279 00:16:50.190 --> 00:16:54.509 to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync it 280 00:16:54.549 --> 00:16:57.850 up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either 281 00:16:57.870 --> 00:17:01.590 way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day free trial. 282 00:17:03.309 --> 00:17:07.930 Always at PWTorchLivecast.com. My guest in the first part of 283 00:17:07.990 --> 00:17:11.410 today's Interview Thursday episode is Gabe Sapolsky. Gabe, do you 284 00:17:11.490 --> 00:17:15.619 have a title now, or the same title you had, 285 00:17:15.700 --> 00:17:16.859 what was it, or do you have a new title 286 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:17.539 now with this deal? 287 00:17:20.420 --> 00:17:23.119 I guess it's VP of Talent Relations for WWN. 288 00:17:24.269 --> 00:17:25.589 And creative. 289 00:17:25.950 --> 00:17:29.789 Something like that. I like Mainstayman Survivor. I think I'm 290 00:17:29.809 --> 00:17:32.049 going to put that on my business card. Or opening 291 00:17:32.069 --> 00:17:34.549 act for Steve Austin on Blake Keller's show. 292 00:17:34.950 --> 00:17:35.529 One or the other. 293 00:17:35.650 --> 00:17:37.650 I'll go with those. 294 00:17:38.250 --> 00:17:40.569 I like it. I like it. If you do get 295 00:17:40.609 --> 00:17:43.650 business cards made up with that, send me a couple. 296 00:17:43.670 --> 00:17:45.630 I'll put them. 297 00:17:45.329 --> 00:17:46.170 Up in my office. 298 00:17:46.930 --> 00:17:54.980 Very good. Okay. How is Flow Slam... And this is 299 00:17:55.019 --> 00:17:58.500 regardless of whether they add more independent brands or ROH 300 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.720 or New Japan or who knows what else. Just in general, 301 00:18:01.819 --> 00:18:03.779 how are they going to reach new wrestling fans? Is 302 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:06.789 the game plan the same as Jerry Jarrett's and Jeff 303 00:18:06.809 --> 00:18:09.289 Jarrett's when TNA launched, which is, well, look at all 304 00:18:09.309 --> 00:18:11.470 those people on message boards who like wrestling. Look at 305 00:18:11.490 --> 00:18:13.730 all those websites who write about us. That's free publicity. 306 00:18:14.369 --> 00:18:16.609 They're going to find out about this. And if we 307 00:18:16.630 --> 00:18:18.769 can just get X percent of them, we're going to 308 00:18:18.809 --> 00:18:25.339 be rich. And it
didn't work out. Absolutely not. I 309 00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:28.640 set that up as a low bar for you to 310 00:18:28.700 --> 00:18:33.480 do better than, but what is that game plan? 311 00:18:33.579 --> 00:18:38.309 This is a cutting-edge real company with 200 employees, and 312 00:18:38.490 --> 00:18:41.769 among those 200 employees is a marketing department filled with 313 00:18:41.829 --> 00:18:45.670 people who know all that SEO and Google ads and 314 00:18:45.829 --> 00:18:50.390 Facebook ads and everything else and how to reach demographics. 315 00:18:50.900 --> 00:18:55.829 So part of their sales pitch to us was the 316 00:18:55.849 --> 00:18:57.769 amount of marketing and promotion they're going to put into 317 00:18:57.809 --> 00:19:00.500 this and the people that they have marketing and promoting it. 318 00:19:00.509 --> 00:19:02.170 And in fact, that was one thing I told Sal 319 00:19:02.190 --> 00:19:04.750 when we went down to Austin was, hey, make sure 320 00:19:05.029 --> 00:19:07.569 you find out, you talk to the marketing people and see. 321 00:19:07.490 --> 00:19:08.170 What they're all about. 322 00:19:08.190 --> 00:19:10.720 I want to see if it's a bunch of college kids, interns, 323 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.799 or I want to see if they actually have marketing 324 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:18.059 and experts. And they do. So they went out and 325 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:22.710 hired the best people possible. and they've committed a pretty 326 00:19:22.769 --> 00:19:27.829 nice budget to marketing this as well. So what they 327 00:19:27.849 --> 00:19:30.289 do with that, that's in their hands. They're the experts. 328 00:19:30.450 --> 00:19:33.230 We deliver the product, but we have been assured that 329 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:36.480 we have top marketing people getting behind this, and it's 330 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:40.079 not going to be let's tweet some stuff with a 331 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:43.740 hashtag and hope people find it. 332 00:19:44.660 --> 00:19:50.880 The marketing of this, what is your– Understand. I assume 333 00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:55.500 you'll be involved in what the pitch should be. When 334 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.250 the product is marketed, what is the niche? What is 335 00:19:58.450 --> 00:20:01.130 Paul Heyman? I'll preface it with this short little anecdote. 336 00:20:01.150 --> 00:20:03.809 Paul Heyman always said the main reason T & A 337 00:20:03.930 --> 00:20:06.690 isn't working or a big reason preventing them from growing 338 00:20:07.289 --> 00:20:09.559 is they don't have an identity. People don't know when 339 00:20:09.579 --> 00:20:13.039 you say TNA what that means. They haven't defined their 340 00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:15.880 place in their brand in the marketplace other than the 341 00:20:15.940 --> 00:20:18.000 initial vision. And I know from talking to Jerry Jarrett 342 00:20:18.019 --> 00:20:19.819 before the TNA launch, it was, well, there's all those 343 00:20:20.059 --> 00:20:22.039 WCW fans out there. And if we just give them 344 00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:24.640 a product sort of like it, they'll come back because 345 00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:26.440 they don't like WWE. So we're just going to kind 346 00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:29.170 of be a continuation of WCW since he didn't get 347 00:20:29.190 --> 00:20:33.089 to buy the company. He just sort of recreated. What 348 00:20:33.109 --> 00:20:36.970 is Evolve? What is the pitch for WWE World Wrestling Network? 349 00:20:36.990 --> 00:20:40.160 What is the pitch for Evolve? that gets WWE fans 350 00:20:40.220 --> 00:20:43.220 who are overwhelmed with content. Now we've got the Cruiserweight 351 00:20:43.220 --> 00:20:46.269 205 show, Live 205 on Tuesday nights, got NXT on 352 00:20:46.289 --> 00:20:50.329 Wednesday nights, TakeOver specials. Fans have a real variety of 353 00:20:50.430 --> 00:20:53.609 product for $ 10 a month. What's your pitch to those 354 00:20:53.730 --> 00:20:56.890 fans that says, this is what our product is about, 355 00:20:57.289 --> 00:20:58.390 and this is why you should check it out? 356 00:21:00.150 --> 00:21:02.269 That's an excellent question because there is a lot of 357 00:21:02.309 --> 00:21:05.549 product available to people. I believe a big part of 358 00:21:05.569 --> 00:21:07.890 the pitch is the amount of live shows that you're 359 00:21:07.910 --> 00:21:10.140 going to get for $ 20 a month or $ 12. 50 a 360 00:21:10.900 --> 00:21:15.000 month if you do the $ 150 flap fee. We're going 361 00:21:15.019 --> 00:21:18.500 to offer an absolutely tremendous amount of live content. It's 362 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:20.359 going to be the back catalog, which is going to 363 00:21:20.500 --> 00:21:23.839 feature a lot of the big names on their way up. 364 00:21:23.859 --> 00:21:26.089 You look at just the names we have through FIP. 365 00:21:27.049 --> 00:21:29.809 and Dragon Gate USA and Evolve. You're talking about Samoa Joe, 366 00:21:29.849 --> 00:21:32.769 CM Punk, Bryan Danielson. I mean, it just goes on 367 00:21:32.809 --> 00:21:36.779 and on and on. And as far as on my end, 368 00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:41.140 once we start making these announcements on Black Friday week 369 00:21:41.539 --> 00:21:43.920 and the whole vision of how the different brands of 370 00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:49.309 the WWE family become clear, we're going to offer pretty 371 00:21:49.349 --> 00:21:51.710 much every style of wrestling under the planet. 372 00:21:52.410 --> 00:21:52.579 Uh. 373 00:21:52.650 --> 00:21:55.319 it's gonna be a wide variety of wrestling it's gonna 374 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.160 be a wide variety of wrestlers uh... and it's it's 375 00:21:59.180 --> 00:22:01.299 gonna be a lot of bang for your buck and 376 00:22:01.339 --> 00:22:03.059 it's gonna be a lot of diversity and it's going 377 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:06.599 to be an alternative wwe so wwe is doing a 378 00:22:06.619 --> 00:22:10.380 tremendous job on right now uh... with with
the cruiserweights 379 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.460 and offering a lot of different things but they're still 380 00:22:12.569 --> 00:22:15.569 alternative ways to to protect wrestling and and that is 381 00:22:15.630 --> 00:22:18.069 what we are going to offer at a competitive price 382 00:22:18.089 --> 00:22:19.930 when it comes to the amount of life shows that 383 00:22:19.950 --> 00:22:20.410 you get. 384 00:22:22.029 --> 00:22:27.519 What about like pro wrestling is typically a star driven business. Um, 385 00:22:27.700 --> 00:22:30.720 who are the stars right now? If you say evolve 386 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:32.769 as a main brand and it may continue to be, 387 00:22:32.779 --> 00:22:34.900 although like you say, black Friday, there'll be some changes 388 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:36.640 or some funding. You can raise things to a new level. 389 00:22:37.700 --> 00:22:41.829 Are there, are there one, two, three, four talents or 390 00:22:41.910 --> 00:22:45.589 wrestlers to not use WWE's vernacular? Are there four pro 391 00:22:45.630 --> 00:22:49.859 wrestlers that really you think are a central reason people 392 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:51.000 are going to get into this product? 393 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.690 I believe the strength of independent wrestling is really the brands, 394 00:22:55.829 --> 00:22:59.609 and you're not going to compete with a star-powered WWE. 395 00:22:59.710 --> 00:23:01.589 You never will. I've been playing this game for a 396 00:23:01.609 --> 00:23:04.430 long time, so that's one of the lessons I've learned. 397 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:06.779 But the strength is really going to be in the 398 00:23:06.819 --> 00:23:10.319 brands and making the brands interesting. And one thing that 399 00:23:10.420 --> 00:23:14.440 is interesting about the whole Flow Sports model is if 400 00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:17.329 you look at the website, what their philosophy is is 401 00:23:17.710 --> 00:23:18.809 they offer a lot. 402 00:23:18.609 --> 00:23:19.390 Of different things. 403 00:23:20.529 --> 00:23:26.799 Gymnastics, cheerleading, amateur wrestling, MMA, and it's really the long-tail 404 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:29.900 model of marketing, if you're familiar with that, where their 405 00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:33.519 philosophy is offer a lot of different things, and every 406 00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:36.859 single one of those different things will have a small audience. 407 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:40.259 And if you offer enough of those small things, that 408 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.880 small audience adds up to a large audience. And this 409 00:23:44.089 --> 00:23:48.369 is what we are going to do with WWN. And 410 00:23:48.470 --> 00:23:50.819 the diversity that we're going to offer and hopefully the 411 00:23:50.859 --> 00:23:53.799 other independent companies that come on board, it's really about 412 00:23:53.819 --> 00:23:57.039 the long tail. It's not about going after the masses. 413 00:23:57.059 --> 00:23:59.220 They're not fooled. They're not thinking they're suddenly going to 414 00:23:59.259 --> 00:24:02.160 get a million subscribers or get 50% or 25% of 415 00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:06.950 what WWE is getting for their network. But we feel 416 00:24:06.970 --> 00:24:08.769 that there will be enough people that are interested in 417 00:24:08.829 --> 00:24:11.670 all these other things. In addition to the $ 150 a year, 418 00:24:11.690 --> 00:24:15.859 that gives you access to everything flow sports offers. So, 419 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:18.380 so they're hoping that we're just part of that long 420 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:21.789 tail model of marketing. And, um, and, and that's where 421 00:24:21.809 --> 00:24:24.170 we really fit in. And then that's our strength. Um, 422 00:24:24.250 --> 00:24:25.990 as far as stars go, I mean, we do offer 423 00:24:26.069 --> 00:24:30.029 great wrestling, uh, with evolve. Matt Riddle is, is a 424 00:24:30.069 --> 00:24:33.109 guy who's committed to us. And, um, he has the 425 00:24:33.230 --> 00:24:35.849 it factor as much as anybody as I've ever, I've 426 00:24:36.009 --> 00:24:38.549 ever seen. And, you know, I've, I booked CM Punk 427 00:24:38.569 --> 00:24:41.539 for years and Brian Danielson for years and Samoa Joe and, 428 00:24:42.099 --> 00:24:45.200 and Seth Rollins and Kevin Owens and all those guys. And, 429 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:49.430 and Matt Riddle has that intangible factor. Timothy Thatcher is 430 00:24:49.490 --> 00:24:53.609 our champion. Um, it's very different than everything else. And he, uh, 431 00:24:54.250 --> 00:24:56.170 I feel that he has a great deal of charisma 432 00:24:56.190 --> 00:25:00.869 and is a very interesting character. Um, and, and, uh, we, 433 00:25:01.109 --> 00:25:03.470 we do understand that, you know, we are part of 434 00:25:03.490 --> 00:25:05.779 the food chain of talent on the way up to WWE. 435 00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:08.380 And I'm very proud of the fact that, um, we 436 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.140 have guys like Drew Gulak and Tony to right now 437 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.109 seen on the, uh, on WWE Raw every week, and 438 00:25:14.210 --> 00:25:16.630 they're going to be... I'll let it slip right now. 439 00:25:16.690 --> 00:25:18.960 We're having to make some lineup changes for our Queen show, 440 00:25:19.299 --> 00:25:21.660 but it's going to be Timothy Thatcher versus Drew Gulak 441 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:25.160 for the Evolve title on November 12th in Queens, New York, 442 00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:28.440 and whoever wins that match is going to face Tony 443 00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:32.269 Nese for the Evolve title on November 13th in Joppa, Maryland, 444 00:25:32.569 --> 00:25:35.269 which means on November 14th, the Evolve champion could be 445 00:25:35.309 --> 00:25:38.390 on Monday Night Raw. So we're kind of getting that 446 00:25:38.410 --> 00:25:41.309 trickle-down effect going. uh, from WWE as well, which is 447 00:25:41.390 --> 00:25:45.710 also a very interesting
situation. If you ask me, um, that, uh, 448 00:25:45.849 --> 00:25:48.369 that we can have the, the evolved champion on, on 449 00:25:48.430 --> 00:25:51.049 Monday night raw. And it really blows my mind that, 450 00:25:51.089 --> 00:25:54.319 that that's even possible at this point. Um, Chris hero, 451 00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:55.980 of course, is one of the best going today. He's, 452 00:25:56.019 --> 00:25:59.740 he's been on those shows, November 12th and 13th ricochets. 453 00:25:59.319 --> 00:25:59.680 In and out. 454 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:02.599 We have Dick Togo coming in. So we'll continue to 455 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:05.119 kind of offer this, this buffet of great talent and, 456 00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:10.210 and rising talent. And, um, And in the end, hopefully 457 00:26:10.230 --> 00:26:12.650 it'll put together a package that's enticing to the fans 458 00:26:12.710 --> 00:26:14.119 on this long-tail marketing plan. 459 00:26:15.019 --> 00:26:17.799 You mentioned WWE a couple times in the last 25 minutes. 460 00:26:18.259 --> 00:26:22.180 They invested in Flow Sports, my understanding. It came before 461 00:26:22.299 --> 00:26:25.829 they had any idea of Flow Slam. Streaming service for 462 00:26:25.869 --> 00:26:28.849 recreational sports and amateur sports was going to get into 463 00:26:28.890 --> 00:26:34.289 pro wrestling. I've heard speculation and conjecture that, oh, WWE... 464 00:26:35.289 --> 00:26:39.529 has influence over and is, in fact, going to continue 465 00:26:39.549 --> 00:26:42.670 to have some influence over Flow Slam in some form 466 00:26:42.710 --> 00:26:44.609 or fashion. I've heard other people say, oh, they're not 467 00:26:44.670 --> 00:26:46.730 happy about this. They invested money in this company, and 468 00:26:46.750 --> 00:26:50.150 that's being used to create sort of competition to them, 469 00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:54.299 and their history is they want to own everything. They 470 00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:57.000 understand there's a feeder system, but they want to fight 471 00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:59.880 it and be their own feeder system. Where is WWE 472 00:26:59.940 --> 00:27:04.170 on that spectrum, as far as your understanding goes? when 473 00:27:04.190 --> 00:27:07.099 it comes to this project, because it felt awkward at 474 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.960 the beginning that you had a really good working relationship 475 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:13.440 with them. And now suddenly they're saying, hey, everybody, we 476 00:27:13.460 --> 00:27:15.759 have a streaming service. Come over to our side and 477 00:27:15.779 --> 00:27:16.740 look at this great indie breath. 478 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:21.509 No, not awkward at all. And WWE is aware of 479 00:27:21.529 --> 00:27:26.450 what's going on. WWE, we've been very fortunate to build 480 00:27:26.470 --> 00:27:31.099 this relationship with WWE over the past year. And WWE 481 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.539 has closer ties to Flow Slam than we do. They 482 00:27:33.579 --> 00:27:36.420 knew everybody we were talking to there. Everybody at Flow 483 00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:38.799 Slam has greater access to their office than we do. 484 00:27:39.180 --> 00:27:43.380 So there's no conspiracies going on or anything like that. 485 00:27:44.990 --> 00:27:48.210 WWE knew that we were signing this deal and gave 486 00:27:48.230 --> 00:27:53.670 their blessings. So it's just one of those situations. WWE 487 00:27:53.710 --> 00:27:57.519 is an investor in this company. And everything, as far 488 00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:00.640 as our relationship goes, it's stronger than ever. We have 489 00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:04.279 William Regal, their director of scouting. He is coming to 490 00:28:04.339 --> 00:28:06.859 our show on November 13th in Joppa, Maryland. He's going 491 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:09.900 to be signing autographs for the fans. And beforehand, we 492 00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.440 got a seminar tryout for wrestlers. And I just want 493 00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.759 to say something about Mr. Regal while I have an opportunity. 494 00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:18.859 He is an absolute credit to the wrestling industry and 495 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.220 the help that he has given us and the wrestlers. 496 00:28:23.009 --> 00:28:25.940 He did our seminar tryouts. as a special guest a 497 00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:28.829 couple weeks ago in Florida and I've been doing it 498 00:28:28.849 --> 00:28:31.250 for 23 years I learned new things at that seminar 499 00:28:31.269 --> 00:28:35.049 tryout that helped me help talent get better that I 500 00:28:35.069 --> 00:28:37.049 can give to talent now and he sat there and 501 00:28:37.069 --> 00:28:40.009 he talked to everybody individually that was involved in that 502 00:28:40.049 --> 00:28:43.789 seminar tryout and watched all their matches and some of 503 00:28:43.809 --> 00:28:45.289 these guys are good and some of them had no 504 00:28:45.349 --> 00:28:47.329 chance but he still gave them all time and all 505 00:28:47.369 --> 00:28:50.450 advice and he is an absolute asset to the entire 506 00:28:50.509 --> 00:28:53.099 wrestling industry And we're fortunate to have him back on 507 00:28:53.140 --> 00:28:56.200 November 13th for both the seminar tryout and to meet 508 00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:59.630 with the fans too. And there's other stuff in the 509 00:28:59.670 --> 00:29:03.809 works too. So our relationship with WWE is stronger than ever. 510 00:29:03.890 --> 00:29:08.369 They're very progressive thinking right now towards the indies. Triple 511 00:29:08.549 --> 00:29:11.849 H is really leading a movement there and a change 512 00:29:11.869 --> 00:29:15.410 in their paradigm towards the indies. And he's backing up 513 00:29:16.190 --> 00:29:20.660 his ideas by helping out when he can. And it's 514 00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:22.819 been an absolutely tremendous relationship, and it's going to continue 515 00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:23.819 going forward in the future. 516
