Transkrip penuh untuk When Technology Meets Faith

sales thing? 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:56.319 And I was like, Okay, let's give it a shot. 00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:02.479 So I always say I got in at the the family and friends round when they were still hiring people that they just knew. 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:10.719 It was before we were, you know, we just we just listed 17 roles back in July of 2025, and we had over 7,000 applicants. 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:17.360 And so had I had to apply during a time like that, there's I don't think there's any way that I'm sales manager at Halo today. 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:22.079 So I'm very blessed to have been good friends with Alessandro and to have gotten in when I did. 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:26.639 There's a there's a third category when you're in that in that range. 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:29.839 It's called it's called friends, family, and fools. 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:31.920 But obviously, you're not a fool. 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:42.480 Uh now, but I but I want to go back and so this so a Halo, uh what how many were there two or three people that were in it in first three founders, two or three founders? 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:43.519 Three co-founders. 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:44.079 That's correct. 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:47.759 Yeah, three co-founders, and they say a founding team of about five to seven. 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:48.319 Okay. 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:59.519 And so then they essentially uh did a Kickstarter, but then put all their own money into this thing, including maxing out some credit cards, and that's kind of scary, um, to make it work. 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:03.199 So then they did not go the venture capital route. 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.199 Uh and they did eventually. 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:09.759 So yeah, so they did yeah, they did a seed round, I think, in in 2019. 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:10.959 I don't want to misspeak on that. 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:17.839 So I'm I'm not the expert of the whole timeline of the venture capital rounds, but I believe 2019, and then I think we did series A. 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:20.079 We almost did them annually there for a while. 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:28.160 It was like series A was in 2020 or 21, and then series B in 22, and then I believe we've done it up through Series C at this point. 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:44.560 And uh I presume that was after you with uh the proverbial you had put all the their their money into it to demonstrate the concept, so then the correct the capital came as a point as acceleration as fuel to grow. 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:46.800 That's the way it was certainly okay. 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:49.279 All right, yeah, and a great time too, obviously. 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:58.639 Uh you know, 20 they they launched in advent, so December of 2018, as I said, and then 2019 was kind of this get it out there, nobody knew who it was. 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:03.839 And then when COVID hit in 2020, that was really when they started to get become more known, right? 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:06.480 People were starting to look for spiritual things they can do remote. 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:14.720 So the time was obviously uh very providential, uh, we would say, and it's just something that a lot of people needed. 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:20.879 So 2020 was a huge spike in in usage, and then it's from there grown exponentially. 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.240 So let me ask you, what does a sales manager do? 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:29.920 Because I presume this is it was it's like I bought it on a point-to-point sale. 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.680 Um, I mean, uh so what what do you do, as they would say? 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:38.319 You know, when I was the first vice president at a college, someone a young student said to me, you know, Mr. 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.360 Johnson, I know you're vice president, but what is it you do? 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:44.480 So I'm gonna so what is it you do? 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:46.800 Yeah, it's a great question. 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:55.199 So we sell obviously individual subscriptions, and so an individual person can go in and buy an account or buy a subscription. 00:06:55.279 --> 00:07:00.160 You can have a free account or you can have a paid uh subscription, and then you can buy family accounts. 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:13.040 What we do is we sell it at scale, and so we partner with a Catholic school, for example, and say they have 500 students at the school, they can buy it for five to seven dollars per student, and all the faculty staff is also included in that. 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:15.600 And so then they're giving access to the students. 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:17.199 The students can pray at home with their families. 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:22.319 We give them additional resources like teacher guides, curriculum guides, uh, walkthroughs for the teachers. 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:27.439 We train the teachers on how to use it, and they have a dedicated success rep that works with them throughout that partnership. 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:40.399 And so we have partnerships with schools, parishes, universities, dioceses, Catholic organizations uh that give, you know, other nonprofits that give access to their employees uh for a full year and things like that. 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:44.560 So it's a but it's under the same, it's a subscription, it's the license model. 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:46.959 So it's a it's a periodic fee. 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:51.759 Now, um, I know that it's uh it's uh it's Catholic in its in its orientation. 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:56.800 Do you and I'm a Protestant, do you sell it to any Protestant schools or anything as well? 00:07:57.439 --> 00:07:58.639 Yeah, we haven't yet. 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:01.439 I think we've had small partnerships with certain Protestant schools. 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:06.480 We think that it'll be something we do down the line uh more intentionally on the B2B side. 00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:10.399 Uh with individuals, though, we have almost

40% of our users are non-Catholic. 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.439 So we we reach a lot of non-Catholics through the app itself. 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:27.519 But we on the the B2B side, I think our main approach of our philosophy is just really trying to master what we're doing on the Catholic side because it's what we know, and then roll it out to the organizations that operate a lot differently than than what we're used to. 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:35.039 And so uh to you know, our earlier conversation, we've always kind of thought about, especially on the the church side specifically, schools would be pretty easy to do. 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:39.039 We just haven't really um done a lot of outreach, but we've met with a number of Protestant schools. 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:49.679 I know we've partnered with a handful of them, and we we have no, I would say, uh hesitancy or anything against partnering with a Protestant school or even some private schools and charter schools have have been in touch with us. 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:53.279 But then on the church side, our plan has kind of been all right, let's go. 00:08:53.519 --> 00:09:04.639 We partner with Catholic churches and then probably extend it to Orthodox churches and kind of liturgical Protestants and then get kind of further down the line into um, you know, churches that operate in a very different manner. 