Failure Doesn’t Define You | Joe Grover on Growth, Risk, and Learning from Failure ၏ စာသားမှတ်တမ်းအပြည့်အစုံ

00:03:57.110 Alta on a powder day and I'll move all my 71 00:03:57.150 --> 00:04:02.009 other meetings. And so we went skiing and for 30 years, 72 00:04:02.509 --> 00:04:06.509 in fact, we're celebrating our 30th anniversary this year. For 73 00:04:06.509 --> 00:04:09.740 30 years, we provided fractional finance to But about four 74 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:12.949 years ago, John and the partners decided they wanted to diversify. 75 00:04:13.590 --> 00:04:17.470 And so they decided to launch fractional marketing and HR 76 00:04:17.490 --> 00:04:20.550 and some other services. And so I joined the company 77 00:04:20.569 --> 00:04:23.759 to launch our fractional marketing services. So that's how I 78 00:04:23.779 --> 00:04:25.839 kind of made it to Amplio. And Amplio is built 79 00:04:25.899 --> 00:04:29.800 to give small and scaling companies access to the expertise 80 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:33.139 and the experience that they couldn't afford. or can't find 81 00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:37.000 as they're scaling their businesses. I think that de-risks the 82 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:39.199 entrepreneurial journey in really important ways. 83 00:04:39.980 --> 00:04:45.120 I love that. Joe, maybe highlight how your roles previously, 84 00:04:45.259 --> 00:04:48.410 and we highlight some of those, how they prepared you 85 00:04:48.449 --> 00:04:50.610 in this role that you currently are, you know, the 86 00:04:50.870 --> 00:04:51.810 chief growth officer. 87 00:04:51.829 --> 00:04:56.490 Yeah, I think there's a difference between fractional executives, fractional 88 00:04:56.529 --> 00:05:00.910 CMOs or CFOs, and consultants. and not to diminish the 89 00:05:00.949 --> 00:05:04.189 value that consultants can provide, but it's different when you're 90 00:05:04.209 --> 00:05:07.410 an operator and like you're in the trenches, you're shoulder 91 00:05:07.430 --> 00:05:10.730 to shoulder with a team that is building the product, 92 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.800 launching the product in the market, taking care of the customers. 93 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:17.579 And so for 10 years, I was a venture-backed CMO. 94 00:05:17.779 --> 00:05:20.160 So three different companies, one here in Salt Lake, Homey, 95 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:22.300 and then one in Denver and one in New York City, 96 00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:27.180 these venture-backed businesses, I was an operator. And so transitioning 97 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:30.250 to Amplio was pretty natural because I I understand what 98 00:05:30.310 --> 00:05:33.600 it's like to have a $ 5 to $ 50 million business. 99 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:36.139 I understand what it's like to report to a board, 100 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:38.100 to have a number to hit. I know what it's 101 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.779 like to almost miss a payroll, to tell an investor 102 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:45.500 we lost their money. Initially, when I was consulting, that's 103 00:05:45.550 --> 00:05:47.949 a really natural place for me to be, is to

104 00:05:48.009 --> 00:05:51.949 help these entrepreneurs navigate some of the complexities of this 105 00:05:52.069 --> 00:05:52.850 stage of growth. 106 00:05:52.870 --> 00:05:54.170 I love that. 107 00:05:54.189 --> 00:05:54.649 Yeah. 108 00:05:55.529 --> 00:05:59.209 The different companies and the different roles, like what prepared 109 00:05:59.420 --> 00:06:02.800 you for that? Like, I mean, this is a really 110 00:06:02.819 --> 00:06:06.240 interesting journey, I think, from where you started to where 111 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:08.740 now you are. But like just, you know, for the 112 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:13.040 young listeners that are tuning in, maybe just some words 113 00:06:13.139 --> 00:06:18.189 of advice or opportunities to look for. Because you're in 114 00:06:18.230 --> 00:06:21.069 a pretty, you've got a great position right now. And 115 00:06:21.110 --> 00:06:24.089 I'm just interested in just a little advice if you 116 00:06:24.129 --> 00:06:24.509 have any. 117 00:06:25.290 --> 00:06:28.250 I think I was unqualified for every role that I 118 00:06:28.310 --> 00:06:28.990 ever accepted. 119 00:06:29.009 --> 00:06:29.730 Okay. 120 00:06:31.350 --> 00:06:38.870 So, I mean, it's all good, right? And so none 121 00:06:38.910 --> 00:06:40.990 of us, I was never a CMO before I was 122 00:06:41.029 --> 00:06:43.589 a CMO. Like we all just have to take one 123 00:06:43.610 --> 00:06:46.040 step at a time. And so for, if, if I 124 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:47.680 look back at the beginning of my career, I was 125 00:06:47.750 --> 00:06:51.019 probably more opportunistic than some, some people go to law school, 126 00:06:51.060 --> 00:06:53.089 they become an attorney, they make partner at 40 and, 127 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:58.160 They retire at 65 and go to Lake Powell. That's 128 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:00.980 a great path, right? But I was probably more opportunistic. 129 00:07:01.060 --> 00:07:03.769 So I looked for opportunities where I could grow and 130 00:07:03.790 --> 00:07:06.829 learn from the smartest people. And so I got involved 131 00:07:06.870 --> 00:07:09.129 in venture capital when I had no business being involved 132 00:07:09.170 --> 00:07:11.529 in venture capital. And I earned the right to be 133 00:07:11.550 --> 00:07:13.910 at Mercado because I worked for free for six months 134 00:07:13.949 --> 00:07:16.889 and helped raise capital for their first fund. Not because 135 00:07:16.949 --> 00:07:21.339 I have a Harvard MBA or I was a skilled 136 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:25.009 finance executive. And so I just took the opportunities and 137 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:27.879 I grew along the way. And so I know that's 138 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:31.079 not great advice because it's hard to replicate. But what 139 00:07:31.100 --> 00:07:34.519 I would say is if you're willing to do whatever 140 00:07:34.579 --> 00:07:38.899 it takes to accelerate your learning and then whatever job 141 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:41.639 you're in, you continue to provide value every single day, 142 00:07:41.660 --> 00:07:45.139 then new opportunities will arise and you'll have opportunities to 143 00:07:45.180 --> 00:07:46.199 walk through some new doors. 144 00:07:46.220 --> 00:07:46.759 Yeah. 145 00:07:47.370 --> 00:07:49.360 So I wish it was more intentional and like a 146 00:07:49.420 --> 00:07:50.449 repeatable process. 147 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:50.939 Yeah. 148 00:07:51.060 --> 00:07:54.240 But I've worked hard and I've been really grateful for 149 00:07:54.379 --> 00:07:56.680 all the opportunities. The other thing is you really need 150 00:07:56.699 --> 00:07:57.720 someone to believe in you. 151 00:07:57.740 --> 00:07:58.720 Yeah. Right? 152 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:01.819 You need like one person that sees the potential in 153 00:08:01.860 --> 00:08:06.790 a 22 or 23-year-old kid and gives you opportunities that 154 00:08:07.170 --> 00:08:09.250 you wouldn't have otherwise. And for me, like I had 155 00:08:09.290 --> 00:08:13.170 that opportunity. I was an entrepreneur starting businesses and Greg 156 00:08:13.209 --> 00:08:15.069 Warnock and Ellen Hall gave me that opportunity. 157 00:08:15.100 --> 00:08:16.220 Mm-hmm. Right. 