Closed Primaries, Open Rebellion and The Supreme Court with Chad Peace의 전체 녹취록

emphasis on election law. 00:03:03.290 --> 00:03:05.290 Speaker 0: Like you can't get any certificate or something. 00:03:05.290 --> 00:03:09.290 Speaker 0: But we had election law classes and there was a constitutional law 00:03:09.445 --> 00:03:12.005 Speaker 0: election law so I took them all. 00:03:12.005 --> 00:03:16.005 Speaker 0: And then it was really that period of time when I'm looking 00:03:16.165 --> 00:03:20.165 Speaker 0: at these cases in class and you realize how revolutionary 00:03:21.130 --> 00:03:23.210 Speaker 0: the nonpartisan primary is, right? 00:03:23.210 --> 00:03:26.650 Speaker 0: It just sounds like if you're not really you know, okay that's nice it's 00:03:26.650 --> 00:03:30.570 Speaker 0: nonpartisan primary, but you think about the principle and you look at the history 00:03:30.570 --> 00:03:32.825 Speaker 0: of case law in the United States. 00:03:32.825 --> 00:03:35.545 Speaker 0: It's always framed between 00:03:35.545 --> 00:03:38.265 Speaker 0: the political parties and the state. 00:03:38.265 --> 00:03:38.665 Speaker 0: Right? 00:03:38.665 --> 00:03:42.665 Speaker 0: So, if you take California's old open primary system, 00:03:43.465 --> 00:03:47.465 Speaker 0: both parties took that all the way to the courtroom and the decisions being 00:03:47.690 --> 00:03:50.810 Speaker 0: made based on the question asked to the court. 00:03:50.810 --> 00:03:54.810 Speaker 0: So it's the parties asking the question to the court, can you 00:03:54.890 --> 00:03:58.890 Speaker 0: allow nonmembers to participate in our primary elections? 00:03:59.130 --> 00:04:03.130 Speaker 0: And the court says no because you have a first Amendment right to exclude 00:04:03.385 --> 00:04:05.705 Speaker 0: people who are not a part of your party. 00:04:05.705 --> 00:04:06.825 Speaker 0: Okay? 00:04:06.825 --> 00:04:09.545 Speaker 0: So if you think about that, what does that mean? 00:04:09.545 --> 00:04:13.545 Speaker 0: It means the parties have claimed entitlement to the primary election 00:04:13.705 --> 00:04:14.930 Speaker 0: process. 00:04:14.930 --> 00:04:18.930 Speaker 0: So most simply, we're asking a question just because nobody ever goes and represents 00:04:19.410 --> 00:04:20.930 Speaker 0: the individual voters. 00:04:20.930 --> 00:04:24.050 Speaker 0: Of course, we've had defense of voters based on group rights. 00:04:24.050 --> 00:04:24.370 Speaker 0: Right? 00:04:24.370 --> 00:04:27.170 Speaker 0: Like African American voters, women voters. 00:04:27.170 --> 00:04:27.410 Speaker 0: Right? 00:04:27.410 --> 00:04:31.410 Speaker 0: And those are all progression of our understanding of voting rights. 00:04:31.505 --> 00:04:32.625 Speaker 0: So everybody deserves them. 00:04:32.625 --> 00:04:35.905 Speaker 0: Doesn't matter whether you're black or gay or woman or straight, whatever. 00:04:35.905 --> 00:04:36.145 Speaker 0: Right? 00:04:36.145 --> 00:04:38.305 Speaker 0: We get our rights as individuals. 00:04:38.305 --> 00:04:42.305

Speaker 0: So most simply, our whole 00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:46.400 Speaker 0: election reform is simply asking the courts and and frankly our elected 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:49.280 Speaker 0: officials a question 00:04:49.280 --> 00:04:51.520 Speaker 0: on behalf of individual voters. 00:04:51.520 --> 00:04:55.520 Speaker 0: If primaries are an integral stage, they're important part of our election 00:04:55.520 --> 00:04:57.035 Speaker 0: process. 00:04:57.035 --> 00:05:01.035 Speaker 0: Can you exclude me or her or him or anybody else 00:05:01.515 --> 00:05:05.515 Speaker 0: from that process that we fund that determines 00:05:06.395 --> 00:05:10.395 Speaker 0: who our representatives are because we chose, just like the parties, 00:05:11.050 --> 00:05:15.050 Speaker 0: a First Amendment right not to join a private association 00:05:15.690 --> 00:05:18.490 Speaker 0: being the Republican or Democratic parties. 00:05:18.490 --> 00:05:20.890 Speaker 0: That's simply the question, right? 00:05:20.890 --> 00:05:24.890 Speaker 0: So, that's the question we've asked the Supreme Court really three times 00:05:24.970 --> 00:05:28.970 Speaker 0: now and you can say well, you know, you're just justifying that you're a 00:05:28.975 --> 00:05:29.535 Speaker 0: loser. 00:05:29.535 --> 00:05:30.895 Speaker 0: May maybe I am. 00:05:30.895 --> 00:05:34.335 Speaker 0: But, yes, we haven't been picked up by the Supreme Court. 00:05:34.335 --> 00:05:38.335 Speaker 0: But the last time we filed on behalf of actually is a 00:05:38.335 --> 00:05:42.335 Speaker 0: great another great story on behalf of a a retired attorney 00:05:42.450 --> 00:05:46.210 Speaker 0: in Florida filed a very similar case to ours that we filed in New 00:05:46.210 --> 00:05:48.530 Speaker 0: Jersey and California. 00:05:48.530 --> 00:05:51.250 Speaker 0: And so we filed what's called an amicus brief. 00:05:51.250 --> 00:05:54.690 Speaker 0: And the brief says, look, we have two cases asking the same question. 00:05:54.690 --> 00:05:57.855 Speaker 0: The Ford party, the Andrew Yang's party signed on board. 00:05:57.855 --> 00:06:00.975 Speaker 0: Actually, the Libertarian party wanted to sign on board but they're a little bit 00:06:00.975 --> 00:06:02.175 Speaker 0: too late to the game. 00:06:02.175 --> 00:06:06.175 Speaker 0: An organization open primaries but I say all that because what's important 00:06:06.335 --> 00:06:10.335 Speaker 0: is about one and maybe a thousand cases get picked up 00:06:10.335 --> 00:06:12.840 Speaker 0: by the Supreme Court when you knock on their door. 00:06:12.840 --> 00:06:14.520 Speaker 0: Right? 00:06:14.520 --> 00:06:18.520 Speaker 0: About one and maybe five hundred go to what's 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:20.520 Speaker 0: called a conference, right? 00:06:20.520 --> 00:06:24.520 Speaker 0: Where the where the justices say look let's go have a meeting about 00:06:24.760 --> 00:06:25.080 Speaker 0: this. 00:06:25.080 --> 00:06:27.560 Speaker 0: This might be something we should consider. 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:30.515 Speaker 0: So we made that round. 00:06:30.515 --> 00:06:30.915 Speaker 0: Right? 00:06:30.915 --> 00:06:34.915 Speaker 0: So the last time they went to conference, we know the justices 00:06:35.315 --> 00:06:38.915 Speaker 0: sat down and said, hey, should we pick up this case? 00:06:38.915 --> 00:06:39.795 Speaker 0: Right? 00:06:39.795 --> 00:06:43.795 Speaker 0: So just like whether it's the the the gay rights 00:06:43.830 --> 00:06:47.830 Speaker 0: movement or or we're going back to segregation 00:06:48.070 --> 00:06:48.630 Speaker 0: and stuff. 00:06:48.630 --> 00:06:52.630 Speaker 0: Ultimately, those civil rights cases were one 00:06:52.630 --> 00:06:56.575 Speaker 0: when the Supreme Court made a decision, right? 00:06:56.575 --> 00:07:00.575 Speaker 0: So that's our legal case and then in the meantime, it's fighting for 00:07:00.575 --> 00:07:02.735 Speaker 0: and protecting 00:07:02.735 --> 00:07:06.735 Speaker 0: wins that we have had where in California for example, as is 00:07:06.735 --> 00:07:09.055 Speaker 0: in two other states, 00:07:09.055 --> 00:07:13.055 Speaker 0: there's the states have simply, well really it's the voters have simply said 00:07:13.280 --> 00:07:14.160 Speaker 0: no. 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:17.840 Speaker 0: The first stage of the election process doesn't belong to you two parties, it 00:07:17.840 --> 00:07:21.840 Speaker 0: belongs to the voters and therefore everybody is gonna be treated 00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:22.775 Speaker 0: the same. 00:07:22.775 --> 00:07:26.775 Speaker 0: And so that's maybe a mouthful but but that's 00:07:26.775 --> 00:07:27.895 Speaker 0: what we're up to. 00:07:27.895 --> 00:07:29.015 Speaker 1: I mean, I love it. 00:07:29.015 --> 00:07:33.015 Speaker 1: Well, you know, the independent voter, right, the independent party, it's 00:07:33.175 --> 00:07:36.455 Speaker 1: it's one of those things where right now, like, if anybody's like, I'm voting 00:07:36.455 --> 00:07:39.910 Speaker 1: third party, people will like attack them on social media, like, don't weaken the 00:07:39.910 --> 00:07:40.230 Speaker 1: vote. 00:07:40.230 --> 00:07:44.230 Speaker 1: But, like, I think a lot of people are more identifying with independent 00:07:44.550 --> 00:07:47.110 Speaker 1: or maybe just, like, not those guys. 00:07:47.110 --> 00:07:47.310 Speaker 1: Right? 00:07:47.270 --> 00:07:49.510 Speaker 1: I don't like, does that make me an independent? 00:07:49.510 --> 00:07:50.150 Speaker 1: I don't know. 00:07:50.150 --> 00:07:50.390 Speaker 1: Right? 00:07:50.390 --> 00:07:53.605 Speaker 1: So what who what is who is the independent voter? 00:07:53.605 --> 00:07:57.605 Speaker 1: Is that a growing, faction of people, or has it always been there 00:07:57.605 --> 00:07:59.925 Speaker 1: just not given the attention it deserves? 00:07:59.925 --> 00:08:02.965 Speaker 0: Well well, one, I think it's grown a lot. 00:08:02.965 --> 00:08:06.390

