Transkrip penuh untuk Iran, Beyond the Headlines with Maziar Bahari

--> 00:02:40.639 person before. Now we have a smart person. A smart person. 35 00:02:41.340 --> 00:02:43.379 And because we have a smart person, you will not 36 00:02:43.419 --> 00:02:47.520 have unforeseen consequences. A smart person that thinks anybody that 37 00:02:47.620 --> 00:02:50.719 might possibly look into whether or not it was actually 38 00:02:50.780 --> 00:02:56.259 obliterated is a scumbag. Press Secretary Carolyn Leavitt comes out 39 00:02:56.840 --> 00:03:00.300 And they ask her, was it obliterated? And she said, 40 00:03:00.460 --> 00:03:05.060 everybody knows what happens when you drop bunk. Everybody knows, 41 00:03:06.060 --> 00:03:08.740 is what she said. Everybody knows what happens when you 42 00:03:08.759 --> 00:03:11.120 have a precision strike with these kinds of weapons. These 43 00:03:11.180 --> 00:03:14.780 weapons have never been used before in the history of 44 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:20.270 the planet. But everybody knows what happens. It's just beyond 45 00:03:21.490 --> 00:03:27.689 the silliness. And if anybody pushes back, they demand 100% 46 00:03:28.259 --> 00:03:33.259 fealty and anything beyond that sets off anger and frustration 47 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:39.419 because of the fragility. And speaking of which, my favorite 48 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:45.120 comment from the news has been, has this attack, what 49 00:03:45.210 --> 00:03:50.469 is the future for Ali Khamenei, for the Ayatollah? What 50 00:03:50.530 --> 00:03:54.550 is the future? Does this put his future in doubt? 51 00:03:55.250 --> 00:04:02.479 And you're like, He's 86. And he ain't Jack LaLanne. Like, 52 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:05.319 he's not the healthiest dude in the world. Like, I 53 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:08.169 don't know what's more dangerous right now to the Ayatollah, 54 00:04:09.430 --> 00:04:16.730 the American and Israeli attacks, or stairs. Like, this is, fuck, man. 55 00:04:18.569 --> 00:04:22.319 But I am, you know, in these moments, years ago, 56 00:04:23.620 --> 00:04:26.439 a friend of mine, Maziar Bahari, was a journalist. and 57 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:29.819 was imprisoned in Iran. And he wrote a book about 58 00:04:29.860 --> 00:04:32.629 his time in solitary confinement. He was imprisoned for reporting 59 00:04:32.829 --> 00:04:37.649 on the Green Revolution in 2008, 2009, during that election. 60 00:04:38.449 --> 00:04:41.670 And wrote a book about it called, and then they 61 00:04:41.850 --> 00:04:45.569 came for me. And then he and I did a 62 00:04:45.589 --> 00:04:51.839 movie about it called Rosewater. And now he does, still 63 00:04:51.899 --> 00:04:55.519 a journalist, and does something called IranWire.com, which allows voices 64 00:04:55.560 --> 00:05:00.000 within Iran to have an outlet where information, because it's 65 00:05:00.019 --> 00:05:02.959 a difficult country to get information out of, can come out. 66 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:07.300 And he is such an interesting and has such an 67 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:13.980 encyclopedic and brilliant knowledge of all that has happened in 68 00:05:14.019 --> 00:05:17.939 that country and the things that are currently happening. And 69 00:05:18.829 --> 00:05:21.149 the first thing I thought as I saw this was, boy, 70 00:05:21.170 --> 00:05:23.470 I just want to talk to Maziar and just see 71 00:05:24.009 --> 00:05:27.240 how he's feeling. what he's thinking about this. And so 72 00:05:28.019 --> 00:05:30.259 very luckily, we're going to get a chance to do 73 00:05:30.300 --> 00:05:40.069 that today. Ladies and gentlemen, oh, what a treat today. 74 00:05:40.230 --> 00:05:49.509 We're very excited. Our guest today, oh my goodness, writer, journalist, filmmaker, 75 00:05:50.540 --> 00:05:58.379 bon vivant, traveler of international... renowned uh author maziar bahari 76 00:05:58.540 --> 00:06:03.800 and also the publisher of iranwire.com and my my dear 77 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:07.949 old friend maziar what are you doing man. 78 00:06:08.769 --> 00:06:11.589 Well you know you called me a bon vivant but 79 00:06:12.149 --> 00:06:14.310 vivant is not bon. 80 00:06:13.850 --> 00:06:17.550 It's you're not you're not bonnie that's all no Yes. No, 81 00:06:17.649 --> 00:06:19.050 I could see. I recognize that. 82 00:06:19.329 --> 00:06:24.769 Yeah. No, it's a very, very sad and tragic moment 83 00:06:24.939 --> 00:06:29.379 for many Iranians, including myself, all around the world. But 84 00:06:29.459 --> 00:06:33.920 for me personally, because many of our colleagues in Iran 85 00:06:34.300 --> 00:06:39.959 and citizen journalists and also the families of our colleagues 86 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:44.939 outside of Iran have been harassed and they've been interrogated 87 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:49.980 by different... Intelligence agents. And this is something that the 88 00:06:50.180 --> 00:06:55.250 Iranian government does when it loses a war, a fight. Right. 89 00:06:55.870 --> 00:07:01.470 Iran has been defeated by Israel. Iran has been embarrassed. 90 00:07:02.550 --> 00:07:05.250 And we are worried that what they're going to do. 91 00:07:05.689 --> 00:07:10.779 They executed three people this morning because of espionage and, 92 00:07:10.819 --> 00:07:13.620 you know, because of an assassination that happened two years ago. 93 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:20.019 They've been forcing people to confess against themselves. So Iranians really, really, 94 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:28.620 they're stuck between this thuggish, hostage-taking, corrupt government and Israelis 95 00:07:28.750 --> 00:07:32.250 who think that by bombing, they can solve everything, that 96 00:07:32.310 --> 00:07:35.389 by bombing, they can bring democracy to Iran. And people 97 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:38.199 are thinking that, okay, if with bombing you could bring 98 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:42.439 democracy to a country, Gaza would be a Scandinavian democracy 99 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:44.519 by now. Gaza would be like Norway. 100 00:07:44.779 -->

00:07:47.759 But it is, so Iranians. 101 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:50.560 Are just, they have these mixed feelings. And as people 102 00:07:50.660 --> 00:07:53.490 outside of Iran who are in touch with Iran all 103 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:57.040 the time, We just feel helpless. And this is just 104 00:07:57.139 --> 00:08:01.139 so depressing. So it's just horrible. 105 00:08:01.220 --> 00:08:04.230 I want to step back for the audience right now 106 00:08:04.290 --> 00:08:07.110 just to give a sense of where Maziar is coming from. 107 00:08:07.170 --> 00:08:11.269 So Maziar, for many of you who don't remember, wrote 108 00:08:11.310 --> 00:08:13.790 a book called And Then They Came For Me. You 109 00:08:13.810 --> 00:08:18.279 were covering the Green Revolution. This was the 2008 election. 110 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:19.040 I think it was... 2009. 111 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:19.360 2009. 112 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:22.899 Ahmadinejad against, was it Mosavi? 113 00:08:23.259 --> 00:08:23.980 Mosavi, yeah. 114 00:08:24.699 --> 00:08:29.279 So Maziar was covering it, filming at the Basij stations 115 00:08:29.339 --> 00:08:31.019 where there was a lot of violence. That's sort of 116 00:08:31.060 --> 00:08:33.539 their kind of secret police that would come out on 117 00:08:33.590 --> 00:08:36.169 these motorcycles and harass and hurt people. 118 00:08:36.409 --> 00:08:37.649 At Basij Arms Depot? 119 00:08:37.690 --> 00:08:37.990 Yes. 120 00:08:38.230 --> 00:08:41.769 In the middle of a residential neighborhood. Right. Don't forget that. 121 00:08:42.049 --> 00:08:44.370 And people were going up to it and being shot 122 00:08:44.389 --> 00:08:52.000 and killed. Maziar was arrested, interrogated, and then held in 123 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:58.539 solitary confinement. at Evin prison for months until a campaign 124 00:08:59.779 --> 00:09:03.179 spearheaded by his wife, Thala, and many other international human 125 00:09:03.220 --> 00:09:07.679 rights groups got him released, got him out. So your 126 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:13.720 experience in Iran is of this moment that you're talking about, 127 00:09:14.759 --> 00:09:18.000 the Iranian government cracking down on what they think are 128 00:09:18.779 --> 00:09:24.389 the dissidents and the people that are undermining whatever their 129 00:09:24.409 --> 00:09:27.669 security is. Iran Wire, which is the site you started, 130 00:09:28.470 --> 00:09:32.889 is an incredible outlet for these citizen journalists that are 131 00:09:33.029 --> 00:09:37.220 in Iran. So just to give kind of that, you know, 132 00:09:37.250 --> 00:09:40.720 kind of a basic run there of where it is 133 00:09:40.779 --> 00:09:46.940 that you're coming from there, you've experienced this cycle personally. 134 00:09:47.779 --> 00:09:51.559 And now you think that's going to play out on 135 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:56.820 the streets. Have you Have your sources there been able 136 00:09:56.860 --> 00:09:59.860 to still reach out or is it kind of a. 137 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:03.139 a radio silence right now what are what are you 138 00:10:03.179 --> 00:10:03.980 saying it's been. 139 00:10:03.860 --> 00:10:07.500 Very difficult yeah yeah it's been very difficult because sometimes 140 00:10:07.539 --> 00:10:10.820 they narrow the bandwidth of the internet sometimes they shut 141 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:14.179 down the internet so it's been very difficult to get 142 00:10:14.250 --> 00:10:17.389 in touch with us and you know both citizen journalists 143 00:10:17.629 --> 00:10:21.649 and officials as well. Since last year, when former President 144 00:10:21.809 --> 00:10:26.190 Raisi died in a helicopter crash, many Iranian officials have 145 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.820 been in touch with us and leaking information because they 146 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:33.639 think that they are on a sinking ship and they 147 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.200 don't know what's going to happen. And because of that, 148 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:40.570 they are informing us about different things. And one thing 149 00:10:40.610 --> 00:10:46.179 that they're talking about is corruption. So I'm I always 150 00:10:46.220 --> 00:10:50.159 like to say that the Islamic Republic is not either 151 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:57.009 an Islamic or Republic. You remember that episode of Seinfeld 152 00:10:57.049 --> 00:11:01.460 that George told Jerry that, you know, it's my artistic 153 00:11:01.539 --> 00:11:04.899 integrity that I'm worried about. And Jerry goes, What the 154 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:08.299 fuck you're talking about? You're not artistic and you don't 155 00:11:08.340 --> 00:11:10.080 have any integrity. And you have no integrity. That is 156 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:12.159 the Islamic Republic. 157 00:11:12.220 --> 00:11:14.799 Maziar Bahari, by the way, one of the only Iran 158 00:11:15.059 --> 00:11:18.169 experts who will quote Seinfeld fluently. 159 00:11:18.409 --> 00:11:18.730 Exactly. 160 00:11:18.789 --> 00:11:19.409 One of the only ones. 161 00:11:20.470 --> 00:11:22.250 Yes. And days of our lives, yeah. 162 00:11:22.450 --> 00:11:26.870 And days of our lives. So what are they saying now? 163 00:11:26.970 --> 00:11:30.220 Is it that the corruption may be the thing that 164 00:11:30.289 --> 00:11:33.679 finally kind of undermines their authority? Maybe. 165 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:38.460 So let me go through my spiel. So the Islamic 166 00:11:38.500 --> 00:11:43.190 Republic right now, Islamic Republic of Iran is not Islamic 167 00:11:43.230 --> 00:11:48.190 Republic of Iran. It's Islamic Republic of corruption. It's Islamic 168 00:11:48.250 --> 00:11:53.370 Republic of persecution and Islamic Republic of masturbation. We get 169 00:11:53.409 --> 00:11:55.049 to the masturbation in a few minutes. 170 00:11:55.080 --> 00:11:56.100 Wait, what? 171 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:56.480 I tell you. 172 00:11:56.700 --> 00:11:56.980 All right. 173 00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:59.820 So this is a government that's corrupt to

the core. 174 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:02.990 Why do you think that the Israelis managed to know 175 00:12:03.250 --> 00:12:08.610 how many Revolutionary Guards commanders live in what places, and 176 00:12:08.649 --> 00:12:11.210 they managed to kill 12 of them on the first night? 177 00:12:11.870 --> 00:12:15.980 Because of the fact that Israel has so many spies 178 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:19.460 around Iran, and because of the fact that they know 179 00:12:19.820 --> 00:12:24.539 the coming and going of these Revolutionary Guards commanders, they 180 00:12:24.580 --> 00:12:27.970 know exactly where the bases are, they know everything. 181 00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:29.200 And how? 182 00:12:29.980 --> 00:12:33.669 Because of the spies, because this economy is so bad 183 00:12:34.110 --> 00:12:37.100 that they can hire a spy for $ 5, 000. And, you know, 184 00:12:37.129 --> 00:12:40.779 according to our sources, some of these spies that people 185 00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:46.289 see even in prisons, They're not getting like $ 100, 000 or $ 200, 186 00:12:46.220 --> 00:12:50.500 you know, like Russian spies during the Cold War. They're 187 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:53.649 getting like $ 5, 000 for a bit of information that which 188 00:12:53.690 --> 00:12:57.549 commander lives where. And then the Israelis, they juxtapose all 189 00:12:57.610 --> 00:13:02.169 that information together and they have this whole, which has 190 00:13:02.210 --> 00:13:07.009 helped them to do that. And that corruption is existing 191 00:13:07.450 --> 00:13:11.309 every aspect of this government and society. It's an Islamic 192 00:13:11.350 --> 00:13:17.559 republic of persecution. All it knows, in the absence of 193 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:21.620 any real governing of the country in the absence of 194 00:13:21.700 --> 00:13:26.090 providing people with electricity, in the absence of providing people 195 00:13:26.129 --> 00:13:30.169 with employment. All they can do is that imprison people, 196 00:13:30.690 --> 00:13:36.230 torture people, arresting people because of their hijab, etc. So 197 00:13:36.250 --> 00:13:39.320 they're not really interested. They have given up governing the 198 00:13:39.379 --> 00:13:44.080 country maybe since 2019, since the protests in 2019. And 199 00:13:44.179 --> 00:13:46.000 persecution is what they're doing. 200 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:50.279 Those were after the death of Masa Amini? Is that 201 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:51.460 the ones in 2019? 202 00:13:51.460 --> 00:13:55.370 Before the death of Masa Amini. This is even before that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 203 00:13:55.409 --> 00:13:58.070 Before the death of Masa Amini, when we had three 204 00:13:58.110 --> 00:14:02.169 days of total internet shutdown, and they killed almost 2,000 people. 205 00:14:02.549 --> 00:14:05.049 And then, of course, during the time of Masa Amini, 206 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:10.860 there were others. And then, it's the Islamic Republic of masturbation. Why? 207 00:14:11.340 -->

