28 | You’re Not Starting Over: Juliana Pereira on Finding Yourself Through Career Pivots ၏ စာသားမှတ်တမ်းအပြည့်အစုံ

impossible. I'm like, why is that impossible? Let's go to El Corte Inglés, right? The department store and see what brands are there that don't have flagships. And I of course back then I was 26 years old. I don't know who I thought I was. but I think we're a bit courageous, more courageous back then. And I just picked up the phone and called, you know, Tiffany, New York. And they're like, actually, we are looking to open two new markets in Europe and Madrid would have could be one. Okay, you can do a pitch. And we ended up pitching and we ended up getting the account. And and so then it was interesting because my next pivot comes because of that. So there a headhunter. called me and said, Are you the person who's getting these American brands, you know, into Madrid? And it was a luxury retail outlet that had seven outlets in Europe and three in Asia. And they were looking for a head of marketing. And so then the story repeats itself again because I'm like, but I don't, I've never done a marketing campaign in my life. And they're like, it doesn't matter, come to the interview. And that was sort of, you know, again, going into something completely different, even though it's all under sort of the umbrella of communications. But completely different worlds. And so I was there for about three years, you know, working in that marketing department. And and then I decided that I wanted to leave corporate world and I saw an opportunity in the market to do, you know, kind of like I had this entrepreneurial vein because my father had his own business. And I know the sacrifice that goes behind that, but I also, you know, thought, why not? And it was a w I I did I I founded like a wellness kind of company. I and this is really funny because I would walk around Madrid and I'm like, why is there no place to get a manicure or facial? And and all my and people like my Spanish friends would be like, no no no no you do that like when you get married. I'm like, what do you mean when you get married? It's like on every corner Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah. Juliana N Pereira: in New York would and and there just was no culture. There was no culture of it. And so I was just like, okay. And because I came from luxury brands and I had, you know, the these connections already with the press, it was kind of like life went was setting me up, you know, for success in that sense. And it was the moment of bloggers. And so I opened, you know, sort of a manicure facial wellness spa and which became like a very big community of of women. And so that also goes into another part of Of me, you know, sort of entering that world of that it's not just a business. It's really is, it was really a space, you know, for people to connect. And because I had all the backgrounds of where I'd worked, it was really funny because you'd be getting a pedicure and you'd have like the head of like the Prado Marketing sitting to your right, and you would have like Cartier, you know, head of you know PR to your left. And so I had that business for about seven years, and it was a successful business. But what ended up happening is life. And I always say this as well. Pivoting, as much as we think, you know, career pivoting, sometimes we pivot because of life. I was burnt out in New York and I changed because I wanted a better quality of life, you know, so to come to Europe. And this pivot came because I was I was married with son that was a year and a half old and I was going through a divorce. And so I said, How do I have a business that's open Monday to Sunday? Because it was one we were allowed to open on Sundays, because that was another thing back then in Spain. Nothing was open on Sundays. and so I was one of the few businesses that we were open. And I knew that it was a day where women usually can, you know, have time to themselves. And so I said, How do I have a service business open Monday to Sunday with a one and a half year old getting divorced, which is a very tedious long Hugo Rodriguez: Mm. Juliana N Pereira: process in a country where I have no family, right? And so I don't I didn't have any support system. And so I was very, you know, I would say lucky, but I also think that we also produce our own luck, is that I had throughout these seven years, one of my really good clients was L'Oreal. And L'Oreal had bought Essie, the nail polish brand, and they were looking for a flagship store. And so They asked me if I wanted to, you know, if I wanted to sell. And it came at the perfect time, but it's another another nugget of gold that I will I will tell people is that sometimes that we think, you know, great. Okay, this all makes sense. The universe has aligned and then everything crumbles. And you're like, okay, why did that happen? Right. Jen Brown: I Juliana N Pereira: there's, you know, there's always a reason why. And so I, you know, I I I I had the conversation with L'Oreal. It ended up falling through because they wanted me to stay there for two years. And I was like, I can't even stay here two months, right? Like with a one and a half year old and on my own. and so I had to say no. And those are one of the was one of the hardest decisions of my life. But two weeks later, somebody walked in and he's like, Do you remember me? And I was just like, I see a lot of people. And he's just like, I was in the boardroom of L'Oreal. And I was just like, And he's just like, well, me and my partner were looking to buy a business. He's like, obviously I can't offer you what L'Oreal was offering you, but we're interested. So I ended up selling the business to them. So it's funny, you know, how life works in the end. And and this is where also the crazy, you sort of call it destiny or call it, you know, whatever you want to call it, was that. I did a small gathering for my VIP clients. And there was a woman who was getting married. And so she was there like every week. And when I did the gathering, I remember I was like, you know, kind of saying

