dead things: there's no fresh start without grief - ft. Sambrywil (S3, Ep. 1) ၏ စာသားမှတ်တမ်းအပြည့်အစုံ

46 00:04:05,677.74378803 --> 00:04:06,837.74378803 as terrifying. 47 00:04:08,127.74378803 --> 00:04:14,120.48103293 It's scary and it can't be solved with Buffy and some cute little one-liner and some kung fu fighting girl with her little ponytail. 48 00:04:14,480.48103293 --> 00:04:17,466.53758793 It is heavy Anyway. 49 00:04:17,466.53758793 --> 00:04:21,126.53758793 There's one episode that I really like in season six, and it's called Dead Things. 50 00:04:21,666.53758793 --> 00:04:23,826.53758793 Go back and watch it if you haven't already. 51 00:04:24,336.53758793 --> 00:04:28,926.53758793 The Cliff Notes version is Buffy has come back from the dead and she feels like something is wrong with her. 52 00:04:28,926.53758793 --> 00:04:31,446.53758793 She feels like something's not quite right. 53 00:04:31,956.53758793 --> 00:04:34,716.53758793 She doesn't feel things like she should feel things. 54 00:04:34,716.53758793 --> 00:04:43,866.53758793 She isn't experiencing the world and life, and her humanity and her vitality the way that she did before she died, and to add insult to injury. 55 00:04:43,866.53758793 --> 00:04:44,886.53758793 Now, spike can hit her. 56 00:04:44,886.53758793 --> 00:04:45,546.53758793 It's a whole thing. 57 00:04:45,576.53758793 --> 00:04:47,136.53758793 Okay? He had a chip, whatever. 58 00:04:47,466.53758793 --> 00:04:49,756.53758793 Anyway, she's trying to figure out what's wrong with her. 59 00:04:50,766.53758793 --> 00:04:59,826.53758793 And I think a lot of us who have repressed trauma have this similar experience where it's almost a disconnect, right? And it is a disconnect. 60 00:04:59,826.53758793 --> 00:05:33,21.53758793 It is a way of us safeguarding ourselves from our trauma by removing the emotional component and repressing a lot of our emotions, compartmentalizing and if you are someone who's type A like me, we intellectualize our experiences, our emotions, right? I feel shame, I feel frustrated, I feel lonely, but do you really feel it or can you just recognize it? You recognize that you are experiencing these emotions, but you're not really experiencing them. 61 00:05:33,21.53758793 --> 00:05:33,981.53758793 You're not really feeling them. 62 00:05:33,981.53758793 --> 00:05:38,901.53758793 You are seeing outside of your body, like you're floating above your body and you can see that person feels shame. 63 00:05:41,601.53758793 --> 00:05:50,181.53758793 That numbness, and it's not really the emotions that you have to grapple with. 64 00:05:50,181.53758793 --> 00:05:57,231.53758793 It's the numbness because you feel like something is wrong with me, that I don't feel things like everybody else feels things, something's wrong. 65 00:05:57,741.53758793 --> 00:06:07,641.53758793 It's that panic that that fear of wrongness of something being defective, that's an emotion. 66 00:06:08,406.53758793 --> 00:06:11,856.53758793 That I feel like isn't talked about a lot when we talk about trauma. 67

00:06:13,416.53758793 --> 00:06:16,626.53758793 The numbness is what's scary, not the feelings. 68 00:06:18,336.53758793 --> 00:06:36,182.44676596 And what do we do when we've repressed that emotion? What do we do once we heal and we're not able to create an identity outside of that trauma? We start to hold onto it, we start to romanticize the feeling of loneliness. 69 00:06:36,282.44676596 --> 00:06:43,112.44676596 That's why a lot of us still have so much nostalgia about our emo period, right? There's this romanticizing that some of us do. 70 00:06:43,862.44676596 --> 00:06:47,150.84807744 Romanticizing pain and loneliness and solitude. 71 00:06:47,150.84807744 --> 00:07:03,260.84807744 In my annual rewatch of Buffy this year and watching and thinking about the episode of Dead Things, I started to think about how we sometimes try to push ahead into something new without properly grieving and feeling and experiencing. 72 00:07:03,722.02271197 --> 00:07:12,2.02271197 Our expectations and what we thought would happen, the life we thought we would have, the body we thought we would have the parent we thought we would be, the relationship we thought we would have. 73 00:07:12,482.02271197 --> 00:07:23,429.48337561 How many of us are holding onto dead things but trying to start something new? Like refusing to cut your split ends when you know you need to cut them split ends girl. 74 00:07:23,429.48337561 --> 00:07:24,869.48337561 Cause you don't wanna lose your length. 75 00:07:27,863.94881059 --> 00:07:40,672.42371704 how many of us are holding onto dead things for dear life? How can you ever expect to start fresh with a rotten foundation? Okay. 76 00:07:40,672.42371704 --> 00:07:41,272.42371704 A little dramatic. 77 00:07:41,272.42371704 --> 00:07:41,602.42371704 I know. 78 00:07:41,602.42371704 --> 00:07:51,862.42371704 But on that note, and while we're on the topic of discussion, I'm going to issue us, usher us, usher us into a little bit of a segue into my conversation with my friend Sam. 79 00:07:52,462.42371704 --> 00:07:57,982.42371704 Sam is an artist and a creative, he lives in New York City and he is doing some really incredible things. 80 00:07:57,982.42371704 --> 00:08:09,722.42371704 He actually just finished a book and it centers around loss and grieving specifically of a relationship, a story of grieving a relationship and what that looks like. 81 00:08:10,132.42371704 --> 00:08:16,552.42371704 I think what a lot of us think about when we think about grieving is death, right? But we're thinking about the physical death of someone. 82 00:08:16,602.42371704 --> 00:08:30,987.42371704 And besides physical death and your career, what about relationships ending, losing a best friend, losing the love of your life? All of these are things that we grieve, heartaches, that we all have to contend with. 83 00:08:31,347.31282549 --> 00:08:34,342.31282549 And what do you do with the broken heart? Well. 84 00:08:35,712.31282549 -->

00:08:36,732.31282549 Some of us create. 85 00:08:38,79.94251688 --> 00:08:39,699.94251688 And we are back. 86 00:08:39,729.94251688 --> 00:08:50,259.94251688 We're here with a special guest, a friend of mine, Sambrywill Sam, I, I, I'm gonna always refer to you as Sam 'cause I know you as Sam, but, um, let's keep it fancy for the girls on the pod. 87 00:08:50,976.94251688 --> 00:08:51,446.94251688 Thank you. 88 00:08:51,776.94251688 --> 00:08:52,646.94251688 Appreciate that. 89 00:08:52,659.94251688 --> 00:08:56,199.94251688 he's an artist, creative director in New York City. 90 00:08:56,199.94251688 --> 00:08:57,279.94251688 Very fancy. 91 00:08:57,849.94251688 --> 00:08:59,469.94251688 Um, yeah. 92 00:09:01,471.94251688 --> 00:09:02,971.94251688 my refrigerator is still white. 93 00:09:03,31.94251688 --> 00:09:14,934.94251688 Do not Listen, um, the way that, so I, I know Sam from, uh, humble Beginnings in Augusta, Georgia, um, smoking cigarettes in front of, uh, a cute little university that we both went to. 94 00:09:14,934.94251688 --> 00:09:20,364.94251688 And so now, um, you're living in the big city and doing really cool things as an artist. 95 00:09:20,424.94251688 --> 00:09:21,601.94251688 And, Yeah. 96 00:09:21,684.94251688 --> 00:09:24,196.94251688 um, Yes. 97 00:09:24,384.94251688 --> 00:09:26,574.94251688 you a little bit about your most recent project. 98 00:09:26,986.94251688 --> 00:09:27,466.94251688 Yeah. 99 00:09:27,526.94251688 --> 00:09:31,486.94251688 I'm so excited to, you know, be, uh, here. 100 00:09:31,486.94251688 --> 00:09:52,846.94251688 You did my podcast during COVID and I'm so happy to like, kind of come full circle and see, like, even I would listen to our episode not too long ago and it was just like through line's still there, but I'm really proud of us for like, sticking with it, you know, and, now we're here and from humble beginnings to our university to now, I, I don't smoke anymore. 101 00:09:52,846.94251688 --> 00:09:53,686.94251688 I'm sure you don't either. 102 00:09:53,686.94251688 --> 00:09:53,866.94251688 I know. 103 00:09:53,959.94251688 --> 00:09:54,559.94251688 I don't, yeah. 104 00:09:54,796.94251688 --> 00:09:59,919.94251688 yeah, sometimes I need to Have those moments where I'm like, this moment like I need Camel Crush. 105 00:10:02,416.94251688 --> 00:10:02,866.94251688 pop. 106 00:10:03,316.94251688 --> 00:10:03,766.94251688 I know. 107 00:10:04,156.94251688 --> 00:10:04,816.94251688 Exactly. 108 00:10:05,446.94251688 --> 00:10:08,426.94251688 But yeah so a little bit just a little bit of an update. 109 00:10:08,426.94251688 --> 00:10:09,956.94251688 I work at a restaurant. 110 00:10:09,956.94251688 --> 00:10:16,366.94251688 Well, I'm a creative director, so I've been doing design and creative direction for like over five years, like six years. 111 00:10:16,426.94251688 --> 00:10:16,966.94251688 Um. 112 00:10:17,701.94251688 --> 00:10:18,541.94251688 even longer than

that. 113 00:10:18,901.94251688 --> 00:10:26,784.94251688 And then this past year I started working directly with Joanne's Trattoria, which is Lady Gaga's family's restaurant on the Upper West Side here in Oh, love. 114 00:10:27,421.94251688 --> 00:10:32,581.94251688 And I went there actually, 'cause I wrote my first book the project that we have is the second one. 115 00:10:32,581.94251688 --> 00:10:36,661.94251688 But the first one I wrote was just like a little compilation of stuff to kind of as a tester. 116 00:10:37,194.94251688 --> 00:10:37,434.94251688 Yeah. 117 00:10:37,621.94251688 --> 00:10:38,821.94251688 a poetry night there. 118 00:10:38,971.94251688 --> 00:10:42,781.94251688 And then, um, ended up, you know, fitting in and mixing well with the group. 119 00:10:42,781.94251688 --> 00:11:00,241.94251688 And with that, it's been amazing that we've been able to like, build out this community of artists and give a platform to emerging artists and singers and, um, create community around, you know, people with, with a reputation and a cachet and sort of like, a platform. 120 00:11:00,241.94251688 --> 00:11:04,111.94251688 And to share that with really, really amazing, talented young people. 121 00:11:04,111.94251688 --> 00:11:07,81.94251688 It's been incredible, uh, like a really incredible experience of mine. 122 00:11:07,921.94251688 --> 00:11:08,371.94251688 Um. 123 00:11:09,76.94251688 --> 00:11:13,156.94251688 being there, I was, wasn't really focused on anything, so I had this book. 124 00:11:13,156.94251688 --> 00:11:13,426.94251688 Right. 125 00:11:13,426.94251688 --> 00:11:20,866.94251688 And then Joe was, you know, we, we were talking and we had a bit of a break and Joe was like, what are you gonna do? I said, well, I'm gonna write, I'm working on this, you know, stuff. 126 00:11:20,866.94251688 --> 00:11:23,296.94251688 And he's like, well, don't you already have a book? And I said, yeah. 127 00:11:23,296.94251688 --> 00:11:24,46.94251688 I mean, I have one. 128 00:11:24,46.94251688 --> 00:11:25,456.94251688 He's like, well, you need, you go promote it. 129 00:11:26,236.94251688 --> 00:11:26,836.94251688 was like, okay. 130 00:11:27,129.94251688 --> 00:11:27,219.94251688 Mm-hmm. 131 00:11:28,246.94251688 --> 00:11:34,876.94251688 couple, here we are a couple months later and happy to, um, be sharing the work and really happy to be here with you. 132 00:11:34,876.94251688 --> 00:11:36,736.94251688 So thank you so much for like, having me on. 133 00:11:37,29.94251688 --> 00:11:38,139.94251688 Yes, of course. 134 00:11:38,139.94251688 --> 00:11:38,889.94251688 I listen. 135 00:11:38,889.94251688 --> 00:11:53,709.94251688 I think one of the most important things that we can do as creatives is, um, I remember I was watching, um, a video recently of Issa Rae talking about how oftentimes when you're starting out as a creator, not even starting out 'cause you've been doing this for years, but there's this like.

136 00:11:55,464.94251688 --> 00:12:00,174.94251688 Knee jerk reaction to try to like reach up and say like, somebody, please give me a shot, someone give me a chance. 137 00:12:00,504.94251688 --> 00:12:01,224.94251688 See me. 138 00:12:01,584.94251688 --> 00:12:08,724.94251688 Um, and a lot of times we're much more successful instead of, you know, reaching up that to reach out, right? Like around. 139 00:12:08,971.94251688 --> 00:12:09,901.94251688 I love that. 140 00:12:10,29.94251688 --> 00:12:10,449.94251688 Yeah. 141 00:12:10,564.94251688 --> 00:12:25,539.94251688 To, to the people who are around us, because a lot of times, you know, our peers are, you know, fiercely com, you know, creative and, you know, um, as, as opposed to looking at them as competitors, seeing them as like people we can bounce ideas off of and vibe off of and build and grow. 142 00:12:25,546.94251688 --> 00:12:35,229.94251688 I, Um, that's something that I found just like you have in community, so much more of a, a confidence in my passion as opposed to me feeling. 143 00:12:35,814.94251688 --> 00:12:37,194.94251688 Like, I'm just so much of a beginner. 144 00:12:37,194.94251688 --> 00:12:37,434.94251688 Oh. 145 00:12:37,434.94251688 --> 00:12:39,354.94251688 Like, you know, very timid, like, oh, I don't really know anything. 146 00:12:39,354.94251688 --> 00:12:44,274.94251688 I feel a lot more confident in my passion around other creatives 'cause it gives me space to feel that. 147 00:12:45,541.94251688 --> 00:12:45,901.94251688 agree. 148 00:12:45,991.94251688 --> 00:12:56,671.94251688 And I think you start to realize, like, for me, especially, I was always doing everything by myself, you know? So I was like photographing myself, writing the story of filming whatever, you know, as we've all learned to do. 149 00:12:56,964.94251688 --> 00:12:57,354.94251688 Yeah. 150 00:12:58,141.94251688 --> 00:13:14,821.94251688 but what I've als what I've found is like, how, like what is my role in the creative projects? And so like this creative director thing sort of came out of really feeling like I unders not like, I mean, I love to make work as much as anybody else and that's why I like have my books so I can kind of control that world. 151 00:13:14,821.94251688 --> 00:13:30,691.94251688 But that empowering other people to do their best work and like kind of carrying a vision and helping other people get on the boat and like we all like rode towards the same goal is really been like the most rewarding experience of my life so far. 152 00:13:30,691.94251688 --> 00:13:37,681.94251688 It's been able to tap into that and do that on like a big scale, on a small scale, personal, you know, far away, all of that. 153 00:13:37,681.94251688 --> 00:13:38,859.94251688 So Yeah. 154 00:13:39,661.94251688 --> 00:13:43,111.94251688 I'm really excited that that's found me, I guess, if that makes sense. 155 00:13:43,209.94251688 --> 00:13:43,689.94251688 Yeah. 156 00:13:43,689.94251688 --> 00:13:44,499.94251688 No, I love that. 157 00:13:44,499.94251688 --> 00:13:49,749.94251688 I think too, um, mentorship is such a, like, powerful and like transformative. 158 00:13:50,694.94251688 --> 00:13:52,644.94251688 Like process in and of itself. 159 00:13:53,64.94251688 --> 00:14:00,104.94251688 Um, you know, it's really like you have to be very vulnerable to be able to even, mentor or seek to try to empower others or inspire others. 160 00:14:00,104.94251688 --> 00:14:04,184.94251688 Like, you have to be really vulnerable because that that's the only way that you'll touch others. 161 00:14:04,574.94251688 --> 00:14:05,84.94251688 Um. 162 00:14:05,316.94251688 --> 00:14:05,766.94251688 That's true. 163 00:14:06,454.94251688 --> 00:14:06,934.94251688 Speaking. 164 00:14:06,964.94251688 --> 00:14:11,524.94251688 Um, and it's, I I think that, um, what you're doing is so cool. 165 00:14:11,524.94251688 --> 00:14:12,784.94251688 I, I just think it's so dope. 166 00:14:12,784.94251688 --> 00:14:20,624.94251688 I know we were talking a little bit before where we hit record about having non-traditional paths and how we have to kind of come to have a come to Jesus moment about that. 167 00:14:20,624.94251688 --> 00:14:31,574.94251688 Like, okay, like my path is gonna look a little bit different or, you know, I'm going to resolve to having a non-traditional type of, career or just life in general is based around the art. 168 00:14:32,24.94251688 --> 00:14:32,384.94251688 Um. 169 00:14:32,879.94251688 --> 00:14:33,899.94251688 I just think it's so dope. 170 00:14:33,899.94251688 --> 00:14:39,119.94251688 I just love people who do that to kind of go against the grain and kind of follow truly what their passions are. 171 00:14:39,179.94251688 --> 00:14:40,499.94251688 It's easier to do the latter. 172 00:14:41,146.94251688 --> 00:14:42,796.94251688 It is, it's scary. 173 00:14:42,826.94251688 --> 00:14:52,366.94251688 I mean, I've gotten to the place where I used to blame myself a lot for not like being able to buy in the way that other people have bought in. 174 00:14:52,619.94251688 --> 00:14:53,39.94251688 Hmm. 175 00:14:53,236.94251688 --> 00:14:59,279.94251688 now I've kind of gotten to the, like, that was really a lot of my, like mid to later twenties was Yeah. 176 00:14:59,686.94251688 --> 00:15:01,606.94251688 like, 'cause you know, people really settle in patterns. 177 00:15:01,606.94251688 --> 00:15:07,539.94251688 And I think, like, for me it was just always, I always feel like I'm starting, if that makes Yeah. 178 00:15:07,606.94251688 --> 00:15:09,106.94251688 feel like I'm at the beginning of something. 179 00:15:09,106.94251688 --> 00:15:12,916.94251688 And I don't know if that's probably a, and, but I'm a starter, so like, that's good energy for me. 180 00:15:13,336.94251688 --> 00:15:19,156.94251688 But, um, and, but like how that has, you know, arced over, I'm just happy I'm here. 181

