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You hear us talk about ways to unlock VIP membership
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through your Apple account and the Apple Podcast app and
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also through Patreon or Spotify. To unlock a full VIP
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ability right from our ad-free mobile site, go to pwtorch.com
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slash govip. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. That'll give you all
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the details on everything you're missing out on by not
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being a VIP member. The whole array of VIP exclusive
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podcasts like the Wade Keller News Bulletins, our post pay-per-view roundtables,
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the fix that I host with Todd Martin, everything with
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Rich and Wade, and an array of other shows with
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different hosts and different themes, along with unlocking our archives
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dating back nearly four decades. Nearly 2,000 Pro Wrestling Torch
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weekly newsletters. Over two decades of podcasts on demand dating
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back to the mid-2000s, starting with pay-per-view roundtables, hundreds of
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fascinating retro radio shows, including many that I hosted in
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the 1990s, and an ad-free website, exclusive content on that
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miss out on all the benefits. Treat yourself to a
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VIP membership. pwtorch.com slash govip. Go all the way. Go VIP. pwtorch.com
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slash govip.
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Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
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Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's interview classic,
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where Wade Keller interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers.
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Today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast for Saturday, November 7th, 2026.
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We jump back 10 years to a back-to-back interview episode,
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first with Gabe Sapolsky and then with Stone Cold Steve Austin.
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Gabe Sapolsky, then VP of Talent Relations and Creative for
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Evolve and WNN, discussed the Flow Slam streaming affiliation and
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what it could mean to indie wrestling and the development
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of talent, plus WWE's reaction to it, who his top
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stars are, what the marketing would be, and more. And
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then Steve Austin joined me to talk about current events
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for well over an hour, including the main event programs
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and wrestlers in WWE and what was working and not working. Plus,
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Goldberg's return, the awkward Dean Ambrose interview on WWE Network,
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the prospects of a Shawn Michaels-AJ Styles match, thoughts on Charlotte,
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and then some UFC talk about Conor McGregor and Ronda
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Rousey at the end. Also, we got listeners ready for
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his new CMT Series Broken Skull Challenge that started up
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with new episodes that month. So let's get to it.
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Really fun interview classic episode here on the Wade Keller
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Pro Wrestling Podcast on Saturday, November 7th, 2026. Welcome to
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the PWTorch Livecast. I am Wade Keller, editor and publisher
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of the Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly Newsletter. established in 1987,
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and also PWTorch.com and MMATorch.com, covering the worlds of pro
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wrestling and mixed martial arts. You can get daily news
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updates on both pro wrestling and MMA at those two sites,
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along with exclusive flashbacks, editorials, live event coverage, and so
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much more. Mobile-friendly, desktop-friendly, check them out, PWTorch.com and MMATorch.com.
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And don't forget, you can support us when you shop
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Amazon by starting your Amazon shopping at pwtorch.com slash Amazon.
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Thank you, everybody, who's already doing that. And thank you
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for joining me today. We've got a big doubleheader on
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today's program. Coming up as our second guest on the
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program is Stone Cold Steve Austin. Yeah, Steve Austin joining
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us in a few minutes. But first, we are pleased
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to announce that Gabe Sapolsky. who has played many roles
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in pro wrestling over the years, going back to ECW,
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is going to be joining me to talk about flow sports, evolve,
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and what's going on with the future of indie wrestling
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in this country. I think we've got him on this line.
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I haven't confirmed the number, but Gabe, is this you?
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Did you hear a beep, Gabe? All right, I guess not. Heck,
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I'll try this number. Gabe, is this you?
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Yep, I'm right here.
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Oh, okay, good. I wasn't sure what number you're calling from.
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Good to hear from you. Thank you for calling in today.
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Thanks for having me on, Wade. Am I really opening
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up for Steve Austin here?
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Yes, you are.
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Wow, this is a lot of pressure. You didn't tell
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me about this.
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He might be listening in any time now, so be sure,
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you know, that you make a good impression. No, yeah,
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when you're done, he'll be coming on. He'll be closing
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out the gig tonight.
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Well, I can actually hear the listeners tuning out until
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Steve Austin comes on. So hopefully some of them are listening.
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Well, first of all, I do want to say, if
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you have a question for Gabe Sapolsky, feel free to
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give us a call. Our phone number is 515-605-9345.
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That's 515-605-9345.
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Do not call to talk to Steve Austin tonight. until
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we say goodbye to Gabe and bring Steve on to
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the show. That'll just create confusion and chaos. And you
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can also email us a question, pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. That's
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pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. Gabe, some changes going on in the
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wrestling industry. Last time you were on the show, a
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really good conversation about a lot of things, big picture
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in this industry. There's some micro-specifics that affect you that
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I want to get into. Also, of course, and we'll
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start with that, and then I'll kind of broaden it
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out afterwards, because you've been such a mainstay and survivor
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in an ever-changing world of independent wrestling, non-corporate wrestling, and
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also media changes, distribution changes. And Flow Slam is a
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new channel as part of the Flow Sports family now.
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well-established amateur sports, essentially, or recreational activity streaming service. And
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they announced a week and a half ago that the
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World Wrestling Network was the first affiliate of their new
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professional wrestling distribution channel. They're charging $ 20 a month or
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a lot less if you commit to a year. Let
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me ask this first of all, because I think with
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our listenership, There's people intrigued by this, but they just
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don't know a lot outside of WWE, NXT, and ROH,
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and references here and there to other things. What is
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World Wrestling Network, and what is your role in the
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different affiliates under that banner?
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Well, first of all, I like that description of mainstay
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at Survivor. Thank you for that. Maybe I can go
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update my Wikipedia with that. That seems to be the
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best way to describe the last 23 years of my life.
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For the people who don't know, I was with ECW
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and then started Ring of Honor after that.
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What's that? Don't give the 30-minute whole lot.
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I was Paul Heyman's personal assistant. I actually doubt Steve
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Austin remembered me, but But part of my apprenticeship there
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was Heyman having me call Steve Austin with his flight
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info back in ECW. That was my first dealing with
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a major star. But then we started Ring of Honor,
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and then from there, Dragon Gay USA evolved. I booked
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for FIP. So it has been survival for over the
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course of the 23 years. The World Wrestling Network is
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Sal Hamway's vision. and I'm its partner in some of
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the promotions of it. It's basically the main company, and
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underneath it we have several different brands of wrestling, including Evolve,
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which is the main brand, Shine, which is the one
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that features women's wrestling, serious women's wrestling, FIP, and ACW's
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in it. And we got some stuff up our sleeve, too,
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that we're going to announce Black Friday week. So, um,
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pay attention to www.live.com for that.
Cause, um, we're, we're,
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we're gonna, the flow slam deal allows us to take
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something to the next level. So, um, we're, we're definitely, uh, the, the, the,
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the WWN is going to, um, be, uh, it's, it's
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going to be expanding. So, um, so basically, uh, those
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brands are, the goal is to present a different style
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of wrestling. And we are taking all that over and
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out of flow slam.tv, um, starting this Friday with the shine, uh,
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I pay-per-view and, um, flow slam.tv has already put a
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lot of the evolve and shine and dragon gate USA
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shows on demand. They're going to have the whole back
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library there too. So it's going to be, uh, it's
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going to be a really good deal. It's a 20
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bucks a month. You get to where we're committed to
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doing five live shows a month. So you get that
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and the entire back catalog. And, um, it's only $ 150
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if you commit to the whole year. So that comes
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out to $ 1, 250 a month. So you put five in
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the $ 1, 250, it comes out to $ 250 a live show.
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So it's a pretty good deal and the future of
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where distribution of pro wrestling is going.
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Yeah, the future of the distribution of pro wrestling is right. WWE,
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a few years ago, a lot of people crunched the
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numbers and looked at the pay-per-view data and said, they're
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cannibalizing this pay-per-view data or this pay-per-view revenue by converting
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to streaming, they might be doing it too soon. My
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thinking is think long-term on this type of thing. If
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you can get in early, I mean, you don't want
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to start before you can have a reliable signal or
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before you have a payment method set up that is
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convenient for people. You don't want to give a bad impression.
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But once the technology is there and you're pretty sure
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it's the future, you know, it's sort of like Netflix. Yeah,
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they'll mail you a DVD, but they really just want
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you to sign up online. And that's been their philosophy
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since for even when there were blockbuster stores in every corner.
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They were trying to convert people to the streaming method
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because they knew that was the future. The DVD industry,
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it's strange, Gabe, that people look at $ 20. And, I mean,
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it has to seem so strange to you because people
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are looking at $ 20 going, what? You know, WWE only
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charges $ 10. And I've heard a lot of that. And
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if you compare it to DVD pricing... And the number
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of events you're getting, that has to frustrate you because
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you get it immediately. You get it live. You have
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perpetual access to it for as long as you're a member.
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You can watch it on any device, all of that stuff.
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Those are all pluses. Is that a hard adjustment for
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you to now be talking about and trying to sell
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people on $ 2. 50 is a good deal? Come on, people,
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as opposed to– The mindset before, which is, oh, I
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get to watch an indie event on DVD, this is fantastic,
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which was the attitude in the, actually, VHS era at
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the beginning of ROH. People were just happy to have
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access to this great show that otherwise they would have
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had to drive across the country to see.
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It really is amazing to me and frustrating at the
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same time, because I did come up in an era...
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People were paying $ 25 for a VHS of an ECW
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show and a videotape. And even $ 20 was the going
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price when we started Ring of Honor of a videotape
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and then a DVD. And, you know, we still get
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$ 20 for Blu-rays, but anybody will tell you that the
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physical media is just dying and has been for a
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long time. There's still an audience for it. And it's
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still something we produce. But it's definitely not what it
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used to be. But it used to be $ 20, $ 25
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per show. Now, for $ 20, I look at it. Right now,
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you buy ThePostLame.tv just for November for $ 20. You're getting
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this Friday's shine show. We're running Evolve on November 12th
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out of New York. Evolve November 13th out of Joppa, Maryland.
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We have loaded cards for that. That's three live events
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right there for $ 20. and the whole back catalog that
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you can watch anytime. So it's like, to me, that's
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an amazing deal. But I do understand that the market
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has been set by WWE at $ 10, even New Japan's $ 10.
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So I understand that's a price point, and that's why
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we're trying to go above and beyond and offer more
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with all these live events. And I know Flowslam.tv is
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also looking to acquire other independents and add it to
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the service. So that's no secret. So we're trying to
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do our best to go to give as much as
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we can, especially live content, because streaming is a live platform.
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And once we start making these announcements Black Friday week,
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that's going to show that we're offering more. And hopefully
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we do give enough value so that 250 a show
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is worth it. You know, it is a little discouraging
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when you say to like, you know, we're kind of
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we're working our hardest right now. and we're presenting these
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events that we're really proud of, and, you know, it's
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hard to get people to think they're worth $ 5 each
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or something or $ 2. 50 each or whatever. So, yeah, it
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is frustrating, but at the same time, we understand that
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this is the age we live in, and you can
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either go with it and make it work for you
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or fight it. And we've been in this gap for
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a long time because we did have our service at WWNlive.com
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where we were charging $ 15 per event a la carte.
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we weren't able to offer subscription service. It was something
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we were looking into before this FlowSlam deal and actually
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had in development because we realized that's the direction things
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were going in. That was going to be a big
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risk for us and a big gamble. And then FlowSlam.tv
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came along and they made this something
that was very
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appealing to us because it allowed us to offer our
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product at this price.
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Um.
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to to uh... to to the masses and we realize
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that this is the way things are going and flow
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slam is is a tremendous company that was the big
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thing about this deal is a foul we we did
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research on them wwe is an investor in them uh...
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if you google them and you'll see a wall street
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journal article where they've raised quite a bit of money uh...
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with sal uh... actually went down to austin texas and
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visited their headquarters and was just blown away by the
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amount of employees they have and their whole complex there
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of office buildings and the technology that they're developing. So
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this was our chance to partner with a rising major
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company that is at the forefront of the streaming industry,
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and we took it because this is definitely the future.
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It's going to be a one-price subscription service, and now
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it's just a matter of offering as much as we
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can to justify that price.
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I got some follow-up questions for you. We're going to
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go to our commercial break. Our first commercial break will
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be back right after this word from our sponsors. More
261
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:49.000
with Gabe Sapolsky of Evolve and the World Wrestling Network
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available on Flow Sports platform in the Flow Slam channel.
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We know you're a pro wrestling fan. Did you know
264
00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.740
that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of your
265
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favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch Daily Casts? Just go
266
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to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a VIP membership tier.
267
00:16:15.259 --> 00:16:17.259
You get a seven-day free trial, by the way, to
268
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:18.710
kick the tires a bit and see if you like
269
00:16:18.730 --> 00:16:21.350
the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and you
270
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can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows like
271
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the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship,
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our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch DataCast lineup. Again, all commercial-free,
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a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership, you
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can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with
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Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that I
276
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host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin's
277
00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:46.720
post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with
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different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup. Go
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up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either
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way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day free trial.
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Always at PWTorchLivecast.com. My guest in the first part of
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today's Interview Thursday episode is Gabe Sapolsky. Gabe, do you
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have a title now, or the same title you had,
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what was it, or do you have a new title
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now with this deal?
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I guess it's VP of Talent Relations for WWN.
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And creative.
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Something like that. I like Mainstayman Survivor. I think I'm
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going to put that on my business card. Or opening
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act for Steve Austin on Blake Keller's show.
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One or the other.
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I'll go with those.
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I like it. I like it. If you do get
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business cards made up with that, send me a couple.
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I'll put them.
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Up in my office.
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Very good. Okay. How is Flow Slam... And this is
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regardless of whether they add more independent brands or ROH
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or New Japan or who knows what else. Just in general,
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how are they going to reach new wrestling fans? Is
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the game plan the same as Jerry Jarrett's and Jeff
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Jarrett's when TNA launched, which is, well, look at all
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those people on message boards who like wrestling. Look at
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all those websites who write about us. That's free publicity.
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They're going to find out about this. And if we
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can just get X percent of them, we're going to
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be rich. And it
didn't work out. Absolutely not. I
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set that up as a low bar for you to
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do better than, but what is that game plan?
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This is a cutting-edge real company with 200 employees, and
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among those 200 employees is a marketing department filled with
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people who know all that SEO and Google ads and
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Facebook ads and everything else and how to reach demographics.
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So part of their sales pitch to us was the
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amount of marketing and promotion they're going to put into
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this and the people that they have marketing and promoting it.
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And in fact, that was one thing I told Sal
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when we went down to Austin was, hey, make sure
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you find out, you talk to the marketing people and see.
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What they're all about.
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I want to see if it's a bunch of college kids, interns,
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or I want to see if they actually have marketing
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and experts. And they do. So they went out and
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hired the best people possible. and they've committed a pretty
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nice budget to marketing this as well. So what they
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do with that, that's in their hands. They're the experts.
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We deliver the product, but we have been assured that
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we have top marketing people getting behind this, and it's
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not going to be let's tweet some stuff with a
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hashtag and hope people find it.
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The marketing of this, what is your– Understand. I assume
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you'll be involved in what the pitch should be. When
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the product is marketed, what is the niche? What is
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Paul Heyman? I'll preface it with this short little anecdote.
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Paul Heyman always said the main reason T & A
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isn't working or a big reason preventing them from growing
338
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is they don't have an identity. People don't know when
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you say TNA what that means. They haven't defined their
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place in their brand in the marketplace other than the
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initial vision. And I know from talking to Jerry Jarrett
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before the TNA launch, it was, well, there's all those
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WCW fans out there. And if we just give them
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a product sort of like it, they'll come back because
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they don't like WWE. So we're just going to kind
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of be a continuation of WCW since he didn't get
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to buy the company. He just sort of recreated. What
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is Evolve? What is the pitch for WWE World Wrestling Network?
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What is the pitch for Evolve? that gets WWE fans
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who are overwhelmed with content. Now we've got the Cruiserweight
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205 show, Live 205 on Tuesday nights, got NXT on
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Wednesday nights, TakeOver specials. Fans have a real variety of
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00:20:50.430 --> 00:20:53.609
product for $ 10 a month. What's your pitch to those
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fans that says, this is what our product is about,
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and this is why you should check it out?
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That's an excellent question because there is a lot of
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product available to people. I believe a big part of
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the pitch is the amount of live shows that you're
359
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going to get for $ 20 a month or $ 12. 50 a
360
00:21:10.900 --> 00:21:15.000
month if you do the $ 150 flap fee. We're going
361
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to offer an absolutely tremendous amount of live content. It's
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going to be the back catalog, which is going to
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feature a lot of the big names on their way up.
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You look at just the names we have through FIP.
365
00:21:27.049 --> 00:21:29.809
and Dragon Gate USA and Evolve. You're talking about Samoa Joe,
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CM Punk, Bryan Danielson. I mean, it just goes on
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and on and on. And as far as on my end,
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once we start making these announcements on Black Friday week
369
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and the whole vision of how the different brands of
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the WWE family become clear, we're going to offer pretty
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00:21:49.349 --> 00:21:51.710
much every style of wrestling under the planet.
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Uh.
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it's gonna be a wide variety of wrestling it's gonna
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be a wide variety of wrestlers uh... and it's it's
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gonna be a lot of bang for your buck and
376
00:22:01.339 --> 00:22:03.059
it's gonna be a lot of diversity and it's going
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to be an alternative wwe so wwe is doing a
378
00:22:06.619 --> 00:22:10.380
tremendous job on right now uh... with with
the cruiserweights
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and offering a lot of different things but they're still
380
00:22:12.569 --> 00:22:15.569
alternative ways to to protect wrestling and and that is
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what we are going to offer at a competitive price
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when it comes to the amount of life shows that
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you get.
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What about like pro wrestling is typically a star driven business. Um,
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who are the stars right now? If you say evolve
386
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as a main brand and it may continue to be,
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although like you say, black Friday, there'll be some changes
388
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or some funding. You can raise things to a new level.
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Are there, are there one, two, three, four talents or
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wrestlers to not use WWE's vernacular? Are there four pro
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wrestlers that really you think are a central reason people
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are going to get into this product?
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I believe the strength of independent wrestling is really the brands,
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and you're not going to compete with a star-powered WWE.
395
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You never will. I've been playing this game for a
396
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long time, so that's one of the lessons I've learned.
397
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:06.779
But the strength is really going to be in the
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brands and making the brands interesting. And one thing that
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is interesting about the whole Flow Sports model is if
400
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you look at the website, what their philosophy is is
401
00:23:17.710 --> 00:23:18.809
they offer a lot.
402
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Of different things.
403
00:23:20.529 --> 00:23:26.799
Gymnastics, cheerleading, amateur wrestling, MMA, and it's really the long-tail
404
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:29.900
model of marketing, if you're familiar with that, where their
405
00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:33.519
philosophy is offer a lot of different things, and every
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00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:36.859
single one of those different things will have a small audience.
407
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And if you offer enough of those small things, that
408
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.880
small audience adds up to a large audience. And this
409
00:23:44.089 --> 00:23:48.369
is what we are going to do with WWN. And
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00:23:48.470 --> 00:23:50.819
the diversity that we're going to offer and hopefully the
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00:23:50.859 --> 00:23:53.799
other independent companies that come on board, it's really about
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the long tail. It's not about going after the masses.
413
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They're not fooled. They're not thinking they're suddenly going to
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get a million subscribers or get 50% or 25% of
415
00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:06.950
what WWE is getting for their network. But we feel
416
00:24:06.970 --> 00:24:08.769
that there will be enough people that are interested in
417
00:24:08.829 --> 00:24:11.670
all these other things. In addition to the $ 150 a year,
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00:24:11.690 --> 00:24:15.859
that gives you access to everything flow sports offers. So,
419
00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:18.380
so they're hoping that we're just part of that long
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00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:21.789
tail model of marketing. And, um, and, and that's where
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we really fit in. And then that's our strength. Um,
422
00:24:24.250 --> 00:24:25.990
as far as stars go, I mean, we do offer
423
00:24:26.069 --> 00:24:30.029
great wrestling, uh, with evolve. Matt Riddle is, is a
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00:24:30.069 --> 00:24:33.109
guy who's committed to us. And, um, he has the
425
00:24:33.230 --> 00:24:35.849
it factor as much as anybody as I've ever, I've
426
00:24:36.009 --> 00:24:38.549
ever seen. And, you know, I've, I booked CM Punk
427
00:24:38.569 --> 00:24:41.539
for years and Brian Danielson for years and Samoa Joe and,
428
00:24:42.099 --> 00:24:45.200
and Seth Rollins and Kevin Owens and all those guys. And,
429
00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:49.430
and Matt Riddle has that intangible factor. Timothy Thatcher is
430
00:24:49.490 --> 00:24:53.609
our champion. Um, it's very different than everything else. And he, uh,
431
00:24:54.250 --> 00:24:56.170
I feel that he has a great deal of charisma
432
00:24:56.190 --> 00:25:00.869
and is a very interesting character. Um, and, and, uh, we,
433
00:25:01.109 --> 00:25:03.470
we do understand that, you know, we are part of
434
00:25:03.490 --> 00:25:05.779
the food chain of talent on the way up to WWE.