goodbye to people, but I'm like, I'm not leaving the country, I'm staying, you know, I'm here. And everyone's like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? I was like, I don't know, right now get divorced and see what I do with my one and a half year old. Jen Brown: Yeah. Juliana N Pereira: And and this one woman that was a client, she's just like, Juliana, you have to, you have to come over for dinner. And I was just like, But I'm not leaving, you know, leaving, leaving. And she's just like, let's celebrate, you know, when when are you gonna, you know, when's your last day? So let's say it was on a Friday. So I I closed up the shop and I crossed the street because she literally lived in front of in the building in front. And I end up going to her her apartment and there are these three gentlemen. And so one was her fiance and these other two, and they keep saying, half Colombian, half Portuguese, born and raised in New York. You're such an IE profile, I.E. profile. And I was like, what is IE? Like I had no idea. I had to go to the restroom and Google it. And it was, it was a main, you know, now today it's a number one like business school in Madrid and university. And I was sitting there with with basic with like the dean of the business school, which she which was her fiance. And and they're like, Well, what are you gonna What are you gonna do, you know? And and so we just had, you know, regular conversation. I end up leaving, every and the next day she calls me up and she's just like, they want you to come to the campus. They're interested in, you know, your sort of like entrepreneurial, you know, background. The school is all about the entrepreneurial business, etc. And I was just like, Really? And then she's like, Yeah, what's your plan? What are you gonna do? I'm like, I don't know, right now just go sign this over and and figure out what I'm gonna do. And and I remember that on The following Monday, I went, I signed away my company, and then I went to the camp to their campus to have the interview. And they were looking for somebody, they had 160 different nationalities on campus, 10,000 students, and they were looking for somebody to start their campus life department. And so that was the next pivot, which was I was like, academia, but I've never been in education. And they're like, it doesn't matter. You know, like you've you've done way more difficult things and and we're gonna start with a team of two people. And and it was really interesting because I basically developed from scratch everything like what is campus life, right? So there was no mascot, there was, you know, like IE Day, the traditions, the clubs, you know, women in business and the hackathons and the, you know, we had a thousand five hundred events a year. It was like insane. And after three years of doing that, they decided to create the first vertical campus with like a 50-story building. They said, okay, well, do you want to work on this project and figuring out, you know, spaces and services and what the students need? And Hugo Rodriguez: Okay. Juliana N Pereira: for it not to be a KPMG, but to be, you know, the actual campus where architect students talk to business school students, et cetera. And so I worked on that fascinating project for another three years. And and then a headhunter called me. And again, it's you know, this is like Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah. Juliana N Pereira: this is life, right? And it was just like, well, we're looking for a global CMO for a tech consultancy. And I was just like, hmm, tech. And this was like post-COVID. I was just like, that could be interesting, the future. So I did it. But then after a year and a half, I'm like, what am I doing here? Like, this is like, you know, be people with like they're basically like with their headsets, if they even come to work because everyone was remote. And Just a completely different environment. It was a fascinating project as well, because it was an this amazing entrepreneur that he had bought like 22 companies and I had to, you know, as marketing head, had to put that underneath an umbrella. But it just wasn't, I didn't feel like the passion that I felt of being, you know, trying to develop a community and connected with people in that space. And that was the first time. And this is where I also it's another golden nugget. Which is we sometimes are so disconnected from ourselves that we don't really know what brings us energy. And, Jen Brown: Yes. Juliana N Pereira: you know, and right and what I saw very clearly at that point in time was this Hugo Rodriguez: Yes. Juliana N Pereira: is like sucking my energy. This is not bringing me energy. And when I was on that campus, I felt like I wanted to go to work every day, right? Like it wasn't work. It was, you know, getting people together. It was creating, you know, it was, you know, learning from students. It was, you know, them learning from me and from all my experiences. And so I I wanted to do that, but I wanted, I said, okay, how can I do this? But for companies. And that's sort of what my last pivot has been within the last two and a half to three years, is that now I go into companies and I help them by creating think tanks. Which is another way of doing create community. So companies that have B2B and so a way of engaging their their clients for thought leadership. And so what I do is I connect it with like let's say MIT review and in terms of doing a white paper and then have that, you know, then be a channel of communication. And so it's a different way of doing community building, but inside of companies, and and has been, you know, very rewarding. So this is and you know. And this all Jen Brown: This is Juliana N Pereira: brings me to, you know, this is I'm a cat with eight, you know, different lives. And people like my friends joke because all my they call me up and they're like, if you ever need somebody like Juliana's gotta know them, because you know from like a CEO

Jen Brown: Right. Juliana N Pereira: to like the acrobat at Cirque des Soleil. And I'm like, Yep. Jen Brown: So there's so much that you said in there. And wow, what a career trajectory, right? A few things that totally stand out to me. Using your community, building those connections. And what I what I heard you say a few times in there is maybe I I'm not going to say confidence, but that, wow, but I don't do that. Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah. Jen Brown: And somebody else seeing how those dots in your life connected you to be able to do the opportunity that was in front of you. And I'm really curious as you did that, those first couple pivots in particular, Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah. Jen Brown: what did that feel like Hugo Rodriguez: You look like Jen Brown: of I'm stepping into something I haven't done before? Juliana N Pereira: Yeah. Jen Brown: And and and you d right, you mentioned the confidence of being in your mid twenties versus perhaps later in life when it's like, can I still do this pivot? Juliana N Pereira: Do this. Yeah. Yeah. I think obviously, I mean, I'd be, you know, lying if I was just like, yeah, I'm super confident. No, I was scared every single one, even my le even my latest one of you know, being a Hugo Rodriguez: I can find it. Juliana N Pereira: you know, co-author of of this book. I I think the big difference is maybe once you're in your twenties versus now closer to 50, is is that yeah, you should have that confidence, you know, because you've sort of gone through all of this. But I think back then it was, you know, what's the word, you know, like they're gonna say no, right? Like what if Tiffany says no and you know, they just don't want to open a flagship here and and that's it. It's not a big deal. But I always what I've come to realize is that in a pivot, there's basically four crisis, right? So I think you have your identity crisis, right? It's kind of just like, okay, who am I? Like this is what I've been defined by. A lot of I've you know, all the people I've interviewed. I've interviewed doctors and lawyers and people who've invested a lot in in their careers. They're like, what I'm gonna throw this away, right? So