Speaker 0: I mean, if you go to, like, my parents and stuff in the older 00:08:06.390 --> 00:08:09.830 Speaker 0: generations, really, that, you know, you define you have it was more defining. 00:08:09.830 --> 00:08:10.070 Speaker 0: Right? 00:08:10.070 --> 00:08:11.590 Speaker 0: This is a Republican family. 00:08:11.590 --> 00:08:13.030 Speaker 0: This is a Democrat family. 00:08:13.030 --> 00:08:16.710 Speaker 0: I think, you know, I'm in my forties now, and we're the folks in 00:08:16.710 --> 00:08:20.710 Speaker 0: the working world kinda, you know, running businesses and having kids and stuff. 00:08:20.710 --> 00:08:24.710 Speaker 0: And, like, I don't know any of my friends that define themselves 00:08:24.905 --> 00:08:28.905 Speaker 0: as, you know, even even my Republican friends, Democrat friends, it's it's 00:08:28.985 --> 00:08:31.305 Speaker 0: not by definition of who they are. 00:08:31.305 --> 00:08:31.705 Speaker 0: Right? 00:08:31.705 --> 00:08:32.025 Speaker 0: Right. 00:08:32.025 --> 00:08:35.065 Speaker 0: And we see that all the way down, and the younger generations are really 00:08:35.065 --> 00:08:35.625 Speaker 0: rejecting it. 00:08:35.625 --> 00:08:39.200 Speaker 0: They're like, we have five thousand choices of everything and you're telling me I 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:40.720 Speaker 0: gotta pick that. 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:43.760 Speaker 0: All of the things they agree with or all of the things they agree 00:08:43.760 --> 00:08:46.800 Speaker 0: with and that's what I get that's my political participation. 00:08:46.800 --> 00:08:47.440 Speaker 0: Right? 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:50.775 Speaker 0: So you you see that represented in the in the polling that you know, 00:08:50.775 --> 00:08:54.615 Speaker 0: almost fifty percent of people now say I'm an independent voter. 00:08:54.615 --> 00:08:57.495 Speaker 0: But your question, you know, people always ask me what is an independent vote? 00:08:57.495 --> 00:08:58.935 Speaker 0: Like what are independent voters saying? 00:08:58.935 --> 00:08:59.735 Speaker 0: I go, I don't know. 00:08:59.735 --> 00:09:01.175 Speaker 0: Maybe you should ask them, right? 00:09:01.175 --> 00:09:02.375 Speaker 0: That's part of the problem. 00:09:02.375 --> 00:09:05.870 Speaker 0: These pollsters and the media, they never ask independent voters. 00:09:05.870 --> 00:09:09.870 Speaker 0: They only ask them within the with a loaded question 00:09:10.350 --> 00:09:10.910 Speaker 0: Mhmm. 00:09:10.910 --> 00:09:14.750 Speaker 0: In the context of the Republican and Democratic conversation. 00:09:14.750 --> 00:09:18.750 Speaker 0: But I always say, look, we're the small I Independent Voter Project. 00:09:18.775 --> 00:09:19.015 Speaker 0: Okay. 00:09:19.015 --> 00:09:23.015 Speaker 0: Which means there can be people that are left of the Democratic Party, right 00:09:23.015 --> 00:09:27.015 Speaker 0: of the Republican Party, people in the Republican Party, people in the Democratic 00:09:27.335 --> 00:09:28.055 Speaker 0: Party. 00:09:28.055 --> 00:09:31.920 Speaker 0: We define independent by thinking for yourself, Right? 00:09:31.920 --> 00:09:35.920 Speaker 0: Not saying all of my positions are represented by whatever 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:40.080 Speaker 0: the party decides at their convention is the position I have 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:41.760 Speaker 0: to take for everything. 00:09:41.760 --> 00:09:42.080 Speaker 0: Right? 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:43.920 Speaker 0: And that's our definition independent voter. 00:09:43.920 --> 00:09:47.920 Speaker 0: And what it comes down to is every individual has different perspectives, has 00:09:48.095 --> 00:09:51.855 Speaker 0: different beliefs, has different reasons for why they do different things. 00:09:51.855 --> 00:09:55.855 Speaker 0: And we can only have a government that truly represents 00:09:55.935 --> 00:09:59.560 Speaker 0: us if you're allowed to hold different positions. 00:09:59.560 --> 00:10:01.320 Speaker 0: So that's that's all we're trying to do. 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:05.320 Speaker 0: We're trying to realign the incentives which right now the election process 00:10:05.560 --> 00:10:09.560 Speaker 0: and frankly the whole political industry has incentivized people just to, 00:10:10.280 --> 00:10:12.280 Speaker 0: you know, be saluters. 00:10:12.280 --> 00:10:16.280 Speaker 0: And, you know, we reject that philosophy and, you know, 00:10:16.445 --> 00:10:20.445 Speaker 0: so we we bring on the ire of both sides. 00:10:20.685 --> 00:10:24.685 Speaker 0: Just like Donald Trump's been attacking the nonpartisan primary in 00:10:24.685 --> 00:10:28.685 Speaker 0: Alaska, it's it's Democrats and folks on the left that attack the nonpartisan 00:10:29.030 --> 00:10:30.390 Speaker 0: primary in California. 00:10:30.390 --> 00:10:33.990 Speaker 0: It's truly I mean, you see the similar thing with the gerrymandering. 00:10:33.990 --> 00:10:34.790 Speaker 0: Right? 00:10:34.790 --> 00:10:38.710 Speaker 0: They both grandstand when it's in a state they don't control saying, oh, look 00:10:38.710 --> 00:10:39.430 Speaker 0: at them. 00:10:39.430 --> 00:10:41.705 Speaker 0: They're abusing the political process. 00:10:41.705 --> 00:10:44.825 Speaker 0: And then they go well but we're gonna do it in states we control 00:10:44.825 --> 00:10:46.905 Speaker 0: because they're doing it in states they control. 00:10:46.905 --> 00:10:47.225 Speaker 0: Right? 00:10:47.225 --> 00:10:49.305 Speaker 0: And so and it's just a cyclical thing. 00:10:49.305 --> 00:10:51.945 Speaker 0: So who always loses in every single fight? 00:10:51.945 --> 00:10:53.385 Speaker 1: The voters. 00:10:53.385 --> 00:10:57.385 Speaker 0: The small I independent voter that says, I don't care about your 00:10:57.440 --> 00:10:59.520 Speaker 0: little bullshit game. 00:10:59.520 --> 00:11:00.560 Speaker 0: Sorry, but I'm sorry. 00:11:00.560 --> 00:11:01.440 Speaker 0: We're my friends. 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:02.320 Speaker 0:

Right? 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.160 Speaker 0: So really, we're just saying, look. 00:11:04.160 --> 00:11:08.160 Speaker 0: You got a bunch of players out there playing a game and 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:10.000 Speaker 0: where are the umpires? 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:10.565 Speaker 0: Right? 00:11:10.565 --> 00:11:14.165 Speaker 0: Can't we just have a few umpires that are that are calling balls and 00:11:14.165 --> 00:11:15.285 Speaker 0: strikes fairly? 00:11:15.285 --> 00:11:16.325 Speaker 1: Real shots. 00:11:16.325 --> 00:11:16.725 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:11:16.725 --> 00:11:17.365 Speaker 0: Right? 00:11:17.365 --> 00:11:21.365 Speaker 1: Well and especially now when you know, I I don't really know 00:11:21.445 --> 00:11:24.325 Speaker 1: what's going on too much in the Republican party because I I I I 00:11:24.325 --> 00:11:25.870 Speaker 1: do everything I can to ignore that. 00:11:25.870 --> 00:11:28.910 Speaker 1: But I know in the Democratic side, it's like, we're you know, we don't 00:11:28.910 --> 00:11:29.470 Speaker 1: like Schumer. 00:11:29.470 --> 00:11:31.150 Speaker 1: We don't like we don't like Jeffries. 00:11:31.150 --> 00:11:32.030 Speaker 1: We don't like Booker. 00:11:32.030 --> 00:11:35.470 Speaker 1: Like, we want those guys out, and no matter what we say, they don't 00:11:35.470 --> 00:11:36.190 Speaker 1: listen. 00:11:36.190 --> 00:11:37.790 Speaker 1: We say we want Israel out. 00:11:37.790 --> 00:11:38.830 Speaker 1: We want APAC out. 00:11:38.830 --> 00:11:39.790 Speaker 1: What does Schumer do? 00:11:39.790 --> 00:11:43.445 Speaker 1: He goes and, like, goes to Israel the same week he's supposed to be 00:11:43.445 --> 00:11:47.445 Speaker 1: working and praises I mean, it's like it's bizarro world. 00:11:47.685 --> 00:11:47.925 Speaker 1: Right? 00:11:47.925 --> 00:11:51.445 Speaker 1: And I know inside the Democratic party, there's just a lot of splintering because 00:11:51.445 --> 00:11:53.100 Speaker 1: it doesn't represent us anymore. 00:11:53.100 --> 00:11:55.900 Speaker 1: It it I don't I don't know if it ever did, but it definitely 00:11:55.900 --> 00:11:56.540 Speaker 1: doesn't now. 00:11:56.540 --> 00:11:59.580 Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter how much we scream, nothing changes. 00:11:59.580 --> 00:12:03.580 Speaker 1: And Schumer's still a representative, and he's not speaking 00:12:03.980 --> 00:12:07.500 Speaker 1: for his well, I don't know if he has constituents, but he's not speaking 00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:08.535 Speaker 1: for the party anymore. 00:12:08.535 --> 00:12:09.015 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 00:12:09.015 --> 00:12:13.015 Speaker 1: I think these next elections I just saw in, 00:12:13.895 --> 00:12:14.695 Speaker 1: where was it? 00:12:14.695 --> 00:12:15.575 Speaker 1: Some state. 00:12:15.575 --> 00:12:16.615 Speaker 1: Oh, I can't think of it. 00:12:16.615 --> 00:12:18.935 Speaker 1: I just saw it, but they had a bunch of elections, and they all 00:12:18.935 --> 00:12:20.455 Speaker 1: went progressive, all of them. 00:12:20.455 --> 00:12:23.895 Speaker 1: Like, it was no no like, it was all progressive. 00:12:23.895 --> 00:12:24.890 Speaker 1: One every single election. 00:12:24.890 --> 00:12:27.090 Speaker 1: It was, like, twelve elections in some state. 00:12:27.090 --> 00:12:28.610 Speaker 1: Every single one went progressive. 00:12:28.610 --> 00:12:31.010 Speaker 1: So I really feel like we're heading in that direction. 00:12:31.010 --> 00:12:33.890 Speaker 1: So let let's talk about who's pushing back on this. 00:12:33.890 --> 00:12:34.130 Speaker 1: Right? 00:12:34.130 --> 00:12:36.210 Speaker 1: Like, who wins, 00:12:36.210 --> 00:12:40.210 Speaker 1: you know, when election reform doesn't happen? 00:12:40.905 --> 00:12:43.385 Speaker 0: Party leadership, most simply. 00:12:43.385 --> 00:12:47.385 Speaker 0: Leadership party leadership and the people who fund who in the special interest. 00:12:47.705 --> 00:12:47.945 Speaker 0: Right? 00:12:47.945 --> 00:12:49.705 Speaker 0: And it's most it's it's real simple. 00:12:49.705 --> 00:12:51.545 Speaker 0: Take take New Jersey. 00:12:51.545 --> 00:12:53.305 Speaker 0: That's where we filed our first case. 00:12:53.305 --> 00:12:54.500 Speaker 0: Mhmm. 00:12:54.500 --> 00:12:58.500 Speaker 0: They have purely closed primaries which means you don't join a party, you can't 00:12:58.580 --> 00:12:59.780 Speaker 0: vote. 00:12:59.780 --> 00:13:03.220 Speaker 0: The decision there that we challenged at the Third Circuit, we said, you know, 00:13:03.220 --> 00:13:06.340 Speaker 0: right, we said look that's a violation of our First Amendment right. 00:13:06.340 --> 00:13:10.340 Speaker 0: Literally, the state of the law, they issued a one judge 00:13:10.375 --> 00:13:14.375 Speaker 0: signed on to the the unpublished opinion, which means, hey, nobody 00:13:14.615 --> 00:13:16.375 Speaker 0: else should be citing this case. 00:13:16.375 --> 00:13:20.375 Speaker 0: But we're and nevertheless, this is gonna be our decision is when 00:13:20.455 --> 00:13:24.455 Speaker 0: voters are confronted between a choice of whether depart whether to participate 00:13:24.880 --> 00:13:28.880 Speaker 0: in a primary election or whether not to join a party, 00:13:28.880 --> 00:13:32.800 Speaker 0: if voters want to participate, they should simply join the party. 00:13:32.800 --> 00:13:34.800 Speaker 0: That's the language from the court. 00:13:34.800 --> 00:13:36.505 Speaker 0: Simply join the party. 00:13:36.505 --> 00:13:38.185 Speaker 0: Which is what we're challenging. 00:13:38.185 --> 00:13:38.425 Speaker 0: Right? 00:13:38.425 --> 00:13:40.985 Speaker 0: We're saying are you serious? 00:13:40.985 --> 00:13:44.745 Speaker 0: This is America, you know, there's a First Amendment right not to join a 00:13:44.745 --> 00:13:45.545 Speaker 0: party. 00:13:45.545 --> 00:13:49.225 Speaker 0: And so, you know, it's that con that conflict and you say well why? 00:13:49.225 --> 00:13:50.265

