Everything Has A Purpose: David Auerbach on Navigating Challenging Work Environments ၏ စာသားမှတ်တမ်းအပြည့်အစုံ

again. Again, like I said, I know we're gonna go more deep, but at my peak, when I was working at my desk from 4:30 AM Eastern until 5:30 PM Eastern, go home crash for a couple hours decompress, go to bed at eight o'clock Eastern nine o'clock Eastern wake up and repeat like. I had no life. I had no downtime. And so now I feel like I'm still trying to play catch up on all the stuff that I missed out. More importantly, trying to catch up on the sleep that I missed out on. So I'm a good sucker for a nice afternoon nap on Saturday and Sunday with the golf tournament on Jess: 6:56 yeah. David: 6:58 that's me in a nutshell right there Jess: 6:59 That's about the only thing that I can pair golf with is a nap so David: 7:04 Just the announcer's voice. it's Jess: 7:06 it's so soothing. It is. I know I'm such a bad Augustinian, I think is how you say it being from Augusta, Georgia. We have the Masters Nationals here, I should, I hate that word, but I say I should be more into golf. I like the aspect of bringing people in town and having a great time with them over golf, but it's never been a sport that I ever had access to growing up or anyone that I knew my family or near, near me was interested in. So just there just wasn't any David: 7:40 Just because you have the most popular golf the most popular, famous golf course in your backyard that people would literally give their left. You know what, just to be able to go tee it off. And it's like down the street from you and chances are not that I know anything. You probably know somebody too, that could probably get you on the course or get you access. Yeah. I, would be taking up more of an interest if too. Jess: 8:05 yeah, so, so, okay. So you're a golfer. You are a Phish-er with a "Ph". David: 8:14 Also known as a deadhead Jess: 8:15 a deadhead? Yep. Camping every summer David: 8:18 Summer Yep. Jess: 8:20 A Beach goer with your wife. Sounds David: 8:22 Yep. Yes, Jess: 8:23 fair enough. David: 8:24 Happy with a book and the nice sandy beach and ocean Jess: 8:29 A writer. Speaking of books. You're a writer. David: 8:32 Trying to, yes. Jess: 8:34 I think there's something so clarifying about getting the words your head and in your heart onto a page David: 8:43 I saw a movie a couple of days ago and it's, it was like a small indie flick, but the guy was talking about how he is writing a book and the guy goes, I've always, taught that if you have writer's block, that means you're writing about the wrong thing. And I thought that kind of resonated with me because when I started writing this book it just flowed right outta me. It was just so easy. But then as like my own therapy as I was going through it, it just made me angry and I'm like, wait, I don't wanna be going down this path. And I'm sitting in my wife's office here today and my wife is the creative vision. I'm not a creative. I,

just, I know my skills, I know my weaknesses. And so one of the things, I always try to surround myself with people smarter than me. I know what I know. And I know what I don't know. And you wanna make sure that you put those people around you that sure as heck know a lot more than you Jess: 9:36 Oh yeah, oh yeah. Hence the part of the reason I love what I do at Alpha Architect for sure is I'm constantly surrounded by smarter people than I am. And it's, empowering actually, if it's the right crew because you can draw that strength from them, the things that they know you don't have to find it in yourself. David: 10:04 Can I sell Alpha Architect for a love Wes and Pat and the team. And I hope that they do listen to this. I've worked with them in the past. I would love to work with them again. And people are like, why are you so pro Alpha Architect? I'm like, look at Wes and Pat they're military veterans and they basically brought a military mindset to the ETF issuer. I'm like, who else do I want on the frontline managing my ETF than respected military officers? Like I couldn't think of anybody better to steer the ship for me. And so I've always had immense respect for the team there for the business, how they operate things and that again, I can call it that military mindset that's guided them down that path. And love those guys, wish them nothing but continued success. And very lucky that I do consider them Jess: 10:51 And thank you. That is so very well said, and it speaks to this aspect that we're gonna get into in just a little bit of how many inroads there really are to finance, right? And, you don't have to be good at numbers to be great in the world of finance. You don't have to be good at understanding puts and calls in order to be great in the world of finance. But if you've loved those things, if those things make sense to you, then there is a great place for you as well. And so with respect to Wes and Pat I love that their skill set for operating and commanding a team of people to pay attention to the details and to manage the minutiae of trading. And all of that has worked itself into a business that is superbly squarely in the middle of finance and a benefit to this world. It's, neat to see that. And I wish more people knew that they could just lean into their strengths, lean into the things that they are passionate about, lean into the things that they love that into the world of finance and, find yourself here doing those things. David: 12:10 There's no question about it. And I think they're two good examples, cuz they've also surrounded themselves with such thought thought leadership, credible folks for anybody that's watching this again and I'm biased. I reference these two pieces all the time. When I talk to people. Alpha Architect has put out two of the best pieces in the industry, as far as I'm concerned. Number one, Wes' whitepaper "So you wanna launch an ETF" and they walk through the Alpha Architect getting launched. And number two was the Leadville a hundred mile hike piece that they published a couple of years ago. And if your jaw doesn't drop and you're like, dude, I want that guy steering my ship after reading those two pieces again I, just, I feel like nothing is gonna sell you on that. And so those guys put out just great pieces every single week from economists and PhDs and like really smart folks, like stuff that sometimes I don't understand where I have to go to somebody smart and be like, can you dumb this down for me? Cuz I don't understand this. And they do a really good job of what I call narrowing the playing field so that everybody understands what's going on. Todd Rosenbluth he's always talked about, know what's under the hood of your car. What's under the hood of your ETF. And I think Wes has done a really good job of highlighting for a lot of these funds. Do you really know what's under the hood of this what's driving that alpha or that Jess: 13:38 mm-hmm on that. he wrote one recently on that topic of what's under the hood of your ETF with the kinda emergence of these single stock ETFs on on the playing field. And he ripped that bandaid right off showed the world what was under the hood of that. David: 13:58 There's a lot of complicated products that are out there and it's very difficult for a lot of people to frankly grasp what it is for some of these guys that have two X, three X levered, buffer, inverse ETS with options, futures, overlay strategies, and granted that product doesn't necessarily exist. When I started this venture several months ago a guy said to me, David, you gotta sell me your fund in seven words or less. He goes, you've got about that