This Is MY Normal | Lisa the Joyful (Ep. 175) ၏ စာသားမှတ်တမ်းအပြည့်အစုံ

little, tiny packages, 73 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.639 and it doesn't like. What I love about them so 74 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:18.639 much is that they don't give you gigantic text walls 75 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:21.720 or long forty five minute cut scenes to explain it all, 76 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:25.240 to give you these like short, concentrated bursts that I 77 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:28.439 just love. I love it so much. I have never 78 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:30.800 played the first, though I do need to go back 79 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:31.519 and play that one. 80 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:36.399 So as far as playing Painful and Joyful, are you 81 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:40.199 in agreement with me? Insofar as Joyful feeling a bit 82 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:44.240 as not an afterthoughts the wrong word, but more of 83 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:46.879 a more of an expansion, a DLC sort of thing. 84 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:51.519 Yeah, yeah, there's definitely not as much too joyful as 85 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:54.959 that as painful. It's I'm struggling to even really call 86 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:58.240 it an expansion. It kind of feels more like, I 87 00:04:58.240 --> 00:04:59.720 don't know, what the word would be for it, but 88 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:02.639 just like a little extra add on kind of. I 89 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:05.199 guess it would be an expansion because it's expanding the 90 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:07.800 story a little bit. But I agree with you. 91 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:10.519 Though, Yeah, yeah, no, I feel you kind of like 92 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:14.439 one of those special DVD releases, like a full length 93 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:17.199 movie of Dragon ball Z that tells a condensed story, 94 00:05:17.319 --> 00:05:18.879 you know, it's not like a full season arc. 95 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:24.160 There we go. Yeah, or the weirdo one off the 96 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:28.160 Shield had this weird like DVD bonus exclusive, like ten 97 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:30.279 minutes scene that was only on a DVD that you 98 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:31.839 don't get in the show. Kind of like that. 99 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:35.920 I'll take your word for it. I've never seen that show. 100 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:37.399 That's a superhero show, right. 101 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:41.079 No, it's like a corrupt cop like crime drama show. 102 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:42.040 It's it's really. 103 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:46.959 Good opposite of superheroes. Okay, well I wasn't really close, 104 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:51.160 but I understand what you mean. I first played Lisa 105 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:53.199 the Painful. I think I heard of it from I 106 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:55.160 also heard of it from a YouTuber, but I heard 107 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:58.920 of it from Dunkey a while back. I think his 108 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:02.680 video on Lisa is masterful because it does not it 109 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:06.879 doesn't spoil anything story wise, but it also doesn't spoil 110 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:10.439 what the narrative is thematically. I thought it was going 111 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:12.920 to be a funny game because he showed the funny 112 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:16.199 parts because he's He's Donkey. But it's not that at all, 113 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:19.480 and I have loved it ever since. Lisa the Painful 114 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:23.199 is one of my favorite games of all time, and 115 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:26.319 I've been going to bat for it since. When did 116 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:29.160 I play it? Probably twenty sixteen, I want to say 117 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:32.279 something like that, twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, something around there, 118 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:37.319 and Joyful. I actually didn't fully complete until the Definitive 119 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:41.560 edition came out. I played this playthrough. I played the original. 120 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:44.560 We'll talk about the different versions in a second here. 121 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:50.439 There are some differences, but I played the original. I overall, 122 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:54.199 I think I didn't have a bad time with this game. 123 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:59.439 But there I find I'm struggling to not say that 124 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:02.959 I think it fails in just about every way that 125 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:07.000 Lisa the Painful succeeded. It's not that I think that 126 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:12.319 this is superfluous, but I think it is extraordinarily unnecessary 127 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:14.759 to the narrative. I don't really think it does anything 128 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:17.920 gameplay wise. It deviates so much from Painful that a 129 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:22.399 lot of what made that Special is just not here again. 130 00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:25.199 Like I'm I'm a total freak for this series. I 131 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:27.639 love it, so I didn't have a bad time, but 132 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:31.120 there's nothing in here that makes me want to come back. 133 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:34.360 This is it's I said this later and I'm just 134 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:36.959 gonna steal a quote from myself. It feels like a 135 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:40.720 simulacrum of Lisa the Painful Fact simile, a cheap copy 136 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:43.959 that has There are a few cool scenes that are 137 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:48.639 really terrific, but it feels almost like a husk. It 138 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:51.920 feels soulless in some ways, which is weird because the 139 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:54.120 soul of the first one was how soulss it was, 140 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:56.240 you know, yeah. 141 00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:58.800 I mean I don't know. I played the game like 142 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.120 or I guess when I play this game, I kind 143 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:04.600 of had the mindset or like I adopted the role 144 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:08.240 of Buddy and like

how I enjoyed it. But yeah, 145 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:11.199 it definitely wasn't as like what I really loved about 146 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:15.639 Painful was, yeah, the goofy, the goofy nonsense humor, people 147 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:18.079 writing poop on the wall, stuff like that, and then 148 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:21.040 also getting gut punched by the story. And I think 149 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:25.519 we talked yesterday just in discord messaging back and forth 150 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:29.439 and yeah, there's a lot like all the mystery regarding 151 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:32.840 the story of Painful and you know, the white flash 152 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:35.879 and all that stuff. I kind of hate that it 153 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:40.360 basically all gets explained, like right at right at the 154 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:43.120 part of my language ass end of Joyful, they kind 155 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:46.039 of just shoehorn in all of the questions that you 156 00:08:46.039 --> 00:08:48.360 had about the story, right and at the end of Joyful, 157 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:51.120 and it's like, okay, well there's no mystery left, so 158 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:52.480 all right, cool. 159 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.720 Yeah, that is exactly how I feel too. It's a 160 00:08:56.960 --> 00:08:59.840 you know, and this is something that I didn't always 161 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:03.759 feel this way about, like fiction stuff, games, stuff like that. 162 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:07.919 I do think leaving some things unexplained if done intentionally, 163 00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:10.399 Like if you just like if you're making a story 164 00:09:10.600 --> 00:09:12.960 a whole narrative and you just forget to explain something 165 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:16.240 that causes some serious plot holes, and you're just like, oh, whoops, 166 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:19.320 forgot about it. That's one thing. But if you intentionally 167 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:23.919 keep something vague or just completely unanswered or unexplored, that 168 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:26.759 can be really effective. And like you said, the flash 169 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:29.879 in the original Lisa that was or I should say, 170 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:33.759 Lisa the Painful that was intentionally not explained, and I 171 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:36.759 think it added a lot to the universe. We don't 172 00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:40.919 need to know, and now that we know, the knowing 173 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:46.679 is so astoundingly unsatisfying. Look, I forget who said this. 174 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:48.919 I think a friend of the show, Chris for Mature 175 00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:52.440 Gradi Amnesia, said this about Chrono triggering Chrono Cross. He 176 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:57.960 said that sequels or remakes don't sully the original. You 177 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:00.840 don't have to like they can be separate. You know, 178 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:03.480 it's okay, he loves Chronocross, by the way, it's not. 179 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:07.799 You know, yes, and you do too. I know I 180 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:10.000 know that. But let's get into it. Let's talk a 181 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:12.399 little bit about Lisa before we do. We do have 182 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:15.039 one piece of Community Forum if you're new to the show. 183 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:17.519 The community Forum is a channel in the Discord server 184 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:22.879 where members can submit their thoughts, reviews, short blurbs, medium blurbs, 185 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:25.240 and I will read them on the show. If you 186 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:28.080 write it, I will read it. For the low low 187 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:32.480 cost of free ninety nine, we got one this time. 188 00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:36.200 It's from Mikey Tabletop, former co host of the Skullgirls 189 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:40.080 episode several others. Mikey says, I haven't played any of 190 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:43.840 the lisas, but the Lisa episode is a top three 191 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:46.679 Pixel Project radio episode for me, so I'm excited to 192 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:48.759 hear more about it. And that's a good point. I'm 193 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:52.279 glad Mikey brought that up. I already venmoted him the money. 194 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:55.559 If you haven't listened to the LEASA the Painful episode, 195 00:10:55.639 --> 00:10:57.200 I encourage you to do. 196 00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:57.480 So. 197 00:10:57.559 --> 00:11:00.679 It is an older one. I want to say twenty 198 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:03.399 twenty two, if I'm not mistaken, it might be twenty three. 199 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:06.720 But it still holds up for the most part, I 200 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:09.799 think it holds up. Okay, a lot of the development, 201 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:12.879 a lot of the visual art, a lot of the 202 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:16.120 art style, a lot of the mechanics, a lot of 203 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:19.679 this is going to be exactly the same as in there. 204 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:22.360 We are going to talk about some differences, and we're 205 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:24.639 going to talk about that stuff too, But I think 206 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:27.120 it would be who've everybody listening to check that out 207 00:11:27.159 --> 00:11:29.399 first at the very least, so you have a foundation, 208 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:33.000 and because this builds directly off of that story. So 209 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:57.360 enough of that, let's get into the history. Joyful was 210 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:01.399 originally released as an expansion to The Painful. Painful came 211 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.600 out in twenty fourteen. Joyful came out in twenty fifteen. 212 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:08.679 August of twenty fifteen. This is part three of a 213 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:12.480 whole trilogy, Lisa the First, Lisa the Painful, and Lisa 214 00:12:12.519 -->

00:12:16.240 the Joyful. Aaron, you said that you haven't played the first. 215 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:20.600 Right, right? I only saw on what Nightgerrat said about it. 216 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:22.200 But I mean I've read a little bit about it too, 217 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:23.559 but never played it. 218 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.480 I have also not played it. I have it on Steam. 219 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:29.000 I think it's free, or it was free for a while. 220 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:33.919 The gist of the story is that Painful is far 221 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:36.440 and away the standout of the trilogy. I don't think 222 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:38.960 it's controversial to say that it's also the longest and 223 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:42.279 has the most stuff in it. Painful is the story 224 00:12:42.279 --> 00:12:46.480 about a man named Brad who is navigating this wasteland 225 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:50.919 of oleitha never confirmed Kansas. But I used to live 226 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:54.039 in Olia, Kansas, so I'm just gonna say sure. It's 227 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:56.799 fun to picture a picture of a local haunts as 228 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.159 being in this game total desolate wasteland. An apocalyptic event 229 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:06.200 called the Flash occurred that destroyed society and eliminated all women. 230 00:13:06.279 --> 00:13:09.240 This is the universe where women do not exist, and 231 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:15.120 Brad is navigating this land with a baby girl. He 232 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.639 finds a baby girl. How did she get there? Who 233 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:21.080 is she nobody knows. That's part of the story. Lisa. 234 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:24.559 The Painful is the prequel. It's the first in the series, 235 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:27.480 and it's about Brad's sister named Lisa. Lisa does not 236 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:34.559 appear in Painful or Joyful outside of flashbacks, hallucinations things 237 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.440 like that. She is a character in The Painful and 238 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.919 it explains her background, her upbringing that ultimately led to 239 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.960 her suicide. Joyful, which we're talking about today as a 240 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.519 follow up to Painful, picks up directly after the events 241 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:49.720 and we focus on Buddy. Buddy is the baby that 242 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:53.840 Brad found. We play this entire game as her. You 243 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:56.559 had mentioned the fan games, Aaron, you had offhandedly mentioned them. 244 00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:57.559 Have you played any of those? 245 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:02.240 No, I just watched rides video. I've been interested in them, 246 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:05.720 but not really enough to play them, because, I mean, 247 00:14:06.759 --> 00:14:09.919 how this might sound stupid if they weren't I guess, 248 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:13.440 if they weren't

made by the original developer behind The 249 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:17.039 Painful and Joyful and all that, I kind of feel 250 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:20.000 like they really aren't worth playing. Oh that sounds stupid, though, 251 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.919 Like I'm sure they're they're in some way worth playing. 252 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.879 No, I don't think it sounds stupid at all. I mean, 253 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:28.519 I kind of, I kind of agree with you. It's 254 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:31.960 not that I don't think they're worth playing, but I 255 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:34.159 do have some hesitance to pick them up because they're 256 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:37.679 fan made games. I'm totally with you. For what it's worth, 257 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:41.559 it might convince the two of us. Jorgensen the creator, 258 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:44.519 his name is Austin Jorgensen. He is aware of them, 259 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:48.120 and he supports them. He did a Q and a 260 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.519 on Reddit a while back whenever the Definitive Edition released, 261 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:54.200 which I suppose we should say this game did get 262 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:58.440 re released. This duology Painful and Joyful got re released 263 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:02.639 as the Definitive Edition back in what would that have been, 264 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.559 July of twenty twenty three, That's when this got re 265 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:09.879 released by Serenity Forge. And he did an AMA on Reddit, 266 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:12.919 a Q and a AMA whatever you'd like under the 267 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:16.559 serenity Forge Reddit account, and he said of the fangames quote, 268 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:19.879 I'm definitely aware of the vibrant Lisa fangame community, and 269 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:22.559 I think it's really awesome that Lisa fans are creating 270 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:25.720 such impressive projects. That said, to be honest, I think 271 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:28.159 a lot of the fangame creators really have what it 272 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.480 takes to create an amazing original ip and personally, I'm 273 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:33.919 more looking forward to playing your original ideas, even if 274 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:35.360 it's inspired by Lisa. 275 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:39.039 That's pretty good. Goddamn it's Yeah. 276 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:41.320 Does it read like a pr response to you? 277 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:44.240 And definitely does. Yeah. 278 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:48.320 He If you scour the Lisa fanwiki, you can find 279 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.360 a lot of links like his sources to different lore 280 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:56.080 tidbits from Austin on Twitter from back in like twenty fifteen, fourteen, 281 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.440 sixteen seventeen. He used to just answer people on Twitter 282 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:01.480 stall all the time because he's just a regular guy. 283 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:04.519 You know, he's actually a very interesting guy. I don't 284 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.840 know what he's doing these days. But there is a 285 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:10.919 big interview that he did with Oh Gosh. I don't 286 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:13.159 know if it's a if it's an old podcast or 287 00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:15.879 an old YouTube channel, but it's it's called sub homes 288 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:19.320 and I mean, you just YouTube Austin Jorgensen interview, it 289 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:24.440 comes up and he mentioned that that his income comes 290 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:27.440 from or maybe he mentioned this on his Kickstarter page. 291 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:30.240 I don't remember. Anyway, they'll both be linked. He mentioned 292 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.440 that his income at the time came from karate like 293 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:37.360 martial arts tournaments, like the winnings, like like that's it. 294 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.039 Like he made his living being a martial artist performer. 295 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:43.159 I mean, I don't know if he taught as well, 296 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:45.120 but that's pretty badass. 297 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:48.480 That is awesome. He's a sur or not oh my gosh, 298 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:52.879 he's a licensed lethal weapon. That's really awesome. I make 299 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:54.720 my living from being a killing machine. 300 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.639 Yeah, I mean that explains why so much of this 301 00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:00.639 game is inspired by that kind of shit. But he's 302 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:02.519 just a regular guy. He would answer stuff like that. 303 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:05.640 He on the Twitter used to And I might be 304 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:09.200 making this up or conflating it, so please do fact 305 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:11.480 check me. But I do have memories of reading some 306 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.640 of his responses that were a little like more direct 307 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:19.079 and not I don't want to say, leaning into the 308 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.039 tough subject matter, but he didn't shy away from it. 309 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:25.160 All of this AMA was done under the Serenity Forge reddit. 310 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.319 All I'm saying is that you know that had to 311 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:32.519 be coordinated between the company and Jorgensen. There are some 312 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:36.319 responses in that AMA that are very clearly written by 313 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:39.079 the Serenity Forge team. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. 314 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:40.920 I'm just saying you've got to take that into account 315 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.240 as you're reading about, specifically about a game like Lisa, 316 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:48.160 which I mean quite frankly saying this twenty minutes in. 317 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:53.000 I'm kind of shocked this got a re release, you

know, 318 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:55.920 especially on Switch. There was a lot of stuff that 319 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:58.599 was censored and cut in the game to be put 320 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:02.039 on Switch specifically. But you know, the fact that we 321 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.079 got this as a definitive edition in general is kind 322 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:06.799 of shocking to me. And I'm thrilled about it because 323 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:08.680 it brings this series to new folks. 324 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:12.319 Oh yeah, yeah, it's when did the originals come out? 325 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.400 They came out? Oh yeah, give it johna down twenty fourteen. 326 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:18.400 It's crazy. It took a whole decade first to get 327 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:19.799 it on Switch and other consoles. 328 00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:23.440 Yeah, I don't think there was I don't don't quote 329 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:24.839 me on this, but I don't know that there were 330 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:28.400 ever plans to bring it outside of PC. That was 331 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:31.799 the original Kickstarter. Just specify that it was PC only. 332 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:34.160 I'm wondering if it's not because it was built and 333 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:37.319 I think this was built in RPG Maker. It's very 334 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:40.519 clearly inspired by Earthbound and it has that kind of look. 335 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:43.240 It does get compared to Undertail a lot, but this 336 00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:47.559 predates Undertail, so that doesn't really work. You know, and 337 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:51.559 also it's just so thematically hystically in contrast with Undertail, 338 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:55.160 another amazing game for what it's worth, incredible masterpiece of 339 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.759 a game. Both of these are. You know, while we're 340 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:01.599 on that AMA there, you had mentioned about Lisa the 341 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:04.480 First and neither of us have played it. We've just 342 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:07.359 read about it in that same account. In that same 343 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.279 AMA thread, they Austin Serenity Forge I don't really know, 344 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:14.000 said that they quote planned to bring the story of 345 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.920 Lisa the First to fans in a different way. Please 346 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:22.160 stay tuned now, Aaron, I don't know if you've seen 347 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:24.920 gameplay footage of Lisa the First, but even if you 348 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:28.799 just know fundamentally what it is, I I kind of 349 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:31.119 call bullshit on that. I don't see that happening. 350 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:34.160 Yeah, as far as I'm aware of, the First is 351 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:36.720 just kind of like Yumy Niki or a lot of 352 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.839 other RPG maker games. So it's pretty graphic as far 353 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:41.279 as I know. 354 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:45.119 So, how would you describe Umy Nikki oh. 355 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:49.880 Man, Like, like, I guess an exploration game exploring through 356 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:53.240 different dream worlds. That'd be kind of the same as 357 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:57.240 Lisa the First. They're they're very similar, except you know, 358 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:00.279 Lisa the first, having just a ton of a lot 359 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.519 of sensitive subject matter that you don't get in YOUU Mayniki. 360 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:09.200 Yeah, yeah, that's that's putting it lightly for what it's worth. 361 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:13.400 I've also never played YOUU Mayniki. Lisa the first. It's 362 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:16.039 not told like in a narrative way. It's kind of 363 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:20.519 told an abstraction through what looks to these like dreams 364 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:26.039 of the titular Lisa. Functionally, it is about her childhood 365 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:29.319 and how she was sexually abused and assaulted by her father, Marty. 366 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.680 We see Marty a lot and Lisa the painful, especially 367 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:35.400 as it relates to Brad. But the first, that's just 368 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:39.559 what that's all about, and it shows why she chose 369 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:40.559 to end her life. 370 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:45.079 Yeah, and there's joyful added a couple little bits here 371 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.160 and there that I guess that pertained to Lisa, Like 372 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:51.960 you get, oh, what's his name, Buzzo, Buzzo or Rando. 373 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:53.519 I get their names mixed up all the time. But 374 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.359 he has like the pointy helmet. He mentions Lisa like 375 00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:58.839 kind of right at the end. I'm not going to 376 00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:01.920 spoil that, but yeah, that's her. 377 00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:03.920 Right A few times. Yeah, Oh, I'm sorry, what. 378 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:06.039 Did you say, I was just saying that they mentioned 379 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:08.279 her a few times and enjoyful and that's pretty much 380 00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:10.559 all ever hear of her in this game in particular. 381 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:14.960 Yeah, I'm of two minds about it. I do think, hmm, 382 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:17.240 how to say this. I go back and forth with 383 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:19.319 myself on this, So I'm actually I'm actually curious to 384 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:23.359 hear what you think, Aarin. Do you think that the 385 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:29.160 Lisa trilogy is or should fundamentally be about Lisa the character, 386 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:32.400 whether it's about her memory, her impact on the world 387 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:36.599 and those around her, her legacy, or do you think 388 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:41.279 that

each game works better as not a standalone thing 389 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:44.039 but like focused on a new individual, you know, obviously 390 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:46.359 with Painful being Brad and Joyful being Buddy. 391 00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:49.359 That's tough. I like the idea of the second one 392 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.880 about or not not the second one, your second idea 393 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:58.319 of basically three separate games, each or each kind of 394 00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:00.440 being affected by Lisa and a day for a way 395 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.559 of course, the first being all about Lisa, and then 396 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:06.119 the second one trailing after having to do with with 397 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:10.400 Brad and I guess his Lisa's impact on him, and 398 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.599 then after that with the Joyful and that dealing with 399 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:17.599 Brad's impact on Buddy as a result of of how 400 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:21.640 Lisa's situation affected him and everything. I think I think 401 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:24.160 that was pretty good because there's a lot of little 402 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:27.480 bits and pieces that you get and joyful that's the 403 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:30.720 little mentions of Lisa and of course, I mean they 404 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.079 talk about Brad and his issues quite a bit. But 405 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:38.359 it's cool seeing well, yes, is not cool. Sorry, it's 406 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:43.640 interesting seeing Buddy have this like psychotic break due to 407 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.000 the trauma Brad inflicted on her. I almost said, Blad, sorry, 408 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:51.440 what the trauma that Brad inflicted on her? And then 409 00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:54.640 going back to the first you know, the trauma of 410 00:22:54.839 --> 00:23:00.359 Lisa's situation on Brad and so forth, without blathering even further. Yeah, 411 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:02.759 the second idea, I like that idea so much more. 412 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:05.960 No, man, you're not blathering either. You're not blathering where 413 00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:09.000 we both are either way. That's that's why we're here, 414 00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:11.799 you know. Yeah, I'm glad that you said that though, 415 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.680 because well one, because as you were speaking, literally as 416 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:16.880 soon as I was done, I was like, you know, 417 00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:18.160 it doesn't have to be one or the other. I 418 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:22.240 think it's I think it's both. But you are right 419 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:27.119 to call out that cycle. This trilogy largely highlights this 420 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:32.279 cyclical idea. I am not going to say familial trauma 421 00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:35.559 or generational trauma, because that's become, you know, one of 422 00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:39.519 those sexy Internet buzz phrases, but it is that it's 423 00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:46.319 highlighting the insidious cycle that these sorts of well, yes, traumas, 424 00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:51.240 these sorts of abuses, these psychic assaults onto young people 425 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:56.519 from trusted adults, from trusted authority figures in their close 426 00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:00.640 knit community, whether familiar or not. It highlights the way 427 00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:04.759 that this is not only damaging and degrading corrosive to 428 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:10.960 the victims, but also how they sort of unintentionally and 429 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:15.240 internalize it against their will and learn to pass it down. 430 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:17.960 It's a learned behavior, this cycle, and that's what makes 431 00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:20.920 it so pernicious, is that you're taught to pass it down, 432 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:24.240 that just becomes the norm, and even if you realize it, 433 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.839 there's a part of you that just will not get 434 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:29.920 rid of it, and it continues, this destructive cycle. And 435 00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:33.400 it's exactly as you said, Erin you see Brad passing 436 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:37.799 down exactly what he saw with Marty and Lisa to Buddy. 437 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:40.279 He passes down his own stuff mixed with of course 438 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:43.799 his own troubles too, and then we see the buddy 439 00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:48.839 taking the role and kind of becoming a twisted variation 440 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.240 of Brad. It just keeps happening, and that's what's so 441 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.880 destructive about these things. They tend to have that kind 442 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:01.440 of perpetual motion and and you know, if there were 443 00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:03.559 an easy way to stop it, then several fields of 444 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:05.960 mental health would just be out of out of work 445 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:08.680 because it's it's one of it's one of those problems 446 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:11.200 that we're going to deal with forever as people, and 447 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.599 there's there's not an answer. You know, no YouTube Macho 448 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.400 man is going to teach you how to be stoic 449 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:19.440 and control your feelings. No amount of self help books, 450 00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:21.640 Get Rich Quick, Dad, or what the hell ever is 451 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:24.039 going to teach you how to overcome this with you know, 452 00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:26.279 grit and determination. This is just part of being a 453 00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:29.680 human and shit like this happens, and it's awful and 454 00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:33.720 it sucks, but it's it is what it is. And 455 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:37.039 I love when fiction shows it depicts it in this way, 456 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:39.799 not of a

what if it were better, more of 457 00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:43.279 a this is how it is? What if it were worse? 458 00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:46.400 Kind of deal. I don't know, I I'm I'm really 459 00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:49.680 into that kind of thing. Yeah, now, now who's blathering buddy? 460 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:51.519 Now who now? Who's tarness it? 461 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.400 Maybe this isn't the fairest comparison, but sometimes I compare 462 00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.599 this game story to that of Berserk. Again, not at 463 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.640 all a fair comparison, because Berserk is super duper different. 464 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:07.920 But you know that story was this perfect cycle a cycle. 465 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:10.400 It's perfect like string of events that led to this 466 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:12.720 and then you know this happened, and then this happens, 467 00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:16.359 which is pretty much what happens in this series. You know, 468 00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:19.680 this happens, and then that happens in painful and then bam, 469 00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:23.200 that happens and joyful. I love that kind of stuff 470 00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:25.440 so much. I love it so much more than just 471 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:31.240 I guess, like not nonsensical necessarily, but like a complex 472 00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:35.200 like you know, dream exploring or whatever the hell happens 473 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:37.519 and in Kingdom Hearts. Not that that's a bad thing. 474 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:39.640 I'm just saying that's what I love. That's the shit 475 00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:40.240 that I love. 476 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.920 That phrase quote, whatever the hell happens in Kingdom Hearts 477 00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:45.680 just activated a lot of people. 478 00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:48.880 I'm sorry, a lot of people. 479 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.599 I do not get it, and you know what, not 480 00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:54.359 to get too off topic either, and she's tay, there's 481 00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:56.480 a drinking game out there for every time I say that, 482 00:26:56.519 --> 00:27:00.279 I swear. But Brazerk is on my on my short 483 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:02.480 list of things to watch. I've got into anime in 484 00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:04.640 a really big way lately. Like I've always liked anime, 485 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:08.000 don't get me wrong, but I'm actively watching right now, 486 00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:11.880 like four different, four different animes, just a little by 487 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:14.920 little Berserk. As Berzerk is on my watch list, I think, 488 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:17.079 what what are There are a few? There are a 489 00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:20.400 few that I have like queued up where once I've finished, 490 00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:24.519 I'm gonna start another Berserk's one freer INDs another Bochie 491 00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:28.960 the Rock is on there. Ooh, and then there's one 492 00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:31.240 more that I can't remember the name. I just thought 493 00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:33.359 it looked cool. I think it deals with one of 494 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.200 those like high school delinked went girl archetypes, you know. 495 00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:41.680 Oh okay, yeah, brazerc is Uh. It's a hard one 496 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:44.799 to recommend because there's eighty different adaptations of it. But 497 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.519 there's a series of movies that pretty much redo the 498 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.599 whole ninety one anime into you know, three movies, and 499 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:56.240 they streamline it and make it more I guess streamlined. 500 00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:59.839 They streamline a way more and then the twenty sixteen anime. 501 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.799 Don't listen to people, It's not that bad. It's like, 502 00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:06.160 the story is good. It's just the three D animation. 503 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:09.759 It's just wonky and weird. But yeah, it's a good watch. 504 00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:27.680 Step Step Step step. 505 00:28:31.640 --> 00:28:34.480 While we're still on the topic of the game's history 506 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:39.559 and its ideas, one of the quotes on the Kickstarter 507 00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:41.759 page for the original Lisa, which by the way, you 508 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.519 can still view. It's still up. Lisa the Joyful was 509 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:48.799 a Kickstarter goal. It was the first stretch goal was 510 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.200 then unnamed, but I think it was like ten thousand dollars. 511 00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:55.799 If that were reached then Joyful would be would would 512 00:28:55.839 --> 00:28:59.160 begin development. But here's what Jorgensen says on the Kickstarter 513 00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:03.000 page about his design philosophy. He says, quote, I want 514 00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:05.200 the world of Lisa to be hard on the player. 515 00:29:05.720 --> 00:29:08.000 I hate playing a game knowing that if I make 516 00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:11.079 a choice, it has to be the one excuse me, 517 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:13.079 it has to be the one I know the game 518 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:16.599 wants me to do, or the safe option, or the 519 00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:19.160 one that leads to the good ending. The choices you 520 00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:22.119 make will change the core mechanics of the game. Lisa 521 00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:25.359 that is, it's not just superficial. I want the player 522 00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:28.039 to really have to make sacrifices and for the game 523 00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:31.480 to affect the interior core of your experience. I want 524 00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:34.240 to really push the player into a corner, force you 525 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:36.400 to do things you aren't sure of doing. And I 526 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:39.160 don't just mean morally. I'm sick of playing as