Speaker 0: That seems pretty simple. 00:13:50.265 --> 00:13:53.140 Speaker 0: The common person, you don't have to have a law degree to understand that 00:13:53.140 --> 00:13:55.700 Speaker 0: that that seems like it's conflicting with a right of ours. 00:13:55.700 --> 00:13:59.220 Speaker 0: You say well what does a decision in our favor mean? 00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:01.780 Speaker 0: It upends the entire election process. 00:14:01.780 --> 00:14:05.215 Speaker 0: But getting back to your question, why do the folks who who control the 00:14:05.215 --> 00:14:06.895 Speaker 0: system wanna keep it that way? 00:14:06.895 --> 00:14:09.455 Speaker 0: Well, if you have closed primaries, 00:14:09.455 --> 00:14:11.135 Speaker 0: on top of that, you have gerrymandering. 00:14:11.135 --> 00:14:15.135 Speaker 0: In in New Jersey, there was not one single on a state basis. 00:14:15.375 --> 00:14:19.375 Speaker 0: Not one race was decided between within ten election points when 00:14:19.390 --> 00:14:20.750 Speaker 0: we filed the lawsuit. 00:14:20.750 --> 00:14:24.750 Speaker 0: Ten points, which means there's zero competition in the general. 00:14:25.390 --> 00:14:26.750 Speaker 0: Which means what's important? 00:14:26.750 --> 00:14:28.590 Speaker 0: The primary. 00:14:28.590 --> 00:14:32.590 Speaker 0: Now, I don't know some states you may have thirty, forty, fifty 00:14:32.985 --> 00:14:34.265 Speaker 0: percent turnout. 00:14:34.265 --> 00:14:37.945 Speaker 0: New Jersey's turnouts like ten percent in their primaries. 00:14:37.945 --> 00:14:39.305 Speaker 0: Ten. 00:14:39.305 --> 00:14:42.505 Speaker 0: So break that up say it's five and five. 00:14:42.505 --> 00:14:46.505 Speaker 0: Five in the Democrat, five in the Republican and then you have plurality elections. 00:14:46.745 --> 00:14:47.240 Speaker 0: Okay? 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:48.920 Speaker 0: Three four candidates. 00:14:48.920 --> 00:14:52.920 Speaker 0: You can you can win a race with three percent of the electorate because 00:14:52.920 --> 00:14:55.400 Speaker 0: there's no general, doesn't matter. 00:14:55.400 --> 00:14:58.280 Speaker 0: So if you have a lot of money, 00:14:58.280 --> 00:14:59.560 Speaker 0: what do you want to do? 00:14:59.560 --> 00:15:03.560 Speaker 0: I only have to convince these three percent, 00:15:03.615 --> 00:15:03.855 Speaker 0: Right? 00:15:03.855 --> 00:15:07.855 Speaker 0: Why would I want why would I want a process where more people can 00:15:07.855 --> 00:15:11.615 Speaker 0: vote who I don't know who how they're gonna vote because they're not so 00:15:11.615 --> 00:15:15.615 Speaker 0: devoutly partisan that they might think for themselves. 00:15:15.660 --> 00:15:15.980 Speaker 0: Right. 00:15:15.980 --> 00:15:19.020 Speaker 0: Why would I want why would I wanna have to go into the competition 00:15:19.020 --> 00:15:22.460 Speaker 0: of a general election where I don't know what's gonna be a outcome in 00:15:22.460 --> 00:15:23.900 Speaker 0: a competitive

general election? 00:15:23.900 --> 00:15:27.900 Speaker 0: I wanna know who I gonna pick before the 00:15:27.900 --> 00:15:29.180 Speaker 0: election even starts. 00:15:29.180 --> 00:15:29.945 Speaker 0: Right? 00:15:29.945 --> 00:15:33.945 Speaker 0: So that is this not picking on the Democrats or the Republicans because 00:15:34.265 --> 00:15:36.185 Speaker 0: they both do it. 00:15:36.185 --> 00:15:37.065 Speaker 0: Both of them. 00:15:37.065 --> 00:15:41.065 Speaker 0: And what you're seeing on the Democratic side, the infighting is the exact same 00:15:41.225 --> 00:15:42.505 Speaker 0: thing you are seeing on there. 00:15:42.505 --> 00:15:44.400 Speaker 0: That's happening in the Republican 00:15:44.400 --> 00:15:45.120 Speaker 1: imagine so. 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.240 Speaker 1: I would hope so for crying out loud, to be honest, 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:48.560 Speaker 0: you know. 00:15:48.560 --> 00:15:49.280 Speaker 0: Well, it is. 00:15:49.280 --> 00:15:53.280 Speaker 0: And and the problem is because of the way the system is constructed, 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:58.720 Speaker 0: leadership has such a heavy hammer that, you know, you 00:15:59.015 --> 00:16:02.135 Speaker 0: people hear the term primaried. 00:16:02.135 --> 00:16:02.775 Speaker 0: Right? 00:16:02.775 --> 00:16:04.695 Speaker 0: I'm gonna primary them. 00:16:04.695 --> 00:16:06.695 Speaker 0: Well, what does that mean? 00:16:06.695 --> 00:16:07.095 Speaker 1: Right. 00:16:07.095 --> 00:16:11.095 Speaker 0: That means you can take away a representative in a slow turnout 00:16:11.335 --> 00:16:15.335 Speaker 0: primary when three percent of the electorate can take 00:16:15.370 --> 00:16:16.330 Speaker 0: them out. 00:16:16.330 --> 00:16:19.610 Speaker 0: Like maybe they deserve to be taken out, but let's take them out with 00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:22.730 Speaker 0: everybody not take them out with three percent of the electorate. 00:16:22.730 --> 00:16:23.050 Speaker 0: Right? 00:16:23.050 --> 00:16:27.050 Speaker 0: So that's all we're saying is that there's a very small 00:16:27.210 --> 00:16:31.035 Speaker 0: and vocal group that really controls, 00:16:31.035 --> 00:16:35.035 Speaker 0: the the the levers, and it's really the, you 00:16:35.115 --> 00:16:38.075 Speaker 0: know, that's really all that matters. 00:16:38.075 --> 00:16:40.795 Speaker 0: And you know, you go all the way to the presidential elections. 00:16:40.795 --> 00:16:44.730 Speaker 0: Why are we why why do eight states matter and nobody else does? 00:16:44.730 --> 00:16:45.370 Speaker 1: Right. 00:16:45.370 --> 00:16:45.570 Speaker 1: Right. 00:16:45.530 --> 00:16:48.010 Speaker 1: Well, I'm from DC, so don't get me started. 00:16:48.010 --> 00:16:50.890 Speaker 1: I'm like, we pay the highest taxes and have no representation. 00:16:50.890 --> 00:16:54.250 Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, we we've been talking about statehood and all that 00:16:54.250 --> 00:16:55.130 Speaker 1: for a long time. 00:16:55.130 --> 00:16:55.690 Speaker 1: So it's a 00:16:55.690 --> 00:16:56.074 Speaker 0: Right. 00:16:56.074 --> 00:16:56.274 Speaker 0: It's 00:16:56.266 --> 00:16:57.210 Speaker 1: a whole with 00:16:57.210 --> 00:16:58.170 Speaker 0: no representation. 00:16:58.170 --> 00:16:59.875 Speaker 1: We've been putting our license plates. 00:16:59.875 --> 00:17:03.875 Speaker 0: That's the nonpartisan primaries with ranked choice voting and that was pretty revolutionary. 00:17:04.835 --> 00:17:05.635 Speaker 0: Right? 00:17:05.635 --> 00:17:09.635 Speaker 0: And I point to that as one of the largest successes of the reform 00:17:09.715 --> 00:17:10.115 Speaker 0: space. 00:17:10.115 --> 00:17:10.995 Speaker 0: Why? 00:17:10.995 --> 00:17:13.890 Speaker 0: Because it is a one party city. 00:17:13.890 --> 00:17:14.450 Speaker 0: Right? 00:17:14.450 --> 00:17:16.210 Speaker 0: Defact. 00:17:16.210 --> 00:17:20.210 Speaker 0: Overwhelmingly Democrat where okay take take New 00:17:20.930 --> 00:17:21.650 Speaker 0: York. 00:17:21.650 --> 00:17:21.970 Speaker 0: Okay? 00:17:21.970 --> 00:17:25.970 Speaker 0: Everybody everybody tries to compare ranked choice like it's the same everywhere. 00:17:26.210 --> 00:17:30.210 Speaker 0: My view is, okay, do it anywhere and it's better 00:17:30.365 --> 00:17:31.965 Speaker 0: than what you had before. 00:17:31.965 --> 00:17:32.525 Speaker 0: Okay? 00:17:32.525 --> 00:17:36.045 Speaker 0: Because you're giving some folks more choice, but there's fundamentally different ways to do 00:17:36.045 --> 00:17:36.525 Speaker 0: it. 00:17:36.525 --> 00:17:40.445 Speaker 0: The reason why you have ranked choice voting in a closed primary in New 00:17:40.445 --> 00:17:44.445 Speaker 0: Jersey is that was a deal struck between the reformers 00:17:44.780 --> 00:17:48.780 Speaker 0: and the establishment that said look the Democratic 00:17:49.020 --> 00:17:51.100 Speaker 0: establishment controls New York. 00:17:51.100 --> 00:17:52.140 Speaker 0: Okay? 00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:52.780 Speaker 0: I get it. 00:17:52.780 --> 00:17:54.220 Speaker 0: You want more competition. 00:17:54.220 --> 00:17:55.820 Speaker 0: You guys want to reform it. 00:17:55.820 --> 00:17:59.795 Speaker 0: We'll do it, But just do it in the primary because if you do 00:17:59.795 --> 00:18:03.795 Speaker 0: it in the general, we we worry that maybe a third party or 00:18:03.955 --> 00:18:07.955 Speaker 0: for god forbid a a Republican might actually win because that would introduce 00:18:08.035 --> 00:18:08.995 Speaker 0: competition. 00:18:08.995 --> 00:18:12.600 Speaker 0: So let's limit that competition into our own primary. 00:18:12.600 --> 00:18:15.960 Speaker 0: And that way at least we're gonna have somebody that's that's our guy or 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:17.640 Speaker 0: girl win. 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:17.880 Speaker 0: Right? 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:21.880 Speaker 0: What what DC did was fundamentally different. 00:18:22.360 --> 00:18:26.360

