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Welcome to the Cabrera Lab podcast.
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Hey.
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Hey.
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How are you?
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Super duper cala fragilistic.
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Expialidocious.
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Expialidocious.
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You can't cut it off.
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You gotta finish if you're gonna start there, right?
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Yeah.
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Well that's good.
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I'm glad that that's that's the case.
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Yep.
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I like it when you're super duper.
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There are a lot of things on our mind today.
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And one of the things I really wanted to hone in on because it's born of real life, is it's gonna sound really abstract in the beginning, and then I'm gonna give you a very practical example.
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Okay.
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Is this idea of missing the patterns of our behavior by focusing on the instances or the instantiations of our behavior?
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And how this comes up, and I have a great real life example I know all of us can relate to, especially if we have iPhones and teenagers.
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Yeah.
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You know, there was a moment where you said to one of our kids, Hey, you're always on your phone when we're having family time.
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And the response was well, I wasn't just now, like in the last minute, right?
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Because literally they took the time to look up and answer you, and you said, But I'm not on it right now.
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Yeah.
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That's a bit of a a simple example.
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There's a really important principle underneath it.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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Which is how we avoid feedback about the patterns of things we're doing by arguing the instantiation.
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Yeah, the instance.
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And the cost of that.
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So I wanted to talk about that a little bit.
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I mean, this is a meaty one because it's the basis of like human development, it's the basis of uh organizational development.
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All development basically reduces down to this kind of thing.
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And, you know, all of therapy, you know, uh recognizing patterns.
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Really all of science is recognizing patterns.
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It's the classic example of like, you know, there there's there's some scientific result that says X causes Y or something like that, and then somebody says, Well, I knew somebody that you know smoked and didn't get cancer, and you're like, yeah, that's an instance, but it's not the pattern.
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Yes.
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So maybe one of the questions is that's called the anecdotal reasoning.
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Yeah, right.
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Right?
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Where you're just like, I I know of a one situation where that that defies that statement.
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And there's a little confirmation bias in there, too.
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But I guess to me it seems like at times it's almost a knee-jerk reaction or almost a reflex.
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You know, it's it's a very defense mechanism.
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It's like a defense mechanism.
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And I guess what I'm wondering is what is causing that to be our default mode, which is to push back on that instance and not think deeper about it.
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Well, that's a different that's a different take.
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Like, what is the cause?
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Uh the cause could be a bunch of things, but usually you're talking about in like um psychology or well, it could be in psychology or even just the simple conversation around the phone.
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Like why is why why are we as humans more likely to be sort of defensive to the moment than you know, what do we gain from being defensive in that moment is that we don't see the pattern.
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Is that a that's not a net gain?
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Well, it is if if you think about think about the term defensive, right?
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So why would someone be defensive?
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It's because they're trying to protect something.
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Yes.
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And usually they're trying to protect some need that they have, right?
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So if you're afraid of being wrong, for example, that's a big one.
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A lot of people, maybe because of the way they were raised or whatever, they, you know, have had bad experiences with being wrong.
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When they're wrong, they feel embarrassed, or when they're wrong, they're punished, or when they're wrong, they're something, right?
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So what they learn is don't be wrong.
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And but the problem is that in life we're wrong a lot.
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And so it's just statistically improbable that you're gonna not be wrong.
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Right.
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So then the defense mechanism is when you're wrong, cover it up.
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Defend against anybody discovering that you were wrong.
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Whereas my strategy is kind of like, I'm wrong all the time.
Load full transcript
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Like I'm literally more wrong than I am right.
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Like, and and for almost all humans, that is true.
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I mean, I would say uh I I never like to say all, but I in this case I would say all.
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All humans are wrong all the time.
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Yes.
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And what I mean by that is you're never fully right because the the universe, the systems that you're in are much more complex than any of your mental models are going to be.
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You're not gonna capture everything.
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Right.
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So you're wrong and right in percentages.
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You're you you could be even 80% right, and you're still 20% wrong.
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Yeah.
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We want everyone in the world on the path to pro.
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White belt, yellow belt, blue belt, landing in the PST credential.
