Real Support through Loss with Jessica Fisher of Lavela Health ၏ စာသားမှတ်တမ်းအပြည့်အစုံ

resilience, the path forward, and entrepreneurship. 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:58.199 Her story resonates deeply with audience navigating loss, with health challenges, and with motherhood as a first-time founder. 00:03:58.360 --> 00:03:59.400 So welcome, Jess. 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:01.400 I'm so grateful to have you here. 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:18.600 And I'm really, really grateful that you are open to having this conversation and that you've brought forth this platform because I think the more people learn about it, the more they'll realize that it is something that they may find needed or for themselves or for someone that they know and love. 00:04:18.840 --> 00:04:25.399 So let's start with the origin story, if you will, because you said you, you know, you founded this based upon your own experience. 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:27.560 Do you mind sharing your experience with us? 00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:28.680 No, absolutely. 00:04:28.840 --> 00:04:32.039 And first and foremost, uh, thank you so much for having me. 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:36.519 I'm so excited to speak with you today and for bringing some light and awareness on what we're doing. 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:42.279 Um, but yeah, so Lavella actually started back in 2021. 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:45.159 I had a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:47.879 I actually candidly got pregnant through my birth control. 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:58.439 And I wasn't looking for that pregnancy and uh started to experience some, you know, some pain and went to the ER and come to find out I was pregnant. 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:07.639 And um it after a long journey thereafter, found out that it was an ectopic pregnancy and had emergency surgery to remove that fallopian tube. 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:22.279 And I have a very vivid and distinct memory of recuperating, and I remember being in my bed and having my laptop and typing um reproductive loss support or ectopic loss support. 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:26.759 And I had made a big assumption that this already existed. 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:34.039 The best way that I could describe it is I was looking for um the the antithesis of what to expect when you're expecting. 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:38.439 So what do I expect, you know, when things go haywire reproductively? 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:41.000 And there just wasn't anything there. 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:45.399 Um, and at the time I was actually in business school and I thought, well, that's really interesting. 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:49.160 There's quite literally millions of women that navigate this. 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:52.120 And why doesn't something like this exist? 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:58.360 And so um I really I went on a roughly two-year research journey. 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:17.160 We spoke to professionals like yourself, um, reproductive endocrinologists, OBGYNs, women that had loss from fertility-related losses all the way to neonatal death, trying to pick out what people needed uh as

they navigated these various types of losses in their fertility struggles. 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:20.839 And out of those conversations, Lavella was born. 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:21.560 Wow. 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:32.439 And I you you you make a good point in that you're like the the point at which someone may find they need help, they don't even necessarily know what help they need. 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:41.319 They need the guidance to say, okay, I can anticipate what your journey might look like and where it might pop up. 00:06:41.399 --> 00:07:09.639 Because you know, we've as as we all know, it could pop up with the negative pregnancy test, it could pop up with the next positive pregnancy test, it could be an unexpected, you know, um DNC that needs to happen, it could be with the next birth of your of your baby or postpartum birth of a baby, because these things don't come at a standard linear time, and when they come, this woman needs intervention quickly. 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:16.360 She's she really can't wait the eight weeks to get in and you know see if this person is covered by insurance and so forth. 00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:23.240 And what I love about Lavella Health is that it fills, as you say, that gap, this acute phase gap. 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:31.800 So tell us more about your providers and how how how they might see the gaps that they can fill. 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:33.000 Absolutely. 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:45.639 So, yeah, in the conversations that we had had with uh various folks that had navigated reproductive loss, one thing that they said consistently was I really wanted a miscarriage therapist. 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:49.000 I really wanted someone that understood stillbirth. 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:56.439 I really wanted somebody that I didn't have to explain what retained fetal tissue was or a termination for medical reasons was. 00:07:56.600 --> 00:07:59.079 And I had an incredibly hard time finding it. 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:07.639 And the referrals that I got from my OB offices were either not taking new patients or new clients, um, or they had this eight-week long wait. 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:09.639 And I just thought, you know, forget it. 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:14.680 I'm just gonna kind of navigate this and hope for the best, or try to just work through it with the therapist that I have. 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:20.759 And that was a real unlock for me as a founder and also somebody that recognized in my own personal journey what I was looking for. 00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:26.439 You know, I think you touched on something really interesting, which was sometimes folks don't know exactly what they need. 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:33.639 And part of Labella is uh, you know, helping to explain the benefits of specialized mental health. 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:43.319 So to answer your question directly, all of our therapists, all eight that we have on the platform currently, specialize in reproductive loss. 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:44.440 What does that mean? 00:08:44.680 --> 00:08:53.960 It means they have years of experience um helping clients navigate these various types of journeys. 00:08:54.279 --> 00:09:00.680 And within these eight clinicians, they have even further specialization within reproductive loss. 00:09:00.839 --> 00:09:19.240 So to give you an example, we have a handful of uh clinicians that specialize in stillbirth and a handful of clinicians that specialize in the infertility journey specifically, um, in termination for medical reasons, in uh miscarriage more generally, right? 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:27.559 And I think that that specialization is incredibly important because these journeys are not linear to your point. 00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:41.160 They really deserve somebody that understands the lingo and what might be expected along the way and can almost anticipate some of your needs as you navigate this journey. 00:09:41.319 --> 00:09:57.480 It doesn't mean that all journeys are the same or that people are experiencing this the same way, but it certainly means that um somebody that specializes in this and has years of experience knows right what might be coming and can help you a little bit better, perhaps than a generalist. 00:09:57.799 --> 00:09:58.039 Right. 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:14.120 And to your point, it it if someone is is going through the the trauma of a stillbirth, that is a different conversation than if someone is going through the dilemma and it's or and for some people also trauma of the IVF uh endeavor. 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:14.679 Totally. 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:38.039 Yeah, um totally they they both have a level of of pain and and and suffering and mental health crisis, but but but that person wants to be absolutely recognized for her, and I'll just use the pronoun her unique journey at that moment because that's the biggest part of the problem is it can feel so isolating. 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:39.240 Yes, exactly. 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:43.080 And I think you touch on something so important that stillbirth as an example. 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:44.759 What comes after a stillbirth? 00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:49.480 Well, it's still a postpartum, though you don't have a living child. 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:55.960 Yeah, but that does not mean that you don't have everything that comes after that, the hormone drops, your milk comes in often. 00:10:56.360 --> 00:11:04.759 Um, and again, having someone that understands what's to come and the complexities of that is just so helpful. 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:28.279 And again, just going back a bit to my own story, it's like you want to be thought of, you know, you want to have somebody that um can be dependent upon and a platform perhaps that for lack of a better gets it right where you can show up right as you are and not have to explain yourself in addition to navigating that kind of grief. 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:33.000 Um and spot on, infertility-related loss, massive losses there,

