TRANSKRIP 🔗
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.380 --> 00:00:03.839
Polk spent years trying to get somebody to understand something
2
00:00:04.459 --> 00:00:08.800
that I never actually told him. I hinted at it.
3
00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:13.279
I danced around it. I tried to steer him toward it.
4
00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:18.570
And when none of that worked, I became increasingly frustrated
5
00:00:18.629 --> 00:00:22.429
that he wasn't getting the message. There was just one problem.
6
00:00:23.469 --> 00:00:29.570
I hadn't really given him the message. Sometimes the conversation
7
00:00:29.609 --> 00:00:34.210
we're avoiding isn't getting easier with time. It's just getting
8
00:00:34.229 --> 00:00:35.109
more expensive.
9
00:00:37.340 --> 00:00:40.759
This is Your Morning Boost, recorded in the Forward Ed
10
00:00:40.820 --> 00:00:45.039
Network studios. A weekly spark for educators and school leaders
11
00:00:45.340 --> 00:00:50.030
ready to lead, teach, and live with greater intention. This
12
00:00:50.210 --> 00:00:51.390
is Your Morning Boost.
13
00:00:54.219 --> 00:00:56.259
This was quite a few years ago. I was still
14
00:00:56.380 --> 00:00:59.359
relatively new in leadership, and I was working with a
15
00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:01.439
coach who was really good at what he did. It
16
00:01:01.899 --> 00:01:05.980
was a very successful program led by a very successful coach,
17
00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:10.189
well-respected in the community. I mean, he did everything you
18
00:01:10.219 --> 00:01:12.790
wanted him to do. His kids worked hard. The program
19
00:01:12.909 --> 00:01:15.469
mattered to him. It was a program we were very,
20
00:01:15.549 --> 00:01:19.730
very proud of. And honestly, those things probably made the
21
00:01:19.790 --> 00:01:24.000
conversation a little harder for me. Because this wasn't somebody
22
00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:28.640
who was failing. There wasn't some glaring performance problem where
23
00:01:28.739 --> 00:01:32.359
everybody could look at the situation and say, well, obviously
24
00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:35.909
somebody needs to address this. I mean, he was very successful.
25
00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:39.890
The problem was that he tended to look at decisions
26
00:01:39.930 --> 00:01:42.930
through the lens of what was best for his program.
27
00:01:43.489 --> 00:01:46.250
And I don't mean that as an insult. That's what
28
00:01:46.409 --> 00:01:51.620
coaches do naturally. You invest enormous amounts of yourself into
29
00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:56.480
building something, so naturally you want to protect it. But
30
00:01:56.620 --> 00:02:01.030
we were beginning to see some consequences outside of his program.
31
00:02:02.030 --> 00:02:04.150
Some of the decisions that were being made were good
32
00:02:04.189 --> 00:02:07.730
for his roster, but they were affecting participation in other
33
00:02:07.790 --> 00:02:11.509
sports and activities. And from where I sat, I had
34
00:02:11.550 --> 00:02:16.169
the responsibility to think about the entire activities program, not
35
00:02:16.409 --> 00:02:20.960
one season or one team. the whole thing. So I
36
00:02:21.020 --> 00:02:24.740
could see the problem. I just wasn't very good at
37
00:02:24.860 --> 00:02:29.360
telling him there was a problem. Instead, I tried to
38
00:02:29.419 --> 00:02:32.229
do it with little subtle hints. I'd make comments about
39
00:02:32.770 --> 00:02:36.789
being a team, or I'd talk generally about supporting other programs,
40
00:02:37.349 --> 00:02:42.060
find opportunities to mention our multi-sport participation or kids who
41
00:02:42.090 --> 00:02:45.310
are in speech and plays and in in music and
42
00:02:45.349 --> 00:02:48.050
in band and in all the activities, took all of
43
00:02:48.069 --> 00:02:50.729
those opportunities to mention these and make these little comments.