00:14:16.350 Because all they do is that they're just keeping themselves 208 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:21.149 happy with propaganda. All they do is that through these 209 00:14:21.250 --> 00:14:25.929 forced confessions, through this propaganda, like right now they have 210 00:14:25.970 --> 00:14:30.080 these rallies in Tehran for the victory of Iran in 211 00:14:30.100 --> 00:14:33.320 this war. You know what victory you should be embarrassed about. 212 00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:37.480 It's really like, you know, when you think about the 213 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:42.360 Islamic Republic's leaders, I would be embarrassed if I were 214 00:14:42.379 --> 00:14:45.620 them because they're not even good at being evil. 215 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:49.330 Incompetent at being evil. 216 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:51.399 At incompetence at being evil. 217 00:14:51.830 --> 00:15:00.809 Hey, everybody. I know y'all are sweating out our latest episode. 218 00:15:00.809 --> 00:15:04.159 110 degree heat wave. But you know what doesn't belong 219 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:07.320 in your summer plans? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. 220 00:15:07.539 --> 00:15:11.440 Your wireless bill. You plan beach trips, barbecues, three-day weekends. 221 00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:14.110 Wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back, which, 222 00:15:14.129 --> 00:15:16.990 by the way, mine, I'm not even going to get 223 00:15:17.009 --> 00:15:20.009 into it. I have to pay with, like, cash in 224 00:15:20.029 --> 00:15:22.509 a paper bag that I have to drop off. That's 225 00:15:22.549 --> 00:15:24.409 the whole thing. But with Mint Mobile, you can get 226 00:15:24.429 --> 00:15:26.529 the coverage and speed you're used to, but for way 227 00:15:26.549 --> 00:15:29.740 less money. All plans come with high-speed data, unlimited talk 228 00:15:29.779 --> 00:15:33.299 and text, delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You 229 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.330 probably didn't know that. Now you do. Use your own 230 00:15:36.429 --> 00:15:39.490 phone with any Mint Mobile plan. Bring your phone number 231 00:15:39.549 --> 00:15:43.429 along with all your existing contacts. Ditch the overpriced wireless. 232 00:15:44.169 --> 00:15:46.629 Get three months of unlimited service from Mint Mobile for 233 00:15:46.629 --> 00:15:52.179 15 bucks a month. What the? Dang. This year, skip 234 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:54.879 breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new 235 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:58.610 customer offer and your three-month unlimited wireless plan for just 236 00:15:58.610 --> 00:16:05.159 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash TWS. That's mintmobile.com 237 00:16:05.220 --> 00:16:12.820 slash TWS. Upfront payment of $ 45 required, equivalent to, you know, 238 00:16:12.820 --> 00:16:15.450 $ 15 a month. Limited time, new customer offer for first 239 00:16:15.490 --> 00:16:20.529 three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on 240 00:16:20.570 --> 00:16:24.309

the unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile 241 00:16:24.330 --> 00:16:24.950 for details. 242 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.299 And on the other hand, you have the Israelis who 243 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:38.029 know exactly what they're doing, who have managed to, you know, 244 00:16:38.110 --> 00:16:43.629 destroy Hezbollah to a certain extent, Hamas to a certain extent, Iran's, 245 00:16:44.090 --> 00:16:47.289 the flights and, you know, the airplanes are, and, you know, 246 00:16:47.309 --> 00:16:51.710 they come and go as much as they want. In 2012, 247 00:16:51.710 --> 00:16:53.370 let me tell you a story. You would be interested 248 00:16:53.409 --> 00:16:53.970 in this story. 249 00:16:54.389 --> 00:16:54.570 Yeah. 250 00:16:54.629 --> 00:17:00.799 In 2012, So five Iranian terrorists, they went to Bangkok, 251 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:04.940 Thailand to kill Ehud Barak, who was a minister at 252 00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:06.710 the time and who was going to visit Thailand. 253 00:17:06.769 --> 00:17:08.069 Minister of Israel, right. 254 00:17:08.250 --> 00:17:10.329 He was not prime minister. He was minister, I think, 255 00:17:10.369 --> 00:17:14.950 foreign affairs at the time. So he went to Bangkok. Iranians, 256 00:17:14.990 --> 00:17:19.079 they sent five agents to kill Ehud Barak. Three of 257 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:23.599 them hang out with hookers the night before. There is 258 00:17:23.630 --> 00:17:25.880 a picture of them in Pattaya, which is a beach 259 00:17:25.940 --> 00:17:30.000 just south of Bangkok. On the day of bombing, the 260 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:32.880 bomb that they were supposed to have for Ehud Barak, 261 00:17:33.619 --> 00:17:37.339 it blew up in the apartment building that they were, 262 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:41.519 which was a few blocks from Iran's cultural center in Bangkok. 263 00:17:42.569 --> 00:17:46.009 The guys came out. People called the police. They hailed 264 00:17:46.029 --> 00:17:49.089 the taxi. The taxi didn't stop. They threw a hand grenade. 265 00:17:49.490 --> 00:17:51.849 And the hand grenade bounced back. And one of them 266 00:17:51.890 --> 00:17:55.670 lost his leg. This is the type of inefficiency of 267 00:17:55.910 --> 00:18:00.390 evil you're talking about. You know, like Hannah Arendt talked 268 00:18:00.450 --> 00:18:01.759 about the banality of evil. 269 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:05.740 This is like the inefficiency, ineptitude of evil. The inefficiency 270 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:09.019 and incompetence. But let me ask you, Mazhar, so you 271 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:12.839 talked about the difficulty of getting information now out of 272 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:17.039 Iran and into these other things. What about information getting 273 00:18:17.299 --> 00:18:23.000 into Iran and when the Supreme Leader and whoever else 274 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.259 it is in the Ministry of Propaganda who are putting 275 00:18:26.380 --> 00:18:29.180 out the idea that this is a great victory, I 276 00:18:29.339 --> 00:18:33.539 think they put out that they had completely destroyed the 277 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:38.779 American base in Qatar. The people obviously are quite skeptical 278 00:18:38.819 --> 00:18:42.660 of all that, but is there an ability for them? Look, 279 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:44.940 it's hard enough for us to get the information. We 280 00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:47.720 don't know what happened to those nuclear sites. We don't 281 00:18:47.779 --> 00:18:50.970 know what our bombs did. It's hard enough for so-called 282 00:18:51.210 --> 00:18:55.849 open information societies to understand the realities on the ground 283 00:18:56.289 --> 00:19:03.099 within Iran. How much is their propaganda dismissed and, and 284 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.220 with skepticism, how effective is it? I mean, let, let, let, 285 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:09.740 And when we talk about that, too, we'll roll back. 286 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:13.119 Iran is not a monolith by any stretch. It's similar 287 00:19:13.140 --> 00:19:15.640 to many countries. You sort of look at it as 288 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:20.460 red and blue. There's this divide there. But what is 289 00:19:20.500 --> 00:19:21.940 the information that they're getting? 290 00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:28.140 So Iranians, when the Internet works normally, like when there 291 00:19:28.180 --> 00:19:32.980 is a connection between the Iranians and international World Wide Web, 292 00:19:33.769 --> 00:19:36.309 They can get their information. There are many sites that 293 00:19:36.369 --> 00:19:41.420 are blocked, including IranWire.com, but people use VPNs and people 294 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:47.769 use filter busters. And funnily enough, Iranian government uses Chinese 295 00:19:48.329 --> 00:19:52.759 firewalls in order to stop... the internet. And Iranians use 296 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.259 Chinese filter busters developed by Chinese, some of them. So 297 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:59.420 they use VPNs. They get the information. There are satellite 298 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:03.579 channels that are beamed into Iran that people look at. 299 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:08.480 And also because the Iranian government cannot At the moment, 300 00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:11.960 because of that inefficiency that we talked about, they cannot 301 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:18.369 shut down the internet totally. There are times that people 302 00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:21.890 can get the information. So we are using WhatsApp, for example. 303 00:20:21.930 --> 00:20:25.029 We have a channel on WhatsApp, on Telegram. So people 304 00:20:25.109 --> 00:20:29.009 can get the information as much as they want. But yesterday, 305 00:20:29.789 --> 00:20:34.789 the Iranian government sent an SMS, a text to many Iranians, 306 00:20:34.890 --> 00:20:39.650 millions of Iranians around the country saying that you should 307 00:20:39.750 --> 00:20:46.619 not like or post on any Zionist or Zionist-friendly sites 308

00:20:47.019 --> 00:20:49.480 or platforms. And that's open to interpretation. 309 00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:51.099 That's going to be all of them. I mean, we 310 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:51.460 do control. 311 00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:55.140 That's open to interpretation because, you know, anyone can be 312 00:20:55.180 --> 00:21:01.029 a Zionist. And for even most of the Iranian government 313 00:21:01.549 --> 00:21:04.650 officials that I've met, they don't know what the Zionism means. 314 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:07.819 They all think that Zion was a person and these 315 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:10.980 people like, you know, Marxists, they support Zion. Who is 316 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:13.759 this Zion that they're talking about? This is something that 317 00:21:13.819 --> 00:21:18.440 I heard from a senior government official that, damn, that's 318 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:22.539 Zion who started Zionism. You know, this is a level up. 319 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.890 But at the same time, you have this society that 320 00:21:27.809 --> 00:21:31.450 is educated. They are. 321 00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:40.349 They're secular, mostly. They hate this government, but unfortunately, there 322 00:21:40.410 --> 00:21:45.630 is no alternative. When I hear about regime change in Iran, 323 00:21:46.049 --> 00:21:51.299 like from different senators, congresspeople, different- The president. 324 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:52.799 Even Netanyahu. 325 00:21:52.900 --> 00:21:55.839 Netanyahu talked about regime change. 326 00:21:55.859 --> 00:21:57.380 It's got to happen. Yeah. 327 00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:02.069 Regime change to what? You know, the Iranian opposition has 328 00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:06.130 been its own worst enemy for the past few years. 329 00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:11.779 When was it? Almost three years ago after the Mahsa 330 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:15.420 Amin's death and during the Women Live Freedom movement, a 331 00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:20.009 few of these opposition figures, they got together in Georgetown 332 00:22:20.069 --> 00:22:24.880 University and and they had this manifesto, and people were 333 00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:28.259 really looking forward to something happening. I mean, there were 334 00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:35.849 actors and actresses and football players, soccer players, and people 335 00:22:35.890 --> 00:22:38.230 thought that they might be able to do something. They 336 00:22:38.250 --> 00:22:42.210 could not even hold that group together for more than 337 00:22:42.309 --> 00:22:47.190 a month or so. So the Iranian opposition really does 338 00:22:47.210 --> 00:22:52.029 not exist. So imagine if the regime collapses tomorrow, There 339 00:22:52.089 --> 00:22:56.069 is no Mandela or Václav Havel who's going to take 340 00:22:56.109 --> 00:22:59.380 care of the country. People compare Iran to the situation 341 00:22:59.410 --> 00:23:04.019 in South Africa that bring to the end of the apartheid. 342 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:08.220 But Mandela was not himself. There are some interesting figures 343 00:23:08.299 --> 00:23:10.500 in the Iranian opposition, but they don't have a real 344 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:15.769 political party behind them. Mandela had people like Oliver Tambo. 345 00:23:16.309 --> 00:23:24.390 Chris Haney, Mbeke, the current president, Cyril Ramaphosa, who managed to, 346 00:23:24.410 --> 00:23:28.119 you know, negotiations, the transition and all that. And also 347 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:32.799 on top of that, ANC, the African National Congress that 348 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:37.670 came to power after apartheid, was a political party with 349 00:23:37.910 --> 00:23:43.289 decades of history. Many of these opposition figures outside of Iran, 350 00:23:43.670 --> 00:23:47.970 they have not managed to bring even a small group 351 00:23:48.069 --> 00:23:51.269 of people together in an organized way to be able 352 00:23:51.369 --> 00:23:55.289 to talk to different governments. They don't talk about, they 353 00:23:55.309 --> 00:23:58.250 don't have any plans for transition. People say that, yes, 354 00:23:58.369 --> 00:24:01.029 we will be in charge of the transition, but they 355 00:24:01.069 --> 00:24:06.170 have no idea about transition, transitional justice, and That means 356 00:24:06.269 --> 00:24:09.589 that for the majority of Iranians who are secular, who 357 00:24:09.650 --> 00:24:13.220 hate this government, and they want change, to look at 358 00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:19.690 the neighborhood around them, Iraq, Libya, Syria, and those are 359 00:24:19.730 --> 00:24:23.150 not great role models to emulate. So because of that, 360 00:24:23.410 --> 00:24:25.490 we are in a situation where we are, that we 361 00:24:25.549 --> 00:24:32.049 have this millions of Iranians who are sophisticated, educated, open-minded, 362 00:24:32.369 --> 00:24:36.940 they're taken hostage by this group of thugs who are organized, 363 00:24:36.980 --> 00:24:40.000 who have power, who have money, et cetera. So when 364 00:24:40.059 --> 00:24:43.599 I heard the president yesterday saying these are the two 365 00:24:43.660 --> 00:24:48.259 countries that don't know what the fuck they're doing. I 366 00:24:48.579 --> 00:24:53.660 think that was the exact emotion that millions of Iranians 367 00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:57.839 and most probably millions of Israelis could express as well. 368 00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:00.579 Right. I want to tell you, there's quite a few 369 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:02.099 Americans who feel that way right. 370 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:04.079 Now about what we're doing. 371 00:25:04.299 --> 00:25:06.920 So it's kind of a universal statement. I think it's 372 00:25:06.940 --> 00:25:09.579 why it's become such a meme. But I think also 373 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:13.319 for people to understand, you know, Iran is really split. 374 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:19.450 The power base for this current, you know, the Ayatollah 375 00:25:19.750 --> 00:25:24.970 is more the rural

areas, more religious, more extreme. There 376 00:25:25.049 --> 00:25:29.230 is that dichotomy of the more educated people in the 377 00:25:29.299 --> 00:25:32.400 cities and they have a more liberal. But, you know, 378 00:25:32.579 --> 00:25:35.900 relate this to when you and I were in Jordan, 379 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:39.440 it was in the middle of sort of that Arab 380 00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:42.809 Spring period. That feeling of there was a real sense 381 00:25:43.069 --> 00:25:48.990 of hope and possibility of what a more democratic ideal 382 00:25:49.069 --> 00:25:52.890 might be, generally one that we were kind of projecting 383 00:25:53.589 --> 00:25:57.609 onto them. And I think Egypt presents a really interesting 384 00:25:58.329 --> 00:26:02.730 example because that was a ground up revolution. First, there 385 00:26:02.769 --> 00:26:05.589 was Mubarak, who was sort of the authoritarian dictator who 386 00:26:05.609 --> 00:26:10.410 had been there for, you know, for all those many years. 387 00:26:10.829 --> 00:26:13.650 The people on the street during the Arab Spring rose 388 00:26:13.730 --> 00:26:16.789 up and overthrew Mubarak, and they were going to institute 389 00:26:16.930 --> 00:26:20.390 a democratic election. And what everybody began to realize is, oh, 390 00:26:20.430 --> 00:26:25.309 the only people that are organized enough, because civic institutions 391 00:26:25.369 --> 00:26:29.529 had degraded for so long over that time, was Muslim Brotherhood. 392 00:26:29.569 --> 00:26:32.410 They were the only ones that had any. So Morsi, 393 00:26:32.970 --> 00:26:36.210 through Muslim Brotherhood, becomes the leader of Egypt. They become 394 00:26:36.269 --> 00:26:41.319 dissatisfied with Morsi's rule. The streets rise up again. This 395 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:46.220 takes a year. And who takes over? Sisi, another autocrat, 396 00:26:46.259 --> 00:26:49.920 basically Mubarak again. And now he's very popular. I think 397 00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:55.549 the point that you made is really interesting. If you 398 00:26:55.569 --> 00:26:57.710 have an authoritarian regime over a period of time, it 399 00:26:57.769 --> 00:27:02.490 degrades your civic institutions. So when you talk about who's next, 400 00:27:03.410 --> 00:27:07.549 it's maybe another Ayatollah. Maybe it's somebody from Quds Force. 401 00:27:07.630 --> 00:27:11.170 Maybe it's somebody from Revolutionary Guard, but it is not 402 00:27:11.329 --> 00:27:19.430 probably going to be some democratically-minded leader who's going to 403 00:27:19.509 --> 00:27:22.170 empower the people. Would that be fair to say? 404 00:27:23.130 --> 00:27:28.339 Well, let's go back to the premise that the country 405 00:27:28.380 --> 00:27:31.579 is divided between rural and urban area and educated and not. 406 00:27:31.700 --> 00:27:35.230 I think that was maybe the old paradigm. At the moment, 407 00:27:35.329 --> 00:27:39.890 we can say that Iran right now is very similar 408 00:27:39.950 -->

