Transkrip penuh untuk Life under fire, shifting battle lines, and history’s role in Israel’s present conflicts

the children's generation and people growing up. 37 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:21.360 I could only imagine this getting this routine. Some of 38 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:23.840 my neighbors have young children, and I go to the 39 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:26.639 shelter and we have a communal shelter, and I see 40 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:29.400 their difficulty bringing their kids in the middle of the 41 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:33.000 night and their pajamas to the shelter. It's so tough, 42 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:33.599 so tough. 43 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:34.159 Yeah, no. 44 00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:39.039 I literally, just right before we started this recording, I 45 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:42.879 literally just did an interview with an organization that carried 46 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:46.960 out a study on the impact of two and a 47 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:51.319 half years of war on young children in different localities 48 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.280 on the northern border and also around the Gaza Strip 49 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:59.039 and building resilience programs for these young children. And I 50 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:02.039 said to them, you know, is Rallies are used to war, 51 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:04.960 like we know, since nineteen forty eight, is Raelies have 52 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:05.759 been dealing with war. 53 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:08.039 That's why we call them subras, because. 54 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:11.240 They're you know, tough on the outside and soft on 55 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:14.919 the inside, but they're used to this kind of you know, 56 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:18.240 this situation. And he said to me, this time it's 57 00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:21.759 completely different. We're dealing with a generation that went into 58 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:26.240 kindergarten during COVID so and every year over the last 59 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:30.479 five years since then, they've been dealing with some massive 60 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:34.120 upheaval in their lives, whether it was October seventh, whether 61 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:38.280 it was the Iranian the first round of fighting in 62 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:42.039 June where school ended abruptly for the whole year, and 63 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:43.919 now all the kids, like you said, have been out 64 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:48.520 of school for an entire month as we go into 65 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:53.960 the Passover holiday, and it doesn't look like, you know, 66 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:56.840 doesn't look like this is going to end anytime soon. 67 00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:58.439 I mean, it looks like we're going to be, at 68 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:01.800 least especially in parts of the country, going to be 69 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:03.680 carrying on for quite a while. 70 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.159 Absolutely, even if the Iran washing it end. You mentioned 71 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:09.240 some parts of the country, I think, especially to the 72 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:13.840 north of Israel, where they're really under fire. People fatalities 73 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.720 from the his Bowler rockets, and the government has said 74 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:19.839 that the end of the conflict with Iran does not 75 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:23.240 mean necessarily the end of the battle against his Buller, 76 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:26.040 which could continue and of course make life difficult for 77 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:28.319 people in the north. You know you're talking about. This 78 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:31.959 is something unlike anything else. The only point of comparison 79 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:36.839 that I have with this kind of is the first 80 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:39.519 war with Iraq, that what we call the First Gulf 81 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:44.720 War back in the beginning of the nineteen nineties, which 82 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:46.959 went on for a couple of months, and you know, 83 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:50.120 we had the scud rockets. By no means was it 84 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:53.920 as frequent as that. I think it was something like 85 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:57.199 in there of forty or fifty. But there were fatalities, 86 00:04:57.240 --> 00:04:59.439 a couple of fatalities, there was a lot of we 87 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:02.040 did have to go to the nuts shelters, the sealed 88 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:07.480 field rooms, because we thought mistakenly that either Saddam had 89 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:14.560 chemical weapons and he would use them, or he didn't 90 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:16.839 have them. We don't it's not even clear at this point. 91 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:19.759 But you know, I saw in that you had the 92 00:05:19.879 --> 00:05:24.439 new issue of the Jews Report. You have a piece 93 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:29.879 there by Nachman Shah, who was the army spokesperson during 94 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.879 that first Gulf War, and he became a very prominent 95 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:37.079 figure because of that. People used to call him the 96 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:42.279 national valuum because he would calm everybody down during these 97 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.480 air rates. First time, really first time that we had 98 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:51.839 national air rates, siren alerts and people experienced having to 99 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:56.399 take shelter nationally. And reading his piece, we should mention 100 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:58.879 his piece was about the role of the then defenseman. 101 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:02.040 Is the Mosha Aarons who was America. He was raised 102 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:04.839 in America, wasn't born there, but raised in America, came here. 103 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:07.040 He was the defense minister of the time. A lot 104 00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:09.720 of people in Israel and has certainly outside of Israel, 105 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:13.600 have forgotten about Mosha Aarons. He he was not charismatic 106 00:06:14.319 -->

