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Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 8/13/2026 2:29:08 AM
Duration: 5317.329
Channels: 1
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Alrighty.
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Wow.
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Welcome to Fundamentals of Fundamentals.
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I am fundamentals,
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and I have a really exciting guest today.
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We have Rob W, but not that
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can mean many things.
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Rob Wallace.
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What's up, buddy?
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Sir, thank you for having me on. Great to connect and get to speak one on one first time. Yeah, this is
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really tightrope walking now because you and I have never talked in person.
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Barely DM'd each other other than to say, dude, we should podcast. We should do a podcast together.
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We're in the same orbits.
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Same orbits, almost in pretty much in the same time zone.
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And
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I see you wearing your big BTC hat. Yes. You're a part of this whether you want to be or not. You're part of big BTC, my friend.
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I am a part of big PTC. I'm
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not ashamed to
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have embraced it early. And when I say early, like I wrote a book called Bitcoin for institutions, because I
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have a deep caring for
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that world coming into Bitcoin and not fucking up and not fucking us up. And
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I seem to be alone in that caring if
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I judge by the interest in the book, but
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I do care a lot about
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that working.
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I think that's good for us if that works.
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Like, we can't stop these guys from coming. If somehow they come in and have
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a roadmap that gives them a fighting chance, I think that's good for us.
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It's necessary. Anybody who thinks that Bitcoin becomes the global world reserve currency without institutions
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showing interest is
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a caveman. Right?
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I think you're right. It matters how that foundation is set, our relationship towards them, their relationship towards us.
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And so far, has it been
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good? It's been alright.
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The treasury companies, I think, were sort of a a pitfall,
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a little bit of misplaced euphoria.
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But in terms of has Larry Fink been good or bad for Bitcoin?
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I guess I would say he's been good so far, right?
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Absolutely.
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And that's one of the actually one of the reasons I wrote the book was to give my view on why
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he was here to begin with.
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And
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because if you don't know why he's here,
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and you can't really judge him on what he's doing right now, it's going be very hard to figure out when his bit flips and he becomes a villain.
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Because he will be one day he will be right. Yeah, at some point, he's gonna lose that human costume. Right.
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And he's gonna say, you know, it's time for
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it's Blackrock
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time. Now it's not Bitcoin time. It's Blackrock time. Right now, will also my theory,
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for those of you who, for the 8 billion of you who didn't bother reading my book, my theory in a nutshell,
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was that
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basically,
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BlackRock was on the ropes after the Bank of England bailout in
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2022.
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When I say on the ropes, I mean, like,
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sometimes you have a co worker who's a bit of a fuck up, but you know, they're never going to get fired. Right? But they're never going to be in the good graces of like,
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management, right? So BlackRock wasn't going anywhere. But that bail, like having to be bailed out.
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They don't like that. They like being
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the ones who do the bailout. They don't like being the ones
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that have to ask for it, or be told to do it. And so just to be clear, in 2022, they were told
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when the British guilt was spiking, and
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they had to be told to stop selling
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bonds, they had to be told to stop selling UK bonds by the UK government. UK government called them up and said, Larry, you're killing us, stop selling our bonds, we got this, we're
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gonna bail this out.
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That's not a call that Larry Fink ever wants to get.
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Even though it sounds innocent,
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but Larry Fink wants to be the one delivering that call and not getting that call.
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And I think
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that
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BlackRock was close
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to getting Bitcoin at that time. I think
Load full transcript
they were well on their way.
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And then this was just like, Oh, shit, dude. You know what, if we had done this, like, if we had done this ten years ago, let's just say, right?
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We're not getting that call because no one gives a shit if we're selling Bitcoin to cover our customers. No one gives a fuck about that. No government's gonna call us. Right?
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So okay, Bitcoin stateless.
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And
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oh, yeah, by the way, suck.
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So like, we don't want to be in them anyway.
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Right? Because we just took a we just all took 30% haircuts on our on our bond values this past year, 2022.
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So like,
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it started to look really good once he got in trouble.
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And so I propose this big theory in the book about how
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they came to Bitcoin because they were in trouble and Bitcoin was the solution.
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And
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I do think that, you know, I've really analyzed this over the last year and a half that I really just make something up out of thin air. I mean, it's not like
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anyone's diaries revealed this to be true.
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But
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it seems to hold up. Haven't really seen much to say, Oh, you know, BlackRock's totally
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off the reservation, and they don't
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care about any of the things I thought they cared about.
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I think you bring up a good point that you come to Bitcoin when your back is up against the wall, right? Whether you're an institution or an individual,
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it's as we were saying before, I think it's crisis money, right? It's built for these hard times. And when you need that alternative that other people cannot mess with, that's when you realize Bitcoin is the path forward.
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Yeah.
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And, you know, I think BlackRock just just to elaborate a little bit more, I think there's twofold. There's two crises that they are worried about. One is, okay, they wanted real assets. So BlackRock was on a mission to get every real asset that they could. Okay.
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But
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Bitcoin was
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the fail if they fail, I feel like if they fail to integrate Bitcoin into their clients portfolios,
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I believe they will
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remain with this unacceptable exposure that they
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had in 2022 that got them with The UK.
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So what I think what
they desire to do is actually replace enough bond exposure,
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That replace enough bond exposure to Bitcoin so that
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they're never
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impacting a country's currency when they're managing their clients.
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Right? That was really the that was the wake up call, I think at that moment was like, we don't want to,
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to be on the radar of central bankers
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just to manage our clients portfolios.
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Right?
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We want to be too big to fail, but we don't want to be so big that,
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you know,
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we're a problem. Yeah. So Bitcoin does that additional thing for them, which is sort of it lets them sort of swap out the bond situation,
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and insert
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a much better situation that they seem to be good with the asset itself, but also like it's countryless.
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It's very easy to hedge because they had just invented
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and delivered the perfect hedge,
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ie the ETF.
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So like,
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they had the situation pretty locked down to get into Bitcoin. And it helped I think getting the ETF helped us so much. I know people don't agree with this. But
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I just, I think that whether you like it or not, Bitcoin being a freer market and being a more available accessible market
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is needed for Bitcoin's price discovery ultimately, and ultimately their adoption has to be based on
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ultimately available free markets.
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You can't stop it. Right? It's a permissionless network. You're not gonna stop Larry Fink from recognizing that this thing is special, different. He wants to get his wrapper on it and make some money off the fees and also have a hedge when it comes to global crisis. And I think it's interesting to look back at that time, late twenty two, early twenty three, shit was pretty hairy. It could have actually gone really bad right then.
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I mean, Biden was the president.
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We had
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What's her name?
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Not Theresa May, the
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woman who got thrown out as a prime minister of The UK.
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Yeah, I already forgot. Studied
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her for the book and I forgot her name.
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But she I mean, she was in for a couple weeks and she proposed that we maybe get our act together fiscally
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here and they threw her out. Right?
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We had the collapse of FTX
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and then in a couple months later, we had the regional banking crisis here in America.
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And,
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I I mean, I'll never forget it because that was when I first took over or got started with Bitcoin News. And I was tweeting about this, and Balaji made this million dollar bet. Ninety days. In ninety days, Bitcoin's gonna go to a million dollars. Right? And it was $20 at that time. Right? He was gonna 50 x in ninety days.
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Okay. Well, that didn't happen, but it showed you just how perilous that time actually was for people who were in the know. Right?
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Crazy. Well, yeah. I mean,
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there was I I
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I've had a long career in finance,
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and I lived through the o a crisis,
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and I lived
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through,
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you know, 2001.
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And there have been brief moments where I was, I was legitimately scared.
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Right? Like, I'm like, I don't know.
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I don't know if this is really going to come back. Like,
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could be really, really bad. Oh, it certainly was one of those moments. I mean,
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Oh, it just felt there was never a moment in the year 2008, where you felt like this was going to work out.
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You know, in the lead up 'seven, it was like in 'seven, you were getting billion dollar write downs from banks like every week. It wasn't like 'eight, where all this 'eight was just when the final when they, you know, it's it was when the lizards decided to
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pull the ripcord and solve the problem. Yeah. In their own way, right? That's but this was basically
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started really in April of 'seven with Bear Stearns. That was like the first shoe to drop and then,
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you know, you'd March eighteen months to eight. Right? But like, it was just so dark and horrific.
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And
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it really it I had very little confidence that it was,
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I was really, really scared. You know, it's hard to describe after the fact because, know,
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nine eleven was another one of those things where it's like, Oh, shit. And we should have been scared then because things did change like think like nine eleven had probably worst lasting impact in 2008. Right?
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Consider the Patriot Act and it's what's still happening and how
you know, it's never turned around. It's only gotten worse.
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You know, I mean, there was no offsetting
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thing like Bitcoin that got launched. Yeah, just knowingly offset it. Yeah.
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It was so you know, so I all that is to say that in March 2023, was I was feeling the same vibes. I don't know how this is all going to turn out. It's gonna be one of those points where we go through this all over again, and we don't know. And then, you know, strange, dude, like, I had gotten I just got into Bitcoin
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in
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January
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22.
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It's when I first got my first sets.
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And
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that year, you know, I can't wait to talk to you about this. But like that year was my
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real that was the peak pleb slop consumption.
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Right? My journey down the bitcoin rabbit hole. And I do believe that pleb slop is like necessary.
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Like being going through that pleb thing is necessary when you it's the chum, you know, it's like puberty. I like to say it's like puberty, you have to go. You don't want to stay there forever. But like, I had really convinced myself that the powers that be were super incompetent.
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Like by the time,
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you know, I had huge, I had huge conviction
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the whole way that whole year.
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But I had in Bitcoin, but I was really starting to convince myself that the powers in charge were really dumb, really incompetent,
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right? Because that's what happens when you go down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, you know, a lot of people realize it for the first time.
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But
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when we got to March
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2023,
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and they started,
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they started unthing the bag, their bag of tricks, dude, like the the BTFP.
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Yep, the SWAT acronyms like, dude, how like shame on me for underestimating these guys, dude, these guys, when it comes to kick in the can and surviving,
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do not ever underestimate them. I'm like, so grateful that like, Oh,
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woke me up. It's like, you know, it just woke me up again. It's like, yeah, you you can't go around just totally thinking everyone who's not you as a retard.
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Yeah. Well,
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I mean, I gotta give my personal story here because I know you haven't heard it.
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Sorry, I'm sorry, was. No,
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absolutely. But I was doing my homework because I'm I'm a good podcast host, and I was listening to your show with Rob Hamilton. And one thing he said in the beginning of it was that
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people who got into Bitcoin in the twenty tens had living memory of 2008, 2009. Right? And I think that's one of the reasons why we're having such a hard time getting that new class, getting those new '21 to 25 year olds on board is because they don't have that living memory of 2008, 2009
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viscerally attacking them, right, shaking them to the core. And so I was in college at the time. I was at Tufts. I was studying international relations and Chinese, thought I wanted to be a diplomat. And I come home one September, October day from class, turn on the TV, and I see Hank Paulson say, if we don't give the banks a trillion dollars,
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we're gonna have tanks on the streets. It's gonna be martial law.
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And that
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flipped my worldview upside down. Right? And ever since then, I thought
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hyperinflation was gonna be there by 2012.
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Right? I was listening to Porter Stansberry and, of course, Peter Schiff at the time.
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Super hyperinflation
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doomers,
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and I didn't find Bitcoin until many, many years later.
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But I that set me down that hole thinking that, yes, the powers of b are completely incompetent. This thing's about to unravel and that we need to prepare for Mad Max because,
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ladies and gentlemen, you don't know what's about to hit you.
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It's wild, dude. Like,
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I was, I was working on a derivatives desk during 2008.
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And
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we were everyone was logically expecting inflation.
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I mean, you're going to print a trillion dollars.
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That was the one thing that everybody did expect. And I feel like the fact that somehow they,
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know,
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somehow,
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but like, you know, that inflation expectation
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was never realized or
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It went into assets. Went into assets. Yeah. So once it wasn't realized for about five, six years,
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I think everyone just is like, I guess, I'm saying even on Wall Street, we're like, I guess we were wrong to think there would be inflation there. There's no reason to think that clearly.
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And I guess there's never going to be
again.
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This is all fine.
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And they just kept going. They just kept going in the next that was really the next five years was full ZERP.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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It's like And gold crashed, and gold crashed. It was ZERP and gold crashed.
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It's wild. So it's
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so important. This is why I have to say, I know
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I'm a little bit of an alienating
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crank, and that's what people tell me.
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But it's so important not to learn the wrong lessons all the time,
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even because though you're in a you may be in a situation in Bitcoin where you feel like it's obvious.
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I mean, you feel like this, you feel like you see the field, you see the chessboard, and you see perfectly.
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But if you take the wrong lesson into the next situation, it's just, you're going to be in a lot of trouble.
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You know, we were sitting here on the precipice of
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I hate to talk about it, because I never talk about it on my on my podcast, to be honest. But since it's since we're days away from this fork, just just going to mention it as an example.
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Not not everyone
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knows my opinion on this thing. But like,
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where I would go back, because, you know, it's not alienating enough to oppose the fork, I'll go back to the block size war and say that I feel like a
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lot of people took the wrong
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lesson away from there, which is
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they think the lesson was small blocks.
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And
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I don't think that's the lesson. I think the lesson was that the network resisted a minority
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group of people who overestimated
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their power.
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The path, you know, in that in that case, it was their mining nodes, but they overestimated
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the power.
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You know, they overestimated their power, and they learnt a hard lesson.
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And what I find in this particular
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episode
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is kind of something similar where
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the network is going to resist a minority group of people who's overestimating
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their power. And it's,
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I say that to say it's like,
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it you have to challenge yourself all the time to ask, are you learning the right lessons? And are you really
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taking
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good information
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into the next situation? Because like when I read the block size word, like three months after I got into Bitcoin, and I was like, yeah, small blocks was right.