the hero. 527 00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.200 TV and film are stepping in up narratively, games should 528 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:44.279 be doing the same, plus some I want to help 529 00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:47.400 contribute to the innovation of storytelling and video games. And 530 00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:50.119 then he goes on, this is pitching why you should 531 00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:53.839 give him money, which, in retrospect, yes we should have. 532 00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:56.799 What do you think of that man? What do you 533 00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.799 think of his idea that design philosophy, the idea of 534 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.119 playing the hero. Do you think that's gotten better since 535 00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:04.960 he wrote that? Probably? I don't know. That was probably 536 00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.240 in twenty twelve or twenty thirteen. Do you think games 537 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:08.200 have gotten better about that? 538 00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:12.240 I think so. I think yeah, what I think there's 539 00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:14.400 I'm trying to come up with a few examples in 540 00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.559 my head that do it. BioShock Infinite that was a 541 00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:20.680 really good one that took the idea of this hero 542 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:24.240 going to rescue some chick and then you know who. 543 00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:27.440 That's the end. They really that game took everything you 544 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:29.880 thought you knew about, you know, the hero saving the girl, 545 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:32.519 ending the story kind of thing, flipped it on its 546 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:36.960 head and then some Yeah, I really I like that idea. 547 00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:40.839 I like that TV and film stepping it up narratively. 548 00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:45.960 Games absolutely should be doing the same thing. It's games 549 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:48.920 are a lot more complex than they were, you know, 550 00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:52.119 in the eighties and nineties, where it's just like Dragon Quest, 551 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:57.079 Dragon Hero Save Dragon King, Dragon Dead, Wooo Hero. There's 552 00:30:57.799 --> 00:30:59.759 so much that we can do with games that I 553 00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:03.519 think think he absolutely nailed what he wanted to do 554 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:06.759 with The Painful in terms of all the sacrifices you 555 00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:10.720 make and then the choices you make Brian at the end, Yeah, 556 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:12.079 I love that idea. 557 00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:14.200 I want to put a pin in that idea of 558 00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.880 painful and its sacrifices. That's something that I am a 559 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:19.799 thousand percent sure you and I are going to talk 560 00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:23.200 about once we get into what happens and joyful. I 561 00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:25.960 agree with you. I don't know. Infinite is not the 562 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:28.240 example that I immediately think of. I always think of 563 00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:29.720 the Last of Us in particular. 564 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:31.119 That's a perfect one. 565 00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.000 Okay, yeah, dude, right, I mean and hey, in particular 566 00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:36.839 the Last of Us Part two. Don't get me wrong, 567 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.279 I h ooh, this is tough. I don't want to 568 00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:43.359 say anything definitively, but right in this moment on March 569 00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:46.720 twenty eighth, Sunday, at eleven fifty eight am Eastern time, 570 00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:49.240 I think the Last of Us Part one is a 571 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:52.519 better package overall. But I think Part two is more interesting, 572 00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.279 and I think the narrative, I think the way the 573 00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:59.839 characters are written narratively can be at times a little 574 00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:03.720 bit more interesting. And those two games are both masterful 575 00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:06.000 one and two at dealing with this idea of what 576 00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:09.799 it means to what it means to be the protagonist 577 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.720 is protagonist the quote good guy capital g capital g GG, 578 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:18.119 good guys. It's over. I don't think so. I don't 579 00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:22.720 think anybody thinks that really anymore, That protagonist equals good guys. 580 00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.160 A bit of a like sophomoric way of thinking about it. 581 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:27.240 Easy enough to explain to somebody like what it is. 582 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:31.279 But I don't know. I again, see you blather once, 583 00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:35.920 I blather a million times. Neither of us are blathering. 584 00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:38.519 People are here for it. There is somebody I discorded, 585 00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:41.000 I can't I can't remember who they were, Like, stop 586 00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:43.359 saying that, that's why I'm listening to your podcast. And 587 00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:46.079 I was like, yeah, I don't know, man, Like you 588 00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:48.880 could buy a microphone too, Like nobody's stopping you. Anybody 589 00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:52.440 could just do it, you know, I don't know. It's 590 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:54.359 it's all in good fun. And if you're listening whoever 591 00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:57.720 said that, I'm sorry for forgetting you, but you're appreciated 592 00:32:58.079 --> 00:32:58.640 and I love you. 593 00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:00.839 Very much appreciated. Yeah, we do love you. 594 00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:03.279 Before we move on, I want let's talk about the 595 00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:06.160 art style and how this game presents itself. I would 596 00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:08.039 like to mention this because I think there is a 597 00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:11.440

genuine criticism of the game that I don't subscribe to, 598 00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.480 but I think it exists based on this. In that 599 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:18.200 Stuff Holmes podcast, Austin talks a little bit about this. 600 00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:23.000 A large part of the design, the philosophical design, the 601 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:27.440 philosophical design, philosophy, listen to me, A large part of 602 00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:32.440 how this game was designed. From a philosophical narrative standpoint, 603 00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:37.160 There we go, them's the words? Was it sort of 604 00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:40.559 bloomed out of That's maybe an ironic choice of verb 605 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:45.319 of a previous relationship that Jorgensen was in. He was 606 00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:47.640 dating this girl. They broke up. It was not a 607 00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:50.920 great relationship, and he had said that several times within 608 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:56.319 their relationship, her relationship with her own father came into 609 00:33:56.400 --> 00:34:01.839 theirs and caused varying degrees of friction. And I do want, 610 00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:03.920 I do want to be quick to say, he does 611 00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:06.960 point out very quickly and very frankly, that it wasn't 612 00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.599 a situation where you know, oh, you know, I'm gonna 613 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:11.840 make a game about you, because you know you can 614 00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:14.559 get over your stuff. He said something to the effect 615 00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.760 that it was more like it hit him that sometimes 616 00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:22.000 in life things happen to other people, horrible things, and 617 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:24.679 that's it's terrible, and there's just nothing you can do 618 00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:27.559 to change that. That ending is what he said, is 619 00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:29.800 there's nothing I could do to change that. And I 620 00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.000 don't love the way that he phrased that, but I 621 00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:35.840 think you understand what he's saying, right like, there have been, 622 00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:38.440 there have been, or could be horrible things that happened 623 00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:42.039 to me maybe two years from now, and there's nothing you, 624 00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:45.239 Aaron could do to change that. You just have to 625 00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:48.639 sort of accept that it happened. And move forward from that, 626 00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:51.000 and I think that's what Austin's getting at. Does that 627 00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:51.440 make sense? 628 00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:54.599 Oh yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, we've all got baggage. 629 00:34:55.480 --> 00:34:57.960 I yeah, yeah, it makes perfect sense. Man. 630 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:00.760 But here's here's the re and that I think this 631 00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:03.880 could potentially be a good

jumping off point for criticism 632 00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:07.519 and we might get into this, Aaron, I don't know. 633 00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:08.960 I'll sort of leave it up to you whether you 634 00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:13.199 want to talk about this now or wait. But the 635 00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:15.039 reason that I think that could be a point of 636 00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:20.480 contention for some is because Lisa, as she's characterized in 637 00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:24.320 the first is a victim. There's no two ways about it. 638 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:28.039 She was a victim of a horrible, morally reprehensive crime. 639 00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:30.239 That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of what 640 00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:32.920 that means. I mean, she was the victim of abuse 641 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:37.920 from her father. However, she is also characterized specifically and 642 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:43.159 Joyful as not being a good person. She Lisa manipulated people, 643 00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:49.280 she used them for her own gain. She effectively, as 644 00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:54.239 it's characterized and Joyful, is responsible for, at the very 645 00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:58.440 least Buzzo's misery. You could also say Brad's misery. Although 646 00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:01.960 I don't personally analyze it that way, At the very least, 647 00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:08.440 she manipulated Buzzo and used him pretty explicitly. She's characterized 648 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:10.239 as a bad person, and I think some people could 649 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:13.679 see that and say that that's a really disingenuous, unkind 650 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:17.960 way to characterize victims of abuse. I don't know, is 651 00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:19.639 that something you want to wait until we get into 652 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:21.119 the story to talk about Aaron? 653 00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:25.280 I mean we could, well, maybe we should. 654 00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:31.039 Yeah, okay, okay, I think that makes sense. All We'll 655 00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:33.920 leave you with this. I think there are good reads 656 00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:36.199 on both sides. I hate to be that guy. Both 657 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:40.639 sides are right, both sides are equally bad. Vote from now. 658 00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:45.760 But but no, I think there are. It's a good conversation. 659 00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:50.800 The danger here is twofold. Of course, care must be 660 00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:54.519 taken and intentionality best to be had when using depictions 661 00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:57.480 like this. It does nobody and nothing any good to 662 00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:00.880 use fiction to reflect the insidious vie horrors of the 663 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:05.000 world that happen to real people irresponsibly. I would argue 664 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:07.599 the same of over delicacy, though what I see as 665 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:11.440 a sort of infantilizing of those who experience these hardships 666 00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:14.840 and traumas. As I said, it comes from a good place. 667 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.519 We want to care for those who have been victim 668 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.239 to grave injustices. We don't want to depict these with 669 00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:24.679 want and disregard. We want to care for these people, 670 00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:28.920 make sure that they're seen and treated fairly and kindly. 671 00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:33.519 But there's a disrespect and an almost dehumanization that I 672 00:37:33.639 --> 00:37:36.760 see as being implicit when treating a character as a 673 00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:40.920 vehicle for and victim to these crimes, rather than an 674 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.800 autonomous agent first that has experienced them. And this can 675 00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:50.199 happen sometimes when we're too delicate about the trauma. It 676 00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.159 can become the defining trait. It can become what makes 677 00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:58.280 that character, that character, that person, That person becomes who 678 00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:01.760 they are. And while I I have reticence in speaking 679 00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:05.119 on this, quite frankly, I imagine that those who have 680 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:08.039 been here might see this as a reflection that's all 681 00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:12.159 too sinister, the reflection of the self in its entirety. 682 00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:14.280 Imagine how that feels. 683 00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:15.800 Now. 684 00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:19.360 Obviously, this topic deserves far more than a podcast post 685 00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:21.920 edit blurb, and I hope I've built enough of a 686 00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:24.960 reputation with my audience to show that I don't dismiss 687 00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:28.000 this out of a blithe desire to quote. Get back 688 00:38:28.119 --> 00:38:32.159 to the game. Rather, it's far too thorny and important 689 00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:36.760 to half asset. I'll leave off here with this. There 690 00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:41.320 is danger in handling these characters with both insucian to disregard, 691 00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:47.280 as well as the fragility of brittle Glass Buddy being 692 00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:50.239 shown to be more than just her former trauma by 693 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:53.840 being first and foremost a person with malicious flaws. It 694 00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:56.840 makes her a stronger character in the fiction, and I 695 00:38:56.920 --> 00:39:02.320 think a better, more realistic interpretation as ever, of course, 696 00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:05.480 please let me know if I'm off base here. One 697 00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:08.079 of my favorite things about this show is learning from 698 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.920 my audience, hanging that back in kind as best as 699 00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:14.880 I can, and together we all become more learned, more

empathetic, 700 00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:18.239 and better human souls for it. We all lift each 701 00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:22.119 other up. That's what this is all about. Let's talk 702 00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:24.280 about the art style. What do you think about how this. 703 00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:28.239 Game looks exactly the same as Painful? Just kidding. I 704 00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:32.000 think it looks, you though, I mean kind of sort of. 705 00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:34.480 I mean, I wish there was a little bore they 706 00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:37.360 could have done to make it stand out from the Painful, 707 00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:38.960 But I mean, at the same time, it's still the 708 00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:42.239 same world. It's kind of the same characters. I wish 709 00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:46.079 they had done a little more to make the world 710 00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:50.119 feel like you were experiencing it from Buddy's point of view, 711 00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:53.039 which I mean you do, but kind of don't. I mean, 712 00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:55.679 let's not to say that I don't like the art style. 713 00:39:55.880 --> 00:39:58.760 I think it's really charming and fun. It's got this 714 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:04.239 like colorful yet kind of dull as hell at times 715 00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:08.280 type art style that yeah, you can definitely see they 716 00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:11.440 took a lot of inspiration from from Earthbound kind of ish, 717 00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:14.119 because that had a different viewpoint. But that's that's a 718 00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:17.239 different discussion. I like the art style. I just wish 719 00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:20.280 they would have done a little bit more tweaking for 720 00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:22.960 Joyful to make it stand out, just, you know, just 721 00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:23.679 a little bit more. 722 00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:28.280 Hmm. I'm curious, and I'm calling this out specifically because 723 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:30.880 you mentioned it. It's it sounds like you don't think 724 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:35.559 that Joyful distinguished itself enough or differentiated itself enough from Painful. 725 00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:39.639 I'm wondering, do you is there a part of you 726 00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:44.320 that would feel that wouldn't feel that way if some 727 00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:47.840 more of the absolute weirdos were in this game, like 728 00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:52.280 in Painful or the Capital f U G fucked up guys, 729 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:55.760 because they're notably, there are very few of them. In 730 00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:59.679 Lisa the Joyful, there are very very few. Do you 731 00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:01.480 do you think if there were more of those guys 732 00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:05.360 that you would feel stronger about Joyful's presentation. I don't know. 733 00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:10.239 Possibly, I mean, well, spoiler ish, I mean, Brad pretty 734 00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:12.679 much murders all the goofy guys like at the end. 735 00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:16.800 Well not maybe not all of them, but man, maybe, 736 00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:19.159 I mean there are some goofy little one liners here 737 00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:22.360 and there that you get from enemies that die or something. 738 00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:26.199 But I loved playing the game from Buddy's point of view, 739 00:41:26.360 --> 00:41:28.519 and I mean you do get little like snippets of 740 00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:31.320 what's going on in her mind, you know, her breaking 741 00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:34.800 down mentally, and I mean, I guess it is just 742 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:38.199 a little bit different from The Painful. But I don't 743 00:41:38.199 --> 00:41:40.320 know if the if the little goof dudes maybe would 744 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:42.400 have made a huge difference or not, because I mean, 745 00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:45.800 this is Buddy. She doesn't trust men, she doesn't trust 746 00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:50.920 anybody other than Rando. But it's tough, man. I yeah, 747 00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:52.199 I'm not sure. 748 00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:55.000 I guess I actually do feel kind of strongly about that. 749 00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:56.960 I think that is you know, we spend a lot 750 00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:00.800 of time so far talking about the darker aspects of 751 00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:02.960 this game, and that's a huge part of what makes 752 00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:06.679 this game so special. But we're also neglecting all of 753 00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:10.800 the goofy, fucked up shit that happens in this game, 754 00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:13.079 and the way that these weird fucking guys with giant 755 00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:16.960 nipples are presented named Gary the Soup and or like 756 00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:20.880 my favorite gag in this is such a stupid gag. 757 00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:22.800 It gets me every time though, literally I laugh out 758 00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:26.360 loud every time and painful. You find this guy just 759 00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:27.840 standing by the corner of a cliff and you talk 760 00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:29.639 to him, and he goes, halla, halla, if you hear me, 761 00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:31.679 and then he just stops and he goes, really need 762 00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:33.119 to get that off my chest, and then he just 763 00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:38.719 fucking dies. Like none of that stuff is enjoyful, none 764 00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:40.920 of it. And I think it's because I'm wondering if 765 00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:44.920 it's not. Because we're seeing the world through Buddy's perspective 766 00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:48.599 and she, I don't know, she just has such a 767 00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:51.800 starkly different worldview than Brad. But at the same time, 768 00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:54.599 it's not like Brad had a goofy, happy, go lucky 769 00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:58.280 worldview either. He was a

depressed, alcoholic drug addict and 770 00:42:58.400 --> 00:42:59.480 also bald. 771 00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:01.159 And and me. 772 00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:03.280 I'm all of those and going through puberty. No, I'm 773 00:43:03.320 --> 00:43:05.159 just kidding. I am going through puberty though, as you 774 00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:08.639 just heard. But I don't know, man, Like I think 775 00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:11.079 back to Painful, that guy, I think back to Harvey Fishman, 776 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:14.320 the fish lawyer that uses a Tommy gun and takes 777 00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:16.800 you to fish Court and tells the lawyer that that 778 00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:18.559 tells the judge that you're sleeping with his life and 779 00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:20.639 then says, your honor, my client is dumb as hell. 780 00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:21.840 You don't get any of that stuff. 781 00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:25.519 Enjoyful man, You're not even Farty Hernandez with his truck 782 00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:30.159 attacks and he's so sad all the time, you know what. 783 00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:34.159 Speaking of Farty and Lardy and Cardi, the Hernandez triplets, 784 00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:37.840 you do get one of them in here, as as 785 00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:40.079 one of the list bosses that we'll talk on. But 786 00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:45.480 the contrast between Painful is that, yes, he looks goofy, 787 00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:48.800 he's he's a guy with with tig ole Bitti's just 788 00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:54.519 sitting there nude, hanging out dual wielding gigantic submachine guns, 789 00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:57.840 which is hysterical, and he looks funny, but it's not 790 00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:00.280 funny because Buddy just walks in he's and she goes, 791 00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:04.079 are you lardie, And when he says yes, she goes okay, 792 00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:06.760 and then the slaughter begins. You could argue that that's 793 00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:11.119 just part of Joyful's identity, that the whole thing is 794 00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:14.039 just a farce. I'm not a farce. The whole thing 795 00:44:14.119 --> 00:44:17.039 is is just named ironically because it's anything. But at 796 00:44:17.079 --> 00:44:20.079 the same time, I don't know. This is like Earthbound. 797 00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:22.719 A lot of what makes it so special is how 798 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:25.320 goofy it is and how that plays with how how 799 00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:31.199 horrendously sad it can be. And I don't know, man, 800 00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:33.199 Like take it feels like he took out one of 801 00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:35.760 the secret ingredients of a stew and now the stew 802 00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:37.440 is just like pretty. 803 00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:41.920 Good, just pretty good. Yeah, it's it's real tough to say. 804 00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:44.519 I have a real answer for it. Man, It's tough 805 00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:47.480 because like if the goofy little bits

were in there, 806 00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.119 like if you did have farty Hernandez in there crying 807 00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:53.960 constantly or uh, oh, what the hell isn't I can't 808 00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:55.639 think of his name right now, But yeah, if you 809 00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:57.639 did have the little goofy bits in there, it would 810 00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:00.519 be cut super duper short, because buddy, it was just 811 00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:04.440 all about killing everything, like just just wanting to be 812 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:07.000 the queen of the land or whatever it u. I 813 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:10.199 guess maybe that's maybe that is joyfuls. Maybe that is 814 00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:15.440 Joyful's identity is it's the no nonsense, kick ass first, 815 00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:20.480 take names later game compared to Painful, Right, maybe. 816 00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:24.840 Yeah, yeah, you might have a point. Perhaps if if 817 00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:26.719 they added too much of that goofiness back in, it 818 00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:29.119 would kind of undercut what Joyful is trying to be. 819 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:33.280 I don't know, I don't know. It's now I kind 820 00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:35.559 of feel like thematically worth standing on a cliff, like 821 00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:38.039 like Anglisa series, and if we take a step in 822 00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:39.840 either direction, we're gonna fall and get a game over 823 00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:40.639 and get pissed off. 824 00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:46.519 I'm kind of kind of almost ish trying to compare 825 00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:50.880 Joyful to Mother three in how there was less goofs 826 00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:54.320 th Mother three and more like heartbreak and everything. It 827 00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:57.119 went right to the right to the fields at pretty 828 00:45:57.199 --> 00:45:59.880 much every chance it could. But at the same time, 829 00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:03.119 I still managed to be goofy here and there. But yeah, 830 00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:05.920 and that still made it stand out. But yeah, maybe 831 00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:07.880 maybe it could have had a couple more goofs, just 832 00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:11.760 a little little something because whenever you come across a 833 00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.239 wall that has poop written in blood on it. That 834 00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:16.119 gets me every single time. And there were like one 835 00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:18.880 or two of those, and joyful, I love that were there. 836 00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:20.239 I don't remember any. 837 00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:23.239 There was at least one, I think going to uh 838 00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:30.599 the Peace Clan place, the Pacifist Clan up, Peace Clan, Gosh, Pacifist. 839 00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:35.119 Yeah, the mister beautiful and his folks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 840 00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:39.239 I believe you. I don't remember it, but but I 841 00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:41.599 believe you. You wouldn't lie to me. I trust you. 842 00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:42.880 No, I would never lie to you. 843 00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:46.960 Rick, I trust you. Randa, Oh shit. As far as 844 00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:50.719 the rest of the presentation goes, I mean, I personally 845 00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:52.400 don't have a lot more to say about it that 846 00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:56.480 I didn't already say in the Painful episode. If I 847 00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:58.559 think of something that I add in post, you'll hear 848 00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:00.519 that sound effect and I'll add it here. But otherwise, 849 00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:03.480 I mean, if you have any more to say about it, 850 00:47:03.599 --> 00:47:05.239 or anything else you want to talk about in terms 851 00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:07.920 of how the game looks, by all means, otherwise we 852 00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:09.760 can talk a little bit about the mechanics. 853 00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:13.119 That's it for me. Let's go all right, all right, let's. 854 00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:15.360 Throw down some button combinations and quick time events and 855 00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:39.199 talk about playing at least of the joyful. All right, 856 00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:44.639 I'm gonna establish a theme with myself here again. It's 857 00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:48.320 just so fundamentally different from painful, and I think that 858 00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:51.159 might be intentional due to Buddy's characterization, especially now after 859 00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:54.119 you and I have talked about this, which, by the way, 860 00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.400 like I know, I know, I'm already making this episode 861 00:47:56.440 --> 00:47:58.000 really long in the tooth, but I mean, I think 862 00:47:58.000 --> 00:47:59.599 that's kind of good. I like when these I like 863 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:03.199 when when these conversations can be organic and not like 864 00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:06.480 planned out, you know, like the listeners can't see but 865 00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:09.039 Aaron and I are looking at like a big note 866 00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:13.159 document that I took and like, I don't want to 867 00:48:13.239 --> 00:48:16.079 live on this thing, you know. So I like when 868 00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:20.239 it can do this. But maybe it is thematically appropriate. However, 869 00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:24.800 what made the first game very cool is that the 870 00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:29.599 battle system was very hostile towards you. Nobody was very strong. 871 00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:32.840 If anything, the enemies tended to be a little stronger 872 00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:35.599 than you. You had a lot of different varied party 873 00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.079 members with varied abilities. You had a drunk guy that 874 00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:42.440 didn't release, a drunk hobo that didn't talk a whole lot, 875 00:48:42.519 --> 00:48:45.880 and just vomited and through gasoline and

stuff like that. 876 00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:48.440 You have a fish lawyer with guns. You did have 877 00:48:48.519 --> 00:48:51.119 a couple of characters that were extremely strong, like the 878 00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:54.360 guy and the Tiger Mask that just ripped ass. But 879 00:48:55.639 --> 00:49:00.719 here it's just Buddy. And actually we talked about the 880 00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:03.320 Last of Us. This game kind of has the Last 881 00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:06.519 of Us Part two syndrome to me in that, just 882 00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:10.239 like Ellie kind of felt way too powerful for that universe, 883 00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:13.440 for that fiction, Buddy is just a tank like she 884 00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:18.360 she is top dog. She can kill anyone in anything. 885 00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:22.360 And despite being nine years old, ten, ten to fourteen 886 00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.440 years old or something, going up against these ripped dudes 887 00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:26.400 like Pig Lincoln. 888 00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:30.599 You joking, but do you know what I mean? Did 889 00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:32.679 you feel that way too? I felt like she was 890 00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:37.159 just so powerful that it felt more. Oh, I can 891 00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:38.880 argue with myself on this. It felt more like a 892 00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:41.639 power fantasy. And maybe it was from her point of view, 893 00:49:41.679 --> 00:49:43.760 but me as the player, I just felt like, Man, 894 00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:47.360 I'm so strong, I'm so cool and powerful. I just 895 00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:50.599 I didn't feel like this was Lisa. It just felt 896 00:49:50.679 --> 00:49:52.239 like felt like an RPG. 897 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:55.280 I don't know, Yeah, I kind of feel that too. 898 00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:58.559 Man again, Yeah, she's just this ten year old kid, 899 00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:02.559 and she's going up against these grown ass like what 900 00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:05.960 thirty to forty to fifty year old men and just 901 00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:10.159 annihilating them, like cutting them to bits, which I mean, 902 00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:12.559 I guess if my five year old came up to 903 00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:14.440 me with a knife and started going to town, I 904 00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:19.199 probably die too. But that's not a fair comparison. Really, Yeah, 905 00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:22.400 it I definitely feel the same way with you about this. 906 00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:25.639 Compared to the last of Us part two, it just 907 00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:29.039 feels I don't want to say fictional because it's fictional, 908 00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:32.960 but like and not like unrealistic because it's definitely not really. 909 00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:34.920 I don't know, I don't know how to explain it it. Yeah, 910 00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:36.000 I agree with you, man. 911 00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:38.719 Yeah, no, no, I know what you're saying. It sounds 912 00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:41.119 like we're saying the same thing that it's just it's 913 00:50:41.159 --> 00:50:45.000 a little dissonant with the world that painful set up 914 00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:48.079 and painful sets up the world so deftly and with 915 00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:51.119 such confidence that now we come in as buddy and 916 00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:55.119 we're just you know, kicking ass, taking names, actually literally 917 00:50:55.239 --> 00:50:59.920 taking names. That was pretty funny. Yeah, yeah, it's not 918 00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:04.519 that it's not fun, it's just a little unsatisfying. 919 00:51:04.679 --> 00:51:07.719 Yeah, and I mean part of what I loved about 920 00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:12.639 Painful was recruiting these new characters and kind of learning 921 00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:15.079 how they play. You know, they'll learn new abilities and 922 00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:17.239 you'll go, oh, that's cool, all right, maybe I'll work 923 00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:20.719 that into my repertoire. And then because like one of 924 00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:25.719 my favorite dudes ever, what is his name, like ralsitt Or, 925 00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:29.559 Like he's a big, tall guy fingers all the time. Yeah, 926 00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:32.440 I love that guy. He would learn a more powerful 927 00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:37.039 poke every other level or something. I loved him. And 928 00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:39.679 the guy at the diving bell Helmet who just played 929 00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:42.519 his guitar and his songs can inflict like bleed and 930 00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:46.280 just kill your party whatever. Yeah, and Joyful it's literally 931 00:51:46.519 --> 00:51:50.559 just buddy cutting dudes down. And what's really weird is 932 00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:53.800 like not weird, but like so in Painful, you know, 933 00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:57.199 you go up against a giganta group of enemies. You're struggling, 934 00:51:57.559 --> 00:52:01.159 like no matter how strong your party is, but going 935 00:52:01.239 --> 00:52:03.679 up against a big group of guys, you're gonna struggle 936 00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:06.159 a little bit. You're gonna have to plan carefully and 937 00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:09.599 think that shit out. But with Joyful, I mean there's 938 00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:11.639 a couple of times where you fight gigantic groups and 939 00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:15.519 you just just anihilate them, you know, just use your 940 00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:18.519 flash ability once and then bought a boom, throw out 941 00:52:18.519 --> 00:52:21.559 a poison bomb, and then yeah, go to town. 942 00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:25.559 I just want to clarify that's part of like the 943 00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:28.880 sick humor of this game that makes me love it. 944 00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:32.239 As you said, Buddy as a child, she is also 945 00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:37.119 the only woman in existence here, so flash I mean 946 00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:40.280

she literally what it does. I mean, she flashes them, 947 00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:44.440 and it gives them the status effect of flustered, because 948 00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:48.159 you know, they're all creepy, sad, lonely old men yep, 949 00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:51.559 which also and I mean that is also thematically appropriate. 950 00:52:51.639 --> 00:52:55.079 Buddy uses her status and position in the world to 951 00:52:55.159 --> 00:52:57.760 her advantage. But at any rate, you had mentioned difficulty, 952 00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:00.639 I'm really glad that you did. Did you feel like 953 00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:03.360 this game was difficult from a gameplay perspective? 954 00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:06.599 Not really, man, now that I'm thinking about it, the 955 00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:10.039 only boss I really struggled against was Big Lincoln, and 956 00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:13.039 I'm pretty sure he's just like he sent he sent 957 00:53:13.159 --> 00:53:17.679 me to hell, And he was not necessarily the last boss, 958 00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:21.559 but maybe like the the third to last boss kind 959 00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:24.079 of if you want to call the last few bosses bosses, 960 00:53:24.199 --> 00:53:28.519 because I mean, yeah, the game definitely felt with the 961 00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:32.599 exclusion again of Big Lincoln, the game felt pretty freaking 962 00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:35.639 easy considering you're playing as a ten year old girl 963 00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:41.199 with a machete. Because yeah, yeah, Painful was a lot 964 00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:44.000 more unforgiving than this game was, that's for sure. 965 00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:46.800 So I agree with you completely. I also thought it 966 00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:49.079 was really easy. And I don't know if you look 967 00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:54.280 this up too, but you played the definitive edition, right, yes, yeah, okay, 968 00:53:54.840 --> 00:53:58.000 So the way this works now is if you don't 969 00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:01.480 already own Lisa, you can only get the definitive edition, 970 00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:04.840 unless you know you can legally only get the Definitive Edition, 971 00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:07.480 I should say, but if you owned, like if you 972 00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:10.480 bought this on Steam prior to that being released, you 973 00:54:10.719 --> 00:54:14.480 still have the choice to play the originals. So I 974 00:54:14.559 --> 00:54:18.719 played the original Joyful. But here's the thing. I also 975 00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:21.239 thought that it was extremely easy, despite reading a lot 976 00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:25.079 of reports online just from Reddit and stuff that you know, 977 00:54:25.159 --> 00:54:27.199 the original is so much harder, it's so much harder, 978 00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:29.519 blah blah blah. I don't know if that's true. Maybe 979 00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:32.519 it got patched and they just didn't say anything about it. 980 00:54:32.679 -->