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The professional systems thinker credential.
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And that's not just personal, it's also part of a wider vision of 8 billion systems thinkers above the standard, which is the professional systems thinker or PST.
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Count yourself into it and let's change ourselves.
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And when we change ourselves, we change the world.
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There's some part of your thinking that's wrong about everything.
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And so if you start with that premise, then you realize that being wrong is the natural condition.
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And it doesn't have so much loaded so many, you know, yeah.
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Who's not wrong?
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You know, we're all wrong about something, and we're all wrong most of the time.
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Like if we really get to the technical details.
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I mean, you you discover this in science.
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You get a tremendous humility.
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In fact, I I believe in many cases the best doctoral advisors are the ones who understand that getting a PhD is just about creating humility, which might not seem like it when you meet people with PhDs, but it really is about scientific humility.
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It's like you could do the most bang-up study with the all the controls and all the variables and all that, and and you could think of everything, there's still something wrong with that study.
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It could be published in the best journals.
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There's not a single study that you can't find something wrong with.
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Yes.
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Because you can't boil the ocean.
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You know, you do
you you you're you're by definition taking a chunk of reality and measuring it.
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And and in order to the more you want to refine the measurement, the smaller you have to get.
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Right.
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You're wrong about everything that lies outside of that.
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You're wrong about how that thing you might be right about how X causes Y in this very limited context, but when you go to a larger context, X might not simply cause Y.
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X might be have other factors and things like that.
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So being wrong is just something that we should get comfortable with.
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Right, because accepting that there's some room for improvement is the way that you grow.
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It's literally how you become amazing.
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In fact, the more you can accept that you're wrong, the righter you'll be in life.
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That's a paradox that is very strange.
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Yeah.
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And that people sort of, I think, would find like, how does that work?
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But a big part of why I think I uh know some of the things I know today is because I've just I've messed up so many times, and my principle is learning.
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You know, like you can you can mess up, but you can't mess up and not learn.
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Yes.
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That's the key.
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Because if you mess up, it's a cost.
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But if you mess up and don't learn, then it's a cost that you got nothing for.
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Right.
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Nothing in return.
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There was no benefit.
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So it's all loss.
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If you have that mess up of that loss and you learn, then it's a terrific uh return on investment for the mess up.
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And if you multiply that times every day for 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, pretty soon you have what we sometimes call wisdom, right?
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Yeah.
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The problem is if you're defensive every time you mess up, if you close up, if you defend, if you build your castle, you build your moat, you put alligators in the moat, you make it so you can never get past the defense, then you don't learn and you stay that way forever.
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Right.
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And that gets back to where we started, which is if there's a moment where I make a mistake and I don't learn from it, and then I make that mistake again and I don't learn from it, and then I make that mistake again, if I'm constantly just defending to that instance, I'm not seeing actually the way I'm getting myself into a pattern trouble set of behaviors that are maybe troublesome or I want to say deleterious, but that's such you know just not good for me.
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Like outcomes of the same mistakes.
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So then I guess the question is if if you know, like so let's take the example of talking to one of our kids about their phones.
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Yes.
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And we repeatedly say, Hey, you know, you're not engaged with X, Y, Z because you're constantly just engaged on your phone.
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And over time, let's say the fourth time, they say, But I'm not on my phone right now, I'm looking at you, I'm talking to you.
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Right.
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How do you help that person see what's behind that, like the pattern of the R.
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Well, you have you have this conversation with them.
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You you you have if they're not seeing that difference, they're not making a distinction between the instantiation or the instance and the pattern.
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Yeah.
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So one's an instance of a pattern and one's a pattern.
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If they don't understand that difference, if they can't distinguish that difference, then they're not gonna be able to you know they're not gonna be able to understand it.
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So I'll give I'll give you an example.
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You know, when the when the first plane hit the Twin Towers, everybody in America had a similar thought, which was it's probably like a somebody in a pi a a Cessna.
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Like an accident.
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You know, a small plane hit a building, hit one of the twin towers.
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Yeah.
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As soon as it was two planes, that's a pattern.