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Right? Clue. Because that's all you're capable of really thinking at the time.
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Yeah, I mean, I think the lesson that was not learned that should have been is that there was overwhelming consensus
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to move, like, to move towards Segway and everything in 2017. Right? Like, 90%
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of Hash rate and all the players outside of the New York agreement wanted to go a certain way, and that's why Bitcoin went that way. It was, as you said, a minority trying to attack or have their way with Bitcoin,
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and 90% plus of the network and economic value said, no. You can't do that.
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These guys don't have that. Right? They've got 5,000 nodes and how many Bitcoin? I mean, I don't know, but they don't have the hash rate. That's for sure. So
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I feel so bad because
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a lot of these people
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like, is it plebslop that they got addicted
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to? You know? Like, they they got this you have to be willing to have an open mind with these things, and you gotta have strong opinions loosely held. Right? You gotta be able to adapt to new information that comes your way,
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And
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they're going to face reality in a couple of days here. And we'll see what happens.
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Where
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do they go? Right?
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I mean, I think an outcome that an outcome where they keep their coins is good is still a good outcome.
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You know, this is a difficult high stakes ruthless game, as we found out last week.
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You know, I mean,
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like, was just God, I was ten hours
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away when I found out about the cold card hack.
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You know, I had cold card exposure,
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but
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not I
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made my own seed. I was okay. But like, what I was thinking, man was like, dude.
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The passing of all the purity tests didn't save anybody who lost and it's like the saddest, the most unfortunate thing. But that's like a lesson I wish I could
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echo without being cold about it without being a dick
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and
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heartless about it. I don't want to be heartless. I want to express the ruthlessness of
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what we're dealing with.
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Right?
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But
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so I say this with incredible empathy.
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Right? And it's almost with empathy that I want to make sure people understand how ruthless this shit is.
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But you know, the social aspects of I mean, you and I go to conferences and make friends with a lot of people. And you know, it's like, you know, it's fucking hard to take somebody you're friends with and tell them they're wrong, or they're being stupid, or it's the last thing you fucking want to do.
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You know,
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it's club slop is like substrate.
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It's like the substrate of the problem where meaning
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it is addictive.
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It is not helpful.
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It is, you know, part so it's like part of the problem if you can't see beyond it.
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But it is helpful to onboard, right? It's helpful to onboard. That's right. And so we have to like,
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so the reason I do a fish podcast,
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I do a fishbowl. Everyone told me I was stupid for doing this fish podcast. Like why you you already got two podcasts. What the hell are you doing? Then this is like, now I got five. But like, why are you doing a fish podcast? Because fish
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is the band that figured out over forty years, how to create a network effect
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through grassroots.
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Okay, how do you onboard people?
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And then how do you keep them there while maintaining the values
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of that culture? And a band doesn't stay as connected to their fans for forty two years
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without that happening.
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And I thought that was I thought that was type of stuff I wanted to share with Bitcoiners. I want them to understand,
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know, how Here's question.
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Here's a What question for
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is better at onboarding young people? I'm talking 25 and younger, fish or Bitcoin?
300
00:21:59.185 --> 00:22:07.585
It's a really tough question. I mean, fish is really bad at onboarding people. That's the thing. So, like, the whole what fish did was, like, I don't get fish was just like, I don't care.
301
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We are who we are.
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You want to onboard,
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you're gonna, you're gonna follow the like, you're really gonna, you're gonna follow the rules of how people want to treat you at a show.
304
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Okay, but like fish
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never became,
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you know, they were never, they never became like, they never had a high selling album, they never got any industry support because,
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and then the fact of the matter is they also, you know, they never did what we want Bitcoin to do,
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which is,
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you know, fish probably topped out as a trillion dollar asset like Bitcoin did last year, something like that, right? And in some ways, I have said that that's like the best we can hope for in certain ways, like we get to have our Bitcoin is free, you know, we have our freedom, we have our ability to do everything within the most of the world doesn't care. And that's great.
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But so
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I think fish is terrible at onboarding.
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They're weird. Their songs are really long. They're not you know, they're not that catchy.
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Bitcoin is sounds way
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like Bitcoin.
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Well, but I mean, it's like,
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is it? Norm MacDonald had a joke about like, he's like gambling is a disease,
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but it's the only disease that could make you rich.
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I mean, so like that allure is always there. And I don't know how hard we even need to try with Bitcoin, because that's always the allure that's going to bring people in. And I don't know how much you want to stroke that because
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we can find ourselves in five years with the price having not moved like we are right now.
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And it's got to be about more. And I, you know,
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the onboarding is not the problem with Bitcoin. We know this.
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It's not the onboarding, it's then it's the rest.
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How do you do the work?
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How do you actually engage yourself to do the work? And I think part of you has to be afraid of losing it.
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Part of you has to be
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just so dedicated to it working,
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right?
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And so I focus on education because that's like my thing is Bitcoin doesn't need more believers. It needs more understanders.
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Yeah.
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One of the biggest revelations of this last week in the cold card
incident
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is the lack of
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understanding of how to do a simple transaction. The amount of people who had onboarded onto a cold card and don't know how to move their Bitcoin off of a cold card.
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That is a horrible travesty of
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themselves, but also us as a community,
335
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not harping on the fact that this needs to be practiced. Right? Like, sending an air gap transaction is not a natural thing. It's unlike anything else you have to do with a computer. Right? And so if you had to do it under duress, the chances of you fat fingering it if you haven't practiced are astronomically higher.
336
00:24:48.145 --> 00:24:50.305
You need to do test transactions.
337
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Take that device out of the drawer. Make sure that the screen still works. So many people have brick devices that they were trying to move at a time of utter panic. Like, this is Yeah. No. Like, this is like a firearm. You gotta practice. You gotta know what you're doing in times when shit is hitting the fan.
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If I had to rate myself
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on how I
340
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like, how did my setup perform in the last week,
341
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I would give myself a solid D.
342
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And the only reason I wouldn't give myself a failing grade is because my funds.
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You know, my keys weren't cracked. Did that. So in other words, I did enough cryptographic work.
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However, when I came home, I'll just admit this to everybody.
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None of my devices worked. They had needed firmware updates, or they had a new computer that didn't have the ports that I had when I set them up.
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And,
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you know, I basically,
348
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what I did do well, is I was, I've always been very good at with Sparrow.
349
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And so as a meetup organizer, and as an educator, I'm always whenever anyone asks what wallet should I get and learn, I always say it's Sparrow.
350
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And then, you know, I've never actually recommended a device.
351
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If anyone out there, I recommend a device, feel free to push back and let me know. But I'm pretty sure I've always basically said learn Sparrow.
352
00:26:13.205 --> 00:26:23.919
And I've always said fine, I use I said I use cold cards, but you have to learn Sparrow. And that's like the one thing I don't care what you do after that. And if you know Sparrow,
353
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then if your devices are all bricked,
354
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it doesn't matter because you just bring your you you should I
355
00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:40.355
don't think you really understand Bitcoin unless you can just bring your keys onto an ElectroMallet or Sparrow wallet and move them like that. And you don't need the devices really.
356
00:26:41.155 --> 00:26:43.875
The devices are only useful for
357
00:26:44.915 --> 00:26:45.795
occasional
358
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spending
359
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occasional
360
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sat movement,
361
00:26:48.755 --> 00:26:50.919
right? But if you're going to use a device,
362
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you need to be testing the shit out of it, especially when you onboard it. So another little thing I had a I had a self setup multisig.
363
00:27:01.080 --> 00:27:05.145
That was the one thing I had a little bit of confidence in that one.
364
00:27:05.945 --> 00:27:11.304
But I refuse. That wasn't the place I sent my funds to because I hadn't tested it in a while.
365
00:27:11.785 --> 00:27:14.585
And I just knew I could be sending it into a fucking toilet.
366
00:27:15.870 --> 00:27:20.190
Right? Like if you hadn't tested like multi sig, instead it was self created,
367
00:27:20.190 --> 00:27:37.585
just don't want to, you don't want to send any funds into it unless until you have until you start doing this test again. So you know, you can spend out of it. And how could you be using a wallet if you don't know you can spend out of it? How could you have the confidence to put massive amounts of funds into a wallet that you don't already know you can spend out of?
368
00:27:38.625 --> 00:27:41.265
No, it's stupid. A lot of people
369
00:27:41.745 --> 00:27:43.265
did it very stupidly. Yeah.
370
00:27:44.360 --> 00:27:45.000
But I
371
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:47.480
can't blame these people. What
372
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:50.280
I've been critical of is just
373
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just don't think it's constructive.
374
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Don't think it's constructive. Want
375
00:27:56.520 --> 00:27:58.760
to point out the stupidity, but I don't want to
376
00:28:00.215 --> 00:28:08.374
demonize people. But like the what upsets me is that we, I was part of a culture, and we were all part of a culture that,
377
00:28:10.615 --> 00:28:11.654
you know, pushed
378
00:28:12.649 --> 00:28:13.369
this,
379
00:28:14.330 --> 00:28:18.009
we push self custody regardless of people's ability. Yes.
380
00:28:18.730 --> 00:28:22.169
That was completely destroyed this last week, that idea.
381
00:28:22.570 --> 00:28:44.300
And there's a part of that that I believe in still, which is like pushing people to be better than they are. Like, you can do it. You just don't know what you're capable of. But then there's a piece of that that you have to follow through with people then. You can't just be some talking head on a podcast that tells people to be better. Yeah, you can do that with the people in your life that you're going to hold their hand and make sure that they
382
00:28:45.020 -->
00:28:45.820
really
383
00:28:46.220 --> 00:28:47.020
do
384
00:28:47.100 --> 00:28:53.020
realize how what they're capable of. Right? Or you you be their safety net and you Uncle Jim them. And
385
00:28:53.615 --> 00:28:58.815
you know what I mean? But, like, the the we had this culture that is just like, no.
386
00:28:59.215 --> 00:29:01.294
It's if you're not in self custody,
387
00:29:02.495 --> 00:29:04.815
you don't, like You're not a real Bitcoiner.
388
00:29:05.790 --> 00:29:14.190
And I mean, to some extent, it's true. Just I mean, I don't like the word real Bitcoiner, but you're not I I always like to say if you're not suing self custody, you're not
389
00:29:14.990 --> 00:29:17.070
you're definitely not experiencing
390
00:29:17.070 --> 00:29:37.149
the level of freedom. You're not experiencing the power the personal power, but you may not be up for that. Mean, you just A lot of people don't give a shit about that. That's the thing. I care about that because I've been paranoid since the financial crisis that I thought that the government might collapse since the financial crisis. I don't trust the powers that be. I don't trust the banks.
391
00:29:37.389 --> 00:29:49.515
And that's why I push myself to take control of my money to make sure that I am I'm the one in control. And thus, I've done the practice to make sure that I could send my Bitcoin out of a multi sig when I needed to.
392
00:29:49.915 --> 00:29:51.434
But a lot of people just
393
00:29:52.235 --> 00:29:59.595
don't don't care. And it's okay. Like, and so I guess I came to terms with this writing the book, because I was in the minds of
394
00:29:59.835 --> 00:30:00.635
institutional,
395
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.200
like the kind of guys that are going to just,
396
00:30:03.760 --> 00:30:07.039
you you work at Microsoft, and all of a sudden, you got to manage like,
397
00:30:07.360 --> 00:30:09.440
100 Bitcoin or something like that.
398
00:30:09.760 --> 00:30:11.839
And do you care about self custody?
399
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:13.759
Absolutely not.
400
00:30:13.840 --> 00:30:19.335
But I was in the book, I wanted to at least let people know that the people that
401
00:30:19.975 --> 00:30:33.770
use Bitcoin care about that. But if you're not capable of holding that in your custody, you should not do it. This is like as a company, you shouldn't do it. You will wreck your company. You have to crawl before you can walk and you have to walk before you can fly and not everybody's ready for
402
00:30:33.930 --> 00:30:36.810
the being at the apex
403
00:30:36.810 --> 00:30:38.570
of what Bitcoin has to offer.
404
00:30:38.890 --> 00:30:42.570
You know, not every I mean, I think for myself, like not everyone's in their 50s,
405
00:30:42.730 --> 00:30:52.384
that has lived a life that has been around and been experiencing most, you know, if Bitcoin's being adopted by younger people, we have to be way more fucking lenient
406
00:30:52.545 --> 00:30:55.665
about what the expectations are for their glide path.
407
00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:58.759
Oh, 100%.
408
00:31:00.679 --> 00:31:01.240
It's
409
00:31:03.320 --> 00:31:03.720
don't
410
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:06.919
One lesson I think I've learned in the last week is
411
00:31:07.320 --> 00:31:09.400
putting all your eggs in one basket
412
00:31:09.845 --> 00:31:17.205
might not be the smartest idea, right? Because if you've got a decent amount of Bitcoin, like, why not put it in
413
00:31:17.445 --> 00:31:27.190
I mean, there's different options now. There's more options now than ever before, right? There's collaborative multi sig custody. There's the multi sig you set up on yourself. There is
414
00:31:27.990 --> 00:31:34.230
multi institution custody now from on ramp. Like there are options and each has its level of insurance,
415
00:31:35.105 --> 00:31:36.385
whether figuratively
416
00:31:36.385 --> 00:31:37.424
or literally.
417
00:31:37.745 --> 00:31:46.145
You got to pick what's right for you. But I think I'll never again have everything in one basket like I did up until this last week.
