Radhia Gleis Interview Notes on Cult Leaders
Book: “The Followers: “Holy Hell” and the Disciples of Narcissistic Leaders” 2nd edition.
YouTube: “Arash’s World Interview with Author Radhia Gleis on Holy Hell and Netflix’s How to Become a Cult Leader”
Podcast: “You Just Had To Be There: Radhia Gleis on Cults and Cult Leaders, the “Holy Hell” Documentary and the Netflix Series”
In this episode, I have (once again and again) the great pleasure of speaking to Radhia Gleis who has previously appeared on two different occasions on this podcast to talk about her experiences as a former cult member of the Buddhafield and who was also interviewed for the documentary “Holy Hell” as well as the informative and insightful book “The Followers: “Holy Hell” and the Disciples of Narcissistic Leaders” now in its 2nd edition.
Recently, she appeared in the Netflix series “How to Become a Cult Leader” and we talk about her experience and the depiction and portrayal of the Buddhafield cult. She explains how documentaries and shows of that ilk often distort facts and events. In reality, things were often different than on those programs, and in many ways, you had to be there to understand the range and scope and the complex issues and situations to fully understand what was going on.
That said, she demonstrates various key points that cult leaders, tyrants, dictators, and narcissistic sociopaths have in common, which they borrow from similar playbooks. Narcissistic leaders often try to pinpoint weaknesses, give answers to what people want to hear, and provide them with what they want or need, while also distorting facts, manipulating the psyche, and playing with the emotions and vulnerabilities of the members and followers.
Moreover, members of such groups, sects, and communities tend to build connections amongst each other as they strive to build their unique community, and which they tend to hold onto despite experiencing malaise, discomfort, and various amounts of cognitive dissonance. All this involves and underscores complex psychological processes and cannot be simplified or reduced to simple matters of education or intelligence.
00:33:
Differences between the first and second edition of the book. Edited and shortened the chapters and changed and removed some names. “History is moving faster than a stenographer on crystal meth.” Things have changed a lot. Worked with an editor to re-edit the book. Jaw-dropping changes happening in this country and in the world. Not really new but media is fast nowadays. We are getting a shorter attention span.
03:36:
On Radhia’s appearance and involvement on the Netflix show “How to become a cult leader”. First in the documentary “Holy Hell”. An educated perspective on what Netflix wanted to show. Use of animation and humor made them well-received. Short and easy to digest. Interviewed her for hours but cherry-picked what they needed.
06:32:
On the main purpose of the Netflix documentary. Very tongue-in-cheek. First season was “How to Become a Tyrant”. All the dictators and tyrants have a playbook and do the same things. Formulaic with the same patterns across the board. Cult leaders are also tyrants but within a smaller society.
10:22:
These leaders are pathological liars and the followers often don’t know about the hypocrisy and double standards. Everybody in these groups is duped, lied to, and manipulated. They are not just gullible fools. What about millionaires and billionaires duped by Bernie Madoff? It’s more about the narcissist figuring out what you want and creating the world and fantasy to give to you. A lot of personal value to it for its members.
12:46:
Didn’t like that part of Netflix representation of their particular situation. They seem to emphasize it was all about plastic surgery and everyone having to do ballet. Netflix took it way over the edge. Everyone always brings up the Speedos in interviews labelling him the “speedo-wearing guru”. He was from Venezuela and often wore it but he also did not want to have tan lines. He also swam every day. It happens to be the footage that was available for the documentary taken during outings at the beach.
20:33:
His spiritual perspective she still subscribes to. Your body is your temple. Do not disrespect it but exercise and eat healthy and well. Otherwise, you are not presenting your higher self. Also, from an energetic standpoint. Their diet back then was no gluten, no dairy, no caffeine, no alcohol, no sugar. Best way to maintain your purest energy. 4 techniques of meditation, which he stole from other gurus. There was a method to his madness. Most followers were professionals practicing in the holistic fields from yoga instructors to nutritionists. Living in a community that was all in support of each other. That’s why it was so hard to leave.
23:55:
What about personal identities? The group started in Los Angeles in the late 70s, early 80s. there was a cult on every block. New thinking was a part of it all. Eastern philosophy entering the culture and mindset. They were hippies basically. Originally it had nothing to do with him but it was about enlightenment. Trying to move away from the dogma of Western Christianity. Reading about the relationship between disciple and the master.