right? 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:39.720 A deep feeling grief, but different, uh perhaps a different experience than somebody that's navigating a still birth. 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:51.000 And if someone is listening or viewing and saying, but I've got a therapist, why might that person say, and I can keep my therapist while doing this work? 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:55.399 Uh and and what would I expect if I'm doing something like that concurrently? 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:57.639 So I get this question a lot. 00:11:57.879 --> 00:11:59.879 And my immediate, of course, right? 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:00.519 It makes sense. 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:02.840 And I actually would say keep the therapist, right? 00:12:02.919 --> 00:12:07.559 Like that's somebody that has known you up until this point, which is great. 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:21.559 And I actually use the example or kind of a um kind of a uh yeah, I guess an example of, you know, you wouldn't go to your general doctor if you had a cardiac problem, right? 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:23.320 Like you're gonna go to a cardiologist. 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:27.639 Uh, if you have a gastrointestinal issue, you're probably gonna end up in a GI specialist's office. 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:38.200 For me, I think nowadays um therapy can be tricky because it folks can plug in specialties and list them, and that's kind of it. 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:41.159 And that's not always what matters, right? 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:42.679 So don't get me started. 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:44.600 It certainly happens in my field as well. 00:12:44.759 --> 00:13:07.480 There are a lot of self-trained fertility specialists, and it it just it crushes me and therefore irritates me because I know the cost to the person who presumes that this person does have all of the knowledge and credential that that term um and they mean it, I'm sure, in the best with the best of intentions they'd like to be, but they're not there yet. 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:30.120 So that's where your vetting of the people, the eight people you have on so far, and I'm presuming there will be more, yeah, um, comes in, is that this is not just someone who's who has that wonderful heart compassion, but really, as as we've stated, you know, has the knowledge to anticipate what you might need before you even know you need it. 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:31.320 Exactly. 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:42.200 And, you know, for the kind of the cardiologist analogy, you're going to get better faster if you go to a cardiologist with a heart problem than you will perhaps a generalist. 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.960 And the same thing, in my opinion, is true for therapy. 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:55.639 We really have vetted, interviewed, gone through the ringer, if you will, with these clinicians of making sure that they have the experience. 00:13:55.960 --> 00:14:03.639 And again, that experience really looks like having had clients for years that have navigated this and that a huge part of their practice is focused on this. 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:07.960 And the specialization matters. 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:20.279 I think it it helps to build up the resilience perhaps that's needed for some to navigate these next uh months, whatever your journey might look like moving forward. 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:24.440 And having that person in your corner and your therapist, right? 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:26.679 They can serve two very different things. 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:34.440 Um, can be really impactful and supportive and important as you navigate whatever your journey to parenthood looks like. 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:38.519 And Lavella Health is is 100% virtual, correct? 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:39.240 Correct. 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:41.080 Yes, even if virtual in California. 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:46.360 If you're in California and your therapist is in California, you're not going to your the therapist's office. 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:49.720 You are this in Lavella Health, it is an online platform. 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:51.480 And yes, in California. 00:14:51.639 --> 00:14:59.879 So therefore, viewers, listeners, if you're outside of California, you know, scopes of practice do not allow for therapy to occur. 00:14:59.960 --> 00:15:08.360 But perhaps if you view the Lavella site, you can get some resources and tips about you know what might be available to you. 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:09.480 Yeah, exactly. 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:13.480 And we are expanding to other markets, other states, that's certainly coming. 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:21.879 There's been such a warm reception and a needed reception in California that it's been so um just emboldening to go into some other markets. 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:28.279 But what I'd also say is that Lavella isn't just it is primarily a therapy platform. 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:40.759 But going back a bit again to my own journey is when I was looking for support, you know, I remember pretty clearly uh typing in to the interwebs, um, can I get pregnant again after having an ectopic pregnancy? 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:42.679 Like, you know, what happens? 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:47.639 And there was so much fractured information and so much random information. 00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:55.720 I remember I read something on Reddit that it was like if you ate a kiwi a day or something that it had a you know a higher likelihood that after an ectopic you would get pregnant. 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:58.919 And I remember so clearly thinking that can't be true. 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:00.279 You know, that's bizarre. 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:00.600 Yeah. 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:22.200 But someone Yeah, but someone who's who's struggling with you know their with the trauma and their mental health will will grab any bit of potential hope and and possibly then therefore, you know, waste time eating, you know, kiwis for three months when they really needed to just you know get some get get a referral, right? 00:16:22.440 -->