00:27:47.309 to Soviet Union in the 1980s. So you have many 409 00:27:47.369 --> 00:27:51.690 people who support the regime as they did in Soviet Union. 410 00:27:52.109 --> 00:27:55.990 You have millions of people who are getting paid by 411 00:27:56.339 --> 00:28:02.079 the intelligence services like you had in Soviet Union. They 412 00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:06.819 are supporting an ideology, but at the same time, they 413 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:09.839 are getting paid by the system. So they have material 414 00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:12.480 interest in the existence of the system. Right. 415 00:28:12.809 --> 00:28:16.210 So the government is supporting a lot of them. 416 00:28:16.710 --> 00:28:21.829 A lot of them. So in 1985, if you ask 417 00:28:21.930 --> 00:28:26.670 a KGB agent, do you support the Soviet Union because 418 00:28:26.789 --> 00:28:30.470 of the communist ideals and Marxist ideals or just because 419 00:28:30.490 --> 00:28:34.259 you're getting paid? you know, he most probably would say 420 00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:36.609 yes because of the ideals, but he was supporting because 421 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:40.490 he was getting paid and because he had seen 70 422 00:28:40.490 --> 00:28:44.210 years of corruption and dictatorship in his country. And you 423 00:28:44.230 --> 00:28:46.289 know that, you know, communism did not work. So at 424 00:28:46.309 --> 00:28:50.849 the moment, many people who support the government, I would 425 00:28:50.869 --> 00:28:54.009 say most people who support the government, they have some 426 00:28:54.089 --> 00:28:57.730 material interests. It can be because they are getting paid 427 00:28:57.809 --> 00:29:02.230 by Imam Khomeini's charity foundation that is supporting up to 428 00:29:02.230 --> 00:29:06.880 10 million people, maybe because they are getting paid by 429 00:29:06.900 --> 00:29:13.000 different foundations because of the Revolutionary Guards. And also, as 430 00:29:13.059 --> 00:29:16.019 you know, Revolutionary Guards is not only an army. The 431 00:29:16.059 --> 00:29:22.890 Revolutionary Guards is one of the biggest industrial bodies in Iran. 432 00:29:23.069 --> 00:29:26.230 It has universities. It has hospitals. So many people are 433 00:29:26.269 --> 00:29:30.319 getting paid by the Revolutionary Guards and support it. Going 434 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.640 back to the other question that you have in terms 435 00:29:32.779 --> 00:29:35.589 of the organized opposition. 436 00:29:36.069 --> 00:29:36.309 Right. 437 00:29:36.430 --> 00:29:39.390 So there is no organized opposition outside of the government. 438 00:29:40.099 --> 00:29:43.380 At the moment, I would say that the government is 439 00:29:43.460 --> 00:29:49.069 fractured into different parts. Some of them are hardcore supporters 440 00:29:49.230 --> 00:29:55.089 of Ayatollah Khamenei because they either believe in him as 441 00:29:55.230 --> 00:30:03.460 this island of purity in this sea of corruption and dirt, 442 00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:09.140 and someone who, as they say, is basically the backbone 443 00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:15.250 of the revolution, I would say there are many of them. 444 00:30:15.309 --> 00:30:17.349 There would be maybe four or five million of them 445 00:30:17.769 --> 00:30:21.990 who vote for the most hardline candidates during the presidential 446 00:30:22.009 --> 00:30:26.569 elections usually. But there are many other people who do 447 00:30:26.630 --> 00:30:31.259 not believe in the government. They believe in, but they 448 00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:34.160 still work for the government. And many of them are 449 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:38.380 good bureaucrats. Who would be good bureaucrats for a good government? 450 00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:41.119 No matter what. Yes, for a good government. 451 00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:43.079 Iran's deep state. 452 00:30:43.099 --> 00:30:48.569 Some diplomats, exactly. Some diplomats that we have, some accountants, bookkeepers, 453 00:30:48.609 --> 00:30:52.509 et cetera. So they don't have any kind of ideological power. 454 00:30:53.029 --> 00:30:57.789 belonging to the system. So the best case scenario would 455 00:30:57.910 --> 00:31:02.730 be to have a leader who would realize that Iran 456 00:31:02.750 --> 00:31:10.910 needs stability. And most people really don't care about many 457 00:31:10.970 --> 00:31:16.289 of the dictatorial aspects of the regime. They want stability 458 00:31:16.369 --> 00:31:19.109 in life. And when Trump says, you know, they don't 459 00:31:19.130 --> 00:31:21.509 know what the fuck they're doing, I can understand his 460 00:31:21.529 --> 00:31:24.750 frustration because as a businessman, he looks at Iran and 461 00:31:24.789 --> 00:31:28.779 he says, you guys have gas, you have oil, you 462 00:31:28.819 --> 00:31:32.819 have an amazing country. I hang out with these Iranian 463 00:31:32.900 --> 00:31:36.170 property owners in New York and I know how brilliant 464 00:31:36.190 --> 00:31:41.180 they are. Why do you keep on chanting these ideological 465 00:31:41.259 --> 00:31:45.829 slogans and just don't make money? Just be quiet and 466 00:31:45.849 --> 00:31:47.880 make money, like the rest of the Middle East, like 467 00:31:48.789 --> 00:31:52.109 people in UAE, people in Saudi Arabia, people in many 468 00:31:52.170 --> 00:31:56.150 other countries. And because of that, I think the best 469 00:31:56.170 --> 00:32:01.069 case scenario would be to have a leader who is nationalist, 470 00:32:02.059 --> 00:32:06.089 who can bring different groups together, who can give people 471 00:32:06.210 --> 00:32:11.630 social freedom, who can tolerate some level of democracy and 472 00:32:11.690 --> 00:32:15.430 elections in Iran, and then Iranians would rally around him, 473 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:18.819 and someone who has a plan. Because Iranians, they're smart 474 00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:20.940 enough to know that if someone doesn't have a plan, 475 00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:23.799

they're not going to support that person. Right. 476 00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:31.109 Someone like Mohammad Mosaddegh that we overthrew in 1953. Maybe 477 00:32:31.130 --> 00:32:31.809 somebody like that. 478 00:32:31.829 --> 00:32:35.380 Yeah, Mohamed Mossadegh. Right. Someone like him. Yeah, because he 479 00:32:35.420 --> 00:32:37.920 basically came through the system as well. And, you know, here, 480 00:32:38.339 --> 00:32:40.160 let's make an open parenthesis because. 481 00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:42.359 Well, we couldn't allow it because we thought he was 482 00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:44.380 a communist. So that- No, exactly. 483 00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:48.380 But the thing about Mossadegh as well is that people 484 00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:51.039 say here that, you know, not here, like in the US, 485 00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:53.950 I've seen a lot of my leftist friends and liberals 486 00:32:53.970 --> 00:32:58.230 say that he was democratically elected. Mossadegh was not democratically elected. 487 00:32:58.390 --> 00:33:02.279 Mossadegh became prime minister- like many other prime ministers before 488 00:33:02.299 --> 00:33:04.740 him and after him. The Shah introduced him to the 489 00:33:04.779 --> 00:33:10.119 parliament and the parliament voted for him as the prime minister. 490 00:33:10.700 --> 00:33:18.609 Mossadegh's main mistake, and I think that many other Iranian 491 00:33:18.650 --> 00:33:22.049 politicians and many politicians in different places, main mistake was 492 00:33:22.170 --> 00:33:29.589 to make the Americans afraid of the Soviets so much that, 493 00:33:29.609 --> 00:33:32.269 you know, they couldn't trust him anymore. And they said that, 494 00:33:32.289 --> 00:33:35.369 you know, okay, we have to bring our own strongman 495 00:33:35.430 --> 00:33:39.470 because Mozart was saying that, was saying, was telling Truman 496 00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:43.819 and then, you know, Churchill and Attlee at the time said, 497 00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:46.660 you know, if you don't support me, the Soviets are 498 00:33:46.700 --> 00:33:49.079 going to take over. The communists are going to take over. 499 00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:52.759 And then, you know, the CIA was a young organization 500 00:33:52.819 --> 00:33:55.349 at that time. And, you know, when Eisenhower came to 501 00:33:55.410 --> 00:33:58.339 power with Alan Dulles and, you know, they said that, well, 502 00:33:58.500 --> 00:34:01.440 if you're so weak that you cannot withstand the Soviets, 503 00:34:01.700 --> 00:34:03.680 then we can have our own people. We can have 504 00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:06.720 the strong military. So that's why, you know, the coup happened. 505 00:34:07.109 --> 00:34:10.449 And he also did, you know, British Petroleum and the 506 00:34:10.489 --> 00:34:14.250 fact that they couldn't trust that Mossadegh would do what 507 00:34:14.289 --> 00:34:16.489 they wanted him to do for British Petroleum. 508 00:34:16.570 --> 00:34:20.010 Yeah. So I think it's very important to understand, you know, 509 00:34:20.590 --> 00:34:24.280 understand the other people's narrative. I think Mossadegh's main problem 510 00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:28.340 was that he did not understand the American Cold War 511 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:32.559 narrative at the time. He did not understand the level 512 00:34:32.659 --> 00:34:34.320 of fear in the US. 513 00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:37.059 That that was viewed as an existential threat in the 514 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:38.219 United States, right? 515 00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:41.920 Exactly. And the Americans at that time, they didn't care 516 00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:44.659 about the narrative in Iran. And they thought, you know, 517 00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:48.119 with the coup, they can bring, you know, stability and 518 00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:49.420 they could, you know, break the ally. 519 00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:50.739 The Shah will be our guy. 520 00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:54.570 Exactly. And 25 years later, it backfired. Then there was 521 00:34:54.610 --> 00:34:57.030 a revolution in Iran. At the moment, I think that's 522 00:34:57.050 --> 00:35:00.050 happening as well. That, you know, people... don't understand each 523 00:35:00.110 --> 00:35:04.070 other's narrative. And there's a lot of misunderstanding and miscommunication. 524 00:35:04.289 --> 00:35:06.630 So let's talk about narrative because you bring up an 525 00:35:06.809 --> 00:35:09.510 excellent point because so much of this is about narrative. 526 00:35:09.869 --> 00:35:11.829 And I do have a couple of questions on that. 527 00:35:12.730 --> 00:35:13.090 One is. 528 00:35:13.309 --> 00:35:15.380 And I'm sorry for drinking so much water. It's so 529 00:35:15.429 --> 00:35:18.559 hot here that I have to hydrate myself. 530 00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:21.179 Maziar, I can tell. First of all, it's very upsetting 531 00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:24.039 to me how good you look. I'm already upset about that. 532 00:35:24.380 --> 00:35:29.179 because over the years eroded. 533 00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:33.869 My God, no, you look like a young George Clooney. 534 00:35:34.929 --> 00:35:40.269 Thank you. That's very kind of you, sir. By the way, 535 00:35:40.369 --> 00:35:43.090 when we were making Rosewater, which is a film about 536 00:35:43.130 --> 00:35:47.480 Maziar's experiences in captivity in Iran, we had to get 537 00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:49.820 Gael Garcia Bernal to do it because there was no 538 00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:53.409 one else handsome enough to play a young Maziar Bahari. 539 00:35:53.449 --> 00:35:57.030 It just wasn't... And unfortunately, Peter Sellers was dead. So 540 00:35:57.269 --> 00:35:59.550 in the absence of Peter Sellers, we had to get. 541 00:35:59.610 --> 00:36:03.269 We could have gone with someone handsome enough or witty enough. 542 00:36:03.670 --> 00:36:05.489 And we went with Gael, who. 543 00:36:05.789 --> 00:36:06.789 Who did a very good job. 544 00:36:07.050 --> 00:36:10.710 Who did a very good job.