much interest for somebody to either stay with you or you've lost them. And that's stuck with me in that whole time that we've been doing this, that if you can't phrase your value proposition in just a handful of words, then luck trying to sell it to grandma and grandpa who lived down the villages in Florida the smartest family office, high net worth investor. The guy that manages hundreds of billions of dollars in wealth. Jess: 14:55 Yeah. To move towards simplicity is a much higher skill, than moving towards complexity. One of my favorite players in the in the ETF world is Eric Balchunas because I, imagine him sometimes as just laying an ETF on a tray and just sliding it out into Twitter world. Just what is everybody gonna say about this today? David: 15:19 Look what he did with K-pop this week. He basically is like, Hey guys, check this thing out. And 10 different guys are like, this is a great idea. This is garbage. This is gonna be on the trash sheet. This is gonna be a winner. I don't know? I wish we knew the answer to that. It's almost like you remember Back to the Future 2 when the, the book of the book, all the sports results, he he's Jess: 15:44 he knows everything. David: 15:45 dude. I wish I had that book. I

wish I knew how all this played out. Then I would joke then we'd be on our G5s on our way to Fiji. Jess: 15:52 You can't know, but i, enjoy reading and just seeing the, conversation around that. Speaking on that coming into finance, being someone from the sports world, not being someone I would consider knowing much about money coming in. Twitter has been really fantastic place and I've met some really incredible people, including yourself. And so everybody's journey so far that I've talked to into finance has been different. I've not met a single person who's told me the exact same story of how they got in. I think maybe only one of my guests I'd have to think about it for a minute was your traditional way into finance. I love your story because, and I will let you tell it, but it is if someone was called out of the womb to be in finance, like this is David. And so tell us how you got into finance. Take it all the way back, cuz I knew you gotta take it back to a young age. David: 17:07 I was very young. If you go back to when I was like five, six years old, my father was a CPA growing up, subscribed to the Wall Street Journal. We would have stacks and stacks of newspapers around the house every single day. And because it was in the office and I would see this publication, I one day grabbed it and I started looking at it. My father start back when the paper used to publish stock tables in the Wall Street Journal. And it listed every single, publicly traded company. My father realized, okay, He's interested in this let's exploit this. And so my father was showing me like, again, I was a young kid. I what do I like cartoons and sports and coming into my own. And so my father was like, oh, you like sports here. Check it out. Here's the Boston Celtics. You can buy a shares of Boston Celtics and when I was young, like my parents bought me IBM or Disney and so he was like you own this stock in your portfolio and you own this stock and check out here's this new company called Microsoft, check out what they're doing. And so I was looking at. And I saw I, see a number, jump off the page. And I think at the time again, I'd have to go back and look, let's say it was like $15,000 a share and I dad, is this a typo? What's up with this stock and it wound up being Berkshire Hathaway. And I said to him what's Berkshire Hathaway. And he said oh, it's this famous company it's based in Omaha, Nebraska. There's this guy, his name is Warren. But remember I'm just a kid. do I know? And so I'm like, wow, that's cool. I wanna start checking this out. Immediately, like literally the switch flips. I was in a little bit of a different situation growing up. My father was a CPA, married to his job. My mother unfortunately dealt with major bouts of depression, was a Prozac adult of the 1980s. And I was basically left to fend for my own in the morning. My favorite breakfast would be running to the freezer, grabbing a fudgesicle Popsicle cuz that's healthy to eat

at six o'clock in the morning and I would turn on CNN to watch Stuart Varney and, learn about wall street and watch the ticker crawl along the bottom, the pre-market stuff. And again, I didn't understand 98% of the stuff that I heard on TV, but was so fascinated. And this was the first time I was ever exposed to the New York stock exchange and seeing the crowds and the hand signals. And I'm like, dude, that's gonna be me. I want to go do that Jess: 19:33 There. There's action. There's players. David: 19:38 You can go talk to people today. What do you wanna do when you grow up? I don't know. I'm 25 and I'm still trying to grow up. I don't know what I want to. At seven years old, I knew what I wanted to do. There was no question about it. I was gonna be on the floor that guy. Jess: 19:51 there with fudge pops for breakfast. I love it. David: 19:54 Heck yeah. Cuz I Jess: 19:55 Parents, take a beat. It's gonna be okay if your kid has a Popsicle for breakfast David: 19:59 Jess, I'm gonna, I'm gonna show you, I'm gonna show you a sign of our age or my age. I was a Ritalin child of the eighties. If you remember, way back when, they used to give Ritalin once I finally got off the Ritalin started settling down. That passion didn't change. Jess: 20:14 Love that. David: 20:14 My grandmother said to me, when I was this age, 6, 7, 8, 9 years old, David, you better find something you love to. Because when the alarm goes off for the next 30, 40, 50 years at whatever time it is, you're either gonna wake up animated, jump into it and go do whatever it is or you're gonna be dreading, I gotta go back to this place again today. Are you serious? I gotta go do this. And she's like, when you start doing that, You better go find something else to do and having that speaking in the back of my head, love what you do. Go find something that you love to do. I knew what I loved doing was watching the markets and my first major wall street investment was with my bar mitzvah money. I put a couple of grand into Fidelity Magellan in 1989 and three years later that basically bought me my first car when I was a teenager and as a result, I was so excited and I'm like, wow, this is all it takes. Just wait three years, you double your money. Triple your money. You could buy a car. That's easy shit. Anybody could do this. Obviously it didn't work out that way, but again, it geared me towards that path of, Okay you're gonna go to college. You're gonna go take finance classes. You're gonna find your way to work on the New York stock. But remember. So I'm talking to you today in a city called Richardson. Richardson's a suburb of Texas. I'm not exaggerating my high school that I went to is like 30 seconds down the road going north here. My house is like two minutes down the road there. So like I haven't gone very far in life. I'm still in same neighborhood that I grew up in, but yet I've had all these worldly experiences that I went