00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:27.380 Do they have any influence over what goes on with 517 00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:29.630 Flow Slam? I mean, are they in any way a 518 00:29:29.690 --> 00:29:34.369 partner or steering things, or are they saying, you do 519 00:29:34.410 --> 00:29:38.390 your thing, and there's an understanding that the territory is 520 00:29:38.430 --> 00:29:42.279 just different, not overlapping? all that much, and it's completely independent? 521 00:29:43.940 --> 00:29:45.240 That would be above my pay. 522 00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:49.220 Grade, so I don't know what the conversations between Flow 523 00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:54.269 Slam and WWE are. I just know that they gave 524 00:29:54.289 --> 00:29:57.819 their blessing with signing this deal, and our relationship which 525 00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:01.539 has been very helpful to us over the last year, 526 00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:02.619 is going to continue. 527 00:30:03.579 --> 00:30:06.740 Okay, yep. Well, Gabe, we're at the 30-minute mark. We've 528 00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:08.440 got to have you back on when more news develops, 529 00:30:08.849 --> 00:30:12.049 and hopefully when people start seeing these shows who hadn't 530 00:30:12.089 --> 00:30:16.069 seen them before, start wanting to talk about them. You know, 531 00:30:16.089 --> 00:30:19.589 this will reach a new... a new customer who just 532 00:30:20.210 --> 00:30:25.000 didn't feel the pay-per-view model was for them, but the 533 00:30:25.059 --> 00:30:27.440 idea of catching up on a back catalog and having 534 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:31.160 that quantity of live events, along with whatever else you 535 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.960 have up your sleeve in terms of the new funding 536 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:36.119 that allows you to play at a higher level, what 537 00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:39.049 that produces. So I assume you'll continue to make news, 538 00:30:39.109 --> 00:30:42.630 and it's exciting times. My final question, do you agree 539 00:30:42.690 --> 00:30:48.170 that this is a boon to at least– more than 540 00:30:48.210 --> 00:30:52.710 a handful of indie wrestlers or even WWE, TNA, ROH 541 00:30:52.730 --> 00:30:55.829 wrestlers in the long run in that the funding that 542 00:30:55.890 --> 00:30:59.380 Flow Sports is injecting into the wrestling industry on a 543 00:30:59.410 --> 00:31:03.420 lower level than WWE is creating some job opportunities for 544 00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:05.799 people to work full-time who otherwise might have had to 545 00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:06.400 look elsewhere. 546 00:31:07.779 --> 00:31:10.000 Well, there's a lot of opportunities right now. It's very 547 00:31:10.019 --> 00:31:13.200 competitive and a lot of guys are making a living 548 00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:16.329 outside of WWE and compared to like five years ago. 549 00:31:16.390 --> 00:31:19.029 It's a completely different world right now. But yeah, it 550 00:31:19.049 --> 00:31:19.569 definitely helps. 551 00:31:19.609 --> 00:31:22.490 I mean, I'm, you know, before I was a year ago, 552 00:31:22.569 --> 00:31:25.819 we were doing two shows every six to eight weeks. 553 00:31:26.539 --> 00:31:29.000 And now we have to produce five live events a month. 554 00:31:29.380 --> 00:31:32.900 So right there, you know, that's a big difference. But yeah, 555 00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:34.799 I mean, this is only going to help the health 556 00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:36.609 of independent wrestling. There's no doubt about that. 557 00:31:37.109 --> 00:31:39.130 There's a trickle-down effect in the sense that there'll be 558 00:31:39.170 --> 00:31:42.150 wrestlers who otherwise might have said, you know, I just 559 00:31:42.170 --> 00:31:44.710 can't do this anymore. um, there's, there's not enough money 560 00:31:44.750 --> 00:31:47.329 in it. More, some of those, there'll be more wrestlers 561 00:31:47.390 --> 00:31:49.250 earning livings because of this deal. 562 00:31:50.549 --> 00:31:53.750 Well, I believe with, with, uh, with flow slam and 563 00:31:53.789 --> 00:31:55.190 the fact that we're able to put on more shows, 564 00:31:55.450 --> 00:31:56.539 but I mean, a lot of it has to do 565 00:31:56.579 --> 00:31:59.099 with the, I don't hear that from wrestlers anymore because 566 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.359 they look at what's going on in WWE. And you 567 00:32:01.380 --> 00:32:03.240 look at the guys, I mean, in the last year 568 00:32:03.259 --> 00:32:07.700 and evolve, we've had TJ Perkins, Cedric Alexander, um, drew Gulak, 569 00:32:07.740 --> 00:32:10.799 Tony niece. Um, you know, we had Rick Swan before that, 570 00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:13.710 this music who's now in their system, um, And those 571 00:32:13.769 --> 00:32:16.589 are guys, Roderick Strong was going to have a run 572 00:32:16.609 --> 00:32:18.990 with us, and then he got signed. You know, Tommy End, 573 00:32:19.369 --> 00:32:21.849 Johnny Gargano was a mainstay with us. I mean, that's 574 00:32:21.910 --> 00:32:24.390 a lot of guys that have wrestled in Evolve in 575 00:32:24.410 --> 00:32:27.150 the last year that have now moved on to WWE 576 00:32:27.170 --> 00:32:30.640 that two years ago probably wouldn't have been taken, or 577 00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:33.519 even a year ago wouldn't have been taken. So people 578 00:32:33.619 --> 00:32:38.420 see that the opportunity is there. And now I believe 579 00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:42.099 that these wrestlers are more motivated than ever because there's 580 00:32:42.140 --> 00:32:43.759 an end goal this isn't like the kind of thing 581 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:46.480 where they can scratch out selling some t-shirts on the 582 00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.029 indies and making a payday there now there's a place 583 00:32:50.049 --> 00:32:53.410 to go and there's opportunity and I believe a lot 584 00:32:53.430 --> 00:32:55.529 of these guys are going to take full advantage of 585 00:32:55.549 --> 00:32:59.470 that and make the most out of it so it's 586 00:32:59.509
--> 00:33:01.309 a great time to be a professional wrestler right now 587 00:33:01.390 --> 00:33:03.470 I'll just put it that way five years ago it 588 00:33:03.509 --> 00:33:05.410 wasn't a great time there was a lot of motivation 589 00:33:05.430 --> 00:33:07.329 that you had to do now it's a great. 590 00:33:07.190 --> 00:33:09.519 Time Are you more excited than you've been in a while? 591 00:33:11.349 --> 00:33:15.519 I can't wait to like the, the, when we get 592 00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:18.059 everything all set black Friday week and people see what 593 00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:19.420 the vision of this is going to be. And I 594 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:21.740 get to dive in creative wise, it's going to be 595 00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:25.880 like the most challenging and most fulfilling and, and, and just, 596 00:33:26.420 --> 00:33:29.240 it's going to be amazing from a creative standpoint of, 597 00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:30.940 of what we're going to be able to dive in 598 00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:33.569 and do. And I can't wait to really just turn 599 00:33:33.589 --> 00:33:37.269 my full attention to it and, and, and make this happen. It's, 600 00:33:37.450 --> 00:33:41.000 it's going to be, it's, It's going to be amazing. 601 00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.460 I just can't wait to get started with it. 602 00:33:43.460 --> 00:33:46.920 Excellent, Gabe. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. 603 00:33:47.619 --> 00:33:51.420 Gabe is the VP of Talent Relations for WWN and Creative, 604 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:52.240 and also. 605 00:33:55.460 --> 00:33:58.539 Mainstay and Survivor. And opening that for Steve Austin. 606 00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:00.039 Very good. 607 00:34:00.140 --> 00:34:01.000 Thanks. 608 00:34:01.180 --> 00:34:05.640 Gabe Sapolsky here on PWTorch Livecast Interview Thursday, and we'll 609 00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:08.599 talk to him, I'm sure, soon down the line. I'm 610 00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:12.400 very much eager to see what they have going, what 611 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:16.059 is up their sleeve. I think any injection of cash 612 00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:22.130 into the wrestling industry in general, but especially at a 613 00:34:22.150 --> 00:34:24.690 lower level, to help guys have a chance to make 614 00:34:24.730 --> 00:34:25.949 some money and even just have a little bit of 615 00:34:25.989 --> 00:34:29.150 leverage when it comes to, say, an NXT deal. And go, 616 00:34:29.170 --> 00:34:31.989 you know what, this NXT deal is nice, but I 617 00:34:32.010 --> 00:34:33.849 think I'll become a better wrestler if I spend the 618 00:34:33.889 --> 00:34:37.429 next two years singing for my supper, doing things out 619 00:34:37.449 --> 00:34:39.650 in front of actual paying indie fans across the country 620 00:34:39.670 --> 00:34:42.969 and the world. And then we'll see the NXT option. 621 00:34:43.469 --> 00:34:44.800 For some people, they want to go to NXT and 622 00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:46.320 be part of that structure, and who can blame them? 623 00:34:46.429 --> 00:34:48.860 Other people are a little bit more free spirit, so 624 00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:51.400 they just want to be more entrepreneurial. And this injection 625 00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.360 of cash with this new streaming service is creating some options. 626 00:34:55.420 --> 00:34:57.599 So that's very exciting. All right, I'm going to go 627 00:34:57.659 --> 00:34:59.559 to a very short break here at the bottom of 628 00:34:59.579 --> 00:35:01.179 the hour. We're five minutes late with that. When we 629 00:35:01.219 --> 00:35:03.760 come back, Steve Austin is my guest. We've got some 630 00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:08.929 exciting things to talk about with Steve. If you're like me, 631 00:35:08.989 --> 00:35:12.750 you've got a list. Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti 632 00:35:12.769 --> 00:35:15.110 when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, 633 00:35:15.139 --> 00:35:17.039 now you can listen to him every week on the 634 00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:20.340 Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell 635 00:35:20.380 --> 00:35:20.760 you more. 636 00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:23.320 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with 637 00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:25.420 the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's 638 00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:28.389 comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. 639 00:35:28.469 --> 00:35:31.389 From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. 640 00:35:31.550 --> 00:35:33.750 The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest 641 00:35:33.769 --> 00:35:34.349 club in town. 642 00:35:34.570 --> 00:35:36.369 Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling 643 00:35:36.389 --> 00:35:40.719 life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com 644 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.920 slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible 645 00:35:43.940 --> 00:35:47.239 with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other 646 00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:49.380 iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream 647 00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:52.420 directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting 648 00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:57.869 for you every week at PWTorch VIP. You are going 649 00:35:57.929 --> 00:36:00.530 to enjoy the hell out of this Steve Austin interview. 650 00:36:00.929 --> 00:36:04.070 So here we go. With well over an hour of 651 00:36:04.090 --> 00:36:07.369 Steve Austin hitting a lot of hot button hot topics 652 00:36:07.630 --> 00:36:10.150 in current events in pro wrestling, and some UFC talk 653 00:36:10.190 --> 00:36:13.050 at the end. Ronda Rousey, Conor McGregor, some talk about 654 00:36:13.090 --> 00:36:16.360 Broken Skull Challenge. The new series starts a week from Sunday. 655 00:36:16.739 --> 00:36:18.119 The new season of that series starts a week from 656 00:36:18.139 --> 00:36:22.260 Sunday on CMT. It's a really good interview. And as 657 00:36:22.300 -->
00:36:25.610 somebody said on Twitter, while the interview was going on, 658 00:36:26.769 --> 00:36:30.230 school is in session. And we now begin that class. 659 00:36:32.150 --> 00:36:36.400 All right, we are back. and it is time for 660 00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:40.170 the second guest on the program. Returning to the show, 661 00:36:40.309 --> 00:36:42.369 Stone Cold Steve Austin. Welcome back to the show, Steve. 662 00:36:43.449 --> 00:36:44.190 What's happening, Wade? 663 00:36:44.929 --> 00:36:46.690 Always good to hear your voice, Steve. Thank you for 664 00:36:46.710 --> 00:36:49.369 taking the time to join us today. Gabe Sapolsky was 665 00:36:49.409 --> 00:36:51.969 a guest at the beginning of the show, and he 666 00:36:51.989 --> 00:36:54.079 was chuckling over being the opening act for you, and 667 00:36:54.099 --> 00:36:57.460 he said that the first big name that he ever 668 00:36:57.500 --> 00:36:59.840 called in professional wrestling when he was an assistant for 669 00:36:59.900 --> 00:37:02.260 Paul Heyman in ECW was was to call you and 670 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:05.059 give you flight information. And he was not sure if 671 00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:07.559 you'd remember him or his voice at that time, but 672 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:08.760 he was chuckling over that. 673 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.239 Well, that's pretty cool. Obviously, he's gone on to bigger 674 00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:14.070 and better things and has had a great run. And 675 00:37:14.090 --> 00:37:16.630 just from catching the back end of your conversation, sounds 676 00:37:16.670 --> 00:37:18.269 like he's got some interesting things going on. 677 00:37:19.170 --> 00:37:22.030 Absolutely, yeah. I'm excited. You know, the technology in this 678 00:37:22.070 --> 00:37:24.590 industry is so different than, I mean, every five years 679 00:37:24.610 --> 00:37:27.570 it changes. Every 10 years it is revolutionized. And the 680 00:37:27.610 --> 00:37:32.110 streaming approach changes. with WWE Network continues to be, or 681 00:37:32.130 --> 00:37:34.210 the streaming approach which WWE is doing with the network 682 00:37:34.710 --> 00:37:37.050 continues to be really exciting. I mean, for me in 683 00:37:37.070 --> 00:37:40.429 my position covering wrestling full-time to have all of these 684 00:37:40.510 --> 00:37:43.429 shows now that, I mean, it's a little overwhelming. You know, 685 00:37:43.469 --> 00:37:45.760 now the live 205 show they just announced yesterday, a 686 00:37:45.820 --> 00:37:48.460 cruiserweight show that's going to be on after SmackDown on 687 00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.940 the network, essentially expanding Tuesday nights to three hours of 688 00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:54.000 live wrestling, and all these pay-per-views that are now available 689 00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:55.980 at a much more reasonable price, so more people are 690 00:37:56.019 --> 00:37:59.420 seeing them. And now this flow, slow slam project where 691 00:37:59.460 --> 00:38:01.739 indie
wrestlers have more of an opportunity to make money. 692 00:38:02.300 --> 00:38:05.210 It's it's cool. You toiled. You've told the stories of, 693 00:38:05.369 --> 00:38:07.550 you know, tuna fish out of the can in Memphis. 694 00:38:07.650 --> 00:38:10.369 And I mean, it's tough being an indie wrestler, Steve, 695 00:38:10.530 --> 00:38:14.409 and any kind of influx of money in any era, 696 00:38:14.570 --> 00:38:17.139 any indie promoter having any kind of success generating revenue 697 00:38:17.739 --> 00:38:20.099 is really good for developing talent. I mean, that the 698 00:38:20.139 --> 00:38:24.800 time you spent outside of WCW and WWE helped shape 699 00:38:24.820 --> 00:38:28.469 the Yeah, man, the indie scene is very interesting. And obviously, 700 00:38:28.550 --> 00:38:28.989 I haven't. 701 00:38:30.460 --> 00:38:37.190 Spent a whole lot of time in it. And talking 702 00:38:37.210 --> 00:38:40.079 with Kurt Angle just last week, he's enjoying a lot 703 00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:43.980 of the creative freedom that he's able to exercise in 704 00:38:44.019 --> 00:38:45.699 that system. And of course, Kurt Angle is a Hall 705 00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:48.280 of Famer. Who knows if he'll ever back up with 706 00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:51.929 WWE or whatever. But I love that business or that 707 00:38:51.989 --> 00:38:54.570 scene seems to be thriving right now. And like Gabe 708 00:38:54.590 --> 00:38:57.329 was saying, I mean, hell, a lot of people in 709 00:38:57.349 --> 00:38:59.719 that system have gone on to WWE who might not 710 00:38:59.739 --> 00:39:01.559 have had that opportunity a while back. 711 00:39:03.230 --> 00:39:07.130 Absolutely. I want to talk about you're involved not just 712 00:39:07.190 --> 00:39:10.849 in pro wrestling still and podcasting, but also Broken Skull 713 00:39:11.030 --> 00:39:13.730 Ranch Challenge. You've got a new season coming up. When 714 00:39:13.750 --> 00:39:15.690 does that premiere on CMT? Is that next? Is it 715 00:39:15.730 --> 00:39:17.360 next Wednesday? I meant to look it up. 716 00:39:17.429 --> 00:39:19.570 No, no, it's going to be on. I'm glad you 717 00:39:19.590 --> 00:39:21.809 brought that up. It's going to be November 13th, 10, 718 00:39:21.809 --> 00:39:26.139 9 central on CMT. It's Broken Skull Challenge season 4. 719 00:39:26.139 --> 00:39:28.780 I'm looking forward to it, man. We scoured the United 720 00:39:28.820 --> 00:39:32.969 States for the best CrossFit athletes, amateur wrestlers, Spartan racers, 721 00:39:33.030 --> 00:39:36.960 Tough Mudders. We had some UFC people come down this year. So, 722 00:39:37.460 --> 00:39:40.239 you know, the show started off. People wondered what it was. 723 00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:41.940 And all of a sudden, man, we've got the best 724 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:44.800 of the best from the Spartan world. And obstacle course 725 00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:47.800 racing is really starting to get big in the United States. 726 00:39:47.860 --> 00:39:49.860 It has been over the past five or ten years. 727 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:53.289 It's even bigger over in Europe. So now we're getting 728 00:39:53.309 --> 00:39:54.610 some of the cream of the crop coming out to 729 00:39:54.630 --> 00:39:56.969 the show because, you know, it's a great opportunity. They 730 00:39:57.010 --> 00:39:59.750 see how tough it is. The course is one, and 731 00:39:59.849 --> 00:40:01.630 ours is like a sprint course as far as an 732 00:40:01.769 --> 00:40:04.769 obstacle course would be because a lot of these people 733 00:40:04.789 --> 00:40:07.949 are running three-, four-mile obstacle course races and even longer. 734 00:40:08.590 --> 00:40:11.340 Ours is a half-mile with 10 badass obstacles, so it's 735 00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:14.320 more like a sprint for some of these cats. But nonetheless, 736 00:40:14.380 --> 00:40:17.039 you've got to go through three rounds of tough head-to-head 737 00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:20.800 competition with another individual that may not be as good 738 00:40:20.860 --> 00:40:24.179 of a– uh, OCR athlete as you are, but maybe 739 00:40:24.260 --> 00:40:26.670 just one bad stick of wood and may send you 740 00:40:26.730 --> 00:40:29.670 home entrenched or may send you home because their body 741 00:40:29.710 --> 00:40:31.809 and their mind is more designed to, uh, for a 742 00:40:31.829 --> 00:40:34.590 specific challenge to send you home. So, Hey man, it's 743 00:40:34.630 --> 00:40:37.079 competition at its best. It's the only competition show on 744 00:40:37.739 --> 00:40:40.760 television where it's head to head combat in the first round. 745 00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:42.800 And then of course, at the end, which is called 746 00:40:42.820 --> 00:40:45.210 a skill buster. So it's, I created a show with 747 00:40:45.250 --> 00:40:47.849 a friend of mine. We pitched to CMT. They had 748 00:40:47.869 --> 00:40:50.590 the guts enough to pick it up, and people have 749 00:40:50.610 --> 00:40:54.800 been flocking to that channel, CMT, Channel 327 on DirecTV 750 00:40:55.070 --> 00:40:58.070 ever since. And so I love the show. I love 751 00:40:58.090 --> 00:41:01.679 filming the show. I just really enjoy the reality television 752 00:41:01.699 --> 00:41:02.420 space of TV. 753 00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:05.659 I know from the previous times we've talked about this 754 00:41:05.739 --> 00:41:10.420 on this show, this is kind of scratching an itch 755 00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:13.469 that you have to be involved in something where there's 756 00:41:13.550 --> 00:41:16.650 all these different boxes that get checked. One, you get 757 00:41:16.690 --> 00:41:21.250 to be around athletes being competitive. It's intense. It's television. 758 00:41:21.690 --> 00:41:25.739 You're on camera. And the other aspect, which I know 759 00:41:25.929 --> 00:41:28.059 is something that drove you too, is just the business side. 760 00:41:28.099 --> 00:41:31.000 How are the ratings? What are the demographics? All of that. 761
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:34.000 To me, I know when you talk about it and 762 00:41:34.039 --> 00:41:36.400 just seeing you on the show, this isn't something that 763 00:41:36.460 --> 00:41:38.139 somebody came to you and said, hey, we need a 764 00:41:38.179 --> 00:41:42.269 star who's the face of this show. You actually, I think, 765 00:41:42.309 --> 00:41:45.070 are really immersed in this, and it's a really fulfilling 766 00:41:45.110 --> 00:41:45.710 project for you. 767 00:41:46.690 --> 00:41:49.079 Well, it really is, and I love the project. A 768 00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:51.599 few years ago, I was at my ranch in South Texas. 769 00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:54.159 As a matter of fact, Shawn Michaels was down there. 770 00:41:54.179 --> 00:41:56.179 We were in the yard shooting our bows at Target's. 771 00:41:56.860 --> 00:41:59.840 I got a phone call from my agent, and CMT said, hey, man, 772 00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:01.699 we want to see if Steve wants to host a 773 00:42:01.739 --> 00:42:04.760 show we've got called Redneck Island. Well, they explained that 774 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:07.739 to me. We got the business numbers right. I said, okay, 775 00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:11.000 we'll jump in here. I'll host a show for you, 776 00:42:11.380 --> 00:42:14.460 but in return, we want to pitch you a specific 777 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.559 show that we've got. So when we went in there, 778 00:42:17.579 --> 00:42:21.250 we had five successful seasons with Redneck Island, discontinued. and 779 00:42:21.289 --> 00:42:24.150 now we're going into season four of Broken Skull Challenge. 780 00:42:24.170 --> 00:42:27.289 But they love this idea. And again, yeah, no one 781 00:42:27.349 --> 00:42:30.710 hired me on. It was my pitch to CMT, 51 782 00:42:30.710 --> 00:42:34.570 Minds is our production company. And I didn't think CMT 783 00:42:34.590 --> 00:42:36.170 was going to buy into it because I thought they 784 00:42:36.190 --> 00:42:39.309 were looking for something a little bit more humor-based, something 785 00:42:39.329 --> 00:42:42.630 almost like Wipeout. And they said, no, no, no. They said, 786 00:42:42.650 --> 00:42:46.110 let's go hardcore. Let's go badass competition. I said, that's 787 00:42:46.130 --> 00:42:48.670 what I'm talking about because that's what I wanted to see. 788 00:42:48.730 --> 00:42:51.829 And Wade, throughout my whole entire life, whether it's Little 789 00:42:51.869 --> 00:42:56.889 League Baseball, high school football, college football, track, and into 790 00:42:56.929 --> 00:43:02.139 my competitive years as a professional wrestler, wrestling is a work, 791 00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:05.920 but I love hardcore, heavy-duty competition. Didn't see anything like 792 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:08.960 it on television. You've got some other shows that have 793 00:43:08.980 --> 00:43:11.480 been sprung out of Broken Skull Challenge, and of course 794 00:43:11.500 --> 00:43:15.019 you used to have Gladiators back in the day. You've 795