00:15:19,456.94251688 --> 00:15:23,476.94251688 I'm happy to be breathing, I'm happy to be alive and able to do things. 182 00:15:23,476.94251688 --> 00:15:31,666.94251688 And I'm not like looking at myself like, why, why do you, why, why isn't your apartment bigger? Why can't you go settle down and chill out? And like, why do you feel like you have to chase something all the time? And it's like, no, that's not it. 183 00:15:31,666.94251688 --> 00:15:32,36.94251688 It's just like. 184 00:15:32,821.94251688 --> 00:15:36,901.94251688 Girl, you woke up and then you know, you, you ate your breakfast on time today. 185 00:15:37,44.94251688 --> 00:15:37,344.94251688 Right. 186 00:15:37,921.94251688 --> 00:15:40,621.94251688 You know, literally, 'cause like sometimes I don't eat and I'm like, oh crap. 187 00:15:40,651.94251688 --> 00:15:41,371.94251688 Now my whole day's. 188 00:15:41,461.94251688 --> 00:15:42,359.94251688 You know? Yeah. 189 00:15:42,421.94251688 --> 00:15:46,111.94251688 like you, it only took you an hour in the, in the bathroom to get ready instead. 190 00:15:46,111.94251688 --> 00:15:46,981.94251688 An hour and 15 minutes. 191 00:15:46,981.94251688 --> 00:15:47,479.94251688 I'm Yeah. 192 00:15:48,1.94251688 --> 00:15:48,571.94251688 wins. 193 00:15:48,751.94251688 --> 00:15:49,179.94251688 It's Yeah. 194 00:15:49,351.94251688 --> 00:15:50,844.94251688 where I'm at at this Yeah. 195 00:15:51,219.94251688 --> 00:16:07,629.94251688 You have to, you really have to, because a lot of times, like the world will make you feel like if you're not making these huge, grandiose, like these big accomplish accomplishments every week, girl, I can't talk, um, big accomplishments every week that like, you should have something to feel, yeah, you should have something to be ashamed of. 196 00:16:07,659.94251688 --> 00:16:09,159.94251688 And that's, it's truly not the case. 197 00:16:09,579.94251688 --> 00:16:15,789.94251688 Um, the small wins will set you up every time for, you know, God, a good week, a good month, a good year. 198 00:16:15,969.94251688 --> 00:16:18,819.94251688 A good year is, is, is, you know. 199 00:16:19,389.94251688 --> 00:16:23,919.94251688 Based on the small wins, there's only a few big things that happen every year when you look back. 200 00:16:24,61.94251688 --> 00:16:24,91.94251688 I. 201 00:16:24,279.94251688 --> 00:16:26,974.94251688 The smaller things that really, um, guide you. 202 00:16:27,106.94251688 --> 00:16:34,216.94251688 to, and to be fair, like, so my, this past year has just been, I think I was telling you a little bit before, just it's hard to explain. 203 00:16:34,366.94251688 --> 00:16:37,306.94251688 Like it's very surreal, all of it. 204 00:16:37,306.94251688 --> 00:16:52,186.9425169 Because literally, you know, at the beginning of the year I was entering into this space of like, I want to, you know, create community and I had the, the, the work that had what, like my practice and I

was like, well, maybe I can do the, like, reach out instead of up. 205 00:16:52,186.9425169 --> 00:16:52,396.9425169 Right. 206 00:16:52,396.9425169 --> 00:17:06,346.9425169 I think that's a such a great way to, to mention that I did, I reached out and up a little bit, and so, and then I got pulled up and I've just had a lot of opportunities and it's not been, you know, like I would say nothing has been glamorous at all. 207 00:17:06,766.9425169 --> 00:17:12,496.9425169 But me, I get so overwhelmed, like truly overwhelmed with like, what's happening around me. 208 00:17:12,496.9425169 --> 00:17:15,676.9425169 And if I think about it too much, I get like really emotional and I'm like, oh my God. 209 00:17:15,676.9425169 --> 00:17:19,599.9425169 Like, do I deserve this? Like, how, how am I, like how did I get here? Yes. 210 00:17:19,606.9425169 --> 00:17:30,76.9425169 that's where I like refocus a away from like all the noise of all that into literally like, oh my God, you know, literally breakfast with good. 211 00:17:30,76.9425169 --> 00:17:32,116.9425169 Okay, now I'm gonna go watch a couple tiktoks. 212 00:17:32,176.9425169 --> 00:17:33,826.9425169 Oh, champagne's doing icy makeup. 213 00:17:33,826.9425169 --> 00:17:34,546.9425169 Love that for her. 214 00:17:34,546.9425169 --> 00:17:35,669.9425169 Like, it's like I've, Yes. 215 00:17:36,466.9425169 --> 00:17:45,646.9425169 I've kept my people who were there, like who got, who, who made me feel accepted and loved. 216 00:17:45,646.9425169 --> 00:17:48,976.9425169 Like back, back, back when, before I even started all of this. 217 00:17:48,976.9425169 --> 00:17:51,586.9425169 Like those people, even if like I was, you know. 218 00:17:52,276.9425169 --> 00:17:53,626.9425169 They just make me feel comfortable. 219 00:17:53,994.9425169 --> 00:17:54,264.9425169 Yeah. 220 00:17:54,346.9425169 --> 00:18:04,156.9425169 like the, they're like stuffed animals in a way that I just, like all my hometown people, you know, because it, it starts to get a little bit like convoluted whenever you get in. 221 00:18:04,216.9425169 --> 00:18:11,446.9425169 A lot of, you know, these like more, you know, higher level situations and it's always, it ends up being about money or some sort of objective. 222 00:18:11,476.9425169 --> 00:18:12,94.9425169 It's yeah. 223 00:18:12,639.9425169 --> 00:18:17,769.9425169 Money or access, you know, it gets really, it gets really dicey and you, it's hard to discern. 224 00:18:18,129.9425169 --> 00:18:22,609.9425169 Um, discernment gets really hard the closer you move towards, um, you know. 225 00:18:23,861.9425169 --> 00:18:24,351.9425169 Success. 226 00:18:24,609.9425169 --> 00:18:25,119.9425169 Success. 227 00:18:25,541.9425169 --> 00:18:25,831.9425169 Yeah. 228 00:18:26,439.9425169 --> 00:18:27,459.9425169 Quiet as it's kept. 229 00:18:27,459.9425169 --> 00:18:28,119.9425169 It's hard. 230 00:18:28,119.9425169 --> 00:18:30,429.9425169 It's when they say it's lonely at the top, like, I get it. 231 00:18:30,669.9425169 --> 00:18:31,959.9425169 Mind you, I'm not at the top. 232 00:18:31,959.9425169 --> 00:18:46,924.9425169 I'm just saying, you know, I get what they mean because even like, you know, the successes that I've had, it's, it's really hard sometimes to meet new people and feel like, um, they're interested in me and not interested in Oh how I can help. 233 00:18:47,866.9425169 --> 00:18:48,466.9425169 correct. 234 00:18:48,556.9425169 --> 00:18:50,476.9425169 Or like what they can get out of you or something like that. 235 00:18:50,521.9425169 --> 00:18:51,304.9425169 It, it Yeah. 236 00:18:52,126.9425169 --> 00:18:59,956.9425169 I find myself being, like, I find myself going through exper like period experiences of like expansion and retraction and like structure building. 237 00:19:00,556.9425169 --> 00:19:05,909.9425169 And I feel like when, when I'm feeling expansive, the universe is very open Yeah. 238 00:19:05,956.9425169 --> 00:19:06,916.9425169 a lot of things happening. 239 00:19:06,916.9425169 --> 00:19:11,446.9425169 But then like we were talking about, you know, there's, it feels like a shift of late, like where things are like shifting. 240 00:19:11,926.9425169 --> 00:19:20,574.9425169 And I feel like as of in this moment, I'm now being more like, not be more insti, like internally structural, if that Yeah. 241 00:19:20,626.9425169 --> 00:19:27,616.9425169 I gotta focus that energy, keep quiet, like head down, grinding it out, you know, which space for both. 242 00:19:27,616.9425169 --> 00:19:34,419.9425169 I think, you know, for me it's just all about listening to the universe and or, you know, into like keeping myself open Yeah. 243 00:19:34,666.9425169 --> 00:19:40,96.9425169 what's in front of me and not pushing things and just responding as opposed to like. 244 00:19:41,371.9425169 --> 00:19:43,469.9425169 You know, begging or like, Yeah. 245 00:19:43,561.9425169 --> 00:19:44,71.9425169 sort of thing. 246 00:19:44,364.9425169 --> 00:19:44,634.9425169 Yeah. 247 00:19:44,971.9425169 --> 00:19:55,914.9425169 out with things that I don't really need, you know? Yeah, and I think a lot of that energy too that like kind of like nervous and worrying energy as creatives, it's good for us to like redirect that energy and like. 248 00:19:56,934.9425169 --> 00:20:09,324.9425169 Kind of manipulate it into the creative work, like into the work, right? Like before all that energy and all that, like pain or stress or anxiety and feeling into creating something that can be beautifully relatable to other people. 249 00:20:09,684.9425169 --> 00:20:14,364.9425169 And, um, I think that's a good segue into your book because I absolutely found it relatable. 250 00:20:14,754.9425169 --> 00:20:18,684.9425169 Um, so Sam, tell us a little bit about a year without touching you. 251 00:20:19,351.9425169 --> 00:20:21,391.9425169 So, uh, yes. 252 00:20:21,391.9425169 -->

00:20:25,501.9425169 So I found myself like a couple years ago. 253 00:20:25,501.9425169 --> 00:20:32,11.9425169 Um, like I finding a hard, finding it difficult to like place all of these myriad of interests I had. 254 00:20:32,11.9425169 --> 00:20:35,296.9425169 Like, I was like, I wanted to design, I was into writing, I was like music X, y, Z. 255 00:20:35,641.9425169 --> 00:20:38,221.9425169 So what's been for me, like. 256 00:20:39,31.9425169 --> 00:20:44,131.9425169 location has always been kind of, or my environment has always been reciprocal to like what I'm able to make. 257 00:20:44,131.9425169 --> 00:20:47,101.9425169 So when I was in college and I had a lot of space, I was doing a lot of photo shoots, whatever. 258 00:20:47,491.9425169 --> 00:20:49,441.9425169 Then when I moved abroad, I started designing. 259 00:20:49,441.9425169 --> 00:20:56,461.9425169 So like when I moved to New York, I was actually moving a lot, like around, and I was not really able to carry like all this equipment with me. 260 00:20:56,461.9425169 --> 00:21:03,631.9425169 So I started writing and then I found a through line, made the first book, and I didn't really think I was gonna do anything else about writing. 261 00:21:03,631.9425169 --> 00:21:04,351.9425169 I was like, okay, great. 262 00:21:04,351.9425169 --> 00:21:09,151.9425169 Like I did that one project, now I'm gonna do film or something like, you know, like, let's that. 263 00:21:09,151.9425169 --> 00:21:14,911.9425169 And so then I went through a really like breakup, uh, of a relationship. 264 00:21:15,541.9425169 --> 00:21:22,351.9425169 And it was kind of at the same time that like I was starting to get a, like recognized a little bit here in the city. 265 00:21:22,651.9425169 --> 00:21:29,521.9425169 So it was really weird because the, it was just like, there was a lot of good things happening and a lot of bad things happening. 266 00:21:29,761.9425169 --> 00:21:32,941.9425169 And I had like a divisive split of personality almost. 267 00:21:32,941.9425169 --> 00:21:33,841.9425169 And it was sort of like. 268 00:21:34,756.9425169 --> 00:21:40,216.9425169 like, the outside persona of what's happening is like, oh, like Sam is very well put together. 269 00:21:40,216.9425169 --> 00:21:43,276.9425169 He's so creative and he's like, fresh and dah, dah, dah, dah. 270 00:21:43,576.9425169 --> 00:21:49,6.9425169 But like, if you like, and then I come home and it's like, um, I feel like I, you, I have bad food habits. 271 00:21:49,6.9425169 --> 00:21:50,506.9425169 I literally can't sleep. 272 00:21:50,506.9425169 --> 00:21:52,426.9425169 I'm drinking, I'm eating, I'm smoking everything. 273 00:21:52,426.9425169 --> 00:21:56,656.9425169 Like I am fighting with my partner to the like nth degree. 274 00:21:56,656.9425169 --> 00:21:59,86.9425169 So it was just like this weird space. 275 00:21:59,146.9425169 --> 00:22:10,906.9425169 And then after the breakup I was like, oh my God, what