00:16:23.879 Yep, exactly, exactly. 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:27.639 And I remembered myself and thought I was like, okay, maybe I should just give it a roll because it can't hurt. 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:30.360 And then I just kind of remember shaking my head and being like, no, no, no, wait a minute. 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.519 That's not that's not based on me sort of research. 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:49.480 And so part of Lavella that I was so bullish about creating along with the therapy side of our offering is a library that's open to anybody anywhere around the world that gives verified information regarding loss. 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:52.200 So all of our articles are verified by Dr. 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:59.080 Andrea Henkel out of Stanford that have more of a medical focus, real explanation of what happens after these losses. 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:07.799 And all of more of the kind of emotional, psychological side of the articles that we put out are all referred by our clinicians and it's based in science, right? 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:17.159 And it's based in um uh real support that that is coming from a clinician, not some individual somewhere that has an opinion. 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:18.440 So worth saying as well. 00:17:18.679 --> 00:17:19.480 Yeah, absolutely. 00:17:19.639 --> 00:17:28.360 And I can anticipate a question out there in the interwebs that that someone may say, okay, I'm interested, I'm curious, or I'm thinking of someone. 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:30.599 Uh, does insurance cover this? 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:33.960 So no, insurance does not cover this now. 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:37.320 And there was a few reasons for that, candidly. 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:44.679 The clinicians that we brought together on this platform are highly specialized, highly curated to help with this. 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.320 Um, and so they're all out of network. 00:17:47.639 --> 00:17:59.159 And what we've done is actually brought Superbill into our platform and are able to create those uh receipts, if you will, for you to be able to submit into insurance. 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:02.039 But to answer plainly and bluntly, not at this time. 00:18:02.360 --> 00:18:07.880 Yeah, well, I'm actually if I if I might if I might just flesh that out a little bit. 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:20.759 So what we're saying is you will not Lavella will not file insurance for you, but you will provide a coded super bill that the client can then submit to their insurance policy for reimbursement according to their plan. 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:22.519 So it may be covered. 00:18:22.679 --> 00:18:42.200 It's the the onus is upon the the individual or couple to say, uh, you know, we're gonna we're gonna you know do this Lavella program and then we're gonna you know submit our insurance bills and see what happens, or we're gonna ask our insurance provider, you know, do you cover out-of-network providers and and you know, do you cover these uh procedure codes? 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:43.079 So Yep. 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:44.359 You said it perfectly. 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:45.319 That's exactly right. 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:47.079 It was easy to use. 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.839 I say that a lot because that's how I practice in my private practice as well. 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:51.720 Thank you so much. 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:53.000 I'm gonna write that down as I go. 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:54.680 I'm like, that is a beautiful way of saying that. 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:55.960 So you guys are spot on. 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:09.400 Yes, we and because regrettably, you know, when we have curated this level of skill and support, um, you know, for on our side of things, it it it is not feasible always to go through insurance. 00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:17.079 We we really need to be able to make the business stay healthy, keep the business healthy so that we can keep supporting you. 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:31.240 So, so back to the the the I'm I don't want to call it a program because it's not a program, but I'm and I'm also wondering what is the typical duration of treatment, or is that even is that even a question that can be answered? 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:34.119 You know, it really varies. 00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:38.759 So what I will say is most people do more than one session. 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:46.920 Um, and we've had folks that have done 20 plus sessions since our launch in February, March, we did a beta launch with Stanford. 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:50.440 And a few of those folks that came on then are still with us, right? 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:52.680 And are on their, you know, dozens of appointments. 00:19:52.759 --> 00:20:01.079 And I think what matters most is that at the end of whenever you decide to end your session, you got something out of it. 00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:03.400 So I'll give you an example. 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:09.079 There was an individual that came to us with an unusual 35-week termination. 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:16.519 You know, you don't see that regularly, but she came to us with a very specific ask, which was listen, I've got a three-year-old at home. 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:22.039 He knows there's supposed to be a sibling coming, and I don't know how to tell him that there's not. 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:25.559 And so she did two sessions with one of our clinicians. 00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:35.079 They focused specifically on that, that goal of figuring out a way to tell her son that this was happening in an age-appropriate way for the three-year-old. 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:36.680 And that was it for her. 00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:38.359 She came and she was like, Thank you so much. 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:41.960 I might be back once I process this more later, or I'm starting to try again. 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:45.160 But right now I just I need to be with, I'm just, this is what I needed. 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:46.359 Fantastic. 00:20:46.599 --> 00:21:02.519 Well, there's

another individual, right, that had a termination for medical reasons and is navigating actively through that termination, uh, postpartum after that termination, um, thinking about trying again, trying again, and then pregnancy, right? 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:04.039 Because that anxiety, right? 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:11.880 The one in three that have PTSD after having a reproductive loss, and those 40% of people that have anxiety, I would argue higher. 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:12.839 If that's just what's reported. 00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:18.599 Really, it's only one in three because it's just it's just reported. 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:18.839 Yeah. 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:19.079 Yeah. 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:23.400 I will I will argue to the until my face turns blue that is likely much, much higher. 00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:24.599 But that's what I can legally say. 00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:29.720 That's what's printed is is that um they need that support through. 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:39.880 And that individual is on their couple dozen of sessions and has said it's just really helped build their resilience as they move forward and navigate the next part of the reproductive journey. 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:43.720 So I don't think that there is a right answer. 00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:45.079 I'm not a clinician. 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:46.359 I will say that up front. 00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:50.839 I will say that we want to meet you where you are, right? 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:56.279 I think that that's a big part of Lovella, is that we don't prescribe how many sessions you have to have. 00:21:56.440 --> 00:21:57.880 We don't force you to buy a package. 00:21:57.960 --> 00:21:59.240 That's that's not our goal. 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:02.039 Our goal is to say, you know, how can we support you? 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:04.440 And we will help you do that. 00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:06.759 Beautiful, beautiful. 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:16.680 Um in terms of getting matched up with clinicians, what is there is there you so you did a rigorous curating for your clinicians. 00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:17.160 You did. 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:21.160 What is the curating, if you will, on the client side? 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:23.240 Yeah, that's a really good question. 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:30.920 So we really try to match with the intake that you give us as you come through Lavella. 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:38.359 So what would happen is you'd come to lavellahealth.com, book a session, and we ask you a few questions along the way about your loss. 00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:47.799 And from those questions, we do our best to match you with a clinician that has the specialization within that field of reproductive loss. 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:57.880 So if you're coming to us with a miscarriage after perhaps a fertility treatment, we will match you with um the therapist that focused specifically on that. 00:22:58.039 --> 00:23:03.640 But what I think is really beautiful about Lavella is we give you the option to explore some of our other clinicians. 