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:08.240 And so the hope is that down the line we, you know, we want to help everybody pray. 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:16.799 And so we try to make it as open a space and as welcoming a space for for everyone there while being dedicated to our Catholic faith and Catholic values. 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:30.480 Uh, but I think it does a great job of reaching people in in such a wide range of uh places in their faith, uh, you know, quite literally around the world with the apps available in eight different languages, using 150 different countries on a regular basis. 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:33.200 You ran let's slow down a little bit. 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:35.519 How much how many languages? 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:38.720 How many languages and how many countries? 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:40.000 150. 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:45.120 We say 150 plus, but so so then um I'm curious. 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:52.639 Uh, all the content is it live recorded, or is some of the translation AI, or how does it work? 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:58.159 We are very ardently against using AI voices in the app. 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:00.639 We think you should always pray with an individual. 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:01.120 Yes. 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:11.759 I see there's there's specifically one prayer app out there that is becoming more and more popular that has like an AI Jesus and things, and our our philosophy is is pretty hard against that. 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:14.159 So we use real voices all the time. 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:16.559 Now, do we use AI as prompts sometimes? 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:20.480 So we don't let AI write the prayers and we don't let AI record or say the prayers. 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:26.720 That can't be the voice or the actual author, but we use it as prompts or looking up, you know, we're writing the story of a saint, for example. 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:29.679 Do we use AI for some of the, you know, gathering some of that information? 00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:32.480 Yes, but we don't use it outside of that. 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:51.360 Uh but when we, yeah, so when we translate it, we have a team of contractors, different people that work, uh, some people work full-time for us in Poland, in Brazil, in Mexico, in Italy, um, in the Philippines that are actually translating the content and then recording the content, working with different voices and people to get that content recorded. 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:57.759 So, how long was it after um the um the application was live? 00:10:57.919 --> 00:10:59.279 Did you go international? 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:11.200 International started in the fall of 2021, so it would have been almost three years, just shy of three years when we started making the international push. 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:16.399 Let me give you a uh a comment that came back from a Protestant friend of mine. 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:22.240 He is the uh chaplain of a local university and uh very thoughtful guy. 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.799 Here's something he said it's impressed me too. 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:30.399 When you're doing one of the devotions, and I'll often do um, where's the one here? 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:32.720 Uh oh, come on. 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:34.000 Come on. 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:39.679 Uh here we go. 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:48.559 This uh this daily gospel up here and it'll say it it's it's tended to be a semi-meditation on the front end. 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:51.279 So it says, find a place where it's calm and blah blah blah. 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:58.720 Well, with each instruction, there's plenty of time to do what they've asked you to do. 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:04.639 So when they read the scripture, it says, and and you know, think about this. 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:06.879 Well, there's plenty of time, you don't have to respond to me. 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:08.320 And he noticed it immediately too. 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:11.519 He said, you know, a lot of these apps, it's just like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:16.080 It's it's like they're sort of projecting at you, they're not engaging you. 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:20.399 And that's one thing I really the pace of this is done very, very well. 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:23.840 And you can just take that along to your bosses and tell them, all right. 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:24.720 That's great. 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:27.200 The pace is done very well. 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:28.799 Now, I do have another thing. 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:36.159 Uh I'm sure it's in here somewhere, but I haven't been

able to what version of the scripture is used for all the quotations in here. 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:38.159 That's a great question. 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:43.759 I I believe it's the revised standard version, the the Catholic RSV, but it could also be the New American Bible. 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:45.360 I'm not 100% positive on that. 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:47.519 Well, well, I use RSV. 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:51.919 Now there is a new RSV, which is a little more up, you know, to the language. 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:53.759 You know, I'm still in the the thou thing. 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:57.679 But uh, and then the other one was the um uh what was it? 00:12:57.759 --> 00:12:59.679 Uh the New American Bible. 00:12:59.919 --> 00:13:08.720 There's a new American Bible revised edition, which I believe is what we use for mass readings, for Catholic mass readings, but I'm only 80% sure about that. 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:10.000 It's very friendly. 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:10.879 I liked it. 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:11.759 I liked it. 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:15.440 And it's um it's um there are a couple out there that I don't particularly like. 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:27.919 I won't mention to which ones they are, uh, but there's one that's very popular in the Protestant world that I think really shouldn't be called a translation, should be called a uh a paraphrase because there are whole phrases that are just a message or something like that. 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:40.000 Oh no, no, it it it proclaims itself as a as a translation, but I don't think it is because there's so much idiomatic material that's added to it, you know, to give it a certain slant theologically. 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:45.759 You know, I'm going, uh and when I just looked and it is the N it's the NRSV. 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:47.279 I just saw it in that in the app. 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:49.840 The new revised standard version, huh? 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:51.039 That's right. 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:52.480 Well, I really like it. 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:56.000 I'm gonna I may have to get a a version of that, a copy of that. 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:59.759 My mine is the traditional RSV. 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:02.559 It's been around a little bit, as you can see. 00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:03.840 But um, yeah. 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:11.200 Um but um uh anyway, I really like I'm gonna I'm going to look at that because that really impressed me. 