Speaker 0: They said, let's have nonpartisan primaries. 00:18:27.315 --> 00:18:31.315 Speaker 0: So everybody competes on the same terms on the primary 00:18:31.315 --> 00:18:35.315 Speaker 0: and let's allow us to rank in the general election. 00:18:35.955 --> 00:18:39.955 Speaker 0: So the party and the voters is truly agnostic. 00:18:40.910 --> 00:18:44.910 Speaker 0: It's a it's a level playing field for everybody and, you know, whether they 00:18:44.990 --> 00:18:48.350 Speaker 0: get to the final implementation of that and they actually do it, I don't 00:18:48.350 --> 00:18:51.070 Speaker 0: know I actually don't know where exactly where you're at right now on a 00:18:51.070 --> 00:18:55.070 Speaker 0: municipal level, but the implementation can obviously, hang things 00:18:55.125 --> 00:18:56.405 Speaker 0: up for a while. 00:18:56.405 --> 00:18:59.125 Speaker 0: But that's a revolutionary 00:18:59.125 --> 00:19:01.685 Speaker 0: version of ranked choice voting. 00:19:01.685 --> 00:19:05.685 Speaker 0: Not that others aren't don't have some component of revolutionary nature but 00:19:05.845 --> 00:19:09.450 Speaker 0: you know it's much more similar to what they did in Alaska. 00:19:09.450 --> 00:19:09.690 Speaker 0: Right? 00:19:09.690 --> 00:19:13.050 Speaker 0: And Alaska has what they call top four primaries. 00:19:13.050 --> 00:19:17.050 Speaker 0: So you take it's Alaska and California are similar in that everybody's treated the 00:19:17.130 --> 00:19:21.130 Speaker 0: same in the primary and then in California 00:19:21.210 --> 00:19:25.210 Speaker 0: to advance to the general election to compete regardless of party and Alaska 00:19:25.545 --> 00:19:26.585 Speaker 0: four advance. 00:19:26.585 --> 00:19:27.225 Speaker 0: Right? 00:19:27.225 --> 00:19:31.225 Speaker 0: Now why does Trump go on one of his Twitter Twitter rages, 00:19:31.945 --> 00:19:35.945 Speaker 0: a couple weeks ago against Alaska, a Republican 00:19:36.100 --> 00:19:40.100 Speaker 0: state where they have a Murkowski is a Republican senator. 00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:41.700 Speaker 0: Right? 00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:45.300 Speaker 0: Well, because Murkowski doesn't do everything Trump says. 00:19:45.300 --> 00:19:45.860 Speaker 0: Right? 00:19:45.860 --> 00:19:48.675 Speaker 0: And he's frustrated because, well, how does she survive? 00:19:48.675 --> 00:19:51.155 Speaker 0: This is a Republican state. 00:19:51.155 --> 00:19:53.155 Speaker 0: I should be picking the senators in this state. 00:19:53.155 --> 00:19:54.435 Speaker 0: She's right? 00:19:54.435 --> 00:19:58.435 Speaker 0: Well, she survives because you have a nonpartisan primary with ranked choice 00:19:58.675 --> 00:20:02.675 Speaker 0: voting and her incentives are not to represent 00:20:03.250 --> 00:20:07.250 Speaker 0: the small faction of the the relatively small faction of the Republican 00:20:07.650 --> 00:20:11.090 Speaker 0: Party that will do everything the leadership says. 00:20:11.090 --> 00:20:14.690 Speaker 0: Her incentives are to represent a broader electorate of people. 00:20:14.690 --> 00:20:17.505 Speaker 0: And so that's how she survives. 00:20:17.505 --> 00:20:17.985 Speaker 0: Right? 00:20:17.985 --> 00:20:21.985 Speaker 0: And so it's this but I'm not picking on Donald Trump. 00:20:22.545 --> 00:20:26.385 Speaker 0: Because the Democratic leadership does the exact same thing. 00:20:26.385 --> 00:20:30.305 Speaker 0: So in terms of what's next, right, we have not announced this to the 00:20:30.305 --> 00:20:31.990 Speaker 0: world yet. 00:20:31.990 --> 00:20:34.070 Speaker 0: But I represent Independent Voter Project. 00:20:34.070 --> 00:20:35.830 Speaker 0: We authored the top two primary. 00:20:35.830 --> 00:20:39.590 Speaker 0: I took bullets from the rank choice voting community, the third parties, all that. 00:20:39.590 --> 00:20:40.870 Speaker 0: Why are you doing top two? 00:20:40.870 --> 00:20:42.950 Speaker 0: Because that just insulates the two parties. 00:20:42.950 --> 00:20:43.750 Speaker 0: Right? 00:20:43.750 --> 00:20:47.085 Speaker 0: Our primary purpose was to take out the one fundamental thing. 00:20:47.085 --> 00:20:47.885 Speaker 0: Right? 00:20:47.885 --> 00:20:50.125 Speaker 0: Parties don't belong to the parties. 00:20:50.125 --> 00:20:53.165 Speaker 0: I mean primaries don't belong to the parties, they belong to the voters. 00:20:53.165 --> 00:20:56.445 Speaker 0: That was the nonpartisan primary with top two. 00:20:56.445 --> 00:20:59.165 Speaker 0: We are now, what's next, saying you know what? 00:20:59.165 --> 00:20:59.725 Speaker 0: You're right. 00:20:59.725 --> 00:21:02.060 Speaker 0: Alaska's even better. 00:21:02.060 --> 00:21:02.700 Speaker 0: Right? 00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:06.700 Speaker 0: And we are going to author and introduce a top four primary 00:21:06.860 --> 00:21:08.380 Speaker 0: for California. 00:21:08.380 --> 00:21:09.020 Speaker 0: Right? 00:21:09.020 --> 00:21:11.900 Speaker 0: And so why is that next? 00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:15.900 Speaker 0: Well, you see all the media and everybody from Steve 00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:19.900 Speaker 0: Hilton on the right who's, you know, got Trump's endorsement 00:21:20.525 --> 00:21:24.525 Speaker 0: to the folks the the voices on the left are saying look at this 00:21:24.605 --> 00:21:26.525 Speaker 0: crazy situation in California. 00:21:26.525 --> 00:21:28.925 Speaker 0: Blame it on the top two primary. 00:21:28.925 --> 00:21:29.325 Speaker 0: Right? 00:21:29.325 --> 00:21:31.720 Speaker 0: Well, what are they really doing? 00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:35.080 Speaker 0: They're saying look at this unusual circumstances. 00:21:35.080 --> 00:21:38.760 Speaker 0: Look what somebody might get elected that you might fear is not who you 00:21:38.760 --> 00:21:39.720 Speaker 0: want. 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.120 Speaker 0: Therefore, we should get rid of the top two primary. 00:21:42.120 --> 00:21:43.080 Speaker 0: And what will they do?

00:21:43.080 --> 00:21:44.680 Speaker 0: They'll go back to closed primaries. 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:45.805 Speaker 1: Mhmm. 00:21:45.805 --> 00:21:47.005 Speaker 0: K? 00:21:47.005 --> 00:21:48.925 Speaker 0: All we're saying is, okay. 00:21:48.925 --> 00:21:51.805 Speaker 0: Justified, it could be better. 00:21:51.805 --> 00:21:54.525 Speaker 0: Well, then why don't we just do what Alaska did and go to top 00:21:54.525 --> 00:21:56.205 Speaker 0: four instead of top two? 00:21:56.205 --> 00:21:58.125 Speaker 0: So that's what we're doing. 00:21:58.125 --> 00:22:02.125 Speaker 0: We have a, a core campaign with some, 00:22:02.760 --> 00:22:06.760 Speaker 0: I don't know how else to describe it, but folks that usually aren't on 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.920 Speaker 0: committees together because they come from different parts of the political sphere who are 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:13.735 Speaker 0: very excited about, you know what? 00:22:13.735 --> 00:22:17.255 Speaker 0: Let's this is a time to come together and do something that's gonna, you 00:22:17.255 --> 00:22:21.255 Speaker 0: know, frankly upset people on our own side, the factions 00:22:21.495 --> 00:22:24.935 Speaker 0: on our own side that want the status quo. 00:22:24.935 --> 00:22:25.255 Speaker 0: Right? 00:22:25.255 --> 00:22:28.080 Speaker 0: So that's what's next for us. 00:22:28.080 --> 00:22:31.440 Speaker 0: It's probably the biggest fight we'll ever go into. 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:33.600 Speaker 0: We're way out resourced, but you know what? 00:22:33.600 --> 00:22:36.560 Speaker 0: We were way out resourced when we did the top two primary. 00:22:36.560 --> 00:22:40.000 Speaker 0: Both political parties were against us. 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:43.685 Speaker 0: We were a combination of being lucky, 00:22:43.685 --> 00:22:47.685 Speaker 0: having things in place at the right time and we snuck it 00:22:47.685 --> 00:22:48.405 Speaker 0: through. 00:22:48.405 --> 00:22:52.005 Speaker 0: And they didn't they didn't know we were doing remember when I was I 00:22:52.005 --> 00:22:56.005 Speaker 0: said I was hired to to turn out independent voters to vote for 00:22:56.050 --> 00:22:59.970 Speaker 0: this initiative, which ironically was on a primary election ballot. 00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:02.530 Speaker 0: They never expected the level of turnout 00:23:02.530 --> 00:23:03.010 Speaker 1: Right. 00:23:03.010 --> 00:23:07.010 Speaker 0: That came, which is why they woke up, it passed, 00:23:07.170 --> 00:23:09.015 Speaker 0: and they said crap. 00:23:09.015 --> 00:23:09.815 Speaker 0: Right? 00:23:09.815 --> 00:23:12.935 Speaker 0: So we're not gonna be able to be that stealth about it this time, 00:23:12.935 --> 00:23:16.535 Speaker 0: but the good news is when we pull this stuff, I mean, we're in 00:23:16.535 --> 00:23:20.535 Speaker 0: a democratic state, when we pull this stuff, believe it or not, 00:23:20.535 --> 00:23:22.460 Speaker 0: democrats support it. 00:23:22.460 --> 00:23:26.460 Speaker 0: Just that your your small d, you know, Democrat that's not 00:23:26.780 --> 00:23:30.220 Speaker 0: it doesn't have any vested interest in the, you know, not trying to climb 00:23:30.220 --> 00:23:31.820 Speaker 0: the party ladder. 00:23:31.820 --> 00:23:34.220 Speaker 0: They're like ninety percent support it. 00:23:34.220 --> 00:23:35.175 Speaker 0: Mhmm. 00:23:35.175 --> 00:23:35.815 Speaker 0: Right? 00:23:35.815 --> 00:23:39.015 Speaker 0: So now all we're doing is gonna go out there and say, alright, if 00:23:39.015 --> 00:23:42.375 Speaker 0: you're really against this, tell your voters that you're against it. 00:23:42.375 --> 00:23:46.215 Speaker 0: Let them know where you really stand because you go out there talking about 00:23:46.215 --> 00:23:50.215 Speaker 0: how you're the great protectors 00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:56.660 Speaker 0: voter rights initiative and if you oppose it, you ought to be public about 00:23:56.660 --> 00:24:00.660 Speaker 0: it and let people know you do not support the equal right 00:24:00.675 --> 00:24:04.675 Speaker 0: to vote and you do not support more choice mostly. 00:24:04.995 --> 00:24:06.115 Speaker 1: I mean, that's fair. 00:24:06.115 --> 00:24:09.795 Speaker 1: You know, it really got me thinking about, you know, that three percent number 00:24:09.795 --> 00:24:13.155 Speaker 1: and when it's closed primary, how easy it is, like, with money. 00:24:13.155 --> 00:24:13.355 Speaker 1: Right? 00:24:13.315 --> 00:24:16.270 Speaker 1: Like, we talk about getting money out of politics when we think about APAC. 00:24:16.270 --> 00:24:20.270 Speaker 1: We think about these big things, but it can really boil down to something 00:24:20.430 --> 00:24:24.430 Speaker 1: such small little elections like this or big elections to small groups of 00:24:24.510 --> 00:24:26.830 Speaker 1: people, not that much money. 00:24:26.830 --> 00:24:29.870 Speaker 1: I've been in digital media for, you know, multimedia for twenty five years. 00:24:29.870 --> 00:24:33.645 Speaker 1: Like, you know, well crafted campaigns and viral content. 00:24:33.645 --> 00:24:33.885 Speaker 1: Right? 00:24:33.885 --> 00:24:36.125 Speaker 1: I mean, we can look at Becerra right now. 00:24:36.125 --> 00:24:36.445 Speaker 1: Right? 00:24:36.445 --> 00:24:38.045 Speaker 1: Like, he is killing it. 00:24:38.045 --> 00:24:38.285 Speaker 1: Right? 00:24:38.285 --> 00:24:40.365 Speaker 1: Like, he popped up on threads a week. 00:24:40.365 --> 00:24:42.285 Speaker 1: I've watched this entire thing happen. 00:24:42.285 --> 00:24:45.210 Speaker 1: He popped up on threads with eighteen hundred followers. 00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:47.370 Speaker 1: He's now at forty five thousand. 00:24:47.370 --> 00:24:49.370 Speaker 1: People are rallying around him. 00:24:49.370 --> 00:24:53.370 Speaker 1: He just hired the same team that I think did, like, Newsom or Mamdani. 00:24:53.370 --> 00:24:54.010 Speaker 1: I don't know. 00:24:54.010 -->