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:04.200 Nice. 00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:09.400 And so you can take a look and see if there's another approach to see what fits. 00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:15.799 Because I can imagine that for some people, for instance, their own personal individual experience of loss. 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:21.880 For someone else, it could be a cultural issue that they may need to navigate. 00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:24.759 And so, therefore, having someone who understands their culture and background. 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:27.880 Background would be a better, a better match. 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:37.319 And so we and you've got probably or possibly two different people who could meet either one of those things or one who could meet both of those things. 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:38.440 Absolutely. 00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:41.799 And you know, we are able to switch you, right? 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.000 If for whatever reason that didn't feel right the first time to try someone else. 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:50.200 And so, and there's no hard feelings there, though I will say that it has happened a minimal amount of times. 00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:51.880 I can count on one hand. 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:54.359 And so we get the matching pretty spot on. 00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:56.680 Most people actually book with who we suggest. 00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:58.200 Not everybody, though, right? 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:01.880 And when we go and ask folks, um, you know, why did you switch? 00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:06.440 Like what was what was what were you looking for in the recommendation that we didn't give you? 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:16.759 And um interestingly enough, you know, many of the clinicians that we have on La Vella have a video and they watch the video and they connect with someone, right? 00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:19.640 And for whatever reason, that person just hits with them. 00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:24.519 And I think what's so important to recognize is that's humanity, right? 00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:24.680 Right. 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:25.960 It's humanity. 00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:27.400 Absolutely, right? 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:30.599 Not everybody is going to be perfect for everyone. 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:37.880 And we really, when we started this, we really wanted to give um the folks coming to La Villa agency of choice. 00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:47.559 Because again, I mean you probably know this better than anyone, you know, somebody going through the exact same fertility treatment can react so differently than the next individual. 00:24:47.799 --> 00:25:00.759 And so um we wanted to make it really seamless for the user and say, listen, we're just gonna give you the person we think given your intake is the best for you, but please explore the other clinicians that we have and find the best fit for you. 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:04.920 Please connect with us for a fertility assessment call at the

link below. 00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:08.759 We'd love to learn a bit about you and share our resources. 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:13.400 And make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel so that you never miss an episode. 00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:16.279 Is there a liaison who helps with that? 00:25:16.359 --> 00:25:21.799 Or is that really just kind of going back on the website and saying, I'm gonna try person B? 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:22.599 Totally. 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:24.519 You know, that's a really interesting question. 00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:31.000 And it actually brought up something perhaps a bit on the psychological side of folks navigating uh reproductive loss. 00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:37.640 The vast majority don't want to talk to me or our customer support team, which I find really fascinating. 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:41.720 They want the link and to do it themselves, thus far. 00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:54.200 And so when we oftentimes some of the OBs or um acupuncturists in the area will email me directly and say, I have a client or I have a patient that I really think could utilize some extra care. 00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:55.079 Can you help? 00:25:55.160 --> 00:26:00.119 And it's like connected via email, and I'll respond and say, Great, like I'm here to help find the best clinician for you. 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:01.799 We can hop on a phone call. 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:07.079 Or if it's easier and more comfortable for you, you can go through this intake here and we'll match you. 00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:12.039 And I would say nine times out of 10, they actually just click the intake and do it themselves. 00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:13.559 That makes sense to me. 00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:23.799 Actually, as you as you say it, I'm realizing that you know, again, when when someone is going through what they're going through with with loss, they know their experience. 00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:37.000 They may not know what to anticipate next, but they know whether or not a certain look, sound, I don't know, accent, you know, uh is what they need. 00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:38.519 And it's not logical. 00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:40.440 It is it is human, human. 00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:41.240 It's rapport. 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:41.799 Yeah. 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:42.839 Yeah, exactly. 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:44.680 And it's a relationship like anything else. 00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:51.640 In fact, you know, I'd argue that um, you know, it's one of the more profound ones that you're going to have in your life, right? 00:26:51.720 --> 00:27:05.880 You're divulging these feelings of um vulnerability, fear, right, anxiety, and making sure that whoever is on the other side of that is virtual, that computer all of it. 00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:07.160 All of it, right? 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.559 You want it to be somebody that you feel safe with. 00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:13.480 And that's really the core of it, that you feel you can connect to and that you're safe with. 00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:20.920 Um, and so, yes, of course, if anybody needs a change or wants to try a different clinician, we can absolutely help with that. 00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:25.799 And it's usually our customer support team or even myself that helps kind of re-trigger that. 00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:31.799 But um I will say that because folks do it themselves nine times out of 10, we they get it right. 00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:33.559 You know, people know what they're looking for. 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:44.440 And I do think there's this added element of um this, I believe six or seven out of our eight clinicians have had their own experience with various types of reproductive loss. 00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:51.559 So from infertility going the surrogacy route to um stillbirth, sadly. 00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:58.440 And so there's this deep understanding, and it's not to say that a clinician has to have that experience to have that deep understanding. 00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:09.079 What I will say is for those that that's important, yeah, that there is somebody that they feel they can connect to on that stratosphere, um, we have that as well. 00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:13.880 So this is an an esoteric question. 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:19.559 Why do you think that look something like Lavella isn't out there? 00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:24.599 I I have my own opinion that's a really good system, right? 