do I do? Like, I was literally like, what the fuck? I just started writing and I wrote from one, like around one month. 276 00:22:11,476.9425169 --> 00:22:29,446.9425169 And it was this cathartic process of placing and feelings in something that could hold them for me that I didn't have to carry it around with my, I didn't, I could not, I was not gonna be able to survive. 277 00:22:30,316.9425169 --> 00:22:33,226.9425169 Everything from, like, I was like in this, in that way. 278 00:22:33,226.9425169 --> 00:22:36,376.9425169 Like there was like no way that I was gonna be able to carry that around with me. 279 00:22:37,246.9425169 --> 00:22:40,246.9425169 I had also, like, my childhood was quite challenging as well. 280 00:22:40,246.9425169 --> 00:22:45,736.9425169 I mean, life has been very interesting for me, but like childhood specifically was challenging 'cause I didn't have a lot of agency over like, where I was. 281 00:22:45,736.9425169 --> 00:22:45,946.9425169 Right. 282 00:22:45,946.9425169 --> 00:22:47,776.9425169 So I was like experiencing that. 283 00:22:48,166.9425169 --> 00:22:56,956.9425169 So I mean on top of like, that trauma, like the, the vintage trauma on top of the new trauma, and we're gonna call it that. 284 00:22:57,144.9425169 --> 00:22:59,844.9425169 I'm exclusively referring to it as vintage trauma from now on. 285 00:22:59,844.9425169 --> 00:23:00,744.9425169 It's not childhood trauma. 286 00:23:00,864.9425169 --> 00:23:01,464.9425169 It's vintage. 287 00:23:01,486.9425169 --> 00:23:01,996.9425169 vintage. 288 00:23:02,26.9425169 --> 00:23:03,136.9425169 It's vintage at this point. 289 00:23:03,466.9425169 --> 00:23:17,679.9425169 But, you know, like that and, and this new thing, it really, um, it has really pushed me even, even today, like through this experience of how, like, how am I going to live a, a, a success, like a thriving life Yeah. 290 00:23:17,776.9425169 --> 00:23:21,256.9425169 with, um, with the circumstances I've been given. 291 00:23:21,256.9425169 --> 00:23:26,566.9425169 So like that's sort of, that was the basis of the writing Now. 292 00:23:27,391.9425169 --> 00:23:30,541.9425169 That, as you've seen, there are two parts to this book. 293 00:23:30,541.9425169 --> 00:23:38,251.9425169 There is the poetry, but then there is also this like split screen as I'm calling it, conversation on the right. 294 00:23:38,251.9425169 --> 00:23:41,551.9425169 And so that was really like, that's actually very internet for me. 295 00:23:41,551.9425169 --> 00:23:44,214.9425169 That was very like TikTok influenced because I would Yeah. 296 00:23:44,971.9425169 --> 00:23:46,321.9425169 what, what I thought was crazy. 297 00:23:46,321.9425169 --> 00:23:57,901.9425169 What I would see is like W which I mean this is just so indicative of like the, I mean, and I don't even see them anymore, so I don't know where they went, but it was like a very trend, but it would be like literally like kinetic sand videos with like C-SPAN videos. 298 00:23:58,404.9425169 --> 00:23:58,704.9425169 Yes. 299 00:23:58,801.9425169 --> 00:24:00,804.9425169 the most I like that though. 300 00:24:00,804.9425169 --> 00:24:12,414.9425169 I like the, so one of my favorite things, um, one of my favorite things about this book is the juxtaposition and the fact that it's a little bit disorienting, but I like that because that's what grief feels like. 301 00:24:12,504.9425169 --> 00:24:23,874.9425169 It feels like this, like outpouring and, and really truly, the book does feel like kind of you grieving through this, the end of this relationship and discovering that you're at the same time, just like you said. 302 00:24:24,409.9425169 --> 00:24:24,829.9425169 Mm-hmm. 303 00:24:25,869.9425169 --> 00:24:40,239.9425169 Rediscovering or discovering rather, a new identity, right? That's separate from this relationship and the person that you thought you were when you were in it and, and what that feels like, what that process feels like to both be grieving while also creating something new at the same time. 304 00:24:40,599.9425169 --> 00:24:44,809.9425169 And so, um, I think it's, I think it's really beautiful and it's, um, you know. 305 00:24:46,209.9425169 --> 00:24:48,669.9425169 It was very, very touching and very relatable to me. 306 00:24:49,359.9425169 --> 00:24:59,619.9425169 Um, as someone who's experienced immense grief, um, in a, in a season of my life where I was also trying to decide who I wanted to be and discover who I really was. 307 00:24:59,679.9425169 --> 00:25:05,229.9425169 Um, so I think, I think that was really, really interesting and very, very, very cool. 308 00:25:05,229.9425169 --> 00:25:10,329.9425169 A really good representation of what grief really feels like right there on the screen to be kind of like this. 309 00:25:10,644.9425169 --> 00:25:18,984.9425169 Barrage of emotion and very strong emotion and like this chat that seems almost like, I don't know it, I don't even know how to describe it. 310 00:25:18,984.9425169 --> 00:25:19,554.9425169 It's really cool. 311 00:25:19,704.9425169 --> 00:25:20,724.9425169 You can talk more about it. 312 00:25:21,196.9425169 --> 00:25:21,496.9425169 yeah. 313 00:25:21,496.9425169 --> 00:25:24,106.9425169 I mean, think, um. 314 00:25:24,931.9425169 --> 00:25:30,991.9425169 So the subtitle is, so the book is called, the Book was, or originally called A Year Without Fucking You. 315 00:25:31,51.9425169 --> 00:25:31,351.9425169 I'm not. 316 00:25:32,251.9425169 --> 00:25:33,811.9425169 And it was that for a long time. 317 00:25:33,811.9425169 --> 00:25:46,351.9425169 And it still to me is that, but I was just thinking like when, whenever I was, you know, told to promote it, I was like, oh my God, can you imagine this like 68-year-old man reading this book about like, somebody who's very close with that you, without fucking you, like over and over. 318 00:25:46,351.9425169 -->

00:25:58,741.9425169 So I was like, hang on, let's let, and not that I am an advocate for changing work in that way, but I just felt like, I felt like, you know, this is also a practice of creating space for other people because I personally can be quiet. 319 00:25:58,741.9425169 --> 00:26:05,41.9425169 Like I, I'm entertaining in an embracive way and like it takes a strong personality to like be able to roll with me. 320 00:26:05,41.9425169 --> 00:26:06,991.9425169 But other people appreciate the boldness. 321 00:26:06,991.9425169 --> 00:26:11,371.9425169 But I mean, in, in that sort of work, I think it, it, it should be tender but real. 322 00:26:11,671.9425169 --> 00:26:16,929.9425169 So the, the subtitle is eulogy, A Practicing Closure Yes. 323 00:26:16,951.9425169 --> 00:26:19,741.9425169 and, and that was like sort of. 324 00:26:20,761.9425169 --> 00:26:26,491.9425169 A way to frame the work as well, because it is, for me, it was like a poem beginning to end. 325 00:26:26,551.9425169 --> 00:26:30,781.9425169 It was sort of like, you know, it just felt like an argument. 326 00:26:30,931.9425169 --> 00:26:35,219.9425169 Like I was literally having a like, and I think I said like, this is a one-sided argument for a two-sided, Mm-hmm. 327 00:26:35,311.9425169 --> 00:26:36,91.9425169 situation. 328 00:26:36,269.9425169 --> 00:26:36,559.9425169 Yeah. 329 00:26:36,601.9425169 --> 00:26:39,631.9425169 And it is, and I want to acknowledge that from the very beginning. 330 00:26:39,631.9425169 --> 00:26:49,51.9425169 But I, the thing is I feel like sometimes personally I am quite expressive. 331 00:26:49,411.9425169 --> 00:26:55,419.9425169 And when you are expressive, people get intimidated and they don't want to give you the space to really let you express, Yes. 332 00:26:55,681.9425169 --> 00:27:01,501.9425169 if you know how to do it in a way that like being able to argue is a skill. 333 00:27:01,501.9425169 --> 00:27:04,441.9425169 And I'm not even saying that like is a positive or negative way. 334 00:27:04,446.9425169 --> 00:27:09,489.9425169 It just like, I had to argue, I mean, I had to, I grew up in an environment where I just learned how to learn how to argue Yeah. 335 00:27:10,81.9425169 --> 00:27:14,534.9425169 that's sort of like ingrained, right? So that's not everybody's tea, Mm-hmm. 336 00:27:14,611.9425169 --> 00:27:15,271.9425169 can tell you that. 337 00:27:15,271.9425169 --> 00:27:31,989.9425169 That's not, I mean, In summary, you had to pop your shit and you needed the space to pop your shit and be able to get it all out because just like you said, a lot of people are not comfortable with someone who is willing to kind of argue their points and point A, B, C, this is how I feel. 338 00:27:31,989.9425169 --> 00:27:32,679.9425169 This is what you did. 339 00:27:32,679.9425169 --> 00:27:33,669.9425169 This is how I felt about it. 340 00:27:33,669.9425169 --> 00:27:35,409.9425169 This is how I, a lot of people

feel. 341 00:27:35,469.9425169 --> 00:27:39,886.9425169 It's, a lot of people feel it's very confrontational or they feel like it's very aggressive Yeah. 342 00:27:40,59.9425169 --> 00:27:41,79.9425169 we tend to. 343 00:27:41,469.9425169 --> 00:27:46,719.9425169 Shrink and minimize ourselves and then you leave the conversation thinking, I didn't even tell you how I felt. 344 00:27:46,809.9425169 --> 00:27:48,609.9425169 I didn't even didn't like get it out. 345 00:27:48,909.9425169 --> 00:27:49,119.9425169 Mm-hmm. 346 00:27:49,156.9425169 --> 00:27:49,516.9425169 Yeah. 347 00:27:49,719.9425169 --> 00:27:50,19.9425169 Yeah. 348 00:27:50,19.9425169 --> 00:27:54,699.9425169 So I think that's beautiful that you have the, gave yourself the space to have that argument. 349 00:27:55,366.9425169 --> 00:28:01,216.9425169 And there, I think for me, it really did turn into a way of like putting. 350 00:28:02,101.9425169 --> 00:28:03,661.9425169 emotions in a thing. 351 00:28:03,721.9425169 --> 00:28:10,351.9425169 Like it was very much like this, like weird, not magical, but like this very mystical sort of spiritual experience of like possessing. 352 00:28:10,381.9425169 --> 00:28:14,191.9425169 And this is, this is, I mean, I sat on this book for, I wrote it two years ago. 353 00:28:14,431.9425169 --> 00:28:15,601.9425169 I sat on it for a year. 354 00:28:15,601.9425169 --> 00:28:22,231.9425169 I really wasn't gonna do anything about it because I didn't really feel proper to like talk about this thing. 355 00:28:22,561.9425169 --> 00:28:32,761.9425169 But, you know, and, but here's the thing, what I'm learning, okay, and this is about, just a personal journey I'm on, and I will say this, I'm really glad, like we talk about successes and things like that. 356 00:28:32,761.9425169 --> 00:28:40,21.9425169 I've had to reframe everything I thought about success because I am now in a very entertainment heavy world. 357 00:28:40,21.9425169 --> 00:28:47,401.9425169 And that sort of like success is like measured out by like followers, views, interactions, whatever, right? Really and money. 358 00:28:48,166.9425169 --> 00:28:53,236.9425169 But for me, I think about like, oh my God, this life I've had like this beautiful arc of life. 359 00:28:53,236.9425169 --> 00:28:59,356.9425169 I'm 30 and I've had so many interesting experiences like, and I don't really like to frame things in good or bad anymore. 360 00:28:59,356.9425169 --> 00:29:00,646.9425169 'cause that's such a binary. 361 00:29:00,829.9425169 --> 00:29:01,69.9425169 Yeah. 362 00:29:01,126.9425169 --> 00:29:02,836.9425169 had a good life, I've had a bad life, a good experience's. 363 00:29:02,986.9425169 --> 00:29:09,624.9425169 Like no, I've had formative experiences that have been positive, net and negative, net and very Yeah. 364 00:29:10,636.9425169 --> 00:29:26,389.9425169 And all of that has led me to kind of give up and let go of this control that I thought I needed and to embrace the spon, this the is feels spontaneity to me, Yeah. 365 00:29:26,806.9425169 --> 00:29:31,876.9425169 beautiful mastermind plan that the universe has for everybody and how we're all connected. 366 00:29:31,876.9425169 --> 00:29:37,606.9425169 And that's what's so crazy is like even this experience right now, there's a reason that we're linking up here this time, whatever. 367 00:29:37,794.9425169 --> 00:29:38,34.9425169 Yeah. 368 00:29:38,386.9425169 --> 00:29:41,386.9425169 for me is very different probably than the reason for you. 369 00:29:41,596.9425169 --> 00:29:44,926.9425169 But the thing is the universe knows that those things need to happen at this time. 370 00:29:44,926.9425169 --> 00:29:45,886.9425169 And it's sort of like. 371 00:29:46,621.9425169 --> 00:29:50,564.9425169 I don't trust that, then I have nothing because what the fuck am I doing? Yeah. 372 00:29:51,811.9425169 --> 00:30:02,941.9425169 and I think like that sort of conversation even comes out in, in more so in the a in, in the, in the like AI conversation than, than the other one. 373 00:30:02,941.9425169 --> 00:30:04,981.9425169 But I think there I the relate. 374 00:30:04,981.9425169 --> 00:30:09,541.9425169 So I did this, um, I did this installation like oh God, 10 years ago. 375 00:30:09,541.9425169 --> 00:30:10,261.9425169 It's been a long time. 376 00:30:10,711.9425169 --> 00:30:14,311.9425169 Um, but it was, it was for like this collective. 377 00:30:14,311.9425169 --> 00:30:19,981.9425169 I was back in when I was living in Athens, Georgia, I worked with a poet. 378 00:30:19,981.9425169 --> 00:30:26,641.9425169 This was before I started writing, but I worked with a poet and I had these, like, I created an environment like this, uh, vintage environment. 379 00:30:26,641.9425169 --> 00:30:34,441.9425169 I had this like, uh, fur rug and this really cool typewriter and it had these two TV screens and set, kind of set up like a living room, like a sort of like groovy living room. 380 00:30:35,341.9425169 --> 00:30:41,731.9425169 And then you were invited to, as the audience member, you were invited to come into the space and sort of experience like. 381 00:30:42,496.9425169 --> 00:30:44,86.9425169 Like to get comfortable in a space. 382 00:30:44,86.9425169 --> 00:30:59,41.9425169 And then there was these two TVs on each side, and then they were playing, um, Wait, one performing in this fucking vintage living room and people I wasn't, I was, I wasn't perform, it was like a, it was an installation, so it was, it was like set up in a house. 383 00:30:59,41.9425169 --> 00:30:59,671.9425169 We set up in a house. 384 00:30:59,671.9425169 --> 00:31:00,451.9425169 Everybody had a room. 385 00:31:00,624.9425169 --> 00:31:01,44.9425169 Oh, okay. 386 00:31:01,111.9425169 --> 00:31:04,531.9425169 had in one, and the room that I had was like, it was like two sided. 387 00:31:04,531.9425169 --> 00:31:07,81.9425169 There was like a bed on one side, and