00:24:55.690 Speaker 1: So all his graphics are great. 00:24:55.690 --> 00:24:56.010 Speaker 1: You know? 00:24:56.010 --> 00:24:57.930 Speaker 1: He's, like, really coming out. 00:24:57.930 --> 00:25:01.695 Speaker 1: And because it shows you the power of a little social media, like, goes 00:25:01.695 --> 00:25:03.615 Speaker 1: a very, very long way. 00:25:03.615 --> 00:25:06.975 Speaker 1: And when you get the people behind you, it can go a really long 00:25:06.975 --> 00:25:07.535 Speaker 1: way. 00:25:07.535 --> 00:25:11.535 Speaker 1: So even in a very basic level, like, getting the money out of politics 00:25:11.855 --> 00:25:13.470 Speaker 1: starts 00:25:13.470 --> 00:25:14.270 Speaker 1: there. 00:25:14.270 --> 00:25:14.590 Speaker 1: Right? 00:25:14.590 --> 00:25:16.830 Speaker 1: Because if you only had to get three percent I could get three percent 00:25:16.830 --> 00:25:17.310 Speaker 1: of the people. 00:25:17.310 --> 00:25:19.950 Speaker 1: I got three percent of people in DC to vote for me one time. 00:25:19.950 --> 00:25:20.270 Speaker 0: Yeah. 00:25:20.270 --> 00:25:20.750 Speaker 0: Exactly. 00:25:20.750 --> 00:25:22.190 Speaker 0: You know what I mean? 00:25:22.190 --> 00:25:22.670 Speaker 0: You're right. 00:25:22.670 --> 00:25:26.670 Speaker 0: And when you know, okay, I here's the folks and I know how they 00:25:26.750 --> 00:25:30.645 Speaker 0: think and I know, like, what kind of voters they are than to go 00:25:30.645 --> 00:25:31.445 Speaker 0: and manipulate. 00:25:31.445 --> 00:25:31.765 Speaker 0: Alright? 00:25:31.765 --> 00:25:32.245 Speaker 0: We do. 00:25:32.245 --> 00:25:35.445 Speaker 0: We talk a lot about getting money out of politics, which is an important 00:25:35.445 --> 00:25:36.005 Speaker 0: issue. 00:25:36.005 --> 00:25:38.805 Speaker 0: It's it's not what we are hyper focused on. 00:25:38.805 --> 00:25:42.610 Speaker 0: There's some birth like I, you know, go look at groups like American Promise, 00:25:42.610 --> 00:25:46.610 Speaker 0: fantastic organization and that's their their real focus. 00:25:46.610 --> 00:25:49.570 Speaker 0: But we talk about getting money out of politics. 00:25:49.570 --> 00:25:53.570 Speaker 0: What we don't talk about is, you know, I think actually, our 00:25:53.605 --> 00:25:55.605 Speaker 0: initiative is a money in politics initiative. 00:25:55.605 --> 00:25:59.605 Speaker 0: You say, well, what about diffusing the the the, 00:25:59.685 --> 00:26:02.405 Speaker 0: right, the effectiveness of every dollar in politics. 00:26:02.405 --> 00:26:02.645 Speaker 0: Right? 00:26:02.645 --> 00:26:03.285 Speaker 1: Right. 00:26:03.285 --> 00:26:06.565 Speaker 0: When you when you say, hey, I know these are my you're saying, you 00:26:06.565 --> 00:26:08.030 Speaker 0: know, put it in economic terms. 00:26:08.030 --> 00:26:11.150 Speaker 0: I know these are the customers who are gonna buy our product. 00:26:11.150 --> 00:26:11.550 Speaker 0: Right? 00:26:11.550 --> 00:26:14.910 Speaker 0: And those are the ones I can spend money on and turn them out. 00:26:14.910 --> 00:26:15.630 Speaker 0: Right? 00:26:15.630 --> 00:26:17.870 Speaker 0: It's a lot easier to deploy your money. 00:26:17.870 --> 00:26:21.150 Speaker 0: But when you say, oh, I gotta go and I gotta convince all these 00:26:21.150 --> 00:26:23.665 Speaker 0: people that they should be customers. 00:26:23.665 --> 00:26:24.545 Speaker 1: Right. 00:26:24.545 --> 00:26:25.025 Speaker 0: Right? 00:26:25.025 --> 00:26:26.785 Speaker 0: That takes a lot more money. 00:26:26.785 --> 00:26:30.785 Speaker 0: And so you can you can effectively reduce the influence of politics 00:26:30.945 --> 00:26:33.985 Speaker 0: simply by creating competition. 00:26:33.985 --> 00:26:36.705 Speaker 1: Well and, you know, I I interviewed, Paige Loud. 00:26:36.705 --> 00:26:38.920 Speaker 1: She's running in Maine for some position. 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:41.560 Speaker 1: I can't remember what, but she tried to get, like, the list from the 00:26:41.560 --> 00:26:44.760 Speaker 1: Democratic party of, like, people to reach out to, and, like, you have to 00:26:44.760 --> 00:26:46.360 Speaker 1: pay sixty five hundred dollars for that. 00:26:46.360 --> 00:26:47.080 Speaker 1: And I'm like, woah. 00:26:47.080 --> 00:26:47.280 Speaker 1: Woah. 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:47.440 Speaker 1: Woah. 00:26:47.293 --> 00:26:47.493 Speaker 1: Woah. 00:26:47.347 --> 00:26:47.547 Speaker 1: Woah. 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:48.200 Speaker 1: Woah. 00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:49.000 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:51.560 Speaker 1: Like, the money in politics trickles all the way down. 00:26:51.560 --> 00:26:55.560 Speaker 1: So, like, before even people get to a primary, they're already having to pay 00:26:55.685 --> 00:26:58.805 Speaker 1: a bunch of money from their own party to get names of voters that 00:26:58.805 --> 00:27:01.845 Speaker 1: they can solicit to, which is just mind boggling to me. 00:27:01.845 --> 00:27:05.845 Speaker 1: Like, shouldn't the democratic party want to give that information to the democratic 00:27:06.165 --> 00:27:07.445 Speaker 1: candidates, like, running? 00:27:07.445 --> 00:27:08.280 Speaker 1: Like, nope. 00:27:08.280 --> 00:27:09.640 Speaker 1: There's money in that too. 00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:09.880 Speaker 1: Right? 00:27:09.880 --> 00:27:12.120 Speaker 1: So it's like, it's all the way 00:27:12.120 --> 00:27:12.360 Speaker 0: down. 00:27:12.360 --> 00:27:16.360 Speaker 0: What people don't understand is that it within the that political and the stuff, 00:27:16.520 --> 00:27:20.120 Speaker 0: the frustrations we have, you go and look at the industry of politics. 00:27:20.120 --> 00:27:24.120 Speaker 0: Look, I'm I'm in I'm in the industry and I'm gonna, you know, in 00:27:24.225 --> 00:27:27.025 Speaker 0: the people in the industry consider me an outsider. 00:27:27.025 --> 00:27:30.705 Speaker 0: People who are on the outside consider me an insider

because I've I've refused 00:27:30.705 --> 00:27:34.705 Speaker 0: to become a Republican or a Democratic firm and that's frankly 00:27:34.710 --> 00:27:36.150 Speaker 0: there aren't any others. 00:27:36.150 --> 00:27:36.630 Speaker 0: Right? 00:27:36.630 --> 00:27:37.030 Speaker 1: Right. 00:27:37.030 --> 00:27:41.030 Speaker 0: And you go everywhere from the data vendors to the consultants 00:27:41.990 --> 00:27:42.950 Speaker 0: to everybody else. 00:27:42.950 --> 00:27:45.110 Speaker 0: They have exclusive deals with each other. 00:27:45.110 --> 00:27:46.070 Speaker 0: They have okay. 00:27:46.070 --> 00:27:48.310 Speaker 0: You can work for us but you can't work for them. 00:27:48.310 --> 00:27:48.905 Speaker 0: Right? 00:27:48.905 --> 00:27:52.905 Speaker 0: I have been told many times by candidates that 00:27:52.985 --> 00:27:56.905 Speaker 0: said, Chad, I really want to work with you but they won't let me. 00:27:56.905 --> 00:27:58.105 Speaker 0: They won't let me. 00:27:58.105 --> 00:28:01.160 Speaker 0: And that happens all the and I, you know, I don't hold it against 00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:04.120 Speaker 0: that's what I mean it's really hard to stay out of the waltz, you 00:28:04.120 --> 00:28:07.720 Speaker 0: know, that they did this and they they're all, you know, there's different shades 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.920 Speaker 0: of, you know, people trying to make a living and working with the system 00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:12.600 Speaker 0: that exists, right? 00:28:12.600 --> 00:28:14.305 Speaker 0: And 00:28:14.305 --> 00:28:16.625 Speaker 0: we're just hyper focused on the system. 00:28:16.625 --> 00:28:16.865 Speaker 0: Right? 00:28:16.865 --> 00:28:20.865 Speaker 0: I don't consider, you know, frankly, I don't I don't blame 00:28:20.865 --> 00:28:24.865 Speaker 0: Donald Trump and I don't blame the the leaders in California for 00:28:24.945 --> 00:28:26.145 Speaker 0: opposing what we're doing. 00:28:26.145 --> 00:28:29.550 Speaker 0: They're working in a system that's how they think, you know, here's the system 00:28:29.550 --> 00:28:30.030 Speaker 0: that exists. 00:28:30.030 --> 00:28:31.790 Speaker 0: Here's how I increase my influence. 00:28:31.790 --> 00:28:32.350 Speaker 0: Okay? 00:28:32.350 --> 00:28:33.710 Speaker 1: Right. 00:28:33.710 --> 00:28:35.390 Speaker 0: So 00:28:35.390 --> 00:28:37.230 Speaker 0: can I say I disagree with them? 00:28:37.230 --> 00:28:38.190 Speaker 0: Yes. 00:28:38.190 --> 00:28:42.005 Speaker 0: But can I say I actually understand why they're doing that? 00:28:42.005 --> 00:28:46.005 Speaker 0: All I'm trying to do is is have folks that aren't vested in this 00:28:46.085 --> 00:28:49.605 Speaker 0: hyper partisan kind of vitriolic 00:28:49.605 --> 00:28:53.605 Speaker 0: part discussion to say, hey we don't have to take that position. 00:28:53.685 --> 00:28:57.685 Speaker 0: We can go and say, you know what, let's just let's just change 00:28:57.840 --> 00:29:01.840 Speaker 0: the incentives of the entire election process, and we might have those same 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:03.200 Speaker 0: special interests. 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:07.200 Speaker 0: We might end up with those same representatives, but they will act 00:29:07.280 --> 00:29:11.280 Speaker 0: fundamentally differently because we've realigned the incentives. 00:29:11.795 --> 00:29:12.195 Speaker 0: Right? 00:29:12.195 --> 00:29:16.195 Speaker 0: There's a lot more good representatives in government today 00:29:16.515 --> 00:29:20.515 Speaker 0: that might even they may even oppose what we're doing 00:29:20.755 --> 00:29:22.530 Speaker 0: publicly, 00:29:22.530 --> 00:29:26.530 Speaker 0: but they understand it and they know they can be better representatives 00:29:27.170 --> 00:29:31.170 Speaker 0: with it because there's all kinds of times representatives make decisions they 00:29:31.250 --> 00:29:35.250 Speaker 0: don't really want to make, but they worried about getting primaried. 00:29:35.295 --> 00:29:39.295 Speaker 0: They're worried about their their, you know, a special interest 00:29:39.295 --> 00:29:43.295 Speaker 0: being upset with them and knowing, you know what, that special interest controls, 00:29:43.535 --> 00:29:46.175 Speaker 0: you know, x thousand votes. 00:29:46.175 --> 00:29:49.055 Speaker 0: And if I don't vote with them, I'm out. 00:29:49.055 --> 00:29:50.240 Speaker 0: Right? 00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:54.240 Speaker 0: So that so, you know, that's that's how the game works. 00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:56.000 Speaker 1: Indeed. 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.600 Speaker 1: Well, for everybody who's listening and is feeling, like, really overwhelmed with all of 00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:00.320 Speaker 1: it, because it is. 00:30:00.320 --> 00:30:04.000 Speaker 1: It's like we're we're all paying more attention than we've ever paid before. 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:04.320 Speaker 1: Right? 00:30:04.320 --> 00:30:05.440 Speaker 1: Because we have to. 00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:06.315 Speaker 1: You know? 00:30:06.315 --> 00:30:07.275 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm fifty. 00:30:07.275 --> 00:30:10.715 Speaker 1: So and I'm from DC, so I probably paid attention more to politics than 00:30:10.715 --> 00:30:14.635 Speaker 1: most, but still did not consider myself a political person. 00:30:14.635 --> 00:30:17.915 Speaker 1: But you really you have to pay attention, but it's overwhelming. 00:30:17.915 --> 00:30:19.675 Speaker 1: And a lot of it doesn't make sense. 00:30:19.675 --> 00:30:19.915 Speaker 1: Right? 00:30:19.915 --> 00:30:23.915 Speaker 1: A lot of people are learning about basic government first time, myself 00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:25.434 Speaker 1: included in a lot of ways. 00:30:25.434 --> 00:30:25.634 Speaker 1: Right? 00:30:25.571 --> 00:30:26.640 Speaker 1: Like, I I left home at seventeen. 00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:28.280 Speaker 1: I didn't go to college. 00:30:28.280 --> 00:30:32.280 Speaker 1: Like, I'm I'm I'm, you know, I'm a very, intelligent and