it's just like, who am I if if I'm not this? Right. so you have kind of like that identity. Then you have like the the social crisis, right? So like will people accept me? Right? Will my family accept me? Will my friends accept me? Like who do I look like, right? If if I'm not this that I've you know created. And then you have a financial crisis, which is very different in your 20s than now within your, you know, almost 50s, where you have a family and you have your bills to pay and you have so Hugo Rodriguez: Right. Okay. Juliana N Pereira: it's just like, can I even allow myself, you know, to to do take this step and do this pivot? and then you have like the courage crisis, right? Which is, you know, how do I muster up all this confidence and every and understand? And this is a big thing that I tell people, is you are not starting from scratch. You are starting from experience. You are starting. And I don't care if you just have one job or if you've done two internships. It's like you are starting from everything you already are, right? Because you aren't just a job. You are a person before that. I always say, like, when people are like, I I've been wondering about this lately. I'm like, who was my mom before she was my mom? Right? Like people, people are people before, right? Jen Brown: right. Juliana N Pereira: so you are somebody before you have that title. you you were somebody in high school, right before you went to college and and and had your, you know, have that certificate that you have on the wall. So so yeah, I think that when when you do these pivots, and when I've gone through them, what I've realized is that it takes and and this goes back to like the research and these a hundred people that I've seen, like I felt it within myself, but like I wanted to test this out and see if other people, you know, if this was sort of a pattern. And The one thing that I found really fascinating is that everyone has pivoted because of it's not a career event, it's a life event. It's because something in your life, right, has shifted. And that could be a divorce, that could be a, you know, parent that died that made you reflect on something. That could be a move from to a different country. That could it could be so many different things, but it every single person that I interviewed, it was a life event that had happened. and then the second thing is that. All of these people, in the end, you know, they were not looking for another job, they were looking to understand something about themselves. And and I think you know, when I've spoken to serial pivoters, like I spoke to this woman that's 82 years old and had done 16 pivots, right? So, like more experience than that is difficult to find. and in the end. It all is, you know, she, you know, you circling back to yourself, right? So you're circling back to, and I remember this expert that I interviewed in New York, amazing advice is that he's like, you know, sometimes we're so disconnected that we don't know how to connect with ourselves. And he's just like, This is an easy exercise that you can have anybody do. So you sit on the floor in your room, let's say in your bedroom, you sit on the floor and you close your eyes and you think back. To when you were between eight and 10 years old, because that's a key moment in your life. And then imagine what was in your room. So, like, were there baseball cards thrown on the floor? Were there, you know, like what it what did you was your bike in the corner? Was there, you know, what was there? And and he was saying that that's such a key piece of information that you can gather from there because that was your essence. Right. And so, like, I think about back to myself. Hugo Rodriguez: No. Juliana N Pereira: And and I remember I always like my parents had like the

newspapers and like the magazines and like all stuff. And so I remember always be having cutouts. Like I would do like collages of stuff and I always and I would be like, you're so creative, you're so creative, you know, whatever, which came after. But that's kind of like where it came from. Like I really loved going through all of these magazines and like all the articles and like seeing, you know, kind of like the New York Times. You like it was weird because I had from Vogue to New York Times too. but just I had collages all over my room. And so I think and and and he and he said that one of his you know, one Hugo Rodriguez: Love this. I love this. Juliana N Pereira: of his clients that that he you know worked on and you know helped and and used this was just was really like he he he did had this flashback of like baseball cards. There was just baseball cards all over. And he's just like my mom would be like, Can you pick up your baseball? You know, like they were all over. And then he ended up. It was this is kind of like the universe as well. He ended up going to like the garage or something of his parents and like finding baseball cards and then quit his job and did like a you know a huge company or whatever based on this, on people exchanging baseball cards and whatever. And so he ended up fulfilling like and having a passionate and meaningful, you know, for what his is just from something that clicked, you know, from from back then. But it's so hard for us to get back there. And so Sometimes we're lucky and you you can have that. But a lot of people who pivot, it's just like, and I can speak to myself and to the research that I've done. It's it's kind of because you're a curious person. Most of it is because you have curiosity and you're not just satisfied with this is it. Like almost everyone I've interviewed, it's like they have ants in their pants, like three years in a job and and you want to go to the next thing and you want to go to the next thing. And and it's because it's something within yourself. that you're trying to identify and Jen Brown: So I think so much of what you said, my gosh, I I want to explore, I want to go back to that eight Juliana N Pereira: Yeah. Jen Brown: to ten and play because now I'm very curious about that. Juliana N Pereira: Yes. Jen Brown: There, but there's something that you said prior to that about the people you've researched and and you Juliana N Pereira: Mm-hmm. Jen Brown: researched over you spoke with over a hundred people in 25 countries for this book, right? Juliana N Pereira: Hun five countries. Yep, yep. Jen Brown: And the importance of a life event being Juliana N Pereira: Mm-hmm. Jen Brown: a trigger. I I'm Also curious though, what about when it's a transition, a pivot that maybe we didn't exactly choose? As as Hugo Juliana N Pereira: Mm-hmm. Jen Brown: and I were talking, we came from government. There's been a lot of change in government. Juliana N Pereira: Yep. Jen Brown: We had you know former colleagues who experienced a pivot. Hugo, what are you what are your thoughts? And and Juliana, I'd love for you to weigh Juliana N Pereira: Mm-hmm. Jen Brown: in when that pivot isn't necessarily our own making. Hugo Rodriguez: I I there's so much, so much here that's got my brain Juliana N Pereira: That it's forced. Hugo Rodriguez: just churning. It's incredible. I'm