Ocean Robbins┃Beyond Longevity: Why Love, Purpose & Connection Are the Keys to Living Well ၏ စာသားမှတ်တမ်းအပြည့်အစုံ

00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:27.439 we could just start there. Sure. 69 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:32.879 Thanks for asking. So my dad was an inspiration to 70 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:36.839 a lot of people, including me. His books about food 71 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:41.319 and health sold millions of copies, and some people would 72 00:04:41.370 --> 00:04:44.269 say helped awaken the conscience of a nation. Diet for 73 00:04:44.290 --> 00:04:48.680 a New America came out in 1987, and really got 74 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:51.839 a lot of people thinking about food not just as 75 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:55.180 a health choice but also as a political choice that 76 00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:58.560 what we eat impacts the welfare of animals whether they 77 00:04:58.620 --> 00:05:02.180 live and die in factory farms or graze on pasture 78 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:05.779 or whether we can just subsist on plants whether our 79 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:12.220 food choices are fueling desertification and topsoil erosion and biodiversity 80 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:15.879 loss or whether they are contributing to a more vibrant 81 00:05:15.899 --> 00:05:19.959 healthy future for humanity and so Helping people think about 82 00:05:20.060 --> 00:05:24.120 food in that way was, I think, pretty revolutionary in 83 00:05:24.550 --> 00:05:30.769 its time. And I was deeply inspired by my dad's life, work, 84 00:05:30.870 --> 00:05:34.990 and legacy in many ways and launched Food Revolution Network 85 00:05:35.069 --> 00:05:38.769 with him in 2012 to try to help bring that 86 00:05:38.829 --> 00:05:42.720 message out to a wider audience using what to him 87 00:05:42.740 --> 00:05:45.160 was a fairly novel technology known as the internet. 88 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:46.220 And. 89 00:05:47.550 --> 00:05:49.790 We've had a good deal of success in that. I 90 00:05:49.829 --> 00:05:52.230 worked side by side with him for years, and then 91 00:05:52.569 --> 00:05:57.329 as his health was failing, he had post-polio syndrome. I 92 00:05:57.370 --> 00:06:00.189 was the CEO all along, but I became really the 93 00:06:00.269 --> 00:06:02.610 leader of Food Revolution Network as he kind of moved 94 00:06:02.649 --> 00:06:06.509 more towards the backdrop, and then in 2011, he passed away. 95 00:06:09.069 --> 00:06:12.939 There are so many dimensions to my relationship with my dad, 96 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:18.949 and from, of course... him as my primary role model, 97 00:06:19.470 --> 00:06:21.990 the person along with my mom from whom I learned 98 00:06:22.009 --> 00:06:25.689 how to speak, so many other formative things that our 99 00:06:25.709 --> 00:06:29.350 parents provide to us, but then also his leadership in 100 00:06:29.389 --> 00:06:32.689 the world and his thought leadership and the way that 101 00:06:32.709 --> 00:06:37.769 helped shape my own worldviews. When he passed away, I 102 00:06:38.829 --> 00:06:41.610 felt as if a part of me went with him. 103 00:06:42.410 --> 00:06:45.689 And I actually had a dream a couple days before 104 00:06:45.740 --> 00:06:48.980 he died in which I was standing on the edge 105 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:54.410 of this vast ocean, and there was this pod, a vessel, 106 00:06:55.029 --> 00:07:00.329 taking off out to sea fast. And it's hard to describe. 107 00:07:00.370 --> 00:07:03.269 It looked a little bit like a space pod or something, 108 00:07:03.949 --> 00:07:06.379 and it had eyes in every direction, so it could 109 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:12.060 see in every direction. And it was also glass, so 110 00:07:12.870 --> 00:07:14.870 hard to describe, but I could see into it. And 111 00:07:14.910 --> 00:07:17.589 through it, I could see everything it could see. And 112 00:07:17.610 --> 00:07:22.759 it was taking off into the vast infinite. And the 113 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:26.399 reason I'm sharing that dream is that it felt like 114 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.189 an expression of something that happened, which is that as 115 00:07:30.269 --> 00:07:33.709 my dad made his transition, I felt as if I 116 00:07:33.769 --> 00:07:40.339 had a different consciousness around life, around It was theoretically 117 00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:43.339 true for me before that we are spiritual beings having 118 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:48.079 a human experience. But now I felt so clearly that 119 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:52.670 we are so much more than these bodies. And that 120 00:07:53.269 --> 00:07:57.769 our souls, if you will, participate in an incarnational cycle. 121 00:07:57.829 --> 00:08:01.379 We come to earth to learn certain things, to do 122 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.949 certain things, to perhaps contribute in certain ways. And You know, 123 00:08:06.089 --> 00:08:08.009 one bright morning when our work is over, we're going 124 00:08:08.029 --> 00:08:15.420 to fly away home. And so then from that perspective, 125 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:21.220 the purpose of health isn't so much to preserve eternal 126 00:08:21.300 --> 00:08:25.939 life as to give our gifts, to make our contributions. 127 00:08:25.980 --> 00:08:27.560 You know, there's an old saying, a person with their 128 00:08:27.579 --> 00:08:29.920 health has a thousand dreams. A person without it's only 129 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:33.350 got one dream, which is to get it back. When 130 00:08:33.389 --> 00:08:35.590 we're in chronic pain, when we're in suffering, it can 131 00:08:35.610 --> 00:08:38.269 be very hard to be mobilized or to contribute or 132 00:08:38.309 --> 00:08:41.110 to learn or grow other than whatever that pain is 133 00:08:41.149 --> 00:08:46.129 teaching us. So I see my work in that light. 134 00:08:46.620 --> 00:08:49.240 Not so much I want to help people just be healthy, 135 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:51.659 but I want to help people give their gifts and 136 00:08:51.700 --> 00:08:56.200 live their lives to the fullest. I used to really 137 00:08:56.259 --> 00:08:58.879 believe that there was this gap between what I saw 138

00:08:58.940 --> 00:09:00.360 as the way the earth was and the way it 139 00:09:00.419 --> 00:09:03.419 could be. And I wanted to make earth a little 140 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:07.240 more like heaven, a little more beautiful, a little more loving, 141 00:09:09.110 --> 00:09:13.309 a little more sacred. I still do, of course, but 142 00:09:13.370 --> 00:09:16.870 my perspective on it has changed a bit. See, I 143 00:09:16.970 --> 00:09:20.809 used to have a lot of arguments with God about 144 00:09:20.909 --> 00:09:23.450 how messed up the world was. I really thought I 145 00:09:23.490 --> 00:09:27.200 knew better how it should be, if I'm being honest 146 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:31.759 about it. I don't really think that anymore. And part 147 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.620 of what shifted is, I think maybe this earth is 148 00:09:35.980 --> 00:09:38.759 doing exactly what it was designed to do. It's giving 149 00:09:38.860 --> 00:09:42.480 us a practice space, a classroom, if you will, for 150 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:47.610 learning about love. Not because we're here to make it perfect, 151 00:09:48.389 --> 00:09:50.549 but we're here to grow through the imperfection in a 152 00:09:50.570 --> 00:09:53.269 way that makes us stronger. And when you're working out 153 00:09:53.309 --> 00:09:55.409 with weights, you're not just trying to get the weight 154 00:09:55.429 --> 00:09:58.009 from here to here, you're trying to grow your muscles. 155 00:09:58.950 --> 00:10:01.039 And it may be that there's muscle that we grow 156 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:05.120 as souls through learning about love and integrity and values 157 00:10:06.220 --> 00:10:09.799 that are more critical to the human experience than just 158 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:16.019 the product of changing the world. And at least for me, 159 00:10:16.539 --> 00:10:19.960 that's given me a sense of peace. that maybe all 160 00:10:19.980 --> 00:10:22.440 the things I don't like about the world are actually 161 00:10:23.740 --> 00:10:27.480 as it's intended to be. And so too is my response. 162 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:32.620 My courageous, bold response is also part of what God, Creator, 163 00:10:33.940 --> 00:10:36.779 brought into this world. And therefore I get to be 164 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:41.460 a part of healing and transformation, but not because God erred, 165 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.720 but because God created all of us, including me. 166 00:10:47.139 --> 00:10:50.220 Absolutely. And I think you pointed to such an important 167 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:52.779 spiritual truth there, one that can be confusing for people 168 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:57.289 at times, because from a certain perspective, in any given moment, 169 00:10:57.309 --> 00:10:59.750 the world is as it is. And there's a certain 170 00:10:59.789 --> 00:11:02.629 perfection in that, and certain spiritual traditions point to the 171 00:11:02.700 --> 00:11:05.700 perfection of that. And it's there to teach us and 172 00:11:05.740