to the university of Texas down in Austin for four years, took these classes. And all right, graduating. Awesome. I'm in the interview pool. Let's go. Let's get out there and get a job. Well, wall street guys weren't hiring down in Austin, Texas. I remember getting down to like literally the final interview to go. It was almost like to be an auto loan originator and they offered me this job and I don't know what it was, but I had this epiphany. I'm like, wait a second. You wanted to work on the New York stock exchange auto loan origination. That's not stocks. I got lucky again, my father had a former partner who was another CPA that was subleasing office space from my father. And he had known that I wanted to get on wall street so he is do you want an intern with me? Do you wanna learn about the markets and get your feet wet? So I did it my junior year, winter semester. And then senior year, winter semester, because summers were for summer camp. I've been, like I said, I've been going to the same summer camp since 1987. And so Scott, was his name. Scott gave me an internship and I was really enjoying it. It was dealing with individuals. It was financial planning. It was dealing with the markets. And this is going back on the heyday of internet stocks, pet.com and WorldCom, EnRon, all that fun stuff before the shit really hit the fan. He was like, if you like this, I would love for you to come on board after graduation and I will help you get established. I'm like, awesome. Great. I accept. So when I graduated my senior year, like two weeks later, I started working for Scott. And this was again, back in the day when you could go to MSN or Yahoo or some of these other platforms. And you could build out a client's portfolio, save it on a disk, go to the client's house and put the disc, sync it up to Yahoo and boom, there's the client's portfolio. They can track everything. And I used to build out these disks for all of Jess: 24:12 Okay. All right. David: 24:15 He, sponsored me for my seven and 63. I got my licenses. It was great. And I was, on my own. Now if we want to fast forward a little bit. Jess: 24:25 I do. David: 24:25 my licenses. Jess: 24:26 a second. So David: 24:28 yeah, please. Jess: 24:29 a disk I'm a little, I'm a little fixated on the little floppy disk David: 24:32 the little plastic. This yeah. Jess: 24:33 This. This is great David: 24:35 Oh again, this is, go to Jess: 24:37 couldn't store anything in the cloud, David: 24:40 Correct. Exactly. So what we would do is we'd go to Yahoo finance, you would say, okay, I wanna create a new portfolio. You would build in, okay. I own a hundred shares of Microsoft at this price. I own a hundred shares of Intel at this price. And you would build out the portfolio based off of the client's statement. We'd save it on the dis. And then basically I would go to the client's house. I remember driving an hour and a half to one client's house. I, one day one of his bigger accounts used to be in Shreveport, which we're one of the closest casinos used to be. So I'd be like, Hey do you guys want to go to Shreveport? I'd get a couple of my buddies. We'd go they'd get in the car, I'd drop him off at casino. I'd go to the client's house for an hour, and a half. Sit there and have the meeting go hang out with them at the casino. And then we would drive back. But we would create these portfolios and. If there was client changes portfolio changes then either I would have to re-put the back on the disk or literally hand hold the client of, okay, click here, do this. So and, It was a diverse group of people. So imagine trying to educate a 75 year old guy through Yahoo finance, who doesn't know the first thing about a computer mouse it was eventful. And it was cool though. Open because he knew oh, David's a young kid. He gets this, he could do all this stuff. That's not a problem. So I was people would reach out to me. Hey Dave, like literally, like they would call me, they didn't wanna talk to him. They wanted to talk to me, which was cool. Jess: 26:05 You're with the relationship with them, cuz you're doing all these things. David: 26:09 I was doing all the stuff like, Jess: 26:11 That's how it David: 26:12 he was picking the, because again, he was a typical asset manager of the of that time where it was fee based, he had some ultra high net worth guys, but it'd be like, let's say he'd buy 500 shares of Microsoft, hypothetically, you get a hundred, you get a hundred, you get a hundred we'd have this trade blo and we have to allocate it and everything. And so it, it was showing me the ropes. Remember I was doing thecut work, emptying the trash cans, doing all the filing, doing the stuff that the the kid on the desk does well. Okay. That's great. So. Jess: 26:43 a great experience. David: 26:45 And I welcome any, student that's listening to this call if you want to get involved on wall street, call your financial advisor, go down the street, go knock on the D, because they want educate. They wanna show you how these things work. Remember, as you said, you may not understand bids and asks or puts and calls and all that stuff. advisor is different with a different focus. Shit go back. 10 years ago, 20 years ago, there was an advisors focusing on ETFs. at spies and triple QS. That was it. It was a hedge to the portfolio and it was just there to be there, but they weren't like trading it actively. Jess: 27:19 Yeah. But you're right. It's so valuable. It's so valuable. I started out in that same place, knew nothing, and I would answer phones and people would ask me questions that would make my brain explode, and I'm having to communicate this back to the advisor that I was working for. And he was so wonderful in that way. He spent time with me, educated me, answered questions that I had made sure I understood why he was the

recommendations that he did. And I learned so much in that opportunity David: 27:46 I'm very lucky that I learned a lot from Scott. But I'm also a big believer that remember good things happen out of bad situations and bad things happen outta good situations. So let's fast forward because all right, so It's a couple months later we're up and running. We move offices. We got this great new space. I'm so excited. All right, I've made it. I got my licenses. Let's go. All right. Time to grow a book of business. Let's get out there and grow. Hey, Scott, the sky wants me to have lunch with him. Can I go? No, like what? No, you can't. Why you're mind during market hours from eight I'm in Dallas. So from eight 30 to three o'clock you're mine, no networking, no prospecting. You gotta go do it after, outside on your time after hours. And I'm like, Jess: 28:32 How does it make sense? David: 28:33 It doesn't make sense, like I was always taught networking is a 24 7 gig. Like you don't put a time on when you network. Yeah. Especially if you wanna build a business. He's Yeah. I'm paying you. I tell you what your hours are. I call the shots. You are not, you're not prospecting and networking during business hours. And literally I go, Scott, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard you're wrong when it comes to that. PS, I got fired the next day when I said that, when I called the boss out, calling his business. But between you and me and, the walls here, that was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my professional career, and I would still stand by it. But remember, good things come out of bad situations get laid off. And this is back when they used to publish what they call a classified section, a job section employment, Hey, you're looking for a job. And so. Like literally the next day I start flipping through and I see an ad I'm not exaggerating. It was literally like that big two lines series seven series 63. Question mark. Call this number. Jess: 29:35 Oh, David: 29:36 Okay. Hey, saw things 7 63. I'm calling this number. Want to interview? Come on in. Okay, sure. Don't know anything about it. All right. I walk in. This was a nice woman, takes me into the back office and starts firing questions off at me. What's your history? What do you do? What