Episode 76 Thaddeus Ó Buachalla, Author, Poet & Musician ၏ စာသားမှတ်တမ်းအပြည့်အစုံ

have it there. 86 00:03:38,541 --> 00:03:39,708 But I had to find it myself. 87 00:03:40,208 --> 00:03:42,625 I would have assumed actually that you came, 88 00:03:42,958 --> 00:03:45,083 that your whole family spoke Irish, 89 00:03:45,291 --> 00:03:46,375 that you were brought up with it. 90 00:03:46,416 --> 00:03:47,958 So I'm kind of surprised to hear that. 91 00:03:48,583 --> 00:03:50,250 And that wasn't the case, that you almost-- 92 00:03:50,500 --> 00:03:50,708 No. 93 00:03:50,875 --> 00:03:52,333 It was a choice that you made. 94 00:03:52,333 --> 00:03:52,750 So it was such-- 95 00:03:53,583 --> 00:03:54,125 It was. 96 00:03:54,125 --> 00:03:54,791 It was a choice. 97 00:03:54,791 --> 00:03:56,500 I found the best choices I've ever made. 98 00:03:56,500 --> 00:03:58,458 Really, it's fantastic. 99 00:03:58,791 --> 00:04:01,166 I think it does reflect the kind of journey 100 00:04:01,166 --> 00:04:03,791 that the country is on, really, that we're 101 00:04:03,791 --> 00:04:06,541 accepting that Irish is there for all of us, 102 00:04:06,541 --> 00:04:08,125 that we can all speak it. 103 00:04:08,125 --> 00:04:10,250 And you just need to make the choice to say, right, 104 00:04:10,250 --> 00:04:11,583 I'm going to do it. 105 00:04:11,958 --> 00:04:14,541 And you can go as far as you want with it. 106 00:04:14,541 --> 00:04:15,625 And there was much-- 107 00:04:15,666 --> 00:04:16,625 It is changing. 108 00:04:16,625 --> 00:04:18,125 Ireland is changing in that respect. 109 00:04:18,125 --> 00:04:18,625 Absolutely, yeah. 110 00:04:19,250 --> 00:04:21,416 And it's really-- you can do it. 111 00:04:21,916 --> 00:04:23,708 It's not this closed door. 112 00:04:24,458 --> 00:04:26,458 You can choose to just open it and-- 113 00:04:26,458 --> 00:04:26,666 Yeah. 114 00:04:27,291 --> 00:04:29,250 So you really did open the door. 115 00:04:29,250 --> 00:04:31,875 You hold a PhD in Modern Irish from UCC. 116 00:04:32,333 --> 00:04:34,666 How did your time, I suppose, studying 117 00:04:34,791 --> 00:04:38,166 shape your creative voice as both a writer and musician? 118 00:04:39,625 --> 00:04:42,208 Well, it had an enormous effect, really. 119 00:04:42,791 --> 00:04:46,000 I mean, UCC really gave me so much. 120 00:04:46,208 --> 00:04:49,291 It was just such an amazing place, an amazing experience. 121 00:04:49,750 --> 00:04:53,375 Maybe not so much as a musician, because when I went to UCC, 122 00:04:53,375 --> 00:04:56,916 I went there specifically for literature, for language. 123 00:04:57,208 --> 00:05:00,458 So my degree course was in English and Irish and English. 124 00:05:01,500 --> 00:05:04,125 So it was all literature, really, that I was studying. 125 00:05:04,708 --> 00:05:06,416 And in first year of my arts degree, 126 00:05:06,416 --> 00:05:07,875 I had done music as well. 127 00:05:08,458 --> 00:05:11,875 I took classes in Sean Nos with Eibhlish Ni Houlabhain, 128 00:05:12,375 --> 00:05:13,333 which was great. 129 00:05:13,833 --> 00:05:17,375 But mostly, UCC for me was for literature. 130 00:05:18,625 --> 00:05:22,291 And I suppose I intentionally went to UCC to become a writer. 131 00:05:23,625 --> 00:05:26,250 I suppose I had been writing things since I was very young, 132 00:05:26,916 --> 00:05:29,750 in English, but kind of unsuccessfully, really. 133 00:05:31,375 --> 00:05:35,083 But I suppose not many people see academia as a route 134 00:05:35,750 --> 00:05:36,833 to creativity. 135 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,833 But it really is, and it really was for me. 136 00:05:39,875 --> 00:05:43,750 And I wanted to write, and I wanted to write in Irish. 137 00:05:44,041 --> 00:05:45,541 It really gave me that. 138 00:05:46,125 --> 00:05:48,708 So I studied Irish and English for the degree. 139 00:05:49,666 --> 00:05:51,833 And with the Irish, I was able to get the wealth 140 00:05:51,833 --> 00:05:54,958 and the diversity of Irish literature, and prose, 141 00:05:55,291 --> 00:05:55,833 and poetry. 142 00:05:57,166 --> 00:05:58,291 It really kind of-- 143 00:05:58,291 --> 00:06:00,750 I got so much wisdom from that, really, 144 00:06:00,750 --> 00:06:04,750 and a historical perspective of Irish literature. 145 00:06:05,250 --> 00:06:07,208 And that's such incredible lecturers 146 00:06:07,625 --> 00:06:08,833 in the Department of Modern Irish. 147 00:06:09,250 --> 00:06:10,583 I remember Alan Titley was there. 148 00:06:10,833 --> 00:06:12,500 He was head of the department when I was there, 149 00:06:12,666 --> 00:06:14,541 and an amazing novelist himself. 150 00:06:15,458 --> 00:06:18,708 Having people like that just there, teaching you, 151 00:06:18,708 --> 00:06:20,791 and it was incredible. 152 00:06:21,708 --> 00:06:24,750 And then with the English, I studied a lot of great literature 153 00:06:24,750 --> 00:06:28,416 as well, but also literary theory and principles 154 00:06:28,750 --> 00:06:29,750 of literary criticism. 155 00:06:30,541 --> 00:06:32,541 And I learned how to analyse literature. 156 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:35,666 I suppose it was a much more philosophical perspective. 157 00:06:36,083 --> 00:06:40,041 And I became really interested in postmodern literature. 158 00:06:40,708 --> 00:06:42,416 Postmodernism is kind of-- 159 00:06:42,625 --> 00:06:45,000 it actually kind of has an awareness of itself, 160 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,958 and an awareness of its place within the world, 161 00:06:47,250 --> 00:06:48,041 within greater society. 162 00:06:48,375 --> 00:06:49,250 It kind of reflects that. 163 00:06:50,500 --> 00:06:53,000 And so then I decided then that I 164 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,375 wanted to do a PhD on the postmodern novel 165 00:06:57,541 --> 00:06:58,250 in Irish literature. 166 00:06:58,833 --> 00:07:01,958 And I was very lucky to do that with Dr. Padraig Riggs. 167 00:07:02,916 --> 00:07:04,583 What I was doing, really, I wanted 168 00:07:04,750 --> 00:07:07,041 to write postmodern fiction in Irish. 169 00:07:07,750 --> 00:07:09,875 I