00:06:17.879 in the way of a Mosha Diane or even a 107 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:21.759 Jitsak Rabin type early Ariel Sharon. He was not a 108 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:25.800 charismatic guy, but he was very efficient. And what Knakaman 109 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:28.319 Shai wrote about was that he was really the first 110 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:32.720 Israeli official to realize the importance of home front defense 111 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:36.560 from missile attacks and in fact, what we now call 112 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:40.399 peakud Orf in the IDF home Front Command that is 113 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:44.319 responsible for sending these alerts out and making sure everybody 114 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.639 is trying to be prepared. That is most Mosha Aarons 115 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:51.319 is created. That he created that from different bodies in 116 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:55.480 the army and in different authorities. And he's also one 117 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:59.519 of the real pioneers of missile defense, the arrow defense system, 118 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:01.759 and he was someone who was very concerned about that. 119 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:05.720 So just reading that, I was taking back to those 120 00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:09.480 days of those days of the First Golf War, and 121 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:13.920 it was quite similar a couple of months, but not 122 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:17.319 as intense as here. And I don't know, we'll have 123 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:19.839 to see if this goes on. 124 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:24.399 I mean, what I found most fascinating about that about 125 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:28.639 Nachmann Schai's article about Mosha Aaron's is that he recognized, 126 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:33.639 like if up until the nineties, the whole you know, Israel, 127 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:38.240 the IDF, or the whole philosophy of Israel's defense was 128 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:45.680 to take the war out of beyond Israel's borders, the war, yeah, yeah, preempted, 129 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:48.680 and also just make sure the fighting was happening beyond 130 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:52.680 the borders and not inside Israel. And that was the 131 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:56.279 turning point. And I found that very interesting. And the 132 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:58.759 other point that he makes in the article, which is 133 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:02.000 also very interesting, is that you know, for a long time, 134 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:04.920 the home Front Command was kind of seen as not 135 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:07.959 such a you know, high profile position in the army. 136 00:08:08.199 --> 00:08:11.839 And today, you know, senior commanders are fighting to take 137 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:14.680 over that unit. Young people want to be in the 138 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:18.839 you know, in the home Front Command because their job 139 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:23.240 is so important. They go out into the towns and 140 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:27.000 cities that have been hit by missiles or have been affected, 141 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:31.600 and they really help families and civilians. 142 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:32.480 That are going. 143 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:34.320 I mean, they also go all over the world and 144 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:37.120 we know they were in Turkey after the earthquake there, 145 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:40.440 they were in Haiti, and they it's really become a 146 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:44.200 very very important unit in the Israeli Army and I 147 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:46.120 found that very very interesting. 148 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:49.240 By the way, actually, just in the last hour from 149 00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:53.360 where we're when we're recording, there was an unexploded missile 150 00:08:53.399 --> 00:08:55.960 that landed in part of Jerusalem, and even so we're 151 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:57.919 supposed to say the name of it in central Israel 152 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:06.279 and these unexploded warheads or extremely become extremely dangerous. One 153 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:10.240 actually fell about a kilometer from my house, about about 154 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:14.039 a about a ten minute walk from my house. And yeah, 155 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:17.399 that's has become a huge job. One other thing, by 156 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:19.360 the way, in that article that I was thinking about, 157 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:24.759 Nachmun Shaw was really the first army spokesperson to become 158 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:27.320 a celebrity. Before it was just a role of people 159 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:29.759 someone who mainly dealt with journalists like us, like we 160 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:32.399 knew always who the Army spots journalists or who the 161 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:35.440 army spokesperson was, because we would we would work opposite that. 162 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.080 But that wasn't He didn't address the general public until 163 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:44.600 that first go for first Iraq war when Nachmun Shah, 164 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:47.519 I guess I said before became this sort of celebrity 165 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:51.360 and really set the standard for it. That has not 166 00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:56.039 been very equal. You know, I don't know about I 167 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:01.000 mean fie Deffer in the current the Hebrews speaking one, 168 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:03.600 it does the best he could. I'm not sure he's 169 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.399 up to has been effective, as some of his predecessors, 170 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:09.679 and I should say, and I don't like to speak 171 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.960 ill of the Army Spokesperson's office, my daughter served in it. 172 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:16.759 But the current uh Man Nadav Shoshani, who is currently 173 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:19.720 the international spokesperson the Army, you barely ever see him, 174 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:22.399 which I think unfortunately, I

have to go on records 175 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:25.279 say and I think that's a mistake, that that is 176 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:30.320 a role that should be addressing international media, ap peering 177 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:33.639 in international media talking about his new case, dispelling a 178 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:36.679 lot of these rumors. And there have been precedents for that. 179 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:43.399 Jonathan conrichis who writes the report, who writes for the 180 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.080 Grew Report, and who interviews a lot on media. I've 181 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:49.039 interviewed him even just a couple of weeks ago, and 182 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:52.799 who goes Piers Morgan and Defense and debunks a lot 183 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.600 of these crazy, crazy, I would even say, anti Semitic 184 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:01.759 influences and commentators, and you know he do. He was 185 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:05.360 during the during a post October seventh he played an 186 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:10.039 important role as then as this Army spokesperson for international media. 187 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:13.799 And i'm he's the current holder of that office, is 188 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:16.279 not is not fulfilling that role, and I think it's 189 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:19.200 a mistake and if he's hearing it, please get out there. 