do you know about this industry? And the industry turned out to be real estate investment trust REITS like, I don't know. What's a REIT I don't know And she's have you heard of self storage properties? Yeah of course. I know public storage. That's a REIT like the shopping center down the street. Yeah. That's owned by a REIT. This office building we're in, that's owned by. Oh, okay. Yeah, I understand. It turned out to be that they were looking for an institutional trader. Jess: 30:30 Yeah David: 30:30 mutual funds, hedge funds, banking companies, insurance companies, like the Jess: 30:34 Yeah. David: 30:35 And. I guess I said the right thing did the right thing. She offered me a job on the spot. You want this? And I'm like Yeah sure. And as I'm walking out, she goes, I just wanna tell you, 22 kid, 22 year old kids, your age, don't get this opportunity that you're getting today. So basically don't F. Jess: 30:51 right. David: 30:53 Thanks. Thanks for that vote of support. I appreciate that. And I walked in on the first day, met one of the guys. Who's a friend today. We've worked together obviously over the many years and he is David, don't get too comfortable, man. This industry, this like whole thing about REITs. He's it's gone in five years, nobody's gonna give two shits about REIT in five years. He's keep your resume fresh. And you're not gonna be here long. I was at green street for 11, almost 12 years. And for anybody who knows the REIT industry, continues to thrive and grow exponentially. And I was very lucky because I got to watch this entire industry grow. I got to go through the global financial crisis, the global housing crisis. This was on the heels of long term capital management. And Lynn, who was my boss, took a very hands on approach with me. And there's that expression WWJD, What would Jesus do? Like we would always say, what would Lynn do? What would Lynn do? And so Lynn was like the mother hen I, she was my mentor. I was a blank. I was literally an unmolded piece of clay that she was able to take and shape mold, fines, finesse, and make out to be the trader that she wanted me to. Jess: 32:16 cool. David: 32:18 Here's how you talk to a client. Here's how you go to dinner with a client. I'll never forget. I was going on my first business trip and I had a, I had my ear pierced and I was walking in the office. She goes, you will be taking out that earring before you visit your client. And I'm like she goes let, me rephrase that. You will be taking out your earring. And if I find out that you don't dot, I'm like, yes, ma'am took the earring. I was on the phone within two. Literally she's like you get this here, take this count, talk to this person mimic what I'm doing. Pick up this fact, when you used to have the little side phones here, you pick up the phone and the ITG phone systems where you press the button and everything, but she's okay, take a quote or, Hey Dave, I'm busy take this report and this is back before order management systems and you'd have a sheet of paper this long of just taking an execution report. Oh my gosh. And then if you go in and put it into the system, It was, so this was back again before technology had really taken over the institutional side, but like really being thrown in the trenches. Here's what I loved about it. Go talk to any CPA. And what are you doing from nine to five tax returns? What are you during? What are you doing during tax season tax returns? It's the same process over and over you and I are sitting on this podcast right now. Now I don't know anything but the market could have completely changed

in the past 43 minutes that we've been doing this right now. You know what I mean? I don't know what to expect from minute to minute, day to day, week to week, month to month, Jess: 33:52 now. yeah, David: 33:54 Lord knows, but that's this excitement that we had in the market. I'm like, dude, this is what I want to be doing. Jess: 33:59 that's right. David: 34:00 day was an adventure. I was there for 11 years and it was a great, time. Jess: 34:05 There's one thing that you said that I don't wanna miss and I wanna make sure people don't miss you said I, got to go through the global financial crisis. All of my peers who had been here during those times had hope and also the grit that came from moving through something impactful to your career as that. And I love that you said that, and I think it's really important to acknowledge that these moments, especially some of the ones that we're in right now are tough maybe for advisors who are just starting their journey. Wow. When you look back on these moments and realize that was part of the foundations of your career, you're gonna be so grateful. David: 34:52 I comment about people that have literally dealt with again talking about some of our REITs and their management teams. They have dealt with recessions depressions, optimism, prosperity wars, famine. 9 11, but frankly the, newest one that every single person was COVID. The housing crisis of 08-09, the global financial collapse that we dealt with in the early two thousands, in my opinion, was nothing like what we dealt with COVID over the past couple of years, like COVID puts all of that other stuff to shame. And so that's something that we all have in common is how we dealt with the COVID impact every single day on the market. Even if we're working at home, it sure got depressing. Seeing the dial down a thousand points every single day It, it takes a toll on you. I'm a big believer that when you see red on the screen, it puts that negative vibe on you and green on the screen and you feel a lot more happy. And when you just kept seeing days and days of red, boy, it beat us up mentally. Really tough. Jess: 35:49 sure did yeah I, think there's, going to be a lot of people that look back on this and feel grateful their experience here David: 36:00 no doubt. Yeah, and so after getting to experience all that fun stuff for close to 12 years and through the other side of the financial crisis, through the internet crisis and collapse and everything well, My boss at the time, got moved to London To set up a London operation for our company. They promoted from within which eventually failed. And they then brought in a New York sales trader to run our desk. The New York sales trader brought in the New York approach where it was, were all sales traders and in Dallas We're all sales traders. And he's the head trader. I'd always wanted to sit there, press the buttons, be the guy in the crowd, do the business. And when he was like, Nope, that's gonna go on my desk. Now. I'm the one that it gets to execute. And I'm like when do I get to do that? He goes, when I'm overwhelmed, when I have too much going on, then I'll let you press the buttons. And I just I, was so dejected at that point, cuz I'm like, wait, I've spent the past dozen years doing this and now you're kicking me out to so that you can take this over. I'm like, look, you guys are paying me good, money just to sit here and be like a, phone guy. No, I don't like this. 30 days later or so boss, California comes in town and they fire me on the. And again, when somebody's what do you do? I'm on wall street. Explain that to me. So I always call it the reverse triangle analogy. I'm on wall street. I'm in REIT. I'm in Dallas, Texas. I'm at the bottom tip. So what I was doing was so niche that I'm like, I'm screwed. I'm not gonna find another opportunity in Dallas doing res or anything. And I found a broker dealer here who was very active in the ETF space. Who had a couple of REIT accounts. And he knew that I knew his REIT accounts and he