26:32:
All this was feeding his narcissistic tendencies. His whole slogan was at first connect to God and I will show you how. This was their birth right. It was who they were and their relationship with God. He was there to teach and give the techniques. After a while, it all changed to connect to his love. Suddenly, he became a deity and started seeing himself that way. Power corrupting and the addiction of power and money. She did research on addiction. People selling their souls for positions, money, power, and success. A neurological neurochemical addiction as powerful as drug addictions.
29:02:
The goal was not to worship the master but to drop the ego as per Eastern philosophy. Buddhafield was a field of little Buddhas. Goal was to attain what buddha had attained or any other elevated master seen in history. As a child growing up Catholic enamored with the saints. A transcendental state transcending body and mind, and suffering. She was a willing participant in the teachings. Process of identifying the ego first and all the identities that come with it. Exercises of the analysis of all the personas that we take on, for instance as predators and prey. Drop who you think you were to explore other aspects of the self. Being a squirrel, an eagle, or even a seaweed in the ocean. What the pollution of the ocean felt like to gain compassion for our planet, animals, for ourselves, for everything. 150 people with different stories but one common thing they had: You had to be there. Being immersed in it and experiencing it to see and feel what it was like and not just observing it.
34:54:
On shakti and transferring power and enlightenment to others. At first, acted like a midwife to show others what to look for. The cult leader plagiarized everybody. He would study the shakti guru. Changed the term from “knowledge” to “knowing” and he wanted to make it special for himself. Open-eye meditation by staring into each other’s eyes forever. Practicing presence with each other. One night, he started giving shakti. Metamorphosis of this narcissist in front of their eyes and she confronted him on it. But it soon became a type of mass hysteria for the others and that fed his narcissistic ego. It fed itself through the power of conformity.
43:44:
He made sure that you doubted yourself. That was his goal. None of the guys being abused came forward. Karma a big deal for them. Some of them left but many of them did not want to return to this painful world. They did not want to miss out on the connections and sense of community. How a small group can develop into this sickness. They were all there and it was really complex and had nothing to do with education or intelligence. He made his living out of hypnotherapy. He knew how to play her. He would be different to each person, either friendly or violent. He was a chameleon and would be whatever they needed at the time.
Book: “The Followers: “Holy Hell” and the Disciples of Narcissistic Leaders” 2nd edition.
YouTube: “Arash’s World Interview with Author Radhia Gleis on Holy Hell and Netflix’s How to Become a Cult Leader”
Podcast: “You Just Had To Be There: Radhia Gleis on Cults and Cult Leaders, the “Holy Hell” Documentary and the Netflix Series”
In this episode, I have (once again and again) the great pleasure of speaking to Radhia Gleis who has previously appeared on two different occasions on this podcast to talk about her experiences as a former cult member of the Buddhafield and who was also interviewed for the documentary “Holy Hell” as well as the informative and insightful book “The Followers: “Holy Hell” and the Disciples of Narcissistic Leaders” now in its 2nd edition.
Recently, she appeared in the Netflix series “How to Become a Cult Leader” and we talk about her experience and the depiction and portrayal of the Buddhafield cult. She explains how documentaries and shows of that ilk often distort facts and events. In reality, things were often different than on those programs, and in many ways, you had to be there to understand the range and scope and the complex issues and situations to fully understand what was going on.
That said, she demonstrates various key points that cult leaders, tyrants, dictators, and narcissistic sociopaths have in common, which they borrow from similar playbooks. Narcissistic leaders often try to pinpoint weaknesses, give answers to what people want to hear, and provide them with what they want or need, while also distorting facts, manipulating the psyche, and playing with the emotions and vulnerabilities of the members and followers.
Moreover, members of such groups, sects, and communities tend to build connections amongst each other as they strive to build their unique community, and which they tend to hold onto despite experiencing malaise, discomfort, and various amounts of cognitive dissonance. All this involves and underscores complex psychological processes and cannot be simplified or reduced to simple matters of education or intelligence.
00:33:
Differences between the first and second edition of the book. Edited and shortened the chapters and changed and removed some names. “History is moving faster than a stenographer on crystal meth.” Things have changed a lot. Worked with an editor to re-edit the book. Jaw-dropping changes happening in this country and in the world. Not really new but media is fast nowadays. We are getting a shorter attention span.