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:17.219 got American Ninja Warrior, which is a great show, but 796 00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:20.420 those are people running against the course. They're not going 797 00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:22.940 head-to-head with the bad son of a bitch before you 798 00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.920 can get the right to run that skullbuster. So I 799 00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:29.539 dig it. And while we're filming, because we filmed that 800 00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:32.260 show about 50 miles out of L.A., and rather than 801 00:43:32.300 --> 00:43:34.510 drive back and forth to set every single day, that 802 00:43:34.530 --> 00:43:36.909 would take too much time to be able to get 803 00:43:37.090 --> 00:43:40.360 both of my podcasts in. to get my workout in, 804 00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:42.320 to get some copy down just as far as the 805 00:43:42.380 --> 00:43:45.329 rules go from everything from there, you know, everything is 806 00:43:45.349 --> 00:43:47.750 an ad lib, but I live out there on set 807 00:43:47.769 --> 00:43:49.769 in a bad ass trailer. I've got a gym, I've 808 00:43:49.789 --> 00:43:51.750 got my Kawasaki Mule that I trek around in the 809 00:43:51.769 --> 00:43:54.389 mountains on. So, you know, even though you work your 810 00:43:54.469 --> 00:43:56.489 ass off all day and it's kind of like working 811 00:43:56.510 --> 00:43:59.730 in a sandblaster because you're on a mountain in a desert, 812 00:43:59.769 --> 00:44:05.130 the wind is constantly blowing. Sometimes it's 104, sometimes it's 34. 813 00:44:05.130 --> 00:44:08.219 So it's a challenging environment. But, you know, when you're 814 00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:09.900 out there hanging out with the best athletes in the 815 00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:13.059 world and how highly competitive these men and women are, 816 00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:16.219 and your job is to make them look like superstars, 817 00:44:16.579 --> 00:44:19.730 your job is to provide them, you know, a place 818 00:44:19.809 --> 00:44:25.369 for level competition, straight up, no BS. And that's what 819 00:44:25.409 --> 00:44:26.130 I like about the show. 820 00:44:28.869 --> 00:44:32.280 Absolutely. And the show, I mean, I've watched some of 821 00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:34.840 the show. and I get a kick out of it. 822 00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:36.340 I get drawn into it. If I don't even know 823 00:44:36.409 --> 00:44:38.050 it's on and I'm flipping through the channel, I'm like, 824 00:44:38.090 --> 00:44:39.570 I've got to turn this on and watch this. And 825 00:44:39.909 --> 00:44:45.010 I really like the intensity and the seriousness of the 826 00:44:45.050 --> 00:44:47.230 competitors on the show. I'm going to use that as 827 00:44:47.250 --> 00:44:50.250 a little parlay into wrestling philosophy. One of the things 828 00:44:50.289 --> 00:44:51.929 that's going on, and I know you're not watching Raw 829 00:44:51.949 --> 00:44:56.389 every week, you're busy with other stuff, is frivolity. Todd 830 00:44:56.429 --> 00:44:58.849 Martin introduced that term to me as, I think, a 831 00:44:58.889 --> 00:45:02.579 fitting term. Main event acts right now in WWE are 832 00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:06.159 involved in frivolity, a lot of humor. And I'm entertained 833 00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:08.599 by the segments. I see why they think it'll entertain 834 00:45:08.619 --> 00:45:12.219 their audience. What I'm missing right now, and I'm curious 835 00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:16.510 from what you're sampling and watching of WWE lately, if 836 00:45:16.590 --> 00:45:19.670 it's a top critique of yours, because everybody's got their 837 00:45:19.710 --> 00:45:22.329 ideas and Vince has bombarded with them. I want to 838 00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:26.630 see that sense of, even though it's a simulation or 839 00:45:26.670 --> 00:45:28.809 a work or whatever label you put on it, I 840 00:45:28.929 --> 00:45:31.349 miss right now, and I've realized it over the last month, 841 00:45:31.530 --> 00:45:35.309 it really clicked. I miss that sense of intensity and 842 00:45:35.449 --> 00:45:39.780 competition that pulls me into that aspect of the wrestling show. 843 00:45:39.820 --> 00:45:42.559 And I'm seeing a little too much of what WWE 844 00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:46.019 and Vince call the sports entertainment aspect of it. That's 845 00:45:46.059 --> 00:45:48.380 one of the reasons I like Charlotte and Sasha Banks 846 00:45:48.420 --> 00:45:52.059 and their feud. Even though it's not– the promos aren't 847 00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:55.119 perfect in the category that I'm speaking of, it gets 848 00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:59.460 a really good grade. It feels like they're competing– They're intense, 849 00:45:59.619 --> 00:46:02.340 and they want to win, and then they want to 850 00:46:02.409 --> 00:46:04.949 celebrate victory, and they're going to be in agony if 851 00:46:04.969 --> 00:46:08.030 they get defeated. Does that jump out to you as 852 00:46:08.130 --> 00:46:12.289 kind of uniquely different in today's scene than in past eras, 853 00:46:12.329 --> 00:46:14.230 that there's a lot more frivolity at the top of 854 00:46:14.269 --> 00:46:15.630 the card rather than mid-card and lower? 855 00:46:16.909 --> 00:46:18.820 Man, I think there is a lot of that going 856 00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:21.320 on right now, just because last night I got on 857 00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:23.760 DVR and watched SmackDown, and I was watching the angle 858 00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:27.760 between AJ Styles and Dean Ambrose. And what's the name 859 00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:28.940 of the kid that got involved in that? 860 00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:30.440 James Ellsworth. 861 00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:34.699 Ellsworth. Now, guy, I give props to the kid. He's 862 00:46:34.739 --> 00:46:37.739 doing his job and he's doing a good job of it. 863 00:46:38.690 --> 00:46:42.909 You know, it's interesting, but I go back, you know, 864 00:46:42.949 --> 00:46:45.269 I'm old school. I'm 51. So I go back to 865 00:46:45.289 --> 00:46:48.699
the hardcore days of that Attitude Era stuff when Man, 866 00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:51.159 I believe it was 100% real. And, you know, of course, 867 00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:53.690 everybody knows that when I speak of the Attitude Era, 868 00:46:53.789 --> 00:46:56.869 my favorite era, my personally favorite era is stuff in 869 00:46:56.889 --> 00:47:01.800 the mid-' 80s. All that NWA stuff, the world-class stuff, the 870 00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:05.000 stuff that Bill Watts was doing. And, you know, AWA 871 00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:06.340 was kind of starting to get on a little bit 872 00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:08.860 of a decline at that point. WWF was still slipping 873 00:47:08.900 --> 00:47:12.909 on banana peels. So that's my favorite stuff. To go 874 00:47:12.929 --> 00:47:16.550 back to what you're saying about the frivolity, man, a 875 00:47:16.670 --> 00:47:19.210 little bit here and there, but in your top angles, man, 876 00:47:19.269 --> 00:47:22.309 I see a hard time drawing money with that to 877 00:47:22.329 --> 00:47:22.849 the arenas. 878 00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:27.119 You know that last segment you're just listening to and 879 00:47:27.139 --> 00:47:29.179 the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those 880 00:47:29.219 --> 00:47:31.719 can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You 881 00:47:31.739 --> 00:47:35.900 can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash 882 00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:40.650 GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash govip. 883 00:47:40.989 --> 00:47:44.710 Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account, 884 00:47:44.829 --> 00:47:46.769 through Patreon, which by the way, you can sync up 885 00:47:46.809 --> 00:47:49.980 with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app. 886 00:47:50.139 --> 00:47:52.980 With a full VIP membership, you can customize the feed 887 00:47:53.019 --> 00:47:56.360 for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go 888 00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:00.039 to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on all the 889 00:48:00.179 --> 00:48:03.650 options to listen commercial free. And with upper tier options, 890 00:48:03.989 --> 00:48:07.070 unlock our VIP exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week 891 00:48:07.130 --> 00:48:13.590 every week. That's the issue. WWE is not just in 892 00:48:13.610 --> 00:48:18.250 the business of attracting fans who don't like pro wrestling 893 00:48:18.329 --> 00:48:22.159 to watch Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Their business is 894 00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:25.199 now getting a lot of people, millions of people, to 895 00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:28.139 pay $ 10 a month primarily to see wrestling shows, with 896 00:48:28.179 --> 00:48:30.219 all due respect to the hidden camera prank shows and 897 00:48:30.579 --> 00:48:32.780 the McFoley reality series and that kind of thing, or 898 00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:37.760 Legends House. It is driven by the competition. in the 899 00:48:37.820 --> 00:48:40.940 culmination of everything on TV leading to a match. And 900 00:48:40.980 --> 00:48:42.980 I think they're undercutting that a little bit in their 901 00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.500 attempt to just hang on to the ratings or appeal 902 00:48:45.539 --> 00:48:48.969 to people who don't want to see two personalities clash. 903 00:48:49.429 --> 00:48:53.510 Triple H, though, and his role and everybody with NXT 904 00:48:54.090 --> 00:48:56.550 continue to create a wrestling product that still clicks with 905 00:48:56.590 --> 00:49:00.230 me so much in all these little things that they do. 906 00:49:01.050 --> 00:49:03.510 I know you see some of the NXT TakeOver specials, 907 00:49:03.550 --> 00:49:05.920 probably not too much of the weekly TV show. But 908 00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:08.800 kind of big picture, do you recognize when you see 909 00:49:08.920 --> 00:49:14.409 NXT something that reminds you of the best eras of 910 00:49:14.449 --> 00:49:16.349 wrestling that you were either part of as a wrestler 911 00:49:16.730 --> 00:49:18.769 or watched as a fan? Because I think there's some 912 00:49:18.829 --> 00:49:22.179 timeless elements that are present in NXT that are clicking 913 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:24.760 with me that WWE maybe has lost their way on 914 00:49:24.780 --> 00:49:25.139 a little bit. 915 00:49:26.139 --> 00:49:28.619 Well, I think it's just basically the simplicity of the show. 916 00:49:28.909 --> 00:49:31.590 I mean, you don't have, I mean, you've got these 917 00:49:31.710 --> 00:49:35.469 angles that are wrestling-based. The announcers are staying within the system. 918 00:49:35.489 --> 00:49:38.230 They're not talking about anything going on in pop culture anymore. 919 00:49:38.989 --> 00:49:41.809 You know, go back, shoot several months ago when, you know, 920 00:49:42.050 --> 00:49:47.840 I think Corey made the comment that, you know, Bobby 921 00:49:47.889 --> 00:49:50.239 Roode had flown in because he wanted to spend his 922 00:49:50.420 --> 00:49:54.480 least amount of time in Manhattan as possible. So just 923 00:49:54.519 --> 00:49:57.519 sticking within those parameters and announcing, I think, is a 924 00:49:57.539 --> 00:50:00.090 little bit better on the NXT front right now. But 925 00:50:00.130 --> 00:50:03.579 just the action in the ring. it's a better look. 926 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:05.719 It's kind of dimmed down a little bit. It's not 927 00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:08.159 too dark. I thought Lucha Underground was too dark this 928 00:50:08.199 --> 00:50:11.780 year from a visual standpoint. I like the production values. 929 00:50:12.440 --> 00:50:14.059 I like their interest in music. I like what they're 930 00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:16.260 doing in the ring. Of course, they've got one of 931 00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:20.159 my favorite tag teams down there with Revival, and I 932 00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:25.860 like what they're doing. Monday Night Raw, and again, credit 933 00:50:25.900 --> 00:50:28.780 or
smackdown, credit to the James Elwood guy. He's doing 934 00:50:28.820 --> 00:50:31.789 a great job, but Man, I'm all about the serious stuff. 935 00:50:31.909 --> 00:50:36.190 You know, wrestling is a very serious subject for me. 936 00:50:36.329 --> 00:50:38.630 And people would sit out there and say, well, you 937 00:50:38.849 --> 00:50:40.929 did a lot of comedy, Steve. Well, yeah, I did. 938 00:50:40.949 --> 00:50:42.650 I had three broke bones in my back. I had 939 00:50:42.670 --> 00:50:44.969 to do something to be an entertainer. So I went 940 00:50:45.030 --> 00:50:47.090 out and did what I did, push the envelope creatively. 941 00:50:47.130 --> 00:50:49.230 But still, at the end of the day, I took 942 00:50:49.269 --> 00:50:52.070 what I did very seriously. So anyway, just not to 943 00:50:52.110 --> 00:50:54.159 beat a dead horse, I'm with you on that. And 944 00:50:54.500 --> 00:50:57.579 this is not an indictment from Steve Austin onto the company. 945 00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:00.030 You know, it's just... They're following their vision, their path. 946 00:51:00.329 --> 00:51:02.610 Let me ask you a question, Wade, because you talk 947 00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:06.960 about how, you know, much the network is doing right now. 948 00:51:07.420 --> 00:51:09.360 As a business model, I think it was a very 949 00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:11.119 smart call for Vince to make the move. They had 950 00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:13.500 their headaches before they, you know, with the launch and 951 00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:16.539 all the problems it had after that. But is that 952 00:51:16.579 --> 00:51:19.320 thing spinning up and is the subscription rate where they 953 00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:21.409 wanted it or needed it to be at this point 954 00:51:21.449 --> 00:51:22.909 with all the countries now being involved? 955 00:51:25.269 --> 00:51:28.099 It's a complicated answer. I think that they're in a 956 00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:31.239 good place, but I also think they had an unrealistic, 957 00:51:32.019 --> 00:51:36.480 unrealistically high idea of how many lapsed fans or how 958 00:51:36.500 --> 00:51:39.380 many fans were priced out of the marketplace because of 959 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:42.159 the $ 55 pay-per-view price point, how many of them would 960 00:51:42.219 --> 00:51:44.900 come in among the raw audience. But they've got a 961 00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:49.889 million subscribers domestically now, and they've got, you know, two 962 00:51:49.909 --> 00:51:54.360 to 3 million people watching Ron Smackdown at any given time. Um, 963 00:51:54.809 --> 00:51:56.789 I think that's a pretty good percentage. And I think 964 00:51:56.829 --> 00:51:58.449 it's unrealistic for them to think they're going to get 965 00:51:58.510 --> 00:52:00.309 a lot more than that. I think it's going to 966 00:52:00.349 --> 00:52:04.130 be incremental. But it's a sustainable amount of revenue coming 967 00:52:04.230 --> 00:52:06.110 in when they've got about a half a million internationally 968 00:52:06.590 --> 00:52:09.909 and about a million domestically. The international markets, I think 969 00:52:09.949 --> 00:52:14.179 they found out, are more difficult to traverse than they 970 00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:18.239 expected because every country has a different– I was talking 971 00:52:18.260 --> 00:52:21.639 to Gabe Sapolsky about this. Our wrestling fans eight years 972 00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:24.219 ago or let's say even 14 years ago, they're like– 973 00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:26.920 I can get a VHS tape of an ROH or 974 00:52:26.940 --> 00:52:30.019 going back further, an ECW house show. Wow, this is great. 975 00:52:30.940 --> 00:52:32.539 It was like a window into a world they didn't 976 00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:35.500 have access to, and they paid $ 25 for it. And 977 00:52:35.559 --> 00:52:38.360 now you tell them, hey, well, you pay $ 20 and 978 00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:41.719 have access to our entire library and five live shows 979 00:52:41.860 --> 00:52:45.150 and counting each month. They're like, eh, $ 3 per show, 980 00:52:45.610 --> 00:52:49.469 little pricey for me. And WWE is running into that 981 00:52:49.530 --> 00:52:53.619 different culture internationally where different countries– have different infrastructure for 982 00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:56.519 the technology, but also a very different attitude towards paying 983 00:52:56.639 --> 00:52:59.500 for content. And it just takes a lot of work. 984 00:53:00.889 --> 00:53:03.610 It's like the election in each state. Each state has 985 00:53:03.619 --> 00:53:07.130 different voting rules, has a different demographic, has a different 986 00:53:07.150 --> 00:53:09.550 history of voting. And each campaign is trying to figure 987 00:53:09.590 --> 00:53:11.889 out how to get out the vote. That's WWE in 988 00:53:11.929 --> 00:53:14.289 each country. So I think it's going to be more 989 00:53:14.349 --> 00:53:18.429 stone cutting. It's going to be each quarter in each year, 990 00:53:18.449 --> 00:53:21.690 they're going to have to work for every 50,000 subscribers 991 00:53:21.750 --> 00:53:26.050 they gain. But I think it's a growing technology, not 992 00:53:26.090 --> 00:53:29.929 a retracting one. And therefore, it absolutely makes sense for 993 00:53:29.949 --> 00:53:32.480 them to be putting their time, money, and resources into it. 994 00:53:33.179 --> 00:53:35.139 I just don't think that they can double that. I 995 00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:36.739 don't think they can double the numbers they have right 996 00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:39.780 now unless, and this is the punchline to my answer 997 00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:42.599 to your question, what they need to do now more 998 00:53:42.760 --> 00:53:45.840 is not tell people about the technology or add more 999 00:53:45.900 --> 00:53:48.940 diverse shows. What they need to do is create a 1000 00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:52.539 few stars. and an atmosphere that goes back to what 1001 00:53:52.619 --> 00:53:55.739 I like
about your reality show, which is people who 1002 00:53:55.800 --> 00:53:59.000 are really intense, and they're great athletes, and they convince 1003 00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:01.699 me that they're fighting for a prize that counts. And 1004 00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:05.400 that right now is sort of my theme of my 1005 00:54:05.500 --> 00:54:09.440 commentary on WWE, is they need to get people thinking 1006 00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:12.800 Kevin Owens is a badass. He's not just Chris Jericho's 1007 00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:16.280 best pal. They have to get people convinced that Roman 1008 00:54:16.340 --> 00:54:20.989 Reigns isn't just a corporate... action figure who Vince McMahon 1009 00:54:21.030 --> 00:54:23.409 is obsessed with getting over, they need to convince people 1010 00:54:23.469 --> 00:54:25.269 Roman Reigns is a real person, which, by the way, 1011 00:54:25.329 --> 00:54:28.949 he is, and a cool guy who really cares deeply 1012 00:54:29.010 --> 00:54:32.199 about winning matches and then goes out there and continues 1013 00:54:32.219 --> 00:54:33.579 to do what he's been doing, which is having really 1014 00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:37.119 good matches with really good opponents. But there's so much 1015 00:54:37.179 --> 00:54:39.780 distraction from that with all the other things that people 1016 00:54:39.820 --> 00:54:43.280 in the corporate headquarters are concerned about. They need wrestling 1017 00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:46.900 people to get wrestling fans excited about wrestling stars again. 1018 00:54:47.380 --> 00:54:49.500 that's their key to growth right now and i just 1019 00:54:49.539 --> 00:54:51.559 don't think that's where their mindset has been the last 1020 00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:52.099 few years. 1021 00:54:52.980 --> 00:54:54.659 It doesn't seem i guess where the mindset has been 1022 00:54:54.699 --> 00:54:57.159 the last few years and just as far as you 1023 00:54:57.219 --> 00:55:01.480 know character development or serious characters so or serious you 1024 00:55:01.719 --> 00:55:05.920 know wrestlers and you know it just it just seems 1025 00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:09.239 like they're they're catering to a younger crowd to me 1026 00:55:09.260 --> 00:55:11.260 uh you know when i watch it just seems like 1027 00:55:11.300 --> 00:55:14.199 they're catering to a younger crowd and I don't know. 1028 00:55:14.460 --> 00:55:16.940 I know you want to have a young fan base 1029 00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:19.440 that grows up being a fan, but man, to me, 1030 00:55:19.460 --> 00:55:23.000 you do that by having guys that are over, guys 1031 00:55:23.019 --> 00:55:27.949 that mean something, guys that can actually work in a 1032 00:55:28.010 --> 00:55:30.409 ring at a high rate, talk you into the building, 1033 00:55:31.389 --> 00:55:34.010 have a well-rounded character that you can believe in, love 1034 00:55:34.050 --> 00:55:39.309 or hate. And work on those things. I mean, you 1035 00:55:39.670 --> 00:55:41.849 list to me the guys right now