435
00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:08.380
And I'm very proud of the fact that, um, we
436
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.140
have guys like Drew Gulak and Tony to right now
437
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.109
seen on the, uh, on WWE Raw every week, and
438
00:25:14.210 --> 00:25:16.630
they're going to be... I'll let it slip right now.
439
00:25:16.690 --> 00:25:18.960
We're having to make some lineup changes for our Queen show,
440
00:25:19.299 --> 00:25:21.660
but it's going to be Timothy Thatcher versus Drew Gulak
441
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:25.160
for the Evolve title on November 12th in Queens, New York,
442
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:28.440
and whoever wins that match is going to face Tony
443
00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:32.269
Nese for the Evolve title on November 13th in Joppa, Maryland,
444
00:25:32.569 --> 00:25:35.269
which means on November 14th, the Evolve champion could be
445
00:25:35.309 --> 00:25:38.390
on Monday Night Raw. So we're kind of getting that
446
00:25:38.410 --> 00:25:41.309
trickle-down effect going. uh, from WWE as well, which is
447
00:25:41.390 --> 00:25:45.710
also a very interesting
situation. If you ask me, um, that, uh,
448
00:25:45.849 --> 00:25:48.369
that we can have the, the evolved champion on, on
449
00:25:48.430 --> 00:25:51.049
Monday night raw. And it really blows my mind that,
450
00:25:51.089 --> 00:25:54.319
that that's even possible at this point. Um, Chris hero,
451
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:55.980
of course, is one of the best going today. He's,
452
00:25:56.019 --> 00:25:59.740
he's been on those shows, November 12th and 13th ricochets.
453
00:25:59.319 --> 00:25:59.680
In and out.
454
00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:02.599
We have Dick Togo coming in. So we'll continue to
455
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:05.119
kind of offer this, this buffet of great talent and,
456
00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:10.210
and rising talent. And, um, And in the end, hopefully
457
00:26:10.230 --> 00:26:12.650
it'll put together a package that's enticing to the fans
458
00:26:12.710 --> 00:26:14.119
on this long-tail marketing plan.
459
00:26:15.019 --> 00:26:17.799
You mentioned WWE a couple times in the last 25 minutes.
460
00:26:18.259 --> 00:26:22.180
They invested in Flow Sports, my understanding. It came before
461
00:26:22.299 --> 00:26:25.829
they had any idea of Flow Slam. Streaming service for
462
00:26:25.869 --> 00:26:28.849
recreational sports and amateur sports was going to get into
463
00:26:28.890 --> 00:26:34.289
pro wrestling. I've heard speculation and conjecture that, oh, WWE...
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00:26:35.289 --> 00:26:39.529
has influence over and is, in fact, going to continue
465
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to have some influence over Flow Slam in some form
466
00:26:42.710 --> 00:26:44.609
or fashion. I've heard other people say, oh, they're not
467
00:26:44.670 --> 00:26:46.730
happy about this. They invested money in this company, and
468
00:26:46.750 --> 00:26:50.150
that's being used to create sort of competition to them,
469
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:54.299
and their history is they want to own everything. They
470
00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:57.000
understand there's a feeder system, but they want to fight
471
00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:59.880
it and be their own feeder system. Where is WWE
472
00:26:59.940 --> 00:27:04.170
on that spectrum, as far as your understanding goes? when
473
00:27:04.190 --> 00:27:07.099
it comes to this project, because it felt awkward at
474
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.960
the beginning that you had a really good working relationship
475
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:13.440
with them. And now suddenly they're saying, hey, everybody, we
476
00:27:13.460 --> 00:27:15.759
have a streaming service. Come over to our side and
477
00:27:15.779 --> 00:27:16.740
look at this great indie breath.
478
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:21.509
No, not awkward at all. And WWE is aware of
479
00:27:21.529 --> 00:27:26.450
what's going on. WWE, we've been very fortunate to build
480
00:27:26.470 --> 00:27:31.099
this relationship with WWE over the past year. And WWE
481
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.539
has closer ties to Flow Slam than we do. They
482
00:27:33.579 --> 00:27:36.420
knew everybody we were talking to there. Everybody at Flow
483
00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:38.799
Slam has greater access to their office than we do.
484
00:27:39.180 --> 00:27:43.380
So there's no conspiracies going on or anything like that.
485
00:27:44.990 --> 00:27:48.210
WWE knew that we were signing this deal and gave
486
00:27:48.230 --> 00:27:53.670
their blessings. So it's just one of those situations. WWE
487
00:27:53.710 --> 00:27:57.519
is an investor in this company. And everything, as far
488
00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:00.640
as our relationship goes, it's stronger than ever. We have
489
00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:04.279
William Regal, their director of scouting. He is coming to
490
00:28:04.339 --> 00:28:06.859
our show on November 13th in Joppa, Maryland. He's going
491
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:09.900
to be signing autographs for the fans. And beforehand, we
492
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.440
got a seminar tryout for wrestlers. And I just want
493
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.759
to say something about Mr. Regal while I have an opportunity.
494
00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:18.859
He is an absolute credit to the wrestling industry and
495
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.220
the help that he has given us and the wrestlers.
496
00:28:23.009 --> 00:28:25.940
He did our seminar tryouts. as a special guest a
497
00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:28.829
couple weeks ago in Florida and I've been doing it
498
00:28:28.849 --> 00:28:31.250
for 23 years I learned new things at that seminar
499
00:28:31.269 --> 00:28:35.049
tryout that helped me help talent get better that I
500
00:28:35.069 --> 00:28:37.049
can give to talent now and he sat there and
501
00:28:37.069 --> 00:28:40.009
he talked to everybody individually that was involved in that
502
00:28:40.049 --> 00:28:43.789
seminar tryout and watched all their matches and some of
503
00:28:43.809 --> 00:28:45.289
these guys are good and some of them had no
504
00:28:45.349 --> 00:28:47.329
chance but he still gave them all time and all
505
00:28:47.369 --> 00:28:50.450
advice and he is an absolute asset to the entire
506
00:28:50.509 --> 00:28:53.099
wrestling industry And we're fortunate to have him back on
507
00:28:53.140 --> 00:28:56.200
November 13th for both the seminar tryout and to meet
508
00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:59.630
with the fans too. And there's other stuff in the
509
00:28:59.670 --> 00:29:03.809
works too. So our relationship with WWE is stronger than ever.
510
00:29:03.890 --> 00:29:08.369
They're very progressive thinking right now towards the indies. Triple
511
00:29:08.549 --> 00:29:11.849
H is really leading a movement there and a change
512
00:29:11.869 --> 00:29:15.410
in their paradigm towards the indies. And he's backing up
513
00:29:16.190 --> 00:29:20.660
his ideas by helping out when he can. And it's
514
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:22.819
been an absolutely tremendous relationship, and it's going to continue
515
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:23.819
going forward in the future.
516
00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:27.380
Do they have any influence over what goes on with
517
00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:29.630
Flow Slam? I mean, are they in any way a
518
00:29:29.690 --> 00:29:34.369
partner or steering things, or are they saying, you do
519
00:29:34.410 --> 00:29:38.390
your thing, and there's an understanding that the territory is
520
00:29:38.430 --> 00:29:42.279
just different, not overlapping? all that much, and it's completely independent?
521
00:29:43.940 --> 00:29:45.240
That would be above my pay.
522
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:49.220
Grade, so I don't know what the conversations between Flow
523
00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:54.269
Slam and WWE are. I just know that they gave
524
00:29:54.289 --> 00:29:57.819
their blessing with signing this deal, and our relationship which
525
00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:01.539
has been very helpful to us over the last year,
526
00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:02.619
is going to continue.
527
00:30:03.579 --> 00:30:06.740
Okay, yep. Well, Gabe, we're at the 30-minute mark. We've
528
00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:08.440
got to have you back on when more news develops,
529
00:30:08.849 --> 00:30:12.049
and hopefully when people start seeing these shows who hadn't
530
00:30:12.089 --> 00:30:16.069
seen them before, start wanting to talk about them. You know,
531
00:30:16.089 --> 00:30:19.589
this will reach a new... a new customer who just
532
00:30:20.210 --> 00:30:25.000
didn't feel the pay-per-view model was for them, but the
533
00:30:25.059 --> 00:30:27.440
idea of catching up on a back catalog and having
534
00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:31.160
that quantity of live events, along with whatever else you
535
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.960
have up your sleeve in terms of the new funding
536
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:36.119
that allows you to play at a higher level, what
537
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:39.049
that produces. So I assume you'll continue to make news,
538
00:30:39.109 --> 00:30:42.630
and it's exciting times. My final question, do you agree
539
00:30:42.690 --> 00:30:48.170
that this is a boon to at least– more than
540
00:30:48.210 --> 00:30:52.710
a handful of indie wrestlers or even WWE, TNA, ROH
541
00:30:52.730 --> 00:30:55.829
wrestlers in the long run in that the funding that
542
00:30:55.890 --> 00:30:59.380
Flow Sports is injecting into the wrestling industry on a
543
00:30:59.410 --> 00:31:03.420
lower level than WWE is creating some job opportunities for
544
00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:05.799
people to work full-time who otherwise might have had to
545
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:06.400
look elsewhere.
546
00:31:07.779 --> 00:31:10.000
Well, there's a lot of opportunities right now. It's very
547
00:31:10.019 --> 00:31:13.200
competitive and a lot of guys are making a living
548
00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:16.329
outside of WWE and compared to like five years ago.
549
00:31:16.390 --> 00:31:19.029
It's a completely different world right now. But yeah, it
550
00:31:19.049 --> 00:31:19.569
definitely helps.
551
00:31:19.609 --> 00:31:22.490
I mean, I'm, you know, before I was a year ago,
552
00:31:22.569 --> 00:31:25.819
we were doing two shows every six to eight weeks.
553
00:31:26.539 --> 00:31:29.000
And now we have to produce five live events a month.
554
00:31:29.380 --> 00:31:32.900
So right there, you know, that's a big difference. But yeah,
555
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:34.799
I mean, this is only going to help the health
556
00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:36.609
of independent wrestling. There's no doubt about that.
557
00:31:37.109 --> 00:31:39.130
There's a trickle-down effect in the sense that there'll be
558
00:31:39.170 --> 00:31:42.150
wrestlers who otherwise might have said, you know, I just
559
00:31:42.170 --> 00:31:44.710
can't do this anymore. um, there's, there's not enough money
560
00:31:44.750 --> 00:31:47.329
in it. More, some of those, there'll be more wrestlers
561
00:31:47.390 --> 00:31:49.250
earning livings because of this deal.
562
00:31:50.549 --> 00:31:53.750
Well, I believe with, with, uh, with flow slam and
563
00:31:53.789 --> 00:31:55.190
the fact that we're able to put on more shows,
564
00:31:55.450 --> 00:31:56.539
but I mean, a lot of it has to do
565
00:31:56.579 --> 00:31:59.099
with the, I don't hear that from wrestlers anymore because
566
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.359
they look at what's going on in WWE. And you
567
00:32:01.380 --> 00:32:03.240
look at the guys, I mean, in the last year
568
00:32:03.259 --> 00:32:07.700
and evolve, we've had TJ Perkins, Cedric Alexander, um, drew Gulak,
569
00:32:07.740 --> 00:32:10.799
Tony niece. Um, you know, we had Rick Swan before that,
570
00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:13.710
this music who's now in their system, um, And those
571
00:32:13.769 --> 00:32:16.589
are guys, Roderick Strong was going to have a run
572
00:32:16.609 --> 00:32:18.990
with us, and then he got signed. You know, Tommy End,
573
00:32:19.369 --> 00:32:21.849
Johnny Gargano was a mainstay with us. I mean, that's
574
00:32:21.910 --> 00:32:24.390
a lot of guys that have wrestled in Evolve in
575
00:32:24.410 --> 00:32:27.150
the last year that have now moved on to WWE
576
00:32:27.170 --> 00:32:30.640
that two years ago probably wouldn't have been taken, or
577
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:33.519
even a year ago wouldn't have been taken. So people
578
00:32:33.619 --> 00:32:38.420
see that the opportunity is there. And now I believe
579
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:42.099
that these wrestlers are more motivated than ever because there's
580
00:32:42.140 --> 00:32:43.759
an end goal this isn't like the kind of thing
581
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:46.480
where they can scratch out selling some t-shirts on the
582
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.029
indies and making a payday there now there's a place
583
00:32:50.049 --> 00:32:53.410
to go and there's opportunity and I believe a lot
584
00:32:53.430 --> 00:32:55.529
of these guys are going to take full advantage of
585
00:32:55.549 --> 00:32:59.470
that and make the most out of it so it's
586
00:32:59.509
--> 00:33:01.309
a great time to be a professional wrestler right now
587
00:33:01.390 --> 00:33:03.470
I'll just put it that way five years ago it
588
00:33:03.509 --> 00:33:05.410
wasn't a great time there was a lot of motivation
589
00:33:05.430 --> 00:33:07.329
that you had to do now it's a great.
590
00:33:07.190 --> 00:33:09.519
Time Are you more excited than you've been in a while?
591
00:33:11.349 --> 00:33:15.519
I can't wait to like the, the, when we get
592
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:18.059
everything all set black Friday week and people see what
593
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:19.420
the vision of this is going to be. And I
594
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:21.740
get to dive in creative wise, it's going to be
595
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:25.880
like the most challenging and most fulfilling and, and, and just,
596
00:33:26.420 --> 00:33:29.240
it's going to be amazing from a creative standpoint of,
597
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:30.940
of what we're going to be able to dive in
598
00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:33.569
and do. And I can't wait to really just turn
599
00:33:33.589 --> 00:33:37.269
my full attention to it and, and, and make this happen. It's,
600
00:33:37.450 --> 00:33:41.000
it's going to be, it's, It's going to be amazing.
601
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.460
I just can't wait to get started with it.
602
00:33:43.460 --> 00:33:46.920
Excellent, Gabe. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
603
00:33:47.619 --> 00:33:51.420
Gabe is the VP of Talent Relations for WWN and Creative,
604
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:52.240
and also.
605
00:33:55.460 --> 00:33:58.539
Mainstay and Survivor. And opening that for Steve Austin.
606
00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:00.039
Very good.
607
00:34:00.140 --> 00:34:01.000
Thanks.
608
00:34:01.180 --> 00:34:05.640
Gabe Sapolsky here on PWTorch Livecast Interview Thursday, and we'll
609
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:08.599
talk to him, I'm sure, soon down the line. I'm
610
00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:12.400
very much eager to see what they have going, what
611
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:16.059
is up their sleeve. I think any injection of cash
612
00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:22.130
into the wrestling industry in general, but especially at a
613
00:34:22.150 --> 00:34:24.690
lower level, to help guys have a chance to make
614
00:34:24.730 --> 00:34:25.949
some money and even just have a little bit of
615
00:34:25.989 --> 00:34:29.150
leverage when it comes to, say, an NXT deal. And go,
616
00:34:29.170 --> 00:34:31.989
you know what, this NXT deal is nice, but I
617
00:34:32.010 --> 00:34:33.849
think I'll become a better wrestler if I spend the
618
00:34:33.889 --> 00:34:37.429
next two years singing for my supper, doing things out
619
00:34:37.449 --> 00:34:39.650
in front of actual paying indie fans across the country
620
00:34:39.670 --> 00:34:42.969
and the world. And then we'll see the NXT option.
621
00:34:43.469 --> 00:34:44.800
For some people, they want to go to NXT and
622
00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:46.320
be part of that structure, and who can blame them?
623
00:34:46.429 --> 00:34:48.860
Other people are a little bit more free spirit, so
624
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:51.400
they just want to be more entrepreneurial. And this injection
625
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.360
of cash with this new streaming service is creating some options.
626
00:34:55.420 --> 00:34:57.599
So that's very exciting. All right, I'm going to go
627
00:34:57.659 --> 00:34:59.559
to a very short break here at the bottom of
628
00:34:59.579 --> 00:35:01.179
the hour. We're five minutes late with that. When we
629
00:35:01.219 --> 00:35:03.760
come back, Steve Austin is my guest. We've got some
630
00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:08.929
exciting things to talk about with Steve. If you're like me,
631
00:35:08.989 --> 00:35:12.750
you've got a list. Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti
632
00:35:12.769 --> 00:35:15.110
when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well,
633
00:35:15.139 --> 00:35:17.039
now you can listen to him every week on the
634
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:20.340
Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell
635
00:35:20.380 --> 00:35:20.760
you more.
636
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:23.320
Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
637
00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:25.420
the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
638
00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:28.389
comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE.
639
00:35:28.469 --> 00:35:31.389
From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered.
640
00:35:31.550 --> 00:35:33.750
The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest
641
00:35:33.769 --> 00:35:34.349
club in town.
642
00:35:34.570 --> 00:35:36.369
Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling
643
00:35:36.389 --> 00:35:40.719
life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com
644
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.920
slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible
645
00:35:43.940 --> 00:35:47.239
with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other
646
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:49.380
iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream
647
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:52.420
directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting
648
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:57.869
for you every week at PWTorch VIP. You are going
649
00:35:57.929 --> 00:36:00.530
to enjoy the hell out of this Steve Austin interview.
650
00:36:00.929 --> 00:36:04.070
So here we go. With well over an hour of
651
00:36:04.090 --> 00:36:07.369
Steve Austin hitting a lot of hot button hot topics
652
00:36:07.630 --> 00:36:10.150
in current events in pro wrestling, and some UFC talk
653
00:36:10.190 --> 00:36:13.050
at the end. Ronda Rousey, Conor McGregor, some talk about
654
00:36:13.090 --> 00:36:16.360
Broken Skull Challenge. The new series starts a week from Sunday.
655
00:36:16.739 --> 00:36:18.119
The new season of that series starts a week from
656
00:36:18.139 --> 00:36:22.260
Sunday on CMT. It's a really good interview. And as
657
00:36:22.300 -->
00:36:25.610
somebody said on Twitter, while the interview was going on,
658
00:36:26.769 --> 00:36:30.230
school is in session. And we now begin that class.
659
00:36:32.150 --> 00:36:36.400
All right, we are back. and it is time for
660
00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:40.170
the second guest on the program. Returning to the show,
661
00:36:40.309 --> 00:36:42.369
Stone Cold Steve Austin. Welcome back to the show, Steve.
662
00:36:43.449 --> 00:36:44.190
What's happening, Wade?
663
00:36:44.929 --> 00:36:46.690
Always good to hear your voice, Steve. Thank you for
664
00:36:46.710 --> 00:36:49.369
taking the time to join us today. Gabe Sapolsky was
665
00:36:49.409 --> 00:36:51.969
a guest at the beginning of the show, and he
666
00:36:51.989 --> 00:36:54.079
was chuckling over being the opening act for you, and
667
00:36:54.099 --> 00:36:57.460
he said that the first big name that he ever
668
00:36:57.500 --> 00:36:59.840
called in professional wrestling when he was an assistant for
669
00:36:59.900 --> 00:37:02.260
Paul Heyman in ECW was was to call you and
670
00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:05.059
give you flight information. And he was not sure if
671
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:07.559
you'd remember him or his voice at that time, but
672
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:08.760
he was chuckling over that.
673
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.239
Well, that's pretty cool. Obviously, he's gone on to bigger
674
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:14.070
and better things and has had a great run. And
675
00:37:14.090 --> 00:37:16.630
just from catching the back end of your conversation, sounds
676
00:37:16.670 --> 00:37:18.269
like he's got some interesting things going on.