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So a pattern is two or more.
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Yeah.
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You can't establish a pattern on one.
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Right.
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What you want to be looking for in life is uh, you know, at the second plane, it was instantly terrorism.
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At the first plane, it was like small plane accident.
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Yeah.
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You know, because we've had small planes run into buildings.
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So if you s uh understand the patterns, then you can fix them.
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But if you don't see the pattern, if you see every instantiation as a different thing, then you won't even know about the pattern and you won't fix the pattern.
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And the problem with life is the pattern reveals itself in different contexts, under different names, under different colors, under different auspices, right?
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It's different it looks different, but it's the same pattern.
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It's like if I if I date the same person, you know, I have four people that I date, right?
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Over time.
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Yeah.
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Over ten years.
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Yeah.
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And each each one has a name, you know.
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They have different names.
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They look different.
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They're different people.
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They're different.
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They have different histories.
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So you go, oh, they're different.
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Right.
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But then you look at, oh, I had a I had a dysfunctional relationship with this one, and then I had a dysfunctional relationship with this one, and then I had a dysfunctional relationship with this one, and then I had a dysfunctional relationship with this one, and you go, huh.
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Interesting.
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And then you go, well, you know, there's one common denominator, which is me.
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Right.
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And even though these are not common.
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They're different, yeah.
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Even though they're different, there's something the same about them.
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And so there's something about this that is similar to this, analogous to this, you know.
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And then you go, oh, okay, I keep picking people who are a certain way.
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I keep bringing those people into my life.
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Well, and I also think there's a there's something about when you start to see that there's a pattern, you can see the underlying structure and components.
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Because right now, in MIO terms, this is I.
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So at the informational level, they seem different.
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But at the structural level, there's something about each one of these.
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And about the relationship of attraction to that and about whatever that's serving in you.
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Yes.
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And so uh you could think about it this way: like something about this type of person is interacting and being attracted to something about me.
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Which is dysfunctional.
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Which which is creating this, you know, in this case, a dysfunctional relationship.
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Right?
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Or replace those four people with four jobs.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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Or replace those four peep jobs and people with four decisions that you made.
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Yes.
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Or four choices that you made.
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Yes.
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It doesn't really matter what's up there.
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It's it what matters is the pattern.
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And then you get to see, oh, there's this relational pattern that I'm getting in.
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I keep making these kinds of choices, I keep making choosing these kinds of jobs, I keep choosing these kinds of friends, I keep choosing these kinds of people.
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And what is it about what part of me is is reaching out for that, what part of them or you know, and what am I trying to serve?
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Right.
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And I I would take it a step further, which is you already said it, but you can't you can't fix it until you see it.
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No.
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Right.
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And so, like what you just did, you just literally drew it out in very simple terms.
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You know, like, okay, I need to think about what is the commonality across these four instantiations that can give me insight into breaking a pattern of, in this case, poor choices.
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Yes.
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Poor people who, for whatever reason, bring out a dysfunctional dynamic between you and them.
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Yes.
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Right?
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Because if you don't do this, if you don't kind of put it out on the table and think about it and s and see it as a pattern, there's no promise land here, right?
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No.
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Which you're just gonna be of course in this situation.
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The thing is, uh what we were saying earlier is like if you don't see this, you will repeat it.
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Yeah.
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And reality will just k keep handing you that same situation, that same job opportunity, that same relationship opportunity.
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Reality will just there's a there's an infinite number of these things that you can interact with.
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And so if we think about you being here as a whole, you the whole, and there's some part of you, and this is a whole, and there's some part of that whole, whether it's a job, a person, it doesn't, it doesn't really matter.
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Structurally, it doesn't matter.
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And what's happening is that there's this, if we kind of take blow up this part and this part, there's this relationship between those.
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Yeah.
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Now, you don't have control over this person, this job, this situation, this choice, this kind of
thing, right?
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This situation up here.
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What you do have agency and can some control over is this part.
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And so if you can remedy, reconcile, heal, whatever word you want to use, if you can do something to transform that part, this part is the part that matters.