158 00:08:16.339 --> 00:08:19.029 There's no reason why I should have been at Mercado 159 00:08:19.050 --> 00:08:21.470 Partners when I was. And for that, I will forever 160 00:08:21.529 --> 00:08:21.949 be grateful. 161 00:08:22.670 --> 00:08:25.430 You have been surrounded by I look at these companies 162 00:08:25.449 --> 00:08:30.069 that you're talking about. And wow, just great people, great leaders. 163 00:08:30.089 --> 00:08:31.879 I mean, you start off with Kent Thomas, who's dear 164 00:08:31.899 --> 00:08:34.379 to our hearts over here at Mountain West Capital Network. 165 00:08:34.700 --> 00:08:37.779 He was here when I first started. And every single 166 00:08:37.820 --> 00:08:40.500 one of them from Skullcandy to Stance. 167 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:41.779 Jeremy Andrus. 168 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:43.740 Oh, my gosh. Yes. 169 00:08:44.059 --> 00:08:44.840 Johnny Hanna. 170 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:50.470 You're just attracting all these great, amazing people. And then 171 00:08:50.570 --> 00:08:53.889 now you're at Amplio. And culture is important of every 172 00:08:53.929 --> 00:08:57.409 single one of these companies. I know that. I visited 173 00:08:57.769 --> 00:09:04.440 Skullcandy in the early days. That was culture defined, I believe, 174 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:07.740 in the state of Utah at that time. So what 175 00:09:07.779 --> 00:09:11.019 are you doing at Amplio to continue that, and especially 176 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:12.279 with this fast-growing company? 177 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:16.490 Company. Like, what are you doing? Yeah. You can imagine like, homie, 178 00:09:16.509 --> 00:09:18.789 we had a, we had kind of a voice. We 179 00:09:18.830 --> 00:09:20.950 had a brand voice and we did like a lot 180 00:09:20.990 --> 00:09:22.990

of guerrilla marketing and we were loud in the market. 181 00:09:23.350 --> 00:09:25.960 And then I joined Amplio, which is run at the 182 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:30.049 time by CFOs. What do you mean by that? No 183 00:09:30.090 --> 00:09:32.409 offense to all my partners. I love you all. Yeah. 184 00:09:33.169 --> 00:09:34.169 And I thought, wow. 185 00:09:34.549 --> 00:09:34.929 Right. 186 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:37.799 We're run by CFOs. And what it meant is like 187 00:09:38.860 --> 00:09:43.759 we were conservative in our approach to decision making, to positioning. 188 00:09:44.700 --> 00:09:47.490 But we were really soundly run. The judgment was there. 189 00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:50.210 The experience was there. And so I thought, well, how 190 00:09:50.250 --> 00:09:52.669 do we develop a culture? And at the time, there 191 00:09:52.690 --> 00:09:55.909 was four full-time employees when I started and the rest 192 00:09:55.929 --> 00:10:01.110 were all CFOs that were contractors, 1099 contractors. And now 193 00:10:01.129 --> 00:10:04.200 we have 200, more than 200 full-time employees and 400 194 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:07.279 people total. So like we've really had to define the 195 00:10:07.340 --> 00:10:10.820 culture over the last four years. And the culture is 196 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:15.399 now something that has evolved as we've acquired eight different businesses. 197 00:10:15.700 --> 00:10:18.580 They're bringing their own value system and culture and personalities 198 00:10:18.620 --> 00:10:20.500 to the mix and And I think that's what is 199 00:10:20.539 --> 00:10:23.240 going to make this new chapter of Amplio so great. 200 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:25.919 But I wouldn't be lying if I said it was 201 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:29.480 perfectly defined. Just today, we were talking about the Amplio 202 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:32.799 value system and which of those values people actually have 203 00:10:32.870 --> 00:10:36.309 internalized and are living by and which ones are throwaways 204 00:10:36.870 --> 00:10:39.529 that people like their words on the wall, but no 205 00:10:39.610 --> 00:10:41.809 one like remembers it and no one's living by it. 206 00:10:42.230 --> 00:10:44.940 So this is kind of a work in progress. But 207 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:47.679 I think we had this beautiful opportunity to bring all 208 00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:50.799 that made all these companies great and bring it together 209 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:52.490 into one whole. But it's hard work. 210 00:10:52.929 --> 00:10:54.970 Yeah, I can imagine. 211 00:10:55.309 --> 00:10:57.929 Yeah, I would love to explore a little bit more about, 212 00:10:58.149 --> 00:11:02.690 you know, organic growth versus growth through acquisitions and the 213 00:11:02.750 --> 00:11:05.870 thought process that went into that. Because I think that's 214 00:11:05.909 --> 00:11:09.789 a fascinating, you know, just when you hear about four 215 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:14.570 people versus one. 400, right? And how do you maintain 216 00:11:14.629 --> 00:11:17.750 culture and how do you maintain the value that you're 217 00:11:17.769 --> 00:11:18.789 offering to your clients? 218 00:11:19.090 --> 00:11:19.269 Yeah. 219 00:11:19.330 --> 00:11:21.840 And to add one more point on culture, the one 220 00:11:21.860 --> 00:11:24.419 thing that I think has been very persistent from the 221 00:11:24.460 --> 00:11:27.700 very beginning with Kent Thomas and anyone that knows Kent 222 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:30.220 and the early partners know this, but one of our 223 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:33.980 values is experts without egos. And can you imagine working 224 00:11:34.019 --> 00:11:37.659 with 200 C-level executives? Because that's like the world we 225 00:11:37.710 --> 00:11:40.379 live in. And When I first joined, I thought, well, 226 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:43.559 this should be interesting. Lots of sharp elbows and strong opinions. 227 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.860 Everyone has the right answer. And that's just not the 228 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:50.559 culture of Amplio. And I think, um, people that have 229 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:52.779 worked inside of Amplio and worked with our consultants, I 230 00:11:52.850 --> 00:11:56.409 hope will always feel like we are experts in our, 231 00:11:56.509 --> 00:12:00.769 I think these are seasoned C-level executives across these functions 232 00:12:00.830 --> 00:12:03.809 of HR finance and marketing, but we don't come with 233 00:12:03.889 --> 00:12:06.850 all the answers. We still listen to learn. We're still humble. 234 00:12:07.490 --> 00:12:10.730 We're still open-minded. We collaborate well together. That's something that 235 00:12:10.750 --> 00:12:13.970 I think has remained intact. And we're kind of protecting 236 00:12:14.009 --> 00:12:17.250 that as we add new companies and new team members. 237 00:12:18.090 --> 00:12:21.470 So I think that's a good segue to your question. 238 00:12:22.190 --> 00:12:26.049 What about inorganic versus organic? Grow through M & A, 239 00:12:26.450 --> 00:12:28.409 grow through doing the hard work of sales and marketing 240 00:12:28.450 --> 00:12:32.669 every day. And the reality is you need both. Any 241 00:12:32.769 --> 00:12:35.700 company that builds real equity value has to have a 242 00:12:35.740 --> 00:12:39.559 sales and marketing engine. They have to continue to grow organically. 243 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:43.409 And inorganic growth is a really attractive way to bring 244 00:12:43.590 --> 00:12:47.629 in capacity, to bring in capability and skills that would 245 00:12:47.669 --> 00:12:49.929 take a long time to build. It can accelerate your 246 00:12:49.970 --> 00:12:54.830 time to market with new product offerings. We grew marketing 247 00:12:55.429 --> 00:12:59.669 from like nothing. And then we acquired three different marketing 248 00:12:59.950 --> 00:13:04.289 groups and agencies and fractional firms to really bolster the 249 00:13:04.480 -->