00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:34.599 The medical system and how people have to go through a system and get their, you know, their degree and credential and license and all of that. 00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:39.799 Um, and the very system alone uh has us lose the forest for the trees sometimes. 00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:42.279 But I'd love to hear your your thoughts on this. 00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:43.880 I think about this a lot. 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:56.920 And part of the reason, you know, that when I started reach researching, excuse me, Lavella back in roughly 2022, I firmly believed I was gonna find a real answer as to why this didn't exist. 00:28:57.079 --> 00:29:02.119 Because just taking my cap off as somebody that's navigated loss and just as a business individual, right? 00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:05.559 I'm like, okay, there's a strong um need here. 00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:10.599 There is an acuity here that is um needing support. 00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:12.680 There's a real problem that needs a solution. 00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:15.960 Why doesn't why hasn't this happened yet? 00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:33.000 Um I think on the business front, it's a lot happier of a place to talk about pregnancy, to talk about um healthy pregnancies, to go into postpartum with babies, right? 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:34.599 And to not perhaps dwell. 00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:40.759 And I remember when I was starting the business, there was another entrepreneur kind of a very friendly way, right? 00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:44.839 With she came from a good place, but she kind of said, Do you really want

to be the face of loss? 00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:53.240 Do you really want to spend your entire career talking about um you know pregnancies that don't make it? 00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:57.079 And she kind of looked at me like you could do so many other things. 00:29:57.319 --> 00:29:59.079 And I just thought she didn't. 00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:00.599 This is this is it. 00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:16.839 This is really an example of of how if you haven't experienced it necessarily, and you don't have to experience it to your point, but if you haven't, or let me put it this way, if you have, then you know how important the conversation is and the support is. 00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.039 If you haven't, you may or may not not know. 00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:37.480 And yes, I guess that yeah, yes, there is a there is a stigma to loss that that you know that some someone or something has failed because of course we're not getting our deepest desire met to have a healthy pregnancy and a healthy babe in arms. 00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:43.640 And yet this is this is also a very real part of life that's always been a very real part of life. 00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:59.720 So to pretend it's not, and to be all unicorn and daisies about, well, we're only gonna look toward the next, or like, oh, you know, you'll you'll be fine, try again, yep, misses the very um pain point that this person is going through. 00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:02.920 And it's so dismissive of what this person is going through. 00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:07.559 And of course, then the body stores trauma, I've learned from my psychologist's daughter. 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:09.559 And so, and so it will come up. 00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:20.039 That's why that's why sometimes you're if you're you're first experiencing this deep, deep loss with your next delivery, even. 00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:21.480 Yes, exactly. 00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:34.759 And I think to add on, to flesh it out a little bit even more, you know, if you were to try to take this business to say um uh investment, right, prior to where we are right now, but just an idea, right? 00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:38.920 The general reaction is going to be, oh, pregnancy loss, it's a little too niche. 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:40.920 I'm not sure if we can really get behind that. 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:47.400 And it's maddening because it's not, you know, it's it's a quite a large on a business front, like a large market, right? 00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:49.240 That is that needs care. 00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:55.000 I think though we're going, and that was kind of the negative bit, but I think we're going in the right direction. 00:31:55.160 --> 00:32:01.160 I will say on a positive front, um, maternal mental health needs a bit of a rebrand, right? 00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:03.319 I think it's such a big bucket. 00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:05.000 What is maternal mental health, right? 00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:09.799 It's fertility, pregnancy, postpartum, up to, I think it's two years postpartum. 00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:10.279 Yeah. 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:12.119 What happens within that, right? 00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:14.279 It's there's so many different things. 00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:20.200 And I do think this, there's this kind of war cry from women of saying, listen, we want specialized care, right? 00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:25.319 We want it for menopause, we want it for our fertility for hormones, right? 00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:28.279 We want it um for our reproductive mental health. 00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:36.519 And employers and um investors certainly are starting to take notice thankfully and say, okay, you know what, maybe we were wrong here. 00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:39.319 Maybe we should be paying it a little bit more attention. 00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:48.599 Um, but I do think going back again, like this, there is still right a stigma at all of saying, you know, oh yes, this can happen, but um, carry on. 00:32:48.759 --> 00:32:49.000 Yeah. 00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:50.440 And hopefully you have to. 00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:54.440 You know, pull up your bootstraps, you'll be fine. 00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:55.880 Just try again. 00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:56.119 Right. 00:32:56.359 --> 00:33:01.720 And and we as women have um, you know, kind of acquiesced to that. 00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:14.759 Where where if we were fully empowered, we would be saying, uh no, just step back a minute and sit down and let me tell you um culture, you know, Western culture, what this is all about. 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:22.759 Because basically, you, whoever you are, come from this person as well, this culture as well. 00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:24.359 Exactly. 00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:35.640 And I think, you know, when we again interview these women when we were thinking of bringing LaBella to market and really offering this, they all had this feeling of what now? 00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:36.039 Right? 00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:38.440 They would get diagnosed in the doctor's office. 00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:41.240 I'm sorry, you're having a miscarriage, here are your options. 00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:42.759 And that was kind of it. 00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:42.920 Yeah. 00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:46.359 There was no medical options. 00:33:46.519 --> 00:34:02.039 There was none of them mentioned any sort of mental health options for them, which was just so confounding because over 50% of women really, and again, this is just reported, wanted something tangible. 00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:05.240 They would have booked something with a therapist, right? 00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:08.840 Or some sort of specialist care, but there was no option. 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:17.640 And I think there's a huge um, and I don't want to really put this on the medical field because they only have like 15 minutes of time, right? 00:34:17.720 --> 00:34:22.599 We can't expect them to be OBGNs, RAIs, therapists, acupuncturists, etc. 00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:26.840 Their job is to keep you alive,