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Because if you can do that, if let's say this part is part of me and I take it away, I I reconcile it, I metabolize it, I I I fix it, whatever word you want to use, then this relationship goes away.
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And then this choice goes away.
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This choice exists in the world, but you don't interact with it.
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You don't choose it.
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And in and you don't seek it out, you seek out something different.
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Yes, and in this example, let's just stick on the example of the four different dysfunctional relationships.
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That part that's in your hand is some piece of your psychology that is attracted to or attracted by a certain type of person or and that causes this negative uh dynamic over and over again.
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Over and over again.
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And you can imagine like it could be the same with your job.
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Like why am I taking jobs that I constantly feel XYZ?
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Yes.
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:29.360
And then eventually, once you see the pattern of why you're choosing what you're choosing, you can make a different choice because you've recognized what that thing is.
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:35.840
And that pattern could be very, very small, like why do I choose this every day to eat?
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:45.039
Or why do I or it could be very big, like who you choose to marry, or you know, what who you what job, what job you're attracted to, right?
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:47.120
And why are you attracted to that job?
00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:55.679
Are you attracted to it for some you know, because it says something about your identity, or are you attracted to it because you deeply love what you're doing?
00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:56.240
Right.
00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:56.799
Right?
00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:58.480
And you know, is it ego?
00:16:58.639 --> 00:16:59.840
Because you're gonna pay a lot.
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:08.720
You can get that job for ego, yeah, but you're gonna pay a lot for that choice, for this little ego here, or big ego, right?
00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:09.920
You're gonna pay a lot.
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:18.799
It'd be it'd be much smarter to reconcile your ego, for example, and not need that job or that situation.
00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:19.359
Right.
00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:25.599
And I think what's important is on the ground, this person, they're not understanding why this didn't work.
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:27.279
And they
don't understand why this didn't work.
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.039
And they don't understand why this didn't work.
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:42.079
And they don't understand what and so they're they're trying to troubleshoot each instance instantiation and more and more frustration that why do I keep doing you know, why did I do this with this person?
00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:42.799
Why this?
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:46.079
So if you treat it as four separate things, that's right.
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:52.480
You're gonna be spinning and you're gonna be frustrated and you're not gonna feel I'm gonna color this q-tip red at the end.
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:54.000
Oh, see, that's kind of fun.
00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:58.720
And the reason that people do that is all about this q-tip, right?
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:06.720
Which is they experience that this wor this universe, this reality, this part of the world is happening to them.
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:09.359
The arrow is going this way.
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:11.279
The red is going this way.
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:18.720
It's happening to them, and then it's happening to them again, and then it's happening to them again, and then it's happening to them again.
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:23.599
What they don't see is the arrow is also going this way, which is they are happening to the universe.
00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:24.640
Does that make sense?
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:32.079
And so the what the w in this particular case, for example, it's like you have it's like you're in a radio station.
00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:35.119
You have your own W Y O U.
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:36.160
Right?
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:37.200
That's clever.
00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:38.400
That's your radio system.
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:39.759
I'm transmitting radio.
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:47.519
And you're transmitting energy, you're transmitting attitude, you're transmitting all these things that you don't even that you're not saying, it's just kind of obvious, right?
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.000
It's good and and it's a particular station.
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:55.920
And it plays particular kind of music that's that's only WYOU music.
00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:56.400
Yeah.
00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:01.119
And there are people out there who are tuning into that kind of music.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:04.000
And they go, oh, they oh, go back.
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:05.839
They don't have dials anymore.
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:08.000
But in the old days we had dials, right?
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:09.839
And you tune into that kind of music.
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:10.079
Yeah.
00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:11.599
They don't even have radio anymore.
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:13.279
They have, you know, Spotify or something.
00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:14.319
But some people have radio.
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:16.880
You're tuning into that, it's on your Spotify account.
00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:17.920
It's recommendations.
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:19.359
There's recommendations, right?
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:21.359
Let's modernize your analytics.
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:22.880
I'll modernize my analogy.
00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:26.079
So you're getting recommendations.
00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:27.599
Well, how are you getting recommendations?