44
00:02:50.909 --> 00:02:53.069
I thought these were pretty obvious, at least they were
45
00:02:53.129 --> 00:02:56.900
obvious to me. But because I knew what I meant,
46
00:02:57.699 --> 00:03:03.860
he didn't. And so this went on for a long time, years, actually.
47
00:03:03.879 --> 00:03:07.379
And every once in a while, something would happen that
48
00:03:07.539 --> 00:03:12.159
reinforced my concern. I'd see another participation number that's declining
49
00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.479
or another roster that Like, boy, that kiddo really should
50
00:03:15.500 --> 00:03:19.500
be out there. Another decision that I thought was contributing
51
00:03:19.580 --> 00:03:22.560
to the issue, and I would think, how does he
52
00:03:22.659 --> 00:03:25.610
not see this? I hear him talk about wanting our
53
00:03:25.650 --> 00:03:30.469
entire program to succeed. Well, he didn't see it because
54
00:03:31.330 --> 00:03:35.270
I hadn't shown it to him. That's the part I
55
00:03:35.289 --> 00:03:38.840
understand very differently now. I was waiting for him to
56
00:03:38.909 --> 00:03:43.169
infer something I was unwilling to say clearly. And I
57
00:03:43.229 --> 00:03:46.430
think leaders do this all of the time. We call
58
00:03:46.469 --> 00:03:50.590
it giving somebody time. We call it hoping they'll figure
59
00:03:50.629 --> 00:03:53.240
it out. Or we're telling ourselves we're trying not to
60
00:03:53.349 --> 00:03:57.939
overreact to a situation. Sometimes we might even convince ourselves
61
00:03:57.979 --> 00:04:03.099
that we're preserving the relationship here. But the reality is
62
00:04:03.139 --> 00:04:06.240
we're dropping hints and hoping another adult will assemble them
63
00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:08.800
into the exact message that we have in our heads.
64
00:04:09.259 --> 00:04:14.360
And then we get frustrated when they don't. Eventually, I
65
00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:18.800
finally had the conversation. I don't remember every word of it.
66
00:04:19.550 --> 00:04:22.430
I do remember that by then I had some numbers.
67
00:04:22.529 --> 00:04:26.129
I could show him what I was seeing, but this wasn't,
68
Load full transcript
00:04:26.410 --> 00:04:29.490
I don't like how you're doing this. It was more, hey,
69
00:04:29.649 --> 00:04:33.769
here's what's happening. Here's what I'm seeing in participation. Here's
70
00:04:33.810 --> 00:04:37.350
how some of the decisions are affecting programs outside of yours.
71
00:04:38.170 --> 00:04:43.439
And once we actually had the conversation, He understood exactly
72
00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:48.139
what I meant. Here's something I had lost sight of
73
00:04:48.540 --> 00:04:52.699
while I was busy avoiding this conversation. He cared about
74
00:04:52.730 --> 00:04:56.290
the school. Like I said, he wanted the entire school,
75
00:04:56.490 --> 00:04:59.509
all of our programs to be successful. He was really
76
00:04:59.589 --> 00:05:01.750
proud of what we were building. He didn't wake up
77
00:05:01.829 --> 00:05:05.209
every morning trying to hurt somebody else's program. He was
78
00:05:05.290 --> 00:05:08.870
making decisions based on the information and the perspective that
79
00:05:08.910 --> 00:05:12.000
he had in the moment. I had all of the
80
00:05:12.060 --> 00:05:17.480
information that he didn't have. That's when it really hit me.
81
00:05:18.300 --> 00:05:21.720
He was an adult. He was an intelligent person. He
82
00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:25.500
could handle the truth. I just needed to give him
83
00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:29.379
the truth. I wish I could tell you that I
84
00:05:29.420 --> 00:05:32.360
learned that lesson immediately, but I'm not sure that leadership
85
00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:35.060
actually works that way. I mean, usually we have to
86
00:05:35.110 --> 00:05:37.930
make slightly different versions of the same mistakes a few
87
00:05:37.990 --> 00:05:42.589
times before we finally recognize the pattern. But I've thought
88
00:05:42.629 --> 00:05:45.750
about that coach a lot over the years because the
89
00:05:45.870 --> 00:05:51.629
conversation I was avoiding, it wasn't particularly complicated. It wasn't cruel.