00:54:36.880 I don't know. However, there is an in game item 981 00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:39.639 that you can use to make battles much much easier. 982 00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:41.719 And this was in Painful as well. It is the 983 00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:44.559 in game drug called joy. Do you want to talk 984 00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:46.039 about joy or do you want me to explain it? 985 00:54:46.519 --> 00:54:47.679 I know a little bit about it. I don't know 986 00:54:47.679 --> 00:54:50.119 how it's made, but I know that joy is just 987 00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:54.360 just like in Painful, Yeah, it makes you fucking no. 988 00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:56.320 I never actually used it in Joyful, so maybe you 989 00:54:56.360 --> 00:54:57.079 should explain it. 990 00:54:57.719 --> 00:54:59.880 Oh that's actually really good to know. I'm glad that 991 00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:03.559 said that Joyful is an in game drug. It is 992 00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:05.719 kind of the drug of all drugs. 993 00:55:06.280 --> 00:55:09.039 You take it and you feel nothing. 994 00:55:09.679 --> 00:55:12.199 Yes, it doesn't make you feel good. You feel nothing. 995 00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:15.760 And that's something that speaking of Jorgensen and his tweets, 996 00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:17.679 somebody had ask him that once on Twitter I think, 997 00:55:18.440 --> 00:55:20.039 or maybe it was the AMA I don't know, but 998 00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:22.239 they were like, yeah, what does joy taste like? 999 00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:23.400 You know? Is it good? 1000 00:55:23.559 --> 00:55:26.440 Is that part of why people? And He's like, nobody 1001 00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:30.960 knows because the effects overwhelmed the taste. You don't even 1002 00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:34.800 register it. So it's one of those things. And in 1003 00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:36.599 game you can use it as an item. And what 1004 00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:39.719 it does in Joyful is it completely heals you one 1005 00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:43.840 hundred percent health and it makes you really overpowered. You 1006 00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:47.719 get a strength boost, you get your hits krit all 1007 00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:52.079 the time. To give you an example, normal Buddy stabs 1008 00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:55.280 somewhere between one to two hundred damage depending on level 1009 00:55:55.320 --> 00:55:58.360 something like that. With Joy, it's always going to be 1010 00:55:58.480 --> 00:56:01.679 like five to seven hundred. If you're doing her special 1011 00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:07.719 abilities and hitting the quick time events perfectly, you're easily 1012 00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:10.320 doing three to five thousand damage every time. 1013 00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:11.800 God damn. 1014 00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:15.239 Yeah yeah, so at whips ass. And here's something that 1015 00:56:15.320 --> 00:56:19.079 I also don't know. I don't know. In the original game, 1016 00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:23.079 you could go into Joy withdrawal, which significantly lowers your 1017 00:56:23.079 --> 00:56:26.400 attack and defense and speed and everything. I don't know 1018 00:56:26.519 --> 00:56:30.960 if Buddy can My buddy got tired a lot, but 1019 00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:34.599 I don't remember if my little buddy she got she 1020 00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:36.960 got tired a lot, but I don't remember if tired 1021 00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:40.639 and Joy withdrawal or distinct status effects. Again, I'll chime 1022 00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:43.599 in if I didn't. So you didn't use Joy at all. 1023 00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:46.519 No, anyone, now that you mentioned it, I know. That's 1024 00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:50.440 one of the big differences between the Definitive Edition and 1025 00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:54.679 the original is the inclusion of the what do they 1026 00:56:54.679 --> 00:56:57.440 call like the list boss abilities you don't have those 1027 00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:00.280 in the definitive edition. Those are no the was are 1028 00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:04.039 exclusive to the definitive edition. Those aren't in the original. 1029 00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:08.400 So like the Flash and the free shipping whatever the 1030 00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:11.719 heck that was called, and the big Lincoln guard that, 1031 00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:14.519 holy shit, it's a good move. I wish I had 1032 00:57:14.679 --> 00:57:15.480 beaten him sooner. 1033 00:57:16.039 --> 00:57:18.039 You do get Flash in the original, I will say that, 1034 00:57:18.920 --> 00:57:21.320 but I also don't want to focus on that move, 1035 00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:25.039 because god damn, I sent to a prison based on 1036 00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:28.480 this episode alone. You are right, the new the definitive 1037 00:57:28.599 --> 00:57:31.320 edition does give you some more strength and some more moves, 1038 00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:33.920 but that's because they also added more difficult fights as well. 1039 00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:36.880 But the reason that I think that that's cool that 1040 00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:39.519 you chose not to and that I chose to basically 1041 00:57:39.960 --> 00:57:42.840 use and abuse it as much as I could, because 1042 00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:45.480 you will never run out of that stuff. You're getting 1043 00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:46.159 it constantly. 1044 00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:47.960 Yes, yep. 1045 00:57:48.199 --> 00:57:51.400 The reason that I'm glad that you didn't is because 1046 00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.960 narratively it plays out the same way that canonically she 1047 00:57:55.079 --> 00:57:57.320 takes it. Anyway, she takes it to the point where 1048 00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:01.480 in this game she is already under going the process 1049 00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:03.920 of turning into a Joy mutant. Like that is just 1050 00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:07.599 a story beat like that that happens. So a lot 1051 00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:12.239 of folks playing this game started to feel that, you know, 1052

00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:15.360 that choice whether or not to take it from painful 1053 00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:19.079 was kind of meaningless here because if you don't take it, 1054 00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:23.159 as you found out Aaron, the game is significantly more difficult, 1055 00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:26.880 even if it's less difficult than painful, same and painful, 1056 00:58:26.920 --> 00:58:28.800 but the difference was in painful. If you don't take it, 1057 00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:33.719 you have the opportunity to recruit Rogiet, you can get 1058 00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:37.400 different story beats, you get different endings here, the endings 1059 00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:40.519 in the epilogues, at least in the original It doesn't matter, 1060 00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:42.800 don't you can take joy, you don't have to. You 1061 00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:45.519 could take it once a hundred times, doesn't matter. It's 1062 00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:46.639 going to play out the same. And a lot of 1063 00:58:46.679 --> 00:58:48.400 folks said that that took away some of the key 1064 00:58:48.760 --> 00:58:52.840 aspects of choice in the narrative. That to be Frank 1065 00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:55.920 Austin himself has said in interviews that that was a 1066 00:58:55.960 --> 00:58:58.880 key part of the game. So that's a pretty big 1067 00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:02.480 criticism that I've seen, and honestly I agree. Now, I 1068 00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:06.400 don't remember the deal with the definitive edition and how 1069 00:59:06.440 --> 00:59:08.280 that works. Do you do you know, did you get 1070 00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:09.920 anything special for not taking joy. 1071 00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:14.719 I don't think so. The ending I got, well, you 1072 00:59:14.800 --> 00:59:17.159 can cut this out if you need to, but it's fine. 1073 00:59:17.199 --> 00:59:17.519 It's fine. 1074 00:59:17.559 --> 00:59:20.119 Yeah. The ending I got was I think I'm pretty 1075 00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:21.840 sure it was just a regular ending because I didn't 1076 00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:25.199 go to the Yauto Lab. I didn't go there's another 1077 00:59:25.239 --> 00:59:27.119 place that you could have gone. But it was basically 1078 00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:31.119 just like like the epilogue was Lisa telling Buzzo to 1079 00:59:31.960 --> 00:59:35.239 cut open an animal or something. And then even before that, 1080 00:59:35.320 --> 00:59:38.519 I got the ending where you see Buddy with the 1081 00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:41.760 brad mutant and like the child, the little child sitting 1082 00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:44.400 over there and you see her sword in the ground, 1083 00:59:44.480 --> 00:59:46.880 and then the camera just slowly goes to the right 1084 00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:49.960 and then it's just boom credits. Okay, that was a 1085 00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:53.280 different one from what you got, or if that had 1086 00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:55.920 anything to do with not taking joy, because if joy 1087 00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:57.599 had no effect on the ending, god damn. 1088 00:59:57.679 --> 01:00:01.880 I So, so both of those ep you mentioned have 1089 01:00:02.079 --> 01:00:04.679 nothing to do with joy. The ending that you mentioned 1090 01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:07.480 with with the that that ending is so fucking sad 1091 01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:11.119 with the cat, Yeah, that that is unrelated. You have 1092 01:00:11.239 --> 01:00:14.599 to visit a certain place. Technically, that's an epilogue. The 1093 01:00:14.800 --> 01:00:17.239 ending is just whether or not you take the vaccine 1094 01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:20.960 that you get at the very end, and you that 1095 01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:23.639 and again that happens no matter what. So you're already 1096 01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:27.880 mutating regardless. So yeah, doesn't you could have taken Joy 1097 01:00:27.880 --> 01:00:29.119 a hundred times and you would have got to the 1098 01:00:29.159 --> 01:00:30.280 same exact place as you did. 1099 01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:31.360 Damn it. 1100 01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:34.880 You're thinking back to all the times Big Lincoln sent 1101 01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:36.039 you to Hell and you're like, son. 1102 01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:38.559 Of a bitch, I am man, Because yeah, it's a 1103 01:00:38.679 --> 01:00:42.199 considerable amount of damage or a considerable difference in the 1104 01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:44.519 amount of damage you do, like when you land. When 1105 01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:47.400 you land those those quick time events, the max will 1106 01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:50.039 do is like two thousand compared to the what five 1107 01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:53.519 or seven thousand you were talking about, Like I I 1108 01:00:53.599 --> 01:00:57.480 thought for sure being a direct Uh what's a direct? 1109 01:00:57.559 --> 01:01:00.800 Uh fa not spin off? Gosh take it direct follow 1110 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:03.320 up to Painful, that Joy, like the taking of Joy 1111 01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:05.119 would make a huge impact on the game. But now 1112 01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:07.800 that it doesn't, that's I bet. 1113 01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:09.440 You're a little pissed off a little bit. 1114 01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:12.760 I still beat it. So whatever, we'll talk. 1115 01:01:12.639 --> 01:01:14.960 A lot about Joy and its implications when we get 1116 01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:17.400 into the story. For now, why don't we talk to 1117 01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:18.159 music and sound? 1118 01:01:18.599 --> 01:01:18.800 Yes? 1119 01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:41.840 OK, so Aaron, sir, forgive me for saying. So this 1120 01:01:42.159 --> 01:01:46.519 soundtrack to me, I would characterize it as, quote, an 1121 01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:49.440 Aaron ass soundtrack. Is that accurate? 1122 01:01:50.079 --> 01:01:53.159 That's pretty accurate. Oh my god? The what's the track 1123 01:01:53.239 --> 01:01:57.079 called for? The Big Lincoln Fight? All American badass and badass?

Yeah, 1124 01:01:57.159 --> 01:01:59.639 oh my god, that track was so good. I got 1125 01:01:59.719 --> 01:02:02.840 it to my playlist and everything. It's it's definitely Aaron 1126 01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:03.199 as hell. 1127 01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:14.880 So you know what? You know what's funny is you 1128 01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:16.920 and I a long time ago on your show did 1129 01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:20.079 a roundtable of video game music and one of the 1130 01:02:20.119 --> 01:02:23.199 pieces that I brought was from Lisa and I talked 1131 01:02:23.239 --> 01:02:24.960 a little bit about why I liked it. I talk 1132 01:02:25.039 --> 01:02:27.920 about this soundtrack all the time. So let's hear it 1133 01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:30.920 from you. What how would you describe this soundtrack? 1134 01:02:31.119 --> 01:02:31.880 What do you like? 1135 01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:34.519 What do you like about it? Would you recommend this 1136 01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:35.119 to people? 1137 01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:36.599 Uh? What? What are you? 1138 01:02:36.800 --> 01:02:37.719 What are your thoughts on it? 1139 01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:41.599 I think it's I mean, it's got a lot of 1140 01:02:41.599 --> 01:02:45.599 similarities with of course the painful, but it's still like 1141 01:02:45.719 --> 01:02:48.440 it's still worth listening to. It stands out so much 1142 01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:49.519 like it. 1143 01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:52.480 If somebody had never heard this and they said, like, yeah, 1144 01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:54.000 what is it, like, what would you say? 1145 01:02:55.719 --> 01:02:58.079 I would say it kind of depends on the song too, 1146 01:02:58.239 --> 01:02:59.840 because some of them are like that one that you 1147 01:03:00.039 --> 01:03:02.199 brought to the round table where hab a little clips 1148 01:03:02.239 --> 01:03:03.199 from shen MoU with the. 1149 01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:08.639 Oh word card, which, by the way, I don't know 1150 01:03:08.679 --> 01:03:12.360 if you played the definitive edition of Painful. They that 1151 01:03:12.519 --> 01:03:14.760 was a rights issue and they couldn't get the rights 1152 01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:17.440 to do that voice again of the of the guy 1153 01:03:17.679 --> 01:03:21.039 because okay, so here's the track that Aaron's talking about, 1154 01:03:32.519 --> 01:03:35.800 so that that grunt that you're hearing is sampled from 1155 01:03:35.840 --> 01:03:38.599 the game She or shen U too, and they couldn't 1156 01:03:38.599 --> 01:03:41.719 get the rights to have it indefinitive. So they what 1157 01:03:41.840 --> 01:03:44.519 Austin did was he called the voice actor from shen 1158 01:03:44.599 --> 01:03:46.480 MoU and he was like, Hey, here's the situation. We 1159 01:03:46.519 --> 01:03:48.960 can't get the rights, and he's like, oh, I'll rerecord it, 1160 01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:52.239 don't worry. But you know, the guy is decades older, 1161 01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:56.280 so it sounds much. I mean, he just sounds older 1162 01:03:56.480 --> 01:04:01.039 and fans revolted. But yeah, anyway, anyways, I didn't mean 1163 01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:02.599 to interrupt you. I just thought that was kind of funny. 1164 01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:04.800 I have no idea where I heard this from, but 1165 01:04:04.880 --> 01:04:07.519 I'm pretty sure it's wrong. I found a tweet from 1166 01:04:07.679 --> 01:04:11.239 Austin's twitter back in July of twenty twenty three. It's 1167 01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:14.239 a shit post with a Simpsons clip, So, like any 1168 01:04:14.280 --> 01:04:17.960 good podcaster, I am going to explain the joke. It's 1169 01:04:18.159 --> 01:04:20.960 the Simpsons, as I said, where Bart gets faked out 1170 01:04:21.039 --> 01:04:23.400 about his Christmas present and it turns out it's the 1171 01:04:23.880 --> 01:04:28.159 Lee Caravallo's Putting Challenge video game is something like that. Well, 1172 01:04:28.639 --> 01:04:32.679 it's that clip with Jorgensen's face over Marge who's giving 1173 01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:37.159 the gift, the fans being or the Lisa Music enjoyers 1174 01:04:37.239 --> 01:04:40.719 being Bart getting the unsuspecting surprise, and the video game 1175 01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:44.960 is instead a little thumbnail of the dudes doing the 1176 01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:50.280 work Harder scene and on it says, with W two 1177 01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:54.440 D that is witty too, diddaly that is Austin. One 1178 01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:59.559 of Austin's aliases, with WTD as the former uugh guy. 1179 01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:02.840 The clip then ends, you know with what I guess 1180 01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:06.239 is an audio of Austin himself doing like five of 1181 01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:09.320 these in a row. I'll link it in the episode 1182 01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:13.760 description as the grunt itself. And well, you know, as 1183 01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:17.480 long as I'm here, I'm gonna work for the patron pledges. 1184 01:05:17.679 --> 01:05:26.320 So you know, back up from the mic, let's get 1185 01:05:26.320 --> 01:05:27.079 back to the episode. 1186 01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:30.280 Well you're good, yeah, I guess, And I'm really bad 1187 01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:32.280 at talking about music, so I'm gonna try my best. 1188 01:05:32.679 --> 01:05:36.400 It's a mix of how do I describe it. There's 1189 01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:39.800 a lot of tracks that have these gigantic whaling guitars 1190 01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:43.320 going crazy. There's some tracks that are like not like 1191 01:05:43.800 --> 01:05:47.840 not like electronica, beepy boopy, but like, yeah, I don't 1192 01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:50.000 have the right ports describe it, but it is it 1193 01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:52.599 is good. There's a lot of tracks that are just 1194 01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:57.440 ambient background noise or the occasional like guitar twang, or 1195 01:05:58.280 --> 01:06:00.920 you have a little little beeper boop here and there when.

1196 01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:03.880 You say deeper boom, I know exactly what you mean. 1197 01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:08.159 They're like. There are digital vovo zelas that come in 1198 01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:12.960 a lot, which if you're if you're youngerzelas became very 1199 01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:17.159 popular in like twenty thirteen. They were everywhere before smartphones 1200 01:06:17.159 --> 01:06:19.079 became like what they are today. You could download move 1201 01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:21.119 Azela apps where you just push it and you get 1202 01:06:21.159 --> 01:06:25.280 the pretty good a lot of that. A lot of 1203 01:06:25.360 --> 01:06:29.199 like talk box sounding things too, kind kind of almost 1204 01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:32.039 like a techno house music sound. Patches. 1205 01:06:32.559 --> 01:06:35.480 There we go, yes, house music that is there we 1206 01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:37.400 go Yep. I could not think of that word, but 1207 01:06:37.480 --> 01:06:38.360 that's perfect. 1208 01:06:38.800 --> 01:06:41.760 Yeah, there's a lot of that. I think the adjectives 1209 01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:44.239 that I always use whenever I'm describing this and Painful 1210 01:06:44.360 --> 01:06:53.159 soundtracks are like rude, crude, primitive raw. I don't know 1211 01:06:53.199 --> 01:06:55.800 what else. I primal is maybe not quite right, but 1212 01:06:55.960 --> 01:07:00.360 I think rude like is the best way that sense. 1213 01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:04.440 Yeah. Like, one of my favorite tracks from The Painful 1214 01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:06.920 is something to do with Sunshine. I forget the name 1215 01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:09.119 off the bat. You might have to look it up, 1216 01:07:09.159 --> 01:07:11.480 but it's just one that plays when you're rinning around 1217 01:07:12.440 --> 01:07:13.840 that just plays in the in the backround where you're 1218 01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:16.360 running around and just exploring and stuff. It's like, babe, 1219 01:07:16.400 --> 01:07:20.880 oh yeah, summertime or something summertime. Oh my gosh. Yeah, 1220 01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:23.280 I messed that up so much. But yeah, that's one 1221 01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:25.320 of my favorite tracks, and I could I could see 1222 01:07:25.320 --> 01:07:29.599 that described as rude and crude and kind of primitive, 1223 01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:34.199 just like a twang and then kick kick snare twin. 1224 01:07:35.239 --> 01:07:37.719 One of my favorite tracks here they when you fight 1225 01:07:37.880 --> 01:07:40.639 Joy Mutants in this one and some Bosses. I think 1226 01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:44.519 they have a new track that I don't know if 1227 01:07:44.559 --> 01:07:46.239 it's new, but they have a different track that plays 1228 01:07:46.239 --> 01:07:49.559 a lot of the time called six six six Kill 1229 01:07:49.639 --> 01:07:50.440 Chop Deluxe. 1230 01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:54.400 Oh shit, Helliah, I do really like that track. 1231 01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:57.199 It opened the episode in fact, but the Joy Mutant 1232 01:07:57.280 --> 01:08:01.360 fights usually have the track titled the Big Girl Cometh. 1233 01:08:02.079 --> 01:08:04.320 You hear it now and it'll play us back into 1234 01:08:04.360 --> 01:08:20.239 the episode proper. Why does this sound creepy, Well, it's 1235 01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:25.279 the minor third that dough may or reversing it may 1236 01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:31.279 dough that interval. There is a whole chunk of musicology 1237 01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:35.800 and linguistics intersecting out there, neither of them being my expertise, 1238 01:08:35.840 --> 01:08:38.960 of course, but I find them terribly interesting. There is 1239 01:08:39.079 --> 01:08:42.760 a rabbit hole, a treasure trove of cool papers and 1240 01:08:42.800 --> 01:08:46.000 studies on this out there. The minor third shows up 1241 01:08:46.159 --> 01:08:50.039 a lot in nature and in culture as well. A 1242 01:08:50.119 --> 01:08:52.600 lot of us in the West associate this with children. 1243 01:08:53.079 --> 01:08:56.039 We hear babies cry in minor thirds, although they often 1244 01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:59.760 also cry and minor seconds, I think is a very 1245 01:09:00.039 --> 01:09:03.199 common occurrence as well. We hear it in nursery rhymes 1246 01:09:03.359 --> 01:09:06.920 very frequently. And what better way to make something creepy 1247 01:09:07.199 --> 01:09:11.760 than slow it down, add some reverb and make it 1248 01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:16.640 reminiscent of weird scary children. I mean, listen you hear 1249 01:09:16.720 --> 01:09:26.800 ring around the Rosie, don't you. Yeah, this is a 1250 01:09:27.119 --> 01:09:29.640 great soundtrack. It's more or less going to be exactly 1251 01:09:29.680 --> 01:09:32.159 what you got from Painful, and what you got from 1252 01:09:32.199 --> 01:09:36.600 Painful was extremely good. Yep, Yeah, totally written as far 1253 01:09:36.640 --> 01:09:39.720 as I'm aware, by Jorgensen himself, like he he did it. 1254 01:09:40.159 --> 01:09:43.439 It's credited to Wittley too diddly what do you call it? 1255 01:09:43.520 --> 01:09:46.640 In the in the credits, but I'm one hundred percent 1256 01:09:46.840 --> 01:09:50.239 we're close to it positive that all of those names 1257 01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:53.319 are just pseudonyms that Austin goes under. I'm pretty sure 1258 01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:55.640 he did, like like he did the programming, the writing, 1259 01:09:55.720 --> 01:09:56.960 the designing music. 1260 01:09:57.359 --> 01:10:00.399 I think I was. When I was writing my thing 1261 01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:03.880 yesterday I linked one of the tracks to the game 1262 01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:06.960 and the channel for Widley to Diddley. I'm pretty sure 1263 01:10:07.079 --> 01:10:09.680 it had a woman's face on it, but I could 1264 01:10:09.720 --> 01:10:13.119 be wrong. Oh my bad, that's a knockoff, it says 1265 01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:14.000 Marina Jova, And. 1266