677
00:37:19.170 --> 00:37:22.030
Absolutely, yeah. I'm excited. You know, the technology in this
678
00:37:22.070 --> 00:37:24.590
industry is so different than, I mean, every five years
679
00:37:24.610 --> 00:37:27.570
it changes. Every 10 years it is revolutionized. And the
680
00:37:27.610 --> 00:37:32.110
streaming approach changes. with WWE Network continues to be, or
681
00:37:32.130 --> 00:37:34.210
the streaming approach which WWE is doing with the network
682
00:37:34.710 --> 00:37:37.050
continues to be really exciting. I mean, for me in
683
00:37:37.070 --> 00:37:40.429
my position covering wrestling full-time to have all of these
684
00:37:40.510 --> 00:37:43.429
shows now that, I mean, it's a little overwhelming. You know,
685
00:37:43.469 --> 00:37:45.760
now the live 205 show they just announced yesterday, a
686
00:37:45.820 --> 00:37:48.460
cruiserweight show that's going to be on after SmackDown on
687
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.940
the network, essentially expanding Tuesday nights to three hours of
688
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:54.000
live wrestling, and all these pay-per-views that are now available
689
00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:55.980
at a much more reasonable price, so more people are
690
00:37:56.019 --> 00:37:59.420
seeing them. And now this flow, slow slam project where
691
00:37:59.460 --> 00:38:01.739
indie
wrestlers have more of an opportunity to make money.
692
00:38:02.300 --> 00:38:05.210
It's it's cool. You toiled. You've told the stories of,
693
00:38:05.369 --> 00:38:07.550
you know, tuna fish out of the can in Memphis.
694
00:38:07.650 --> 00:38:10.369
And I mean, it's tough being an indie wrestler, Steve,
695
00:38:10.530 --> 00:38:14.409
and any kind of influx of money in any era,
696
00:38:14.570 --> 00:38:17.139
any indie promoter having any kind of success generating revenue
697
00:38:17.739 --> 00:38:20.099
is really good for developing talent. I mean, that the
698
00:38:20.139 --> 00:38:24.800
time you spent outside of WCW and WWE helped shape
699
00:38:24.820 --> 00:38:28.469
the Yeah, man, the indie scene is very interesting. And obviously,
700
00:38:28.550 --> 00:38:28.989
I haven't.
701
00:38:30.460 --> 00:38:37.190
Spent a whole lot of time in it. And talking
702
00:38:37.210 --> 00:38:40.079
with Kurt Angle just last week, he's enjoying a lot
703
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:43.980
of the creative freedom that he's able to exercise in
704
00:38:44.019 --> 00:38:45.699
that system. And of course, Kurt Angle is a Hall
705
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:48.280
of Famer. Who knows if he'll ever back up with
706
00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:51.929
WWE or whatever. But I love that business or that
707
00:38:51.989 --> 00:38:54.570
scene seems to be thriving right now. And like Gabe
708
00:38:54.590 --> 00:38:57.329
was saying, I mean, hell, a lot of people in
709
00:38:57.349 --> 00:38:59.719
that system have gone on to WWE who might not
710
00:38:59.739 --> 00:39:01.559
have had that opportunity a while back.
711
00:39:03.230 --> 00:39:07.130
Absolutely. I want to talk about you're involved not just
712
00:39:07.190 --> 00:39:10.849
in pro wrestling still and podcasting, but also Broken Skull
713
00:39:11.030 --> 00:39:13.730
Ranch Challenge. You've got a new season coming up. When
714
00:39:13.750 --> 00:39:15.690
does that premiere on CMT? Is that next? Is it
715
00:39:15.730 --> 00:39:17.360
next Wednesday? I meant to look it up.
716
00:39:17.429 --> 00:39:19.570
No, no, it's going to be on. I'm glad you
717
00:39:19.590 --> 00:39:21.809
brought that up. It's going to be November 13th, 10,
718
00:39:21.809 --> 00:39:26.139
9 central on CMT. It's Broken Skull Challenge season 4.
719
00:39:26.139 --> 00:39:28.780
I'm looking forward to it, man. We scoured the United
720
00:39:28.820 --> 00:39:32.969
States for the best CrossFit athletes, amateur wrestlers, Spartan racers,
721
00:39:33.030 --> 00:39:36.960
Tough Mudders. We had some UFC people come down this year. So,
722
00:39:37.460 --> 00:39:40.239
you know, the show started off. People wondered what it was.
723
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:41.940
And all of a sudden, man, we've got the best
724
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:44.800
of the best from the Spartan world. And obstacle course
725
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:47.800
racing is really starting to get big in the United States.
726
00:39:47.860 --> 00:39:49.860
It has been over the past five or ten years.
727
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:53.289
It's even bigger over in Europe. So now we're getting
728
00:39:53.309 --> 00:39:54.610
some of the cream of the crop coming out to
729
00:39:54.630 --> 00:39:56.969
the show because, you know, it's a great opportunity. They
730
00:39:57.010 --> 00:39:59.750
see how tough it is. The course is one, and
731
00:39:59.849 --> 00:40:01.630
ours is like a sprint course as far as an
732
00:40:01.769 --> 00:40:04.769
obstacle course would be because a lot of these people
733
00:40:04.789 --> 00:40:07.949
are running three-, four-mile obstacle course races and even longer.
734
00:40:08.590 --> 00:40:11.340
Ours is a half-mile with 10 badass obstacles, so it's
735
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:14.320
more like a sprint for some of these cats. But nonetheless,
736
00:40:14.380 --> 00:40:17.039
you've got to go through three rounds of tough head-to-head
737
00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:20.800
competition with another individual that may not be as good
738
00:40:20.860 --> 00:40:24.179
of a– uh, OCR athlete as you are, but maybe
739
00:40:24.260 --> 00:40:26.670
just one bad stick of wood and may send you
740
00:40:26.730 --> 00:40:29.670
home entrenched or may send you home because their body
741
00:40:29.710 --> 00:40:31.809
and their mind is more designed to, uh, for a
742
00:40:31.829 --> 00:40:34.590
specific challenge to send you home. So, Hey man, it's
743
00:40:34.630 --> 00:40:37.079
competition at its best. It's the only competition show on
744
00:40:37.739 --> 00:40:40.760
television where it's head to head combat in the first round.
745
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:42.800
And then of course, at the end, which is called
746
00:40:42.820 --> 00:40:45.210
a skill buster. So it's, I created a show with
747
00:40:45.250 --> 00:40:47.849
a friend of mine. We pitched to CMT. They had
748
00:40:47.869 --> 00:40:50.590
the guts enough to pick it up, and people have
749
00:40:50.610 --> 00:40:54.800
been flocking to that channel, CMT, Channel 327 on DirecTV
750
00:40:55.070 --> 00:40:58.070
ever since. And so I love the show. I love
751
00:40:58.090 --> 00:41:01.679
filming the show. I just really enjoy the reality television
752
00:41:01.699 --> 00:41:02.420
space of TV.
753
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:05.659
I know from the previous times we've talked about this
754
00:41:05.739 --> 00:41:10.420
on this show, this is kind of scratching an itch
755
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:13.469
that you have to be involved in something where there's
756
00:41:13.550 --> 00:41:16.650
all these different boxes that get checked. One, you get
757
00:41:16.690 --> 00:41:21.250
to be around athletes being competitive. It's intense. It's television.
758
00:41:21.690 --> 00:41:25.739
You're on camera. And the other aspect, which I know
759
00:41:25.929 --> 00:41:28.059
is something that drove you too, is just the business side.
760
00:41:28.099 --> 00:41:31.000
How are the ratings? What are the demographics? All of that.
761
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:34.000
To me, I know when you talk about it and
762
00:41:34.039 --> 00:41:36.400
just seeing you on the show, this isn't something that
763
00:41:36.460 --> 00:41:38.139
somebody came to you and said, hey, we need a
764
00:41:38.179 --> 00:41:42.269
star who's the face of this show. You actually, I think,
765
00:41:42.309 --> 00:41:45.070
are really immersed in this, and it's a really fulfilling
766
00:41:45.110 --> 00:41:45.710
project for you.
767
00:41:46.690 --> 00:41:49.079
Well, it really is, and I love the project. A
768
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:51.599
few years ago, I was at my ranch in South Texas.
769
00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:54.159
As a matter of fact, Shawn Michaels was down there.
770
00:41:54.179 --> 00:41:56.179
We were in the yard shooting our bows at Target's.
771
00:41:56.860 --> 00:41:59.840
I got a phone call from my agent, and CMT said, hey, man,
772
00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:01.699
we want to see if Steve wants to host a
773
00:42:01.739 --> 00:42:04.760
show we've got called Redneck Island. Well, they explained that
774
00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:07.739
to me. We got the business numbers right. I said, okay,
775
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:11.000
we'll jump in here. I'll host a show for you,
776
00:42:11.380 --> 00:42:14.460
but in return, we want to pitch you a specific
777
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.559
show that we've got. So when we went in there,
778
00:42:17.579 --> 00:42:21.250
we had five successful seasons with Redneck Island, discontinued. and
779
00:42:21.289 --> 00:42:24.150
now we're going into season four of Broken Skull Challenge.
780
00:42:24.170 --> 00:42:27.289
But they love this idea. And again, yeah, no one
781
00:42:27.349 --> 00:42:30.710
hired me on. It was my pitch to CMT, 51
782
00:42:30.710 --> 00:42:34.570
Minds is our production company. And I didn't think CMT
783
00:42:34.590 --> 00:42:36.170
was going to buy into it because I thought they
784
00:42:36.190 --> 00:42:39.309
were looking for something a little bit more humor-based, something
785
00:42:39.329 --> 00:42:42.630
almost like Wipeout. And they said, no, no, no. They said,
786
00:42:42.650 --> 00:42:46.110
let's go hardcore. Let's go badass competition. I said, that's
787
00:42:46.130 --> 00:42:48.670
what I'm talking about because that's what I wanted to see.
788
00:42:48.730 --> 00:42:51.829
And Wade, throughout my whole entire life, whether it's Little
789
00:42:51.869 --> 00:42:56.889
League Baseball, high school football, college football, track, and into
790
00:42:56.929 --> 00:43:02.139
my competitive years as a professional wrestler, wrestling is a work,
791
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:05.920
but I love hardcore, heavy-duty competition. Didn't see anything like
792
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:08.960
it on television. You've got some other shows that have
793
00:43:08.980 --> 00:43:11.480
been sprung out of Broken Skull Challenge, and of course
794
00:43:11.500 --> 00:43:15.019
you used to have Gladiators back in the day. You've
795
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:17.219
got American Ninja Warrior, which is a great show, but
796
00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:20.420
those are people running against the course. They're not going
797
00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:22.940
head-to-head with the bad son of a bitch before you
798
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.920
can get the right to run that skullbuster. So I
799
00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:29.539
dig it. And while we're filming, because we filmed that
800
00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:32.260
show about 50 miles out of L.A., and rather than
801
00:43:32.300 --> 00:43:34.510
drive back and forth to set every single day, that
802
00:43:34.530 --> 00:43:36.909
would take too much time to be able to get
803
00:43:37.090 --> 00:43:40.360
both of my podcasts in. to get my workout in,
804
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:42.320
to get some copy down just as far as the
805
00:43:42.380 --> 00:43:45.329
rules go from everything from there, you know, everything is
806
00:43:45.349 --> 00:43:47.750
an ad lib, but I live out there on set
807
00:43:47.769 --> 00:43:49.769
in a bad ass trailer. I've got a gym, I've
808
00:43:49.789 --> 00:43:51.750
got my Kawasaki Mule that I trek around in the
809
00:43:51.769 --> 00:43:54.389
mountains on. So, you know, even though you work your
810
00:43:54.469 --> 00:43:56.489
ass off all day and it's kind of like working
811
00:43:56.510 --> 00:43:59.730
in a sandblaster because you're on a mountain in a desert,
812
00:43:59.769 --> 00:44:05.130
the wind is constantly blowing. Sometimes it's 104, sometimes it's 34.
813
00:44:05.130 --> 00:44:08.219
So it's a challenging environment. But, you know, when you're
814
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:09.900
out there hanging out with the best athletes in the
815
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:13.059
world and how highly competitive these men and women are,
816
00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:16.219
and your job is to make them look like superstars,
817
00:44:16.579 --> 00:44:19.730
your job is to provide them, you know, a place
818
00:44:19.809 --> 00:44:25.369
for level competition, straight up, no BS. And that's what
819
00:44:25.409 --> 00:44:26.130
I like about the show.
820
00:44:28.869 --> 00:44:32.280
Absolutely. And the show, I mean, I've watched some of
821
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:34.840
the show. and I get a kick out of it.
822
00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:36.340
I get drawn into it. If I don't even know
823
00:44:36.409 --> 00:44:38.050
it's on and I'm flipping through the channel, I'm like,
824
00:44:38.090 --> 00:44:39.570
I've got to turn this on and watch this. And
825
00:44:39.909 --> 00:44:45.010
I really like the intensity and the seriousness of the
826
00:44:45.050 --> 00:44:47.230
competitors on the show. I'm going to use that as
827
00:44:47.250 --> 00:44:50.250
a little parlay into wrestling philosophy. One of the things
828
00:44:50.289 --> 00:44:51.929
that's going on, and I know you're not watching Raw
829
00:44:51.949 --> 00:44:56.389
every week, you're busy with other stuff, is frivolity. Todd
830
00:44:56.429 --> 00:44:58.849
Martin introduced that term to me as, I think, a
831
00:44:58.889 --> 00:45:02.579
fitting term. Main event acts right now in WWE are
832
00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:06.159
involved in frivolity, a lot of humor. And I'm entertained
833
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:08.599
by the segments. I see why they think it'll entertain
834
00:45:08.619 --> 00:45:12.219
their audience. What I'm missing right now, and I'm curious
835
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:16.510
from what you're sampling and watching of WWE lately, if
836
00:45:16.590 --> 00:45:19.670
it's a top critique of yours, because everybody's got their
837
00:45:19.710 --> 00:45:22.329
ideas and Vince has bombarded with them. I want to
838
00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:26.630
see that sense of, even though it's a simulation or
839
00:45:26.670 --> 00:45:28.809
a work or whatever label you put on it, I
840
00:45:28.929 --> 00:45:31.349
miss right now, and I've realized it over the last month,
841
00:45:31.530 --> 00:45:35.309
it really clicked. I miss that sense of intensity and
842
00:45:35.449 --> 00:45:39.780
competition that pulls me into that aspect of the wrestling show.
843
00:45:39.820 --> 00:45:42.559
And I'm seeing a little too much of what WWE
844
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:46.019
and Vince call the sports entertainment aspect of it. That's
845
00:45:46.059 --> 00:45:48.380
one of the reasons I like Charlotte and Sasha Banks
846
00:45:48.420 --> 00:45:52.059
and their feud. Even though it's not– the promos aren't
847
00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:55.119
perfect in the category that I'm speaking of, it gets
848
00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:59.460
a really good grade. It feels like they're competing– They're intense,
849
00:45:59.619 --> 00:46:02.340
and they want to win, and then they want to
850
00:46:02.409 --> 00:46:04.949
celebrate victory, and they're going to be in agony if
851
00:46:04.969 --> 00:46:08.030
they get defeated. Does that jump out to you as
852
00:46:08.130 --> 00:46:12.289
kind of uniquely different in today's scene than in past eras,
853
00:46:12.329 --> 00:46:14.230
that there's a lot more frivolity at the top of
854
00:46:14.269 --> 00:46:15.630
the card rather than mid-card and lower?
855
00:46:16.909 --> 00:46:18.820
Man, I think there is a lot of that going
856
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:21.320
on right now, just because last night I got on
857
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:23.760
DVR and watched SmackDown, and I was watching the angle
858
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:27.760
between AJ Styles and Dean Ambrose. And what's the name
859
00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:28.940
of the kid that got involved in that?
860
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:30.440
James Ellsworth.
861
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:34.699
Ellsworth. Now, guy, I give props to the kid. He's
862
00:46:34.739 --> 00:46:37.739
doing his job and he's doing a good job of it.
863
00:46:38.690 --> 00:46:42.909
You know, it's interesting, but I go back, you know,
864
00:46:42.949 --> 00:46:45.269
I'm old school. I'm 51. So I go back to
865
00:46:45.289 --> 00:46:48.699
the hardcore days of that Attitude Era stuff when Man,
866
00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:51.159
I believe it was 100% real. And, you know, of course,
867
00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:53.690
everybody knows that when I speak of the Attitude Era,
868
00:46:53.789 --> 00:46:56.869
my favorite era, my personally favorite era is stuff in
869
00:46:56.889 --> 00:47:01.800
the mid-' 80s. All that NWA stuff, the world-class stuff, the
870
00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:05.000
stuff that Bill Watts was doing. And, you know, AWA
871
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:06.340
was kind of starting to get on a little bit
872
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:08.860
of a decline at that point. WWF was still slipping
873
00:47:08.900 --> 00:47:12.909
on banana peels. So that's my favorite stuff. To go
874
00:47:12.929 --> 00:47:16.550
back to what you're saying about the frivolity, man, a
875
00:47:16.670 --> 00:47:19.210
little bit here and there, but in your top angles, man,
876
00:47:19.269 --> 00:47:22.309
I see a hard time drawing money with that to
877
00:47:22.329 --> 00:47:22.849
the arenas.
878
00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:27.119
You know that last segment you're just listening to and
879
00:47:27.139 --> 00:47:29.179
the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those
880
00:47:29.219 --> 00:47:31.719
can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You
881
00:47:31.739 --> 00:47:35.900
can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash
882
00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:40.650
GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash govip.
883
00:47:40.989 --> 00:47:44.710
Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account,
884
00:47:44.829 --> 00:47:46.769
through Patreon, which by the way, you can sync up
885
00:47:46.809 --> 00:47:49.980
with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app.
886
00:47:50.139 --> 00:47:52.980
With a full VIP membership, you can customize the feed
887
00:47:53.019 --> 00:47:56.360
for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go
888
00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:00.039
to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on all the
889
00:48:00.179 --> 00:48:03.650
options to listen commercial free. And with upper tier options,
890
00:48:03.989 --> 00:48:07.070
unlock our VIP exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week
891
00:48:07.130 --> 00:48:13.590
every week. That's the issue. WWE is not just in
892
00:48:13.610 --> 00:48:18.250
the business of attracting fans who don't like pro wrestling
893
00:48:18.329 --> 00:48:22.159
to watch Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Their business is
894
00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:25.199
now getting a lot of people, millions of people, to
895
00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:28.139
pay $ 10 a month primarily to see wrestling shows, with
896
00:48:28.179 --> 00:48:30.219
all due respect to the hidden camera prank shows and
897
00:48:30.579 --> 00:48:32.780
the McFoley reality series and that kind of thing, or
898
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:37.760
Legends House. It is driven by the competition. in the
899
00:48:37.820 --> 00:48:40.940
culmination of everything on TV leading to a match. And
900
00:48:40.980 --> 00:48:42.980
I think they're undercutting that a little bit in their
901
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.500
attempt to just hang on to the ratings or appeal
902
00:48:45.539 --> 00:48:48.969
to people who don't want to see two personalities clash.
903
00:48:49.429 --> 00:48:53.510
Triple H, though, and his role and everybody with NXT
904
00:48:54.090 --> 00:48:56.550
continue to create a wrestling product that still clicks with
905
00:48:56.590 --> 00:49:00.230
me so much in all these little things that they do.
906
00:49:01.050 --> 00:49:03.510
I know you see some of the NXT TakeOver specials,
907
00:49:03.550 --> 00:49:05.920
probably not too much of the weekly TV show. But
908
00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:08.800
kind of big picture, do you recognize when you see
909
00:49:08.920 --> 00:49:14.409
NXT something that reminds you of the best eras of
910
00:49:14.449 --> 00:49:16.349
wrestling that you were either part of as a wrestler
911
00:49:16.730 --> 00:49:18.769
or watched as a fan? Because I think there's some
912
00:49:18.829 --> 00:49:22.179
timeless elements that are present in NXT that are clicking
913
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:24.760
with me that WWE maybe has lost their way on
914
00:49:24.780 --> 00:49:25.139
a little bit.
915
00:49:26.139 --> 00:49:28.619
Well, I think it's just basically the simplicity of the show.
916
00:49:28.909 --> 00:49:31.590
I mean, you don't have, I mean, you've got these
917
00:49:31.710 --> 00:49:35.469
angles that are wrestling-based. The announcers are staying within the system.
918
00:49:35.489 --> 00:49:38.230
They're not talking about anything going on in pop culture anymore.
919
00:49:38.989 --> 00:49:41.809
You know, go back, shoot several months ago when, you know,
920
00:49:42.050 --> 00:49:47.840
I think Corey made the comment that, you know, Bobby
921
00:49:47.889 --> 00:49:50.239
Roode had flown in because he wanted to spend his
922
00:49:50.420 --> 00:49:54.480
least amount of time in Manhattan as possible. So just
923
00:49:54.519 --> 00:49:57.519
sticking within those parameters and announcing, I think, is a
924
00:49:57.539 --> 00:50:00.090
little bit better on the NXT front right now. But
925
00:50:00.130 --> 00:50:03.579
just the action in the ring. it's a better look.