190 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:22.759 And and if you if you feel you can't do 191 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:25.919 that job, then the army should appoint someone officially. I 192 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:26.720 think that that can. 193 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:32.840 Yeah, no, it's a it's definitely an interesting article. And 194 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:36.320 uh and and I learned a lot from from from 195 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:41.000 that historical recounting of Mosha Aaron's role in in creating 196 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:41.960 the home Front command. 197 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:44.960 Right by the way, reading about that, Mosha Aaron's one 198 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:50.639 of the most high profile American immigrants to Israel. I 199 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:55.120 mean him and golda mayor where they probably two sort 200 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:59.159 of senior figures in Israeli politics who came Neither I 201 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.200 think born in him, but they were both raised in 202 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:03.639 America and this it was from there that they came here. 203 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:05.919 And the extra spoke Hebrew kind of with a little 204 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:11.840 bit like not like may terrible, but they're better even 205 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:14.279 than me with the accent. But they did. But we 206 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:18.279 have a tragedy today reported we should mention of a 207 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:23.320 young man, Moshkatz, who was a long soldier, came from Connecticut, 208 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:27.279 I believe grew up in a Kabad community and he 209 00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:30.320 is unfortunately the latest casualty in the Lebanon War. And 210 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:32.720 that that I think a lot of people in Israel 211 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:35.600 now are turning their focus really from Iran to the 212 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:38.120 situation in Lebanon. Ruth that's really becoming. 213 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:42.200 Yeah, I think you know, there's this past the past week, 214 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:46.120 there's been mass call up of soldiers for the North, 215 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:50.639 and so I think many families have been affected directly 216 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.399 by that because they're seeing their children or they're seeing 217 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:56.960 people that they know are being called up and sent 218 00:12:57.080 --> 00:13:00.639 into Lebanon. And even and I think you mentioned earlier, 219 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:04.679 even if the fighting in Iran, even if Trump does 220 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:08.279 declare a ceasefire or victory or whatever it is he's 221 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:11.879 going to declare, which some people are predicting, the battle 222 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:15.919 in Lebanon against Hesbalah is going to continue on because 223 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.120 really the situation in northern Israel, within a roughly thirty 224 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:25.159 kilometer radius from the border has become unlivable. The communities there, 225 00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:29.960 the you know, the kibbutzim and the moshavim, and also 226 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:34.120 some towns and cities that are along that northern border 227 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:39.720 are not impossible for people to stay there while you know, 228 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:42.480 there's constant rocket fire. And this has been something I mean, 229 00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:44.600 you talk about the nineties in the Gulf War. This 230 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:47.960 has been going on since the eighties, the same thing. 231 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.519 Yeah, because a lot of those homes, you know, supposedly 232 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:55.679 now that people there have something like fifteen seconds to 233 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:57.919 get to a shelter, So if that's not in your house, 234 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.279 you're not going to get there. And many of those 235 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:04.399 homes in those communities for example, like he bought miss 236 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:09.799 Gavam where this gentleman was killed, sixty year old Boartsnak 237 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:13.960 veteran member of the keyboards was killed. If it's not 238 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.080 if you do not have a protected room in your house, 239 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:18.399 you really don't have time to get to a shelter. 240 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.480 And that's inexcusable because as we've just been talking about, 241 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:27.240 this whole situation with the first Golf War was now 242

00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:31.159 like thirty five six more than that, like thirty six 243 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.720 years ago. Thirty five years ago, that should have been 244 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.519 enough time to provide those people living in the Northern 245 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:39.039 border communities with a safe room in their homes. 246 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.279 Yeah, well, I mean we know, I mean I don't 247 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:44.200 know if our listeners know this, but since the Golf War, 248 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.000 and that's another thing to talk about, buildings that are 249 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:51.000 built since nineteen ninety one have to have a safe 250 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:54.480 room am Mud. But the buildings that were built before that, 251 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:57.440 many of them don't. So that that's why in central 252 00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.440 Tel Aviv, which is kind of an older area in 253 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:04.519 central to them, people have shelters, public shelters or building 254 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:08.240 shelters in the building or nearby. And newer buildings in 255 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:11.840 Israel all have safe rooms, all these you know, fortified 256 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.200 rooms that can withhold missile fire. I mean, the truth is, Kleev, 257 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.440 did I mean, did you ever think we would be 258 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.960 in this situation? I mean I remember many times walking 259 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:24.120 past bomb shelters in my neighborhood thinking who would ever 260 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:26.320 need that? But you know, here we are, we do 261 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:26.879 need it. 262 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:30.320 And I watching with a clarification though, and even in 263 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.240 those buildings past ninety nine, a lot of them were 264 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:36.080 built that as long as you have a shelter in 265 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:39.159 the building, you don't need to build a safe room. 266 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:42.200 The problem is, and that's for example, I live in 267 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:45.159 a multi family home, not an apartment building, but a 268 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.080 multi family home where there is a joined shelter. But 269 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:51.320 it's pretty accessible. We can get there within fifteen seconds 270 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:53.600 if need be. But you know, a lot of these 271 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.639 people live in multi story buildings without elevators. They have 272 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.200 to my neighbors, they have to go down say three 273 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:03.879 four flights steps. You know, old people, older people, people 274 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:06.759 with more kids, especially with more than one young kid, 275 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:09.919 it's very difficult for them, and some of them. I 276 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.559 think we had