418
00:31:47.105 --> 00:31:48.545
Part of why I gave myself a d
419
00:31:49.060 --> 00:31:50.740
is that the only
420
00:31:51.540 --> 00:31:52.900
only device that
421
00:31:53.060 --> 00:31:54.020
I actually
422
00:31:54.500 --> 00:31:56.020
wasn't a cold card.
423
00:31:56.260 --> 00:32:02.580
I ended up throwing everything on that because I didn't want to use the multisig. Right? And then I just said, holy shit.
424
00:32:03.815 --> 00:32:06.375
Oh my god, all my sats are in one place right now.
425
00:32:06.775 --> 00:32:12.135
And I actually don't know where this seed I know where it came from. It was a
426
00:32:13.255 --> 00:32:14.375
seed signer
427
00:32:14.455 --> 00:32:15.335
camera
428
00:32:15.840 --> 00:32:17.440
generated the entropy.
429
00:32:17.919 --> 00:32:21.679
It was a small wallet. It was like it had very little bitcoin on it
430
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:30.825
two weeks ago, you know what I mean? And then it became the place where all my stats were and I hadn't thought that, know, I hadn't even thought about it. So I got into serious emergency mode
431
00:32:31.945 --> 00:32:35.305
remaking keys. And I did nothing
432
00:32:35.465 --> 00:32:37.465
on Monday and Tuesday, but
433
00:32:38.025 --> 00:32:40.345
fucking roll dice validate
434
00:32:41.810 --> 00:32:43.250
iancoleman.io
435
00:32:43.250 --> 00:32:45.490
guys, iancoleman.io
436
00:32:45.570 --> 00:32:47.970
is a place where you can validate,
437
00:32:48.050 --> 00:32:54.705
you don't have to make your seeds there. But if you're making the seeds from dice rolls, and you're using a program, like the program,
438
00:32:54.785 --> 00:32:59.985
this is going to sound bad guys. But if there's a program that was on cold card GitHub,
439
00:32:59.985 --> 00:33:01.505
called rolls. Py,
440
00:33:02.065 --> 00:33:05.585
and it's a way, it would be a way in Python that you can
441
00:33:06.200 -->
00:33:07.480
put your dice rolls.
442
00:33:08.040 --> 00:33:10.600
And it'll give you it'll convert them into words.
443
00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:11.799
And
444
00:33:12.840 --> 00:33:15.399
I and several people have validated that
445
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:17.320
file, that program.
446
00:33:18.775 --> 00:33:25.255
It's I don't think it's on their GitHub anymore. By the way, it's got taken down, I think in the last in the last couple days.
447
00:33:26.055 --> 00:33:29.174
But reach out if you if you if you want that.
448
00:33:29.415 --> 00:33:29.655
But
449
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:35.360
there's all kind of Yeah, all I'm saying is, there are ways that you can validate
450
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:36.559
that
451
00:33:37.120 --> 00:33:46.160
these things are gonna work, you have to have a way. Okay? It's one thing to roll your dice. And then there's like, now what do I do? How do I convert these dice rolls into fucking words?
452
00:33:46.855 --> 00:33:52.294
So there's programs that are fully available that you can validate. They're open source.
453
00:33:52.775 --> 00:33:54.455
Don't rely on review.
454
00:33:54.534 --> 00:33:55.894
Just look at them.
455
00:33:56.215 --> 00:33:57.174
Look at them yourself.
456
00:34:00.670 --> 00:34:07.230
Do some tests. So I made like 10 dummy test seeds, I validate them all on iancoleman.io,
457
00:34:07.230 --> 00:34:09.310
right? And once I was comfortable
458
00:34:09.630 --> 00:34:10.830
that that worked,
459
00:34:11.715 --> 00:34:13.475
I took my computer offline.
460
00:34:14.675 --> 00:34:19.075
And I started making seeds myself. And it was like two days of work
461
00:34:19.475 --> 00:34:23.795
to get myself comfortable. This is a real measure twice cut once exercise.
462
00:34:25.029 --> 00:34:29.109
And I do think Bitcoin requires a certain amount of maturity.
463
00:34:29.670 --> 00:34:30.869
That I honestly,
464
00:34:30.869 --> 00:34:36.790
I'm not a big like, I'm a guy that likes to hit the Okay button the second it comes up. I'm like, okay, I don't even read them warnings.
465
00:34:37.190 --> 00:34:42.305
Okay, okay. Right? That's, that's the kind of maturity I have in the world. Okay. But like,
466
00:34:43.265 --> 00:34:43.985
you know,
467
00:34:45.105 --> 00:34:48.465
you got to do that work that validation work.
468
00:34:49.345 --> 00:34:49.665
And
469
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:54.440
so that you don't, you know, in four years from now,
470
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.560
when another thing when another thing happens,
471
00:34:58.680 --> 00:35:00.040
you can ask yourself,
472
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:08.575
do I need to panic? And so in my haste, by the way, I'm pretty sure I doxxed my, I'm pretty sure I doxxed my
473
00:35:09.855 --> 00:35:13.055
privacy coins that I had. Pretty sure I did that. So like,
474
00:35:13.295 --> 00:35:21.055
that's why I give myself a D, I give myself a really low grade, and the lowest grade you can get without losing your coins. I think I did all the wrong things. And,
475
00:35:22.859 --> 00:35:24.619
you know, you take the L's,
476
00:35:24.859 --> 00:35:33.660
I think, you know, you take the L's, they're not anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And I had accepted the possibility I would lose my coins too. Actually,
477
00:35:34.220 --> 00:35:40.085
that was a reality for me. I felt like I found money when I didn't lose anything. Yeah.
478
00:35:40.645 --> 00:35:46.245
Well, you got your point. So giving yourself a D is a pretty harsh grade, but lessons learned, right?
479
00:35:46.725 --> 00:35:58.369
And I guess the question for you from the math side is what percentage of Bitcoin in general do you think needs to be in self custody to still have leverage over the black rocks and the institutions?
480
00:36:01.650 --> 00:36:03.490
Oh my god. Well,
481
00:36:03.650 --> 00:36:05.375
I don't God.
482
00:36:06.575 --> 00:36:11.615
I would I would move that question back. And I would ask on a personal level, everything starts at a personal level.
483
00:36:11.935 --> 00:36:13.375
Okay, so like,
484
00:36:13.535 --> 00:36:15.135
I don't think it's our jobs
485
00:36:15.295 --> 00:36:22.280
to be a cult to necessarily collectively fight BlackRock, I think it's our jobs to make ourselves as powerful as we can.
486
00:36:22.680 --> 00:36:28.840
So then the question and I think it's a very personal question as to how much Bitcoin does a person need in self custody.
487
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:30.440
But
488
00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:40.105
there, I do believe there is an answer. And it's up to everyone to discover that for themselves. I don't know if it's 10% of their money or 90% of their money. I just don't know the answer to that.
489
00:36:40.665 --> 00:36:42.025
I thought through it
490
00:36:42.425 --> 00:36:46.425
analytically. And I would, you know, I think there does exist an answer
491
00:36:46.665 --> 00:36:47.945
that minimizes
492
00:36:48.425 --> 00:36:49.865
a person's time preference
493
00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:51.400
in
494
00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:53.960
their life. I think too little
495
00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:55.400
will make you
496
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:56.920
paranoid.
497
00:36:57.800 --> 00:36:58.680
Too much.
498
00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:00.760
Do the same. And do
499
00:37:01.560 --> 00:37:02.600
the same. Right?
500
00:37:03.155 --> 00:37:07.555
So it's this is like the whole act of owning Bitcoin is
501
00:37:07.875 --> 00:37:11.715
the act of finding that balance and discovering yourself and
502
00:37:11.955 --> 00:37:16.700
figuring out where figuring out where your best self is. Yeah.
503
00:37:16.940 --> 00:37:25.260
And then once Yeah, and it takes our best selves to fight the black rocks. I don't know. I don't know that there's an answer like 30% of
504
00:37:25.980 --> 00:37:27.420
I it's
505
00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:27.740
going to be
506
00:37:28.734 --> 00:37:32.655
a dollar amount that just I think it's a market cap answer.
507
00:37:34.175 --> 00:37:35.295
Know, and then
508
00:37:35.615 --> 00:37:40.335
it's there's a market cap that needs to be held in self custody. So if
509
00:37:40.815 --> 00:37:43.980
I mean, do you know the answer to the question how much of
510
00:37:44.220 --> 00:37:51.820
Bitcoin's market cap right now? What is it? A trillion dollars or close to it? How much of that is held in self custody? Do you know the answer to that? It's around 50%.
511
00:37:51.980 --> 00:37:54.060
It's around 50%. Okay. So right.
512
00:37:54.700 --> 00:37:55.260
So then
513
00:37:56.255 --> 00:37:58.575
if it's 500,000,000,
514
00:37:58.655 --> 00:38:00.175
sorry, 500,000,000,000.
515
00:38:00.655 --> 00:38:01.615
That's held.
516
00:38:02.095 --> 00:38:03.055
My guess
517
00:38:03.375 --> 00:38:05.615
is it probably needs to be 20x that
518
00:38:07.135 --> 00:38:09.660
10 to 20x to make a dent.
519
00:38:10.300 --> 00:38:16.780
Like the answer is Bitcoin is not going to check the banks until it has a low high enough balances,
520
00:38:17.180 --> 00:38:18.540
right? Until it represents
521
00:38:19.740 --> 00:38:22.540
enough balances that
522
00:38:23.725 --> 00:38:26.685
the central banks can only steal from themselves.
523
00:38:27.485 --> 00:38:29.245
Now it doesn't have to be a 100%.
524
00:38:29.885 --> 00:38:31.165
It just has to be
525
00:38:31.725 --> 00:38:33.165
enough that
526
00:38:33.244 --> 00:38:34.365
it does the check.
527
00:38:34.940 --> 00:38:35.980
Right
528
00:38:35.980 --> 00:38:43.500
now it's like five. It's like nothing. It's a pea. Yeah, it's a fucking grain of sand. It does nothing to check to check the,
529
00:38:44.539 --> 00:38:49.095
you know, the finance the current system. So it needs to be probably 10 to 20 x is my guess.
530
00:38:49.415 --> 00:38:52.055
So going back to the percentage wise,
531
00:38:52.295 --> 00:39:05.350
actually, British Hoddle, of all people, said this on the Internet. He goes, if you really think that the system is gonna collapse, put a percentage likelihood to it. Right? And then use that to multiply against your stack and put that much into self custody.
532
00:39:05.590 --> 00:39:10.630
And I guess if you're like if you believe in the system, then I guess that that makes sense. Right?
533
00:39:10.950 --> 00:39:18.070
But then you have the opposite end of the spectrum where you have Matt Cratter coming out and saying, this is the perfect attack to make everybody
534
00:39:18.565 --> 00:39:21.845
move their Bitcoin over into exchanges
535
00:39:22.245 --> 00:39:32.085
in case there's some financial crisis and a bail in is gonna happen. Right? So it's like the whole spectrum is wide out on the timeline right now. I disagreed with both of them.
536
00:39:32.725 --> 00:39:35.440
Thing with British hodl's statement was,
537
00:39:35.520 --> 00:39:40.640
personally, I don't I believe the probability of the system collapsing is pretty close to zero.
538
00:39:41.520 --> 00:39:46.160
I'm just not a I'm not a person who thinks the system's collapsing in our lifetime.
539
00:39:47.405 --> 00:39:51.965
It works way too well right now to think that there's not a lot of runway still.
540
00:39:54.525 --> 00:39:55.085
Just
541
00:39:55.405 --> 00:40:00.845
don't What about AI though, dude? We just saw Citadel get attacked by AI, water plants in Minneapolis
542
00:40:00.845 --> 00:40:08.340
get attacked by AI, And now BTC pay server as of this conversation is getting attacked by AI. So I mean, that is a new paradigm.
543
00:40:08.420 --> 00:40:13.620
Yes, it is. But I mean, again, I would say don't ever underestimate.
544
00:40:13.780 --> 00:40:15.780
Just don't you cannot underestimate them.
545
00:40:16.485 --> 00:40:18.565
They have all the power at their disposal.
546
00:40:19.125 --> 00:40:19.765
And,
547
00:40:20.085 --> 00:40:23.765
you know, the again, this is sort of like the bad news.
548
00:40:23.925 --> 00:40:27.685
It's like the bad news of the fork, too, right? It's like if you are,
549
00:40:28.165 --> 00:40:32.005
you're relying on 5% of the population, and we have way less than that,
550
00:40:32.750 --> 00:40:41.710
you know, it's the there's too many people that need this system to exist. And they will, it's just not going to happen. I don't think it's going to happen in our lifetimes.
551
00:40:42.109 --> 00:40:45.069
So I don't I just don't know that it's a useful heuristic
552
00:40:45.069 --> 00:40:45.390
to,
553
00:40:46.155 --> 00:40:50.475
to plan for but that doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that
554
00:40:50.955 --> 00:40:53.275
I have I can be self determined.
555
00:40:54.395 --> 00:41:01.675
And that's really it. So there's no math again, it's like, is the amount I need to hold that maximizes my ability to be self determined?
556
00:41:02.240 --> 00:41:04.960
Right? Which means I'm making the best decisions.
557
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:07.680
And it's not, it's not 100%
558
00:41:07.680 --> 00:41:12.720
of my assets, and it's not 0%. It's somewhere in between. And everybody is different.
559
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:15.440
It's just how you're made up and how strong you are.
560
00:41:16.565 --> 00:41:25.125
You know, it's and then you know, you try to build strength to, I think, make that number creep higher in your life. That's pretty much the game.