926
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:05.719
It's kind of dimmed down a little bit. It's not
927
00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:08.159
too dark. I thought Lucha Underground was too dark this
928
00:50:08.199 --> 00:50:11.780
year from a visual standpoint. I like the production values.
929
00:50:12.440 --> 00:50:14.059
I like their interest in music. I like what they're
930
00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:16.260
doing in the ring. Of course, they've got one of
931
00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:20.159
my favorite tag teams down there with Revival, and I
932
00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:25.860
like what they're doing. Monday Night Raw, and again, credit
933
00:50:25.900 --> 00:50:28.780
or
smackdown, credit to the James Elwood guy. He's doing
934
00:50:28.820 --> 00:50:31.789
a great job, but Man, I'm all about the serious stuff.
935
00:50:31.909 --> 00:50:36.190
You know, wrestling is a very serious subject for me.
936
00:50:36.329 --> 00:50:38.630
And people would sit out there and say, well, you
937
00:50:38.849 --> 00:50:40.929
did a lot of comedy, Steve. Well, yeah, I did.
938
00:50:40.949 --> 00:50:42.650
I had three broke bones in my back. I had
939
00:50:42.670 --> 00:50:44.969
to do something to be an entertainer. So I went
940
00:50:45.030 --> 00:50:47.090
out and did what I did, push the envelope creatively.
941
00:50:47.130 --> 00:50:49.230
But still, at the end of the day, I took
942
00:50:49.269 --> 00:50:52.070
what I did very seriously. So anyway, just not to
943
00:50:52.110 --> 00:50:54.159
beat a dead horse, I'm with you on that. And
944
00:50:54.500 --> 00:50:57.579
this is not an indictment from Steve Austin onto the company.
945
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:00.030
You know, it's just... They're following their vision, their path.
946
00:51:00.329 --> 00:51:02.610
Let me ask you a question, Wade, because you talk
947
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:06.960
about how, you know, much the network is doing right now.
948
00:51:07.420 --> 00:51:09.360
As a business model, I think it was a very
949
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:11.119
smart call for Vince to make the move. They had
950
00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:13.500
their headaches before they, you know, with the launch and
951
00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:16.539
all the problems it had after that. But is that
952
00:51:16.579 --> 00:51:19.320
thing spinning up and is the subscription rate where they
953
00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:21.409
wanted it or needed it to be at this point
954
00:51:21.449 --> 00:51:22.909
with all the countries now being involved?
955
00:51:25.269 --> 00:51:28.099
It's a complicated answer. I think that they're in a
956
00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:31.239
good place, but I also think they had an unrealistic,
957
00:51:32.019 --> 00:51:36.480
unrealistically high idea of how many lapsed fans or how
958
00:51:36.500 --> 00:51:39.380
many fans were priced out of the marketplace because of
959
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:42.159
the $ 55 pay-per-view price point, how many of them would
960
00:51:42.219 --> 00:51:44.900
come in among the raw audience. But they've got a
961
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:49.889
million subscribers domestically now, and they've got, you know, two
962
00:51:49.909 --> 00:51:54.360
to 3 million people watching Ron Smackdown at any given time. Um,
963
00:51:54.809 --> 00:51:56.789
I think that's a pretty good percentage. And I think
964
00:51:56.829 --> 00:51:58.449
it's unrealistic for them to think they're going to get
965
00:51:58.510 --> 00:52:00.309
a lot more than that. I think it's going to
966
00:52:00.349 --> 00:52:04.130
be incremental. But it's a sustainable amount of revenue coming
967
00:52:04.230 --> 00:52:06.110
in when they've got about a half a million internationally
968
00:52:06.590 --> 00:52:09.909
and about a million domestically. The international markets, I think
969
00:52:09.949 --> 00:52:14.179
they found out, are more difficult to traverse than they
970
00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:18.239
expected because every country has a different– I was talking
971
00:52:18.260 --> 00:52:21.639
to Gabe Sapolsky about this. Our wrestling fans eight years
972
00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:24.219
ago or let's say even 14 years ago, they're like–
973
00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:26.920
I can get a VHS tape of an ROH or
974
00:52:26.940 --> 00:52:30.019
going back further, an ECW house show. Wow, this is great.
975
00:52:30.940 --> 00:52:32.539
It was like a window into a world they didn't
976
00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:35.500
have access to, and they paid $ 25 for it. And
977
00:52:35.559 --> 00:52:38.360
now you tell them, hey, well, you pay $ 20 and
978
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:41.719
have access to our entire library and five live shows
979
00:52:41.860 --> 00:52:45.150
and counting each month. They're like, eh, $ 3 per show,
980
00:52:45.610 --> 00:52:49.469
little pricey for me. And WWE is running into that
981
00:52:49.530 --> 00:52:53.619
different culture internationally where different countries– have different infrastructure for
982
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:56.519
the technology, but also a very different attitude towards paying
983
00:52:56.639 --> 00:52:59.500
for content. And it just takes a lot of work.
984
00:53:00.889 --> 00:53:03.610
It's like the election in each state. Each state has
985
00:53:03.619 --> 00:53:07.130
different voting rules, has a different demographic, has a different
986
00:53:07.150 --> 00:53:09.550
history of voting. And each campaign is trying to figure
987
00:53:09.590 --> 00:53:11.889
out how to get out the vote. That's WWE in
988
00:53:11.929 --> 00:53:14.289
each country. So I think it's going to be more
989
00:53:14.349 --> 00:53:18.429
stone cutting. It's going to be each quarter in each year,
990
00:53:18.449 --> 00:53:21.690
they're going to have to work for every 50,000 subscribers
991
00:53:21.750 --> 00:53:26.050
they gain. But I think it's a growing technology, not
992
00:53:26.090 --> 00:53:29.929
a retracting one. And therefore, it absolutely makes sense for
993
00:53:29.949 --> 00:53:32.480
them to be putting their time, money, and resources into it.
994
00:53:33.179 --> 00:53:35.139
I just don't think that they can double that. I
995
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:36.739
don't think they can double the numbers they have right
996
00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:39.780
now unless, and this is the punchline to my answer
997
00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:42.599
to your question, what they need to do now more
998
00:53:42.760 --> 00:53:45.840
is not tell people about the technology or add more
999
00:53:45.900 --> 00:53:48.940
diverse shows. What they need to do is create a
1000
00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:52.539
few stars. and an atmosphere that goes back to what
1001
00:53:52.619 --> 00:53:55.739
I like
about your reality show, which is people who
1002
00:53:55.800 --> 00:53:59.000
are really intense, and they're great athletes, and they convince
1003
00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:01.699
me that they're fighting for a prize that counts. And
1004
00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:05.400
that right now is sort of my theme of my
1005
00:54:05.500 --> 00:54:09.440
commentary on WWE, is they need to get people thinking
1006
00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:12.800
Kevin Owens is a badass. He's not just Chris Jericho's
1007
00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:16.280
best pal. They have to get people convinced that Roman
1008
00:54:16.340 --> 00:54:20.989
Reigns isn't just a corporate... action figure who Vince McMahon
1009
00:54:21.030 --> 00:54:23.409
is obsessed with getting over, they need to convince people
1010
00:54:23.469 --> 00:54:25.269
Roman Reigns is a real person, which, by the way,
1011
00:54:25.329 --> 00:54:28.949
he is, and a cool guy who really cares deeply
1012
00:54:29.010 --> 00:54:32.199
about winning matches and then goes out there and continues
1013
00:54:32.219 --> 00:54:33.579
to do what he's been doing, which is having really
1014
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:37.119
good matches with really good opponents. But there's so much
1015
00:54:37.179 --> 00:54:39.780
distraction from that with all the other things that people
1016
00:54:39.820 --> 00:54:43.280
in the corporate headquarters are concerned about. They need wrestling
1017
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:46.900
people to get wrestling fans excited about wrestling stars again.
1018
00:54:47.380 --> 00:54:49.500
that's their key to growth right now and i just
1019
00:54:49.539 --> 00:54:51.559
don't think that's where their mindset has been the last
1020
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:52.099
few years.
1021
00:54:52.980 --> 00:54:54.659
It doesn't seem i guess where the mindset has been
1022
00:54:54.699 --> 00:54:57.159
the last few years and just as far as you
1023
00:54:57.219 --> 00:55:01.480
know character development or serious characters so or serious you
1024
00:55:01.719 --> 00:55:05.920
know wrestlers and you know it just it just seems
1025
00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:09.239
like they're they're catering to a younger crowd to me
1026
00:55:09.260 --> 00:55:11.260
uh you know when i watch it just seems like
1027
00:55:11.300 --> 00:55:14.199
they're catering to a younger crowd and I don't know.
1028
00:55:14.460 --> 00:55:16.940
I know you want to have a young fan base
1029
00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:19.440
that grows up being a fan, but man, to me,
1030
00:55:19.460 --> 00:55:23.000
you do that by having guys that are over, guys
1031
00:55:23.019 --> 00:55:27.949
that mean something, guys that can actually work in a
1032
00:55:28.010 --> 00:55:30.409
ring at a high rate, talk you into the building,
1033
00:55:31.389 --> 00:55:34.010
have a well-rounded character that you can believe in, love
1034
00:55:34.050 --> 00:55:39.309
or hate. And work on those things. I mean, you
1035
00:55:39.670 --> 00:55:41.849
list to me the guys right now
that you think
1036
00:55:41.909 --> 00:55:43.590
on the Raw product are over.
1037
00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:49.179
I don't think there's– on the Raw product, I don't
1038
00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:52.940
know that you can point to individual– especially male wrestlers.
1039
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:56.840
I think Charlotte's over at– Charlotte, to me, in the
1040
00:55:56.900 --> 00:55:59.639
way that she's presented and carries herself, actually taps into
1041
00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:02.300
what I'm saying and what I think is missing. Because
1042
00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:04.500
when I think of who's over on Raw– I don't
1043
00:56:04.539 --> 00:56:07.059
think who's getting laughs or who are people entertained by.
1044
00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:10.940
I think who's over, that list is always short in
1045
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:14.719
wrestling by the definition that counts the most. Who's over
1046
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:18.239
means who's drawing money and who do people care about
1047
00:56:18.280 --> 00:56:20.570
whether they win or lose. And I think people are
1048
00:56:20.590 --> 00:56:22.329
interested in seeing Charlotte lose.
1049
00:56:23.590 --> 00:56:27.210
Well, and just to jump on, you get in on
1050
00:56:27.230 --> 00:56:30.269
the Charlotte thing there. I mean, she carries herself like
1051
00:56:30.309 --> 00:56:33.090
a professional wrestler. She ain't no sports entertainer. I mean,
1052
00:56:33.420 --> 00:56:36.219
that might be what her title is underneath her contract.
1053
00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:41.119
But everything she says, does, or how she works, how
1054
00:56:41.179 --> 00:56:44.760
she carries herself with her composure, she's a winner. And
1055
00:56:45.139 --> 00:56:47.400
she is a pro wrestler. She ain't trying to be one.
1056
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:51.199
She is one. And I think a lot of Sasha
1057
00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:54.000
Banks as well. But Charlotte, I give the nod to
1058
00:56:54.039 --> 00:56:57.079
just with a little bit of a, I mean, just regardless,
1059
00:56:57.179 --> 00:57:00.829
I mean, She's second generation. I mean, she's almost just
1060
00:57:00.869 --> 00:57:03.409
like her father, but she's completely different. So I don't
1061
00:57:03.429 --> 00:57:06.789
want to take any credit away from her. But, of course,
1062
00:57:06.989 --> 00:57:09.170
Ric Flair is the greatest of all time. But that
1063
00:57:09.230 --> 00:57:12.309
young lady, she reminds me of what pro wrestling is
1064
00:57:12.349 --> 00:57:15.489
supposed to be. And when her and Sasha are out there,
1065
00:57:15.510 --> 00:57:17.250
I enjoyed that Hell in a Cell match. It wasn't
1066
00:57:17.269 --> 00:57:18.699
the greatest match in the world, but it was a
1067
00:57:18.739 --> 00:57:23.599
good match. And they main evented that. They headlined that card.
1068
00:57:23.780 --> 00:57:26.199
So that was awesome for those two women. But yeah,
1069
00:57:26.579 --> 00:57:29.460
when I ask you, name me the people that are
1070
00:57:29.559 --> 00:57:32.440
over on Raw. It's hard to do because I'm talking
1071
00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:34.800
about over, over. I ain't talking about getting a little
1072
00:57:34.820 --> 00:57:37.059
pop over. I'm talking about over, over. And you just
1073
00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:40.260
can't sit there and give me five guys that are over.
1074
00:57:40.739 --> 00:57:43.599
So if you went over to the SmackDown side, name
1075
00:57:43.619 --> 00:57:44.639
me your guys that are over.
1076
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:50.320
On SmackDown, I think it's not a very long list either.
1077
00:57:51.460 --> 00:57:55.070
But I think that AJ Styles... is over, but I
1078
00:57:55.110 --> 00:57:59.860
think he's also, um, been during this gap between SmackDown
1079
00:57:59.889 --> 00:58:02.519
pay-per-views doing the bit with James Ellsworth, which I think,
1080
00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:05.159
like you say, you pay compliments. Ellsworth's great. I think
1081
00:58:05.179 --> 00:58:07.480
the storyline has been entertaining. I think for what they're doing,
1082
00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:11.260
it's been largely well-written, but it's still frivolity at a
1083
00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:13.900
main event level. It's, it's filling TV time. And I
1084
00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:18.980
think there's too many people who are filling TV time
1085
00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:22.820
to try to retain ratings and, and, it's hard to
1086
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:27.340
pinpoint wrestlers who are over in the sense that I think, okay,
1087
00:58:27.420 --> 00:58:31.380
if I see their name on a lineup for a
1088
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:35.519
house show, I want to go see their match. And
1089
00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:37.639
I don't know that there's anybody who's over. If you
1090
00:58:37.659 --> 00:58:39.059
use that definition, Steve, how about you?
1091
00:58:40.599 --> 00:58:42.579
No, I mean, it just, I watched your last night
1092
00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:44.820
when you say AJ Styles, because you know, hell he's
1093
00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:46.840
been in the business 18, 20 years, whatever it is,
1094
00:58:46.860 --> 00:58:50.059
you know, the guy's still performing at a very high level. And,
1095
00:58:50.670 --> 00:58:54.210
In a world that's not really real, you convince people
1096
00:58:54.250 --> 00:58:56.389
that you are real, and I think AJ Styles has
1097
00:58:56.489 --> 00:58:59.840
done that, and his work speaks for itself. The rumors
1098
00:58:59.900 --> 00:59:03.360
of an AJ Styles vs. Shawn Michaels match really perked
1099
00:59:03.400 --> 00:59:06.449
my ears up. I just didn't think Shawn would ever
1100
00:59:06.510 --> 00:59:08.730
come back, and I don't think he is, but that
1101
00:59:08.750 --> 00:59:10.760
would be an interesting match to watch. But I got
1102
00:59:10.780 --> 00:59:13.400
a lot of respect for AJ Styles and the way
1103
00:59:13.460 --> 00:59:18.280
he's conducting himself and there's kind of a little bit
1104
00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:21.239
of
humor going on here in the storyline, but his
1105
00:59:21.260 --> 00:59:23.440
work speaks for itself, and I think that's why the guy...
1106
00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:27.090
He got over. He did a couple of J-O-Bs early on.
1107
00:59:27.179 --> 00:59:29.949
People got mad about that because here's A.J. Stiles. He's
1108
00:59:29.969 --> 00:59:32.510
finally getting his opportunity at the big show. Hey, they
1109
00:59:32.530 --> 00:59:34.630
put the belt on the kid, and nothing but rocket
1110
00:59:35.369 --> 00:59:38.250
ever since. So I think a lot of that guy–
1111
00:59:38.269 --> 00:59:41.260
and before I go– I didn't want to run down
1112
00:59:41.300 --> 00:59:44.079
the entire Raw roster. I really get a kick out
1113
00:59:44.099 --> 00:59:47.090
of– it's a little bit– it's got some humor to it,
1114
00:59:47.139 --> 00:59:49.320
but I really like the angle that Kevin Owens and
1115
00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:52.940
Chris Jericho are doing with that damn Chris Jericho's list.
1116
00:59:53.539 --> 00:59:55.420
And that guy is doing some of the best work
1117
00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:57.559
of his career, so I don't want to crap on
1118
00:59:57.579 --> 01:00:00.820
the whole roster, but those two guys really entertain me.
1119
01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:04.719
But just as far as being mega over singles people,
1120
01:00:05.139 --> 01:00:07.179
it's hard to name a bunch of them.
1121
01:00:08.340 --> 01:00:10.199
You know, I agree. I think that there's a self-awareness
1122
01:00:10.239 --> 01:00:13.019
in a certain corner of WWE and even some of
1123
01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:18.659
the performers who are– entertaining and into their roles are
1124
01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:21.769
also aware that what they're doing is not main event material.
1125
01:00:22.289 --> 01:00:25.389
It's Phil TV time and kind of get over a
1126
01:00:25.449 --> 01:00:28.789
bit material. And I think Kevin Owens is a guy
1127
01:00:28.849 --> 01:00:33.750
who is being pigeonholed in a category, not, and it's
1128
01:00:33.789 --> 01:00:38.630
not insurmountable because Kevin Owens is hugely, hugely talented. I mean, really,
1129
01:00:38.650 --> 01:00:42.539
really talented personality wise into the ring, but I think
1130
01:00:42.579 --> 01:00:44.929
they need to give him an edge in the ring and,
1131
01:00:45.579 --> 01:00:51.059
And a sense of toughness that as opposed to just
1132
01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:52.980
being the guy who's always got a good one liner
1133
01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:55.050
in response to somebody else and who can go out
1134
01:00:55.070 --> 01:00:57.869
there and have good matches. And I'm just I'm worried
1135
01:00:57.889 --> 01:01:00.889
about that. You know, I'm worried that he's not this
1136
01:01:00.969 --> 01:01:04.050
is his first time on top as a world champion.
1137
01:01:04.590 --> 01:01:08.480
And the storyline rarely on commentary or promos is how
1138
01:01:08.579 --> 01:01:10.960
good he is in the ring and how tough he is.
1139
01:01:12.409 --> 01:01:14.829
It's all about what they're going to do. And I'm
1140
01:01:14.869 --> 01:01:17.159
entertained by it. It's well done, Steve. I agree with you.
1141
01:01:17.469 --> 01:01:20.619
Jericho and Owens are brilliant. But I don't know that
1142
01:01:20.659 --> 01:01:23.099
that's what draws money and sells tickets.
1143
01:01:24.039 --> 01:01:26.380
No, and I agree with you. I agree with you
1144
01:01:26.380 --> 01:01:29.250
100% as far as does Kevin Owens need to be
1145
01:01:29.269 --> 01:01:32.250
considered a more dangerous human being inside the ring or
1146
01:01:32.329 --> 01:01:34.789
have more of a serious side or a sense of
1147
01:01:34.889 --> 01:01:39.690
urgency or just more of an enhanced mean streak? and
1148
01:01:39.969 --> 01:01:43.429
just really hammered down on some people, yeah, he does
1149
01:01:43.489 --> 01:01:46.690
need that. And, you know, he's got all the tools.
1150
01:01:47.150 --> 01:01:51.800
He's not, you know, Vince's definition of a great body. But,
1151
01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:54.860
I mean, he's big enough. He's smart enough. He's strong enough.
1152
01:01:55.320 --> 01:02:00.449
He's got unique charisma. But, yeah, they need to uncork
1153
01:02:00.469 --> 01:02:02.730
that guy a little bit and just sense of urgency,
1154
01:02:02.769 --> 01:02:05.170
more violence, and, you know, he'll do whatever it takes
1155
01:02:05.190 --> 01:02:09.050
to protect that belt. And so it's an interesting storyline
1156
01:02:09.070 --> 01:02:12.710
that they're running right now. And maybe I'm not– putting
1157
01:02:12.750 --> 01:02:14.659
into the best words that I could put it into,
1158
01:02:14.699 --> 01:02:17.239
but yeah, that guy needs to be taken like, Hey man,
1159
01:02:17.579 --> 01:02:19.719
when KO comes out to the ring, you better watch
1160
01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:22.239
your ass. There's so much is bad. Yes.