Bridged the gap. Talking 545 00:36:10.750 --> 00:36:14.849 about narrative. So... And it's the two narratives. 546 00:36:15.250 --> 00:36:16.380 One, in Iran. So.... 547 00:36:18.369 --> 00:36:23.440 The revolution, and people know that there's a distinction between Khomeini, 548 00:36:23.719 --> 00:36:27.320 who was the leader in absentia, and then when the 549 00:36:27.619 --> 00:36:31.219 Islamic revolution came to power, he took over, and then 550 00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:38.260 when he passed, Khamenei. Why do they, if this nuclear 551 00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:43.469 program is the sole reason that is preventing them from 552 00:36:43.489 --> 00:36:46.610 the kind of progress that you're seeing in some of 553 00:36:46.650 --> 00:36:52.110 these other nations, Why do they feel like that's the 554 00:36:52.219 --> 00:36:57.340 key to holding on to their power? Is it still 555 00:36:57.380 --> 00:37:04.880 the idea of creating a more Shia-dominated power source from 556 00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:14.150 Syria through Iran? I can't wrap my mind around why 557 00:37:14.210 --> 00:37:18.150 they do allow themselves to be so at a remove. 558 00:37:18.639 --> 00:37:22.320 when they do have so much to offer, as you say, 559 00:37:23.309 --> 00:37:28.190 in terms of brain power, in terms of everything, they've 560 00:37:28.230 --> 00:37:30.809 kind of, you know, it seems like cut off their 561 00:37:30.849 --> 00:37:33.210 own nose to spite their face in some regard. 562 00:37:34.090 --> 00:37:36.099 No, it's a very good question. And I think it 563 00:37:36.260 --> 00:37:39.760 goes back to one of the main problems with this 564 00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:44.380 government that it has not managed to define itself. The 565 00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:50.099 fact that... 40 years after the revolution, 46 years after 566 00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:55.460 the revolution, they're still calling themselves a revolutionary government. So 567 00:37:55.980 --> 00:38:03.460 in 1979, the revolution happened because of mainly two reasons. Iranians, 568 00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:07.559 they wanted freedom. They wanted to defeat tyranny. 569 00:38:07.940 --> 00:38:10.840 The Shah was a brutal force in Iran. People might 570 00:38:10.929 --> 00:38:11.449 forget that. 571 00:38:11.980 --> 00:38:15.119 The Shah was a brutal force, and also the Iranians, 572 00:38:15.179 --> 00:38:20.920 they started their movement for freedom in 1906, one year 573 00:38:21.019 --> 00:38:25.099 after the original Russian Revolution, and they had the Constitutional Revolution, 574 00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:28.840 and Iran had the first parliament in Asia. So people 575 00:38:29.019 --> 00:38:33.139 started to fight for freedom in 1906. Then, you know, 576 00:38:33.260 --> 00:38:38.440 that movement was defeated, the Shah's father came to power, 577 00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:41.920 and there were many movements the 1940s, and as you said, 578 00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:45.880 the coup happened in the early 1950s. So many

Iranians, 579 00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:50.090 they thought that they could use Khomeini in order to 580 00:38:50.150 --> 00:38:53.369 defeat the Shah, and then he would just go home, 581 00:38:53.610 --> 00:38:55.929 and then they could come to power. And at the 582 00:38:56.010 --> 00:39:01.420 same time, the Shia clerics, they had a lot of power. 583 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:07.860 In 1962, the Shah had the White Revolution initiated, And, 584 00:39:07.940 --> 00:39:12.119 you know, that undermined the power of the clergy in Iran. 585 00:39:12.460 --> 00:39:15.480 So the clergy, they really developed the. 586 00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:18.389 What was the White Revolution? Go back to that, because 587 00:39:18.730 --> 00:39:20.050 I'm not familiar. Oh, yeah. 588 00:39:20.090 --> 00:39:24.570 So the White Revolution had two main tenets. One was 589 00:39:24.650 --> 00:39:28.309 that the big lands had to be taken away from 590 00:39:28.369 --> 00:39:32.090 landowners and divided internationally. farmers because the Shah thought that 591 00:39:32.590 --> 00:39:35.489 field oil system that existed in Iran at the time 592 00:39:35.980 --> 00:39:41.079 was a main obstacle to the progress of Iran. And 593 00:39:41.139 --> 00:39:46.199 he was inspired by Kennedy, actually. At that time, Kennedy 594 00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:49.239 was in power, so there was a lot of conversation 595 00:39:49.300 --> 00:39:52.340 between the Kennedy administration and Iran. And the second tenet 596 00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:57.739 was giving women the right to vote. So when Khomeini 597 00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:02.280 started his movement in 1962, he wrote a letter to 598 00:40:02.300 --> 00:40:06.360 the Shah saying that, you know, your royal majesty, he 599 00:40:06.659 --> 00:40:11.300 used the word royal majesty, giving women the vote is 600 00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:15.679 going to drive them to prostitution. You know, like, you know, okay, 601 00:40:15.860 --> 00:40:17.900 women get a vote and then they go to a 602 00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:22.119 brothel immediately, you know, just like that. It's going to, 603 00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:26.019 this letter is available online, you know. And then, so 604 00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:29.460 the white revolution. So after the white revolution, Khomeini, of course, 605 00:40:29.500 --> 00:40:32.739 had his original uprising. He was sent into exile, many 606 00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:38.179 of his. Supporters were killed and put in jail, including 607 00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:41.360 the current Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, who was, I think, 608 00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:45.579 around 23, 24 at the time. He was born in 1939. 609 00:40:45.579 --> 00:40:51.179 So the clergy, they wanted to take power. And so 610 00:40:51.389 --> 00:40:54.789 in 1979, these two forces, the nationalist forces and the 611 00:40:54.809 --> 00:40:58.909 Islamic forces, they managed to topple the Shah. But again, 612 00:40:59.050 --> 00:41:02.820 as you said about Egypt, the nationalist, the Islamic forces, 613 00:41:03.380 --> 00:41:08.539 they were more organized. Khomeini had a network of people 614 00:41:08.659 --> 00:41:11.980 in mosques around the country. He was a very good communicator. 615 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.800 He knew how to use the cassette tapes. He was 616 00:41:14.860 --> 00:41:19.000 sending his messages to Iran in cassette tapes. He was 617 00:41:19.139 --> 00:41:23.710 using photocopies of his messages. So that was distributed all 618 00:41:23.750 --> 00:41:26.590 around Iran. So when the revolution happened in February 1979, 619 00:41:26.590 --> 00:41:33.949 Khomeini managed to get rid of all the Other groups, 620 00:41:34.570 --> 00:41:39.360 one by one, put people in jail, execute them, and 621 00:41:39.389 --> 00:41:42.880 then be the absolute ruler of Iran. 622 00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:51.929 Hey, what do you got there, business? You realize your 623 00:41:51.969 --> 00:41:55.050 business needed to hire someone? And you needed them yesterday? Well, 624 00:41:55.070 --> 00:41:56.230 how are you going to find them? How are you 625 00:41:56.250 --> 00:41:58.809 going to find amazing candidates fast? What, are you going 626 00:41:58.829 --> 00:42:01.570 to walk outside? Ask people directly? 627 00:42:01.730 --> 00:42:01.949 Bah! 628 00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.320 Just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts 629 00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:09.000 seen on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored jobs help you 630 00:42:09.059 --> 00:42:14.000 stand out and hire fast. Sponsored jobs. Your post jumps 631 00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:17.659 to the top of the page for your relevant candidates 632 00:42:17.869 --> 00:42:20.710 so you can reach the people you want faster. What 633 00:42:20.730 --> 00:42:22.030 do you want to be on the bottom of the page? 634 00:42:22.289 --> 00:42:25.090 Come on. You're the boss. This is your business. 635 00:42:25.650 --> 00:42:26.989 Get yourself to the top of the page. 636 00:42:27.030 --> 00:42:31.630 For God's sakes. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted 637 00:42:31.650 --> 00:42:37.920 directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than the non-sponsored jobs. 638 00:42:38.980 --> 00:42:42.800 With Indeed sponsored jobs, there's no monthly subscriptions, no long-term contracts. 639 00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:45.519 You only pay for results. What more do you want 640 00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:49.639 from these people? How fast is Indeed? In the minute 641 00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:54.139 I've been talking to you, and it might feel like longer, 642 00:42:54.139 --> 00:42:56.699 23 hires were made on Indeed, according to Indeed data. 643 00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:01.289 That's worldwide. Joined the 3.5 million employers worldwide. that use 644 00:43:01.349 --> 00:43:04.840 Indeed to hire great talent fast. There's no need to 645 00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:07.480 wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. 646 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:12.019 And listeners of this

show will get a $ 75 sponsored 647 00:43:12.059 --> 00:43:16.260 job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com 648 00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:20.659 slash weekly. Just go to Indeed.com slash weekly right now. 649 00:43:21.460 --> 00:43:23.570 Support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on 650 00:43:23.590 --> 00:43:28.869 this podcast. Indeed.com slash weekly. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring? 651 00:43:29.690 --> 00:43:38.119 Indeed is all you need. Now, do you think Iran now, 652 00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:42.400 if that's the origin story of sort of this new version, 653 00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:49.559 do they define themselves through the Islamic premise? Do they 654 00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:53.780 define themselves through opposition to the great Satan, which would 655 00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:57.679 be America and I'm assuming Israel? Do they define themselves, 656 00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:01.780 you know, through this idea that They are a counterweight 657 00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:08.750 to the majority Sunni population in the region. What's kind 658 00:44:08.789 --> 00:44:14.530 of the defining foundation then that holds the nation together? Yeah. 659 00:44:14.789 --> 00:44:17.289 So I remember that I didn't answer your question about 660 00:44:17.349 --> 00:44:20.570 the nuclear. So I'm going to answer both of them 661 00:44:20.630 --> 00:44:23.460 at the same time. We got so much. Yeah, I know. 662 00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:25.059 I answered both of them at the same time. 663 00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:25.420 Okay. 664 00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.019 So again, like what we are talking about, the opposition 665 00:44:28.099 --> 00:44:31.039 right now, when Khomeini came to power- He had an 666 00:44:31.260 --> 00:44:38.119 ideal of creating Islamic utopia, exporting the revolution, and he 667 00:44:38.179 --> 00:44:41.800 inspired millions of people around the world. There's a guy 668 00:44:42.179 --> 00:44:45.050 who lives in Iran right now who came from Washington. 669 00:44:46.210 --> 00:44:48.909 He killed someone on behalf of the Iranian government, and 670 00:44:48.969 --> 00:44:51.440 he's been living in Iran constantly. for the past 46 years. 671 00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.380 He inspired millions of people around the world. And as 672 00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:58.969 you remember, in the 1970s and the 60s, revolutions were 673 00:44:59.010 --> 00:45:02.849 in vogue. So Khomeini was really a good revolutionary leader. 674 00:45:03.130 --> 00:45:08.989 But that utopia was, you know, was a mirage. It 675 00:45:09.030 --> 00:45:12.230 was a mirage. Islamic Republic, as we said, that, you know, 676 00:45:12.309 --> 00:45:16.619 it's like, you know, George with artistic integrity, that, you know, 677 00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:22.170 that does not exist. So in the absence of being 678 00:45:22.309 --> 00:45:29.449 able to create this Islamic utopia, what Khomeini did and 679 00:45:29.590 --> 00:45:34.340 what his successor Ali Khamenei did since he's been in 680 00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:40.960 power since 1988, since 1989, sorry, he's been They've been 681 00:45:43.260 --> 00:45:48.969 insisting on that revolutionary aspect of the Iranian government, of 682 00:45:49.010 --> 00:45:52.269 the Islamic Republic. And what do you need for a revolution? 683 00:45:52.289 --> 00:45:56.090 You need an enemy. So you have to have enemies. 684 00:45:56.289 --> 00:46:01.119 And Khomeini said it himself that Saddam Hussein's invasion of 685 00:46:01.780 --> 00:46:06.019 Iran in 1980 was a gift to the Islamic Republic. 686 00:46:06.610 --> 00:46:10.670 Because when Saddam Hussein invaded Iran and started the Iran-Iraq 687 00:46:10.710 --> 00:46:15.489 war for eight years, that brought everyone together and they 688 00:46:15.570 --> 00:46:19.090 supported Khomeini. And as a result, people, you know, he 689 00:46:19.150 --> 00:46:23.789 managed to mobilize people. Then Khomeini died in 1989. Ali 690 00:46:23.829 --> 00:46:31.150 Khamenei came to power. And he's been, his catchphrase is doshman, 691 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:36.949 the enemy. And, you know, he's been talking about Doshman. And, 692 00:46:36.989 --> 00:46:40.349 you know, talking about Doshman is like really for him. 693 00:46:40.469 --> 00:46:46.269 It's give him this, you know, it's his character. It's like, 694 00:46:46.309 --> 00:46:49.630 you know, Barry Gibb finding his falsetto. You know, it's 695 00:46:49.710 --> 00:46:51.889 just like that. You know, it's like when you think 696 00:46:51.929 --> 00:46:54.190 about Barry Gibb before, you know. 697 00:46:54.789 --> 00:46:56.550 See, this is the fun of hanging out with Maziar. 698 00:46:56.750 --> 00:46:59.590 No, no, but seriously, like, you know, Saturday Night Fever 699 00:46:59.670 --> 00:47:00.570 before and after. 700 00:47:00.590 --> 00:47:00.670 Sure. 701 00:47:00.889 --> 00:47:03.760 It's like, you know, it's like, When Khamenei talks about. 702 00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:06.460 Once they found that signature sound, man, doshman. 703 00:47:06.579 --> 00:47:07.199 Exactly. 704 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:09.199 Doshman was the staying alive. 705 00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:14.070 You know, because apparently Khamenei smokes opium. And, you know, 706 00:47:14.150 --> 00:47:16.869 people who've known him, they say that every now and 707 00:47:16.889 --> 00:47:19.389 then he likes to smoke a little bit of opium. 708 00:47:19.429 --> 00:47:22.730 He doesn't say doshman. He says doshman, which is a 709 00:47:22.769 --> 00:47:29.230 very much, you know, like an opium-affected sound. So, yeah, 710 00:47:29.250 --> 00:47:32.659 so he has to define a new dushman, a new 711 00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:37.280 enemy for himself every time. So it was Saddam Hussein, 712 00:47:37.300 --> 00:47:40.670 which was a blessing. And then, of course, America, the 713 00:47:40.710 --> 00:47:44.309 great Satan, Israel, the little Satan. And then, you know, 714 00:47:44.369 --> 00:47:50.559 the then I think around 1920. 93,