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:21.440 Uh, and then I'm not a big fan of this other one that's so popular among certain evangelical churches, because it's it's it's too dead, it's too uh tilted in their direction. 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:27.840 Uh and and you know, my wife and I will we'll be sitting there and they'll be reading this thing, and we'll go, do you see that in here? 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:41.519 I don't see that in here, and uh so the whole phrases, and then some of the language is is dumbed down uh so that it doesn't have the impact and the majesty uh that uh that that it should have, in my view. 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:44.639 But um so how long have you been there, Jane? 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:46.080 Five years, six years? 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.399 I've been there uh almost four and a half. 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:48.960 Okay. 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:54.879 Well a little bit, I guess I got a couple months until four and a half, but I had four years this past early summer. 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.200 So have you met Jonathan Rooney? 00:14:57.759 --> 00:14:59.200 I have met Roomy, yes. 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:06.799 I get asked a lot of have you ever met you know XYZ when I talk about working at Hallow, especially when I'm out speaking in the world. 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:10.159 Uh I have not met Wahlberg, but I have met Jonathan Roomy. 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:12.559 No Chris Pratt either, but I have met Jonathan Roomy. 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.399 Actually, it was in like my third month at Hallow. 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.039 He came on a retreat with us, which was really special. 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:22.000 Well, I've not met him, I do know uh Bishop Barron. 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:23.519 Um, nice. 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:28.399 I know Bishop Barron, and he's been a friend of Roomy's for about 20 years, actually. 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:30.879 And he he apparently uh Mr. 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:35.679 Roomy uh was in a desert, a spiritual desert for a very, very long time. 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:57.039 Uh, and that this role that he had in the chosen, um, just sort of, well, it was providential, shall we say, and uh it's given him his um um his and you know, for the longest time, I would not look at the chosen, primarily because so much of what Christian media is is more or less propaganda, and I don't need that. 00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:07.519 And then uh when when uh Jordan Peterson interviewed Dallas Jenkins, the producer, and I heard that interview, I'm going, hmm, this may be worth a look. 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.279 And so then I looked at it and I was really, really impressed. 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:30.240 Um for such a small budget, they there was incredible production values, and then on top of that, they'd gone to great lengths uh to make sure that it was accurate, that the create real create viable backstories, and then have all the different faith groups, you know, even the Jews represented. 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:38.080 And I love the way the fact that they portray Jesus as others would see him, not the other way around. 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:40.159 How would you see him? 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:55.759 And the thing that, you know, here I am with theological education, and I can tell you the thing that really impressed me about Rumi's portrayal, and I'm sure that it had a lot to do with the script as well, is that Jesus he just sort of took people as he found them. 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.720 Okay, I'm gonna get to know you now. 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:01.279 What's next?

00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:02.159 Kind of thing. 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:07.839 He didn't go in and immediately make prescriptions on these people, he didn't prejudge these people. 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:19.839 And to me, that's the power of this uh of the Christian faith is that he you know I was told that he, you know, you you grew up thinking, yeah, he takes you as you are, but that isn't often how it comes across. 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.119 And yet when you see it, it's like, oh, okay. 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:30.000 And of course, as we know, um he um engendered some backlash on some of that. 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:38.720 Um he uh I like to say to people, you know, you have to generate some serious enemies to get crucified, you know, you know, serious. 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:42.000 Uh you you know, they don't crucify Mr. 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:42.559 Rogers. 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.319 And that's true. 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:47.599 And that's often how he's portrayed, this kind of nice guy. 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:50.000 Yeah, go along to get along, you know. 00:17:50.160 --> 00:18:01.039 And the worst ones are those those uh uh those paintings from the late 19th, early 20th century where it looked like a good stiff wind would blow him over and uh pale, sickly, thin. 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.240 This guy was a first century Jew. 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.119 Probably had a pretty good physique on him, Nathan. 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:08.400 He had to, you know. 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:08.960 That's right. 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:11.200 Come on, let's get real here. 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:14.400 You know, but but but you don't want a muscular Jew Jesus. 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:15.759 Oh no, that's no, you don't want that. 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:17.759 You want some frail thing, like I'm playing. 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:24.319 Um it's called it's called being dangerous, but not being a danger. 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:26.079 And there's the difference. 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:28.480 You know, Jesus was a very dangerous person. 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:33.200 Uh he could wrap you up and you'd be like, Wow, what just happened? 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:44.960 But but he was not dangerous, you know, very compassionate, very loving, uh forgiving, but um uh he would tell it like it is. 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:49.599 And um have you seen The Chosen, haven't you? 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:51.039 I have, yeah. 00:18:51.440 --> 00:19:03.440 Well, my favorite scene has to be season two where he's been invited to a Shabbat dinner by Mary Magdalene and Matthew, and I for there's one other there's one other disciple that's there, I forget Shuan. 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:09.839 And they're sitting down to dinner, and there's a knock at the door and it goes up, and it's two Pharisees. 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:18.960 And they they do a quick uh eye scan of the room and they're going, uh oh we don't want to get any closer. 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:25.440 Yeah, you got a prostitute, you