was like, can you build out a re business for me? Yeah sure. I know everybody let's do that. He's I'll teach you ETFs. You could help me grow the ETF business People had started telling me when I was about to get board, do some homework, learn about this firm, learn about the founder, make sure that this is the right decision for you. But I'm like at some point you just suck it up and you just deal with it. And I did, I just, I accepted the job and it was cool. Cuz again, this was back in 2012 when frankly, 90% of the ETF issuers that exist today, weren't really around. And it was getting that opportunity to do a lot of trading. ETF portfolio management, client prospecting, as well as growing a REIT business. It was cool, Jess: 38:39 it's a great job description for, David: 38:41 but it was great. But obviously what on the surface is not what's happening beneath the surface. And in that period of almost seven years that I was there, I saw over 150 people coming in and out of the door for employment. I dealt. All sorts of issues both personally and professionally working with management and I was like the one constant that had stayed there for so long. Jess: 39:09 Thought at all about why you were the one constant. David: 39:13 I've spent a lot of time thinking about that. I was always taught to be type a get an email, respond to the email. Don't wait a week to respond to the email you get. Especially when it comes to client orders seconds are priceless in our business. And so I was just always taught to be very hands on. And he gave me autonomy to grow the reap business and to talk to people and pick up the phone and stuff, which is cool. But in the same breath, you. We all have different objectives in life and different priorities. I mentioned to you my priorities, obviously, besides my family and my cats are going to see fish

and camp. This person's priorities were having the newest car, the newest Ferrari the country club membership, the newest suit going to the newest club or restaurant. yeah exactly. It was very superficial appearance. And so for any of the money that would be generated, it would go into his pocket and his personal spending and lifestyle, as opposed to putting money into the business and growing the business. And we started to butt heads within the first year or two about why are numbers down? You don't gimme anything to offer our clients. What are you talking about? We act, we do execution. We're trade execution. You're a great trader. And I'm like, Yeah, but go talk to Morgan Stanley and tell them what do you have to offer David at your shop while I publish a note that covers the re sector and I'm a good re trader and. It's you need to offer research, buy, sell, hold research, corporate access, put on the conferences, put on the dinners, literally do all the things that wall. All the things that wall street shops, do you need to do this? And I'm like, okay, so, Hey, can we do this, and this? No, we can't do that. No, we can't do that. No, we can't do that. And I'm like I can't grow my business. If you don't do anything to help me. Jess: 41:07 yeah. David: 41:08 Meanwhile, I'm growing his business. I'm prospecting, we're bringing in more ETF guys. We're getting more trading business. And going back to that, what would Lynn do? Expression? I was always taught. For traders. It doesn't matter if it's a hundred share order or a million share order. Lynn always taught me to be very hands on with my clients. And to this day, I treat every conversation, order, whatever it's my own money. If, I see my stock go down I feel bad for my investors. And so fast forward a little bit, I was working grueling hours. I'd be up at two 30 central every morning. I'd be up the door by 3, 3 15. I'd be at my desk at three 30 central. I'd be riding my research well before anybody would get to the office, be doing baskets, client prep, trade reconciliation, all that fun stuff. Go through the trading. Sit there after hours because he wouldn't have somebody there for an hour and a half after the close. Why? Because his clients knew that they could find us. And I'm like, you wanna lead by example, you show up for five minutes every single day, cuz you're on your way to the golf course. You're on your way to go have lunch with this guy. But yet you can't be bothered to sit here until four 30. No, that's why I, pay you to sit here or. Hey guys, we have this client coming in the office. Everybody needs to dress up, suit, tie, everything. the client would literally come in for about two minutes when they would go downstairs to go to have lunch. Jess: 43:03 This seems to be such a common experience in traditional finance where all of these outward appearance, motivated actions are the majority of the substance of the value that we provide for someone I have a suspicion that part of the reason you stayed as long as you did is because of what Lynn taught you. You knew that you were providing value, but for someone who's coming into a position like that and who doesn't know where to contrive their value and has never been taught by a manager before, like you were, they're looking around and going, what's the value here. And I see that a lot in traditional finance with advisors who I've talked to that are looking to make a move. They're tired of feeling like their value is only on the outside. It's, just this really challenging way to find yourself in the finance world. David: 44:17 Absolutely ridiculous. And maybe you're right, because I would be going through this with the partner going back to that, what will Lynn do? Lynn would tell me to do this, and this. And that's how I would choose to re lead my business when I was at this shop. And it was contr to how he ran his operation. And so a great point is everything was a conference call. Every single thing was a conference. The entire office it'd be. If he wants to talk to me, let's get the entire office on the phone and talk to each other five minutes, 30 minutes, an hour long, everything was a conference call on the bridge. And I was going down a dark road, these hours that I was working the personal and professional toll it was taking on me. started having some very bad thoughts. To the tune that I was, and I'm not exaggerating days, if not weeks of really jumping off what I call the high five here, the major freeway jumping off the bridge, I was, I'm not exaggerating. It was such a place to Jess: 45:26 that was. David: 45:26 And with my options so limited, I'm like, if I keep doing this, I'm gonna be dead in 10 years, unless I kill first. I was one of my camp trips. Remember I used to be on with clients and friends. Like this was a networking trip. Jess: 45:45 Can I ask a few, David: 45:46 One of, Jess: 45:46 I ask a about that? So David: 45:48 Yes, please. Jess: 45:52 What was that feeling of hopelessness? Cause I'm looking at everything we've talked about today and all the things that you've done have been so successful and all that you've learned feels like there's just so many different that you could have taken your career in finance David: 46:14 So the answer, I feel like it's a very complicated answer and that's a great question. And I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out about this, about why didn't you get help sooner. Why didn't you speak out? Who could you turn to? The answer to a lot of this question is frankly, I don't know. Maybe I was, scared to reach out and say, help me. Maybe I put on the face of, I can do this. This is not a problem. I'm okay. But when you. You get on one of these conference calls and I'm sitting there and I work for 13 hours a day and I get to go home and deal with 45 minutes of traffic in the afternoon because of rush hour traffic, which isn't