94, he talked 715 00:47:50.619 --> 00:47:55.429 about the cultural invasion because of the Western cultural invasion, 716 00:47:55.780 --> 00:47:58.719 because of all the velvet revolutions that were happening in 717 00:47:59.789 --> 00:48:03.230 Eastern Europe. He talked about that. So he keeps on 718 00:48:03.269 --> 00:48:07.670 talking about that. And how can you defeat a doshman, 719 00:48:07.929 --> 00:48:13.409 an enemy, you know, through military power? And what is 720 00:48:13.469 --> 00:48:17.710 the most potent military device that you can have? to 721 00:48:17.769 --> 00:48:25.210 defeat and, you know, defeat the enemies. That's the nuclear program. 722 00:48:25.909 --> 00:48:31.369 And they've been trying to do that since, as far 723 00:48:31.429 --> 00:48:36.880 as we know, since the late 1980s, when the the 724 00:48:36.900 --> 00:48:40.940 former Revolutionary Guards commander, and the letter is available, as Khomeini, 725 00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:44.570 after many defeats during the Iran-Iraq war, that we have 726 00:48:44.670 --> 00:48:48.090 to start developing a nuclear program. 727 00:48:48.369 --> 00:48:51.469 Wasn't even the Shah pursuing that, I think, towards the end? 728 00:48:51.510 --> 00:48:59.139 Well, Shah was not pursuing nuclear... Weapon. Weapon? We don't 729 00:48:59.179 --> 00:49:01.739 know yet. We don't know. The funny thing about the 730 00:49:01.780 --> 00:49:06.489 Shah is that The Americans, they helped the Shah during 731 00:49:06.510 --> 00:49:11.219 the time of Eisenhower, around the 1956, 55, 56, to 732 00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:15.929 develop the program Atoms for Peace. And many countries, they 733 00:49:15.969 --> 00:49:19.050 had that. And the Shah had a very smart idea, actually. 734 00:49:19.090 --> 00:49:23.489 The Shah was saying that oil is a finite resource. 735 00:49:23.909 --> 00:49:30.179 So we cannot use oil only for heat. And we 736 00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:34.719 have to have alternative sources of power and keep oil 737 00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:42.309 for other usage. So the Shah was developing nuclear energy 738 00:49:42.610 --> 00:49:45.250 and in early... Around late. 739 00:49:45.289 --> 00:49:46.710 He wanted to diversify. 740 00:49:46.750 --> 00:49:54.050 Yeah, around late 1970s, there are some documents that some Israelis, 741 00:49:54.570 --> 00:49:58.719 they were saying that the Shah should develop nuclear weapon 742 00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:02.539 in order to be able to defeat the Arab enemies 743 00:50:02.619 --> 00:50:05.820 the same way, or at least frighten the Arab enemies. 744 00:50:06.139 --> 00:50:08.699 And at that time, the Americans... They did not want 745 00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:13.530 the Shah to have that and prevented that. And when 746 00:50:13.570 --> 00:50:17.190 this government came to power, it basically got rid of 747 00:50:17.409 --> 00:50:20.610 all the nuclear program in the beginning, and then they 748 00:50:20.679 --> 00:50:23.550 started again in the late 1980s. So when you go 749 00:50:23.610 --> 00:50:27.510 to the Israeli archives, that part of the archives is 750 00:50:27.710 --> 00:50:31.230 still not available to the public. But when you talk 751 00:50:31.269 --> 00:50:36.230 to the people in the Israeli army in the old times, 752 00:50:36.289 --> 00:50:40.820 the military attache, the Mossad people in Iran at the time, 753 00:50:41.139 --> 00:50:43.840 they're telling you that that's what happened, that we wanted 754 00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:49.119 to have Iran nuclear program. And the other thing is that, 755 00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:52.500 you know, between Iran and Israel is that There is 756 00:50:52.579 --> 00:50:57.360 no real beef between Iran and Israel. Iran needs Israel. 757 00:50:57.400 --> 00:51:01.929 By the way, I think more Jews in Iran than 758 00:51:02.090 --> 00:51:05.769 any other country around there after Israel and the United States. 759 00:51:06.030 --> 00:51:08.469 Maybe after Turkey. I'm not 100% sure. 760 00:51:08.570 --> 00:51:09.429 Right. Maybe Turkey. 761 00:51:09.530 --> 00:51:13.750 Right. There's a sizable Jewish community in Iran, and it's 762 00:51:13.829 --> 00:51:17.909 one of the oldest Jewish communities in the world. And 763 00:51:17.929 --> 00:51:20.829 you know that they're not Ashkenazi and they're not Sephardic. 764 00:51:21.230 --> 00:51:25.500 There are Iranian Jews, Persian Jews. And there are many 765 00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:28.119 of them is they are very close to where you live. 766 00:51:28.780 --> 00:51:29.679 They're in Long Island. 767 00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:31.460 Wait, what? 768 00:51:32.219 --> 00:51:32.960 Yeah, yeah. 769 00:51:33.219 --> 00:51:34.449 I thought it was Los Angeles. 770 00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:38.050 No, no, no, no. Great Neck. Great Neck in Long 771 00:51:38.329 --> 00:51:42.449 Island has the biggest Persian Jewish community. They know, you know, 772 00:51:42.489 --> 00:51:45.750 they know where to choose. These are like beautiful areas. 773 00:51:45.769 --> 00:51:46.570 They have very, very beautiful houses. 774 00:51:46.590 --> 00:51:48.070 You got to go by waterfront. You know, the Jews 775 00:51:48.090 --> 00:51:48.469 need the ocean. 776 00:51:48.489 --> 00:51:53.000 Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. So there's no beef between Iran 777 00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:53.639 and Israel. 778 00:51:53.940 --> 00:51:57.119 But it is. Iran's been very clear they would like 779 00:51:57.159 --> 00:51:59.340 to destroy Israel. And Israel's been very clear they would 780 00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:02.179 like to destroy Israel. at least this regime. 781 00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:07.079 Yeah. Well, Iran has to say that, again, because Khamenei 782 00:52:07.260 --> 00:52:10.079 and the regime as a whole, they need an enemy. 783 00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:11.719 But- Doshman, that's the doshman. 784 00:52:11.739 --> 00:52:14.059 They need a doshman, yeah, or doshman, if you want 785 00:52:14.099 --> 00:52:15.079 to emulate. 786 00:52:15.340 --> 00:52:16.420

Doshman, right. 787 00:52:16.739 --> 00:52:21.199 So yeah, in the Shah's time, there was no de 788 00:52:21.340 --> 00:52:27.710 facto relationship between Iran and Israel, but Israelis had up 789 00:52:27.730 --> 00:52:33.880 to 10,000 people working in Iran in different industries, advisors. 790 00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:37.500 There was a direct flight between Tehran and Tel Aviv. 791 00:52:37.940 --> 00:52:38.340 Really? 792 00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:47.130 Yeah, to ordinary Iranians. There are no animosity between Iran 793 00:52:47.150 --> 00:52:49.150 and Israel. You know, yes, of course. 794 00:52:49.650 --> 00:52:52.989 Do they not, is the Palestinian question not as important 795 00:52:53.070 --> 00:52:53.889 to the Iranians? 796 00:52:54.110 --> 00:52:58.800 No, the thing is that the Palestinian question is as 797 00:52:58.900 --> 00:53:04.420 important to Iranians as the situation of Rohingya is important 798 00:53:04.500 --> 00:53:07.409 to the Israelis. You know, they are sad about it. Yes, 799 00:53:07.510 --> 00:53:12.409 of course, when they see destroyed houses, their children, etc., 800 00:53:12.360 --> 00:53:15.599 they are sad about it. But it's not their issue. 801 00:53:15.900 --> 00:53:18.219 The same thing for the Israelis. The Israelis, when they 802 00:53:18.260 --> 00:53:21.320 look at the Rohingya in Burma, they're sad about it. 803 00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:23.300 But this is not something that has to do with them. 804 00:53:23.659 --> 00:53:28.289 So many Iranians, they just don't understand why they are 805 00:53:28.469 --> 00:53:33.969 stuck between a corrupt, violent government, a regime, and. 806 00:53:35.590 --> 00:53:39.070 A government in Israel that thinks that they can just 807 00:53:39.230 --> 00:53:43.489 bomb everything, and the solution to everything is bombing, including 808 00:53:43.530 --> 00:53:46.449 bringing democracy. And the icing on the cake was a 809 00:53:46.489 --> 00:53:50.030 few days ago when the Israelis, they bombed Evin prison 810 00:53:50.389 --> 00:53:53.250 in a symbolic gesture that we want. 811 00:53:53.010 --> 00:53:54.210 To bring freedom to Iran. 812 00:53:54.750 --> 00:53:58.889 And what happened, many buildings were destroyed, many windows were shattered, 813 00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:04.070 and many prisoners were hurt seriously, were injured seriously. And 814 00:54:04.090 --> 00:54:07.010 those are the people who hate the Iranian government. And 815 00:54:07.110 --> 00:54:09.150 those are the people who are the future of Iran. 816 00:54:09.429 --> 00:54:12.050 And the Israelis are hurting them because they want to 817 00:54:12.090 --> 00:54:15.070 bring democracy to Iran. 818 00:54:15.130 --> 00:54:18.860 Right. It's such a repeat of so many of the 819 00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:22.699 ill-founded efforts that we have had in that region for 820 00:54:22.739 --> 00:54:27.820 these past 100 years of that idea of, oh, we're 821 00:54:27.860 --> 00:54:33.989 going to bring democracy. How does

the Saudi bloc, and Qatar, UAE, 822 00:54:34.650 --> 00:54:38.530 how do they play into this? Because I'm always surprised, 823 00:54:39.889 --> 00:54:44.869 given the brutality of this campaign in Gaza, given this, 824 00:54:45.030 --> 00:54:51.650 you know, there's a lot of rhetoric from Turkey, the Saudis, Qatar. 825 00:54:52.389 --> 00:54:56.010 Nobody seems to do anything. Nobody seems to want to 826 00:54:56.050 --> 00:54:59.730 get involved on behalf of the Palestinians. Like to create, they'll, 827 00:54:59.809 --> 00:55:01.710 every now and again, they'll put out a kind of 828 00:55:01.789 --> 00:55:03.869 statement about a peace plan that they were going to do, 829 00:55:03.929 --> 00:55:08.219 but nobody will put skin in the game. And I'm 830 00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:15.099 wondering now, you know, as they're bombing Iran, the passivity 831 00:55:15.219 --> 00:55:19.280 of all the other countries, is that tacit approval of 832 00:55:20.619 --> 00:55:21.719 these actions? 833 00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:25.280 I wouldn't say that it's tacit. Yeah. I wouldn't say 834 00:55:25.300 --> 00:55:28.889 that it's a tacit approval. Some of them, you know, 835 00:55:29.429 --> 00:55:35.250 because Iran has been trying to have its proxies in 836 00:55:35.309 --> 00:55:39.849 different countries, including Saudi Arabia, and it has cells in 837 00:55:40.510 --> 00:55:44.070 Bahrain and UAE and Kuwait. 838 00:55:44.269 --> 00:55:47.050 Well, certainly Hezbollah and Hamas are the most well-known. 839 00:55:47.699 --> 00:55:50.940 Yes, but also, you know, they have smaller groups. Yeah, 840 00:55:51.300 --> 00:55:55.119 smaller groups they have in Saudi Arabia, in Bahrain, and 841 00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:59.900 other places, and Iran and Saudi Arabia, they haven't had 842 00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:05.860 a very brotherly relationship since 1979, even before that. But 843 00:56:06.019 --> 00:56:11.519 so on one hand, many people among the Arab countries 844 00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:17.860 around the Persian Gulf, they are kind of happy that 845 00:56:18.019 --> 00:56:21.179 Iran and Israel are fighting and the fact that Iran 846 00:56:21.849 --> 00:56:26.570 is being weakened by Israel and the United States. But 847 00:56:26.630 --> 00:56:32.420 at the same time, because the security and stability of 848 00:56:32.619 --> 00:56:40.710 the region, especially the Strait of Hormuz where 20% of 849 00:56:40.769 --> 00:56:44.690 the oil produced in the world, it goes through Strait 850 00:56:44.750 --> 00:56:48.030 of Hormuz every day, they are worried about the stability 851 00:56:48.090 --> 00:56:53.280 of that region. maybe in their heart, they're happy that 852 00:56:53.380 --> 00:56:56.659 Iran is being weakened. But when they think about it, 853 00:56:57.239 --> 00:57:01.309 the instability and insecurity of the region is not something 854 00:57:01.369 --> 00:57:06.710 that can be helping even the Persian Gulf Arab countries. 855 00:57:07.449 --> 00:57:12.289 And for all that time, you know, again, people always 856 00:57:12.349 --> 00:57:16.380 talk about the off-ramps. I think what's so helpful about this, Maziar, 857 00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:21.599 is you giving us the kind of context and background 858 00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:27.639 about how Iran developed and how they got here gives 859 00:57:27.699 --> 00:57:31.869 us sort of an idea into the psychology of it. 860 00:57:32.530 --> 00:57:37.230 You know, you and I still live in the 1979 861 00:57:37.230 --> 00:57:40.530 world to some extent. I would imagine that the majority 862 00:57:40.550 --> 00:57:44.670 of people now in Iran and in that region do 863 00:57:44.730 --> 00:57:49.969 not in any way remember 1979. don't have any real 864 00:57:51.159 --> 00:57:57.219 ties to the enemies and foes and friends of that time, 865 00:57:59.099 --> 00:58:04.349 it does present an opportunity to redefine what that region 866 00:58:05.030 --> 00:58:10.110 can be. It seems insane to me that this region 867 00:58:10.170 --> 00:58:13.179 has been so fraught. What are the real dangers? 868 00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:16.840 Well, you know, in Iran, the situation is not like 869 00:58:16.969 --> 00:58:21.170 as you described, because in Iran, they celebrate 1979 revolution 870 00:58:21.409 --> 00:58:23.929 every day. People see pictures. 871 00:58:24.010 --> 00:58:25.110 They still live in that moment. 872 00:58:25.289 --> 00:58:29.210 Oh, yeah. People see pictures of Khomeini, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, 873 00:58:29.230 --> 00:58:33.409 the founder of the revolution every day. And people collectively 874 00:58:33.869 --> 00:58:39.159 remember of the collective fuck up that they had in 1979, 875 00:58:39.159 --> 00:58:43.150 who came to the streets and chanted when Iran. the 876 00:58:43.510 --> 00:58:47.110 devil goes out, the angel comes in, meaning that when 877 00:58:47.150 --> 00:58:50.650 the Shah goes out, the angel, Ruhollah Khomeini, would come in. 878 00:58:51.070 --> 00:58:54.739 And I think, yeah, I mean, the whole nation, even 879 00:58:54.780 --> 00:58:57.940 the young people who don't remember 1979 and the majority 880 00:58:57.960 --> 00:59:02.440 of Iranians, maybe 85% have been born out after 1979, 881 00:59:02.440 --> 00:59:09.469 they still regret that historical mistake that they made in 1979. 882 00:59:11.199 --> 00:59:14.900 to have a revolution without knowing, without having a plan 883 00:59:15.260 --> 00:59:19.539 for the future. And that includes many people in the 884 00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:23.920 government now, people who were revolutionaries at the time, when 885 00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:26.820 you talk to them privately, and sometimes even publicly, when 886 00:59:26.840 --> 00:59:28.920 you talk to them, they said, we made a mistake. 887 00:59:28.980 --> 00:59:33.239 We should have given the Shah the opportunity to reform 888 00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:37.260 the country. The Shah was afraid of the Soviets, of 889 00:59:37.300 -->

00:59:41.219 the communists. And then maybe after the collapse of Soviet Union, 890 00:59:41.539 --> 00:59:45.949 there would be more opening. In any case, the situation 891 00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:48.690 would not be as bad as it is now. And 892 00:59:48.750 --> 00:59:52.969 that is according to many people within the Iranian government. 893 00:59:53.599 --> 00:59:58.539 Are their resentments more internal or are there resentments? So look, 894 00:59:59.219 --> 01:00:03.280 we've imposed really devastating sanctions on that country. You know, 895 01:00:03.300 --> 01:00:06.099 I would imagine it's very easy for them to point 896 01:00:06.179 --> 01:00:09.400 to as they did with you, that you are an 897 01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:13.079 agent of the West sent to weaken them. That's been 898 01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:15.980 their game plan. You've been the doshman. The West has 899 01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:21.030 been the doshman for so long that how reflective are they? 900 01:00:21.139 --> 01:00:24.840 And even within Iran, for those who resent, you know, 901 01:00:26.699 --> 01:00:31.119 what would you say is the regime's actual sort of 902 01:00:31.300 --> 01:00:34.219 support level, you know, given everything that's happened? 903 01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:38.079 Yeah, I would say based on the last election that 904 01:00:38.099 --> 01:00:41.440 we had, and the majority of people voted for the 905 01:00:41.480 --> 01:00:47.409 person who was not Khamenei's first choice for president, and people, 906 01:00:47.690 --> 01:00:50.610 you know, about five to 6 million people, or maybe 907 01:00:50.630 --> 01:00:53.389 a little bit more, 7 million people, maybe. They voted 908 01:00:53.449 --> 01:00:57.409 for Jalili, who was Khamenei's chosen candidate during the presidential 909 01:00:57.429 --> 01:01:01.070 election last year. I would say that is the highest 910 01:01:01.289 --> 01:01:03.789 level of support that you would have in the country. 911 01:01:04.110 --> 01:01:07.449 And that includes people who are getting funding by the government, 912 01:01:07.739 --> 01:01:14.510 the intelligence agents, etc. But this The question of sanctions 913 01:01:14.849 --> 01:01:20.139 is very important because I think it's multilayered. The problem 914 01:01:20.199 --> 01:01:28.019 is multilayered. In order to impose targeted sanctions against the 915 01:01:28.079 --> 01:01:33.889 nuclear program, against the human rights violators in terms of 916 01:01:35.429 --> 01:01:40.420 certain sectors within the Iranian economy, you need the bureaucracy 917 01:01:40.460 --> 01:01:44.909 to back it up. You need the people in the treasury, 918 01:01:45.230 --> 01:01:49.289 in the state department, other places in order to be 919 01:01:49.369 --> 01:01:52.369 able to liaise with the banks saying that, okay, this 920 01:01:52.730 --> 01:01:58.599 pharmaceutical company that wants to bring, you know, wants to 921 01:01:58.679 --> 01:02:03.159 import medicine from the U.S. or, you know,