hopefully keep that pregnancy healthy. 00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:32.680 Should it continue or should it not help you do whatever the next step might be? 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:34.920 But that's really where Lavella comes in, right? 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:40.840 And that's, I think, why there's traction here, because the OVs really want something, right, to give to these patients. 00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:42.920 They know actually that they're suffering. 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:46.359 I haven't had anyone tell me, oh no, we don't need this. 00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:47.640 They're like, oh, thank you. 00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:48.039 Right. 00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:51.800 I'm so thrilled to be able to give them something because we know they're devastated. 00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:55.640 We some are devastated, certainly not everybody, but many are. 00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:58.519 And we don't have the time to sit with them for an hour and a half. 00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:01.000 Even if they're not devastated impacted, right? 00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:02.519 I mean, so that's a great word. 00:35:02.680 --> 00:35:02.840 Yes. 00:35:03.319 --> 00:35:07.319 Those who are, you know, have a have really got their minds around this. 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:09.720 And I also want to, you know, they're impacted. 00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:18.359 It's gonna impact the the themselves and their relationships in some sort, in some form for some period of time. 00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:26.039 So to have the support will help mitigate some of that impact, soften some of that that landing, if you will. 00:35:26.279 --> 00:35:33.320 I'm gonna touch upon uh an area that um that I don't even know if I should be going here, but but let's let's do it anyway. 00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:33.960 AI. 00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:34.679 Try it. 00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:35.400 AI. 00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:40.360 AI as as mental health support or emotional health support. 00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:43.159 Let's hear your thoughts. 00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:44.360 Ann. 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:46.920 AI has been in the news a lot this week. 00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:48.920 Yes, it is a variety of different things. 00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:57.800 And I think um what I'll say here is like when a creator of AI says they're nervous about what they've created, you've got to take pause. 00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:05.079 You know, I've been in this industry now for I'm gonna age myself, for almost 15 to going on 20 years, somewhere in between there. 00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:11.639 And never have I remembered the creators of a technology coming back and saying, actually, we need to slow down. 00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:19.559 And I think when you see that happen, irregardless of the industry, you do need to take a pause because they you don't quite have a hold on it. 00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:20.679 So that's one thing. 00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:24.199 I would caution AI as mental health. 00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:32.119 Um because this relationship, as you kind of said earlier, is a humane one. 00:36:34.280 --> 00:36:41.559 What I will say is AI can be helpful in curating information for you. 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:48.599 Perhaps that's related to uh reproductive loss if it's part of a really great system. 00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:53.880 So you can see kind of hospitals are starting to integrate that to help give information when it's needed. 00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:54.599 That's interesting. 00:36:55.239 --> 00:37:00.760 But as far as somebody actually sitting across from you and listening and saying, tell me what happened. 00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:07.159 Yeah, talk to me about your story, tell me how you feel in this moment. 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:09.480 I can guarantee you nothing can replicate that. 00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:11.400 That is human contact. 00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:12.119 Yep, yeah. 00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:20.519 And so um because again, the experience, even for those for whom the impact is not so devastating, it is isolating. 00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:28.920 Like all of a sudden, you are the one having this experience and you can feel like the only one. 00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:44.360 And so if you're on your own trying to get support through AI, it's still just you collecting a bunch of data out there and hoping that that data is accurate and that it can help you. 00:37:44.599 --> 00:38:00.679 Whereas if you have another human sitting with you bouncing thoughts or ideas or approaches, I believe you're going to get the result or the response that you want more quickly. 00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:02.679 And I think that's the goal, right? 00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:07.320 Is like, how can I get myself feeling better more quickly? 00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:16.519 And I think even going back to the example or the conversation that we had had about people perusing right these profiles of our therapists, what are they looking for? 00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:24.440 They're looking for somebody they think that they can connect with because it's such a deeply human experience, right? 00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:32.280 That you need another human with that kind of emotional response sitting across from you. 00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:45.880 Um and AI, at least where it is right now, and I would that regardless of where it is in the future, people are going to want that human interaction. 00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:46.199 Yeah. 00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:54.599 They may backfill with other information, right, in other ways with chat, with Claude, et cetera, but people need people. 00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:55.000 Yeah. 00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:03.880 And um therapy, in my opinion, is the one of the few industries right now that I believe is protected from some of that. 00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:04.280 Yeah. 00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:06.440 You do not get that, yeah. 00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:08.840 You don't get the kind of support that you need through AI. 00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:09.719 I I would agree. 00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:21.159 And then thanks,

thanks for going there with me, because it's it's a it's a touchy situation, especially as you say, right now, it's it's it's exploding on on every every news station. 00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:43.320 Um but I but I wanted to just use that as an opportunity to, as an example as to why with loss, there is no replacement for a human, and there is no replacement for a human who is has got the knowledge and expertise and compassion to help you go through what you're going through to get to restore your mental health. 00:39:43.480 --> 00:39:46.039 In Chinese medicine, we don't use the term mental. 00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:58.360 We we talk about the five emotions, and somehow that really like softens my heart a little bit because you know, mental health can seem so, I don't know, uh, academic. 00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:13.079 Where the very the very active mental health is emotional resilience and emotional well-being and being able to then be in relationship with oneself, with one's experience and with others around this. 00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:31.639 So to carry on, you know, I think that some of the some of the folks that I've known that have been um generous enough to share their experience with me that they've had with Lavella, our users, have said it's incredible to have an individual in your corner as you move forward. 00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:39.320 So I think one thing that should be said is there is kind of that acute moment after you have a reproductive loss where you're looking for a life raft, right? 00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:43.559 Anybody to help you kind of navigate that acute trauma. 00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:54.920 Um but for many people, right, that journey moving forward, that kind of settled nature of a bit of like anxiety, a worry, right, of what is this kind of reproductive journey really going to look like for me. 00:40:55.400 --> 00:41:04.760 Um, having somebody in your corner to help you do that is profoundly important and I believe impactful. 