got a tax collector, you know, and who else we can't get any closer than this. 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:27.920 But Jesus, you know, I didn't phase him. 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:31.039 He says, Come on in and join us, come on and have a good time, you know. 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.759 The look on those guys' faces, it was like, if we get any closer, we're gonna catch it. 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:38.160 We better back up, back up, back up. 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:51.920 And see, in this world, there are very few situations where there's that kind of straight line that's been dr that's been drawn in society, where these men really thought their faith was at stake if they got any closer. 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.160 And and was it was in communion with these people. 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.960 And I I say to people, you know what the two two biggest complaints of Jesus were during his time? 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:01.680 They say what? 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:06.799 And I say, Well, hanging around the wrong kind of people and going to way too many parties. 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:12.319 And he hung around, he was down on the well, what was his response? 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.119 I go where the sick are, I go where there's a need. 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.680 You know, you know, I'm not gonna go where everyone's already redeemed and holy. 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:21.200 I mean, they don't need me, you know. 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:23.039 I'm going somewhere else, you know. 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:50.079 And there's a sermon, there's a sermon illustration that I heard a number of years ago, and it's uh and they were talking about Jesus, and I remember the the the minister said, and there's Jesus sitting over there at a table full of sinners having a wonderful time, just enjoying their company, you know, and it that's and I and I really see that in the chosen, the way it's put together, and um, but the personalities are there. 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:56.480 I mean, oh yeah, you got the personalities, and one of my I guess my next favorite scene, Nathan, is when is the calling of Matthew. 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:07.680 If you remember that scene, he's walking through town and Matthew's in his booth, and they're maybe 25, 30 feet away, and he just looks to Matthew and says, Matthew, follow me. 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:13.279 Now they had a couple of brief encounters before, but all of a sudden it's just like, oh really? 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:19.680 Well, he has he has Simon Peter and he has um oh what what's Simon Peter's uh brother? 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:22.720 I can't even think of the uh Andrew Andrew, I couldn't think. 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:24.079 And they're standing there. 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:37.359 Well, they just had some rather unsavory interactions with this man, and they knew what he was, and so Peter says to um uh Simon says to uh to Jesus, uh that's really different, Jesus. 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.599 And Jesus says, Simon, get used to different. 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:45.279 Get used to different and and I love that. 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:45.839 I love that. 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:47.200 Yeah, get used to different. 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:47.599 Yeah. 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:49.599 I'm breaking all the rules here. 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:50.640 We're gonna do this differently. 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:51.519 Yeah, it's amazing. 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:52.559 That's right. 00:21:54.880 --> 00:22:05.440 Yeah, and I think that the uh the thing that you're speaking to, I think, is uh This, what what Aristotle kind of calls the the virtuous middle, you know, the the mean being and the virtue. 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:11.440 A lot of people struggle with this because it's so easy to live in the extremes, philosophically, psychologically. 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.319 Just it's easier on the brain to just rush and live the extremes. 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:17.279 This is why we're so polarized, I think, as a nation, as a society. 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:20.319 But a lot of people want to do either one of the two extremes. 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.279 They either take the Pharisees approach. 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:28.799 And we have people like this in the broad Christian church, where people say, I can't associate with these sinners. 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:32.559 Everybody that doesn't think exactly like me is evil and I can't talk with them. 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:36.720 I have to cut people off if they see things differently than me, etc. 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:42.079 And then you have Christians that go out there on the exact other side and say, Jesus says to everybody come as you are. 00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:45.200 He dined with sinners and prostitutes, and they stay around. 00:22:45.359 --> 00:23:05.119 They they may get baptized or you know, have a conversion experience and they say, Oh, I'm gonna change my life, but they still hang out with their friends who get drunk every weekend or still doing drugs or doing these things, and then they see themselves falling right back into it because they're put themselves on this island and think that oh, I can live this Christian life alone because Jesus did it, so I can do it too. 00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:15.440 And the you know, Jesus, when he sends out the 72, he sends people out in pairs, he never sends anybody out to say, Hey, you just go do it by yourself and uh I expect you to survive. 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:20.319 And I always remind people that yeah, Jesus dined with prostitutes and sinners. 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:23.759 He also had 12 closest friends, and 11 of them became saints. 00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:25.279 One of them was really problematic. 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:28.400 11 of his closest 12 friends became saints. 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:35.839 And a lot of times when he was with these prostitutes and sinners, he brought those 11 future saints, huge saints, no less, along with him. 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:42.400 He wasn't out there by

himself hanging out with prostitutes and sinners for months on end or years on end, which a lot of people try to do. 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:57.440 So there's this tough balance that challenges all of us, no matter which side you lean towards or tend towards, that challenges you if you feel like you're a little bit more isolated and want to go be on a you know in a Christian bubble and island that Jesus says, no, get out there and be in the world, but of the world. 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:08.559 On the other side, you're not also supposed to just be immersed and in a culture and friend group and family or whatever it is that's just surrounded by sin and tempting you constantly to the point where you are falling away from your faith. 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:10.079 So it's a hard thing to balance. 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:13.200 That's that's why it's called picking up your cross, right? 00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:20.400 It's not a not necessarily a joy ride, which chosen does a good job of depicting that, I think, or just showing that it's difficult. 00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:27.440 The Aristotle middle, you know, understanding that um um is gonna say something about that. 00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:40.079 Um there well, you'd recall the uh the woman at the well, uh, once he those other guys had left, and he just says to the woman, All right, you're forgiven. 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:42.000 Now go and don't sin again. 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.480 Just now leave that life. 00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:46.640 Go on, it's over with. 00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:51.839 Right, and um, and uh of course they were ready to stone her to death. 00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:53.039 I loved it. 00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:57.279 Now, what do you think he he drew in the dirt? 00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:03.359 There's all this speculation when he wrote in the dirt, and then one by one they walked away. 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:04.799 What do you think it was? 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:06.559 That's a good question. 