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James Dooley: The DEO proof stack. There's another... Another saying here. Make sure you check out the links for many others. It's pointless being on the menu, which is just being cited by AI, where what you actually want to be, you want to be that dish that the waiter recommends. And that is getting AI to recommend your specific dish. So, Kasra, can we talk about what is the DEO proof stack and how do you get yourself from just being on the menu to actually being recommended by the waiter?
Kasra: Yeah, so the DEO proof stack is a framework that we have put together for... [Snorts] ...AI consistently citing any brand or business. Um, I feel like right now AI search as a whole, whether it's being cited inside ChatGPT, Claude, etc., I feel like it's a little bit rowdy right now where... [Laughter] [Snorts] [Laughter] Carry on. Oh. [Snorts] Yeah, I feel like it's a little bit rowdy right now where people don't really know what, what's actually happening. It's not as predictable as SEO. Um, so this framework has been put together by us, um, and this helps us actually get brands cited inside AI Overviews, um, ChatGPT, Claude, etc. So, the proof stack is costs page, reviews page, case studies page, testimonials, accreditations, and awards. Um, the last two I feel like a lot of businesses already have, um, accreditations and awards, but they just don't mention it anywhere on their website. And then last but not least, having a brand SSOT page.
James Dooley: So, on that with regards to the DEO proof stack, you've mentioned there six trusted pages and you've mentioned the brand SSOT. But, what's the difference between just being on the menu or having, like, a flamboyant... [Laughter] ...who comes along and says that you're the dish that needs to actually be recommended? [Laughter and snorts]
Kasra: Well, I mean the, the, the ultimate goal is having the dish selected, right? You don't want to just be on the menu. Um, so I, I, I think that's probably the, the, the biggest difference between the two. [Laughter]
James Dooley: Right, I want to... I want to... I want to stop this, right? I want to see... Can I guess with your word? Rowdy?
Kasra: Yeah. Yes.
James Dooley: What was mine?
Kasra: Flamboyant. [Laughter]
James Dooley: For anyone listening to this, basically we needed to try and get a word in each, and this is why we're both laughing because we tried and I think we both, the minute we said the words, I burst out laughing. But, on a serious note, the DEO proof stack, like, if you... You don't want to just be on the menu. You want to try and make certain that that flamboyant waiter that comes along, that might be coming to a rowdy bunch of people, that you're the dish that's being recommended. It's very, very important. Let's go back through, on a serious note, Kas. Let's go back through this, the DEO proof stack. If you had to choose two of the pages, so we've got costs, reviews, case studies, testimonials, accreditations, and awards all mixed together and added with the layer of the brand SSOT. If there's two layers out of them that you think is the most important to be the difference between LLMs citing you and LLMs recommending you, which two would you think are the most important?
Kasra: So, if, if, say for example, I was a chartered accountant, I would have accreditations and probably case studies. Um, those would be my go-to. Yeah, for me, I think case studies is, is just because of the amount of times it's shown up in the query funnel, I would say case studies. I'd say the second... Second most, I'd probably say costs. Um, only because it's the biggest attribute that most people are looking at and a lot of people are scared to put costs on the website and I think you need to be doing it. So I'd say case studies and costs probably are the best two. But I think it's probably a bit of a daft question because I think you need... If you can follow the whole framework of the DEO proof strategy, that is going to be the difference between being on the menu and having that flamboyant waiter being the one that recommends that dish.
James Dooley: I think it's important. We both got our words in, being rowdy and being flamboyant, so we ticked that box anyway. But anyway... [Laughter] If people want to know more about the DEO proof stack, make sure you check out the link in the description. Myself and Kasra, for fifteen minutes, go into detail why each of those pages, which should be linked in the footer, is very, very important, but then also sprinkled around the whole website. It's very important. People should be looking at the DEO proof stack. Kasra, it's been an absolute pleasure.