this girl had set up these projections. 388 00:31:07,81.9425169 --> 00:31:07,861.9425169 It was really cool. 389 00:31:07,981.9425169 --> 00:31:09,601.9425169 And then there was like my area. 390 00:31:09,841.9425169 --> 00:31:17,551.9425169 And so, so if you were the, if you were the, you know, as an audience member, you come in and you are invited to sit on the rug and sort of like take a note. 391 00:31:17,551.9425169 --> 00:31:19,801.9425169 There's like, you know, comic books, there's a lamp. 392 00:31:19,801.9425169 --> 00:31:22,711.9425169 It's sort of like hanging out, listening to like a record type of deal. 393 00:31:22,711.9425169 --> 00:31:24,931.9425169 Like, like I just imagine very groovy times. 394 00:31:24,931.9425169 --> 00:31:25,201.9425169 Right. 395 00:31:25,474.9425169 --> 00:31:25,884.9425169 Yeah. 396 00:31:25,981.9425169 --> 00:31:31,111.9425169 the TVs, are these like really crazy? It is like nine one one phone calls and audio porn. 397 00:31:31,141.9425169 --> 00:31:31,501.9425169 Okay. 398 00:31:31,741.9425169 --> 00:31:35,11.9425169 And listen, I know it's like, it, it sounds crazy. 399 00:31:35,11.9425169 --> 00:31:41,461.9425169 And then it was in these, but it was in these sort of like, and then there was like contextualized with these like flashing words. 400 00:31:41,611.9425169 --> 00:31:46,201.9425169 So all of a sudden you're like, it's a little bit disjointed unless you saw it. 401 00:31:46,201.9425169 --> 00:31:49,501.9425169 But like, it's about of like. 402 00:31:50,176.9425169 --> 00:32:05,214.9425169 mean, the whole point of it was like, how much do you control of your emotions when people are screaming at you and things don't make sense? And actually, Uh, are you creating from those sensory experiences that are not really real, yeah. 403 00:32:05,446.9425169 --> 00:32:09,214.9425169 you're connecting those things in your mind and then it's reflecting back And thought. 404 00:32:09,434.9425169 --> 00:32:14,889.9425169 And And know what? I had a similar experience to that, um, in basic training in the Army. 405 00:32:15,399.9425169 --> 00:32:25,899.9425169 It's like how much of your emotions do you really control when you are deprived of like sleep and you're hungry and you're physically like, like worn out and someone's screaming in your face. 406 00:32:26,229.9425169 --> 00:32:29,499.9425169 Um, yeah, the sensory overload, that is wild. 407 00:32:29,499.9425169 --> 00:32:30,639.9425169 But yeah, that's. 408 00:32:30,924.9425169 --> 00:32:33,559.9425169 I'm, As I'm, I think it's very, yeah. 409 00:32:33,669.9425169 --> 00:32:33,959.9425169 Yeah. 410 00:32:34,119.9425169 --> 00:32:47,424.9425169 I would that It's very effective though, and I, I think people, you know, I, for me it was like I had a lot of, I, now I would probably do that a little bit differently and maybe a little bit more like tight with a bow, but I mean, I think there's time and space, right? Is at that yeah. 411

00:32:47,446.9425169 --> 00:32:48,346.9425169 life I was like. 412 00:32:49,351.9425169 --> 00:32:54,661.9425169 I'm gonna do everything that you like, you, you guys must understand that I'm here to make a statement. 413 00:32:54,661.9425169 --> 00:32:56,371.9425169 That was sort of like the, the mentality. 414 00:32:56,701.9425169 --> 00:33:02,684.9425169 And with this book, I've, I've exited that mentality of wanting to be so outwardly loud, Mm-hmm. 415 00:33:02,881.9425169 --> 00:33:15,764.9425169 I'm really focusing on like, style and like, and attributing to like, you know, like ta like, uh, not talent, but just like a sort of like elevated, and practiced Mm-hmm. 416 00:33:16,171.9425169 --> 00:33:18,721.9425169 um, how to be experimental within that. 417 00:33:18,721.9425169 --> 00:33:19,514.9425169 So, Yeah. 418 00:33:20,371.9425169 --> 00:33:34,561.9425169 I think the, the poem itself feels to me just like an, a cathartic argument and the AI conversation happening is sort of like. 419 00:33:34,786.9425169 --> 00:33:35,836.9425169 I don't know. 420 00:33:35,836.9425169 --> 00:33:36,166.9425169 It's weird. 421 00:33:36,166.9425169 --> 00:33:45,166.9425169 'cause you can like look at the book and it'll like, you'll just like a title might, like, maybe baby might flash out like the title and then you look over and you're like, oh, he's talking about killing everybody for world peace. 422 00:33:45,346.9425169 --> 00:33:49,786.9425169 How fucking weird is that? But like, what does that even mean? It doesn't really mean anything. 423 00:33:49,786.9425169 --> 00:33:51,346.9425169 They're just happening simultaneously. 424 00:33:51,346.9425169 --> 00:33:56,866.9425169 But like, you as the audience are like, it's like setting up walls. 425 00:33:56,866.9425169 --> 00:34:01,486.9425169 Like you're kind of, and, and not in a boundary way, but just in a way of like setting, setting up space. 426 00:34:01,486.9425169 --> 00:34:06,496.9425169 And it's like you're invited to play in the space if you want to. 427 00:34:06,496.9425169 --> 00:34:07,426.9425169 I mean, it's not easy. 428 00:34:07,426.9425169 --> 00:34:08,416.9425169 This is not an easy work. 429 00:34:08,416.9425169 --> 00:34:21,706.9425169 Like, and I now, the more that I talk about it with other people and have their experience on it, and I'm like, well damn, like I have a lot of actual, um, I didn't recognize the responsibility that I have as a maker. 430 00:34:21,706.9425169 --> 00:34:26,746.9425169 If I'm gonna make something like this and challenge people with this sort of thing, I need to understand that. 431 00:34:26,746.9425169 --> 00:34:29,956.9425169 Like, that's actually the intention, a part that's a part of what I'm doing. 432 00:34:30,676.9425169 --> 00:34:34,156.9425169 this is also been a, a learning environment about how to like. 433 00:34:35,551.9425169 --> 00:34:42,244.9425169 Be conscious about who's interacting with your work and like what are you

actually eliciting from them, honestly? Yeah. 434 00:34:42,244.9425169 --> 00:34:50,799.9425169 I think, um, too, when you're talking about putting everything in, in like in rooms or, you know, boxes rather, not really putting them in a box, to me it feels. 435 00:34:51,459.9425169 --> 00:34:57,519.9425169 Akin to the feeling of like compartmentalizing, right? The way that we compartmentalize when we're experiencing significant trauma. 436 00:34:57,519.9425169 --> 00:35:07,749.9425169 And a lot of times loss of like, you know, a really important relationship or, you know, in our life or grief or whatever can cause us to, to have that same reaction. 437 00:35:08,49.9425169 --> 00:35:15,129.9425169 Um, because it is traumatic in a lot of ways and it, we do compartmentalize a lot of our feelings and repress them and, you know, maybe we will. 438 00:35:16,119.9425169 --> 00:35:22,59.9425169 While something else simultaneously is going on in the background, which is why I think that AI conversation is, is like so poignant. 439 00:35:22,59.9425169 --> 00:35:23,799.9425169 'cause it's like there's something else. 440 00:35:23,799.9425169 --> 00:35:30,39.9425169 There could be something crazy fucking going on, on, on this other side of your mind, but you are thinking about I lost this person. 441 00:35:30,969.9425169 --> 00:35:37,569.9425169 Are you, did someone else? Are you, you know, do you, do you remember? Do you, did you feel, were you there? Like I was there. 442 00:35:37,569.9425169 --> 00:35:43,734.9425169 Were you in it? Like you was in it? that's you're having that while you're, while also the world is on fire, just so. 443 00:35:44,411.9425169 --> 00:35:45,406.9425169 By, by the way. 444 00:35:45,406.9425169 --> 00:35:46,66.9425169 Exactly. 445 00:35:46,104.9425169 --> 00:35:46,464.9425169 Yeah. 446 00:35:46,464.9425169 --> 00:35:50,454.9425169 And they're, they're very competing emotions and, um, yeah. 447 00:35:50,544.9425169 --> 00:35:52,74.9425169 I, I, I think it's beautiful. 448 00:35:52,756.9425169 --> 00:35:53,206.9425169 Thank you. 449 00:35:54,196.9425169 --> 00:36:12,616.9425169 um, for me, you know, I would look at it more like an, a piece of artwork in the sense that it's sort of, it's not meant, I don't feel like it's meant to be, um, a part of like story of like pulling things at a time. 450 00:36:12,616.9425169 --> 00:36:13,199.9425169 Like this Yeah. 451 00:36:13,246.9425169 --> 00:36:13,426.9425169 much. 452 00:36:14,71.9425169 --> 00:36:15,871.9425169 Like its own encapsulated event. 453 00:36:15,901.9425169 --> 00:36:24,271.9425169 Like this is a movie in its own way, right? It's like I'm gonna go sit and experience, and that's what I like about, I mean, and I'm very musically influenced. 454 00:36:24,271.9425169 --> 00:36:25,621.9425169 I don't write music. 455 00:36:25,621.9425169 --> 00:36:29,11.9425169 I think because I, I, I believe that I'm just supposed to simply enjoy it. 456 00:36:29,11.9425169 --> 00:36:31,981.9425169 And I feel like for me, I'm one of those people who I have an interest, I want to get into it. 457 00:36:31,981.9425169 --> 00:36:37,734.9425169 And then it totally like everything, like all the glamor and excitement and the mystery around I don't wanna ruin. 458 00:36:37,771.9425169 --> 00:36:38,281.9425169 ruined it. 459 00:36:38,461.9425169 --> 00:36:38,881.9425169 Yeah. 460 00:36:38,911.9425169 --> 00:36:40,351.9425169 Literally now I've ruined it for myself. 461 00:36:41,11.9425169 --> 00:36:47,191.9425169 So for me, um, just in a personal way, it's like fun to explore that even. 462 00:36:47,191.9425169 --> 00:36:53,11.9425169 But like, and, and after writing this, I think I'm like, I wanna write something happy later. 463 00:36:53,41.9425169 --> 00:36:55,741.9425169 You know? 'cause like I'm like, I in the book. 464 00:36:56,701.9425169 --> 00:36:59,191.9425169 And then even in the book, I'm like, I, I feel like. 465 00:37:00,271.9425169 --> 00:37:02,11.9425169 Honestly, this is crazy. 466 00:37:02,11.9425169 --> 00:37:10,921.9425169 I'm just having, I'm even having therapy right now with you, but I'm like thinking about like, there's a poem and it says, uh, you know, or it's dried blood and it's like, that's the title, you know, it's like, I don't want to make anything. 467 00:37:11,11.9425169 --> 00:37:12,594.9425169 I don't wanna make grotesque any things Yes. 468 00:37:12,631.9425169 --> 00:37:14,281.9425169 I wanna like work in Beau Beauty. 469 00:37:16,891.9425169 --> 00:37:49,741.9425169 honestly, I, I didn't, I was ashamed of myself in such a way for a long time that I had gone through the things that I had gone through and I had allowed the things that I had gone through to affect me in a way, like a physical way, a mental way, all this stuff, right? I think I like, and you can even read it in the book, like I read and I'm, and I am, I'm aware, but I was critically aware and I was focusing, and I would think I was taking a lot of the blame for the relationship breaking down in the book too, in its own way. 470 00:37:49,741.9425169 --> 00:37:54,451.9425169 It's like, I hate you because I wanted this so bad and you didn't do it and you didn't love me enough. 471 00:37:54,481.9425169 --> 00:37:56,251.9425169 You didn't love me through my crazy enough to. 472 00:37:57,616.9425169 --> 00:37:58,246.9425169 Help me. 473 00:37:58,404.9425169 --> 00:37:59,266.9425169 I wanna, save me. 474 00:37:59,574.9425169 --> 00:38:12,774.9425169 I wanna talk about that really quickly because I, I feel so, and, and maybe this is similar to what you were talking about, how, you know, we are both here at this moment in time and in these stages of our, in both of our lives for, for a reason. 475 00:38:12,774.9425169 --> 00:38:13,134.9425169 Right. 476 00:38:13,404.9425169 --> 00:38:23,424.9425169 And, um, there may be different reasons, but I, one thing that really has been sitting with me

since you've been talking about the work is, um, how similar our stories are in terms of, um. 477 00:38:23,934.9425169 --> 00:38:26,124.9425169 You know, writing our, our own respective books. 478 00:38:26,274.9425169 --> 00:38:29,724.9425169 So my book, same I wrote, it was like, I'm never gonna push this out. 479 00:38:29,724.9425169 --> 00:38:33,744.9425169 Sat on it for two years, then kind of pussyfoot it around, like promoting it. 480 00:38:34,14.9425169 --> 00:38:40,14.9425169 It also had a different title and I changed it because I was like, I don't think this is gonna be well received. 481 00:38:40,344.9425169 --> 00:38:43,464.9425169 Um, you know, there's so many parallels and, um. 482 00:38:44,289.9425169 --> 00:38:46,119.9425169 Especially with taking the brunt of it. 483 00:38:46,659.9425169 --> 00:38:56,409.9425169 I, it's hard for me to go back and read my book because I read it through not the eyes of the person who has experienced everything in the book, but I'm reading it as the version of me that wrote it. 484 00:38:56,826.9425169 --> 00:38:57,116.9425169 Yeah. 485 00:38:57,256.9425169 --> 00:38:57,956.9425169 Oh, completely. 486 00:38:58,239.9425169 --> 00:39:00,279.9425169 And I'm, and I'm reading it and I'm thinking, oh, poor baby. 487 00:39:00,279.9425169 --> 00:39:03,266.9425169 You're taking, you're like, you're owning so much of this, Mm-hmm. 488 00:39:03,279.9425169 --> 00:39:05,439.9425169 you know? And so much of it wasn't yours to own. 489 00:39:05,439.9425169 --> 00:39:12,159.9425169 So now rereading it now is, it can be very, it can be very emotional, but Yeah, your point, um. 490 00:39:13,314.9425169 --> 00:39:20,334.9425169 There's a, i I, I don't know if you would call it, I know you said, um, in the book to you, it's like one big poem, but there's, I'll say there's section. 491 00:39:20,701.9425169 --> 00:39:20,881.9425169 Yeah. 492 00:39:20,881.9425169 --> 00:39:24,151.9425169 There's po there's like, there's individual poems in a longer story. 493 00:39:24,234.9425169 --> 00:39:24,534.9425169 Yes. 494 00:39:24,534.9425169 --> 00:39:32,101.9425169 So the individual poem that I like the most, my favorite, wrote it down, I don't know if I'm pronouncing this correctly, LA Cage Labo LA Cage Labo Yeah. 495 00:39:32,281.9425169 --> 00:39:32,761.9425169 Love it. 496 00:39:33,264.9425169 --> 00:39:33,654.9425169 Okay. 497 00:39:33,954.9425169 --> 00:39:41,514.9425169 The, the part, the repetitive part that, that kept, you know, coming out to me, if you really knew me, you'd know this was never about you. 498 00:39:41,994.9425169 --> 00:39:50,49.9425169 And this to me speaks so much to, um, the experience of knowingly, but. 499 00:39:51,9.9425169 --> 00:39:55,389.9425169 Unable to stop your trauma from leaking into your other relationships. 500 00:39:55,389.9425169 --> 00:39:56,739.9425169 Like this isn't really about you. 501 00:39:56,949.9425169 --> 00:40:01,29.9425169 This is about something