a case where where an older couple 277 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:17.200 living in a building, they had a shelter downstairs, but 278 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:20.320 they couldn't do the three four flights of stairs in 279 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:23.600 time and they ended up being killed in one instant. 280 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.759 So it's even though even the homes built since nineteen 281 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.600 ninety there have been there were some flaws in it. 282 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.360 And about your question, No, did not think we'd be 283 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:35.240 in the situation for the very reason you talked about earlier, Ruth, 284 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:38.639 which was the always belief that the IDF would be 285 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:44.080 able to either preempt this kind of situation against Israel 286 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:48.240 or be able to take it to the enemy. And 287 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:49.840 this is a bit of a wake up call. I mean, 288 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:54.200 every day we hear seventy percent of the Iranian launchers 289 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:56.879 have been destroyed, eighty percent of the Iranian launchers have 290 00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:59.519 been destroyed, ninety percent of the first of all, as 291 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:01.200 long as they have US one launcher and they keep 292 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:04.400 using it, they can still do it. But I'm a 293 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:07.680 little skeptical of some of these figures because you know, 294 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:09.920 we're getting it, and you mentioned look at how look 295 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:12.240 at all the attacks on the golfs they're getting in 296 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:16.319 the golf States. The UAE Kuwait just had a major 297 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:21.079 attack the Sally's. So no, I think there's zeppel an 298 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:24.720 under estimation of what the Iranians had and their ability 299 00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.680 to protect or hide what they have. 300 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:30.839 I mean, I also think that's the same case for 301 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:35.240 Hesbellah in Lebanon, because we're also told let Hesbella is destroyed. 302 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:38.720 We killed Hassan Nasralla, the leader of the of Hesbela, 303 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:43.480 so now they're very weakened. We've destroyed all their factories 304 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:47.000 and their command and control centers. We've driven them back 305 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.799 to the Litani River. Well, obviously they have missiles or 306 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:54.240 rockets that can go further, longer distances, and they can 307 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.720 reach the communities even up to Hypher, even up to 308 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:01.880 Tel Aviv. So you know, it's it's still still very 309 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:06.519 unclear maybe you know how much they have and whether 310 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:09.119 this fighting is

even going to solve the problem. 311 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:10.680 I mean, it doesn't. 312 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:14.359 I mean there's also two articles in the report which 313 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:18.960 talk about Hesbala and how embedded Hesbella is in Lebanese society, 314 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:24.680 how it also functions as a social welfare organization providing 315 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:29.839 schools and support for poor families in certain areas of Lebanon. 316 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:35.039 Journalists who are afraid to speak out against Hesbella. So 317 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:38.559 you know, it's I think it's much more complicated than 318 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:42.240 the picture that our leaders here have tried to paint 319 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:43.799 up until now. 320 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:45.319 And I, like you said, I. 321 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.920 Do believe this is this could continue on for much 322 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:51.200 longer than we initially expected. 323 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:55.000 Right. I have read those articles especially, I really pressed 324 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.200 the one Dana ben Shimone, I believe who spoke who 325 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:03.119 spoke with someone in Lebanon. A journalist obviously has to 326 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:07.119 remain anonymous because he's speaking to an Israeli publication describing, 327 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.480 as you said, the way his Bolla has kind of 328 00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:14.640 infiltrated basically every aspect of Lebanese society, not just as 329 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:18.079 a military force, but as a social welfare agent. It's 330 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:21.960 political agent. Media, it has its own media, and we 331 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:26.440 saw of course the idef killing what it says was 332 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:30.559 basically his Bolla activists operating under the guise of journalists. 333 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:34.920 And there's plenty of evidence to support that. But at 334 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:36.880 the same time, I guess, if you want to look 335 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.079 on a brighter side of this, heretical. I mean, this 336 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:46.160 gentleman who's speaking to her is expressing a real change 337 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:51.079 in attitude at least among some people in Lebanon towards 338 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:56.359 his Bola. And the question is whether this government in Israel, 339 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:01.720 or future governments or the international community, the US but 340 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:04.000 also some other countries like France, are going to able 341 00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:09.599 to capitalize on those feelings within Lebanon to create a 342 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:13.359 some kind of mechanism or force that's going to give 343 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:16.480 the Lebanese government the chance to finally carry through on 344 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:19.640 their pledge which they haven't carried out that they made 345 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.599 last November of disarmy Hammas that was part of the 346 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:30.480 peace agreement. Yeah, I'm sorry, Hebala, that's an agreement about disarmy. 