necessary as a wall street trader, but because he mandated. So I think all of these factors were piling onto me that. I, just, I was getting to my breaking point and knowing I have a very addictive personality. It's not, let's just have one cocktail. Let's have five cocktails. Let's not smoke a cigarette. Let's smoke a whole pack of cigarette. You know what I mean? Like literally let's not go gamble. Let's go. Hard and gamble. Like I, I know my triggers and my weaknesses and all of these things started piling up and piling up and I felt like the weight was getting heavier and heavier on my shoulders. My wife noticed it. My family noticed it. My friends noticed it and I told them I knew the why I was in this place. And I'd always say, I love this. I love my team. I love my partners. I love my clients. I love that part of it, but the name on the door and how they operate the business and what they do to their employees is literally me. And so I'm, at camp, I'm with my crew. And sadly, Jess: 48:03 right? David: 48:04 one of my, one of my other hobbies was reading Anthony Bourdain and watching Anthony Bourdain television shows. I got privileged to meet him. I saw him speak, I have an autograph book of his, like my wife and I used to watch his show back in the back when he was on food network before he became who he was, I was exposed to Anthony Bordain to again, my seminal of, wall street. I'm sending out my camp retreat and I'm surfing through apple news. And I read about Anthony Bourdain committing suicide. It happened when I was at camp and it was like the biggest punch in the gut. When you see somebody that you, know adore. Take his own life, knowing that I'm considering taking my own life at the same time as well. Jess: 48:58 Ugh. David: 48:59 And I'm walking out, I walk out, I go onto the camp. I literally, I can picture this. Like it was yesterday. It's so vivid. It's I could paint a picture of it. I'm walking along the campgrounds towards the cabins and my phone rings and it's the boss, man. Where are you who authorized this trip? How dare you take this trip? I never approved it. We're gonna be talking as soon as you get in the office this, is unacceptable and hangs up the phone on me. Meanwhile, I'm already in a cloud. I'm already depressed as it is. And he rips me a new one right there. And I at at that point, I'm not exaggerate literally at that moment, the cloud's parted at. The sun comes out and there's this Ray of sun, I'm not it's like literally heaven opens up and the heaven talks to me and I have this magic epiphany right there at that moment. Dude, Anthony Bourdain just killed himself today. The guy that you thought has everything, money, happiness, whatever he wants and he couldn't take it. And he pulled that trigger. David life is too short. Rolling on this earth for a finite amount of. And you don't need this asshole ruining your finite amount of time. That's on this earth. And so this happened the beginning of June and as I'm coming to this realization as I said this, like I literally feel the weight start lifting off of me and I'm like I'm getting chills as I'm telling this Right now. I wish you could see. And I'm. I'm leaving this job by the end of this year. I don't care if I'm unemployed and have to go on unemployment. I am leaving this job well, fast forward a couple of months, and I know that this is happening. Bossman goes to a client's office for a broker vote review. Hey, we're gonna go see a client gonna go catch up in their office. The same client had given us a program. A program for those that don't know is a bunch of orders could be five, could be 10, could be a hundred, could be a thousand orders, but the client gives us a program. And on this particular day, the market's volatile as all get out. This particular stock that they're trying to sell is very O liquid. They want to get out of the name. The stock is down 10%. And again, I don't remember the exact order details, but let's put it this way. They wanted to sell 250,000 shares of stock that traded like 50,000 shares a day. And they had to be done in a down tape. And I'm trying to call the client and get some guidance and I get no answer and I leave a voicemail and I shoot an email and nobody responds. And I didn't finish the order that day, because again, I was always taught, be very hands on with your orders, let the client know what you're doing. They know what you're doing. Part of my, but like I always used to say, Hey man, if I fuck up, you know why I fucked up? Because you were along for this trade with me you knew how I was working this order. And if a client doesn't call me. I don't wanna screw up if I do, and I don't wanna screw up if I don't. I want them to tell me yet, David, Hey, you know what? yeah. We know it's down 10%. Just got the order done. It's we gotta do what we gotta do, but because nobody talked to me, took control of the order. Okay. Boss goes to the office sorry, you guys moved down the broker list because of David screwing up this order. And immediately, as soon as he walks out of the office, calls us. Get every, get everybody on the line conference bridge call Right now. Get everybody on the line gets on the line. Everybody's on there. David, what the fuck did you do? How dare you ruin one of my clients. You walk me through this whole trait and yelling at the top of his lungs at me in front of the entire office. Meanwhile, He's in Cleveland, we're sitting in the Dallas office and he is yelling at me in front of the entire. And I'm like, you know what? need this. I quit. And I Right there, like that was I'm done. I gave my notice and I'm, I. I'm walking out I'm, closing things up. having this epiphany and people are like, dude. Wow. Oh my gosh. Are you serious? If I was walking away as the last man standing after seeing 150 guys going out the door, that was finally your breaking point. Meanwhile, knowing that I was already broken, knowing

again my, buddies used to say to. Do you work to live or you live to work? Most people work to live, I was Living to Jess: 53:38 work David: 53:38 the hours that I was doing. Friends are going to Phish concerts. I can't go because the Jess: 53:42 No. David: 53:43 I can't go because I'm tied to this. I can't go to the recon conference because of this whatever. Jess: 53:49 wild is it that because just putting myself in your shoes, if that order of events had been mixed up, and instead you had heard those words from your boss prior to having. Moment of epiphany. And prior to having all of these plans, you knew in your heart, this is not the place for you. you are and working on a new solution, but leaving regardless, like You're not deriving your value from what he thinks of you from what he thinks you've done for the firm. If that order of events had been mixed up and he had given you that call David: 54:34 I, cringe at the thought of it and, the answer is. I am not a religious person. I don't disrespect people, but religion, all that stuff, I was always taught. There's two things you don't talk about politics And religion. You're always gonna piss off half your audience, but clearly in that moment with the way that the timetable all worked out. There was definitely some kind of divine intervention. There was no question about it in my mind for literally for the clouds to open at camp and that Ray of sunlight to come down. It's like what in a movie and I, wish I could paint that picture because it truly happened that I I have this epiphany and I'm like, you know