wanted to figure out how to do that. 170 00:07:10,583 --> 00:07:13,208 And there is no textbook on how to do that. 171 00:07:13,416 --> 00:07:14,791 So I decided I'd write it. 172 00:07:14,791 --> 00:07:16,375 That was my PhD thesis. 173 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,500 The PhD was figuring out how do I do this. 174 00:07:19,791 --> 00:07:22,250 And EL is a postmodern novel. 175 00:07:22,833 --> 00:07:25,666 So I was figuring out how do you write a postmodern novel. 176 00:07:25,666 --> 00:07:28,666 So I wrote a textbook on how to do it. 177 00:07:29,166 --> 00:07:30,416 And then I wrote it. 178 00:07:30,416 --> 00:07:33,333 So it directly influenced me. 179 00:07:33,583 --> 00:07:36,166 It taught me-- but that's why I went to UCC. 180 00:07:36,291 --> 00:07:37,916 I went to learn how to become a writer 181 00:07:38,166 --> 00:07:39,708 and how to become an Irish language writer. 182 00:07:40,458 --> 00:07:41,583 And it really gave to me. 183 00:07:41,583 --> 00:07:43,791 At UCC, it's just an amazing place. 184 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,416 It kind of created everything that I have really as a writer. 185 00:07:47,416 --> 00:07:48,666 And I would give me the basis. 186 00:07:49,625 --> 00:07:51,333 And the guidance that I got from lecture 187 00:07:51,333 --> 00:07:53,500 was there and the people that are there was just immense. 188 00:07:54,541 --> 00:07:55,208 So much amazing. 189 00:07:55,875 --> 00:07:58,125 People think postmodernism in Irish literature. 190 00:07:58,625 --> 00:08:00,791 People are going, is there such a thing? 191 00:08:00,791 --> 00:08:02,083 And is it peg postmodern? 192 00:08:02,375 --> 00:08:02,583 Yeah. 193 00:08:02,791 --> 00:08:03,958 It isn't, by the way. 194 00:08:04,916 --> 00:08:07,500 But really, postmodernism is a kind of-- 195 00:08:08,416 --> 00:08:10,333 I actually think that the Irish invented 196 00:08:10,750 --> 00:08:12,250 literary postmodernism. 197 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:17,041 You see, the PhD thesis, I had it published later as a book. 198 00:08:18,125 --> 00:08:22,291 And I kind of describe it in a way that-- 199 00:08:23,958 --> 00:08:26,375 they say the first postmodern novel was either 200 00:08:26,791 --> 00:08:29,958 "Finnegan's Wake" by James Joyce or "A Swim to Birds" 201 00:08:30,166 --> 00:08:30,791 by Flan O'Brien. 202 00:08:31,958 --> 00:08:35,875 So the Irish really invented literary postmodernism. 203 00:08:35,875 --> 00:08:37,958 And then 40 years later, the French came up with theories 204 00:08:37,958 --> 00:08:39,208 to explain it to themselves. 205 00:08:39,833 --> 00:08:40,500 It's in a way-- 206 00:08:41,125 --> 00:08:45,083 postmodernism was a way of almost filling the vacuum 207 00:08:45,500 --> 00:08:47,166 that the absence of the Irish language, 208 00:08:47,583 --> 00:08:49,708 the suppression of the Irish language, created. 209 00:08:50,666 --> 00:08:52,208 And it was another kind of a voice 210 00:08:52,500 --> 00:08:53,875 that the Irish evolved, really. 211 00:08:54,875 --> 00:08:59,541 So it gave me a philosophical understanding of literature 212 00:08:59,958 --> 00:09:01,625 and how to find a voice. 213 00:09:02,291 --> 00:09:03,583 UCC kind of gave me that. 214 00:09:03,833 --> 00:09:07,625 And it really did kind of bring me along with it 215 00:09:07,625 --> 00:09:08,791 in so many ways. 216 00:09:09,083 --> 00:09:09,250 Absolutely. 217 00:09:10,125 --> 00:09:14,500 And how do your dual lives as an academic and a creative artist 218 00:09:14,833 --> 00:09:18,166 feed into one another when you sit down 219 00:09:18,333 --> 00:09:19,500 and start a new project? 220 00:09:21,083 --> 00:09:23,166 They don't feed into each other in a lot of ways, really. 221 00:09:23,166 --> 00:09:24,958 I think academia kind of gave me discipline. 222 00:09:26,375 --> 00:09:27,125 It gave me-- 223 00:09:27,541 --> 00:09:29,333 I've been maybe trying to write things before, 224 00:09:29,416 --> 00:09:32,125 but it showed me how to really focus my energy. 225 00:09:33,333 --> 00:09:36,125 Like I said, maybe people don't see academia 226 00:09:36,125 --> 00:09:37,416 as a route to creativity. 227 00:09:37,708 --> 00:09:38,500 But it really does. 228 00:09:39,666 --> 00:09:41,375 Structures are creativity, I suppose. 229 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:42,666 It does. 230 00:09:42,666 --> 00:09:44,208 And it teaches you a kind of a structure. 231 00:09:45,958 --> 00:09:47,708 I have a kind of a way that I write myself. 232 00:09:48,125 --> 00:09:51,125 I mean, many writers would start with a blank page, 233 00:09:51,125 --> 00:09:52,166 and they would just start writing. 234 00:09:53,666 --> 00:09:54,416 I don't do that. 235 00:09:54,416 --> 00:09:55,916 I kind of take the approach that I 236 00:09:56,500 --> 00:09:59,125 do from writing essays. 237 00:09:59,875 --> 00:10:01,958 I work out what I'm going to say first. 238 00:10:02,500 --> 00:10:03,666 I structure it. 239 00:10:04,458 --> 00:10:05,291 I bullet point it. 240 00:10:05,291 --> 00:10:06,000 I break it down. 241 00:10:07,250 --> 00:10:09,291 When you plan everything out like that, 242 00:10:09,500 --> 00:10:12,375 it kind of-- it takes the pressure off. 243 00:10:12,583 --> 00:10:15,125 When you start writing it, then you can be expressive. 244 00:10:15,333 --> 00:10:16,333 You can use the language. 245 00:10:16,333 --> 00:10:17,666 You're free to use the language. 246 00:10:17,666 --> 00:10:20,750 The heavy lifting of figuring out what the story is is done. 247 00:10:21,875 --> 00:10:25,000 Now, the plan that you make is it'll change. 248 00:10:25,833 --> 00:10:26,333 It's there. 249 00:10:27,125 --> 00:10:31,666 But it gives you this kind of freedom. 250 00:10:32,041 --> 00:10:33,208 Roadmap is such a-- 251 00:10:33,458 --> 00:10:34,250 Yeah, it does. 252 00:10:34,541 --> 00:10:35,375 It really helps you. 253 00:10:36,458 --> 00:10:39,083 So kind of academia and creativity really do-- 254 00:10:40,166 --> 00:10:42,083 it was a way that I learned how to do it, really. 255

00:10:42,083 --> 00:10:44,125 And it did help me so much. 256 00:10:44,125 --> 00:10:47,625 But writing literary criticism itself is a very creative thing. 257 00:10:48,416 --> 00:10:52,291 The PhD, which later was published as "Chlochains de Suites," 258 00:10:53,875 --> 00:10:55,666 literary criticism is your perspective 259 00:10:56,166 --> 00:10:57,041 on a piece of literature. 260 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,583 And you can create a totally new way of looking at something, 261 00:11:00,583 --> 00:11:02,375 at a novel or a poem or something, 262 00:11:02,375 --> 00:11:03,250 which is very exciting. 263 00:11:03,875 --> 00:11:06,291 In a lot of ways, I think the PhD thesis 264 00:11:06,291 --> 00:11:08,458 was one of the most creative things I've done. 265 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,875 It's your vision. 266 00:11:12,333 --> 00:11:14,916 You read a book, and you can find things in it. 267 00:11:14,916 --> 00:11:15,750 It's almost like you're a detective. 268 00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:18,916 And you're finding things in it that nobody else has ever seen. 269 00:11:19,416 --> 00:11:20,375 And you're bringing this out. 270 00:11:21,083 --> 00:11:23,541 I mean, that's creativity as well, really. 