90
00:05:52.449 --> 00:05:57.220
It wasn't some devastating piece of feedback. It was just uncomfortable.
91
00:05:58.300 --> 00:06:03.579
And I think I confused those things. Sometimes the conversation
92
00:06:03.620 --> 00:06:07.589
we're avoiding isn't difficult because the other person can't handle it.
93
00:06:08.569 --> 00:06:12.050
It's difficult because we don't want to experience the discomfort
94
00:06:12.110 --> 00:06:16.829
of having it. That's a much less flattering explanation, but
95
00:06:16.860 --> 00:06:21.379
at least for me, it's often been the more accurate one.
96
00:06:23.100 --> 00:06:26.339
Avoidance has a cost. That's the part I don't think
97
00:06:26.420 --> 00:06:29.759
I understood early enough in my career. When I avoided
98
00:06:29.819 --> 00:06:33.819
that conversation with this coach, the issue didn't sit patiently
99
00:06:33.879 --> 00:06:35.790
on the shelf waiting for me to get back to it.
100
00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:41.279
Decisions kept getting made.
participation continued to be affected and
101
00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:47.060
I continued to get frustrated and maybe more importantly I
102
00:06:47.100 --> 00:06:51.310
was allowing myself to develop a story about this person
103
00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:56.790
that wasn't entirely fair I mean I was starting to
104
00:06:56.850 --> 00:07:00.069
think he only cares about his own program or he
105
00:07:00.170 --> 00:07:03.730
doesn't understand the big picture why can't he see what
106
00:07:03.769 --> 00:07:08.360
this is doing I mean these Thoughts become really easy
107
00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:12.740
when we're frustrated with somebody. But look at what I
108
00:07:12.779 --> 00:07:16.100
was asking him to do. I wanted him to understand
109
00:07:16.139 --> 00:07:22.680
the bigger picture without showing him the bigger picture. That's
110
00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:26.459
on me. And there's a relational cost to this, too.
111
00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:31.339
Because when we avoid a needed conversation, our frustration usually
112
00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:36.509
doesn't disappear. It will leak. Maybe your tone changes a
113
00:07:36.670 --> 00:07:41.290
little bit, might become shorter with somebody. We stop asking
114
00:07:41.329 --> 00:07:46.589
for their input. Or maybe we start interpreting everything they
115
00:07:46.649 --> 00:07:51.439
do through the problem that we just haven't addressed. And meanwhile,
116
00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:56.199
the other person may have absolutely no idea why the
117
00:07:56.220 --> 00:08:02.639
relationship feels different. Think about how unfair that is. I'm
118
00:08:02.699 --> 00:08:05.579
holding you accountable in my head for a conversation that
119
00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:11.639
I've never had with you? That's not patience. It's not kindness.
120
00:08:11.660 --> 00:08:18.310
It's certainly not clarity. Sometimes the kindest thing we can
121
00:08:18.389 --> 00:08:22.149
do is tell another adult the truth while the problem
122
00:08:22.209 --> 00:08:23.990
is still small enough to actually solve it.
123
00:08:30.149 --> 00:08:35.379
This segment is sponsored by Grunmeier Leader Services. Since 2013,
124
00:08:35.379 --> 00:08:38.419
GLS has been a trusted partner for school districts across
125
00:08:38.460 --> 00:08:43.159
the Midwest, specializing in executive recruitment and leadership support. They
126
00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.610
believe that great schools start with great leaders, and they
127
00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:48.970
are here to help you find a perfect fit for
128
00:08:48.990 --> 00:08:52.590
your district. Transform your school's future with the right leader.
129
00:08:53.029 --> 00:08:59.759
Visit GrunmeierLeaderSearch.com to learn more. Brunmeier Leader Services, transforming education
130
00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:07.970
one leader at a time.