what, why this too, God. Jess: 55:21 right. David: 55:22 I go, when am I happy knowing that Anthony Bourdain, after again he's, done. What makes David happy? David's really his most happiest when he, is at Phish concerts and he's sitting on these campgrounds and I said to myself at that moment, I'm like, you know what I'm done. I don't care if I have to go work for myself. I don't care if I have to go work at Starbucks or go deliver papers or whatever it. but whatever the next thing is that I'm gonna do, it's gonna be so that I can go see any fish concert whenever I want. And I can go to summer camp. If I want to go to summer camp, if I wanna just go be up there for eight weeks with all the kids and granted now, remember I'm married. I have kids. I, have cats, no kids, but like my wife, isn't gonna let me go up there for eight weeks, nine weeks of the summer. I wouldn't do that to her, but in the same breath I'm going for two weeks. I can plug in. Remember everything's remote these days. I can just log. As long as I got wifi, I don't care. It starts with having a very supportive spouse when we were going through this transition. My wife, when I was working at for Lynn, when I was working on everything, starting with this book this other guy, like my wife was a grad student. My wife was a PhD student, a doctorate student. She gets her master's or PhD. And when I went to my last broker dealer we took, I took a very big salary hit going from shop one to shop. But again, trusting your spouse through that partnership. My, my wife said to me, David, you carried this family carried us for the first 10, 15 years. As I got my degrees and got everything up and running, she goes, it's my turn. Now let me take care of things. You don't worry about it. I got this and there's nothing that scares me more. What keeps me up at night? No I, this is serious. This is serious. I could have all the money in the bank. But when I drive down the highway or drive down the street and I see the guy standing at the corner, holding up the sign of homeless, broke poor, help me out. Like my wife knows that's. My biggest fear is that's us on the corner. And I granted we have family, we have friends, we have people that we know with money and everything, but because of how I was raised in my F up head, that's my biggest fear is disappointing my wife and we're outside on the corner with our cats. And so when I was I was leaving in the last couple of weeks. I happened to connect with an investor relations colleague in the Reed industry. And her name is Mary, and Mary's a rockstar. And Mary knew about my plight of where I was going and everything. And Mary. Dave come do corporate access with. Go do your I'll sponsor your re note. We'll get you a Bloomberg we'll grow corporate access. And if you want to go trade with somebody, you can go and trade. Remember good things happen out of bad situations. And Mary's David, you are so well respected in this industry. I call it yin and yang. My strengths compliment her weaknesses, her strengths compliment my weaknesses. One plus one is sure. A lot better than just one. I'm like, this is awesome. Okay, great. Hey Mary, can I go to fish concerts? Absolutely. Go have a good time. Do what you want to do. I don't care. Jess: 58:41 how did you receive her saying that you were so well respected in this industry after being beat down for those David: 58:47 It's a funny question, cuz still I get these comments today and I get asked that question. Going back to why I'm messed up is the way I am having that absent mother that was growing up. And always trying to do right by her. Like I'll never forget bring home a good report card or What I thought was good and why can't you be like the girl down the street? Her name was Lindsay, and I hope Lindsay's not listening to this, but my mother would be like, why can't you be more like Lindsay? I wish I had Lindsay as a daughter instead of having you as my son. These are the things I heard growing up and it's yeah and it's poison. And so it's I Al that's one of my flaws, like I say, I'm sorry too much, or these things. And it's because of my relationship with my mother growing up, I like to joke with folks, I'm gonna save a therapist, a lot of money, cuz I've already peeled back the onion. I know why I messed up because I am,

it's obviously having to, how do you address? And so the answer to you answer your question when Mary told me that, but first of all, I knew it. The, re industry actually did write an article about me and my newsletter and my process and my beliefs. Like when they put me in the magazine, I'm like, wow, that somebody actually cares what I say. Or when I've got close to a thousand people on my distribution list and it's, CEOs, it's CFOs and guys reach out to me and be like, David you have the best morning note on all of wall street. I won't read anybody's else's stuff before I read your note, because you tell me what I need to focus on every day. Eventually getting this positive feedback made me realize, wow, people are actually listening to what you have to say, people do care. And so to be able to get that. Microphone that opportunity to speak or to work with these companies. It was a great, feeling. Cause yeah. We earn a paycheck. There's no question about it. It's great to have that, biweekly, that monthly compensation. When a boss tells his employee, you did good today. Thank you for your hard effort. That positive affirmation carries more weight internally and externally. I feel than the amount of money that you're getting biweekly in your paycheck. Jess: 1:00:56 yeah, it's a both. it, they both have to be there or I'm out. I need to be fairly compensated in a way that I can provide for my family. And I need to know that I'm appreciated. can't over fill the income cup and hope that it tips over into the praise and affirmation cup they're both required and they're both separate and they both need to be filled and brag on you for a minute because you reached out to me to be on the podcast. And you said, I have a story to tell that I think people need to hear. And that is that piece that so many people don't arrive at where they it. And it's, a shirt that lives in their closet. It's shoes that they own. And you put you put that on and you reached out. So we're only here because you own it. David: 1:01:54 It's like going, it's like going to rehab, you can't escape your demons. Your demons are always there. It's how do you choose to address those demons? And so I will always have him haunting me in the background. But as a result, it makes me the better person that I am today because it's, whether it's me interacting with my colleagues on my ETF team, my intern, my wife, my friends in the world around me, those events have shaped me to be the person that I am today. And to think that I was thinking about not like now that I'm down the road with this, like I say to. How could you have those thoughts? How could you put yourself in that position? Why didn't you do something sooner? But I'm also a big believer that's, that the whole would, should have coulda. And so I can't sit there and focus on something that could have been, I've gotta focus on the here and now. And again, going back to that being respected well I want to bring my partner, Phil Bak into this. I traded for Phil as one of my clients when I was doing this gig for many years. And I got along very well with Phil and his team. And during COVID, Phil called me out of the blue. And for the fact that Phil made that introduction on my behalf because of my relationship with him and the team, and he trusted my knowledge