01:10:15.680 --> 01:10:19.359 Yeah, yeah, you are right. I think I think Marina 1267 01:10:19.439 --> 01:10:23.960 Jova is the one, the main other person that Austin 1268 01:10:24.079 --> 01:10:26.840 collaborated with on this game, and I think they were 1269 01:10:27.640 --> 01:10:31.720 Marina that is in doing music stuff, Like I'm pretty 1270 01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:34.760 sure they're singing in one of the tracks. Yeah, yeah, 1271 01:10:34.840 --> 01:10:38.359 it's a great soundtrack. It's I don't know, it's one 1272 01:10:38.399 --> 01:10:40.520 of those soundtracks. You know, we keep going back to 1273 01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:42.800 the Last of Us, or at least I do. I 1274 01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:46.199 think the Last of Us is soundtrack works with that 1275 01:10:46.399 --> 01:10:49.279 game's like fiction very well, you know, because it's it's 1276 01:10:49.359 --> 01:10:52.560 mainly guitar, and Joel and Ellie both played guitar. It's 1277 01:10:52.600 --> 01:10:55.760 got kind of that sort of what do you call it, Uh, 1278 01:10:56.359 --> 01:10:58.640 it's it's got a little bit of that Texas sort 1279 01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:01.960 of hobbyist lang to it sometimes in terms of like 1280 01:11:02.000 --> 01:11:05.680 the guitar tone. But it's also you know, there's Gustavo 1281 01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:11.199 Santai I forgive me John, Gustavo Santo Ayaja. You know, 1282 01:11:11.279 --> 01:11:13.520 he puts a lot of that atmospheric stuff in. I 1283 01:11:13.640 --> 01:11:17.800 think the soundtrack for the Last of Us characterizes what 1284 01:11:17.920 --> 01:11:21.079 that game is perfectly. And I think the same about Lisa, 1285 01:11:21.319 --> 01:11:23.840 Like I think, I don't think you could do another 1286 01:11:23.960 --> 01:11:27.199 soundtrack here and make it fit better. 1287 01:11:28.159 --> 01:11:31.039 No, No, I'm trying to think of anything else that 1288 01:11:31.119 --> 01:11:35.520 would match this game's tone or themes or style, and 1289 01:11:35.960 --> 01:11:38.760 even trying to think of like, oh, what should Macgammi 1290 01:11:38.840 --> 01:11:41.119 ten say game or what should Macgammy ten say soundtrack 1291 01:11:41.159 --> 01:11:41.840 would fit here? 1292 01:11:41.920 --> 01:11:46.800 And no imagine imagine Shoji Megro's persona stuff in Lisa 1293 01:11:46.840 --> 01:11:50.000 the Painful Lista the joy Oh yeah, but. 1294 01:11:52.319 --> 01:11:54.199 And yeah you're finding a joy mutant. 1295 01:11:56.520 --> 01:12:00.359 Okay, So there is a lot to talk talk about 1296 01:12:00.359 --> 01:12:02.880 with this game, as you've heard so far, We're going 1297 01:12:02.920 --> 01:12:05.199 to talk through the story now. First of all, before 1298 01:12:05.239 --> 01:12:07.960 we get there, Aaron, is there anything else that we 1299 01:12:08.039 --> 01:12:10.159 didn't get to that we didn't talk about, or just 1300 01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:13.880 any final comments you'd like to just put out there 1301 01:12:14.079 --> 01:12:16.239 for either me, for the listeners, or just something you 1302 01:12:16.319 --> 01:12:19.319 want to say before we talk about what happens in 1303 01:12:19.399 --> 01:12:20.119 Lisa the Joyful. 1304 01:12:21.479 --> 01:12:23.640 I think I've gotten all my points out so far. 1305 01:12:23.800 --> 01:12:26.439 I think I'm ready to talk about that story. 1306 01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:29.359 All right. I'm with you, Buddy. Let's do it. Let's 1307 01:12:29.399 --> 01:12:32.399 pick up where Lisa the Painful left off, and let's 1308 01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:35.520 see how Buddy makes her way through this world in 1309 01:12:36.159 --> 01:13:05.439 Lisa the Joyful. So, as I said up top, and 1310 01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:07.039 sort of as I'm going to try to do with 1311 01:13:07.119 --> 01:13:09.239 this show, you know, forever moving forward, we're not going 1312 01:13:09.319 --> 01:13:11.279 to do like a strict beat by beat for this 1313 01:13:12.119 --> 01:13:14.399 part of that's just because that's, like I said, I'm 1314 01:13:14.520 --> 01:13:16.760 kind of liking how the show is evolving in terms 1315 01:13:16.800 --> 01:13:21.880 of just discussion more like a real book club. But 1316 01:13:22.119 --> 01:13:25.800 also because Joyful has a very short run time. It's 1317 01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:28.439 about four or five hours, and most of that is 1318 01:13:28.520 --> 01:13:31.680 going to be exploring trying to find these bosses that 1319 01:13:31.760 --> 01:13:35.079 you're looking for. I've got a whole list here of 1320 01:13:35.159 --> 01:13:37.439 everything that happens. Aaron and I are not going to 1321 01:13:38.600 --> 01:13:41.479 go through and quote everything, but there are certain scenes 1322 01:13:41.600 --> 01:13:46.279 that we really should hone in on. So to begin with, 1323 01:13:46.600 --> 01:13:48.560 I think we should talk about the opening, because I 1324 01:13:48.600 --> 01:13:49.920 think the opening is very strong. 1325 01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:53.479 Oh yeah, there's a lot to unpack there right at 1326 01:13:53.520 --> 01:13:53.960 the beginning. 1327 01:13:54.720 --> 01:13:58.079 Yeah, it opens pretty similarly, too painful. It opens with 1328 01:13:58.159 --> 01:14:01.039 the credits with that one track playing like it's through 1329 01:14:01.039 --> 01:14:03.760 your radio, and then there's a black scream with some dialogue. 1330 01:14:03.960 --> 01:14:06.520 This is what the dialogue says, No need to show 1331 01:14:06.560 --> 01:14:09.199 off for yourself. Remember our deal. He's mine from now on. 1332 01:14:09.680 --> 01:14:11.520 I don't want your little friends getting in the way. 1333 01:14:12.079 --> 01:14:14.239 Somebody else answers, well, it can't make any promises. My 1334 01:14:14.319 --> 01:14:17.920 methods don't work on all of them. That Rando fellow 1335 01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:21.199 and see, okay, other person, if you're so worried about it, 1336 01:14:21.279 --> 01:14:22.960 why don't you go protect

her yourself? Or are you 1337 01:14:23.119 --> 01:14:27.439 just too scared, you weak old man. Well just go 1338 01:14:27.560 --> 01:14:29.159 take care of your little pet. From this point on, 1339 01:14:29.279 --> 01:14:31.079 we're finished. If you get in my way, I'll show 1340 01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:34.840 you just how weak I really am. That's how it begins. 1341 01:14:34.920 --> 01:14:37.640 It's not clear at first who this is, but that's 1342 01:14:37.640 --> 01:14:40.279 a pretty good hook, and it continues with just as 1343 01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:42.760 good of a hook. It begins immediately after the events 1344 01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:45.119 of the first game, and just to recap that a 1345 01:14:45.159 --> 01:14:47.520 little bit, the first game ends with Brad in a 1346 01:14:47.600 --> 01:14:50.600 sort of standoff. Too much to recap about the first one, 1347 01:14:50.600 --> 01:14:52.760 which is why I'm saying, listen to that episode first. 1348 01:14:52.760 --> 01:14:56.359 But Brad and Aaron, please correct me if I'm misremembering. 1349 01:14:56.479 --> 01:15:02.159 Brad goes through and create Hell on Earth to protect Buddy, 1350 01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:07.760 but his idea of protection is too is too clouded 1351 01:15:08.000 --> 01:15:10.960 by his own selfish desires and his own trauma that 1352 01:15:11.079 --> 01:15:14.359 he can't see that he's hurting everybody around him, including Buddy. Eventually, 1353 01:15:14.560 --> 01:15:17.199 Brad ends up getting Brad turns into a joy mutant 1354 01:15:17.479 --> 01:15:21.800 and basically gets attacked almost to death. He's not dead, 1355 01:15:22.039 --> 01:15:25.239 he's here now we're gonna see him. But that's that's 1356 01:15:25.319 --> 01:15:26.600 how painful ends, right. 1357 01:15:27.159 --> 01:15:31.000 Yeah, yep, that's exactly it. I think, like, right at 1358 01:15:31.039 --> 01:15:33.359 the end of Painful, no on, never mind, you gotta 1359 01:15:33.359 --> 01:15:35.800 written down near mind, keep going good, you got it? 1360 01:15:37.199 --> 01:15:43.159 Thank you. I I genuinely appreciate the encouragement. Yeah. It 1361 01:15:43.239 --> 01:15:46.079 begins right after that. Buddy is sleeping in a room 1362 01:15:46.279 --> 01:15:49.000 and Joy mutant Brad is in there, and he's sort 1363 01:15:49.039 --> 01:15:52.199 of lurching towards her. He just says, Lisa, help me, 1364 01:15:52.760 --> 01:15:56.039 and it begins combat. You know what I love about this, Aaron, 1365 01:15:56.199 --> 01:15:59.199 is that you know, Buddy is in the story, Buddy 1366 01:15:59.319 --> 01:16:02.000 is being approach by Brad as a Joy mutant, and 1367 01:16:02.159 --> 01:16:05.039 she's sleeping, you know, so you imagine he's probably creeping 1368 01:16:05.079 --> 01:16:07.840 towards her, making all these horrible sounds wailing, which is 1369 01:16:08.079 --> 01:16:11.520 what Joy mutants tend to do, wailing and crying. So 1370 01:16:11.680 --> 01:16:13.600 you imagine, you know, Buddy

is obviously going to wake up. 1371 01:16:13.640 --> 01:16:15.319 But the way that they frame it here is instead 1372 01:16:15.319 --> 01:16:17.279 of doing it like in a cutscene or whatever, they 1373 01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:19.680 do it in combat. And you have to choose fight, 1374 01:16:20.439 --> 01:16:22.760 but your only option is dot dot dot because you're 1375 01:16:22.760 --> 01:16:25.239 asleep and you can't do anything. And I really love that. 1376 01:16:26.760 --> 01:16:29.000 That is really cool. I love how the game does 1377 01:16:29.079 --> 01:16:31.840 that type of shit, just like if you were hit 1378 01:16:31.920 --> 01:16:33.279 with the sleep status effect. 1379 01:16:33.800 --> 01:16:36.640 Yeah, yeah, it's nice. You do eventually wake up and 1380 01:16:36.680 --> 01:16:42.079 you're forced to fight Brad, which you could imagine might 1381 01:16:42.159 --> 01:16:44.600 be a little bit traumatic for her, even though I mean, 1382 01:16:45.079 --> 01:16:46.960 after Painful, we kind of get an idea of how 1383 01:16:46.960 --> 01:16:50.800 Buddy feels towards Brad. It's again left, it's left a 1384 01:16:50.880 --> 01:16:52.920 little bit up to interpretation at the end, which I 1385 01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:57.039 think is so strong. Although here and then Enjoyful, you 1386 01:16:57.199 --> 01:17:00.239 kind of learn that no, she actually does resent just 1387 01:17:00.279 --> 01:17:02.039 as much as you thought she maybe did. But anyway, 1388 01:17:02.640 --> 01:17:06.720 you don't kill him because Buzzo comes in and wrangles him. 1389 01:17:07.359 --> 01:17:09.520 He comes in, he wrangles Brad by the neck with 1390 01:17:09.600 --> 01:17:12.880 a rope, takes him away, and he warns Buddy to 1391 01:17:13.039 --> 01:17:15.840 stay away from Joy and to be careful, and he 1392 01:17:15.920 --> 01:17:17.439 does emphasize He's like, I don't want to hurt you. 1393 01:17:17.640 --> 01:17:20.159 I never did, you know, And then he gives her 1394 01:17:20.239 --> 01:17:22.720 some warnings in says, welcome to hell, Sunshine. It's his 1395 01:17:22.800 --> 01:17:24.119 little catchphrase. 1396 01:17:24.600 --> 01:17:25.000 I love that. 1397 01:17:25.720 --> 01:17:28.359 Yeah, what do you I don't know if now's the 1398 01:17:28.399 --> 01:17:29.960 best time to ask, Hi, I'm gonna do it anyway. 1399 01:17:30.279 --> 01:17:34.239 What do you like Buzzo's role in this story. He's 1400 01:17:34.479 --> 01:17:37.079 very he's not totally absent, but he doesn't play a 1401 01:17:37.159 --> 01:17:39.560 big role until he does. If that makes sense. 1402 01:17:40.199 --> 01:17:42.039 No, yeah, because I'm now that I think about it. 1403 01:17:42.159 --> 01:17:45.199 You really only see him at the beginning and at 1404 01:17:45.239 --> 01:17:47.399 the end, and it doesn't really do a whole lot 1405 01:17:47.439 --> 01:17:49.000 other than like, I know, at the end, he kind 1406 01:17:49.039 --> 01:17:51.000 of just like I mean, I guess he does save 1407 01:17:51.319 --> 01:17:53.840 Buddy pro mutant, but like at the end, he just 1408 01:17:54.079 --> 01:17:57.359 kind of shoe horns in some more Lisa and then 1409 01:17:58.119 --> 01:18:00.640 and dies. Yeah, he doesn't do all whole lot for 1410 01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:02.960 this game, to be totally honest. 1411 01:18:03.560 --> 01:18:08.720 Mm hmm. Yeah, I'm not wild about how the background 1412 01:18:08.800 --> 01:18:11.000 with him plays out. I think his background with Lisa 1413 01:18:11.039 --> 01:18:15.760 specifically is so tragic and it adds a new dimension 1414 01:18:15.760 --> 01:18:18.479 to his character. But the way that you get that 1415 01:18:19.279 --> 01:18:21.960 is in one of the epilogues and basically him just 1416 01:18:22.399 --> 01:18:25.079 saying it to you, which at the very end of 1417 01:18:25.119 --> 01:18:28.600 the game too, which you know is I mean, that's 1418 01:18:28.640 --> 01:18:31.520 about as disoriented as Buddy probably felt in that moment. 1419 01:18:31.680 --> 01:18:35.359 But I don't know. I'm not crazy about it, but 1420 01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:39.279 you know whatever. Anyway, Buddy is here. This is after 1421 01:18:39.479 --> 01:18:41.399 all the events. You can still see all the carnage 1422 01:18:41.439 --> 01:18:43.039 from the battle at the end of the last game. 1423 01:18:43.960 --> 01:18:46.680 Buddy gets jumped by a bunch of these guys, but 1424 01:18:46.880 --> 01:18:49.960 Rando comes in. Rando from the last game, big buff 1425 01:18:50.039 --> 01:18:53.640 guy in the red mask. Pretty sure we learned this 1426 01:18:53.760 --> 01:18:57.000 in the last game. Real name is Dustin Armstrong. He 1427 01:18:57.199 --> 01:19:00.960 was one of Brad's karate students and his adopted son. 1428 01:19:01.800 --> 01:19:03.880 That's how he refers to himself. I don't quite remember 1429 01:19:03.880 --> 01:19:06.600 if that's you know whatever, but yeah, he saves her. 1430 01:19:07.039 --> 01:19:10.000 A joy mutant comes in, kills the entire gang and 1431 01:19:10.079 --> 01:19:12.800 lets Buddy and rand Rando escape, and this is where 1432 01:19:13.239 --> 01:19:16.439 Rando sort of makes his plea with Buddy. He says, 1433 01:19:16.920 --> 01:19:20.399 I just want peace growth. You understand that without woman 1434 01:19:21.000 --> 01:19:23.359 humans will die out right. I want to fix this 1435 01:19:23.439 --> 01:19:26.399 world and only you can do it. This is a 1436 01:19:26.479 --> 01:19:29.680 pretty old trope, Aaron, the idea of like one woman 1437 01:19:29.960 --> 01:19:34.880 could save the human population, you know what, And there 1438 01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:38.760 are nuances to this, especially in a more I don't 1439 01:19:38.760 --> 01:19:41.319 want to say civilized or enlightened, but kind of like age, 1440 01:19:41.359 --> 01:19:44.520 you know, where we're understanding gender identity a little bit 1441 01:19:44.520 --> 01:19:48.600 different that I want to acknowledge that. I just

also 1442 01:19:48.640 --> 01:19:51.399 want to acknowledge that that's not an angle from which 1443 01:19:51.439 --> 01:19:53.880 I think you, either you or I could speak intelligently about. 1444 01:19:54.039 --> 01:19:58.800 But this trope saving the human race with like one woman, 1445 01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:02.560 you know, the of woman in that way? What do 1446 01:20:02.640 --> 01:20:03.319 you feel about it? 1447 01:20:03.479 --> 01:20:04.000 Do you like it? 1448 01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:04.760 Do you dislike it? 1449 01:20:05.560 --> 01:20:07.640 Just like you said, man, it's it's hard to hard 1450 01:20:07.680 --> 01:20:11.680 to explain with how we uh, with how gender I 1451 01:20:11.720 --> 01:20:14.439 guess gender norms and everything are nowadays. 1452 01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:16.640 It's uh, well, don't say it like that. 1453 01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:19.960 Oh ya, I shouldn't said gender norms. Uh yeah, Uh, 1454 01:20:20.800 --> 01:20:23.880 it's hard to say. I mean, really she is the 1455 01:20:23.960 --> 01:20:27.000 only one that can really fix the world. You'll repopulate it. 1456 01:20:27.920 --> 01:20:30.279 I don't know necessarily from like that the beauty standpoint, 1457 01:20:30.560 --> 01:20:32.199 I guess that's part of it. But yeah, yeah, like 1458 01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:36.079 she really is the only one that can save the world, 1459 01:20:36.279 --> 01:20:40.359 repopulate it. Possibly. I hate to use this word, but 1460 01:20:41.199 --> 01:20:43.840 I guess produce more female or I guess, yeah, I 1461 01:20:43.840 --> 01:20:47.520 give birth to more females hopefully possibly, Yeah, she is 1462 01:20:47.600 --> 01:20:50.000 the only one that can do it. But I it 1463 01:20:50.119 --> 01:20:53.079 sucks that that's really her only option in this world 1464 01:20:53.239 --> 01:20:56.319 is to just be just be a mother, like just 1465 01:20:56.399 --> 01:20:58.000 be be the mother that the world needs. 1466 01:20:58.800 --> 01:21:02.439 Yeah. Yeah, a lot of of these horrendous assholes kind 1467 01:21:02.479 --> 01:21:04.680 of just view her as a breed mare. They're like, yeah, 1468 01:21:04.760 --> 01:21:07.439 you know, well no, I shouldn't even say that. Some 1469 01:21:07.560 --> 01:21:09.479 of them do. But some of them are even more 1470 01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:13.479 depraved than that, and you know, just want her body. 1471 01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:16.880 We can say it's one of those tropes that like 1472 01:21:17.159 --> 01:21:19.520 I can look past it pretty easily, like I can 1473 01:21:19.640 --> 01:21:23.960 just accept it as a fictional thing. But this was 1474 01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:26.399 pointed out to me embarrassingly late in life, like I 1475 01:21:26.439 --> 01:21:28.399 think I was in my late twenties. But it's one 1476 01:21:28.399 --> 01:21:29.800 of those things where if you think about it, like 1477 01:21:29.880 --> 01:21:32.720 if you just logically plotted out, you would get to 1478 01:21:32.760 --> 01:21:36.159 a genetic dead end pretty quickly and everybody would die anyway, 1479 01:21:36.840 --> 01:21:39.600 And uh, you know, I don't know, I have a 1480 01:21:39.640 --> 01:21:41.479 note here that's like, you know, if I were in 1481 01:21:41.600 --> 01:21:44.359 this situation, if this were real, like what, I'm actually 1482 01:21:44.439 --> 01:21:48.680 myself into despair and just not do anything. I don't know. Yeah, 1483 01:21:48.760 --> 01:21:50.439 it's just one of those things you just got to 1484 01:21:50.479 --> 01:21:52.479 buy into it, and if you don't, that's that's cool. 1485 01:21:52.560 --> 01:21:56.439 But it's just a trope. Yeah, yep, so you had 1486 01:21:56.439 --> 01:21:59.640 said earlier. You just you didn't actually explicitly say this, 1487 01:21:59.720 --> 01:22:02.279 but it's just something you mentioned in passing. You mentioned 1488 01:22:02.319 --> 01:22:06.000 that Buddy trusted Rando, so you chose here to trust him. 1489 01:22:06.199 --> 01:22:09.720 I'm guessing I did. Yeah, you get a choice. You 1490 01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:12.880 can trust Rando or not. He's going to join your 1491 01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:14.439 party either way, and you get to fight with him 1492 01:22:14.439 --> 01:22:16.800 for a little bit. Fights the exact same as Brad, 1493 01:22:17.239 --> 01:22:19.600 but it does change the way that the two of 1494 01:22:19.680 --> 01:22:21.960 them speak to each other throughout the rest of the game. 1495 01:22:22.319 --> 01:22:26.960 Particularly one scene is pretty different, but that's that's later on. 1496 01:22:27.600 --> 01:22:28.000 All right. 1497 01:22:28.520 --> 01:22:30.920 Yeah, it's well, well, I'll talk about it when we 1498 01:22:31.000 --> 01:22:34.000 get to it. I actually think the I think the 1499 01:22:34.279 --> 01:22:37.279 trust him route is more satisfying, but I think that 1500 01:22:37.399 --> 01:22:41.199 don't trust him route is actually pretty pretty cool. 1501 01:22:41.880 --> 01:22:43.960 Yeah, I think it is pretty cool. Buddy being the 1502 01:22:44.039 --> 01:22:46.880 only woman in the world, you can't trust any guy. 1503 01:22:47.079 --> 01:22:50.159 I mean, all guys have those. If I were in 1504 01:22:50.279 --> 01:22:52.399 her shoes, I wouldn't trust any dude. 1505 01:22:53.000 --> 01:22:55.279 And it's not just dude too. I mean, well it 1506 01:22:55.399 --> 01:23:00.000 is because there are only dudes, you know, yeah, only dude. 1507 01:23:00.800 --> 01:23:04.239 Mi kneute, don't go. But it's not just that, It's 1508 01:23:04.319 --> 01:23:07.439 that the dudes in her life that have given her 1509 01:23:07.520 --> 01:23:13.039 the most pain were trusted parental figures. Yeah, Brad wasn't 1510 01:23:13.159 --> 01:23:16.880 you know which functionally I just mean Brad. Brad isn't 1511 01:23:17.159 --> 01:23:20.119 her dad more of like her adopted dad. But that 1512 01:23:20.279 --> 01:23:22.800 is who gave her the single most amount of pain 1513 01:23:23.000

--> 01:23:24.840 in her life, was the person that she trusted and 1514 01:23:24.960 --> 01:23:28.920 loved and called father. And now here comes Rando, who 1515 01:23:29.000 --> 01:23:31.560 fights like Brad, and who was one of Brad's students, 1516 01:23:31.600 --> 01:23:33.199 and who now wants to take care of Buddy. And 1517 01:23:33.239 --> 01:23:34.720 it's like, Buddy, do you trust me? Like I just 1518 01:23:34.760 --> 01:23:37.079 want I want you to bring peace to the world. 1519 01:23:37.079 --> 01:23:38.680 I want you to be safe. She's hearing all this 1520 01:23:38.760 --> 01:23:41.239 again and she's like, oh, this is another father figure, 1521 01:23:42.239 --> 01:23:44.520 Like you said, man, Yeah, why would she trust that? 1522 01:23:45.479 --> 01:23:49.239 Yep, just an exact carbon cop. No, it's okay, trust me. 1523 01:23:49.319 --> 01:23:51.560 I'm his son, I'm his adoptive son. No real son, 1524 01:23:51.680 --> 01:23:52.840 trust me, I'm like a son. 1525 01:24:04.880 --> 01:24:07.359 The two of you do team up, though, and he 1526 01:24:07.479 --> 01:24:09.760 gives you a little random mask, which is pretty cute. 1527 01:24:10.199 --> 01:24:12.439 You can get a little red skull mask and actually, 1528 01:24:12.840 --> 01:24:14.640 did you mess with this, Aaron? Did you take off 1529 01:24:14.720 --> 01:24:16.520 your mask at all and just go through the world. 1530 01:24:17.239 --> 01:24:19.319 I don't think I did. Actually, now did you mention it? 1531 01:24:19.359 --> 01:24:22.039 I do know that the masks are those are exclusive 1532 01:24:22.119 --> 01:24:25.640 to the definitive edition, aren't they? I know I did 1533 01:24:25.960 --> 01:24:27.600 mess with them. Oh they're not. Okay, No. 1534 01:24:29.079 --> 01:24:30.920 The only one that you're going to get no matter 1535 01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:33.760 what is the random mask. But if you go into 1536 01:24:33.800 --> 01:24:37.359 your key items, there's an icon that just says face 1537 01:24:37.760 --> 01:24:39.479 and it lets you take off any mask that you 1538 01:24:39.560 --> 01:24:42.279 have on. You can also, this is just a side note, 1539 01:24:42.319 --> 01:24:45.680 you can get a Terry Hints mask. It looks so 1540 01:24:46.079 --> 01:24:48.479 gross and ugly. I love it. I want to talk 1541 01:24:48.479 --> 01:24:51.479 about the Terry Village in a little bit. But if 1542 01:24:51.520 --> 01:24:54.479 you take off your mask, right, you're you're presenting to 1543 01:24:54.520 --> 01:24:58.359 the world as buddy, yes, young girl. And if you 1544 01:24:58.399 --> 01:25:02.319 do that, you get a te NonStop. Like like, if 1545 01:25:02.359 --> 01:25:04.039 you try to go to the bar, for example, and 1546 01:25:04.119 --> 01:25:06.720 buy like potato liquor, you get attacked. If you try 1547 01:25:06.720 --> 01:25:09.880 to buy items, you get attacked. Random weird dudes that 1548 01:25:09.960 --> 01:25:12.119 are otherwise just standing there on ledges you can't get to. 1549 01:25:12.159 --> 01:25:14.520 They'll jump down to attack you. So if you want 1550 01:25:14.600 --> 01:25:17.079 like extra experience points and stuff, that's the. 1551 01:25:17.079 --> 01:25:19.960 Way to do it. Man. Oh, I love how that 1552 01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:23.039 plays into the story and everything too, and that that's good. 1553 01:25:23.279 --> 01:25:24.000 I should have done that. 1554 01:25:25.239 --> 01:25:29.119 Yeah, it's pretty neat the two of you, Rando and Buddy. 1555 01:25:29.199 --> 01:25:31.840 You get to the border of east and West Oletha 1556 01:25:32.760 --> 01:25:36.079 and there is this giant list. This list, from top 1557 01:25:36.119 --> 01:25:38.359 to bottom, contains a bunch of names of the people 1558 01:25:38.560 --> 01:25:43.000 that run this place. These are some A plus names. Aaron, 1559 01:25:43.159 --> 01:25:44.960 would you like to do the honors of reading these? 1560 01:25:45.479 --> 01:25:50.520 Oh my god, yes? Please? All right? All right, in 1561 01:25:50.720 --> 01:25:53.439 order from top to bottom, Big Lincoln, that's my boy, 1562 01:25:53.920 --> 01:25:59.600 he can eat dirt, Cindy Gallows, Dice, Mahone, Lardi, her Nandez, 1563 01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:03.800 mister beautiful, Vega Van dam and the last three all 1564 01:26:03.840 --> 01:26:07.640 scratched out. Buff Vandyke, Hans Tsunami. Fuck, that's such a 1565 01:26:07.720 --> 01:26:10.960 cool name. And Hawk Hollywood. I lied, that's a cool name. 1566 01:26:11.319 --> 01:26:14.079 Yeah, dude, Buff van Dyke? Did you? I don't know 1567 01:26:14.079 --> 01:26:16.600 if you ever got him in painful? He was the 1568 01:26:16.960 --> 01:26:20.680 former football high school football star that wore like a 1569 01:26:21.119 --> 01:26:22.520 shoulder pads with spikes on him. 1570 01:26:22.960 --> 01:26:25.560 Oh, maybe I did get him. Yeah, he sounds really familiar. 1571 01:26:25.840 --> 01:26:29.560 He's pretty cool. I like playing as him. But those 1572 01:26:29.600 --> 01:26:31.600 are all the names. The scratched out three at the bottom, 1573 01:26:31.960 --> 01:26:35.800 buff Hans, Hans, Tsunami, and Hawk Hollywood. They're scratched out 1574 01:26:35.840 --> 01:26:38.920 because they're dead. They died. I think some of them 1575 01:26:38.960 --> 01:26:41.119 died in painful and it's just implied that some of 1576 01:26:41.159 --> 01:26:44.199 them died after But the rest of this game is 1577 01:26:44.720 --> 01:26:48.119 largely going to be centered around Buddy hunting down these 1578 01:26:48.159 --> 01:26:51.880 people and killing them. That is her goal. She wants 1579 01:26:51.960 --> 01:26:56.199 to rule a Leitha, largely because of the way that 1580 01:26:56.960 --> 01:26:59.000 she was brought up. I mean, we're going to see 1581 01:26:59.039 --> 01:27:05.000 this throughout the rest of this story. But Buddy's trauma, 1582 01:27:05.039 --> 01:27:08.159 a lot of buddies trauma, largely comes from being locked 1583 01:27:08.239 -->