that you think 1036 00:55:41.909 --> 00:55:43.590 on the Raw product are over. 1037 00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:49.179 I don't think there's– on the Raw product, I don't 1038 00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:52.940 know that you can point to individual– especially male wrestlers. 1039 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:56.840 I think Charlotte's over at– Charlotte, to me, in the 1040 00:55:56.900 --> 00:55:59.639 way that she's presented and carries herself, actually taps into 1041 00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:02.300 what I'm saying and what I think is missing. Because 1042 00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:04.500 when I think of who's over on Raw– I don't 1043 00:56:04.539 --> 00:56:07.059 think who's getting laughs or who are people entertained by. 1044 00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:10.940 I think who's over, that list is always short in 1045 00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:14.719 wrestling by the definition that counts the most. Who's over 1046 00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:18.239 means who's drawing money and who do people care about 1047 00:56:18.280 --> 00:56:20.570 whether they win or lose. And I think people are 1048 00:56:20.590 --> 00:56:22.329 interested in seeing Charlotte lose. 1049 00:56:23.590 --> 00:56:27.210 Well, and just to jump on, you get in on 1050 00:56:27.230 --> 00:56:30.269 the Charlotte thing there. I mean, she carries herself like 1051 00:56:30.309 --> 00:56:33.090 a professional wrestler. She ain't no sports entertainer. I mean, 1052 00:56:33.420 --> 00:56:36.219 that might be what her title is underneath her contract. 1053 00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:41.119 But everything she says, does, or how she works, how 1054 00:56:41.179 --> 00:56:44.760 she carries herself with her composure, she's a winner. And 1055 00:56:45.139 --> 00:56:47.400 she is a pro wrestler. She ain't trying to be one. 1056 00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:51.199 She is one. And I think a lot of Sasha 1057 00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:54.000 Banks as well. But Charlotte, I give the nod to 1058 00:56:54.039 --> 00:56:57.079 just with a little bit of a, I mean, just regardless, 1059 00:56:57.179 --> 00:57:00.829 I mean, She's second generation. I mean, she's almost just 1060 00:57:00.869 --> 00:57:03.409 like her father, but she's completely different. So I don't 1061 00:57:03.429 --> 00:57:06.789 want to take any credit away from her. But, of course, 1062 00:57:06.989 --> 00:57:09.170 Ric Flair is the greatest of all time. But that 1063 00:57:09.230 --> 00:57:12.309 young lady, she reminds me of what pro wrestling is 1064 00:57:12.349 --> 00:57:15.489 supposed to be. And when her and Sasha are out there, 1065 00:57:15.510 --> 00:57:17.250 I enjoyed that Hell in a Cell match. It wasn't 1066 00:57:17.269 --> 00:57:18.699 the greatest match in the world, but it was a 1067 00:57:18.739 --> 00:57:23.599 good match. And they main evented that. They headlined that card. 1068 00:57:23.780 --> 00:57:26.199 So that was awesome for those two women. But yeah, 1069 00:57:26.579 --> 00:57:29.460 when I ask you, name me the people that are 1070 00:57:29.559 --> 00:57:32.440 over on Raw. It's hard to do because I'm talking 1071 00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:34.800 about over, over. I ain't talking about getting a little 1072 00:57:34.820 --> 00:57:37.059 pop over. I'm talking about over, over. And you just 1073 00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:40.260 can't sit there and give me five guys that are over. 1074 00:57:40.739 --> 00:57:43.599 So if you went over to the SmackDown side, name 1075 00:57:43.619 --> 00:57:44.639 me your guys that are over. 1076 00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:50.320 On SmackDown, I think it's not a very long list either. 1077 00:57:51.460 --> 00:57:55.070 But I think that AJ Styles... is over, but I 1078 00:57:55.110 --> 00:57:59.860 think he's also, um, been during this gap between SmackDown 1079 00:57:59.889 --> 00:58:02.519 pay-per-views doing the bit with James Ellsworth, which I think, 1080 00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:05.159 like you say, you pay compliments. Ellsworth's great. I think 1081 00:58:05.179 --> 00:58:07.480 the storyline has been entertaining. I think for what they're doing, 1082 00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:11.260 it's been largely well-written, but it's still frivolity at a 1083 00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:13.900 main event level. It's, it's filling TV time. And I 1084 00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:18.980 think there's too many people who are filling TV time 1085 00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:22.820 to try to retain ratings and, and, it's hard to 1086 00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:27.340 pinpoint wrestlers who are over in the sense that I think, okay, 1087 00:58:27.420 --> 00:58:31.380 if I see their name on a lineup for a 1088 00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:35.519 house show, I want to go see their match. And 1089 00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:37.639 I don't know that there's anybody who's over. If you 1090 00:58:37.659 --> 00:58:39.059 use that definition, Steve, how about you? 1091 00:58:40.599 --> 00:58:42.579 No, I mean, it just, I watched your last night 1092 00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:44.820 when you say AJ Styles, because you know, hell he's 1093 00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:46.840 been in the business 18, 20 years, whatever it is, 1094 00:58:46.860 --> 00:58:50.059 you know, the guy's still performing at a very high level. And, 1095 00:58:50.670 --> 00:58:54.210 In a world that's not really real, you convince people 1096 00:58:54.250 --> 00:58:56.389 that you are real, and I think AJ Styles has 1097 00:58:56.489 --> 00:58:59.840 done that, and his work speaks for itself. The rumors 1098 00:58:59.900 --> 00:59:03.360 of an AJ Styles vs. Shawn Michaels match really perked 1099 00:59:03.400 --> 00:59:06.449 my ears up. I just didn't think Shawn would ever 1100 00:59:06.510 --> 00:59:08.730 come back, and I don't think he is, but that 1101 00:59:08.750 --> 00:59:10.760 would be an interesting match to watch. But I got 1102 00:59:10.780 --> 00:59:13.400 a lot of respect for AJ Styles and the way 1103 00:59:13.460 --> 00:59:18.280 he's conducting himself and there's kind of a little bit 1104 00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:21.239 of
humor going on here in the storyline, but his 1105 00:59:21.260 --> 00:59:23.440 work speaks for itself, and I think that's why the guy... 1106 00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:27.090 He got over. He did a couple of J-O-Bs early on. 1107 00:59:27.179 --> 00:59:29.949 People got mad about that because here's A.J. Stiles. He's 1108 00:59:29.969 --> 00:59:32.510 finally getting his opportunity at the big show. Hey, they 1109 00:59:32.530 --> 00:59:34.630 put the belt on the kid, and nothing but rocket 1110 00:59:35.369 --> 00:59:38.250 ever since. So I think a lot of that guy– 1111 00:59:38.269 --> 00:59:41.260 and before I go– I didn't want to run down 1112 00:59:41.300 --> 00:59:44.079 the entire Raw roster. I really get a kick out 1113 00:59:44.099 --> 00:59:47.090 of– it's a little bit– it's got some humor to it, 1114 00:59:47.139 --> 00:59:49.320 but I really like the angle that Kevin Owens and 1115 00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:52.940 Chris Jericho are doing with that damn Chris Jericho's list. 1116 00:59:53.539 --> 00:59:55.420 And that guy is doing some of the best work 1117 00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:57.559 of his career, so I don't want to crap on 1118 00:59:57.579 --> 01:00:00.820 the whole roster, but those two guys really entertain me. 1119 01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:04.719 But just as far as being mega over singles people, 1120 01:00:05.139 --> 01:00:07.179 it's hard to name a bunch of them. 1121 01:00:08.340 --> 01:00:10.199 You know, I agree. I think that there's a self-awareness 1122 01:00:10.239 --> 01:00:13.019 in a certain corner of WWE and even some of 1123 01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:18.659 the performers who are– entertaining and into their roles are 1124 01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:21.769 also aware that what they're doing is not main event material. 1125 01:00:22.289 --> 01:00:25.389 It's Phil TV time and kind of get over a 1126 01:00:25.449 --> 01:00:28.789 bit material. And I think Kevin Owens is a guy 1127 01:00:28.849 --> 01:00:33.750 who is being pigeonholed in a category, not, and it's 1128 01:00:33.789 --> 01:00:38.630 not insurmountable because Kevin Owens is hugely, hugely talented. I mean, really, 1129 01:00:38.650 --> 01:00:42.539 really talented personality wise into the ring, but I think 1130 01:00:42.579 --> 01:00:44.929 they need to give him an edge in the ring and, 1131 01:00:45.579 --> 01:00:51.059 And a sense of toughness that as opposed to just 1132 01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:52.980 being the guy who's always got a good one liner 1133 01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:55.050 in response to somebody else and who can go out 1134 01:00:55.070 --> 01:00:57.869 there and have good matches. And I'm just I'm worried 1135 01:00:57.889 --> 01:01:00.889 about that. You know, I'm worried that he's not this 1136 01:01:00.969 --> 01:01:04.050 is his first time on top as a world champion. 1137 01:01:04.590 --> 01:01:08.480 And the storyline rarely on commentary or promos is how 1138 01:01:08.579 --> 01:01:10.960 good he is in the ring and how tough he is. 1139 01:01:12.409 --> 01:01:14.829 It's all about what they're going to do. And I'm 1140 01:01:14.869 --> 01:01:17.159 entertained by it. It's well done, Steve. I agree with you. 1141 01:01:17.469 --> 01:01:20.619 Jericho and Owens are brilliant. But I don't know that 1142 01:01:20.659 --> 01:01:23.099 that's what draws money and sells tickets. 1143 01:01:24.039 --> 01:01:26.380 No, and I agree with you. I agree with you 1144 01:01:26.380 --> 01:01:29.250 100% as far as does Kevin Owens need to be 1145 01:01:29.269 --> 01:01:32.250 considered a more dangerous human being inside the ring or 1146 01:01:32.329 --> 01:01:34.789 have more of a serious side or a sense of 1147 01:01:34.889 --> 01:01:39.690 urgency or just more of an enhanced mean streak? and 1148 01:01:39.969 --> 01:01:43.429 just really hammered down on some people, yeah, he does 1149 01:01:43.489 --> 01:01:46.690 need that. And, you know, he's got all the tools. 1150 01:01:47.150 --> 01:01:51.800 He's not, you know, Vince's definition of a great body. But, 1151 01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:54.860 I mean, he's big enough. He's smart enough. He's strong enough. 1152 01:01:55.320 --> 01:02:00.449 He's got unique charisma. But, yeah, they need to uncork 1153 01:02:00.469 --> 01:02:02.730 that guy a little bit and just sense of urgency, 1154 01:02:02.769 --> 01:02:05.170 more violence, and, you know, he'll do whatever it takes 1155 01:02:05.190 --> 01:02:09.050 to protect that belt. And so it's an interesting storyline 1156 01:02:09.070 --> 01:02:12.710 that they're running right now. And maybe I'm not– putting 1157 01:02:12.750 --> 01:02:14.659 into the best words that I could put it into, 1158 01:02:14.699 --> 01:02:17.239 but yeah, that guy needs to be taken like, Hey man, 1159 01:02:17.579 --> 01:02:19.719 when KO comes out to the ring, you better watch 1160 01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:22.239 your ass. There's so much is bad. Yes. 1161 01:02:22.579 --> 01:02:25.780 And that's where just having to be on TV and 1162 01:02:26.300 --> 01:02:30.889 winning decisively against a lower mid card guy every once 1163 01:02:30.949 --> 01:02:34.329 in a while to remind people that he, every match that, 1164 01:02:34.389 --> 01:02:36.929 that he can destroy people. I mean, I think that's 1165 01:02:36.969 --> 01:02:40.150 a good thing to do. I have liked the return 1166 01:02:40.369 --> 01:02:45.369 to WWE TV of essentially squash matches, enhancement matches, one-sided beatdowns. 1167 01:02:45.869 --> 01:02:48.340 And I think it's good to have everybody on the 1168 01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:51.059 top third of the roster on occasion get a match 1169 01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:52.619 like that. And it doesn't have to have a big 1170 01:02:52.659 --> 01:02:55.960 story behind it. It can just be something that's weaved 1171 01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:59.019 into the product. That was a big part of WWE 1172 01:02:59.059 --> 01:03:02.179 and Vince McMahon's philosophy until Nitro started putting on main 1173 01:03:02.219 -->
01:03:05.039 events constantly and Vince McMahon didn't. got drag kicking and 1174 01:03:05.059 --> 01:03:07.920 screaming into giving away house show matches on raw almost 1175 01:03:07.980 --> 01:03:08.579 all the time. 1176 01:03:14.730 --> 01:03:17.750 Longing for some nostalgia, or maybe you want to learn 1177 01:03:17.789 --> 01:03:21.690 some wrestling history. Don't miss the nineties past cast every 1178 01:03:21.750 --> 01:03:25.070 Friday on the PW torch daily cast feed. Alex and 1179 01:03:25.110 --> 01:03:28.429 Patrick will transport you 30 years into the past by 1180 01:03:28.489 --> 01:03:31.130 taking you through the torch issue from that very week. 1181 01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:34.869 Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the 1182 01:03:34.949 --> 01:03:38.130 happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as 1183 01:03:38.170 --> 01:03:41.550 The Torch reported it 30 years ago. That's the 90s 1184 01:03:41.590 --> 01:03:45.010 Passcast every Friday on the PWTorch daily cast feed. 1185 01:03:55.510 --> 01:03:57.489 What have you thought of the return of squash matches? 1186 01:03:58.760 --> 01:04:02.980 Nia Jax has gotten some of them, Braun Strowman. Even 1187 01:04:03.139 --> 01:04:06.460 Bo Dallas, who they're trying to give rehab into something, 1188 01:04:06.599 --> 01:04:09.119 is actually getting some squash matches to try to establish 1189 01:04:09.559 --> 01:04:12.320 that he's more than just a low-card comedy guy. What's 1190 01:04:12.340 --> 01:04:14.480 your thought on that in the 2016 era? 1191 01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:20.239 Well, I still dig the squash matches, but how they're 1192 01:04:20.260 --> 01:04:23.780 doing them and what they're talking about is two different things. 1193 01:04:25.090 --> 01:04:27.289 Going back to, before I get into more of the 1194 01:04:27.329 --> 01:04:29.219 squash match stuff, first of all, I'm a fan of it. 1195 01:04:29.829 --> 01:04:31.170 Can you have too much of it? No, I don't 1196 01:04:31.190 --> 01:04:33.320 think you can. It's a special case for special people, 1197 01:04:33.860 --> 01:04:37.500 like what Braun Strowman's been doing and Nia Jax. But, 1198 01:04:37.639 --> 01:04:40.820 you know, with respect to KO, I just want to point, 1199 01:04:41.219 --> 01:04:44.000 to leave on one note, he's had so many 50-50 1200 01:04:44.059 --> 01:04:46.510 matches with, you know, guys that were really good hands, 1201 01:04:46.730 --> 01:04:49.789 mechanics in the ring. But, you know, it's almost like 1202 01:04:49.809 --> 01:04:52.269 that old Jake the Snake Roberts story. You know, Jake 1203 01:04:52.309 --> 01:04:55.969 wasn't doing so well. And Vince calls him into his 1204 01:04:56.050 --> 01:04:58.059 office and says, hey, man, what are you doing? He goes, 1205 01:04:58.079 --> 01:05:00.960 I'm trying to have good matches. And Vince says, I 1206 01:05:00.980 --> 01:05:02.760 didn't bring you here to have good matches. I brought 1207 01:05:02.780 --> 01:05:06.440 you here to get over. And so get over. And so, 1208 01:05:06.840 --> 01:05:09.679 you know, it's always the 50-50 thing on these high 1209 01:05:09.699 --> 01:05:13.250 profile pay-per-views. And sometimes it's got to be 60-40, 70-30, 1210 01:05:13.699 --> 01:05:15.719 or just go right into some heat and mess around 1211 01:05:15.739 --> 01:05:18.329 with the formula and not so much back and forth stuff. 1212 01:05:18.389 --> 01:05:21.510 But He's been in a lot of 50-50 matches, I thought, 1213 01:05:21.570 --> 01:05:24.219 with guys that didn't need to get 50% of that 1214 01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:26.460 match and just needs to be a little bit more 1215 01:05:26.539 --> 01:05:28.539 dominant of a force in there and a little bit 1216 01:05:28.579 --> 01:05:31.519 more physical. That roll and tumble in the corner or 1217 01:05:31.619 --> 01:05:34.559 against the barricade, that's one thing, but it's a whole 1218 01:05:34.599 --> 01:05:38.159 lot different than fists and kicks and stuff like that. 1219 01:05:38.659 --> 01:05:41.000 But I enjoy the squash matches. Who knows what they're 1220 01:05:41.019 --> 01:05:42.400 going to do with Braun Strowman? I had him on 1221 01:05:42.420 --> 01:05:46.340 my podcast several months ago. He was very impromptu, hard 1222 01:05:46.360 --> 01:05:48.559 to research the guy, just know he's a strong man. 1223 01:05:49.039 --> 01:05:50.699 But you sit down and talk with that guy. He's 1224 01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:54.500 a charismatic young man, big dude, still kind of has 1225 01:05:54.519 --> 01:05:56.480 that lost look in his eyes, but I'm a fan 1226 01:05:56.519 --> 01:05:59.619 of that guy. And right now he keeps, well, the 1227 01:05:59.659 --> 01:06:02.230 last thing I saw, he kept demanding for, you know, 1228 01:06:02.269 --> 01:06:04.869 higher level competition. And who came out the other day? 1229 01:06:04.969 --> 01:06:08.750 Who was that? I can't remember who popped up. Was 1230 01:06:08.769 --> 01:06:09.510 it Sammy Zane? 1231 01:06:09.530 --> 01:06:11.130 Sammy Zane, yeah, yeah, yep. 1232 01:06:11.550 --> 01:06:13.349 Yeah, so did they have that match and what happened? 1233 01:06:14.349 --> 01:06:16.929 They did a count-out finish. They kind of did a 1234 01:06:16.969 --> 01:06:20.090 non-finish for the match to kind of tease the storyline 1235 01:06:20.110 --> 01:06:20.659 going forward. 1236 01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:25.199 Okay. Well, anyway, so there again, you've got this guy 1237 01:06:25.219 --> 01:06:28.019 who's almost 400 pounds that brings Sammy out and what's 1238 01:06:28.059 --> 01:06:30.880 in a DQ or whatever. I don't think that did anything. 1239 01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:35.570 But I haven't watched enough of the product to sit 1240 01:06:35.590 --> 01:06:37.949 here and just shoot the breeze with you about all 1241 01:06:37.969 --> 01:06:40.550 the storylines. But to go back to what you asked me, 1242 01:06:40.590 --> 01:06:42.969 do I like squash matches? Yes, for the right people. 1243
01:06:44.139 --> 01:06:48.079 Yeah, yeah, exactly. In the product that– well, actually, I 1244 01:06:48.079 --> 01:06:50.050 want to ask specifically about SmackDown because you saw that. 1245 01:06:50.110 --> 01:06:53.349 You had Dean Ambrose on your show. You kind of 1246 01:06:53.369 --> 01:06:55.670 called him out. You tried to, say, step it up. 1247 01:06:55.750 --> 01:07:01.090 You saw him as a top guy who was ready, 1248 01:07:01.429 --> 01:07:04.789 had the tools to be at a top level, but 1249 01:07:04.829 --> 01:07:06.530 you're trying to give him some advice, and both of 1250 01:07:06.550 --> 01:07:10.000 you were trying to communicate to each other on that podcast, 1251 01:07:10.179 --> 01:07:13.539 and you could tell your heart was– trying to get 1252 01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:16.519 Dean to that next level. What you're seeing now with 1253 01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:21.599 Ambrose's character, taking into account it's heavily scripted, and they're 1254 01:07:21.699 --> 01:07:26.239 in between pay-per-views, so they're doing entertaining storylines that are TV-based, 1255 01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:29.179 not building to a big match necessarily. But are you 1256 01:07:29.239 --> 01:07:31.210 seeing anything different in Dean, or do you have an 1257 01:07:31.829 --> 01:07:34.469 updated evaluation of the role that he's been put in? 1258 01:07:35.590 --> 01:07:37.769 No, you know, it was weird doing that podcast with 1259 01:07:37.809 --> 01:07:40.030 Dean because a lot of people said I put him 1260 01:07:40.110 --> 01:07:43.030 on blast. The last thing I wanted to do was 1261 01:07:43.110 --> 01:07:47.730 to put the guy on blast. I probably watched six 1262 01:07:47.769 --> 01:07:50.329 or seven hours worth of interviews that that guy had done. 1263 01:07:50.349 --> 01:07:53.400 I don't know how many matches he'd done from the 1264 01:07:53.420 --> 01:07:56.860 independent scene, watching me evolve that character into a real 1265 01:07:56.920 --> 01:07:59.960 interesting person, more John Moxley or whatever the hell his 1266 01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:02.750 name was. But, you know, I thought he was really 1267 01:08:02.789 --> 01:08:05.769 doing some great stuff on the indie level and, you know, 1268 01:08:05.809 --> 01:08:10.280 within the structured confines and creatively stifled, I think was 1269 01:08:10.300 --> 01:08:13.699 the term someone used one time. Yeah, I mean, maybe 1270 01:08:14.380 --> 01:08:17.260 in that corporate setting, he can't be all that he 1271 01:08:17.319 --> 01:08:19.100 wants to be or do all the things that he 1272 01:08:19.140 --> 01:08:21.560 wants to do because they might kind of, you know, 1273 01:08:21.579 --> 01:08:23.880 get into the red line as far as what stuff 1274 01:08:23.899 --> 01:08:26.460 they want to stay away from at a corporate level. 1275 01:08:26.500 --> 01:08:30.739 But You know, he's doing fine. I never wanted to 1276 01:08:30.859 --> 01:08:34.619 call him out or put him on blast or embarrass him.