271 00:11:24,291 --> 00:11:27,041 Academia in the arts, I mean, that is like-- 272 00:11:27,041 --> 00:11:29,208 I mean, it's called an arts degree for a reason 273 00:11:29,208 --> 00:11:30,291 because you're studying art. 274 00:11:31,083 --> 00:11:35,333 So they do really-- they blend, and they do really work together. 275 00:11:35,958 --> 00:11:36,041 OK. 276 00:11:36,708 --> 00:11:41,208 And speaking about your novel, El, where did the initial spark come forth? 277 00:11:43,208 --> 00:11:45,875 I know the exact point that it actually started. 278 00:11:46,333 --> 00:11:51,916 It was in the kitchen of a house in Gardeners Hill in Cork City. 279 00:11:52,666 --> 00:11:56,208 It was late in the evening, and I was sitting down, 280 00:11:56,208 --> 00:12:00,250 and the light was on, and there were two flies. 281 00:12:00,875 --> 00:12:04,375 You know how flies make these kind of misshapen rectangles 282 00:12:04,458 --> 00:12:06,250 underneath light bulbs, and they're back and forth, 283 00:12:06,250 --> 00:12:07,458 and they're swirling around each other. 284 00:12:08,291 --> 00:12:09,833 And I was sitting there, and I was looking up at them, 285 00:12:09,833 --> 00:12:12,291 and I was thinking, can you imagine now-- 286 00:12:13,166 --> 00:12:14,916 because they look like little flying machines, really. 287 00:12:15,625 --> 00:12:18,541 And I was going, can you imagine if there were a couple of tiny, 288 00:12:18,541 --> 00:12:21,750 microscopic little men inside in each of those flies, 289 00:12:22,250 --> 00:12:25,416 flying them around and having a little dog fight under the light bulb. 290 00:12:26,375 --> 00:12:30,166 And I don't know, it's just kind of an absurd little idea 291 00:12:30,166 --> 00:12:31,041 that came into my head. 292 00:12:32,041 --> 00:12:34,875 But I don't know, maybe it's the sign of madness or something. 293 00:12:36,125 --> 00:12:40,416 It's kind of-- it was the impetus really for the novel. 294 00:12:40,833 --> 00:12:41,041 OK. 295 00:12:41,125 --> 00:12:43,125 I suppose not many people come up with an absurd idea of this 296 00:12:43,125 --> 00:12:46,625 and then spend years trying to turn it into a 300-page book. 297 00:12:46,625 --> 00:12:46,916 Yeah. 298 00:12:47,125 --> 00:12:49,166 But it was just the kind of impetus. 299 00:12:49,458 --> 00:12:51,666 But L is kind of a lot more than that. 300 00:12:51,708 --> 00:12:55,541 I mean, that's the basic fantasy idea of it. 301 00:12:56,125 --> 00:12:58,750 But it kind of grew into so much more than that. 302 00:12:58,750 --> 00:13:00,000 But the initial spark was-- 303 00:13:00,833 --> 00:13:04,250 Gardeners Hill in the kitchen at night, looking at flies under the light bulb. 304 00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:06,458 Gosh, one of those splash bulb moments. 305 00:13:06,708 --> 00:13:07,583 So it was just this-- 306 00:13:07,583 --> 00:13:09,250 Literally, yeah, this light bulb moment. 307 00:13:09,708 --> 00:13:10,750 Yeah, yeah, yeah, very good. 308 00:13:11,541 --> 00:13:15,958 And what I suppose compelled you then to explore modern anxieties, 309 00:13:16,375 --> 00:13:18,791 like AI, deep fakes, and social media deception 310 00:13:19,541 --> 00:13:22,333 through the lens of this historical conspiracy. 311 00:13:24,375 --> 00:13:29,458 Well, I suppose the kind of modern digital deception, if you want to call it that, 312 00:13:29,833 --> 00:13:31,250 has many methods. 313 00:13:32,416 --> 00:13:37,666 And one is putting truths together in a way that makes falsehoods believable. 314 00:13:39,083 --> 00:13:41,458 And conspiracy theories work like that. 315 00:13:41,708 --> 00:13:43,750 They take things that are true that we know. 316 00:13:44,375 --> 00:13:49,000 And they just put them together in a way that makes something that isn't true. 317 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,250 It all makes it plausible. 318 00:13:51,375 --> 00:13:54,500 And history is one of those dependable truths, really. 319 00:13:54,625 --> 00:13:56,250 It's kind of these things that we depend on. 320 00:13:56,250 --> 00:14:01,708 I suppose that's questionable as well, in the sense that the victors write the history. 321 00:14:02,958 --> 00:14:06,291 So it was kind of an exercise in displaying this 322 00:14:06,291 --> 00:14:10,000 mechanism in a literary form, this mechanism of 323 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:14,541 deception. So in a sense, like, that's the way 324 00:14:14,541 --> 00:14:17,250 that conspiracy theories work, that they put these 325 00:14:17,416 --> 00:14:22,541 truths, these falsehoods together, or truths together in a way that makes falsehoods 326 00:14:22,541 --> 00:14:29,000 kind of believable. That's what I done with EL. I've done loads of historical research, 327 00:14:29,583 --> 00:14:35,875 kind of an immense amount, really. And I kind

of concocted a believable story to make this 328 00:14:36,291 --> 00:14:41,625 ridiculous, absurd notion that little tiny microscopic many exist in the world. But I 329 00:14:41,625 --> 00:14:44,666 tried to make it as believable as possible. And 330 00:14:44,666 --> 00:14:46,875 it's incredible. It's like, I think coincidences 331 00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:51,833 are kind of very important than that. And if you start looking for coincidences in history, 332 00:14:51,833 --> 00:14:55,583 you'll find them. And it'll be bizarre. Like, I mean, I found a few things and I went, 333 00:14:55,750 --> 00:14:57,583 God, this is not the same believable even to 334 00:14:57,583 --> 00:15:02,791 myself. So I kind of, I did really kind of try to 335 00:15:03,666 --> 00:15:07,166 find the way of using history as the way of 336 00:15:07,166 --> 00:15:10,291 making something which is unbelievable, fantastical, 337 00:15:11,041 --> 00:15:14,333 and making it seem like it was plausible. The idea 338 00:15:14,333 --> 00:15:16,291 is that the reader will look at the book and will 339 00:15:16,875 --> 00:15:22,833 say, hang on a sec, this can't be true. It's starting to seem plausible. It's the kind of 340 00:15:22,875 --> 00:15:27,583 play with that kind of idea in the reader's head that the reader knows that there are tiny 341 00:15:27,583 --> 00:15:30,166 microscopic men in flies. But at the same time, 342 00:15:30,166 --> 00:15:32,208 it's starting to become more and more plausible. 