ကူးယူချက် 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:10.960
Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:12.480
I'm Jeff Cranson.
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:29.600
By now, because I've talked about this a number of times in the podcast, you've heard the statistics, but to set up the conversation again, an estimated one to two million vehicles collide with large wildlife in the United States each year.
00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:33.679
The crashes result in approximately 200 human deaths.
00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:41.439
That number might actually be higher, and some 26,000 injuries, and billions and billions of dollars in property damage.
00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:47.520
Nationwide estimates are that$10 billion annually is probably the cost of these things.
00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:52.719
And just an average collision with a deer alone is at least$20,000.
00:00:53.520 --> 00:01:09.599
So we know that wildlife crossings can prevent these crashes, and they think already some of the successful ones, especially in the western states, may prevent as many as 1,400 crashes in a 70-year lifespan, which translates into billions of dollars again.
00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:34.079
So I wanted to catch up with Amanda Novak, who's a resource specialist at MDOT, and she's working hand in hand with counterparts at the Department of Natural Resources with a grant that's allowing for the study of hot spots, places where these crashes happen with great regularity, and then identify mitigation methods.
00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:50.799
Again, those have been used very successfully in some western states and western provinces of Canada where they've built crossings over freeways and the animals have been funneled toward those crossings, especially elk and moose and bear, big big animals.
00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:55.439
We have elk and moose in northern Michigan and we have deer all over the state.
00:01:55.599 --> 00:02:05.280
And there's also some things going on that are part of the study that'll prevent crashes involving smaller animals like turtles, uh pine marten, and others.
00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:19.199
So I think this is a really important topic, both from a safety standpoint and from a cohabitation standpoint, and that we need to learn to live with the wildlife who populated some of these woods and forests before we did.
00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:21.360
So I hope you enjoy the conversation.
00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:24.479
Amanda Novak, welcome back to the podcast.
00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:39.360
I always appreciate talking with you about this topic, not only because I have a tremendous personal interest in wildlife and wildlife habitat and what we do to coexist, but also because of the safety components that you and I have talked about before.
00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:48.879
So we haven't done an update since you kind of had things in place to move ahead with the study that was uh made allowed by this grant.
00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:51.520
So can you uh talk about where things stand?
00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:52.800
Yeah, sure, Jeff.
00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:56.479
I'm happy to be back and actually have a good update this time.
00:02:56.639 --> 00:03:09.759
Um, so we do have um a contract in place with HDR, um, and we have completed our nearly completed task one, which um includes uh data input.
00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:14.080
So collecting data sources from all different entities.
00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:35.919
And so that's been a little bit of a struggle, but we have identified all known collision data sets to this point, and from that, we've drafted crash locations um and started looking at um where the hotspots are and setting it up for um deciding what which areas are a priority.
00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:45.919
Oh, sorry to interrupt you, but right there I wanted to ask you because anecdotally you had a pretty good idea about the hot spots, but um, has anything surprised you in those findings?
00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:53.599
Um I think the widespread crash locations for certain species have surprised me.
00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:56.479
Um, particularly why wild turkey.
00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:02.879
We've seen them across the entire state, including the southern part of the state, which I don't know why, but that really surprised me.
00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:06.560
Um just distributions of things was was interesting.
00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:14.479
We did see some of the hot spots that we thought we would see for the kind of the species that don't aren't so widespread.
00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:20.079
But deer, of course, I mean, when they're when the layers turned on, it's overwhelming, as you might imagine.
00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:24.639
So we're just it's just a preliminary look at it at this point.
00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:34.160
And um, from this, we're gonna wrap this stage up in about a month, and then we'll be moving into actually looking at the ecological view.
00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:45.199
So we'll start to look at the surrounding habitats and how those correlate to where these crash locations are and start actually giving some risk um based criteria to our findings.
00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:50.079
So, how did you um assemble the list and create those layers that you're talking about?
00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:58.160
Well, we took we have priority species in the grant um application, um, which were the larger species that impact motorist safety.
00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:03.839
So that was the moose, the deer, the black bear, the turkeys, um and elk.
00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:15.199
And those were pretty easy to analyze because we've got crash data back 10 years on all those species, and I'm not an MSP do a really good job of tracking that.
00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:37.920
So that was pretty easy to populate, where it's been a little bit more difficult is to um track crash locations for the smaller species that you know people don't typically report and are kind of hard to find even when you're doing carcass collection because they
Load full transcript
are so small and you can't really either tell what they are or they're gone by the time you look.
00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:44.000
Besides turtles, which we talked about a lot, uh what else do you include in that small species category?
00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:46.480
We are looking in the grant.
00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:55.920
Um, we are looking at uh the eastern Massasaga rattlesnake, which is a TNA species that MDOT protects in our projects as well.
00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:02.720
Um and DNR obviously has an interest in other entities do in protecting that species too.