01:27:10.840 up and being contained and told what she is and 1584 01:27:10.960 --> 01:27:14.079 what to do. She felt powerless, she didn't feel like 1585 01:27:14.119 --> 01:27:18.520 she had autonomy, and now a combination of this hostile world, 1586 01:27:19.119 --> 01:27:22.680 her wanting to regain control of herself, and the effects 1587 01:27:22.720 --> 01:27:26.079 of her being addicted to joy. The joy mutant process 1588 01:27:26.640 --> 01:27:30.159 sort of amplifies violent tendencies. All of this in marriage 1589 01:27:30.199 --> 01:27:35.079 with each other makes Buddy very violent, and she is. 1590 01:27:35.520 --> 01:27:37.680 Now we're gonna go down and hunt all these people 1591 01:27:37.800 --> 01:27:40.279 and slaughter them, because then we get to rule and 1592 01:27:40.840 --> 01:27:41.720 nobody can ever tell. 1593 01:27:41.600 --> 01:27:44.520 Her what to do. Again, works beautifully, I like that, 1594 01:27:45.199 --> 01:27:46.760 does it? Do you think it works beautifully? 1595 01:27:47.439 --> 01:27:50.640 No, it doesn't, I am because that's one of the 1596 01:27:50.720 --> 01:27:54.479 things that Joyful is a little different than painful one. 1597 01:27:54.560 --> 01:27:58.000 It's just smaller overall, which is finely. Painful had this 1598 01:27:58.399 --> 01:28:00.880 vast world to explore, and joy is a little bit 1599 01:28:01.520 --> 01:28:04.479 more contained whatever. I mean, it's a five hour thing, 1600 01:28:04.560 --> 01:28:07.840 that's fine, but it kind of just feels like you're 1601 01:28:08.159 --> 01:28:11.399 going to different boss locations hunting them down, and then 1602 01:28:11.520 --> 01:28:13.159 it doesn't even make you walk back a lot of 1603 01:28:13.199 --> 01:28:14.680 the time, it just warps you back and then you 1604 01:28:14.760 --> 01:28:17.800 do it all over again. I don't know. That to 1605 01:28:17.920 --> 01:28:21.239 me felt very rote, very samy. Combined with the fact 1606 01:28:21.279 --> 01:28:24.479 that it's just buddy doing the same buddy attacks, the 1607 01:28:24.560 --> 01:28:28.079 whole thing just started to feel very monotonous, tedious. 1608 01:28:28.680 --> 01:28:32.520 Yeah, I agree, man. It was basically just Mega Man, 1609 01:28:32.720 --> 01:28:35.920 but with more walking, just a little more walking. No, 1610 01:28:36.039 --> 01:28:38.119 I guess you going through the stage would be the walking. 1611 01:28:38.199 --> 01:28:40.520 It is Mega Man with a machety. 1612 01:28:41.960 --> 01:28:45.279 It's basically the same exact thing. I'm gonna need to 1613 01:28:45.319 --> 01:28:48.159 get that sound effect the voice acting the one he's like, 1614 01:28:48.560 --> 01:28:52.239 let's go, Mega Man. You must recover all the energy immediately. 1615 01:28:52.439 --> 01:28:55.079 Mega Man. You know the game that I'm talking about. 1616 01:28:55.640 --> 01:29:00.520 Isn't that no Mega Man X seven or something or no. 1617 01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:02.520 Yeah, it's one of them where the guy just bungles 1618 01:29:02.560 --> 01:29:04.319 his line and they just kept it and they're like, 1619 01:29:04.359 --> 01:29:06.079 fuck it, we're keeping it. We don't have time. 1620 01:29:07.039 --> 01:29:08.399 Some of those lines are so good. 1621 01:29:09.319 --> 01:29:12.880 There's a little event where Buddy and Rando they're trying 1622 01:29:12.920 --> 01:29:15.239 to hide from that Joy mutant I'm pretty sure. Or no, 1623 01:29:15.359 --> 01:29:18.359 maybe they just go into Rando's little place of cave 1624 01:29:18.439 --> 01:29:22.199 of residence and they get kidnapped. They get attacked and kidnapped. 1625 01:29:23.159 --> 01:29:25.880 The gist of this is that there are three dudes 1626 01:29:25.880 --> 01:29:30.159 in pink ponchos. They tied up Buddy. They had to 1627 01:29:30.279 --> 01:29:32.960 kill somebody named Dale because it's implied that he tried 1628 01:29:33.000 --> 01:29:35.920 to rape Buddy or something like that. They don't say it, 1629 01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:40.159 but it's implied, and this kind of only furthers Buddy's 1630 01:29:40.279 --> 01:29:43.720 desire for revenge. Oh and I guess I should say too. 1631 01:29:44.399 --> 01:29:46.720 Buddy kills all of them except for one, the one 1632 01:29:46.760 --> 01:29:49.119 that she calls the fat one. He got away. But 1633 01:29:49.560 --> 01:29:51.680 one thing that I noticed here, and I'm wondering if 1634 01:29:52.000 --> 01:29:55.760 you saw this too. Rando is found by these three 1635 01:29:55.840 --> 01:29:58.399 men like they know Rando, like they're not pals, but 1636 01:29:58.439 --> 01:30:01.079 they're friendly, and they're like, oh man, what happened to you? 1637 01:30:01.239 --> 01:30:03.239 Like you are right, blah blah blah blah blah. And 1638 01:30:04.239 --> 01:30:09.560 when and Rando's obviously bloody, beaten, tears streaming down his face, 1639 01:30:09.840 --> 01:30:12.920 and when they tell him that they killed Dale and 1640 01:30:13.159 --> 01:30:15.720 that buddy what he tried to do to Buddy, there 1641 01:30:15.800 --> 01:30:18.600 is like this very subtle shift in the pixels of 1642 01:30:18.720 --> 01:30:22.640 Randa's face that make him look like he's just he 1643 01:30:22.760 --> 01:30:27.439 went from like beaten up and crying to like grotesque, 1644 01:30:28.319 --> 01:30:31.399 like sobbing. But it's just this little little just a 1645 01:30:31.479 --> 01:30:34.399 couple of pixels change, and it's it's it's one of 1646 01:30:34.479 --> 01:30:36.399 the things that this game and Painful does so well. 1647 01:30:36.479 --> 01:30:39.520 They just do these little tweaks to the sprites and 1648 01:30:39.640 --> 01:30:43.359 it gives them this whole new facial animation. And if 1649 01:30:43.399 --> 01:30:46.399 you're me one, I'm sorry, but two, you're looking at 1650 01:30:46.439 --> 01:30:49.479 this and you're thinking this is such a minimal presentation, 1651 01:30:50.079 --> 01:30:53.239 and and they're somehow

saying so much with just one 1652 01:30:53.279 --> 01:30:57.479 little change, and it it works so well because they 1653 01:30:57.520 --> 01:31:01.720 look so gross and ugly. I loved it. I don't know, 1654 01:31:02.239 --> 01:31:03.439 maybe I'm making too much out of that. 1655 01:31:04.079 --> 01:31:06.960 No, I mean I did not notice that, but now 1656 01:31:07.000 --> 01:31:09.800 that you do mention it, it it does, man, because 1657 01:31:10.359 --> 01:31:13.319 at the end, Rando's is getting that piss beating out 1658 01:31:13.359 --> 01:31:16.640 of him. And then by this time we'll talk about 1659 01:31:16.640 --> 01:31:19.159 this more at the end, but I mean with the 1660 01:31:19.199 --> 01:31:21.920 stuff that he pulls, or not at the end, toward 1661 01:31:21.960 --> 01:31:24.239 the end, with all the stuff that he pulls, it 1662 01:31:24.880 --> 01:31:28.800 it's kind of makes sense. He's uh something going on. 1663 01:31:29.600 --> 01:31:33.199 Yeah, speaking of him, Speaking of going on, you know, 1664 01:31:33.399 --> 01:31:36.359 the Rando crawls next door finds buddy. Buddy is fine, 1665 01:31:36.479 --> 01:31:38.560 Like Rando is beaten to hell. Buddy is totally fine. 1666 01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:41.039 She killed all those guys, like I said, And this 1667 01:31:41.199 --> 01:31:43.560 is where she says, it's time to quote get to work. 1668 01:31:44.439 --> 01:31:47.319 That's what this slaughtering is to her. It's it's just work, 1669 01:31:47.479 --> 01:31:49.960 you know, Like this isn't a moral choice. She doesn't 1670 01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:51.960 have to like tock herself into it, hype herself up 1671 01:31:52.800 --> 01:31:55.039 like like I don't know, like walt from breaking bad 1672 01:31:55.079 --> 01:31:57.560 at first or something like, no, she just does it, 1673 01:31:58.359 --> 01:32:01.199 and she also gives the whole She also gives some 1674 01:32:01.439 --> 01:32:03.920 justification to like why she feels this way. I won't 1675 01:32:03.920 --> 01:32:06.560 read the whole thing, but you know, she says, this 1676 01:32:06.720 --> 01:32:08.640 is all that people want to do to me. I 1677 01:32:08.760 --> 01:32:12.279 refuse to be locked up like this. What does she say? 1678 01:32:12.359 --> 01:32:14.920 I am strong, I'm not afraid, and I'm one of 1679 01:32:14.960 --> 01:32:17.680 a kind. This isn't pain my body. I don't feel 1680 01:32:17.720 --> 01:32:21.319 anything anymore. My head, my heart, that's what hurts. This 1681 01:32:21.560 --> 01:32:25.840 is what I want, meaning to run Oletha, and she 1682 01:32:25.960 --> 01:32:28.640 basically says to Rando, you're either with me or you're 1683 01:32:28.680 --> 01:32:30.560 against me, and if you're against me, you're a target. 1684 01:32:32.600 --> 01:32:35.880 Oh yeah, Is that when Buddy lays all this out here? 1685 01:32:36.479 --> 01:32:39.359 Is that impactful to you? Like? Do you view her 1686 01:32:39.359 --> 01:32:43.560 as feeling empowered? Do you feel empowered as the player? Oh? 1687 01:32:43.760 --> 01:32:45.880 I'm so sorry. I don't mean to interrupt, but also 1688 01:32:46.159 --> 01:32:51.720 I'm interrupting myself all throughout this, You're getting these flashes 1689 01:32:51.800 --> 01:32:56.640 in the background of this red like visceral material, material 1690 01:32:56.720 --> 01:33:00.960 like flesh, guts kind of deal. It's imperative to play 1691 01:33:01.079 --> 01:33:05.520 painful first, because this happened at the end of painful 1692 01:33:05.560 --> 01:33:10.039 towards the end when Brad was going through the beginnings 1693 01:33:10.079 --> 01:33:14.039 of severe joy addiction, which which at which time is 1694 01:33:14.039 --> 01:33:17.279 when you kind of start turning into a joy mutant. 1695 01:33:17.560 --> 01:33:19.880 So this is signifying right away that Buddy has not 1696 01:33:20.039 --> 01:33:22.680 only been taking joy and is addicted to joy, but 1697 01:33:22.880 --> 01:33:27.399 the mutation process on some level has already started, which 1698 01:33:27.439 --> 01:33:30.800 again part of why she's being so violent. But that's 1699 01:33:30.840 --> 01:33:34.279 what that's signifying. So anyway, I didn't mean to interrupt 1700 01:33:34.800 --> 01:33:38.439 your question. Do you like, did this feel empowering to you? 1701 01:33:38.720 --> 01:33:42.039 Like did you just say like, oh, okay, that's whatever, 1702 01:33:42.319 --> 01:33:43.840 Like what do you what are you thinking right now? 1703 01:33:43.880 --> 01:33:45.640 Do you do you think this is a cool mission? 1704 01:33:46.359 --> 01:33:48.479 Now that I think about it, it does sound very 1705 01:33:48.760 --> 01:33:52.039 like like as you explained, she's super addicted to joy. 1706 01:33:52.640 --> 01:33:56.760 She feels absolutely nothing other than other than the the 1707 01:33:56.880 --> 01:34:00.439 need or the impulse to just kill in her shit. 1708 01:34:00.640 --> 01:34:04.039 So what uh, yeah, that's pretty much. That's pretty much 1709 01:34:04.039 --> 01:34:07.239 all I interpreted it as right, or interpreted it, sorry, 1710 01:34:07.479 --> 01:34:10.399 interpreted it when I when I played the game was that, Yeah, 1711 01:34:10.479 --> 01:34:13.479 she's just she just needs to kill. She needs to 1712 01:34:13.600 --> 01:34:18.399 kill now, she's she's super hooked on joy. That's but yeah, 1713 01:34:18.439 --> 01:34:20.800 I get what she's saying though, like she doesn't want 1714 01:34:20.880 --> 01:34:23.880 to be she doesn't want to be protected, she doesn't 1715 01:34:23.920 --> 01:34:27.840 want to be this like like you mentioned before, I 1716 01:34:27.920 --> 01:34:30.079 had to use the word like the breeding mayor type 1717 01:34:30.119 --> 01:34:32.479 of thing. But yeah, yeah, she just she wants to 1718 01:34:32.560 --> 01:34:34.720 be able to be free, to be a kid, which 1719 01:34:34.800 --> 01:34:37.960 she is, but she can't because she's the only female. 1720 01:34:38.159 -->

01:34:42.239 Yeah yeah, yeah, she'll never know that. Rando. At some point, 1721 01:34:42.399 --> 01:34:44.760 like throughout this, uh, Rando is going to try to 1722 01:34:44.760 --> 01:34:47.680 dissuade buddy at various times, you know, from the violence, 1723 01:34:47.720 --> 01:34:49.960 like we don't need this, like we can, we can 1724 01:34:50.159 --> 01:34:53.119 give you peace, you know you and she she'll say 1725 01:34:53.159 --> 01:34:55.760 several times, I don't know the world that you grew 1726 01:34:55.880 --> 01:34:58.720 up in. This is my world, this is my life. 1727 01:34:59.600 --> 01:35:02.079 And to that end, I kind of love the fact 1728 01:35:02.159 --> 01:35:05.079 that she is cognizant of the fact that she is special. 1729 01:35:05.479 --> 01:35:08.439 You know, she says a couple of times throughout you 1730 01:35:08.520 --> 01:35:11.760 know you all need me. I know what I am yep, 1731 01:35:11.960 --> 01:35:15.520 like I'm special, I am powerful, And she uses that 1732 01:35:15.600 --> 01:35:18.279 to her advantage, which I think is and it's not 1733 01:35:18.439 --> 01:35:21.199 it's not done in a way that's like empowering. It's 1734 01:35:21.279 --> 01:35:24.560 just so matter of fact like, without me, you're all screwed. 1735 01:35:25.800 --> 01:35:28.159 So if you don't do what I say, you're also 1736 01:35:28.239 --> 01:35:31.560 screwed because I'm gonna kill you. You know, it's cool, 1737 01:35:31.720 --> 01:35:33.199 it's very bleak. I love it. 1738 01:35:34.000 --> 01:35:36.159 Not to keep comparing it to the last of us, 1739 01:35:36.239 --> 01:35:39.359 but yeah, god damn it did. Just like how Ellie's 1740 01:35:39.359 --> 01:35:41.159 got the cure in her blood or whatever. I didn't 1741 01:35:41.279 --> 01:35:41.880 in games. 1742 01:35:41.880 --> 01:35:44.079 So oh yeah, sure, but yeah, good callback. 1743 01:35:44.760 --> 01:35:48.560 But yeah, she's doing the exact same thing. She's in charge, 1744 01:35:48.800 --> 01:35:52.319 she's the one with the most power here, like yeah, 1745 01:35:52.760 --> 01:35:53.119 mm hmm. 1746 01:35:54.039 --> 01:35:57.319 So there are a couple of scenes sprinkled throughout, but 1747 01:35:57.479 --> 01:36:00.960 before we talk about any of those, as far as 1748 01:36:01.079 --> 01:36:03.319 the boss list goes, you do have to go find 1749 01:36:03.359 --> 01:36:05.720 them all and kill them all. Are there any of 1750 01:36:05.800 --> 01:36:07.600 these bosses you wanted to talk about? I mean, I 1751 01:36:07.680 --> 01:36:09.640 know you had talked about Big Lincoln a couple of times. 1752 01:36:10.399 --> 01:36:11.840 Do you want to talk about his fight at all. 1753 01:36:11.840 --> 01:36:15.680 Or like dealing with him his bipe or not his bite? 1754 01:36:15.720 --> 01:36:19.439 Oh my god, he's wearing a wolf hates. 1755 01:36:19.640 --> 01:36:22.000 Yeah, this fight was such a big pain in the 1756 01:36:22.079 --> 01:36:24.840 ass because again, I didn't take any joy for

any 1757 01:36:24.840 --> 01:36:26.479 of these fights, which probably would have made them a 1758 01:36:26.520 --> 01:36:28.840 whole lot easier would have made the game a breeze. 1759 01:36:28.960 --> 01:36:32.720 But Big Lincoln in particular, First of all, his music 1760 01:36:32.880 --> 01:36:36.720 is really good. And the way that you find him, 1761 01:36:37.159 --> 01:36:39.119 like you go into his tower, you go up a 1762 01:36:39.119 --> 01:36:41.840 couple floors, it's like, oh, he must not be here, 1763 01:36:42.000 --> 01:36:44.760 like it. First of all, it's like super dark and 1764 01:36:45.039 --> 01:36:47.840 dimly lit in his tower. You know, you're walking through 1765 01:36:48.039 --> 01:36:52.000 room after room after room, and then finally like kind 1766 01:36:52.000 --> 01:36:53.680 of stop in place, and then the lights kind of 1767 01:36:53.720 --> 01:36:56.840 fade in, and then Big Lincoln is just towering over you, 1768 01:36:57.000 --> 01:36:59.880 just standing right there, and then the fight starts. The 1769 01:37:00.039 --> 01:37:02.439 way I internalized it was like Buddy's just walking through 1770 01:37:02.479 --> 01:37:04.920 this dark building and then all of a sudden she 1771 01:37:05.239 --> 01:37:08.000 kind of spots Big Lincoln and then and then of 1772 01:37:08.079 --> 01:37:10.399 course they fight and and he sends you to hell 1773 01:37:10.520 --> 01:37:14.359 multiple times, and then you kill him, of course. But yeah, yeah, 1774 01:37:14.479 --> 01:37:16.159 that was It was a cool fight, but it was 1775 01:37:16.239 --> 01:37:16.840 tough as fuck. 1776 01:37:17.279 --> 01:37:19.720 Yeah, definitely one of the harder ones, that's for sure. 1777 01:37:20.520 --> 01:37:23.920 I think I mentioned Lardie at one point earlier, just 1778 01:37:24.039 --> 01:37:27.079 the yeah, you know, his goofiness combined with the fact 1779 01:37:27.119 --> 01:37:30.319 that there's no comedy there. I like the music. Mister 1780 01:37:30.359 --> 01:37:32.079 Beautiful is one that we mentioned a couple of times. 1781 01:37:32.199 --> 01:37:36.680 This one is pretty interesting. He mister Beautiful didn't become 1782 01:37:36.760 --> 01:37:40.159 respected because he's so powerful or because he's so beautiful. 1783 01:37:40.680 --> 01:37:45.319 It's because he leads this village of pacifists. Yeah, they 1784 01:37:45.399 --> 01:37:48.520 don't fight. They won't fight, They don't fight anybody. And 1785 01:37:49.640 --> 01:37:51.840 what Rando tells you is like, after a while, people 1786 01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:54.159 just kind of came to respect that and they just 1787 01:37:54.279 --> 01:37:56.680 leave him alone. Like, they don't go down there, Nobody 1788 01:37:56.760 --> 01:37:59.079 bothers him, they don't bother anybody else. You know, They're 1789 01:37:59.119 --> 01:38:01.560 just their own quest little thing. And what's cool about 1790 01:38:01.600 --> 01:38:03.920 this too, is when you go through that village there 1791 01:38:03.960 --> 01:38:06.560 are plenty of people down there, just kind of chilling, 1792 01:38:07.039 --> 01:38:10.520 and every time you walk past one, you have to 1793 01:38:10.560 --> 01:38:13.520 make the choice fight and you can select yes or no. 1794 01:38:13.920 --> 01:38:15.479 Did you kill any of these guys? 1795 01:38:16.199 --> 01:38:22.039 I think I did, unfortunately, because yeah, just as a player, 1796 01:38:22.079 --> 01:38:24.760 I viewed them as XP. But now of the I'm 1797 01:38:24.760 --> 01:38:27.359 thinking about it. Oh sucks, my bad. 1798 01:38:27.760 --> 01:38:30.199 You know, there's another game this gets compared to that 1799 01:38:30.600 --> 01:38:34.520 comments on how players seek for XP. Yeah, the mister 1800 01:38:34.560 --> 01:38:37.920 Beautiful fights. It's a little sad because you walk up 1801 01:38:37.960 --> 01:38:39.600 to him and she does the Buddy thing like are 1802 01:38:39.640 --> 01:38:42.479 you mister beautiful, and he's confused. He's like, you know 1803 01:38:42.560 --> 01:38:44.760 when you did that to Lardie. He's pissed. He's like, 1804 01:38:44.800 --> 01:38:47.039 what the fuck's your problem? Big Lincoln doesn't even talk 1805 01:38:47.039 --> 01:38:50.279 to you, he just immediately starts kicking your ass. Mister 1806 01:38:50.359 --> 01:38:53.760 Beautiful is like Rando, what's going on? And Rando's like, Thomas, 1807 01:38:54.239 --> 01:38:57.319 I'm really sorry, friend, and he's like, this wasn't the plan. 1808 01:38:57.479 --> 01:39:00.279 This wasn't the deal, you know, And Buddy doesn't get shit. Uh, 1809 01:39:00.479 --> 01:39:03.439 he won't fight you for the first third. The second 1810 01:39:03.479 --> 01:39:06.880 third he also doesn't fight you, but his mask kind 1811 01:39:06.920 --> 01:39:09.840 of again mores to be like grotesque and crying like 1812 01:39:09.880 --> 01:39:11.960 why are you doing this? And then at the very 1813 01:39:12.079 --> 01:39:15.680 end his mask comes off and he's just this like 1814 01:39:16.119 --> 01:39:20.239 fat guy with a mustache. Pretty good, but he's he's 1815 01:39:20.319 --> 01:39:22.479 super weak, so super easy. But uh. 1816 01:39:24.000 --> 01:39:27.479 Oh those lines though Thomas, I'm sorry friend, and then 1817 01:39:27.520 --> 01:39:29.960 basically just being like why are you doing this? Yeah 1818 01:39:30.159 --> 01:39:31.000 that I know. 1819 01:39:31.319 --> 01:39:33.840 Right right before he dies, he's like, my my friend 1820 01:39:33.960 --> 01:39:37.199 led me to my death. He brought this a biblical 1821 01:39:37.439 --> 01:39:40.119 machine of error to me and that's it. 1822 01:39:40.680 --> 01:39:46.359 Yep. Another one that was very very interesting. Oh my gosh, 1823 01:39:46.439 --> 01:39:51.960 I forget his name. Cindy, Cindy Gallows, Yes, Cindy Gallows. Yeah, 1824 01:39:52.479 --> 01:39:55.479 Like you jump down that pit and then you see 1825 01:39:55.840 --> 01:39:58.199 like he's strung up and he's like tied

up. He 1826 01:39:58.760 --> 01:40:01.039 has he has like what arrows something or knives sticking 1827 01:40:01.039 --> 01:40:02.359 out of him or something, and he's. 1828 01:40:02.239 --> 01:40:05.399 All, yeah, yeah, he's pale, impeeled with several arrows and 1829 01:40:05.439 --> 01:40:07.880 he's strung up like on on a gallows like well 1830 01:40:08.000 --> 01:40:09.319 appropriately like you said. 1831 01:40:09.439 --> 01:40:12.800 Yeah, and like the you bust in. You beat up 1832 01:40:12.840 --> 01:40:16.000 his cronies that are worshiping him, and then uh and 1833 01:40:16.079 --> 01:40:19.039 then you somehow fight him while he's still in the gallows. 1834 01:40:19.119 --> 01:40:21.560 And it's so good though, because, like I mean, Buddy's 1835 01:40:21.600 --> 01:40:23.399 obviously pissed she didn'tet to kill him, so she kills 1836 01:40:23.439 --> 01:40:26.119 the lagoons. And then as you're walking away, you think 1837 01:40:26.159 --> 01:40:28.720 he's dead and he's like, hey, I'm still toughy piece 1838 01:40:28.760 --> 01:40:29.640 of shit, Come get. 1839 01:40:29.600 --> 01:40:32.760 Oh yeah, I ain't no pussy or whatever he says. 1840 01:40:32.800 --> 01:40:36.319 Yeah, yeah, And that's gonna be pretty funny. Like I mean, 1841 01:40:36.399 --> 01:40:37.880 in the game, it's just a regular fight, but you 1842 01:40:37.920 --> 01:40:40.800 gotta imagine, like you know, he's just strung up trying 1843 01:40:40.840 --> 01:40:41.159 to bite. 1844 01:40:42.760 --> 01:40:44.880 Yeah, oh yeah, he does fight her. 1845 01:40:44.960 --> 01:40:48.279 Oh yeah yeah, which again biting and coughing up blood. 1846 01:40:48.319 --> 01:40:51.039 That's joy mutant telltale signs. So I mean you could 1847 01:40:51.119 --> 01:40:53.680 just assume that he's already like on the way to turning. 1848 01:40:54.319 --> 01:40:55.319 He would have been dead anyway. 1849 01:40:55.520 --> 01:40:58.279 Yeah, yeah, I guess maybe that's why he was strung up. 1850 01:40:58.680 --> 01:41:01.640 I don't remember Dice mahone at all, to be honest. 1851 01:41:01.439 --> 01:41:03.399 With you, I don't really either. 1852 01:41:04.560 --> 01:41:06.800 Vega van Dam he's the guy with the pink hair 1853 01:41:07.239 --> 01:41:09.800 that that like every time he moves, you get that 1854 01:41:09.880 --> 01:41:12.079 little like flash of light like he's uh like in 1855 01:41:12.199 --> 01:41:15.479 the classic cartoon sitcoms where that people smile on their 1856 01:41:15.520 --> 01:41:18.600 teeth kind of shimmer. You get that shine every time 1857 01:41:19.119 --> 01:41:21.079 it does that, and it makes this loud sound effect, 1858 01:41:21.960 --> 01:41:24.119 and after like several times of that happening, his goons 1859 01:41:24.159 --> 01:41:27.119 are like, dude, not get the hell off. That's so annoying. 1860 01:41:29.319 --> 01:41:29.920 That ship out. 1861 01:41:30.800 --> 01:41:33.279 Pretty much all the humor in this game is just 1862 01:41:33.399 --> 01:41:36.760 like center on the bosses for the most part. That's 1863 01:41:37.319 --> 01:41:38.960 that's so good. M hm. 1864 01:42:00.840 --> 01:42:04.159 So that's it. You're walking around through this through the landscape. 1865 01:42:04.199 --> 01:42:07.399 It's a little bit smaller than painful you're gonna do 1866 01:42:07.439 --> 01:42:10.640 a lot of backtracking through a lot of this. That's 1867 01:42:10.720 --> 01:42:12.159 just kind of the nature of things until you can 1868 01:42:12.199 --> 01:42:14.840 find where you need to go. Did you notice that 1869 01:42:14.960 --> 01:42:18.079 Buddy also hallucinated a little bit when she was walking around? 1870 01:42:18.560 --> 01:42:20.640 I don't think so, other than, of course, the little 1871 01:42:20.880 --> 01:42:23.079 flashes of the viscera in the background, which, by the way, 1872 01:42:23.159 --> 01:42:26.399 I thought, for some dumb reason, I kept interpreting that 1873 01:42:26.479 --> 01:42:28.760 as a yarn for some reason. But now it does 1874 01:42:28.840 --> 01:42:31.640 look like intestines and like guts and stuff. I don't 1875 01:42:31.680 --> 01:42:33.319 know why it was. I don't know why I would 1876 01:42:33.319 --> 01:42:33.960 think yarn. 1877 01:42:34.960 --> 01:42:38.640 I mean, what is the intestines if not the human yarn? 1878 01:42:39.279 --> 01:42:42.239 That's true, the yarn that carries our poop and stuff. 1879 01:42:42.279 --> 01:42:46.399 I guess you hear that, Marvel hire me. I could 1880 01:42:46.439 --> 01:42:50.520 do shit dialogue. Oh God, I'm glad this podcast isn't bigger, 1881 01:42:50.560 --> 01:42:53.720 otherwise I would upset the wrong people. Were there any 1882 01:42:53.800 --> 01:42:56.520 locations that you particularly liked? There was really only one 1883 01:42:56.960 --> 01:42:58.479 that I had anything to say about. 1884 01:42:59.159 --> 01:43:02.319 For me, is really only like the Pacifist village and 1885 01:43:03.920 --> 01:43:07.640 my boy Big Lincoln's Tower, because just of like, it's 1886 01:43:07.720 --> 01:43:11.920 just such a neat build up to his fight that 1887 01:43:12.079 --> 01:43:14.560 was pretty much it. I can't really nothing else really 1888 01:43:14.760 --> 01:43:15.680 stuck into my mind. 1889 01:43:16.399 --> 01:43:18.640 So you didn't find the Terry Village. 1890 01:43:19.000 --> 01:43:21.680 I don't think so. Well, maybe I did. No, I think. 1891 01:43:21.760 --> 01:43:23.760 I think what I'm thinking of is the where you 1892 01:43:23.800 --> 01:43:25.439 can go to activate easy mode or whatever. 1893 01:43:26.119 --> 01:43:29.560 Oh yeah, that's no, that's not Terry Hints, that's Larry's Stints. 1894 01:43:30.039 --> 01:43:31.600 No relation, My bad? 1895 01:43:32.840 --> 01:43:35.520 What does he say? I am not related to anybody 1896 01:43:35.760 --> 01:43:37.119 I may or may not resemble. 1897 01:43:37.520 --> 01:43:39.199 I took a screenshot of that. Let me find it 1898 01:43:39.279 --> 01:43:39.720 real