--> 00:11:08.100 the challenge that we can learn and grow from. And 173 00:11:08.139 --> 00:11:11.490 at the same time, There are many spiritual ideas and 174 00:11:11.529 --> 00:11:14.190 many great exemplars who've worked to try to change the 175 00:11:14.210 --> 00:11:15.929 world and transform the world and have it be a 176 00:11:15.970 --> 00:11:19.490 better place. And it's both and. One's maybe more of 177 00:11:19.529 --> 00:11:22.110 an ultimate one, a relative perspective, but it's both and. 178 00:11:22.149 --> 00:11:24.950 And you brought them together in such a beautiful way. 179 00:11:25.629 --> 00:11:28.610 And I know your father did as well. And I'm 180 00:11:28.649 --> 00:11:32.240 wondering what, you know, your father, despite being a leader 181 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:37.000 in the healthy living movement and the food movement, suffered from... 182 00:11:38.019 --> 00:11:40.740 post-polio adult syndrome, is that what it's called? 183 00:11:41.419 --> 00:11:45.870 Yeah, polio as a child, and then about half the 184 00:11:45.899 --> 00:11:49.389 time that people have polio, they later develop post-polio syndrome, 185 00:11:49.429 --> 00:11:52.870 and it can show up often 15 to 30 years later. 186 00:11:52.909 --> 00:11:56.649 In his case, it was 60 plus years later, and 187 00:11:58.049 --> 00:12:00.759 it can be all varying levels of severity. In his case, 188 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.840 it came on pretty intensely and hit him really hard, 189 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:08.350 so He lived vibrant and strong and healthy right up 190 00:12:08.370 --> 00:12:10.230 to almost the end and then kind of went off 191 00:12:10.269 --> 00:12:14.269 a cliff. And, you know, I mean, his spirit was 192 00:12:14.350 --> 00:12:17.240 right there for it. There was an amazing equanimity to 193 00:12:17.289 --> 00:12:19.500 him as he went down that path. It was like 194 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:23.480 he wasn't fearing death. He was actually kind of embracing 195 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:26.419 the dissolution of the body. And he read dozens and 196 00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:30.220 dozens of books about death and near-death experiences. And, I mean, 197 00:12:30.259 --> 00:12:33.409 he was just so curious about about what was coming. 198 00:12:33.490 --> 00:12:35.029 And I think our whole family got to kind of 199 00:12:35.049 --> 00:12:36.830 go on that journey with him. He was sharing his 200 00:12:36.850 --> 00:12:40.669 favorite books with us and we had so many conversations. 201 00:12:40.710 --> 00:12:42.389 And I would say in the last two years of 202 00:12:42.429 --> 00:12:44.789 his life, literally every time I saw him, we talked 203 00:12:44.830 --> 00:12:47.870 about death. And so in some ways that prepared me, 204 00:12:48.269 --> 00:12:51.980 you know, and, and it shifted my, my perspective on life. 205 00:12:52.509 --> 00:12:54.299 I guess we all believe we're going to live forever 206 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:57.960 until the day we realize we won't. And for some 207 00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.820 of us, that day doesn't come for quite a while. Um, 208 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:05.190 And for me, I really landed at watching my own 209 00:13:05.230 --> 00:13:09.190 father go through this, that literally every living thing is 210 00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:13.580 going to die. And how we relate to that really 211 00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:14.620 does shape our lives. 212 00:13:16.419 --> 00:13:18.779 Yeah, at some other time, maybe you can share that 213 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:21.279 book list with me. I'm in Death and Dying in 214 00:13:21.299 --> 00:13:23.679 the Hospice, and I've been involved in the hospice for many, 215 00:13:23.740 --> 00:13:25.450 many years, very deeply. So I've read a lot of 216 00:13:25.490 --> 00:13:28.029 that literature. I'd be curious as to what your dad 217 00:13:28.070 --> 00:13:33.730 was reading. So up until that time, I wonder what 218 00:13:33.789 --> 00:13:36.820 your dad taught you or what you learned from your dad, 219 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:42.220 what we could learn from your dad about making the 220 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.779 best of our life, whatever time we have, right? Especially 221 00:13:45.860 --> 00:13:49.570 the second half, the later stages of life, which he 222 00:13:49.629 --> 00:13:52.889 contributed on such a high level. And then he got 223 00:13:52.909 --> 00:13:56.230 to that point where he got hit with the post-polio 224 00:13:57.740 --> 00:14:00.159 And then it sounds like, you know, there was a 225 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:03.299 lot he taught us about how to face that as well. 226 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:08.480 So I wonder what you learned from your dad and 227 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:12.669 what we can learn about healthy aging, about contributing throughout 228 00:14:12.710 --> 00:14:15.889 our lifespan, especially later stages of our lifespan, and then 229 00:14:15.929 --> 00:14:17.929 dealing with challenges like he had to deal with. 230 00:14:19.250 --> 00:14:21.549 I think so much comes back to the serenity prayer. 231 00:14:23.100 --> 00:14:25.620 Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't change, 232 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:27.740 the courage to change the things I can and the 233 00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:31.360 wisdom to know the difference. And honestly, for a lot 234 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:33.570 of his life, my dad's version was kind of like 235 00:14:33.610 --> 00:14:35.809 grant me the courage to change the things I can't accept. 236 00:14:36.730 --> 00:14:40.389 I mean, he really wanted to be a fighter and 237 00:14:40.629 --> 00:14:43.789 push back against status quos. And that was beautiful and 238 00:14:43.830 --> 00:14:46.009 bold and courageous and at times brought him a lot 239 00:14:46.049 --> 00:14:50.509 of suffering because his heart ached with things that were 240 00:14:50.570 --> 00:14:53.740 utterly beyond his ability to control. you know, things in 241 00:14:53.779 --> 00:14:58.519 the world that just

broke his heart. And he wanted 242 00:14:58.539 --> 00:15:01.879 to do what he could. But he cared about a 243 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:05.350 lot of things he couldn't directly impact. And I both 244 00:15:05.419 --> 00:15:07.769 admire that about him. And I also saw how much 245 00:15:07.809 --> 00:15:13.309 he suffered with it. And so personally, I'm interested most 246 00:15:13.370 --> 00:15:18.490 of all in, you know, in finding the wisdom and 247 00:15:18.970 --> 00:15:21.330 to know the difference so that I make a difference 248 00:15:21.370 --> 00:15:23.370 with what I can and don't sweat the small stuff 249 00:15:24.149 --> 00:15:26.509 and don't focus too much on the things that, that 250 00:15:26.549 --> 00:15:28.389 I can't affect. I mean, of course I care as 251 00:15:28.429 --> 00:15:31.409 a human about things that I don't directly affect because 252 00:15:31.429 --> 00:15:34.970 I'm part of our species, right? And so I take 253 00:15:34.990 --> 00:15:38.169 an interest in what happens, but, but I want to 254 00:15:38.190 --> 00:15:40.470 put most of my attention on things that are in 255 00:15:40.509 --> 00:15:42.909 my file of control, you know, things that I get 256 00:15:42.990 --> 00:15:46.370 a say in. You know, if I'm in a, learn 257 00:15:46.389 --> 00:15:49.029 about a company that's doing some bad thing I don't like, 258 00:15:49.490 --> 00:15:52.629 I'd like to stop buying from that company and then 259 00:15:52.700 --> 00:15:55.460 move my attention elsewhere, you know, but I'm not going 260 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:58.620 to like, just, I'd rather not live with guilt. I'd 261 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:03.379 rather take action. Um, so my dad was always a 262 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:05.340 man of action and he did a lot of bold 263 00:16:05.379 --> 00:16:10.460 and courageous things. Um, I respect that profoundly. And I 264 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:13.480 think in his later life, he was learning about serenity too, 265 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:18.669 about acceptance and, You know, we had this moment where 266 00:16:19.690 --> 00:16:21.490 he and I were having a pretty deep sharing. He 267 00:16:21.529 --> 00:16:24.490 was in a lot of pain. He said, oh, my 268 00:16:24.549 --> 00:16:28.049 legs are dying. And I'm dying with them. This was 269 00:16:28.090 --> 00:16:30.870 about two years before he actually died. And it was 270 00:16:30.929 --> 00:16:33.870 our first moment of really facing this. My first moment 271 00:16:33.909 --> 00:16:36.289 of really facing it in a deep way. So we 272 00:16:36.330 --> 00:16:39.129 were in tears together. And I was just taking in 273 00:16:39.190 --> 00:16:41.970 the reality of that. I knew he wasn't bluffing here. 274 00:16:43.110 --> 00:16:44.830 And then I just. 275 00:16:46.309 --> 00:16:48.830 Had this like epiphany come over me and I said 276 00:16:49.929 --> 00:16:52.750 there's a dimension of consciousness from which it's all okay 277 00:16:53.330 --> 00:16:56.710 the legs the pain the dying all the pain all 278 00:16:56.750 --> 00:17:00.860 the dying everywhere and he just kind of looked at 279 00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:02.860 me and almost smirked a little and he said I'm 280 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:08.339 glad you can see that and and then you know 281 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:10.359 what he was really saying was like he couldn't access 282 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:14.740 that dimension of consciousness but he genuinely did appreciate that 283 00:17:14.779 --> 00:17:19.279 I could And then I said, maybe you've suffered so 284 00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:25.740 I could have peace. Maybe you have built a trail 285 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:28.690 through brambles with your bare hands and gotten scratched up 286 00:17:28.750 --> 00:17:31.279 along the way. And then I come along and pave it. 287 00:17:32.849 --> 00:17:37.210 You know, there's ways that my life has had some 288 00:17:37.349 --> 00:17:41.319 ease or some opportunity because I built on, on his 289 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:45.559 shoulders in a sense, right? And and he made a 290 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:47.940 lot of mistakes along the way, and he suffered a lot, 291 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:51.200 and he at times caused real harm to people he loved, 292 00:17:51.259 --> 00:17:54.849 including me. So I don't want to paint him as 293 00:17:55.069 --> 00:18:01.710 some kind of a lifelong saint, because he wasn't. And 294 00:18:02.430 --> 00:18:06.410 I also have empathy and compassion for what he struggled with, 295 00:18:07.509 --> 00:18:12.220 and what a trailblazer he was for so many people, 296 00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:18.670 including me. So I think that in some ways my 297 00:18:18.730 --> 00:18:23.150 capacity for acceptance of the world the way it is 298 00:18:23.769 --> 00:18:28.940 grows out of a certain innate peace that's partly a 299 00:18:28.980 --> 00:18:32.039 reflection of the ways that I did feel loved and 300 00:18:32.140 --> 00:18:32.970 cherished growing up. 301 00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:40.579 Yeah, I think trailblazers like your dad often pay a 302 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:44.569 pretty steep cost for being in that stage of of 303 00:18:44.910 --> 00:18:52.349 whatever the transformation is, right? The early stages. Yeah. And 304 00:18:53.890 --> 00:18:56.519 I think you shared that after your dad died, you 305 00:18:56.539 --> 00:18:59.680 kind of wondered about this world you had co-created with 306 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:03.440 him and Food Revolution Network and where, you know, whether 307 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:07.200 that was coming to an end or, and so, you know, I, 308 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:11.150 you're roughly probably in the second half of your life 309 00:19:11.210 --> 00:19:11.829 at this point. 310 00:19:12.430 --> 00:19:16.170 I wonder, you know, yeah, maybe at least 30% of 311 00:19:16.190 --> 00:19:19.910 the way through it, right? Yeah. I'm 52. 312 00:19:19.890 --> 00:19:24.559 Yeah, who knows, you know. I have no idea how 313 00:19:24.599 -->