343 00:15:32,708 --> 00:15:34,958 And it sucks the reader in, doesn't it? Yeah, 344 00:15:35,291 --> 00:15:38,875 yeah. And like the narrator in the book, I mean, 345 00:15:38,875 --> 00:15:44,333 he speaks directly to the reader. And he says, Look, I know this is kind of unbelievable, but 346 00:15:44,958 --> 00:15:49,333 I swear to you, it's true. Like this book now isn't a novel. It's not a novel at all. It's 347 00:15:49,666 --> 00:15:54,666 true as I see it. And look, if you don't believe me, take your phone out of your pocket, 348 00:15:55,291 --> 00:15:59,458 go online and start looking at the internet and look up the people in the historical 349 00:16:00,625 --> 00:16:03,208 parts of this story. And you see that they're 350 00:16:03,208 --> 00:16:06,500 all there. And they are like, I stuck as much as I 351 00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:09,416 could to historical accuracy. Like everything 352 00:16:09,416 --> 00:16:11,541 in the story is true, apart from the things that 353 00:16:11,541 --> 00:16:16,125 aren't true. Yeah, namely that there are little men and flies, but everything else is true. 354 00:16:16,958 --> 00:16:17,791 Very good. 355 00:16:17,791 --> 00:16:21,000 I tried to stick to the actual facts as much as 356 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,791 possible. But I do kind of like that. I think in 357 00:16:23,791 --> 00:16:29,166 a way I do feel myself kind of influenced by George Orwell. Like George Orwell used fantasy 358 00:16:29,750 --> 00:16:38,458 to create political satire. Like 1984 is a futuristic novel. Animal Farm is a fantasy. 359 00:16:39,250 --> 00:16:42,916 So I do that as well. I use fantasy in order to 360 00:16:42,916 --> 00:16:46,708 create satire and to create a kind of review on 361 00:16:46,708 --> 00:16:50,916 the world. But I suppose this kind of idea of AI 362 00:16:50,916 --> 00:16:54,125 and defects and this deception, this is the world 363 00:16:54,125 --> 00:16:59,708 that we live in. And I think all artists, all writers, whether they like it or not, 364 00:17:00,041 --> 00:17:07,666 reflect the AI living. And I kind of do this purposely. And I suppose as well, I grew up 365 00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:14,125 at a time before the internet. And I can see the difference that it has created in the world. 366 00:17:15,333 --> 00:17:20,833 There has always been fake narratives. This deception has always existed. And you think of 367 00:17:21,083 --> 00:17:27,958 the divine right of kings, this idea that the kings are appointed by God. This notion was 368 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,875 just created very conveniently for the kings 369 00:17:29,875 --> 00:17:33,125 themselves. But it became this truth that everyone 370 00:17:33,125 --> 00:17:36,000 believes in. And everyone accepted it. And it 371 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,458 created terrible, awful catastrophes in people's 372 00:17:39,458 --> 00:17:45,625 lives, because it gave power to these people. I think even though this kind of deception has 373 00:17:45,625 --> 00:17:50,500 always existed, it is accelerating with the internet. The internet is an enormous thing 374 00:17:50,791 --> 00:17:53,416 in the world, really, the new technology that we 375 00:17:53,416 --> 00:17:56,375 have is going to utterly change life as we know it. 376 00:17:57,333 --> 00:18:00,625 And I'm doing this, I'm writing a new novel as 377 00:18:00,625 --> 00:18:03,791 well now in Irish. And I do this as well, really. 378 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:13,375 I kind of try and tackle deception and lies and fascism, really, as well. 379 00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:17,333 This new book is based on a painting by 380 00:18:17,333 --> 00:18:23,083 Hieronymus Bosch. And it's set back in the times of Bosch. 381 00:18:23,666 --> 00:18:34,208 So it's in the Netherlands in the late 15th century. But again, it's a satire on how people 382 00:18:34,208 --> 00:18:40,791 can kind of get beguiled, how good people can kind of get beguiled into a kind of violent, 383 00:18:41,041 --> 00:18:49,000 totalitarian fascist regime. So I've kind of continued this with my new book. And it is also, 384 00:18:49,833 --> 00:18:55,291 you know Bosch, it's all very kind of a hellscape, kind of bizarre kind of a 385 00:18:56,458 --> 00:19:02,250 painting. All these paintings are kind of like that most of them. So it is kind of a fantasy. 386 00:19:02,541 --> 00:19:05,708 So again, I'm using fantasy as satire, really. 387 00:19:06,291 --> 00:19:12,750 OK. And EL asks, I suppose, who controls reality? As someone kind of

deeply immersed 388 00:19:12,875 --> 00:19:17,625 in storytelling, what role do you think artists and authors play in a world where 389 00:19:17,666 --> 00:19:24,333 disinformation spreads like wildfire? Well, I suppose stories are the most powerful thing 390 00:19:24,333 --> 00:19:26,750 in the world. You know, people think it's 391 00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:29,791 armies and navies and bombs and banking and all that. 392 00:19:30,208 --> 00:19:32,875 But stories, behind everything, stories, 393 00:19:32,916 --> 00:19:35,125 everything that you do has to be backed up by a story. 394 00:19:36,291 --> 00:19:40,583 Politics, everything. It's all narrative. Everything is narrative. Everything we live 395 00:19:40,583 --> 00:19:46,041 our lives with reference to the stories that we grew up with, stories of history and culture. 396 00:19:47,125 --> 00:19:50,916 And everything forms a backdrop, if you like, to our consciousness. 397 00:19:52,416 --> 00:19:59,000 So in creating stories, we can speak out against the false narratives. You know, 398 00:19:59,291 --> 00:20:02,208 stories can do immense damage in themselves. You 399 00:20:02,208 --> 00:20:05,125 know, stories in politics and like these kind of 400 00:20:05,291 --> 00:20:11,708 deep fakes and all this kind of this internet deception, you know, we can confront those who 401 00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:14,375 would use stories to harm others and to control 402 00:20:14,375 --> 00:20:17,708 others. In a way, I suppose stories are our way 403 00:20:17,708 --> 00:20:24,291 of making sense of the world as well. Like, I mean, writing EL, it was, you know, me trying 404 00:20:24,291 --> 00:20:29,416 to make sense of the world around me. Storytellers can highlight the methods of manipulation. 405 00:20:30,416 --> 00:20:33,791 And EL and the new novel, Arisallius, does this as well. 406 00:20:34,625 --> 00:20:37,250 satire is important. The poets in ancient 407 00:20:37,250 --> 00:20:41,250 Ireland, you know, they were very, very powerful because 408 00:20:41,375 --> 00:20:45,166 they could satirise the king. And they had this 409 00:20:45,166 --> 00:20:49,541 power. So to be able to use a story or a poem or 410 00:20:49,541 --> 00:20:53,166 something like that, speak out against lies and, 411 00:20:53,166 --> 00:20:56,375 you know, against this false reality, you know, 412 00:20:56,583 --> 00:20:58,250 and against this, like you said, with 413 00:20:58,250 --> 00:21:01,625 disinformation spreads, you know, to be able to speak out against 414 00:21:01,666 --> 00:21:07,791 it. It is powerful and storytelling is very, very strong, really. 