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:29.119
By the signal that you're putting out.
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:29.680
Yes.
00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:31.440
You're getting recommendations.
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:37.279
And so these are showing up over and over again because of because of your broadcast channel.
00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:37.839
Yes.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:42.480
So if you change this thing, then that's no longer in the broadcast.
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.519
It changes what you're it changes what you're broadcasting.
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:45.839
Yeah.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:53.279
And you'll attract the kind of person or the kind of job or the kind of situation that you're looking for once this thing is gone.
00:19:53.440 --> 00:20:03.200
But if this thing is driving you to choose certain things, certain types of things for certain types of reasons, then it they're gonna keep showing up.
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:05.599
There's an unlimited supply of them in reality.
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:06.160
Yeah.
00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.079
It's not like you're getting unlucky.
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:12.240
That's what I think a lot of people think is like, yeah, oh, I just can't change my luck, you know.
00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:17.839
I just keep finding these terrible people or you know terrible jobs or terrible friends.
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:20.400
Well, it's a pattern.
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:22.960
What's the structure of the pattern, right?
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:23.279
Yeah.
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:27.440
And if you do that, you can change things very quickly.
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:28.240
That's true.
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:28.559
Yeah.
00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:30.480
And you can have more agency.
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:32.559
Sorry, that's the part about the arrow.
00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:40.720
When you realize that the arrow is pointing outward, you realize that you have tremendous agency in what you are able to accomplish and do in your life.
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:48.240
Well, the way I like to look at that also is you can see that you're you're part of the problem, and so you can therefore be the solution, right?
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:49.039
Bingo.
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:51.279
If I'm like, okay, well, it's actually me.
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:52.240
A hundred percent.
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:53.279
It's actually this.
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.960
And I can change this because it's part of me, and I'm in control of me.
00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:01.359
The best situation you can be in in life is to have it be all your fault.
00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:04.160
Yeah, because then it's you can then do something about it.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:04.559
Yes.
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:09.200
If it's
not if n if it's truly not any of your fault, right?
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:12.000
That that you don't have any agency in the matter.
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:12.480
Yeah.
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:16.000
Then you don't really have a lot to say about it.
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:17.599
I mean, I think about my own life.
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:27.680
Some of the times where I was the most down or frustrated or discouraged, it's when there are things that are actually completely out of my control.
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:28.000
Yeah.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:31.200
That I don't have any agency to change.
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.000
And then, you know, you have to figure out how do you cope with that.
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:37.759
And and well, the first thing is, is there a place where I can have some.
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:41.119
And is there a place where you have no agency whatsoever?
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:45.279
Because in most situations, if you look hard enough, there's some.
00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:48.559
You have a significant amount more agency than you think you do.
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:52.400
And part of the problem is unwinding that mental model that you don't have any.
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:57.920
And people like to, you know, they like the comfort of feeling like, oh, this is not my fault.
00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:03.359
But you uh you kind of Want it to be your fault because then you can do something about it.
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:09.839
So I kinda try to look for like, geez, you know, let's look for how is this my fault?
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:10.480
Yeah.
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:12.480
So that I can do something about it.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:19.359
Because if I can find the causality or or even that I'm part of a web of causality, then I can change that.
00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:26.400
Like when two people interact in a dysfunctional way, not all of it is your fault, but your part of it is your fault.
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:26.799
Yeah.
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:29.839
And you and you can do something about that part of it.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:36.160
And it will either break the dysfunctional relationship or make the dysfunctional relationship functional.
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:37.920
But either way, you're better off.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:42.880
If the relationship ends or if the relationship fixes, you're better off.
00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:43.519
Yeah.
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:50.720
And I think one of the things that is if you find yourself in a moment and you're like, ugh, why is this happening again?
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:52.720
Or here we go again.
00:22:53.279 --> 00:23:02.400
Challenge yourself to not just think about the situation that you're dealing with right now and say, because a lot of us have like an intuition, I think I've been here before.
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:02.720
Yeah.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:04.400
And sometimes we don't want to hear that.
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:07.839
And sometimes the best thing to say is, I have been here before.