00:19:25.779 old you are. You're in your 40s. I'm 52, yeah. 314 00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:27.140 Oh, you're 52, yeah. Well, yeah, maybe 30%. 315 00:19:27.140 --> 00:19:29.180 We'll see. My friend Dave Asprey talks of living to 180. 316 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:30.339 That's pretty out there. 317 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:32.000 A lot of people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s 318 00:19:32.019 --> 00:19:42.619 talk that way. I've noticed. 319 00:19:45.930 --> 00:19:49.930 So anyway, I'm wondering, you know, I know you have 320 00:19:50.140 --> 00:19:54.339 decided to continue, thank goodness, with this movement, Food Revolution Network, 321 00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:58.000 and your contribution to life. But I'm curious as to how, 322 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:02.190 you know, both the process of grief you've been through 323 00:20:02.250 --> 00:20:05.549 and losing your dad and that's your relationship to healthy 324 00:20:05.609 --> 00:20:08.190 living and grief and resilience and all that, how this 325 00:20:08.230 --> 00:20:12.390 has been for you, as well as maybe how that's 326 00:20:12.450 --> 00:20:14.349 informing you as to what you want to do with 327 00:20:14.369 --> 00:20:15.150 the rest of your life. 328 00:20:16.569 --> 00:20:19.819 After my dad died, I took a solid month off, 329 00:20:19.930 --> 00:20:25.960 about five weeks. And honestly, I'd been working for 13 years, 330 00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:30.279 a good 60 hours a week most weeks. And I 331 00:20:30.339 --> 00:20:34.720 loved my work. But I couldn't conceive of... I mean, 332 00:20:34.940 --> 00:20:37.450 if I ever took a full week off, that was revolutionary. 333 00:20:37.930 --> 00:20:40.950 But five weeks, especially at a moment when there was 334 00:20:40.970 --> 00:20:44.650 so much going on in our community, was grieving and processing, 335 00:20:46.329 --> 00:20:48.880 would have seemed unthinkable. But I absolutely knew that I 336 00:20:48.940 --> 00:20:51.720 needed to take the time from my own spiritual reflection 337 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:54.420 to honor my dad, to be with my family, all 338 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:59.710 the things. And when I came back, what was remarkable was... 339 00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:04.660 that our organization had survived and thrived while I was gone. 340 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:08.200 Systems had been built while I was gone that enabled 341 00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:11.039 the company to continue without depending on me day to 342 00:21:11.059 --> 00:21:13.960 day in quite the same ways. And so I got 343 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.180 to come back in a different way. But I also 344 00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:20.900 let go of a lot. Not only my dad, but 345 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:23.819 I think that there's some ways that I started Food 346 00:21:23.859 --> 00:21:28.000 Revolution Network to make him proud, to support him, to 347 00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:31.769 carry on his legacy, He had done something beautiful and 348 00:21:31.789 --> 00:21:34.529 I wanted it to expand and grow in the world. 349 00:21:36.150 --> 00:21:40.410 So now that he wasn't there anymore, I had to ask, 350 00:21:40.509 --> 00:21:45.589 is this meant to continue? And it occurred at a 351 00:21:45.650 --> 00:21:50.269 time when a lot of economic forces were challenging for 352 00:21:50.349 --> 00:21:54.809 online business and our organization was not immune and we 353 00:21:54.849 --> 00:21:59.859 were having, in 2025, significant drops in revenues and sales 354 00:21:59.900 --> 00:22:02.500 of all of our different products. And it was a 355 00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:05.619 clicks on emails were down and it was a tough moment. 356 00:22:06.049 --> 00:22:10.150 And so I sat with that and really had to ask, like, 357 00:22:10.710 --> 00:22:14.349 can we, should we continue? Like, just because something's been 358 00:22:14.369 --> 00:22:19.950 beautiful doesn't mean it should go on forever. And one 359 00:22:19.970 --> 00:22:23.109 day I was pondering this and I heard my dad's 360 00:22:23.170 --> 00:22:28.970 voice say, own it first. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. 361 00:22:29.009 --> 00:22:32.890 I've never actually owned this company on my own. We 362 00:22:32.950 --> 00:22:36.460 owned it together. So if I own it, what does 363 00:22:36.500 --> 00:22:39.819 that mean? And suddenly I realized I've got a million 364 00:22:39.859 --> 00:22:45.539 people I can write to every other day. There's a 365 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.390 media engine here. I can share anything that's in my 366 00:22:48.450 --> 00:22:51.990 heart and have an enormous platform of people that trust 367 00:22:52.029 --> 00:22:55.930 me and respect me. Why would I walk away from that? 368 00:22:56.049 --> 00:22:59.680 Just because I couldn't make the metrics work? Like, figure 369 00:22:59.740 --> 00:23:03.839 it out. So, you know, so then I like have 370 00:23:03.859 --> 00:23:06.289 been on this journey of discovering how to make our 371 00:23:06.329 --> 00:23:09.210 organization sustainable. And we've come a long way since then. 372 00:23:10.390 --> 00:23:13.470 Had to make some tough choices along the way. But 373 00:23:13.829 --> 00:23:18.410 it's been a beautiful, rich journey. And I'm still exploring 374 00:23:18.450 --> 00:23:20.690 how does the messaging change? You know, one thing I 375 00:23:21.490 --> 00:23:26.309 will say, my dad was fairly cautious about being vulnerable 376 00:23:26.549 --> 00:23:29.289 or truthful even fully about some of his health challenges 377 00:23:29.390 --> 00:23:32.269 he didn't he wanted to be a icon he wanted 378 00:23:32.289 --> 00:23:34.109 to be a hero to people he didn't want them 379 00:23:34.150 --> 00:23:37.549 to see that what he where he struggled and I 380 00:23:37.589 --> 00:23:39.509 kind of want to play that differently I think that 381 00:23:39.569 --> 00:23:42.150 in this world people are crying out for authenticity and 382 00:23:42.210 --> 00:23:47.210 humanity more than for you know impervious heroes

and so 383 00:23:47.890 --> 00:23:52.019 you know I want to be more vulnerable and more 384 00:23:52.390 --> 00:23:56.000 quirky you know I've got my own sense of humor. 385 00:23:56.059 --> 00:23:58.279 I'm just kind of leaning into that. I'm willing to 386 00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:04.539 cry on videos. I want to challenge myself to be 387 00:24:04.619 --> 00:24:06.829 more real and more human. I think in a world 388 00:24:06.869 --> 00:24:14.049 of AI and big tech, humanity, authenticity, vulnerability are differentiators, 389 00:24:14.150 --> 00:24:17.490 even in the marketplace. But whether or not it sells anything, 390 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:21.960 I think we all are craving for something more real. 391 00:24:21.980 --> 00:24:26.630 And so That's what I'm noticing I want to bring. 392 00:24:28.329 --> 00:24:33.170 In terms of messaging, my dad was super passionate about 393 00:24:33.490 --> 00:24:38.049 making a more plant-based world. I love that. I also 394 00:24:38.089 --> 00:24:40.559 want to make sure that we're deeply rooted in scientific 395 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:44.359 integrity in the messages that we bring out and the 396 00:24:44.420 --> 00:24:49.819 facts that we share. If something is inconvenient to our 397 00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:53.990 core like outcomes, then maybe the outcomes need to evolve, 398 00:24:54.170 --> 00:24:59.109 or maybe we just need to share some nuance. So 399 00:25:00.259 --> 00:25:02.819 those are all things that are alive in me as 400 00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:07.339 I'm exploring how to move Food Revolution 2.0, if you will, 401 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:12.819 forward to the next era. And I know none of 402 00:25:12.859 --> 00:25:16.980 this would have been possible without John Robbins. But also 403 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.640 none of it's possible without not only Ocean Robbins, but 404 00:25:19.700 --> 00:25:23.319 our team, and the whole global community that makes it possible. 405 00:25:23.420 --> 00:25:25.619 So I'm in service to that really at this point. 406 00:25:29.289 --> 00:25:33.789 What if transformation isn't just about thinking differently, but feeling differently? 