00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:05.120
But MDOT has some pretty good data on that.
00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:14.480
So I think what we're gonna include will be really representative of the corridors where they intersect with traffic across the state.
00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:24.000
Um, we're also looking at the pine martin, and I know you and I have talked about that in a previous um podcast, but that one is a tribal species.
00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:34.240
Um and so the tribes have actually been providing us with uh some of that um collision data that they have or data where they know they exist.
00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:48.959
We did talk about this before, and I remember uh looking into it a little a little bit more because I I I wasn't aware, but how common are pine martin and are they just they're just so small and so easily disguised that we just don't see them much in the wild?
00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:58.319
I think unless you were um hunting them or trapping them um or really know much about them, I don't I think it'd be hard to find.
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:00.160
Um that's just my perspective.
00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:08.079
They're also kind of isolated in the state where they exist to um northern Michigan and uh the upper peninsula as well.
00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:10.560
So, you know, I don't think it's something you and I would see.
00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:12.480
It's a really beautiful animal.
00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:14.879
Yes, yes, for sure.
00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:19.120
So talk a little bit about uh where things go from here.
00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:25.759
Um once you get those layers established and you know, you know, what you're looking at, um, what are the next steps?
00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:32.319
We will as a group um start to look at some of the maps that HDR is putting together for us.
00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:37.519
And they are running these through um GIS modeling um programs.
00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:43.199
And so it kind of generates hot spots and we're we're looking at scale.
00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:50.399
And um, I don't know, there's a lot of things that go into it that I wasn't thinking about, um, but the maps are really starting to come to life.
00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:55.279
So then once we add that ecological piece, we'll really start to be able to see those hotspots.
00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:57.920
And then from that, we'll make some decisions.
00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:11.120
You know,
we have long term, we'll have um HDR propose some different mitigation measures for those locations, and then um we will hold some public meetings before the grant project wraps up.
00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:12.959
And what will those look like?
00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:18.319
Um, I assume there'll be a remote or online component to those public meetings.
00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:26.160
I think we were intending to have one in-person public meeting in each region um with the option to attend virtually as well.
00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:26.720
Okay.
00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.959
And what would you be looking for there in terms of participation and input?
00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:50.879
We will be proposing the mitigation measures and locations and then um hopefully having the public look at them and you know, give us their feedback on whether that makes sense or what we're proposing makes sense, um, and kind of go from there with the hopes of integrating some of this into our long-range planning goals.
00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:54.879
Stick around, there's more to come right after this short message.
00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:59.759
In Michigan, safety comes first on the roads to combat distracted driving.
00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:02.080
Michigan passed the hands-free law.
00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:10.159
The law makes holding or manually using a cell phone or other mobile electronic device while operating a vehicle a primary offense.
00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:13.919
This means an officer can stop and ticket you for violating the law.
00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:27.919
This can include, but not limited to, sending or receiving a call, sending, receiving, or reading a text or email, accessing, reading, or posting to social media sites, or entering locations into the phone GPS.
00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:34.879
With this law in place, drivers are encouraged to stay focused, keeping their hands on the wheel and their attention on the road.
00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:38.159
Drive smart, drive safe, drive hands-free.
00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:43.200
Michigan's hands-free law: making the road safer for everyone.
00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:57.519
So I guess if you you know blue sky this for yourself and the work that you do and the people you work with who have a real passion for this, um, what's the best case scenario a couple of years from now?
00:09:57.919 --> 00:09:59.200
Well, it's it's exciting.
00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:03.440
Hopefully, we have um a risk-based analysis done.
00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:13.519
And my hope is not just identifying the hot spots, but looking at a corridor approach and what risk we give the corridor itself.
00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:21.039
So you may have a big hotspot there, but you but think about the bigger picture of what does that look like across the whole corridor.
00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:28.159
And in addition to that, our other end product from this is going to be a GIS-based planning tool.
00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:42.960
And so our hope is that this is a living GIS document, you know, a GIS map where we're constantly inputting new, um, maybe even new species information and updating crash information and just keeping it as a living document.
00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:48.080
So this isn't just a snapshot in time, but something we just become accustomed to using.
00:10:48.399 --> 00:11:06.240
So we've talked before, and I think even since we've last talked, some other states have come online and I've noticed that some states, their legislators are actually passing laws that uh require the departments to be more aggressive about studying this and including crossings and in new projects.
00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:09.919
Um, is there anybody that you look at as a as a particular model?
00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:23.519
I know a lot of the Western states for obvious reasons because of the big animals in the mountains of Colorado or Utah or California, but I I know Virginia is even one of those states that's been pretty aggressive about this.
00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:25.679
But uh, what have what have you picked up on?
00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:31.600
Yes, um, I've actually formed some partnerships with some other other DOTs a little closer to us.
00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:34.639
Um, obviously I've been working with Missouri a lot.