1161
01:02:22.579 --> 01:02:25.780
And that's where just having to be on TV and
1162
01:02:26.300 --> 01:02:30.889
winning decisively against a lower mid card guy every once
1163
01:02:30.949 --> 01:02:34.329
in a while to remind people that he, every match that,
1164
01:02:34.389 --> 01:02:36.929
that he can destroy people. I mean, I think that's
1165
01:02:36.969 --> 01:02:40.150
a good thing to do. I have liked the return
1166
01:02:40.369 --> 01:02:45.369
to WWE TV of essentially squash matches, enhancement matches, one-sided beatdowns.
1167
01:02:45.869 --> 01:02:48.340
And I think it's good to have everybody on the
1168
01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:51.059
top third of the roster on occasion get a match
1169
01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:52.619
like that. And it doesn't have to have a big
1170
01:02:52.659 --> 01:02:55.960
story behind it. It can just be something that's weaved
1171
01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:59.019
into the product. That was a big part of WWE
1172
01:02:59.059 --> 01:03:02.179
and Vince McMahon's philosophy until Nitro started putting on main
1173
01:03:02.219 -->
01:03:05.039
events constantly and Vince McMahon didn't. got drag kicking and
1174
01:03:05.059 --> 01:03:07.920
screaming into giving away house show matches on raw almost
1175
01:03:07.980 --> 01:03:08.579
all the time.
1176
01:03:14.730 --> 01:03:17.750
Longing for some nostalgia, or maybe you want to learn
1177
01:03:17.789 --> 01:03:21.690
some wrestling history. Don't miss the nineties past cast every
1178
01:03:21.750 --> 01:03:25.070
Friday on the PW torch daily cast feed. Alex and
1179
01:03:25.110 --> 01:03:28.429
Patrick will transport you 30 years into the past by
1180
01:03:28.489 --> 01:03:31.130
taking you through the torch issue from that very week.
1181
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:34.869
Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the
1182
01:03:34.949 --> 01:03:38.130
happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
1183
01:03:38.170 --> 01:03:41.550
The Torch reported it 30 years ago. That's the 90s
1184
01:03:41.590 --> 01:03:45.010
Passcast every Friday on the PWTorch daily cast feed.
1185
01:03:55.510 --> 01:03:57.489
What have you thought of the return of squash matches?
1186
01:03:58.760 --> 01:04:02.980
Nia Jax has gotten some of them, Braun Strowman. Even
1187
01:04:03.139 --> 01:04:06.460
Bo Dallas, who they're trying to give rehab into something,
1188
01:04:06.599 --> 01:04:09.119
is actually getting some squash matches to try to establish
1189
01:04:09.559 --> 01:04:12.320
that he's more than just a low-card comedy guy. What's
1190
01:04:12.340 --> 01:04:14.480
your thought on that in the 2016 era?
1191
01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:20.239
Well, I still dig the squash matches, but how they're
1192
01:04:20.260 --> 01:04:23.780
doing them and what they're talking about is two different things.
1193
01:04:25.090 --> 01:04:27.289
Going back to, before I get into more of the
1194
01:04:27.329 --> 01:04:29.219
squash match stuff, first of all, I'm a fan of it.
1195
01:04:29.829 --> 01:04:31.170
Can you have too much of it? No, I don't
1196
01:04:31.190 --> 01:04:33.320
think you can. It's a special case for special people,
1197
01:04:33.860 --> 01:04:37.500
like what Braun Strowman's been doing and Nia Jax. But,
1198
01:04:37.639 --> 01:04:40.820
you know, with respect to KO, I just want to point,
1199
01:04:41.219 --> 01:04:44.000
to leave on one note, he's had so many 50-50
1200
01:04:44.059 --> 01:04:46.510
matches with, you know, guys that were really good hands,
1201
01:04:46.730 --> 01:04:49.789
mechanics in the ring. But, you know, it's almost like
1202
01:04:49.809 --> 01:04:52.269
that old Jake the Snake Roberts story. You know, Jake
1203
01:04:52.309 --> 01:04:55.969
wasn't doing so well. And Vince calls him into his
1204
01:04:56.050 --> 01:04:58.059
office and says, hey, man, what are you doing? He goes,
1205
01:04:58.079 --> 01:05:00.960
I'm trying to have good matches. And Vince says, I
1206
01:05:00.980 --> 01:05:02.760
didn't bring you here to have good matches. I brought
1207
01:05:02.780 --> 01:05:06.440
you here to get over. And so get over. And so,
1208
01:05:06.840 --> 01:05:09.679
you know, it's always the 50-50 thing on these high
1209
01:05:09.699 --> 01:05:13.250
profile pay-per-views. And sometimes it's got to be 60-40, 70-30,
1210
01:05:13.699 --> 01:05:15.719
or just go right into some heat and mess around
1211
01:05:15.739 --> 01:05:18.329
with the formula and not so much back and forth stuff.
1212
01:05:18.389 --> 01:05:21.510
But He's been in a lot of 50-50 matches, I thought,
1213
01:05:21.570 --> 01:05:24.219
with guys that didn't need to get 50% of that
1214
01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:26.460
match and just needs to be a little bit more
1215
01:05:26.539 --> 01:05:28.539
dominant of a force in there and a little bit
1216
01:05:28.579 --> 01:05:31.519
more physical. That roll and tumble in the corner or
1217
01:05:31.619 --> 01:05:34.559
against the barricade, that's one thing, but it's a whole
1218
01:05:34.599 --> 01:05:38.159
lot different than fists and kicks and stuff like that.
1219
01:05:38.659 --> 01:05:41.000
But I enjoy the squash matches. Who knows what they're
1220
01:05:41.019 --> 01:05:42.400
going to do with Braun Strowman? I had him on
1221
01:05:42.420 --> 01:05:46.340
my podcast several months ago. He was very impromptu, hard
1222
01:05:46.360 --> 01:05:48.559
to research the guy, just know he's a strong man.
1223
01:05:49.039 --> 01:05:50.699
But you sit down and talk with that guy. He's
1224
01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:54.500
a charismatic young man, big dude, still kind of has
1225
01:05:54.519 --> 01:05:56.480
that lost look in his eyes, but I'm a fan
1226
01:05:56.519 --> 01:05:59.619
of that guy. And right now he keeps, well, the
1227
01:05:59.659 --> 01:06:02.230
last thing I saw, he kept demanding for, you know,
1228
01:06:02.269 --> 01:06:04.869
higher level competition. And who came out the other day?
1229
01:06:04.969 --> 01:06:08.750
Who was that? I can't remember who popped up. Was
1230
01:06:08.769 --> 01:06:09.510
it Sammy Zane?
1231
01:06:09.530 --> 01:06:11.130
Sammy Zane, yeah, yeah, yep.
1232
01:06:11.550 --> 01:06:13.349
Yeah, so did they have that match and what happened?
1233
01:06:14.349 --> 01:06:16.929
They did a count-out finish. They kind of did a
1234
01:06:16.969 --> 01:06:20.090
non-finish for the match to kind of tease the storyline
1235
01:06:20.110 --> 01:06:20.659
going forward.
1236
01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:25.199
Okay. Well, anyway, so there again, you've got this guy
1237
01:06:25.219 --> 01:06:28.019
who's almost 400 pounds that brings Sammy out and what's
1238
01:06:28.059 --> 01:06:30.880
in a DQ or whatever. I don't think that did anything.
1239
01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:35.570
But I haven't watched enough of the product to sit
1240
01:06:35.590 --> 01:06:37.949
here and just shoot the breeze with you about all
1241
01:06:37.969 --> 01:06:40.550
the storylines. But to go back to what you asked me,
1242
01:06:40.590 --> 01:06:42.969
do I like squash matches? Yes, for the right people.
1243
01:06:44.139 --> 01:06:48.079
Yeah, yeah, exactly. In the product that– well, actually, I
1244
01:06:48.079 --> 01:06:50.050
want to ask specifically about SmackDown because you saw that.
1245
01:06:50.110 --> 01:06:53.349
You had Dean Ambrose on your show. You kind of
1246
01:06:53.369 --> 01:06:55.670
called him out. You tried to, say, step it up.
1247
01:06:55.750 --> 01:07:01.090
You saw him as a top guy who was ready,
1248
01:07:01.429 --> 01:07:04.789
had the tools to be at a top level, but
1249
01:07:04.829 --> 01:07:06.530
you're trying to give him some advice, and both of
1250
01:07:06.550 --> 01:07:10.000
you were trying to communicate to each other on that podcast,
1251
01:07:10.179 --> 01:07:13.539
and you could tell your heart was– trying to get
1252
01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:16.519
Dean to that next level. What you're seeing now with
1253
01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:21.599
Ambrose's character, taking into account it's heavily scripted, and they're
1254
01:07:21.699 --> 01:07:26.239
in between pay-per-views, so they're doing entertaining storylines that are TV-based,
1255
01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:29.179
not building to a big match necessarily. But are you
1256
01:07:29.239 --> 01:07:31.210
seeing anything different in Dean, or do you have an
1257
01:07:31.829 --> 01:07:34.469
updated evaluation of the role that he's been put in?
1258
01:07:35.590 --> 01:07:37.769
No, you know, it was weird doing that podcast with
1259
01:07:37.809 --> 01:07:40.030
Dean because a lot of people said I put him
1260
01:07:40.110 --> 01:07:43.030
on blast. The last thing I wanted to do was
1261
01:07:43.110 --> 01:07:47.730
to put the guy on blast. I probably watched six
1262
01:07:47.769 --> 01:07:50.329
or seven hours worth of interviews that that guy had done.
1263
01:07:50.349 --> 01:07:53.400
I don't know how many matches he'd done from the
1264
01:07:53.420 --> 01:07:56.860
independent scene, watching me evolve that character into a real
1265
01:07:56.920 --> 01:07:59.960
interesting person, more John Moxley or whatever the hell his
1266
01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:02.750
name was. But, you know, I thought he was really
1267
01:08:02.789 --> 01:08:05.769
doing some great stuff on the indie level and, you know,
1268
01:08:05.809 --> 01:08:10.280
within the structured confines and creatively stifled, I think was
1269
01:08:10.300 --> 01:08:13.699
the term someone used one time. Yeah, I mean, maybe
1270
01:08:14.380 --> 01:08:17.260
in that corporate setting, he can't be all that he
1271
01:08:17.319 --> 01:08:19.100
wants to be or do all the things that he
1272
01:08:19.140 --> 01:08:21.560
wants to do because they might kind of, you know,
1273
01:08:21.579 --> 01:08:23.880
get into the red line as far as what stuff
1274
01:08:23.899 --> 01:08:26.460
they want to stay away from at a corporate level.
1275
01:08:26.500 --> 01:08:30.739
But You know, he's doing fine. I never wanted to
1276
01:08:30.859 --> 01:08:34.619
call him out or put him on blast or embarrass him.
Hell,
1277
01:08:34.659 --> 01:08:36.420
I was just challenging him to step it up a
1278
01:08:36.439 --> 01:08:38.539
little bit, raise a little bit more hell. I thought
1279
01:08:38.560 --> 01:08:41.710
they'd organically take that as, you know, the riding crew
1280
01:08:41.970 --> 01:08:44.210
and put the guy up to all kinds of shenanigans,
1281
01:08:44.250 --> 01:08:47.449
whether he's, you know, kind of, here's the bad idea,
1282
01:08:47.510 --> 01:08:49.930
doing a bunch of Stone Cold stuff, driving different vehicles
1283
01:08:50.010 --> 01:08:54.300
or whatever. Just whatever. But, you know, maybe if he
1284
01:08:54.340 --> 01:08:56.090
went out on a limb, that's too far. I just
1285
01:08:56.100 --> 01:08:58.170
thought he should go out on a limb because it
1286
01:08:58.189 --> 01:09:00.770
seemed like he had flatlined a little bit. That was
1287
01:09:00.810 --> 01:09:03.350
my take on that. I was certainly not an indictment
1288
01:09:03.949 --> 01:09:06.869
on Dean or try to throw him under the bus
1289
01:09:06.930 --> 01:09:07.930
if they're on live TV.
1290
01:09:09.329 --> 01:09:15.800
The A.J. Dean interaction, again, with Dean, I want to
1291
01:09:15.880 --> 01:09:21.569
see Dean be portrayed even on commentary as touting what
1292
01:09:21.649 --> 01:09:24.600
makes him a main event wrestler, not just a sports
1293
01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:28.619
entertainer who's zany and funny, but somebody who's a badass.
1294
01:09:28.659 --> 01:09:30.460
And that's where like the squash match aspect comes in.
1295
01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:32.699
I just, I think we should have every two months
1296
01:09:32.779 --> 01:09:37.359
in our memory, a 70, 30 match, or even a 98,
1297
01:09:37.359 --> 01:09:40.510
2% match for the top stars. You know, where we're
1298
01:09:40.529 --> 01:09:43.369
reminded of that they can go out and kick some ass.
1299
01:09:43.550 --> 01:09:46.609
And I think that would help the Dean Ambrose character, uh,
1300
01:09:47.210 --> 01:09:49.430
at this point Seth Rollins to pivot him real quick
1301
01:09:49.710 --> 01:09:52.819
Steve he went from being a popular heel to being
1302
01:09:52.960 --> 01:09:57.060
a centerpiece babyface under circumstances that weren't ideal Finn Balor
1303
01:09:57.100 --> 01:09:58.979
got hurt and they had to kind of reshuffle the
1304
01:09:59.020 --> 01:10:04.420
deck have you seen enough of Seth to specifically evaluate
1305
01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:06.880
how he's handling that transition or how WWE on a
1306
01:10:06.899 --> 01:10:09.420
whole is or do you have some general advice from
1307
01:10:09.460 --> 01:10:12.630
going to a cheered heel which you were to trying
1308
01:10:12.670 --> 01:10:15.449
to appeal to the fans in the same way but
1309
01:10:15.510 --> 01:10:16.729
now you're a babyface.
1310
01:10:17.939 --> 01:10:21.189
Man, I don't know. I haven't seen enough TV. When
1311
01:10:21.210 --> 01:10:23.350
he went away from that knee surgery, I really thought
1312
01:10:23.390 --> 01:10:27.520
he'd try to reinvent or really think about who and
1313
01:10:27.539 --> 01:10:29.439
what a Seth Rollins is. I guess they call him
1314
01:10:29.460 --> 01:10:33.850
Seth freaking Rollins now. So maybe that's just a step
1315
01:10:33.890 --> 01:10:36.350
in the right direction to try to give him... A
1316
01:10:36.409 --> 01:10:39.789
little bit more of a well-rounded character because, again, if
1317
01:10:39.850 --> 01:10:41.890
I tell you Stone Cold, if I tell you The Rock,
1318
01:10:41.930 --> 01:10:44.189
if I say The Undertaker, if I say Hulk Hogan,
1319
01:10:44.470 --> 01:10:47.170
if I say John Cena, and I'm not even using
1320
01:10:47.289 --> 01:10:50.609
any nicknames, you know who and what those guys are
1321
01:10:50.649 --> 01:10:53.649
all about. You tell me Seth Rollins. Okay, Wade, you
1322
01:10:53.670 --> 01:10:59.090
tell me what this guy's about. He, sadly, his baby face.
1323
01:10:59.329 --> 01:11:01.750
What's the catch? What's the catch? What's the gimmick, okay?
1324
01:11:01.829 --> 01:11:04.170
What's the personality? I don't know.
1325
01:11:05.260 --> 01:11:06.479
I don't either.
1326
01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:10.000
And that was what I posed to him when he
1327
01:11:10.039 --> 01:11:12.539
went on his hiatus to get his knee fixed. I said, hey, man,
1328
01:11:12.560 --> 01:11:14.750
you're going to be gone for a long time. It's
1329
01:11:14.789 --> 01:11:16.869
time for you to sit back and watch what all
1330
01:11:16.909 --> 01:11:19.029
these people are doing, see who's moving the needle, think
1331
01:11:19.069 --> 01:11:22.789
about yourself and what you can do to recreate yourself
1332
01:11:22.829 --> 01:11:25.229
so that you make more of an impact. You're more
1333
01:11:25.270 --> 01:11:27.649
of a superstar. Yeah, you can work your ass off.
1334
01:11:27.670 --> 01:11:30.520
You're athletic as hell. You can do a bunch of sequences.
1335
01:11:30.949 --> 01:11:33.659
That's great. But what's really going to put ashes in
1336
01:11:33.699 --> 01:11:36.720
the seats, if you have a personality and a character
1337
01:11:37.199 --> 01:11:40.420
that people can love in or hate even more, along
1338
01:11:40.460 --> 01:11:43.659
with all your tremendous athletic ability. And so, you know,
1339
01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:45.880
you have to have a conversation with 10 people and
1340
01:11:45.899 --> 01:11:47.680
they just look at you with these blank eyes like
1341
01:11:47.779 --> 01:11:50.239
I don't get it. You know, and I was riding
1342
01:11:50.260 --> 01:11:52.479
down the road, you know, 20 years ago with Dr.
1343
01:11:52.500 --> 01:11:55.260
Tom Pritchard. He goes, what's a stunning Steve all about?
1344
01:11:55.779 --> 01:11:58.420
What does that mean? And I couldn't tell him. But
1345
01:11:58.479 --> 01:12:00.399
I can tell you what Stone Cold means. I can
1346
01:12:00.420 --> 01:12:01.859
tell you what The Undertaker means. I can tell you
1347
01:12:01.880 -->
01:12:04.619
what The Rock means. I can tell you all that stuff.
1348
01:12:05.310 --> 01:12:08.199
Seth Rollins, to me, where he's, I don't want to
1349
01:12:08.229 --> 01:12:10.210
say he's missing the boat, but he's missing a big
1350
01:12:10.250 --> 01:12:14.329
piece of the puzzle, is coming up with a personality
1351
01:12:14.390 --> 01:12:17.989
or presence or some kind of gimmick, more so than
1352
01:12:18.029 --> 01:12:20.510
just a guy named Seth frickin' Rollins.
1353
01:12:21.229 --> 01:12:24.829
Well, and his T-shirts are redesigned, rebuilt. Does that make
1354
01:12:24.869 --> 01:12:26.210
sense to you? I am 100% in agreement with you.
1355
01:12:26.250 --> 01:12:29.609
I'm nodding and smiling as you're talking because it does–
1356
01:12:29.909 --> 01:12:33.960
I mean, here you are articulating in your voice what
1357
01:12:34.180 --> 01:12:37.300
I feel and try to articulate in my voice, and
1358
01:12:37.340 --> 01:12:41.140
you're absolutely right. Seth Rollins has not been defined by–
1359
01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:44.979
redefined by using the rethink because Seth's redesigned, rebuilt, reclaimed.
1360
01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:50.369
He needs to be redefined and reframed as a– babyface
1361
01:12:50.449 --> 01:12:53.989
character who stands for something. And the biggest handicap that
1362
01:12:54.050 --> 01:12:57.510
he has been given since turning babyface is that he
1363
01:12:57.569 --> 01:13:02.810
spent a few weeks practically begging or complaining that Stephanie
1364
01:13:02.829 --> 01:13:06.840
McMahon and Triple H weren't on his side anymore backing him.
1365
01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:13.060
And so he did not turn on the heel. He
1366
01:13:13.220 --> 01:13:16.939
was turned on by the heel and replaced by Kevin Owens.
1367
01:13:17.520 --> 01:13:22.239
So we didn't have that moment of, as viewers following
1368
01:13:22.300 --> 01:13:24.960
Seth's career, to go, finally Seth has seen the light.
1369
01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:27.260
The authority aren't what he stands for. He stands for
1370
01:13:27.300 --> 01:13:30.359
something different than they do. And he broke away, and
1371
01:13:30.479 --> 01:13:33.619
all hell's going to break loose. Instead, for a few weeks,
1372
01:13:33.699 --> 01:13:36.189
he was going to Stephanie going... Why did you choose
1373
01:13:36.229 --> 01:13:38.930
Kevin and not me? Was Triple H on board too?
1374
01:13:38.949 --> 01:13:41.649
Is Triple H still like me? And it was kind
1375
01:13:41.670 --> 01:13:44.890
of sad and pathetic. And it totally undercut the pop
1376
01:13:44.909 --> 01:13:47.069
that he got when I was in Prudential Center in
1377
01:13:47.109 --> 01:13:49.819
May in New Jersey. And the pay-per-view seemed to be over.
1378
01:13:50.159 --> 01:13:52.159
And then Seth's music played and he made his return
1379
01:13:52.199 --> 01:13:56.800
after all that time off. That building exploded. They wanted
1380
01:13:57.039 --> 01:14:00.420
him to be a babyface. The difference now versus then,
1381
01:14:00.899 --> 01:14:04.239
because of television and what WWE should be doing to
1382
01:14:04.260 --> 01:14:08.069
boost a character... but instead they've undercut him, is astounding.