407 00:25:34.309 --> 00:25:37.190 Science shows us that true change happens when we align 408 00:25:37.250 --> 00:25:40.769 not just our minds, but also the neural networks in 409 00:25:40.829 --> 00:25:44.670 our hearts and guts. This heart-mind connection is the key 410 00:25:44.710 --> 00:25:48.779 to deeper healing, resilience, and expanded awareness. That's why I 411 00:25:48.859 --> 00:25:52.880 created the HeartMind All Access Membership and Community, a space 412 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:57.160 designed to help you rewire your nervous system, cultivate heart intelligence, 413 00:25:57.539 --> 00:26:01.559 and live with greater clarity and purpose. With over 1,000 414 00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:06.539 hours of transformational teachings specifically curated to meet your needs, 415 00:26:07.059 --> 00:26:13.420 you'll learn from world-renowned meditation teachers, neuroscientists, and experts in neuroplasticity, 416 00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:17.460 all sharing powerful tools to help you shift your mindset, 417 00:26:17.940 --> 00:26:22.450 and heart set, regulate your emotions, and unlock your full potential. 418 00:26:23.329 --> 00:26:26.789 You'll also gain unlimited access to every summit and course 419 00:26:26.829 --> 00:26:32.349 we've ever produced, a treasure trove of wisdom worth over $ 10, 000 420 00:26:30.750 --> 00:26:35.160 and growing, plus live gatherings and an inspiring global community 421 00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:38.440 to support your journey. If you're ready to step into 422 00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:41.900 a more heart-centered, connected, and conscious life, I invite you 423 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:44.640 to join us. Click the link to learn more and 424 00:26:44.700 --> 00:26:54.210 start your journey today. Wow. So kind of in that light, uh, Ocean, you've, 425 00:26:54.349 --> 00:26:57.940 you've spent decades, um, bringing people together around a vision 426 00:26:58.599 --> 00:27:05.000 for a healthier, more sustainable future. And today we're, we're, 427 00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:07.839 we're focused a lot on grieving and the process of 428 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:12.049 grief and its relationship to resilience and health and healthy living. 429 00:27:12.970 --> 00:27:15.230 So I think for a lot of people these days, 430 00:27:15.589 --> 00:27:19.970 their sense of that future is kind of, um, it 431 00:27:19.990 --> 00:27:23.930 feels like it's often shifting under our feet. You know, 432 00:27:25.589 --> 00:27:29.190 even as a young man, I was tuned into the environment, 433 00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:33.849 concerned about the environment, but I never imagined climate change 434 00:27:33.890 --> 00:27:38.400 being an existential risk in my lifetime. You know, I 435 00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:44.259 never envisioned AI as an existential risk in our lifetime, right? 436 00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:47.710 These kind of things. The level of I mean, there's 437 00:27:47.730 --> 00:27:49.509 a lot of wonderful things happening in the world. The 438 00:27:49.549 --> 00:27:53.109 news gives us a very skewed vision of what's happening 439 00:27:53.130 --> 00:27:54.750 in the world. So there's a lot of amazing things 440 00:27:54.789 --> 00:27:56.710 happening in the world, but there are real challenges and 441 00:27:56.750 --> 00:27:59.789 there's a lot of divisiveness and a lot of breakdown 442 00:27:59.829 --> 00:28:03.390 in our political systems and our culture. And so, you know, 443 00:28:03.430 --> 00:28:06.539 that can bring up a sense of grieving for people, 444 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:08.539 a sense of, you know, I thought I knew who 445 00:28:08.619 --> 00:28:10.160 I was in the world I live in and what 446 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:12.400 the future might look like for myself and my kids. 447 00:28:12.460 --> 00:28:16.609 And now it all seems so uncertain. So they're,

You know, 448 00:28:16.769 --> 00:28:20.170 we experience grief around not only losing our loved ones, 449 00:28:20.250 --> 00:28:23.950 but changes in our own identity, changes in our world, 450 00:28:24.430 --> 00:28:27.869 you know, any kind of really change and loss. So 451 00:28:28.349 --> 00:28:34.339 I'm wondering, you know, what that brings up for you 452 00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:39.970 and how we can become more resilient to be able 453 00:28:40.009 --> 00:28:44.490 to deal with that uncertain future and embrace the natural grieving, 454 00:28:44.529 --> 00:28:47.720 not some kind of bypassing, but be able to embrace that, 455 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:51.220 the pain and grieving while at the same time, you know, 456 00:28:51.299 --> 00:28:54.680 sort of accepting the challenge like you have in some 457 00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:57.099 ways and find a way to move forward. 458 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:06.730 It's my perspective that in some ways the hippies were right. 459 00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:14.210 It's all about love. That really, at a really basic level, 460 00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:20.920 I think the human purpose on this earth has a 461 00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:23.259 lot to do with how we give and receive love. 462 00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:28.099 And how does love show up through our actions? And 463 00:29:28.140 --> 00:29:34.259 sometimes through our witness. I think that even just the 464 00:29:34.460 --> 00:29:38.069 act of bearing witness to pain with an open heart, 465 00:29:38.250 --> 00:29:42.809 with love, maybe with some prayers, I think it matters. 466 00:29:44.529 --> 00:29:47.730 And sometimes we will be mobilized to take action and 467 00:29:48.190 --> 00:29:52.759 do things. There's a lot of suffering in our world 468 00:29:53.380 --> 00:29:55.700 and in our own communities. Many of us have loved 469 00:29:55.819 --> 00:29:59.019 ones who are in pain chronically or dying right now. 470 00:30:01.259 --> 00:30:05.200 Do we turn away? Or do we turn towards with 471 00:30:05.259 --> 00:30:08.900 our hearts open? And there's a difference between turning towards 472 00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:14.990 in a way that's sort of depressing and mesmerized, you know, 473 00:30:15.049 --> 00:30:17.130 people who just read bad news all day and talk 474 00:30:17.170 --> 00:30:20.769 about how terrible the world is. I don't think that's 475 00:30:20.809 --> 00:30:25.609 an open heart. I think that's cynicism. An open heart 476 00:30:25.670 --> 00:30:31.599 is quite different from a cynical heart. Um, A cynical 477 00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:37.220 heart looks for confirmation that the world sucks and then 478 00:30:37.660 --> 00:30:42.839 uses that confirmation to suffer and drag others down more 479 00:30:43.420 --> 00:30:48.700 and be proven right. An open heart meets the world 480 00:30:48.940 --> 00:30:52.839 and is willing to grieve. It's willing to take action, 481 00:30:54.859 --> 00:31:00.859 is willing to bear witness and keeps on loving. So it, 482 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:03.720 It's really a simple question. I mean, if you're reading 483 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:07.809 a news article, you're watching a YouTube video, you're talking 484 00:31:07.849 --> 00:31:11.730 to a friend about politics, check in with your heart. 485 00:31:13.410 --> 00:31:16.910 Is it open or closed? Is it getting more open 486 00:31:16.950 --> 00:31:20.349 or closed through the interaction? And do you have the 487 00:31:20.410 --> 00:31:26.529 capacity to expand your resilience to have a heart open 488 00:31:27.609 --> 00:31:33.759 regardless of what you face? And this shows up globally, 489 00:31:33.779 --> 00:31:37.039 but it's also super personal. If you have a child, 490 00:31:37.059 --> 00:31:43.509 a spouse, a friend who's in pain, do you turn away? 491 00:31:43.569 --> 00:31:45.269 Do you ignore them? Do you get on with your 492 00:31:45.289 --> 00:31:49.170 busy day? Do you reach out and turn towards them? 493 00:31:51.430 --> 00:31:53.309 Do you go on with your life but think about 494 00:31:53.349 --> 00:31:56.369 them with genuine love? We talk about thoughts and prayers 495 00:31:56.430 --> 00:32:00.220 all the time, but do we really mean it? And 496 00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:05.359 I think that there's a world of difference between hallmark 497 00:32:05.420 --> 00:32:09.599 hard thoughts and prayers and the real thing. Like you 498 00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:14.539 actually sit in meditation. You actually visualize your loved one well. 499 00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:19.460 You actually let their tears flow as you feel their suffering. Like, 500 00:32:19.539 --> 00:32:22.579 are we willing to have that sensation? You know, I've 501 00:32:22.619 --> 00:32:26.099 spent time working with young leaders all over the world. 502 00:32:26.579 --> 00:32:29.269 In my previous era, I ran a nonprofit called I 503 00:32:29.329 --> 00:32:33.309 worked with young people living in war zones, including in Israel, 504 00:32:33.390 --> 00:32:37.650 who were having to, you know, a young woman who 505 00:32:37.690 --> 00:32:40.950 had lost family members to terrorist violence, talking about the 506 00:32:40.990 --> 00:32:43.849 pain and the fear she was living in. A Palestinian 507 00:32:43.890 --> 00:32:47.759 young woman in the West Bank who had lost, whose 508 00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:51.099 house had been hit by bombs and flying trap nails 509 00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:53.559 seven times. Her boyfriend was killed in the violence and 510 00:32:54.099 --> 00:32:56.059 she'd been shot. She was a journalist. She'd been shot 511 00:32:56.099 --> 00:32:58.299 with a microphone in hand while trying to cover tanks 512 00:32:58.339 --> 00:33:03.460 in the streets. they became best friends, by the way, 513 00:33:04.930 --> 00:33:07.569 because they both knew about pain, fear, and loss, and 514 00:33:07.589 --> 00:33:09.750 they shared their stories, and they knew what it was 515 00:33:09.789 --> 00:33:13.029 like to live in terror and violence,