00:13:07.740 bench strength that we had and the capabilities set. I 250 00:13:07.779 --> 00:13:10.019 could have built an agency that would have taken me 251 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:13.710 a lot longer than acquiring Avalanche Media, who had been 252 00:13:13.730 --> 00:13:16.409 doing that for 20 years. So I think there's room 253 00:13:16.450 --> 00:13:21.399 for both, and both are critically important. I think it 254 00:13:21.419 --> 00:13:23.779 always sounds easier than it is to just bolt on 255 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:26.580 a bunch of revenue and EBITDA. by acquiring a bunch 256 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:29.179 of companies. And I think anyone who's been involved in 257 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:32.990 M & A, they understand that it is so much harder. 258 00:13:33.149 --> 00:13:37.809 All the work happens after the announcement that you've acquired 259 00:13:37.830 --> 00:13:41.269 this company. And that's hard work because it's people work. 260 00:13:41.669 --> 00:13:46.129 It's helping to align cultures, motivate people, take the best 261 00:13:46.169 --> 00:13:49.210 of the companies you're acquiring, helping buttress and improve the 262 00:13:49.269 --> 00:13:53.980 areas where they're weak. It's about compromise. It's about collaboration. 263 00:13:54.620 --> 00:13:59.200 It's about communication. And that is the hardest work that 264 00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:02.120 you'll do in business. And so it's been a journey, 265 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:03.570 eight companies in two years. 266 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:05.690 That's amazing. Congratulations. 267 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:07.929 I mean, I never would have thought when I joined 268 00:14:07.970 --> 00:14:10.730 with this small, in fact, I joined Amplio because I thought, oh, 269 00:14:10.750 --> 00:14:13.370 this will be good work-life balance. I don't have a 270 00:14:13.409 --> 00:14:15.889 board to report to. I don't have any investors. And 271 00:14:15.909 --> 00:14:17.850 now we're private equity backed. And I report to my 272 00:14:17.889 --> 00:14:21.970 board weekly and we have 400 people. So how's that 273 00:14:21.990 --> 00:14:22.860 for work-life balance? 274 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:27.600 Is there still time for skiing? I mean, not now, but. 275 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:29.159 As long as it's business. 276 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:29.539 Okay. 277 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:30.710 Business skiing. 278 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:32.029 That's good. I'm glad to hear it. 279 00:14:32.049 --> 00:14:33.230 For sure. 280 00:14:33.470 --> 00:14:37.090 I love that. Some of the best business lessons, and 281 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:41.850 we're always here to hear about the highlight stories, and 282 00:14:41.889 --> 00:14:44.759 this is so great, so wonderful, and this went so well, 283 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:47.559 but so many of our really important lessons that we've 284 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:50.440 learned and that we've had shared on our podcast has 285 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.120 been the setback's. So not to be negative, don't really 286 00:14:54.139 --> 00:14:56.360 want to go down that route, but a lot of like, 287 00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:01.360 what have we heard? What was your favorite mistake? Like 288 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:02.860 the one you learned the most from? 289 00:15:03.860 --> 00:15:04.179 Today? 290 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:04.279 Yeah. 291 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:08.019 My favorite mistake today or my favorite mistake this week 292 00:15:08.139 --> 00:15:09.460 or this month or this year. 293 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:12.179 Yeah. You can separate it out that way. 294 00:15:12.700 --> 00:15:15.740 There's a lot to choose from. And we were talking 295 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:18.889 at the beginning about this podcast that I run called 296 00:15:18.909 --> 00:15:21.620 the real F word, which is all about failure and entrepreneurship. 297 00:15:21.629 --> 00:15:24.419 So speaking of negativity, I don't think it's a negative podcast, 298 00:15:24.460 --> 00:15:27.919 but that's all the lessons there. And we talk about 299 00:15:27.980 --> 00:15:30.440 is like what we learn from our, our failures and 300 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:33.179 our mistakes. And that's where the richest learning comes from. 301 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:35.419 And I, I think we're, we kind of shy away 302 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.539 from this question and I love it. So I'll share 303 00:15:38.620 --> 00:15:42.019 one that maybe I haven't shared as publicly when, when 304 00:15:42.070 --> 00:15:44.909 I was at homey, it was about five years. And, 305 00:15:45.370 --> 00:15:48.100 Johnny Hanna and Mike Peregrine and I were running the 306 00:15:48.129 --> 00:15:50.220 business and we had raised a series A and a 307 00:15:50.259 --> 00:15:53.759 series B. We expanded to four states. We extended the 308 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:57.379 business to three different service lines. All the value that 309 00:15:57.419 --> 00:16:00.019 we created there was really taking the low cost kind 310 00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:02.519 of sell side real estate model and expanding out to 311 00:16:02.539 --> 00:16:05.039 the buy side and then to loans. We were a 312 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:10.340 mortgage lender and to insurance, title and insurance. And that 313 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:12.899 vertical integration is where all the value was. But things 314 00:16:12.970 --> 00:16:17.570 started to shift. And we were raising a Series C. 315 00:16:17.629 --> 00:16:21.080 We had two term sheets, one from an investor here 316 00:16:21.100 --> 00:16:23.720 in the state, one from outside of the state. And 317 00:16:23.740 --> 00:16:26.480 we were debating which of these we should take. And 318 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:29.360 we had built a very aggressive expansion plan to launch 319 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:33.000 15 more markets in the United States. And that required 320 00:16:33.019 --> 00:16:34.419 a lot of capital. And at the time, we were 321 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:41.870 raising $ 60-