00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:12.360 There's plenty of data out there, and I don't bore everybody with the stats that say though that women that have, or people, I should say women, and okay. 00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:13.559 I do that all the time. 00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:15.239 I'm always getting corrected. 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:24.199 Yes, people, birthing people in this context that um that have a specialized therapist as they navigate this, stay in fertility treatments longer. 00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:25.320 Why? 00:41:25.639 --> 00:41:25.960 Right? 00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:30.679 Because they have somebody to unleash upon that anxiety, right? 00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:35.559 They have kind of a mental health, or I should say, an emotional companion, right? 00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:39.000 That can really navigate that away from your spouse, right? 00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:45.639 Away from your close friends, and you can just show up in the most vulnerable sense and ask the questions over and over and over again. 00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:50.920 I remember from my own experience, you know, people kind of getting annoyed with me after my ectopic. 00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:54.840 I had this anxiety around like, what if that tube doesn't work? 00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:03.000 Come to find out after an ectopic pregnancy, if you lose a fallopian tube, the other one travels like a little arm and can capture the egg from the other side. 00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:04.519 I had no idea that was a thing. 00:42:05.079 --> 00:42:07.639 Um, and I thought, what if that one's lazy? 00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:07.960 Right? 00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:09.559 Like, what if that one can't go there? 00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:11.320 And then I would ask this question. 00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:12.679 Exactly. 00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:13.960 Like, what if it's enabled? 00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:14.280 Right? 00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.599 What if it's just been stuck in its spot, you know? 00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:20.840 And um, I just had these like recurrent questions over and over and over again. 00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:27.000 And I would ask my family the same thing over and over, and I could tell they were just so over it with me. 00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:38.039 Um, and sometimes it doesn't make a lot of rational sense, but um, I had a therapist that I just kept asking the questions to, and she just had the utmost patience with me candidly. 00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:39.800 Thank you for bringing that up that time. 00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:46.119 Because again, I I, you know, when when a person is going through this, others are going through it with her. 00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:53.960 And if they're not skilled and trained, they're having their own trauma while you're having your trauma. 00:42:54.119 --> 00:43:00.199 And in some cases, they want to fix it, they want that it's overwhelming, they want it to go away. 00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:16.840 And any interaction can actually be an inhibition toward your actual healing because you're working with someone who's not trained to hear the cues and really hear what you're asking and have the knowledge to answer that. 00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:33.880 So you're in this spiral of asking questions and getting either misinformation or no information or feeling more separate from the people who you love and who otherwise could be there in a in a different capacity because it meets their capacity to be able to show up. 00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:34.760 Exactly. 00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:46.039 And I, you know, it's almost like that's it's too much to put on maybe your direct support system to expect them to say the right thing all the time or have the wherewithal to kind of always navigate this with you. 00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:49.079 And you know, the folks that we've spoken to, it's it's so interesting. 00:43:49.159 --> 00:44:03.000 The person that's going through the reproductive journey physically, the partner that's with them, um, it's always kind of like, oh yeah, they're there, but

they're they're not, you know, particularly uh helpful. 00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:06.599 And usually, you know, I always ask, well, you know, why is that? 00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:09.000 And they said they just don't seem to get it. 00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:11.960 Like that's that's the that's the response I typically get. 00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:17.159 Or I don't want to trouble them with what I'm feeling, which is pretty heartbreaking to hear. 00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:38.119 And I think um that is something that you get right from a specialized clinician is you show up and you get to just unleash all these questions, unleash all these feelings and get real guidance from somebody that's guided however many women are birthing people prior to you, um, to help you navigate that. 00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:43.159 And I will say that um it's something that I wish I had in my own journey. 00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:48.840 You know, I had a general therapist, um, and she was great for everything but this. 00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:49.079 Yeah. 00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:49.480 Right. 00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:52.760 I think, you know, that even, and I by the way, I love her. 00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.039 I still see her, right? 00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:55.880 There's nothing, you know, that she's wonderful. 00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:57.559 She's helped me in so many parts of my life. 00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:03.000 But there were times where she would say, and certainly other people around me would say, Oh, well, at least you got pregnant. 00:45:03.159 --> 00:45:04.760 We know that you can get pregnant. 00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:10.280 And it's so well intentioned, but my immediate reaction was always, yeah, like, so what? 00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:12.360 That doesn't mean that it's gonna happen again. 00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:13.719 Like I'm still in this boat. 00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:19.079 And it doesn't mean it doesn't mean that it that this didn't didn't happen, that this trauma didn't happen. 00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:27.159 That I that I might be able to get pregnant again doesn't dismiss the The pain that I'm going through right now. 00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:27.719 Yeah. 00:45:28.119 --> 00:45:28.679 Exactly. 00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:31.400 And, you know, I had four subsequent losses after that. 00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:33.639 So it just was a longer journey for me. 00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:38.840 But you know, it it does not mean that it's going to be linear after. 00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:39.480 Right. 00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:40.039 Right. 00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:40.679 Right. 00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:45.480 And to your point, you know, you have a therapist, you love your therapist. 00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:53.079 This therapist has been able to help you navigate through so many areas, but this loss was not her specialty or is not her specialty. 00:45:53.239 --> 00:46:02.039 And so back to the cardiac uh cardiologist, you know, you want to go to someone for whom this is your specialty. 00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:07.079 And so when in a so we know that sometimes there's an acute moment. 00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:16.519 It's like I I just got the negative pregnancy test, or I, you know, didn't get to week nine or whatever, you know, I had a heartbeat at week six, seven, eight, and and now it's not there. 00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:22.440 The the injury, the, the, the, the, the trauma may not be occurring in that moment. 