1383
01:14:08.409 --> 01:14:10.890
Him being off TV made him a bigger star than
1384
01:14:11.170 --> 01:14:13.550
all the hours he's been on TV since then. That's
1385
01:14:13.590 --> 01:14:14.210
frustrating to me.
1386
01:14:15.149 --> 01:14:17.590
Well, that's because he's such a good performer. People like
1387
01:14:17.630 --> 01:14:19.289
what he does in the ring, so you want to
1388
01:14:19.310 --> 01:14:21.149
see him back in a war of attrition. It's not
1389
01:14:21.220 --> 01:14:25.239
like they got just lines and lines of top guys. So, yeah,
1390
01:14:25.340 --> 01:14:30.439
there was a demand, and his absence was felt. But, man,
1391
01:14:30.460 --> 01:14:33.739
all of a sudden you come back. You need to
1392
01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:36.640
come back a little bit more with the exact same
1393
01:14:36.699 --> 01:14:40.720
thing than when you left. He's doing the same thing.
1394
01:14:41.039 --> 01:14:43.739
And so nothing changed because he didn't do his homework.
1395
01:14:44.699 --> 01:14:46.199
Here's a little thing, just because I want to sit
1396
01:14:46.220 --> 01:14:49.180
there and pick on Seth Rollins. But if you want
1397
01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:51.819
to raise to the next level, because I hope that
1398
01:14:51.859 --> 01:14:54.560
he doesn't think he's at the highest level because he's not.
1399
01:14:55.590 --> 01:14:57.119
And I'm not trying to sound like I know it all,
1400
01:14:57.159 --> 01:14:59.520
but I know a little bit. You look at a
1401
01:14:59.560 --> 01:15:03.600
guy like The Miz. I re-watched SmackDown last night and
1402
01:15:03.619 --> 01:15:06.520
just DVR'd through it. He had a Miz TV show.
1403
01:15:07.210 --> 01:15:09.909
And shoot, who was his guest out there? It was
1404
01:15:09.949 --> 01:15:13.369
Daniel Bryan. And you look at what The Miz has done.
1405
01:15:13.390 --> 01:15:16.010
About a couple years ago in a main event at WrestleMania,
1406
01:15:16.569 --> 01:15:19.649
a hell of a damn match with Dolph Ziggler. Was
1407
01:15:19.710 --> 01:15:22.529
it last time at the pay-per-view? I mean, they probably
1408
01:15:22.729 --> 01:15:25.689
stole the show. You look at what The Miz has done.
1409
01:15:25.710 --> 01:15:30.750
That guy... if you had two-thirds of your crew that
1410
01:15:30.850 --> 01:15:34.109
worked as hard as The Miz does at trying to
1411
01:15:34.170 --> 01:15:38.729
reinvent himself, dress to the nines, work on his promos,
1412
01:15:38.770 --> 01:15:41.289
I mean, he's a good-looking guy, but he's not the
1413
01:15:41.310 --> 01:15:43.750
best-looking guy in the world. He's got a decent body.
1414
01:15:43.949 --> 01:15:45.970
He's not the biggest guy in the world. He's a
1415
01:15:46.010 --> 01:15:49.550
pretty good wrestler. He's not the best
wrestler in the world. But, man,
1416
01:15:49.590 --> 01:15:53.319
I tell you what, his commitment and his– The way
1417
01:15:53.380 --> 01:15:55.899
he approaches the product and the way he approaches who
1418
01:15:55.939 --> 01:15:57.920
and what he is and what he's trying to accomplish,
1419
01:15:58.439 --> 01:16:01.239
that guy is so hungry. After all the years he's
1420
01:16:01.260 --> 01:16:05.899
been in the business, this kid continues to redefine, refine,
1421
01:16:06.279 --> 01:16:08.720
change himself. I got a lot of respect for that
1422
01:16:08.739 --> 01:16:11.550
guy because when I said the things that he's not,
1423
01:16:11.649 --> 01:16:13.789
I wasn't trying to undercut him. I was trying to
1424
01:16:13.930 --> 01:16:16.229
let you know that I think that this kid is
1425
01:16:16.310 --> 01:16:18.909
working above and beyond the talent that he has because
1426
01:16:18.949 --> 01:16:21.609
he hustles so much and he wants it so much.
1427
01:16:22.149 --> 01:16:25.359
But I don't see guys with the same hunger or
1428
01:16:25.399 --> 01:16:27.800
the same desire that the Miz has. I've got to
1429
01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:29.520
give that kid a lot of credit. I think half
1430
01:16:29.560 --> 01:16:31.619
the dressing room is missing the boat. And if you're
1431
01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:33.789
missing the boat, look what the Miz is doing. Look
1432
01:16:33.829 --> 01:16:34.789
how hungry the cat is.
1433
01:16:35.869 --> 01:16:39.229
And I 100% agree with you. I love watching Miz's
1434
01:16:39.250 --> 01:16:41.350
segments now, and I don't think anybody was harder on
1435
01:16:41.390 --> 01:16:43.300
him two years ago than I was. I mean, a
1436
01:16:43.340 --> 01:16:45.439
lot of people were hard on him. He was lost.
1437
01:16:45.979 --> 01:16:47.979
I was hard on him, too. Yeah.
1438
01:16:48.380 --> 01:16:51.340
And he found his way. And it is what you said.
1439
01:16:51.420 --> 01:16:55.760
He he he worked hard and was a student of
1440
01:16:55.800 --> 01:17:00.470
his own character in a way that finally worked. And yes,
1441
01:17:00.510 --> 01:17:02.659
he got the opportunity and he played the game behind
1442
01:17:02.689 --> 01:17:04.529
the scenes. I should call it a game. He was
1443
01:17:04.550 --> 01:17:06.510
a good employee behind the scenes. He did what he
1444
01:17:06.569 --> 01:17:09.689
gave promoters of faith that if they gave him opportunity,
1445
01:17:09.729 --> 01:17:10.949
he wasn't going to be a head case.
1446
01:17:11.300 --> 01:17:16.399
And that's important too. And he also presented ideas or
1447
01:17:16.640 --> 01:17:21.159
options or alternatives to their ideas and was, you know,
1448
01:17:22.140 --> 01:17:25.699
very engaged and very active. And you could see that
1449
01:17:25.739 --> 01:17:28.279
he cared. He's wonderful on media. He's always got a
1450
01:17:28.319 --> 01:17:30.899
smile on his face. He works his ass off. He's everywhere.
1451
01:17:31.359 --> 01:17:33.390
And he's great when he does media because you give
1452
01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:36.170
that guy a microphone and that's all you got to do. So,
1453
01:17:36.289 --> 01:17:38.470
you know, I'm not saying just blow smoke up his
1454
01:17:38.569 --> 01:17:40.909
ass all day, but When you look at what that
1455
01:17:40.949 --> 01:17:45.250
guy has done in that climate, in the world that
1456
01:17:45.289 --> 01:17:48.729
we know as WWE, on the Raw and the SmackDown side,
1457
01:17:49.090 --> 01:17:51.529
to me, he's your all-star just as far as being
1458
01:17:52.510 --> 01:17:58.140
the hardest-working guy to try to springboard himself forward. If
1459
01:17:58.180 --> 01:17:59.840
you don't look out for yourself, ain't nobody going to
1460
01:17:59.859 --> 01:18:02.279
look out for you. Look at Cena, look at Brock,
1461
01:18:02.319 --> 01:18:05.810
look at those badasses that are... super over guys and they, they,
1462
01:18:05.869 --> 01:18:08.760
they each do things in their own way. But I'm
1463
01:18:08.770 --> 01:18:10.800
talking about these other guys who have not found their
1464
01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:12.979
way yet into the main event picture. And you look
1465
01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:14.600
what the Miz has done. And this goes from the
1466
01:18:14.619 --> 01:18:16.159
bottom of the card to the top of the card.
1467
01:18:16.520 --> 01:18:18.779
You see how hungry that guy is, how hard he tries.
1468
01:18:19.279 --> 01:18:20.140
I really respect that.
1469
01:18:22.539 --> 01:18:24.380
iPhone users. If you're listening to us on the native
1470
01:18:24.399 --> 01:18:28.430
podcast app on your iPhone, You can unlock our commercial-free
1471
01:18:28.470 --> 01:18:33.420
versions of our free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts.
1472
01:18:33.439 --> 01:18:36.000
You'll see a charcoal gray logo that says PWTorch VIP
1473
01:18:36.060 --> 01:18:38.039
on it. Click on that. There's some free samples of
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01:18:38.100 --> 01:18:41.680
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1475
01:18:41.699 --> 01:18:44.930
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1476
01:18:44.949 --> 01:18:48.609
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1477
01:18:48.630 --> 01:19:08.390
the PWTorch VIP logo. We'll be right back. and a
1478
01:19:08.430 --> 01:19:12.109
variety of other VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your
1479
01:19:12.189 --> 01:19:17.449
Apple Podcast app. I'm glad you picked somebody out who
1480
01:19:18.109 --> 01:19:21.310
is that embodiment of what you're talking about. He's not
1481
01:19:21.350 --> 01:19:24.739
the top, top main event guy, but everybody has a
1482
01:19:25.479 --> 01:19:29.260
different set of talents that they can be involved in molding.
1483
01:19:29.279 --> 01:19:30.840
It isn't just about, I do what I'm told and
1484
01:19:30.859 --> 01:19:33.359
I hope to get rich. It is about, like you said,
1485
01:19:33.399 --> 01:19:36.600
presenting
ideas, reinventing yourself, dressing to the T, and carrying
1486
01:19:36.649 --> 01:19:40.850
yourself a certain way. I believe that Miz is a
1487
01:19:40.890 --> 01:19:43.449
lot like his on air character. I like, I watched
1488
01:19:43.470 --> 01:19:47.569
that show. I don't think, well, he's completely different. I like,
1489
01:19:48.050 --> 01:19:51.390
he's good at that too. He makes you believe immersively
1490
01:19:51.449 --> 01:19:54.409
that this is who he is, that he would be
1491
01:19:54.489 --> 01:19:56.699
hard to deal with outside of the ring, that he's
1492
01:19:56.739 --> 01:19:58.819
got a big head, that he thinks he's better than
1493
01:19:58.840 --> 01:20:02.239
he is. That's your job. Convince people. And Charlotte's the
1494
01:20:02.260 --> 01:20:05.649
same way. You know, I believe Miz, I mean, unfortunately,
1495
01:20:05.689 --> 01:20:09.079
she puts out conflicting signals on social media and on
1496
01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:12.439
radio interviews. I want Charlotte to be 24-7. I want
1497
01:20:12.479 --> 01:20:15.500
her to be 365 days a year, nothing in public
1498
01:20:15.579 --> 01:20:18.039
that contradicts the idea that she is convinced she is
1499
01:20:18.100 --> 01:20:21.619
genetically better than everybody else. I think that helps her
1500
01:20:21.659 --> 01:20:24.369
character more to do that. And Miz isn't out there
1501
01:20:24.390 --> 01:20:26.550
contradicting it. And I admire her for that, too.
1502
01:20:27.890 --> 01:20:31.430
Well, I agree with you. Just real quickly, yeah, I
1503
01:20:31.470 --> 01:20:34.069
believe Charlotte should be the same. It's almost because I
1504
01:20:34.090 --> 01:20:36.329
think that's who she is dialed up. Go ahead and
1505
01:20:36.409 --> 01:20:41.390
act accordingly on your promos and on your appearances. Definitely.
1506
01:20:41.449 --> 01:20:43.909
Yep. You want to think people are. Vince McMahon always
1507
01:20:43.949 --> 01:20:45.529
said that, Stephen. We hit this note a lot when
1508
01:20:45.569 --> 01:20:50.250
we talk on our podcast. He'd always say pro wrestlers
1509
01:20:50.289 --> 01:20:54.170
are not characters. They're themselves. They're a slice of who
1510
01:20:54.189 --> 01:20:57.789
they really are authentically dialed up. sometimes to a ridiculous
1511
01:20:57.850 --> 01:20:59.810
degree that wouldn't work in the real world, but it
1512
01:20:59.850 --> 01:21:03.109
works well for TV. And people can sense if you're
1513
01:21:03.130 --> 01:21:05.630
dialing up a part of who you really are compared
1514
01:21:05.649 --> 01:21:08.329
to dialing up something that was written for you that
1515
01:21:08.449 --> 01:21:11.800
isn't really who you are. And that authenticity is such
1516
01:21:11.840 --> 01:21:14.539
a key to getting over. But you can't just be
1517
01:21:14.600 --> 01:21:17.199
authentic and entertaining without also being a badass who people
1518
01:21:17.260 --> 01:21:20.680
take seriously in the ring and think are tough
and
1519
01:21:20.699 --> 01:21:22.590
going to win fights. And you have to put that
1520
01:21:22.609 --> 01:21:24.329
all together. And I'm just not, you know, going back
1521
01:21:24.369 --> 01:21:27.710
to Seth and Dean, I'm not sure they've found that
1522
01:21:27.850 --> 01:21:31.229
magic combination yet. And it's why when you say who's over,
1523
01:21:32.029 --> 01:21:34.489
I think immediately of the top guys. And I don't
1524
01:21:34.529 --> 01:21:36.789
think they're over. Not in the sense that that term
1525
01:21:36.829 --> 01:21:39.489
is traditionally used when big money is being drawn.
1526
01:21:40.479 --> 01:21:42.140
Well, I know. But, you know, and also you got
1527
01:21:42.149 --> 01:21:43.840
to look at the locker room, you know, back in.
1528
01:21:44.380 --> 01:21:46.359
You know, when I started out, I was working with
1529
01:21:46.380 --> 01:21:48.859
guys that had been in the business 20 years. And
1530
01:21:49.579 --> 01:21:52.539
my whole career had guys win, you know, a locker
1531
01:21:52.600 --> 01:21:55.300
full of veterans. You know, when you look at the
1532
01:21:55.340 --> 01:21:59.430
list of guys that's really over that can give these
1533
01:21:59.479 --> 01:22:02.369
guys any kind of 4-1-1, the list is kind of
1534
01:22:02.390 --> 01:22:04.489
few and far between because there's some guys that are
1535
01:22:04.529 --> 01:22:08.090
kind of over but not mega over. And, you know,
1536
01:22:08.109 --> 01:22:10.770
like a guy like John Cena or Brock Lesnar who's
1537
01:22:10.829 --> 01:22:14.260
mega over, hey, man– As much as you'd like to
1538
01:22:14.300 --> 01:22:18.199
be able to drop some 411 on someone, their looks,
1539
01:22:18.350 --> 01:22:22.550
their size, seen as charisma, they have so many of
1540
01:22:22.590 --> 01:22:26.050
those attributes and spades. I don't know how much they
1541
01:22:26.069 --> 01:22:29.369
could actually help someone like a Seth Rollins, try to
1542
01:22:29.770 --> 01:22:33.770
enhance his character. But there's enough guys that have been
1543
01:22:33.810 --> 01:22:37.899
around there. I mean, Arne Anderson, some of those agents backstage. uh,
1544
01:22:38.010 --> 01:22:41.050
even events should be able to, uh, you know, help
1545
01:22:41.069 --> 01:22:42.689
these guys out and say, Hey, you know what? I
1546
01:22:42.710 --> 01:22:45.949
was thinking about, uh, you know, the Seth freaking Rollins saying,
1547
01:22:45.970 --> 01:22:47.989
you know, what can we do to really make you
1548
01:22:48.470 --> 01:22:51.409
pop or really make you be a superstar that when,
1549
01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:54.020
when he's walking through the airport, people say, Hey man,
1550
01:22:54.140 --> 01:22:57.899
that's that fucking guy. That's that guy. You know, you
1551
01:22:57.920 --> 01:22:58.439
know what I'm saying?
1552
01:22:58.840 --> 01:22:59.539
Yeah, absolutely.
1553
01:23:00.500 --> 01:23:00.880
Well, okay.
1554
01:23:01.119 --> 01:23:05.329
Uh, Goldberg gets
that reaction. I mean, for 20 years,
1555
01:23:05.590 --> 01:23:08.670
people have been seeing him in airports going, that's that guy,
1556
01:23:08.729 --> 01:23:12.600
as you put it. He's back now, 49 years old,
1557
01:23:13.399 --> 01:23:15.600
turning 50 next month, going to get in the ring
1558
01:23:15.640 --> 01:23:18.479
with Brock Lesnar. As Ric Flair talked about this on
1559
01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:20.000
Busted Open Radio this week, and I put up a
1560
01:23:20.239 --> 01:23:24.239
story on this and highlights that pwtorch.com with quotes and
1561
01:23:24.279 --> 01:23:27.430
some thoughts on it. He said, Ric said, you know,
1562
01:23:27.689 --> 01:23:28.890
he's a guy who's been in the ring in his
1563
01:23:29.170 --> 01:23:31.149
50s and 60s. He's like, I'm not sure a guy
1564
01:23:31.189 --> 01:23:33.949
who hasn't wrestled And I know Goldberg, he says, Goldberg
1565
01:23:33.970 --> 01:23:35.310
keeps himself in good shape and does a lot of
1566
01:23:35.329 --> 01:23:37.130
cross training and that type of thing. He's a little
1567
01:23:37.170 --> 01:23:39.090
nervous for him getting in there with Brock under the
1568
01:23:39.149 --> 01:23:44.189
spotlight with no net. How do you feel about that?
1569
01:23:45.229 --> 01:23:48.340
Goldberg at his age with not a lot of ring experience, period,
1570
01:23:48.399 --> 01:23:50.680
relative to other guys who have made his money and
1571
01:23:50.699 --> 01:23:53.500
been on top, now getting in the ring with Brock.
1572
01:23:54.579 --> 01:23:57.920
Do you think that match can be smooth and executed,
1573
01:23:58.119 --> 01:23:59.399
or are you a little nervous about it?
1574
01:24:00.970 --> 01:24:02.989
Well, I'm not a little nervous about it. I'm excited
1575
01:24:03.029 --> 01:24:04.710
to see Bill back. I know he wanted to go
1576
01:24:04.750 --> 01:24:08.250
back so his son could see him perform one or
1577
01:24:08.289 --> 01:24:11.250
two more times, whatever Joe Burke's deal is. I don't
1578
01:24:11.270 --> 01:24:13.270
know what his deal is. I was at his house
1579
01:24:13.289 --> 01:24:15.649
a few months ago, and I knew he was going
1580
01:24:15.670 --> 01:24:17.869
to be on the back of the 2K17 game, but
1581
01:24:18.329 --> 01:24:20.729
didn't know any of this stuff was going to transpire
1582
01:24:20.770 --> 01:24:23.909
into what it has. Maybe he doesn't either, but he
1583
01:24:23.939 --> 01:24:27.609
totally kayfabed me. But, you know, see him get out
1584
01:24:27.630 --> 01:24:29.949
there and, you know, to step in the ring with
1585
01:24:29.970 --> 01:24:33.189
Brock here and give or take three weeks. It's going
1586
01:24:33.210 --> 01:24:35.670
to be it's going to be interesting. You know, I
1587
01:24:35.789 --> 01:24:38.789
was right there front and center in Madison Square Garden,
1588
01:24:39.029 --> 01:24:42.109
you know, back to 12 years ago. And, you know,
1589
01:24:42.149 --> 01:24:45.520
both those guys are leaving the company, and the
match
1590
01:24:45.560 --> 01:24:48.300
just wasn't that good. I wish him all the luck
1591
01:24:48.319 --> 01:24:50.640
in the world. You know, Brock Lesnar can have a
1592
01:24:50.659 --> 01:24:54.460
good match with anybody, and so can Goldberg. That match
1593
01:24:54.479 --> 01:24:57.430
he had with Diamond Dallas Page was a damn classic.
1594
01:24:58.090 --> 01:25:00.649
So if they get the right people helping these guys out,
1595
01:25:01.189 --> 01:25:03.710
you know, it could be a knock-down, drag-out affair, and
1596
01:25:03.770 --> 01:25:06.489
I think that's what people expected 12 years ago. Now,
1597
01:25:06.590 --> 01:25:09.529
on the other side of that, the fact is, You know,
1598
01:25:09.670 --> 01:25:12.760
Bill Goldberg is 12 years older. But, you know, hell,
1599
01:25:12.880 --> 01:25:14.949
I was at his house. I've seen him punch, kick,
1600
01:25:14.989 --> 01:25:17.060
do all that Muay Thai stuff. He's still strong as
1601
01:25:17.100 --> 01:25:19.760
a bull, probably not strong as Brock. At one time,
1602
01:25:19.840 --> 01:25:22.800
I would consider those guys almost equally explosive to the
1603
01:25:22.840 --> 01:25:25.600
strongest guys in the history of the business. Brock is
1604
01:25:25.659 --> 01:25:29.159
a freak athlete. You know, Brock's got to be Brock. And,
1605
01:25:29.619 --> 01:25:31.680
you know, I don't know how dinged up Bill is.