plus million in a Series C. And we invested 322 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.509 ahead of the capital market. We invested ahead of the 323 00:16:44.570 --> 00:16:51.230 growth heavily. And I remember when my team had come 324 00:16:51.809 --> 00:16:55.509 up with this really cool campaign about the first 400, 325 00:16:55.509 --> 00:16:58.620 which was the first 400 employees. And so we had 326 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:01.559 like a badge on our backpack and a sticker. And 327 00:17:01.580 --> 00:17:04.559 I remember we had a term sheet signed for a 328 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:08.059 $ 60 million Series C. And we were two or three 329 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:11.920 months into diligence and things started to get delayed and 330 00:17:11.940 --> 00:17:16.799 the market started to shift. And I thought, uh-oh. And 331 00:17:16.819 --> 00:17:20.099 I remember that badge and I thought, oh, 400. And 332 00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:22.480 Johnny Henn and I looked at each other and we're like, 333 00:17:22.500 --> 00:17:26.220 this is not good. We had overinvested. We had extended 334 00:17:26.259 --> 00:17:31.230 ourselves in preparation for 60 million bucks and 15 new markets. 335 00:17:31.910 --> 00:17:35.210 And that was premature. And the cost of that was 336 00:17:35.369 --> 00:17:39.750 really painful because that investor backed away from the table 337 00:17:40.210 --> 00:17:44.789 at the 11th hour. So we raised 30 million. not 60. 338 00:17:44.789 --> 00:17:47.410 And we were sitting on just the P & L 339 00:17:47.430 --> 00:17:50.589 was upside down. And then the market started to shift. 340 00:17:50.750 --> 00:17:54.390 So that was fun. Interest rates were at a record low. 341 00:17:54.809 --> 00:17:57.940 Capital markets pulled back, but interest rates started to climb. 342 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:02.099 Housing prices basically priced down our core customer. The product 343 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:06.259 market fit, which was so good for five years, had changed. 344 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:11.650 Product market fit is not persistent. Markets change. So something 345 00:18:11.670 --> 00:18:16.259 that worked... five years ago doesn't always work at year 346 00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:19.609 10 or year six even. And so the learning, the 347 00:18:19.650 --> 00:18:23.549 mistake was we were hyper-optimistic. And I think this is 348 00:18:23.650 --> 00:18:26.890 one of the reasons businesses fell. We were hyper-optimistic and 349 00:18:26.950 --> 00:18:30.130 we were investing way ahead of growth and ahead of 350 00:18:30.150 --> 00:18:32.869 the capital. Even if we would have raised the 60 million, 351 00:18:32.890 --> 00:18:35.730 I wish we would have made different decisions. I wish 352 00:18:35.769 --> 00:18:38.309 we would have been more prudent about the way we 353 00:18:38.349 --> 00:18:42.450 were investing. The growth at all costs mentality during that 354 00:18:42.549 --> 00:18:47.039 era was really unfortunate and it was unhealthy. I'm glad 355 00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:50.799 we've navigated back to a place where efficiency, unique economics, 356 00:18:50.859 --> 00:18:53.980 and profitability matter again. But at that time, it was 357 00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:58.539 all about the top line, customer acquisition, market expansion. So 358 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:00.119 that was one of the mistakes I haven't talked about 359 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:03.460 a lot, but I wish I had a do over there. 360 00:19:03.859 --> 00:19:07.000 Would it have changed the outcome for Homey? I'm not sure, 361 00:19:07.339 --> 00:19:10.259 but it would have certainly given us a longer runway 362 00:19:10.579 --> 00:19:14.819 and more flexibility at pivoting that business model rather than 363 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:15.799 having a gun to your head. 364 00:19:17.380 --> 00:19:19.960 I would love to explore a little bit more, Joe, just, 365 00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:23.660 just given that like, you know, business failures, certainly there 366 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:27.359 are stats out there that highlight that a high percentage 367 00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:30.319 of small businesses fail, you know, within a period of time. 368 00:19:30.380 --> 00:19:30.599 Right. 369 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:34.059 And you highlight some mistakes there, which, which we appreciate 370 00:19:34.180 --> 00:19:37.430 being so open. What are some other things that you've seen, 371 00:19:37.490 --> 00:19:42.180 maybe some themes of mistakes that business owners or entrepreneurs 372 00:19:42.259 --> 00:19:47.710 make that kind of support or don't support the longevity? 373 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:51.710 Yeah, and I love this topic. because the whole vision 374 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:56.240 of Amplio is to dramatically reduce the failure rates of 375 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.099 small businesses in the United States. And the very premise 376 00:20:00.140 --> 00:20:03.019 of why we exist and why Kent first started this 377 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:07.180 was that having some judgment, having some experience, having someone 378 00:20:07.779 --> 00:20:10.380 sitting in the seat or next in the seat right 379 00:20:10.420 --> 00:20:13.640 next to you, who's done this before, who has some 380 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:18.960 pattern recognition, who can identify like, Hey, you're, you're over-investing 381 00:20:19.019 --> 00:20:22.680 in people or products like you, your runway is six 382 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:26.589 months and the market's changing. Having someone in the seat 383 00:20:26.700 --> 00:20:30.450 can de-risk that journey. And I think makes a significant difference, 384 00:20:30.890 --> 00:20:33.309 but you can't always afford to have those people full time. 385 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:37.299 You can't always afford to have a CMO full-time at $ 350, 000 386 00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:42.019 a year, a CFO. And so that's why the fractional model, 387 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:44.480 I think, is really the new growth operating model for 388 00:20:44.539

--> 00:20:47.940 small business. It's like the combination of artificial intelligence and 389 00:20:48.009 --> 00:20:51.769 fractional executives really de-risks the journey. And so some of 390 00:20:51.789 --> 00:20:55.029 the other patterns I've seen is I think hyper-optimism or 391 00:20:55.230 --> 00:21:01.009 over-optimism gets people into trouble, right? We invest ahead of growth. 392 00:21:01.930 --> 00:21:04.009 We always believe it's going to take half the amount 393 00:21:04.029 --> 00:21:06.589 of time and half the amount of money. And almost 394 00:21:06.630 --> 00:21:09.390 without exception, it takes twice as long and a lot 395 00:21:09.430 --> 00:21:14.170 more money. I think that we scale before we've really 396 00:21:14.579 --> 00:21:19.480 proven our product or our business model. And there's a 397 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:22.039 lot of risk in that because you're building on a 398 00:21:22.099 --> 00:21:25.759 really weak foundation. And so slowing down a bit and 399 00:21:25.819 --> 00:21:29.099 just really ensuring you have product market fit, you have 400 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.200 service and delivery that keeps customers happy and your retention 401 00:21:32.259 --> 00:21:35.400 is good. You have a repeatable sales process and sources 402 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:39.630 of new opportunities, like really nailing that before you start 403 00:21:40.049 --> 00:21:44.029 putting more capital in and scaling, I think is so 404 00:21:44.190 --> 00:21:47.890 critically important. Doing that prematurely has introduced a lot of 405 00:21:47.930 --> 00:21:50.049 risks and has collapsed a lot of companies. So that's 406 00:21:50.549 --> 00:21:55.990 That's one pattern that I've seen when companies fail. Oftentimes, 407 00:21:56.049 --> 00:21:58.930 it's just the lack of experience. Sometimes that can be 408 00:21:58.990 --> 00:22:04.130 buttressed with fractional executives, and sometimes it can't be. Sometimes 409 00:22:04.190 --> 00:22:07.130 the operators that took a business to $ 5 million are 410 00:22:07.150 --> 00:22:09.930 not the same that can take it to $ 50. And 411 00:22:09.950 --> 00:22:11.759 those that can take it to $ 50 are probably not 412 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:14.279 the same that are going to run a $ 500 million business. 