415 00:21:09,416 --> 00:21:14,666 And EL won the Irish language novel of the year, which is a massive achievement. 416 00:21:15,291 --> 00:21:19,250 What was the biggest hurdle you faced bringing this complex novel to publication? 417 00:21:20,750 --> 00:21:23,833 Well, it actually wasn't, wasn't too hard, really. 418 00:21:23,875 --> 00:21:25,750 And I suppose this brings in my connection between 419 00:21:25,833 --> 00:21:32,791 me as a musician and a writer. I was living in Dublin for a long while, and I met a lot of 420 00:21:32,916 --> 00:21:38,750 musicians and everything up there. So I met people in Kila, the band there and there are 421 00:21:39,041 --> 00:21:42,208 three of the members in Kila, the three O'Snodaigh Brothers 422 00:21:42,208 --> 00:21:48,416 Ronan, Ross and Colum. I would be very friendly with them and while chatting to them one day 423 00:21:48,416 --> 00:21:51,416 I was talking about my PhD thesis and how I'd love to 424 00:21:51,833 --> 00:21:57,333 to get it in print. And I suppose you spent so long writing a PhD, you don't want to just sit 425 00:21:57,333 --> 00:22:03,708 on a shelf someplace. So he said, why don't you have a chat with my father? So his father is 426 00:22:03,708 --> 00:22:06,791 Padraig O'Snodaigh, who passed away last year, sadly, 427 00:22:06,791 --> 00:22:11,208 but he owned the Irish language publishing company 428 00:22:11,208 --> 00:22:18,958 Coiscéim. So I spoke to him and he was an amazing man. So we got Cloghain sesqueets, 429 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,041 which was the title of my PhD thesis. I wrote a 430 00:22:22,041 --> 00:22:25,666 few extra chapters as well. So once I got that in 431 00:22:25,666 --> 00:22:28,416 print, then I said, well, I have a novel as well 432 00:22:28,416 --> 00:22:30,375 that I want to write. And he goes, great, write 433 00:22:30,375 --> 00:22:33,666 away. Once it was written, then Coiscéim published 434 00:22:33,666 --> 00:22:37,250 it for me. Great. Yeah. So it wasn't like, I suppose 435 00:22:37,250 --> 00:22:43,041 you had that initial contact that helped. I had, I had already published one book from me. So 436 00:22:44,041 --> 00:22:48,083 when they were more than willing then to publish the second one, to publish it. Yeah. 437 00:22:48,708 --> 00:22:53,583 Okay. And have you faced specific challenges in getting your Irish language work to a wider 438 00:22:53,666 --> 00:22:58,625 audience or has it been manageable or has it been easy to achieve, do you think? 439 00:22:59,166 --> 00:23:01,750 Well, I suppose you kind of have to accept as 440 00:23:01,750 --> 00:23:04,666 an Irish language writer that bookshops won't be, 441 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,875 they won't be having your books delivered by 442 00:23:06,875 --> 00:23:12,833 forklift. But I suppose you still have to believe 443 00:23:12,875 --> 00:23:18,208 that it's a changing situation. Like many more people speak Irish now. You know, there are 444 00:23:18,583 --> 00:23:25,208 Churcu Chora all over the country. Like even in West Cork, there is even Geailge Ori Ui Chorcai 445 00:23:25,208 --> 00:23:28,083 which is an umbrella group of all of the different 446 00:23:28,083 --> 00:23:30,458 Churcu Chora in each tongue. So there are connections 447 00:23:30,625 --> 00:23:33,458 being made. And, you know, it is changing. 448 00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:35,625 Ireland is

changing in relation to the Irish language. 449 00:23:35,958 --> 00:23:40,375 It's the, like, I think that the Gealscoil really is an amazing thing. You know, there are 450 00:23:40,666 --> 00:23:44,333 generations grow up of young people who own the 451 00:23:44,333 --> 00:23:46,791 language and it is their language. And, you know, 452 00:23:46,791 --> 00:23:51,208 it's, it has changed things. It's fantastic to see really, you know. 453 00:23:51,833 --> 00:23:56,916 Very good. EL has been translated into English by Mercier. How did that come about? 454 00:23:58,625 --> 00:24:01,416 I suppose it's good to kind of bring it out to a 455 00:24:01,416 --> 00:24:04,333 kind of wider audience, to people who can't speak Irish. 456 00:24:05,083 --> 00:24:09,291 But as well as that, you know, it's good to draw 457 00:24:09,291 --> 00:24:12,208 attention to the fact that Irish language literature is there. 458 00:24:12,875 --> 00:24:15,000 That, you know, these works are being produced. And 459 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,041 I think really there isn't that kind of awareness, 460 00:24:18,083 --> 00:24:22,291 because English language media seems largely to ignore Irish language literature. 461 00:24:23,375 --> 00:24:25,041 You know, I mean, you have like, if you have 462 00:24:25,041 --> 00:24:28,458 music and film and that is kind of widely broadcast, 463 00:24:28,750 --> 00:24:34,125 like bands like kneecap and Kila, that you get them, you know, they make the headlines and 464 00:24:34,375 --> 00:24:36,708 films like An Cailin Cun. People speak about 465 00:24:36,708 --> 00:24:39,083 that. But there isn't really that awareness of 466 00:24:39,083 --> 00:24:42,375 Irish language literature. So the idea that there 467 00:24:42,375 --> 00:24:44,583 is a book out there which translated from the Irish, 468 00:24:44,875 --> 00:24:46,791 this was something that I wanted to do to draw 469 00:24:46,791 --> 00:24:50,958 attention to the fact that Irish language literature is there. 470 00:24:51,791 --> 00:24:56,500 And it's great to have to be with Mercier. Mercier is an amazing company really as well. 471 00:24:57,166 --> 00:25:02,208 And it might actually draw attention to the original Irish version as well. 472 00:25:03,041 --> 00:25:06,041 That you know, the fact that there is an English language book there. 473 00:25:06,916 --> 00:25:11,041 And maybe some people might help people to read the Irish language version as well. 474 00:25:11,583 --> 00:25:12,708 Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. 475 00:25:13,291 --> 00:25:16,125 And I suppose this was part of the reason why I translated it. 476 00:25:16,791 --> 00:25:21,750 That it is drawing attention to the Irish language, the original Irish language version. 477 00:25:22,750 --> 00:25:26,458 And you know, there is this kind of gap, I think, with Irish language literature. 478 00:25:27,541 --> 00:25:32,541 That people don't really kind of know, like I remember when I got the the An post award, 479 00:25:33,375 --> 00:25:36,291 people said to me, you know, it's great that people are writing Irish language literature, 480 00:25:36,625 --> 00:25:38,708 but like they never stopped. There was always there. 