else that I'm, that I'm grappling with, that I have unresolved. 502 00:40:01,299.9425169 --> 00:40:03,159.9425169 And, but, but you're supposed to save me from this. 503 00:40:03,159.9425169 --> 00:40:04,119.9425169 You're supposed to help me. 504 00:40:04,119.9425169 --> 00:40:05,49.9425169 You're supposed to fix this. 505 00:40:05,49.9425169 --> 00:40:06,939.9425169 You loving me was supposed to fix this. 506 00:40:07,269.9425169 --> 00:40:09,489.9425169 And it kind of like leaking out in that way. 507 00:40:09,819.9425169 --> 00:40:12,549.9425169 Um, and it was just so damn relatable. 508 00:40:12,549.9425169 --> 00:40:14,859.9425169 And I was like, this is the saddest, most beautiful thing I've ever read. 509 00:40:16,611.9425169 --> 00:40:17,979.9425169 It is, Because yeah. 510 00:40:18,76.9425169 --> 00:40:18,496.9425169 it is kind. 511 00:40:18,646.9425169 --> 00:40:18,976.9425169 Yeah. 512 00:40:18,976.9425169 --> 00:40:25,186.9425169 And I feel like the way for me, it, I don't want to be so sad all the damn time. 513 00:40:25,246.9425169 --> 00:40:34,96.9425169 Okay, so let me also, I know it, it, it is, I was just talking to my friend about this too, not too long ago, and I was like, yeah, I was listening to Beck. 514 00:40:34,216.9425169 --> 00:40:35,9.9425169 I don't, you Yeah. 515 00:40:36,256.9425169 --> 00:40:39,151.9425169 Beck is awesome, but he's very much, I would say that like we're. 516 00:40:39,811.9425169 --> 00:40:41,159.9425169 I appreciate Yeah. 517 00:40:41,611.9425169 --> 00:40:48,211.9425169 on life and the way that he, like talks about his life through his artwork, but he communicates a lot of struggle through his work. 518 00:40:48,211.9425169 --> 00:40:48,601.9425169 Right. 519 00:40:48,901.9425169 --> 00:40:51,871.9425169 And then there's other artists that I like that are contemporary makers. 520 00:40:51,871.9425169 --> 00:41:06,871.9425169 And if you listen to their albums across, you know, their, their collective artistry, narratives are like in time different, right? 'cause it's like, okay, you know, mod, it's a modern version, but like, truly like, it's sort of in the same vein. 521 00:41:06,871.9425169 --> 00:41:11,41.9425169 Like, it's like they get inspired by challenge and then they like work through this like human struggle. 522 00:41:11,41.9425169 --> 00:41:17,191.9425169 And it's like, these are like people who have mythologized themselves to help us as an audience understand human struggle. 523 00:41:17,581.9425169 --> 00:41:21,109.9425169 And then there's like Ariana Grande or Katie Perry Yeah. 524 00:41:21,571.9425169 --> 00:41:22,201.9425169 love Ariana Grande. 525 00:41:22,201.9425169 --> 00:41:25,171.9425169 I think Ariana's a lot more open and candid about her own experience. 526 00:41:25,171.9425169 --> 00:41:29,759.9425169 But I'm just saying like, Tate McCrae, right? Like, I'm not looking and, and I love that she can dance and back flip Yeah. 527 00:41:30,211.9425169 --> 00:41:34,159.9425169 all that, but I just feel like her songs are like fun Yeah. 528 00:41:34,171.9425169 --> 00:41:37,891.9425169 meant to be like pop and, and, um, for me. 529 00:41:38,461.9425169 --> 00:41:48,1.9425169 I was talking to my friend, I'm like, is this how I'm gonna write? Always like, is this, is this like, okay, Beck Row, you know his first album when he was like in his early twenties, right? Yeah, Similar. 530 00:41:48,1.9425169 --> 00:41:50,461.9425169 And then his most recent one, he's like 40 or 50 now. 531 00:41:50,641.9425169 --> 00:41:51,541.9425169 Similar shit. 532 00:41:51,541.9425169 --> 00:41:53,701.9425169 I mean it, he's still going damn through it. 533 00:41:53,701.9425169 --> 00:42:01,749.9425169 And I'm like, damn it like is shit, but you know what? Sometimes we're just more effective at connecting with people. 534 00:42:01,861.9425169 --> 00:42:02,161.9425169 it. 535 00:42:02,439.9425169 --> 00:42:11,229.9425169 Uh, connecting on a pain level because maybe we're just better at describing or embodying or showing up, creating something that's really representative of that. 536 00:42:11,229.9425169 --> 00:42:13,171.9425169 Like maybe that's just our gift. 537 00:42:13,539.9425169 --> 00:42:13,809.9425169 Yeah. 538 00:42:13,869.9425169 --> 00:42:14,889.9425169 Maybe that's our gift. 539 00:42:14,889.9425169 --> 00:42:21,129.9425169 Being able, and I get that feedback a lot that's like, oh my gosh, like when you talk about your trauma, I'm like, bitch, I want to be a beauty. 540 00:42:21,539.9425169 --> 00:42:29,969.9425169 Influencer, like I wanted to just do makeup and be very like, like, bitch, I was trying to be Jackie Ina, like, I was not trying to be on here, you know, anybody's therapist. 541 00:42:29,969.9425169 --> 00:42:40,996.9425169 But the way that I spoke about my trauma connected and I think our gifts sometimes choose us and we don't really get, we like, we So, oh, um, yes, yes. 542 00:42:40,996.9425169 --> 00:42:49,246.9425169 And to that, I, listen, I don't, I don't, I'm gonna reference lightly here, but there's another, there's a, another pop star, not Lady Gaga that I like a lot. 543 00:42:49,246.9425169 --> 00:42:53,716.9425169 And I was watching one of her interviews and I, I pop, culture is like very forefront for me. 544 00:42:53,716.9425169 --> 00:42:54,544.9425169 That's just like Yeah. 545 00:42:54,586.9425169 --> 00:42:54,826.9425169 up. 546 00:42:56,24.9425169 --> 00:42:58,216.9425169 The BM, yeah. 547 00:42:58,216.9425169 --> 00:42:59,769.9425169 I love the eighties, yes. 548 00:42:59,776.9425169 --> 00:43:01,426.9425169 all that, like very much that vibe. 549 00:43:01,456.9425169 --> 00:43:10,126.9425169 And for me, what I've always read, like the, the singers who were real, like the pop people who were real, I was led to music. 550 00:43:10,126.9425169 --> 00:43:16,726.9425169 So this is like intersectional, right? But like those people

who would talk about like, you know, don't give, like, believe in yourself, never give up, like keep going. 551 00:43:17,56.9425169 --> 00:43:22,66.9425169 Those people I always resonate with, with, because I was like, I, I need, I this, I need this to keep going. 552 00:43:22,66.9425169 --> 00:43:22,824.9425169 Like, this Yeah. 553 00:43:22,846.9425169 --> 00:43:26,244.9425169 appropriate, right? So like, Madonna is what I'm talking about, Yeah. 554 00:43:26,626.9425169 --> 00:43:32,626.9425169 talks about, she was like her contemporaries, like Michael Jackson and um, prince, she was saying comparatively. 555 00:43:32,986.9425169 --> 00:43:38,969.9425169 She understood at some point that she was not the owner of her creativity, but she was the manager Yes. 556 00:43:39,46.9425169 --> 00:43:39,646.9425169 Right. 557 00:43:39,976.9425169 --> 00:43:42,736.9425169 And I was like, damn, Madonna, you really came through with that shit. 558 00:43:42,736.9425169 --> 00:43:51,459.9425169 And she was saying like, Michael Jackson and Prince as talented and like culture shifting and everything else that they were, they kind Mm. 559 00:43:51,496.9425169 --> 00:43:57,706.9425169 wrapped up in their own enigma and they thought they were God instead of that we were all God. 560 00:43:57,706.9425169 --> 00:43:57,916.9425169 Right. 561 00:43:57,916.9425169 --> 00:44:03,384.9425169 I'm paraphrasing that point, but what just the, to say that like, that's very much how I feel Mm-hmm. 562 00:44:04,636.9425169 --> 00:44:15,856.9425169 I mean, I feel like I just have a real, I'm blessed to see things in a way that other people don't see them, but I don't really feel like I can claim of it. 563 00:44:15,916.9425169 --> 00:44:17,386.9425169 I just feel like I'm a conduit. 564 00:44:17,386.9425169 --> 00:44:24,989.9425169 Like that book, like the, the month it took me to write that book, it was literally me just like being completely open and feeling everything Yeah. 565 00:44:25,36.9425169 --> 00:44:31,696.9425169 allowing the muses or the universe, whoever, to like literally speak through me and like wash all of that. 566 00:44:32,521.9425169 --> 00:44:35,851.9425169 Like pain and make something productive out of it. 567 00:44:35,851.9425169 --> 00:44:36,369.9425169 And Yeah. 568 00:44:36,421.9425169 --> 00:44:46,291.9425169 of the day, like, I didn't expect people, I did not, I don't know, I just like, I've always, I, when I was making work at the beginning, I was like, I wanna make, make, make, make, make. 569 00:44:46,291.9425169 --> 00:44:47,941.9425169 And I want people to love, love, love, love, love. 570 00:44:47,941.9425169 --> 00:44:48,661.9425169 And I need that. 571 00:44:48,661.9425169 --> 00:44:50,191.9425169 Like, I need people to see me. 572 00:44:50,251.9425169 --> 00:44:50,971.9425169 Please see me. 573 00:44:50,971.9425169 --> 00:44:52,854.9425169 'cause I was never seen, you know, like Yeah. 574 00:44:53,71.9425169 --> 00:44:54,841.9425169 didn't see me, nobody fucking saw me. 575 00:44:54,849.9425169 --> 00:44:55,139.9425169 Yeah. 576 00:44:55,141.9425169 --> 00:45:01,81.9425169 And I was like, if I do something spectacular, if I get all these good grades, if I'm in every single club, they'll want me didn't work. 577 00:45:01,261.9425169 --> 00:45:02,851.9425169 If I do this, this and this, they'll want me. 578 00:45:02,851.9425169 --> 00:45:08,581.9425169 If I'm crazy, if I grow my hair out, if I look insane, if I like try to be this thing, they want me, it doesn't matter. 579 00:45:08,581.9425169 --> 00:45:13,321.9425169 That, and, and, and maybe some people do, but that's my, that was me framing it incorrectly. 580 00:45:13,321.9425169 --> 00:45:14,461.9425169 It wasn't even about that. 581 00:45:14,671.9425169 --> 00:45:17,41.9425169 It's about the wor, it's about the journey of making. 582 00:45:17,251.9425169 --> 00:45:20,761.9425169 And so when I finally got to accept that and I was like, I'm just gonna do me and make for me. 583 00:45:21,511.9425169 --> 00:45:24,781.9425169 I did that for a while, and then it was a joy to share. 584 00:45:24,781.9425169 --> 00:45:26,281.9425169 It was like, oh, I'll just give it to my friends. 585 00:45:26,281.9425169 --> 00:45:26,941.9425169 Like, ooh, my friend. 586 00:45:26,971.9425169 --> 00:45:29,401.9425169 Like, Hey, I made this book, do you wanna read it? That sort of thing. 587 00:45:29,461.9425169 --> 00:45:29,971.9425169 And then. 588 00:45:30,781.9425169 --> 00:45:48,594.9425169 But now that there's been some, but this practice has, it's like there's space between me, you and I know each other very well, so it's not necessarily like one-to-one, but like I've been working with some other creative people and trying to get some projects going and I've just been sharing the work just so they have reference, you know, Yeah. 589 00:45:50,71.9425169 --> 00:45:51,661.9425169 the, them being able to connect to the work. 590 00:45:51,661.9425169 --> 00:45:53,731.9425169 I was like, oh, okay. 591 00:45:53,821.9425169 --> 00:45:58,139.9425169 You know, it started to kind of, it, it takes a life beyond itself Yeah. 592 00:45:58,171.9425169 --> 00:45:59,791.9425169 know exactly who that works about. 593 00:45:59,791.9425169 --> 00:46:01,771.9425169 And I mean, if you know me, you know who the work's about. 594 00:46:01,771.9425169 --> 00:46:12,271.9425169 And you know, I talked to my ex and told him that, you know, I was like, Hey look, I'm gonna start talking about this like publicly And Yeah, you know, and he was quite supportive and he was like, you know, do what you gotta do. 595 00:46:12,271.9425169 --> 00:46:13,501.9425169 And like, I hope him success. 596 00:46:13,501.9425169 --> 00:46:14,209.9425169 So yeah. 597 00:46:14,634.9425169 --> 00:46:17,694.9425169 Do you feel like that's part of, do you feel like that. 598 00:46:18,699.9425169 --> 00:46:26,319.9425169 Creating this work and like,

like you said, the process of this being very cathartic, which I relate to as well. 599 00:46:26,349.9425169 --> 00:46:34,479.9425169 'cause I felt the same writing my book and it does feel like a wash of, um, you know, you are kind of allowing the weight of. 600 00:46:35,19.9425169 --> 00:46:44,859.9425169 All the emotions that you feel to kind of wash over you and that release of that, um, is its own gift, its own benefit, right. 601 00:46:44,889.9425169 --> 00:46:47,709.9425169 As opposed to trying to be seen, like you were saying. 602 00:46:48,129.9425169 --> 00:46:59,799.9425169 Do you feel like the process of like creating this book and writing and getting all of that out, do you feel like that was the most beneficial part of like grieving the end of that relationship or. 603 00:47:01,306.9425169 --> 00:47:01,816.9425169 yeah. 604 00:47:01,816.9425169 --> 00:47:06,796.9425169 I, my, so my relationship with death specifically has sort of been. 605 00:47:08,251.9425169 --> 00:47:15,961.9425169 Like a little bit unconventional because my mother, when she was 14, had a brother who was 18 who passed away in a car accident like tragically. 606 00:47:16,771.9425169 --> 00:47:22,51.9425169 my mom, who's already anxious, acquired a lot of anxiety obviously from that experience. 607 00:47:22,51.9425169 --> 00:47:27,91.9425169 So I grew up in this sort of like awareness of death constantly. 608 00:47:27,414.9425169 --> 00:47:27,744.9425169 Okay. 609 00:47:27,781.9425169 --> 00:47:31,831.9425169 then, if that makes sense, like being very aware that people, like people could die at any minute. 610 00:47:31,861.9425169 --> 00:47:34,711.9425169 Like, yeah, so like, and my brother's the same way. 611 00:47:34,711.9425169 --> 00:47:38,791.9425169 We're just very sort of like, not desensitized to it, but just aware of it. 612 00:47:38,791.9425169 --> 00:47:41,881.9425169 And then we've had a lot of family members pass away, you know, like that sort of thing. 613 00:47:41,881.9425169 --> 00:47:45,31.9425169 I've never had an extremely, like directly close family members pass away. 614 00:47:45,31.9425169 --> 00:48:01,621.9425169 So that experience is not something I could speak to directly, but just sort of like, you know, like my grandfather, like he killed himself very randomly and that was sort of like, what the fuck? Right? Like, and it was just sort of, seeing other people sort of like react. 615 00:48:01,621.9425169 --> 00:48:02,521.9425169 So. 616 00:48:03,766.9425169 --> 00:48:05,896.9425169 Differently than you, like, I don't know how to explain it. 617 00:48:05,896.9425169 --> 00:48:06,744.9425169 Just like the Yes. 618 00:48:06,826.9425169 --> 00:48:07,854.9425169 Like, you know, like Yes. 619 00:48:08,206.9425169 --> 00:48:11,56.9425169 and grief, I was always sort of like, oh my god. 620 00:48:11,514.9425169 --> 00:48:11,784.9425169 Yeah. 621 00:48:12,676.9425169 --> 00:48:26,356.9425169 and kind of was there to be supportive, but it, I don't know, it was just always like, okay, like this is not, like, I knew I didn't expect him to go this way, but I always know that it's gonna end and it's sort of like, yeah. 622 00:48:26,356.9425169 --> 00:48:27,766.9425169 And it's sort of like, okay. 623 00:48:27,766.9425169 --> 00:48:28,374.9425169 Like, Yeah. 624 00:48:28,696.9425169 --> 00:48:36,286.9425169 it's not necessarily, and then my very strong belief in like the, you know, universal planning and like this like connection that we all have. 625 00:48:36,706.9425169 --> 00:48:39,526.9425169 I mean, personally I don't believe that death is the final answer. 626 00:48:39,526.9425169 --> 00:48:46,186.9425169 I think that there is a lot that we don't even know or need to know that we are here to experience what we're here to experience and that we move on to something else. 627 00:48:46,186.9425169 --> 00:49:01,956.9425169 And like that as tragic as things are in certain ways that like things happen the way that they should happen, we're not meant to know, you know? And, and, and that's probably easier for me to say than other people, and I understand and appreciate everyone's perspective and I don't fault anybody for how they feel. 628 00:49:02,506.9425169 --> 00:49:05,731.9425169 This situation to me was a spirit. 629 00:49:05,731.9425169 --> 00:49:15,301.9425169 It was a very different type of thing because I think, again, my identity was so much wrapped up in my relationship and my mom was like, it's gonna feel like a death. 630 00:49:15,654.9425169 --> 00:49:16,44.9425169 Yeah. 631 00:49:16,351.9425169 --> 00:49:17,41.9425169 I don't know. 632 00:49:17,461.9425169 --> 00:49:21,631.9425169 And I think in the poem I was like, I didn't ever expect to experience death. 633 00:49:21,631.9425169 --> 00:49:22,409.9425169 So real Yeah. 634 00:49:22,681.9425169 --> 00:49:29,431.9425169 So real in the sense of like, of all, I'm disgusted at myself that I'm even this upset about a breakup one. 635 00:49:29,439.9425169 --> 00:49:29,739.9425169 Yeah. 636 00:49:29,911.9425169 --> 00:49:32,709.9425169 I'm, I'm judging myself You're like, actually this isn't cute. 637 00:49:32,709.9425169 --> 00:49:35,191.9425169 This is not, no two. 638 00:49:35,191.9425169 --> 00:49:37,119.9425169 How dare I even not be devastated. 639 00:49:37,394.9425169 --> 00:49:37,684.9425169 Yeah. 640 00:49:37,741.9425169 --> 00:49:40,44.9425169 Yeah, but like people lose their husbands Yeah. 641 00:49:40,291.9425169 --> 00:49:41,191.9425169 partners all the time. 642 00:49:41,191.9425169 --> 00:49:42,241.9425169 And my just got a breakup. 643 00:49:42,241.9425169 --> 00:49:43,21.9425169 Everyone goes through a breakup. 644 00:49:43,21.9425169 --> 00:49:45,901.9425169 Like there's so many things of like, and that self-judgment. 645 00:49:45,901.9425169 --> 00:49:50,11.9425169 And then I think in this experience, I was like, I'm not gonna judge myself. 646 00:49:50,109.9425169