medical equipment 922 01:02:03.179 --> 01:02:06.039 from the U.S., they can be exempted. They can have 923 01:02:06.099 --> 01:02:11.909 this OFAC license that, you know, Treasury issues for the exceptions. 924 01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:18.050 But that bureaucracy has not existed in the U.S. government 925 01:02:18.469 --> 01:02:24.469 since the beginning, since 1979, when Carter's administration imposed the sanction. And, 926 01:02:24.489 --> 01:02:29.780 you know, neither Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Obama, Bush Sr., Bush Jr., 927 01:02:29.710 --> 01:02:32.110 none of them had that. And it doesn't exist at 928 01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:38.039 the moment. And at the same time, the Revolutionary Guards... 929 01:02:38.510 --> 01:02:42.130 is not only a military force in Iran. It is 930 01:02:42.269 --> 01:02:47.010 the biggest industrialist in Iran, and it has many companies. 931 01:02:47.789 --> 01:02:52.429 It has shares in some private companies. So when the 932 01:02:52.469 --> 01:03:00.119 Revolutionary Guards Corps, IRGC, is prescribed, is subjected to sanctions, 933 01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:05.820 that means that the pharmaceutical companies that are owned by 934 01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:12.219 the Revolutionary Guards, the pharmaceutical companies that bring medical equipment 935 01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:17.449 to Iran, they are subjected to sanctions as well. That 936 01:03:17.650 --> 01:03:23.969 somehow resembles hiding among civilians for the Revolutionary Guards, because 937 01:03:24.190 --> 01:03:27.619 it is like an octopus. It has its tentacles everywhere, 938 01:03:27.980 --> 01:03:31.760 in every aspect of Iranian society. And sometimes, you know, 939 01:03:31.820 --> 01:03:36.219 you are a bookkeeper or you're an accountant working for 940 01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:39.320 a company, for a pharmaceutical company. And then the Revolutionary 941 01:03:39.440 --> 01:03:44.929 Guards take over. You're immediately become subjected to sanctions by 942 01:03:45.409 --> 01:03:48.329 the American government and many other governments. So I think 943 01:03:48.369 --> 01:03:53.469 this question about sanctions is very, very complicated. 944 01:03:59.309 --> 01:04:02.829 Folks. You know, this company, Mint Mobile, I don't want 945 01:04:02.849 --> 01:04:04.650 to keep you in suspense in any of these things. 946 01:04:04.949 --> 01:04:09.489 They got themselves maybe the ad spokesman of the century, 947 01:04:09.809 --> 01:04:13.010 Ryan Reynolds. But apparently, they need a little extra push. 948 01:04:14.250 --> 01:04:16.940 And they're bringing in, I guess, you know, it's like anything. 949 01:04:16.960 --> 01:04:19.699 You got to sub in. One guy can't do all 950 01:04:19.739 --> 01:04:22.820 of it. So you bring in a couple of scrubs, 951 01:04:23.079 --> 01:04:25.139 see if they can push a few more over the 952 01:04:25.179 --> 01:04:28.099 finish line. And that's what this is. That's me for 953 01:04:28.780 --> 01:04:32.400 Mint Mobile. But the pitch basically essentially stays the same. 954 01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:35.510 You got overpriced phone bills and you can lose them 955 01:04:35.530 --> 01:04:38.550 by switching to Mint Mobile. You know, the fucking thing's 956 01:04:38.550 --> 01:04:42.070 15 bucks a month. What are you looking for better? 957 01:04:42.090 --> 01:04:44.289 What are you thinking? You're going to grab one for nine? 958 01:04:44.690 --> 01:04:48.650 It's 15 bucks a month. High-speed data, unlimited talk and text, 959 01:04:49.219 --> 01:04:53.380 largest 5G network in the nation. To get your new 960 01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:56.599 wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com 961 01:04:56.619 --> 01:05:01.489 slash TWS. That's mintmobile.com slash TWS. Cut your wireless bill 962 01:05:02.190 --> 01:05:06.969 to $ 15 a month at mintmobile.com slash TWS. That's it. 963 01:05:07.309 --> 01:05:10.929 There's no catch. Upfront payments of $ 45 for three months, 964 01:05:10.929 --> 01:05:15.570 $ 90 for six months, or $ 180 for 12 months. Plan required. 965 01:05:15.570 --> 01:05:18.389 $ 15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan 966 01:05:18.409 --> 01:05:21.369 term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes. May slow when network 967 01:05:21.429 --> 01:05:26.809 is busy. Includes up to 20 gigabyte hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, 968 01:05:26.909 --> 01:05:31.809 and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. I really hope they speed 969 01:05:31.869 --> 01:05:32.489 that up. 970 01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:41.960 But I think the main reason for the sanctions is 971 01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:46.340 the behavior of the Iranian government. In 1979, when the 972 01:05:46.409 --> 01:05:52.409 sanctions started, they started because a group of students inspired 973 01:05:52.750 --> 01:05:57.530 and supported by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini took over the American 974 01:05:57.610 --> 01:06:03.929 embassy in Tehran. meaning part of the American land. And 975 01:06:03.969 --> 01:06:09.340 I think that resentment still exists among many American diplomats 976 01:06:09.619 --> 01:06:13.800 and actually among many older Americans who are voting for 977 01:06:14.420 --> 01:06:15.280 different elections. 978 01:06:15.610 --> 01:06:18.989 Absolutely. That's what I meant by it. For the younger Americans, 979 01:06:19.170 --> 01:06:22.389 I don't think they have any foreknowledge of that. But 980 01:06:22.469 --> 01:06:27.199 for older people who still remember the pain of that time, 981 01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:30.820 That's why I'm saying this seems like a moment where 982 01:06:30.860 --> 01:06:37.139 we can finally break free from this kind of historic, 983 01:06:37.639 --> 01:06:40.079 self-defeating pattern that has isolated. 984 01:06:40.099 --> 01:06:42.760 That requires reading and education, though. 985 01:06:43.139 --> 01:06:44.360 Well, it's funny. You always. 986 01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:44.860 I don't think. 987 01:06:45.860 --> 01:06:48.440 The one

thing Maziar was always really clear with me, 988 01:06:48.519 --> 01:06:51.300 so we always talked about this when we were sort 989 01:06:51.320 --> 01:06:56.159 of working on the film, was the difference between incompetence 990 01:06:56.739 --> 01:07:01.320 and evil. And you were always really clear that so 991 01:07:01.420 --> 01:07:03.920 much of, and we tried to sort of insinuate that 992 01:07:03.960 --> 01:07:06.929 with the interrogator that used to, that Kim Bodnia who 993 01:07:06.949 --> 01:07:09.929 played your interrogator that would come in, this idea that 994 01:07:10.010 --> 01:07:15.590 they weren't evil as much as ignorant and incompetent. And 995 01:07:15.730 --> 01:07:20.789 that chasm seems like it's only grown and it is 996 01:07:20.869 --> 01:07:25.849 the Revolutionary Guard, the only organization that, within Iran now 997 01:07:25.889 --> 01:07:28.710 that kind of functions as holding that whole thing together? 998 01:07:29.769 --> 01:07:33.139 No, I think the civil society in Iran is still 999 01:07:33.179 --> 01:07:39.400 very strong. Iranians are educated. And since the Women, Life, 1000 01:07:39.460 --> 01:07:44.820 Freedom movement, Iranian society has changed a lot. You see 1001 01:07:44.960 --> 01:07:48.239 stronger civil society groups. And these civil society groups, they 1002 01:07:48.280 --> 01:07:51.449 are not maybe politically active and they want to topple 1003 01:07:51.469 --> 01:07:56.019 the government. They are environmentalists. They are You know, they 1004 01:07:56.119 --> 01:08:00.400 are involved in providing employment to different people. They are 1005 01:08:02.119 --> 01:08:06.010 targeting poverty in different parts of the group. So society 1006 01:08:06.150 --> 01:08:10.269 as a whole is really progressing and is really advancing 1007 01:08:11.769 --> 01:08:14.469 regardless of what the government is doing. Right. 1008 01:08:14.710 --> 01:08:17.270 Almost nature finds a way. Exactly. 1009 01:08:17.329 --> 01:08:20.800 And, you know, some, many Iranians in the absence of 1010 01:08:21.100 --> 01:08:25.779 any viable opposition to this government They are implicitly and 1011 01:08:26.020 --> 01:08:30.739 explicitly asking the government, just leave us alone. Just leave 1012 01:08:30.819 --> 01:08:34.560 us the fuck alone. We want to do, you know, 1013 01:08:34.600 --> 01:08:37.520 we want to provide jobs. We want to clean the environment. 1014 01:08:37.979 --> 01:08:40.649 This is the air that we all are breathing. You know, 1015 01:08:40.699 --> 01:08:43.609 let us clean the air. What's wrong with that? But 1016 01:08:44.350 --> 01:08:48.529 the Revolutionary Guards, on the other hand, they are very organized. 1017 01:08:49.789 --> 01:08:53.659 But again, the Revolutionary Guards is not a monolith. There 1018 01:08:53.819 --> 01:08:58.310 are different factions within the Revolutionary Guards who are fighting 1019 01:08:58.329 --> 01:09:06.000 against each other. A voice file came out about five, 1020 01:09:06.060 --> 01:09:11.489 six years ago. It was about the clash between Qasem Soleimani, 1021 01:09:11.510 --> 01:09:14.890 the former head of the Quds Force, and the commander 1022 01:09:14.949 --> 01:09:17.949 of the Revolutionary Guards and the because of the fact 1023 01:09:17.989 --> 01:09:22.739 that Soleimani was involved in some money laundering, et cetera. 1024 01:09:22.840 --> 01:09:26.859 So that guy was criticizing him. So revolutionary guards is 1025 01:09:26.939 --> 01:09:29.479 not a monolith as well. And also you have to 1026 01:09:29.539 --> 01:09:33.739 remember that, and I hope that the American administration remembers 1027 01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:36.859 that as well, that many people, they are drafted into 1028 01:09:36.920 --> 01:09:42.939 revolutionary guards. So when a young person is graduating from 1029 01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:46.350 high school, or maybe not drafting and joins the army, 1030 01:09:46.649 --> 01:09:50.550 they have a few choices. They can go to the army, 1031 01:09:50.649 --> 01:09:55.310 the navy, or they can be drafted into revolutionary guards. 1032 01:09:55.710 --> 01:10:01.279 And they have no ideological belonging to the revolutionary guard. 1033 01:10:01.300 --> 01:10:04.239 They don't ideologically support, but they're just drafted to the 1034 01:10:04.260 --> 01:10:07.819 revolutionary guard. So the revolutionary guard is really not a 1035 01:10:07.840 --> 01:10:12.850 monolith as well. And yeah, so in the absence of 1036 01:10:13.109 --> 01:10:19.090 any viable opposition, in the absence of any viable alternative, 1037 01:10:19.649 --> 01:10:26.420 the majority of Iranians, they want security. They want peace. 1038 01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:30.039 They want to be able to provide the basics for 1039 01:10:30.079 --> 01:10:33.029 the family, whether under this government or not. 1040 01:10:33.170 --> 01:10:34.430 And have a sense of a future. 1041 01:10:35.630 --> 01:10:37.329 And they want to have a sense of future. And 1042 01:10:37.369 --> 01:10:39.640 I think, yeah, I think that's very important. You know, 1043 01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:46.539 when the Israelis, they are targeting Tehran and they're targeting 1044 01:10:46.680 --> 01:10:53.060 civilian areas or they're targeting oil refineries. And when people 1045 01:10:53.199 --> 01:10:57.880 remember what the Israelis have done in Gaza... That doesn't 1046 01:10:57.939 --> 01:11:01.159 give them the confidence that the Israelis, they want to. 1047 01:11:01.020 --> 01:11:03.079 Work with them in the future. 1048 01:11:03.199 --> 01:11:06.840 Exactly, that they want to work with them in the future. 1049 01:11:06.939 --> 01:11:09.420 But see, this is what's so heartbreaking about this region. 1050 01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:11.680 And this is something that I think I learned from 1051 01:11:11.720 --> 01:11:15.550 working with you and from being over there. I don't 1052 01:11:15.649 --> 01:11:18.390 know of a region of the world where

there is 1053 01:11:18.449 --> 01:11:22.949 a larger gap between the nature of the people and 1054 01:11:23.010 --> 01:11:27.569 the nature of their leadership. the extremities of people's leadership 1055 01:11:28.069 --> 01:11:32.310 in these areas versus, I mean, I can remember when 1056 01:11:32.329 --> 01:11:35.800 we sent Jason Jones, when we originally interviewed you during 1057 01:11:36.560 --> 01:11:42.819 that time of the Ahmadinejad election, a warmer group of people, 1058 01:11:43.180 --> 01:11:47.680 better educated, a more artistic, you will not find when 1059 01:11:47.699 --> 01:11:51.119 you go into often these regions that are being torn 1060 01:11:51.180 --> 01:11:56.090 apart by extremist violence, you know, the people in Palestine, 1061 01:11:56.189 --> 01:12:00.590 a more hospitable, like lovely with nothing who I remember 1062 01:12:00.630 --> 01:12:06.560 we would go into those refugee camps, uh, in, in Jordan, 1063 01:12:06.939 --> 01:12:10.960 people with nothing who wanted only to invite us in 1064 01:12:12.340 --> 01:12:13.079 and feed us. 1065 01:12:13.539 --> 01:12:13.739 Yeah. 1066 01:12:14.300 --> 01:12:20.210 And I was so struck by the gap between the 1067 01:12:20.350 --> 01:12:24.289 beauty of the hearts of those people and the hardness 1068 01:12:24.729 --> 01:12:28.020 of the hearts of the leadership. And I feel like 1069 01:12:28.840 --> 01:12:30.539 that is where we're caught right now. 1070 01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:31.199 Yeah. 1071 01:12:31.640 --> 01:12:34.760 And you know, when you travel to countries like Malaysia 1072 01:12:34.880 --> 01:12:39.260 or Thailand or any other South Asian countries, but I'm 1073 01:12:39.300 --> 01:12:43.000 giving Malaysia as an example because it's a Muslim country 1074 01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:46.539 and they don't have any relations with Israel. The majority 1075 01:12:46.600 --> 01:12:48.800 of people don't like Israel because of what it's doing 1076 01:12:48.840 --> 01:12:53.630 to the Palestinians. But the Malaysian government does not build 1077 01:12:53.710 --> 01:12:57.489 a weapon and write in Hebrew on it, death to Israel. 1078 01:12:58.189 --> 01:13:03.560 You know, they don't invest so much money into denying 1079 01:13:03.619 --> 01:13:08.600 the Holocaust, into anti-Semitic propaganda. No, they don't have relations 1080 01:13:08.659 --> 01:13:11.649 with Israel, but, you know, they're doing their job. They 1081 01:13:11.659 --> 01:13:13.069 have good relations with the U.S. 1082 01:13:13.170 --> 01:13:16.289 But it's not their reason for existing is to destroy them. 1083 01:13:16.310 --> 01:13:18.789 Exactly. It's not the reasons for this. And they don't 1084 01:13:18.970 --> 01:13:21.090 do anything about Israel. They just don't like it. They 1085 01:13:21.130 --> 01:13:23.430 don't deal with them. That's all. Maybe they deal with them, 1086 01:13:23.449 --> 01:13:25.939 but not. But it's not something that the Malaysians, they 1087 01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:28.460