481 00:25:39,583 --> 00:25:45,833 So having it published now in English, I think it's a good thing to 482 00:25:46,250 --> 00:25:49,041 for both really, for both the Irish and the English. 483 00:25:49,458 --> 00:25:51,458 And how did you find the actual process of doing this? 484 00:25:52,458 --> 00:25:57,583 It was maybe tricky enough. It's hard to translate your own work. 485 00:25:57,583 --> 00:26:01,958 You know, you're going to be very kind of sensitive about something that you've put so much 486 00:26:02,083 --> 00:26:06,041 heart and effort and thought into. And you're going to want to try and keep 487 00:26:06,625 --> 00:26:10,791 the essence of the book within languages. Two different languages work differently. 488 00:26:11,166 --> 00:26:14,583 Yes, even from a technical point of view, you translate something directly. 489 00:26:14,625 --> 00:26:19,750 It just seems kind of clunky then in the other language, you know, because just the technical 490 00:26:20,708 --> 00:26:24,416 kind of aspects of the language. But so it was 491 00:26:24,416 --> 00:26:28,916 kind of, you know, it has its own kind of merits 492 00:26:28,958 --> 00:26:33,500 translating it to itself, because, you know, you know, that this is what the way that you 493 00:26:33,541 --> 00:26:36,375 want it to be. But, you know, it wouldn't be as 494 00:26:36,375 --> 00:26:38,458 nice a process maybe as originally writing the book. 495 00:26:40,166 --> 00:26:45,541 I suppose there is the benefit, though, that like if you got someone else to translate it, 496 00:26:45,958 --> 00:26:48,375 it probably would have lost a little bit. 497 00:26:48,375 --> 00:26:50,875 Whereas, whereas you're when you're translating yourself, 498 00:26:51,541 --> 00:26:57,750 as you say, you know what the whole meaning, the very in-depth meaning of the book is, 499 00:26:58,041 --> 00:27:03,416 and you're able to translate that in maybe not literally, but what the way it's meant to be 500 00:27:03,458 --> 00:27:08,583 read as. Yeah, exactly. There is the fact that I kind of know where I was coming from 501 00:27:08,625 --> 00:27:11,291 for the first in the first place, that I kind of 502 00:27:11,291 --> 00:27:13,791 knew the right way to translate things, I suppose. 503 00:27:13,791 --> 00:27:15,291 So yeah, there is that. It's a very good point. 504 00:27:15,708 --> 00:27:18,875 Very good. Very good. OK. And speaking, I suppose, 505 00:27:19,333 --> 00:27:22,458 to your music now, you play an incredible mix of 506 00:27:22,458 --> 00:27:25,291 instruments. How did your musical journey begin? 507 00:27:25,291 --> 00:27:29,666 I know you mentioned there about your parents were kind of influential in terms of singing 508 00:27:30,333 --> 00:27:34,125 and music, but what led you to such diverse sounds? 509

00:27:35,333 --> 00:27:38,625 Well, I started playing guitar when I was 12. 510 00:27:40,291 --> 00:27:43,625 And I suppose I always kind of looked to different 511 00:27:43,625 --> 00:27:46,625 avenues and tried to expand things and explore 512 00:27:46,625 --> 00:27:50,083 different ways of playing. I guess as a teenager, 513 00:27:50,291 --> 00:27:53,458 I was very bold, really, I kind of go on the hop 514 00:27:53,458 --> 00:27:56,916 from school. I'd go into it. Never. I'd go into it, 515 00:27:57,250 --> 00:28:00,333 I'd go into it. But what I do is I kind of got 516 00:28:00,333 --> 00:28:03,083 an almost a better education. I'd go into the city 517 00:28:03,083 --> 00:28:05,291 centre and after I'd kind of spent my money on 518 00:28:05,291 --> 00:28:08,375 pool and space invaders, I'd go to the music library 519 00:28:09,208 --> 00:28:11,791 and I'd sit there and I'd listen. You know, at 520 00:28:11,791 --> 00:28:14,208 the time you could the tables had little sockets 521 00:28:14,208 --> 00:28:18,875 for headphones and you could pick out vinyl records and sit there. I discovered things like, 522 00:28:18,875 --> 00:28:21,500 you know, Miles Davis, Jimi Hendrix, B.B. King, 523 00:28:21,625 --> 00:28:24,541 all the kind of 60s psychedelia. And it really 524 00:28:24,541 --> 00:28:27,500 kind of expanded my mind musically like that. So 525 00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:29,458 like when I was young, I played a lot of electric 526 00:28:29,666 --> 00:28:35,541 blues guitar. I got into playing traditional Irish music then, but in a very strange way, 527 00:28:35,541 --> 00:28:40,958 really, because this was around the time of Sir Henry's and, you know, the techno rave scene, 528 00:28:41,041 --> 00:28:45,416 which I got really into as well. And so I went and 529 00:28:45,416 --> 00:28:48,291 I bought a Roland R5 drum machine with sample bass. 530 00:28:49,458 --> 00:28:51,000 And I kind of knew people playing trad and I 531 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,041 went, great, if we kind of got a band which done that, 532 00:28:54,083 --> 00:28:57,750 which kind of had techno and trad, we were actually called Lunisa, which is the name of 533 00:28:57,750 --> 00:29:02,375 another band since that became very big. But we had the name first, strangely, but 534 00:29:02,375 --> 00:29:06,500 if it all falls apart, it can always sue them. 535 00:29:06,916 --> 00:29:12,041 So then I played loads of trad and then I got a 536 00:29:12,041 --> 00:29:15,083 job playing in an Irish bar in Abu Dhabi. So I 537 00:29:15,083 --> 00:29:17,291 was there for three months and I came back with 538 00:29:17,291 --> 00:29:20,666 an Arabic lute, an ute. Then I lived in Dublin 539 00:29:20,666 --> 00:29:23,625 and I played in a band called Mandala, which was 540 00:29:24,750 --> 00:29:27,875 a mixture of Indian and Arabic and jazz and trad 541 00:29:27,875 --> 00:29:30,083 and everything. There's a great sitar player who 542 00:29:30,083 --> 00:29:32,791 was living in Cork now, Darragh O'Brien. So it 543 00:29:32,791 --> 00:29:36,250 was sitar, oud, bass clarinet, soprano, saxophone, 544 00:29:37,041 --> 00:29:39,208 tabla, hammerdoll, some more. So we had this 545 00:29:39,208 --> 00:29:42,041 really eclectic sound and mixed different styles. 546 00:29:42,625 --> 00:29:49,250 And I suppose even in college I learned the learning Sean Os from Eibhlis Ni Houlibhain 547 00:29:49,291 --> 00:29:53,750 And now I suppose in a lot of ways I do play the oud, 548 00:29:54,291 --> 00:29:58,458 which spoken word and which channels as well. So I was singing a kind of a 549 00:29:58,458 --> 00:30:01,166 channel, but to play the oud, which I suppose it's 550 00:30:01,166 --> 00:30:04,291 all really just experimenting and seeing what works. 551 00:30:05,041 --> 00:30:07,833 Like I have a house, I have loads of instruments in the house. 