03:36:
On Radhia’s appearance and involvement on the Netflix show “How to become a cult leader”. First in the documentary “Holy Hell”. An educated perspective on what Netflix wanted to show. Use of animation and humor made them well-received. Short and easy to digest. Interviewed her for hours but cherry-picked what they needed.
06:32:
On the main purpose of the Netflix documentary. Very tongue-in-cheek. First season was “How to Become a Tyrant”. All the dictators and tyrants have a playbook and do the same things. Formulaic with the same patterns across the board. Cult leaders are also tyrants but within a smaller society.
10:22:
These leaders are pathological liars and the followers often don’t know about the hypocrisy and double standards. Everybody in these groups is duped, lied to, and manipulated. They are not just gullible fools. What about millionaires and billionaires duped by Bernie Madoff? It’s more about the narcissist figuring out what you want and creating the world and fantasy to give to you. A lot of personal value to it for its members.
12:46:
Didn’t like that part of Netflix representation of their particular situation. They seem to emphasize it was all about plastic surgery and everyone having to do ballet. Netflix took it way over the edge. Everyone always brings up the Speedos in interviews labelling him the “speedo-wearing guru”. He was from Venezuela and often wore it but he also did not want to have tan lines. He also swam every day. It happens to be the footage that was available for the documentary taken during outings at the beach.
20:33:
His spiritual perspective she still subscribes to. Your body is your temple. Do not disrespect it but exercise and eat healthy and well. Otherwise, you are not presenting your higher self. Also, from an energetic standpoint. Their diet back then was no gluten, no dairy, no caffeine, no alcohol, no sugar. Best way to maintain your purest energy. 4 techniques of meditation, which he stole from other gurus. There was a method to his madness. Most followers were professionals practicing in the holistic fields from yoga instructors to nutritionists. Living in a community that was all in support of each other. That’s why it was so hard to leave.
23:55:
What about personal identities? The group started in Los Angeles in the late 70s, early 80s. there was a cult on every block. New thinking was a part of it all. Eastern philosophy entering the culture and mindset. They were hippies basically. Originally it had nothing to do with him but it was about enlightenment. Trying to move away from the dogma of Western Christianity. Reading about the relationship between disciple and the master.
26:32:
All this was feeding his narcissistic tendencies. His whole slogan was at first connect to God and I will show you how. This was their birth right. It was who they were and their relationship with God. He was there to teach and give the techniques. After a while, it all changed to connect to his love. Suddenly, he became a deity and started seeing himself that way. Power corrupting and the addiction of power and money. She did research on addiction. People selling their souls for positions, money, power, and success. A neurological neurochemical addiction as powerful as drug addictions.
29:02:
The goal was not to worship the master but to drop the ego as per Eastern philosophy. Buddhafield was a field of little Buddhas. Goal was to attain what buddha had attained or any other elevated master seen in history. As a child growing up Catholic enamored with the saints. A transcendental state transcending body and mind, and suffering. She was a willing participant in the teachings. Process of identifying the ego first and all the identities that come with it. Exercises of the analysis of all the personas that we take on, for instance as predators and prey. Drop who you think you were to explore other aspects of the self. Being a squirrel, an eagle, or even a seaweed in the ocean. What the pollution of the ocean felt like to gain compassion for our planet, animals, for ourselves, for everything. 150 people with different stories but one common thing they had: You had to be there. Being immersed in it and experiencing it to see and feel what it was like and not just observing it.
34:54:
On shakti and transferring power and enlightenment to others. At first, acted like a midwife to show others what to look for. The cult leader plagiarized everybody. He would study the shakti guru. Changed the term from “knowledge” to “knowing” and he wanted to make it special for himself. Open-eye meditation by staring into each other’s eyes forever. Practicing presence with each other. One night, he started giving shakti. Metamorphosis of this narcissist in front of their eyes and she confronted him on it. But it soon became a type of mass hysteria for the others and that fed his narcissistic ego. It fed itself through the power of conformity.
43:44:
He made sure that you doubted yourself. That was his goal. None of the guys being abused came forward. Karma a big deal for them. Some of them left but many of them did not want to return to this painful world. They did not want to miss out on the connections and sense of community. How a small group can develop into this sickness. They were all there and it was really complex and had nothing to do with education or intelligence. He made his living out of hypnotherapy. He knew how to play her. He would be different to each person, either friendly or violent. He was a chameleon and would be whatever they needed at the time.