experienced woman, 00:30:32.280 --> 00:30:33.400 Speaker 1: but I am not a book smart. 00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:33.880 Speaker 1: Right? 00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:35.560 Speaker 1: I actively did not pay attention. 00:30:35.560 --> 00:30:39.055 Speaker 1: And so a lot and I think that represents a lot of Americans, right, 00:30:39.055 --> 00:30:42.815 Speaker 1: who have no idea how elections work, how parties work, how primaries work. 00:30:42.815 --> 00:30:46.415 Speaker 1: They really they're really kind of, like, being overwhelmed by it right now. 00:30:46.415 --> 00:30:49.455 Speaker 1: So why should they care about election reform? 00:30:49.455 --> 00:30:52.095 Speaker 1: Because from where I'm seeing, it's like the core of everything. 00:30:52.095 --> 00:30:56.095 Speaker 1: Like, you turn that that knob and then it changes the whole trajectory 00:30:56.410 --> 00:30:57.130 Speaker 1: of everything else. 00:30:57.130 --> 00:30:58.730 Speaker 1: It's to me, it's like the first domino. 00:30:58.730 --> 00:30:59.050 Speaker 1: Right? 00:30:59.050 --> 00:31:00.650 Speaker 1: And the things that'll happen next. 00:31:00.650 --> 00:31:03.690 Speaker 1: We start with the election reform and then it gets to the bigger stuff 00:31:03.690 --> 00:31:04.810 Speaker 1: because it has to. 00:31:04.810 --> 00:31:05.370 Speaker 1: Right? 00:31:05.370 --> 00:31:09.370 Speaker 1: So why why from your opinion, why should people care? 00:31:09.745 --> 00:31:13.745 Speaker 0: Because for the re the same reason it's so difficult, right, 00:31:14.065 --> 00:31:18.065 Speaker 0: is that you can say I don't like that political stuff. 00:31:18.065 --> 00:31:19.105 Speaker 0: It's all nonsense. 00:31:19.105 --> 00:31:20.225 Speaker 0: It's all that stuff. 00:31:20.225 --> 00:31:20.625 Speaker 0: Right? 00:31:20.625 --> 00:31:24.625 Speaker 0: And the moment you disengage and don't do anything, 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.200 Speaker 0: that just then they benefit. 00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:28.480 Speaker 0: That's what they want, right? 00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:30.800 Speaker 0: Because then you have less people you need to convince. 00:31:30.800 --> 00:31:31.920 Speaker 0: Great, they don't vote. 00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:33.600 Speaker 0: Okay? 00:31:33.600 --> 00:31:37.025 Speaker 0: The only way to say, you know what? 00:31:37.025 --> 00:31:41.025 Speaker 0: I trust my representatives again that are representing me 00:31:41.505 --> 00:31:45.505 Speaker 0: is to go at the core of the problem and force them to represent 00:31:45.505 --> 00:31:45.825 Speaker 0: you. 00:31:45.825 --> 00:31:49.825 Speaker 0: Because right now they've devised a system that that literally is designed 00:31:49.905 --> 00:31:53.610 Speaker 0: not to represent you And that's part of the system. 00:31:53.610 --> 00:31:56.970 Speaker 0: And if you play I always show and I take it back and here's 00:31:56.970 --> 00:31:57.690 Speaker 0: an analogy. 00:31:57.690 --> 00:32:01.530 Speaker 0: If you say, you know, they're like the Republican Democratic parties are like mom 00:32:01.530 --> 00:32:05.530 Speaker 0: and dad right now and they say, hey kids, you can have whatever 00:32:05.930 --> 00:32:09.930 Speaker 0: you want for dinner as long as it's from Burger King or McDonald's. 00:32:10.745 --> 00:32:11.545 Speaker 0: Right? 00:32:11.545 --> 00:32:14.265 Speaker 0: And some kids will just, you know, throw up their arms and say, oh, 00:32:14.265 --> 00:32:16.585 Speaker 0: hello, and say, well, you're not gonna eat. 00:32:16.585 --> 00:32:20.265 Speaker 0: And then we, you know, both parties right now today are saying, oh, everybody 00:32:20.265 --> 00:32:20.825 Speaker 0: has choice. 00:32:20.825 --> 00:32:21.710 Speaker 0: We have democracy. 00:32:21.710 --> 00:32:24.590 Speaker 0: We have the freedom to choose whatever we want. 00:32:24.590 --> 00:32:28.350 Speaker 0: Except we're only gonna put Burger King and McDonald's on the ballot. 00:32:28.350 --> 00:32:29.310 Speaker 0: Right? 00:32:29.310 --> 00:32:32.830 Speaker 0: So you say, Look, if you wanna eat somewhere else, you gotta get involved 00:32:32.830 --> 00:32:35.055 Speaker 0: in election reform. 00:32:35.055 --> 00:32:38.335 Speaker 0: And the good news is there's a lot more people waking up to it. 00:32:38.335 --> 00:32:42.335 Speaker 0: There's a lot more people willing to say, what they really believe 00:32:42.415 --> 00:32:46.415 Speaker 0: and believe it or not, there's there's legislators in the California legislature 00:32:46.815 --> 00:32:49.290 Speaker 0: right now that we've met with that has said, yep. 00:32:49.290 --> 00:32:52.490 Speaker 0: I will carry the bill, and I'm ready to do this, and I will 00:32:52.490 --> 00:32:55.210 Speaker 0: take the bullets. 00:32:55.210 --> 00:32:59.210 Speaker 1: If there was one one thing that like, one structural you change 00:32:59.290 --> 00:33:03.210 Speaker 1: that you can make about how we run elections in this country, what what 00:33:03.210 --> 00:33:04.755 Speaker 1: would it be? 00:33:04.755 --> 00:33:07.955 Speaker 0: Eliminate closed primaries, period. 00:33:07.955 --> 00:33:11.955 Speaker 1: I love a I love a simple, clear response. 00:33:11.955 --> 00:33:13.715 Speaker 1: Eliminate closed primaries. 00:33:13.715 --> 00:33:17.715 Speaker 0: It's a it's a it's a clear monopoly where we've handed over the 00:33:18.270 --> 00:33:22.270 Speaker 0: most important stage of the election process to two private organizations. 00:33:22.910 --> 00:33:25.790 Speaker 0: Political parties are not public organizations. 00:33:25.790 --> 00:33:26.030 Speaker 0: Right? 00:33:26.030 --> 00:33:29.630 Speaker 0: They they they argue they have this quasi public status and stuff and their 00:33:29.630 --> 00:33:31.055 Speaker 0: attorneys are very good. 00:33:31.055 --> 00:33:31.295 Speaker 0: Okay? 00:33:31.295 --> 00:33:34.815 Speaker 0: And I'm actually believe it or not, I'm not anti party. 00:33:34.815 --> 00:33:38.335 Speaker 0: I

actually think our reforms will strengthen the party. 00:33:38.335 --> 00:33:42.335 Speaker 0: That the parties are really weak and divided and having all this stuff because 00:33:42.975 --> 00:33:44.415 Speaker 0: because they're not in set right? 00:33:44.415 --> 00:33:48.415 Speaker 0: They're they're they're very focused on protecting leadership and 00:33:49.260 --> 00:33:53.100 Speaker 0: you know people who want to control the outcome rather than trying to find 00:33:53.100 --> 00:33:55.580 Speaker 0: a competition of ideas, right? 00:33:55.580 --> 00:33:59.580 Speaker 0: So close primaries I think are are definitely at the 00:33:59.725 --> 00:34:03.725 Speaker 0: core of the partisanship because that's the source of control. 00:34:03.805 --> 00:34:07.805 Speaker 0: And as long as most states on a national level engage in 00:34:08.205 --> 00:34:12.205 Speaker 0: primaries that serve these private parties and not the voters, 00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:17.800 Speaker 0: then they're gonna be the ones that determine what are the issues, what are 00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:21.480 Speaker 0: the things that we're gonna rile people up against, what are the things that 00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:25.480 Speaker 0: we're gonna go and spend that special interest money to turn people out on, 00:34:26.145 --> 00:34:30.145 Speaker 0: And everybody else who has ideas or different ways of doing 00:34:30.385 --> 00:34:34.385 Speaker 0: things that doesn't fit within those binary boxes just get 00:34:34.465 --> 00:34:36.145 Speaker 0: sidelined. 00:34:36.145 --> 00:34:38.945 Speaker 1: You know, when you said something about the people that don't vote and just, 00:34:38.945 --> 00:34:42.140 Speaker 1: like, get disengaged and how it's like, a win for them, and it reminded 00:34:42.140 --> 00:34:45.500 Speaker 1: me, like, as a business owner about, like, subscription based income. 00:34:45.500 --> 00:34:49.260 Speaker 1: And you see this all like, this is where everybody's dealing this with in 00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:49.740 Speaker 1: your life. 00:34:49.740 --> 00:34:50.060 Speaker 1: Right? 00:34:50.060 --> 00:34:53.900 Speaker 1: But as a business owner, you want the people that sign up and never 00:34:53.900 --> 00:34:54.220 Speaker 1: use it. 00:34:54.220 --> 00:34:58.220 Speaker 1: It's like the gym membership, and they never cancel because it fattens your bank 00:34:58.405 --> 00:35:00.085 Speaker 1: account, and you don't have to give them anything. 00:35:00.085 --> 00:35:03.365 Speaker 1: And you kinda want those people, and, like, right in there is how the 00:35:03.365 --> 00:35:05.285 Speaker 1: whole thing is intrinsically flawed. 00:35:05.285 --> 00:35:05.525 Speaker 1: Right? 00:35:05.525 --> 00:35:08.725 Speaker 1: Because that's not how that's not how any of this should work, and this 00:35:08.725 --> 00:35:09.765 Speaker 1: is it's the same thing. 00:35:09.765 --> 00:35:13.140 Speaker 1: It's like when we don't vote, when we don't get involved, not only