347 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:32.279 Let's focus on Lebanon exactly. 348 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.759 Hisbala definitely, And it's I mean, you know, I was 349 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:38.079 up in the in the northern communities a year ago, 350 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:42.400 just after the ceasefire. People were slowly moving back. I mean, 351 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:45.559 they were happy to go back, but they and they 352 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.920 did have this feeling that you know, maybe maybe the 353 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.839 problem was solved, maybe there was some hope for the 354 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.920 future up there. And you know, just going back to 355 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:58.759 the whole, you know, our conversation about shelters, I think 356 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:02.440 what's fascinated me most is, you know, hearing from these 357 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:04.839 people in these northern communities, like you say, they have 358 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:08.279 fifteen seconds, less than fifteen seconds to get into their shelters. 359 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:10.319 And there was one interview. 360 00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:13.240 On Israeli news this week with a family and the 361 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:15.759 mother said, you know, we just we don't even take 362 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:18.759 a chance. We just spend our whole time in a shelter. 363 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:22.440 And you know, that was just mind boggling. I mean, 364 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:25.279 how can you live your whole life in a shelter. 365 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:27.839 You can't go out on the roads, you can't go 366 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:31.400 to the supermarket, you can't do everyday things. You can't 367 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.799 even see sunlight because you don't know when there's going 368 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.599 to be rocket fire and whether you're making in time 369 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:37.440 into your shelter. 370 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.920 By the way, maybe last thing I'll say about this 371 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.200 is raising the North that people have to remember not 372 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.880 so long ago, during the post October seventh period, the 373 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:51.480 government did evacuate communities from the north like Cary, Stremon 374 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:56.759 and musav Many. Most almost all the communities that are 375 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:02.119 adjacent to the border that hasn't happened. In fact, Prime 376 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:06.279 Minister natiny Now reportedly told local mayors and regional council 377 00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:09.759 heads they should discourage. Oh, Ruth, We're going to have 378 00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:11.559 to take a break. I'm going

to just show our 379 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:18.559 viewers we are getting an alert here. Well, we'll keep talking. Well, 380 00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:19.680 what's happen. 381 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:21.920 We can keep talking till there's a siren. 382 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:28.319 Ships just want to just leave it on, okay, because 383 00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:30.480 she's in ramat guns so she doesn't have a shelter. 384 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:34.880 Just to go better illustration there someone who is. 385 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:37.400 Not in a partectable I didn't want to say while 386 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:38.200 we were talking. 387 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:40.400 I mean where I live is very high up and 388 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:44.279 I hear everything, and I think there's also it's very 389 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:46.039 high up and we can hear everything. And there was 390 00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:48.839 just as we were talking, there was a missile in 391 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:51.720 another area of Israel, and I heard the booms. 392 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:52.960 I didn't get a siren, but. 393 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:58.160 I heard the arrow or iron dome in action for 394 00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:02.200 shooting down that missile, So it wasn't It wasn't a siren, 395 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:04.960 but it was definitely a louder By the way. 396 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.160 I also the same experience. I had the same experience. 397 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:09.799 I'm in a part of Jerusalem actually on the other 398 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.720 side of Jerusalem from you, but I did not have 399 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:18.720 an actual siren. But yes, we hear the booms quite loudly, 400 00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:23.160 and there's always the danger and drewsom we're not directly targeted, 401 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:27.039 usually by Iran, but there's serious danger of either getting 402 00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:29.880 a fragment. And when I say fragments, it sounds little. 403 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:32.359 Some of those fragments are the size of a small 404 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:36.960 house or unexploded warheads from especially these multiple wards. So 405 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:40.799 we'll our producer who, as we were saying, just illustrating 406 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:44.119 our issue on this podcast, she's in another location and 407 00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:46.319 she does not have a shelter right by, so she 408 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:51.160 has to go preemptively into a shelter. We'll just keep 409 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.000 talking and wait and see if we do hear the 410 00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:56.960 sirens this time, and if not hear the booms. But 411 00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:58.960 this is the this is the what life is. This 412 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:03.200 is what it's been for the past month. It's you know, 413 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:06.880 life interrupted, I think is the expression. I mean, we're living, 414 00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:11.559 We're living, We're living between these alerts and these the sirens. 415 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.759 And meanwhile, while all of this is going on, while 416 00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.160 we are continuing on with life, there's other things that 417 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:20.720 are continuing on kind of under the radar, or maybe 418 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:24.240 not even under the radar anymore, in other areas of 419 00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:26.880 conflict in the West Bank or in Judaei and Samarios. 420 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:30.440 Some people refer to it that the tensions there between 421 00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:35.559 Israeli settlers or Israeli citizens and Palestinians is ongoing. 422 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:37.519 And you know, whether. 