glad you you talked about the pivot back to yourself because that's a classic coaching thing, right? We are looking as we coach people to get them to reflect on where the energy shifted. You also talked about how you are actually searching for something that brings you energy again. And a lot of our clients and a lot of our colleagues at the State Department and elsewhere in government have Have come to the realization that the work no longer brings them the energy. It's not that bright, shiny, exciting thing that it was. They don't look forward to going to work anymore. As coaches, trying to get them to reflect on what was the last thing that brought you that energy? So you really clearly kind of tied those things together. and the other thing that occurred to me as you were talking, when we define ourselves by the job we are doing now. We're creating an anchor that may slow us down into the future. So as you did your different pivots, you are thinking, well, I don't know anything about marketing. I don't know anything about PR because my current job is something totally different. And you have to let that role go and count on the fact that people, your connections, the people that can see you, they see what you bring. They're not looking for just the thing you used to Juliana N Pereira: Mm-hmm. Hugo Rodriguez: do. They see the light that you can shine on something new and bring that in. So leveraging those contacts to open up the world for you. And, you know, the the thing that I often find when I'm talking to students who are looking for their first jobs and their first career moves, they think they have to have every qualification in that job description. And that's a wish Juliana N Pereira: Mm. Hugo Rodriguez: list that some company dreamed up, they're never going to find a call. qualified candidate that hits every one of those boxes. If you hit three out of five, if you hit six out of ten, they want to talk to you because that might be the six they're looking for, right? And your bravery and sort of Juliana N Pereira: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hugo Rodriguez: leaning into those new roles that you didn't exactly fit, but in fact you had the skills to do very well is such a good, such a good lesson. So thank you for all of that. I I took so many notes and there's so much Juliana N Pereira: Ha Hugo Rodriguez: going on. I love What you said about community and the importance of community. And I'd love to get you to talk more about how that fuels effective organizations and what we as kind of the coaches to leaders, what we can do to help our clients appreciate the importance of

community as they lead their organizations. Juliana N Pereira: Yeah. so okay, a lot to un unravel here. Just so take two steps back. One thing that you discussed is about energy, right? And there's probably a lot of people out there who it is a forced pivot, right? And they're like, and now what do I do? And this is what I'm good at. And now how do I know what I'm good at? And that's where I I ask people to stop and think about a their CV in a different way. Don't think about that I am a marketing director or that I am, you know, somebody who worked at the embassy or that I am, you know, think about it in terms of like what are your transferable skills. And that's like a word that now people are under, but it's much, it's it's much harder to actually take your CV and understand how do I find out what my transferable skills are. And so, and how can I use that language, right? That's the language that you have to start using instead of being like, I'm a director of this, I'm a director. So imagine if you're in technology and you want to like pivot into, I don't know, to entertainment, right? It's a completely different industry. And so you have to use language that people are gonna understand from either side. And so in terms of thinking about your your energy, you know, like, okay, so now I'm forced into this. Okay, great. Okay, so this is where we make lemonade, right? Out of lemons. And this is where it's, you know, it's kind of like you have to come halfway and then the other part will end up coming as well. And I remember that I was at some point with a career redesign coach myself because I was kind of like, I don't even know who I am anymore. Like I've done so many different things that, you know, and some could be forced and some, you know, because I life events that happened, but I've never really stopped. Like I've kind of opportunities came, but I've never really stopped to think what is it that I want to do? And I remember her asking me, well, what brings you energy? And tears started rolling down my eyes because I could not answer that. And I was just like, but what do you mean? I was just like, with my like type A personal, I was like, what do you mean? You know, like as in in terms of like listening to music, like I was, and she's just like, Juliana, what brings you energy? And I couldn't answer the question. And that's another thing that I we also like, another exercise that we have in the book is track. Your energy. And that might sound like ridiculous, but it actually works. It's like so you take, let's say you have you know, I don't know, you can write it down, or if you have like on your phone notes or whatever, and every single day, something that brings you energy. And people are like, Yeah, but I'm so clueless, like I have no idea. And so I always take my example, which is for example, I would take the metro and I always talk to like, I don't know, if I like somebody's like coat or shoes or whatever, I talk to anyone. And so

I'm an extrovert in that sense. And I remembered like getting out of the metro and being like, huh. That made me feel good. And so I would write it down. And so after doing that, after one week, I started to see patterns. and people and people were like, Well, how do you see a pattern from talking to a stranger to sitting down in a park bed? Like I always would walk past this park all the time and like never have a second to stop. And one day, I, you know, when I was tracking all of this, I walked past and I actually smelled like these flowers. And Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah, it's basically. Juliana N Pereira: I was just like, I have walked past this, I don't even know how many years, how many times, and I have never smelt this flower. And I I and I force myself to just stop, right? And and I and I and I realized the energy that just stopping and pausing and taking breathing something in, you know, that's for free, you know, that gives me. And and so, so one part is something can be forced upon you, but how you react to that, right? is what's in your power. And so is give is giving people tools to be able to navigate because when we're like, your passion, your purpose, okay, I don't even know what that is, right? Like a lot of people are like, I have no idea. So being able to give people tools for that is super important. And then the second thing is, you just lost your job, right? You just lost your title, you just lost your identity in many cases. And so there is a mourning Hugo Rodriguez: Green. Juliana