Hell, 1277 01:08:34.659 --> 01:08:36.420 I was just challenging him to step it up a 1278 01:08:36.439 --> 01:08:38.539 little bit, raise a little bit more hell. I thought 1279 01:08:38.560 --> 01:08:41.710 they'd organically take that as, you know, the riding crew 1280 01:08:41.970 --> 01:08:44.210 and put the guy up to all kinds of shenanigans, 1281 01:08:44.250 --> 01:08:47.449 whether he's, you know, kind of, here's the bad idea, 1282 01:08:47.510 --> 01:08:49.930 doing a bunch of Stone Cold stuff, driving different vehicles 1283 01:08:50.010 --> 01:08:54.300 or whatever. Just whatever. But, you know, maybe if he 1284 01:08:54.340 --> 01:08:56.090 went out on a limb, that's too far. I just 1285 01:08:56.100 --> 01:08:58.170 thought he should go out on a limb because it 1286 01:08:58.189 --> 01:09:00.770 seemed like he had flatlined a little bit. That was 1287 01:09:00.810 --> 01:09:03.350 my take on that. I was certainly not an indictment 1288 01:09:03.949 --> 01:09:06.869 on Dean or try to throw him under the bus 1289 01:09:06.930 --> 01:09:07.930 if they're on live TV. 1290 01:09:09.329 --> 01:09:15.800 The A.J. Dean interaction, again, with Dean, I want to 1291 01:09:15.880 --> 01:09:21.569 see Dean be portrayed even on commentary as touting what 1292 01:09:21.649 --> 01:09:24.600 makes him a main event wrestler, not just a sports 1293 01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:28.619 entertainer who's zany and funny, but somebody who's a badass. 1294 01:09:28.659 --> 01:09:30.460 And that's where like the squash match aspect comes in. 1295 01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:32.699 I just, I think we should have every two months 1296 01:09:32.779 --> 01:09:37.359 in our memory, a 70, 30 match, or even a 98, 1297 01:09:37.359 --> 01:09:40.510 2% match for the top stars. You know, where we're 1298 01:09:40.529 --> 01:09:43.369 reminded of that they can go out and kick some ass. 1299 01:09:43.550 --> 01:09:46.609 And I think that would help the Dean Ambrose character, uh, 1300 01:09:47.210 --> 01:09:49.430 at this point Seth Rollins to pivot him real quick 1301 01:09:49.710 --> 01:09:52.819 Steve he went from being a popular heel to being 1302 01:09:52.960 --> 01:09:57.060 a centerpiece babyface under circumstances that weren't ideal Finn Balor 1303 01:09:57.100 --> 01:09:58.979 got hurt and they had to kind of reshuffle the 1304 01:09:59.020 --> 01:10:04.420 deck have you seen enough of Seth to specifically evaluate 1305 01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:06.880 how he's handling that transition or how WWE on a 1306 01:10:06.899 --> 01:10:09.420 whole is or do you have some general advice from 1307 01:10:09.460 --> 01:10:12.630 going to a cheered heel which you were to trying 1308 01:10:12.670 --> 01:10:15.449 to appeal to the fans in the same way but 1309 01:10:15.510 --> 01:10:16.729 now you're a babyface. 1310 01:10:17.939 --> 01:10:21.189 Man, I don't know. I haven't seen enough TV. When 1311 01:10:21.210 --> 01:10:23.350 he went away from that knee surgery, I really thought 1312 01:10:23.390 --> 01:10:27.520 he'd try to reinvent or really think about who and 1313 01:10:27.539 --> 01:10:29.439 what a Seth Rollins is. I guess they call him 1314 01:10:29.460 --> 01:10:33.850 Seth freaking Rollins now. So maybe that's just a step 1315 01:10:33.890 --> 01:10:36.350 in the right direction to try to give him... A 1316 01:10:36.409 --> 01:10:39.789 little bit more of a well-rounded character because, again, if 1317 01:10:39.850 --> 01:10:41.890 I tell you Stone Cold, if I tell you The Rock, 1318 01:10:41.930 --> 01:10:44.189 if I say The Undertaker, if I say Hulk Hogan, 1319 01:10:44.470 --> 01:10:47.170 if I say John Cena, and I'm not even using 1320 01:10:47.289 --> 01:10:50.609 any nicknames, you know who and what those guys are 1321 01:10:50.649 --> 01:10:53.649 all about. You tell me Seth Rollins. Okay, Wade, you 1322 01:10:53.670 --> 01:10:59.090 tell me what this guy's about. He, sadly, his baby face. 1323 01:10:59.329 --> 01:11:01.750 What's the catch? What's the catch? What's the gimmick, okay? 1324 01:11:01.829 --> 01:11:04.170 What's the personality? I don't know. 1325 01:11:05.260 --> 01:11:06.479 I don't either. 1326 01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:10.000 And that was what I posed to him when he 1327 01:11:10.039 --> 01:11:12.539 went on his hiatus to get his knee fixed. I said, hey, man, 1328 01:11:12.560 --> 01:11:14.750 you're going to be gone for a long time. It's 1329 01:11:14.789 --> 01:11:16.869 time for you to sit back and watch what all 1330 01:11:16.909 --> 01:11:19.029 these people are doing, see who's moving the needle, think 1331 01:11:19.069 --> 01:11:22.789 about yourself and what you can do to recreate yourself 1332 01:11:22.829 --> 01:11:25.229 so that you make more of an impact. You're more 1333 01:11:25.270 --> 01:11:27.649 of a superstar. Yeah, you can work your ass off. 1334 01:11:27.670 --> 01:11:30.520 You're athletic as hell. You can do a bunch of sequences. 1335 01:11:30.949 --> 01:11:33.659 That's great. But what's really going to put ashes in 1336 01:11:33.699 --> 01:11:36.720 the seats, if you have a personality and a character 1337 01:11:37.199 --> 01:11:40.420 that people can love in or hate even more, along 1338 01:11:40.460 --> 01:11:43.659 with all your tremendous athletic ability. And so, you know, 1339 01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:45.880 you have to have a conversation with 10 people and 1340 01:11:45.899 --> 01:11:47.680 they just look at you with these blank eyes like 1341 01:11:47.779 --> 01:11:50.239 I don't get it. You know, and I was riding 1342 01:11:50.260 --> 01:11:52.479 down the road, you know, 20 years ago with Dr. 1343 01:11:52.500 --> 01:11:55.260 Tom Pritchard. He goes, what's a stunning Steve all about? 1344 01:11:55.779 --> 01:11:58.420 What does that mean? And I couldn't tell him. But 1345 01:11:58.479 --> 01:12:00.399 I can tell you what Stone Cold means. I can 1346 01:12:00.420 --> 01:12:01.859 tell you what The Undertaker means. I can tell you 1347 01:12:01.880 -->
01:12:04.619 what The Rock means. I can tell you all that stuff. 1348 01:12:05.310 --> 01:12:08.199 Seth Rollins, to me, where he's, I don't want to 1349 01:12:08.229 --> 01:12:10.210 say he's missing the boat, but he's missing a big 1350 01:12:10.250 --> 01:12:14.329 piece of the puzzle, is coming up with a personality 1351 01:12:14.390 --> 01:12:17.989 or presence or some kind of gimmick, more so than 1352 01:12:18.029 --> 01:12:20.510 just a guy named Seth frickin' Rollins. 1353 01:12:21.229 --> 01:12:24.829 Well, and his T-shirts are redesigned, rebuilt. Does that make 1354 01:12:24.869 --> 01:12:26.210 sense to you? I am 100% in agreement with you. 1355 01:12:26.250 --> 01:12:29.609 I'm nodding and smiling as you're talking because it does– 1356 01:12:29.909 --> 01:12:33.960 I mean, here you are articulating in your voice what 1357 01:12:34.180 --> 01:12:37.300 I feel and try to articulate in my voice, and 1358 01:12:37.340 --> 01:12:41.140 you're absolutely right. Seth Rollins has not been defined by– 1359 01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:44.979 redefined by using the rethink because Seth's redesigned, rebuilt, reclaimed. 1360 01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:50.369 He needs to be redefined and reframed as a– babyface 1361 01:12:50.449 --> 01:12:53.989 character who stands for something. And the biggest handicap that 1362 01:12:54.050 --> 01:12:57.510 he has been given since turning babyface is that he 1363 01:12:57.569 --> 01:13:02.810 spent a few weeks practically begging or complaining that Stephanie 1364 01:13:02.829 --> 01:13:06.840 McMahon and Triple H weren't on his side anymore backing him. 1365 01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:13.060 And so he did not turn on the heel. He 1366 01:13:13.220 --> 01:13:16.939 was turned on by the heel and replaced by Kevin Owens. 1367 01:13:17.520 --> 01:13:22.239 So we didn't have that moment of, as viewers following 1368 01:13:22.300 --> 01:13:24.960 Seth's career, to go, finally Seth has seen the light. 1369 01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:27.260 The authority aren't what he stands for. He stands for 1370 01:13:27.300 --> 01:13:30.359 something different than they do. And he broke away, and 1371 01:13:30.479 --> 01:13:33.619 all hell's going to break loose. Instead, for a few weeks, 1372 01:13:33.699 --> 01:13:36.189 he was going to Stephanie going... Why did you choose 1373 01:13:36.229 --> 01:13:38.930 Kevin and not me? Was Triple H on board too? 1374 01:13:38.949 --> 01:13:41.649 Is Triple H still like me? And it was kind 1375 01:13:41.670 --> 01:13:44.890 of sad and pathetic. And it totally undercut the pop 1376 01:13:44.909 --> 01:13:47.069 that he got when I was in Prudential Center in 1377 01:13:47.109 --> 01:13:49.819 May in New Jersey. And the pay-per-view seemed to be over. 1378 01:13:50.159 --> 01:13:52.159 And then Seth's music played and he made his return 1379 01:13:52.199 --> 01:13:56.800 after all that time off. That building exploded. They wanted 1380 01:13:57.039 --> 01:14:00.420 him to be a babyface. The difference now versus then, 1381 01:14:00.899 --> 01:14:04.239 because of television and what WWE should be doing to 1382 01:14:04.260 --> 01:14:08.069 boost a character... but instead they've undercut him, is astounding. 1383 01:14:08.409 --> 01:14:10.890 Him being off TV made him a bigger star than 1384 01:14:11.170 --> 01:14:13.550 all the hours he's been on TV since then. That's 1385 01:14:13.590 --> 01:14:14.210 frustrating to me. 1386 01:14:15.149 --> 01:14:17.590 Well, that's because he's such a good performer. People like 1387 01:14:17.630 --> 01:14:19.289 what he does in the ring, so you want to 1388 01:14:19.310 --> 01:14:21.149 see him back in a war of attrition. It's not 1389 01:14:21.220 --> 01:14:25.239 like they got just lines and lines of top guys. So, yeah, 1390 01:14:25.340 --> 01:14:30.439 there was a demand, and his absence was felt. But, man, 1391 01:14:30.460 --> 01:14:33.739 all of a sudden you come back. You need to 1392 01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:36.640 come back a little bit more with the exact same 1393 01:14:36.699 --> 01:14:40.720 thing than when you left. He's doing the same thing. 1394 01:14:41.039 --> 01:14:43.739 And so nothing changed because he didn't do his homework. 1395 01:14:44.699 --> 01:14:46.199 Here's a little thing, just because I want to sit 1396 01:14:46.220 --> 01:14:49.180 there and pick on Seth Rollins. But if you want 1397 01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:51.819 to raise to the next level, because I hope that 1398 01:14:51.859 --> 01:14:54.560 he doesn't think he's at the highest level because he's not. 1399 01:14:55.590 --> 01:14:57.119 And I'm not trying to sound like I know it all, 1400 01:14:57.159 --> 01:14:59.520 but I know a little bit. You look at a 1401 01:14:59.560 --> 01:15:03.600 guy like The Miz. I re-watched SmackDown last night and 1402 01:15:03.619 --> 01:15:06.520 just DVR'd through it. He had a Miz TV show. 1403 01:15:07.210 --> 01:15:09.909 And shoot, who was his guest out there? It was 1404 01:15:09.949 --> 01:15:13.369 Daniel Bryan. And you look at what The Miz has done. 1405 01:15:13.390 --> 01:15:16.010 About a couple years ago in a main event at WrestleMania, 1406 01:15:16.569 --> 01:15:19.649 a hell of a damn match with Dolph Ziggler. Was 1407 01:15:19.710 --> 01:15:22.529 it last time at the pay-per-view? I mean, they probably 1408 01:15:22.729 --> 01:15:25.689 stole the show. You look at what The Miz has done. 1409 01:15:25.710 --> 01:15:30.750 That guy... if you had two-thirds of your crew that 1410 01:15:30.850 --> 01:15:34.109 worked as hard as The Miz does at trying to 1411 01:15:34.170 --> 01:15:38.729 reinvent himself, dress to the nines, work on his promos, 1412 01:15:38.770 --> 01:15:41.289 I mean, he's a good-looking guy, but he's not the 1413 01:15:41.310 --> 01:15:43.750 best-looking guy in the world. He's got a decent body. 1414 01:15:43.949 --> 01:15:45.970 He's not the biggest guy in the world. He's a 1415 01:15:46.010 --> 01:15:49.550 pretty good wrestler. He's not the best
wrestler in the world. But, man, 1416 01:15:49.590 --> 01:15:53.319 I tell you what, his commitment and his– The way 1417 01:15:53.380 --> 01:15:55.899 he approaches the product and the way he approaches who 1418 01:15:55.939 --> 01:15:57.920 and what he is and what he's trying to accomplish, 1419 01:15:58.439 --> 01:16:01.239 that guy is so hungry. After all the years he's 1420 01:16:01.260 --> 01:16:05.899 been in the business, this kid continues to redefine, refine, 1421 01:16:06.279 --> 01:16:08.720 change himself. I got a lot of respect for that 1422 01:16:08.739 --> 01:16:11.550 guy because when I said the things that he's not, 1423 01:16:11.649 --> 01:16:13.789 I wasn't trying to undercut him. I was trying to 1424 01:16:13.930 --> 01:16:16.229 let you know that I think that this kid is 1425 01:16:16.310 --> 01:16:18.909 working above and beyond the talent that he has because 1426 01:16:18.949 --> 01:16:21.609 he hustles so much and he wants it so much. 1427 01:16:22.149 --> 01:16:25.359 But I don't see guys with the same hunger or 1428 01:16:25.399 --> 01:16:27.800 the same desire that the Miz has. I've got to 1429 01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:29.520 give that kid a lot of credit. I think half 1430 01:16:29.560 --> 01:16:31.619 the dressing room is missing the boat. And if you're 1431 01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:33.789 missing the boat, look what the Miz is doing. Look 1432 01:16:33.829 --> 01:16:34.789 how hungry the cat is. 1433 01:16:35.869 --> 01:16:39.229 And I 100% agree with you. I love watching Miz's 1434 01:16:39.250 --> 01:16:41.350 segments now, and I don't think anybody was harder on 1435 01:16:41.390 --> 01:16:43.300 him two years ago than I was. I mean, a 1436 01:16:43.340 --> 01:16:45.439 lot of people were hard on him. He was lost. 1437 01:16:45.979 --> 01:16:47.979 I was hard on him, too. Yeah. 1438 01:16:48.380 --> 01:16:51.340 And he found his way. And it is what you said. 1439 01:16:51.420 --> 01:16:55.760 He he he worked hard and was a student of 1440 01:16:55.800 --> 01:17:00.470 his own character in a way that finally worked. And yes, 1441 01:17:00.510 --> 01:17:02.659 he got the opportunity and he played the game behind 1442 01:17:02.689 --> 01:17:04.529 the scenes. I should call it a game. He was 1443 01:17:04.550 --> 01:17:06.510 a good employee behind the scenes. He did what he 1444 01:17:06.569 --> 01:17:09.689 gave promoters of faith that if they gave him opportunity, 1445 01:17:09.729 --> 01:17:10.949 he wasn't going to be a head case. 1446 01:17:11.300 --> 01:17:16.399 And that's important too. And he also presented ideas or 1447 01:17:16.640 --> 01:17:21.159 options or alternatives to their ideas and was, you know, 1448 01:17:22.140 --> 01:17:25.699 very engaged and very active. And you could see that 1449 01:17:25.739 --> 01:17:28.279 he cared. He's wonderful on media. He's always got a 1450 01:17:28.319 --> 01:17:30.899 smile on his face. He works his ass off. He's everywhere. 1451 01:17:31.359 --> 01:17:33.390 And he's great when he does media because you give 1452 01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:36.170 that guy a microphone and that's all you got to do. So, 1453 01:17:36.289 --> 01:17:38.470 you know, I'm not saying just blow smoke up his 1454 01:17:38.569 --> 01:17:40.909 ass all day, but When you look at what that 1455 01:17:40.949 --> 01:17:45.250 guy has done in that climate, in the world that 1456 01:17:45.289 --> 01:17:48.729 we know as WWE, on the Raw and the SmackDown side, 1457 01:17:49.090 --> 01:17:51.529 to me, he's your all-star just as far as being 1458 01:17:52.510 --> 01:17:58.140 the hardest-working guy to try to springboard himself forward. If 1459 01:17:58.180 --> 01:17:59.840 you don't look out for yourself, ain't nobody going to 1460 01:17:59.859 --> 01:18:02.279 look out for you. Look at Cena, look at Brock, 1461 01:18:02.319 --> 01:18:05.810 look at those badasses that are... super over guys and they, they, 1462 01:18:05.869 --> 01:18:08.760 they each do things in their own way. But I'm 1463 01:18:08.770 --> 01:18:10.800 talking about these other guys who have not found their 1464 01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:12.979 way yet into the main event picture. And you look 1465 01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:14.600 what the Miz has done. And this goes from the 1466 01:18:14.619 --> 01:18:16.159 bottom of the card to the top of the card. 1467 01:18:16.520 --> 01:18:18.779 You see how hungry that guy is, how hard he tries. 1468 01:18:19.279 --> 01:18:20.140 I really respect that. 1469 01:18:22.539 --> 01:18:24.380 iPhone users. If you're listening to us on the native 1470 01:18:24.399 --> 01:18:28.430 podcast app on your iPhone, You can unlock our commercial-free 1471 01:18:28.470 --> 01:18:33.420 versions of our free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts. 1472 01:18:33.439 --> 01:18:36.000 You'll see a charcoal gray logo that says PWTorch VIP 1473 01:18:36.060 --> 01:18:38.039 on it. Click on that. There's some free samples of 1474 01:18:38.100 --> 01:18:41.680 VIP shows, and you can unlock the entire VIP lineup, 1475 01:18:41.699 --> 01:18:44.930 which includes VIP exclusives plus commercial-free versions of the free 1476 01:18:44.949 --> 01:18:48.609 shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts and clicking on 1477 01:18:48.630 --> 01:19:08.390 the PWTorch VIP logo. We'll be right back. and a 1478 01:19:08.430 --> 01:19:12.109 variety of other VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your 1479 01:19:12.189 --> 01:19:17.449 Apple Podcast app. I'm glad you picked somebody out who 1480 01:19:18.109 --> 01:19:21.310 is that embodiment of what you're talking about. He's not 1481 01:19:21.350 --> 01:19:24.739 the top, top main event guy, but everybody has a 1482 01:19:25.479 --> 01:19:29.260 different set of talents that they can be involved in molding. 1483 01:19:29.279 --> 01:19:30.840 It isn't just about, I do what I'm told and 1484 01:19:30.859 --> 01:19:33.359 I hope to get rich. It is about, like you said, 1485 01:19:33.399 --> 01:19:36.600 presenting