quick. 1899 01:43:41.000 --> 01:43:43.039 Okay, So you didn't find the Terry Hints Village. 1900 01:43:43.840 --> 01:43:46.039 No, I wish I did. I love Terry Hints. 1901 01:43:46.600 --> 01:43:50.039 So you find this village. There are only a couple 1902 01:43:50.159 --> 01:43:54.960 of little like huts houses, not really houses, huts, cave 1903 01:43:55.239 --> 01:44:00.439 things abodes. But you see Terry Hints's hint posters just reware. 1904 01:44:01.159 --> 01:44:03.079 And every once in a while you'll come across this 1905 01:44:03.319 --> 01:44:06.640 like a little doll of Terry, like somebody put up 1906 01:44:06.720 --> 01:44:08.880 like a stick like kind of like a Terry scarecrow, 1907 01:44:09.279 --> 01:44:10.119 a tear crow. 1908 01:44:10.159 --> 01:44:13.720 A tear crow, a tear craw. 1909 01:44:17.439 --> 01:44:19.479 And you find these notes and they start off very 1910 01:44:19.680 --> 01:44:23.199 very innocuous, like the first one says welcoming. Always be 1911 01:44:23.279 --> 01:44:27.920 courteous to guests from Tender Terry. Respect when entering a 1912 01:44:27.960 --> 01:44:30.560 new community, it's best to be polite. Do otherwise and 1913 01:44:30.640 --> 01:44:36.399 you'll get hanged. Tyrant Terry and they keep on like leadership. 1914 01:44:36.439 --> 01:44:38.640 It's not easy being an overlord, but it becomes easier 1915 01:44:38.680 --> 01:44:40.960 if if your fans like you. I know mine you 1916 01:44:41.239 --> 01:44:44.520 from King Terry. There's one about littering from eco Friendly 1917 01:44:44.640 --> 01:44:47.960 Terry fighting. Don't even waste your time here. I'm the 1918 01:44:48.039 --> 01:44:51.239 strongest one two Terry. But as you as you go 1919 01:44:51.319 --> 01:44:53.840 inside some of these houses, you see not only are 1920 01:44:53.920 --> 01:44:57.720 they completely empty, but the notes start to get weird, 1921 01:44:57.880 --> 01:45:01.560 Like one says loneliness. Having nobody in your life can 1922 01:45:01.600 --> 01:45:04.399 be tough, but having hobbies can fill the void from 1923 01:45:04.800 --> 01:45:08.199 terror cares. And then you start realizing, okay, Terry actually 1924 01:45:08.239 --> 01:45:12.479 made all of these these Terry scarecrows. The next note 1925 01:45:12.520 --> 01:45:15.840 says depression. I don't even know anymore. I need a 1926 01:45:15.920 --> 01:45:19.640 real friend. And then you find a couple more and 1927 01:45:19.960 --> 01:45:22.159 all it says is these are hard to read. It's 1928 01:45:22.239 --> 01:45:26.359 just furious scribbles and tears. So so you get this 1929 01:45:26.439 --> 01:45:30.479 little environmental storytelling of Terry having a mental breakdown that's good. 1930 01:45:31.000 --> 01:45:34.840 Poor Terry, My god, I know, I'm so sad. 1931 01:45:36.399 --> 01:45:39.640 He's a great dude. I think I think they added 1932 01:45:39.680 --> 01:45:42.359 more stuff with him in the definitive edition, like for Painful, 1933 01:45:43.319 --> 01:45:46.680 but don't quote me on that. I won't thank you. 1934 01:45:46.880 --> 01:45:49.600 I appreciate it. I'll take you to court. Oh shit, 1935 01:45:50.199 --> 01:45:50.920 podcast court. 1936 01:45:52.239 --> 01:45:52.359 Oh. 1937 01:45:52.439 --> 01:45:55.159 I had mentioned the hallucinations, and that's when the yarn 1938 01:45:55.239 --> 01:45:57.319 thing came up. The reason that I ask is that 1939 01:45:57.399 --> 01:46:00.600 as you defeat more of these of these dudes, these freaks, 1940 01:46:01.920 --> 01:46:04.760 Buddy will start to see Brad just kind of standing 1941 01:46:04.800 --> 01:46:08.840 around places, kind of like exactly like Brad did with 1942 01:46:09.000 --> 01:46:10.439 Lisa in Painful. 1943 01:46:11.000 --> 01:46:14.000 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Big old Marty. 1944 01:46:14.520 --> 01:46:17.720 Yeah, all of this. So you kill everybody, you know, 1945 01:46:17.800 --> 01:46:20.159 you're you're you're doing all this whenever you only have 1946 01:46:20.279 --> 01:46:23.720 like one left or so, you're gonna come upon Rando randomly. 1947 01:46:23.840 --> 01:46:25.720 He at one point he tries to convince you one 1948 01:46:25.760 --> 01:46:28.039 more time, like come on, Buddy, you gotta stop this, 1949 01:46:28.079 --> 01:46:30.359 blah blah blah blah, and Buddy lays down the law. 1950 01:46:30.439 --> 01:46:32.600 That's when she's like, look like, you're not changing my 1951 01:46:32.640 --> 01:46:34.760 mind enough with this shit. You're with me or against me, 1952 01:46:35.119 --> 01:46:38.159 and you know he says, okay, like you're right, Sis. 1953 01:46:38.680 --> 01:46:41.800 He starts calling her sis, which is really cute. That's 1954 01:46:41.840 --> 01:46:44.920 actually the only time that Buddy ever lets down her 1955 01:46:44.960 --> 01:46:48.279 facade for a minute is when he tells her that 1956 01:46:48.399 --> 01:46:51.800 his name is Dustin Armstrong and says that, you know, yeah, 1957 01:46:51.880 --> 01:46:54.680 Brad was my adopted dad. He didn't like when I 1958 01:46:54.720 --> 01:46:57.640 called him dad, And then Buddy says, yeah, he didn't 1959 01:46:57.720 --> 01:46:59.800 like that when I called him that either, And that's 1960 01:46:59.840 --> 01:47:01.800 the only time Buddy doesn't get mean with him. She's 1961 01:47:01.920 --> 01:47:03.680 just like, I don't want to talk about this, let's 1962 01:47:03.680 --> 01:47:07.800 go to sleep. But you find Rando here. He's strung 1963 01:47:07.920 --> 01:47:12.880 up on barbed wire hanging over this cliff, and the 1964 01:47:13.159 --> 01:47:15.359 barbed wire is attached to this tiny rock right in 1965 01:47:15.399 --> 01:47:17.279 front of you, so you grab it obviously because you 1966 01:47:17.279 --> 01:47:19.279 don't want him to die. And it was a setup 1967 01:47:19.359 --> 01:47:22.319 by this uh. I don't remember his name. He's that 1968 01:47:22.399 --> 01:47:26.119 dude from the beginning, and he just prefaces everything with 1969

01:47:26.439 --> 01:47:28.199 it's like Daddy always used to say, and then he 1970 01:47:28.319 --> 01:47:31.720 just says whatever he wants, which is a killer bit. 1971 01:47:31.920 --> 01:47:35.920 By the way, his name was like it was mister something. 1972 01:47:36.840 --> 01:47:39.159 I don't know one thing of somebody else. Actually fuck. 1973 01:47:39.239 --> 01:47:40.319 What is this guy's name? 1974 01:47:41.319 --> 01:47:42.479 I just called him daddy guy. 1975 01:47:43.239 --> 01:47:44.079 Yeah, that sounds good. 1976 01:47:45.760 --> 01:47:50.359 But he set this up, and this is it's hinted at, 1977 01:47:50.439 --> 01:47:53.960 But he set this up because he knew that no 1978 01:47:54.079 --> 01:47:56.079 matter what happened, he would get his way, Like either 1979 01:47:56.159 --> 01:47:59.359 Rando would die because she'd let him go, or she 1980 01:47:59.359 --> 01:48:02.560 wouldn't let it go. And because she couldn't let him 1981 01:48:02.600 --> 01:48:05.720 go and she'd be preoccupied, he could come up behind 1982 01:48:05.760 --> 01:48:09.439 her and you know, have his way with her. And 1983 01:48:09.560 --> 01:48:11.119 you get a choice here. You can let Rando go 1984 01:48:11.319 --> 01:48:12.840 or you can hold on. What did you choose? 1985 01:48:13.439 --> 01:48:14.279 I chose to hold on. 1986 01:48:15.079 --> 01:48:19.279 Yep, yeah, me too. If you let go, you eventually 1987 01:48:19.319 --> 01:48:22.560 get to the same point because Rando doesn't die, so 1988 01:48:22.840 --> 01:48:25.119 you don't you think he's going to, but he doesn't. 1989 01:48:26.119 --> 01:48:28.000 If you hold him, the camera will pan away as 1990 01:48:28.039 --> 01:48:29.720 the guy just walks over to you and it's just 1991 01:48:29.880 --> 01:48:34.159 quiet for a minute, which is pretty sinister if you 1992 01:48:34.279 --> 01:48:37.960 ask me, uh so, much more intense than if they 1993 01:48:38.079 --> 01:48:42.720 just like you know, said, what was anyway, you hear 1994 01:48:42.840 --> 01:48:46.600 this trumpet and the guy's like, hey, do you hear that? 1995 01:48:46.800 --> 01:48:50.039 And then a joy mutant comes in jumps in like 1996 01:48:50.319 --> 01:48:53.279 it's still everything's still off screen. You hear like biting, 1997 01:48:53.920 --> 01:48:56.520 and when it pans back over, Buddy is still holding Rando, 1998 01:48:56.760 --> 01:49:00.479 but Daddy Guy has been beheaded his his head was 1999 01:49:00.520 --> 01:49:04.119 chopped off, like chomped off. This Joy mutant somehow came 2000 01:49:04.159 --> 01:49:06.520 in and only killed that one guy, and Buddy and 2001 01:49:06.600 --> 01:49:07.840 Rando were like, what the hell happened? 2002 01:49:09.239 --> 01:49:09.800 Did that? Strike you? 2003 01:49:09.920 --> 01:49:11.600 Was weird at first, because I'm gonna be honest, when 2004 01:49:11.640 --> 01:49:13.920 I was first going through this, I it almost didn't 2005 01:49:13.960 --> 01:49:14.520 register to me. 2006 01:49:14.600 --> 01:49:18.520 I was like, huh, okay, yeah, because again painful. They'll 2007 01:49:18.520 --> 01:49:20.920 attack fucking anybody, like, they'll hop around the screen and 2008 01:49:21.000 --> 01:49:25.560 kill whoever. But I guess like toward the end, maybe 2009 01:49:25.640 --> 01:49:28.720 we kind of find out what's happening here. But yeah, yeah, 2010 01:49:29.079 --> 01:49:31.600 but before the end, I was like, I was thinking 2011 01:49:31.760 --> 01:49:33.279 the same thing, what the hell? 2012 01:49:33.720 --> 01:49:36.840 Oh yeah, And if you're replaying this, if you're an 2013 01:49:36.880 --> 01:49:39.600 eagle eyed player, you might notice it's the same exact 2014 01:49:39.640 --> 01:49:40.720 Joy mutant from the beginning. 2015 01:49:41.279 --> 01:49:43.760 Oh yeah, Sweetheart or whatever, mm hmm. 2016 01:49:44.000 --> 01:49:47.600 Canonical name is Sweetheart. But if you're holding Rando still, 2017 01:49:48.000 --> 01:49:50.920 he confesses something to you. He says that the kidnapping 2018 01:49:50.960 --> 01:49:53.239 that happened in the beginning he set it up. It 2019 01:49:53.319 --> 01:49:56.359 was all his plan. He doesn't really explain. He tries to. 2020 01:49:56.439 --> 01:49:58.920 He's like, Buddy, you have to understand, you know, and 2021 01:49:59.000 --> 01:50:00.680 he tries to, I was trying to put you love him, 2022 01:50:00.680 --> 01:50:03.319 and Buddy ends up just dropping him. She lets him go, 2023 01:50:03.680 --> 01:50:06.159 and at first you think he's dead. But if you 2024 01:50:06.279 --> 01:50:10.119 go down to the cliff where he falls, you can 2025 01:50:10.319 --> 01:50:13.279 talk to him. He's still alive. But this is where 2026 01:50:14.239 --> 01:50:16.760 if you talk to him here, this is where the 2027 01:50:17.439 --> 01:50:19.920 decision to trust or not trust comes into play, and 2028 01:50:19.960 --> 01:50:23.079 this scene will play out a little differently. So you 2029 01:50:23.199 --> 01:50:27.039 trusted him, right, yeah? Yeah, so if we both trusted him, 2030 01:50:27.359 --> 01:50:30.520 So I don't know, do you wanna do you want 2031 01:50:30.560 --> 01:50:32.640 to talk about what happened and like how you felt 2032 01:50:32.680 --> 01:50:32.960 about it? 2033 01:50:33.560 --> 01:50:36.319 Yeah? So the scene I got was you were down there, 2034 01:50:36.479 --> 01:50:40.880 Buddy's talking to Rando and he's I forget exactly what 2035 01:50:41.079 --> 01:50:44.760 he says, but basically he says a lot of shit, 2036 01:50:44.800 --> 01:50:49.000 basically borderline brad type shit where yeah, of course he 2037 01:50:49.079 --> 01:50:52.000 was in on the kidnapping, basically saying that he set 2038 01:50:52.039 --> 01:50:55.840 up the kidnapping because she has, uh, she has a 2039 01:50:55.920 --> 01:50:59.199 duty to fulfill, not like maybe that's not the best 2040 01:50:59.279 --> 01:51:01.079 word but she has she has a role to fill. 2041 01:51:01.279 --> 01:51:04.119 She

has you know, she's the last woman. She's got, 2042 01:51:04.199 --> 01:51:05.680 she's got ship that she needs to well, not the 2043 01:51:05.680 --> 01:51:08.239 shit she needs to do. But he says some borderline 2044 01:51:08.279 --> 01:51:11.479 brad shit, still trying to basically keep you contained because 2045 01:51:11.640 --> 01:51:14.079 you need to repopulate the world. You need to do this, 2046 01:51:14.239 --> 01:51:16.800 you need to do that, basically commanding her, not really 2047 01:51:16.840 --> 01:51:20.199 giving her a choice, and like anything, Yeah, buddy slits 2048 01:51:20.239 --> 01:51:22.880 his throat or yeah, I think that's what it was. 2049 01:51:22.960 --> 01:51:25.680 She slits his throat and he's done. He's dead. 2050 01:51:26.239 --> 01:51:28.960 Yeah, yeah, it ends with her slitting him his throat. 2051 01:51:29.039 --> 01:51:32.039 But she starts just by beating the shit out of him, 2052 01:51:32.079 --> 01:51:34.439 and she calls him Brad because that's like, that's what 2053 01:51:34.520 --> 01:51:37.880 she's hearing. She's hearing him say I want to protect you. 2054 01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:40.039 I want you to be safe. And she's like, she 2055 01:51:40.159 --> 01:51:41.720 repeats that, and she's like, is that right, and he 2056 01:51:41.800 --> 01:51:44.880 says yeah, you know. So she starts beating the shit 2057 01:51:44.920 --> 01:51:47.640 out of him. She's like, I hate you, Brad, you know, 2058 01:51:47.720 --> 01:51:50.359 and again this is the flashes of the of the yarn, 2059 01:51:50.720 --> 01:51:55.720 the joy mutation, and she slits his throat. What's cool, though, 2060 01:51:55.840 --> 01:51:57.760 is if you chose not to trust him in the beginning. 2061 01:51:57.800 --> 01:52:01.279 When she comes down here, she's not near pissed. She's like, yeah, 2062 01:52:01.479 --> 01:52:03.279 I never really trusted you, so I kind of figured 2063 01:52:03.319 --> 01:52:06.520 this would happen. And I don't quite remember what she 2064 01:52:06.600 --> 01:52:08.720 says exactly, but it's something to the effect of like, 2065 01:52:08.920 --> 01:52:11.600 you know, I expected this. You know, you're just you're 2066 01:52:11.680 --> 01:52:13.920 doing what you're you were gonna do. Nobody else would 2067 01:52:13.920 --> 01:52:16.600 have done different, Like I, it's fine, don't worry, I'll 2068 01:52:16.640 --> 01:52:19.079 take care of things. I'm gonna make this quick. And 2069 01:52:19.159 --> 01:52:20.279 then she just kills them. 2070 01:52:20.800 --> 01:52:21.079 Shit. 2071 01:52:21.800 --> 01:52:24.000 Yeah, yeah, I mean so it's not all that different. 2072 01:52:24.039 --> 01:52:26.319 But I thought that was pretty interesting, Like she wasn't mad, 2073 01:52:27.000 --> 01:52:28.800 and in some ways she was a little more humane 2074 01:52:28.840 --> 01:52:30.920 about it. She was like, don't worry, like this will 2075 01:52:30.960 --> 01:52:35.359 be over very quickly. And that's it. Rando's dead, Randa's done. 2076 01:53:01.279 --> 01:53:03.119 So that's about it. We're getting to the end of 2077 01:53:03.199 --> 01:53:06.520 the game, we're wrapping it all up, and this ends. 2078 01:53:06.760 --> 01:53:09.840 This ends. I have a lot of mixed feelings about 2079 01:53:09.920 --> 01:53:13.680 the ending of this. Actually, So the ending here, we've 2080 01:53:13.760 --> 01:53:16.000 killed all of the Buddy has killed all of the 2081 01:53:16.199 --> 01:53:20.159 list bosses, Big Lincoln's dead, We've sent Big Lincoln to hell. 2082 01:53:20.319 --> 01:53:21.479 Everybody else is dead. 2083 01:53:21.720 --> 01:53:22.720 Good, ridden dude. 2084 01:53:23.159 --> 01:53:26.159 And at this point it's kind of cool the way 2085 01:53:26.239 --> 01:53:30.319 that that it's presented. You don't know what's reality anymore 2086 01:53:30.319 --> 01:53:32.600 and what isn't because right at the top of the list, 2087 01:53:32.680 --> 01:53:35.840 you've got Brad and Randa looking down. Both of them 2088 01:53:35.960 --> 01:53:41.760 are dead more or less. They're looking down. Blood bodies, 2089 01:53:42.399 --> 01:53:47.439 viscera just speckle the landscape and they it's it's funny. 2090 01:53:47.760 --> 01:53:50.840 There are daisies or flowers of some sort blooming out 2091 01:53:50.920 --> 01:53:54.119 of the of the ground. It's it's the same flower 2092 01:53:54.199 --> 01:53:56.840 that Brad gave Buddy when she was a baby, but 2093 01:53:56.920 --> 01:53:59.399 it's blooming out of the ground and blooming too, are 2094 01:53:59.520 --> 01:54:04.039 like and corpses in cadavers. It's it's this really like hellish, 2095 01:54:04.439 --> 01:54:07.279 almost Lynchian kind of kind of presentation, and you don't 2096 01:54:07.319 --> 01:54:09.640 know what's real and what's not anymore. And it doesn't 2097 01:54:09.640 --> 01:54:12.479 help either because you get that clumsy like you remember 2098 01:54:12.640 --> 01:54:16.199 that clumsy trumpet melody that's just kind of waddling and 2099 01:54:16.319 --> 01:54:21.399 doddling around. Oh yeah, coming here, And so you walk 2100 01:54:21.479 --> 01:54:24.079 to the left like you do in video games, and 2101 01:54:24.199 --> 01:54:26.800 you see that the trumpets being played by this guy 2102 01:54:27.279 --> 01:54:31.880 were you, So were you expecting one for this, for 2103 01:54:32.000 --> 01:54:34.439 that trumpet music to be part of the game, And 2104 01:54:34.600 --> 01:54:38.199 two did you ever find him before? I think there's 2105 01:54:38.239 --> 01:54:40.239 at least one spot you can find him before. 2106 01:54:41.800 --> 01:54:44.960 No, I didn't encounter him at all. I've read a 2107 01:54:45.000 --> 01:54:49.159 few things that that you can see doctor Yato, not 2108 01:54:49.520 --> 01:54:51.560 like in the distance, but you can spot him a 2109 01:54:51.640 --> 01:54:55.239 couple places throughout Painful. But U No, I never did 2110 01:54:55.279 --> 01:54:59.399 see him in enjoy Fly. Also

didn't expect the ending 2111 01:54:59.520 --> 01:55:01.680 to be like the side. I didn't expect the trumpet 2112 01:55:01.720 --> 01:55:04.399 to be tied into the story like this either. It's 2113 01:55:05.039 --> 01:55:05.960 it's quite the choice. 2114 01:55:06.840 --> 01:55:09.560 Yeah. Yeah, And by the way, for what it's worth, 2115 01:55:09.600 --> 01:55:12.880 I only saw him in Painful myself, which I actually 2116 01:55:12.960 --> 01:55:16.279 I restarted a playthrough of Painful, and I've already gotten 2117 01:55:16.319 --> 01:55:17.960 a couple of dudes that I never got before. 2118 01:55:18.640 --> 01:55:19.760 Nice. Nice. 2119 01:55:20.079 --> 01:55:22.880 Yeah, I don't think I ever got the rooster man. 2120 01:55:23.079 --> 01:55:23.319 I don't. 2121 01:55:23.319 --> 01:55:25.199 I don't think I ever got him, or the the 2122 01:55:25.399 --> 01:55:28.000 luchador wrestler that does the same sort of diala combo 2123 01:55:28.079 --> 01:55:30.239 that Brad does. Never got out of them before. 2124 01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:32.720 Oh was he the one that bodies slam? Or no, 2125 01:55:32.920 --> 01:55:36.000 he headbuts everything, or oh, yeah, it's this thing. Okay, 2126 01:55:36.359 --> 01:55:37.359 Yeah he's not too bad. 2127 01:55:37.560 --> 01:55:40.279 Yeah yeah, he's pretty cool. He's a joy addict, so 2128 01:55:40.399 --> 01:55:43.119 it you have to manage that, oh the whole damn it. 2129 01:55:45.000 --> 01:55:46.880 So okay, I I have a question for you. How 2130 01:55:46.920 --> 01:55:52.119 do you feel about the game sort of explaining everything 2131 01:55:52.920 --> 01:55:55.800 that painful had kept a mystery, Like do you do 2132 01:55:55.920 --> 01:55:58.960 you find this? Do you find this satisfying to understand 2133 01:55:59.039 --> 01:56:02.640 like how this this universe is working? Or do you 2134 01:56:02.720 --> 01:56:05.199 think keeping it a mystery would have been better? In 2135 01:56:05.359 --> 01:56:05.840 some ways? 2136 01:56:06.760 --> 01:56:09.520 Man, I'm kind of torn. Like on when I first 2137 01:56:09.720 --> 01:56:13.920 beat the game, I thought, Okay, he's he's just basically 2138 01:56:14.279 --> 01:56:16.800 ending the world so he can rule it. But I 2139 01:56:16.880 --> 01:56:19.520 feel like it now that I've seen the ending, I 2140 01:56:19.600 --> 01:56:23.920 kind of have more questions than I have answers, to 2141 01:56:24.000 --> 01:56:25.840 be honest, So yeah, I think it should have just 2142 01:56:26.119 --> 01:56:28.720 been left amistery, Like, I mean, sure, yeah, now the 2143 01:56:28.760 --> 01:56:32.800 world has ended because everybody's joy Muden's and everybody else 2144 01:56:32.920 --> 01:56:35.479 is dead, But like, how do you how are you 2145 01:56:35.479 --> 01:56:36.279 gonna rule that? 2146 01:56:36.520 --> 01:56:39.960 I mean, yeah, that's that's one of my biggest problems 2147 01:56:40.039 --> 01:56:43.880 with him, him being Austin Jorgensen, choosing to lay this 2148 01:56:44.000 --> 01:56:47.960 all out is that doctor Yado is not really that 2149 01:56:48.119 --> 01:56:51.359 compelling of a villain. I mean, he's he's kind of 2150 01:56:51.439 --> 01:56:53.640 just a comic book villain. He wants to see the 2151 01:56:53.680 --> 01:56:56.439 world burn and that's that's sort of it. 2152 01:56:57.399 --> 01:57:00.119 Yeah. Even his fights are lame as shit too. I mean, 2153 01:57:00.159 --> 01:57:02.199 he doesn't if you want to call it a fight, 2154 01:57:02.239 --> 01:57:05.079 because it's just you hitting him over and over until 2155 01:57:05.119 --> 01:57:08.319 the fight just kind of ends. And it's weird that 2156 01:57:08.680 --> 01:57:12.039 he was just kind of shoehorned in right at the end. 2157 01:57:12.239 --> 01:57:15.039 Like you, there was maybe a couple of little bits 2158 01:57:15.079 --> 01:57:17.760 of him sprinkled here and there throughout Painful. I think 2159 01:57:17.800 --> 01:57:20.560 there was like maybe one mention of him in dialogue 2160 01:57:20.600 --> 01:57:24.399 and painful but enjoyful, you know. I mean, you can 2161 01:57:24.439 --> 01:57:27.239 go to this other than going to his lab. He's 2162 01:57:27.279 --> 01:57:29.640 just pushed it, shoved right into the end. I don't know. 2163 01:57:29.840 --> 01:57:32.479 I think it is kind of just too much. It's 2164 01:57:32.640 --> 01:57:35.479 it's way too much and not a lot of time. 2165 01:57:35.960 --> 01:57:37.960 I have no idea if this was added for the 2166 01:57:38.039 --> 01:57:40.640 definitive edition. But do you remember in the beginning of Painful, 2167 01:57:40.680 --> 01:57:42.640 when Brad gets beat up as a kid and you're 2168 01:57:42.680 --> 01:57:46.399 walking home. Yeah, if you keep going past your house 2169 01:57:46.439 --> 01:57:49.319 to the right, you can see Doctor Yado before. He's 2170 01:57:49.399 --> 01:57:51.359 like an old old man. He's just kind of like 2171 01:57:51.479 --> 01:57:53.920 a like a forty year old kind of old man, 2172 01:57:54.079 --> 01:57:57.199 you know, young old man. And he's standing there, he's 2173 01:57:57.279 --> 01:57:59.800 kind of like jacked. It almost looks like he's sitting 2174 01:57:59.840 --> 01:58:01.960 there in a suit. And if you talk to him, 2175 01:58:01.960 --> 01:58:05.159 he just says oletha dot dot dot. It's perfect. So 2176 01:58:05.479 --> 01:58:09.439 if if that wasn't added in the definitive edition, then this, 2177 01:58:09.920 --> 01:58:11.960 I mean, then he had this plan from the start. 2178 01:58:12.199 --> 01:58:14.920 But even still I think, uh, I don't have I 2179 01:58:14.960 --> 01:58:17.359 don't even have a problem with doctor Yaddo being behind 2180 01:58:17.439 --> 01:58:23.880 at all. It's more so like why the execution, Yeah, exactly, 2181 01:58:24.000 --> 01:58:26.199 like why why he just wants to He just wants 2182 01:58:26.239 --> 01:58:29.800 to blow stuff up. I mean it's kefka right, that's 2183 01:58:30.439 --> 01:58:32.119