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:07.759 I I definitely do not know. 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:08.720 Do you know what it was? 00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:15.359 Well, I don't know, but one of the things like uh bully that that he was writing their own sins in the dirt. 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:17.279 Oh, I have heard that before. 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:17.920 Yes. 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:21.359 Which he could do. 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:23.279 Oh, for sure. 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:28.400 And that that would have shocked that he'd have shocked. 00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:31.680 Whoa, this guy, don't get too close, you'll get burned. 00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:32.400 Seriously. 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:37.440 Um, but yeah, I I have a feeling that that was that's probably c similar. 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:39.519 I I could just see him doing something like that. 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:44.559 You know, not you know, not calling anybody out per se, because he, you know, he did. 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:56.079 You know, the time that he really called people out was oh Jordan Peterson uh had had done this research on what really is taking God's name in vain. 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:11.279 And he went back to the Hebrew, went to the Old Testament, and it's it's not really using the oath, it's using God's name to feather your own nest, to further your own career. 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:21.839 So if someone says, I'm a Christian this or I'm a Christian that and add your trade to it, that is using God to verify or support what you're doing. 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.200 He said, That is what it is. 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:36.240 So if you think about that, that's why he was so hard on the guys who were selling the animals for the sacrifice and the money changers in the temple before Passover. 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:38.799 Because they were doing a good service. 00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:51.440 They were with anything, but they were within the temple grounds, which means they had the approval of the temple leaders and they had sort of the uh the the uh the right real estate, so to speak. 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:54.160 Uh, and that's why he was so bad on it. 00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:56.799 No, do it outside, don't do it in here. 00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:02.319 You know, it's okay outside, but don't use the god, don't use God as an excuse. 00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:06.319 You know, it's like being it's like being in a national park and being the approved vendor. 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:09.119 You know, you've got the inside track, you know. 00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:11.839 And they had they were an approved vendor. 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:13.119 Yeah. 00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:17.039 And I and it just dawned on me, yeah, that that's what these guys are doing. 00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:21.920 You know, because in and of itself, they all had to have an animal sacrifice, they all had to do this. 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:24.079 That was part of part of Jewish life. 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:28.480 And then it just dawned on me, oh yeah, this is why it's where they were, not what they were doing. 00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:33.279 And because they had the they had the emperor of the temple on, you know. 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:34.000 Who knows? 00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:36.079 The Pharisees are probably getting a cut. 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:39.039 I mean, the temple leaders are probably getting a cut. 00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:40.720 They probably were. 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.400 That would make sense for sure. 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.680 Now I want you to think uh think a little something. 00:27:48.400 --> 00:28:02.240 What is an experience you had as a result working for Hallow that you thought was maybe like wow or unexpected, or really gave you a sense of either accomplishment, or maybe you thought, whoa, I've certainly stepped into something. 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:05.119 Um, you want to share anything with us, please? 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:12.079 Man, I think there's been probably countless ones getting to speak at

different opportunities. 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:17.200 I I mean, I get to lead retreats at times for principals or for teachers at a school. 00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:30.079 I'm speaking next week in Phoenix to a room full of superintendents, and that's been really life-giving for me because you know, my faith journey, I became Catholic at a Catholic school. 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.279 And so my family really I was baptized Lutheran. 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:46.559 My dad was baptized the same day as me, but was raised by a Southern Baptist mom, but really never practiced his faith up until the time you know I was after after I was out of college, he started to really kind of discover his own faith and is still very much on his own journey with that. 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:50.480 But um, I we weren't going to church at all by the time I was 10. 00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:55.359 And so when I became I turned 13, I was in eighth grade, I became Catholic at my Catholic school. 00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:06.480 And so for me to be able to give back and work with Catholic schools and help them on their mission and help them to form students in prayer, which is what really ended up changing my life later on in college, is uh just beautiful. 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:22.559 I mean, just all of that, just that experience that that's what I get to wake up and do every day at schools and now with parishes as well, is unbelievable and certainly extremely impactful in my life and in my daily morale, my purpose and all of those things in my faith journey. 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:25.759 Um, getting to experience and travel and do that as well. 00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:33.680 Now, now getting to see the company, this wasn't true necessarily in 2021, but now getting to represent Hallow in different places, you know, meeting different people. 00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:36.240 I just met somebody at my new office and said, Yeah, I work for Hallow. 00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:37.759 It's a Catholic prayer meditation app. 00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:42.160 And they're like, Oh, I have the app, I've heard of it, or I've used it before, things like that. 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:47.039 Now that it's so much more known, the brand has grown so significantly over the last four years. 00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:48.960 Uh, it's really cool and just exceptional experience. 00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:59.599 You get to work in a place where 7,000 people apply, you know, and just for a handful of a dozen, a dozen plus open jobs in just a matter of a couple weeks is really amazing. 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:10.400 It's hard to not be extremely grateful when you see when you when you stop and think, I'm glad they don't use this in a toxic way because they could if they wanted to become toxic and say, you know, we could replace you in a heartbeat. 00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:11.599 You know, how many people want your job? 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:15.039 They never fall flash, obviously, in our faces because it's really a great place. 00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:20.480 But to just stop and and with all humility recognize that and and think about that myself sometimes. 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:22.960 If I you know, every job's gonna have its frustrations. 