are 00:35:13.140 --> 00:35:16.660 Speaker 1: we not putting our voice in, but we're strengthening 00:35:16.660 --> 00:35:17.540 Speaker 1: the opposition. 00:35:17.540 --> 00:35:18.260 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:21.940 Speaker 1: Now I'm the greedy business owner getting twenty nine dollars a year you know, 00:35:21.940 --> 00:35:25.940 Speaker 1: twenty nine dollars from you every month and not giving you nothing in return, 00:35:26.645 --> 00:35:27.685 Speaker 1: I'm getting richer. 00:35:27.685 --> 00:35:28.965 Speaker 1: I'm getting bigger. 00:35:28.965 --> 00:35:32.965 Speaker 1: I'm being more successful, and you're losing money twenty nine bucks 00:35:32.965 --> 00:35:35.285 Speaker 1: a month, and you have you've gained nothing. 00:35:35.285 --> 00:35:39.285 Speaker 1: And so it's a lot it's a big analogy for politics and kinda where 00:35:39.445 --> 00:35:40.380 Speaker 1: we're at right now. 00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:43.740 Speaker 1: Like, the you know, I have a lot of friends that didn't vote because 00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:47.020 Speaker 1: they just said, well, you know, the elections you know, who's president never changed 00:35:47.020 --> 00:35:50.460 Speaker 1: anything in my life, and now their businesses are crumbling and their business plans 00:35:50.460 --> 00:35:51.980 Speaker 1: and their investors have fallen out. 00:35:51.980 --> 00:35:53.335 Speaker 1: I'm like, 00:35:53.335 --> 00:35:55.495 Speaker 0: well Yep. 00:35:55.495 --> 00:35:57.655 Speaker 0: And that but I also say, okay. 00:35:57.655 --> 00:36:00.375 Speaker 0: We do focus a lot on president. 00:36:00.375 --> 00:36:04.135 Speaker 0: I mean, it does it still does start local and it's hard because the 00:36:04.135 --> 00:36:08.135 Speaker 0: national influence and the national debate has become 00:36:08.250 --> 00:36:11.930 Speaker 0: so strong that it's hard to even have a local discussion. 00:36:11.930 --> 00:36:15.930 Speaker 0: But getting involved, being effective at the local level 00:36:15.930 --> 00:36:18.730 Speaker 0: is still the most powerful thing you do because believe it or not, it 00:36:18.730 --> 00:36:20.645 Speaker 0: does actually matriculate up. 00:36:20.645 --> 00:36:23.285 Speaker 0: And you can find those people who are willing to stick their neck out. 00:36:23.285 --> 00:36:25.845 Speaker 0: And, you know, some of them will get in the office and then they'll 00:36:25.845 --> 00:36:28.485 Speaker 0: go and they'll they'll go start playing the game or whatever. 00:36:28.485 --> 00:36:31.205 Speaker 0: But, you know, that that is what it is. 00:36:31.205 --> 00:36:34.830 Speaker 0: But you can start by getting involved and understand The people at the local 00:36:34.830 --> 00:36:38.830 Speaker 0: level make decisions that are gonna affect your daily life way more than any 00:36:38.830 --> 00:36:39.630 Speaker 0: president will. 00:36:39.630 --> 00:36:40.510 Speaker 0: Yeah. 00:36:40.510 --> 00:36:41.870 Speaker 1:

Don't don't be a Fetterman. 00:36:41.870 --> 00:36:42.070 Speaker 1: Right? 00:36:42.030 --> 00:36:43.150 Speaker 1: That should be a verb. 00:36:43.150 --> 00:36:46.625 Speaker 1: Like, don't don't don't get Fetterman, do you know? 00:36:46.625 --> 00:36:49.505 Speaker 1: Well, that's a great point because I don't I think peep more and more 00:36:49.505 --> 00:36:52.305 Speaker 1: people are realizing, like, the sheriff is elected. 00:36:52.305 --> 00:36:53.025 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 00:36:53.025 --> 00:36:54.385 Speaker 1: These people are elected. 00:36:54.385 --> 00:36:58.225 Speaker 1: They're not, like, hired, and so you can control what's happening. 00:36:58.225 --> 00:37:01.530 Speaker 1: You can have a better handle on it by getting involved locally. 00:37:01.530 --> 00:37:05.530 Speaker 1: And I think for people that aren't, politically inclined, like, are you a good 00:37:05.530 --> 00:37:06.330 Speaker 1: graphic designer? 00:37:06.330 --> 00:37:07.450 Speaker 1: Are you good at building websites? 00:37:07.450 --> 00:37:11.290 Speaker 1: Like, everybody's got a skill, man, that you could you could contribute to whoever 00:37:11.290 --> 00:37:14.170 Speaker 1: it is that you believe in, and boy would they be grateful. 00:37:14.170 --> 00:37:18.015 Speaker 1: Because especially in the smaller elections, a lot of time like the woman I 00:37:18.015 --> 00:37:21.375 Speaker 1: mentioned, Paige Loud, she's a, you know, social worker. 00:37:21.375 --> 00:37:22.095 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 00:37:22.095 --> 00:37:24.495 Speaker 1: But she's grown up there, and she's lived in poverty. 00:37:24.495 --> 00:37:25.215 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 00:37:25.215 --> 00:37:28.975 Speaker 1: So she's like, she she speaks for the people, but it's not easy for 00:37:28.975 --> 00:37:32.175 Speaker 1: a social worker to quit her very low paying job to go run for 00:37:32.175 --> 00:37:32.580 Speaker 1: office. 00:37:32.580 --> 00:37:36.020 Speaker 1: And so people who are really stepping up really need that help. 00:37:36.020 --> 00:37:40.020 Speaker 1: And she's one of thousands and thousands and thousands of people across the 00:37:40.020 --> 00:37:40.420 Speaker 1: country. 00:37:40.420 --> 00:37:40.660 Speaker 1: Right? 00:37:40.660 --> 00:37:42.580 Speaker 1: She's not unique in that, 00:37:42.580 --> 00:37:45.860 Speaker 0: I mean, all the people all the time, you know, they're actually people that'll 00:37:45.860 --> 00:37:49.860 Speaker 0: come to me, right, because they're they're doctors or they're attorneys or 00:37:49.885 --> 00:37:53.885 Speaker 0: they're actually, they have very well, you know, they have well established careers and 00:37:53.885 --> 00:37:57.245 Speaker 0: stuff and they go and say I don't like this, I'm just gonna run 00:37:57.245 --> 00:38:01.245 Speaker 0: myself and then they, I get calls going I had no idea. 00:38:01.805 --> 00:38:05.805 Speaker 0: Like they don't care about any of having good ideas in 00:38:05.830 --> 00:38:06.950 Speaker 0: my qualifications. 00:38:06.950 --> 00:38:09.590 Speaker 0: I get I'm not allowed I won't get the voter list. 00:38:09.590 --> 00:38:10.790 Speaker 0: They won't give me the voter list. 00:38:10.790 --> 00:38:11.830 Speaker 0: They won't build a website. 00:38:11.830 --> 00:38:15.830 Speaker 0: They won't do anything because I haven't been a part of their party. 00:38:15.995 --> 00:38:18.955 Speaker 0: Know, I haven't been going to their party events for the last ten years, 00:38:18.955 --> 00:38:20.555 Speaker 0: and I haven't right? 00:38:20.555 --> 00:38:24.555 Speaker 0: And I go, well, welcome to politics. 00:38:25.115 --> 00:38:25.995 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:38:25.995 --> 00:38:27.995 Speaker 1: Here's a sport jacket. 00:38:27.995 --> 00:38:28.720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:38:28.720 --> 00:38:30.480 Speaker 1: I mean, well, that's what it is. 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:34.320 Speaker 1: Well, I do I am I am hopeful that there's, like, a a bubbling 00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:35.040 Speaker 1: up right now. 00:38:35.040 --> 00:38:35.360 Speaker 1: Right? 00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:35.600 Speaker 1: You know? 00:38:35.600 --> 00:38:38.080 Speaker 1: And there's definitely, like, a blue wave, and that's cool and all. 00:38:38.080 --> 00:38:41.120 Speaker 1: But I think it's a progressive wave is kinda what we need, to be 00:38:41.120 --> 00:38:45.120 Speaker 1: honest, and more people allowed to think independently and vote that 00:38:45.195 --> 00:38:45.435 Speaker 1: way. 00:38:45.435 --> 00:38:48.715 Speaker 1: And, I I think this has been a really great conversation. 00:38:48.715 --> 00:38:50.395 Speaker 1: I appreciate the information. 00:38:50.395 --> 00:38:51.835 Speaker 0: I appreciate full disclosure. 00:38:51.835 --> 00:38:54.795 Speaker 0: You know, I don't see it as a red wave or a or a 00:38:54.795 --> 00:38:57.035 Speaker 0: blue wave or a or a progressive wave. 00:38:57.035 --> 00:39:01.035 Speaker 0: I believe that this is truly non ideological, and I actually think there's there's 00:39:01.490 --> 00:39:05.490 Speaker 0: I I bet you that at the core of a lot of people 00:39:05.490 --> 00:39:09.410 Speaker 0: who are consider themselves MAGA and the core of a lot of people who 00:39:09.410 --> 00:39:12.025 Speaker 0: considers themselves progressive 00:39:12.025 --> 00:39:13.625 Speaker 0: are the same frustrations. 00:39:13.625 --> 00:39:13.945 Speaker 0: Right? 00:39:13.945 --> 00:39:17.945 Speaker 0: But they just get on different they've they've they've decided that this is the 00:39:18.105 --> 00:39:22.105 Speaker 0: this is the the the the movement that's going to best, 00:39:22.105 --> 00:39:23.785 Speaker 0: you know, catalyze, you know, my thing. 00:39:23.785 --> 00:39:27.785 Speaker 0: And, you know, I think but the change really only occurs 00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:31.900 Speaker 0: when we come together and say, look, I actually am 00:39:31.980 --> 00:39:35.980 Speaker 0: as frustrated with

you about things in my own party that 00:39:36.140 --> 00:39:37.660 Speaker 0: I can't change. 00:39:37.660 --> 00:39:41.020 Speaker 0: And the reason we can't change them is because we haven't realized we have 00:39:41.020 --> 00:39:44.435 Speaker 0: more in common together than we do with the leadership of both of our 00:39:44.435 --> 00:39:48.435 Speaker 0: parties who are just trying to rearrange deck chairs so that, they stay in 00:39:48.515 --> 00:39:49.555 Speaker 0: control. 00:39:49.555 --> 00:39:52.515 Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's interesting you say that because I I've said that to 00:39:52.515 --> 00:39:55.160 Speaker 1: my dad numerous times and I've said that for years. 00:39:55.160 --> 00:39:57.800 Speaker 1: And I think if you really sat people down and put core issues, we'd 00:39:57.800 --> 00:39:58.680 Speaker 1: probably agree. 00:39:58.680 --> 00:40:00.040 Speaker 1: But I will push back. 00:40:00.040 --> 00:40:02.280 Speaker 1: I don't think MAGA is the same as anybody. 00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:03.480 Speaker 1: I think there's Republicans. 00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:06.040 Speaker 1: I think there's conservatives, and then I think there's MAGA. 00:40:06.040 --> 00:40:10.040 Speaker 1: And I think, that, like, I could I would never align any belief 00:40:10.225 --> 00:40:14.145 Speaker 1: system with MAGA because I feel that those people are, 00:40:14.145 --> 00:40:17.025 Speaker 1: a fringe of you know what I mean? 00:40:17.025 --> 00:40:19.025 Speaker 1: Like, 00:40:19.025 --> 00:40:21.585 Speaker 1: a fringe of absolute trash, to be honest. 00:40:21.585 --> 00:40:25.585 Speaker 1: Like, I can't really get down with people who are screaming for hurting other 00:40:25.720 --> 00:40:29.720 Speaker 1: people, and it's, you know, that but I don't think that all Republicans and 00:40:29.720 --> 00:40:31.320 Speaker 1: all conservatives are MAGA either. 00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:32.760 Speaker 1: I can distinguish the two. 00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:35.880 Speaker 1: But I I would say that most Americans, when you when you get out 00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:37.000 Speaker 1: of the pendulum swing. 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:37.200 Speaker 1: Right? 00:40:37.160 --> 00:40:40.975 Speaker 1: Because, you know, there's a pendulum swing in both directions, I think, far more 00:40:40.975 --> 00:40:43.935 Speaker 1: to the right than the left or whatever that we can argue about that 00:40:43.935 --> 00:40:44.735 Speaker 1: another time. 00:40:44.735 --> 00:40:47.615 Speaker 1: But I think in the middle is where most Americans and I think that 00:40:47.615 --> 00:40:50.415 Speaker 1: if you really sat us down on core issues, we feel the same, but 00:40:50.415 --> 00:40:54.415 Speaker 1: we've been highly manipulated by a lot of messaging, by these closed 00:40:54.520 --> 00:40:57.000 Speaker 1: primaries, by money and right? 00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.880 Speaker 1: There's a lot of things, but I think really as a core, we all 00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:01.160