except not as charismatic and. 2184 01:58:32.199 --> 01:58:38.000 Cool, definitely not as entertaining like him kind of just 2185 01:58:38.119 --> 01:58:40.960 being like, oh, hey, I'm your dad actually to buddy 2186 01:58:41.079 --> 01:58:44.000 like right there at the end. I don't because what 2187 01:58:44.159 --> 01:58:48.399 is it he basically bred buddy to be. You won't 2188 01:58:48.439 --> 01:58:50.359 to know if you want to even just explain it 2189 01:58:50.520 --> 01:58:53.319 like that, I don't know. Give a fifty to fifty 2190 01:58:53.319 --> 01:58:54.800 shot again, a boy, what if it was what if 2191 01:58:54.800 --> 01:58:56.359 Buddy had been a boy instead of a girl. I 2192 01:58:56.399 --> 01:58:59.520 don't know, there's just so many questions I had. 2193 01:58:59.840 --> 01:59:02.039 I'm not quite sure it's I guess it's possible it 2194 01:59:02.079 --> 01:59:05.399 could have been planned after her birth and it kept 2195 01:59:05.439 --> 01:59:08.359 in a contingency before then, like you know in case 2196 01:59:08.399 --> 01:59:11.399 of girl break this glass kind of deal. But that 2197 01:59:11.920 --> 01:59:14.359 but that is like, that's the gist of it. To 2198 01:59:14.439 --> 01:59:19.680 summarize what Aaron said, Buddy was born from doctor Yotto 2199 01:59:19.760 --> 01:59:23.960 and her mom, and she was intentionally placed into this 2200 01:59:24.399 --> 01:59:27.680 Oleitha to start a war. Like he placed her there, 2201 01:59:28.319 --> 01:59:32.319 he killed, He kills Buddy's mom afterwards. You can hear 2202 01:59:32.439 --> 01:59:35.439 that implied in one of these epilogues that we'll talk about. 2203 01:59:36.399 --> 01:59:40.000 And somehow I'm glad they didn't try to explain this 2204 01:59:40.159 --> 01:59:43.359 because this would have been total malarchy. But doctor Yotto 2205 01:59:43.399 --> 01:59:46.560 can control the joy mutants with his trumpet, which anytime 2206 01:59:46.600 --> 01:59:50.199 you hear that in the in the game, technically that's canonical. 2207 01:59:50.680 --> 01:59:52.239 And you can see him a couple of times, like 2208 01:59:52.279 --> 01:59:55.159 you had said, Aaron, and painful and that's what he's 2209 01:59:55.159 --> 01:59:57.239 gonna do to you. Now, I do kind of like 2210 01:59:57.319 --> 01:59:59.479 what he does. He when Buddy walks up to him. 2211 01:59:59.600 --> 02:00:02.279 She's like, all right, like you're the last man left, 2212 02:00:03.000 --> 02:00:05.079 you're the only one you're not standing in my way, 2213 02:00:05.159 --> 02:00:07.720 Like what's going on? You gotta tell me? And he 2214 02:00:07.920 --> 02:00:11.960 just goes no, like this isn't this isn't the plan. 2215 02:00:12.039 --> 02:00:13.000 You're not supposed to be here. 2216 02:00:13.279 --> 02:00:14.399 No. Uh. 2217 02:00:14.680 --> 02:00:16.520 And I think that's pretty cool instead of just having 2218 02:00:16.560 --> 02:00:18.399 like the bad guy kind of have a breakdown and say, 2219 02:00:18.479 --> 02:00:20.560 but this was my plan and this was when you 2220 02:00:20.640 --> 02:00:22.279 came in and foiled it, and you know all that 2221 02:00:22.399 --> 02:00:23.800 kind of stuff. I thought that was nice. 2222 02:00:24.319 --> 02:00:25.479 Yeah, I think it is too. 2223 02:00:26.159 --> 02:00:28.520 But he plays a little he plays a little Latin jazz, 2224 02:00:28.640 --> 02:00:32.439 a little beat, and you have to fight, sweetheart, that 2225 02:00:32.760 --> 02:00:35.319 joy mutant from the beginning, and the joy mutant that 2226 02:00:35.479 --> 02:00:39.159 decapitated the guy that was the daddy guy. We could say, 2227 02:00:39.640 --> 02:00:40.600 the daddy guy. 2228 02:00:41.039 --> 02:00:43.239 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just like dad. 2229 02:00:43.319 --> 02:00:48.520 He used to say, he's the daddy guy. A Buzzo. 2230 02:00:48.800 --> 02:00:50.720 It's just like in the beginning, Buzzer will step into 2231 02:00:50.720 --> 02:00:54.600 handle things and he'll tell you, you know, the auto's 2232 02:00:54.600 --> 02:00:58.920 got a vaccine, Go get him, take care, Go take 2233 02:00:59.159 --> 02:01:01.199 take that vaccine and then take it. And you do 2234 02:01:01.359 --> 02:01:03.199 you You go up to him. This starts the final 2235 02:01:03.279 --> 02:01:05.840 fight with Yato. You go up to him. He's sitting 2236 02:01:05.880 --> 02:01:11.239 on this giant, flesh rotting, mutated flesh patchwork of a throne, 2237 02:01:12.199 --> 02:01:14.079 and I love the little flourish that they do. The 2238 02:01:14.199 --> 02:01:17.239 throne has this little uh I don't even want to 2239 02:01:17.279 --> 02:01:19.520 call it a hand or a or a like a 2240 02:01:20.159 --> 02:01:22.840 like a throne desk thing. It's holding the trumpet for 2241 02:01:23.039 --> 02:01:25.439 doctor Yatto. I thought that was kind of cool. But ye, 2242 02:01:26.239 --> 02:01:28.079 you walk up to him and you're like, you're gonna 2243 02:01:28.079 --> 02:01:31.399 tell me or I'm gonna kill you, and you don't 2244 02:01:31.399 --> 02:01:33.960 actually say that. I forget what you say. But he turns. 2245 02:01:34.199 --> 02:01:35.720 He won't look you in the eye, and he's like, 2246 02:01:36.279 --> 02:01:37.960 you better stop or I'm gonna have to kill you, 2247 02:01:38.520 --> 02:01:40.840 And Buddy calls his shit. She's like, you can't even 2248 02:01:40.880 --> 02:01:42.720 look me in the eye. You're the most pathetic man here. 2249 02:01:42.880 --> 02:01:46.079 And I've taken down Big Lincoln. You know. So you 2250 02:01:46.119 --> 02:01:46.880 didn't link this fight. 2251 02:01:47.399 --> 02:01:49.119 I didn't. I mean, I didn't mind it. It's just 2252 02:01:49.199 --> 02:01:52.560 that doctor Yado is in. He's kind of a well, 2253 02:01:52.600 --> 02:01:54.880 I mean, I don't want to say he's a nothing villain, 2254 02:01:55.000 --> 02:01:57.479 but I feel like they they could have maybe built 2255 02:01:57.520 --> 02:01:59.359 him up a little

bit more. But no, because I 2256 02:01:59.359 --> 02:02:01.399 guess that would have I would have taken away some 2257 02:02:01.479 --> 02:02:05.119 of the mystery behind him. You get that big rush 2258 02:02:05.159 --> 02:02:07.840 of him at the end. I'm still so torn on 2259 02:02:07.880 --> 02:02:11.399 this whole thing, man. Also, what why the vaccine? Did 2260 02:02:11.439 --> 02:02:15.319 he did he see himself at one point becoming addicted 2261 02:02:15.439 --> 02:02:19.000 to joy and then eventually becoming a mutant? Or like, 2262 02:02:19.079 --> 02:02:20.880 what was the point of the vaccine? Like if he 2263 02:02:20.960 --> 02:02:24.319 really wanted to watch the world burn? Why why have it? 2264 02:02:24.399 --> 02:02:29.359 I don't know, so from what I can remember, there 2265 02:02:29.439 --> 02:02:33.479 were a few things left unanswered in the original game 2266 02:02:33.800 --> 02:02:38.239 of the non definitive edition, and there was exclusive Definitive 2267 02:02:38.359 --> 02:02:40.720 Edition stuff added in, which is why I started a 2268 02:02:40.760 --> 02:02:44.720 whole new play through. The definitive stuff in Joyful is 2269 02:02:44.840 --> 02:02:49.479 so stupidly unintuitive to get, like you basically have You're 2270 02:02:49.520 --> 02:02:52.119 not gonna get it by accident, that kind of thing. 2271 02:02:53.319 --> 02:02:57.399 So I didn't do it. And maybe what I'll do 2272 02:02:57.600 --> 02:02:59.239 is if I can find an answer to this, I'll 2273 02:02:59.439 --> 02:03:01.520 patch it in afterwards in the edit. 2274 02:03:01.920 --> 02:03:03.239 Okay, that sounds good. 2275 02:03:03.680 --> 02:03:05.119 Yeah, Because I don't know either. 2276 02:03:06.760 --> 02:03:08.199 Man, I don't know how to feel about it. It's 2277 02:03:08.239 --> 02:03:12.279 just it's just so confusing. He's his whole, his whole 2278 02:03:12.359 --> 02:03:16.920 rigamarole behind when end the world is interesting, but I 2279 02:03:16.960 --> 02:03:19.760 don't know if it even really needs to be there. Yeah, 2280 02:03:19.880 --> 02:03:21.760 he's not bad. I'll leave it at that. 2281 02:03:22.840 --> 02:03:26.520 Yeah, you do go through some psychosis's Buddy throughout this 2282 02:03:26.760 --> 02:03:30.239 ending here you realize that because this the game tells you, like, 2283 02:03:30.319 --> 02:03:32.319 Buddy's head starts to hurt, and that's when the fight 2284 02:03:32.399 --> 02:03:35.199 with Yatto begins. Then you get the message Buddy can't 2285 02:03:35.199 --> 02:03:38.439 control it. And then doctor Yato transforms into like a 2286 02:03:38.760 --> 02:03:42.359 flesh joy mutant version of Rando, except he's not fighting you. 2287 02:03:42.439 --> 02:03:44.600 He's just holding a flower and like healing you. You 2288 02:03:44.760 --> 02:03:47.279 like that kind of thing, and it sort of culminates 2289 02:03:47.560 --> 02:03:52.720 with a psychosis induced fight against Brad throughout the ages, 2290 02:03:53.119 --> 02:03:56.000 and this is like, I forget exactly what I said before. 2291 02:03:57.520 --> 02:04:00.319 It feels like we recorded like days ago or something, 2292 02:04:00.840 --> 02:04:06.439 but I forget exactly what I said. But there are 2293 02:04:06.520 --> 02:04:09.199 there are a couple of scenes in this game that really, 2294 02:04:09.840 --> 02:04:12.520 you know, I like them despite not loving the whole game. 2295 02:04:12.640 --> 02:04:16.479 This is one of those scenes. This I think narratively 2296 02:04:16.680 --> 02:04:19.359 there is an argument for it not being here, but 2297 02:04:20.199 --> 02:04:23.520 damn if playing it again wasn't just it wasn't just 2298 02:04:23.840 --> 02:04:24.600 choke inducing. 2299 02:04:25.319 --> 02:04:27.560 Yeah. Well, I I completely forget a lot of the 2300 02:04:27.600 --> 02:04:31.119 stuff that Brad said, or the hallucination of Brad said 2301 02:04:31.199 --> 02:04:32.800 during this fight. But now that I'm reading it, what 2302 02:04:32.880 --> 02:04:36.279 you've gotten written down? Yeah that was. Yeah, that was 2303 02:04:36.359 --> 02:04:40.880 some powerful shit that he said. Who was the last one? Oh? Yeah, 2304 02:04:40.920 --> 02:04:42.840 there we go. I really did love you with all 2305 02:04:42.920 --> 02:04:46.479 my heart. That part was that was tough to sit through. 2306 02:04:47.000 --> 02:04:49.000 Yeah. You you go through the fight. It's not an 2307 02:04:49.039 --> 02:04:51.520 actual fight, it's just storytelling. But you go through the fight. 2308 02:04:51.680 --> 02:04:54.640 You know, you fight young Brad and the messages will 2309 02:04:54.640 --> 02:04:57.399 say Brad is lost, and you get these you get 2310 02:04:57.439 --> 02:05:00.279 these interludes Buddy, yep, Buddy, that's the best I could 2311 02:05:00.319 --> 02:05:02.239 come up with. Well, it's simple. You're my little buddy. 2312 02:05:02.239 --> 02:05:03.880 I always called you that when you were a baby, 2313 02:05:03.920 --> 02:05:07.479 and I guess it just stuck Brad and buddy sounds good. 2314 02:05:08.359 --> 02:05:11.520 And you get these interludes between each stage between young 2315 02:05:11.600 --> 02:05:15.239 Brad older Brad. The one that's stung the most was like, 2316 02:05:15.760 --> 02:05:18.600 after this next phase, he'll you get the message, stop 2317 02:05:18.920 --> 02:05:20.840 don't call me that. I don't like it. My name 2318 02:05:20.920 --> 02:05:23.840 is Brad. Okay, Brad, you know, like he didn't like 2319 02:05:23.880 --> 02:05:26.760 to be called dad, and that leads into the fight 2320 02:05:26.880 --> 02:05:28.960 against the version of Brad where he's all done up 2321 02:05:29.039 --> 02:05:31.880 in Buddy's makeup and he's like it's the only sprite 2322 02:05:31.920 --> 02:05:35.520 of him where he's ever smiling. Man. That stings that. 2323 02:05:35.800 --> 02:05:37.640 Yeah, God damn man. 2324 02:05:38.239 --> 02:05:43.239 It progresses to Brad mean shirtless called the

nobody. All 2325 02:05:43.279 --> 02:05:46.239 he does is cry and hate himself, is what you know. 2326 02:05:46.720 --> 02:05:50.239 You get there, and yeah, the full quote that you 2327 02:05:50.399 --> 02:05:53.159 had alluded to is at the very end. It's sort 2328 02:05:53.159 --> 02:05:58.199 of this final reconciliation with Buddy. You know, Brad spent 2329 02:05:58.319 --> 02:06:03.039 the entirety of Painful so self absorbed in this selfish 2330 02:06:03.199 --> 02:06:08.640 idea of what it means to be redemptive and confusing 2331 02:06:08.680 --> 02:06:13.159 his own personal redemption arc with self sacrifice and with 2332 02:06:13.720 --> 02:06:16.960 the good of Buddy's life. You know, that's kind of 2333 02:06:17.239 --> 02:06:20.439 a big theme of that game. So here, even if 2334 02:06:20.479 --> 02:06:23.039 it is psychosis induced, this is her coming to terms 2335 02:06:23.079 --> 02:06:27.319 with it, and Brad to her says, quote, you have 2336 02:06:27.479 --> 02:06:29.920 to know this, Buddy, I was completely lost before I 2337 02:06:30.039 --> 02:06:33.239 found you. You made me feel something again things no 2338 02:06:33.359 --> 02:06:36.439 one has ever made me feel. You showed me what 2339 02:06:36.640 --> 02:06:39.840 love really is. And that's why When I look into 2340 02:06:39.880 --> 02:06:42.720 your eyes, it's the scariest feeling in the world. It's 2341 02:06:42.760 --> 02:06:45.760 why I buried myself so deep into the darkness. But 2342 02:06:45.880 --> 02:06:48.439 I promise you, I tried so hard to fight it. 2343 02:06:48.800 --> 02:06:52.800 I tried, and no matter what, I really did love 2344 02:06:52.880 --> 02:06:55.880 you with all my heart. I'm so sorry I failed you. 2345 02:06:56.960 --> 02:07:13.119 I miss you so much. It's it's tough. And you 2346 02:07:13.239 --> 02:07:16.279 know you're you. You said this earlier in the episode. 2347 02:07:16.359 --> 02:07:18.439 You you have a child, You you are a father. 2348 02:07:19.560 --> 02:07:23.000 I have to imagine this is much different reading this 2349 02:07:23.119 --> 02:07:26.800 from your perspective, with your perspective to view rat as 2350 02:07:26.880 --> 02:07:29.600 a as a sort of surrogate adoptive father. 2351 02:07:30.520 --> 02:07:36.000 Yeah, and yeah, it's tough, man, Like this all feels 2352 02:07:36.079 --> 02:07:38.600 like stuff. Of course I would say to my kid, 2353 02:07:38.720 --> 02:07:42.039 but it's yeah, it's we're trying to take How the 2354 02:07:42.159 --> 02:07:45.359 hell do I explain this? Like I get where he's 2355 02:07:45.439 --> 02:07:49.159 coming from with all of that, but what what was 2356 02:07:49.199 --> 02:07:51.159 the word for it? Yeah? I get where he's coming 2357 02:07:51.199 --> 02:07:54.520 from with all of that as a dad, but god 2358 02:07:54.600 --> 02:07:58.000 damn the part about uh worse that one more time. Yeah, 2359 02:07:58.079 --> 02:07:59.680 when I look at your eyes, the scariest feeling in 2360 02:07:59.720 --> 02:08:02.520 the world. That's why I buried myself so deep into 2361 02:08:02.600 --> 02:08:05.399 the darkness. Like it's yeah, it's it's so easy to 2362 02:08:05.479 --> 02:08:06.279 do that, man. 2363 02:08:06.239 --> 02:08:09.119 But yeah, I imagine it's one of those things where 2364 02:08:09.920 --> 02:08:11.680 there's no right answer. You can't just look up a 2365 02:08:11.800 --> 02:08:14.920 manual online like you can with like how to how 2366 02:08:14.960 --> 02:08:17.159 to use reaper or how to make a podcast. It's 2367 02:08:17.279 --> 02:08:19.560 like there is there is no how to podcast, to 2368 02:08:20.199 --> 02:08:20.960 to raise a daughter. 2369 02:08:21.560 --> 02:08:25.159 Yeah, it just what hurts the most with with Brad's case, 2370 02:08:25.279 --> 02:08:29.520 like he tried his best, Like he tried, like you said, 2371 02:08:29.600 --> 02:08:33.680 he tried so hard, but of course sees these damaged 2372 02:08:33.720 --> 02:08:38.640 goods and he just he all he wanted was to 2373 02:08:39.760 --> 02:08:41.840 love Buddy and then make her feel loved and in 2374 02:08:41.920 --> 02:08:47.159 turn feel loved himself. But he's just so so deeply 2375 02:08:47.840 --> 02:08:50.399 fucked up that I don't know, I don't know if 2376 02:08:50.439 --> 02:08:53.720 I mean, I don't know if he's incapable of feeling 2377 02:08:53.920 --> 02:08:57.880 love or being loved. But yeah, he tries so hard 2378 02:08:58.039 --> 02:09:01.640 that that's the one part that uh, looking at looking 2379 02:09:01.640 --> 02:09:05.359 at his whole dialogue, that's it hurts the most. He's 2380 02:09:05.399 --> 02:09:07.840 trying so hard, so hard, buddy. 2381 02:09:08.680 --> 02:09:11.159 Yeah, that's the tragedy of it all is that he 2382 02:09:12.039 --> 02:09:14.319 really did try, he tried to beat his addiction, and 2383 02:09:14.439 --> 02:09:18.039 he tried to beat the trauma and the abuse that 2384 02:09:18.359 --> 02:09:23.439 came from his dad Marty, and the guilt over feeling 2385 02:09:23.560 --> 02:09:27.399 like he basically killed his sister, even though that's not 2386 02:09:27.520 --> 02:09:30.840 what happened. He did try, but he was dealt a 2387 02:09:30.920 --> 02:09:33.720 really shitty hand and he just didn't have the resources 2388 02:09:33.800 --> 02:09:36.159 to figure out how to do with that. That sounds 2389 02:09:36.199 --> 02:09:38.880 so fucking blue Sky, get the fuck out of your resources. 2390 02:09:39.079 --> 02:09:40.920 He didn't have the he didn't know how to deal 2391 02:09:41.000 --> 02:09:44.119 with it. He I mean, you had said damage good. 2392 02:09:44.159 --> 02:09:47.960 I wouldn't use that term hurt myself, but it's I 2393 02:09:48.079 --> 02:09:52.319 know what you mean. He The roots of that, the 2394 02:09:52.520 --> 02:09:57.399 roots of that trauma, of the addiction are buried so 2395 02:09:57.720 --> 02:10:01.560 deeply withint Brad's core that they they've posed they've poisoned 2396

02:10:01.600 --> 02:10:05.920 the marrow in his bones. Practically, he it's almost like 2397 02:10:05.960 --> 02:10:08.199 there's no way escaping it. My one, like, my one 2398 02:10:08.279 --> 02:10:11.560 narrative gripe with this is like you and I played 2399 02:10:11.640 --> 02:10:14.359 painful and yes, this scene, like to be fair, this 2400 02:10:14.439 --> 02:10:15.359 scene is very moving. 2401 02:10:16.119 --> 02:10:16.279 You know. 2402 02:10:16.880 --> 02:10:19.000 My only note under all of that was Jesus Christ, 2403 02:10:20.800 --> 02:10:24.239 like like it is, you know, it's moving. However, did 2404 02:10:24.279 --> 02:10:25.880 we need them to tell us that like we got 2405 02:10:25.920 --> 02:10:27.560 that at the end of Joy, at the end of Painful, 2406 02:10:27.640 --> 02:10:30.279 like we were, and that the ending of Painful is 2407 02:10:30.479 --> 02:10:32.399 way better, way more impactful. 2408 02:10:33.199 --> 02:10:35.279 Yeah, I feel like we could have gotten that from 2409 02:10:36.239 --> 02:10:40.600 just playing as Brad throughout Painful. Like It's It's a 2410 02:10:40.640 --> 02:10:43.399 good scene, no doubt, in this game. But yeah, I 2411 02:10:43.439 --> 02:10:46.199 get what you're saying. It's uh, a lot the a 2412 02:10:46.199 --> 02:10:47.800 lot of the stuff that you see right here at 2413 02:10:47.800 --> 02:10:50.680 the end that just feels shoehorned in just for the 2414 02:10:50.760 --> 02:10:53.680 sake of concluding the whole thing and trying to tie 2415 02:10:53.760 --> 02:10:56.039 up as many loose ends as possible. 2416 02:10:56.720 --> 02:10:58.560 I'm just articulating this on the spot. I don't know 2417 02:10:58.600 --> 02:11:00.479 if I'll feel the same whenever I come back and 2418 02:11:00.680 --> 02:11:04.479 edit this. Future me will handle that. But between this 2419 02:11:04.800 --> 02:11:08.680 and between the upcoming scene with Buzzo, it almost feels 2420 02:11:08.720 --> 02:11:15.760 like Jorgensen has somewhat somewhat doesn't believe that the audience 2421 02:11:15.840 --> 02:11:18.680 is going to understand that Brad is a tragic character, 2422 02:11:19.199 --> 02:11:21.720 so he has to have this buddy coming to terms 2423 02:11:21.760 --> 02:11:25.439 with it. Here explicitly Buzzo saying, Hey, he loved you 2424 02:11:25.560 --> 02:11:28.520 so much, like like you were his light, and it's 2425 02:11:28.640 --> 02:11:30.720 like me as an audience member, I'm like, this is 2426 02:11:30.800 --> 02:11:33.079 the third time I'm being told this, Like Painful told 2427 02:11:33.159 --> 02:11:37.640 me this in a far more visceral and raw way. 2428 02:11:38.560 --> 02:11:42.079 That is how the children might say that was a 2429 02:11:42.159 --> 02:11:45.520 kick in the nuts, Like, that's that's how Painful told it. 2430 02:11:45.600 --> 02:11:47.600 You're not gonna outdo that. Why are you telling me 2431 02:11:47.680 --> 02:11:48.680 it two more times? 2432 02:11:49.479 --> 02:11:52.640 Yeah? I wonder if it's just because they sold the 2433 02:11:52.760 --> 02:11:58.039 painful and the joyful as separate packages or something, maybe 2434 02:11:58.119 --> 02:12:01.199 like in case somebody decides to play the joyful first, 2435 02:12:01.319 --> 02:12:04.399 and if they wanted to get the whole the whole experience, 2436 02:12:04.439 --> 02:12:06.359 I guess, or the whole story. I don't. I don't 2437 02:12:06.359 --> 02:12:08.159 know why you would play the painful first, not, oh 2438 02:12:08.239 --> 02:12:09.439 my gosh, the joyful first. 2439 02:12:09.520 --> 02:12:12.520 But yeah, yeah, who takes the bad news last? You 2440 02:12:12.600 --> 02:12:14.920 gotta take the bad news first, right, that's true? 2441 02:12:15.079 --> 02:12:15.239 You do? 2442 02:12:15.520 --> 02:12:18.119 I mean, yeah, medicine and then sugar. 2443 02:12:18.399 --> 02:12:20.039 Yeah, chase it down with some gatorade. 2444 02:12:20.600 --> 02:12:44.520 Yeah, yeah, that's what Mary Poppins said. You go through, 2445 02:12:44.880 --> 02:12:47.000 you throw another fight with Buzzo. Buzzo turns into a 2446 02:12:47.079 --> 02:12:51.560 joy mutant as well. He okay, so, to Jorgensen's credit, 2447 02:12:52.159 --> 02:12:58.119 Buzzo starts, uh, basically confessing his wrongs to Buddy. But 2448 02:12:58.199 --> 02:13:00.000 Buddy has no idea what the fuck he's talking about, 2449 02:13:00.199 --> 02:13:04.680 because Buddy's never knew Lisa so and Jorgensen doesn't, you know, 2450 02:13:05.000 --> 02:13:08.079 make Buzzo go through all of that. So that's that's cool, 2451 02:13:08.199 --> 02:13:10.319 that's good. That would have been an amateurish thing to do. 2452 02:13:10.479 --> 02:13:13.960 But you fight Joy mutan and Buzzo as he turns, 2453 02:13:14.239 --> 02:13:16.960 and then you have the vaccine out off to the 2454 02:13:17.000 --> 02:13:19.680 corner of the screen. Somebody calls for you and it's Rando, 2455 02:13:20.199 --> 02:13:22.880 and then Brad, Brad is a Joy mutant, also shows 2456 02:13:22.960 --> 02:13:25.399 up and the two of them, it's it's very clear 2457 02:13:25.439 --> 02:13:28.159 that this is a hallucination because Rando is not stuttering 2458 02:13:28.319 --> 02:13:31.439 in the slightest. I don't think we mentioned that he's 2459 02:13:31.520 --> 02:13:35.319 a major stutterer, but that's like a defining character trait. 2460 02:13:35.439 --> 02:13:38.399 He's not stuttering at all. And him and Brad say, like, Buddy, 2461 02:13:38.439 --> 02:13:40.840 we were wrong, Like we need you. You are the 2462 02:13:40.880 --> 02:13:42.760 most important thing to us. We want to worship you. 2463 02:13:42.920 --> 02:13:45.479 You are our God, you are our queen. Stay with us. 2464 02:13:46.760 --> 02:13:49.479 So she's breaking down, she's transforming, and you get the 2465 02:13:50.119 --> 02:13:53.800 choice to take the vaccine or leave it. That's going 2466 02:13:53.840 --> 02:13:57.720 to get you your two endings, join them them,

meaning 2467 02:13:58.159 --> 02:14:01.720 Brad and Rando your psychosa or leave them. And he 2468 02:14:01.880 --> 02:14:05.239 takes the vaccine. And then there are three epilogues, So 2469 02:14:05.479 --> 02:14:07.680 let's let's let's rap about these real quick. 2470 02:14:08.359 --> 02:14:08.880 You got it? 2471 02:14:09.359 --> 02:14:10.960 Which which ending did you pick? 2472 02:14:11.880 --> 02:14:14.119 I picked take the vack? Well did I? Yeah? I 2473 02:14:14.199 --> 02:14:17.359 picked take the vaccine. Yeah, I got the one with 2474 02:14:17.479 --> 02:14:21.039 the Oh what was it? I forget exactly what happens, 2475 02:14:21.079 --> 02:14:24.039 But you see Buddy and then Joy mute and Brad 2476 02:14:24.279 --> 02:14:27.760 I assume alive. I mean he's chilling there with them, 2477 02:14:27.800 --> 02:14:29.439 and then of course you see the little baby there. 2478 02:14:29.640 --> 02:14:34.199 And then I got the epilogue talking about about Buddy's mom. 2479 02:14:34.840 --> 02:14:37.359 I like how you said, of course, uh, you see 2480 02:14:37.359 --> 02:14:39.279 the little baby there, Like it's just a given I 2481 02:14:40.199 --> 02:14:43.319 this I as we're speaking, I don't know where that 2482 02:14:43.479 --> 02:14:47.039 baby came from, do you? Oh, well, I'm wondering that's 2483 02:14:47.199 --> 02:14:49.439 I guess that was buddies then, right. 2484 02:14:50.119 --> 02:14:53.600 Yeah, I mean she got I don't know, I mean 2485 02:14:53.680 --> 02:14:56.159 she got assaulted by that the one guy while she 2486 02:14:56.319 --> 02:14:59.600 was holding up she was holding up Brando on the bar. 2487 02:14:59.760 --> 02:15:02.720 WHI and I kind of just assumed it was from that, 2488 02:15:03.079 --> 02:15:04.359 But I mean. 2489 02:15:04.279 --> 02:15:07.079 We can also if we're expanding it back to painful. 2490 02:15:07.159 --> 02:15:10.880 There's no way painful. Too joyful took more than a year. 2491 02:15:11.439 --> 02:15:14.960 I don't think I wouldn't think so. I actually don't know. 2492 02:15:15.560 --> 02:15:16.479 But it's got to be Buddies. 2493 02:15:16.520 --> 02:15:19.119 I mean, right, I don't see who else it could 2494 02:15:19.119 --> 02:15:22.880 have been, because I'm pretty sure. Yeah, Buddy's mom is 2495 02:15:22.920 --> 02:15:27.039 dead and Buddy is literally the only female. I uh. 2496 02:15:27.760 --> 02:15:30.000 And we should mention that Yato gets yeaded off of 2497 02:15:30.079 --> 02:15:33.399 a cliff Buzza before you fight Buzzo. He chucks an 2498 02:15:33.439 --> 02:15:36.319 axe and it hits Yotto and he falls. 2499 02:15:36.880 --> 02:15:39.279 Oh yeah, yeah, and Buzzle's got one arm. He got 2500 02:15:39.319 --> 02:15:43.399 that shit chopped clean off by U. Mutant. Meeting Brad, 2501 02:15:43.520 --> 02:15:47.800 I think it was being Brad and Rando. I forget no, sweetheart, 2502 02:15:49.359 --> 02:15:50.119 God damn yeah. 2503 02:15:50.159 --> 02:15:52.079 I think you can make an argument for