131
00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:10.809
I want to put some guardrails around this conversation because
132
00:09:10.950 --> 00:09:15.549
I am not saying that every irritation deserves a confrontation. Frankly,
133
00:09:15.570 --> 00:09:19.049
that would be exhausting. People are going to annoy each other.
134
00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:24.620
We're adults. We have different styles. We misunderstand things. Sometimes
135
00:09:24.700 --> 00:09:28.250
something bothers me on Tuesday, and by Thursday I realize
136
00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:33.730
it really wasn't that important. Not every frustration needs a meeting,
137
00:09:34.769 --> 00:09:36.889
but I do think that there's a useful question here.
138
00:09:37.509 --> 00:09:43.750
Is this getting better without the conversation? If the answer
139
00:09:43.789 --> 00:09:47.419
is yes, okay, then give it some room. But if
140
00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:50.399
you've been thinking about the same issue for weeks, if
141
00:09:50.460 --> 00:09:57.000
you're adjusting yourself around it, If other people are beginning
142
00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:02.820
to experience the consequences, then waiting probably isn't neutral anymore.
143
00:10:03.659 --> 00:10:06.679
We're paying for this delay. I hate to tell you,
144
00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:09.289
the price is only going to go up. Think about
145
00:10:09.330 --> 00:10:13.169
a staff member who's missing an expectation. The first conversation
146
00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:15.789
might be, hey, I noticed this. Let's make sure we're
147
00:10:15.809 --> 00:10:19.700
clear about what needs to happen. Avoid it long enough,
148
00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:22.720
and now maybe you're dealing with a pattern. Maybe other
149
00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:29.559
staff have noticed. Maybe students are affected. Maybe resentment has developed.
150
00:10:30.940 --> 00:10:34.840
The conversation you eventually have now is much bigger than
151
00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:38.950
the conversation you could have had three weeks ago. Think
152
00:10:38.990 --> 00:10:43.370
about the tension between two people on a team. Early on,
153
00:10:43.990 --> 00:10:47.120
probably it's some sort of a misunderstanding. Leave it alone
154
00:10:47.169 --> 00:10:50.980
long enough and people start choosing sides. Now we're not
155
00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:54.720
solving one misunderstanding. Now we're trying to repair a relationship,
156
00:10:54.860 --> 00:11:04.299
maybe several relationships. Problems accumulate interest. Eventually, we'll have to
157
00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:08.539
pay it. I also think we need to be careful
158
00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:13.429
about the stories we tell ourselves when we avoid these conversations.
159
00:11:14.429 --> 00:11:17.250
One of mine has always been, I'm trying to preserve
160
00:11:17.289 --> 00:11:20.769
the relationship. In my head, that sounds really noble. And
161
00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.159
sometimes it might actually be true. But I've learned to
162
00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:28.700
ask myself, am I protecting the relationship? Or am I
163
00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:36.139
protecting myself from an uncomfortable moment? Those can look
remarkably
164
00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:41.860
similar from the outside. If I genuinely care about the relationship,
165
00:11:42.019 --> 00:11:46.720
clarity is usually part of that. Brene Brown, clear as kind.
166
00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:53.259
Not brutality. Not unloading every frustration I've accumulated for six
167
00:11:53.340 --> 00:11:57.009
months in a verbal vomit right at you. Not walking
168
00:11:57.049 --> 00:11:59.830
into the room determined to prove that I am right.
169
00:12:00.190 --> 00:12:05.970
I'm talking about clarity. Here's what I'm seeing. Here's why
170
00:12:06.029 --> 00:12:11.289
I'm concerned. Here's the impact I think it's having. And
171
00:12:11.450 --> 00:12:19.129
then I need to listen. The conversation isn't just my
172
00:12:19.289 --> 00:12:23.789
opportunity to finally tell somebody what I've been thinking. It's
173
00:12:24.110 --> 00:12:29.600
also my opportunity to discover what I don't know. That's
174
00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:33.899
what happened with this coach. Once we stopped communicating through
175
00:12:34.059 --> 00:12:38.700
hints and started communicating directly, I got to understand his
176
00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:43.549
perspective too. The conversation wasn't the end of the relationship.