00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:36.559 I always say I'm in the 99th percentile of job satisfaction, but it it's just amazing to just stop and think sometimes, like, man, people if my job came open, a lot of people will be very excited and be applying for it in a heartbeat. 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:40.240 And so uh working at a place like that is just really cool, it's really fulfilling. 00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:54.640 Well, you know, I can tell you're really happy where you are, and the fact that the fact that you love your job and you like what you do, you're in quite the minority in the workforce. 00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:55.680 Certainly. 00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.160 Um, you're very blessed, Nathan. 00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:13.440 And um, to not only are you blessed with job satisfaction, but you're blessed in a way you're enable to represent our Lord and in a in a way that's meaningful, um, in a way that really impacts other people's lives. 00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:17.279 And you're on the leading edge of a new way of delivery. 00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:21.119 Um there's um right, I I met two young men. 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.359 Um, I just did a podcast for them. 00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:44.079 They have this AI thing where they will go into a church or organization or a school, and they will essentially uh input all the history of say all the sermons or any other content that's been done there and put it in this AI app, and you can just call stuff up and it'll come and it'll create stuff for you. 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:45.359 It's like incredible. 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.200 Uh it has to be loaded in, of course. 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:52.079 It's you know, it's really a curated large uh large language model, is what it is. 00:31:52.319 --> 00:32:02.480 But uh these two young kids, I mean, you know, I think they're what I know I have grandsons their age, probably, but um, you know, that's um I I was fascinated by that. 00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:05.279 And the thing is called tapos, t-a-p-o-s. 00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:08.720 And and there's a theological meaning for that, and I forgot what it is, quite frankly. 00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:12.000 Maybe you know, but um it's it's it's tapos. 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:12.799 That's awesome. 00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:14.720 So there's a lot of great things happening for sure. 00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:24.240 I think I think there's a great movement and and just a renewed energy and and fervor and zeal in in the church, broadly speaking, that is really cool to see. 00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:33.519 It's a really special time, and and I think that you know, our our CEO, he was just saying at our quarterly uh in-person meeting a couple weeks ago or a month ago now. 00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:55.519 He was saying about how

like his whole dream when we st when he started Hallow and vision for the company was just that we'd start to see just a slight turnaround in just this ever decreasing, it seemed ever decreasing for the last 75 years in church attendance, belief in God, you know, activity, conversions, all these things was just constantly going down. 00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:06.480 And he said he just wanted to see it turnaround and see if Hallow could maybe be, you know, the the 50th footnote in in world history of of why that happened. 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:08.720 And he's like, I feel like we I feel like we've done that. 00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:12.799 It like we've started to see the turnaround, and things have started to actually go back up. 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:15.920 Bible sales were up like 23%, I think it was last year. 00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:26.160 There was a stat that came out recently, and church attendance going up, belief in God, belief in church, practicing religion, all that amongst young people starting to turn around and increase. 00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:34.160 And so to be, yeah, we play a small role in that, but to play a small role at a company that's playing uh a role in that is is really fun. 00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:36.000 So you know definitely blessing. 00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:44.960 You probably know this, but um, young men are converting to Roman Catholicism at a ratio of five to one. 00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:46.319 Did you know that? 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:49.359 Men under 35, young men. 00:33:49.519 --> 00:34:00.640 Um, in fact, uh, back when last year, when leading up to the election, um the Washington the Wall Street Journal did a whole uh series on the manosphere. 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:09.280 The manosphere, these young podcasters and all this, and they're being attracted to those, you know, the Joe Rogans and that group and all that. 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:10.320 So yeah. 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:11.039 Sure. 00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:13.840 And and they're going to faith and they're going to conservative faith. 00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:17.920 They want the structure, uh, they want something meaningful in their life. 00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:23.119 Um, so anyway, I just well, you're obviously enjoying yourself, son. 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:23.920 This is great. 00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:26.239 We're having a good time, yeah, for sure. 00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:29.199 Um, and so what's coming up for you? 00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:33.280 Going to going to any uh events or or any trip soon? 00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:41.039 Yeah, so I have the the Catholic Leadership Summit, is what it's called for NCA, which is a National Catholic Educational Association. 00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:59.039 That's here uh next week in Phoenix, and so I'll be speaking at that on behalf of Hallow uh to the superintendents there talking about prayer and just maintaining how prayer can help fuel us with joy for the mission because a lot of superintendents, principals, teachers, they're

burnt out and they get exhausted and it's it's a tough and demanding job. 00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:04.800 And so get to encourage them a little bit, which I'm really excited about, and then yeah, have some great things lined up next year. 00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:06.239 I'm doing multiple men's conferences. 00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:12.000 I speak at men's conferences, I speak at youth conferences, speak at churches, and I do corporate speaking. 00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:16.159 And so I've been very blessed with just an increasing opportunity year over here with that. 00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:23.519 Um, looking forward to launching more people in my coaching program in January, and we're very excited to be settled in Kansas City as well. 00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:25.920 So it's uh 2026 is gonna be big. 00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:28.480 So we didn't talk about your coaching program. 00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:29.519 Let's talk about that. 00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:33.679 Now, this is your own program and your own material. 00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:40.239 Uh, and as I understand it, it's a leadership program or a vocational program or some combination. 00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:53.519 Yeah, there's sort of a leadership track to it that I do sometimes on on kind of more of the executive coaching side, but the the overall you know organization, the the thing that I run on the side is called Seeking Excellence. 00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:55.199 And so I've been podcasting now for five years. 00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:56.639 Seeking excellence. 