and they both 516 00:33:13.089 --> 00:33:17.970 wanted something better for their kids. And seeing their friendship 517 00:33:18.049 --> 00:33:20.589 and seeing their stories was really moving for me, and 518 00:33:20.609 --> 00:33:25.799 I also felt so impotent, like I couldn't solve the problems. 519 00:33:26.579 --> 00:33:28.440 So part of me really wanted to turn away and 520 00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:32.839 think it can't be that bad. They're over-dramatizing. But then 521 00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:36.019 I realized, like, it was a real question. Was my 522 00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:38.049 heart going to get big enough to hold this or 523 00:33:38.109 --> 00:33:41.710 smaller and shrink away? And I decided I just had 524 00:33:41.730 --> 00:33:44.710 to let it get bigger. Let it hold it even 525 00:33:44.730 --> 00:33:47.390 though I couldn't fix it. And I think we get 526 00:33:47.430 --> 00:33:50.190 those choices all the time. And, you know, that saying 527 00:33:50.250 --> 00:33:52.920 from the prophet, the deeper that sorrow is carved into 528 00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.660 the canyon of your heart, the more joy it can contain. 529 00:33:56.809 --> 00:33:59.569 I think it's true. So are we willing to let 530 00:33:59.650 --> 00:34:02.970 the canyon of our heart get carved deeper, even when 531 00:34:03.029 --> 00:34:03.470 it hurts? 532 00:34:07.490 --> 00:34:09.889 I would imagine you're very, as you were speaking, Joanna 533 00:34:10.309 --> 00:34:12.880 Macy came to mind. I would imagine you're very familiar 534 00:34:12.889 --> 00:34:13.760 with her work. 535 00:34:14.610 --> 00:34:17.400 She officiated at our wedding when my wife and I 536 00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:17.940 were married. 537 00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:21.860 Oh, I didn't realize that connection. That's beautiful. Yeah, so 538 00:34:21.980 --> 00:34:24.480 she focused a lot on the existential risk of nuclear 539 00:34:24.500 --> 00:34:27.719 war and nuclear waste, even from nuclear energy, from peaceful 540 00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:29.679 nuclear energy. We still have the issue of all this 541 00:34:29.739 --> 00:34:36.010 nuclear waste all over the place. And a lot of 542 00:34:36.050 --> 00:34:39.929 her work was seeing how transformation was really on the 543 00:34:39.989 --> 00:34:43.360 other side of both bearing witness and grieving. And she 544 00:34:43.380 --> 00:34:46.440 had that process, the counsel of all beings. And so 545 00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:48.480 she was really very much that we have to be 546 00:34:48.519 --> 00:34:50.900 willing to bear witness to things as they are, be 547 00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:54.099 willing to go through the grief that any insight and 548 00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:56.880 wisdom about where we need to go, a real transformation 549 00:34:56.920 --> 00:34:59.199 is going to arise on the other side of that, 550 00:34:59.260 --> 00:35:02.159 not by avoiding it. So, yeah, that really came up 551 00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:06.760 as I was listening to you. So

what you're describing... disability, 552 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:10.059 you know, things get so challenging, it's not hard to 553 00:35:10.099 --> 00:35:12.179 get kind of pushed back on our heels, whether it's 554 00:35:12.219 --> 00:35:14.440 what's happening in the world or in our personal lives, 555 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:18.980 or the intersection between all that, whatever histories of trauma 556 00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:21.659 we may each have. It's easy to kind of get 557 00:35:21.739 --> 00:35:26.179 pushed back on our heels and just go into coping mode, right? And, 558 00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:29.429 you know, that's completely understandable. We want to have a 559 00:35:29.449 --> 00:35:32.170 lot of compassion for ourselves and others when that's what's happening. 560 00:35:32.210 --> 00:35:35.369 But somehow we need to find our way back onto 561 00:35:35.409 --> 00:35:38.059 the balls of our feet to engage life, to move forward. 562 00:35:39.500 --> 00:35:45.679 And what you're describing actually requires a lot of different things, 563 00:35:45.739 --> 00:35:48.150 but on a physical level, it requires a certain level 564 00:35:48.190 --> 00:35:50.969 of vitality and resilience and energy to be able to 565 00:35:51.010 --> 00:35:53.690 do that. So I wonder if you could connect that 566 00:35:54.659 --> 00:35:58.199 you know, what Food Revolution Network's all about, about healthy 567 00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:02.840 living and, you know, healthy diet and food and healthy 568 00:36:03.659 --> 00:36:07.099 life practices and our ability to face an ever more 569 00:36:07.139 --> 00:36:09.420 challenging world with our hearts open. 570 00:36:11.300 --> 00:36:14.199 Absolutely. I mean, it all comes back to, like, how 571 00:36:14.219 --> 00:36:17.760 do you cultivate resilience? A lot of it is very biological. 572 00:36:17.780 --> 00:36:23.500 I mean, if you're in pain... It's a lot harder 573 00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:26.780 to be resilient. If you're in chronic inflammation, it's hard 574 00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:32.960 to immobilize an immune response to a new attack. And 575 00:36:33.099 --> 00:36:35.119 a lot of us are in pain. So I don't 576 00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:37.539 mean to say if you're in pain or suffering that 577 00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:41.309 you're doomed. I want to say, like, have so much 578 00:36:41.349 --> 00:36:44.230 compassion for yourself. Realize that it's a lot harder with 579 00:36:44.269 --> 00:36:48.929 that suffering. And then do what you can to make 580 00:36:48.969 --> 00:36:53.619 less of it. Because there's these positive feedback loops that 581 00:36:53.659 --> 00:36:58.860 can unfold. You know, when you eat better, you're likely 582 00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:02.400 to lose excess weight, which makes it easier to exercise 583 00:37:02.420 --> 00:37:06.789 because you've got less weight to carry, which then has 584 00:37:06.849 --> 00:37:12.550 benefits to your sleep, which in turn will impact how 585 00:37:12.590 --> 00:37:17.070 you feel and how smart you are and how resourceful 586 00:37:17.090 --> 00:37:20.730 you are in responding to challenges and probably, enable you 587 00:37:20.769 --> 00:37:24.489 to create healthier relationships, which will create more love in 588 00:37:24.530 --> 00:37:28.030 your life, which in turn will help you feel better 589 00:37:28.050 --> 00:37:29.909 about yourself, which in turn will help you eat better. 590 00:37:30.489 --> 00:37:34.909 So all of these things intersect. And so the pillars 591 00:37:34.949 --> 00:37:37.570 of lifestyle medicine are eat better, stress less, love more, 592 00:37:37.630 --> 00:37:41.449 and move more. And all of these things are critical. 593 00:37:42.530 --> 00:37:46.300 And they all interweave. And so I'm really interested in 594 00:37:46.340 --> 00:37:51.500 helping people get positive momentum that creates positive feedback loops, 595 00:37:52.030 --> 00:37:54.840 that grow and build over time. We've got all these 596 00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:58.250 fad diets, and a lot of times I think they 597 00:37:58.289 --> 00:38:02.670 fail partly because they're based in reactivity and fear, whereas 598 00:38:02.730 --> 00:38:07.389 I think a more sustainable fuel source is love. If 599 00:38:07.489 --> 00:38:11.849 you are moving from love for yourself, your cells are 600 00:38:11.869 --> 00:38:14.969 going to get that, and you're far more likely to 601 00:38:15.010 --> 00:38:18.730 sustain something You know, pain pushes and vision pulls, so 602 00:38:18.750 --> 00:38:21.309 a lot of people are motivated to make big changes 603 00:38:21.349 --> 00:38:24.699 in their diet or lifestyle by suffering their pain. But 604 00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:28.719 I've seen so many people who successfully reversed diabetes, reversed 605 00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.639 heart disease, got off a bunch of drugs, lost a 606 00:38:31.659 --> 00:38:36.880 bunch of weight with diet, and then, after a little while, 607 00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:39.289 they slipped right back again. 608 00:38:40.530 --> 00:38:40.809 Why? 609 00:38:41.170 --> 00:38:44.110 Because we live in a toxic food culture today. And 610 00:38:44.130 --> 00:38:46.550 because they didn't know how to make the pivot from 611 00:38:46.590 --> 00:38:52.110 being pushed by pain to being pulled by love. So 612 00:38:52.309 --> 00:38:54.400 I think that to be truly sustainable, you need a 613 00:38:54.469 --> 00:38:57.840 fuel source rooted in your vision and what you're going towards, 614 00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:01.699 not just what you're trying to get away from. Now, 615 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.380 running away from a tiger can be a great motivator 616 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:07.760 for running really fast and paying a lot of attention. 617 00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:11.440 But if you spend your life running away from tigers, 618 00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:14.039 you're probably not going to get anywhere worth going to. 619 00:39:17.659 --> 00:39:19.820 So that points to