N Pereira: that happens with that. And and for me, It it's it's sort of like, you know, okay, you get I got divorced, right, with a one and a half year old. Lots of mourning there. It's like, but I had no time to mourn because I have a one and a half year old and I have to get on with it. And not till years later do you realize like if you don't process that, it comes crashing down. The same thing happens with the career pivots. So if you if you had one identity and you had one community and you had a team of people that depended on you and you met something. Right. And then you shift and you go to something completely different. It's just like, and I love this woman in Argentina that I interviewed, I pivot her like six, seven times. I love the way that she explained it because it was so visual. She's like, it's like a snake. It's like a snake sheds its skin. It doesn't become a new snake, it becomes more of itself. Right. And she's just like, and it's kind of like that. It's like the shedding. comes in in that form of mourning and you may leave some things. You may leave your title. You may leave a lot, but you don't leave the things that you learned there. Those, you know, those are yours. The people, you know, that may still continue to be in your life. And so there is that part of mourning that I think that a lot of us we don't stop to do. And it's kind of like I need to pay bills. I need to go get on with my life. And I don't have the luxury to

sort of mourn. And and and we should. And it's it sometimes it could be a longer process process, sometimes it doesn't have to be. But even if it's like taking a white sheet of paper and writing down, what what did you feel? Like did you feel like you know they they didn't value you? Did you feel like and then because months later you can look back at that and that's important again, where were you and where are you now? And in terms Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah. Juliana N Pereira: of community, I always say that community is one thing is networking. We come from very much a society where it's all like LinkedIn and how many contacts, or you go to a cocktail and you exchange, right, a card. And a few weeks ago, for example, I was because I'm part of like all these different communities, being Portuguese and being Colombian, being American, and I was at this Portuguese fundraising thing, and I was sitting at a at a table and it was like, An ex-prime minister was there, and you know, a famous you know, how do you say athlete was there, an Olympian, and there was you know, I don't know, bunch of different like, you know, CEOs of companies, et cetera. And what I loved was that I got up from the table and I didn't have one single business card from Hugo Rodriguez: Just think about it. Juliana N Pereira: anybody, but I had like five news stories, right? And that what brought us together was we were talking about like what's our favorite beach in Portugal, or where in Madrid do you have. Great Portuguese food? Or where do you, you know, and so I know that if the next day I go to LinkedIn or I try and find these people, I have a story. And that's so much more powerful than having a business card. And community works in the same way. every human being on this planet, I always say, is looking for many things, but I think there are two basic things. One thing is what can I give? You know, what can I offer? that is of like that only I can and what and you know like and and what can I receive, right? But it's about serving community in terms of giving a piece of yourself and receiving something in return. Right. And so when it's transactional, it feels transactional. And we all know that. We've all been there. We've all had the, you know, mm the email or the whatever, and you're like, here's this person again asking me, you know, whatever. And so isn't it much more lovely to be surrounded by, you know, people that, and that's why I say it's just like, that's why I know the acrobat from Cirque des Soleil and the CEO of whatever. It's because, and I remember now with the book, it's even it's it's been something that's been so amazing is that I go back to imagine in 2006. So when I got to Madrid and I was working in fashion and the editor in chief of Vogue, which was like the Anna Winter, right, of Spain that has been there for however many years, So many years later, I saw her, and and she's Wait, Juliana, we have to have a coffee, you know, whatever. We sat, we had coffee, we re reminisced, and she's just like, you know what I really liked about you? You always offered a story, but you never asked. You never like said, I want this cover, I need this article. I need you just offered, and that's it. And now with the book, what's interesting is the girl who was next to in the cubicle across from me at BBDO, it was really funny because. She was on MMs and I was on, you know, Gillette razors and I would give her razors for her boyfriend and she would give me candy, right? And we'd exchange. Jen Brown: Yeah. Juliana N Pereira: And I was just like, we okay. And I like looked her up on LinkedIn and and I wrote her and she automatically replied. She's like, my God, Juliana, how are you? You know, you have to, you know, when you're here in the States, we have you know, meet up. And I was like, I saw that you're living in Boston. I'm going to Boston. And so, We had a conversation. And what's really funny, it happened with my first boss at BBDO and with her is that I get on the phone, they're like, You still have the same voice. I'm like, how's my voice gonna change? You know, it's but it's funny because we have that sort of you don't talk to somebody in 20 years and then you hear. And and and it was just it was like being back in that cubicle, you know, with her. And and it was it's crazy because everything I'm doing in Boston now, which I just reached out to say hi, and she's just like, I'm gonna connect you with this person and with that person and with that person. It's just like my whole launch in Boston is thanks to this one person that all I wanted was to have a coffee with her, you know, when when I was back in, you know, in the States. So I thought I had left New York 20 years ago and I my whole network was gone. And the beautiful thing also about this book has been realizing that my community was still there, no? And that's why it's really important to build that. It's like not to build a LinkedIn. You know, but to build that. Hugo Rodriguez: So let if I could just underline that. So what you're saying is focus on what you can give because you're investing Juliana N Pereira: Mm-hmm. Hugo Rodriguez: and you don't know like if that ever pays off, doesn't matter. But it tends Juliana N Pereira: Mm-hmm. Hugo Rodriguez: to pay off down the road, right? Like, you know, build your community in terms of the things you can do for other people without worrying about what's in it for you. And sure enough, Juliana N Pereira: Yep. Hugo Rodriguez: you know, the the the world turns on that and it's there if you ever need it. It's really great. Juliana N Pereira: Yeah, yeah. And I and I think it really works that way. I mean, for me Hugo Rodriguez: Does? Juliana N Pereira: it's been it's been my case and I know a I know many people and I'm telling you, I interviewed a hundred pivoters and most of the opportunities did not come via LinkedIn. Most of the opportunities and and this we know in terms of statistics come from