--> 00:49:50,439.9425169 Yeah. 647 00:49:50,581.9425169 --> 00:49:53,701.9425169 gonna write it all the fuck out and whatever happens, happens. 648 00:49:54,121.9425169 --> 00:50:05,41.9425169 And then it was sort of like taking care of those emotions I think a lot to you in the book, there's a lot of like reference to emotional penance and spiritual penance. 649 00:50:05,41.9425169 --> 00:50:06,901.9425169 Right? And like paying for like things. 650 00:50:06,901.9425169 --> 00:50:19,654.9425169 And for me, I started to realize how my own, um, mental blocks or blocking me from blessings Yeah. 651 00:50:19,681.9425169 --> 00:50:24,841.9425169 and bl and mental blocks where, and like I, you know, I've heard the concept of reoccurring blessings. 652 00:50:24,841.9425169 --> 00:50:30,451.9425169 Like when things are meant for you, they'll come around and if they, if you miss them the first time, they'll orbit back around when they're meant to. 653 00:50:30,451.9425169 --> 00:50:50,131.9425169 Right? And so, like, in that way, and, you know, I don't mean to be so religious and spiritual, but I kind of am in the sense that like, I think that like, you know, in that way, like the universe, God, whomever, this benevolent being prepares you for things in ways and wait and, and is patient and will give it to you when you need it. 654 00:50:50,191.9425169 --> 00:50:51,601.9425169 And if you never get there, you never get there. 655 00:50:51,601.9425169 --> 00:50:56,11.9425169 But like when you get there, you get there, you know? Yeah, I think for me it started to make sense of like. 656 00:50:57,106.9425169 --> 00:50:57,436.9425169 Okay. 657 00:50:57,436.9425169 --> 00:50:58,906.9425169 You, you did, yeah. 658 00:50:58,906.9425169 --> 00:51:02,176.9425169 You did therapy during COVID Girl, everybody did therapy during COVID. 659 00:51:02,176.9425169 --> 00:51:02,806.9425169 That was great. 660 00:51:02,806.9425169 --> 00:51:05,769.9425169 And like, and I did learn language yeah, yeah. 661 00:51:05,806.9425169 --> 00:51:07,689.9425169 Thank you Blue Cross Blue Shield for Right. 662 00:51:07,936.9425169 --> 00:51:08,836.9425169 as you should have. 663 00:51:08,836.9425169 --> 00:51:09,886.9425169 Like, hell yeah. 664 00:51:09,946.9425169 --> 00:51:10,966.9425169 I'm gonna take care of that. 665 00:51:10,966.9425169 --> 00:51:11,746.9425169 Tele hell yeah. 666 00:51:11,746.9425169 --> 00:51:12,346.9425169 Hit me up. 667 00:51:12,766.9425169 --> 00:51:21,144.9425169 You know, and I started to like that it therapy for me was more validating than it was like liberating, if Yeah, It I think the same. 668 00:51:21,144.9425169 --> 00:51:37,644.9425169 I had a very similar experience because therapy for me was, um, I, I think what we share, um, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think what we share is that we are, um, this like innate ability to intellectualize our experiences rather than experience them. 669 00:51:37,884.9425169 --> 00:51:41,244.9425169 So I could be like, oh yeah, I'm feeling shame, I'm feeling this, I'm feeling that. 670 00:51:41,244.9425169 --> 00:51:42,864.9425169 And to have a therapist be like, are you. 671 00:51:43,699.9425169 --> 00:51:54,204.9425169 Are you feeling good? Are you feeling anything because it doesn't seem like you're feeling? And, um, to kind of validate me in that space as well, to say like, the things that you're talking about that you experienced are not normal. 672 00:51:54,414.9425169 --> 00:52:00,264.9425169 And that was the first time that I was able to feel validated that like, thank you for saying that. 673 00:52:00,264.9425169 --> 00:52:01,284.9425169 Yeah, that wasn't normal. 674 00:52:01,344.9425169 --> 00:52:04,434.9425169 And I think a lot of times the validation is the piece that we're missing. 675 00:52:04,434.9425169 --> 00:52:05,214.9425169 Not so much the. 676 00:52:05,754.9425169 --> 00:52:12,264.9425169 We, we are very innately aware of like, how things are impacting us, even if it's subconscious to some extent. 677 00:52:12,264.9425169 --> 00:52:20,544.9425169 Like we, we are aware, um, having someone validate you is so important, especially when you grow up in an environment where you're not validated as a child. 678 00:52:20,964.9425169 --> 00:52:22,284.9425169 Um, yeah. 679 00:52:22,351.9425169 --> 00:52:33,511.9425169 up in survivalism and, and like, like, once I got into middle school and things like that, it really did turn into like and weaving and, and getting along to get along. 680 00:52:33,654.9425169 --> 00:52:34,134.9425169 Yeah. 681 00:52:35,401.9425169 --> 00:52:42,481.9425169 you know, I mean, the thing is, I guess one day maybe I'll talk about like, everything, you know, from like that perspective, I just feel like it's a lot of shit. 682 00:52:42,481.9425169 --> 00:52:52,741.9425169 Like, I mean, honestly, like, it's sort of like, there is a lot of, for me, like people are like, why don't you ever talk about your parents? And it's like, okay, I have a great relationship with my mother and my father, like at this point. 683 00:52:54,166.9425169 --> 00:52:58,809.9425169 And there's not shame around the history, but there's like, it's uncomfortable Yeah. 684 00:52:59,56.9425169 --> 00:53:02,529.9425169 me to share it because other people get uncomfortable if that makes Yes. 685 00:53:02,626.9425169 --> 00:53:04,696.9425169 Like, oh my God. 686 00:53:04,696.9425169 --> 00:53:05,956.9425169 And I was like, I'm sorry. 687 00:53:06,664.9425169 --> 00:53:07,966.9425169 People sorry. 688 00:53:08,19.9425169 --> 00:53:09,429.9425169 uncomfortable for you. 689 00:53:09,429.9425169 --> 00:53:12,369.9425169 Like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you said, listen. 690 00:53:12,791.9425169 --> 00:53:15,729.9425169 It is what it is, You have to and you have to. 691 00:53:15,789.9425169 --> 00:53:22,389.9425169 You have to at to some extent, you know, I just turned 35 last month and move thank

you. 692 00:53:22,599.9425169 --> 00:53:26,49.9425169 And I came to the realization like at some point like. 693 00:53:26,604.9425169 --> 00:53:33,624.9425169 I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be a 40-year-old living in shame and unable to speak my truth because I'm worried about how it might impact other people. 694 00:53:33,624.9425169 --> 00:53:36,894.9425169 I'm not gonna give you a trigger warning for my truth, like I just can't at this point. 695 00:53:37,104.9425169 --> 00:53:38,184.9425169 Like girl, just. 696 00:53:38,326.9425169 --> 00:53:39,256.9425169 time for that shit. 697 00:53:39,256.9425169 --> 00:53:43,246.9425169 It's who it's, and it's not who you are, but it's a part of your story. 698 00:53:43,486.9425169 --> 00:53:50,296.9425169 And I think it's like, and, and to be fair, I mean this is not easy like to come on in a public forum and talk about. 699 00:53:50,686.9425169 --> 00:54:03,796.9425169 Uncomfortable things, and then actually to create language that is protective of yourself as the owner and the person who experiences those stories, but also like as a creator and maker in whatever fashion that looks like, to be able to share your experience. 700 00:54:03,796.9425169 --> 00:54:13,6.9425169 I mean, that's what I think that I, my unintentional consequence of this whole entire like, experience thus far. 701 00:54:13,6.9425169 --> 00:54:24,199.9425169 And it hasn't, this is, I'm at the very beginning of a lot of this too, but it's just been, I guess I've been, I didn't know that I was brave to like write this Yeah. 702 00:54:24,316.9425169 --> 00:54:25,96.9425169 put this out. 703 00:54:25,306.9425169 --> 00:54:26,626.9425169 I didn't realize that. 704 00:54:26,746.9425169 --> 00:54:28,696.9425169 I just felt like it needed to happen. 705 00:54:28,696.9425169 --> 00:54:31,36.9425169 And I was like, well, I'm a maker, so like this, I'm an artist. 706 00:54:31,36.9425169 --> 00:54:32,116.9425169 Like this makes sense. 707 00:54:32,116.9425169 --> 00:54:33,984.9425169 Like this is the flow, Mm-hmm. 708 00:54:34,246.9425169 --> 00:54:43,786.9425169 But like, yeah, I mean, some of 'em just was telling me, you know, or I had a friend who read it and they were like, you're just like really brave to be so candid and. 709 00:54:44,581.9425169 --> 00:55:01,921.9425169 cool that you like and, and within that space of like the specific instances, 'cause there's a lot of specifics, right? And there's sort of like, where are these places and who the hell are these people? Right? But it gives you a, like a gi I think it's supposed to speak to like, I mean everything's like, you know, up to artistic interpretation. 710 00:55:01,921.9425169 --> 00:55:04,291.9425169 Everything's inspired by, you know, real events. 711 00:55:04,291.9425169 --> 00:55:12,181.9425169 But like the way that things are strung together obviously are more about how I want to tell the story than it is about Yeah, exactly. 712 00:55:12,181.9425169 -->

00:55:37,411.9425169 So like in this world, you might not know these characters, but like the emotional ups and downs and like the serotonin boosts of like, oh my god, like meeting new people, going new places, like whatever, sharing experiences, loving each other, not loving each other, you know, wanting to be with somebody and you know, I mean like for example, I think it's easy for me to. 713 00:55:39,196.9425169 --> 00:55:48,196.9425169 Talk about the more difficult things, and actually it is for me to talk about like the easy, like the fun, like for me to like beautify the small things like I was telling you about, like the day-to-day sort of thing. 714 00:55:48,444.9425169 --> 00:55:48,804.9425169 Yeah. 715 00:55:49,156.9425169 --> 00:55:57,849.9425169 my challenge because I can sit here and create statues around misgivings that life has presented me Mm-hmm. 716 00:55:58,276.9425169 --> 00:56:14,294.9425169 because I understand, been so conscious of my behavior around other people, that I understand how those experiences contribute to me being who I am without really just giving context of every single thing else around those experiences that are also contributing to who I am as a Yeah. 717 00:56:14,299.9425169 --> 00:56:23,86.9425169 Yeah, instead of feeling like I have to apologize for like, you know, being bullied for my whole entire, you know, life in middle school and high school. 718 00:56:23,234.9425169 --> 00:56:24,241.9425169 yeah, yeah, Like, you know. 719 00:56:24,699.9425169 --> 00:56:25,89.9425169 yeah. 720 00:56:25,329.9425169 --> 00:56:27,729.9425169 And I think for us too, um. 721 00:56:28,479.9425169 --> 00:56:50,439.9425169 And certainly I think in, in your journey and like the things that you've been able to accomplish and the successes that you've had, I think that it, it speaks volumes that you've chosen to like make a concerted effort to count the small blessings because it's important to, to find those bits of happiness because we are so good at identifying and. 722 00:56:51,279.9425169 --> 00:57:07,359.9425169 Um, giving life to, giving context, to giving words to even like the pain that we can become too encompassed in the pain, right? Like, it's really easy to fall and, and sometimes even like, that's a comfortable space to be in. 723 00:57:07,359.9425169 --> 00:57:08,926.9425169 Like the dark, comfortable. 724 00:57:09,399.9425169 --> 00:57:18,939.9425169 sad, like the depre, like, there's almost a sort of like romanticizing that I, I've even fallen into of like romanticizing like depression and being like, oh, I'm so. 725 00:57:18,946.9425169 --> 00:57:27,549.9425169 something's happened to me Oh, it's, I feel better feeling sad and like, and that is, that is a, um, a powerful coping mechanism. 726 00:57:27,549.9425169 --> 00:57:28,629.9425169 It's why a lot of people drink. 727 00:57:28,629.9425169 --> 00:57:35,239.9425169 It's why a lot of people, you know, because that sadness can sometimes feel