423 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:41.119 Your new issue or the Jewisal Report is covers that 424 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.839 extensively from one particular I think fascinating angle. Maybe talk 425 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:50.920 about that which is the which is from the archaeological perspective, 426 00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:54.119 which sounds very academic, but it's really a battle not 427 00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:56.920 just over the past of the West Bank, but over 428 00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:59.240 its future. Maybe talk all about the Yah. 429 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:01.559 I mean, I think I think what's interesting. I mean this, 430 00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:03.960 you know, the tensions in the West Bank, which would 431 00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:07.920 normally be headline news around the world, are kind of 432 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.359 sidelined because of the war with Iran, but they are 433 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:14.559 ongoing every single day. And I decided for this edition 434 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:17.319 of the report to look at it from an archaeological 435 00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:21.000 perspective because I found it very fascinating that one of 436 00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:25.039 the aspects that's being supported and even promoted by this 437 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:31.759 government is archaeological digs or the you know, uncovering of 438 00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:35.039 archaeological sites, which are everywhere all across the I mean 439 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:37.960 they're all across the Holy Land, and they're all across 440 00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:41.279 the West Bank. And for the last forty years or so, 441 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.039 since or since nineteen sixty seven anyway, or maybe since 442 00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:50.920 the nineteen eighties, let's say, the effort to uncover archaeological 443 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:54.519 sites in the West Bank territory in Judaean and Samaria 444 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:58.240 have kind of been on hold because of the political 445 00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:03.000 uncertainty or the disagree reman over who that land belongs to. 446 00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:05.279 Have been on hold. 447 00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:09.759 Archaeologists have been reluctant to excavate. There have

been reluctant 448 00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:15.319 to uncover stuff. But because of changes in the Israeli leadership, 449 00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:20.160 changes in Israeli society, maybe some archaeologists have come forward 450 00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:24.440 and they've started excavating. They've been given financial support from 451 00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:30.039 this government to go ahead and excavate different various sites 452 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:34.200 that were kind of known about but hadn't been hadn't 453 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:35.960 been really examined. 454 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.799 Let's point out known about what they've written about in 455 00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:40.160 the Hebrew Bible. 456 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:42.400 I mean, no, there was also a survey in the 457 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:46.640 nineteen seventies. I think in the nineteen seventies, after nineteen 458 00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:49.240 sixty seven, there was a survey that mapped out the 459 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:55.200 whole territory and basically pinpointed where all the archaeological sites were. 460 00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:57.880 We are about to get a siren, so. 461 00:26:58.599 --> 00:27:01.480 Okay, well let's I'm going to stay. As soon as 462 00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:03.160 I hear the siren, I'm going to get up. But 463 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.000 if we'll have to edit it, we keep going. 464 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:11.200 I have one in my house anyway, so you know these. 465 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:14.480 Unfortunately, I will have to go downstairs to my shelter. 466 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.119 But I am. I am waiting, but I'll wait until 467 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:21.000 you are. Our listeners and viewers can hear that siren 468 00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:23.279 ring out. I don't have it yet. I see it 469 00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:25.680 getting another alert and get this is what life is. 470 00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:27.640 But let's keep going. Let's keep going. 471 00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:31.240 Well, you know they've been given uh you know, these 472 00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:34.200 areas were mapped out and the sites were known about. 473 00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:35.519 I mean you can see them anyway. 474 00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:38.160 You can see little parts of you know, ruins all 475 00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:40.720 over all over that territory. 476 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:43.319 So it's not like they were hidden. They were they 477 00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:44.079 were there, but they. 478 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:47.000 Hadn't been excavated. They hadn't been identified. They hadn't been 479 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:51.720 you know, they hadn't had their historical you know, a couple. 480 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:53.559 Of a couple of sites have been, but be're right, 481 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:55.279 for the vast majority have not been. 482 00:27:55.960 --> 00:28:01.680 So they were basically left untouched by oologists. But I 483 00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:05.359 think another issue that raised that I raised it, that 484 00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:08.559 was raised in the articles that were in the report 485 00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.920 is that many of them were vandalized or you know, 486 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:15.400 misused and were not being taken care of, which is 487 00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:18.880 the argument of why they need to be excavated and 488 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:22.960 protected and you know, kind of identified properly so that 489 00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:26.079 they can be protected for the future. And you know, 490 00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:29.480 that just goes back to the whole the whole point 491 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:31.839 of this is that if you know your history, if 492 00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:34.359 you can prove your history, then you can prove the future. 493 00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:39.079 And it kind of strengthens the debate over this land 494 00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:41.160 and who it belongs to and who should have it 495 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:43.720 and who it should you know, who should be living there. 496 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:45.880 Let's say, which. 