00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:30.760 What might a person listening or listening on behalf of someone else look for in terms so as to say, okay, this might be the time. 00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:34.360 This might be the time to get on the platform and seek out some help. 00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:35.000 Yeah. 00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:38.440 You know, I will say first and foremost, again, not a clinician. 00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:44.920 So I, you know, this is coming from a uh person that has talked to oh my gosh, dozens of women, right? 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:55.400 Or birthing people that have navigated this just from my anecdotal experience, I would say when they start to withdraw, I think that's a big one too, right? 00:46:55.480 --> 00:47:12.519 When you see folks that aren't doing the things that used to bring them joy, um when the anxiety uh is not just popping up a little bit throughout the day, but those questions are just ruminating and you can't get them out of your head, right? 00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:17.239 Those intrusive thoughts and that anxiety that just won't kind of be okay. 00:47:18.199 --> 00:47:28.360 Um when that kind of you know irritability goes a little bit farther than what is typical for that person or it continues onward. 00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:45.079 Um and when that anxiety often that comes with those subsequent like appointments, I think it's really worth saying that you know sometimes folks don't or they're not ready right for therapy in that acute moment. 00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:49.719 That time may come later where that trauma resurfaces. 00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:52.599 Again, I'll use my own self as an example. 00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:56.039 I, after my most recent loss, I had a miscarriage at nine weeks. 00:47:56.199 --> 00:48:00.599 I remember going back in during that subsequent pregnancy that I was able to carry. 00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:11.320 And every single time I went into the room to get a scan, my hands would sweat, I would be blotchy, sweaty, and I would have a real physical reaction. 00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:28.199 And um, if you know, myself now would tell that self, then it's probably a time to go talk to somebody and help you navigate that because you don't need to be miserable, yeah, right, and unsupported through those nine months and just being anxious as you kind of go through that for me, that pregnancy. 00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:50.199 Um also timeline that if it's if you're having difficulty sleeping, if you're if you're having difficulty getting good proper nutrition, if all of a sudden you either don't care

about food or you're using you know food, and especially if it's processed sugary or alcoholic foods or something like that to to numb the the the feelings, those are also signs. 00:48:50.360 --> 00:48:54.840 So um maybe doing a an end-of-day scan, right? 00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:57.000 With with ourselves saying, How am I? 00:48:57.159 --> 00:48:59.400 How am I how was I today? 00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:00.199 How am I? 00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:29.239 If if you if you don't find yourself saying, I got this, I'm good with true you know, authenticity and authenticity, bourgeois de vive, then then maybe that's a sign to say, hmm, might might it be an opportunity to then go to the Lavella platform and and talk with the therapist and see, or go to the resource guide, you know, maybe if you're not ready to if you're not ready to fill out the form yet, just go to the resource guide and familiarize yourself with with the Lavella team. 00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:42.280 And we're soon actually rolling out a self-check guide, right, to help people with exactly that, because it, you know, something that you mentioned very early on in this conversation was sometimes women don't even know what they're looking for. 00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:46.920 And part of Lavella is to help nurture you to whatever that decision might be. 00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:50.760 It could be that you're an individual that only needs the guides, right? 00:49:50.840 --> 00:50:10.280 We're gonna come out in October with a new platform, a site, website revamp, if you will, that will have guides for folks navigating pregnancy loss, a guide for somebody that is supporting someone that is going through physically, a family member, someone that you care about, a pregnancy loss, returning to work guide, right? 00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:13.320 Like maybe that really is all that you need, right? 00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:15.480 In that moment and you're okay. 00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:22.519 While others perhaps do the self-check and they go, oh, you know, this is actually feeling really hard and heavy. 00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:26.840 And I would like to talk to someone and see if this might be helpful. 00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:27.320 Yeah. 00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:28.840 Yeah, that's wonderful. 00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:30.039 Jess, thank you. 00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:34.920 I'm just noticing the time and and we've I could work with you for same hours. 00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:35.880 This was such a joy. 00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:45.159 It's such a such a it's it's it's a topic that is so somber and sobering, but so critical that I really want to give it its due. 00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:49.239 And I want to be mindful of your time and the listening and viewing audiences' time. 00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:57.320 So is there anything that I haven't asked about or any thoughts that you want to convey before we wrap it up here? 00:50:58.119 --> 00:51:01.960 You know, I just want to say thank you so much for holding the space for this, really. 00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:08.360 And it is a sombering and sad conversation, yet it is one that I have daily, right? 00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:10.119 And that is so incredibly common. 00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:17.480 And I it is time right to have specialized care for something that millions of women navigate. 00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:35.480 And though it does not mean that that your reproductive loss isn't emotionally painful, right, and that it's not terrible, but I do think that there is um a solace to be had in knowing that there are so many people that have navigated this before you with you and will continue to do so tomorrow. 00:51:35.719 --> 00:51:37.400 And and so we're just here to support that. 00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:42.199 It provides hope, it provides agency now and hope for for the future. 00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:49.719 Yeah, so that you're not you're not necessarily just going forward in anxiety and fear for another shoe to drop. 00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:50.599 So wonderful. 00:51:50.840 --> 00:51:51.159 You got it. 00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:53.480 Well, your information will be in the show notes. 00:51:53.559 --> 00:51:55.639 So, listeners, viewers, again, thank you for your time. 00:51:55.800 --> 00:51:57.079 You could be spending it anywhere. 00:51:57.159 --> 00:51:59.719 We're really grateful that you spent it with us in this conversation. 00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:10.199 If it is you or if it's someone you know or love, please pass this along to maybe about five people, because as you said, one in three are struggling with a loss. 00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:14.840 One in five are struggling with infertility, which in itself is a loss. 00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:27.079 And so just liking and sharing and commenting and doing things that can help elevate this conversation so that more people can see it will be possibly the very thing that helps somebody uh get through. 00:52:27.159 --> 00:52:29.559 And we're on get through together. 00:52:29.719 --> 00:52:32.119 So, Jess, thank you so very much for your time. 00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:33.559 It's been a pleasure. 00:52:33.880 --> 00:52:35.400 Likewise, thank you so much. 00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:42.599 All right, until until next time, listeners, viewers, we will wrap up Health University with our adage class dismissed. 00:52:42.840 --> 00:52:48.440 If you want more episodes like this at Health University, and make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel. 00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:53.400 Thanks for watching, and we'll catch you at our next episode of Health University. 00:52:53.719 --> 00:52:56.119 But for now, class dismissed.