177
00:12:44.019 --> 00:12:49.490
In fact, it made a more honest relationship possible. And
178
00:12:49.509 --> 00:12:53.230
maybe that's another reason these conversations get more expensive. The
179
00:12:53.269 --> 00:12:57.789
longer we wait, the more evidence we collect. Not necessarily
180
00:12:57.889 --> 00:13:01.960
objective evidence either, but evidence for the story that we've
181
00:13:02.179 --> 00:13:07.100
already started telling ourselves. Every new incident becomes, see, there
182
00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:10.879
it is again. And by the time we finally talk,
183
00:13:10.940 --> 00:13:14.980
we may not be walking into the conversation curious anymore.
184
00:13:15.830 --> 00:13:18.870
We've already prosecuted the case in our own head. I've
185
00:13:18.909 --> 00:13:22.590
reached the verdict. Now I'm just inviting that other person
186
00:13:22.629 --> 00:13:27.370
in for their sentence. That is a terrible way to
187
00:13:27.409 --> 00:13:32.549
begin a conversation that we want to go well. Earlier
188
00:13:32.669 --> 00:13:37.679
is often easier because there's still room for curiosity. Here's
189
00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:41.000
what I'm seeing. Am I reading this correctly? Help me
190
00:13:41.070 --> 00:13:45.570
understand what I'm missing. Or maybe here's the impact I'm
191
00:13:45.629 --> 00:13:50.309
concerned about. What are you seeing? That's a very different
192
00:13:50.370 --> 00:13:53.129
conversation than the one we have after six months of
193
00:13:53.210 --> 00:13:59.129
silent frustration. So think about the conversation you already know
194
00:13:59.169 --> 00:14:01.730
that you need to have. I guarantee you there's one there.
195
00:14:01.769 --> 00:14:05.889
There's one there for every leader. And I'm guessing for
196
00:14:05.929 --> 00:14:08.429
a lot of leaders, you know exactly which one I'm
197
00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:11.519
talking about. You probably have thought about the person before
198
00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:15.799
I even finished the sentence. Maybe you've been waiting for
199
00:14:15.820 --> 00:14:19.879
the right time or hoping the problem resolves itself. Maybe,
200
00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:24.190
like me, you've tried to drop a few hints. Or
201
00:14:24.250 --> 00:14:27.710
you've convinced yourself that you've given the person grace. And
202
00:14:28.110 --> 00:14:33.320
maybe you really are. But ask yourself, is this getting
203
00:14:33.419 --> 00:14:39.110
better without the conversation? And if it isn't, what is
204
00:14:39.169 --> 00:14:43.350
waiting costing you? What is it costing the other person?
205
00:14:44.169 --> 00:14:48.850
Or what is it costing the team? What story are
206
00:14:48.889 --> 00:14:53.240
you beginning to tell yourself because you haven't heard theirs?
207
00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:59.559
The lesson that coach taught me wasn't that I needed
208
00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:03.899
to become more confrontational. That wasn't it at all. It
209
00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.259
was much simpler. He was an adult. He was an
210
00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:11.340
intelligent person who could handle the truth. I just needed
211
00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:16.990
to give him the truth. So maybe this week, have
212
00:15:17.019 --> 00:15:21.149
the conversation while it's still the smaller version of that conversation.
213
00:15:21.169 --> 00:15:26.000
That's something worth thinking about this week. Thanks for joining
214
00:15:26.019 --> 00:15:28.639
me here today on Your Morning Boost. We'll see you
215
00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:31.870
next time here on the Forward Ed Network. Have a
216
00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:32.570
great week, everybody.
217
00:15:36.190 --> 00:15:40.090
That's your morning boost from AWB Education and Media. If
218
00:15:40.129 --> 00:15:42.929
this episode helped you reset your thinking or take your
219
00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:46.620
next step forward, share it with a colleague. And don't
220
00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.539
forget to subscribe so your next boost is ready when
221
00:15:49.580 --> 00:15:53.759
you need it. Keep showing up with intention. Keep moving forward,
222
00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:55.100
and we'll see you next time.