ideas, reinventing yourself, dressing to the T, and carrying 1486 01:19:36.649 --> 01:19:40.850 yourself a certain way. I believe that Miz is a 1487 01:19:40.890 --> 01:19:43.449 lot like his on air character. I like, I watched 1488 01:19:43.470 --> 01:19:47.569 that show. I don't think, well, he's completely different. I like, 1489 01:19:48.050 --> 01:19:51.390 he's good at that too. He makes you believe immersively 1490 01:19:51.449 --> 01:19:54.409 that this is who he is, that he would be 1491 01:19:54.489 --> 01:19:56.699 hard to deal with outside of the ring, that he's 1492 01:19:56.739 --> 01:19:58.819 got a big head, that he thinks he's better than 1493 01:19:58.840 --> 01:20:02.239 he is. That's your job. Convince people. And Charlotte's the 1494 01:20:02.260 --> 01:20:05.649 same way. You know, I believe Miz, I mean, unfortunately, 1495 01:20:05.689 --> 01:20:09.079 she puts out conflicting signals on social media and on 1496 01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:12.439 radio interviews. I want Charlotte to be 24-7. I want 1497 01:20:12.479 --> 01:20:15.500 her to be 365 days a year, nothing in public 1498 01:20:15.579 --> 01:20:18.039 that contradicts the idea that she is convinced she is 1499 01:20:18.100 --> 01:20:21.619 genetically better than everybody else. I think that helps her 1500 01:20:21.659 --> 01:20:24.369 character more to do that. And Miz isn't out there 1501 01:20:24.390 --> 01:20:26.550 contradicting it. And I admire her for that, too. 1502 01:20:27.890 --> 01:20:31.430 Well, I agree with you. Just real quickly, yeah, I 1503 01:20:31.470 --> 01:20:34.069 believe Charlotte should be the same. It's almost because I 1504 01:20:34.090 --> 01:20:36.329 think that's who she is dialed up. Go ahead and 1505 01:20:36.409 --> 01:20:41.390 act accordingly on your promos and on your appearances. Definitely. 1506 01:20:41.449 --> 01:20:43.909 Yep. You want to think people are. Vince McMahon always 1507 01:20:43.949 --> 01:20:45.529 said that, Stephen. We hit this note a lot when 1508 01:20:45.569 --> 01:20:50.250 we talk on our podcast. He'd always say pro wrestlers 1509 01:20:50.289 --> 01:20:54.170 are not characters. They're themselves. They're a slice of who 1510 01:20:54.189 --> 01:20:57.789 they really are authentically dialed up. sometimes to a ridiculous 1511 01:20:57.850 --> 01:20:59.810 degree that wouldn't work in the real world, but it 1512 01:20:59.850 --> 01:21:03.109 works well for TV. And people can sense if you're 1513 01:21:03.130 --> 01:21:05.630 dialing up a part of who you really are compared 1514 01:21:05.649 --> 01:21:08.329 to dialing up something that was written for you that 1515 01:21:08.449 --> 01:21:11.800 isn't really who you are. And that authenticity is such 1516 01:21:11.840 --> 01:21:14.539 a key to getting over. But you can't just be 1517 01:21:14.600 --> 01:21:17.199 authentic and entertaining without also being a badass who people 1518 01:21:17.260 --> 01:21:20.680 take seriously in the ring and think are tough
and 1519 01:21:20.699 --> 01:21:22.590 going to win fights. And you have to put that 1520 01:21:22.609 --> 01:21:24.329 all together. And I'm just not, you know, going back 1521 01:21:24.369 --> 01:21:27.710 to Seth and Dean, I'm not sure they've found that 1522 01:21:27.850 --> 01:21:31.229 magic combination yet. And it's why when you say who's over, 1523 01:21:32.029 --> 01:21:34.489 I think immediately of the top guys. And I don't 1524 01:21:34.529 --> 01:21:36.789 think they're over. Not in the sense that that term 1525 01:21:36.829 --> 01:21:39.489 is traditionally used when big money is being drawn. 1526 01:21:40.479 --> 01:21:42.140 Well, I know. But, you know, and also you got 1527 01:21:42.149 --> 01:21:43.840 to look at the locker room, you know, back in. 1528 01:21:44.380 --> 01:21:46.359 You know, when I started out, I was working with 1529 01:21:46.380 --> 01:21:48.859 guys that had been in the business 20 years. And 1530 01:21:49.579 --> 01:21:52.539 my whole career had guys win, you know, a locker 1531 01:21:52.600 --> 01:21:55.300 full of veterans. You know, when you look at the 1532 01:21:55.340 --> 01:21:59.430 list of guys that's really over that can give these 1533 01:21:59.479 --> 01:22:02.369 guys any kind of 4-1-1, the list is kind of 1534 01:22:02.390 --> 01:22:04.489 few and far between because there's some guys that are 1535 01:22:04.529 --> 01:22:08.090 kind of over but not mega over. And, you know, 1536 01:22:08.109 --> 01:22:10.770 like a guy like John Cena or Brock Lesnar who's 1537 01:22:10.829 --> 01:22:14.260 mega over, hey, man– As much as you'd like to 1538 01:22:14.300 --> 01:22:18.199 be able to drop some 411 on someone, their looks, 1539 01:22:18.350 --> 01:22:22.550 their size, seen as charisma, they have so many of 1540 01:22:22.590 --> 01:22:26.050 those attributes and spades. I don't know how much they 1541 01:22:26.069 --> 01:22:29.369 could actually help someone like a Seth Rollins, try to 1542 01:22:29.770 --> 01:22:33.770 enhance his character. But there's enough guys that have been 1543 01:22:33.810 --> 01:22:37.899 around there. I mean, Arne Anderson, some of those agents backstage. uh, 1544 01:22:38.010 --> 01:22:41.050 even events should be able to, uh, you know, help 1545 01:22:41.069 --> 01:22:42.689 these guys out and say, Hey, you know what? I 1546 01:22:42.710 --> 01:22:45.949 was thinking about, uh, you know, the Seth freaking Rollins saying, 1547 01:22:45.970 --> 01:22:47.989 you know, what can we do to really make you 1548 01:22:48.470 --> 01:22:51.409 pop or really make you be a superstar that when, 1549 01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:54.020 when he's walking through the airport, people say, Hey man, 1550 01:22:54.140 --> 01:22:57.899 that's that fucking guy. That's that guy. You know, you 1551 01:22:57.920 --> 01:22:58.439 know what I'm saying? 1552 01:22:58.840 --> 01:22:59.539 Yeah, absolutely. 1553 01:23:00.500 --> 01:23:00.880 Well, okay. 1554 01:23:01.119 --> 01:23:05.329 Uh, Goldberg gets
that reaction. I mean, for 20 years, 1555 01:23:05.590 --> 01:23:08.670 people have been seeing him in airports going, that's that guy, 1556 01:23:08.729 --> 01:23:12.600 as you put it. He's back now, 49 years old, 1557 01:23:13.399 --> 01:23:15.600 turning 50 next month, going to get in the ring 1558 01:23:15.640 --> 01:23:18.479 with Brock Lesnar. As Ric Flair talked about this on 1559 01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:20.000 Busted Open Radio this week, and I put up a 1560 01:23:20.239 --> 01:23:24.239 story on this and highlights that pwtorch.com with quotes and 1561 01:23:24.279 --> 01:23:27.430 some thoughts on it. He said, Ric said, you know, 1562 01:23:27.689 --> 01:23:28.890 he's a guy who's been in the ring in his 1563 01:23:29.170 --> 01:23:31.149 50s and 60s. He's like, I'm not sure a guy 1564 01:23:31.189 --> 01:23:33.949 who hasn't wrestled And I know Goldberg, he says, Goldberg 1565 01:23:33.970 --> 01:23:35.310 keeps himself in good shape and does a lot of 1566 01:23:35.329 --> 01:23:37.130 cross training and that type of thing. He's a little 1567 01:23:37.170 --> 01:23:39.090 nervous for him getting in there with Brock under the 1568 01:23:39.149 --> 01:23:44.189 spotlight with no net. How do you feel about that? 1569 01:23:45.229 --> 01:23:48.340 Goldberg at his age with not a lot of ring experience, period, 1570 01:23:48.399 --> 01:23:50.680 relative to other guys who have made his money and 1571 01:23:50.699 --> 01:23:53.500 been on top, now getting in the ring with Brock. 1572 01:23:54.579 --> 01:23:57.920 Do you think that match can be smooth and executed, 1573 01:23:58.119 --> 01:23:59.399 or are you a little nervous about it? 1574 01:24:00.970 --> 01:24:02.989 Well, I'm not a little nervous about it. I'm excited 1575 01:24:03.029 --> 01:24:04.710 to see Bill back. I know he wanted to go 1576 01:24:04.750 --> 01:24:08.250 back so his son could see him perform one or 1577 01:24:08.289 --> 01:24:11.250 two more times, whatever Joe Burke's deal is. I don't 1578 01:24:11.270 --> 01:24:13.270 know what his deal is. I was at his house 1579 01:24:13.289 --> 01:24:15.649 a few months ago, and I knew he was going 1580 01:24:15.670 --> 01:24:17.869 to be on the back of the 2K17 game, but 1581 01:24:18.329 --> 01:24:20.729 didn't know any of this stuff was going to transpire 1582 01:24:20.770 --> 01:24:23.909 into what it has. Maybe he doesn't either, but he 1583 01:24:23.939 --> 01:24:27.609 totally kayfabed me. But, you know, see him get out 1584 01:24:27.630 --> 01:24:29.949 there and, you know, to step in the ring with 1585 01:24:29.970 --> 01:24:33.189 Brock here and give or take three weeks. It's going 1586 01:24:33.210 --> 01:24:35.670 to be it's going to be interesting. You know, I 1587 01:24:35.789 --> 01:24:38.789 was right there front and center in Madison Square Garden, 1588 01:24:39.029 --> 01:24:42.109 you know, back to 12 years ago. And, you know, 1589 01:24:42.149 --> 01:24:45.520 both those guys are leaving the company, and the
match 1590 01:24:45.560 --> 01:24:48.300 just wasn't that good. I wish him all the luck 1591 01:24:48.319 --> 01:24:50.640 in the world. You know, Brock Lesnar can have a 1592 01:24:50.659 --> 01:24:54.460 good match with anybody, and so can Goldberg. That match 1593 01:24:54.479 --> 01:24:57.430 he had with Diamond Dallas Page was a damn classic. 1594 01:24:58.090 --> 01:25:00.649 So if they get the right people helping these guys out, 1595 01:25:01.189 --> 01:25:03.710 you know, it could be a knock-down, drag-out affair, and 1596 01:25:03.770 --> 01:25:06.489 I think that's what people expected 12 years ago. Now, 1597 01:25:06.590 --> 01:25:09.529 on the other side of that, the fact is, You know, 1598 01:25:09.670 --> 01:25:12.760 Bill Goldberg is 12 years older. But, you know, hell, 1599 01:25:12.880 --> 01:25:14.949 I was at his house. I've seen him punch, kick, 1600 01:25:14.989 --> 01:25:17.060 do all that Muay Thai stuff. He's still strong as 1601 01:25:17.100 --> 01:25:19.760 a bull, probably not strong as Brock. At one time, 1602 01:25:19.840 --> 01:25:22.800 I would consider those guys almost equally explosive to the 1603 01:25:22.840 --> 01:25:25.600 strongest guys in the history of the business. Brock is 1604 01:25:25.659 --> 01:25:29.159 a freak athlete. You know, Brock's got to be Brock. And, 1605 01:25:29.619 --> 01:25:31.680 you know, I don't know how dinged up Bill is. 1606 01:25:31.739 --> 01:25:34.180 He was getting along pretty good when I saw him. But, 1607 01:25:34.220 --> 01:25:35.479 you know, when you go in there and you work 1608 01:25:35.500 --> 01:25:39.140 a match with Brock Lesnar and you were and still 1609 01:25:39.260 --> 01:25:44.340 are Bill Goldberg, there's got to be some drastic physicality 1610 01:25:44.359 --> 01:25:47.180 to this. This is not going to be, you know, 1611 01:25:47.239 --> 01:25:50.560 Brock taking powders out of the ring, you know, because 1612 01:25:50.579 --> 01:25:52.640 he's worried about Bill Goldberg. This is going to be 1613 01:25:52.699 --> 01:25:55.859 two big bulls in there fighting. And we'll just see 1614 01:25:55.899 --> 01:25:59.279 how they lay it out. I'm not nervous. I'm hopeful. 1615 01:25:59.680 --> 01:26:02.310 I'm hopeful that they just kick ass and blow the 1616 01:26:02.319 --> 01:26:05.720 roof off the place. That remains to be seen. Certainly 1617 01:26:05.819 --> 01:26:08.470 there's pressure on them because of what happened 12 years ago, 1618 01:26:08.970 --> 01:26:11.050 but both guys are very good friends of mine, so 1619 01:26:11.130 --> 01:26:13.930 I want them to have a classic. And it can 1620 01:26:13.970 --> 01:26:17.970 be a brutal, brief, 10-minute classic. I don't care how 1621 01:26:18.029 --> 01:26:20.210 long it is as long as it's good and as 1622 01:26:20.289 --> 01:26:23.550 long as it suits both guys' character and it's good 1623 01:26:23.590 --> 01:26:25.720 for both guys. And you can look at it and 1624 01:26:25.729 --> 01:26:28.319 you can say,
okay, well, what's the finish going to be? Okay. Okay. 1625 01:26:28.689 --> 01:26:31.050 Let's just forget about the finish. We'll see what happens 1626 01:26:31.090 --> 01:26:33.529 when the finish goes down. Both guys need to go 1627 01:26:33.609 --> 01:26:35.310 out there and be who and what they are. 1628 01:26:38.470 --> 01:26:40.890 Is Brock Lesnar, when you watch him in the ring 1629 01:26:41.170 --> 01:26:46.170 or his reputation, is he somebody who you think takes 1630 01:26:46.470 --> 01:26:49.689 it easy? People watch his match and go, oh, God, 1631 01:26:49.710 --> 01:26:50.970 look what he did to John Cena a few years 1632 01:26:50.989 --> 01:26:53.350 ago at SummerSlam. And all those suplexes have to hurt. 1633 01:26:53.729 --> 01:26:57.739 But I've heard that, on the contrary, it's because of 1634 01:26:57.840 --> 01:27:03.590 Brock's strength and freakish athleticism that he's actually more likely 1635 01:27:03.649 --> 01:27:07.270 to take care of you in the ring than somebody 1636 01:27:07.609 --> 01:27:11.970 who is not as muscular and strong and coordinated as Brock. 1637 01:27:12.189 --> 01:27:14.369 Do people have that sort of backwards? Not that Brock 1638 01:27:14.409 --> 01:27:18.479 can't be stiff or lay it in. We know he can. 1639 01:27:18.520 --> 01:27:21.140 He's been a UFC heavyweight champion. He won his last 1640 01:27:21.220 --> 01:27:24.920 UFC fight, but does that strength and power necessarily make 1641 01:27:24.979 --> 01:27:27.720 wrestling him more dangerous, or as a good athlete, is 1642 01:27:27.760 --> 01:27:29.180 he just more in control of what's happening? 1643 01:27:30.579 --> 01:27:32.000 Well, I mean, he kind of likes to lay his 1644 01:27:32.020 --> 01:27:34.199 stuff in, and sometimes some of those knees look a 1645 01:27:34.199 --> 01:27:37.439 little bit snug, but Brock is not of the mindset 1646 01:27:37.470 --> 01:27:41.590 to try to hurt anybody. Could he? Certainly could, just 1647 01:27:41.630 --> 01:27:45.130 to your point. He's a former UFC heavyweight champion. We 1648 01:27:45.149 --> 01:27:49.130 saw what he did to Mark Hunt. So Brock's a badass, 1649 01:27:49.189 --> 01:27:53.130 and everybody knows that, but I think just a fear of, hey, man, 1650 01:27:53.149 --> 01:27:54.890 this guy's so physical, I think he's going to hurt me. 1651 01:27:55.050 --> 01:27:57.670 I think that would bother or can bother a few guys. 1652 01:27:58.649 --> 01:28:01.329 I certainly don't think it bothers Goldberg or like the 1653 01:28:01.369 --> 01:28:03.949 Cena's of the world. You know, Cena's a road warrior. 1654 01:28:04.390 --> 01:28:06.630 And since you brought up that match, they had those 1655 01:28:06.689 --> 01:28:09.680 people for a couple of minutes. Cena needed to fire up. 1656 01:28:10.279 --> 01:28:12.520 and really get some offense on Brock. And the crowd 1657 01:28:12.560 --> 01:28:15.819 dropped off, and they never could get him again. But, yeah, 1658 01:28:15.890 --> 01:28:18.899 it just needs to be a case. I don't think 1659 01:28:19.439 --> 01:28:21.649 Bill's worried about getting injured. He's going to go in 1660 01:28:21.689 --> 01:28:24.569 there just like I saw him on ESPN the other day. Hey, man, 1661 01:28:24.590 --> 01:28:27.250 when he does something, he goes in 100%. I think 1662 01:28:27.289 --> 01:28:29.670 Brock's a safe guy. You know, the hard way with 1663 01:28:29.710 --> 01:28:32.350 Randy Orton was well done, but that was also planned, 1664 01:28:32.369 --> 01:28:36.250 whether you agree with it or not, whatever. But, you know, Brock, 1665 01:28:36.970 --> 01:28:39.029 because he is so big and strong, he can safely 1666 01:28:39.050 --> 01:28:40.760 throw your ass wherever. you want to get thrown. 1667 01:28:43.060 --> 01:28:45.060 Did you see the angle he did with Rusev on Monday? 1668 01:28:46.960 --> 01:28:51.359 Who, Bill Goldberg? Yeah. No, I missed that. I meant 1669 01:28:51.380 --> 01:28:52.539 to watch that. What happened? 1670 01:28:53.260 --> 01:28:56.819 Yeah, just Goldberg came out, Heyman interrupted. They did some 1671 01:28:56.859 --> 01:29:00.119 back and forth, and then Heyman said– he's the crowd 1672 01:29:00.159 --> 01:29:01.930 that Lesnar was here and he was going to fight. 1673 01:29:02.649 --> 01:29:05.189 And then Lesnar didn't come out. Heyman laughed, ha ha 1674 01:29:05.270 --> 01:29:07.130 tricked y'all. But he says, but that doesn't mean I 1675 01:29:07.149 --> 01:29:10.649 didn't come without backup. And then Rusev came out and 1676 01:29:10.949 --> 01:29:13.770 Goldberg and Rusev locked up. There was a moment where 1677 01:29:13.789 --> 01:29:16.680 Rusev or where Goldberg slipped and kind of dropped to 1678 01:29:16.739 --> 01:29:18.020 a drop down to his knee and then had to 1679 01:29:18.060 --> 01:29:22.699 pop up back up again before executing the jackhammer on Rusev. 1680 01:29:22.720 --> 01:29:24.939 So it was a little bit awkward. And then he 1681 01:29:24.979 --> 01:29:28.279 gave Heyman a spear and then he left the ring 1682 01:29:28.310 --> 01:29:31.000 and If you had seen it, I was going to ask, like, 1683 01:29:31.039 --> 01:29:33.520 body language-wise, I couldn't tell if Goldberg– because he was 1684 01:29:33.539 --> 01:29:36.579 huffing and puffing. Like, I mean, under the lights, you're 1685 01:29:36.600 --> 01:29:39.399 going to blow up quicker. And he looked– he was 1686 01:29:39.439 --> 01:29:42.020 kind of frowning. And I was wondering if the read 1687 01:29:42.119 --> 01:29:44.819 on that was he felt like it could have gone better. 1688 01:29:45.600 --> 01:29:47.260 It's hard to spear Paul Heyman and have it look 1689 01:29:47.279 --> 01:29:48.970 good because you're trying to protect Paul. He's not going 1690 01:29:48.979 --> 01:29:51.109 to take a good bump on that. But it was 1691 01:29:51.149 --> 01:29:53.590 like there was some good and some not so good, 1692 01:29:53.630 --> 01:29:56.779 and it made people go, uh-oh. You know, what might 1693