Speaker 1: want the same thing. 00:41:01.160 --> 00:41:03.800 Speaker 1: It's just different messaging and manipulation. 00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:05.545 Speaker 1: So, 00:41:05.545 --> 00:41:09.545 Speaker 1: you know, getting rid of closed primary seems like a great, place to start. 00:41:09.785 --> 00:41:11.625 Speaker 1: You know, let's let's have a full deck. 00:41:11.625 --> 00:41:14.505 Speaker 1: Let's get the whole deck, not just what the dealer wants to give us. 00:41:14.505 --> 00:41:14.825 Speaker 1: Right? 00:41:14.825 --> 00:41:18.410 Speaker 0: Just have some competition of ideas. 00:41:18.410 --> 00:41:22.410 Speaker 1: So before we head out, Chad, what is the one final, 00:41:22.410 --> 00:41:26.410 Speaker 1: message that you would like to share with our listeners today? 00:41:27.050 --> 00:41:30.330 Speaker 0: Is that, you know, one thing you can learn more, you can look around, 00:41:30.330 --> 00:41:31.825 Speaker 0: you may have a group in your state. 00:41:31.825 --> 00:41:34.865 Speaker 0: I mean, there's groups in Iowa that are pushing for open primaries. 00:41:34.865 --> 00:41:37.585 Speaker 0: There's groups in Florida, South Dakota, everywhere you go. 00:41:37.585 --> 00:41:39.265 Speaker 0: If you wanna get involved, join them. 00:41:39.265 --> 00:41:43.265 Speaker 0: If you wanna learn more, we have a news website, ivn dot us. 00:41:43.585 --> 00:41:46.500 Speaker 0: And, you know, I think to the best of my knowledge we're the only 00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:50.500 Speaker 0: one covering these types of election reform issues which are 00:41:50.500 --> 00:41:53.060 Speaker 0: becoming less wonky because more people are paying attention. 00:41:53.060 --> 00:41:53.540 Speaker 0: Exactly. 00:41:53.540 --> 00:41:57.540 Speaker 0: Don't underestimate the what is what a simple 00:41:57.545 --> 00:42:01.545 Speaker 0: phone call to or email or however you feel most comfortable to a 00:42:01.545 --> 00:42:05.545 Speaker 0: representative of being polite and saying, you know, and understanding 00:42:06.025 --> 00:42:08.185 Speaker 0: don't get upset with the folks in the system. 00:42:08.185 --> 00:42:10.260 Speaker 0: Focus on the system you're trying to change. 00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:10.740 Speaker 0: Just say, hey. 00:42:10.740 --> 00:42:14.100 Speaker 0: I just wanted you to know that I thought open primaries is a is 00:42:14.100 --> 00:42:16.900 Speaker 0: a is a really good idea, and there's a lot of us out here 00:42:16.900 --> 00:42:19.220 Speaker 0: that you might not hear from regularly. 00:42:19.220 --> 00:42:23.220 Speaker 0: That can go a long way because these people hear from the same tribal 00:42:23.460 --> 00:42:27.460 Speaker 0: groups over and over again, and they have leadership, but they don't hear from 00:42:27.635 --> 00:42:28.355 Speaker 0: you. 00:42:28.355 --> 00:42:32.115 Speaker 0: In a simple phone call, staying polite, just say that's all I wanted to 00:42:32.115 --> 00:42:35.955 Speaker 0: let you know, and is can go a really long way. 00:42:35.955 --> 00:42:37.315 Speaker 1: Well, that's a good reminder. 00:42:37.315 --> 00:42:40.880 Speaker 1: I'm a DC girl, and I if I call Eleanor Holmes Norton one more 00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:44.480 Speaker 1: time, they're probably gonna have me arrested because you can only call that office 00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:45.440 Speaker 1: so many times. 00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:49.440 Speaker 1: But I think it's a good reminder that it does go a long way. 00:42:49.520 --> 00:42:52.960 Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like it when you're making those phone calls, I'll admit, because 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.395 Speaker 1: a lot of times they just, 00:42:55.395 --> 00:42:58.195 Speaker 1: you know, don't answer the phone or you know what I mean? 00:42:58.195 --> 00:43:02.195 Speaker 1: They're but it is a good reminder to do something. 00:43:02.515 --> 00:43:03.955 Speaker 1: So thank you for your time, Chad. 00:43:03.955 --> 00:43:04.995 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. 00:43:04.995 --> 00:43:08.995 Speaker 1: I this I learned a lot today about, primaries and elections 00:43:09.250 --> 00:43:12.930 Speaker 1: and everything else, and I appreciate, you know, I've always been a bit of 00:43:12.930 --> 00:43:16.930 Speaker 1: a rebel, so I always appreciate the outlier opinion on things, you know, as 00:43:16.930 --> 00:43:18.770 Speaker 1: long as it's respectful and you're not trying to 00:43:18.770 --> 00:43:21.235 Speaker 0: Well, we're not actually outliers for everything. 00:43:21.235 --> 00:43:21.435 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:43:21.395 --> 00:43:24.595 Speaker 1: Well, you know, well, and I think more Americans are interested in, like, well, 00:43:24.595 --> 00:43:26.355 Speaker 1: there's gotta be other options. 00:43:26.355 --> 00:43:26.835 Speaker 1: Right? 00:43:26.835 --> 00:43:28.275 Speaker 1: And I mean, even like Bernie. 00:43:28.275 --> 00:43:28.515 Speaker 1: Right? 00:43:28.515 --> 00:43:30.675 Speaker 1: Like, a lot of people are like, why didn't we get to vote for 00:43:30.675 --> 00:43:30.915 Speaker 1: Bernie? 00:43:30.915 --> 00:43:33.155 Speaker 1: And so I think a lot of people are just waking up like, well, 00:43:33.155 --> 00:43:34.595 Speaker 1: how come we don't get the decisions? 00:43:34.595 --> 00:43:37.400 Speaker 1: How come we're not how does this even work? 00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:37.600 Speaker 1: Right? 00:43:37.560 --> 00:43:40.760 Speaker 1: Because the system is designed to make sure that we don't know. 00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:41.880 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:45.720 Speaker 0: Bernie won delegates in Virginia when he ran, and what did the party the 00:43:45.720 --> 00:43:47.640 Speaker 0: party gave them to Hillary Clinton? 00:43:47.640 --> 00:43:49.320 Speaker 0: And then so Bernie sued. 00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:53.225 Speaker 0: And the parties went into the Virginia court, and what did they say? 00:43:53.225 --> 00:43:54.665 Speaker 0: We're a private

organization. 00:43:54.665 --> 00:43:58.505 Speaker 0: We can change our rules and change who gets our delegates anytime we want. 00:43:58.505 --> 00:44:00.425 Speaker 0: That's literally what happened. 00:44:00.425 --> 00:44:00.665 Speaker 0: Right? 00:44:00.665 --> 00:44:03.705 Speaker 1: And and I think that was a big fracture in the Democratic party because 00:44:03.705 --> 00:44:04.740 Speaker 1: we wanted Bernie. 00:44:04.740 --> 00:44:05.380 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 00:44:05.380 --> 00:44:07.700 Speaker 1: And it still pisses people off because he shows up. 00:44:07.700 --> 00:44:09.300 Speaker 1: He's like the smartest guy in the room. 00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:12.020 Speaker 1: And we're like, we coulda had him. 00:44:12.020 --> 00:44:12.580 Speaker 1: You know? 00:44:12.580 --> 00:44:13.780 Speaker 1: We coulda had him. 00:44:13.780 --> 00:44:16.500 Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm the biggest Bernie fan, but it just feels like a 00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:20.020 Speaker 1: really good example of like, well, wait wait wait wait wait hold on. 00:44:20.020 --> 00:44:20.865 Speaker 1: Who? 00:44:20.865 --> 00:44:22.145 Speaker 1: How does this thing work? 00:44:22.145 --> 00:44:22.865 Speaker 1: You know? 00:44:22.865 --> 00:44:23.825 Speaker 1: What's going on here? 00:44:23.825 --> 00:44:26.705 Speaker 1: So, thank you again, Chad, for your time. 00:44:26.705 --> 00:44:28.865 Speaker 1: I I really enjoyed, chatting with you. 00:44:28.865 --> 00:44:32.785 Speaker 1: And, you know, on that note, if you have, you know, colleagues or peers 00:44:32.785 --> 00:44:35.800 Speaker 1: in different groups that are doing good work, please send them my way, and 00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:36.840 Speaker 1: I'll have them on the podcast. 00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:40.280 Speaker 1: Because I think the more that people learn, the better we can go out 00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:44.120 Speaker 1: and make better decisions and help people and turn this ship around because we're 00:44:44.120 --> 00:44:45.560 Speaker 1: certainly gonna need it. 00:44:45.560 --> 00:44:47.885 Speaker 1: So, so thank you for your time. 00:44:47.885 --> 00:44:48.085 Speaker 0: Yeah. 00:44:48.045 --> 00:44:49.085 Speaker 0: Thanks for having me. 00:44:49.085 --> 00:44:49.805 Speaker 0: This is great. 00:44:49.805 --> 00:44:50.685 Speaker 0: Appreciate it. 00:44:50.685 --> 00:44:51.005 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:44:51.005 --> 00:44:53.405 Speaker 1: Well, thank you for tuning in to What Do We Do Next. 00:44:53.405 --> 00:44:54.445 Speaker 1: We appreciate your time. 00:44:54.445 --> 00:44:55.645 Speaker 1: I hope you learned something today. 00:44:55.645 --> 00:44:56.845 Speaker 1: I definitely did. 00:44:56.845 --> 00:44:59.085 Speaker 1: Please follow Chad and the work he's doing. 00:44:59.085 --> 00:45:03.085 Speaker 1: Check out closed primaries, and please consider sharing this content, 00:45:03.330 --> 00:45:04.770 Speaker 1: subscribing to the Substack. 00:45:04.770 --> 00:45:08.770 Speaker 1: Every dollar we get from memberships goes towards paid advertising to get 00:45:08.850 --> 00:45:11.010 Speaker 1: the podcast in front of more people. 00:45:11.010 --> 00:45:15.010 Speaker 1: We actually celebrated thirty eight thousand downloads this week, so that's pretty exciting. 00:45:15.265 --> 00:45:15.745 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:45:15.745 --> 00:45:16.705 Speaker 1: Which is hard to do. 00:45:16.705 --> 00:45:17.185 Speaker 1: I yeah. 00:45:17.185 --> 00:45:19.825 Speaker 1: I know because I produce podcasts for a living, and it is not easy 00:45:19.825 --> 00:45:21.025 Speaker 1: to get people to listen to you. 00:45:21.025 --> 00:45:23.753 Speaker 1: So thank you for listening to us. 00:45:23.753 --> 00:45:26.794 Speaker 1: And, until next time, please be excellent to each other. 00:45:26.794 --> 00:45:28.794 Speaker 1: Thank you.