552 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,708 I wish I can play it to varying degrees. I kind of pick things up and go, oh, I get that. 553 00:30:14,750 --> 00:30:16,958 And fixing it's there. It's fantastic. 554 00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:19,625 How do you decide which instrument best serves 555 00:30:19,625 --> 00:30:22,583 like the story or poem you're trying to tell on stage? 556 00:30:23,791 --> 00:30:29,291 I suppose the story itself will kind of inform you really. Like I have this poem, 557 00:30:29,791 --> 00:30:34,083 long enough poem, but it's quite a surreal poem. It's almost like a kind of a desert like 558 00:30:34,666 --> 00:30:38,625 post-apocalyptic world. In a way it's kind of a commentary on the world we're living in. 559 00:30:38,625 --> 00:30:43,458 I would improvise on the oud while reciting it, 560 00:30:44,166 --> 00:30:45,791 which is kind of a nice thing to do. You can kind 561 00:30:45,791 --> 00:30:48,833 of focus really on both things at the same time 562 00:30:48,833 --> 00:30:51,750 that you're reciting a poem, which you can kind of 563 00:30:52,541 --> 00:30:55,125 improvise with the oud and just let the two 564 00:30:55,125 --> 00:30:58,041 things kind of blend together. And then I suppose like 565 00:30:58,166 --> 00:31:03,083 Imram an Freichain, which is the long poem that I've written, it's about 40 minutes to recite, 566 00:31:03,125 --> 00:31:09,791 but it's a journey through Cork City at night. And it's almost like kind of a Dante's Inferno 567 00:31:09,791 --> 00:31:14,041 thing. So it's quite jazzy really in that sense 568 00:31:14,041 --> 00:31:16,458 that it's a kind of a cityscape, but it's a blend 569 00:31:16,458 --> 00:31:20,500 as well. My wife, Sam, she plays the harp and 570 00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:23,958 then I have Paul McMahon, who's another great writer, 571 00:31:24,291 --> 00:31:30,458 actually. He plays bass and guitar and Jacobs on saxophone. So there's this kind of 572 00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:32,625 harp with saxophone and kind of jazz and a 573 00:31:32,625 --> 00:31:37,166 blend. So it's the story itself really, that kind of 574 00:31:37,458 --> 00:31:40,291

inform really what you can do. But all that can 575 00:31:40,291 --> 00:31:43,208 change. I mean, I'd like to kind of do Imram an 576 00:31:43,208 --> 00:31:49,208 Freichain as a solo project, maybe using more electronic or recorded songs mixed with playing 577 00:31:49,208 --> 00:31:53,000 and mixed with instruments as well. Okay, so it 578 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,333 depends on the mood as well, I suppose, as everything 579 00:31:57,458 --> 00:32:03,916 else. It is really like how you can feel that what you think the work itself is projecting, 580 00:32:03,916 --> 00:32:10,000 but how you feel at the time and how you'd like to do it. And you can always change it and do 581 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,458 something else. Absolutely. That's the joy of 582 00:32:12,458 --> 00:32:16,375 being creative, isn't it? Yeah. And you've collaborated 583 00:32:16,625 --> 00:32:20,791 with different groups and individuals. What's the most important lesson you've learned about 584 00:32:20,791 --> 00:32:26,833 staying true to your own artistic vision in these collaborations? Well, I suppose you 585 00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:30,291 collaborate with like minded people as well. So 586 00:32:30,291 --> 00:32:33,166 I think when you connect with people that you do 587 00:32:33,166 --> 00:32:35,291 have a kind of shared vision in a lot of ways, 588 00:32:35,291 --> 00:32:37,583 you know, but you also have to be open to other 589 00:32:37,583 --> 00:32:43,875 people's vision. But there are so many great musicians really that I've played with really. 590 00:32:45,125 --> 00:32:50,375 Cork City as well has so much going on. There's a great trad scene in Cork City, 591 00:32:50,416 --> 00:32:56,625 like I played for years in the Sin E, but at Clannicilty as well as a great trad scene. But 592 00:32:56,750 --> 00:32:59,041 collaboration, it's a fantastic thing really. 593 00:32:59,041 --> 00:33:00,958 It kind of brings you to places that you wouldn't 594 00:33:00,958 --> 00:33:04,625 otherwise go. And it is kind of bigger than the 595 00:33:04,625 --> 00:33:08,500 sum of its parts, really. And how does the energy 596 00:33:08,541 --> 00:33:14,208 of a live multimedia performance compare to the solitary experience of writing a novel? 597 00:33:15,208 --> 00:33:18,625 They are, I suppose, a different kind of a headspace when you're doing it. I mean, the 598 00:33:19,041 --> 00:33:21,500 energy of the crowd and the tension of keeping 599 00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:24,375 all the plates spinning. And the poem is created 600 00:33:24,375 --> 00:33:29,500 in a kind of a solitary space. But that can have its own kind of intense energy as well 601 00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:32,708 when you're writing. So the boat has this kind 602 00:33:32,708 --> 00:33:35,583 of energy. But in a way, the live performance is 603 00:33:35,583 --> 00:33:43,416 fed by the energy of the solitary creativity as well. You're trying to connect those two 604 00:33:43,791 --> 00:33:50,833 moments in time together,

you know, that you are bringing one into the other. And you know, 605 00:33:50,833 --> 00:33:55,708 maybe in a lot of ways, a lot of my poetry is kind of written for live performance, 606 00:33:56,041 --> 00:33:58,708 you know, for spoken word with music. You know, 607 00:33:59,791 --> 00:34:02,541 you can really kind of, you can blend this really, 608 00:34:02,875 --> 00:34:06,208 it is a blend in a lot of ways. And balancing 609 00:34:06,208 --> 00:34:10,125 the rules of being an award-winning poet, novelist 610 00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:15,541 must be demanding. What have been the biggest challenge in managing the different outlets? 611 00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:19,750 Well, I suppose the focus shifts really, you 612 00:34:19,750 --> 00:34:22,375 know, when you're writing, you know, it can take up a 613 00:34:22,375 --> 00:34:24,500 novel that especially the novel, writing a novel 614 00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:26,666 just takes up so much. So you kind of have to step 615 00:34:26,666 --> 00:34:29,083 back a bit from other projects. And I have had to 616 00:34:29,083 --> 00:34:32,041 say, look, I can't really do this novel for a while. 