497 00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:50.680 I think your your article, which is fascinating as a 498 00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:53.759 great illustration how several things can be true at once. 499 00:28:56.200 --> 00:29:00.359 It's true what we call the nash Can because the 500 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.240 West Bank in Israel, we say Juday and Samaria is 501 00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:09.599 the historical heartland of the ancient Jewish state of Judea 502 00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:13.920 and ancient Israel. Places like Shiloh, which actually was in 503 00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:17.200 a way sort of the spiritual religious capital that's in 504 00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:21.920 the northern West Bank or Samaria during the before Jerusalem 505 00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:26.039 pre dates Jerusalem Spiritual and many of the other sites, 506 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:29.839 and those sites have been, as you said, haven't gotten 507 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:33.240 the kind of archaeological attention they had deserved in the 508 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:38.640 past because of political reasons. They have been vandalized and 509 00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:44.359 in sometimes just for profit what we might call archaeological robbery, 510 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:50.000 artifact robbery, but also Palestinians sometimes have vandalized them for 511 00:29:50.039 --> 00:29:52.920 political purpose to try to erase the Jewish history there. 512 00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:55.920 So that's factual. On the other hand, we have a 513 00:29:55.960 --> 00:30:00.920 government that the current government that does isn't support of retaining, 514 00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:04.559 if not annexing the West Bank to day in Samaria. 515 00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:07.960 And yeah, so they for them, and you have an 516 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:12.839 interview with the minister it was in charge basically of 517 00:30:12.839 -->

00:30:17.720 these archaeological excavations that does see it as part of 518 00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:19.160 his political mission. Grouth. 519 00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:23.880 Yeah, I mean he Minister Amikhaieliahu. I mean he spoke 520 00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:27.000 about it very clearly with me about how this is, 521 00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:30.880 you know, this is the way to stake Jewish claim 522 00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:34.160 to that land and to keep it in Jewish hands forever. 523 00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:36.200 And you know, you mentioned annexation. 524 00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:39.599 And you know whereas one time we thought the government 525 00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:44.000 would declare annexation, we had Nataniahu even declare it or 526 00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:46.079 say it was going to declare it in twenty twenty, 527 00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:48.160 and then he kind of backed down because of the 528 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:51.240 Abraham Accords. Now there doesn't seem like there's going to 529 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:54.599 be a declaration. It just seems like it's happening step 530 00:30:54.599 --> 00:30:55.200 by step. 531 00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:56.720 You know. One of my. 532 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.279 Previous editions of the report looked at the growth of 533 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:05.279 small communities of settler farms all across the West Bank, 534 00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:09.839 and this edition looks at how the archaeological sites which 535 00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:14.720 not only prove Jewish history or biblical history in that area, 536 00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:18.920 but will also become you know, like you know, tourist sites, 537 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:23.400 tourism sites, so all of those things, you know, make 538 00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:28.319 make a territory part of a country. They build the 539 00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:32.400 narrative and the history of that country and and the 540 00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:35.960 you know, this current government is moving full steam ahead 541 00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:37.920 with that even as you know, and we also have 542 00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:41.880 an article in there about Palestinian the Palestinian authority which 543 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.920 is also trying to stake claim to certain sites in Jericho, 544 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:53.039 in Hebron, Bethlehem, and in other places in the West Bank, 545 00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:57.440 to to stake their claim to their historical claims to 546 00:31:57.480 --> 00:31:58.279 that land as well. 547 00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:00.640 So, I mean, I find it fascinating. 548 00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:03.920 I just want to update our listeners. There was an 549 00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:08.279 alert in Jerusalem, but it is not in apparently our 550 00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:10.519 part of Jerusalem. The sirens, I did not hear the 551 00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:14.559 sirens heard the boom, so I guess the missiles it 552 00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:16.559 was a close myss, but they haven't come to it. 553 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:21.039 We'll keep you posted on that. Absolutely on everything you said. 554 00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:25.279 And you know, sometimes again more than one thing can 555 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:28.400 be true at once. And the fact that the Jewish 556 00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.359 people and in the mind state of visual may have 557 00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:33.759 a historical claim to the territory of the West Bank 558 00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:37.160 and jude and Samaria. At the same time there are Palestinians. 559 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:41.920 There is an Arab history that goes back certainly to 560 00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:45.240 the Arab conquest of Jerusalem in the eighth century a d. 561 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:49.559 And there are Arab sites historical sites that also have 562 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:52.480 to be excavated, and Palestinians that have lived there for 563 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:57.839 centuries just as well, it's not the archaeological argument won't 564 00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:01.920 settle the political issues there. And also we have to 565 00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:08.599 say there is there is both ongoing Palestinian terrorism in 566 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:13.599 Israeli was killed just I believe last week what is 567 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:16.839 believed to have been a ramming accident excuse me, no 568 00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:21.200 ramming attack for sure, and maybe was REPORTEDS, but it 569 00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:23.440 looks like a terror attack. At the same time, there 570 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:30.400 are actions by extremists in the Israeli extremists in in 571 00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:35.279 ju Day and Samaria UH, and unfortunately that makes international news. 572 00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:38.559 We just saw a CNN crew that actually was attacked 573 00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:43.160 by case soldiers who were violating their army discipline in 574 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:45.960 the military's apologized for that incentive, which is very unusual. 575 00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.400 And these things don't help Israel. They don't help Israel. 576 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:55.640 And it's claims it's it's it's claim for maintaining control 577 00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:58.519 that it undermines. In my view, I speak of someone who, 578 00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:01.400 by the way, did twelve years of Army reserve duty 579 00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:04.599 in the West inter Day, Samario, the West Bank UH 580 00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:10.719 and that kind of behavior undermines Israel's authority over that 581 00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:13.880 that area. So that should be condemned as well. But 582 00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:17.599 these it's not Nothing is simple here, and the two 583 00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:20.920 things can be it can be true at the same time. 584 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:24.599 And it's just fascinating to see how, especially how you 585 00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:27.159 you present that in the rapport through the