413 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:19.200 That reality, we live and oftentimes we wait for too 414 00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:23.099 long before we make the change and that introduces a risk. 415 00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:24.619 So it's great. 416 00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:25.900 Thank you. 417 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.019 So acquiring all these companies. And so it's, there's not, 418 00:22:30.660 --> 00:22:33.079 you don't really have, and now you've went from four 419 00:22:33.339 --> 00:22:34.440 full-time employees to. 420 00:22:34.579 --> 00:22:35.069 Did you say 200? 421 00:22:35.069 --> 00:22:35.700 Yeah. 422 00:22:36.009 --> 00:22:36.420 More than 200 W2s. 423 00:22:36.569 --> 00:22:41.190 Yeah. And so you're not selecting each one of these 424 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:46.380 employees for, individually right now, but as you're looking to 425 00:22:46.819 --> 00:22:51.309 continue to be involved with Amplio and continue the culture 426 00:22:51.349 --> 00:22:54.529 and continue the growth, what qualities are you looking for 427 00:22:54.549 --> 00:22:58.890 as you're hiring and as you're looking to grow? 428 00:22:58.910 --> 00:23:04.549 I mean, experts without egos. That's the one, like, I mean, 429 00:23:05.049 --> 00:23:08.789 that is, I mean, Amplio's values are Amplio and the 430 00:23:08.930 --> 00:23:12.240 E in Amplio is experts without egos. And, and I, 431 00:23:12.700 --> 00:23:14.799 I just don't think there's room for smart jerks in 432 00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:18.779 any organization that wants to scale. So, and so there's 433 00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:22.230 a lot of smart people and if they're smart and 434 00:23:22.250 --> 00:23:23.950 they think they have all the answers and they're not 435 00:23:23.990 --> 00:23:28.549 collaborative and they're resistant to change, like that is not 436 00:23:28.829 --> 00:23:31.289 someone who's going to thrive in a culture that is 437 00:23:31.329 --> 00:23:36.579 seeing a lot of change and transformation. Rigidity is something 438 00:23:36.619 --> 00:23:40.140 that I just don't think is a great, a great 439 00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:44.730 characteristic for any employee in an entrepreneurial environment. And so 440 00:23:44.750 --> 00:23:48.630 I think as we interview people and we build the team, 441 00:23:48.650 --> 00:23:52.130 I think that's something that we're always really carefully protecting. 442 00:23:52.349 --> 00:23:54.380 And it's hard because we do want the smartest people, 443 00:23:54.390 --> 00:23:58.640 the most experienced executives, but we need executives that also 444 00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:01.519 understand that one of our other values is to listen 445 00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.420 and learn. And that's all about just like everyone is 446 00:24:04.460 --> 00:24:07.400 learning and they can learn from a controller or an accountant. 447 00:24:07.940 --> 00:24:10.819 They can learn from another CFO and no one has 448 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:13.799 a corner on all the best ideas and all the 449 00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:15.299 brightest recommendations. 450 00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:16.329 Yeah. 451 00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:21.049 I love that. And I'd like to explore with you 452 00:24:21.990 --> 00:24:27.289 the impact of AI, not only, you know, on your business, Amplio, 453 00:24:27.789 --> 00:24:32.019 but also on businesses that you're supporting. And what trends 454 00:24:32.059 --> 00:24:34.299 or what maybe you could just highlight some of your 455 00:24:34.339 --> 00:24:36.980 thoughts as it relates to AI today. I know you're 456 00:24:37.539 --> 00:24:41.839 actively utilizing a number of tools. So maybe just give 457 00:24:42.019 --> 00:24:44.339 the listeners your thoughts on

this. 458 00:24:45.500 --> 00:24:47.819 I love this question. And I listened to a podcast 459 00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:50.619 that I did like four months ago. And I was like, 460 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.109 I don't even... It's changed even... My opinion of this 461 00:24:54.150 --> 00:24:56.970 has changed in four months. It's changing so rapidly. So 462 00:24:57.509 --> 00:24:59.569 if you're listening to this and it's like 90 days old, 463 00:24:59.630 --> 00:25:02.789 then you can disregard everything I'm saying because this has changed. 464 00:25:03.089 --> 00:25:07.349 But I am... So optimistic on artificial intelligence and how 465 00:25:07.430 --> 00:25:11.970 it enables entrepreneurs and founders and teams. Certainly, I think 466 00:25:12.269 --> 00:25:14.930 we would all agree that it is the most significant 467 00:25:14.950 --> 00:25:19.829 technology advancement that we've seen in our lifetimes. Sometimes I 468 00:25:19.849 --> 00:25:22.990 think about the Pentium processor, the first PC that I 469 00:25:23.009 --> 00:25:26.430 was able to actually start a business on, 75 megahertz. 470 00:25:26.450 --> 00:25:29.109 And that was transformative. I remember the first time I 471 00:25:29.150 --> 00:25:33.640 saw the World Wide Web. And I was on FTP 472 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:37.279 sites in my middle school computer science classes. I was 473 00:25:37.299 --> 00:25:39.079 an early adopter of the internet. I remember the first 474 00:25:39.099 --> 00:25:43.940 time I saw a browser line by line render that screen. 475 00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:46.450 I thought, this is going to change everything. And I'm 476 00:25:46.990 --> 00:25:49.579 more excited today. I mean, the smartphone would be the next, 477 00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:52.519 like why all of a sudden, like, this is unbelievable. 478 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:55.940 My Blackberry, like unlocked this mode of communication that I 479 00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:58.799 didn't think was possible. And certainly the iPhone and, and 480 00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:03.140 this I'm twice as excited about what artificial intelligence is doing. 481 00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:06.059 And I know it's hyped. Right. And like, it's, we 482 00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:08.839 all talk about it, but then like, practically speaking, we ask, well, 483 00:26:08.859 --> 00:26:10.769 how are you using AI and which tools are you using? 484 00:26:10.809 --> 00:26:14.170 And it hasn't completely changed all of our day to 485 00:26:14.190 --> 00:26:14.589 days yet. 486 00:26:14.970 --> 00:26:15.130 Right. 487 00:26:15.549 --> 00:26:19.490 But the potential is there and we're seeing that take hold. 488 00:26:19.950 --> 00:26:22.910 So for me, I think it's about all the work 489 00:26:22.950 --> 00:26:25.740 that can be done. AI can do production level work. 490 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:31.339 AI can build output in a way that's scalable and fast, 491 00:26:31.859 --> 00:26:35.440 but it doesn't replace human judgment. It doesn't replace the