another person. Hugo Rodriguez: Yes. I it's been my experience too. Go ahead, Jen. Jen Brown: And LinkedIn, I think is it's a connect it's a connecting platform, right? But it's not the be all end all there. But I'm very curious in all of your research that you've done and and you have a co author as well, right? Juliana N Pereira: Mm-hmm. Co author. Mm-hmm. Luis. Yeah. Jen Brown: So what surprised you in doing this? Yeah. Juliana N Pereira: What's up pro a lot of things, but I would say, I think that the first thing is that I thought I was researching like career transitions. and I really wasn't. I was really was researching what it means to be human during, you know, the moments of change. Right. And so I, you know, and I always say that I think that's what makes pivot quest special, because it's it's about that in between. It's about like that yuckiness or what how we're feeling. it's about, you know, yes, the courage, but maybe a courage, not the way that we think about it, but maybe it's just courage because you asked somebody for coffee, right? And that was a really tough thing to do. Or you wrote somebody in LinkedIn who you thought would never write you back and then they did. and so I always say, even for this book, like I feel like I had to have courage. I I was just like, I There's no way I'm gonna get these endorsements, you know, and who's gonna, you know, what expert is gonna pick up the phone? And and I think a lot of people think that way and they get stuck and in that fear. Lori Santos of the Happiness Lab, like actually answered me, you know, and I actually got an interview out of her. I was just like, I never thought that was gonna happen. or Tal Ben- Shahar, right? Of of Harvard, of like the number one happiness, you know, whatever guru. And and And people were like, How did you do that? I was just like, I just sent them a LinkedIn, right? Like I, you know. Jen Brown: In addition to your own pivots, right? You have been a TEDx speaker, you have written Juliana N Pereira: Mm-hmm. Jen Brown: for Harvard Business Review. So that courage of Juliana N Pereira: Yeah. Jen Brown: doing hard things. Juliana N Pereira: Yeah. And I and that's but I always say this is another tip I give people, is I set not a New Year's resolution. I set every year something like I'm really scared to do and like do it. And so like three years ago that was the book, right? And one year it was the TEDx, and another year it was, you know, writing the article for HBR. And and so I never knew that all of those little steps right of conquering my own fear. It's kind of like when you go on the roller coaster that you really hate. you know, but it's it's like, okay, you're gonna go on a roller coaster and scream your at the top of your lungs at what is that going to do for you? Okay, maybe you get everything out that you need to get out. But actually doing these steps, I never knew that it was building a path towards this. Right. And and I think that's the beautiful part of life is is that the rewards are there. You know, and you know, and and we talk about success in many different ways. But for me, success, you know, after years and pivots and everything is is, you know, is being coherent in what I say, what I do, and what I think is aligned. And I think that's really hard as as human beings for us to do. And I think if we challenge ourselves like that, whether it's once a year, whether it's, you know, being really scared to ask. you know, somebody at work, you know, that you admire to grab lunch one day, or, you know, or somebody who you've been following on LinkedIn and you love the, you know, the newsletter that they write every week or whatever and ask a question. Or they you it's just, it's, it's so, it takes so little, but it takes so much, you know. And again, I'm an extrovert. So and I've and I've had many people on my different teams throughout the years who are introverts and that work in a completely different way. but I think regardless, we're all human. And and I and there's one thing which I've really noticed with this book is everyone wants to share their story, you know. And if you reach out to anybody, you know, asking for help, ninety-nine point nine. I mean, I've had very few people say no, you know. I mean at most I don't think anybody, like even of all the experts, maybe it took like 16 messages, you know, you know, to get through, but I got through. So, and then and that there goes also the other part, which is you can't just give up, right? And so, and this is where also you figure out if it's really your your passion and you have energy for it or not. Hugo Rodriguez: Could could I ask two questions? And the this semester, as I get started planning my classes, the importance of connection, the importance of network really comes up for me. And it's something that young people in college, they don't necessarily have a concept for how you approach it. you've clearly done both with intentionality and and also just in the in the nature of your business a really amazing job of networking. The first question is what advice would you give to a 20-year-old college student about getting out there and building that network? Second question is completely unrelated. Well, I should say it's partially unrelated. How do you get so much done in your day? What does your day look like? How do you stack all of these things that you are doing? I would just love some insight into what a day in Juliana's life looks like. Juliana N Pereira: Yeah, it's it's quite insane. but okay, so starting with the with the first question. what I would tell a person who's in the tw, especially like if they're a university or what they're concerned with getting have getting a job, right? it's Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah. Juliana N Pereira: not how we used to get a job, you know, and it's not for, you know, we want the major company and we want the logo and and whatever. but they're looking to get a job, right? And to be