561
00:41:25.845 --> 00:41:28.644
And Crater, what the fuck is he talking about? Right? It's like,
562
00:41:30.180 --> 00:41:37.460
yeah, okay, there's going to be money moving to exchange like this week, because people are worried, but I think that it's not going be long before they don't trust
563
00:41:38.180 --> 00:41:40.420
an AI attack on the exchanges either. So
564
00:41:42.755 --> 00:41:44.275
That's not an answer. Like,
565
00:41:44.515 --> 00:41:49.155
me, the idea I've heard this idea floated out that like, this is a state attack with gold card. Like,
566
00:41:49.715 --> 00:41:51.475
I don't know, it's hard to take
567
00:41:51.635 --> 00:41:56.995
that one too seriously. It
really does look like NVK and his fucking CTO were just
568
00:41:57.819 --> 00:42:01.340
really fucked this thing over. Getting high in Toronto. I don't know.
569
00:42:01.740 --> 00:42:05.340
Like, I mean, you know what you know what my light bulb moment was with this?
570
00:42:05.900 --> 00:42:06.380
I I
571
00:42:06.780 --> 00:42:08.780
you see did you ever see the movie Usual Suspects?
572
00:42:09.575 --> 00:42:16.695
I've seen the clips. I've never seen the the full movie. Well, the whole movie is basically like an investigation, and this guy's interrogating
573
00:42:16.695 --> 00:42:33.860
Kevin Spacey's character. And at the end of the movie spoiler alert. Yeah. He walks away like spoil spoiler alert, he fig he realizes it was him the whole time. And he told him literally told him all the clues. And he drops his coffee cup, and it shatters all over the floor. The investigator shot drops his fucking coffee cup and just
574
00:42:34.355 --> 00:42:39.474
did so my moment was that was basically looking at NVKs NIM as deterministic
575
00:42:39.474 --> 00:42:40.435
optimism.
576
00:42:41.075 --> 00:42:45.955
What does that mean to you? It means that he basically made the seed
577
00:42:46.115 --> 00:42:48.035
deterministic with no randomness.
578
00:42:51.050 --> 00:42:51.690
And
579
00:42:52.090 --> 00:42:53.530
this was
580
00:42:53.930 --> 00:42:58.170
that it suggested it was a attack and I think the guy is such a sociopath.
581
00:42:58.730 --> 00:43:00.250
Yeah, he's
582
00:43:00.250 --> 00:43:01.690
telling us the whole time. And
583
00:43:02.765 --> 00:43:03.885
it's just very,
584
00:43:04.125 --> 00:43:07.085
all I'm saying is that it doesn't help.
585
00:43:07.645 --> 00:43:11.805
There's so many weird clues like that, though. And the fact he's still retweeting.
586
00:43:11.805 --> 00:43:23.309
He's retweeting jokes about there being a chip within the sea plates, right? Like, you're not helping, dude. This is purely sociopathic behavior at this point. There's no other way to define it. Yeah,
587
00:43:23.309 --> 00:43:27.390
so like, and there's no benefit to me in giving him the benefit of the doubt anymore. Other
588
00:43:27.950 --> 00:43:35.035
than you know what I mean? It's just like there's no benefit to us in saying, hey, you know, it looks like what it looks like.
589
00:43:35.355 --> 00:43:36.075
Yeah.
590
00:43:36.795 --> 00:43:37.435
Right?
591
00:43:37.595 --> 00:43:39.835
And then there's just the question of, you
592
00:43:40.315 --> 00:43:51.450
know, was were they just nibbling on people's seeds for a while and then come in and suck it out? Or did they get wind that AI was coming in and they just sucked it all out? I mean, that's the really the to me,
593
00:43:52.250 --> 00:43:57.050
the questions are now, right? It's like, how the hell did this all now go on? But they
594
00:43:57.290 --> 00:43:59.369
made the seed totally deterministic.
595
00:44:00.325 --> 00:44:03.685
There's no randomness whatsoever. And so this
596
00:44:05.525 --> 00:44:09.605
is like we are, I can tell you, Rob and I are going to be focusing on entropy.
597
00:44:09.845 --> 00:44:10.405
And
598
00:44:10.645 --> 00:44:15.290
in fact, we I don't like the word entropy. I fucking hate it. I hate that. Like,
599
00:44:16.330 --> 00:44:19.130
think we know what we're doing because we've applied
600
00:44:19.530 --> 00:44:20.250
physics
601
00:44:21.050 --> 00:44:22.010
terms to
602
00:44:22.410 --> 00:44:23.770
it's just randomness.
603
00:44:24.570 --> 00:44:24.970
Know,
604
00:44:25.530 --> 00:44:26.650
it's I hear entropy,
605
00:44:26.975 --> 00:44:28.095
I think decay.
606
00:44:28.175 --> 00:44:31.855
You know? I think things breaking down and dying. I don't think random.
607
00:44:31.855 --> 00:44:38.655
Like, when you want Arjant, you want bigness. Right? Randomness is supposed to mean big. Right? Like, completely unguessable.
608
00:44:38.655 --> 00:44:43.980
Right? Like, that's the point of the the idea here, not death, destruction, breaking apart.
609
00:44:44.140 --> 00:44:46.300
That's exactly it. There's no decay
610
00:44:46.300 --> 00:44:51.820
of the quality of the elliptic sorry, the quality of the discrete log problem. That hardness
611
00:44:52.380 --> 00:44:53.660
has no decay
612
00:44:54.380 --> 00:44:55.980
due to a loss of randomness.
613
00:44:56.865 --> 00:44:57.505
Right?
614
00:44:57.905 --> 00:45:00.545
No, you can say that again to me. Break that down. The
615
00:45:01.105 --> 00:45:03.505
discrete log problem is what protects
616
00:45:04.065 --> 00:45:05.905
your cryptographic secret.
617
00:45:06.545 --> 00:45:07.985
But only if
618
00:45:08.785 --> 00:45:11.825
every all of the two to two fifty six,
619
00:45:12.640 --> 00:45:13.600
etc,
620
00:45:13.600 --> 00:45:16.960
points on the elliptic curve are equally
621
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:17.920
likely
622
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:21.360
and require brute force analysis.
623
00:45:22.240 --> 00:45:24.800
So if they're not equally like that, so that
624
00:45:25.325 --> 00:45:26.445
the way if
625
00:45:26.925 --> 00:45:30.845
the way that breaks down is if they it turns out they're not equally likely.
626
00:45:32.045 --> 00:45:34.365
And then it the brute force
627
00:45:34.765 --> 00:45:37.245
attack surface gets smaller and smaller and smaller,
628
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.920
to the point where if it's actually deterministic,
629
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:42.440
holy fuck, dude, it's like,
630
00:45:43.240 --> 00:45:47.320
it was because this was zero, there was zero randomness apparently.
631
00:45:47.720 --> 00:45:48.200
In
632
00:45:48.600 --> 00:45:49.640
this
633
00:45:50.775 --> 00:45:57.735
particular thing. I want to use your math brain break down this analogy, because I think it's so important to talk to normies about this attack.
634
00:45:58.295 --> 00:46:22.355
BPI put out a video saying that the if you compare each seed to an atom, right, the search space for the cold card
seeds was the amount of atoms in a virus cell. And in for a real true seed that's completely randomly generated, you're looking at the an atom within 20 Milky Way galaxies. So is it 20 Milky Way galaxies, or is it the whole universe that is the true search space in terms of an atom in comparison to it?
635
00:46:24.515 --> 00:46:25.795
It's probably
636
00:46:26.435 --> 00:46:33.690
I mean, I guess you're splitting hairs. Right? Yeah. Guess I should difference. The the important thing from a math standpoint, is that it's,
637
00:46:34.410 --> 00:46:41.130
if we say it's the atoms in the universe, it's really divided by two, because there's this thing called the birthday paradox. It's actually
638
00:46:42.090 --> 00:46:43.930
there and there are algorithms,
639
00:46:44.330 --> 00:46:50.445
it's really two, it's not two to the two fifty six. It's you get two to the two one hundred twenty two to the one hundred twenty eighth protection.
640
00:46:52.045 --> 00:46:55.885
I'm coming out with a book called on hashing that's going to
641
00:46:56.525 --> 00:46:59.165
have a section that explains the birthday paradox.
642
00:46:59.780 --> 00:47:12.340
But it's one of those things. If you've ever heard the question of like, a bunch of people get in the room, what's the likelihood that two people share the same birthday, and it's a lot more than you would expect, you would think, one divided by March.
643
00:47:12.340 --> 00:47:13.300
But it's actually,
644
00:47:14.740 --> 00:47:20.795
you know, it's much higher likelihood is closer to 50%. If there's enough people in the room at two that,
645
00:47:20.955 --> 00:47:25.595
that any two people, not two specific people, but any two people and that's
646
00:47:26.955 --> 00:47:29.275
part of that is in the elliptic curve.
647
00:47:31.630 --> 00:47:38.910
There's a negative y coordinate and a positive y. So elliptic curve equation is y squared equals x cubed plus seven.
648
00:47:39.070 --> 00:47:41.470
And I just like to say it's y squared equals something.
649
00:47:42.030 --> 00:47:45.790
So if y squared equals something, then it has two answers.
650
00:47:46.315 --> 00:47:47.435
Two
651
00:47:47.915 --> 00:47:53.435
possible answers, positive answer and the negative answer, and they're both going to square to equal that, that
652
00:47:53.595 --> 00:47:54.555
y squared.
653
00:47:55.035 --> 00:47:55.755
So
654
00:47:55.915 --> 00:47:59.915
it's half, it's basically it's it's half of the universe.
655
00:48:01.770 --> 00:48:02.890
And
656
00:48:03.450 --> 00:48:07.530
thus do 24 words and 12 words give you the same protection?
657
00:48:09.130 --> 00:48:15.925
No. It's a bit of splitting hairs. The answer is no, but for all practical purposes, no. I people
658
00:48:17.925 --> 00:48:18.725
are
659
00:48:19.525 --> 00:48:23.765
people wouldn't be wrong necessarily to say that it's essentially the same.
660
00:48:24.405 --> 00:48:25.045
But
661
00:48:26.165 --> 00:48:28.840
I don't, you know, at the margins.
662
00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:32.040
Why would you fuck with it? Yeah.
663
00:48:32.200 --> 00:48:37.000
So it's same the same way like you can roll a dice on a die 100 times mathematically,
664
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:42.119
you'll get the you'll get the two fifty six or pretty damn close to two fifty six bits of entropy.
665
00:48:43.205 --> 00:48:45.925
I rolled my dice a lot more than that. Why?
666
00:48:46.725 --> 00:48:47.445
Because,
667
00:48:47.765 --> 00:48:52.965
you know, everyone is like, you have to balance your dice. I'm like, I don't have to balance my dice. Just need to roll more.
668
00:48:53.125 --> 00:48:53.765
You
669
00:48:54.805 --> 00:48:58.870
roll a lot more if your dice are, you know, if you think you're getting half,
670
00:48:59.430 --> 00:49:00.470
half the
671
00:49:00.790 --> 00:49:02.310
half the entropy
672
00:49:03.350 --> 00:49:04.630
roll twice as many.
673
00:49:05.510 --> 00:49:11.235
And why does it 100 rolls give you two fifty six? It's like the log
674
00:49:11.954 --> 00:49:19.395
of six. So you have six outcomes, if you take like the log of six divided by the log of two. So if you just do the math on the algebra of what
675
00:49:19.635 --> 00:49:21.555
of how much you're getting,
676
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:24.320
you're getting two point something
677
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:26.640
bits every roll,
678
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:29.200
if your dice are perfectly balanced.
679
00:49:30.240 --> 00:49:31.280
And so to
680
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:32.480
2.1
681
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:35.200
or 2.2, whatever that math comes out to
682
00:49:35.520 --> 00:49:44.085
times 100 rolls is two twenty two thirty, whatever it is, you get that many bits of entropy, you're well ahead of the two to the one hundred twenty eighth.
683
00:49:44.565 --> 00:49:46.965
You're pretty close to the two fifty six.
684
00:49:47.925 --> 00:49:52.325
Right? That's so that's the that's the intuition basically as to why,
685
00:49:53.270 --> 00:49:54.470
it's 100 rolls.
686
00:49:55.190 --> 00:50:01.510
And do you think that the way that you roll plays any factor into it? Or does it just mean you have to roll more?
687
00:50:02.390 --> 00:50:05.670
Just roll. If you're worried about margin of error, just roll more. Yeah.
688
00:50:06.405 --> 00:50:11.045
You know, that's it. And I really do feel like that's not like an ape
689
00:50:11.605 --> 00:50:17.205
can understand this. And it's almost like people outsmart themselves a little bit too much. I mean, I feel like,
690
00:50:17.845 --> 00:50:18.165
God,
691
00:50:19.140 --> 00:50:24.099
if you can't validate it for yourself, I just don't think any of this stuff is worthless. It's worthwhile.
692
00:50:24.099 --> 00:50:24.500
I
693
00:50:25.700 --> 00:50:28.500
know that hardware wallet
694
00:50:28.980 --> 00:50:29.540
should
695
00:50:30.980 --> 00:50:33.859
be required and expected to provide
696
00:50:34.415 --> 00:50:35.775
great randomness
697
00:50:35.935 -->
00:50:36.735
for,
698
00:50:37.375 --> 00:50:39.055
you know, for their seeds.
699
00:50:39.535 --> 00:50:42.255
But how would how do you validate that?
700
00:50:43.695 --> 00:50:47.295
So you know what I mean? Like, if there's no way to validate it, then what's the point?
701
00:50:47.890 --> 00:50:51.410
What is the point? So this is again, if you're learning the wrong lessons,
702
00:50:52.210 --> 00:50:56.450
the wrong lesson would be thank God I didn't trust NPK. That guy was a dickhead.