492 00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:39.049 ability of pattern recognition from a human who's been there before. 493 00:26:39.509 --> 00:26:44.240 It doesn't replace leadership. Like doesn't replace like rallying your 494 00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.089 team and communicating and coaching and holding them accountable. Like it, 495 00:26:48.099 --> 00:26:50.259 what it does is allows leaders to do what leaders 496 00:26:50.299 --> 00:26:53.619 can only do. And more of their time can be 497 00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:58.109 spent doing the highest value activities and the rest of 498 00:26:58.150 --> 00:27:05.970 the work, data analysis, some content production or review development, right. 499 00:27:06.329 --> 00:27:10.160 Can be offloaded to agents, to artificial intelligence. And that's, 500 00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:15.000 not only my vision, but like Amplio is building and 501 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:18.079 over the last four months has built Amplio Intelligence, which 502 00:27:18.140 --> 00:27:22.380 does precisely this. So CFOs can spend their time doing 503 00:27:22.420 --> 00:27:25.079 what CFOs can do that only they can do. And 504 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:28.400 the rest of that production work, your monthly operating review, 505 00:27:28.460 --> 00:27:32.880 your financial statement, reporting, you know, your cashflow statements and 506 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:36.519 13 week cashflow forecast, all that can now be done 507 00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:39.819 by Amplio Intelligence. So you're paying for your CFO to 508 00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:43.279 sit in the meetings to help you navigate the complexity 509 00:27:43.299 --> 00:27:46.359 of the scaling of business. And for us, that's the 510 00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.299 single largest unlock for the growth of Amplio moving forward. 511 00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:53.039 So I'm really hyped on it. And here's the other thing. 512 00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:57.279 It's amazing in our personal life too, isn't it? It 513 00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:57.819 really is. 514 00:27:58.660 --> 00:27:59.299 Yeah. 515 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:03.369 I mean, just over the last three months, I've now 516 00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:06.990 built apps that manage all of my health decisions with 517 00:28:07.109 --> 00:28:10.660 all of my blood work and supplementation and Like I'm advising, 518 00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:13.640 I don't, I'm sorry if there's any doctors listening. I 519 00:28:13.660 --> 00:28:15.420 don't have to go to the doctor, right? And my 520 00:28:15.460 --> 00:28:18.349 wife always jokes, she calls Claude, Claudia. 521 00:28:18.369 --> 00:28:19.069 We do love the doctor. 522 00:28:19.089 --> 00:28:21.109 She's like, why don't you just ask Claudia? Because she 523 00:28:21.140 --> 00:28:22.650 has all the right answers. I'm like, I think I 524 00:28:22.690 --> 00:28:25.750 will ask Claudia whether or not I should be on 525 00:28:25.789 --> 00:28:29.450 this supplement and what my peptide stack should look like. 526 00:28:29.509 --> 00:28:34.750 And so it's unlocking so much, not just knowledge, right? 527 00:28:34.829 --> 00:28:38.410 But productivity and efficiency in a way that I've never seen. 528 00:28:39.299 --> 00:28:41.599 maybe since the World Wide Web. 529 00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:44.539 It's a great response. It's a great response. 530 00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:49.279 You know, we have Mountain West Capital Network has been 531 00:28:49.299 --> 00:28:53.259 involved with Amplio, Advanced CFO, since the beginning of my days, 532 00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.599 which was a really, really long time ago. So it's 533 00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:59.619 been really fun to see the transformation and growth and 534 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:04.400 changes that has gone on with this company and the 535 00:29:04.460 --> 00:29:07.369 founders and all of that. And I just think it's 536 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:10.700 just been interesting to see how you know, advanced CFO, 537 00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:13.579 then Amplio. And then we're talking about, you know, deal 538 00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:16.599 flow is, you know, all this, the acquisitions and the 539 00:29:16.660 --> 00:29:18.640 mergers and all that that's going on. And then we're 540 00:29:18.740 --> 00:29:23.980 celebrating you at Utah 100. It's just been what, this 541 00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:26.180 is the second or third year that we've been, we've 542 00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:30.339 recognized Amplio on the Utah 100 list. So I just 543 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.619 think you've been around a while and you've been involved 544 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:38.000 in all these companies. Tell me what, and they're all 545 00:29:38.019 --> 00:29:42.539 Utah So tell me what is special to you about Utah. 546 00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:46.220 And do you think that Amplio is the success and 547 00:29:47.890 --> 00:29:51.130 transition that they've gone through over the years is unique 548 00:29:51.210 --> 00:29:53.670 to being in Utah? Or do you think it could 549 00:29:53.710 --> 00:29:55.210 be replicated somewhere else? 550 00:29:56.869 --> 00:29:59.240 First of all, we love Amplio. Sherry, we just love 551 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:01.480 what Mountain West Capital Network does for the community. Oh, 552 00:30:02.099 --> 00:30:06.119 thank you. And we'll always be a sponsor. We probably 553 00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:07.319 won't always be on the list. 554 00:30:07.339 --> 00:30:07.940 You heard it here. 555 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:12.740 And I would. Yeah, exactly. But we probably won't always 556 00:30:12.779 --> 00:30:17.589 be on the list, right? These list companies grow really 557 00:30:17.609 --> 00:30:20.289 quickly in some seasons and they slow down in other seasons. 558 00:30:20.369 --> 00:30:23.039 And I'd far rather be celebrating all of our clients 559 00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:24.960 on the list. Every year it's fun to sit at 560 00:30:24.980 --> 00:30:28.000 the table and I just see our clients coming through 561 00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:30.670 the

line and we're celebrating them, snapping pictures. To me, 562 00:30:31.769 --> 00:30:34.170 I find this great joy in seeing the success of 563 00:30:34.190 --> 00:30:38.069 Amplio clients on the stage at the 100 event every year. 564 00:30:39.369 --> 00:30:42.410 But thank you. I think what I would also say 565 00:30:42.490 --> 00:30:44.640 is Amplio is figuring it out just like all these 566 00:30:44.660 --> 00:30:48.059 other companies. So we've been around 30 years and it 567 00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:51.829 always feels bad It always looks better from the outside 568 00:30:51.849 --> 00:30:54.130 than it feels like when you're on the inside. I 569 00:30:55.349 --> 00:30:57.569 just like all companies. When I was at home, it 570 00:30:57.589 --> 00:31:00.329 was like, wow, what a rocket ship. It's amazing. You 571 00:31:00.349 --> 00:31:03.670 guys are crushing it. And I was thinking about how 572 00:31:04.269 --> 00:31:06.789 are we going to raise another $ 30 million and we're 573 00:31:06.829 --> 00:31:09.309 not hitting our numbers in Arizona and I'm going to 574 00:31:09.349 --> 00:31:14.109 have to fire someone. So there's just inside a company 575 00:31:14.150 --> 00:31:16.829 that is growing and going through any amount of change. 576 00:31:17.259 --> 00:31:20.000 there's a lot of difficulty. Like, I just want to 577 00:31:20.059 --> 00:31:22.339 say that out loud. We have not figured it out. 578 00:31:23.299 --> 00:31:23.519 Right. 