00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:57.599 Seeking excellence. 00:35:57.760 --> 00:35:58.079 That's right. 00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:00.000 And and is there a website? 00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:03.360 Yeah, seeking excellence.us is the website. 00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:08.320 And so yeah, and so uh been podcasting for five years. 00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:12.880 I've done over 400 episodes focused on helping people to live to their fullest potential. 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:22.159 And so I have what I call my six pillars of excellence mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, financial, and professional, which I kind of view as like my life report card. 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:39.360 And so the goal with the program, with the excellent life program that I coach people through, is giving them uh videos to go through, exercises that they go through, recommended reading that they go through, and then us meeting monthly to talk about being intentional and growing in those individual areas. 00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:42.079 And so there's things like go ahead. 00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:44.800 No, I was gonna say these meetings are one-on-one. 00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:46.639 Correct. 00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:47.119 Yep. 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:47.679 Okay. 00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:49.360 Go ahead. 00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:50.000 That's right. 00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:53.440 And so, yeah, having people go through exercises like a financial audit. 00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:56.480 So going through and helping them to create a budget if they don't have that. 00:36:56.559 --> 00:37:03.039 Um, if if giving is important to them, especially people coming from a faith background, helping them to set up and be intentional with their giving. 00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:07.599 Uh, for people going through the physical pillar, there's different like actual exercise challenges. 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:32.079 There's a week of sleep challenge of just making sure you're getting good sleep and um doing having good, healthy sleep practices, uh, lowering your stream time, um, reading challenges, all kinds of different things that you go through throughout the course of the program, being intentional with your relationships, um, learning more about emotional intelligence and learning more about your spiritual gifts, you know, learning about prayer, meditation, all those sorts of things. 00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:41.519 And so a lot of times it's taking people that are kind of in the feel like they're doing well in several different areas, but see that they have a lot of room to grow in some other areas. 00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:53.039 But I what a lot what I do a lot is taking people kind of from that good to great, um, and taking people who are kind of, you know, typically not just like totally lost and kind of like a mess in life, but feel like, oh, you know, my career's going well. 00:37:53.199 --> 00:38:03.840 I, you know, I go to the gym pretty often, but man, my spiritual life, you know, my mental health, my uh sleep, you know, my screen time, like just I have some areas that really need some shoring up and need some fixing. 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:07.760 Um, and so always just focused on where are you at currently? 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.119 What's your vision for your life? 00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:14.239 And have exercises and videos that help people to walk through that and really get clarity on those things. 00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:18.639 And then how can we start to move towards that vision in these key areas of your life that matter most? 00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:21.440 When did you decide to do this? 00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:26.320 Uh so the like I said, the podcast was five years ago. 00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:34.320 I launched the program for the first time in 2025, and so I started to really write it up kind of mid-24 was when I started to create it. 00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:42.719 So you're uh you're you're a philosopher and a guy and a guy with armed muscle, um, law enforcement. 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:44.400 And now you're into this. 00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:52.960 So what was what was the um what was the ins what was this the the inspiration for doing it in the first for the podcast five years ago? 00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:57.840 I mean, because because this curriculum has now grown out of the podcast, is what you're telling me. 00:38:58.400 --> 00:38:58.880 Correct. 00:38:59.039 --> 00:38:59.440 Yep. 00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:10.400 And the the philosophy really came

from just my my own life experience of of m coming up in a place where I'm my dad's seventh kid by five different moms. 00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:13.440 My oldest two brothers were in and out of prison. 00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:16.559 My oldest brother did almost 15 years in federal prison. 00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:23.760 Um, just saw a lot of brokenness on both sides of my family growing up from drug addiction to alcoholism, divorces, all kinds of things. 00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:39.760 And so by the time I get to college, you know, I had kind of the foundations, the beginning stages of a faith life, but really just had this desire always to want to do something great, to want to go and make a name for myself, to do something impactful, to do things that matter, to avoid a lot of the same mistakes. 00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:46.639 I just I felt like a lot of people in my life and and role models or just adults in my life had just repeated a lot of the same mistakes. 00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:49.119 And I had seen it through all so many siblings, you know. 00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:53.760 Being the seventh, I have one brother, two brothers who I would say I'm pretty proud of. 00:39:54.000 --> 00:40:00.239 But for the most part, it was a lot of just us, cousins, aunts, uncles, like we're just repeating the same things over and over again. 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:05.199 And I just had this profound idea that's really quite simple that well, what if I didn't do that? 00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:10.320 What if I didn't do the exact same things that I see are leading to these outcomes? 00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:18.239 And I started following down that same path, but luckily at 15, 16 years old, I I had a pretty hard pivot and U-turned on a lot of things. 00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:21.679 Was there any particular event that precipitated that? 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:23.760 Yeah, I got I got in big trouble. 00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:34.960 So I got caught with with uh weed in my room when I was 15 years old, and uh my mom busted me and uh found out about my promiscuous lifestyle and all kinds of different things all at once. 00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:36.079 It was this huge blow up. 00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:37.760 Now, did I get in a ton of trouble? 00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:38.800 Not really, honestly. 00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:47.840 When I look back at the punishment I received for how bad I was being, it was pretty light, but it was enough, it was enough for me to say, okay, I need to start getting things on the right track. 00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:53.599 So you were you were not you you weren't entangled with the law at that point then, just just your parents. 00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:56.000 Just my, yeah, just my parents. 00:40:56.079 --> 00:40:56.400 That's right. 00:40:56.480 --> 00:41:11.119 Okay, so um that was a huge, that was a huge turning point, but all of that was a driving force for me to just be a blank slate when I was in college and just say, okay, how can I become this this person,