703
00:50:57.250 --> 00:51:02.770
I, you know, pat on the back, I was smart not to trust him. And so I'm good. No, that's the wrong lesson.
704
00:51:03.345 --> 00:51:09.905
Or this is okay, you know, yeah, this is isolated to this one thing. And if you didn't get taken by this one thing, you're good. That's not the lesson.
705
00:51:10.305 --> 00:51:12.465
The lesson is do you actually know
706
00:51:12.705 --> 00:51:14.145
that you're good?
707
00:51:14.465 --> 00:51:15.185
And how?
708
00:51:15.345 --> 00:51:15.905
Yeah,
709
00:51:16.865 --> 00:51:18.385
I'm sorry. But if you're trusting
710
00:51:19.050 --> 00:51:20.490
a hardware wallet,
711
00:51:20.810 --> 00:51:22.410
random number generator,
712
00:51:23.450 --> 00:51:28.570
without seeing without, I would say this without like a robust review.
713
00:51:30.010 --> 00:51:37.385
I don't think I think you're fooling yourself. Okay, but then I think the question leads to how big of a blocker to
714
00:51:38.025 --> 00:51:45.065
adoption and self custody are dice rolls, right? Like what percent of the people that you onboard into Bitcoin would actually roll dice?
715
00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:52.680
I think most should. I think most would. I'd I'm I'm what am I fucking crazy? Like, I just don't think that's a big deal. That's a tiny I think you are crazy.
716
00:51:53.160 --> 00:51:55.720
Think it's a But you're you're a mathematician.
717
00:51:55.720 --> 00:51:59.160
No. No. This is attractive to the ADIQ
718
00:51:59.160 --> 00:51:59.400
people.
719
00:52:00.585 --> 00:52:18.900
You know what I mean? I really think the mathematicians are going to get fucked over, because they're going to trust the math too. This is a thing that you could do to be sure that it's just basically nobody could recreate what you're doing. You're doing the thing, and no one can recreate it. That's the only way you know that it's good.
720
00:52:19.940 --> 00:52:36.655
I would bet you more than half the people who use a hardware wallet think the Bitcoin is on the hardware wallet. You know what I'm saying here? But we can't be like DEI here and be like, oh, we're gonna lower the standards just because we need adoption. I mean, that's not how it's gonna go. It's gonna be ruthless and people are gonna lose coins
721
00:52:36.975 --> 00:52:40.210
by telling them that they can trust things. That's
722
00:52:40.770 --> 00:52:47.730
why I have 2,000 followers and not 100,000 followers probably. But the reality is, I just don't
think we can do that to people.
723
00:52:48.450 --> 00:52:52.610
Can't in good conscience do that and to be like, you know, well, it's going to hurt adoption.
724
00:52:53.445 --> 00:52:58.325
I don't think I'm being piling an ish either to think that I feel like rolling dice is
725
00:52:59.285 --> 00:53:00.645
a rite of passage
726
00:53:01.045 --> 00:53:02.565
for Bitcoiners.
727
00:53:02.565 --> 00:53:03.845
And I'm
728
00:53:03.845 --> 00:53:11.590
going to make it the standard personally, and say, You know what, you're not cool. Unless unless you do it yourself. You're really not. By definition,
729
00:53:11.590 --> 00:53:13.510
you're not cool. Like you can't
730
00:53:13.750 --> 00:53:15.270
possibly feel good
731
00:53:15.830 --> 00:53:17.030
during a theft.
732
00:53:17.430 --> 00:53:19.590
Unless you did it unless you did that yourself.
733
00:53:20.070 --> 00:53:20.790
Yeah, I mean,
734
00:53:21.665 --> 00:53:24.945
I thought myself as a pretty hardcore Bitcoiner,
735
00:53:25.105 --> 00:53:27.025
but I didn't roll the dice, not
736
00:53:27.345 --> 00:53:31.585
yet. I I have them right here right now, right? I got them on my desk.
737
00:53:31.905 --> 00:53:34.945
I haven't rolled them yet. I'm waiting for the dust to settle and everything, but
738
00:53:36.370 --> 00:53:37.570
yeah. It's
739
00:53:39.490 --> 00:53:44.050
I do think I mean, I've I've talked to a lot of people about Bitcoin
740
00:53:44.050 --> 00:53:51.185
and tried to onboard them. And I do think you're right that at the end of the day, this should be part of the
741
00:53:51.425 --> 00:53:59.105
canon, right? This should be the part of the book. When you want to do Bitcoin the right way, you probably should generate your own entropy.
742
00:53:59.505 --> 00:54:06.600
But for mass adoption, but I guess that's not what we're talking about here when it comes to mass adoption isn't about dice rolls.
743
00:54:07.160 --> 00:54:08.680
Okay, mass adoption.
744
00:54:08.920 --> 00:54:12.600
You know, there's a great saying, I love it. It's that
745
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:19.000
it was a question of like, how do you teach somebody how to build? How do you teach somebody how to build a ship?
746
00:54:19.725 --> 00:54:23.005
And the answer is you teach them to long to be at sea.
747
00:54:23.805 --> 00:54:24.525
Yeah.
748
00:54:25.245 --> 00:54:27.565
You have to want it bad.
749
00:54:27.725 --> 00:54:30.125
You have to want it really bad.
750
00:54:31.960 --> 00:54:34.680
And I think the motivator of that,
751
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:39.160
it's either fear or greed. And it's fear that's going to push you that direction, right?
752
00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:40.680
For sure.
753
00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:47.400
This one is fear based. Yeah, it's both. It's both you got to have, you you got to be in touch with your greed, you got to be in touch with your fear.
754
00:54:48.555 --> 00:54:49.195
And,
755
00:54:49.675 --> 00:54:52.075
you know, they're both very good and powerful.
756
00:54:52.234 --> 00:54:52.795
And
757
00:54:53.275 --> 00:55:07.730
you don't rise above fear and greed until you have a bitcoin seed that you fucking trust. And you got you got good you got your you got a good amount of wealth in a bitcoin seed that you fully trust. That's it's like, you know, you don't rise above those basic emotions
758
00:55:08.050 --> 00:55:08.850
until
759
00:55:08.930 --> 00:55:09.810
you do that.
760
00:55:10.930 --> 00:55:12.530
Self actualize
761
00:55:12.530 --> 00:55:17.730
through Bitcoin. That's the beauty of it, right? And that's why like, yeah, okay, you know, who cares if Michael Saylor doesn't
762
00:55:17.945 --> 00:55:25.545
hold his keys in self custody? So he doesn't, he's fine. He's already he's a happy person. He doesn't need that personal power that I get.
763
00:55:27.225 --> 00:55:30.025
Know, but you don't get you don't get that alchemic
764
00:55:30.860 --> 00:55:31.660
human
765
00:55:32.140 --> 00:55:32.860
upgrade
766
00:55:33.740 --> 00:55:47.865
when you are relying on yourself and you realize no one's coming to save you when the shit goes down. And, you know, there's more to worry about than the price of Bitcoin. There's more to worry about than the Fed. Like, it's always like, am I solid? That's
767
00:55:47.865 --> 00:55:49.385
how you then that's how you grow.
768
00:55:49.785 --> 00:55:58.345
That's how you become the person that actually makes Bitcoin work. And that's going to take a it's just slow, man. Like we mass adoption
769
00:55:58.505 --> 00:55:59.785
is
770
00:56:00.730 --> 00:56:04.730
you can't even I don't even think self custody is part of the mass adoption movement.
771
00:56:05.210 --> 00:56:11.530
Right? Self custody. I posted this to LinkedIn yesterday. Finally wrote finally wrote something for LinkedIn.
772
00:56:15.345 --> 00:56:19.585
Judge me all you want, but there's people there that care what I about my opinions.
773
00:56:19.825 --> 00:56:20.625
So
774
00:56:21.585 --> 00:56:23.745
I wrote, I said like,
775
00:56:24.785 --> 00:56:33.300
I still think that the subculture of Bitcoin, the most important subculture of Bitcoin is the subculture that cares, that demands self custody.
776
00:56:33.940 --> 00:56:41.060
I'll always think that and I will always think that Bitcoin has very little value. Have an unyielding opinion that has very little value.
777
00:56:42.099 --> 00:56:43.140
If it can't be
778
00:56:43.745 --> 00:56:45.185
if it can't be that for people.
779
00:56:47.025 --> 00:56:47.745
Literally,
780
00:56:48.305 --> 00:56:56.065
gives a shit about it if you can't take complete control about it? You've got baseball cards, otherwise. You've got 21,000,000 baseball cards if
781
00:56:56.705 --> 00:56:59.790
people can't hold it for themselves and know that they own it.
782
00:57:01.470 --> 00:57:02.190
So
783
00:57:03.230 --> 00:57:04.750
to me, it's up to us.
784
00:57:05.310 --> 00:57:07.070
It's just up to the individual
785
00:57:07.310
--> 00:57:10.110
to do whatever it takes to make that work.
786
00:57:11.230 --> 00:57:13.630
It's not like mass adoption is not our responsibility.
787
00:57:15.145 --> 00:57:17.145
Nobody gave us that responsibility.
788
00:57:17.224 --> 00:57:17.865
Right?
789
00:57:18.904 --> 00:57:23.625
It's great. I hope it happens. I think it will naturally at some point. And I think that
790
00:57:24.984 --> 00:57:30.680
the work that the red team is doing right now is going much further towards mass adoption one day,
791
00:57:31.560 --> 00:57:32.120
then
792
00:57:32.520 --> 00:57:33.480
coddling
793
00:57:33.640 --> 00:57:34.520
people's
794
00:57:34.520 --> 00:57:37.640
weakest tendencies, I'll just say, just to get
795
00:57:38.040 --> 00:57:38.360
them in.
796
00:57:40.005 --> 00:57:41.605
Yeah. I mean, Bitcoin
797
00:57:43.285 --> 00:57:44.965
needs to be cool
798
00:57:45.045 --> 00:57:55.090
in some regard. Right? And I think the red team is one of the coolest things to come out of Bitcoin in a minute. It's way cooler than a treasury company.
799
00:57:55.330 --> 00:57:58.530
That's for sure. And the fact that a decentralized
800
00:57:58.530 --> 00:58:00.450
community could rally,
801
00:58:00.530 --> 00:58:03.810
get its smartest brains all focused in one direction,
802
00:58:04.050 --> 00:58:05.890
find the funding, get the tools,
803
00:58:06.050 --> 00:58:16.365
use the latest tech in the world to save people millions of dollars is an unbelievable story and something that I think will touch a lot of people outside of Bitcoin right now.
804
00:58:17.725 --> 00:58:25.099
It's really inspiring. And the thing is, I think it inspires. That's the thing to me that'll have a long lasting impact. I'm going to remember
805
00:58:25.339 --> 00:58:29.020
the fact that a couple of things that gave me confidence in Bitcoin.
806
00:58:29.339 --> 00:58:32.700
One was the fact that people who rolled their own
807
00:58:33.579 --> 00:58:35.500
that did roll their own dice.
808
00:58:37.915 --> 00:58:40.875
They didn't just get through it and survive, but they knew they were going to.
809
00:58:41.835 --> 00:58:44.875
It's like a big difference. It's a big distinction, right?
810
00:58:47.610 --> 00:58:53.690
It's more, Like, it's just as important that you're confident in your survival than that you end up surviving.
811
00:58:54.490 --> 00:58:59.690
Okay, right. And so I'm going to remember that that's how a lot of people did get through this with that kind of power.
812
00:59:00.090 --> 00:59:02.970
And then I'm going to remember that, like this,
813
00:59:03.684 --> 00:59:04.565
and
814
00:59:04.565 --> 00:59:06.965
I know the red team is not the only people doing this.
815
00:59:08.005 --> 00:59:08.805
Sure,
816
00:59:08.805 --> 00:59:12.805
I'm sure of it, but I just happen to be very close to it. And,
817
00:59:13.204 --> 00:59:14.165
know, they're finding
818
00:59:14.565 --> 00:59:15.684
vulnerabilities
819
00:59:15.684 --> 00:59:18.440
in a lot of
our,
820
00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:24.280
let's just say our friends businesses, and pretty much they're able to look at the entire network.
821
00:59:25.799 --> 00:59:31.400
Rob spent two straight days on libsec p. And I don't know if people are even ready to deal with
822
00:59:32.184 --> 00:59:35.305
the existence of libsec P two fifty six ks one,
823
00:59:35.785 --> 00:59:39.865
which is the cryptography library. It's the most probably the most important,
824
00:59:41.385 --> 00:59:43.224
most important library we have.
825
00:59:43.865 --> 00:59:45.944
You know, when I was in Prague, and I was doing my
826
00:59:46.910 --> 00:59:47.790
mathematical
827
00:59:47.870 --> 00:59:48.750
sovereignty
828
00:59:49.070 --> 00:59:56.110
presentations, I had a slide that I wanted people to know that Bitcoin Core isn't the only repo that we care about.
829
00:59:57.070 --> 01:00:01.470
Libsec P is a big one, too. And it's like, you spend all your time thinking about Bitcoin Core.
830
01:00:02.375 --> 01:00:04.535
You're missing a major,
831
01:00:04.615 --> 01:00:13.255
you're missing something major. And the fact is the distance between us and Bitcoin core is nothing compared to the distance between us and libsecp.
832
01:00:14.055 --> 01:00:15.415
Does libsecp
833
01:00:15.415 --> 01:00:21.880
touch anything else outside of Bitcoin? Like I honestly have no idea. It's all of the cryptography. It's all the cryptography.
834
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:29.319
Every Cryptography for everything that all online security uses? Or is it just cryptography for Bitcoin? The Cryptography for for Bitcoin.
835
01:00:30.055 --> 01:00:30.775
Okay.