wake up in the morning and see death to Israel 1088 01:13:28.579 --> 01:13:30.880 all the time. And, you know, if you think about it, 1089 01:13:30.939 --> 01:13:33.520 like when you're if you're an Israeli and I've been 1090 01:13:33.560 --> 01:13:37.100 to Israel a few times in the past, 10 years 1091 01:13:37.159 --> 01:13:41.510 or so, when you are an Israeli and you have 1092 01:13:41.560 --> 01:13:46.050 this government that chants death to Israel all the time, 1093 01:13:46.630 --> 01:13:48.729 as I said, and the example I gave is a 1094 01:13:48.750 --> 01:13:51.229 real example that they build bombs and they wrote on 1095 01:13:51.609 --> 01:13:55.909 in Hebrew on it, death to Israel. And at the 1096 01:13:55.949 --> 01:13:59.270 same time, you see that they are funding groups that 1097 01:13:59.369 --> 01:14:02.859 are acting against you. That doesn't give you the confidence 1098 01:14:02.899 --> 01:14:05.159 as an Israeli that, you know, you can deal with 1099 01:14:05.220 --> 01:14:08.500 this government. and you think about doing something. 1100 01:14:08.680 --> 01:14:11.760 Then you also, though, have politicians in the Knesset saying 1101 01:14:11.880 --> 01:14:15.350 we should nuke Gaza. I mean, I can't imagine that's 1102 01:14:15.390 --> 01:14:16.770 giving much confidence on the other side. 1103 01:14:16.789 --> 01:14:19.489 Of course, I mean, there are some rabbis in Israel 1104 01:14:19.510 --> 01:14:22.329 who are saying that we have to emulate Iran and 1105 01:14:22.529 --> 01:14:26.050 we have to have a Jewish... Jewish kingdom in Israel. 1106 01:14:26.090 --> 01:14:29.229 But I mean, we're not talking about like the extremes. 1107 01:14:29.329 --> 01:14:31.930 We're talking about normal people for normal Israelis. 1108 01:14:31.949 --> 01:14:32.510 That's what I mean. 1109 01:14:32.630 --> 01:14:33.430 The gap. 1110 01:14:33.630 --> 01:14:33.949 Yeah. 1111 01:14:34.210 --> 01:14:36.409 I think it would be interesting. But the problem is 1112 01:14:36.449 --> 01:14:42.279 that there is the narrative exactly that the ordinary Israelis, 1113 01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:47.699 they do not understand the narrative of ordinary Iranians and 1114 01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:51.100 vice versa. Yeah. Yeah. if I want to blow our 1115 01:14:51.199 --> 01:14:53.720 own heart, is that what we're doing in Iran, where 1116 01:14:53.739 --> 01:14:59.310 we're trying to somehow translate these narratives for the Iranian audiences, 1117 01:14:59.399 --> 01:15:02.329 but what the rest of the world are saying and 1118 01:15:02.430 --> 01:15:05.029 for the rest of the world, but what the Iranians 1119 01:15:05.109 --> 01:15:05.470 are saying. 1120 01:15:06.350 --> 01:15:08.970 And it kind of takes us around sort of full 1121 01:15:09.010 --> 01:15:12.880 circle to what we were talking about earlier. And, you know, 1122 01:15:12.899 --> 01:15:16.239 we're talking to Maziar Bahari, who had been imprisoned in, 1123 01:15:16.260 --> 01:15:21.670 in Evan and

has certainly, you know, his family had 1124 01:15:21.710 --> 01:15:24.310 been arrested by the Shah. I mean, that's the other 1125 01:15:24.329 --> 01:15:27.729 thing I want to make clear is, you know, Maziar's experience, 1126 01:15:28.409 --> 01:15:33.180 his experience was with Khamenei and being in solitary confinement. 1127 01:15:33.500 --> 01:15:40.819 His father's experience was with similar repression, but under the Shah. 1128 01:15:41.579 --> 01:15:41.800 Yes. 1129 01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:45.229 And so you've, you've seen, you know, the, the U 1130 01:15:45.390 --> 01:15:47.590 S aligned government and the non U S aligned government 1131 01:15:48.010 --> 01:15:52.689 acting in in the same fashion, you know, as they say, 1132 01:15:52.750 --> 01:15:53.350 meet the new boss. 1133 01:15:53.369 --> 01:15:55.010 Oh, within the same, but similar fashion. 1134 01:15:55.329 --> 01:15:58.680 Similar fashion, meet the new boss, same as the old boss. 1135 01:15:59.760 --> 01:16:05.520 Is there some way, and this is probably a question 1136 01:16:05.720 --> 01:16:09.899 beyond all of it, where a country born in revolution, 1137 01:16:09.939 --> 01:16:12.350 and let's say the birthday is 79, or in Israel, 1138 01:16:13.109 --> 01:16:21.350 born in a or whatever it was that created it through, 1139 01:16:23.149 --> 01:16:30.350 that they mature past this existential tightrope that they seem 1140 01:16:30.390 --> 01:16:37.140 to always feel like they're walking and get past whatever 1141 01:16:37.500 --> 01:16:43.699 they believe is the fear or humiliation of actions and 1142 01:16:43.859 --> 01:16:50.729 take this chance of of maturing past that moment and 1143 01:16:50.819 --> 01:16:57.029 giving their good people an opportunity to rejoin the family 1144 01:16:57.069 --> 01:17:02.149 of other nations and still obviously have issues. And act 1145 01:17:02.170 --> 01:17:05.789 fucking normal. That's it. Act fucking normal. 1146 01:17:05.829 --> 01:17:08.149 Act normal. Like, you know, with the government of Malaysia, 1147 01:17:08.189 --> 01:17:10.489 for example, it's not the best government in the world, 1148 01:17:10.529 --> 01:17:12.529 but it doesn't wake up and say, death to America. 1149 01:17:12.949 --> 01:17:16.500 You know, it took you about... two or three minutes 1150 01:17:16.619 --> 01:17:21.029 to ask that question. I think that process, it was 1151 01:17:21.069 --> 01:17:25.550 a long question. No, but it's, you know, but it's 1152 01:17:25.609 --> 01:17:28.710 important for the right question to be asked. You need 1153 01:17:28.729 --> 01:17:31.149 to take your time. You need to think about it 1154 01:17:31.430 --> 01:17:35.449 and you need to articulate it. For this change that 1155 01:17:35.489 --> 01:17:39.880 you're asking about, people have to think about it. People 1156 01:17:39.939 --> 01:17:43.420 have to introspect and people have to come up with solutions. 1157 01:17:44.010 --> 01:17:48.130 The Iranian society, the majority of Iranians are doing that. 1158 01:17:49.140 --> 01:17:52.300 What you're asking about is not going to happen as 1159 01:17:52.340 --> 01:17:55.699 a result of a bombing. It's not going to happen 1160 01:17:55.819 --> 01:17:59.600 as a result of sudden change. As I said, after 1161 01:17:59.659 --> 01:18:04.750 the woman life freedom, Iranian society was changing. It has 1162 01:18:04.810 --> 01:18:11.329 been changing. This set of bombing, this 12-day war, I'm 1163 01:18:11.390 --> 01:18:14.470 not sure whether it's going to be an obstacle to 1164 01:18:14.510 --> 01:18:19.409 that or it may have weakened the regime to a 1165 01:18:19.989 --> 01:18:23.909 certain extent that they may listen to people. If they're 1166 01:18:24.229 --> 01:18:27.649 wise enough, they would be listening to people and don't 1167 01:18:27.989 --> 01:18:30.699 worry about hijab and things like that. And they would 1168 01:18:30.720 --> 01:18:35.039 just try to have people on their side and survive, 1169 01:18:35.300 --> 01:18:39.920 but survive in a more normal way. But there's also 1170 01:18:40.159 --> 01:18:44.770 the fear, the danger that they go Ayatollah Khomeini's way, 1171 01:18:45.130 --> 01:18:49.630 that after 1988, after defeat from Iraq, the military defeat, 1172 01:18:50.180 --> 01:18:54.239 they can close the society. But one way or another, 1173 01:18:54.260 --> 01:18:58.189 I am very hopeful about the long-term future of Iran 1174 01:18:58.829 --> 01:19:03.090 because the people I talk to, the young women and 1175 01:19:03.170 --> 01:19:05.710 men I talk to, especially young women, I think the 1176 01:19:05.770 --> 01:19:10.829 Iranian women, they're just It's just, it's really, their future 1177 01:19:10.869 --> 01:19:14.020 is theirs. And when you think about the sacrifices that 1178 01:19:14.060 --> 01:19:17.960 they've made, the amount of shit they've had to go 1179 01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:22.600 through since 1979 and even before that, and their resilience 1180 01:19:22.720 --> 01:19:26.220 and their brilliance, you can see that the future of 1181 01:19:26.300 --> 01:19:29.989 Iran can be in the hands of these women. And 1182 01:19:30.010 --> 01:19:33.250 I'm very hopeful about the long-term future of Iran. 1183 01:19:33.609 --> 01:19:33.810 But. 1184 01:19:34.939 --> 01:19:37.699 In the short term, especially in the next few months 1185 01:19:37.939 --> 01:19:44.140 after such a humiliating defeat by Israelis and Americans, I'm 1186 01:19:44.180 --> 01:19:47.460 not sure. There might be some tragedies happening in the 1187 01:19:47.520 --> 01:19:50.850 next few days, weeks, and months. 1188 01:19:51.520 --> 01:19:54.210 And I can remember you and I would talk about 1189 01:19:54.229 --> 01:19:59.170 these movements and the Green Movement and when they would 1190 01:19:59.189 --> 01:20:01.409 sort of dissipate. The people would come out on the street, 1191 01:20:02.489 --> 01:20:07.659 the Basij or the Revolutionary Guard would put it down

violently. 1192 01:20:08.340 --> 01:20:10.850 And you said something to me once that really struck 1193 01:20:10.890 --> 01:20:14.890 with me, which was the people of Iran decided they 1194 01:20:14.949 --> 01:20:18.430 like life more than they like freedom. 1195 01:20:18.649 --> 01:20:19.189 Exactly. 1196 01:20:19.350 --> 01:20:25.260 And that they were tired of, for their freedom, having 1197 01:20:25.319 --> 01:20:30.960 to put themselves in such harm's way. And boy, that 1198 01:20:31.359 --> 01:20:32.000 was such a powerful. 1199 01:20:32.039 --> 01:20:33.979 They wanted to celebrate life. They just want to have 1200 01:20:34.020 --> 01:20:39.079 a normal life. The most famous song that came out 1201 01:20:39.119 --> 01:20:42.779 of the Woman Life Freedom, it's called Baraya 4. And 1202 01:20:42.859 --> 01:20:45.819 the main line in that song is for a normal life. 1203 01:20:46.020 --> 01:20:49.079 And that is something that people have been fighting for, 1204 01:20:49.180 --> 01:20:52.020 just a normal life. I want to go out. I 1205 01:20:52.060 --> 01:20:54.750 want to buy a piece of bread. I want to just, 1206 01:20:54.810 --> 01:20:57.189 you know, hang out with my friends. I want to 1207 01:20:57.310 --> 01:20:57.789 drink coffee. 1208 01:20:57.829 --> 01:20:58.029 Right. 1209 01:20:58.659 --> 01:21:02.649 And that is not allowed in. 1210 01:21:02.569 --> 01:21:04.930 A normal- And that is not against God. And that 1211 01:21:04.989 --> 01:21:08.289 is not something that- Exactly. Guys on motorcycles with fucking 1212 01:21:08.329 --> 01:21:12.350 sticks should drive through us and start beating us as 1213 01:21:12.409 --> 01:21:12.930 we're doing it. 1214 01:21:13.130 --> 01:21:15.390 And the sad thing is that they are shooting themselves 1215 01:21:15.510 --> 01:21:18.409 in the foot and they are undermining their own authority 1216 01:21:18.510 --> 01:21:24.020 by alienating people, by alienating people who may have rallied 1217 01:21:24.399 --> 01:21:26.890 around them at the time of war, at the time 1218 01:21:26.930 --> 01:21:35.010 that a foreign country has invaded the land. But unfortunately, 1219 01:21:35.050 --> 01:21:37.100 I'm sure that they're not going to learn from this 1220 01:21:37.489 --> 01:21:41.539 and they're going to continue with this morality police and 1221 01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:42.520 things like that. 1222 01:21:43.260 --> 01:21:48.279 Well, Maziar, this has been, for me, just wonderful to 1223 01:21:48.340 --> 01:21:50.239 see you, wonderful to catch up with you. 1224 01:21:50.640 --> 01:21:51.659 Lovely to see you too. 1225 01:21:52.359 --> 01:21:56.350 It's so nice to see you still Just passionately doing 1226 01:21:56.489 --> 01:21:59.449 the work, you know, and I hope the listeners can 1227 01:21:59.489 --> 01:22:02.010 tell from Mazer, you know, I've always said, like, you're 1228 01:22:02.029 --> 01:22:05.220 a Renaissance man, like the amount of knowledge that Mazer has, 1229 01:22:05.539 --> 01:22:08.380 and you heard it on display, but man, get them 1230 01:22:08.420 --> 01:22:10.899 going on film and music, and it gets even better. 1231 01:22:11.409 --> 01:22:13.170 even deeper and more specific. 1232 01:22:13.550 --> 01:22:16.909 You know, you can always find good analogies with Bee 1233 01:22:16.949 --> 01:22:19.909 Gees and Seinfeld. So, you know, if you know a 1234 01:22:19.970 --> 01:22:23.430 few Bee Gees and Seinfeld analogies, I think you're set 1235 01:22:23.470 --> 01:22:23.930 for life. 1236 01:22:24.430 --> 01:22:29.619 He can pull them in. Very few people, custodians of history, 1237 01:22:29.899 --> 01:22:32.319 have that same knowledge of the disco era. 1238 01:22:32.659 --> 01:22:34.939 Well, thank you very much. It's very nice to see 1239 01:22:34.960 --> 01:22:35.399 you too. 1240 01:22:36.060 --> 01:22:41.859 Yeah, wonderful. And Iran Wire, is just this incredible platform 1241 01:22:41.880 --> 01:22:45.359 that allows people in Iran to still have a voice 1242 01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:48.369 outside of Iran and get their stories out. And Maziar 1243 01:22:48.390 --> 01:22:52.329 has been doing that work for now. It's got to be, what, 10, 1244 01:22:52.329 --> 01:22:53.710 12 years? 1245 01:22:53.729 --> 01:22:56.510 It's 12 years now, yeah. And it's also available in English. 1246 01:22:56.550 --> 01:23:00.189 So people can go to iranwired.com and read the articles 1247 01:23:00.260 --> 01:23:02.359 in English. Or we are also on Substack. 1248 01:23:03.399 --> 01:23:07.020 Oh, look at you. Look at modern Maziar. Very nice. 1249 01:23:07.100 --> 01:23:08.470 Exactly. All right. 1250 01:23:08.659 --> 01:23:11.189 Well, it's just lovely to see you. Maziar Bahari. 1251 01:23:11.210 --> 01:23:11.689 Yeah, you too. 1252 01:23:11.789 --> 01:23:12.189 Everybody. 1253 01:23:12.430 --> 01:23:12.829 Thank you. 1254 01:23:17.050 --> 01:23:18.489 How much you love Maziar Bahari? 1255 01:23:18.909 --> 01:23:19.409 So funny. 1256 01:23:19.729 --> 01:23:20.510 He's so great. 1257 01:23:20.789 --> 01:23:23.130 And he is a dead ringer for Peter Sellers. When 1258 01:23:23.149 --> 01:23:26.789 he said that, it really clicked for me. And Peter Sellers, 1259 01:23:26.869 --> 01:23:28.649 he never let race get in the way of a 1260 01:23:28.680 --> 01:23:29.189 good part. 1261 01:23:29.380 --> 01:23:32.460 No. No. And by the way, then that's why we 1262 01:23:32.479 --> 01:23:37.159 had Gael, a... Mexican national playing an Iranian national. And 1263 01:23:37.199 --> 01:23:40.649 I remember saying, uh, to, to Maziar when, when we 1264 01:23:40.689 --> 01:23:43.850 were first, uh, you know, going to do the movie, 1265 01:23:43.890 --> 01:23:46.489 I said, Maziar, I have this idea, you know, all 1266 01:23:46.529 --> 01:23:50.109 Iranian cast and, and maybe even we do it in Farsi, like, 1267 01:23:50.409 --> 01:23:53.369 and this is going to be the most, uh, you know, 1268 01:23:53.430 --> 01:23:57.399 naturalistic portrayal. And he was