00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:50.240
Um, they're they're ahead of us, so not so far ahead that they have dedicated funding or are really putting in infrastructure, um, but that they've gone through the planning process, they've identified their hotspots, and now they're figuring out how to integrate that into their planning.
00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:59.600
But as far as other states closer to us with um actual dedicated funding, I'm not I'm not working with anyone, I guess that's that far advanced.
00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:01.600
But I know other DOTs are working towards it.
00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:19.840
Yeah, we talked about Missouri before, and I thought that was really interesting that they've recognized this as so important and they have a lot of white-tailed deer just like Michigan, and they have a very diverse topography, um, even more so than Michigan, and that they have some, you know, real mountains in the southern part of the state.
00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:23.200
So what do you think you've learned so far just talking to them?
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:28.399
I am thankful they're ahead of us because I'm learning um, you know, just mistakes to not repeat.
00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:29.519
So that's helpful.
00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:42.159
Um but I but I guess I've learned most is that it's hard to take that next step and to change mindsets and to starting to integrate what we get out of this study into the long-range planning or project planning.
00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:48.879
And so I'm I'm eager to see what they learn from this, like how they end up phasing it in.
00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:54.000
Um so, but I I talk with them often, so I'm sure I will find out.
00:12:54.240 --> 00:13:05.600
We've also been sharing
mitigation-related documents um as well, because Michigan's going to be constructing that um exclusionary fencing on I-69 as one of the TAP grant projects.
00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:08.720
And so we've been sharing some details related to projects.
00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:22.879
I think that we we talked about this, and you can't overstate the value of not having to like start from scratch on these things that you have peers that you can talk to and you can reach out and find out what's working and what's not working.
00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:32.320
Um, you're talking about, I think, having a conference here in Michigan of people to talk about this sometime next year.
00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:34.720
So I'm I'm guessing that you're very hopeful.
00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:36.960
You'll have some interesting things to report by then.
00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:41.840
Yes, I I am hopeful, and I'm also hopeful I'll learn a lot at that conference.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:52.159
Um, we are hoping that um we will have five DOTs give updates um regarding this topic and where they are, and you know, they're at various stages.
00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:58.879
Um more to come on that, but we're we're hopeful that we'll have great updates for everybody and we'll learn a lot from each other.
00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:03.120
Yeah, I I think that it's it's actually fun to talk about these things.
00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:14.240
And um, I know I still get the jokes and the skepticism from people that say, yeah, you you know, you're not gonna teach the deer or the other animals where to cross.
00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:29.679
But what we found is that the other states and western provinces of Canada that have done this actually did have success, that that the animals do figure out after a while that um there's a safer place to cross if I just walk another, you know, a couple hundred yards.
00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:35.440
You know, that's intuitive for the people that that work in this, but I think a lot of people don't realize that and how effective it can be.
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:37.440
Yes, that is that is exactly right.
00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:51.840
And I've been talking, I have a great partner um in Canada, um, and he is actually him, or it's probably not gonna be him because he's retiring, but someone from his office is likely to present at that conference um that you referenced.
00:14:52.000 --> 00:15:03.360
Um, but I've been learning a lot from him, and they have measurable changes with with everything that they've put in, and they've had it in for so long that it's easy for them to measure the success at this point.
00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:07.840
Is that somebody with uh Y2Y in Alberta or another agency?
00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:09.679
It is Parks Canada.
00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:10.480
Okay.
00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:11.200
Good.
00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:12.480
Good, interesting.
00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:18.559
Well, let's talk a little bit more about some other things related to this that also your your work gets into.
00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:29.279
And um, how are we doing with you know, pollinators and and plantings that uh that encourage pollinators and and help them in their in their life's work?
00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:31.039
Um we are doing great.
00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:36.240
Um, in Bay Region, uh we planted everything that we planted last year.
00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:38.320
Um everything looks pretty good overall.
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.960
We didn't have, you know, it's always seasonal.
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:48.159
We we truly are like the farmers, just praying for the rain and praying for the seasonal conditions um to get things to grow.
00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:51.600
Um but this year everything turned out pretty good overall.
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:54.639
Um so thankfully we've had the rainfall.
00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:57.440
So I I think the pollinator plantings look beautiful.
00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:00.879
I've gotten some pretty nice feedback from the public.
00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:03.440
Um, and we've expanded some of them.
00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:04.720
Oh, that's great.
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:05.279
Yeah.
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:08.080
And and you're hearing uh from some of the other regions.
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:15.840
I think uh I think both Grand and Southwest have and maybe university have been doing some things too with um some of those those plantings.
00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:24.480
Yes, I wasn't a part of any of like the team meetings this spring with the other regions, but I'm I'm pretty certain they're marching on as they were last year.