579 00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:26.980 And, and, and we're, we're a work in progress, just 580 00:31:27.019 --> 00:31:32.900 like all great businesses. But Utah is such a unique 581 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:37.089 business ecosystem. And having worked in Denver and New York city, 582 00:31:37.109 --> 00:31:40.670 I love the city. I love Colorado. They had a 583 00:31:40.710 --> 00:31:45.500 more fragmented entrepreneurial ecosystem and, There's Boulder, there's Denver, there's 584 00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:50.700 some industry kind of divisions. And I think the accessibility 585 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:55.019 of our most senior and experienced leaders is truly unique. Right. 586 00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:57.980 I just like we can reach out to anyone we 587 00:31:58.039 --> 00:32:00.299 want in Utah and they will likely take our call. 588 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:03.059 They will likely take a meeting. Maybe they'll even go 589 00:32:03.099 --> 00:32:06.750 skiing with me. And so like for like to me, 590 00:32:06.829 --> 00:32:10.109 that that is unique. There's an accessibility and a humility there. 591 00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:14.309 that exists that I think is, is really amazing. The collaboration, 592 00:32:14.349 --> 00:32:18.250 the willingness to help younger companies, uh, lots of initiatives 593 00:32:18.369 --> 00:32:21.670 focused on that. Um, obviously the Mountain West Capital Network 594 00:32:21.750 --> 00:32:24.190 and really highlighting deals that are getting done and deals 595 00:32:24.210 --> 00:32:26.170 that are getting funded and investors that are active and 596 00:32:26.210 --> 00:32:29.759 companies that are scaling. Um, Start School and Silicon Slopes 597 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:32.640 is really focused on helping those even earlier, like those 598 00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:35.460 entrepreneurs kind of get started and try to de-risk that 599 00:32:35.500 --> 00:32:41.980 journey by helping experienced, proven, exited entrepreneurs sharing their wisdom, patterns, 600 00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:45.539 and playbooks with the younger generation of entrepreneurs. And so 601 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:50.509 those are just two of a dozen initiatives, organizations, associations, 602 00:32:50.549 --> 00:32:54.329 and companies that care deeply about the entrepreneurial ecosystem here 603 00:32:54.349 --> 00:32:57.450 in Utah and are willing to invest their time, their money, 604 00:32:57.950 --> 00:33:01.089 to help us to become a consistent success and not 605 00:33:01.150 --> 00:33:03.390 a flash in the pan. So I think that's one 606 00:33:03.410 --> 00:33:05.880 of the reasons that everyone says the people, and I 607 00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:07.819 agree with that. I said that yesterday on a panel, like, 608 00:33:08.049 --> 00:33:11.410 The people of Utah, there's something unique about the people 609 00:33:11.490 --> 00:33:13.730 in Utah. And how do you characterize that and how 610 00:33:13.750 --> 00:33:16.630 do you bottle that up? I'm not sure you can. 611 00:33:18.049 --> 00:33:19.509 Yeah, that's a great response. 612 00:33:19.930 --> 00:33:24.250 I love that. I guess maybe my last question for 613 00:33:24.289 --> 00:33:27.349 you would be just as you kind of think about 614 00:33:27.609 --> 00:33:33.200 all the experiences that you've had, obviously the incredible success 615 00:33:33.220 --> 00:33:37.299 that you've enjoyed at Amplio as well as others. What advice, 616 00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.660 I mean, when you think about, you know, these kind 617 00:33:40.700 --> 00:33:44.029 of up and coming entrepreneurs that, you know, we have 618 00:33:44.130 --> 00:33:47.190 many examples and we'll be recognizing them in November at 619 00:33:47.230 --> 00:33:50.529 the Utah 100. And what advice, I mean, would you 620 00:33:50.569 --> 00:33:53.460 give maybe one or two things that you would say, 621 00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:57.279 whether to your younger self or to these that are 622 00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:00.480 starting a new business, what are one or two things 623 00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:01.960 that you think would stand out? 624 00:34:03.809 --> 00:34:10.070 The failure does not define you and neither does success. 625 00:34:11.510 --> 00:34:14.909 That's so, so like, I just, I care deeply about 626 00:34:14.989 --> 00:34:21.380 sharing failure stories because I think it destigmatizes this idea 627 00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:25.400 of failure. But when you are operating, especially as an 628 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:30.360 entrepreneur from a position of

fear or fear of failure, 629 00:34:31.099 --> 00:34:33.880 it will change your decision-making process. You will be less 630 00:34:33.940 --> 00:34:39.880 courageous about decisions you make, whether it be hiring or partnerships, go-to-market, 631 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:44.869 product launches. And that fear of failure can be crippling 632 00:34:45.289 --> 00:34:47.670 and it will change the way you run your business. 633 00:34:48.510 --> 00:34:50.889 And it doesn't define you because you probably will fail. 634 00:34:50.969 --> 00:34:54.349 Two-thirds of businesses fail, right? You said 80% earlier. It's 635 00:34:54.429 --> 00:34:59.420 between two-thirds and 80% will fail within 10 years. And 636 00:34:59.539 --> 00:35:02.070 so if you... if you're an entrepreneur and you haven't failed, 637 00:35:02.090 --> 00:35:06.730 then you probably haven't tried enough. And so just acknowledging 638 00:35:06.769 --> 00:35:10.550 that reality and embracing the learning and growth and journey 639 00:35:10.590 --> 00:35:12.730 more than the outcome, whether it be a financial outcome 640 00:35:12.809 --> 00:35:15.780 or an award or some type of IPO or an achievement, 641 00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:20.280 like we just really grandize the individual entrepreneur that has 642 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.820 reached this kind of pinnacle of success. And here's the deal. 643 00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:26.460 I haven't not taken a company public as an operator. 644 00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:30.500 I haven't sold a business for, 50 million dollars right 645 00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:35.389 like i haven't but like the experience the people the 646 00:35:35.510 --> 00:35:38.949 learning the difficulty of of that journey i wouldn't trade 647 00:35:38.969 --> 00:35:43.150 i wouldn't trade for a single outcome so success also 648 00:35:43.170 --> 00:35:46.210 doesn't define you and just because you had the fastest 649 00:35:46.230 --> 00:35:49.650 growing company five years ago doesn't mean it's even still 650 00:35:49.699 --> 00:35:52.530 in business today because you were the entrepreneur of the 651 00:35:52.570 --> 00:35:55.300 year two years ago doesn't mean anything about your ability 652 00:35:55.340 --> 00:35:58.400 to lead people today like we just put too much 653 00:35:58.460 --> 00:35:59.460 stock in the. 654 00:35:59.420 --> 00:36:02.920 Superficial that's great advice thank you. 655 00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:06.519 Joe thank you yes we've not heard that version of 656 00:36:06.579 --> 00:36:09.400 it before that's great i'm excited to listen to your 657 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:13.219 podcast i think that that is there's some good lessons 658 00:36:13.260 --> 00:36:15.500 to be learned there and we'll make sure we have 659 00:36:15.539 --> 00:36:16.659 that in our notes. 