in the space again, it's that being appreciated, being respected knowing that you are that expert. David, what do you think about, how do you feel about what would you do if literally bring me in for the conversation and David there's a lot of ETFs that are out there. How would you make this different? It took me two seconds to answer that question but be listed, that's actually a great idea. We should do. We should go down this road. You should do this stuff. You know what I mean? If this is a boring sector, res are like old people, investments, dividends, income. that's what people focus on when they think about res. Every shop says, res are five to 15% of the portfolio. We know where that slice is of where res go. I don't know where specs fit in that asset allocation model or single stock ETFs. As an example, I don't know where that fits. But I know where my little res and real estate fit in. And so, because I know that message, it doesn't matter if I'm talking to you to Wes, to Bob and Naples, Florida, to grandma and grandpa who are in the villages or the smartest re investor in the room. And Jess, what is the one thing that you and I have in common besides being on wall street is we go to sleep with a roof over our head. We're fortunate enough to have that roof. And so where you sleep is the most important investment decision that you make, if not for you, for your kids. So, because everybody understands that real estate is personal then they have that aha moment. And that's an easier dialogue. And so for me, when I was working at my last broker dealer and I'm again, I'm very close with my former partner, Jason, he's a rock star. I hope he's listening to this. And I thank him for giving me that opportunity, but Jason knew I was very connected. He knew, I knew all the re guys he knew, I knew where all the bodies were buried. And so Jason's David, do your. Go trade, go interact, go build relationships. Oh, by the way, help me place these deals. This ETF may not take off I don't know how this ETF plays out, but the fact that I actually have a voice now and I'm respected inside the industry, my mindset sure. Is a lot different than what it, was just a couple years ago instead to bring it back home. But as I mentioned, people have very long memories, especially when it comes on wall street But like for the college student, that's listening for the high school students, that's listening for again, what I call that next generation don't burn bridges. You never know when your friends become your clients, your colleagues, your partners, your bosses, your supervisors, your investment dollars, whatever it

is. Don't burn bridges, because you never know, frankly, when your past is gonna come back and haunt you or in the same breath when your allies remember many years down the road. And Hey man, going back to that a hundred share million share, Hey man, you stuck by me when I was a nobody. And because of that, I will always be partners with you. And one of my closest friends who I go to a lot of Phish concerts with, and I'll be with him tomorrow. He is the prime examples that he's I don't care where you go, wherever you go. We're opening up with you. You are our guy and. Again, you can't put a price tag on that appreciation. And so I'm, very thankful that you've helped me have this conversation because if I'm able to get somebody again, even if one person has this epiphany of I'm going down the same road, I need to listen to what he said so that I'm not the next Anthony Bourdain or whatever it is then this was. Well spent for all of us, but I do feel that we all are capable of having what you call this breakthrough moment. This aha that, it may come sooner rather than later, it may take years and years of help in therapy, but there is light at the end of the rainbow. And. I think it starts at home by having loving support a good friendship, a good network. But as you Jess: 1:07:22 yeah. David: 1:07:23 you started, what's your escape having good outlets to escape, It's turning on golf and falling asleep, playing a couple of hands of poker or going to a Phish concert, whatever it is, to have a healthy life. Balance. and I did it and I was paying the effect of that. So as a result, what I know now do I wanna work in another office building? I don't wanna deal with traffic. I don't wanna deal with office buildings and any of that bullshit. I wanna deal with it on my own terms. And so remember, when you surround yourself with those right people. Really? It's a Toki, but really the sky is endless. Jess: 1:08:02 Yeah. And I see that, and I think a lot of reason, sometimes some of the reasons that people do burn bridges the, that path feels so much more clear. It feels in the moment, like if I burn this down, then at least I know that I don't have to deal with that anymore. But what I heard you say, and what I absolutely agree with is you don't know that you may actually have to deal with that person in the future. the fact that you burned this bridge could cause additional problems in the future. Both, choices, either the choice to burn it down or the choice to just take the next right step that you can see. And and honor that will lead to another correct step and lead to the opportunities that you have right now. It wasn't because you saw Armada ETS in your future. Wasn't because you saw that there were things that you could give to the world. It was just that you trusted and you knew I don't need to work there anymore. And that was all you knew at the moment. And that's enough. That's enough. And trusting that David: 1:09:19 it took other circumstances for me to have that. moment, but Better than having to wait an extra month or like you said, what if things have turned out differently? I don't know. I'm I fear the thought of it. I fear the thought of it for my wife and our cats and everything. And again, I know we can joke about this now, but at the end of the day, like I said, it keeps falling back in line. Life is too damn short. Jess: 1:09:46 Yeah. David: 1:09:46 Life can change in the blink of an Jess: 1:09:48 absolutely. David: 1:09:49 how COVID shook families up. And it's gone in the blink of Jess: 1:09:52 Mm-hmm David: 1:09:54 I don't know what happens on the other side. All I can do is focus on the here and now. as a result, very thankful of guys like Phil and and others that have brought me into the here Jess: 1:10:06 mm-hmm David: 1:10:07 And my supportive wife, as well as in other good example that have helped me pull out of that hole to be the person that I am today. Jess: 1:10:15 I love that. It's been such an amazing conversation with you. This has been even better than the conversations that we've had before. And there's a part of me sometimes when we do that David: 1:11:01 Thank you so much, Jess. That's so sweet of you to say that again I, love what you were doing here as you're growing this platform. And I appreciate you giving me this opportunity just to tell my story. Like I said before, if one person walks away learning from this and, it saves them from jumping off that bridge, then I, feel like everybody wins about this at the end of the day. Jess (2): 1:11:25 Jess Bost is a Retirement Income Certified Professional and the Vice President of Brand Partnerships at Alpha Architect. Due to industry regulations, Jess will not discuss any of Alpha Architect’s funds on this podcast. All opinions expressed by Jess and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of Alpha Architect or its affiliates. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. For more information, please www dot alpha architect dot com