like warmth when that's all you've been around, when all you've been surrounded with is. 728 00:57:35,251.9425169 --> 00:57:36,549.9425169 that's familiar, Trauma. 729 00:57:36,721.9425169 --> 00:57:45,339.9425169 It's like, and it's comfortable to, to feel sad and to feel even to some extent, unwanted and feel lonely that loneliness is familiar. 730 00:57:45,339.9425169 --> 00:57:55,616.9425169 If you were lonely your whole childhood, and so now it feels good to feel lonely, you know, even though you don't want it, you know? false validation because it's like, I knew I was right the whole time. 731 00:57:56,934.9425169 --> 00:57:58,134.9425169 Yep, yep, yep. 732 00:57:58,404.9425169 --> 00:57:58,644.9425169 Yeah. 733 00:57:58,644.9425169 --> 00:57:59,844.9425169 It's confirmation bias. 734 00:58:00,204.9425169 --> 00:58:01,136.9425169 That's Oh sure. 735 00:58:01,434.9425169 --> 00:58:02,364.9425169 confirmation bias. 736 00:58:02,364.9425169 --> 00:58:12,414.9425169 And we, we do that because it feels it's uncomfortable for not only is it uncomfortable for us to allow ourselves to experience happiness or, you know, good things. 737 00:58:12,654.9425169 --> 00:58:21,714.9425169 There's also, um, I've noticed too with that shame, coupled with that shame is like this feeling of, like you spoke to earlier, do I deserve. 738 00:58:22,494.9425169 --> 00:58:34,734.9425169 Do I, I'm seeking penance, you know, like I, I, I have to, I have to, um, this is karma, this experience that I'm having, right? We're trying to, um, analyze it and, you know, make up whatever we need to make up to make it make sense. 739 00:58:35,4.9425169 --> 00:58:43,854.9425169 And, um, a lot of times it just, there's a perspective shift that has to happen that to allow ourselves to experience the good and that we're deserving of that too. 740 00:58:44,34.9425169 --> 00:58:51,594.9425169 Even though we're so comfortable in the dark, that sometimes we can, we can also experience the light even if we have to create it ourselves. 741 00:58:52,396.9425169 --> 00:58:53,476.9425169 very much so. 742 00:58:53,476.9425169 --> 00:59:24,496.9425169 And I think that's sort of like my mentality shift has been like, yeah, I mean, I do carry a lot of darkness and in me, you know, and, it feels in some ways it, like, because I think when, when you're a kid and you go through experiences maybe as opposed to like an adult who made bad decisions and things like that, but like when you're a kid, you feel like, or I felt for example, like not a victim, but like a victim because I didn't choose to be in these situations that I was in, and I just had to like figure it the fuck out. 743 00:59:24,496.9425169 --> 00:59:28,186.9425169 And I was like, why doesn't anybody care? Like people are not paying attention, whatever. 744 00:59:28,186.9425169 --> 00:59:29,716.9425169 Right? And so like. 745 00:59:30,496.9425169 --> 00:59:35,446.9425169 In a way it turns into like, I can act like this because I had to deal with it. 746 00:59:35,654.9425169 --> 00:59:35,904.9425169 Yeah. 747 00:59:35,956.9425169 --> 00:59:38,896.9425169 it turns into this like, oh, it doesn't matter because this happened to me. 748 00:59:38,896.9425169 --> 00:59:40,19.9425169 Like I didn't Yeah. 749 00:59:40,239.9425169 --> 00:59:40,659.9425169 Mm-hmm. 750 00:59:40,756.9425169 --> 00:59:49,396.9425169 I'm just gonna be like this bitch for a little bit because, or I'm gonna be an asshole because I guess what, like, or I get really overstimulated and somebody yelled at me on the subway and that took me back to when I was a kid. 751 00:59:49,396.9425169 --> 01:00:06,736.9425169 And I like, and, and it really gave me this like thing, you know? And so there's this for me and, and to the romanticism part of that, that, I mean, I think that's just like, people think that trauma creates complexities, but actually it's not, it's an opportunity for growth. 752 01:00:06,736.9425169 --> 01:00:25,464.9425169 And the people I think that are like the most, um, well reformed I feel after they go through really, really traumatic experiences are the people who don't allow, who will give themselves space, but like, don't allow that to be, their calling card, you Yeah. 753 01:00:25,516.9425169 --> 01:00:27,796.9425169 like, and create positive or create. 754 01:00:28,546.9425169 --> 01:00:37,449.9425169 Like use their survival methods that they've learned to then share with other people, you know? Or, or, and it doesn't have to be like on a big, it could be one-to-one, Yeah. 755 01:00:37,456.9425169 --> 01:00:40,36.9425169 be a testimony in church, it could be at dinner. 756 01:00:40,366.9425169 --> 01:00:44,896.9425169 It could be you feeling something in your heart and being like, that's not right, I need to go help them. 757 01:00:44,986.9425169 --> 01:00:54,656.9425169 Or, you know what I'm saying? Like using those, this is the thing too, I think, you know, it's like a scale, like everything is relative to your experience. 758 01:00:54,676.9425169 --> 01:01:08,326.9425169 But I feel like the, thing is like you can either use those experiences to break away, isolate and shame, or you can actually, for me, I'm like, wow, I went through that. 759 01:01:08,326.9425169 --> 01:01:18,669.9425169 I'm proud of myself for like coming out on the other side of that and now I'm so much stronger to actually like be here for somebody else Yeah, and it really is a calling to be able to do that. 760 01:01:18,669.9425169 --> 01:01:22,539.9425169 Like you said, like even if it's just one-to-one, what I've realized is like. 761 01:01:23,589.9425169 --> 01:01:27,459.9425169 A lot of times people will survive things or they'll experience things and come out of it. 762 01:01:27,819.9425169 --> 01:01:32,971.9425169 And the kneejerk reaction, especially in today's like, you know, online Yeah. 763 01:01:33,69.9425169 --> 01:01:37,239.9425169 environment is to not talk about it

and pretend it didn't happen. 764 01:01:37,239.9425169 --> 01:01:48,54.9425169 And like, we're only showing highlight reels, but you know, your experience, even if it only helps one person feel seen and feel like understood, then it's. 765 01:01:48,804.9425169 --> 01:02:08,184.9425169 It's worth it to be able to, and you don't even, like you said, it doesn't have to be on a big stage, but if you see someone struggling or if you, you know, if there's a way that you could share, like you said, a testimony or something like that, you know, everybody's own individual experience is so helpful for others to navigate their own lives. 766 01:02:08,394.9425169 --> 01:02:14,634.9425169 You know, I think that we don't give ourselves enough credit for, uh, how important sharing our stories are too. 767 01:02:15,9.9425169 --> 01:02:15,759.9425169 To others. 768 01:02:15,999.9425169 --> 01:02:36,634.9425169 If, if I had heard someone talking about going through some of the things that I had experienced, if I heard someone being vocal about it or wrote a book about it or, or something like that, um, that was unashamed and that was talking about it as plainly, and, you know, I think that that probably would've made a, a huge impact on me as, you know, a kid, as a teen in my twenties, whatever, you know. 769 01:02:37,636.9425169 --> 01:02:49,366.9425169 I, I mean the thing is like to that point, you know, a lot of community I found as a young gay person in the South were from people who were like the, it gets better campaign. 770 01:02:49,366.9425169 --> 01:02:50,356.9425169 I don't know if you remember that. 771 01:02:50,504.9425169 --> 01:02:50,794.9425169 Yeah. 772 01:02:50,866.9425169 --> 01:02:53,326.9425169 was really com That was very impactful for me. 773 01:02:53,354.9425169 --> 01:02:53,774.9425169 Mm-hmm. 774 01:02:53,776.9425169 --> 01:02:57,886.9425169 And thankfully, you know, I mean, I don't know what it's like to be a teenager now. 775 01:02:57,886.9425169 --> 01:02:59,296.9425169 I can't even imagine. 776 01:02:59,416.9425169 --> 01:03:01,576.9425169 'cause it's like, everything's like advanced. 777 01:03:01,576.9425169 --> 01:03:04,66.9425169 Like when I was a teenager it was all like, kind of new. 778 01:03:04,66.9425169 --> 01:03:05,716.9425169 So you just sort of like, it was like MySpace. 779 01:03:05,716.9425169 --> 01:03:06,764.9425169 You make your yeah. 780 01:03:06,946.9425169 --> 01:03:07,666.9425169 situation. 781 01:03:07,666.9425169 --> 01:03:09,706.9425169 Everything's so advanced and like targeted now. 782 01:03:09,706.9425169 --> 01:03:16,786.9425169 Like who the fuck knows? But you know, I think, um, yeah, just like those sort of, uh. 783 01:03:18,211.9425169 --> 01:03:22,921.9425169 It's not, it's a, it's, I, my friend said this to me the other day that maybe it was so impactful to me. 784 01:03:22,921.9425169 --> 01:03:25,51.9425169 'cause I was like, I don't like to talk about my issues a lot. 785 01:03:25,81.9425169 --> 01:03:31,531.9425169 Not issues, but just like, I don't like to like harp on the things that I have, uh, like frustrations about or whatever. 786 01:03:31,561.9425169 --> 01:03:34,771.9425169 'cause I like to again, be like and quiet. 787 01:03:34,771.9425169 --> 01:03:44,629.9425169 And also I understand like, I'm in a privileged position where I'm at, so I just need, or I don't need to, but like, I don't wanna complain because it's like I'm the, I don't wanna bring morale down around me, right? Yes. 788 01:03:45,271.9425169 --> 01:03:50,251.9425169 compartmentalization and I don't know if it's a good, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but I'm really, really good at it. 789 01:03:50,251.9425169 --> 01:03:58,561.9425169 And it's helped me sort of survive and, and, but it, and protect myself and create space and like allow things to not be so personal for me or something like that. 790 01:03:58,561.9425169 --> 01:03:58,741.9425169 Right. 791 01:03:58,741.9425169 --> 01:04:08,71.9425169 I mean, and I don't know if that's a good word, compartmentalization, but just like I'm learning to like literally create space between like the world and me. 792 01:04:08,401.9425169 --> 01:04:10,381.9425169 Like I, I need some, I need. 793 01:04:11,221.9425169 --> 01:04:14,484.9425169 To be okay because I'm judging myself by the world standards of Yep. 794 01:04:14,521.9425169 --> 01:04:15,451.9425169 I think I should be doing. 795 01:04:15,451.9425169 --> 01:04:21,189.9425169 And I'm like, you know what? You brush your teeth you have to, I, it's so important to stop doing that. 796 01:04:21,189.9425169 --> 01:04:23,349.9425169 I do that so much. 797 01:04:23,349.9425169 --> 01:04:29,79.9425169 I, I've had to like step away, um, even from like, just my phone in general, because I find myself. 798 01:04:29,844.9425169 --> 01:04:35,934.9425169 Comparing myself to others when, like, I have no idea what their, their upbringing was. 799 01:04:35,934.9425169 --> 01:04:37,794.9425169 Like, what things they had to navigate. 800 01:04:38,394.9425169 --> 01:04:44,934.9425169 Like, you know what I mean? Like, and, and not to say, I mean, they could have for all I know, they could have had it worse off than me, but you know, they could have had, they could. 801 01:04:47,101.9425169 --> 01:04:47,371.9425169 Yeah. 802 01:04:49,816.9425169 --> 01:05:05,416.9425169 I, yeah, I. 803 01:05:22,681.9425169 --> 01:05:40,21.9425169 Yeah, well, oh yeah. 804 01:05:44,941.9425169 --> 01:05:45,331.9425169 Oh my God. 805 01:05:45,331.9425169 --> 01:06:01,501.9425169 The noise is beyond, it's like, it's so, yeah, I mean, and like to even circle back to mentorship and things like that, like my, the thing that I've always wanted, which is like weird because I mean, I am an artist and I do like want, like to be, I mean, or I always did. 806 01:06:01,501.9425169 --> 01:06:05,341.9425169 I think now it's a little bit different because

it's like I've gotten some sort of like. 807 01:06:06,256.9425169 --> 01:06:19,246.9425169 Ex like validity and exposure and it didn't really respond like, I didn't like get this like that I thought I was gonna get, it was sort of like, okay, now what? You know? So I was like, maybe this isn't the end all, be all of what, you know, like I'm still hungry, so like, maybe this isn't it. 808 01:06:19,246.9425169 --> 01:06:34,426.9425169 But I would say, um, you know, I have had to realize that like what happens for me will happen for me and like, and, and if I feel it, it will probably happen. 809 01:06:34,426.9425169 --> 01:06:36,976.9425169 Right? Like things that I felt up until this point they've happened. 810 01:06:36,976.9425169 --> 01:06:38,926.9425169 It does not happen Exactly when or how. 811 01:06:39,616.9425169 --> 01:06:43,516.9425169 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 812 01:06:43,636.9425169 --> 01:06:44,236.9425169 Correct. 813 01:06:45,346.9425169 --> 01:06:45,706.9425169 Yeah. 814 01:06:45,706.9425169 --> 01:07:02,686.9425169 And I don't know when or if or how, but I feel like, you know, this is the, this is the direction, you know, but the being able to like help other people make their own thing and not really like, or like, you know, creating space for other, other creatives or like just talking or like being present. 815 01:07:02,686.9425169 --> 01:07:03,286.9425169 Literally just showing. 816 01:07:03,736.9425169 --> 01:07:22,996.9425169 And being available and present for other creatives has been way like a lot more rewarding because, I mean, I think of myself, like, if I'm gonna be a maker in this world, then I need to like help other people allow, like, like make, you know. 817 01:07:22,996.9425169 --> 01:07:28,756.9425169 And I really do believe that like cr, like creativity and making is an act of spirituality. 818 01:07:28,756.9425169 --> 01:07:30,256.9425169 And I think it connects us all. 819 01:07:30,886.9425169 --> 01:07:44,56.9425169 And you know, I mean not, you don't have to go write a book to deal with your grief, but I think art in general, whether it's planning plants or like, you know, here, here's really the thing. 820 01:07:44,56.9425169 --> 01:07:48,646.9425169 It's like we've lived as humans for a long time on this earth. 821 01:07:48,646.9425169 --> 01:07:53,206.9425169 Not really, I mean relatively, actually not, but we've been around as a species for some time. 822 01:07:53,641.9425169 --> 01:07:56,191.9425169 Language that we have has not always been around. 823 01:07:56,191.9425169 --> 01:08:01,951.9425169 And it's so diverse amongst different cultures and like contextual, you know, context and things like that. 824 01:08:01,951.9425169 --> 01:08:03,721.9425169 Like language is a, is a fallacy. 825 01:08:04,81.9425169 --> 01:08:07,441.9425169 Which is funny 'cause I'm a writer, but I do know that like, language is absolutely a fallacy. 826 01:08:08,101.9425169 --> 01:08:18,571.9425169 But I think we