this vision that I have for my life when I'm 30, 40, 50, 60 years old? 00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:12.559 How can I actually achieve that? 00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:15.599 And I just had the growth mindset to say, I think it's possible. 00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:21.280 I don't know how to get there, but I have these four gears before I'm thrust into the world to try to figure it out. 00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:24.239 And so Army R O T C no doubt played a huge part in that. 00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:30.960 My time in the Army played a huge part in that, going deeper in my spiritual life and uh really just kind of starting to piece all this together. 00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:49.280 I did a lot of reading, listened to a lot of podcasts, YouTube, all these things, and just sought out mentors, whether in person or virtually at a distance, you know, through books and um other media that I consumed to just learn about life and just strive to uh see what excellence and success would look like for me. 00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:50.719 So that's interesting. 00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:53.280 It was just your self-determination. 00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:57.760 I am not going to repeat the mistakes of other members of my family. 00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:02.559 I see the results of their choices, and I'm not going to do the same. 00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:04.159 That's essentially what you're telling me. 00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:09.360 And you had that one jolt that that was God's wake-up call, I think. 00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:12.800 Like, Nathan, I'm getting your attention, son. 00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:15.760 Um, I'm sure that's what it was. 00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:17.519 Um 100%. 00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:26.079 Um that's and you were smart enough and and aware enough to take that counsel. 00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:33.599 Because there are people who will see it and oh no, I'm just you know they always think they're gonna be able to somehow avoid the consequences. 00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:35.199 Um you can't. 00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:37.599 They're called natural consequences. 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:45.280 Um they um it was you know, we uh we we you know we look we look to an example of uh King David. 00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:55.039 Well, David is the man out of God's own heart, however, he was an egregious sinner, yeah, egregious um murderer, adulterer. 00:42:55.360 --> 00:43:00.239 And God forgave him for those things, but he had to live with the consequences of those things. 00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:04.960 A terribly dysfunctional family, you know, everything else that went with that. 00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:11.840 Um yeah, he you have to pay the piper, so to speak, if you engage in that kind of behavior, you know. 00:43:11.920 --> 00:43:15.119 So well, I wanted to know what that I wanted to know how that all came. 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:18.480 I would have never thought that you came out of that background. 00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:22.079 You have really, I would have never thought that, Nathan. 00:43:22.239

--> 00:43:25.679 I tell you, yes, you you are a success story, my friend. 00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:29.519 I'm I hope I hope I hope your parents are proud of you. 00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:31.679 Um I I really do. 00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:33.440 Uh, because they should be thank you. 00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:38.880 Um it's been, yeah, very, very blessed for sure, as you know, as we mentioned earlier. 00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:40.960 I'm very blessed, man, without a doubt. 00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:55.519 And I think I think back to that I I talk about that moment when I was 15 often uh when I'm giving my testimony and sharing my story, which I am blessed to get to do frequently throughout the year, um, and speaking events and through the podcasts and other platforms. 00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:59.119 But I had you know my best friend at the time who we got in trouble. 00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:02.800 Both of our moms were kind of conspiring together, and and we both got in trouble. 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:07.440 And he went the other route of continuing down, continuing partying, and all those sorts of things. 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:14.320 And I went the other route of pushing into my faith and discipline and trying to reject those things and figuring it out along the way. 00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:20.719 And uh I I see both things, both the grace of God and my choice to cooperate with it. 00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:26.639 And so I believe very fervently in both of those things that that God gave me a lot of grace and he helped. 00:44:26.719 --> 00:44:33.760 And all I had to do was say yes and start to participate and not reject it and do a lot of hard work that came along with that. 00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:39.599 But uh I recognize that that God did the heavy lifting, but you still have to participate in it. 00:44:39.760 --> 00:44:45.039 I think a lot of times people get angry with God or reject God because they think, oh, like why didn't God come to save me? 00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:51.280 And it's like he did, he gave us the same opportunity, the same off ramp, and one of us chose to take it, one of us didn't. 00:44:51.360 --> 00:45:09.519 And I just had to do that many times in my life, and I didn't always do it, and I haven't always done it well, and I failed a lot of times along the way, but I especially I turned 32 years ago, and and this is my um uh I turned 32 this year, and so I this is my 10-year anniversary of getting out of college was this summer. 00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:16.719 And so just to think back to college me and where I'd hoped to be 10 years down the line, it's it's really beautiful uh and extremely moving. 00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:26.559 It often moves me to tears to think now being in the house that we just bought and having the two beautiful kids that I have, our dog, the job that I have, and everything that we get to do now. 00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:27.840 It's it's really amazing. 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:29.760 God has blessed us in abundance for sure. 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:32.159 You are blessed, my friend. 00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:36.159 Uh, we we need to do this again when you've written your book, okay? 00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:38.400 I hope that we go soon. 00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:39.039 All right. 00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:39.599 Okay. 00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:40.239 For sure. 00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:44.000 We've been having a delightful conversation here, Nathan and I. 00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:48.719 Uh Nathan is the national sales manager for Hollow, and uh, I use the app. 00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:50.000 I'm sure he does too. 00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:54.159 And I want to thank him for his time, and I want to thank the audience for their time. 00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:57.519 And next week, somebody else of equal or more interest. 00:45:57.679 --> 00:45:58.880 I'll talk to you soon. 00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:03.360 Thank you for listening today. 00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:09.039 Join us for our next episode when I'll have another thought provoking leader as my guest. 00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:11.840 Guest comments and opinions are their own. 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:16.880 The recording is copyright by the eight principles, all rights reserved.