independent. And and my first thing is that. You your possibilities multiply by you know connecting with people, and connecting with people is not a platform, right? Like I always say have like a live conversation, and so those conversations place you in a room where you are seen in a different way, and you realize that you are kind of you're placed in a room in a different way, and so that's very important at that age. Like they may not realize it, but Being able to for them to understand that, great, so you have a thousand people on LinkedIn. What does that mean? Is it are any of them gonna give you a job tomorrow? so how many coffees have you gone to have? How many network events? You know, that every town has, you know, every city has tons of networking events, every like meetup groups and so many different ways of connecting with people. And I always tell and I tell and I say this to young people as well. It's just like sometimes if you know what gives you energy. So let's say I I like hiking, you know, or whatever, I've gotten great opportunities through actually just doing something I like and going and meeting strangers. Like I remember in Madrid, I live in the city. I said I I I want to be I made that as a goal. I want to be more connected, you know, with nature. And so I have like the weekends, like I don't have my son every I have him every other weekend. I was like, I'm gonna go hiking. And so I got on a bus with like 10 different strangers. you know, a person from China, a person from Hugo Rodriguez: Thank you. Juliana N Pereira: France, a person from here, from there, and through a meetup group. And I've I I've had amazing friends, but also like business opportunities. So the number one thing is it's not I think young people, you know, and and I've learned so much because also being in academia and being surrounded, you know, by them, I I think they view the world obviously in a very different way. And these are very different times. But And and that's one thing that worries me is that not just like the skills, the critical thinking and like all of this that, you know, they're they're not sitting in a boardroom. They're not gonna sit in a boardroom and see what we saw with our bosses, Hugo Rodriguez: This is a bit like. Juliana N Pereira: right? they're not gonna, you know, be by the water cooler or go down to lunch with seven of their friends from Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah, I mean that's what they have. Juliana N Pereira: work. Or and so I think we really have to help them. And I think one of the ways is like pushing them towards understanding that importance of community. And it doesn't have to be necessarily j business. Right. It doesn't because Hugo Rodriguez: Mm-hmm. Juliana N Pereira: sometimes they don't like thinking that way. So I would say that. And in terms of my day, it's it's very how do I say? I have multiple tabs open, like all the time. People look at my computer and they're like, I don't even understand how how you do it. Hugo Rodriguez: Hmm. Juliana N Pereira: but I always say that I grew up within three cultures, right? And and even though I was in New York, I I grew up. My parents like, you are speaking to your grandparents. So I I spoke Spanish to my mom and Portuguese to my dad before I spoke English, which was when I went to school. And and so and I lived those cultures in the sense of every I never went to camp in my life. I always came to Portugal for the summer. And I was in Christmas in Colombia and I ate the food. Like I was the kid. had like the smelly lunch box and that like I would have like duck and fish and like all these things and people like would come over for people I remember I people would come over for like a play date and my pair like their their parents would drive up you know like to the to the the the driveway and they would say mom mom you've got to come in and see what they're eating right and it would be because like and it would be because like the whole fish would be there right the whole fish Hugo Rodriguez: Right. Juliana N Pereira: and so and so it was just like fascinating to them that the whole fish was like there. And so, and so I was that kid, right? And I remember since I was really small, like being at a table where maybe I had relatives from different that didn't speak the same language. And so I would be translating, right? And I would be, you know, within this like whirlwind. And I've always just managed a lot of things at at the same time. I think, and I think I've And I and I and I wouldn't say I'm like super organized. I am very, very organized, but I am I've learned to be less of a perfectionist. Like I was very much it has to be done this way, it has to because I think that flexibility is so important. So important. I would say after curiosity, I would say flexibility because life is gonna turn, you know, give you curveballs, and because things are not gonna pan out as you expected, and because You know, my TED talk that I did, you know, surprised a lot of people. Like I in the sense that like I I remember one of my jobs in New York, and that was one of the one of the triggers of, you know, I my godmother had passed away, my mom's sister unexpectedly. It was Super Bowl Sunday. Imagine I was in advertising. I tried to reach my boss, I couldn't reach my boss, and I ended up going to the funeral 24 hours. Like I was there the I flew the day of the funeral and flew back the next day, and I got fired from my job. Because I didn't have authorization from my boss. So I learned at a very young age, and that was like I was 24, 25, that yeah, life's unfair. And sometimes, you know, these things are gonna happen and you're gonna have to roll with the punches. and that's not always, that's not always easy. And so the more flexible you can be, and I was the kid that my mom was just like, we're gonna have pizza tonight, and I and it didn't happen, and I'd freak out. Right. So you know, it was like it had to happen. And and

so I've come a long way and it's a it's a it's a process, but that adaptability, you know, that everyone's talking about is is really, really fundamental. Jen Brown: I I love it. And I feel like we could talk all day on Juliana N Pereira: Yeah. Jen Brown: this topic and your experiences, your research, just so much that you have brought in. I know Pivot Quest is coming out August 25th, right? Okay. And we will certainly Juliana N Pereira: Yes, yes, yes, very exciting. Jen Brown: include links in the show notes here, but tell us a little bit about how we find it and what's what's on deck for you. Yeah. Juliana N Pereira: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So yes, very exciting time. So I'm headed to New York. I'm gonna be there as of the seventeenth of August and we have different events lined up. I can also send you the links to the events that are open in New York and Boston. and we are the book is available on Barnes and Nobles or Amazon. it's in different places. I can also send you those links so you can include them. And and yeah, we we wanted to not have the typical author events. We are going to going, we're gonna be at Barnes and Nobles on Fifth Avenue. We're gonna be in Barnes and Nobles also in Boston. we're doing an amazing event also at another bookshop, which I love, which is called Hummingbird in Boston. we're doing in New York in Soho at a spot called Bibliotech, which is a wine and bookstore. Hugo Rodriguez: Me. Juliana N Pereira: also an event. and then also, for example, in Bang and Olfsen on their Madison Avenue, Hugo Rodriguez: Mm-hmm. Juliana N Pereira: yeah, we're doing an event there as well. So we really wanted to to sort of have different spaces to be able to cater to, you know, younger audiences, older audiences. I'm even doing an event at which I love it's a shoe brand called Flavelus. They're a Spanish shoe brand. And I heard the the founder talk. I went to this entrepreneur summit and I heard the founder t tell her story and I was like, my God, you we need to do something. And she came