617 00:34:32,958 --> 00:34:35,583 And because like the novel can be all consuming 618 00:34:35,583 --> 00:34:38,833 more than anything else. And you're creating a 619 00:34:38,875 --> 00:34:41,000 world and you're living in it, when you're 620 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,208 writing it, you know, and it takes kind of time. So you 621 00:34:44,208 --> 00:34:49,500 do have to focus on wanting and you know, a good 622 00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:51,625 friend of mine said, well, we only actually have 623 00:34:51,625 --> 00:35:01,041 time for one and a half obsessions. You do one and then you'll have to do the other one. 624 00:35:01,875 --> 00:35:04,583 So really, I think focusing really is important. 625 00:35:04,875 --> 00:35:09,708 Yeah, it's the key. Yeah. Okay. And when you look at the cultural scene in Cork today, 626 00:35:09,958 --> 00:35:12,500 how well do you feel it supports multidisciplinary 627 00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:15,833 artists who want to blend literature, music and the spoken word? 628 00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:20,833 Well, Cork is a thriving artistic scene. It has a 629 00:35:20,833 --> 00:35:24,541 huge energy. And I think there is a demand for that 630 00:35:24,541 --> 00:35:29,041 kind of eclectic, innovative art. And once there's 631 00:35:29,041 --> 00:35:32,625 a demand, then it will, you know, it will happen. 632 00:35:32,625 --> 00:35:36,958 And you will find, yeah, you will find there are 633 00:35:36,958 --> 00:35:39,416 great things happening among Cork. And then I think 634 00:35:39,416 --> 00:35:43,916 it's important that there are small venues. You know, I think small venues are really, really 635 00:35:44,083 --> 00:35:48,541 sort of an immense purpose. There are spaces like I think like upstairs above The Roundy, 636 00:35:48,541 --> 00:35:51,000 it's kind of open for doing kind of eclectic kind 637 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,000 of things like that. And there probably could be 638 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,750 some more, I think like you only need a very small 639 00:35:56,750 --> 00:35:59,500 space, you know. I mean, I remember the first gig 640 00:35:59,500 --> 00:36:02,625 I ever done was in the Phoenix. Now, the upstairs 641 00:36:02,625 --> 00:36:04,791 in the Phoenix, they've changed it now, it's probably 642 00:36:04,791 --> 00:36:07,375 fire regulations. But between the first store, 643 00:36:07,583 --> 00:36:09,666 first story and the second story, they cut away 644 00:36:09,666 --> 00:36:11,791 apart from the ceiling. So the top floor was 645 00:36:11,791 --> 00:36:14,916 basically a balcony. And so that was like, that was, 646 00:36:14,916 --> 00:36:20,500 it was an amazing gig space. But like even in Dublin, I used to go to the international bar, 647 00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:23,458 and it was a tiny room above the bar. And they 648 00:36:23,458 --> 00:36:27,166 had singer songwriters, one night and comedians the 649 00:36:27,208 --> 00:36:32,916 next night. And all of the big, the Damien Dempsey, Patty Casey, all the big comedians, 650 00:36:32,958 --> 00:36:37,791 they all came out of that little room. So if you just have a little room with a stage, 651 00:36:38,208 --> 00:36:39,958 doesn't have to have a massive PA doesn't have to 652 00:36:39,958 --> 00:36:43,250 have anything, just have that and give it a space 653 00:36:43,250 --> 00:36:46,000 to people who are trying things out. And that can 654 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,125 really a few of them in the city, if there were a 655 00:36:49,125 --> 00:36:53,791 few more of them would change things. Let the magic happen. Let the magic happen. 656 00:36:54,083 --> 00:37:01,416 And what's I suppose looking back at your incredible journey across music, academia and 657 00:37:01,416 --> 00:37:07,083 literature, what's one thing you wish you'd known when you're first starting out in Cork's 658 00:37:07,083 --> 00:37:13,333 creative community? I don't know if I'd kind of maybe look at it that way. Like it's all been 659 00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:16,583 a journey. And it's not over. Yes, like 660 00:37:16,583 --> 00:37:19,750 everything is part of the journey. And everything has its 661 00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:22,708 own time and place really. And you need to give 662 00:37:22,708 --> 00:37:25,250 yourself time to figure that out, I think in a 663 00:37:25,250 --> 00:37:28,375 lot of ways. Maybe if I had started, if I'd done 664 00:37:28,375 --> 00:37:31,083 one thing differently, or maybe would things have 665 00:37:31,083 --> 00:37:34,708 been different, but at the same time, it's all a 666 00:37:34,708 --> 00:37:36,875 journey and you have to let it happen in its own 667 00:37:36,875 --> 00:37:39,250 way. It's not about the end point. It's about how 668 00:37:39,250 --> 00:37:42,291 you did. It's not. It is exactly. And what's the 669 00:37:42,291 --> 00:37:44,333 best piece of advice you'd give a young musician 670 00:37:44,333 --> 00:37:48,791 or a writer in Cork? I suppose kind of just trust 671 00:37:48,875 --> 00:37:53,958 your own voice and believe that you have a vision 672 00:37:53,958 --> 00:37:56,750 which is different from other people's. It might 673 00:37:56,750 --> 00:38:02,250 not necessarily be better or worse, but it's different and it's unique. And I suppose believe 674 00:38:02,250 --> 00:38:06,375 that you can't do everything straight away, but 675 00:38:06,375 --> 00:38:09,166 at a given time, you have the capacity to figure 676 00:38:09,166 --> 00:38:14,333 things out and to believe that you can really make 677 00:38:14,333 --> 00:38:17,083 things happen if you just focus your energy on it. 678 00:38:17,125 --> 00:38:24,125 And time is long. You have space to explore and discover what you want to do. As artists, 679 00:38:24,125 --> 00:38:27,833 we have our whole lives really. You don't have to do everything when you're young. 680 00:38:29,083 --> 00:38:30,791 Creativity is something that grows and it 681 00:38:30,791 --> 00:38:36,541 evolves. And it's beautiful really. So just enjoy it and 682 00:38:37,666 --> 00:38:39,500 it's kind of part of who you are and it always 683 00:38:39,500 --> 00:38:44,916 will be. So just enjoy the journey and trust that 684 00:38:45,416 --> 00:38:48,958 you have a vision and stick to it. Very good. 685 00:38:49,166 --> 00:38:51,708 Well on that note of positivity, thank you so much 686 00:38:51,708 --> 00:38:54,625 Thaddeus for taking the time to chat to us on the 687 00:38:54,625 --> 00:38:56,833 Cork Creative podcast. If you want to find more 688 00:38:57,041 --> 00:38:59,750 information about Thaddeus and his work, you can 689 00:38:59,750 --> 00:39:02,291 find links on corkcreative.ie. Thank you very much, 690 00:39:02,291 --> 00:39:03,833 Thank you very much Geraldine.