a distinction I know you've made 620 00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:23.849 in the past between nourishment and perfection. And, you know, 621 00:39:24.110 --> 00:39:26.409 so often I think when we get information about how 622 00:39:26.449 --> 00:39:28.710 we could do better, live better, eat better, all these 623 00:39:28.750 --> 00:39:32.579 things become... of our conditioning, we tend to internalize that 624 00:39:32.619 --> 00:39:35.489 as shoulds. And then it becomes another way we beat 625 00:39:35.550 --> 00:39:38.949 up on ourselves or strive for perfection, which is really 626 00:39:39.010 --> 00:39:41.309 counterproductive to what we're trying to do in the first place. 627 00:39:41.329 --> 00:39:43.409 Could you repeat those four things you said before? 628 00:39:43.809 --> 00:39:48.929 You said, I think you said, Eat better, stress less, 629 00:39:48.989 --> 00:39:50.659 love more, and move more. And if we want to 630 00:39:50.739 --> 00:39:53.679 add two more, it's avoid risky substances and sleep better. 631 00:39:53.699 --> 00:39:57.760 Yeah, great. So how do we do that in a 632 00:39:57.820 --> 00:40:01.329 way that really is grounded in self-compassion and is actually 633 00:40:01.449 --> 00:40:06.010 nourishing rather than turning it into another project and another should? 634 00:40:06.070 --> 00:40:10.820 And I got to somehow... whip myself into doing this 635 00:40:10.909 --> 00:40:13.110 right and exceeding at it. And, you know, it's so, 636 00:40:13.369 --> 00:40:15.929 because we have so much that conditioning in our society 637 00:40:16.010 --> 00:40:18.750 and in ourselves from our childhoods. I mean, you grew 638 00:40:18.829 --> 00:40:22.449 up in a hippie household out in the mountains, so 639 00:40:22.510 --> 00:40:25.809 you may not be the best before and after case 640 00:40:25.969 --> 00:40:27.760 for us to look at, but a lot of us 641 00:40:28.219 --> 00:40:31.019 didn't grow up in that world. And so, you know, 642 00:40:31.059 --> 00:40:33.679 we get this information and it just turns into another 643 00:40:33.739 --> 00:40:36.400 should and another project and another form of stress. 644 00:40:37.340 --> 00:40:42.039 Absolutely. I mean, To paraphrase Mark Bronstein, the person who 645 00:40:42.139 --> 00:40:45.559 eats beer and franks with cheer and thanks will probably 646 00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:47.449 be healthier in the long run than the person who 647 00:40:47.489 --> 00:40:52.730 eats sprouts and bread with doubts and dread. And there's 648 00:40:53.050 --> 00:40:57.150 fascinating research on ice cream. My grandpa started Baskin Robbins. 649 00:40:57.329 --> 00:40:59.969 My dad followed his own rocky road, took a very 650 00:41:00.010 --> 00:41:03.809 different path. I do not consider ice cream a health food. 651 00:41:05.230 --> 00:41:09.429 But recently I was writing an article on... plant-based ice 652 00:41:09.489 --> 00:41:14.329 creams that are sugar-free and recipes. And I tried to 653 00:41:14.369 --> 00:41:16.269 look up, you know, why is ice... I wanted to 654 00:41:16.309 --> 00:41:18.909 have a scintillating paragraph about how terrible ice cream was 655 00:41:18.969 --> 00:41:20.409 for our health. I didn't think it would be hard 656 00:41:20.449 --> 00:41:23.829 to find the research to back it up, but I couldn't. 657 00:41:25.329 --> 00:41:30.469 I discovered something called the ice cream paradox. Harvard researchers 658 00:41:30.710 --> 00:41:36.010 have pored over studies, and it seems that... that ice 659 00:41:36.090 --> 00:41:39.880 cream is actually associated with a neutral or even slightly 660 00:41:39.949 --> 00:41:44.079 positive effect on type 2 diabetes risk and a neutral 661 00:41:44.139 --> 00:41:49.900 effect or even slightly positive on cardiovascular disease risk. And 662 00:41:49.940 --> 00:41:53.449 it performs better, by the way, than dairy products in general, 663 00:41:53.789 --> 00:41:59.070 like significantly. So how is that possible, that taking dairy 664 00:41:59.190 --> 00:42:02.090 and adding, which is high in saturated fat, and then 665 00:42:02.210 --> 00:42:05.599 adding sugar to it and flavorings, is going to turn 666 00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:11.420 into something that has potentially health benefits. There's no easy 667 00:42:11.460 --> 00:42:14.929 way to explain this, but I think there's a couple 668 00:42:14.949 --> 00:42:17.530 of factors and actually there's a lot to it. We 669 00:42:17.550 --> 00:42:21.590 could get into a whole academic research discussion here. It's 670 00:42:21.650 --> 00:42:24.170 easy to lie with statistics, even if you don't mean to, 671 00:42:24.929 --> 00:42:27.630 instead of what is the big factor. So if somebody 672 00:42:27.690 --> 00:42:30.230 is eating ice cream, they may not be eating donuts. 673 00:42:31.300 --> 00:42:33.820 Maybe ice cream is healthier than donuts. It's certainly lower 674 00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:37.719 on the glycemic index. But I'm just using that as 675 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:41.769 an example, right? But there is something else going on here. 676 00:42:41.849 --> 00:42:45.190 I think that out of all the desserts that we 677 00:42:45.230 --> 00:42:48.349 tend to eat, ice cream is one that is eaten 678 00:42:48.389 --> 00:42:52.920 more slowly because it's cold and therefore savored more. It 679 00:42:52.980 --> 00:42:55.860 probably has more pleasure bang for the buck than just 680 00:42:55.940 --> 00:43:01.320 about any other sweet out there. And it's associated with celebrations, 681 00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:07.550 with social connection, with little league wins, with parties, with birthdays, 682 00:43:08.349 --> 00:43:11.570 with going out together with a friend, going out on dates, 683 00:43:11.829 --> 00:43:16.949 all sorts of fun things. And I think that pleasure 684 00:43:17.690 --> 00:43:20.090 and loving human connection are really good for our health. 685 00:43:21.869 --> 00:43:23.590 So I'm not going to assert that ice cream is 686

00:43:23.670 --> 00:43:28.079 itself a health food. I am going to assert that love, pleasure, connection... 687 00:43:28.420 --> 00:43:32.780 our healthy practices may be enough so to outweigh the 688 00:43:32.820 --> 00:43:35.960 negative effects of a little drunk food here or there. So, 689 00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:39.949 you know, when I talk about a food revolution, I 690 00:43:40.190 --> 00:43:41.849 want to be really clear. You don't have to sign 691 00:43:41.889 --> 00:43:43.889 a purity pact. You don't have to open your kitchen 692 00:43:43.909 --> 00:43:47.389 to regular inspections from the food police to look at 693 00:43:47.409 --> 00:43:49.969 how you can bring your food choices into integrity with 694 00:43:50.010 --> 00:43:53.889 your values. And I'm going to assert that one of 695 00:43:53.949 --> 00:43:59.059 those values should be love. One of those values should 696 00:43:59.099 --> 00:44:02.219 be pleasure. And can you learn to love foods that 697 00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:06.280 love you back? Can you learn to share healthy foods 698 00:44:06.760 --> 00:44:10.199 with loved ones in ways that uplift everybody's sense of 699 00:44:10.260 --> 00:44:14.119 social connection? If you can do that, I think you 700 00:44:14.139 --> 00:44:14.820 get a win-win. 701 00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:19.139 Yeah, as you were speaking about ice cream, as you 702 00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:21.110 brought that up, I was saying I enjoy a little 703 00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:22.889 coconut ice cream every now and then. 704 00:44:23.690 --> 00:44:24.130 It's a treat. 705 00:44:24.210 --> 00:44:26.840 It's not very frequent, but But what came up for 706 00:44:26.860 --> 00:44:30.260 me is it's associated with joy. You know? I mean, 707 00:44:30.300 --> 00:44:32.719 do you ever see anybody eat ice cream with a 708 00:44:32.739 --> 00:44:34.570 frown on their face? Right? 709 00:44:34.809 --> 00:44:36.750 No. I mean, I think there are some people who 710 00:44:36.769 --> 00:44:40.449 will down a pint or two while binge-watching, doing scrolling 711 00:44:40.510 --> 00:44:42.530 on Facebook late at night. There is that. 712 00:44:42.789 --> 00:44:45.469 There is that. Yes, there is that. 713 00:44:45.510 --> 00:44:50.159 But in general, one cone is probably linked to a 714 00:44:50.260 --> 00:44:52.300 lot of joy and pleasure, you know, for a lot 715 00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:54.599 of people. Yeah. How do we cultivate that? Now, I 716 00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:58.480 think we don't have to choose between, you know, joy 717 00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:02.829 and with junk food and like doubts and dread with 718 00:45:02.849 --> 00:45:06.510 sprouts and bread. Like, why don't we learn to actually 719 00:45:06.550 --> 00:45:08.769 have as much joy and pleasure as possible with things 720 00:45:08.789 --> 00:45:12.500 that are also nourishing for ourselves and help us have 721 00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:16.619 better blood flow and better blood sugar balance and better 722 00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:20.219 metabolic health? There are certain foods that are clearly healthy. 723 00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:23.659 linked to better health outcomes. And, you know, most of 724 00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:29.300 them aren't high in saturated fat and sugar, but let's 725 00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:33.170 not forget about the value of peace, joy, and connection. 726 00:45:34.369 --> 00:45:36.369 Yeah. Could I get that same smile to come on 727 00:45:36.409 --> 00:45:38.369 my face with kale that I can with an ice 728 00:45:38.789 --> 00:45:40.630 cream cone? 729 00:45:41.409 --> 00:45:44.230 Well, just remember this. My parents almost named me kale 730 00:45:46.389 --> 00:45:49.329 way before kale was cool. Maybe that'll make you smile 731 00:45:49.349 --> 00:45:50.070 when you think about it. 732 00:45:51.030 --> 00:45:55.050 It will. So, um, you know, I'm sure you're familiar 733 00:45:55.090 --> 00:45:57.269 with Robert Walden. He's a friend and colleague of mine. 734 00:45:57.289 --> 00:45:59.800 He's also a Zen teacher like myself, and he happens 735 00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:03.380 to lead the Harvard study of adult development. He's the 736 00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:07.800 fourth director of the longest longitudinal study of health development 737 00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:11.860 of adult development. That's at Harvard started with a group of, uh, 738 00:46:11.940 --> 00:46:15.880 male underclassmen, a very patriarchal world over 90 years ago. 739 00:46:15.940 --> 00:46:18.889 And then a group of, um, young men from a 740 00:46:18.929 --> 00:46:22.349 very poor neighborhood in Boston and following them for over 741 00:46:22.349 --> 00:46:24.050 90 years. Most of them, I think a few are 742 00:46:24.090 --> 00:46:27.230 still alive, but eventually they started tracking the spouses and 743 00:46:27.250 --> 00:46:30.050 the children as well. So they enlarged the study. But 744 00:46:30.090 --> 00:46:34.909 that study demonstrates that bar none, the leading contributor to 745 00:46:34.969 --> 00:46:39.389 longevity and health span is the health of our relationships, 746 00:46:40.210 --> 00:46:42.710 quality relationships. And they don't have to be perfect. it 747 00:46:42.730 --> 00:46:44.630 can be, you know, there can be a little bit 748 00:46:44.670 --> 00:46:46.510 of bickering in this or that, but you know that 749 00:46:46.550 --> 00:46:48.960 there's somebody that has your back and you have their back. 750 00:46:49.019 --> 00:46:53.219 The existence of this, you know, the sense of connectedness 751 00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.360 in our life. And I know a big part of 752 00:46:55.400 --> 00:46:58.800 your movement at Food Revolution Network has really been about community. 753 00:46:59.469 --> 00:47:01.809 So I wonder if you could talk about the community 754 00:47:01.949 --> 00:47:06.150 aspect of this and perhaps how even community has played 755 00:47:06.190 --> 00:47:09.550 a role in your own grieving and loss process over 756 00:47:09.590 -->