01:29:56.840 --> 01:30:00.189 happen when Lesnar, excuse me, when Goldberg, who his selling 1694 01:30:00.250 --> 01:30:03.170 point and his asset is his intensity and getting worked 1695 01:30:03.250 --> 01:30:05.569 up and making you believe. But could he end up 1696 01:30:05.590 --> 01:30:10.000 a little overwhelmed after 12 years out? And could he 1697 01:30:10.060 --> 01:30:12.159 end up kind of getting blown up? I think it's 1698 01:30:12.180 --> 01:30:13.560 good to be in the ring with Lesnar, who's going 1699 01:30:13.579 --> 01:30:15.659 to be a ring veteran who can handle that and 1700 01:30:15.699 --> 01:30:17.619 calm him down if that happens. That was my take 1701 01:30:17.659 --> 01:30:20.199 on Monday night watching it. Well, you know what? 1702 01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:23.420 When you recounted that, I actually saw that. I missed 1703 01:30:23.460 --> 01:30:25.619 the bobble. I think I turned my head away, but 1704 01:30:25.649 --> 01:30:28.350 I saw the jackhammer, I guess. I saw the spear. 1705 01:30:30.510 --> 01:30:33.510 I didn't see what he was wearing. Was he wearing boots? 1706 01:30:34.329 --> 01:30:36.810 Because he always wears boots, like work boots kind of thing. 1707 01:30:37.970 --> 01:30:40.789 And maybe that's where the, that's probably the trip up 1708 01:30:40.869 --> 01:30:43.220 or that's, that's probably what you're referring to. Cause there's 1709 01:30:43.260 --> 01:30:44.819 been a couple of occasions when I was out there 1710 01:30:44.859 --> 01:30:47.520 and some footwear that wasn't so great on that mat 1711 01:30:47.539 --> 01:30:49.960 and you get tripped up and you know, you just, 1712 01:30:49.979 --> 01:30:52.079 you feel like when you trip or you do something 1713 01:30:52.100 --> 01:30:56.229 wrong or you slip, it's, it's, it's not just embarrassing. 1714 01:30:56.239 --> 01:30:59.569 You cover for it, but you don't want it to happen. 1715 01:30:59.890 --> 01:31:02.350 So it was probably, it was probably a footwear issue. 1716 01:31:02.609 --> 01:31:04.869 And then, you know, as far as helping and pumping, man, 1717 01:31:04.890 --> 01:31:07.050 let me tell you something. There was a couple of times, 1718 01:31:07.090 --> 01:31:09.710 I think, when I came back from whatever I was 1719 01:31:09.729 --> 01:31:11.470 coming back from to do that two out of three 1720 01:31:11.510 --> 01:31:15.569 falls match with Triple H in Las Vegas. And, you know, 1721 01:31:15.590 --> 01:31:18.850 I was about a 40-some-odd-minute match, and I wasn't in 1722 01:31:18.909 --> 01:31:21.550 very good shape because I'd been on the sidelines for 1723 01:31:21.590 --> 01:31:24.590 so long. And you can get out on a pre-core, 1724 01:31:24.609 --> 01:31:27.840 an elliptical machine, a treadmill, a bicycle. You can kick 1725 01:31:27.880 --> 01:31:31.119 a bag in a Muay Thai gym, but there ain't 1726 01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:34.180 nothing like locking up with the guy throwing a headlock 1727 01:31:34.300 --> 01:31:38.229 on him or going into a corner and exchanging blows 1728 01:31:38.390 --> 01:31:40.329 or hitting the ropes in a high spot, you know, 1729 01:31:40.350 --> 01:31:43.170 getting it again, going back into a hold. Hey man, 1730 01:31:43.189 --> 01:31:46.010 that will blow your ass up. So, you know, I 1731 01:31:46.569 --> 01:31:49.770 hope that they've sent a gym down there to his, 1732 01:31:50.149 --> 01:31:52.039 I hope they sent a ring down there to his gym. 1733 01:31:52.079 --> 01:31:55.369 He's got a great facility down there outside of San Diego. And, 1734 01:31:56.069 --> 01:31:59.270 My old thing was anytime I was coming back, working 1735 01:31:59.289 --> 01:32:02.130 with Savio Vega or going up to Lima, Ohio to 1736 01:32:02.170 --> 01:32:03.810 work with Al Snow for about a week when I 1737 01:32:03.850 --> 01:32:06.689 first came into WWE, just get in the ring and 1738 01:32:06.729 --> 01:32:09.600 start hitting the ropes. Just start doing drop downs, hitting 1739 01:32:09.619 --> 01:32:14.939 the ropes. Just keep crisscrossing, stopping the third turnbuckle, back 1740 01:32:15.000 --> 01:32:19.140 into action. You basically just work with yourself. And when 1741 01:32:19.180 --> 01:32:21.140 I was training back in Texas to come back from 1742 01:32:21.159 --> 01:32:24.239 my neck injury, they'd fly guys into my ranch. In 1743 01:32:24.260 --> 01:32:27.159 my barn, they put up a ring so I could 1744 01:32:27.199 --> 01:32:29.500 get back in ring shape. You know, you can talk 1745 01:32:29.520 --> 01:32:31.439 about Muay Thai all you want, but until you get 1746 01:32:31.479 --> 01:32:34.460 back in a ring, it's a whole different thing than sparring. 1747 01:32:34.920 --> 01:32:36.699 And make no bones about it, when you got those 1748 01:32:36.760 --> 01:32:39.979 bright lights, all those camera guys out there, and 20,000 1749 01:32:39.979 --> 01:32:43.250 people out there in the crowd, the nerves come into play. 1750 01:32:43.289 --> 01:32:45.659 So you could be in good shape. When those nerves 1751 01:32:45.680 --> 01:32:47.260 start coming into play and all of a sudden you're 1752 01:32:47.279 --> 01:32:51.100 just taking those shallow breaths and five minutes in, you're gassed. 1753 01:32:51.500 --> 01:32:54.579 I've seen guys walk down the ramp and be gassed 1754 01:32:54.739 --> 01:32:57.939 because of the crowd. I've seen it a million times. Yep. 1755 01:33:01.460 --> 01:33:04.460 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk? Then join me, 1756 01:33:04.520 --> 01:33:08.100 Jason Powell, host of the three-weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. 1757 01:33:08.579 --> 01:33:10.739 Each week, you'll hear the latest news and analysis from 1758 01:33:10.800 --> 01:33:13.479 me and my team at ProWrestling.net along with other pro 1759 01:33:13.510 --> 01:33:16.949 wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features 1760 01:33:17.010 --> 01:33:20.369 long-form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry. 1761
01:33:20.649 --> 01:33:24.470 Subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps. 1762 01:33:24.970 --> 01:33:30.569 Or visit us directly at pwboom.com. Once again, that's pwboom.com. 1763 01:33:33.449 --> 01:33:35.270 That's what I was wondering if a little bit of 1764 01:33:35.310 --> 01:33:37.569 that didn't happen on Monday night. I mean, I thought 1765 01:33:37.600 --> 01:33:40.020 it was a really special moment two weeks ago. with 1766 01:33:40.029 --> 01:33:42.060 Goldberg in the ring and his, his wife and his 1767 01:33:42.079 --> 01:33:45.260 son at ringside and the crowd absolutely embraced him and 1768 01:33:45.300 --> 01:33:47.479 just went bonkers for him. It was in the rating 1769 01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:50.239 went up and it just, it was a real special moment. 1770 01:33:50.279 --> 01:33:53.479 And I, I, you know, everybody says Bill's a good guy. 1771 01:33:53.800 --> 01:33:56.279 I mean, like, I love that. He, he's, you know, 1772 01:33:56.319 --> 01:33:59.140 in animal rights and animal welfare, he's got the soft, 1773 01:33:59.380 --> 01:34:01.619 the soft part of his heart. He's, you know, he 1774 01:34:01.640 --> 01:34:04.859 got thrown into this, this cauldron of politics and WCW 1775 01:34:05.270 --> 01:34:07.250 as a green guy, not just in the ring, but 1776 01:34:07.270 --> 01:34:10.239 to the politics of wrestling and, and, and came out 1777 01:34:10.260 --> 01:34:12.979 of it and with a lot of money and his 1778 01:34:13.039 --> 01:34:15.180 body intact. And he has enough of a love for 1779 01:34:15.199 --> 01:34:17.100 it that he wants his wife and his kid, his 1780 01:34:17.119 --> 01:34:20.279 kids to see him, you know, I mean, and to 1781 01:34:20.319 --> 01:34:23.000 be able to do that now and to have a 1782 01:34:23.020 --> 01:34:25.619 high profile match like this, make some extra money, but 1783 01:34:25.659 --> 01:34:28.970 also have that, that moment, I think is really, really cool. 1784 01:34:29.029 --> 01:34:30.350 And I know you're friends with them and you're hanging 1785 01:34:30.369 --> 01:34:33.430 out with them. Even are you just excited and happy 1786 01:34:33.489 --> 01:34:36.109 for him as a person that this came to fruition, 1787 01:34:36.189 --> 01:34:38.229 knowing how much he did want this to happen? 1788 01:34:39.439 --> 01:34:42.010 Yeah, I was glad to see it happen. I don't 1789 01:34:42.029 --> 01:34:44.970 think Bill had a very good run. His first go-round 1790 01:34:45.010 --> 01:34:48.529 in WWE, he was coming off being paid by WCW, 1791 01:34:48.550 --> 01:34:50.710 had a great deal over there. He was super, super 1792 01:34:50.810 --> 01:34:54.300 over in WCW. The window had kind of already closed. 1793 01:34:54.380 --> 01:34:55.899 I was kind of getting ready to get out of there. 1794 01:34:57.100 --> 01:35:00.789 So Stone Cold versus Goldberg never happened. But all these 1795 01:35:00.829 --> 01:35:03.649 years that go by, you know, because he was over 1796
01:35:03.670 --> 01:35:06.189 in WCW, he gets in the big leagues and it 1797 01:35:06.270 --> 01:35:08.750 wasn't so much whether it was the writing, whether he 1798 01:35:08.789 --> 01:35:12.470 didn't really fit the system for whatever reasons. But when 1799 01:35:12.510 --> 01:35:14.729 he got back in the ring two weeks ago and 1800 01:35:14.750 --> 01:35:19.949 that crowd started going, go, Berg, go, he had tears 1801 01:35:19.989 --> 01:35:22.909 in his eye. And when you've been away from the 1802 01:35:22.930 --> 01:35:24.850 business that long and you go back and you get 1803 01:35:24.890 --> 01:35:29.270 that kind of response and you remember, you realize that 1804 01:35:29.350 --> 01:35:32.270 even though you're gone 12 years, these people still respect 1805 01:35:32.300 --> 01:35:34.250 the hell out of you and they love you. They 1806 01:35:34.289 --> 01:35:37.510 got a chance to live vicariously of all those spears 1807 01:35:37.569 --> 01:35:40.970 and jackhammers and that intensity that he brought down with 1808 01:35:41.010 --> 01:35:44.270 that great entrance, walking through the back with the pyro, 1809 01:35:44.310 --> 01:35:47.350 breathing the smoke. You know, it was quite a spectacle. 1810 01:35:47.409 --> 01:35:51.109 I mean, and he was a big-time guy. And so 1811 01:35:51.609 --> 01:35:54.279 you get away from the business, and sometimes it's like, eh, 1812 01:35:54.300 --> 01:35:56.399 piss on the business, forget about it, you know, I'm 1813 01:35:56.500 --> 01:35:58.659 over it. And you go back in the ring for 1814 01:35:58.699 --> 01:36:01.079 a moment like that, and it brings all those feelings 1815 01:36:01.140 --> 01:36:04.239 and emotions back. And, hey, man, there's some dollars and 1816 01:36:04.979 --> 01:36:07.020 some cents on the table that are going to go 1817 01:36:07.039 --> 01:36:09.899 to Bill Goldberg and the WWE. But this wasn't about 1818 01:36:09.920 --> 01:36:13.779 the money. It was about the crowd responding in such 1819 01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:16.979 a great fashion. And Bill, I don't know as a 1820 01:36:17.020 --> 01:36:19.229 promo guy if he's the greatest promo guy that ever 1821 01:36:19.279 --> 01:36:22.550 walked the planet that did business in a squared circle. 1822 01:36:22.590 --> 01:36:26.489 But an A-plus promo by Bill Goldberg handling the task 1823 01:36:26.510 --> 01:36:30.560 at hand, all those emotions, it was completely real. and authentic, 1824 01:36:30.939 --> 01:36:32.909 and I just thought it was a great piece of television. 1825 01:36:32.949 --> 01:36:36.390 And if the ratings went up, that means that he 1826 01:36:36.430 --> 01:36:39.390 did indeed mean something to a lot of people. So 1827 01:36:39.449 --> 01:36:41.550 I'm excited for his opportunity, and I'm glad to see 1828 01:36:41.590 --> 01:36:44.869 him back. And, you know, whoever knows how long it's 1829 01:36:44.890 --> 01:36:46.520 going to last, you know, whatever it is, whether it's 1830 01:36:46.640 --> 01:36:49.720 one match, two match, or whatever, it was a good 1831 01:36:49.760 --> 01:36:52.000 piece of TV, and Bill handled it about as good 1832 01:36:52.039 --> 01:36:53.079 as anybody could have handled it. 1833 01:36:54.279 --> 01:36:56.369 Two quick closing topics, Stephen. Thank you very much for 1834 01:36:56.390 --> 01:36:58.069 your time. I wasn't expecting to go this long, but 1835 01:36:58.130 --> 01:37:01.630 the conversation is really flowing. I appreciate it. You mentioned 1836 01:37:01.649 --> 01:37:05.140 Shawn Michaels real early in the conversation. People wondering, hey, 1837 01:37:05.220 --> 01:37:09.800 San Antonio, the Royal Rumble, AJ Styles dropping Shawn Michaels' name. 1838 01:37:09.840 --> 01:37:13.000 I think Shawn dropped AJ's name at some point. Do 1839 01:37:13.020 --> 01:37:16.630 you think there's any chance? Because Shawn, I mean, he's 1840 01:37:16.649 --> 01:37:19.720 going down to the Performance Center, helping out. um you 1841 01:37:19.760 --> 01:37:22.699 know he's got his toe dip back in you know 1842 01:37:22.760 --> 01:37:25.619 him you hung around with him you've seen his resolve 1843 01:37:25.920 --> 01:37:28.729 that he doesn't want to break his retirement stip so 1844 01:37:28.739 --> 01:37:30.930 to speak he liked how he ended it he doesn't 1845 01:37:30.970 --> 01:37:32.989 want to disappoint people he comes back because the bar 1846 01:37:33.029 --> 01:37:35.989 is so high for his work where are you on 1847 01:37:36.029 --> 01:37:39.029 the on the odds meter that sean returns either in 1848 01:37:39.050 --> 01:37:41.850 san antonio or at some other time versus no we've 1849 01:37:41.869 --> 01:37:44.079 seen his last match Well. 1850 01:37:44.100 --> 01:37:45.659 I don't know, man. There was rumors it was down 1851 01:37:45.680 --> 01:37:48.000 there in Florida. So, I mean, he's got access to 1852 01:37:48.060 --> 01:37:51.079 a ring. You know, San Antonio was his hometown for years. 1853 01:37:52.439 --> 01:37:57.739 And I think there's a 10% chance of it happening. 1854 01:37:58.300 --> 01:38:02.079 And it wouldn't– if Sean said, you know what, I 1855 01:38:02.140 --> 01:38:03.619 am going to go one more time and it's going 1856 01:38:03.640 --> 01:38:06.859 to be with AJ Styles, I wouldn't go, gosh darn it, 1857 01:38:07.380 --> 01:38:09.510 he told me he was going to retire and I 1858 01:38:09.550 --> 01:38:11.710 just always expected him to live up to his word. 1859 01:38:11.729 --> 01:38:11.810 Amen. 1860 01:38:12.390 --> 01:38:15.649 Amen. I'm a Shawn Michaels fan. You know, it'd be 1861 01:38:15.689 --> 01:38:18.300 neat to sit there and watch him and AJ have 1862 01:38:18.319 --> 01:38:20.970 a match to see what Shawn still got left in 1863 01:38:20.970 --> 01:38:23.680 the tank. And, you know, he's been away from, you know, 1864 01:38:23.680 --> 01:38:26.310 he's not training heavy and he's he's been hunting he's 1865 01:38:26.340 --> 01:38:28.880 been doing all of his other stuff so