from, she studied law, and then she decided I she didn't want to do that. She went to London Business School, ended up working in like SaaS tech company, and then during COVID, was just like started designing like shoes, like took the t a a typical Spanish shoe with like an Italian type shoe and did a mix. And and now is in like 60 something countries, you know, like five years later, Hugo Rodriguez: Well that's why. Juliana N Pereira: has her sh like store in Soho and an amazing, amazing, you know, pivot story. And so I'm doing something with her and for her, like, you know, women community at the Soho shop. So it's it's incredible how you find pivoters everywhere and and at Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah. Juliana N Pereira: anywhere, and that it's such an inspiring story. And I think we have h heard so much negative press. That you know, and we have all these, you know, how many people, you know, 50,000 people fired from here and 30,000 from here, and whole department out here, and that, you know, I think we need to hear some more positive stories. And so I think that's what I hope Pivot Quest brings, that it's not just inspirational, aspirational stories, which there are of these pivoters from all over the world. But it's also it's also like a practical guidebook. So we all apart from the book, we do we created a workbook as well, which people can download. And so for those people who are navigating, who maybe had that force pivot and are navigating or want to deep dive into it and and kind of like need that that push in terms of okay, what exercises? How can I find out my energy? How can I find out, you know, what my transferable skills are? How can I and how can I find out if I'm even ready for a pivot? Because sometimes people think that they're ready and they're not. And sometimes people have been forced to pivot. And they and this one one person that I interviewed, which I really liked from California, she was forced to pivot twice. And and I love her story because it's like the first time she like bootstrapped, she'd sent out thousands of CVs, like did everything that was like forcing things. And the second Jen Brown: Yes. Juliana N Pereira: time, she's like, you know what? I'm gonna like backpack. Hugo Rodriguez: Okay. Juliana N Pereira: through, you know, the Latam and I'm gonna like go back and find my roots because she's Latin American and I'm gonna like teach Spanish, I don't know, you know, to people and English over there and Spanish over here. And and I'm and I'm just gonna figure it out. And and her story is amazing because it's just like in record time, I found something, you know, like and and I found something better. I found something that connects with me more. I found and Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah. Juliana N Pereira: so so that's what I hope that, you know, Pivot Quest brings to people. is that no, what you study does not mean you're gonna do that the rest of your life. First of all, so that young people understand that. And I, you know, the years Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah, yeah. Juliana N Pereira: I was in academia, that was my, you know, that was my my keynote every single time was was to look at me. Like you don't necessarily have to do that for the rest of your life. and second of all, that you're not gonna get it right, maybe the first time or the second time. Here's here's the map and the tools I wish. I would have had, right? And and that's what I'm hoping that that we give back. And and that was the reason, you know, to do this book was sort of, you know, l it's kind of when you have kids and you want to, you know, save them from, you know, and then you're and they have to experience it, right? They have to experience Hugo Rodriguez: Heel goed. Juliana N Pereira: it. But still, your your hand is there just in case. And so this is kind of like our hand is here just in case, and our community is here as well. And I'm hoping to gather more and more pivoters because every

single person I interviewed is like, if anyone is going through it, I'm more than happy to mentor, you know, which is fan amazing to hear as well. Jen Brown: Truly and I'm excited. I've ordered my copy. Cannot wait Juliana N Pereira: Ha ha. Jen Brown: to read this. I have gone through my own and it's still a work in progress, right? And what I'm really taking from all of this is the hope, the positivity, the community that is there as support of going through it, the freedom also. Juliana N Pereira: Yeah. No, it's a there's a huge freedom that comes to it from it. And and also I have to say another thing is that I interviewed this one woman who tip job nine to five, you know, whatever, didn't like what she was doing. And and she always had this hobby, like she loved astrology. And so she would like learn like every month a new card and all this stuff. And it wasn't until like everyone told her she was like insane. They're like, What are you gonna quit your day Hugo Rodriguez: Mm. Juliana N Pereira: job to like, you know, read cards and like do? And she's just like, it wasn't until I went online and I went into a community, you know, of people who do astrology and all this stuff and readings and that I actually saw the possibility of, you know, the financial stability that these people had, that they were passionate about what they were doing. And and so a lot of times we think our friends and our family are the ones who are gonna be like the cheerleaders there and and they're not, right? And that's okay. And and that's another reason for why we need to tap into these communities and know that. If you if you're lucky enough to be like, I'm really passionate about this or I really like this, you can test, right? Like that's part of the framework that that we have is just like there's a part of like discovery and then there's a part of also testing, right? And so you don't have to jump into something you know, right away. You can test things out. And that's why those conversations are really important as well. Because there's different ways of testing. You can enter a community, just start chatting with people, but you can, you know, somebody who you like to follow on LinkedIn and reach out and you don't know if they're gonna say, Yes, let's have a ten minute virtual coffee. Jen Brown: Right, exactly. I I love this, Juliana. Thank you so much for sharing your Hugo Rodriguez: Thank you. Jen Brown: story, the story behind Pivot Quest and the hope that's out there. So we Hugo Rodriguez: Okay. Jen Brown: will certainly include all of these links in the show notes and wish you the best of luck with the launch of Pivot Quest. Juliana N Pereira: thank you. Thank you so much, both of you, for having me and also all the best of luck in your pivots that you're Jen Brown: Yeah. Juliana N Pereira: you're going through. And and yeah, and I hope you also join the the pivot community. And you know, who knows, maybe one day you'll mentor somebody through theirs. So all right, well, thank you. Jen Brown: you never know the possibilities. Hugo Rodriguez: Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you, Juliana.