00:47:13.590 the last number of months. And, uh, and how you 757 00:47:13.610 --> 00:47:19.570 see community contributing to the world we all aspire to 758 00:47:19.650 --> 00:47:22.110 and to that same resilience we were just talking about. 759 00:47:23.510 --> 00:47:27.460 There's an old saying that among friends, sorrow shared is 760 00:47:27.559 --> 00:47:34.599 halved and joy shared is doubled. That we can make 761 00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:40.519 each other's burdens lighter and each other's celebrations more vast. 762 00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:46.699 I think it's true. And I think we do get 763 00:47:46.739 --> 00:47:49.070 by with a little help from our friends, sometimes a 764 00:47:49.110 --> 00:47:53.550 lot of help from our friends. And one thing that's 765 00:47:53.590 --> 00:47:56.869 been really clear to me since my dad passed in 766 00:47:56.909 --> 00:48:01.150 particular is how critically important our web of relationships is. 767 00:48:02.829 --> 00:48:05.730 And every day of our lives, we're either building it 768 00:48:05.889 --> 00:48:12.539 or shredding it. Now, there are some people that probably 769 00:48:13.070 --> 00:48:15.710 don't deserve a central starring role in our life story. 770 00:48:17.809 --> 00:48:22.550 Like being able to disengage from unhealthy relationships is as 771 00:48:22.610 --> 00:48:28.210 important as being able to reach for healthy ones. But 772 00:48:28.250 --> 00:48:31.510 there are moments when being able to work through something 773 00:48:32.469 --> 00:48:39.190 builds a friendship, builds a partnership. My wife and I 774 00:48:39.210 --> 00:48:43.710 have had more tough conversations than any two people than 775 00:48:43.769 --> 00:48:49.190 anyone else in my life. And, um, somehow each time 776 00:48:49.230 --> 00:48:51.469 we go through a tough spot and we come out 777 00:48:51.510 --> 00:48:54.630 the other side more connected and, and with more, it 778 00:48:54.670 --> 00:48:58.329 builds more trust, you know, it builds more kinship and 779 00:48:58.369 --> 00:49:01.469 what builds more sense of belonging. And that's another part 780 00:49:01.489 --> 00:49:04.159 of resilience is having a web of relationships that we 781 00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:07.179 can fall into that people that will catch us, people 782 00:49:07.219 --> 00:49:12.739 that will give us honest feedback, tell us the truth. Um, 783 00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:17.269 and that will take us to the doctor's office when 784 00:49:17.289 --> 00:49:22.150 we're sick, that will, um, help us not need to 785 00:49:22.170 --> 00:49:25.210 go to the hospital because they can take care of 786 00:49:25.269 --> 00:49:28.349 us at home. Like all the things that loved ones 787 00:49:28.389 --> 00:49:31.409 do for each other that can make such a difference 788 00:49:31.469 --> 00:49:35.550 in moments of need and vulnerability. So I want friends 789 00:49:35.610 --> 00:49:39.309 that are comfortable with my tears, that are comfortable with 790 00:49:39.349 --> 00:49:46.539 my laughter, And that encourage my positive choices and habits. 791 00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:49.260 I want friends that are willing to tell the truth, 792 00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:54.019 that are willing to take risks and be vulnerable, and 793 00:49:54.059 --> 00:49:58.550 that love me. I live in a small eco-village community, 794 00:49:58.610 --> 00:50:00.670 so my wife and I started this, and there's about 795 00:50:00.670 --> 00:50:03.469 15 of us now living as best we can in 796 00:50:03.510 --> 00:50:05.369 a good way, in a good place with good people. 797 00:50:06.269 --> 00:50:10.420 Growing a big permaculture garden and orchard and now 10 798 00:50:10.420 --> 00:50:13.590 avocado trees coming along. There's a lot of guacamole in 799 00:50:13.619 --> 00:50:19.309 our future and composting and, you know, having human who 800 00:50:19.349 --> 00:50:23.199 are buckets. We're trying to, trying to live in the, 801 00:50:23.329 --> 00:50:26.309 in right relation with the earth. We're solar powered and, 802 00:50:27.389 --> 00:50:30.230 you know, we're not, we're not survivalists. We're just trying 803 00:50:30.269 --> 00:50:32.190 to live in this world in a good way. Um, 804 00:50:33.869 --> 00:50:37.480 and it's beautiful to come home after a long day 805 00:50:37.539 --> 00:50:40.340 of work, trying to change the world and live with 806 00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:43.519 people in a world that is somehow a little bit 807 00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:48.139 closer to that change we're working towards. And I love 808 00:50:48.380 --> 00:50:50.789 the love that we share. I love camaraderie of sharing 809 00:50:50.849 --> 00:50:53.630 meals and always having someone to pick me up at 810 00:50:53.650 --> 00:50:59.329 the airport and sharing washing machines and, you know, electric 811 00:50:59.369 --> 00:51:03.579 cars and just being able to to do things cooperatively. 812 00:51:03.619 --> 00:51:06.000 I think the nuclear family is, for many of us, 813 00:51:06.039 --> 00:51:11.300 a really lonely affair. And so more and more we're discovering, 814 00:51:11.340 --> 00:51:13.059 I think, how much we need each other to feel 815 00:51:13.099 --> 00:51:13.900 truly resilient. 816 00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:18.659 Yeah, that's really, it's beautiful you're doing that. Many of 817 00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:22.289 my contemporaries engaged in similar pursuits back in the 60s 818 00:51:22.369 --> 00:51:25.489 and 70s. And I have dear friends here, and we 819 00:51:25.530 --> 00:51:27.849 live in western Massachusetts now, and I have some dear 820 00:51:27.889 --> 00:51:31.170 friends a little further up in the Berkshires. And they 821 00:51:31.190 --> 00:51:33.690 created a community like that way back in the 70s 822 00:51:33.849 --> 00:51:37.389 and everything you were just talking about. And unfortunately, with 823 00:51:37.409 --> 00:51:41.510 the vicissitudes of life and people getting older, it's, you know, 824 00:51:41.570 --> 00:51:44.929

the communal aspect of it is lessened a little bit 825 00:51:45.030 --> 00:51:47.949 and more of a co-housing thing. And, you know, just 826 00:51:47.989 --> 00:51:50.429 because they've all gotten quite old, but it's great to 827 00:51:50.469 --> 00:51:56.480 see there's generation after generation exploring these ways of being. And, 828 00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:00.869 you know, we're hearing from social researchers today that there's 829 00:52:00.909 --> 00:52:05.449 an end, you know, that loneliness is becoming endemic and isolation. 830 00:52:05.570 --> 00:52:09.000 And the research says that on average, people have fewer 831 00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:14.360 and fewer close friends and best friends. And, you know, 832 00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:17.659 so I think it's a really serious social issue. And 833 00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:20.780 we're raising a young generation that perhaps because of social 834 00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:24.329 media has fewer social skills and ability to create those 835 00:52:24.389 --> 00:52:28.349 lasting relationships. So this just seems to be a really 836 00:52:28.409 --> 00:52:31.610 important thing for us to focus on and great to 837 00:52:31.670 --> 00:52:37.389 focus on it around, like in your case, healthy living, 838 00:52:37.489 --> 00:52:41.619 plant-based eating, food, right? You're creating a huge community around that, 839 00:52:41.679 --> 00:52:45.940 no shared values. At HeartMind, we're very similar, a little 840 00:52:45.980 --> 00:52:50.000 just broader on global transformation in various dimensions, but very 841 00:52:50.059 --> 00:52:55.300 similar ethic and focus and So I really encourage people, 842 00:52:55.340 --> 00:52:59.280 if you're feeling lonely, join Food Revolution Network, join HeartMiner, 843 00:52:59.300 --> 00:53:02.860 join both, or find communities that you can be part 844 00:53:02.900 --> 00:53:05.639 of in that way. I'd like to, with the time left, 845 00:53:05.699 --> 00:53:11.309 we have Ocean. We touched on this before a little bit, 846 00:53:11.329 --> 00:53:14.250 but I just think it's so important. It kind of 847 00:53:14.289 --> 00:53:19.760 weaves together all these different aspects of dealing with life's challenges, resilience, 848 00:53:20.260 --> 00:53:23.179 being willing to grieve, to keep our hearts open instead 849 00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:28.199 of getting into that closed-heart cynicism and negativity, and being 850 00:53:28.460 --> 00:53:31.630 able to, you know, coming back to what you brought up, 851 00:53:31.659 --> 00:53:35.949 the serenity prayer before. So, you know, I mean, things 852 00:53:36.090 --> 00:53:40.510 are daunting now in many ways, and there is a 853 00:53:40.550 --> 00:53:44.809 lot of loneliness and uncertainty, and the pace of change 854 00:53:44.869 --> 00:53:48.849 seems to be accelerating rapidly. And so it seems all 855 00:53:48.909 --> 00:53:52.210 the more important to have good friends, to have family, 856 00:53:52.230 --> 00:53:57.320 to have community, to have connections, and to be able 857 00:53:57.380 --> 00:54:02.619 to take action in a way that, you know, kind 858 00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:05.219 of from that perspective of the serenity prayer, that we 859 00:54:05.260 --> 00:54:08.500 don't give up, and yet we're not out there, you know, 860 00:54:08.619 --> 00:54:12.820 tilting at windmills and exhausting ourselves either, but find that 861 00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:15.559 way in a healthy way to stay engaged in the world, 862 00:54:15.619 --> 00:54:19.530 to try to keep working together, to try to create 863 00:54:19.550 --> 00:54:21.170 the world that we want to hand over to our 864 00:54:21.389 --> 00:54:23.909 children and grandchildren and so forth. So I wonder if 865 00:54:23.929 --> 00:54:25.789 you could just talk a little bit more about maybe 866 00:54:25.809 --> 00:54:28.110 on a personal level, how you do that, how you 867 00:54:28.150 --> 00:54:29.949 keep your head in the game, your body, your heart 868 00:54:29.989 --> 00:54:35.679 in the game, and imagine a future we can step into. 869 00:54:39.619 --> 00:54:44.469 Well, on a personal level, I really do orient around 870 00:54:44.550 --> 00:54:52.269 love as the central organizing principle of my life. In 871 00:54:52.309 --> 00:54:55.750 other words, I want to ask with every action, will 872 00:54:55.769 --> 00:54:59.929 this contribute to more or less love in me and 873 00:54:59.989 --> 00:55:06.170 in my world? And love for me, love for my 874 00:55:06.230 --> 00:55:13.429 loved ones, love for my planet. And I find that, 875 00:55:15.489 --> 00:55:19.980 for me at least, being a human on Earth in 876 00:55:20.019 --> 00:55:23.389 a body There's a lot of wisdom in this body. 877 00:55:24.570 --> 00:55:28.730 And my mind can think it's in charge, can try 878 00:55:28.750 --> 00:55:34.809 to shape the world to my will, can think, recycle 879 00:55:34.849 --> 00:55:37.989 thoughts over and over and over again, each with slightly 880 00:55:38.030 --> 00:55:42.489 different packaging to seduce itself into thinking that it's original. 