836
01:00:32.615 --> 01:00:36.615
It's a massive deal. But what he found was that was the most secure. He beat
837
01:00:37.175 --> 01:00:38.855
the shit out of that one.
838
01:00:39.655 --> 01:00:52.360
Because that was such a that's so important. Right? If that's like, it's like when the Ukraine Russia thing went down, that's like how they all got together and said nobody fucks with Chernobyl, right? No one's fucking with that. Right?
839
01:00:53.720 --> 01:01:12.730
Yeah, not. Maybe that's not the best analogy. Like, it makes sense. It makes sense. Yeah. But finding like that gave me a lot of confidence knowing that somebody like Rob and just because I, you know, we do a math podcast and talk about lipstick pee all the time. So I know how much it means to him. I know how important it is
840
01:01:13.530 --> 01:01:17.930
to him. So to know he's beaten the crap out of that for a couple of days straight.
841
01:01:18.490 --> 01:01:20.970
And he comes out and says that's the most secure repo we have.
842
01:01:22.244 --> 01:01:23.285
That feels pretty good.
843
01:01:23.924 --> 01:01:35.444
And what's crazy is that he didn't have the capability to beat the shit out of it like he did this week until a month ago, right? Until Kimi K3 and Kwen just came out. They needed these Chinese frontier models to be able to do all this work.
844
01:01:36.750 --> 01:01:39.470
What a crazy world we're living in. And it's like,
845
01:01:39.950 --> 01:01:41.230
again, I was
846
01:01:44.350 --> 01:01:44.990
just
847
01:01:45.310 --> 01:01:50.430
in a situation where I had to deal with my own keys. I didn't have the oxygen. I had to get oxygen for myself. These
848
01:01:51.150 --> 01:01:53.205
guys were just ready to,
849
01:01:53.445 --> 01:01:55.685
you know, like they're real firefighters.
850
01:01:56.245 --> 01:01:59.845
Really, they were already secure, strong and ready. And,
851
01:02:00.885 --> 01:02:02.165
you know, as
852
01:02:02.405 --> 01:02:07.285
we evolve, we'll have more people like that. You know, and I'm sure there again, I'm sure there were more people
853
01:02:07.790 --> 01:02:13.550
that were doing work like that. I've heard stories. I've heard stories about people in other countries too, that are just like
854
01:02:13.790 --> 01:02:14.750
grassroots,
855
01:02:14.750 --> 01:02:19.550
like calling everyone they know and helping them. Know, there's a lot of story. There's a lot of that going
856
01:02:20.685 --> 01:02:23.325
I mean, another good lesson is thank
857
01:02:23.325 --> 01:02:27.645
God Coldcard wasn't more popular, right, that they were not really
858
01:02:28.045 --> 01:02:28.765
semi
859
01:02:29.565 --> 01:02:32.845
failing business, I guess. I mean, especially compared to treasurer or ledger,
860
01:02:33.085 --> 01:02:37.060
like if it happened to either of those, this would be all over front page news.
861
01:02:37.780 --> 01:02:39.300
It's wild, dude. It's
862
01:02:39.859 --> 01:02:47.300
wild. But then again, don't get complacent because you had a ledger or a treasurer or a seed signer or whatever it was.
863
01:02:48.995 --> 01:02:56.195
It freaked me out. I mean, I saw seed made a tweet and I responded to it. And it wasn't a bad tweet or anything. But it was just like,
864
01:02:57.635 --> 01:03:03.555
you know, he was trying to basically trying to say, I'm glad we learned the lesson that it wasn't self custody that it was just a bad company.
865
01:03:04.140 --> 01:03:08.540
And I basically said, Well, I don't think that's the right lesson because it's not that it's a bad company.
866
01:03:10.140 --> 01:03:11.099
I
867
01:03:11.579 --> 01:03:15.740
don't even know if it's possible for seed signer to tell me how secure
868
01:03:15.980 --> 01:03:17.099
the
869
01:03:17.645 --> 01:03:25.005
my seed was, because they don't know the parts I use to make to Yeah, they have no idea. Right? It's not
870
01:03:27.484 --> 01:03:30.365
that's not I mean, it's not to disparage
871
01:03:30.540 --> 01:03:37.180
seed or anything like that. But it's to say we have to have a very much more we have to have so much more rigor
872
01:03:37.420 --> 01:03:38.140
in
873
01:03:38.300 --> 01:03:39.660
making statements
874
01:03:39.660 --> 01:03:41.820
that we're going to follow that, you know, the
875
01:03:42.380 --> 01:03:43.260
concluding
876
01:03:44.060 --> 01:03:49.295
concluding knowledge that we're going to take out of this. We have to be very rigorous.
877
01:03:49.615 --> 01:03:50.095
Yeah.
878
01:03:51.615 --> 01:03:57.935
And I think one thing that's important about the dice rolls is that it also brings a form of ritual and ceremony
879
01:03:57.935 --> 01:03:59.695
to this whole entire process.
880
01:04:00.015 --> 01:04:14.330
When you just get a seed off of a device and you write it down 12 times on a little piece of paper, it's like, okay, but people have no idea. They're like, that's the real thing right there. That's the thing that's most important. They have no idea. But if you're actually rolling these dice and generating these words from your own hand,
881
01:04:15.125 --> 01:04:19.125
It takes a whole entire different level of just importance, I think, in the human psyche.
882
01:04:19.365 --> 01:04:26.085
That's an amazing point. I actually love that. I'm going be building that in. I think we should be looking at dice rolling
883
01:04:26.244 --> 01:04:27.690
as part of
884
01:04:28.010 --> 01:04:30.570
rites of passage and part of the ritual.
885
01:04:31.210 --> 01:04:34.810
And maybe we should be doing more in the culture to celebrate dice.
886
01:04:36.090 --> 01:04:43.175
I've emphasized a lot that I feel like society has lost its sense of risk because we don't have coins anymore to flip around. But
887
01:04:43.975 --> 01:04:45.015
like, I haven't really
888
01:04:45.575 --> 01:04:48.855
but, you know, maybe I gotta talk about dice a little bit more too.
889
01:04:49.415 --> 01:04:50.695
Yeah. I mean,
890
01:04:51.255 --> 01:04:55.655
I mean, there's there's aura in these things. Right? They're they're sort of mystical.
891
01:04:55.655 --> 01:04:56.660
It's chance.
892
01:04:56.660 --> 01:04:58.020
Like, there's an
893
01:04:58.180 --> 01:05:07.620
edge to it. People play dice in alleys. People play dice in casinos. Like, there's a there's a whole entire mythology around dice that could be somewhat incorporated
894
01:05:07.620 --> 01:05:13.935
into into our own here. Yeah. Dude, when I bought my first when I bought that bag of dice from CoinKite
895
01:05:14.095 --> 01:05:22.255
Mhmm. Was, like, you know, four years ago. I bought a bag of dice. It's like a 100 dice. They sell it they sell you a bag. I mean, it basically looked like a bag of drugs.
896
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:27.360
It just wasn't white powder or anything like that. It was a bag of little tiny dice.
897
01:05:27.600 --> 01:05:33.040
Right? But it looked illicit. It had this. It really did have an aura about it like, there's danger in this thing.
898
01:05:33.520 --> 01:05:34.080
Know,
899
01:05:34.640 --> 01:05:35.440
the dice.
900
01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:36.720
There's
901
01:05:36.720 --> 01:05:37.200
trouble here.
902
01:05:38.465 --> 01:05:40.225
It may not be the same afterwards.
903
01:05:40.225 --> 01:05:42.865
I, yeah, I love that, man. I love that.
904
01:05:43.665 --> 01:05:48.785
Yeah, I mean, the memes about dice have been really quick. I mean, I made up one entropic
905
01:05:48.785 --> 01:05:53.210
instead of anthropic and tropic is my new VC company. And
906
01:05:53.930 --> 01:05:56.090
but there there is this let's
907
01:05:56.329 --> 01:05:59.930
let's make this dice rolling ritual
908
01:06:00.089 --> 01:06:03.690
a rite of passage. Right? We don't have those in society at all anymore.
909
01:06:03.930 --> 01:06:10.245
And I think everyone that we can reclaim and make part of our own culture is extremely important.
910
01:06:11.445 --> 01:06:14.485
It's hell yeah. I'm gonna bring that definitely to
911
01:06:14.565 --> 01:06:15.925
my new bid devs.
912
01:06:16.085 --> 01:06:16.645
Cool.
913
01:06:16.965 --> 01:06:19.285
We're gonna make dice a theme. Yeah.
914
01:06:20.340 --> 01:06:27.300
What do you think of the dice that's like in a box with like a 100 dice or whatever and you roll it in the box and it all just lays out?
915
01:06:28.260 --> 01:06:29.540
Do you know what I'm talking about?
916
01:06:30.740 --> 01:06:47.595
Oh, you mean like they're kind like in a trouble bottle? Like a little Yeah. Yeah. Like, you're being trouble where you press the thing and it's just No. It's like this little plastic box, and it has squares for each one of the dice to fall into. And you've got, like, 50 dice in there or whatever, but you just shake up the box, and then they just naturally fall into place in these little squares.
917
01:06:48.260 --> 01:06:50.740
I think we need academic institutions
918
01:06:50.900 --> 01:06:56.420
to study the randomness of these things. This is your job, sir. This is why you're here. My
919
01:06:56.740 --> 01:06:59.220
daughter is a budding mathematician.
920
01:06:59.380 --> 01:07:01.220
And this is the kind of stuff like,
921
01:07:01.380 --> 01:07:05.165
we need people to say, here's the efficacy
922
01:07:05.165 --> 01:07:07.965
of rolling one die 100 times.
923
01:07:08.285 --> 01:07:11.005
Here's the efficacy of rolling 100 die at a time.
924
01:07:11.405 --> 01:07:12.045
Right?
925
01:07:12.285 --> 01:07:14.445
We need people to study these things,
926
01:07:14.845 --> 01:07:15.085
and
927
01:07:15.770 --> 01:07:21.690
help share that information with us. Maybe we need to do these rituals so that we just have more of a sense for ourselves.
928
01:07:21.930 --> 01:07:22.570
Yeah.
929
01:07:23.130 --> 01:07:25.130
Mean, Trace Meyer had the
930
01:07:25.849 --> 01:07:27.450
January 3 was the
931
01:07:28.335 --> 01:07:48.330
call the exchange. Right? Get your keys off the exchange day. We need a dice rolling day. Because all these things need to be practiced. Right? If it's just a one time thing, it's if you might study to do it that once, but then you forget the importance and the ritual if there was a day each year where we all just rolled dice and generated entropy and created some sort of thing out of it, it could be valuable.
932
01:07:49.130 -->
01:07:50.089
Fascinating.
933
01:07:50.089 --> 01:07:57.935
Let me say one more thing too about like what I what I'm learning, I think about how I want my keys to be set up going forward.
934
01:07:58.494 --> 01:07:59.375
So I
935
01:07:59.775 --> 01:08:02.255
have a hard time now relying on single sick.
936
01:08:02.734 --> 01:08:06.255
Yeah, I don't know about you. But like, I just have a hard time now.
937
01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:09.040
That's I don't know that.
938
01:08:10.560 --> 01:08:14.960
Mean, I think mileage varies. And if you're fucking tied got tiger blood, I think,
939
01:08:15.200 --> 01:08:24.135
know, go for it, right? I don't know that I got the tiger blood for single sig anymore. However, one thing I'll tell you one thing I can't accept. I cannot accept
940
01:08:25.095 --> 01:08:27.015
a state in Bitcoin, where
941
01:08:28.135 --> 01:08:35.415
we don't have the ability to take our key, you know, to put your seed in your head and go over a border. I think that's one of the
942
01:08:35.735 --> 01:08:43.530
top one or two most important properties of Bitcoin. And I'm not willing to give that up. And I was thinking really, I was really thinking through this hard.
943
01:08:44.090 --> 01:08:46.409
And I've come to the conclusion possibly,
944
01:08:46.730 --> 01:08:47.210
that
945
01:08:47.770 --> 01:08:54.574
the way to go is to generate again, generate your own single SID key with dice rolls, memorize
946
01:08:55.295 --> 01:08:59.695
it, but don't put any funds in it until you have to. Yeah, have one ready to go.
947
01:09:00.175 --> 01:09:13.090
And have that one to go and have that one be in your mind. So even if somebody reads your mind, they can't even steal your Bitcoin. Right? If they That's right. And that's what so, like, you know, the other thing I had done, I had memorized my seeds before.
948
01:09:13.250 --> 01:09:13.890
Uh-huh.
949
01:09:14.130 --> 01:09:18.805
And I was worried that, like, that was a stupid and dangerous thing to do.
950
01:09:19.285 --> 01:09:27.285
Telepathy is common, they're gonna be able to read your brain, no doubt. I'm just saying I'm a little relieved I can talk about this now. Because it's not
951
01:09:28.085 --> 01:09:30.260
a thing anymore. Yeah. But
952
01:09:30.420 --> 01:09:41.860
I had, like, I think you memorize a seed that's got no funds on it. I think that's now that's the up your escape hatch. That's your escape hatch. And it's perfectly safe. It's a perfectly safe thing to do. Yep.
953
01:09:42.500 --> 01:09:45.060
Yep. So like, I think we're gonna get a little better.
954
01:09:45.915 --> 01:09:50.074
I think in Bitcoin, we get better every time we go through one of these, right? Absolutely.
955
01:09:50.715 --> 01:09:51.355
Absolutely.
956
01:09:52.155 --> 01:09:59.515
Be a hard grader on yourself. That's but you know, I would just I would recommend that to people, whatever you think you did be a hard grader.
957
01:10:00.429 --> 01:10:01.389
Yeah.