I don't 1866 01:38:28.899 --> 01:38:30.819 know what kind of shape the guy's in I know 1867 01:38:30.880 --> 01:38:32.520 he's he's in as good a shape as he can 1868 01:38:32.560 --> 01:38:34.300 be he's not a drinker he's not a smoker he's 1869 01:38:34.340 --> 01:38:37.539 not a party guy he's completely off everything that he 1870 01:38:37.579 --> 01:38:40.550 was way back in the day decades ago so I 1871 01:38:40.590 --> 01:38:43.550 know he's in a good place mentally and probably physically 1872 01:38:43.609 --> 01:38:45.949 but to spin up for a match like that and 1873 01:38:46.439 --> 01:38:49.020 You know, anybody who knows Shawn Michaels knows that if 1874 01:38:49.039 --> 01:38:50.779 you're going to work with him now, the time I 1875 01:38:50.800 --> 01:38:53.359 worked with him at WrestleMania 14 was an average match. 1876 01:38:53.420 --> 01:38:56.279 He had a bad back, had a bad attitude and 1877 01:38:56.310 --> 01:38:59.170 didn't really want to drop the belt. But other than that, 1878 01:38:59.289 --> 01:39:02.310 anybody that's ever worked with Shawn Michaels knows you better 1879 01:39:02.369 --> 01:39:04.350 have your shit together or you're going to get blown 1880 01:39:04.409 --> 01:39:07.449 out of the water. Because Shawn Michaels is the greatest 1881 01:39:07.529 --> 01:39:09.710 in-ring performer in the history of the business, and that's 1882 01:39:09.729 --> 01:39:11.850 the bottom line. So if you're going to line up 1883 01:39:11.890 --> 01:39:13.909 with Shawn, you've got to be ready to go. And 1884 01:39:13.970 --> 01:39:16.350 I know AJ would be ready to go. But how 1885 01:39:16.449 --> 01:39:19.609 far can Shawn go is the question. Maybe we'll see. 1886 01:39:19.770 --> 01:39:22.060 I say that matches a 10% chance that it happens. 1887 01:39:23.159 --> 01:39:25.699 And I assume your chance of you returning, talking about 1888 01:39:25.819 --> 01:39:29.479 HBK and now seeing Goldberg, remains less than 1%, if 1889 01:39:29.520 --> 01:39:30.020 not zero. 1890 01:39:32.060 --> 01:39:32.680 I'll say that again. 1891 01:39:33.680 --> 01:39:35.899 Your chance of returning to the ring, does it change 1892 01:39:35.960 --> 01:39:38.859 from less than 1% or zero based on talking about 1893 01:39:38.899 --> 01:39:41.819 Sean and seeing Goldberg? Because people want to know, and 1894 01:39:41.840 --> 01:39:43.079 I know you get tired of the question. 1895 01:39:43.979 --> 01:39:48.079 No, you know, it's always interesting when WrestleMania comes around. No, 1896 01:39:48.380 --> 01:39:51.310 I'm done. I love doing my reality television show. I 1897 01:39:51.350 --> 01:39:54.729 love doing my podcast. I'm starting to– we've got a 1898 01:39:54.750 --> 01:39:56.689 remodel going over here in my house. I've had a 1899 01:39:56.970 --> 01:39:59.989 couple of business obligations with Kawasaki and some other things 1900 01:40:00.010 --> 01:40:02.560 that I'm involved with. keep me from going down to 1901 01:40:02.600 --> 01:40:06.000 the ranch a little bit sooner than I would have liked. Man, 1902 01:40:06.239 --> 01:40:09.920 I really enjoy my schedule now. I do the things 1903 01:40:09.939 --> 01:40:12.890 that I love and I'm passionate about and that are 1904 01:40:13.789 --> 01:40:16.289 conducive to my health. I don't need to go back 1905 01:40:16.329 --> 01:40:19.050 in the ring and take any more bumps. I left 1906 01:40:19.109 --> 01:40:22.630 back in 2003 against The Rock at WrestleMania 19, and 1907 01:40:22.670 --> 01:40:26.899 people say, Steve, it wasn't a send-off you deserved. You 1908 01:40:26.920 --> 01:40:29.989 deserved to go out on a bigger note. Hey man, 1909 01:40:30.189 --> 01:40:32.310 I don't deserve anything. You know, I had a good run. 1910 01:40:32.369 --> 01:40:34.149 I got a lot of good memories. I had a 1911 01:40:34.149 --> 01:40:38.270 blast and, uh, man, I'm, I'm, I'm, I will use 1912 01:40:38.300 --> 01:40:41.399 the R word, but I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. 1913 01:40:41.439 --> 01:40:42.920 Well, yeah, you can't use the R word given how 1914 01:40:42.939 --> 01:40:46.119 busy you are with stuff. Um, UFC, Ronda Rousey or 1915 01:40:46.140 --> 01:40:47.840 Conor McGregor, who are you more excited to see come 1916 01:40:47.880 --> 01:40:48.760 back fight later this year? 1917 01:40:49.880 --> 01:40:53.619 Golly, man, son of a gun with the way Ronda 1918 01:40:53.779 --> 01:40:56.989 kind of imploded, you know, after that loss to Holly home, 1919 01:40:57.210 --> 01:40:59.949 it was, uh, You know, and she's, you know, a 1920 01:41:00.069 --> 01:41:02.329 high-level competitor in the Olympics and all that stuff with 1921 01:41:02.369 --> 01:41:05.569 her judo. I'm anxious to see her come back, man, 1922 01:41:05.609 --> 01:41:08.569 against Amanda Nunez. Ooh, she's a bad stick of wood. 1923 01:41:08.909 --> 01:41:10.409 You know, word out on her, you know, if it 1924 01:41:10.430 --> 01:41:13.609 goes past two rounds, I mean, she may gas. But, man, 1925 01:41:13.649 --> 01:41:16.079 she's got heavy hands, I mean, and quick hands. So, 1926 01:41:16.119 --> 01:41:18.920 I mean, she's dangerous. She's very dangerous. As far as 1927 01:41:18.960 --> 01:41:22.220 Conor McGregor goes, man, I love the way a kid fights. 1928 01:41:22.300 --> 01:41:23.880 I love the way he puts on a show. I 1929 01:41:24.119 --> 01:41:28.689 love the way he promotes fights. So, I'm equally excited. But, man, 1930 01:41:29.350 --> 01:41:33.229 I don't think, you know, I'm real impressed with what 1931 01:41:33.289 --> 01:41:36.170 Ronda Rousey was able to do. And then, you know, 1932 01:41:36.210 --> 01:41:39.689 Holly Holmes just had the perfect blueprint to defeat her. 1933 01:41:40.270 --> 01:41:43.069 And so to see her come back, you know, has 1934 01:41:43.109 --> 01:41:46.600 the game passed her by or is she still, you know, 1935 01:41:46.640 --> 01:41:48.880 she's obviously always going to be a very badass, tough woman. 1936 01:41:49.340 --> 01:41:51.260 but
does she have what it takes to make a 1937 01:41:51.300 --> 01:41:54.180 comeback and get that belt back? I mean, that's going 1938 01:41:54.199 --> 01:41:56.119 to be a big-selling pay-per-view, and I'm going to be 1939 01:41:56.189 --> 01:41:58.050 one of the people that buy that pay-per-view just to 1940 01:41:58.090 --> 01:42:00.250 see what Ronda can do. I wish her all the best. 1941 01:42:00.310 --> 01:42:02.770 I think she's been badass. She's been wonderful for the 1942 01:42:02.789 --> 01:42:04.710 sport of MMA and UFC. 1943 01:42:05.710 --> 01:42:08.609 Yeah, I'm looking forward to both fights. I'm more looking 1944 01:42:08.630 --> 01:42:12.569 forward to Ronda Rousey's fight. in the sense that I've 1945 01:42:12.609 --> 01:42:14.590 seen Conor fight a few times since Ronda fought. 1946 01:42:14.989 --> 01:42:17.489 Oh, I agree with you on that note. I agree 1947 01:42:17.529 --> 01:42:20.010 with you on that note. Yeah, as far as, you know, yeah, 1948 01:42:20.090 --> 01:42:23.310 I'm a big Conor fan. But Ronda, for her importance 1949 01:42:23.350 --> 01:42:26.300 to the sport, to win all those matches, finally to 1950 01:42:26.600 --> 01:42:29.279 lose that last fight, and then to make the comeback, 1951 01:42:29.399 --> 01:42:31.600 to see what she can do against, I mean, Amanda 1952 01:42:31.640 --> 01:42:33.859 Nunes is going to be tough. And, you know, we 1953 01:42:33.899 --> 01:42:37.300 saw what happened against, you know, Holly Holm with, you know, 1954 01:42:37.399 --> 01:42:40.699 Holly Holm's badass striking, and Ronda wasn't quite ready for that. 1955 01:42:40.729 --> 01:42:44.229 So it's just, It's a different ballgame, and Amanda Nunez 1956 01:42:44.409 --> 01:42:47.840 is a real good athlete, too. So, yes, on my 1957 01:42:47.939 --> 01:42:52.000 interest level, Wade, I'm going to go Rousey. Yeah, if 1958 01:42:52.039 --> 01:42:54.779 I could only watch one. It's like Ron Nitro. If 1959 01:42:54.800 --> 01:42:57.380 they're on at the same time on opposite channels, I 1960 01:42:57.399 --> 01:43:01.409 think I would tune in to see Ronda's fight. Fortunately, 1961 01:43:01.449 --> 01:43:03.289 that's not the choice we have to make, but it's 1962 01:43:03.310 --> 01:43:03.710 going to be. 1963 01:43:03.670 --> 01:43:05.930 A crazy final two months here in the world of MMA. 1964 01:43:06.170 --> 01:43:09.710 Visit MMATorch.com. Quick plug. We cover it every single day, 1965 01:43:09.750 --> 01:43:12.329 breaking news, commentary, fight previews, live fight coverage, and so 1966 01:43:12.369 --> 01:43:17.609 much more. Steve, your show, Steve Austin's Broken Skull Challenge 1967 01:43:17.829 --> 01:43:23.529 season premiere, Sunday, November 13th, 10 Eastern, 9 Central. They 1968 01:43:23.550 --> 01:43:28.770 can go to cmt.com to watch past episodes and get 1969 01:43:28.789 --> 01:43:32.149 caught up on the show. And you've got Podcast One, 1970 01:43:32.189 --> 01:43:34.649 the Steve Austin show, two shows per week. You
just 1971 01:43:34.670 --> 01:43:37.609 did a show with Kurt Angle that dropped on Tuesday. 1972 01:43:39.460 --> 01:43:41.859 Plug anything else and plug that. Tell people on this 1973 01:43:41.939 --> 01:43:42.460 angle interview. 1974 01:43:43.380 --> 01:43:44.619 Hey, man, I tell you what, I had a great 1975 01:43:44.640 --> 01:43:46.819 talk with Kurt Angle. I read an article that he 1976 01:43:46.859 --> 01:43:48.920 was taking 65 Vicodin a day. So I sent him 1977 01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:51.050 a text message. And, you know, most of the guys 1978 01:43:51.060 --> 01:43:52.930 in the business I don't talk to anymore. I'll send 1979 01:43:52.949 --> 01:43:54.510 him a text message here or there. I'm just not 1980 01:43:54.550 --> 01:43:57.010 a I'm not a phone guy. I'm not trying to be, 1981 01:43:57.229 --> 01:43:59.210 you know, a hermit or nothing. But we just you know, 1982 01:43:59.529 --> 01:44:01.710 I just kind of keep to myself like everybody else does. 1983 01:44:02.439 --> 01:44:03.640 And so I said, hey, man, would you like to 1984 01:44:03.699 --> 01:44:07.159 talk about that on the podcast? Because I never knew 1985 01:44:07.699 --> 01:44:09.659 that you were in that world. So we had a 1986 01:44:09.699 --> 01:44:12.000 great conversation. I think it's one of the best podcasts 1987 01:44:12.020 --> 01:44:14.060 that I've ever done just because of how open and 1988 01:44:14.199 --> 01:44:17.279 candid Kurt was. So, you know, I've got a family-friendly 1989 01:44:17.300 --> 01:44:21.800 show on Tuesday, explicit content on Thursday, and they're on iTunes. 1990 01:44:21.819 --> 01:44:24.359 You download them for free. Like you said, the Broke 1991 01:44:24.380 --> 01:44:28.270 Skull Challenge starts November 13th, 10, 9 Central time. I'll 1992 01:44:28.310 --> 01:44:29.869 tell you what, this is going to be a badass 1993 01:44:29.909 --> 01:44:32.149 season of the show. We had some real awesome people 1994 01:44:32.210 --> 01:44:36.170 out there, and it was a blast. And that's all 1995 01:44:36.189 --> 01:44:41.029 I got to promote, Wade. On Twitter, I'm SteveAustinBSR. On Instagram, 1996 01:44:41.210 --> 01:44:45.050 I'm SteveAustinBSR. And I appreciate you calling me, Wade, and 1997 01:44:45.109 --> 01:44:45.810 putting me on your show. 1998 01:44:46.710 --> 01:44:49.560 Steve, thank you. Always a pleasure. Thank you so much, 1999 01:44:49.609 --> 01:44:50.880 and we'll talk to you soon down the line. 2000 01:44:51.979 --> 01:44:54.810 You got it. Catch you down the road, Wade. Excellent. Thanks. 2001 01:44:55.289 --> 01:44:59.069 That is a stone cold, Steve Austin, November 13th, CMT 2002 01:44:59.590 --> 01:45:02.350 broken skull challenge. Check it out. And always great to 2003 01:45:02.369 --> 01:45:04.010 have Steve on the show. Thanks everybody for joining me. 2004 01:45:04.270 --> 01:45:06.409 If you're not a VIP member, there's so much that 2005 01:45:06.430 --> 01:45:08.390 comes with the VIP membership that I think you will love. 2006 01:45:08.449 --> 01:45:10.430 If you love our style, don't tell anyone else, but 2007 01:45:10.449 --> 01:45:12.329 if you listen this long to the show, you get 2008 01:45:12.369 --> 01:45:14.350 that sale price. So go check it out. Thank you 2009 01:45:14.409 --> 01:45:16.630 everybody for listening. Here are some more details on PW 2010 01:45:16.649 --> 01:45:18.930 torch VIP membership to close out the show and big 2011 01:45:18.970 --> 01:45:20.609 thanks to Gabe Sapolsky at the top of the show. 2012 01:45:21.229 --> 01:45:24.529 and Steve Austin for their generous time and insights into 2013 01:45:24.649 --> 01:45:27.970 both of their current involvement in the professional wrestling industry. 2014 01:46:12.729 --> 01:46:15.909 Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our 2015 01:46:15.930 --> 01:46:21.189 shows commercial free. A nice streamlined listening experience. pwtorch.com slash 2016 01:46:21.250 --> 01:46:24.609 go VIP for full details on a commercial free listening experience. 2017 01:46:24.949 --> 01:46:27.500 And with a full VIP membership, you can create custom 2018 01:46:27.560 --> 01:46:30.359 feeds for individual shows or groups of shows by theme 2019 01:46:30.380 --> 01:46:33.399 or and also unlock nearly four decades of archives and 2020 01:46:33.539 --> 01:46:39.359 access our ad-free website with VIP exclusive content, pwtorch.com slash govip. 2021 01:46:39.640 --> 01:46:41.239 Your time is valuable, and that's one of the reasons 2022 01:46:41.279 --> 01:46:47.050 we offer VIP membership, pwtorch.com slash govip. You can participate 2023 01:46:47.090 --> 01:46:50.109 in the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast by emailing your 2024 01:46:50.170 --> 01:46:54.859 question or topic to wadekellerpodcast at gmail.com. You can also 2025 01:46:54.880 --> 01:46:58.520 participate in the Wade Keller Post Shows by emailing wadekellerpostshow 2026 01:46:58.779 --> 01:47:03.069 at gmail.com during or right after Raw, Dynamite, or SmackDown. 2027 01:47:03.170 --> 01:47:05.310 Let your voice, let your opinions be heard on our 2028 01:47:05.369 --> 01:47:09.329 shows via email, wadekellerpodcast at gmail.com for the flagship and 2029 01:47:09.369 --> 01:47:14.810 wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com for our post shows. It's next-level coverage 2030 01:47:14.829 --> 01:47:17.409 that you come to expect from the PW Torch brand. 2031 01:47:17.630 --> 01:47:22.270 No AI, no rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors, no clickbait, 2032 01:47:22.310 --> 01:47:26.920 no deceptive headlines, just high-quality writing, breaking news, and fascinating 2033 01:47:26.960 --> 01:47:30.779 flashbacks every day at pwtorch.com. Pull yourself away from the 2034 01:47:30.840 --> 01:47:32.939 vacuous social media experience that I know many of you 2035 01:47:32.979 --> 01:47:35.800 regret once you get lost in it for minutes, if 2036 01:47:35.840 --> 01:47:38.699 not hours at a time, and settle in for high-quality 2037 01:47:38.739 -->
01:47:43.239 PW Torch-branded wrestling coverage. Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti 2038 01:47:43.260 --> 01:47:45.579 when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, 2039 01:47:45.619 --> 01:47:47.500 now you can listen to him every week on the 2040 01:47:47.560 --> 01:47:50.829 Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell 2041 01:47:50.869 --> 01:47:51.250 you more. 2042 01:47:51.369 --> 01:47:53.810 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with 2043 01:47:53.829 --> 01:47:55.909 the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's 2044 01:47:55.970 --> 01:47:58.869 comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. 2045 01:47:58.949 --> 01:48:01.869 From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. 2046 01:48:02.029 --> 01:48:04.229 The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest 2047 01:48:04.260 --> 01:48:04.840 club in town. 2048 01:48:05.060 --> 01:48:06.840 Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling 2049 01:48:06.880 --> 01:48:11.199 life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com 2050 01:48:11.479 --> 01:48:14.399 slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible 2051 01:48:14.420 --> 01:48:17.729 with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other 2052 01:48:17.890 --> 01:48:19.189 iOS or Android app out there. 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And then sync it with Spotify, 2061 01:48:46.470 --> 01:48:49.000 and you can listen to commercial-free versions of our free 2062 01:48:49.020 --> 01:48:50.899 shows like the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller 2063 01:48:50.920 --> 01:48:54.340 Podcast Flagship, our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch Daily Cast 2064 01:48:54.359 --> 01:48:57.909 lineup online. Again, all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. 2065 01:48:58.090 --> 01:49:00.609 But with third-tier membership, you can also unlock all the 2066 01:49:00.630 --> 01:49:03.649 VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade, The Fix 2067 01:49:03.670 --> 01:49:05.310 with Todd Martin that I host with Todd every week, 2068 01:49:05.750 --> 01:49:09.729 the Wade Keller News Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array 2069 01:49:09.789 --> 01:49:13.569 of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with different hosts and different themes. 2070 01:49:14.069 --> 01:49:18.060 Check out the lineup. 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A PWTorch VIP membership doesn't just give you 2083 01:49:51.949 --> 01:49:53.840 ad-free access to these shows and a ton of other 2084 01:49:53.850 --> 01:49:56.880 VIP-exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain access 2085 01:49:56.939 --> 01:50:01.100 to our unmatched, vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous 2086 01:50:01.140 --> 01:50:04.100 week-to-week coverage through our progressing Torch Weekly newsletters dating back 2087 01:50:04.119 --> 01:50:07.180 to the late 1980s, along with streaming and download access 2088 01:50:07.239 --> 01:50:10.810 to hundreds of retro radio shows from the 1990s, including 2089 01:50:10.819 --> 01:50:14.250 some of my interviews with wrestling's top newsmakers in the 90s, 2090 01:50:14.569 --> 01:50:17.520 and also our podcast library dating back to the year 2003. 2091 01:50:17.510 --> 01:50:18.210 There's no larger. 2092 01:50:19.750 --> 01:50:23.729 Longer-spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with 2093 01:50:23.789 --> 01:50:27.829 a PWTorch VIP membership. Now approaching 20 years of podcasting. 2094 01:50:28.050 --> 01:50:31.670 Go VIP and dive into our post-pay-per-view roundtables, our coverage 2095 01:50:31.710 --> 01:50:35.640 of some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top-name long-form interviews, 2096 01:50:36.079 --> 01:50:40.800 and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. PWTorch.com 2097 01:50:40.899 --> 01:50:44.260 slash go VIP. We have a streamlined sign-up form, and 2098 01:50:44.279 --> 01:50:46.380 you can pay with PayPal or directly with your credit 2099 01:50:46.420 --> 01:50:49.010 card or debit card. In one or two minutes from 2100 01:50:49.069 --> 01:50:50.890 right now, you can be a VIP member and diving 2101 01:50:50.930 --> 01:50:54.140 into our library, pwtorch.com slash govip.
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