660 00:36:17.130 --> 00:36:18.369 We'll call it the loser circle. 661 00:36:19.449 --> 00:36:22.289 We're not calling it the loser circle. 662 00:36:22.309 --> 00:36:27.849 We're calling it the non-winner circle. But there's power when 663 00:36:27.889 --> 00:36:30.750 those entrepreneurs say, I'm so-and-so and I started this business 664 00:36:30.789 --> 00:36:33.449 and that business failed, but that doesn't mean I'm a failure. 665 00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:37.300 Like that is like the spirit of that whole principle. 666 00:36:37.619 --> 00:36:41.840 I love that. I love that. So looking ahead, what's 667 00:36:41.900 --> 00:36:44.420 next for Amplio and how can our listeners be part 668 00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:44.670 of it? 669 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:48.710 We just want to help. That's it. If you feel 670 00:36:48.730 --> 00:36:51.769 like you have a gap in experience or your leadership team, 671 00:36:51.789 --> 00:36:56.190 we'd love to help. Whether it's marketing, HR, finance, we 672 00:36:56.210 --> 00:36:59.889 have a sales tax business. We have a valuation business. 673 00:37:00.780 --> 00:37:04.059 We just want to be helpful. And that might mean 674 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:06.019 that we can come in and help your business. And 675 00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:08.000 it might mean that we can have a call and 676 00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:12.099 just help you discover other solutions. I met with 40 677 00:37:12.099 --> 00:37:15.699 companies when I joined Amplio. I was really looking for 678 00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:19.099 a full-time role. before I joined Amplio. And out of 679 00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:22.429 those 40 companies, I think 10 of 40 needed a CMO, 680 00:37:22.889 --> 00:37:26.369 maybe five. The rest really had no business hiring a CMO. 681 00:37:26.789 --> 00:37:28.949 And I told them, hey, you'd be wasting your money 682 00:37:29.650 --> 00:37:31.449 if you hired me as your CMO. I think the 683 00:37:31.489 --> 00:37:33.429 work you need could be done in 10 hours a week. 684 00:37:33.449 --> 00:37:35.739 I think you need a great director of marketing. And 685 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:41.219 so the realization is like, wow, there's a new model 686 00:37:41.239 --> 00:37:45.070 with AI where you don't need a fully staffed senior 687 00:37:45.110 --> 00:37:47.809 leadership team at a certain stage. So if your business 688 00:37:47.869 --> 00:37:49.949 is 1 million or 2 million or venture backed or 689 00:37:49.949 --> 00:37:54.699 5 million, even 10 million, 15 million, it's possible that 690 00:37:54.739 --> 00:37:57.099 there's a different way to operate your business with lower 691 00:37:57.139 --> 00:37:59.679 fixed costs and flexibility. So we just want to help. 692 00:37:59.739 --> 00:38:02.679 That's it. And then Amplio intelligence, right? I haven't even 693 00:38:02.739 --> 00:38:07.340 announced this publicly. So Amplio intelligence is, um, is rolling out. 694 00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:12.570 We've got our first 10 customers, uh, And that, I think, 695 00:38:12.630 --> 00:38:18.750 has the ability to really accelerate the value that all 696 00:38:18.789 --> 00:38:20.610 fractional executives can provide in your business. 697 00:38:22.179

--> 00:38:26.039 Just on a personal note, I love the Amplio team 698 00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:28.400 just as a whole. Everyone that I've ever come in 699 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.760 contact with, I mean, I did steal one. 700 00:38:33.139 --> 00:38:34.840 Katie Brown. She's sitting here in the room. 701 00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:36.380 Katie Brown is sitting in the room. 702 00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:37.420 She's amazing. 703 00:38:37.699 --> 00:38:41.619 But you just have great, great people. And I think 704 00:38:41.659 --> 00:38:45.539 that starts from the top. And even companies that I've 705 00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:48.739 been involved with or even have ownership in have had 706 00:38:49.300 --> 00:38:53.110 Amplio hands in the mix. And those people become like family. 707 00:38:53.820 --> 00:38:56.949 And you love them dearly. Probably many of them try 708 00:38:56.969 --> 00:39:00.750 and be hired away because they become so important to them. 709 00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:03.760 But anyway, that's just a little side note. And so 710 00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:09.340 nicely done over there at Amplio. Just great. Thanks for 711 00:39:09.380 --> 00:39:12.039 being here with us today, Joe. It's just really been 712 00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:14.889 amazing to have you sit in the chair across from 713 00:39:14.989 --> 00:39:17.710 us and to share your insights behind Amplio and their 714 00:39:17.750 --> 00:39:22.329 recent growth. Your story, just your personal story is inspiring. 715 00:39:22.510 --> 00:39:25.610 And the Amplio story is also inspiring. We're just all, 716 00:39:26.130 --> 00:39:28.130 what next? What next? What are they going to do next? 717 00:39:28.409 --> 00:39:30.519 So we're proud to highlight your work here. at Mountain 718 00:39:30.539 --> 00:39:31.400 West Capital Network. 719 00:39:31.940 --> 00:39:34.159 And for our listeners who want to learn more, how 720 00:39:34.179 --> 00:39:35.570 can they find and connect with you? 721 00:39:36.510 --> 00:39:40.909 That's like the easiest question. and here I am how 722 00:39:40.929 --> 00:39:41.739 do they commit. 723 00:39:41.510 --> 00:39:44.570 Yeah is it Alta Snowbird. 724 00:39:43.789 --> 00:39:48.969 Yeah Alta Snowbird University of Utah game yes okay my 725 00:39:49.010 --> 00:39:51.550 trip to Lake Powell any of those is the best 726 00:39:51.590 --> 00:39:55.170 opportunity yeah anyone can email me my email's not secret 727 00:39:55.230 --> 00:39:58.760 jgrover at amplio.com you can text me should I put 728 00:39:58.780 --> 00:40:02.699 my phone number on here too careful no you may 729 00:40:02.739 --> 00:40:05.820 not want that I'm really again Utah is accessible yeah 730 00:40:06.019 --> 00:40:09.389 and so you know I'm a I'm abundant and would 731 00:40:09.489 --> 00:40:11.730 be pleased to meet with anyone if there's a way 732 00:40:11.780 --> 00:40:12.320 that we can help. 733 00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:13.070 Thanks, Joe. 734 00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:16.599 I love that. And to everyone listening, thank you for 735 00:40:16.659 --> 00:40:19.920 joining us. A special thanks to the LaunchPod team, Johnny 736 00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:23.340 and Christine and Cole and Rachel for producing our show. 737 00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:27.670 Zachary Reed for his vision and direction as producer. Katie Brown, 738 00:40:27.750 --> 00:40:29.889 we referred to a few times during this, is our 739 00:40:30.010 --> 00:40:32.849 operations specialist for keeping us in line and on track. 740 00:40:33.469 --> 00:40:35.670 And Garrett Lawson and Kevin Jessup for serving as our 741 00:40:35.730 --> 00:40:37.869 Mountain West Capital Network podcast chairs. 742 00:40:38.610 --> 00:40:40.750 And don't forget to leave us a five-star review and 743 00:40:40.769 --> 00:40:44.349 subscribe to stay updated on Utah's fastest-growing companies and the 744 00:40:44.409 --> 00:40:47.969 leaders shaping our business future. There is nothing we appreciate 745 00:40:48.010 --> 00:40:51.400 more than hearing from our listeners. Rate, review, and share. 746 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:58.159 Welcome to the Winner's Circle. Welcome to the Winner's Circle.