1606
01:25:31.739 --> 01:25:34.180
He was getting along pretty good when I saw him. But,
1607
01:25:34.220 --> 01:25:35.479
you know, when you go in there and you work
1608
01:25:35.500 --> 01:25:39.140
a match with Brock Lesnar and you were and still
1609
01:25:39.260 --> 01:25:44.340
are Bill Goldberg, there's got to be some drastic physicality
1610
01:25:44.359 --> 01:25:47.180
to this. This is not going to be, you know,
1611
01:25:47.239 --> 01:25:50.560
Brock taking powders out of the ring, you know, because
1612
01:25:50.579 --> 01:25:52.640
he's worried about Bill Goldberg. This is going to be
1613
01:25:52.699 --> 01:25:55.859
two big bulls in there fighting. And we'll just see
1614
01:25:55.899 --> 01:25:59.279
how they lay it out. I'm not nervous. I'm hopeful.
1615
01:25:59.680 --> 01:26:02.310
I'm hopeful that they just kick ass and blow the
1616
01:26:02.319 --> 01:26:05.720
roof off the place. That remains to be seen. Certainly
1617
01:26:05.819 --> 01:26:08.470
there's pressure on them because of what happened 12 years ago,
1618
01:26:08.970 --> 01:26:11.050
but both guys are very good friends of mine, so
1619
01:26:11.130 --> 01:26:13.930
I want them to have a classic. And it can
1620
01:26:13.970 --> 01:26:17.970
be a brutal, brief, 10-minute classic. I don't care how
1621
01:26:18.029 --> 01:26:20.210
long it is as long as it's good and as
1622
01:26:20.289 --> 01:26:23.550
long as it suits both guys' character and it's good
1623
01:26:23.590 --> 01:26:25.720
for both guys. And you can look at it and
1624
01:26:25.729 --> 01:26:28.319
you can say,
okay, well, what's the finish going to be? Okay. Okay.
1625
01:26:28.689 --> 01:26:31.050
Let's just forget about the finish. We'll see what happens
1626
01:26:31.090 --> 01:26:33.529
when the finish goes down. Both guys need to go
1627
01:26:33.609 --> 01:26:35.310
out there and be who and what they are.
1628
01:26:38.470 --> 01:26:40.890
Is Brock Lesnar, when you watch him in the ring
1629
01:26:41.170 --> 01:26:46.170
or his reputation, is he somebody who you think takes
1630
01:26:46.470 --> 01:26:49.689
it easy? People watch his match and go, oh, God,
1631
01:26:49.710 --> 01:26:50.970
look what he did to John Cena a few years
1632
01:26:50.989 --> 01:26:53.350
ago at SummerSlam. And all those suplexes have to hurt.
1633
01:26:53.729 --> 01:26:57.739
But I've heard that, on the contrary, it's because of
1634
01:26:57.840 --> 01:27:03.590
Brock's strength and freakish athleticism that he's actually more likely
1635
01:27:03.649 --> 01:27:07.270
to take care of you in the ring than somebody
1636
01:27:07.609 --> 01:27:11.970
who is not as muscular and strong and coordinated as Brock.
1637
01:27:12.189 --> 01:27:14.369
Do people have that sort of backwards? Not that Brock
1638
01:27:14.409 --> 01:27:18.479
can't be stiff or lay it in. We know he can.
1639
01:27:18.520 --> 01:27:21.140
He's been a UFC heavyweight champion. He won his last
1640
01:27:21.220 --> 01:27:24.920
UFC fight, but does that strength and power necessarily make
1641
01:27:24.979 --> 01:27:27.720
wrestling him more dangerous, or as a good athlete, is
1642
01:27:27.760 --> 01:27:29.180
he just more in control of what's happening?
1643
01:27:30.579 --> 01:27:32.000
Well, I mean, he kind of likes to lay his
1644
01:27:32.020 --> 01:27:34.199
stuff in, and sometimes some of those knees look a
1645
01:27:34.199 --> 01:27:37.439
little bit snug, but Brock is not of the mindset
1646
01:27:37.470 --> 01:27:41.590
to try to hurt anybody. Could he? Certainly could, just
1647
01:27:41.630 --> 01:27:45.130
to your point. He's a former UFC heavyweight champion. We
1648
01:27:45.149 --> 01:27:49.130
saw what he did to Mark Hunt. So Brock's a badass,
1649
01:27:49.189 --> 01:27:53.130
and everybody knows that, but I think just a fear of, hey, man,
1650
01:27:53.149 --> 01:27:54.890
this guy's so physical, I think he's going to hurt me.
1651
01:27:55.050 --> 01:27:57.670
I think that would bother or can bother a few guys.
1652
01:27:58.649 --> 01:28:01.329
I certainly don't think it bothers Goldberg or like the
1653
01:28:01.369 --> 01:28:03.949
Cena's of the world. You know, Cena's a road warrior.
1654
01:28:04.390 --> 01:28:06.630
And since you brought up that match, they had those
1655
01:28:06.689 --> 01:28:09.680
people for a couple of minutes. Cena needed to fire up.
1656
01:28:10.279 --> 01:28:12.520
and really get some offense on Brock. And the crowd
1657
01:28:12.560 --> 01:28:15.819
dropped off, and they never could get him again. But, yeah,
1658
01:28:15.890 --> 01:28:18.899
it just needs to be a case. I don't think
1659
01:28:19.439 --> 01:28:21.649
Bill's worried about getting injured. He's going to go in
1660
01:28:21.689 --> 01:28:24.569
there just like I saw him on ESPN the other day. Hey, man,
1661
01:28:24.590 --> 01:28:27.250
when he does something, he goes in 100%. I think
1662
01:28:27.289 --> 01:28:29.670
Brock's a safe guy. You know, the hard way with
1663
01:28:29.710 --> 01:28:32.350
Randy Orton was well done, but that was also planned,
1664
01:28:32.369 --> 01:28:36.250
whether you agree with it or not, whatever. But, you know, Brock,
1665
01:28:36.970 --> 01:28:39.029
because he is so big and strong, he can safely
1666
01:28:39.050 --> 01:28:40.760
throw your ass wherever. you want to get thrown.
1667
01:28:43.060 --> 01:28:45.060
Did you see the angle he did with Rusev on Monday?
1668
01:28:46.960 --> 01:28:51.359
Who, Bill Goldberg? Yeah. No, I missed that. I meant
1669
01:28:51.380 --> 01:28:52.539
to watch that. What happened?
1670
01:28:53.260 --> 01:28:56.819
Yeah, just Goldberg came out, Heyman interrupted. They did some
1671
01:28:56.859 --> 01:29:00.119
back and forth, and then Heyman said– he's the crowd
1672
01:29:00.159 --> 01:29:01.930
that Lesnar was here and he was going to fight.
1673
01:29:02.649 --> 01:29:05.189
And then Lesnar didn't come out. Heyman laughed, ha ha
1674
01:29:05.270 --> 01:29:07.130
tricked y'all. But he says, but that doesn't mean I
1675
01:29:07.149 --> 01:29:10.649
didn't come without backup. And then Rusev came out and
1676
01:29:10.949 --> 01:29:13.770
Goldberg and Rusev locked up. There was a moment where
1677
01:29:13.789 --> 01:29:16.680
Rusev or where Goldberg slipped and kind of dropped to
1678
01:29:16.739 --> 01:29:18.020
a drop down to his knee and then had to
1679
01:29:18.060 --> 01:29:22.699
pop up back up again before executing the jackhammer on Rusev.
1680
01:29:22.720 --> 01:29:24.939
So it was a little bit awkward. And then he
1681
01:29:24.979 --> 01:29:28.279
gave Heyman a spear and then he left the ring
1682
01:29:28.310 --> 01:29:31.000
and If you had seen it, I was going to ask, like,
1683
01:29:31.039 --> 01:29:33.520
body language-wise, I couldn't tell if Goldberg– because he was
1684
01:29:33.539 --> 01:29:36.579
huffing and puffing. Like, I mean, under the lights, you're
1685
01:29:36.600 --> 01:29:39.399
going to blow up quicker. And he looked– he was
1686
01:29:39.439 --> 01:29:42.020
kind of frowning. And I was wondering if the read
1687
01:29:42.119 --> 01:29:44.819
on that was he felt like it could have gone better.
1688
01:29:45.600 --> 01:29:47.260
It's hard to spear Paul Heyman and have it look
1689
01:29:47.279 --> 01:29:48.970
good because you're trying to protect Paul. He's not going
1690
01:29:48.979 --> 01:29:51.109
to take a good bump on that. But it was
1691
01:29:51.149 --> 01:29:53.590
like there was some good and some not so good,
1692
01:29:53.630 --> 01:29:56.779
and it made people go, uh-oh. You know, what might
1693
01:29:56.840 --> 01:30:00.189
happen when Lesnar, excuse me, when Goldberg, who his selling
1694
01:30:00.250 --> 01:30:03.170
point and his asset is his intensity and getting worked
1695
01:30:03.250 --> 01:30:05.569
up and making you believe. But could he end up
1696
01:30:05.590 --> 01:30:10.000
a little overwhelmed after 12 years out? And could he
1697
01:30:10.060 --> 01:30:12.159
end up kind of getting blown up? I think it's
1698
01:30:12.180 --> 01:30:13.560
good to be in the ring with Lesnar, who's going
1699
01:30:13.579 --> 01:30:15.659
to be a ring veteran who can handle that and
1700
01:30:15.699 --> 01:30:17.619
calm him down if that happens. That was my take
1701
01:30:17.659 --> 01:30:20.199
on Monday night watching it. Well, you know what?
1702
01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:23.420
When you recounted that, I actually saw that. I missed
1703
01:30:23.460 --> 01:30:25.619
the bobble. I think I turned my head away, but
1704
01:30:25.649 --> 01:30:28.350
I saw the jackhammer, I guess. I saw the spear.
1705
01:30:30.510 --> 01:30:33.510
I didn't see what he was wearing. Was he wearing boots?
1706
01:30:34.329 --> 01:30:36.810
Because he always wears boots, like work boots kind of thing.
1707
01:30:37.970 --> 01:30:40.789
And maybe that's where the, that's probably the trip up
1708
01:30:40.869 --> 01:30:43.220
or that's, that's probably what you're referring to. Cause there's
1709
01:30:43.260 --> 01:30:44.819
been a couple of occasions when I was out there
1710
01:30:44.859 --> 01:30:47.520
and some footwear that wasn't so great on that mat
1711
01:30:47.539 --> 01:30:49.960
and you get tripped up and you know, you just,
1712
01:30:49.979 --> 01:30:52.079
you feel like when you trip or you do something
1713
01:30:52.100 --> 01:30:56.229
wrong or you slip, it's, it's, it's not just embarrassing.
1714
01:30:56.239 --> 01:30:59.569
You cover for it, but you don't want it to happen.
1715
01:30:59.890 --> 01:31:02.350
So it was probably, it was probably a footwear issue.
1716
01:31:02.609 --> 01:31:04.869
And then, you know, as far as helping and pumping, man,
1717
01:31:04.890 --> 01:31:07.050
let me tell you something. There was a couple of times,
1718
01:31:07.090 --> 01:31:09.710
I think, when I came back from whatever I was
1719
01:31:09.729 --> 01:31:11.470
coming back from to do that two out of three
1720
01:31:11.510 --> 01:31:15.569
falls match with Triple H in Las Vegas. And, you know,
1721
01:31:15.590 --> 01:31:18.850
I was about a 40-some-odd-minute match, and I wasn't in
1722
01:31:18.909 --> 01:31:21.550
very good shape because I'd been on the sidelines for
1723
01:31:21.590 --> 01:31:24.590
so long. And you can get out on a pre-core,
1724
01:31:24.609 --> 01:31:27.840
an elliptical machine, a treadmill, a bicycle. You can kick
1725
01:31:27.880 --> 01:31:31.119
a bag in a Muay Thai gym, but there ain't
1726
01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:34.180
nothing like locking up with the guy throwing a headlock
1727
01:31:34.300 --> 01:31:38.229
on him or going into a corner and exchanging blows
1728
01:31:38.390 --> 01:31:40.329
or hitting the ropes in a high spot, you know,
1729
01:31:40.350 --> 01:31:43.170
getting it again, going back into a hold. Hey man,
1730
01:31:43.189 --> 01:31:46.010
that will blow your ass up. So, you know, I
1731
01:31:46.569 --> 01:31:49.770
hope that they've sent a gym down there to his,
1732
01:31:50.149 --> 01:31:52.039
I hope they sent a ring down there to his gym.
1733
01:31:52.079 --> 01:31:55.369
He's got a great facility down there outside of San Diego. And,
1734
01:31:56.069 --> 01:31:59.270
My old thing was anytime I was coming back, working
1735
01:31:59.289 --> 01:32:02.130
with Savio Vega or going up to Lima, Ohio to
1736
01:32:02.170 --> 01:32:03.810
work with Al Snow for about a week when I
1737
01:32:03.850 --> 01:32:06.689
first came into WWE, just get in the ring and
1738
01:32:06.729 --> 01:32:09.600
start hitting the ropes. Just start doing drop downs, hitting
1739
01:32:09.619 --> 01:32:14.939
the ropes. Just keep crisscrossing, stopping the third turnbuckle, back
1740
01:32:15.000 --> 01:32:19.140
into action. You basically just work with yourself. And when
1741
01:32:19.180 --> 01:32:21.140
I was training back in Texas to come back from
1742
01:32:21.159 --> 01:32:24.239
my neck injury, they'd fly guys into my ranch. In
1743
01:32:24.260 --> 01:32:27.159
my barn, they put up a ring so I could
1744
01:32:27.199 --> 01:32:29.500
get back in ring shape. You know, you can talk
1745
01:32:29.520 --> 01:32:31.439
about Muay Thai all you want, but until you get
1746
01:32:31.479 --> 01:32:34.460
back in a ring, it's a whole different thing than sparring.
1747
01:32:34.920 --> 01:32:36.699
And make no bones about it, when you got those
1748
01:32:36.760 --> 01:32:39.979
bright lights, all those camera guys out there, and 20,000
1749
01:32:39.979 --> 01:32:43.250
people out there in the crowd, the nerves come into play.
1750
01:32:43.289 --> 01:32:45.659
So you could be in good shape. When those nerves
1751
01:32:45.680 --> 01:32:47.260
start coming into play and all of a sudden you're
1752
01:32:47.279 --> 01:32:51.100
just taking those shallow breaths and five minutes in, you're gassed.
1753
01:32:51.500 --> 01:32:54.579
I've seen guys walk down the ramp and be gassed
1754
01:32:54.739 --> 01:32:57.939
because of the crowd. I've seen it a million times. Yep.
1755
01:33:01.460 --> 01:33:04.460
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk? Then join me,
1756
01:33:04.520 --> 01:33:08.100
Jason Powell, host of the three-weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast.
1757
01:33:08.579 --> 01:33:10.739
Each week, you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
1758
01:33:10.800 --> 01:33:13.479
me and my team at ProWrestling.net along with other pro
1759
01:33:13.510 --> 01:33:16.949
wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features
1760
01:33:17.010 --> 01:33:20.369
long-form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry.
1761
01:33:20.649 --> 01:33:24.470
Subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps.
1762
01:33:24.970 --> 01:33:30.569
Or visit us directly at pwboom.com. Once again, that's pwboom.com.
1763
01:33:33.449 --> 01:33:35.270
That's what I was wondering if a little bit of
1764
01:33:35.310 --> 01:33:37.569
that didn't happen on Monday night. I mean, I thought
1765
01:33:37.600 --> 01:33:40.020
it was a really special moment two weeks ago. with
1766
01:33:40.029 --> 01:33:42.060
Goldberg in the ring and his, his wife and his
1767
01:33:42.079 --> 01:33:45.260
son at ringside and the crowd absolutely embraced him and
1768
01:33:45.300 --> 01:33:47.479
just went bonkers for him. It was in the rating
1769
01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:50.239
went up and it just, it was a real special moment.
1770
01:33:50.279 --> 01:33:53.479
And I, I, you know, everybody says Bill's a good guy.
1771
01:33:53.800 --> 01:33:56.279
I mean, like, I love that. He, he's, you know,
1772
01:33:56.319 --> 01:33:59.140
in animal rights and animal welfare, he's got the soft,
1773
01:33:59.380 --> 01:34:01.619
the soft part of his heart. He's, you know, he
1774
01:34:01.640 --> 01:34:04.859
got thrown into this, this cauldron of politics and WCW
1775
01:34:05.270 --> 01:34:07.250
as a green guy, not just in the ring, but
1776
01:34:07.270 --> 01:34:10.239
to the politics of wrestling and, and, and came out
1777
01:34:10.260 --> 01:34:12.979
of it and with a lot of money and his
1778
01:34:13.039 --> 01:34:15.180
body intact. And he has enough of a love for
1779
01:34:15.199 --> 01:34:17.100
it that he wants his wife and his kid, his
1780
01:34:17.119 --> 01:34:20.279
kids to see him, you know, I mean, and to
1781
01:34:20.319 --> 01:34:23.000
be able to do that now and to have a
1782
01:34:23.020 --> 01:34:25.619
high profile match like this, make some extra money, but
1783
01:34:25.659 --> 01:34:28.970
also have that, that moment, I think is really, really cool.
1784
01:34:29.029 --> 01:34:30.350
And I know you're friends with them and you're hanging
1785
01:34:30.369 --> 01:34:33.430
out with them. Even are you just excited and happy
1786
01:34:33.489 --> 01:34:36.109
for him as a person that this came to fruition,
1787
01:34:36.189 --> 01:34:38.229
knowing how much he did want this to happen?
1788
01:34:39.439 --> 01:34:42.010
Yeah, I was glad to see it happen. I don't
1789
01:34:42.029 --> 01:34:44.970
think Bill had a very good run. His first go-round
1790
01:34:45.010 --> 01:34:48.529
in WWE, he was coming off being paid by WCW,
1791
01:34:48.550 --> 01:34:50.710
had a great deal over there. He was super, super
1792
01:34:50.810 --> 01:34:54.300
over in WCW. The window had kind of already closed.
1793
01:34:54.380 --> 01:34:55.899
I was kind of getting ready to get out of there.
1794
01:34:57.100 --> 01:35:00.789
So Stone Cold versus Goldberg never happened. But all these
1795
01:35:00.829 --> 01:35:03.649
years that go by, you know, because he was over
1796
01:35:03.670 --> 01:35:06.189
in WCW, he gets in the big leagues and it
1797
01:35:06.270 --> 01:35:08.750
wasn't so much whether it was the writing, whether he
1798
01:35:08.789 --> 01:35:12.470
didn't really fit the system for whatever reasons. But when
1799
01:35:12.510 --> 01:35:14.729
he got back in the ring two weeks ago and
1800
01:35:14.750 --> 01:35:19.949
that crowd started going, go, Berg, go, he had tears
1801
01:35:19.989 --> 01:35:22.909
in his eye. And when you've been away from the
1802
01:35:22.930 --> 01:35:24.850
business that long and you go back and you get
1803
01:35:24.890 --> 01:35:29.270
that kind of response and you remember, you realize that
1804
01:35:29.350 --> 01:35:32.270
even though you're gone 12 years, these people still respect
1805
01:35:32.300 --> 01:35:34.250
the hell out of you and they love you. They
1806
01:35:34.289 --> 01:35:37.510
got a chance to live vicariously of all those spears
1807
01:35:37.569 --> 01:35:40.970
and jackhammers and that intensity that he brought down with
1808
01:35:41.010 --> 01:35:44.270
that great entrance, walking through the back with the pyro,
1809
01:35:44.310 --> 01:35:47.350
breathing the smoke. You know, it was quite a spectacle.
1810
01:35:47.409 --> 01:35:51.109
I mean, and he was a big-time guy. And so
1811
01:35:51.609 --> 01:35:54.279
you get away from the business, and sometimes it's like, eh,
1812
01:35:54.300 --> 01:35:56.399
piss on the business, forget about it, you know, I'm
1813
01:35:56.500 --> 01:35:58.659
over it. And you go back in the ring for
1814
01:35:58.699 --> 01:36:01.079
a moment like that, and it brings all those feelings
1815
01:36:01.140 --> 01:36:04.239
and emotions back. And, hey, man, there's some dollars and
1816
01:36:04.979 --> 01:36:07.020
some cents on the table that are going to go
1817
01:36:07.039 --> 01:36:09.899
to Bill Goldberg and the WWE. But this wasn't about
1818
01:36:09.920 --> 01:36:13.779
the money. It was about the crowd responding in such
1819
01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:16.979
a great fashion. And Bill, I don't know as a
1820
01:36:17.020 --> 01:36:19.229
promo guy if he's the greatest promo guy that ever
1821
01:36:19.279 --> 01:36:22.550
walked the planet that did business in a squared circle.