the join 2504 02:15:52.159 --> 02:15:54.680 them or leave them. I think at that point Buddy 2505 02:15:54.760 --> 02:15:57.680 is so power hungry. I mean, her big thing was 2506 02:15:58.119 --> 02:16:01.399 craving freedom and control. But I mean, what is at 2507 02:16:01.439 --> 02:16:04.680 the root of them if not power? So I could 2508 02:16:04.720 --> 02:16:06.880 see her staying. If you choose not to take the 2509 02:16:06.960 --> 02:16:10.319 vaccine and just let her mutate, it's pretty tragic. She 2510 02:16:11.439 --> 02:16:14.520 she will morph into a Joy mutant and she's sort 2511 02:16:14.560 --> 02:16:18.960 of standing there over Rando's corpse. The wiki said that 2512 02:16:19.119 --> 02:16:23.159 this is just typical joy mutant behavior, like fixating on something. 2513 02:16:23.520 --> 02:16:26.279 I took it as a sign of like poetic mourning. 2514 02:16:27.359 --> 02:16:30.079 Mo o you are, and I don't know. But you 2515 02:16:30.159 --> 02:16:32.719 can also see that she ripped she ripped Joy mutant 2516 02:16:32.760 --> 02:16:36.799 Brad Clean and Twain and chucked him to opposite sides 2517 02:16:36.840 --> 02:16:40.319 of the of the of the valley. So she kills him. 2518 02:16:41.280 --> 02:16:45.280 Ah man, But that's it. That's all that's different about 2519 02:16:45.280 --> 02:16:47.799 the endings. And you know there are implications about the future, 2520 02:16:48.159 --> 02:16:51.239 but the epilogues are where you're going to get the 2521 02:16:51.559 --> 02:16:56.079 past and the lore filled in. And two of them 2522 02:16:57.120 --> 02:17:00.440 are so fucking sad, Like they're all sad, but two 2523 02:17:00.520 --> 02:17:06.840 of them are just bleakly and just fucking sad. Which 2524 02:17:06.879 --> 02:17:08.159 one did you say that you got first? 2525 02:17:08.840 --> 02:17:12.399 I got the one with Yatto talking to Buddy's mom. 2526 02:17:13.079 --> 02:17:15.799 Oh, yes, yes, I did too. Did you clock that 2527 02:17:15.959 --> 02:17:19.600 as Buddy's mom first time through? Because I don't think 2528 02:17:19.680 --> 02:17:21.840 I did. Like when it when it gets to the end, 2529 02:17:22.959 --> 02:17:24.920 it's pretty clear they mean Yatto. But when it gets 2530 02:17:24.920 --> 02:17:27.799 to the end, he says Darling, and I was like, Okay, 2531 02:17:27.959 --> 02:17:30.040 is he just like like Tim Curry, Like, is he 2532 02:17:30.159 --> 02:17:32.440 just putting some sauce on it? Like I don't know, 2533 02:17:32.520 --> 02:17:34.479 maybe maybe I'm a moron. I just didn't get it. 2534 02:17:35.040 --> 02:17:38.200 When he got to the part about saying, how I 2535 02:17:38.239 --> 02:17:40.959 guess the person he's talking to is was just like 2536 02:17:41.040 --> 02:17:44.120 a host. I kind of just deduced from that and 2537 02:17:44.479 --> 02:17:47.120 came to my own conclusion. But I could be right. 2538 02:17:48.120 --> 02:17:49.360 I assume it it's your mom. 2539 02:17:49.799 --> 02:17:51.520 No, No, you

were you were right, it is it 2540 02:17:51.600 --> 02:17:56.079 is Buddy's mom. That that is confirmed. You can oh, 2541 02:17:56.200 --> 02:17:58.000 I don't remember if it's in painful. I think it's 2542 02:17:58.000 --> 02:18:00.639 in painful. And the Definitive edition only you can find 2543 02:18:00.680 --> 02:18:03.399 that lab and you can find her corpse shot through 2544 02:18:03.440 --> 02:18:07.879 d I with a note by it that says You're 2545 02:18:07.920 --> 02:18:11.040 not needed any more, Darling or something like that. But no, 2546 02:18:11.159 --> 02:18:13.799 you're right. The last quote from Yatto says You're just 2547 02:18:13.879 --> 02:18:16.520 a used up bag of flesh. You're not needed anymore, Darling. 2548 02:18:17.200 --> 02:18:19.479 And then you hear the gunshot do you how do 2549 02:18:19.559 --> 02:18:20.680 you get the other two? 2550 02:18:20.840 --> 02:18:22.959 I think I remember reading about those after I beat 2551 02:18:23.000 --> 02:18:27.000 the game, and was it just like the choices or no, 2552 02:18:27.079 --> 02:18:28.840 because Joy didn't have anything to do with it anymore. 2553 02:18:29.159 --> 02:18:31.000 Was it just like choices you make throughout the game 2554 02:18:31.040 --> 02:18:33.920 that effect whether or not you get those other two Yes. 2555 02:18:34.440 --> 02:18:39.360 To get the Lisa epilogue, you have to find I 2556 02:18:39.399 --> 02:18:42.639 think you have to find Lisa's grave with the Joy mask. 2557 02:18:42.680 --> 02:18:44.319 You need the Joy mask for both of these from 2558 02:18:44.399 --> 02:18:47.840 the lab and for the Father ending, you have to 2559 02:18:47.959 --> 02:18:53.079 visit Rando's corpse before starting the final battle. I just 2560 02:18:53.079 --> 02:18:55.200 don't remember when, but you have to visit his corpse 2561 02:18:55.239 --> 02:18:55.719 once more. 2562 02:18:57.079 --> 02:18:57.399 Okay. 2563 02:18:58.159 --> 02:19:03.959 The Lisa ending is is pretty sick, derogatory of parentheses, derogatory, 2564 02:19:04.760 --> 02:19:07.559 and it goes to show you we had talked earlier 2565 02:19:07.639 --> 02:19:12.000 about this that Lisa, despite being a victim of like 2566 02:19:12.079 --> 02:19:16.639 one of the most awful in humane acts in all 2567 02:19:16.680 --> 02:19:21.479 of humanity, to be redundant, she she was not a 2568 02:19:21.600 --> 02:19:25.319 great person. You get a dialogue between her and Buzzo 2569 02:19:26.319 --> 02:19:29.239 that Buzzo was hopelessly in love with her, and she 2570 02:19:30.559 --> 02:19:34.000 forces him to cut a cat's pause off with a chainsaw. 2571 02:19:34.799 --> 02:19:37.319 Oh, I didn't know it was a chainsaw. Goddamn. 2572 02:19:37.959 --> 02:19:41.440 Yeah, that's that's why she's she started calling him Buzzo 2573 02:19:42.000 --> 02:19:45.680 Chainsaw because buzz Buzz yeah. She says, cut cut its 2574 02:19:45.719 --> 02:19:47.280 paws off, and he says, no, I can't do that. 2575 02:19:47.680 --> 02:19:49.399 She says, what do you mean do you like me? 2576 02:19:49.799 --> 02:19:51.959 He says, of course, then do it. Do you love me? 2577 02:19:52.440 --> 02:19:55.079 Then do it and I'll love you back. And then 2578 02:19:55.079 --> 02:19:57.559 he does it, and she says, wow, is it still alive? Good? 2579 02:19:57.719 --> 02:20:00.239 That was good? I think you're ready. He's like for what. 2580 02:20:00.680 --> 02:20:03.360 She says, cut me, and he's like no, no, no, 2581 02:20:03.440 --> 02:20:07.040 no no, and she says no, please no, but I 2582 02:20:07.200 --> 02:20:10.239 love you, I need this. I can't this way. He 2583 02:20:10.479 --> 02:20:13.840 won't want me anymore. Please do it. Only you can 2584 02:20:13.920 --> 02:20:18.280 save me. And then he he does it. That's he. 2585 02:20:18.840 --> 02:20:22.920 Lisa begs him, manipulates him to mess up her face 2586 02:20:22.959 --> 02:20:28.559 with a chainsaw to ward off Marty's rape. Fucking a dude, 2587 02:20:28.799 --> 02:20:29.920 It doesn't it doesn't work. 2588 02:20:30.360 --> 02:20:35.520 Yep, that's fucking Marty. Do the wikis or whatever say 2589 02:20:36.479 --> 02:20:40.559 how long before? How long before she commits suicide? That 2590 02:20:40.680 --> 02:20:42.920 that that happens with the cat and everything. 2591 02:20:43.479 --> 02:20:45.479 Uh, I don't know if they give an exact number. 2592 02:20:45.799 --> 02:20:49.840 It's it's just kind of you know, before okay before? Yeah, 2593 02:20:50.799 --> 02:20:52.399 So that's I mean that gives you a little background 2594 02:20:52.399 --> 02:20:54.559 between those two and then the final one is Father, 2595 02:20:55.159 --> 02:20:58.200 which gives you some background into Brad. I think this 2596 02:20:58.360 --> 02:21:03.639 one is extraordinary sad, and it's it's just all one 2597 02:21:03.760 --> 02:21:06.239 quote except for one word. It's all the same person. 2598 02:21:06.719 --> 02:21:09.000 It says, quote, so you want to be a man, 2599 02:21:09.360 --> 02:21:12.319 be tough, sick of getting your ass kicked. These are 2600 02:21:12.360 --> 02:21:15.360 all totally silent, by the way, except for sound effects. Well, 2601 02:21:15.559 --> 02:21:18.280 you don't need all that karate shit that your granddad did. 2602 02:21:18.360 --> 02:21:21.920 It's worthless. Here boy, I said here, take it. Then 2603 02:21:22.120 --> 02:21:24.120 somebody else says I don't want it. Then you hear 2604 02:21:24.159 --> 02:21:26.120 a smack do as you're told, and you hear a 2605 02:21:26.159 --> 02:21:29.879 beer bottle clink. There you go finish it now, that's 2606 02:21:30.040 --> 02:21:30.520 that's right. 2607 02:21:31.200 --> 02:21:31.360 Now. 2608 02:21:31.479 --> 02:21:36.000 Then let's go see your sister h that. Yeah, that's 2609 02:21:36.200 --> 02:21:41.799 that's fucked. That is God. That is so fucking bleak in. 2610 02:21:42.280 --> 02:21:46.399 You know, that ending in particular, really drives home the 2611

02:21:46.559 --> 02:21:51.600 point that there was no winning or redemption for Brad. 2612 02:21:51.719 --> 02:21:54.959 That he was he was sort of poisoned beyond repair 2613 02:21:55.840 --> 02:21:57.680 through no fault of his own, and that kind of 2614 02:21:57.760 --> 02:22:00.799 goes with the theme that Jorge said that he was 2615 02:22:00.840 --> 02:22:03.680 thinking of that sometimes bad things happen to other people, 2616 02:22:04.319 --> 02:22:06.840 and there is just no saving it, Like you have 2617 02:22:07.000 --> 02:22:08.920 to accept that you can't save it. And maybe that's 2618 02:22:09.000 --> 02:22:11.719 his message to the player, like we have to accept 2619 02:22:11.879 --> 02:22:15.600 that horrific shit like this will happen to real people 2620 02:22:16.319 --> 02:22:21.079 and it's it's horrendous, but we're powerless over it. Ultimately, 2621 02:22:21.440 --> 02:22:25.200 I don't know. That's I'm just fucking blabbering at the 2622 02:22:25.280 --> 02:22:27.799 moment because I'm trying to make this a little less 2623 02:22:27.840 --> 02:22:31.760 tense for the listeners. You know, it's bleak stuff, man. 2624 02:22:32.559 --> 02:22:34.959 Yeah, And if you think about it too, I guess 2625 02:22:35.040 --> 02:22:38.000 in the case of everything that happened and painful, Yeah, 2626 02:22:38.079 --> 02:22:40.719 Brad was just doomed from the start, and I guess 2627 02:22:40.799 --> 02:22:45.399 that the same ghosts for everything that happened pre painful. 2628 02:22:45.639 --> 02:22:49.920 You know, he's just all around just doomed from the start. 2629 02:22:50.079 --> 02:22:52.479 And there was no hope for this guy. I mean, 2630 02:22:52.760 --> 02:22:55.840 as much as he loved buddy, just there's just there's 2631 02:22:55.920 --> 02:22:56.399 no hope. 2632 02:22:57.040 --> 02:23:00.840 Yeah, I think there's no hope. I wonder there This 2633 02:23:01.040 --> 02:23:04.600 is just me being you know, nitpicky, But maybe there 2634 02:23:04.600 --> 02:23:06.520 would have been hope for him in another world where 2635 02:23:06.600 --> 02:23:11.000 Oletha didn't experience the flash and humanity functionally get gets 2636 02:23:11.040 --> 02:23:15.719 wiped out. But you know his upbringing plus the functionally 2637 02:23:15.760 --> 02:23:16.799 what is the apocalypse? 2638 02:23:17.559 --> 02:23:17.760 Yeah? 2639 02:23:18.000 --> 02:23:21.079 Sorry, man, but that's that's that's tough. 2640 02:23:22.040 --> 02:23:23.120 That's that's Lisa. 2641 02:23:24.280 --> 02:23:24.520 Yeah. 2642 02:23:24.799 --> 02:23:27.600 Yeah, happy Valentine's there to be about it. 2643 02:23:29.120 --> 02:23:29.319 Yeah. 2644 02:23:29.600 --> 02:23:30.680 Uh, that's that's it. 2645 02:23:31.000 --> 02:23:31.120 Uh. 2646 02:23:32.200 --> 02:23:34.600 That ends the trilogy. You've got the first, you've got 2647 02:23:34.639 --> 02:23:38.200 the painful, You've got the joyful. I I think, okay, 2648 02:23:38.280 --> 02:23:41.399 here's a question for

you. Would you recommend folks? You 2649 02:23:41.479 --> 02:23:43.440 and I haven't played the first, so maybe we maybe 2650 02:23:43.440 --> 02:23:45.760 won't comment on that. If somebody really wanted to play 2651 02:23:45.799 --> 02:23:49.360 this series and they said to you, I really appreciate 2652 02:23:49.399 --> 02:23:53.639 a narrative that is depressing, and they weren't clear on 2653 02:23:53.760 --> 02:23:56.879 whether or not they felt positively or negatively towards sequels, 2654 02:23:56.920 --> 02:23:59.719 do you think that recommending both painful and joyful to 2655 02:23:59.760 --> 02:24:02.360 get is the better move or do you think painful 2656 02:24:02.479 --> 02:24:06.600 on its own is more worthwhile I. 2657 02:24:06.639 --> 02:24:10.239 Think painful on its own is. Yeah. I think painful 2658 02:24:10.280 --> 02:24:13.399 on its own as its own little self contained thing, 2659 02:24:14.280 --> 02:24:17.479 of course, because it just it all works so well 2660 02:24:17.559 --> 02:24:20.040 together and just painful alone. Like you've got plenty of 2661 02:24:20.600 --> 02:24:23.600 flashbacks and alluding to what happened in the first and 2662 02:24:23.760 --> 02:24:26.399 then there's still lots of mystery at the end as 2663 02:24:26.479 --> 02:24:30.079 to you know, what's going on with Alatha or oh, 2664 02:24:30.200 --> 02:24:32.120 I always pronounce it O Leith, So I'm just gonna 2665 02:24:32.120 --> 02:24:34.840 go with O Leith. What's going on with O Leith 2666 02:24:34.920 --> 02:24:37.840 and the Flash and the mutants and joy and all that. Like, 2667 02:24:37.920 --> 02:24:40.959 there's still lots of unanswered questions at the end, and 2668 02:24:41.000 --> 02:24:45.799 I kind of liked that. I mean, Joyful isn't bad, 2669 02:24:46.280 --> 02:24:49.520 but I feel like a lot of the things that 2670 02:24:49.639 --> 02:24:53.000 tried to answer were just they didn't really need to 2671 02:24:53.040 --> 02:24:57.399 have answers, and they felt just incredibly shoehorned in right 2672 02:24:57.440 --> 02:25:01.520 at the end to kind of give you this, I guess, 2673 02:25:01.559 --> 02:25:04.639 to just give you this, this awesome gameplay package. It's like, 2674 02:25:04.719 --> 02:25:07.520 look at all the stuff that Buddy can do, and then, oh, 2675 02:25:07.680 --> 02:25:09.920 actually we forgot about the story. Here's a whole ton 2676 02:25:10.040 --> 02:25:14.239 right at the end. I would definitely just recommend Painful. 2677 02:25:14.440 --> 02:25:16.159 That's it's all right there. 2678 02:25:17.079 --> 02:25:18.959 Yeah, I'm with you one hundred percent. 2679 02:25:19.079 --> 02:25:19.239 Man. 2680 02:25:19.479 --> 02:25:24.719 I maybe don't feel as strongly about the shoehorned ending stuff, 2681 02:25:25.079 --> 02:25:27.760 but I agree with you. I think Painful stands on 2682 02:25:27.840 --> 02:25:28.600 its own perfectly. 2683 02:25:28.639 --> 02:25:28.840 Well. 2684 02:25:29.399 --> 02:25:32.319 Not

knowing about Yado, just wanting to burn it all 2685 02:25:32.399 --> 02:25:37.879 down kind of makes it better because you know it's unexplained, 2686 02:25:38.040 --> 02:25:40.360 and that's that in and of itself is scary. 2687 02:25:41.040 --> 02:25:44.360 Yeah, man, because like if you think about maybe not 2688 02:25:44.440 --> 02:25:46.920 the best example, but if you think about the movie 2689 02:25:47.040 --> 02:25:49.079 the Thing, have you seen the Thing before or heard 2690 02:25:49.079 --> 02:25:49.879 about it or anything? 2691 02:25:50.360 --> 02:25:52.120 This is going to be the one hundredth time on 2692 02:25:52.200 --> 02:25:55.559 this show where I admit I haven't seen a classic movie. No, 2693 02:25:55.760 --> 02:25:58.920 I have never seen the thing. I know about I 2694 02:25:59.000 --> 02:26:02.959 know about like the opening, I know what's what that's about? 2695 02:26:03.479 --> 02:26:07.280 Okay, Well, yeah, basically the point, the point I was 2696 02:26:07.319 --> 02:26:09.319 gonna get to by bringing up that movie is that 2697 02:26:09.479 --> 02:26:12.920 there's so many unanswered questions by the end of that 2698 02:26:13.040 --> 02:26:17.200 movie that I mean, if they did have answers, it 2699 02:26:17.280 --> 02:26:20.479 might just kind of ruin what the movie is. You know, 2700 02:26:20.600 --> 02:26:23.479 what does alien look like? Why was it here in 2701 02:26:23.559 --> 02:26:27.159 the first place, and just a bunch of other questions. 2702 02:26:27.239 --> 02:26:32.159 But yeah, I liked the ending of The Painful just 2703 02:26:32.280 --> 02:26:34.959 as it is. I it was it was cool having 2704 02:26:34.959 --> 02:26:36.879 everything explained by Yata at the end, and then you 2705 02:26:36.920 --> 02:26:40.360 get all the epilogues explaining all that. But yeah, you 2706 02:26:40.440 --> 02:26:43.120 get everything just fine in The Painful that's on its own, 2707 02:26:43.319 --> 02:26:46.520 little self contained package. I think that's really all you need. 2708 02:26:47.159 --> 02:26:51.360 Mm hm oh yeah, that ending. I can't remember if 2709 02:26:51.399 --> 02:26:53.680 this is still in there for the definitive, but the 2710 02:26:53.840 --> 02:26:56.159 ending with Brad and Buddy and the painful where he's 2711 02:26:56.280 --> 02:27:01.079 you know, pierced with tons of arrows eating Buddy basically 2712 02:27:01.239 --> 02:27:03.239 just told him, hey, man, you made my life hell 2713 02:27:04.040 --> 02:27:06.079 and she finally relented to giving him a hug. And 2714 02:27:06.200 --> 02:27:08.440 the last, the last sentence of the game, did I 2715 02:27:08.520 --> 02:27:09.120 do the right thing? 2716 02:27:09.280 --> 02:27:09.440 Or no? 2717 02:27:10.239 --> 02:27:12.079 Is that the lessons? Did I do the right thing? 2718 02:27:13.120 --> 02:27:14.879 That says That says it all. I mean, I don't. 2719 02:27:15.479 --> 02:27:18.440 I don't think you need you need the extra game, 2720 02:27:18.799 --> 02:27:20.879 but yeah, I agree with you man, it's not a 2721 02:27:20.920 --> 02:27:24.280 bad game and it's only like five hours four hours. 2722 02:27:24.200 --> 02:27:26.920 So yeah, a little quick beat. Okat wrong with that? 2723 02:27:27.639 --> 02:27:30.159 And that's it. That is that's Lisa the Joyful. Thank 2724 02:27:30.200 --> 02:27:33.600 you for joining me on this eron. I've I've wanted 2725 02:27:33.639 --> 02:27:35.799 to put this back into the feed and get Lisa 2726 02:27:35.879 --> 02:27:38.440 back on the brain for quite a while and I 2727 02:27:38.600 --> 02:27:40.879 am glad when I saw how much you liked it, 2728 02:27:41.520 --> 02:27:44.719 Lisa the Painful recently, when you wrote your review, I 2729 02:27:44.879 --> 02:27:47.479 was like, yeah, I let's ask him, like I think 2730 02:27:47.520 --> 02:27:52.200 this will be the perfect pairing because because what better 2731 02:27:52.479 --> 02:27:57.040 person to uh to tackle a grizzly game like this 2732 02:27:57.520 --> 02:28:01.920 than some buddy as grizzly as yourself. 2733 02:28:04.600 --> 02:28:07.479 Hell yeah, I mean, thank you for having me on, man, 2734 02:28:07.559 --> 02:28:09.840 And if you ever do decide that you want to 2735 02:28:09.879 --> 02:28:13.079 tackle the first I will. I mean it's free, so yeah, 2736 02:28:13.079 --> 02:28:16.040 I'll gladly boot that up, give it the old college try, 2737 02:28:16.040 --> 02:28:18.600 and we can talk about that sometime. But yeah, thanks 2738 02:28:18.639 --> 02:28:21.280 again for having me on to talk about this go 2739 02:28:21.479 --> 02:28:22.319 rizzly game. 2740 02:28:22.719 --> 02:28:26.280 Well before that, I think you've got some splaining to do. 2741 02:28:27.120 --> 02:28:32.239 You are the creator of the super Pod Network and 2742 02:28:33.000 --> 02:28:36.079 you host a lot of shows. You do several of 2743 02:28:36.159 --> 02:28:39.000 your own shows, including a brand new one that I 2744 02:28:39.120 --> 02:28:41.319 know that you're keen to talk about. So if you 2745 02:28:41.479 --> 02:28:44.440 wanted to talk about that for a minute, tell the 2746 02:28:44.520 --> 02:28:48.879 listeners what the super Pod Saga Network is, what shows 2747 02:28:48.920 --> 02:28:50.879 you can find on there, what shows you're involved with, 2748 02:28:51.319 --> 02:28:55.840 and of course about the VGM podcast. The floor is 2749 02:28:55.879 --> 02:28:56.360 now yours. 2750 02:28:56.719 --> 02:28:59.879 Ooh okay, And so Superpod Network is just a big 2751 02:29:00.319 --> 02:29:04.559 collective or really just a whole bunch of other gaming podcasts, 2752 02:29:04.959 --> 02:29:08.680 and we have we do a lot of collaborative I 2753 02:29:08.760 --> 02:29:12.159 guess collaborative writing projects where every so often we'll do 2754 02:29:12.799 --> 02:29:16.120 what's your favorite PS one game, what's your favorite GBA game, 2755 02:29:16.360 --> 02:29:18.879 or your favorite arc of this anime? So on and 2756

02:29:19.000 --> 02:29:21.600 so forth. And you can find all sorts of awesome 2757 02:29:21.639 --> 02:29:24.959 podcasts on there. You've got you can find mine, like 2758 02:29:25.399 --> 02:29:28.360 super Ghost, which is on hiatus for now, but it'll 2759 02:29:28.399 --> 02:29:34.440 it'll come back. There's also all all of Bill Barber's 2760 02:29:34.479 --> 02:29:38.559 shows like you Got Gaming and Collecting the Three Too, Experience, 2761 02:29:38.719 --> 02:29:42.280 Geek Addix, You've got Oh my gosh, Elder Trolls. I'm 2762 02:29:42.280 --> 02:29:43.719 trying to remember off the top of my head all 2763 02:29:43.719 --> 02:29:44.600 the shows that are on there. 2764 02:29:44.639 --> 02:29:48.000 Because there's former former guest Retro Wildlands of course is 2765 02:29:48.079 --> 02:29:48.399 on there. 2766 02:29:48.760 --> 02:29:51.959 Oh yeah, yeah, No, Mad's great. I love him. Oh 2767 02:29:52.040 --> 02:29:55.360 preorder bonus. Jake and Cameron they're there too. You can 2768 02:29:55.440 --> 02:29:58.040 catch Friday Night game cast there, Nick and will love 2769 02:29:58.120 --> 02:30:01.799 them boys, just a the whole gaggle of awesome people 2770 02:30:01.959 --> 02:30:06.440 and that that collective. And if you ever so inclined, 2771 02:30:06.440 --> 02:30:08.959 you can check out Chill Scape, a chill PGM podcast. 2772 02:30:09.120 --> 02:30:13.680 It's just just chill VGM all the time, whether it's 2773 02:30:13.879 --> 02:30:18.360 PS one tunes, N sixty four Late night city vibes 2774 02:30:18.559 --> 02:30:21.680 or just like a like a shuffled mixtape type thing. 2775 02:30:22.440 --> 02:30:25.040 I've got it. I just I love looking up, not 2776 02:30:25.200 --> 02:30:27.879 like obscier, but I guess deep, Yeah, I guess deep 2777 02:30:28.000 --> 02:30:31.120 cut chill video game tunes and then throw them all 2778 02:30:31.159 --> 02:30:33.559 together into an episode and it's a lot of fun. 2779 02:30:33.719 --> 02:30:37.239 So yeah, thank you again for having me on. And 2780 02:30:37.799 --> 02:30:39.840 if I'm not mistaken, I believe you're also writing a 2781 02:30:40.520 --> 02:30:41.639 GBA blog for us. 2782 02:30:42.719 --> 02:30:46.920 Hey, I yeah, I told you i'd get it to you, 2783 02:30:47.000 --> 02:30:50.159 and I have forgotten. So that's real, real nice you 2784 02:30:50.239 --> 02:30:51.280 to attack that on at the end. 2785 02:30:52.760 --> 02:30:54.120 You can cut that part out if you want. 2786 02:30:54.200 --> 02:30:58.120 That's that's all right, it's fine, but yes. You can 2787 02:30:58.200 --> 02:31:02.360 find all of the super Odd Network links in the 2788 02:31:02.440 --> 02:31:04.639 episode description, not all of the shows, but a link 2789 02:31:04.719 --> 02:31:08.639 to the repository, the directory, the route. Check all of 2790 02:31:08.719 --> 02:31:12.239 that out there. Check out the Chill VGM podcast Chill Scape. 2791 02:31:12.520 --> 02:31:14.040 You can find all of that in the description. You 2792 02:31:14.079 --> 02:31:16.360 can also find links to our stuff in the description. 2793 02:31:16.680 --> 02:31:18.600 You can join our discord. You can follow us on 2794 02:31:18.680 --> 02:31:22.959 social media Blue Sky and Instagram only for now, you 2795 02:31:23.040 --> 02:31:25.479 can check out the Patreon if you feel so inclined. 2796 02:31:25.600 --> 02:31:28.000 It's of course no pressure but you can if you'd 2797 02:31:28.159 --> 02:31:31.120 like all of that. All of that and more in 2798 02:31:31.479 --> 02:31:34.680 the description, as well as some sources for stuff about 2799 02:31:34.719 --> 02:31:37.159 Lisa if you want to do further reading or listening. So, 2800 02:31:38.000 --> 02:31:41.559 once again, listeners, thank you, major, thank you, thank you 2801 02:31:41.760 --> 02:31:46.719 Erin for joining and for talking all about this terrific series. 2802 02:31:46.959 --> 02:31:50.159 Difficult series, terrific series. And that about does it for 2803 02:31:50.879 --> 02:31:54.479 this episode. We are going to cap it here. I 2804 02:31:54.559 --> 02:31:56.879 am Rick, I am your host. As always, we're going 2805 02:31:56.959 --> 02:31:58.719 to catch you next time. We're signing off for now. 2806 02:31:59.399 --> 02:32:02.360 Take care, don't don't suffer me for