can like all sort of collectively understand that there are things that happen beyond us and we have power that we don't necessarily see. 827 01:08:18,571.9425169 --> 01:08:21,571.9425169 And like emotions and vibrations and energies are real like these. 828 01:08:21,901.9425169 --> 01:08:26,551.9425169 And the thing is, the modern world wants to take that away from you because they wanna sell you something. 829 01:08:26,821.9425169 --> 01:08:31,111.9425169 But like, but it has always existed and it cannot be taken away. 830 01:08:31,111.9425169 --> 01:08:32,461.9425169 And there's this song by Buffy St. 831 01:08:32,461.9425169 --> 01:08:33,991.9425169 Marie called Magic is Afoot. 832 01:08:33,991.9425169 --> 01:08:34,891.9425169 God is Alive. 833 01:08:35,41.9425169 --> 01:08:38,341.9425169 And it's the weirdest freaking like Halloween ass song you'll ever hear. 834 01:08:38,341.9425169 --> 01:08:42,1.9425169 It's kind of spooky and witchy, but it's just real. 835 01:08:42,1.9425169 --> 01:08:45,1.9425169 It's like, and and the, the way that they, they like, they tried to kill magic. 836 01:08:45,1.9425169 --> 01:08:46,51.9425169 They tried to kill God. 837 01:08:46,51.9425169 --> 01:08:47,11.9425169 They couldn't kill magic. 838 01:08:47,11.9425169 --> 01:08:47,731.9425169 Like, that's whole thing. 839 01:08:47,731.9425169 --> 01:08:49,441.9425169 And, and I don't think that like. 840 01:08:49,756.9425169 --> 01:09:01,396.9425169 Witches are out here on brooms, which if they are hala, but I think that there is an ex, I mean, whatever, I'm not here to make enemies with witches, but like, you know what I'm saying, like more power to them. 841 01:09:01,786.9425169 --> 01:09:12,946.9425169 But I mean, I think we all do have this innate ability to like pull from experience and to like put things like to evoke and then to like place, you know, like this is beyond, beyond time. 842 01:09:13,96.9425169 --> 01:09:15,466.9425169 Humans have always had these experiences. 843 01:09:15,466.9425169 --> 01:09:33,796.9425169 So for me it's sort of like tapping into this like, not arcane knowledge, but just sort of like this interconnectedness that we have like from now beyond different time zones or, or, or sorry, like timelines even like beyond, like thousands of years ago, we're connected to something that. 844 01:09:34,351.9425169 --> 01:09:43,621.9425169 Gives us like creativity, whether you wanna call it the Holy Spirit, whether you wanna call it the universe, like tap in, like open yourself up to that and allow yourself to be an agent. 845 01:09:43,861.9425169 --> 01:09:53,821.9425169 And, and, and for me to like, use my experiences as the coloring for the, the voice of the muse, if that makes, like, this is all really like dramatic, but I'm being serious. 846 01:09:53,821.9425169 --> 01:09:54,151.9425169 I mean. 847 01:09:54,751.9425169 --> 01:10:00,271.9425169 I, I don't really wanna sit and talk about my divorce and my hus ex-husband for like months and months and months and months. 848 01:10:00,331.9425169 --> 01:10:04,801.9425169 But like, I might be doing that for the next year because guess what? I decided to write a damn book. 849 01:10:05,11.9425169 --> 01:10:17,401.9425169 And it's my duty as the, the manager of my creativity to say, okay, thank you universe for giving me these wonderful like, insights and like the energy to make the book and the, and the emotional wherewithal to get through this. 850 01:10:17,701.9425169 --> 01:10:18,31.9425169 Okay. 851 01:10:18,31.9425169 --> 01:10:27,181.9425169 Now it's my ass's job to go out there and go, Hey, like, do you see Cardi B when she was like selling her album and she had like, she was like, that's what I'm saying. 852 01:10:39,151.9425169 --> 01:10:39,631.9425169 Yes. 853 01:10:58,951.9425169 --> 01:10:59,221.9425169 Yeah. 854 01:11:08,851.9425169 --> 01:11:09,211.9425169 Yeah. 855 01:11:15,931.9425169 --> 01:11:16,321.9425169 Right. 856 01:11:37,321.9425169 --> 01:11:45,1.9425169 Yeah, that's so, yes, that, that is my, my entire, that has completely reframed, even as a maker or, and like an artist, I'm like, I feel so selfish. 857 01:11:45,1.9425169 --> 01:11:46,261.9425169 'cause I think I focus on myself a lot. 858 01:11:46,741.9425169 --> 01:11:55,111.9425169 But no, I'm gonna say this experience, having other people spend time with the work and saying, thank you for doing this. 859 01:11:55,111.9425169 --> 01:11:58,981.9425169 I really actually was able to relate to this a lot and find myself in this. 860 01:11:59,41.9425169 --> 01:12:01,21.9425169 And also, it's a, I mean, I'm not gonna toot my own horn. 861 01:12:01,21.9425169 --> 01:12:03,931.9425169 It's not like some fucking like Shakespeare bullshit ass. 862 01:12:03,931.9425169 --> 01:12:06,571.9425169 Like, I mean, not Shakespeare bullshit, but it's not boring. 863 01:12:06,721.9425169 --> 01:12:09,661.9425169 It's a cool fuck Shakespeare, whoever. 864 01:12:09,691.9425169 --> 01:12:10,501.9425169 Fucking misogynist. 865 01:12:10,891.9425169 --> 01:12:13,801.9425169 No, but like, it is a good book. 866 01:12:13,981.9425169 --> 01:12:15,391.9425169 Um, it's interesting. 867 01:12:15,396.9425169 --> 01:12:17,491.9425169 And, and it's like, there's sexy elements. 868 01:12:17,491.9425169 --> 01:12:24,541.9425169 Like there's, I feel like there's like a, there is an edge, right? Like, it's like you are not reading somebody's diary of their breakup. 869 01:12:24,571.9425169 --> 01:12:31,741.9425169 It's like, oh, it's like you're kind of like in a weird, like indie film or like some like weird experimental rock album that you're like, oh, my friend told me to listen to this. 870 01:12:31,741.9425169 --> 01:12:33,571.9425169 I'm gonna take some like mussies and like go for it. 871 01:12:33,571.9425169 --> 01:12:41,71.9425169 You know? Like, yeah. 872 01:12:56,921.9425169 --> 01:12:57,331.9425169 Yes. 873 01:12:57,391.9425169

--> 01:12:57,991.9425169 Oh God. 874 01:12:57,991.9425169 --> 01:13:10,676.9425169 Very love and, and, yeah. 875 01:13:16,666.9425169 --> 01:13:16,956.9425169 Yeah. 876 01:13:36,496.9425169 --> 01:13:36,696.9425169 Yeah. 877 01:13:41,86.9425169 --> 01:13:41,716.9425169 Yeah, I agree. 878 01:13:42,856.9425169 --> 01:13:43,816.9425169 I agree completely. 879 01:13:49,936.9425169 --> 01:13:50,566.9425169 Thank you. 880 01:13:55,846.9425169 --> 01:14:07,636.9425169 Yeah, I That's so true. 881 01:14:09,16.9425169 --> 01:14:09,586.9425169 Yeah. 882 01:14:10,426.9425169 --> 01:14:24,46.9425169 Well, I think about how many, like albums I've listened to like, or, or like movies, books or whatever that I've read that have like completely shifted my thinking or like completely opened me up to something new that these people probably had no idea that they impacted. 883 01:14:24,46.9425169 --> 01:14:24,946.9425169 So I think. 884 01:14:26,221.9425169 --> 01:14:27,841.9425169 It's like almost, it's so weird. 885 01:14:27,841.9425169 --> 01:14:33,151.9425169 'cause like as I'm, for me for like being a writer, I have to like understand how I'm feeling a lot of ways. 886 01:14:33,481.9425169 --> 01:14:36,211.9425169 But like this, this thing, this is a new adventure for me. 887 01:14:36,211.9425169 --> 01:14:40,81.9425169 Like this whole talking about the work instead of just like making it. 888 01:14:40,561.9425169 --> 01:14:50,311.9425169 And then in that way, I have to actually not think about myself at all because I mean, yeah, I could talk about the work, I guess its own little like world, but it's not, I mean, yeah, I could say like, buy my book, buy my book. 889 01:14:50,311.9425169 --> 01:14:50,881.9425169 Like whatever. 890 01:14:50,881.9425169 --> 01:15:00,241.9425169 But really at the, like, to your point, it's, it's so that other people can be aware that this exists and they're like, oh, maybe, maybe I could get something outta that. 891 01:15:00,241.9425169 --> 01:15:01,21.9425169 You don't never know. 892 01:15:01,51.9425169 --> 01:15:06,241.9425169 You really don't know what you could do to like, touch people's souls and like really free them. 893 01:15:12,931.9425169 --> 01:15:14,131.9425169 Oh, I know, I know. 894 01:15:35,971.9425169 --> 01:15:36,91.9425169 Yeah. 895 01:15:36,666.9425169 --> 01:15:37,156.9425169 Correct. 896 01:15:41,791.9425169 --> 01:15:42,181.9425169 Yes. 897 01:16:03,871.9425169 --> 01:16:19,176.9425169 Well, it is because that's blocking your blessings from either helping other people or like actually getting, like, I'm telling like seriously, like it's, it's completely blocking the, the prosperity of what's beyond that feat of making. 898 01:16:20,611.9425169 --> 01:16:21,1.9425169 Totally. 899 01:16:21,511.9425169 --> 01:16:24,331.9425169 Even if it's a small video, like whatever, like you really don't know. 900 01:16:24,901.9425169 --> 01:16:50,11.9425169 You don't know of what a thousand views

on your TikTok and then what, I mean, what's the, like what really? Oh yeah. 901 01:16:55,321.9425169 --> 01:16:55,921.9425169 This is culture. 902 01:16:56,341.9425169 --> 01:17:09,721.9425169 Yeah, I, right. 903 01:17:17,161.9425169 --> 01:17:17,671.9425169 Yeah. 904 01:17:22,891.9425169 --> 01:17:23,101.9425169 Yeah. 905 01:17:23,101.9425169 --> 01:17:24,841.9425169 I mean, correct. 906 01:17:31,81.9425169 --> 01:17:31,351.9425169 Great. 907 01:17:38,611.9425169 --> 01:17:39,301.9425169 Oh, okay. 908 01:17:39,301.9425169 --> 01:17:41,431.9425169 Yeah, so thanks for asking. 909 01:17:41,431.9425169 --> 01:17:49,351.9425169 So, um, when does this come out? Do you, like aside, this is coming out next week or this week, right? Or Oh, sick. 910 01:17:49,381.9425169 --> 01:17:49,741.9425169 Okay. 911 01:17:50,761.9425169 --> 01:17:51,751.9425169 All right, so let me, hang on. 912 01:17:51,751.9425169 --> 01:17:52,411.9425169 Lemme get my picture on. 913 01:17:53,191.9425169 --> 01:18:00,31.9425169 Um, if you'd like to find the book, you could find it at shop SHOP dot sam bri will.com. 914 01:18:00,31.9425169 --> 01:18:01,651.9425169 So my website, sam bri will.com. 915 01:18:01,651.9425169 --> 01:18:03,601.9425169 Just shop dot sam bri will.com. 916 01:18:04,21.9425169 --> 01:18:07,51.9425169 Um, you can follow me on Instagram, Sam Bri will. 917 01:18:08,491.9425169 --> 01:18:09,901.9425169 Yeah, find me everywhere. 918 01:18:09,931.9425169 --> 01:18:14,101.9425169 Uh, Sam Brightwell, S-A-M-B-R-Y-W-I-L, Instagram, TikTok everywhere. 919 01:18:14,166.9425169 --> 01:18:15,211.9425169 I, I have a Tumblr. 920 01:18:15,331.9425169 --> 01:18:17,71.9425169 Um, I'm working on that right now. 921 01:18:17,101.9425169 --> 01:18:19,141.9425169 It's really, that's been fun actually. 922 01:18:19,141.9425169 --> 01:18:26,761.9425169 The blog has, because Tumblr re like, they went back, they reverted to like, how it looks like when I was like in high school, like 2014. 923 01:18:27,181.9425169 --> 01:18:28,471.9425169 Yeah, like the whole thing. 924 01:18:28,471.9425169 --> 01:18:37,471.9425169 So it's, I'm excited to interact with that again as like a, a space of making and playing and creating also. 925 01:18:37,471.9425169 --> 01:18:38,911.9425169 But, um, but yeah. 926 01:18:38,911.9425169 --> 01:18:43,741.9425169 So just Sam by Will, please, uh, the book is called A Year Without Touching You. 927 01:18:43,741.9425169 --> 01:18:55,111.9425169 It is a dramatic breakup opera, not necessarily a poem, not necessarily an art zine, not necessarily a book, but like, just this experience that I feel that. 928 01:18:55,471.9425169 --> 01:18:56,821.9425169 Is a collector's item. 929 01:18:56,821.9425169 --> 01:19:00,691.9425169 It's important to have, um, it, it, it will stand out on your bookshelf. 930 01:19:00,721.9425169 --> 01:19:07,861.9425169 And on top of that, I think it, it invites you to really explore some difficult conversations and come out better on the other end of them. 931 01:19:13,176.9425169 --> 01:19:14,371.9425169 Oh my God, thank you. 932 01:19:18,211.9425169 --> 01:19:19,351.9425169 Same to you. 933 01:19:20,671.9425169 --> 01:19:21,421.9425169 I cannot wait. 934 01:19:21,481.9425169 --> 01:19:28,141.9425169 Or what's next? Totally. 935 01:19:29,626.9425169 --> 01:19:37,621.9425169 I, okay. 936 01:19:38,821.9425169 --> 01:19:39,121.9425169 All right. 937 01:19:39,121.9425169 --> 01:19:40,51.9425169 I'm gonna give you a rant. 938 01:19:40,111.9425169 --> 01:19:40,411.9425169 Okay. 939 01:19:40,411.9425169 --> 01:19:41,491.9425169 Here's my ceiling. 940 01:19:41,611.9425169 --> 01:19:42,511.9425169 Good luck with that. 941 01:19:42,991.9425169 --> 01:19:44,611.9425169 Um, here's the rant. 942 01:19:44,761.9425169 --> 01:19:45,211.9425169 Okay. 943 01:19:45,211.9425169 --> 01:19:46,921.9425169 I think that, you know. 944 01:19:47,236.9425169 --> 01:19:50,176.9425169 Let's just start talking to people about what we want from them. 945 01:19:50,176.9425169 --> 01:19:52,876.9425169 I think it's important to have direct communication. 946 01:19:52,906.9425169 --> 01:19:57,616.9425169 Um, in general, this is not to anybody, and I hope the person that this is to is not watching this. 947 01:19:58,186.9425169 --> 01:20:08,176.9425169 But listen, this is nobody but for everybody, listen, I know that I come off like a crazy resting bitch face, but I just appreciate direct, direct communication. 948 01:20:08,176.9425169 --> 01:20:08,896.9425169 I really believe that. 949 01:20:08,896.9425169 --> 01:20:14,536.9425169 It's like how we, you know, um, avoid miscon, misconstrues and all those sorts of things. 950 01:20:14,536.9425169 --> 01:20:17,176.9425169 So like, listen, just say, say what you mean. 951 01:20:17,506.9425169 --> 01:20:20,206.9425169 Say it with your chest, and I respect you for that. 952 01:20:20,206.9425169 --> 01:20:26,326.9425169 And guess what? You're gonna be better at the end of it because you're probably gonna get what you want from me if you just tell me what you want, what you really, really want. 953 01:20:26,626.9425169 --> 01:20:32,446.9425169 So, I'm, for my, I know I'm for my ceiling rant. 954 01:20:32,626.9425169 --> 01:20:36,226.9425169 I'm advocating for direct communication in 2026. 955 01:20:36,226.9425169 --> 01:20:36,766.9425169 Please. 956 01:20:44,881.9425169 --> 01:20:49,111.9425169 Hello? Can I, do I have to, I know. 957 01:20:49,111.9425169 --> 01:20:53,851.9425169 Do I need to jump around all of these verbal gymnastics? Can you just tell me please? I, I get it. 958 01:20:53,851.9425169 --> 01:20:54,271.9425169 I get it. 959 01:20:54,271.9425169 --> 01:20:55,201.9425169 You don't wanna hurt my feelings. 960 01:20:55,201.9425169 --> 01:20:56,281.9425169 I don't have feelings. 961 01:20:56,281.9425169 --> 01:20:58,351.9425169 You would have to do a lot to hurt my feelings, honey. 962 01:20:58,771.9425169 --> 01:20:59,311.9425169 Trust me. 963 01:21:03,691.9425169 --> 01:21:04,81.9425169 Hello. 964 01:21:07,501.9425169 --> 01:21:09,241.9425169 Well, happy to be here. 965 01:21:10,411.9425169 --> 01:21:11,191.9425169 That's hilarious. 966 01:21:12,121.9425169 --> 01:21:12,421.9425169 All right. 967 01:21:12,721.9425169 --> 01:21:12,991.9425169 Right. 968 01:21:12,991.9425169 --> 01:21:13,381.9425169 Bye.