like, don't you want people 1269 01:23:57.460 --> 01:23:58.300 to see the movie? 1270 01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:02.220 You know, he's like, my first rule is he has 1271 01:24:02.239 --> 01:24:02.979 to be handsome. 1272 01:24:04.020 --> 01:24:06.720 That, that actually was his first rule. He thought, he 1273 01:24:06.729 --> 01:24:09.739 thought Gael was, was close to handsome. So he was, 1274 01:24:10.340 --> 01:24:12.449 he was good there, but it's so great to hear him. 1275 01:24:12.779 --> 01:24:18.140 And very few people have, again, his knowledge of history, 1276 01:24:18.239 --> 01:24:22.800 but also culture and are so agile. He's so agile 1277 01:24:22.819 --> 01:24:26.399 in the way that he weaves it all together. But 1278 01:24:26.439 --> 01:24:29.939 you can tell he's worried. And, and I think he 1279 01:24:29.979 --> 01:24:34.800 has so many friends who, and family members and people 1280 01:24:34.859 --> 01:24:38.359 that I think he's really concerned about. And I think 1281 01:24:38.819 --> 01:24:41.399 the uncertainty of the moment I could see is weighing 1282 01:24:41.460 --> 01:24:41.659 on him. 1283 01:24:42.140 --> 01:24:42.680 Absolutely. 1284 01:24:43.039 --> 01:24:46.159 It was so good, though, to get those first-person accounts 1285 01:24:46.220 --> 01:24:49.210 through him of what young people are saying on the ground. 1286 01:24:49.250 --> 01:24:52.949 It's just because that's so often lost in this conversation, 1287 01:24:53.670 --> 01:24:56.289 what the Iranian people want for the future of their country. 1288 01:24:57.010 --> 01:24:59.810 Just the breadth of what I don't know about Iran, 1289 01:24:59.890 --> 01:25:03.359 what I assume most Americans don't know about Iran. But 1290 01:25:03.479 --> 01:25:07.159 I feel confident saying our leaders don't know about Iran. 1291 01:25:07.300 --> 01:25:08.180 At least Ted Cruz. 1292 01:25:08.420 --> 01:25:13.220 Staggering. Right. Well, I can even remember when we did Rosewater, 1293 01:25:13.619 --> 01:25:18.069 you know, we talked a lot about it. And the 1294 01:25:19.069 --> 01:25:21.789 idea was like, if you're an American, this was the 1295 01:25:21.810 --> 01:25:25.510 most nuanced view of, you know, inside Iran you'd ever seen. 1296 01:25:25.710 --> 01:25:28.989 But if you were Iranian, it probably felt like an 1297 01:25:29.140 --> 01:25:33.449 utter farce, two-dimensional sledgehammer. You know what I mean? That's 1298 01:25:34.090 --> 01:25:39.770 the gap between our understandings of the separate countries. And 1299 01:25:39.789 --> 01:25:44.810 you can see how those gaps lead to such devastating outcomes. 1300 01:25:44.869 --> 01:25:46.590 And I think Maziar said it best. He said it's 1301 01:25:46.649 --> 01:25:49.609 not a monolith. There are those that really support and 1302 01:25:49.890 --> 01:25:53.520 are really locked into that revolutionary mindset. And there are 1303 01:25:53.560 --> 01:25:55.439 those that are just like, we just want to fucking 1304 01:25:55.859 --> 01:25:56.699 live our lives. 1305 01:25:57.319 --> 01:25:57.579 Yeah. 1306 01:25:57.659 --> 01:25:58.600 And who can't. 1307 01:25:58.420 --> 01:25:59.000 Relate to that? 1308 01:25:59.220 --> 01:25:59.579 Totally. 1309 01:25:59.600 --> 01:26:01.859 I was thinking about something you all were saying, which 1310 01:26:01.939 --> 01:26:04.159 is you know, the generosity of the people on the 1311 01:26:04.199 --> 01:26:07.880 ground not matching what the leadership has to say. And 1312 01:26:08.399 --> 01:26:13.760 it is also by design, keeping information from people and 1313 01:26:14.000 --> 01:26:16.279 framing things a certain way. And we saw that with 1314 01:26:16.319 --> 01:26:20.289 the attack on the base in Qatar where the internet 1315 01:26:20.310 --> 01:26:22.510 is cut off from Iran and they just declared victory. 1316 01:26:22.829 --> 01:26:23.850 And so I think it makes sense. 1317 01:26:23.880 --> 01:26:24.840 They destroyed the base. 1318 01:26:25.220 --> 01:26:27.300 Yeah, we need to like take a moment and think 1319 01:26:27.380 --> 01:26:31.720 about what information is actually reaching people before we just 1320 01:26:31.800 --> 01:26:34.180 assume that we disagree with them and this will be, 1321 01:26:34.619 --> 01:26:36.039 you know, a protracted battle forever. 1322 01:26:36.680 --> 01:26:39.060 And he, I think he very smartly said, you know, 1323 01:26:39.140 --> 01:26:40.659 and there are a lot of people there that are 1324 01:26:40.899 --> 01:26:46.460 grabbing VPNs or, you know, it's ways of bypassing. But 1325 01:26:46.539 --> 01:26:49.890 that is always going to be a narrower swath of 1326 01:26:49.949 --> 01:26:53.810 the people. And so we don't know the story that 1327 01:26:53.829 --> 01:26:56.369 they're being told. And by the way, before we get 1328 01:26:56.470 --> 01:26:59.069 too kind of high on ourselves, we're not sure the 1329 01:26:59.109 --> 01:27:00.130 story we're being told. 1330 01:27:00.350 --> 01:27:01.140 Oh, of course. 1331 01:27:01.479 --> 01:27:04.819 And, you know, it's been obliterate. They're done. It's over. 1332 01:27:05.640 --> 01:27:07.859 We had to do it. They were within days. They 1333 01:27:07.880 --> 01:27:11.800 were who the fuck knows anymore. Now we are we're 1334 01:27:11.920 --> 01:27:13.909 we're off next week. right? 1335 01:27:14.029 --> 01:27:14.989 Yes, we are. 1336 01:27:15.010 --> 01:27:17.109 A little celebration of America's birthday there. 1337 01:27:17.529 --> 01:27:19.270 Or Big Beautiful Bill, if that happens. 1338 01:27:19.810 --> 01:27:23.710 Oh, Christ. That's another one where watching them all have 1339 01:27:23.750 --> 01:27:27.729 to say that reminds me of whenever you call Disney 1340 01:27:27.989 --> 01:27:30.470 and they have to end every conversation with, and have 1341 01:27:30.550 --> 01:27:32.890 a beautiful Disney day or whatever the fuck they have. 1342 01:27:32.909 --> 01:27:34.069 Have a magical day. 1343 01:27:34.470 -->

01:27:37.810 Have a magical day. And when they say Big Beautiful Bill, 1344 01:27:37.890 --> 01:27:42.180 it feels like a hostage video at almost every turn. 1345 01:27:43.060 --> 01:27:47.199 Just ridiculous. But Brittany, let's answer the listeners before we 1346 01:27:47.220 --> 01:27:50.020 get going and then we'll head off into the sunset. 1347 01:27:50.460 --> 01:27:54.619 Sure thing. First up, we've got John. Do you think 1348 01:27:54.659 --> 01:27:56.939 Donald Trump should get the Nobel Peace Prize? 1349 01:27:57.939 --> 01:28:03.199 Sure. Kissinger got it. Why not? Whoever's got the bombs, 1350 01:28:03.239 --> 01:28:05.489 give them the prize. What the fuck does it even matter? 1351 01:28:07.149 --> 01:28:09.590 The idea that winning that is somehow.... 1352 01:28:10.359 --> 01:28:12.979 Means anything at this point there's a big cash prize 1353 01:28:13.039 --> 01:28:15.119 I think that's why he's into. 1354 01:28:14.619 --> 01:28:17.600 It why doesn't he just make his own he does 1355 01:28:17.640 --> 01:28:19.979 his own meme coin make his own do the Trump 1356 01:28:20.420 --> 01:28:23.699 peace prize award it to yourself and then have it 1357 01:28:23.739 --> 01:28:25.319 for the rest of the time you'd rather have it 1358 01:28:25.390 --> 01:28:26.630 that anyway. 1359 01:28:27.060 --> 01:28:30.050 That's such a solid prediction he's going. 1360 01:28:29.909 --> 01:28:33.850 To right the Trump prize will be given to whoever 1361 01:28:33.909 --> 01:28:36.689 it was that did the most towards world peace and 1362 01:28:36.710 --> 01:28:39.609 it turns out it's me oh my god I win 1363 01:28:39.649 --> 01:28:43.500 guys And they'll hold the reception at the Kennedy Center 1364 01:28:43.979 --> 01:28:48.800 where he runs it. It'll be perfect. And remember, he 1365 01:28:48.819 --> 01:28:50.560 said he was going to be a world class. I 1366 01:28:50.640 --> 01:28:54.159 don't remember what he said. Violinist, flautist, whatever it was 1367 01:28:54.199 --> 01:28:55.920 that he said. He was talking to somebody saying he 1368 01:28:56.359 --> 01:28:58.439 could have been world class in an instrument and he 1369 01:28:58.479 --> 01:29:01.800 can play the music. He's a one-man band. What do 1370 01:29:01.819 --> 01:29:02.810 we need anything else for? 1371 01:29:03.010 --> 01:29:03.949 He plays the flute? 1372 01:29:04.470 --> 01:29:05.029 Oh, I don't know. 1373 01:29:05.050 --> 01:29:07.609 He said something in an interview. Like, I could have been. 1374 01:29:07.850 --> 01:29:09.550 Oh, my brain just broke. 1375 01:29:09.590 --> 01:29:09.989 Sorry. 1376 01:29:10.010 --> 01:29:11.689 New Trump lore just dropped. 1377 01:29:12.189 --> 01:29:14.029 Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said he was in an interview 1378 01:29:14.090 --> 01:29:15.720 and he was saying to somebody he could have been 1379 01:29:15.729 --> 01:29:17.920 a world-class musician. 1380 01:29:18.460 --> 01:29:19.140 Could have been. 1381 01:29:19.220 --> 01:29:21.060 Whatever else. Yeah, he just decided. 1382 01:29:21.560 --> 01:29:21.939 Same. 1383 01:29:23.619 --> 01:29:27.310 Oh, how the world could have been different. What else 1384 01:29:27.319 --> 01:29:27.590 we got? 1385 01:29:28.000 --> 01:29:30.260 Next up, we've got, if you were stranded on an island, 1386 01:29:30.539 --> 01:29:32.050 Colbert or Corral? 1387 01:29:33.529 --> 01:29:37.210 Oh, that's easy. A boat. I would have a boat. 1388 01:29:37.989 --> 01:29:39.550 Why would I have, why would I have one of 1389 01:29:39.590 --> 01:29:43.930 those two knuckleheads who neither of us, by the way, that's, 1390 01:29:43.989 --> 01:29:46.989 that's not even a choice on an island. Like there's no, 1391 01:29:47.300 --> 01:29:50.319 there's not a survival skill amongst the three of us. 1392 01:29:51.220 --> 01:29:53.340 It wouldn't matter who you had on there. We'd all 1393 01:29:53.380 --> 01:29:58.020 be gone within three days. So I did none of 1394 01:29:58.109 --> 01:30:00.579 us a boat. I'd want a boat. 1395 01:30:00.619 --> 01:30:01.260 There we go. 1396 01:30:01.359 --> 01:30:04.500 For God's sakes. Uh, uh, but this is great. Uh, 1397 01:30:04.619 --> 01:30:09.130 I hope you guys have, uh, a great week off boy. 1398 01:30:09.149 --> 01:30:13.250 You guys have been fantastic and, uh, uh, give yourselves 1399 01:30:13.270 --> 01:30:16.300 a good time to decompress Brittany. What, what, how do 1400 01:30:16.310 --> 01:30:17.250 they keep in touch with us? 1401 01:30:17.859 --> 01:30:21.239 Twitter, we are Weekly Show Pod. Instagram, Threads, TikTok, Blue Sky, 1402 01:30:21.279 --> 01:30:23.659 we are Weekly Show Podcast. And you can like, subscribe, 1403 01:30:23.699 --> 01:30:25.770 and comment on our YouTube channel, The Weekly Show with 1404 01:30:25.810 --> 01:30:26.319 Jon Stewart. 1405 01:30:27.010 --> 01:30:31.329 Boom. Roasted. Lead producer, Lauren Walker. Producer, Brittany Mamedovic. Video 1406 01:30:31.350 --> 01:30:34.350 editor and engineer, Rob Vittal. Audio editor and engineer, Nicole Boyce. 1407 01:30:34.409 --> 01:30:37.329 Researcher and associate producer, Jillian Spear. And our executive producers, 1408 01:30:37.550 --> 01:30:40.470 Chris McShane, Katie Gray. Guys, have a wonderful week off. 1409 01:30:40.770 --> 01:30:42.029 We will see you all.... 1410 01:30:43.399 --> 01:30:44.060 The week after. 1411 01:30:44.439 --> 01:30:48.720 The week after, early July. Thanks so much and see 1412 01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:57.359 you next time. Bye-bye. The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart 1413 01:30:57.430 --> 01:31:01.010 is a Comedy Central podcast. It's produced by Paramount Audio 1414 01:31:01.250 --> 01:31:16.399 and Busboy Productions. Paramount Podcasts.