1822
01:36:22.590 --> 01:36:26.489
But an A-plus promo by Bill Goldberg handling the task
1823
01:36:26.510 --> 01:36:30.560
at hand, all those emotions, it was completely real. and authentic,
1824
01:36:30.939 --> 01:36:32.909
and I just thought it was a great piece of television.
1825
01:36:32.949 --> 01:36:36.390
And if the ratings went up, that means that he
1826
01:36:36.430 --> 01:36:39.390
did indeed mean something to a lot of people. So
1827
01:36:39.449 --> 01:36:41.550
I'm excited for his opportunity, and I'm glad to see
1828
01:36:41.590 --> 01:36:44.869
him back. And, you know, whoever knows how long it's
1829
01:36:44.890 --> 01:36:46.520
going to last, you know, whatever it is, whether it's
1830
01:36:46.640 --> 01:36:49.720
one match, two match, or whatever, it was a good
1831
01:36:49.760 --> 01:36:52.000
piece of TV, and Bill handled it about as good
1832
01:36:52.039 --> 01:36:53.079
as anybody could have handled it.
1833
01:36:54.279 --> 01:36:56.369
Two quick closing topics, Stephen. Thank you very much for
1834
01:36:56.390 --> 01:36:58.069
your time. I wasn't expecting to go this long, but
1835
01:36:58.130 --> 01:37:01.630
the conversation is really flowing. I appreciate it. You mentioned
1836
01:37:01.649 --> 01:37:05.140
Shawn Michaels real early in the conversation. People wondering, hey,
1837
01:37:05.220 --> 01:37:09.800
San Antonio, the Royal Rumble, AJ Styles dropping Shawn Michaels' name.
1838
01:37:09.840 --> 01:37:13.000
I think Shawn dropped AJ's name at some point. Do
1839
01:37:13.020 --> 01:37:16.630
you think there's any chance? Because Shawn, I mean, he's
1840
01:37:16.649 --> 01:37:19.720
going down to the Performance Center, helping out. um you
1841
01:37:19.760 --> 01:37:22.699
know he's got his toe dip back in you know
1842
01:37:22.760 --> 01:37:25.619
him you hung around with him you've seen his resolve
1843
01:37:25.920 --> 01:37:28.729
that he doesn't want to break his retirement stip so
1844
01:37:28.739 --> 01:37:30.930
to speak he liked how he ended it he doesn't
1845
01:37:30.970 --> 01:37:32.989
want to disappoint people he comes back because the bar
1846
01:37:33.029 --> 01:37:35.989
is so high for his work where are you on
1847
01:37:36.029 --> 01:37:39.029
the on the odds meter that sean returns either in
1848
01:37:39.050 --> 01:37:41.850
san antonio or at some other time versus no we've
1849
01:37:41.869 --> 01:37:44.079
seen his last match Well.
1850
01:37:44.100 --> 01:37:45.659
I don't know, man. There was rumors it was down
1851
01:37:45.680 --> 01:37:48.000
there in Florida. So, I mean, he's got access to
1852
01:37:48.060 --> 01:37:51.079
a ring. You know, San Antonio was his hometown for years.
1853
01:37:52.439 --> 01:37:57.739
And I think there's a 10% chance of it happening.
1854
01:37:58.300 --> 01:38:02.079
And it wouldn't– if Sean said, you know what, I
1855
01:38:02.140 --> 01:38:03.619
am going to go one more time and it's going
1856
01:38:03.640 --> 01:38:06.859
to be with AJ Styles, I wouldn't go, gosh darn it,
1857
01:38:07.380 --> 01:38:09.510
he told me he was going to retire and I
1858
01:38:09.550 --> 01:38:11.710
just always expected him to live up to his word.
1859
01:38:11.729 --> 01:38:11.810
Amen.
1860
01:38:12.390 --> 01:38:15.649
Amen. I'm a Shawn Michaels fan. You know, it'd be
1861
01:38:15.689 --> 01:38:18.300
neat to sit there and watch him and AJ have
1862
01:38:18.319 --> 01:38:20.970
a match to see what Shawn still got left in
1863
01:38:20.970 --> 01:38:23.680
the tank. And, you know, he's been away from, you know,
1864
01:38:23.680 --> 01:38:26.310
he's not training heavy and he's he's been hunting he's
1865
01:38:26.340 --> 01:38:28.880
been doing all of his other stuff so
I don't
1866
01:38:28.899 --> 01:38:30.819
know what kind of shape the guy's in I know
1867
01:38:30.880 --> 01:38:32.520
he's he's in as good a shape as he can
1868
01:38:32.560 --> 01:38:34.300
be he's not a drinker he's not a smoker he's
1869
01:38:34.340 --> 01:38:37.539
not a party guy he's completely off everything that he
1870
01:38:37.579 --> 01:38:40.550
was way back in the day decades ago so I
1871
01:38:40.590 --> 01:38:43.550
know he's in a good place mentally and probably physically
1872
01:38:43.609 --> 01:38:45.949
but to spin up for a match like that and
1873
01:38:46.439 --> 01:38:49.020
You know, anybody who knows Shawn Michaels knows that if
1874
01:38:49.039 --> 01:38:50.779
you're going to work with him now, the time I
1875
01:38:50.800 --> 01:38:53.359
worked with him at WrestleMania 14 was an average match.
1876
01:38:53.420 --> 01:38:56.279
He had a bad back, had a bad attitude and
1877
01:38:56.310 --> 01:38:59.170
didn't really want to drop the belt. But other than that,
1878
01:38:59.289 --> 01:39:02.310
anybody that's ever worked with Shawn Michaels knows you better
1879
01:39:02.369 --> 01:39:04.350
have your shit together or you're going to get blown
1880
01:39:04.409 --> 01:39:07.449
out of the water. Because Shawn Michaels is the greatest
1881
01:39:07.529 --> 01:39:09.710
in-ring performer in the history of the business, and that's
1882
01:39:09.729 --> 01:39:11.850
the bottom line. So if you're going to line up
1883
01:39:11.890 --> 01:39:13.909
with Shawn, you've got to be ready to go. And
1884
01:39:13.970 --> 01:39:16.350
I know AJ would be ready to go. But how
1885
01:39:16.449 --> 01:39:19.609
far can Shawn go is the question. Maybe we'll see.
1886
01:39:19.770 --> 01:39:22.060
I say that matches a 10% chance that it happens.
1887
01:39:23.159 --> 01:39:25.699
And I assume your chance of you returning, talking about
1888
01:39:25.819 --> 01:39:29.479
HBK and now seeing Goldberg, remains less than 1%, if
1889
01:39:29.520 --> 01:39:30.020
not zero.
1890
01:39:32.060 --> 01:39:32.680
I'll say that again.
1891
01:39:33.680 --> 01:39:35.899
Your chance of returning to the ring, does it change
1892
01:39:35.960 --> 01:39:38.859
from less than 1% or zero based on talking about
1893
01:39:38.899 --> 01:39:41.819
Sean and seeing Goldberg? Because people want to know, and
1894
01:39:41.840 --> 01:39:43.079
I know you get tired of the question.
1895
01:39:43.979 --> 01:39:48.079
No, you know, it's always interesting when WrestleMania comes around. No,
1896
01:39:48.380 --> 01:39:51.310
I'm done. I love doing my reality television show. I
1897
01:39:51.350 --> 01:39:54.729
love doing my podcast. I'm starting to– we've got a
1898
01:39:54.750 --> 01:39:56.689
remodel going over here in my house. I've had a
1899
01:39:56.970 --> 01:39:59.989
couple of business obligations with Kawasaki and some other things
1900
01:40:00.010 --> 01:40:02.560
that I'm involved with. keep me from going down to
1901
01:40:02.600 --> 01:40:06.000
the ranch a little bit sooner than I would have liked. Man,
1902
01:40:06.239 --> 01:40:09.920
I really enjoy my schedule now. I do the things
1903
01:40:09.939 --> 01:40:12.890
that I love and I'm passionate about and that are
1904
01:40:13.789 --> 01:40:16.289
conducive to my health. I don't need to go back
1905
01:40:16.329 --> 01:40:19.050
in the ring and take any more bumps. I left
1906
01:40:19.109 --> 01:40:22.630
back in 2003 against The Rock at WrestleMania 19, and
1907
01:40:22.670 --> 01:40:26.899
people say, Steve, it wasn't a send-off you deserved. You
1908
01:40:26.920 --> 01:40:29.989
deserved to go out on a bigger note. Hey man,
1909
01:40:30.189 --> 01:40:32.310
I don't deserve anything. You know, I had a good run.
1910
01:40:32.369 --> 01:40:34.149
I got a lot of good memories. I had a
1911
01:40:34.149 --> 01:40:38.270
blast and, uh, man, I'm, I'm, I'm, I will use
1912
01:40:38.300 --> 01:40:41.399
the R word, but I'm done. Yeah. Yeah.
1913
01:40:41.439 --> 01:40:42.920
Well, yeah, you can't use the R word given how
1914
01:40:42.939 --> 01:40:46.119
busy you are with stuff. Um, UFC, Ronda Rousey or
1915
01:40:46.140 --> 01:40:47.840
Conor McGregor, who are you more excited to see come
1916
01:40:47.880 --> 01:40:48.760
back fight later this year?
1917
01:40:49.880 --> 01:40:53.619
Golly, man, son of a gun with the way Ronda
1918
01:40:53.779 --> 01:40:56.989
kind of imploded, you know, after that loss to Holly home,
1919
01:40:57.210 --> 01:40:59.949
it was, uh, You know, and she's, you know, a
1920
01:41:00.069 --> 01:41:02.329
high-level competitor in the Olympics and all that stuff with
1921
01:41:02.369 --> 01:41:05.569
her judo. I'm anxious to see her come back, man,
1922
01:41:05.609 --> 01:41:08.569
against Amanda Nunez. Ooh, she's a bad stick of wood.
1923
01:41:08.909 --> 01:41:10.409
You know, word out on her, you know, if it
1924
01:41:10.430 --> 01:41:13.609
goes past two rounds, I mean, she may gas. But, man,
1925
01:41:13.649 --> 01:41:16.079
she's got heavy hands, I mean, and quick hands. So,
1926
01:41:16.119 --> 01:41:18.920
I mean, she's dangerous. She's very dangerous. As far as
1927
01:41:18.960 --> 01:41:22.220
Conor McGregor goes, man, I love the way a kid fights.
1928
01:41:22.300 --> 01:41:23.880
I love the way he puts on a show. I
1929
01:41:24.119 --> 01:41:28.689
love the way he promotes fights. So, I'm equally excited. But, man,
1930
01:41:29.350 --> 01:41:33.229
I don't think, you know, I'm real impressed with what
1931
01:41:33.289 --> 01:41:36.170
Ronda Rousey was able to do. And then, you know,
1932
01:41:36.210 --> 01:41:39.689
Holly Holmes just had the perfect blueprint to defeat her.
1933
01:41:40.270 --> 01:41:43.069
And so to see her come back, you know, has
1934
01:41:43.109 --> 01:41:46.600
the game passed her by or is she still, you know,
1935
01:41:46.640 --> 01:41:48.880
she's obviously always going to be a very badass, tough woman.
1936
01:41:49.340 --> 01:41:51.260
but
does she have what it takes to make a
1937
01:41:51.300 --> 01:41:54.180
comeback and get that belt back? I mean, that's going
1938
01:41:54.199 --> 01:41:56.119
to be a big-selling pay-per-view, and I'm going to be
1939
01:41:56.189 --> 01:41:58.050
one of the people that buy that pay-per-view just to
1940
01:41:58.090 --> 01:42:00.250
see what Ronda can do. I wish her all the best.
1941
01:42:00.310 --> 01:42:02.770
I think she's been badass. She's been wonderful for the
1942
01:42:02.789 --> 01:42:04.710
sport of MMA and UFC.
1943
01:42:05.710 --> 01:42:08.609
Yeah, I'm looking forward to both fights. I'm more looking
1944
01:42:08.630 --> 01:42:12.569
forward to Ronda Rousey's fight. in the sense that I've
1945
01:42:12.609 --> 01:42:14.590
seen Conor fight a few times since Ronda fought.
1946
01:42:14.989 --> 01:42:17.489
Oh, I agree with you on that note. I agree
1947
01:42:17.529 --> 01:42:20.010
with you on that note. Yeah, as far as, you know, yeah,
1948
01:42:20.090 --> 01:42:23.310
I'm a big Conor fan. But Ronda, for her importance
1949
01:42:23.350 --> 01:42:26.300
to the sport, to win all those matches, finally to
1950
01:42:26.600 --> 01:42:29.279
lose that last fight, and then to make the comeback,
1951
01:42:29.399 --> 01:42:31.600
to see what she can do against, I mean, Amanda
1952
01:42:31.640 --> 01:42:33.859
Nunes is going to be tough. And, you know, we
1953
01:42:33.899 --> 01:42:37.300
saw what happened against, you know, Holly Holm with, you know,
1954
01:42:37.399 --> 01:42:40.699
Holly Holm's badass striking, and Ronda wasn't quite ready for that.
1955
01:42:40.729 --> 01:42:44.229
So it's just, It's a different ballgame, and Amanda Nunez
1956
01:42:44.409 --> 01:42:47.840
is a real good athlete, too. So, yes, on my
1957
01:42:47.939 --> 01:42:52.000
interest level, Wade, I'm going to go Rousey. Yeah, if
1958
01:42:52.039 --> 01:42:54.779
I could only watch one. It's like Ron Nitro. If
1959
01:42:54.800 --> 01:42:57.380
they're on at the same time on opposite channels, I
1960
01:42:57.399 --> 01:43:01.409
think I would tune in to see Ronda's fight. Fortunately,
1961
01:43:01.449 --> 01:43:03.289
that's not the choice we have to make, but it's
1962
01:43:03.310 --> 01:43:03.710
going to be.
1963
01:43:03.670 --> 01:43:05.930
A crazy final two months here in the world of MMA.
1964
01:43:06.170 --> 01:43:09.710
Visit MMATorch.com. Quick plug. We cover it every single day,
1965
01:43:09.750 --> 01:43:12.329
breaking news, commentary, fight previews, live fight coverage, and so
1966
01:43:12.369 --> 01:43:17.609
much more. Steve, your show, Steve Austin's Broken Skull Challenge
1967
01:43:17.829 --> 01:43:23.529
season premiere, Sunday, November 13th, 10 Eastern, 9 Central. They
1968
01:43:23.550 --> 01:43:28.770
can go to cmt.com to watch past episodes and get
1969
01:43:28.789 --> 01:43:32.149
caught up on the show. And you've got Podcast One,
1970
01:43:32.189 --> 01:43:34.649
the Steve Austin show, two shows per week. You
just
1971
01:43:34.670 --> 01:43:37.609
did a show with Kurt Angle that dropped on Tuesday.
1972
01:43:39.460 --> 01:43:41.859
Plug anything else and plug that. Tell people on this
1973
01:43:41.939 --> 01:43:42.460
angle interview.
1974
01:43:43.380 --> 01:43:44.619
Hey, man, I tell you what, I had a great
1975
01:43:44.640 --> 01:43:46.819
talk with Kurt Angle. I read an article that he
1976
01:43:46.859 --> 01:43:48.920
was taking 65 Vicodin a day. So I sent him
1977
01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:51.050
a text message. And, you know, most of the guys
1978
01:43:51.060 --> 01:43:52.930
in the business I don't talk to anymore. I'll send
1979
01:43:52.949 --> 01:43:54.510
him a text message here or there. I'm just not
1980
01:43:54.550 --> 01:43:57.010
a I'm not a phone guy. I'm not trying to be,
1981
01:43:57.229 --> 01:43:59.210
you know, a hermit or nothing. But we just you know,
1982
01:43:59.529 --> 01:44:01.710
I just kind of keep to myself like everybody else does.
1983
01:44:02.439 --> 01:44:03.640
And so I said, hey, man, would you like to
1984
01:44:03.699 --> 01:44:07.159
talk about that on the podcast? Because I never knew
1985
01:44:07.699 --> 01:44:09.659
that you were in that world. So we had a
1986
01:44:09.699 --> 01:44:12.000
great conversation. I think it's one of the best podcasts
1987
01:44:12.020 --> 01:44:14.060
that I've ever done just because of how open and
1988
01:44:14.199 --> 01:44:17.279
candid Kurt was. So, you know, I've got a family-friendly
1989
01:44:17.300 --> 01:44:21.800
show on Tuesday, explicit content on Thursday, and they're on iTunes.
1990
01:44:21.819 --> 01:44:24.359
You download them for free. Like you said, the Broke
1991
01:44:24.380 --> 01:44:28.270
Skull Challenge starts November 13th, 10, 9 Central time. I'll
1992
01:44:28.310 --> 01:44:29.869
tell you what, this is going to be a badass
1993
01:44:29.909 --> 01:44:32.149
season of the show. We had some real awesome people
1994
01:44:32.210 --> 01:44:36.170
out there, and it was a blast. And that's all
1995
01:44:36.189 --> 01:44:41.029
I got to promote, Wade. On Twitter, I'm SteveAustinBSR. On Instagram,
1996
01:44:41.210 --> 01:44:45.050
I'm SteveAustinBSR. And I appreciate you calling me, Wade, and
1997
01:44:45.109 --> 01:44:45.810
putting me on your show.
1998
01:44:46.710 --> 01:44:49.560
Steve, thank you. Always a pleasure. Thank you so much,
1999
01:44:49.609 --> 01:44:50.880
and we'll talk to you soon down the line.
2000
01:44:51.979 --> 01:44:54.810
You got it. Catch you down the road, Wade. Excellent. Thanks.
2001
01:44:55.289 --> 01:44:59.069
That is a stone cold, Steve Austin, November 13th, CMT
2002
01:44:59.590 --> 01:45:02.350
broken skull challenge. Check it out. And always great to
2003
01:45:02.369 --> 01:45:04.010
have Steve on the show. Thanks everybody for joining me.
2004
01:45:04.270 --> 01:45:06.409
If you're not a VIP member, there's so much that
2005
01:45:06.430 --> 01:45:08.390
comes with the VIP membership that I think you will love.
2006
01:45:08.449 --> 01:45:10.430
If you love our style, don't tell anyone else, but
2007
01:45:10.449 --> 01:45:12.329
if you listen this long to the show, you get
2008
01:45:12.369 --> 01:45:14.350
that sale price. So go check it out. Thank you
2009
01:45:14.409 --> 01:45:16.630
everybody for listening. Here are some more details on PW
2010
01:45:16.649 --> 01:45:18.930
torch VIP membership to close out the show and big
2011
01:45:18.970 --> 01:45:20.609
thanks to Gabe Sapolsky at the top of the show.
2012
01:45:21.229 --> 01:45:24.529
and Steve Austin for their generous time and insights into
2013
01:45:24.649 --> 01:45:27.970
both of their current involvement in the professional wrestling industry.
2014
01:46:12.729 --> 01:46:15.909
Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our
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And with a full VIP membership, you can create custom
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regret once you get lost in it for minutes, if
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not hours at a time, and settle in for high-quality
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2038
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when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well,
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now you can listen to him every week on the
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you more.
2042
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Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
2043
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the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
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comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE.
2045
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From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered.
2046
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The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest
2047
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club in town.
2048
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Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling
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lineup online. Again, all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience.
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But with third-tier membership, you can also unlock all the
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2068
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the Wade Keller News Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array
2069
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of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with different hosts and different themes.
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and start your seven-day free trial. If you're listening to
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other app that allows you to rate our podcast, please
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take a moment to give us a five-star rating. It
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really helps us in the algorithm and helps them know
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that you recommend us to others. Just look for a
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or wherever you're listening to our shows, and please click
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that five-star rating. And of course, thank you so much
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to the late 1980s, along with streaming and download access
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to hundreds of retro radio shows from the 1990s, including
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some of my interviews with wrestling's top newsmakers in the 90s,
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and also our podcast library dating back to the year 2003.
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There's no larger.
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Longer-spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with
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Go VIP and dive into our post-pay-per-view roundtables, our coverage
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and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. PWTorch.com
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