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:10.160
And let me go back and trace.
00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:20.960
Because then you're ready to start seeing the underlying pattern, which then gives you the ability to isolate where you've had some choice, some agency that would allow you to break it.
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:21.279
Totally.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:22.480
To break that pattern, right?
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:25.599
I want to be the first to know that I'm wrong about something.
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:26.079
Yeah.
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:37.680
I w I want to hear it as soon as humanly possible, as fast as humanly possible, because that's gonna give me the the uh a you know the the power to change it.
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:39.839
Yeah, and a recognition of that power.
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:50.240
It's like I know I know it can be scary, but if you if you start with the basic assumption that, like, hey, we're all wrong in some way all the time, like it's really not that scary to be wrong.
00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:53.759
In fact, you're doing really well at it all the time.
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:56.319
Yeah, you get the wrong award.
00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:58.880
Yeah, like give me the wrong award.
00:23:58.960 --> 00:23:59.359
I would love it.
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:04.799
Well, I mean I also think we've got a lot of um emotional loading and misperceptions about wrong.
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:08.720
Like we we assign so much emotion to being wrong.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:12.480
The truth is wrong is the predecessor to learning, right?
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:14.240
Wrong is the predecessor to growth.
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:20.799
So you should actually embrace wrong as an opportunity to see it differently.
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:30.880
This is the problem with our school system, this is a problem with our with our organizations, is like people are terrified to make mistakes, people don't want to raise their hand and look dumb.
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:36.559
I'm like, let's let's embrace our dumbness globally.
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:40.240
Let's embrace how wrong we are globally.
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:40.880
Yeah.
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:46.880
And then once we get over that, then it's like, oh, I have, you know, the best questions are dumb questions.
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:47.440
Yeah.
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:47.680
Yeah.
00:24:48.000 --> 00:25:01.440
You walk in any room where people are doing really smart stuff, and you just go like, uh, you know, and you ask a really basic question, and you'll have ten of the top experts in the world look at you and be like, why is it that I can't answer that question?
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:03.839
And also it's a dumb question, right?
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:06.000
And you're like, well, it's not dumb enough.
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:06.640
Yeah.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:07.440
Right.
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:08.640
No, that's right.
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:09.359
That's right.
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:27.920
And how
many times have we have we been talking with in particular organizational leaders or people inside organizations, and say, and and the leader is frustrated because they're not getting what what the output that they want, but then the the people in the organization are complaining, well, we don't want to be wrong, so we do our best.
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:28.319
Yeah.
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:36.720
You know, and so there's this mental model of wrong being bad, rather than the organizations we see that do well are like, let's try a lot of stuff.
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:40.640
Let's be wrong a few times, because then we can narrow in on the right.
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:41.039
Yep.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:43.519
And that that's true f across these contexts.
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:58.240
And you're right that everybody a a lot of people build this m this little mental model that is very common, which is, you know, this is wrong and right, and this is bad and good.
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:03.279
We make this very fast assumption that when I'm wrong, I'm bad, and when I'm right, I'm good.
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:03.519
Yeah.
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:09.039
And that's just like that couldn't be a w a worse mental model to run your day.
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:09.599
Right.
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:18.319
Because one, you're being super judgy about bad and good, which is gonna just really make you avoid being wrong.
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:23.200
And and even when you're wrong, you're gonna cover to make it make yourself right.
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:26.240
If you do that, you know, every day.
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:29.440
Imagine all of your progress is incremental.
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:30.240
Think about that.
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:32.640
All of your progress is in tiny steps.
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:32.960
Yeah.
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.599
That's how all real progress occurs, in tiny steps, right?
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.200
So now imagine that every day you run this model.
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:46.079
You're in tiny steps downward, not upward.
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:46.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:46.960
Right.
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:47.440
Yeah.
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:51.119
So you're getting better and better at being worse and worse.
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:53.920
That's not a good pattern to be.
00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:54.880
It's not good.
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:56.480
Yeah, it's not.