881 00:55:44.130 --> 00:55:46.329 But my body is sort of here in real time, 882 00:55:47.889 --> 00:55:51.280 all the time. So I do a lot of body 883 00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:57.860 scanning where I'm looking for sensation. And I don't make 884 00:55:57.900 --> 00:56:00.079 it wrong. If there's some tightness in my gut, I 885 00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:03.119 don't think, oh, what's wrong with me? I get curious. 886 00:56:04.969 --> 00:56:07.829 What's happening here? And it's amazing how things become more 887 00:56:07.849 --> 00:56:11.530 beautiful when we love them. They become a better version 888 00:56:11.570 --> 00:56:14.789 of themselves. We know this in internal family systems where 889 00:56:15.309 --> 00:56:18.309 when you love a part... the part that's been doing 890 00:56:18.349 --> 00:56:20.389 the same thing for a very long time that other 891 00:56:20.429 --> 00:56:24.349 parts

might be judging as being very dysfunctional can actually 892 00:56:24.449 --> 00:56:26.730 open and you suddenly realize, oh, you're just trying to 893 00:56:26.769 --> 00:56:30.300 help in the way that you know how. Thank you. 894 00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:33.619 And then in the presence of that feel, that part 895 00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:39.880 softens and sometimes can reassign. Sensations to me are similar. 896 00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:42.539 There might be a tightness in my gut and I think, oh, 897 00:56:42.579 --> 00:56:45.960 what's wrong? Why am I And then I listen and 898 00:56:45.980 --> 00:56:49.280 I get curious and often it just softens and there's 899 00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:52.179 this rush of energy that becomes available to me. But 900 00:56:52.219 --> 00:56:55.840 also sometimes there's a certain wisdom. Like I may be 901 00:56:56.179 --> 00:56:58.920 about to send a charged or complicated email and I 902 00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:04.610 will scan it after writing it while listening for my 903 00:57:04.929 --> 00:57:08.929 gut's response. And there might be one spot where I 904 00:57:08.989 --> 00:57:11.230 notice a little tightness. And then I just hone in 905 00:57:11.269 --> 00:57:12.929 on that and I realize, oh, that sentence is off. 906 00:57:13.929 --> 00:57:17.130 I change it and then that tightness disappears. So this 907 00:57:17.210 --> 00:57:19.809 is just kind of my own little process, if you will. 908 00:57:19.909 --> 00:57:23.610 But I'm constantly looking for feedback loops for my own 909 00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:26.320 body sensation. And they have so much wisdom for me 910 00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:28.760 that my mind can be a student of at best. 911 00:57:30.039 --> 00:57:33.679 It can't define or shape or certainly fully understand. 912 00:57:33.699 --> 00:57:36.579 That's beautiful. I was about to ask you. 913 00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:38.199 I find that really enriching. 914 00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:39.289 Mm-hmm. 915 00:57:41.050 --> 00:57:41.969 Yeah, I was about to ask. 916 00:57:41.849 --> 00:57:45.389 You if you had a go-to practice that you could offer. 917 00:57:45.409 --> 00:57:50.469 And I think that practice of scanning embodiment and trusting 918 00:57:50.510 --> 00:57:53.190 the wisdom of the body, wow, that's such a powerful 919 00:57:53.230 --> 00:57:54.090 practice to offer. 920 00:57:54.269 --> 00:57:58.309 Yeah, and the other big one is breathing. And there's 921 00:57:58.349 --> 00:58:01.849 research on this. I mean, box breathing or so many 922 00:58:01.889 --> 00:58:06.409 different forms where you're intentional, you're deep, you're slow, and 923 00:58:06.429 --> 00:58:11.840 you're tracking, right? And just that can change us. our 924 00:58:11.889 --> 00:58:18.210 nervous system radically from reaction to presence. Sometimes in as 925 00:58:18.250 --> 00:58:22.489 little as 30 seconds or a minute. So I have 926 00:58:22.530 --> 00:58:25.760 a lot of little, I guess you could say, meditation 927 00:58:25.820 --> 00:58:31.519 snacks that bring me back to self and presence woven 928 00:58:31.539 --> 00:58:35.110 through my days. And then the other one is dancing. Like, 929 00:58:35.489 --> 00:58:37.829 I just love to dance. And so sometimes I just 930 00:58:37.869 --> 00:58:40.980 put on a song And just dance. And it's like 931 00:58:41.179 --> 00:58:44.300 life to me isn't just about survival. It's also about ecstasy. 932 00:58:45.059 --> 00:58:47.900 And dancing is my, like one of my favorite paths 933 00:58:47.940 --> 00:58:48.559 to ecstasy. 934 00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:52.480 That's so great. That's so great. Yeah, really a through 935 00:58:52.519 --> 00:58:54.760 line to our work at HeartMind is really coming home 936 00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:59.489 to the body. And then recognizing that we can state shift. 937 00:58:59.570 --> 00:59:01.590 If we're in a state that's not really serving us 938 00:59:01.690 --> 00:59:03.710 at the moment, we can shift our state. And dancing 939 00:59:03.750 --> 00:59:07.130 is one of the most powerful state shift practices there is, right? 940 00:59:07.610 --> 00:59:09.730 It's hard, just like eating ice cream, it's hard unless 941 00:59:09.750 --> 00:59:13.699 you're you know really doing a late night um self-destructive 942 00:59:13.739 --> 00:59:16.159 thing but if you're just enjoying the the ice cream 943 00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:18.300 cone with family and friends you know it's hard you 944 00:59:18.460 --> 00:59:20.699 rarely see somebody doing that with a frown you almost 945 00:59:20.739 --> 00:59:22.940 never see anybody dancing with a frown either. 946 00:59:22.739 --> 00:59:26.159 Right no unless it's part of what you can dance 947 00:59:26.219 --> 00:59:28.300 like you know sometimes it's actually fun to dance out 948 00:59:28.340 --> 00:59:31.679 a character you know like cranky just try it sometime 949 00:59:31.900 --> 00:59:33.900 you might find it incredibly fun. 950 00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:42.119 Shadow dancing yeah Oh, cool. Well, this has been really enriching, Ocean, 951 00:59:42.179 --> 00:59:44.760 and thank you so much for your work. Many thanks 952 00:59:44.940 --> 00:59:48.610 and honor to your father for his many, many decades 953 00:59:48.679 --> 00:59:51.760 of service to our world. And thank you for deciding 954 00:59:51.800 --> 00:59:54.869 to continue the work of Food Revolution Network and all 955 00:59:54.889 --> 00:59:55.750 you bring to the world. 956 00:59:57.389 --> 00:59:59.389 Well, Fleet, it's been a joy to share this time 957 00:59:59.429 --> 01:00:02.010 with you. And for everybody watching, thank you for your 958 01:00:03.030 --> 01:00:06.510 your curiosity, your presence and your attention in this conversation. 959 01:00:06.530 --> 01:00:10.050 I hope it's been of some value to you and 960 01:00:10.730 --> 01:00:14.110 that you're able to use whatever you've gotten from this 961 01:00:14.230 --> 01:00:16.989 in ways that make your life better and hopefully help 962 01:00:17.130 --> 01:00:18.489 some other people's lives get better too. 963 01:00:19.449 --> 01:00:22.030 Wonderful. So where can people find out more about Food 964 01:00:22.090 --> 01:00:24.429 Revolution Network and your work? 965 01:00:24.929 --> 01:00:29.530 Yeah, go to foodrevolution.org. We've got hundreds of articles and 966 01:00:29.650 --> 01:00:33.239 recipes and resources for free right on our website. We 967 01:00:33.260 --> 01:00:38.570 have summits and masterclasses and courses and films and a 968 01:00:38.610 --> 01:00:43.070 membership community we call Whole Life Club and a coaching certificate. 969 01:00:43.130 --> 01:00:46.119 If you're interested in being a leader in the nutrition 970 01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:50.159 and lifestyle movement and gaining skills to coach and understanding 971 01:00:50.199 --> 01:00:54.179 behavior change and building a really powerful community with kindred spirits, 972 01:00:54.739 --> 01:00:59.329 consider joining our coaching certificate. It's a really sweet community there. 973 01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:02.920 And thanks so much for being a part of the 974 01:01:02.940 --> 01:01:06.659 Food Revolution. Every time you choose real food over processed junk, 975 01:01:07.260 --> 01:01:11.739 every time you choose love over cynicism, you're with us. 976 01:01:11.989 --> 01:01:12.670 Thank you for that. 977 01:01:13.789 --> 01:01:21.050 OceanRobbinsFoodRevolution.org. Thank you so much. And yeah, just a blessing 978 01:01:21.429 --> 01:01:23.829 to share this with you. So thank you. And thank 979 01:01:23.869 --> 01:01:29.300 you to everybody. Thank you for joining me on the 980 01:01:29.340 --> 01:01:33.659 Radical Responsibility Podcast. Remember, real change happens when we commit 981 01:01:33.739 --> 01:01:37.440 to our growth, face our challenges with compassion, and stay 982 01:01:37.500 --> 01:01:40.619 open to transformation. If you found this episode helpful, I 983 01:01:40.659 --> 01:01:43.250 encourage you to subscribe and help us spread the message 984 01:01:43.309 --> 01:01:46.969 of healing and personal empowerment. Until next time, stay grounded, 985 01:01:47.010 --> 01:01:50.070 stay present, and stay true to yourself. Take care.