00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:33.120
Um maybe, you know, every year we move things around a little bit and it's based on soil conditions and if we had issues at the site or if it's too wet for the year to plant.
00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:38.879
Um, but it's likely if we did like abandon a plot that we probably replanted it somewhere else.
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:41.679
So sunflowers are the probably the most visible.
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:43.840
Those are the things people see and talk about the most.
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:46.399
But uh, but what else would you include in that category?
00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:48.960
We did um wildflower plantings.
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.919
We did, I noticed it's actually in the median.
00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:59.840
Um I was traveling back from up north um on Monday, and I noticed that the we we use a mix called the DOT Showstopper.
00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.720
It's got a bunch of native flowers in it.
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:06.559
And I noticed we did a big median planting up north and north region.
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:12.160
Um, and then we have done it in Bay Region, mostly at our at the port here on Welcome Center.
00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:16.640
We've tried it in some other areas, but it it's just it's struggled a little bit.
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:18.880
Um, I think it was based on soil conditions.
00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:25.920
Yeah, but
that's interesting because that harkens back to the original program that was uh inspired by Lady Bert Johnson, right?
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.599
And highway beautification.
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.519
Yes, yes, it does.
00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:31.440
It's it's really improving the roadside.
00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:36.480
And actually up north it's such a vast median that I can see where it's a great benefit.
00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:37.599
Oh, yeah, right.
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:40.880
There's a lot of stretches that have very, very wide medians.
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:42.079
Yes, yes.
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:43.119
Well, what else?
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.799
Is there anything else that you want to add, Amanda, to uh to what's going on?
00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.599
You're always so enthusiastic about your work.
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:52.079
It's it's fun to talk to you and and hear from you.
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:53.920
But uh, what else would you want to say?
00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:58.640
I think um, I guess the last part would be an update to our TAP projects.
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:03.200
So we have that project on US 127 in Grashek County for the turtle fencing.
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:05.039
That turned out really, really well.
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:09.920
We we didn't do it yet, but we met our project letting date, so that's exciting.
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:13.039
Um, and it'll be constructed next year in the spring.
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:21.039
And we're partnering, obviously, and that's not the um we didn't receive the grant, that's DNR's grant, and they provided the grant match as well.
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:22.960
But that has been very successful.
00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:30.240
We found a um by America approved fencing material because that was nearly a showstopper at one point.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:32.079
Talk a little bit more about that.
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.839
What was the Buy America provision that that caused delays?
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:44.079
We were having a difficult time finding a product that met our needs that was actually manufactured in the United States.
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:52.480
And so the original path we were going down was a product that wasn't manufactured here, and so we would not have been able to get approval to use it.
00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:53.359
Gotcha.
00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:53.839
Okay.
00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:54.160
Yeah.
00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:57.519
So yeah, so I'm sorry, go ahead and finish that thought.
00:18:57.839 --> 00:18:58.960
Oh no, that's okay.
00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:00.720
Um, so that's really exciting.
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.279
That will start um in spring of next year.
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:08.799
And then we have the wildlife fencing project um near K-Pac Road on I-69 in St.
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:10.000
Clair County.
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:12.000
That also met the letting date.
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:15.519
Um, and so that will start next year in the spring as well.
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:19.279
And so that's like three miles of exclusionary fencing.
00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:24.000
Um, it's gonna include jump outs and some electrified mats at the fence ends.
00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:29.920
And you mentioned that um this this is part of TAP awards, and that's transportation alternative program.
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:32.960
So talk about how that relates in this context.
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.119
Yes, um, that program is pretty amazing.
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.599
It's got all different categories that compete.
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:43.759
So that includes um improvements for pedestrians as well.
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:48.000
And so this has historically not been funded.
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:50.960
And so these two projects are pilot projects.
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:55.359
So we're really just going through and documenting how things have worked.
00:19:55.440 --> 00:20:00.640
Um, if these do get screened in the future, what does that screening criteria look like?
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:01.920
You know, a variety of things.
00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:08.640
So we're learning through this process, but it would be really amazing if long term it was a funding source for this type of work.
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.000
Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:11.680
Well, thanks, Amanda.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:13.200
I uh appreciate what you're doing.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:14.559
I always appreciate these updates.
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:22.799
It'll be really interesting to watch where this goes over the next two, three, four years, I guess, and and see where we're at and and what a difference we make.
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:38.240
I mean, we know from other states and the stats that are pretty well documented now that these these can make a real difference and and prevent crashes and not just save the lives of the animals, but save the lives of human beings too.
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.640
Yes, yes, that's correct.
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:41.519
Well, thanks.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:42.720
We'll talk again soon.
00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:44.000
All right, thank you, Jeff.
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:47.920
I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Machine Transportation.
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:52.160
You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzz Rout.
00:20:52.400 --> 00:21:08.319
I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Devler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, and Jackie Salinas, who hosts the podcast on various platforms, and transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.