958
01:10:01.630 --> 01:10:02.269
Yeah.
959
01:10:02.750 --> 01:10:07.789
Because I mean, if we're not going to take responsibility for our own money, then who is right? So you gotta
960
01:10:08.750 --> 01:10:10.590
take a hard look in the mirror.
961
01:10:12.190 --> 01:10:14.670
I'm curious, tell me about Bitcoin news.
962
01:10:15.375 --> 01:10:19.215
I know nothing about it other than I see it on Twitter. What is it
963
01:10:19.535 --> 01:10:20.735
to own an
964
01:10:21.135 --> 01:10:21.935
online
965
01:10:22.255 --> 01:10:23.534
news site like that?
966
01:10:24.175 --> 01:10:25.375
So
967
01:10:25.375 --> 01:10:29.295
we've got the website, we got the Twitter, we got the newsletter and the YouTube.
968
01:10:29.740 --> 01:10:30.700
We're
969
01:10:30.700 --> 01:10:32.300
a media company. And
970
01:10:33.500 --> 01:10:44.380
I took over in 'twenty three. I joined on as the video guy, started doing Twitter, and then bought out the guy who owned it at the time at the end of 'twenty three. And I've been running it with myself and my partner ever since.
971
01:10:45.225 --> 01:10:47.465
We've got a team of about nine
972
01:10:47.784 --> 01:10:49.145
or 10 freelancers
973
01:10:49.145 --> 01:10:51.784
around the world that help us, whether it's
974
01:10:52.025 --> 01:10:52.824
editors,
975
01:10:53.225 --> 01:10:54.025
writers,
976
01:10:54.105 --> 01:10:56.344
Twitter helps, thumbnail artists.
977
01:10:56.824 --> 01:10:57.225
And
978
01:10:57.650 --> 01:11:02.130
I mean, lot of it is just me being terminally online and
979
01:11:02.929 --> 01:11:08.929
people in my immediate vicinity getting tired of me hearing about Bitcoin. So I just started putting out into the world and
980
01:11:09.905 --> 01:11:11.745
yeah. I mean, we got some traction
981
01:11:12.225 --> 01:11:24.545
in the early days on Twitter. And now we're branching off into some other media, particularly the the YouTube, putting out two podcasts a week and a livestream and just really trying to grow that over there. But it's
982
01:11:25.770 --> 01:11:33.289
it's fun. I mean, I have a background in media. I've been editing videos since I was in eighth grade, had a YouTube channel when I lived out in China,
983
01:11:33.530 --> 01:11:36.969
and was making comedy videos out there for three or four years,
984
01:11:37.474 --> 01:11:41.234
came back to New York, worked in advertising and marketing and
985
01:11:41.474 --> 01:11:45.954
was at Barstool Sports, if you've ever heard of it right before working at
986
01:11:46.675 --> 01:11:47.715
Bitcoin News.
987
01:11:48.434 --> 01:11:50.755
So stand up? You were you into comedy?
988
01:11:51.440 --> 01:12:01.120
I did. I took improv classes upright citizens brigade. I graduated class one and then dropped out of class two because I was just not in the right state of mind to be trying to do improv weekly
989
01:12:01.120 --> 01:12:04.239
basis with some random weirdos in New York City.
990
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:09.284
But I yeah, I mean, I I've
liked to perform since I was a kid. I've had a band
991
01:12:09.765 --> 01:12:12.085
throughout my teens into early twenties.
992
01:12:12.565 --> 01:12:18.005
And, yeah, now this is my outlet. Right? I think it's shitty
993
01:12:18.005 --> 01:12:23.150
and funny, maybe. But stand ups and improvs, you know, are like mortal enemies.
994
01:12:23.790 --> 01:12:24.349
Yeah,
995
01:12:24.989 --> 01:12:28.030
Now, stand ups know this, but improv people don't know this.
996
01:12:29.790 --> 01:12:30.829
But it's like,
997
01:12:31.310 --> 01:12:43.245
like, the improv guys that go up there and everyone's like, Oh, you're so good. Yeah, you did so good. Everybody's so good. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. You know, and it's just, it's so brutal to be stand up. Yeah.
998
01:12:43.645 --> 01:12:45.965
I have a story
999
01:12:46.205 --> 01:12:47.325
on this channel
1000
01:12:48.090 --> 01:12:55.849
called and it's the fourth episode of fun. It's called the fundamentals of stand up. And it's a story about my first time going to New York and just getting brutalized,
1001
01:12:55.929 --> 01:12:57.610
just absolutely brutalized.
1002
01:12:59.210 --> 01:13:03.815
It sucks. I do think the stand up is more logical and mathematician
1003
01:13:03.815 --> 01:13:13.494
like, you're taking one piece one and then just whittling it down until you have every breath and syllable correct to get that crowd on the edge of their seat. It's very different than improv. Yeah, yeah.
1004
01:13:14.640 --> 01:13:16.960
It's just funny how different it is.
1005
01:13:18.480 --> 01:13:23.920
Was gonna say that was a little sidetrack, but how do you deal? So how do you approach pleb slop?
1006
01:13:25.840 --> 01:13:26.400
I mean,
1007
01:13:27.724 --> 01:13:33.644
it's been hard to see certain characters in this space really embrace it and then get,
1008
01:13:33.965 --> 01:13:41.164
like, validated for it, like the the algorithm rewarding it. I think that was a huge change in the algorithm in 2025
1009
01:13:41.164 --> 01:13:41.724
where
1010
01:13:43.380 --> 01:13:45.380
you saw these all caps
1011
01:13:46.100 --> 01:13:48.099
accounts really just take off.
1012
01:13:49.780 --> 01:13:52.979
The You don't know who they are. Yeah. I mean, basics. Yeah.
1013
01:13:53.940 --> 01:13:54.499
And
1014
01:13:55.140 --> 01:13:57.780
I mean, I've changed my posting style a little bit.
1015
01:13:58.100 --> 01:14:14.065
Mean, before, was all you always started with new or just in all caps. Right? And now instead of I dropped that and I just put the headline on all caps, and then I usually have multiple in my post, I don't just put, like, 240 characters. I put multiple paragraphs trying to explain something. So if somebody actually clicks on it, they're gonna get their background information
1016
01:14:14.320 --> 01:14:25.040
and not some vague statement that says Russia has their own clarity act. Okay. Like, what the hell does that mean, and how does that help me at all? No. Like, explain the fact that this means that commercial
1017
01:14:25.520 --> 01:14:36.105
companies can accept Bitcoin for international transactions, but the average person can buy more than $2,000 worth of Bitcoin a year. Those fine details matter. That's what I tried to provide to my audience. Yeah.
1018
01:14:36.505 --> 01:14:37.705
It's interesting.
1019
01:14:38.265 --> 01:14:44.399
I feel like it's a very simple vector. When I think about Pilebslop, I think there's one very simple vector, which is that like,
1020
01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:47.599
everything is either some indication
1021
01:14:47.599 --> 01:14:49.919
that we are mooning right now.
1022
01:14:51.039 --> 01:14:57.765
And that's pretty much it. That's the whole dimension. Yeah, the whole dimension of it, right? Everything means we're mooning right now.
1023
01:15:00.085 --> 01:15:02.085
I don't know, I find that that's Or kind
1024
01:15:03.365 --> 01:15:13.340
the common enemy says something stupid or easy to dunk on, like Jim Kramer or Peter Schiff or Jamie Dimon, if they come out against
1025
01:15:13.660 --> 01:15:16.780
Bitcoin, it's very easy. And that means they're bending the knee.
1026
01:15:17.900 --> 01:15:18.460
The two
1027
01:15:19.260 --> 01:15:23.260
vectors, right? It's either we're going to a gazillion,
1028
01:15:23.260 --> 01:15:24.940
we're going to a trillion dollars overnight,
1029
01:15:25.954 --> 01:15:29.554
or some villain is bending the knee. Yeah.
1030
01:15:30.755 --> 01:15:34.034
Yeah. And I mean, it's been interesting, like
1031
01:15:34.755 --> 01:15:44.980
a character like Michael Saylor, right? He definitely gets a lot of attention. So you as a site like mine or a page on X like ours, like, you have to follow his moves.
1032
01:15:45.460 --> 01:15:50.820
Do I think that he's the best thing for Bitcoin right now? No. But I still document
1033
01:15:50.900 --> 01:15:51.699
Sailor
1034
01:15:51.860 --> 01:15:57.864
in like, if he's on Diary of a CEO, the world's second largest podcast, we are gonna say something about that because
1035
01:15:58.185 --> 01:16:02.985
a lot of people do find that interesting and I don't think it's detrimental for it to be sharing that kind of information.
1036
01:16:03.225 --> 01:16:11.090
But I also do like our I mean, just to be frank, like our impressions are lower right now than they were in years in the past.
1037
01:16:11.570 --> 01:16:20.210
And but during this whole cold card saga, like, I was online twenty four seven, I think, posting the most informant like, relevant, important information,
1038
01:16:20.370 --> 01:16:21.410
and the impressions
1039
01:16:21.895 --> 01:16:26.695
were there. They returned. Like, the the community what did focus on the signal
1040
01:16:26.935 --> 01:16:33.815
rather than another Michael Sailor Moon video, you know? So I think it is important to to still be online and do these things.
1041
01:16:34.980 --> 01:16:36.500
So you were somebody that people
1042
01:16:37.380 --> 01:16:40.099
I I can imagine a lot of these accounts,
1043
01:16:40.100 --> 01:16:43.139
no one's going to them to try to figure out what's
1044
01:16:43.220 --> 01:17:02.485
Oh, wait, need actual news right now. We need to know what's actually going on. Yeah, I think we did that. I will stand up and say, I think I actually did a service for this community this last week is as much as people might look down on Twitter posting, I think I actually did provide something. I think it's a tough game. And I don't think you need to go through purity tests of pleb slopper,
1045
01:17:02.725 --> 01:17:10.060
like that. I do think you seem to be aware. I think think that's all you need to do is be aware of it. You know, you have to compete also,
1046
01:17:10.300 --> 01:17:11.420
you have to be relevant.
1047
01:17:11.740 --> 01:17:12.380
Yeah.
1048
01:17:12.940 --> 01:17:14.620
Most people don't understand.
1049
01:17:14.700 --> 01:17:15.980
They don't understand that.
1050
01:17:16.220 --> 01:17:17.260
But yeah,
1051
01:17:17.900 --> 01:17:21.815
know, and I think we're all trying to figure this out. I think you coming on with
1052
01:17:22.535 --> 01:17:23.335
your hat,
1053
01:17:23.575 --> 01:17:26.614
and just indicating that you're aware means a lot.
1054
01:17:27.255 --> 01:17:27.895
Yeah,
1055
01:17:28.295 --> 01:17:32.855
you gotta have fun with it. If you're not on the team that's having fun, then what are you doing? Like, why even do it at all?
1056
01:17:35.350 --> 01:17:41.349
So I started having fun for the first time, like a long time, I finally started having fun this morning because I found
1057
01:17:42.790 --> 01:17:46.949
a concept that I really liked, and I'm running with it. And it is the
1058
01:17:47.430 --> 01:17:48.150
observation.
1059
01:17:48.495 --> 01:17:51.375
I basically tweeted that said, just found out that
1060
01:17:51.855 --> 01:17:53.375
OpReturn is Jewish.
1061
01:17:55.535 --> 01:17:59.695
There's a lot of Jewish conspiracies coming out this last week, dude. Yeah.
1062
01:18:00.095 --> 01:18:08.520
Has a life Yeah, of because I ended up on one of those Schindler's List that somebody came up with, you know, like Oh, really? Where they just name a bunch of accounts and all that. And
1063
01:18:08.840 --> 01:18:14.600
only half of them are Jewish, but they're like, no, that guy's Jewish. Like Jonathan Beers, they said something like questionably Jewish.
1064
01:18:15.335 --> 01:18:18.055
You know, I would like to be questionably Jewish.
1065
01:18:19.255 --> 01:18:22.614
You got to change your name to John Stewart, then you'll then you'll be questionably Jewish.
1066
01:18:23.015 --> 01:18:28.215
I thought it was funny. I thought the idea of Op return, it kind of reminded me that Family Guy episode where
1067
01:18:28.730 --> 01:18:30.010
Peter decided
1068
01:18:30.090 --> 01:18:34.410
that he was Jewish and he goes to synagogue and he finds out like Optimus Prime is Jewish.
1069
01:18:34.570 --> 01:18:36.890
Optimus Prime rolls in with like his freaking
1070
01:18:37.290 --> 01:18:39.290
with, you know, the whole thing.
1071
01:18:39.610 --> 01:18:39.850
What
1072
01:18:40.824 --> 01:18:47.465
And like a lot, I guess a lot of what I found, like a lot of the real toxic shit I found around this fork happens to be there.
1073
01:18:47.784 --> 01:18:48.584
And
1074
01:18:48.985 --> 01:18:51.064
I finally started having fun with
1075
01:18:51.224 --> 01:18:56.199
just because I noticed on both sides were responding to it. Yeah. It's
1076
01:18:56.199 --> 01:18:59.880
like I hadn't had fun with this in a long time. And I think it is important.
1077
01:19:00.360 --> 01:19:01.880
Totally. I mean,
1078
01:19:03.000 --> 01:19:05.880
it's part of building a community, building a culture,
1079
01:19:06.040 --> 01:19:07.239
and it's
1080
01:19:07.800 --> 01:19:08.840
memes, jokes,
1081
01:19:09.395 --> 01:19:18.755
inside jokes. They're all and and that's why I love the Bugle so much. That's why I'm I'm rocking their hat. You know? The Yep. The fact that the the work that they put in for the
1082
01:19:19.074 --> 01:19:29.870
little bit of notoriety that they get out of it is just I think it's commendable. So many people hate them too. You know? And I think they do get a rise out of that. That's part of the enjoyment for them. But at the same time, they have
1083
01:19:30.750 --> 01:19:34.829
they provide a service as well. They are part of the Bitcoin immune system, and
1084
01:19:36.030 --> 01:19:41.364
I get a lot of laughs out of it. You know, some it's like, how do when we
1085
01:19:41.685 --> 01:19:44.085
when we do onboard people, right?