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:09.839
Well, it's uh by not good, I mean it's like you're not gonna end up happy, you're not gonna end up functional, you're gonna you're gonna s you're gonna be in what's called a positive feedback loop, reinforcing feedback loop.
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:10.400
Yeah.
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:17.119
But it's not positive like like uh yay, it's positive like it's increasingly negative.
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:21.359
Yeah, the more of this you're gonna experience that, the more yeah, yeah, I get it.
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:33.680
If you think of
wrong as the opportunity to learn, and you think and you combine that with, hey, is this a pattern, just asking that question, then you have a chance at sort of breaking those patterns.
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:36.160
And we all have patterns of this type of stuff.
00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:40.480
Anything in our life, where I've been here, I've done this, why am I doing this again?
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:41.920
Nothing but patterns.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:42.880
It's all patterns.
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:43.359
Yeah.
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:44.480
All the way down.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:48.559
And and so if you look for the patterns, and then that's step one.
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:51.599
Don't deal in instantiations, deal in patterns.
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:57.279
And step two is look for where you're a part of that pattern.
00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:03.119
And that'll give you the empowerment and the agency to change it.
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:04.559
Yeah, I think that's right.
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:09.359
It'll literally point to the solution that you have to choose to change that pattern.
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:09.759
Yeah.
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:12.319
And you can be out of it faster than you think.
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:13.839
Yes, for sure.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.759
Because it's just it's just the recognition of it that is 90% of the game.
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:19.519
Can't fix it if you can't see it.
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:20.079
That's true.
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:20.960
I mean, think about that.
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:29.359
If I brought you a table that had a broken leg and I blindfolded you, how hard would it be to like fix that table?
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:31.039
It's gonna be really, really hard.
00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:31.920
It would be hard.
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:34.480
It's gonna take you a long time to even figure out what's broken.
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:35.519
Yeah, that's right.
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:39.359
If you can't see it, it's very, very difficult to fix it.
00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:39.759
Yeah.
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:44.400
So it's just that's why metacognition is so critically important.
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:48.799
It's the most important skill that we humans have.
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:52.720
And it's it's that ability to see yourself.
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:53.039
Yeah.
00:28:53.279 --> 00:29:03.359
And if you if you have that ability, then anything's possible because you can you can f fix any problem, you can create any developmental routine.
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.920
You know, it's really very empowering to have metacognition or awareness seen.
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:08.960
Yeah, that's right.
00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:10.000
That's a good one.
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:10.960
It is a good one.
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:12.160
I was thinking about it came up with it.
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:12.880
You picked a good one.
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:13.920
You picked a winner today.
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:14.960
Yeah, well, you know.
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:18.480
I think the things that come out of daily life are probably the most interesting.
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:21.920
Because this happened last week, so I was thinking about it structurally.
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:32.480
What's remarkable is those little things in daily life we're doing the same science as the things that we think of as being scientific and really technical.
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:42.720
You know, daily life is very complex and and very you have to be scientific to have a better life, have a better business.
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:52.319
Einstein was uh quoted as saying the whole of science is nothing more than a refinement of everyday thinking.
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:52.799
Yeah.
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:57.680
And I think that's one of the most profound statements I've I've ever come across.
00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:58.720
Because it's true.
00:29:58.960 --> 00:29:59.200
Yeah.
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:04.079
We should all be considering ourselves scientists of our own lives.
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:04.720
Yeah.
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:07.279
And we and science is not a job.
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:13.759
Science is a disposition to want to know the truth of stuff.
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:17.279
Like you want to know what you're contributing to this pattern.
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:20.160
I want to know that because I'm a scientist of my own life.
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:20.799
Yeah.
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:26.799
And I think I think a lot of it is just asking yourself, you know, if you're in a situation, is this a pattern?
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:27.279
Yeah.
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:28.400
What's the pattern?
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:30.079
How am I a part of it?
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:34.640
And then you can make different, you know, have different outcomes, different choices.
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:35.440
I think it's good.
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:36.559
Hell to the yeah.
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:38.319
Hell to the yeah, humdope.
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:40.559
Raise the roof.
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:42.319
All right.
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:43.680
That's a wrap.