through that 586 00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:30.239 lens of achaeo archaeology, looking from the past to the 587 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:36.039 potentially the future. Well, we made it. It looks like 588 00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:42.079 we made it through. You know, we have coming up 589 00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:45.800 into the Passover holiday. We're just a few days before 590 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:50.880 the Pessach, what we call Passover a pessa holiday. Ruth. 591 00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:54.199 By the way, the archaeology is big archaeological argument. There 592 00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:58.159 is always is there any evidence to show that they're 593 00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:02.239 in ancient Egypt? For example, was this mass revolt or 594 00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:08.199 migration of Jewish slaves from Egypt cross Sinai into ancient Israel. Unfortunately, 595 00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:13.679 I have to report there really isn't uh direct archeological 596 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:17.199 evidence supporting at least how it's presented in in in 597 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:21.039 the Hebrew Bible, in the in the in the Torah. There, 598 00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:25.519 even though there are some very intriguing elements the story 599 00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:28.400 of Passover, the of the of the exodus from Egypt, 600 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:33.880 mentions historical Egyptian historical figures, like Ramsey's a pharaoh of 601 00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:38.800 that time. UH named several of the names in the 602 00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:43.440 in the in the story of Passover, particularly Moses or 603 00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:47.599 Moschet actually is more of an Egyptian name Uh, even 604 00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:50.360 though people try to put a Hebrew spin on it. UH. 605 00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:54.360 So there is some some indications that they're somehow originated. 606 00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:59.360 You know, Judaism did have some roots in ancient Egypt 607 00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:02.519 or in the period when ancient the Egypt of the 608 00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:06.320 Pharaohs conquered the Holy Land, and of course the whole 609 00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.480 story of Jews coming out of Egypt into Israel. The 610 00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:14.519 irony is that as we're talking, there are thousands, if 611 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:16.760 not more than tens of thousands of Israelis who are 612 00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:21.400 trying to get from Israel back into Egypt because they 613 00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:26.880 want to fly out of Israel for either personal reasons 614 00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:29.639 people who are studying here, or people who live here 615 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:31.679 want to go abroad and see their families, or some 616 00:36:31.719 --> 00:36:33.199 people just want to get out of Israel for the 617 00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:35.760 very reasons we've been talking about, and they can't get 618 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:37.840 a flight. There's only one flight an hour out of 619 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:42.119 Benuin Airport, So thousands of people are trying to get 620 00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:46.800 through the Taba border crossing down south into Egypt and 621 00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:49.679 then get from there take a you go down to 622 00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.599 Charmel Schech where there's an international airport in the Sainay 623 00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:55.920 and fly out. So it looks like a lot in 624 00:36:55.960 --> 00:37:00.840 this pass over Ruth, it's more about is really strying 625 00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:01.880 to get it into Egypt. 626 00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:06.599 It's going the opposite way. 627 00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:06.719 Now. 628 00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:08.760 I think there's also many people who are coming back 629 00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:09.519 that way as well. 630 00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:12.480 I keep seeing stories about people who are trying to 631 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:14.719 get who well anyway, over the last month who've been 632 00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:17.599 trying to get back into Israel and they've been flying 633 00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:20.280 via Charmel Chek or even via Taba, which has a 634 00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:23.480 very small airport which I believe that Israel built when 635 00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:26.760 it controlled the Signi before it returned it during the 636 00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:31.119 peace still with Egypt. So yeah, people are making that 637 00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:36.480 same track that our ancestors did in the Bible. 638 00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:40.679 They are you know, what do we of course with 639 00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:43.199 what do we say at the end of the passover sator? 640 00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:45.320 What is the expression that we always say? 641 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:46.800 What do we say next year? 642 00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:54.920 In Jerusalem and Abyushalayam? People say, I do hope, of course, 643 00:37:55.599 --> 00:38:00.519 unless we have other plans, we'll be here, you know, 644 00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:03.119 with a tradition, sometimes you should say maybe next year 645 00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:05.920 and rebuilt Jerusalem. If you're if you you know you're 646 00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:09.599 going to be here. But I do hope our viewers 647 00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:12.400 and our listeners maybe well, I hope perhaps they'll have 648 00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:15.840 the opportunity to join us here in Jerusalem bishon bob 649 00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:20.000 ushalayam next year or in a in a Jerusalem. That 650 00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.800 is a rag guitar quieter. 651 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:25.559 What I was going to say next year in peace 652 00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:27.599 in Jerusalem. That's what we need to add in. 653 00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:30.320 Now okay, that it is the city, it is the 654 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:35.239 city of hopeful, hopeful of peace. Ruth. It's been great 655 00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.159 being with you. We made it through a potential siren 656 00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:43.280 here and thank you to you and all our viewers 657 00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:46.199 and listeners here on the Jerusalem Dispatch. 658 00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:48.159 Yep, thank you and Huxomer 659 00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:55.480 H