1086
01:19:44.485 --> 01:19:46.724
And certain memes need to be retired.
1087
01:19:47.285 --> 01:19:48.325
How do you do it?
1088
01:19:50.060 --> 01:19:56.940
There's no way to force retire a meme. It's just it's all memetic energy. It's all You all disagree with that. Right?
1089
01:19:57.820 --> 01:20:04.780
So that's really to me, that's always what they've been for the most part is like, when a meme is ready to go, like meme death.
1090
01:20:05.575 --> 01:20:08.534
Okay, they can put the nail in the coffin.
1091
01:20:09.255 --> 01:20:10.614
Basically, like, especially
1092
01:20:12.215 --> 01:20:18.455
rod in this area, where he'll just meme it into the ground. It's like, that's it. We're just we're
1093
01:20:18.455 --> 01:20:20.215
bearing this by overuse
1094
01:20:20.430 --> 01:20:21.630
into the ground.
1095
01:20:22.270 --> 01:20:24.670
And I've always thought that was the most,
1096
01:20:25.230 --> 01:20:30.350
honestly, the most genius and beneficial thing that they do. And they're both just solid
1097
01:20:30.510 --> 01:20:34.910
people like I, it's we're lucky that they're solid people.
1098
01:20:34.990 --> 01:20:36.304
Yeah. Yeah.
1099
01:20:37.264 --> 01:20:40.704
This could have gone very differently with their emergence.
1100
01:20:41.185 --> 01:20:45.985
Yeah. And I mean, it's funny is because when I I've been doing Bitcoin news since 2023,
1101
01:20:45.985 --> 01:20:48.705
and they came really on my radar, I guess, in '24
1102
01:20:48.890 --> 01:20:54.409
and more in '25. But, like, you I was always a little worried. Like, are they gonna just start ripping on us constantly?
1103
01:20:55.370 --> 01:21:02.124
It never happened. And eventually, they we started talking, they've come on my show and yada yada yada. But, yeah,
1104
01:21:03.005 --> 01:21:09.324
I mean, I guess at the end of the day, had to stand by what I was actually doing. It's like, no, I'm not creating unadulterated plebslop. I'm actually
1105
01:21:09.565 --> 01:21:10.844
reporting. I'm
1106
01:21:11.324 --> 01:21:12.525
sharing news. Right?
1107
01:21:12.925 --> 01:21:15.804
Yeah. Well, not many people volunteer themselves to be checked
1108
01:21:16.130 --> 01:21:16.769
by
1109
01:21:17.170 --> 01:21:19.570
by the bugle. Yeah. So good on you.
1110
01:21:20.690 --> 01:21:21.570
I mean Right?
1111
01:21:22.849 --> 01:21:25.889
Yeah. I mean, I I think in Bitcoin,
1112
01:21:25.889 --> 01:21:26.369
you
1113
01:21:26.929 --> 01:21:37.185
you gravitate towards some people, you know, in any culture, there's there's groups, there's clicks, and you quickly find out who who you resonate with and who you don't. And
1114
01:21:38.305 --> 01:21:39.425
I guess I'm,
1115
01:21:39.745 --> 01:21:45.585
I like those guys. Yeah. It's the weirdest thing in the world that a 50 year old guy like me managed to just
1116
01:21:46.230 --> 01:21:54.389
find them so like in person so fast. These were some of the first people I met when I got into the space. It's just I
1117
01:21:54.390 --> 01:21:57.510
believe in God for shit like this. Like, you can't even explain it. Yeah.
1118
01:21:59.094 --> 01:22:03.334
Energy. Everything's energy. And I feel like just been building
1119
01:22:04.375 --> 01:22:05.735
on their energy.
1120
01:22:05.815 --> 01:22:06.294
And
1121
01:22:06.695 --> 01:22:08.934
in some ways, I feel like we're all building
1122
01:22:09.255 --> 01:22:09.815
for each other.
1123
01:22:11.700 --> 01:22:15.140
We're all plowing the fields here and creating the runway.
1124
01:22:15.380 --> 01:22:17.220
We're all doing our little part.
1125
01:22:17.780 --> 01:22:18.180
Yeah.
1126
01:22:19.620 --> 01:22:23.780
Mean, if I can contribute to this movement, because I 2008,
1127
01:22:23.780 --> 01:22:30.175
2009, I was scared shitless. I And was listening to Peter Schiff and I thought that we had to get gold and silver and
1128
01:22:30.655 --> 01:22:33.294
buy a farm, right? Like that was the only way out.
1129
01:22:33.695 --> 01:22:35.775
Bitcoin gives you some hope that
1130
01:22:36.335 --> 01:22:40.895
there might be a different alternative. And if you can contribute to that, it makes you feel good.
1131
01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:49.320
And it's just, you know, it's going to take a long time and you got to have your boys that you have
fun with along the way. Yeah.
1132
01:22:50.520 --> 01:22:53.720
Bip one Tenet, they're not having fun, dude. They're not having fun.
1133
01:22:54.355 --> 01:22:56.275
So serious. They're like,
1134
01:22:56.835 --> 01:23:03.955
not just serious, but like dark, all the talking That's what I'm saying. It's like, this is the sky's falling. That's the thing
1135
01:23:04.355 --> 01:23:05.074
that
1136
01:23:07.160 --> 01:23:11.719
again, I hate talking about it. I'll just say I was I'm old enough to remember when
1137
01:23:12.360 --> 01:23:16.680
Bitcoin was the honey badger and resilient and that it required
1138
01:23:16.680 --> 01:23:19.640
free markets and people to act permissionlessly
1139
01:23:19.640 --> 01:23:20.840
to effectuate.
1140
01:23:22.635 --> 01:23:32.875
I remember when a small minority people couldn't take over the network without any other agreements. That's all. It's like, I mean, if you feel like that's necessary,
1141
01:23:32.955 --> 01:23:36.715
then you're pretty much going to be a doomer. If you feel like it's necessary for
1142
01:23:37.440 --> 01:23:41.679
Bitcoin tend to succeed for Bitcoin to work, then you are kind of a doomer.
1143
01:23:42.719 --> 01:23:43.280
And,
1144
01:23:43.680 --> 01:23:47.920
you know, look, we'll be here. So when you're ready to when you're when,
1145
01:23:48.080 --> 01:23:50.344
dude, I've made my mistakes. So many.
1146
01:23:50.665 --> 01:23:53.704
We can get to talk about this. Maybe next time I've made so many mistakes.
1147
01:23:54.265 --> 01:23:58.824
And I didn't die. You guys know, you guys are gonna be fine. You guys will be okay.
1148
01:23:59.465 --> 01:24:00.824
Okay, it'll be okay.
1149
01:24:01.680 --> 01:24:05.280
And I mean, one thing I just got to say to
1150
01:24:05.520 --> 01:24:08.640
finish the BIP one hundred debate is just like physiognomy check.
1151
01:24:09.760 --> 01:24:12.640
Look at your leaders, just physically look at your leaders.
1152
01:24:15.995 --> 01:24:25.835
I'll leave it at I more of just look at how they behave. Yeah, but it's all part of it. The way you look, it impacts how you behave. The way you behave impacts the way you look. All these things are connected.
1153
01:24:27.510 --> 01:24:32.709
You're sitting there in the dark and you look like you're about to bring a grenade to a wedding, then
1154
01:24:34.389 --> 01:24:35.989
got to question some things here.
1155
01:24:36.710 --> 01:24:41.989
I remember I was really into paleo shit in the prior decade.
1156
01:24:42.070 --> 01:24:51.304
And when the ever like vegans came up, it was like, people would say, Well, look, you know, they at least really care, they care about their food just as much as we do.
1157
01:24:51.705 --> 01:24:55.145
And that was like the way they describe them. And I feel like it's kind of similar here.
1158
01:24:55.890 --> 01:25:10.610
They care. It's like they care a lot about Bitcoin. I'll say that, right? I mean, they all do. And the one thing I'll say that
us, I think one good thing did come out of this movement. Honestly, this is, I think one good thing that came out of this is that if Bitcoin Core ever
1159
01:25:11.125 --> 01:25:15.285
is even thinking about doing anything that they know is going to damage the network,
1160
01:25:15.605 --> 01:25:17.445
they know they're going to get about 1000x
1161
01:25:17.445 --> 01:25:19.045
what they got here. Yeah.
1162
01:25:19.285 --> 01:25:23.365
And, okay, you know, and I thank you for your service. But it is,
1163
01:25:24.060 --> 01:25:31.180
when you say look at these guys, a lot of these guys were not looking like this before this incident before this episode.
1164
01:25:31.180 --> 01:25:35.260
So I think like a lot of these a lot of guys have gotten just
1165
01:25:35.660 --> 01:25:36.300
the
1166
01:25:36.620 --> 01:25:37.100
fear,
1167
01:25:37.755 --> 01:25:39.195
the sky is falling.
1168
01:25:39.595 --> 01:25:45.755
Exactly what I'm talking about. The losing, frankly, is just kind of making them deep. Paranoia,
1169
01:25:46.155 --> 01:25:57.969
looking at everyone as an enemy. It's making them a worse person in a certain And I actually feel badly about it. I do feel badly about it for a lot of these people, not all of them, but for a lot of them, do.
1170
01:26:00.370 --> 01:26:06.450
Look, it's going to be over fairly soon. And anyone who wants to come back and build on Bitcoin
1171
01:26:07.655 --> 01:26:12.695
account, everyone can be accountable and find their way back into a community.
1172
01:26:13.015 --> 01:26:13.655
Yeah,
1173
01:26:13.895 --> 01:26:16.455
just look at Mars. Just look at Mars Spitzbars.
1174
01:26:16.535 --> 01:26:17.815
Fuck yeah, dude. What
1175
01:26:18.215 --> 01:26:19.975
a redemption. What a redemption arc.
1176
01:26:20.719 --> 01:26:25.679
I don't really know much of his downfall, to be honest, but I do think the world of him.
1177
01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:29.519
Oh, well, yeah, I mean, he's redeemed himself fully, but he was
1178
01:26:31.360 --> 01:26:34.559
in a dark paranoid place, dude. Like,
1179
01:26:35.280 --> 01:26:36.159
he made some pretty,
1180
01:26:37.335 --> 01:26:39.255
pretty hardcore
1181
01:26:39.255 --> 01:26:43.655
crash out videos calling out people saying crazy conspiracy theories.
1182
01:26:43.895 --> 01:26:44.454
But
1183
01:26:44.775 --> 01:26:48.855
he's turned himself around and he's found his comedic genius and
1184
01:26:49.015 --> 01:26:50.455
he's being recognized for it.
1185
01:26:51.590 --> 01:26:52.550
He's the man.
1186
01:26:53.429 --> 01:26:55.269
One of the best podcast episodes
1187
01:26:55.270 --> 01:26:56.550
that exists,
1188
01:26:56.630 --> 01:26:59.590
you'd have to be a bugle subscriber for this one.
1189
01:27:00.070 --> 01:27:01.030
But when
1190
01:27:02.230 --> 01:27:08.284
Rod basically interviews Mars, and they go through a bench, they basically do an hour and a half on essentially group chat politics.
1191
01:27:09.565 --> 01:27:10.684
And how to get
1192
01:27:11.485 --> 01:27:11.965
the
1193
01:27:13.005 --> 01:27:14.204
most out of a group chat.
1194
01:27:15.245 --> 01:27:15.724
Genius.
1195
01:27:16.525 --> 01:27:18.045
And you see this guy, you see it.
1196
01:27:19.030 --> 01:27:23.909
It's psycho he understands human psychology. Right? And that's where the humor comes from, everything.
1197
01:27:24.389 --> 01:27:32.165
But my my dream podcast right now is if I can get British Huddl and Mars box Spitzbars on the same same show. And
1198
01:27:32.165 --> 01:27:38.724
both audiences from would hate it, you know, but I would just have a fun time. Get that done conducting that interview.
1199
01:27:39.445 --> 01:27:44.325
But yeah, man, I'm sorry, I gotta run. Yeah, no, this is good. I never asked you what your time.
1200
01:27:45.320 --> 01:27:49.079
But this is a good place. Good place to put it, man. Anything you want to
1201
01:27:50.520 --> 01:27:53.719
leave my fraction of an audience of yours with?
1202
01:27:55.160 --> 01:27:57.000
No, I just want to say
1203
01:27:57.240 --> 01:28:08.784
thank you to anyone who helped out in the last week. A lot of people stepped up, even if you just texted friends and family and made sure everybody who had a cold card was okay. You did your part. And
1204
01:28:10.784 --> 01:28:19.940
yeah, it felt good. It was like that was the best feeling in terms of community that I've gotten from this space in in a while. It's been a long time from the 2021,
1205
01:28:19.940 --> 01:28:20.500
like,
1206
01:28:20.740 --> 01:28:27.380
rah rah, we're all in this together vibe. And finally, it took a tragedy, but sometimes that's what humans need. So
1207
01:28:29.034 --> 01:28:30.154
so we're at.
1208
01:28:30.554 --> 01:28:32.394
That's where we're at. Awesome.
1209
01:28:32.394 --> 01:28:35.274
Thanks, bud. Cheers. We'll do it again. Absolutely.